Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: It's So Sad About the Newtown, CT. Shootings

Expand Messages
  • Janice Pfeiffer
    Wow etznab, that s really deep.  Lots to think about.  ... From: etznab@aol.com Subject: Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: It s So Sad
    Message 1 of 17 , Dec 22, 2012
    • 0 Attachment
      Wow etznab, that's really deep.  Lots to think about. 

      --- On Tue, 12/18/12, etznab@... <etznab@...> wrote:

      From: etznab@... <etznab@...>
      Subject: Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: It's So Sad About the Newtown, CT. Shootings
      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Tuesday, December 18, 2012, 1:51 AM

       
      Here's an other thought. Maybe there is no distinction between God and
      Soul. That there are no Souls and no Gods. And that everything that
      exists, all individuals, are inherently nothing but the same ONE thing
      which, for some, is something they sacrifice by living under the
      illusion of being something less. In this case it is no less than "God"
      responsible for all good things and all evil things as a matter of
      individual choice.

      Is it really beyond the ONE existent reality to "limit itself"? Nature
      would seem to indicate otherwise.

      Yes this sounds like far out talk, but that is only the result of
      looking at it a particular way. What I am saying is that God can limit
      itself and not limit itself at the same time, because God - the true
      realization of it - exists as part of a realm devoid of time as we know
      it.

      Take human thoughts as an example of what I'm trying to get at. People
      can imagine limitation and even imagine being killed and being reborn.
      But when those are only thoughts it doesn't change the constitution and
      the makeup of the person having those thoughts. Like, I could imagine
      myself as an ant but that would only be an imagination and would not
      change the fact that I am human just having a thought of being an ant.
      So what is to say that God can't also imagine, or think, and in no way
      is God, or the ONE, changed by having thoughts.

      And then again, what is to say that people (in the greater scheme) are
      not really God identifying with creation to such an extent as to
      identify with the creation as opposed to the creator? After
      identification with creation is severed upon physical death, perhaps
      the realization of God increases and there might be something to the
      belief in various inner bodies and inner planes. If the individual
      believes and identifies with the creations there, as here.

      -----Original Message-----
      From: iam999freedom <iam999freedom@...>
      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
      <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Mon, Dec 17, 2012 7:26 pm
      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: It's So Sad About the
      Newtown, CT. Shootings

       
      Hi, there is an issue that keeps cropping up and troubles me when I
      think of the Newton shootings and all the other tragedies in this world.

      When God,(if there is such a being) created this world, It obviously
      knew of the negative choices that people would make like the Newtown
      shootings, murder, rape, incest, child prostitution, the list goes on
      and on. Human free choice and perhaps subsequent karma has been used to
      explain away God's responsibilty for these hideous events.

      However, if the director of a play (God) creates characters in the play
      (humans) that It knows will make negative choices (because that's one
      of the main ways a human learns) does that not make God at least
      indirectly responsible for these tragedies? Just a thought that leads
      me to thinks:
      1. Maybe God is not as Loving as we are lead to believe.
      2. I have trouble believing in or wanting to follow such a Being.

      Any thoughts from others?

      Sincerely,
      Freedom

      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer
      &lt;jepfeiffer@...&gt; wrote:
      &gt;
      &gt; Well I guess I can say one positive thing and I would think
      religious leaders would focus on that angle.
      &gt;  
      &gt; There were teachers and school officials who died shielding
      children from the gunman and some even met him face to face unarmed
      trying to deter him from killing those children.
      &gt;  
      &gt; To me that is supreme love.  They put their own safety aside to
      save the lives of the more frail little children.  No one could
      demonstrate more love than they in those terrifying conditions. 
      &gt;  
      &gt; Bless all those who has to face this tragedy and may they all one
      day find peace concerning it
      &gt;
      &gt; --- On Mon, 12/17/12, prometheus_973 &lt;prometheus_973@...&gt;
      wrote:
      &gt;
      &gt;
      &gt; From: prometheus_973 &lt;prometheus_973@...&gt;
      &gt; Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] It's So Sad About the
      Newtown, CT. Shootings
      &gt; To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      &gt; Date: Monday, December 17, 2012, 1:54 AM
      &gt;
      &gt;
      &gt;
      &gt;  
      &gt;
      &gt;
      &gt;
      &gt; Hello All,
      &gt; I've been watching the
      &gt; TV coverage of this tragedy
      &gt; for a few days now. It
      &gt; makes one wonder how
      &gt; a mentally deranged
      &gt; young man can do such
      &gt; evil and to such innocent
      &gt; children... face-to-face!
      &gt;
      &gt; However, I found the
      &gt; religious take on all
      &gt; of it to be quite strange.
      &gt; Some of the comments
      &gt; in the prayers of the
      &gt; ministers were odd.
      &gt;
      &gt; One cleric said that
      &gt; it happened in order
      &gt; to have people to
      &gt; question life and to
      &gt; be able to go through
      &gt; their own transformation.
      &gt; Thus, it's a test!
      &gt;
      &gt; One guy mentioned that
      &gt; the children would not
      &gt; have to experience sin.
      &gt;
      &gt; "After passion comes
      &gt; compassion."
      &gt;
      &gt; I'm not sure why people
      &gt; were praying to God and
      &gt; talking to or beseeching
      &gt; God when he didn't offer
      &gt; up any protection to these
      &gt; innocent children. But,
      &gt; are innocent children in
      &gt; other countries protected
      &gt; from harm? It's like how
      &gt; Klemp protects his eckists.
      &gt;
      &gt; The Governor of CT. sounded
      &gt; like Peter Sellers in "Being There"
      &gt; when talking about after Winter
      &gt; there will be Spring and growth.
      &gt;
      &gt; There is belief that a grander
      &gt; plan is afoot and that it won't
      &gt; be revealed until you can no
      &gt; longer speak and share and
      &gt; this gives those left hope that
      &gt; the promises will be fulfilled.
      &gt;
      &gt; I'm thinking that Eckists
      &gt; are probably sad, too, but
      &gt; also think that they see it
      &gt; as karma being karma and
      &gt; that there is no death.
      &gt;
      &gt; "What is seen is temporary
      &gt; but what is unseen is eternal."
      &gt;
      &gt; Do clerics merely repeat what
      &gt; we already know or is it merely
      &gt; a pep talk while reminding
      &gt; us of what we are supposed
      &gt; to believe? Or, do they see
      &gt; themselves as the experts
      &gt; who have memorized scripture,
      &gt; dress up in special garments,
      &gt; while we regular people are
      &gt; the ignorant sheep meant to
      &gt; blindly follow?
      &gt;
      &gt; It is interesting to see a
      &gt; commonality of sorts, but
      &gt; individual choice seems to
      &gt; take precedence as it always
      &gt; will.
      &gt;
      &gt; prometheus
      &gt;

    • harrisonferrel
      My thoughts on this? Much time is spent with suppositions. Does god exist? Most likely not. There is no evidence except what people rationalize is evidence. I
      Message 2 of 17 , Apr 4, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        My thoughts on this?

        Much time is spent with suppositions. Does god exist? Most likely not. There is no evidence except what people rationalize is evidence. I agree about the lack of logic and posit: If god is all knowing all seeing and all loving, then there is a huge problem. No evil or suffering would take place. Ever. I tend to agree with Christopher Hitchens that God is Not Great. God would have to be a psychopath to allow what goes on here. The only explanations as to why are merely rationalizations in fear of letting go of this primitive idea that has never been substantiated.

        I have no belief in god, karma, spirit, etc. And it feels good. I remain open minded but thus far cannot commit to ideas that are without basis. How does this make me feel? Free. God was invented by man. If you understand history you will see that the idea of god was an evolution and not an epiphany. It's a pretty weak and immature worldview that leads one to think that there is a force that guides everything and has some sort of intelligence. To paraphrase Sam Harris, Just because we don't know what the answer is does not mean that there is no answer. I would rather admit that I am ignorant or uninformed than to say there is a god or supernatural world.

        And, yes, I've had plenty of "experiences," but now I understand what they were and I cannot say they were anything otherworldly.


        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "iam999freedom" <iam999freedom@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi, there is an issue that keeps cropping up and troubles me when I think of the Newton shootings and all the other tragedies in this world.
        >
        > When God,(if there is such a being) created this world, It obviously knew of the negative choices that people would make like the Newtown shootings, murder, rape, incest, child prostitution, the list goes on and on. Human free choice and perhaps subsequent karma has been used to explain away God's responsibilty for these hideous events.
        >
        > However, if the director of a play (God) creates characters in the play (humans) that It knows will make negative choices (because that's one of the main ways a human learns) does that not make God at least indirectly responsible for these tragedies? Just a thought that leads me to thinks:
        > 1. Maybe God is not as Loving as we are lead to believe.
        > 2. I have trouble believing in or wanting to follow such a Being.
        >
        > Any thoughts from others?
        >
        > Sincerely,
        > Freedom
        >
        >
        > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer <jepfeiffer@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Well I guess I can say one positive thing and I would think religious leaders would focus on that angle.
        > >  
        > > There were teachers and school officials who died shielding children from the gunman and some even met him face to face unarmed trying to deter him from killing those children.
        > >  
        > > To me that is supreme love.  They put their own safety aside to save the lives of the more frail little children.  No one could demonstrate more love than they in those terrifying conditions. 
        > >  
        > > Bless all those who has to face this tragedy and may they all one day find peace concerning it
        > >
        > > --- On Mon, 12/17/12, prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@> wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > > From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@>
        > > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] It's So Sad About the Newtown, CT. Shootings
        > > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
        > > Date: Monday, December 17, 2012, 1:54 AM
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >  
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Hello All,
        > > I've been watching the
        > > TV coverage of this tragedy
        > > for a few days now. It
        > > makes one wonder how
        > > a mentally deranged
        > > young man can do such
        > > evil and to such innocent
        > > children... face-to-face!
        > >
        > > However, I found the
        > > religious take on all
        > > of it to be quite strange.
        > > Some of the comments
        > > in the prayers of the
        > > ministers were odd.
        > >
        > > One cleric said that
        > > it happened in order
        > > to have people to
        > > question life and to
        > > be able to go through
        > > their own transformation.
        > > Thus, it's a test!
        > >
        > > One guy mentioned that
        > > the children would not
        > > have to experience sin.
        > >
        > > "After passion comes
        > > compassion."
        > >
        > > I'm not sure why people
        > > were praying to God and
        > > talking to or beseeching
        > > God when he didn't offer
        > > up any protection to these
        > > innocent children. But,
        > > are innocent children in
        > > other countries protected
        > > from harm? It's like how
        > > Klemp protects his eckists.
        > >
        > > The Governor of CT. sounded
        > > like Peter Sellers in "Being There"
        > > when talking about after Winter
        > > there will be Spring and growth.
        > >
        > > There is belief that a grander
        > > plan is afoot and that it won't
        > > be revealed until you can no
        > > longer speak and share and
        > > this gives those left hope that
        > > the promises will be fulfilled.
        > >
        > > I'm thinking that Eckists
        > > are probably sad, too, but
        > > also think that they see it
        > > as karma being karma and
        > > that there is no death.
        > >
        > > "What is seen is temporary
        > > but what is unseen is eternal."
        > >
        > > Do clerics merely repeat what
        > > we already know or is it merely
        > > a pep talk while reminding
        > > us of what we are supposed
        > > to believe? Or, do they see
        > > themselves as the experts
        > > who have memorized scripture,
        > > dress up in special garments,
        > > while we regular people are
        > > the ignorant sheep meant to
        > > blindly follow?
        > >
        > > It is interesting to see a
        > > commonality of sorts, but
        > > individual choice seems to
        > > take precedence as it always
        > > will.
        > >
        > > prometheus
        > >
        >
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.