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Pseudo Events - Trivia

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  • etznab18
    Sharing this because I just now found out about it. (1) Search for the word God in Boorstin s 1961 book, The Image. http://tinyurl.com/as88ksd (2) Note the
    Message 1 of 7 , Jan 19, 2013
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      Sharing this because I just now found out about it.

      (1) Search for the word God in Boorstin's 1961 book, The Image.

      http://tinyurl.com/as88ksd

      (2) Note the words "The Laws of Nature and of Nature's God" on p. 182.

      (3) Compare p. 11 in Boorstin's book with p. 75 (last paragraph) of Twitchell's Letters to Gail III.

      http://www.scribd.com/doc/19980986/Letters-To-Gail-3

      Example: Keywords "intriguing feature" and

      "There remains a tantalizing difference between man-made and God-made events."

      - A sentence that appears in both books, by Boorstin (1961) and Twitchell (1964 letter & 1990 book.)

      ***

      Evidently, Paul Twitchell (in 1964) quoted some of Boorstin's book when he wrote his letter to Gail on February 29th, 1964. But how many people, before now, knew that Boorstin also (earlier) wrote the same sentence?

      "There remains a tantalizing difference between man-made and God-made events."

      https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups&hl=en#!topic/alt.religion.eckankar/TyAy_z3eMPQ

      ***

      There are other sentences exact between the two authors.

      I like having found this because I can now compare the two sources and learn how each author described the subject. Also can learn if Paul Twitchell reworded in any places another author's copyrighted work.
    • prometheus_973
      Hello Etznab and All, Yes, Twit s plagiarisms are apparent to us and Klemp recognized it by admitting that PT needed to get ECKankar off the ground quickly
      Message 2 of 7 , Jan 21, 2013
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        Hello Etznab and All,
        Yes, Twit's plagiarisms
        are apparent to us and
        Klemp recognized it by
        admitting that PT needed
        to get ECKankar off the
        ground quickly and, thus,
        used other people's
        research to do so... by
        hook or crook.

        The end justifies the
        means (PT's lies) according
        to Klemp. EKists have
        accepted this and will
        overlook or rationalize
        this because they see
        the modern creation of
        ECKankar as the greater
        good. But, Negativity (lies)
        cannot bring forth Truth.

        The thing is, a person
        is supposed to cite their
        sources and put copied
        text inside of quotation
        marks. That's why they
        are called "quotation
        marks."

        If one doesn't use quotes
        or cite sources the reader
        is mislead into thinking
        that these are the actual
        words and ideas of the
        author/writer.

        Thus, Twitchell and,
        now, Klemp became
        false prophets via their
        own efforts and amoral
        behaviors. Klemp is the
        biggest hypocrite in EK
        and is the last one to
        ever criticize an H.I.'s
        behavior!

        As far a "God" goes; it
        is interesting to look
        at the oldest religions
        that are still around.

        Twitchell, it's obvious,
        took a little something
        from all religions, but
        not necessarily the "best"
        from them as the story
        goes.

        Besides, most of these
        religious beliefs are flawed
        to begin with. That's one
        reason for the various
        denominations. Thought,
        perception and perspective
        from groups of believers
        dictated belief and experiences.
        And, this has usually led
        to change and has, in some
        cases, evolved over time
        (not always in a good way)
        while the fundamentalists
        have regressed into the
        literal beliefs of the lies,
        fabricated stories, myth,
        and exaggerations coming
        from known, unknown or
        unsubstantiated "original"
        sources pior to "prophetic"
        revisions.

        "Inspired" Scripture is
        always seen as coming
        from God, although, there
        are many degrees of
        perception. Truth cannot
        be easily validated, but
        religions by-pass any
        of the rational requirements.
        Religion is the easy way
        to accept God's existence
        and that's why they've
        made it difficult to follow
        with endless dogma, rules,
        and laws.

        Perhaps, The Real, individual
        path, is via deconstruction.

        All ancient and new religions,
        over time, have seen much
        of their scripture changed
        by inclusions or exclusions
        by councils or prophets and
        other "experts" or theologians
        and scribes influenced by
        sex, ego, power, basic greed,
        money and politics.

        Hinduism is the oldest
        religion, next come:
        Judaism; Zoroastrianism;
        Jainism & Buddhism;
        Christianity; Islam.

        It's interesting to look
        at how these old school
        religions have morphed
        into various denominations
        and sects.

        Prometheus

        "etznab18" wrote:
        >
        > Sharing this because I just now found out about it.
        >
        > (1) Search for the word God in Boorstin's 1961 book, The Image.
        >
        > http://tinyurl.com/as88ksd
        >
        > (2) Note the words "The Laws of Nature and of Nature's God" on p. 182.
        >
        > (3) Compare p. 11 in Boorstin's book with p. 75 (last paragraph) of Twitchell's Letters to Gail III.
        >
        > http://www.scribd.com/doc/19980986/Letters-To-Gail-3
        >
        > Example: Keywords "intriguing feature" and
        >
        > "There remains a tantalizing difference between man-made and God-made events."
        >
        > - A sentence that appears in both books, by Boorstin (1961) and Twitchell (1964 letter & 1990 book.)
        >
        > ***
        >
        > Evidently, Paul Twitchell (in 1964) quoted some of Boorstin's book when he wrote his letter to Gail on February 29th, 1964. But how many people, before now, knew that Boorstin also (earlier) wrote the same sentence?
        >
        > "There remains a tantalizing difference between man-made and God-made events."
        >
        > https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups&hl=en#!topic/alt.religion.eckankar/TyAy_z3eMPQ
        >
        > ***
        >
        > There are other sentences exact between the two authors.
        >
        > I like having found this because I can now compare the two sources and learn how each author described the subject. Also can learn if Paul Twitchell reworded in any places another author's copyrighted work.
        >
      • etznab18
        All ancient and new religions, over time, have seen much of their scripture changed by inclusions or exclusions by councils or prophets and other experts or
        Message 3 of 7 , Jan 21, 2013
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          All ancient and new religions, over time, have seen much of their
          scripture changed by inclusions or exclusions by councils or prophets
          and other "experts" or theologians and scribes influenced by
          sex, ego, power, basic greed, money and politics.

          ***

          You can say that again.

          -----Original Message-----
          From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
          To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
          <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Mon, Jan 21, 2013 1:59 pm
          Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Pseudo Events - Trivia

           
          Hello Etznab and All,
          Yes, Twit's plagiarisms
          are apparent to us and
          Klemp recognized it by
          admitting that PT needed
          to get ECKankar off the
          ground quickly and, thus,
          used other people's
          research to do so... by
          hook or crook.

          The end justifies the
          means (PT's lies) according
          to Klemp. EKists have
          accepted this and will
          overlook or rationalize
          this because they see
          the modern creation of
          ECKankar as the greater
          good. But, Negativity (lies)
          cannot bring forth Truth.

          The thing is, a person
          is supposed to cite their
          sources and put copied
          text inside of quotation
          marks. That's why they
          are called "quotation
          marks."

          If one doesn't use quotes
          or cite sources the reader
          is mislead into thinking
          that these are the actual
          words and ideas of the
          author/writer.

          Thus, Twitchell and,
          now, Klemp became
          false prophets via their
          own efforts and amoral
          behaviors. Klemp is the
          biggest hypocrite in EK
          and is the last one to
          ever criticize an H.I.'s
          behavior!

          As far a "God" goes; it
          is interesting to look
          at the oldest religions
          that are still around.

          Twitchell, it's obvious,
          took a little something
          from all religions, but
          not necessarily the "best"
          from them as the story
          goes.

          Besides, most of these
          religious beliefs are flawed
          to begin with. That's one
          reason for the various
          denominations. Thought,
          perception and perspective
          from groups of believers
          dictated belief and experiences.
          And, this has usually led
          to change and has, in some
          cases, evolved over time
          (not always in a good way)
          while the fundamentalists
          have regressed into the
          literal beliefs of the lies,
          fabricated stories, myth,
          and exaggerations coming
          from known, unknown or
          unsubstantiated "original"
          sources pior to "prophetic"
          revisions.

          "Inspired" Scripture is
          always seen as coming
          from God, although, there
          are many degrees of
          perception. Truth cannot
          be easily validated, but
          religions by-pass any
          of the rational requirements.
          Religion is the easy way
          to accept God's existence
          and that's why they've
          made it difficult to follow
          with endless dogma, rules,
          and laws.

          Perhaps, The Real, individual
          path, is via deconstruction.

          All ancient and new religions,
          over time, have seen much
          of their scripture changed
          by inclusions or exclusions
          by councils or prophets and
          other "experts" or theologians
          and scribes influenced by
          sex, ego, power, basic greed,
          money and politics.

          Hinduism is the oldest
          religion, next come:
          Judaism; Zoroastrianism;
          Jainism & Buddhism;
          Christianity; Islam.

          It's interesting to look
          at how these old school
          religions have morphed
          into various denominations
          and sects.

          Prometheus

          "etznab18" wrote:
          >
          > Sharing this because I just now found out about it.
          >
          > (1) Search for the word God in Boorstin's 1961 book, The Image.
          >
          > http://tinyurl.com/as88ksd
          >
          > (2) Note the words "The Laws of Nature and of Nature's God" on p.
          182.
          >
          > (3) Compare p. 11 in Boorstin's book with p. 75 (last paragraph)
          of Twitchell's Letters to Gail III.
          >
          > http://www.scribd.com/doc/19980986/Letters-To-Gail-3
          >
          > Example: Keywords "intriguing feature" and
          >
          > "There remains a tantalizing difference between man-made and
          God-made events."
          >
          > - A sentence that appears in both books, by Boorstin (1961) and
          Twitchell (1964 letter & 1990 book.)
          >
          > ***
          >
          > Evidently, Paul Twitchell (in 1964) quoted some of Boorstin's book
          when he wrote his letter to Gail on February 29th, 1964. But how many
          people, before now, knew that Boorstin also (earlier) wrote the same
          sentence?
          >
          > "There remains a tantalizing difference between man-made and
          God-made events."
          >
          >
          https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups&hl=en#!topic/alt.religion.eckankar/TyAy_z3eMPQ
          >
          > ***
          >
          > There are other sentences exact between the two authors.
          >
          > I like having found this because I can now compare the two sources
          and learn how each author described the subject. Also can learn if Paul
          Twitchell reworded in any places another author's copyrighted work.
          >
        • prometheus_973
          Hello All, I find it interesting that there are some denominations in Judaism that are all inclusive. They see those in other denominations as fellow Jews.
          Message 4 of 7 , Jan 21, 2013
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            Hello All,
            I find it interesting
            that there are some
            denominations in
            Judaism that are all
            inclusive. They see
            those in other denominations
            as fellow Jews. Whereas
            there are other more
            ultra orthodox
            denominations that
            don't.

            The same applies
            to Christianity. Some
            older denominations
            see themselves closer
            to the origins of God's
            teachings. They rely
            upon a stagnant old-
            world mindset and
            myth to give themselves
            authority above others.

            This same exclusive
            mindset applies to
            ECKankar. Rather than
            greet and support those
            who, also, believe in
            the Shabd (i.e. the Light
            and Sound) EKists will
            throw these same Spirit
            minded people out of
            their meetings, worship
            services, and ECK Centers.
            And, people cannot join-
            in with their "worship"
            of the Shabd without
            paying a membership
            fee. What other religion,
            other than Eckankar,
            requires a membership
            fee (called a donation
            for tax purposes)!

            Eckankar is all about
            initiation. That's why
            ECKists will pay (yearly)
            in order to get the
            membership card that
            leads to initiation...
            at least until Klemp's
            requirement blockade
            becomes unbearable
            and more initiations
            become (for all practical
            purposes) unattainable.

            P

            etznab@... wrote:
            All ancient and new religions, over time, have seen much of their
            scripture changed by inclusions or exclusions by councils or prophets
            and other "experts" or theologians and scribes influenced by
            sex, ego, power, basic greed, money and politics.

            ***

            You can say that again.



            prometheus wrote:
            (revised)
            Hello Etznab and All,
            Yes, Twit's plagiarisms
            are apparent to us and
            Klemp recognized it by
            admitting that PT needed
            to get ECKankar off the
            ground quickly and, thus,
            used other people's
            research to do so... by
            hook or crook.

            The end justifies the
            means (PT's lies) according
            to Klemp. EKists have
            accepted this and will
            overlook or rationalize
            this because they see
            the modern creation of
            ECKankar as the greater
            good. But, Negativity (lies)
            cannot bring forth Truth.

            The thing is, a person
            is supposed to cite their
            sources and put copied
            text inside of quotation
            marks. That's why they
            are called "quotation
            marks."

            If one doesn't use quotes
            or cite sources the reader
            is mislead into thinking
            that these are the actual
            words and ideas of the
            author/writer.

            Thus, Twitchell and,
            now, Klemp became
            false prophets via their
            own nefarious efforts
            and amoral behaviors.
            Klemp is the biggest
            hypocrite in EK and
            should be the last one
            to ever criticize an H.I.'s
            behavior!

            As far a "God" goes; it
            is interesting to look
            at the oldest religions
            that are still around.

            Twitchell, it's obvious,
            took a little something
            from all religions, but
            not necessarily the "best"
            from them as the story
            goes.

            Besides, most of these
            religious beliefs are flawed
            to begin with. That's one
            reason for the various
            denominations.

            Thought, perception and
            perspective from groups
            of believers dictated belief
            and experiences.

            And, this has usually led
            to change and has, in some
            cases, evolved over time
            (not always in a good way)
            while the fundamentalists
            have regressed into the
            literal beliefs of the lies,
            fabricated stories, myth,
            and exaggerations coming
            from known, unknown or
            unsubstantiated "original"
            sources pior to "prophetic"
            revisions.

            "Inspired" Scripture is
            always seen as coming
            from God, although, there
            are many degrees of
            perception. Truth cannot
            be easily validated, but
            religions by-pass any
            of the rational requirements.

            Religion via cultural/societal
            groups is the easy way and
            means to accept God's existence.
            The majority rules and large
            numbers give validation. This
            is why the powers that be have
            made it difficult to find happiness
            except by following endless
            dogma, rules, promises, faith
            and laws. It's a way to distract
            the masses from the truth while
            keeping them under control,
            and off balance for the clerics
            and scribes to manipulate.

            Perhaps, The Real, individual
            path, is via deconstruction.

            All ancient and new religions,
            over time, have seen much
            of their scripture changed
            by inclusions or exclusions
            by councils or prophets and
            other "experts" or theologians
            and scribes influenced by
            sex, ego, power, basic greed,
            money and politics.

            Hinduism is the oldest
            religion, next come:
            Judaism; Zoroastrianism;
            Jainism & Buddhism;
            Christianity; Islam.

            It's interesting to look
            at how these old school
            religions have morphed
            into various denominations
            and sects.

            Prometheus
          • Non
            Do you know if it is true that some forms of Judaism believe that all languages evolved from Hebrew. If so, I don t see HU as part of their spirituality, and
            Message 5 of 7 , Jan 22, 2013
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              Do you know if it is true that some forms of Judaism believe that all languages evolved from Hebrew. If so, I don't see HU as part of their spirituality, and is this discussed in eckankar. I don't recall. I do though recall some eck book using Genesis as proof of God creating the earth with the Word. This is a very Biblical approach. And of course their are no ancient texts of eckankar to provide proof for anything, except supposedly on the astral or whatever. All of this is a lot like the basis of Mormonism, the gold plates that mysteriously disappeared.

              The typical con will do this. There is always slight of hand, and just trust me and just stop thinking so much about it......

              Non ;)

              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" wrote:
              >
              > Hello All,
              > I find it interesting
              > that there are some
              > denominations in
              > Judaism that are all
              > inclusive. They see
              > those in other denominations
              > as fellow Jews. Whereas
              > there are other more
              > ultra orthodox
              > denominations that
              > don't.
              >
              > The same applies
              > to Christianity. Some
              > older denominations
              > see themselves closer
              > to the origins of God's
              > teachings. They rely
              > upon a stagnant old-
              > world mindset and
              > myth to give themselves
              > authority above others.
              >
              > This same exclusive
              > mindset applies to
              > ECKankar. Rather than
              > greet and support those
              > who, also, believe in
              > the Shabd (i.e. the Light
              > and Sound) EKists will
              > throw these same Spirit
              > minded people out of
              > their meetings, worship
              > services, and ECK Centers.
              > And, people cannot join-
              > in with their "worship"
              > of the Shabd without
              > paying a membership
              > fee. What other religion,
              > other than Eckankar,
              > requires a membership
              > fee (called a donation
              > for tax purposes)!
              >
              > Eckankar is all about
              > initiation. That's why
              > ECKists will pay (yearly)
              > in order to get the
              > membership card that
              > leads to initiation...
              > at least until Klemp's
              > requirement blockade
              > becomes unbearable
              > and more initiations
              > become (for all practical
              > purposes) unattainable.
              >
              > P
              >
              > etznab@ wrote:
              > All ancient and new religions, over time, have seen much of their
              > scripture changed by inclusions or exclusions by councils or prophets
              > and other "experts" or theologians and scribes influenced by
              > sex, ego, power, basic greed, money and politics.
              >
              > ***
              >
              > You can say that again.
              >
              >
              >
              > prometheus wrote:
              > (revised)
              > Hello Etznab and All,
              > Yes, Twit's plagiarisms
              > are apparent to us and
              > Klemp recognized it by
              > admitting that PT needed
              > to get ECKankar off the
              > ground quickly and, thus,
              > used other people's
              > research to do so... by
              > hook or crook.
              >
              > The end justifies the
              > means (PT's lies) according
              > to Klemp. EKists have
              > accepted this and will
              > overlook or rationalize
              > this because they see
              > the modern creation of
              > ECKankar as the greater
              > good. But, Negativity (lies)
              > cannot bring forth Truth.
              >
              > The thing is, a person
              > is supposed to cite their
              > sources and put copied
              > text inside of quotation
              > marks. That's why they
              > are called "quotation
              > marks."
              >
              > If one doesn't use quotes
              > or cite sources the reader
              > is mislead into thinking
              > that these are the actual
              > words and ideas of the
              > author/writer.
              >
              > Thus, Twitchell and,
              > now, Klemp became
              > false prophets via their
              > own nefarious efforts
              > and amoral behaviors.
              > Klemp is the biggest
              > hypocrite in EK and
              > should be the last one
              > to ever criticize an H.I.'s
              > behavior!
              >
              > As far a "God" goes; it
              > is interesting to look
              > at the oldest religions
              > that are still around.
              >
              > Twitchell, it's obvious,
              > took a little something
              > from all religions, but
              > not necessarily the "best"
              > from them as the story
              > goes.
              >
              > Besides, most of these
              > religious beliefs are flawed
              > to begin with. That's one
              > reason for the various
              > denominations.
              >
              > Thought, perception and
              > perspective from groups
              > of believers dictated belief
              > and experiences.
              >
              > And, this has usually led
              > to change and has, in some
              > cases, evolved over time
              > (not always in a good way)
              > while the fundamentalists
              > have regressed into the
              > literal beliefs of the lies,
              > fabricated stories, myth,
              > and exaggerations coming
              > from known, unknown or
              > unsubstantiated "original"
              > sources pior to "prophetic"
              > revisions.
              >
              > "Inspired" Scripture is
              > always seen as coming
              > from God, although, there
              > are many degrees of
              > perception. Truth cannot
              > be easily validated, but
              > religions by-pass any
              > of the rational requirements.
              >
              > Religion via cultural/societal
              > groups is the easy way and
              > means to accept God's existence.
              > The majority rules and large
              > numbers give validation. This
              > is why the powers that be have
              > made it difficult to find happiness
              > except by following endless
              > dogma, rules, promises, faith
              > and laws. It's a way to distract
              > the masses from the truth while
              > keeping them under control,
              > and off balance for the clerics
              > and scribes to manipulate.
              >
              > Perhaps, The Real, individual
              > path, is via deconstruction.
              >
              > All ancient and new religions,
              > over time, have seen much
              > of their scripture changed
              > by inclusions or exclusions
              > by councils or prophets and
              > other "experts" or theologians
              > and scribes influenced by
              > sex, ego, power, basic greed,
              > money and politics.
              >
              > Hinduism is the oldest
              > religion, next come:
              > Judaism; Zoroastrianism;
              > Jainism & Buddhism;
              > Christianity; Islam.
              >
              > It's interesting to look
              > at how these old school
              > religions have morphed
              > into various denominations
              > and sects.
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
            • etznab18
              There is a word Hu in Sanskrit, I believe, and it was somehow associated with rituals. I think during the time of the Vedas. One can find it mentioned in
              Message 6 of 7 , Jan 22, 2013
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                There is a word "Hu" in Sanskrit, I believe, and it was somehow
                associated with rituals. I think during the time of the Vedas. One can
                find it mentioned in connection with rituals like the fire sacrifice,
                or ritual offerings. I'm not completely satisfied with the modern
                definitions because they don't go far enough to explain what exactly
                the word means, what part of the rituals and sacrifices it pertained
                to. At one time I thought I had a handle on the probable meaning, but I
                don't remember if I was ever completely satisfied I knew for sure. Here
                are some examples:

                hu - "call, invoke, invite, summon; offer, sacrifice (Sanskrit).
                Associated spellings:words: huta ['offerings; usually made to a
                fire']."

                Compare that with the Egyptian definition of "Hu" as "authoritative
                utterance" and it looks (to me) like the word "Hu" might pertain simply
                to making a sound. Considering the "sound" of "hu" it is a very common
                one that people were probably uttering since prehistoric times. How it
                ever became associated with things spiritual, or God, I am not prepared
                to say.

                Far as Hebrew goes, one probably needs to consider if Egyptian is
                older. If the Hebrews borrowed the word, or changed the meaning. For
                instance, pronunciation for the Hebrew Tetragrammaton - "YHVH" was
                declared to be secret, unknown, or the correct pronunciation known only
                to the high priest of the temple and that it was eventually forgotten
                to history. This is why other words and names are used in it's place.
                Such as Ha Shem, meaning "the name".

                I did a whole page on available history for Hu (and related words)
                once, but I can't say that I really subscribe to ANY of them as being
                100 percent accurate. Nevertheless, if anybody wants a reference page
                showing what people have said, go here.

                http://www.mirrorh.com/iaoyhvhhu.html

                ***

                Btw, I have seen a number of words from Sanskrit and Hebrew that are
                similar in sound and meaning. Hard to say who borrowed from who though.
                However, one thing to keep in mind is the Babylonian captivity of
                certain Hebrew tribes. Babylon was closer to Persia and Persia closer
                to India. What I am saying is that there were relations and influences
                back and forth between Persia and India. Consider Avestan and Sanskrit.
                So when the Israelites were captive in Babylon and later freed by (Was
                it Darius?) it is quite possible they picked up words, history and
                traditions from those areas. Not only possible, but probable.

                Hu seems to be similar to the Greek Eu, etc., with the basic meaning of
                "good". sanskrit also has a prefix Su- with the basic meaning of
                "good". In Avestan I believe there was Vohu Manu; with Vohu meaning
                "good".

                OK. So consider this. When people today make a big to do about
                something, when they cheer, etc., a very common expression is Whoo!
                Hooo! (Say it isn't so.) And to tell you the truth I think this sound,
                that of "huuuu" could have probably been used in a similar way so many
                years ago. And in that case it is just a sound, or a reaction, a form
                of expression used by people who get excited - like during rituals in
                the olden days!

                It's just a guess. A hunch.

                eu-

                word-forming element in modern use meaning "good, well," from comb.
                form of Greek eus "good," eu "well" (adv.), also "luckily, happily,"
                from PIE *(e)su- "good" (cf. Sanskrit su- "good," Avestan hu- "good").

                http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=eu-&searchmode=none

                ***

                Sorry for the length ... the history of words is one of my main
                interests.






                -----Original Message-----
                From: Non <eckchains@...>
                To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
                <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Tue, Jan 22, 2013 6:12 pm
                Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Pseudo Events - Trivia
                (revised)

                 
                Do you know if it is true that some forms of Judaism believe that all
                languages evolved from Hebrew. If so, I don't see HU as part of their
                spirituality, and is this discussed in eckankar. I don't recall. I do
                though recall some eck book using Genesis as proof of God creating the
                earth with the Word. This is a very Biblical approach. And of course
                their are no ancient texts of eckankar to provide proof for anything,
                except supposedly on the astral or whatever. All of this is a lot like
                the basis of Mormonism, the gold plates that mysteriously disappeared.

                The typical con will do this. There is always slight of hand, and just
                trust me and just stop thinking so much about it......

                Non ;)

                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                wrote:
                >
                > Hello All,
                > I find it interesting
                > that there are some
                > denominations in
                > Judaism that are all
                > inclusive. They see
                > those in other denominations
                > as fellow Jews. Whereas
                > there are other more
                > ultra orthodox
                > denominations that
                > don't.
                >
                > The same applies
                > to Christianity. Some
                > older denominations
                > see themselves closer
                > to the origins of God's
                > teachings. They rely
                > upon a stagnant old-
                > world mindset and
                > myth to give themselves
                > authority above others.
                >
                > This same exclusive
                > mindset applies to
                > ECKankar. Rather than
                > greet and support those
                > who, also, believe in
                > the Shabd (i.e. the Light
                > and Sound) EKists will
                > throw these same Spirit
                > minded people out of
                > their meetings, worship
                > services, and ECK Centers.
                > And, people cannot join-
                > in with their "worship"
                > of the Shabd without
                > paying a membership
                > fee. What other religion,
                > other than Eckankar,
                > requires a membership
                > fee (called a donation
                > for tax purposes)!
                >
                > Eckankar is all about
                > initiation. That's why
                > ECKists will pay (yearly)
                > in order to get the
                > membership card that
                > leads to initiation...
                > at least until Klemp's
                > requirement blockade
                > becomes unbearable
                > and more initiations
                > become (for all practical
                > purposes) unattainable.
                >
                > P
                >
                > etznab@ wrote:
                > All ancient and new religions, over time, have seen much of their
                > scripture changed by inclusions or exclusions by councils or
                prophets
                > and other "experts" or theologians and scribes influenced by
                > sex, ego, power, basic greed, money and politics.
                >
                > ***
                >
                > You can say that again.
                >
                >
                >
                > prometheus wrote:
                > (revised)
                > Hello Etznab and All,
                > Yes, Twit's plagiarisms
                > are apparent to us and
                > Klemp recognized it by
                > admitting that PT needed
                > to get ECKankar off the
                > ground quickly and, thus,
                > used other people's
                > research to do so... by
                > hook or crook.
                >
                > The end justifies the
                > means (PT's lies) according
                > to Klemp. EKists have
                > accepted this and will
                > overlook or rationalize
                > this because they see
                > the modern creation of
                > ECKankar as the greater
                > good. But, Negativity (lies)
                > cannot bring forth Truth.
                >
                > The thing is, a person
                > is supposed to cite their
                > sources and put copied
                > text inside of quotation
                > marks. That's why they
                > are called "quotation
                > marks."
                >
                > If one doesn't use quotes
                > or cite sources the reader
                > is mislead into thinking
                > that these are the actual
                > words and ideas of the
                > author/writer.
                >
                > Thus, Twitchell and,
                > now, Klemp became
                > false prophets via their
                > own nefarious efforts
                > and amoral behaviors.
                > Klemp is the biggest
                > hypocrite in EK and
                > should be the last one
                > to ever criticize an H.I.'s
                > behavior!
                >
                > As far a "God" goes; it
                > is interesting to look
                > at the oldest religions
                > that are still around.
                >
                > Twitchell, it's obvious,
                > took a little something
                > from all religions, but
                > not necessarily the "best"
                > from them as the story
                > goes.
                >
                > Besides, most of these
                > religious beliefs are flawed
                > to begin with. That's one
                > reason for the various
                > denominations.
                >
                > Thought, perception and
                > perspective from groups
                > of believers dictated belief
                > and experiences.
                >
                > And, this has usually led
                > to change and has, in some
                > cases, evolved over time
                > (not always in a good way)
                > while the fundamentalists
                > have regressed into the
                > literal beliefs of the lies,
                > fabricated stories, myth,
                > and exaggerations coming
                > from known, unknown or
                > unsubstantiated "original"
                > sources pior to "prophetic"
                > revisions.
                >
                > "Inspired" Scripture is
                > always seen as coming
                > from God, although, there
                > are many degrees of
                > perception. Truth cannot
                > be easily validated, but
                > religions by-pass any
                > of the rational requirements.
                >
                > Religion via cultural/societal
                > groups is the easy way and
                > means to accept God's existence.
                > The majority rules and large
                > numbers give validation. This
                > is why the powers that be have
                > made it difficult to find happiness
                > except by following endless
                > dogma, rules, promises, faith
                > and laws. It's a way to distract
                > the masses from the truth while
                > keeping them under control,
                > and off balance for the clerics
                > and scribes to manipulate.
                >
                > Perhaps, The Real, individual
                > path, is via deconstruction.
                >
                > All ancient and new religions,
                > over time, have seen much
                > of their scripture changed
                > by inclusions or exclusions
                > by councils or prophets and
                > other "experts" or theologians
                > and scribes influenced by
                > sex, ego, power, basic greed,
                > money and politics.
                >
                > Hinduism is the oldest
                > religion, next come:
                > Judaism; Zoroastrianism;
                > Jainism & Buddhism;
                > Christianity; Islam.
                >
                > It's interesting to look
                > at how these old school
                > religions have morphed
                > into various denominations
                > and sects.
                >
                > Prometheus
                >
              • Non
                Thanks, very impressive analysis. I did find that hu in Hebrew and Arabic means he , referring to a male. And then there is Allah hu Akbar, God is Great and
                Message 7 of 7 , Jan 23, 2013
                • 0 Attachment
                  Thanks, very impressive analysis. I did find that hu in Hebrew and Arabic means "he", referring to a male. And then there is Allah hu Akbar, God is Great and also a he.

                  Hoo is an interesting sound and as you say, it is a very common sound or utterance. If voicing a certain sound is so powerful, I think it would be common knowledge and heavily studied by scientists. It could also be simply the sound of a dove, which I have found to be quite a lovely sound and is more like "whoooo".

                  The way eckists pronounce hu (hue) sounds kind of like a Southern version, and since Twitch was from the South, it may have just been his Southern accent and eckists are just clueless that they are pronouncing it wrong.

                  Non ; )

                  --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, etznab@... wrote:
                  >
                  > There is a word "Hu" in Sanskrit, I believe, and it was somehow
                  > associated with rituals. I think during the time of the Vedas. One can
                  > find it mentioned in connection with rituals like the fire sacrifice,
                  > or ritual offerings. I'm not completely satisfied with the modern
                  > definitions because they don't go far enough to explain what exactly
                  > the word means, what part of the rituals and sacrifices it pertained
                  > to. At one time I thought I had a handle on the probable meaning, but I
                  > don't remember if I was ever completely satisfied I knew for sure. Here
                  > are some examples:
                  >
                  > hu - "call, invoke, invite, summon; offer, sacrifice (Sanskrit).
                  > Associated spellings:words: huta ['offerings; usually made to a
                  > fire']."
                  >
                  > Compare that with the Egyptian definition of "Hu" as "authoritative
                  > utterance" and it looks (to me) like the word "Hu" might pertain simply
                  > to making a sound. Considering the "sound" of "hu" it is a very common
                  > one that people were probably uttering since prehistoric times. How it
                  > ever became associated with things spiritual, or God, I am not prepared
                  > to say.
                  >
                  > Far as Hebrew goes, one probably needs to consider if Egyptian is
                  > older. If the Hebrews borrowed the word, or changed the meaning. For
                  > instance, pronunciation for the Hebrew Tetragrammaton - "YHVH" was
                  > declared to be secret, unknown, or the correct pronunciation known only
                  > to the high priest of the temple and that it was eventually forgotten
                  > to history. This is why other words and names are used in it's place.
                  > Such as Ha Shem, meaning "the name".
                  >
                  > I did a whole page on available history for Hu (and related words)
                  > once, but I can't say that I really subscribe to ANY of them as being
                  > 100 percent accurate. Nevertheless, if anybody wants a reference page
                  > showing what people have said, go here.
                  >
                  > http://www.mirrorh.com/iaoyhvhhu.html
                  >
                  > ***
                  >
                  > Btw, I have seen a number of words from Sanskrit and Hebrew that are
                  > similar in sound and meaning. Hard to say who borrowed from who though.
                  > However, one thing to keep in mind is the Babylonian captivity of
                  > certain Hebrew tribes. Babylon was closer to Persia and Persia closer
                  > to India. What I am saying is that there were relations and influences
                  > back and forth between Persia and India. Consider Avestan and Sanskrit.
                  > So when the Israelites were captive in Babylon and later freed by (Was
                  > it Darius?) it is quite possible they picked up words, history and
                  > traditions from those areas. Not only possible, but probable.
                  >
                  > Hu seems to be similar to the Greek Eu, etc., with the basic meaning of
                  > "good". sanskrit also has a prefix Su- with the basic meaning of
                  > "good". In Avestan I believe there was Vohu Manu; with Vohu meaning
                  > "good".
                  >
                  > OK. So consider this. When people today make a big to do about
                  > something, when they cheer, etc., a very common expression is Whoo!
                  > Hooo! (Say it isn't so.) And to tell you the truth I think this sound,
                  > that of "huuuu" could have probably been used in a similar way so many
                  > years ago. And in that case it is just a sound, or a reaction, a form
                  > of expression used by people who get excited - like during rituals in
                  > the olden days!
                  >
                  > It's just a guess. A hunch.
                  >
                  > eu-
                  >
                  > word-forming element in modern use meaning "good, well," from comb.
                  > form of Greek eus "good," eu "well" (adv.), also "luckily, happily,"
                  > from PIE *(e)su- "good" (cf. Sanskrit su- "good," Avestan hu- "good").
                  >
                  > http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=eu-&searchmode=none
                  >
                  > ***
                  >
                  > Sorry for the length ... the history of words is one of my main
                  > interests.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: Non
                  > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
                  >
                  > Sent: Tue, Jan 22, 2013 6:12 pm
                  > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Pseudo Events - Trivia
                  > (revised)
                  >
                  >  
                  > Do you know if it is true that some forms of Judaism believe that all
                  > languages evolved from Hebrew. If so, I don't see HU as part of their
                  > spirituality, and is this discussed in eckankar. I don't recall. I do
                  > though recall some eck book using Genesis as proof of God creating the
                  > earth with the Word. This is a very Biblical approach. And of course
                  > their are no ancient texts of eckankar to provide proof for anything,
                  > except supposedly on the astral or whatever. All of this is a lot like
                  > the basis of Mormonism, the gold plates that mysteriously disappeared.
                  >
                  > The typical con will do this. There is always slight of hand, and just
                  > trust me and just stop thinking so much about it......
                  >
                  > Non ;)
                  >
                  > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                  > wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hello All,
                  > > I find it interesting
                  > > that there are some
                  > > denominations in
                  > > Judaism that are all
                  > > inclusive. They see
                  > > those in other denominations
                  > > as fellow Jews. Whereas
                  > > there are other more
                  > > ultra orthodox
                  > > denominations that
                  > > don't.
                  > >
                  > > The same applies
                  > > to Christianity. Some
                  > > older denominations
                  > > see themselves closer
                  > > to the origins of God's
                  > > teachings. They rely
                  > > upon a stagnant old-
                  > > world mindset and
                  > > myth to give themselves
                  > > authority above others.
                  > >
                  > > This same exclusive
                  > > mindset applies to
                  > > ECKankar. Rather than
                  > > greet and support those
                  > > who, also, believe in
                  > > the Shabd (i.e. the Light
                  > > and Sound) EKists will
                  > > throw these same Spirit
                  > > minded people out of
                  > > their meetings, worship
                  > > services, and ECK Centers.
                  > > And, people cannot join-
                  > > in with their "worship"
                  > > of the Shabd without
                  > > paying a membership
                  > > fee. What other religion,
                  > > other than Eckankar,
                  > > requires a membership
                  > > fee (called a donation
                  > > for tax purposes)!
                  > >
                  > > Eckankar is all about
                  > > initiation. That's why
                  > > ECKists will pay (yearly)
                  > > in order to get the
                  > > membership card that
                  > > leads to initiation...
                  > > at least until Klemp's
                  > > requirement blockade
                  > > becomes unbearable
                  > > and more initiations
                  > > become (for all practical
                  > > purposes) unattainable.
                  > >
                  > > P
                  > >
                  > > etznab@ wrote:
                  > > All ancient and new religions, over time, have seen much of their
                  > > scripture changed by inclusions or exclusions by councils or
                  > prophets
                  > > and other "experts" or theologians and scribes influenced by
                  > > sex, ego, power, basic greed, money and politics.
                  > >
                  > > ***
                  > >
                  > > You can say that again.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > prometheus wrote:
                  > > (revised)
                  > > Hello Etznab and All,
                  > > Yes, Twit's plagiarisms
                  > > are apparent to us and
                  > > Klemp recognized it by
                  > > admitting that PT needed
                  > > to get ECKankar off the
                  > > ground quickly and, thus,
                  > > used other people's
                  > > research to do so... by
                  > > hook or crook.
                  > >
                  > > The end justifies the
                  > > means (PT's lies) according
                  > > to Klemp. EKists have
                  > > accepted this and will
                  > > overlook or rationalize
                  > > this because they see
                  > > the modern creation of
                  > > ECKankar as the greater
                  > > good. But, Negativity (lies)
                  > > cannot bring forth Truth.
                  > >
                  > > The thing is, a person
                  > > is supposed to cite their
                  > > sources and put copied
                  > > text inside of quotation
                  > > marks. That's why they
                  > > are called "quotation
                  > > marks."
                  > >
                  > > If one doesn't use quotes
                  > > or cite sources the reader
                  > > is mislead into thinking
                  > > that these are the actual
                  > > words and ideas of the
                  > > author/writer.
                  > >
                  > > Thus, Twitchell and,
                  > > now, Klemp became
                  > > false prophets via their
                  > > own nefarious efforts
                  > > and amoral behaviors.
                  > > Klemp is the biggest
                  > > hypocrite in EK and
                  > > should be the last one
                  > > to ever criticize an H.I.'s
                  > > behavior!
                  > >
                  > > As far a "God" goes; it
                  > > is interesting to look
                  > > at the oldest religions
                  > > that are still around.
                  > >
                  > > Twitchell, it's obvious,
                  > > took a little something
                  > > from all religions, but
                  > > not necessarily the "best"
                  > > from them as the story
                  > > goes.
                  > >
                  > > Besides, most of these
                  > > religious beliefs are flawed
                  > > to begin with. That's one
                  > > reason for the various
                  > > denominations.
                  > >
                  > > Thought, perception and
                  > > perspective from groups
                  > > of believers dictated belief
                  > > and experiences.
                  > >
                  > > And, this has usually led
                  > > to change and has, in some
                  > > cases, evolved over time
                  > > (not always in a good way)
                  > > while the fundamentalists
                  > > have regressed into the
                  > > literal beliefs of the lies,
                  > > fabricated stories, myth,
                  > > and exaggerations coming
                  > > from known, unknown or
                  > > unsubstantiated "original"
                  > > sources pior to "prophetic"
                  > > revisions.
                  > >
                  > > "Inspired" Scripture is
                  > > always seen as coming
                  > > from God, although, there
                  > > are many degrees of
                  > > perception. Truth cannot
                  > > be easily validated, but
                  > > religions by-pass any
                  > > of the rational requirements.
                  > >
                  > > Religion via cultural/societal
                  > > groups is the easy way and
                  > > means to accept God's existence.
                  > > The majority rules and large
                  > > numbers give validation. This
                  > > is why the powers that be have
                  > > made it difficult to find happiness
                  > > except by following endless
                  > > dogma, rules, promises, faith
                  > > and laws. It's a way to distract
                  > > the masses from the truth while
                  > > keeping them under control,
                  > > and off balance for the clerics
                  > > and scribes to manipulate.
                  > >
                  > > Perhaps, The Real, individual
                  > > path, is via deconstruction.
                  > >
                  > > All ancient and new religions,
                  > > over time, have seen much
                  > > of their scripture changed
                  > > by inclusions or exclusions
                  > > by councils or prophets and
                  > > other "experts" or theologians
                  > > and scribes influenced by
                  > > sex, ego, power, basic greed,
                  > > money and politics.
                  > >
                  > > Hinduism is the oldest
                  > > religion, next come:
                  > > Judaism; Zoroastrianism;
                  > > Jainism & Buddhism;
                  > > Christianity; Islam.
                  > >
                  > > It's interesting to look
                  > > at how these old school
                  > > religions have morphed
                  > > into various denominations
                  > > and sects.
                  > >
                  > > Prometheus
                  > >
                  >
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