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Re: The Wishy-Washy Mahanta

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello Non and All, Actually, having good interactive relationships with other people isn t necessarily about making new friends nor having the same religious,
    Message 1 of 29 , Jan 13, 2013
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      Hello Non and All,
      Actually, having good
      interactive relationships
      with other people isn't
      necessarily about making
      new friends nor having
      the same religious, political,
      and lifestyle beliefs.
      Trying to get others
      to follow or accept our
      beliefs isn't the goal.

      It's more about being
      "friendly" to/with/for
      others and, thus, to
      ourselves. Usually, being
      friendly and promoting
      "friendship" (versus making
      friends) isn't that hard
      to accomplish. And, if
      it is, we need to make
      more of an effort and
      figure out what it is that's
      making this difficult.

      Smiles, politeness, sharing
      some small talk, and recognizing
      the other person by looking
      directly at them goes a
      long way.

      We can have a friendship
      (i.e. relationship) with a
      clerk whose full name we
      might not ever know. It's
      fun to simply, and naturally,
      smile and be friendly to
      strangers and acquaintances
      without expecting anything
      else. It takes the pressure
      off everyone when we keep
      it light. This lightness of
      Being will help to improve
      our lives and that of others.

      It's true that we will never
      be able to be friendly with
      some people. And, we won't
      always be friends with those
      people we know now. Some
      people don't deserve our
      efforts and will never deserve
      it. They are enemies to what
      we believe in.

      And, not all relationships
      work out nor need to be
      continued for the sake of
      all those involved. Sometimes
      people just have to let go
      and move on even with
      family members. But, these
      are usually relationships
      that have become complicated
      via various factors and are
      usually more one-sided
      due to a lack of communication,
      closed mindedness and
      hurt feelings.

      Our positive relationships
      with nature, to animals,
      and to other people are
      connections that make our
      lives worth living.


      Prometheus





      "Non" wrote:
      Prometheus, I like what you said in a previous post on this thread that we need
      to focus more on caring relationships with others, sometimes easier said than
      done, cause a lot of people in our society are not that interested in making new
      friends. Finding people who aren't interested in some new or old Dogma has it's
      challenges as well. However, I have noticed that the demographic of unaffiliated
      as far as religion may be growing. :)

      Non ;)

      "Non" wrote:
      >
      > Also, IMHO, it has to do with our woeful ability to care for our children, to
      teach them kindness through example and compassion. Alice Miller has written a
      lot about some of the worst in our history, like Hitler and Stalin and some
      possible reasons for why they became the psychopathic leaders of what was
      inexhaustible destruction. Some sociopaths, given the power and opportunity to
      act without impunity will not stop and won't be reformed. Then again some may.
      In the mean time, the best approach is to continue to speak out against them,
      otherwise they will see their actions as unopposed and rationalized somehow as
      even a twisted moral imperative.
      >
      > Though they may be damaged or even genetically bent in a certain malevolent
      direction and they have not found in themselves a heart with empathy, at some
      point they simply must be opposed at every possible way, even though it may seem
      like a small intervention.
      >
      > Anyway, that's my one point of view for now. Recently, I've had several
      situations that have really cautioned me about how some will intentionally con
      and steal and lie in a very deliberate mix of what seems to be sincerity and
      outright manipulation for their own personal gain. I have felt hurt and shocked
      at the same time. I am learning that it is really a good idea to be vigilant,
      and it is a balancing act of how to do this while still not closing off your own
      heart and sense of kindness, which I think starts with yourself.
      >
      > Non ;)
      >
      Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
      > >
      Hi I am,
      It is not that I feel tolerant of the sociopath but it seems inevitable that
      we deal with them. I do believe they are those who haven't learned much yet.
      So I feel like the best we can do is keep them from harming us as much as
      possible and let them go on their way.
      Thanks for your comments.
      > >
      I AM wrote:
      > >
      Thanks Prometheus for writing challenging angles to view life from. And
      regardless of our origins it still seems to come down to finding and sharing
      meaning, purpose, love, care etc. in our lives.
      > >
      > > Wow Janice your heart-felt expression of love for life and tolerance for the
      sociopathically insane really touched me. I have a lot of learning to get to the
      point that you expressed....very inspirational amd appreciated.
      > >
      > > I AM
      > >
      Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
      > > >
      Thank you Prometheus, I enjoyed your writing very much. The way I see
      it when the bad guys do bad things and the sociopaths use it for their purposes,
      there are always the good guys who step forth and do the right things. We
      talked a lot about that school shooting recently and I believe that is a
      happening that stunned us all. The senselessness of what happened is not
      something a loving heart can even begin to understand. But there where
      people there who gave their lives to protect helpless children. There were
      people from all over the country who helped in anyway they could. That town
      came together to support each other in an amazing way. Shared grief does
      appear to make a lighter burden for the individual. So for me, I think there
      is a kind of balance of good and evil even if it is the evil we hear the most
      about. We hear so much of the bad it is hard to keep believing in the
      good. But when people are hurt, there are always others
      > > > who come forward and do what they can to give comfort and love. It
      doesn't take the pain away but it shows those who are hurting that there is
      still love in the world and no number of atrocities can destroy that
      willingness to help others. Maybe part of growing is learning to discern the
      motives of others and learning not to be taken in by sociopaths. Maybe part
      of what we are here to do is to love against all odds when the media blasts us
      everyday with horrible stories and tells us how close we are to being blown away
      by foreign threats. Maybe what we are learning is that a loving heart is a
      strong heart while those who usually do these horrible things are afraid and
      broken inside. Maybe those sociopaths aren't the strongest either since it
      takes so much energy just maintaining their facades that they don't really see
      the precious things in life like those loving relationships you mentioned.
      After all, most of them are so busy hiding their
      > > > true selves they are obviously cowards. They don't live life, they
      hide from life while trying to grab all they can for themselves. You got to
      admit that life is full of smoke and mirrors and the real gems in life may not
      sparkle like diamonds but do give off a quiet beauty that only those with the
      knowledge to appreciate them can even see them. So I guess those sociopaths
      have a lot of learning to do and a lot of growing to do before they can ever
      even start to see a glint of beauty in life itself. When you love, your
      heart can break but can you really say the love wasn't worth it? I would
      rather know my heart will hurt than not to feel anything for others at all.
      Strong loving hearts will mend but those shattered beings who harm and use
      others haven't even begun the journey. Loving hearts can and will share the
      pain. Eckankar doesn't do anything for anyone but eckankar. So what does
      that say about the lem and the other leaders of eckankar? I'd say those they
      use are closer to perfection than they can even see. Bless all the loving eckist
      tonight.
      > > >

      prometheus wrote:
      > > > Hello I Am, Non, and All,
      > > > I'm not so sure that humans
      > > > will ever become like, God,
      > > > our imagined or possible
      > > > creator. And, if at all, certainly
      > > > not in any lifetime soon.
      > > >
      > > > But, it could be that the
      > > > universe(s) just happened
      > > > and that the remnants of
      > > > other life forms were spread
      > > > to this planet, and others,
      > > > via space rubble... from
      > > > destroyed civilizations
      > > > and planets. Or, was it an
      > > > intentional seeding by an
      > > > advanced race... which was,
      > > > itself, seeded by another
      > > > advanced race etc.
      > > >
      > > > Maybe the "spiritual"
      > > > experiences we have
      > > > are the result of
      > > > interaction with the
      > > > quantum mechanical
      > > > field?
      > > >
      > > > Anyway, it seems to me
      > > > that what really matters
      > > > are relationships. It's our
      > > > relationships with others,
      > > > even strangers, that matter
      > > > most. This is how we really
      > > > learn and grow. Loving
      > > > relationships are valuable.
      > > >
      > > > Klemp, and others like
      > > > him, are: liars; posers;
      > > > have arrested development;
      > > > are sociopathic; narcissistic;
      > > > and are even psychopathic.
      > > > They are incapable of learning,
      > > > or caring about others (are
      > > > unloving) and attempt to
      > > > impede social progress and
      > > > justice. They use the rest of
      > > > us for their own personal
      > > > greed and selfish desires.
      > > >
      > > > Then, again, this strife and
      > > > uncertainly (stress) that is
      > > > created can make life interesting
      > > > and a challenge, although,
      > > > it can/will also be physically
      > > > and emotionally painful.
      > > >
      > > > But, having a regular life
      > > > without additional commitments
      > > > and involvements can also
      > > > offer rewarding experiences
      > > > and insights. We are never
      > > > all that alone. However, I'm
      > > > not sure how peace of any
      > > > sort (except in one's own mind)
      > > > will ever happen in a world
      > > > controlled by sociopaths.
      > > >
      > > > One must care about everyone
      > > > and have caring relationships
      > > > with people in order for humankind
      > > > to advance and survive. To me,
      > > > this is the "spiritual" key to life.
      > > > I almost included animals, too,
      > > > but since I'm not vegan I couldn't
      > > > include "caring" about them (all)
      > > > too.
      > > >
      > > > How can one really "care" about
      > > > the sociopaths and psychopaths
      > > > except to keep them away from
      > > > nice, loving and kind (normal?)
      > > > people.
      > > >
      > > > When one thinks about it the
      > > > definition of what's "normal"
      > > > keeps changing. The extroverts
      > > > seem to be more pathological
      > > > than the introverts don't you
      > > > agree? Yet, the extroverts try
      > > > to force us introverts to become
      > > > extroverted. Why is that? Misery
      > > > loves company I suppose or is
      > > > it that an army of glassy-eyed
      > > > introverts acting, as if, extroverted
      > > > is more intimidating.
      > > >
      > > > In any case the idea of a "God"
      > > > to worship and viewed as being
      > > > "involved" in our lives detracts
      > > > from "us" being involved in our
      > > > lives because of the differences
      > > > we see in one another. This is
      > > > why there are so many different
      > > > religious dogmas of what's right
      > > > and wrong.
      > > >
      > > > Therefore, the differences in the
      > > > way in which "God" is worshipped,
      > > > for me, shows that "God" does not
      > > > exist. We don't want to be alone
      > > > nor take responsibility for our own
      > > > actions. Thus, we blame God or
      > > > use God as our scape goat.
      > > >
      > > > There are major flaws with all
      > > > of these religions and the so-called
      > > > "source" of their scriptures. It's
      > > > all hearsay and the only thing
      > > > that, supposedly, gives them
      > > > validation is that these various
      > > > people in history/myth that the
      > > > scribes wrote about are claimed
      > > > to have said or done some nice,
      > > > inspirational, brave, or insightful
      > > > things a very long time ago. Age/
      > > > time (being ancient) seems to
      > > > have given them credibility, because
      > > > it is believed and taught that
      > > > only Divine Intercession could
      > > > have been the source for their
      > > > Divine Inspiration.
      > > >
      > > > But, IMO, there are many people,
      > > > today, who are not even followers
      > > > of these dogmas that are as, or
      > > > more: honest; brave; insightful;
      > > > inspirational; aware; and "spiritual"
      > > > than the prophets, saints, and founders
      > > > of these major and minor religions.
      > > > Many of these people inspired
      > > > others by never giving up in time
      > > > of conflict because, sometimes,
      > > > there weren't many other choices.
      > > > Even those who did give up and
      > > > had bad things befall them, still,
      > > > maintained their faith and this
      > > > fact turned them into "prophets"
      > > > or saints. If this is the standard
      > > > for religions there are an awful
      > > > lot of believers and faithful, today,
      > > > that just as deluded and desperate.
      > > >
      > > > Prometheus
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > iam999freedom" wrote:
      > > > Yes Non, combine authoritarianism
      > > > with unconditional love for the
      > > > master and you get a submissive
      > > > control pattern as your reward.
      > > > Buyer beware!
      > > >
      > > > Prometheus, you wrote:
      > > > "All of this, it seems, is simply
      > > > an experiment to see if we
      > > > are all capable of evolving
      > > > into our "spiritual" potential.
      > > > Are we to become more than
      > > > merely a divine thought?
      > > > Maybe there is something
      > > > more to that piece of a mirror
      > > > analogy."
    • Non
      Good points. I think what I had in the back of my mind was that there would probably be less of a pull toward Cults if people were kinder to themselves and to
      Message 2 of 29 , Jan 13, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        Good points. I think what I had in the back of my mind was that there would
        probably be less of a pull toward Cults if people were kinder to themselves and to each
        other. Unfortunately, ours is a very competitive society and the small talk
        doesn't get appreciated or is even ignored, but it is certainly worth the continued effort.

        Since I am not in the South, I did notice that quite often, when I was visiting
        a friend a several years a go, driving from Atlanta, Georgia to Sarasota,
        Florida, that people were much more willing to start a conversation, clerks,
        strangers, women smiling and so on. I was told that is "Southern Hospitality".
        (At the same time I was shocked to see a giant Confederate flag flying on the
        highway.) Where I live, that friendly attitude is not so common. But I will take
        your advise to heart and see if it makes a difference.

        Non ;)

        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" wrote:
        >
        > Hello Non and All,
        > Actually, having good
        > interactive relationships
        > with other people isn't
        > necessarily about making
        > new friends nor having
        > the same religious, political,
        > and lifestyle beliefs.
        > Trying to get others
        > to follow or accept our
        > beliefs isn't the goal.
        >
        > It's more about being
        > "friendly" to/with/for
        > others and, thus, to
        > ourselves. Usually, being
        > friendly and promoting
        > "friendship" (versus making
        > friends) isn't that hard
        > to accomplish. And, if
        > it is, we need to make
        > more of an effort and
        > figure out what it is that's
        > making this difficult.
        >
        > Smiles, politeness, sharing
        > some small talk, and recognizing
        > the other person by looking
        > directly at them goes a
        > long way.
        >
        > We can have a friendship
        > (i.e. relationship) with a
        > clerk whose full name we
        > might not ever know. It's
        > fun to simply, and naturally,
        > smile and be friendly to
        > strangers and acquaintances
        > without expecting anything
        > else. It takes the pressure
        > off everyone when we keep
        > it light. This lightness of
        > Being will help to improve
        > our lives and that of others.
        >
        > It's true that we will never
        > be able to be friendly with
        > some people. And, we won't
        > always be friends with those
        > people we know now. Some
        > people don't deserve our
        > efforts and will never deserve
        > it. They are enemies to what
        > we believe in.
        >
        > And, not all relationships
        > work out nor need to be
        > continued for the sake of
        > all those involved. Sometimes
        > people just have to let go
        > and move on even with
        > family members. But, these
        > are usually relationships
        > that have become complicated
        > via various factors and are
        > usually more one-sided
        > due to a lack of communication,
        > closed mindedness and
        > hurt feelings.
        >
        > Our positive relationships
        > with nature, to animals,
        > and to other people are
        > connections that make our
        > lives worth living.
        >
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > "Non" wrote:
        > Prometheus, I like what you said in a previous post on this thread that we need
        > to focus more on caring relationships with others, sometimes easier said than
        > done, cause a lot of people in our society are not that interested in making new
        > friends. Finding people who aren't interested in some new or old Dogma has it's
        > challenges as well. However, I have noticed that the demographic of unaffiliated
        > as far as religion may be growing. :)
        >
        > Non ;)
        >
        > "Non" wrote:
        > >
        > > Also, IMHO, it has to do with our woeful ability to care for our children, to
        > teach them kindness through example and compassion. Alice Miller has written a
        > lot about some of the worst in our history, like Hitler and Stalin and some
        > possible reasons for why they became the psychopathic leaders of what was
        > inexhaustible destruction. Some sociopaths, given the power and opportunity to
        > act without impunity will not stop and won't be reformed. Then again some may.
        > In the mean time, the best approach is to continue to speak out against them,
        > otherwise they will see their actions as unopposed and rationalized somehow as
        > even a twisted moral imperative.
        > >
        > > Though they may be damaged or even genetically bent in a certain malevolent
        > direction and they have not found in themselves a heart with empathy, at some
        > point they simply must be opposed at every possible way, even though it may seem
        > like a small intervention.
        > >
        > > Anyway, that's my one point of view for now. Recently, I've had several
        > situations that have really cautioned me about how some will intentionally con
        > and steal and lie in a very deliberate mix of what seems to be sincerity and
        > outright manipulation for their own personal gain. I have felt hurt and shocked
        > at the same time. I am learning that it is really a good idea to be vigilant,
        > and it is a balancing act of how to do this while still not closing off your own
        > heart and sense of kindness, which I think starts with yourself.
        > >
        > > Non ;)
        > >
        > Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
        > > >
        > Hi I am,
        > It is not that I feel tolerant of the sociopath but it seems inevitable that
        > we deal with them. I do believe they are those who haven't learned much yet.
        > So I feel like the best we can do is keep them from harming us as much as
        > possible and let them go on their way.
        > Thanks for your comments.
        > > >
        > I AM wrote:
        > > >
        > Thanks Prometheus for writing challenging angles to view life from. And
        > regardless of our origins it still seems to come down to finding and sharing
        > meaning, purpose, love, care etc. in our lives.
        > > >
        > > > Wow Janice your heart-felt expression of love for life and tolerance for the
        > sociopathically insane really touched me. I have a lot of learning to get to the
        > point that you expressed....very inspirational amd appreciated.
        > > >
        > > > I AM
        > > >
        > Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
        > > > >
        > Thank you Prometheus, I enjoyed your writing very much. The way I see
        > it when the bad guys do bad things and the sociopaths use it for their purposes,
        > there are always the good guys who step forth and do the right things. We
        > talked a lot about that school shooting recently and I believe that is a
        > happening that stunned us all. The senselessness of what happened is not
        > something a loving heart can even begin to understand. But there where
        > people there who gave their lives to protect helpless children. There were
        > people from all over the country who helped in anyway they could. That town
        > came together to support each other in an amazing way. Shared grief does
        > appear to make a lighter burden for the individual. So for me, I think there
        > is a kind of balance of good and evil even if it is the evil we hear the most
        > about. We hear so much of the bad it is hard to keep believing in the
        > good. But when people are hurt, there are always others
        > > > > who come forward and do what they can to give comfort and love. It
        > doesn't take the pain away but it shows those who are hurting that there is
        > still love in the world and no number of atrocities can destroy that
        > willingness to help others. Maybe part of growing is learning to discern the
        > motives of others and learning not to be taken in by sociopaths. Maybe part
        > of what we are here to do is to love against all odds when the media blasts us
        > everyday with horrible stories and tells us how close we are to being blown away
        > by foreign threats. Maybe what we are learning is that a loving heart is a
        > strong heart while those who usually do these horrible things are afraid and
        > broken inside. Maybe those sociopaths aren't the strongest either since it
        > takes so much energy just maintaining their facades that they don't really see
        > the precious things in life like those loving relationships you mentioned.
        > After all, most of them are so busy hiding their
        > > > > true selves they are obviously cowards. They don't live life, they
        > hide from life while trying to grab all they can for themselves. You got to
        > admit that life is full of smoke and mirrors and the real gems in life may not
        > sparkle like diamonds but do give off a quiet beauty that only those with the
        > knowledge to appreciate them can even see them. So I guess those sociopaths
        > have a lot of learning to do and a lot of growing to do before they can ever
        > even start to see a glint of beauty in life itself. When you love, your
        > heart can break but can you really say the love wasn't worth it? I would
        > rather know my heart will hurt than not to feel anything for others at all.
        > Strong loving hearts will mend but those shattered beings who harm and use
        > others haven't even begun the journey. Loving hearts can and will share the
        > pain. Eckankar doesn't do anything for anyone but eckankar. So what does
        > that say about the lem and the other leaders of eckankar? I'd say those they
        > use are closer to perfection than they can even see. Bless all the loving eckist
        > tonight.
        > > > >
        >
        > prometheus wrote:
        > > > > Hello I Am, Non, and All,
        > > > > I'm not so sure that humans
        > > > > will ever become like, God,
        > > > > our imagined or possible
        > > > > creator. And, if at all, certainly
        > > > > not in any lifetime soon.
        > > > >
        > > > > But, it could be that the
        > > > > universe(s) just happened
        > > > > and that the remnants of
        > > > > other life forms were spread
        > > > > to this planet, and others,
        > > > > via space rubble... from
        > > > > destroyed civilizations
        > > > > and planets. Or, was it an
        > > > > intentional seeding by an
        > > > > advanced race... which was,
        > > > > itself, seeded by another
        > > > > advanced race etc.
        > > > >
        > > > > Maybe the "spiritual"
        > > > > experiences we have
        > > > > are the result of
        > > > > interaction with the
        > > > > quantum mechanical
        > > > > field?
        > > > >
        > > > > Anyway, it seems to me
        > > > > that what really matters
        > > > > are relationships. It's our
        > > > > relationships with others,
        > > > > even strangers, that matter
        > > > > most. This is how we really
        > > > > learn and grow. Loving
        > > > > relationships are valuable.
        > > > >
        > > > > Klemp, and others like
        > > > > him, are: liars; posers;
        > > > > have arrested development;
        > > > > are sociopathic; narcissistic;
        > > > > and are even psychopathic.
        > > > > They are incapable of learning,
        > > > > or caring about others (are
        > > > > unloving) and attempt to
        > > > > impede social progress and
        > > > > justice. They use the rest of
        > > > > us for their own personal
        > > > > greed and selfish desires.
        > > > >
        > > > > Then, again, this strife and
        > > > > uncertainly (stress) that is
        > > > > created can make life interesting
        > > > > and a challenge, although,
        > > > > it can/will also be physically
        > > > > and emotionally painful.
        > > > >
        > > > > But, having a regular life
        > > > > without additional commitments
        > > > > and involvements can also
        > > > > offer rewarding experiences
        > > > > and insights. We are never
        > > > > all that alone. However, I'm
        > > > > not sure how peace of any
        > > > > sort (except in one's own mind)
        > > > > will ever happen in a world
        > > > > controlled by sociopaths.
        > > > >
        > > > > One must care about everyone
        > > > > and have caring relationships
        > > > > with people in order for humankind
        > > > > to advance and survive. To me,
        > > > > this is the "spiritual" key to life.
        > > > > I almost included animals, too,
        > > > > but since I'm not vegan I couldn't
        > > > > include "caring" about them (all)
        > > > > too.
        > > > >
        > > > > How can one really "care" about
        > > > > the sociopaths and psychopaths
        > > > > except to keep them away from
        > > > > nice, loving and kind (normal?)
        > > > > people.
        > > > >
        > > > > When one thinks about it the
        > > > > definition of what's "normal"
        > > > > keeps changing. The extroverts
        > > > > seem to be more pathological
        > > > > than the introverts don't you
        > > > > agree? Yet, the extroverts try
        > > > > to force us introverts to become
        > > > > extroverted. Why is that? Misery
        > > > > loves company I suppose or is
        > > > > it that an army of glassy-eyed
        > > > > introverts acting, as if, extroverted
        > > > > is more intimidating.
        > > > >
        > > > > In any case the idea of a "God"
        > > > > to worship and viewed as being
        > > > > "involved" in our lives detracts
        > > > > from "us" being involved in our
        > > > > lives because of the differences
        > > > > we see in one another. This is
        > > > > why there are so many different
        > > > > religious dogmas of what's right
        > > > > and wrong.
        > > > >
        > > > > Therefore, the differences in the
        > > > > way in which "God" is worshipped,
        > > > > for me, shows that "God" does not
        > > > > exist. We don't want to be alone
        > > > > nor take responsibility for our own
        > > > > actions. Thus, we blame God or
        > > > > use God as our scape goat.
        > > > >
        > > > > There are major flaws with all
        > > > > of these religions and the so-called
        > > > > "source" of their scriptures. It's
        > > > > all hearsay and the only thing
        > > > > that, supposedly, gives them
        > > > > validation is that these various
        > > > > people in history/myth that the
        > > > > scribes wrote about are claimed
        > > > > to have said or done some nice,
        > > > > inspirational, brave, or insightful
        > > > > things a very long time ago. Age/
        > > > > time (being ancient) seems to
        > > > > have given them credibility, because
        > > > > it is believed and taught that
        > > > > only Divine Intercession could
        > > > > have been the source for their
        > > > > Divine Inspiration.
        > > > >
        > > > > But, IMO, there are many people,
        > > > > today, who are not even followers
        > > > > of these dogmas that are as, or
        > > > > more: honest; brave; insightful;
        > > > > inspirational; aware; and "spiritual"
        > > > > than the prophets, saints, and founders
        > > > > of these major and minor religions.
        > > > > Many of these people inspired
        > > > > others by never giving up in time
        > > > > of conflict because, sometimes,
        > > > > there weren't many other choices.
        > > > > Even those who did give up and
        > > > > had bad things befall them, still,
        > > > > maintained their faith and this
        > > > > fact turned them into "prophets"
        > > > > or saints. If this is the standard
        > > > > for religions there are an awful
        > > > > lot of believers and faithful, today,
        > > > > that just as deluded and desperate.
        > > > >
        > > > > Prometheus
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > iam999freedom" wrote:
        > > > > Yes Non, combine authoritarianism
        > > > > with unconditional love for the
        > > > > master and you get a submissive
        > > > > control pattern as your reward.
        > > > > Buyer beware!
        > > > >
        > > > > Prometheus, you wrote:
        > > > > "All of this, it seems, is simply
        > > > > an experiment to see if we
        > > > > are all capable of evolving
        > > > > into our "spiritual" potential.
        > > > > Are we to become more than
        > > > > merely a divine thought?
        > > > > Maybe there is something
        > > > > more to that piece of a mirror
        > > > > analogy."
        >
      • prometheus_973
        Really! This is a valid spiritual technique that, unlike those HK hands out and sells, actually works: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVdKQ0I35qo
        Message 3 of 29 , Jan 18, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          Really! This is a valid spiritual
          technique that, unlike those
          HK hands out and sells, actually
          works:

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVdKQ0I35qo

          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Non" wrote:
          >
          > Good points. I think what I had in the back of my mind was that there would
          > probably be less of a pull toward Cults if people were kinder to themselves and to each
          > other. Unfortunately, ours is a very competitive society and the small talk
          > doesn't get appreciated or is even ignored, but it is certainly worth the continued effort.
          >
          > Since I am not in the South, I did notice that quite often, when I was visiting
          > a friend a several years a go, driving from Atlanta, Georgia to Sarasota,
          > Florida, that people were much more willing to start a conversation, clerks,
          > strangers, women smiling and so on. I was told that is "Southern Hospitality".
          > (At the same time I was shocked to see a giant Confederate flag flying on the
          > highway.) Where I live, that friendly attitude is not so common. But I will take
          > your advise to heart and see if it makes a difference.
          >
          > Non ;)
          >
          > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" wrote:
          > >
          > > Hello Non and All,
          > > Actually, having good
          > > interactive relationships
          > > with other people isn't
          > > necessarily about making
          > > new friends nor having
          > > the same religious, political,
          > > and lifestyle beliefs.
          > > Trying to get others
          > > to follow or accept our
          > > beliefs isn't the goal.
          > >
          > > It's more about being
          > > "friendly" to/with/for
          > > others and, thus, to
          > > ourselves. Usually, being
          > > friendly and promoting
          > > "friendship" (versus making
          > > friends) isn't that hard
          > > to accomplish. And, if
          > > it is, we need to make
          > > more of an effort and
          > > figure out what it is that's
          > > making this difficult.
          > >
          > > Smiles, politeness, sharing
          > > some small talk, and recognizing
          > > the other person by looking
          > > directly at them goes a
          > > long way.
          > >
          > > We can have a friendship
          > > (i.e. relationship) with a
          > > clerk whose full name we
          > > might not ever know. It's
          > > fun to simply, and naturally,
          > > smile and be friendly to
          > > strangers and acquaintances
          > > without expecting anything
          > > else. It takes the pressure
          > > off everyone when we keep
          > > it light. This lightness of
          > > Being will help to improve
          > > our lives and that of others.
          > >
          > > It's true that we will never
          > > be able to be friendly with
          > > some people. And, we won't
          > > always be friends with those
          > > people we know now. Some
          > > people don't deserve our
          > > efforts and will never deserve
          > > it. They are enemies to what
          > > we believe in.
          > >
          > > And, not all relationships
          > > work out nor need to be
          > > continued for the sake of
          > > all those involved. Sometimes
          > > people just have to let go
          > > and move on even with
          > > family members. But, these
          > > are usually relationships
          > > that have become complicated
          > > via various factors and are
          > > usually more one-sided
          > > due to a lack of communication,
          > > closed mindedness and
          > > hurt feelings.
          > >
          > > Our positive relationships
          > > with nature, to animals,
          > > and to other people are
          > > connections that make our
          > > lives worth living.
          > >
          > >
          > > Prometheus
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > "Non" wrote:
          > > Prometheus, I like what you said in a previous post on this thread that we need
          > > to focus more on caring relationships with others, sometimes easier said than
          > > done, cause a lot of people in our society are not that interested in making new
          > > friends. Finding people who aren't interested in some new or old Dogma has it's
          > > challenges as well. However, I have noticed that the demographic of unaffiliated
          > > as far as religion may be growing. :)
          > >
          > > Non ;)
          > >
          > > "Non" wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Also, IMHO, it has to do with our woeful ability to care for our children, to
          > > teach them kindness through example and compassion. Alice Miller has written a
          > > lot about some of the worst in our history, like Hitler and Stalin and some
          > > possible reasons for why they became the psychopathic leaders of what was
          > > inexhaustible destruction. Some sociopaths, given the power and opportunity to
          > > act without impunity will not stop and won't be reformed. Then again some may.
          > > In the mean time, the best approach is to continue to speak out against them,
          > > otherwise they will see their actions as unopposed and rationalized somehow as
          > > even a twisted moral imperative.
          > > >
          > > > Though they may be damaged or even genetically bent in a certain malevolent
          > > direction and they have not found in themselves a heart with empathy, at some
          > > point they simply must be opposed at every possible way, even though it may seem
          > > like a small intervention.
          > > >
          > > > Anyway, that's my one point of view for now. Recently, I've had several
          > > situations that have really cautioned me about how some will intentionally con
          > > and steal and lie in a very deliberate mix of what seems to be sincerity and
          > > outright manipulation for their own personal gain. I have felt hurt and shocked
          > > at the same time. I am learning that it is really a good idea to be vigilant,
          > > and it is a balancing act of how to do this while still not closing off your own
          > > heart and sense of kindness, which I think starts with yourself.
          > > >
          > > > Non ;)
          > > >
          > > Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
          > > > >
          > > Hi I am,
          > > It is not that I feel tolerant of the sociopath but it seems inevitable that
          > > we deal with them. I do believe they are those who haven't learned much yet.
          > > So I feel like the best we can do is keep them from harming us as much as
          > > possible and let them go on their way.
          > > Thanks for your comments.
          > > > >
          > > I AM wrote:
          > > > >
          > > Thanks Prometheus for writing challenging angles to view life from. And
          > > regardless of our origins it still seems to come down to finding and sharing
          > > meaning, purpose, love, care etc. in our lives.
          > > > >
          > > > > Wow Janice your heart-felt expression of love for life and tolerance for the
          > > sociopathically insane really touched me. I have a lot of learning to get to the
          > > point that you expressed....very inspirational amd appreciated.
          > > > >
          > > > > I AM
          > > > >
          > > Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
          > > > > >
          > > Thank you Prometheus, I enjoyed your writing very much. The way I see
          > > it when the bad guys do bad things and the sociopaths use it for their purposes,
          > > there are always the good guys who step forth and do the right things. We
          > > talked a lot about that school shooting recently and I believe that is a
          > > happening that stunned us all. The senselessness of what happened is not
          > > something a loving heart can even begin to understand. But there where
          > > people there who gave their lives to protect helpless children. There were
          > > people from all over the country who helped in anyway they could. That town
          > > came together to support each other in an amazing way. Shared grief does
          > > appear to make a lighter burden for the individual. So for me, I think there
          > > is a kind of balance of good and evil even if it is the evil we hear the most
          > > about. We hear so much of the bad it is hard to keep believing in the
          > > good. But when people are hurt, there are always others
          > > > > > who come forward and do what they can to give comfort and love. It
          > > doesn't take the pain away but it shows those who are hurting that there is
          > > still love in the world and no number of atrocities can destroy that
          > > willingness to help others. Maybe part of growing is learning to discern the
          > > motives of others and learning not to be taken in by sociopaths. Maybe part
          > > of what we are here to do is to love against all odds when the media blasts us
          > > everyday with horrible stories and tells us how close we are to being blown away
          > > by foreign threats. Maybe what we are learning is that a loving heart is a
          > > strong heart while those who usually do these horrible things are afraid and
          > > broken inside. Maybe those sociopaths aren't the strongest either since it
          > > takes so much energy just maintaining their facades that they don't really see
          > > the precious things in life like those loving relationships you mentioned.
          > > After all, most of them are so busy hiding their
          > > > > > true selves they are obviously cowards. They don't live life, they
          > > hide from life while trying to grab all they can for themselves. You got to
          > > admit that life is full of smoke and mirrors and the real gems in life may not
          > > sparkle like diamonds but do give off a quiet beauty that only those with the
          > > knowledge to appreciate them can even see them. So I guess those sociopaths
          > > have a lot of learning to do and a lot of growing to do before they can ever
          > > even start to see a glint of beauty in life itself. When you love, your
          > > heart can break but can you really say the love wasn't worth it? I would
          > > rather know my heart will hurt than not to feel anything for others at all.
          > > Strong loving hearts will mend but those shattered beings who harm and use
          > > others haven't even begun the journey. Loving hearts can and will share the
          > > pain. Eckankar doesn't do anything for anyone but eckankar. So what does
          > > that say about the lem and the other leaders of eckankar? I'd say those they
          > > use are closer to perfection than they can even see. Bless all the loving eckist
          > > tonight.
          > > > > >
          > >
          > > prometheus wrote:
          > > > > > Hello I Am, Non, and All,
          > > > > > I'm not so sure that humans
          > > > > > will ever become like, God,
          > > > > > our imagined or possible
          > > > > > creator. And, if at all, certainly
          > > > > > not in any lifetime soon.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > But, it could be that the
          > > > > > universe(s) just happened
          > > > > > and that the remnants of
          > > > > > other life forms were spread
          > > > > > to this planet, and others,
          > > > > > via space rubble... from
          > > > > > destroyed civilizations
          > > > > > and planets. Or, was it an
          > > > > > intentional seeding by an
          > > > > > advanced race... which was,
          > > > > > itself, seeded by another
          > > > > > advanced race etc.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Maybe the "spiritual"
          > > > > > experiences we have
          > > > > > are the result of
          > > > > > interaction with the
          > > > > > quantum mechanical
          > > > > > field?
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Anyway, it seems to me
          > > > > > that what really matters
          > > > > > are relationships. It's our
          > > > > > relationships with others,
          > > > > > even strangers, that matter
          > > > > > most. This is how we really
          > > > > > learn and grow. Loving
          > > > > > relationships are valuable.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Klemp, and others like
          > > > > > him, are: liars; posers;
          > > > > > have arrested development;
          > > > > > are sociopathic; narcissistic;
          > > > > > and are even psychopathic.
          > > > > > They are incapable of learning,
          > > > > > or caring about others (are
          > > > > > unloving) and attempt to
          > > > > > impede social progress and
          > > > > > justice. They use the rest of
          > > > > > us for their own personal
          > > > > > greed and selfish desires.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Then, again, this strife and
          > > > > > uncertainly (stress) that is
          > > > > > created can make life interesting
          > > > > > and a challenge, although,
          > > > > > it can/will also be physically
          > > > > > and emotionally painful.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > But, having a regular life
          > > > > > without additional commitments
          > > > > > and involvements can also
          > > > > > offer rewarding experiences
          > > > > > and insights. We are never
          > > > > > all that alone. However, I'm
          > > > > > not sure how peace of any
          > > > > > sort (except in one's own mind)
          > > > > > will ever happen in a world
          > > > > > controlled by sociopaths.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > One must care about everyone
          > > > > > and have caring relationships
          > > > > > with people in order for humankind
          > > > > > to advance and survive. To me,
          > > > > > this is the "spiritual" key to life.
          > > > > > I almost included animals, too,
          > > > > > but since I'm not vegan I couldn't
          > > > > > include "caring" about them (all)
          > > > > > too.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > How can one really "care" about
          > > > > > the sociopaths and psychopaths
          > > > > > except to keep them away from
          > > > > > nice, loving and kind (normal?)
          > > > > > people.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > When one thinks about it the
          > > > > > definition of what's "normal"
          > > > > > keeps changing. The extroverts
          > > > > > seem to be more pathological
          > > > > > than the introverts don't you
          > > > > > agree? Yet, the extroverts try
          > > > > > to force us introverts to become
          > > > > > extroverted. Why is that? Misery
          > > > > > loves company I suppose or is
          > > > > > it that an army of glassy-eyed
          > > > > > introverts acting, as if, extroverted
          > > > > > is more intimidating.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > In any case the idea of a "God"
          > > > > > to worship and viewed as being
          > > > > > "involved" in our lives detracts
          > > > > > from "us" being involved in our
          > > > > > lives because of the differences
          > > > > > we see in one another. This is
          > > > > > why there are so many different
          > > > > > religious dogmas of what's right
          > > > > > and wrong.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Therefore, the differences in the
          > > > > > way in which "God" is worshipped,
          > > > > > for me, shows that "God" does not
          > > > > > exist. We don't want to be alone
          > > > > > nor take responsibility for our own
          > > > > > actions. Thus, we blame God or
          > > > > > use God as our scape goat.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > There are major flaws with all
          > > > > > of these religions and the so-called
          > > > > > "source" of their scriptures. It's
          > > > > > all hearsay and the only thing
          > > > > > that, supposedly, gives them
          > > > > > validation is that these various
          > > > > > people in history/myth that the
          > > > > > scribes wrote about are claimed
          > > > > > to have said or done some nice,
          > > > > > inspirational, brave, or insightful
          > > > > > things a very long time ago. Age/
          > > > > > time (being ancient) seems to
          > > > > > have given them credibility, because
          > > > > > it is believed and taught that
          > > > > > only Divine Intercession could
          > > > > > have been the source for their
          > > > > > Divine Inspiration.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > But, IMO, there are many people,
          > > > > > today, who are not even followers
          > > > > > of these dogmas that are as, or
          > > > > > more: honest; brave; insightful;
          > > > > > inspirational; aware; and "spiritual"
          > > > > > than the prophets, saints, and founders
          > > > > > of these major and minor religions.
          > > > > > Many of these people inspired
          > > > > > others by never giving up in time
          > > > > > of conflict because, sometimes,
          > > > > > there weren't many other choices.
          > > > > > Even those who did give up and
          > > > > > had bad things befall them, still,
          > > > > > maintained their faith and this
          > > > > > fact turned them into "prophets"
          > > > > > or saints. If this is the standard
          > > > > > for religions there are an awful
          > > > > > lot of believers and faithful, today,
          > > > > > that just as deluded and desperate.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Prometheus
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > > iam999freedom" wrote:
          > > > > > Yes Non, combine authoritarianism
          > > > > > with unconditional love for the
          > > > > > master and you get a submissive
          > > > > > control pattern as your reward.
          > > > > > Buyer beware!
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Prometheus, you wrote:
          > > > > > "All of this, it seems, is simply
          > > > > > an experiment to see if we
          > > > > > are all capable of evolving
          > > > > > into our "spiritual" potential.
          > > > > > Are we to become more than
          > > > > > merely a divine thought?
          > > > > > Maybe there is something
          > > > > > more to that piece of a mirror
          > > > > > analogy."
          > >
          >
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