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Re: An article that mentions klemp

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello Harrison and All, Most Eck H.I.s are as two-faced as Klemp. One face is shown when in public and the other face is shown when doing EK business. I ve
    Message 1 of 11 , Dec 10, 2012
      Hello Harrison and All,
      Most Eck H.I.s are as
      two-faced as Klemp.
      One face is shown when
      in public and the other
      face is shown when
      doing EK business.

      I've angered other
      H.I.s so much (regarding
      EK business) that
      they've hung up on
      me! One was a RESA!
      I was the one frustrated
      with getting people
      (H.I.s) attuned to the
      programs or positions
      they had signed up
      for. The business side
      of Eckankar was very
      stressful, not fun, and
      was very unrewarding.

      So, being nice, for
      many H.I.s, is all an
      act. And most times
      the business side of
      Eckankar brings it out.
      Their angry and negative
      tendencies are merely
      denied, hidden, and
      swept under the rug
      "as if" it doesn't exist.
      Just put on a happy face!

      However, the biggest
      EK excuse is that the
      anger was "mocked up"
      in order to express
      a point or to better
      communicate with
      someone on a lower
      level of consciousness.
      I'm sure you wouldn't
      be surprised to know
      how often this excuse
      is used.

      Twitchell was good
      at making up excuses
      when questioned about
      contradictions of non-
      spiritual behaviour of
      his H.I.s such as anger.
      But, Twitchell was an
      expert liar, manipulator,
      and conman. He had
      to cover-up his own
      hypocrisy (as does Klemp)
      and that of his long-time
      followers with convincing
      rationalizations. EKists
      merely pretend, dream,
      deny the truth, and play
      the game of follow-the-
      leader.

      Prometheus

      harrisonferrel wrote:
      Your question: "My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so
      disturbing for you? Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling? Can you
      clarify for yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to
      you? "


      ANSWER: Through Eckankar I've met a number of people who talked about anger
      being an evil of sorts. This is a common thread among cults — to call someone
      angry. The idea is basically to keep people from getting angry at the nonsense
      you're peddling. Klemp and Twitchell talked about the evils of anger. The
      problem of course is that anger is a tool that any normal mind has; it motivates
      people to stand up for themselves and to oppose groups like eckankar that are
      trying to get away with injuring people.




      <harrisonferrel wrote:
      >
      > I would have to say that the opposite of fear is a lack of concern or even
      courage, but not anger. But I would agree that fear is a device used by klemp
      just as it is used by all religions to keep people in line and from challenging
      the leader.
      >
      > Anger isn't a bad thing and I remember hearing from eckists, including klemp
      and a current family member who is still in the cult, that anger is a weakness.
      Of course it makes sense that they would say this because it is our innate
      feeling of anger that drives us to resist the bullshit of the cult and its
      illogical, improbable and absurd notions.
      >
      Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
      > >
      > > Thanks for the article. The truth is Klemp can't conceive that any eckist
      would feel anger or at least not toward him or eckankar because after all how
      could they, since eckankar and the mahanta is the answer for everything in their
      lives. In eckankar anger is very wrong and is believed to show a lack of
      adjustment to the concepts of eckankar. It means you are not properly brain
      washed. While in, I think I felt more bewildered than angry.
      > >
      > > Klemp doesn't care that all of us who woke up from our eckankar induced
      stupor are angry about the lies and deceit because we are now considered
      unworthy misfits anyway. If I am remembering right, supposedly, according to
      eckankar, we are all damned for simply walking away and will have to
      re-ingratiate ourselves at some point with our present lem. Perish the
      thought!
      > >
      > > Fear is what eckankar uses to keep people from guestioning the lem or the
      operation of the org. Anger is the opposite of fear. So therefore, angry
      eckist would only be those who are ready to get out of eckankar. Of course
      that is undesirable in an eckist and one of the main reasons you aren't
      allowed to ask questions about why Paul lied and why they continue to lie to get
      new people in. I believe when you learn the truth about how eckankar was
      founded and how it operates, you come to a changing point. You either become
      self delusional to stay in or the lies drive you away.
      > >
      > > Instead of eckankar admitting that the lies are a problem, they label the
      ones who are offended by the lies as misfits. The whole concept is insane in
      itself for an org that talks so much about spiritual truth. How can you
      justify obviously lies and call it spiritual truth? That is what they do and
      if you don't buy it, you are of no use to them. You are not willing to deceive
      yourself for the sake of eckankar.
      > >
      > > My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so disturbing for
      you? Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling? Can you clarify for
      yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to you?
      > >
      > > The article speaks of how anger can be a good catalyst for needed change.
      I think that is the key to handling it well. Anger is something normal that we
      all feel. To say different would be a lie. I think when anger is acute, it
      shows a need to change whatever causes it whether it is a change in self or the
      external conditions that caused it. I believe that is what prompted most of us
      to get out of insane eckankar.
      > >
      > > You are as normal as anyone else with your anger. I hope you can clarify
      it and use it for your own good. You obviously are most intelligent and
      capable of handling it.
      > >
      > > With much high regards from another feeling eckist. good luck and please
      be kind to yourself.
      > >
      harrisonferrel wrote:
      > >

      > >
      > > Here's an article mentioning klemp and the anger nonsense he instills in
      people.
      > >
      http://moosebusiness.com/anger-doesnt-always-need-managing/
    • postekcon
      I consider anger to be one of the most important human traits, and one which separates us from the animal kingdom. Most folks are afraid of anger. They think
      Message 2 of 11 , Dec 10, 2012
        I consider 'anger' to be one of the most important human traits, and one which separates us from the animal kingdom. Most folks are afraid of anger. They think it just means hollering at your neighbor or life etc. But on a scale of one to ten, that's at the high end.

        Without anger, the human race would behave in zombie fashion, there would be no enterprise, no advancement, no athletes etc., no betterment in anything at all. I am not a medical person, but I know there there is a link between adrenaline and anger. The rising of adrenaline is linked to survival and 'get-up-and-go'. In humans anger is a natural emotional response which directly triggers adrenaline. I believe that without adrenaline there would be no human action for change or betterment etc.

        This is why in ekult 'anger' is incorrectly portrayed as an evil passion of the mind, and so much attention is put upon its natural suppression. Ekult's objective is to have passive zombie followers - and it works!
        -Postekcon


        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello Harrison and All,
        > Most Eck H.I.s are as
        > two-faced as Klemp.
        > One face is shown when
        > in public and the other
        > face is shown when
        > doing EK business.
        >
        > I've angered other
        > H.I.s so much (regarding
        > EK business) that
        > they've hung up on
        > me! One was a RESA!
        > I was the one frustrated
        > with getting people
        > (H.I.s) attuned to the
        > programs or positions
        > they had signed up
        > for. The business side
        > of Eckankar was very
        > stressful, not fun, and
        > was very unrewarding.
        >
        > So, being nice, for
        > many H.I.s, is all an
        > act. And most times
        > the business side of
        > Eckankar brings it out.
        > Their angry and negative
        > tendencies are merely
        > denied, hidden, and
        > swept under the rug
        > "as if" it doesn't exist.
        > Just put on a happy face!
        >
        > However, the biggest
        > EK excuse is that the
        > anger was "mocked up"
        > in order to express
        > a point or to better
        > communicate with
        > someone on a lower
        > level of consciousness.
        > I'm sure you wouldn't
        > be surprised to know
        > how often this excuse
        > is used.
        >
        > Twitchell was good
        > at making up excuses
        > when questioned about
        > contradictions of non-
        > spiritual behaviour of
        > his H.I.s such as anger.
        > But, Twitchell was an
        > expert liar, manipulator,
        > and conman. He had
        > to cover-up his own
        > hypocrisy (as does Klemp)
        > and that of his long-time
        > followers with convincing
        > rationalizations. EKists
        > merely pretend, dream,
        > deny the truth, and play
        > the game of follow-the-
        > leader.
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
        > harrisonferrel wrote:
        > Your question: "My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so
        > disturbing for you? Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling? Can you
        > clarify for yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to
        > you? "
        >
        >
        > ANSWER: Through Eckankar I've met a number of people who talked about anger
        > being an evil of sorts. This is a common thread among cults — to call someone
        > angry. The idea is basically to keep people from getting angry at the nonsense
        > you're peddling. Klemp and Twitchell talked about the evils of anger. The
        > problem of course is that anger is a tool that any normal mind has; it motivates
        > people to stand up for themselves and to oppose groups like eckankar that are
        > trying to get away with injuring people.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > <harrisonferrel wrote:
        > >
        > > I would have to say that the opposite of fear is a lack of concern or even
        > courage, but not anger. But I would agree that fear is a device used by klemp
        > just as it is used by all religions to keep people in line and from challenging
        > the leader.
        > >
        > > Anger isn't a bad thing and I remember hearing from eckists, including klemp
        > and a current family member who is still in the cult, that anger is a weakness.
        > Of course it makes sense that they would say this because it is our innate
        > feeling of anger that drives us to resist the bullshit of the cult and its
        > illogical, improbable and absurd notions.
        > >
        > Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Thanks for the article. The truth is Klemp can't conceive that any eckist
        > would feel anger or at least not toward him or eckankar because after all how
        > could they, since eckankar and the mahanta is the answer for everything in their
        > lives. In eckankar anger is very wrong and is believed to show a lack of
        > adjustment to the concepts of eckankar. It means you are not properly brain
        > washed. While in, I think I felt more bewildered than angry.
        > > >
        > > > Klemp doesn't care that all of us who woke up from our eckankar induced
        > stupor are angry about the lies and deceit because we are now considered
        > unworthy misfits anyway. If I am remembering right, supposedly, according to
        > eckankar, we are all damned for simply walking away and will have to
        > re-ingratiate ourselves at some point with our present lem. Perish the
        > thought!
        > > >
        > > > Fear is what eckankar uses to keep people from guestioning the lem or the
        > operation of the org. Anger is the opposite of fear. So therefore, angry
        > eckist would only be those who are ready to get out of eckankar. Of course
        > that is undesirable in an eckist and one of the main reasons you aren't
        > allowed to ask questions about why Paul lied and why they continue to lie to get
        > new people in. I believe when you learn the truth about how eckankar was
        > founded and how it operates, you come to a changing point. You either become
        > self delusional to stay in or the lies drive you away.
        > > >
        > > > Instead of eckankar admitting that the lies are a problem, they label the
        > ones who are offended by the lies as misfits. The whole concept is insane in
        > itself for an org that talks so much about spiritual truth. How can you
        > justify obviously lies and call it spiritual truth? That is what they do and
        > if you don't buy it, you are of no use to them. You are not willing to deceive
        > yourself for the sake of eckankar.
        > > >
        > > > My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so disturbing for
        > you? Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling? Can you clarify for
        > yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to you?
        > > >
        > > > The article speaks of how anger can be a good catalyst for needed change.
        > I think that is the key to handling it well. Anger is something normal that we
        > all feel. To say different would be a lie. I think when anger is acute, it
        > shows a need to change whatever causes it whether it is a change in self or the
        > external conditions that caused it. I believe that is what prompted most of us
        > to get out of insane eckankar.
        > > >
        > > > You are as normal as anyone else with your anger. I hope you can clarify
        > it and use it for your own good. You obviously are most intelligent and
        > capable of handling it.
        > > >
        > > > With much high regards from another feeling eckist. good luck and please
        > be kind to yourself.
        > > >
        > harrisonferrel wrote:
        > > >
        >
        > > >
        > > > Here's an article mentioning klemp and the anger nonsense he instills in
        > people.
        > > >
        > http://moosebusiness.com/anger-doesnt-always-need-managing/
        >
      • prometheus_973
        Hello Postekcon and All, I agree that anger is natural, and normal for humans to express and to feel. Controlling it is important, however, Eckankar is all
        Message 3 of 11 , Dec 10, 2012
          Hello Postekcon and All,
          I agree that anger is natural,
          and normal for humans
          to express and to feel.
          Controlling it is important,
          however, Eckankar is all
          about over control while
          denying feelings (emotions)
          and expressing them because
          these are of the Astral (2nd)
          Plane and that's bad. ECKists
          pretend they're not of
          the earth (physical) Plane.

          [How does that work with
          DNA and ancestry? Just
          ignore it right! I'll bet the
          EKists that get caught up
          with the ancestry thing
          don't get promoted if the
          RESA's spys hear about it
          and squeal on them. Soul
          has no DNA or ancestry
          that can be traced but
          through dreams, correct?
          And, Soul is neither male
          or female too, right?]

          Eckists need to believe
          that they're higher and
          more spiritually advanced
          than all others, but fail
          to realize that this is the
          same lie that all other
          religions tell their members.
          It's a trap for the ego.
          ECKists even have a scale
          with their so-called 'level"
          number printed upon
          a membership card that
          they paid for. That means
          it's all real and these guys
          are truly spiritual giants
          and highly evolved Souls.
          It's in print for God's sake!

          Honestly, would these
          nice and friendly EK people
          lie about all of this stuff?
          Klemp does that's for sure!
          Or, are these EKists as
          deluded as many Christians
          are and actually believe
          this crap? YES! ECKists are
          just as gullible and deluded
          with faith and belief as
          are Christians, Jews, Muslims,
          Mormons, Scientologists,
          etc.

          Prometheus


          postekcon wrote:
          I consider 'anger' to be one of the most important human traits, and one which
          separates us from the animal kingdom. Most folks are afraid of anger. They think
          it just means hollering at your neighbor or life etc. But on a scale of one to
          ten, that's at the high end.

          Without anger, the human race would behave in zombie fashion, there would be no
          enterprise, no advancement, no athletes etc., no betterment in anything at all.
          I am not a medical person, but I know there there is a link between adrenaline
          and anger. The rising of adrenaline is linked to survival and 'get-up-and-go'.
          In humans anger is a natural emotional response which directly triggers
          adrenaline. I believe that without adrenaline there would be no human action for
          change or betterment etc.

          This is why in ekult 'anger' is incorrectly portrayed as an evil passion of the
          mind, and so much attention is put upon its natural suppression. Ekult's
          objective is to have passive zombie followers - and it works!
          -Postekcon


          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
          <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello Harrison and All,
          > Most Eck H.I.s are as
          > two-faced as Klemp.
          > One face is shown when
          > in public and the other
          > face is shown when
          > doing EK business.
          >
          > I've angered other
          > H.I.s so much (regarding
          > EK business) that
          > they've hung up on
          > me! One was a RESA!
          > I was the one frustrated
          > with getting people
          > (H.I.s) attuned to the
          > programs or positions
          > they had signed up
          > for. The business side
          > of Eckankar was very
          > stressful, not fun, and
          > was very unrewarding.
          >
          > So, being nice, for
          > many H.I.s, is all an
          > act. And most times
          > the business side of
          > Eckankar brings it out.
          > Their angry and negative
          > tendencies are merely
          > denied, hidden, and
          > swept under the rug
          > "as if" it doesn't exist.
          > Just put on a happy face!
          >
          > However, the biggest
          > EK excuse is that the
          > anger was "mocked up"
          > in order to express
          > a point or to better
          > communicate with
          > someone on a lower
          > level of consciousness.
          > I'm sure you wouldn't
          > be surprised to know
          > how often this excuse
          > is used.
          >
          > Twitchell was good
          > at making up excuses
          > when questioned about
          > contradictions of non-
          > spiritual behaviour of
          > his H.I.s such as anger.
          > But, Twitchell was an
          > expert liar, manipulator,
          > and conman. He had
          > to cover-up his own
          > hypocrisy (as does Klemp)
          > and that of his long-time
          > followers with convincing
          > rationalizations. EKists
          > merely pretend, dream,
          > deny the truth, and play
          > the game of follow-the-
          > leader.
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
          > harrisonferrel wrote:
          > Your question: "My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so
          > disturbing for you? Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling? Can you
          > clarify for yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to
          > you? "
          >
          >
          > ANSWER: Through Eckankar I've met a number of people who talked about anger
          > being an evil of sorts. This is a common thread among cults — to call someone
          > angry. The idea is basically to keep people from getting angry at the nonsense
          > you're peddling. Klemp and Twitchell talked about the evils of anger. The
          > problem of course is that anger is a tool that any normal mind has; it
          motivates
          > people to stand up for themselves and to oppose groups like eckankar that are
          > trying to get away with injuring people.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > <harrisonferrel wrote:
          > >
          > > I would have to say that the opposite of fear is a lack of concern or even
          > courage, but not anger. But I would agree that fear is a device used by klemp
          > just as it is used by all religions to keep people in line and from
          challenging
          > the leader.
          > >
          > > Anger isn't a bad thing and I remember hearing from eckists, including klemp
          > and a current family member who is still in the cult, that anger is a
          weakness.
          > Of course it makes sense that they would say this because it is our innate
          > feeling of anger that drives us to resist the bullshit of the cult and its
          > illogical, improbable and absurd notions.
          > >
          > Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Thanks for the article. The truth is Klemp can't conceive that any eckist
          > would feel anger or at least not toward him or eckankar because after all how
          > could they, since eckankar and the mahanta is the answer for everything in
          their
          > lives. In eckankar anger is very wrong and is believed to show a lack of
          > adjustment to the concepts of eckankar. It means you are not properly brain
          > washed. While in, I think I felt more bewildered than angry.
          > > >
          > > > Klemp doesn't care that all of us who woke up from our eckankar induced
          > stupor are angry about the lies and deceit because we are now considered
          > unworthy misfits anyway. If I am remembering right, supposedly, according to
          > eckankar, we are all damned for simply walking away and will have to
          > re-ingratiate ourselves at some point with our present lem. Perish the
          > thought!
          > > >
          > > > Fear is what eckankar uses to keep people from guestioning the lem or the
          > operation of the org. Anger is the opposite of fear. So therefore, angry
          > eckist would only be those who are ready to get out of eckankar. Of course
          > that is undesirable in an eckist and one of the main reasons you aren't
          > allowed to ask questions about why Paul lied and why they continue to lie to
          get
          > new people in. I believe when you learn the truth about how eckankar was
          > founded and how it operates, you come to a changing point. You either become
          > self delusional to stay in or the lies drive you away.
          > > >
          > > > Instead of eckankar admitting that the lies are a problem, they label the
          > ones who are offended by the lies as misfits. The whole concept is insane in
          > itself for an org that talks so much about spiritual truth. How can you
          > justify obviously lies and call it spiritual truth? That is what they do and
          > if you don't buy it, you are of no use to them. You are not willing to
          deceive
          > yourself for the sake of eckankar.
          > > >
          > > > My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so disturbing for
          > you? Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling? Can you clarify for
          > yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to you?
          > > >
          > > > The article speaks of how anger can be a good catalyst for needed change.
          > I think that is the key to handling it well. Anger is something normal that
          we
          > all feel. To say different would be a lie. I think when anger is acute, it
          > shows a need to change whatever causes it whether it is a change in self or
          the
          > external conditions that caused it. I believe that is what prompted most of
          us
          > to get out of insane eckankar.
          > > >
          > > > You are as normal as anyone else with your anger. I hope you can clarify
          > it and use it for your own good. You obviously are most intelligent and
          > capable of handling it.
          > > >
          > > > With much high regards from another feeling eckist. good luck and please
          > be kind to yourself.
          > > >
          > harrisonferrel wrote:
          > > >
          >
          > > >
          > > > Here's an article mentioning klemp and the anger nonsense he instills in
          > people.
          > > >
          > http://moosebusiness.com/anger-doesnt-always-need-managing/
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