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Re: An article that mentions klemp

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  • harrisonferrel
    Your question: My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so disturbing for you? Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling? Can you
    Message 1 of 11 , Dec 10, 2012
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      Your question: "My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so disturbing for you? Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling? Can you clarify for yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to you? "


      ANSWER: Through Eckankar I've met a number of people who talked about anger being an evil of sorts. This is a common thread among cults — to call someone angry. The idea is basically to keep people from getting angry at the nonsense you're peddling. Klemp and Twitchell talked about the evils of anger. The problem of course is that anger is a tool that any normal mind has; it motivates people to stand up for themselves and to oppose groups like eckankar that are trying to get away with injuring people.



      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "harrisonferrel" <harrisonferrel@...> wrote:
      >
      > I would have to say that the opposite of fear is a lack of concern or even courage, but not anger. But I would agree that fear is a device used by klemp just as it is used by all religions to keep people in line and from challenging the leader.
      >
      > Anger isn't a bad thing and I remember hearing from eckists, including klemp and a current family member who is still in the cult, that anger is a weakness. Of course it makes sense that they would say this because it is our innate feeling of anger that drives us to resist the bullshit of the cult and its illogical, improbable and absurd notions.
      >
      > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer <jepfeiffer@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Thanks for the article.  The truth is Klemp can't conceive that any eckist would feel anger or at least not toward him or eckankar because after all how could they, since eckankar and the mahanta is the answer for everything in their lives.  In eckankar anger is very wrong and is believed to show a lack of adjustment to the concepts of eckankar.  It means you are not properly brain washed.  While in, I think I felt more bewildered than angry.
      > >  
      > > Klemp doesn't care that all of us who woke up from our eckankar induced stupor are angry about the lies and deceit because we are now considered unworthy misfits anyway.  If I am remembering right, supposedly, according to eckankar, we are all damned for simply walking away and will have to re-ingratiate ourselves at some point with our present lem.  Perish the thought! 
      > >  
      > > Fear is what eckankar uses to keep people from guestioning the lem or the operation of the org.  Anger is the opposite of fear.  So therefore, angry eckist would only be those who are ready to get out of eckankar.   Of course that is undesirable in an eckist and  one of the main reasons you aren't allowed to ask questions about why Paul lied and why they continue to lie to get new people in.  I believe when you learn the truth about how eckankar was founded and how it operates, you come to a changing point.  You either become self delusional to stay in or the lies drive you away.
      > >  
      > > Instead of eckankar admitting that the lies are a problem, they label the ones who are offended by the lies as misfits.  The whole concept is insane in itself for an org that talks so much about spiritual truth.  How can you justify obviously lies and call it spiritual truth?  That is what they do and if you don't buy it, you are of no use to them.  You are not willing to deceive yourself for the sake of eckankar. 
      > >  
      > > My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so disturbing for you?  Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling?  Can you clarify for yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to you? 
      > >  
      > > The article speaks of how anger can be a good catalyst for needed change.  I think that is the key to handling it well.  Anger is something normal that we all feel.  To say different would be a lie.  I think when anger is acute, it shows a need to change whatever causes it whether it is a change in self or the external conditions that caused it.  I believe that is what prompted most of us to get out of insane eckankar. 
      > >  
      > > You are as normal as anyone else with your anger.  I hope you can clarify it and use it for your own good.  You obviously are most intelligent and capable of handling it.
      > >  
      > > With much high regards from another feeling eckist.  good luck and please be kind to yourself. 
      > >
      > > --- On Sat, 11/10/12, harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@> wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > From: harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@>
      > > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] An article that mentions klemp
      > > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      > > Date: Saturday, November 10, 2012, 7:26 PM
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >  
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Here's an article mentioning klemp and the anger nonsense he instills in people.
      > >
      > > http://moosebusiness.com/anger-doesnt-always-need-managing/
      > >
      >
    • prometheus_973
      Hello Harrison and All, Most Eck H.I.s are as two-faced as Klemp. One face is shown when in public and the other face is shown when doing EK business. I ve
      Message 2 of 11 , Dec 10, 2012
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        Hello Harrison and All,
        Most Eck H.I.s are as
        two-faced as Klemp.
        One face is shown when
        in public and the other
        face is shown when
        doing EK business.

        I've angered other
        H.I.s so much (regarding
        EK business) that
        they've hung up on
        me! One was a RESA!
        I was the one frustrated
        with getting people
        (H.I.s) attuned to the
        programs or positions
        they had signed up
        for. The business side
        of Eckankar was very
        stressful, not fun, and
        was very unrewarding.

        So, being nice, for
        many H.I.s, is all an
        act. And most times
        the business side of
        Eckankar brings it out.
        Their angry and negative
        tendencies are merely
        denied, hidden, and
        swept under the rug
        "as if" it doesn't exist.
        Just put on a happy face!

        However, the biggest
        EK excuse is that the
        anger was "mocked up"
        in order to express
        a point or to better
        communicate with
        someone on a lower
        level of consciousness.
        I'm sure you wouldn't
        be surprised to know
        how often this excuse
        is used.

        Twitchell was good
        at making up excuses
        when questioned about
        contradictions of non-
        spiritual behaviour of
        his H.I.s such as anger.
        But, Twitchell was an
        expert liar, manipulator,
        and conman. He had
        to cover-up his own
        hypocrisy (as does Klemp)
        and that of his long-time
        followers with convincing
        rationalizations. EKists
        merely pretend, dream,
        deny the truth, and play
        the game of follow-the-
        leader.

        Prometheus

        harrisonferrel wrote:
        Your question: "My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so
        disturbing for you? Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling? Can you
        clarify for yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to
        you? "


        ANSWER: Through Eckankar I've met a number of people who talked about anger
        being an evil of sorts. This is a common thread among cults — to call someone
        angry. The idea is basically to keep people from getting angry at the nonsense
        you're peddling. Klemp and Twitchell talked about the evils of anger. The
        problem of course is that anger is a tool that any normal mind has; it motivates
        people to stand up for themselves and to oppose groups like eckankar that are
        trying to get away with injuring people.




        <harrisonferrel wrote:
        >
        > I would have to say that the opposite of fear is a lack of concern or even
        courage, but not anger. But I would agree that fear is a device used by klemp
        just as it is used by all religions to keep people in line and from challenging
        the leader.
        >
        > Anger isn't a bad thing and I remember hearing from eckists, including klemp
        and a current family member who is still in the cult, that anger is a weakness.
        Of course it makes sense that they would say this because it is our innate
        feeling of anger that drives us to resist the bullshit of the cult and its
        illogical, improbable and absurd notions.
        >
        Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
        > >
        > > Thanks for the article. The truth is Klemp can't conceive that any eckist
        would feel anger or at least not toward him or eckankar because after all how
        could they, since eckankar and the mahanta is the answer for everything in their
        lives. In eckankar anger is very wrong and is believed to show a lack of
        adjustment to the concepts of eckankar. It means you are not properly brain
        washed. While in, I think I felt more bewildered than angry.
        > >
        > > Klemp doesn't care that all of us who woke up from our eckankar induced
        stupor are angry about the lies and deceit because we are now considered
        unworthy misfits anyway. If I am remembering right, supposedly, according to
        eckankar, we are all damned for simply walking away and will have to
        re-ingratiate ourselves at some point with our present lem. Perish the
        thought!
        > >
        > > Fear is what eckankar uses to keep people from guestioning the lem or the
        operation of the org. Anger is the opposite of fear. So therefore, angry
        eckist would only be those who are ready to get out of eckankar. Of course
        that is undesirable in an eckist and one of the main reasons you aren't
        allowed to ask questions about why Paul lied and why they continue to lie to get
        new people in. I believe when you learn the truth about how eckankar was
        founded and how it operates, you come to a changing point. You either become
        self delusional to stay in or the lies drive you away.
        > >
        > > Instead of eckankar admitting that the lies are a problem, they label the
        ones who are offended by the lies as misfits. The whole concept is insane in
        itself for an org that talks so much about spiritual truth. How can you
        justify obviously lies and call it spiritual truth? That is what they do and
        if you don't buy it, you are of no use to them. You are not willing to deceive
        yourself for the sake of eckankar.
        > >
        > > My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so disturbing for
        you? Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling? Can you clarify for
        yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to you?
        > >
        > > The article speaks of how anger can be a good catalyst for needed change.
        I think that is the key to handling it well. Anger is something normal that we
        all feel. To say different would be a lie. I think when anger is acute, it
        shows a need to change whatever causes it whether it is a change in self or the
        external conditions that caused it. I believe that is what prompted most of us
        to get out of insane eckankar.
        > >
        > > You are as normal as anyone else with your anger. I hope you can clarify
        it and use it for your own good. You obviously are most intelligent and
        capable of handling it.
        > >
        > > With much high regards from another feeling eckist. good luck and please
        be kind to yourself.
        > >
        harrisonferrel wrote:
        > >

        > >
        > > Here's an article mentioning klemp and the anger nonsense he instills in
        people.
        > >
        http://moosebusiness.com/anger-doesnt-always-need-managing/
      • postekcon
        I consider anger to be one of the most important human traits, and one which separates us from the animal kingdom. Most folks are afraid of anger. They think
        Message 3 of 11 , Dec 10, 2012
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          I consider 'anger' to be one of the most important human traits, and one which separates us from the animal kingdom. Most folks are afraid of anger. They think it just means hollering at your neighbor or life etc. But on a scale of one to ten, that's at the high end.

          Without anger, the human race would behave in zombie fashion, there would be no enterprise, no advancement, no athletes etc., no betterment in anything at all. I am not a medical person, but I know there there is a link between adrenaline and anger. The rising of adrenaline is linked to survival and 'get-up-and-go'. In humans anger is a natural emotional response which directly triggers adrenaline. I believe that without adrenaline there would be no human action for change or betterment etc.

          This is why in ekult 'anger' is incorrectly portrayed as an evil passion of the mind, and so much attention is put upon its natural suppression. Ekult's objective is to have passive zombie followers - and it works!
          -Postekcon


          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello Harrison and All,
          > Most Eck H.I.s are as
          > two-faced as Klemp.
          > One face is shown when
          > in public and the other
          > face is shown when
          > doing EK business.
          >
          > I've angered other
          > H.I.s so much (regarding
          > EK business) that
          > they've hung up on
          > me! One was a RESA!
          > I was the one frustrated
          > with getting people
          > (H.I.s) attuned to the
          > programs or positions
          > they had signed up
          > for. The business side
          > of Eckankar was very
          > stressful, not fun, and
          > was very unrewarding.
          >
          > So, being nice, for
          > many H.I.s, is all an
          > act. And most times
          > the business side of
          > Eckankar brings it out.
          > Their angry and negative
          > tendencies are merely
          > denied, hidden, and
          > swept under the rug
          > "as if" it doesn't exist.
          > Just put on a happy face!
          >
          > However, the biggest
          > EK excuse is that the
          > anger was "mocked up"
          > in order to express
          > a point or to better
          > communicate with
          > someone on a lower
          > level of consciousness.
          > I'm sure you wouldn't
          > be surprised to know
          > how often this excuse
          > is used.
          >
          > Twitchell was good
          > at making up excuses
          > when questioned about
          > contradictions of non-
          > spiritual behaviour of
          > his H.I.s such as anger.
          > But, Twitchell was an
          > expert liar, manipulator,
          > and conman. He had
          > to cover-up his own
          > hypocrisy (as does Klemp)
          > and that of his long-time
          > followers with convincing
          > rationalizations. EKists
          > merely pretend, dream,
          > deny the truth, and play
          > the game of follow-the-
          > leader.
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
          > harrisonferrel wrote:
          > Your question: "My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so
          > disturbing for you? Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling? Can you
          > clarify for yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to
          > you? "
          >
          >
          > ANSWER: Through Eckankar I've met a number of people who talked about anger
          > being an evil of sorts. This is a common thread among cults — to call someone
          > angry. The idea is basically to keep people from getting angry at the nonsense
          > you're peddling. Klemp and Twitchell talked about the evils of anger. The
          > problem of course is that anger is a tool that any normal mind has; it motivates
          > people to stand up for themselves and to oppose groups like eckankar that are
          > trying to get away with injuring people.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > <harrisonferrel wrote:
          > >
          > > I would have to say that the opposite of fear is a lack of concern or even
          > courage, but not anger. But I would agree that fear is a device used by klemp
          > just as it is used by all religions to keep people in line and from challenging
          > the leader.
          > >
          > > Anger isn't a bad thing and I remember hearing from eckists, including klemp
          > and a current family member who is still in the cult, that anger is a weakness.
          > Of course it makes sense that they would say this because it is our innate
          > feeling of anger that drives us to resist the bullshit of the cult and its
          > illogical, improbable and absurd notions.
          > >
          > Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Thanks for the article. The truth is Klemp can't conceive that any eckist
          > would feel anger or at least not toward him or eckankar because after all how
          > could they, since eckankar and the mahanta is the answer for everything in their
          > lives. In eckankar anger is very wrong and is believed to show a lack of
          > adjustment to the concepts of eckankar. It means you are not properly brain
          > washed. While in, I think I felt more bewildered than angry.
          > > >
          > > > Klemp doesn't care that all of us who woke up from our eckankar induced
          > stupor are angry about the lies and deceit because we are now considered
          > unworthy misfits anyway. If I am remembering right, supposedly, according to
          > eckankar, we are all damned for simply walking away and will have to
          > re-ingratiate ourselves at some point with our present lem. Perish the
          > thought!
          > > >
          > > > Fear is what eckankar uses to keep people from guestioning the lem or the
          > operation of the org. Anger is the opposite of fear. So therefore, angry
          > eckist would only be those who are ready to get out of eckankar. Of course
          > that is undesirable in an eckist and one of the main reasons you aren't
          > allowed to ask questions about why Paul lied and why they continue to lie to get
          > new people in. I believe when you learn the truth about how eckankar was
          > founded and how it operates, you come to a changing point. You either become
          > self delusional to stay in or the lies drive you away.
          > > >
          > > > Instead of eckankar admitting that the lies are a problem, they label the
          > ones who are offended by the lies as misfits. The whole concept is insane in
          > itself for an org that talks so much about spiritual truth. How can you
          > justify obviously lies and call it spiritual truth? That is what they do and
          > if you don't buy it, you are of no use to them. You are not willing to deceive
          > yourself for the sake of eckankar.
          > > >
          > > > My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so disturbing for
          > you? Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling? Can you clarify for
          > yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to you?
          > > >
          > > > The article speaks of how anger can be a good catalyst for needed change.
          > I think that is the key to handling it well. Anger is something normal that we
          > all feel. To say different would be a lie. I think when anger is acute, it
          > shows a need to change whatever causes it whether it is a change in self or the
          > external conditions that caused it. I believe that is what prompted most of us
          > to get out of insane eckankar.
          > > >
          > > > You are as normal as anyone else with your anger. I hope you can clarify
          > it and use it for your own good. You obviously are most intelligent and
          > capable of handling it.
          > > >
          > > > With much high regards from another feeling eckist. good luck and please
          > be kind to yourself.
          > > >
          > harrisonferrel wrote:
          > > >
          >
          > > >
          > > > Here's an article mentioning klemp and the anger nonsense he instills in
          > people.
          > > >
          > http://moosebusiness.com/anger-doesnt-always-need-managing/
          >
        • prometheus_973
          Hello Postekcon and All, I agree that anger is natural, and normal for humans to express and to feel. Controlling it is important, however, Eckankar is all
          Message 4 of 11 , Dec 10, 2012
          • 0 Attachment
            Hello Postekcon and All,
            I agree that anger is natural,
            and normal for humans
            to express and to feel.
            Controlling it is important,
            however, Eckankar is all
            about over control while
            denying feelings (emotions)
            and expressing them because
            these are of the Astral (2nd)
            Plane and that's bad. ECKists
            pretend they're not of
            the earth (physical) Plane.

            [How does that work with
            DNA and ancestry? Just
            ignore it right! I'll bet the
            EKists that get caught up
            with the ancestry thing
            don't get promoted if the
            RESA's spys hear about it
            and squeal on them. Soul
            has no DNA or ancestry
            that can be traced but
            through dreams, correct?
            And, Soul is neither male
            or female too, right?]

            Eckists need to believe
            that they're higher and
            more spiritually advanced
            than all others, but fail
            to realize that this is the
            same lie that all other
            religions tell their members.
            It's a trap for the ego.
            ECKists even have a scale
            with their so-called 'level"
            number printed upon
            a membership card that
            they paid for. That means
            it's all real and these guys
            are truly spiritual giants
            and highly evolved Souls.
            It's in print for God's sake!

            Honestly, would these
            nice and friendly EK people
            lie about all of this stuff?
            Klemp does that's for sure!
            Or, are these EKists as
            deluded as many Christians
            are and actually believe
            this crap? YES! ECKists are
            just as gullible and deluded
            with faith and belief as
            are Christians, Jews, Muslims,
            Mormons, Scientologists,
            etc.

            Prometheus


            postekcon wrote:
            I consider 'anger' to be one of the most important human traits, and one which
            separates us from the animal kingdom. Most folks are afraid of anger. They think
            it just means hollering at your neighbor or life etc. But on a scale of one to
            ten, that's at the high end.

            Without anger, the human race would behave in zombie fashion, there would be no
            enterprise, no advancement, no athletes etc., no betterment in anything at all.
            I am not a medical person, but I know there there is a link between adrenaline
            and anger. The rising of adrenaline is linked to survival and 'get-up-and-go'.
            In humans anger is a natural emotional response which directly triggers
            adrenaline. I believe that without adrenaline there would be no human action for
            change or betterment etc.

            This is why in ekult 'anger' is incorrectly portrayed as an evil passion of the
            mind, and so much attention is put upon its natural suppression. Ekult's
            objective is to have passive zombie followers - and it works!
            -Postekcon


            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
            <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hello Harrison and All,
            > Most Eck H.I.s are as
            > two-faced as Klemp.
            > One face is shown when
            > in public and the other
            > face is shown when
            > doing EK business.
            >
            > I've angered other
            > H.I.s so much (regarding
            > EK business) that
            > they've hung up on
            > me! One was a RESA!
            > I was the one frustrated
            > with getting people
            > (H.I.s) attuned to the
            > programs or positions
            > they had signed up
            > for. The business side
            > of Eckankar was very
            > stressful, not fun, and
            > was very unrewarding.
            >
            > So, being nice, for
            > many H.I.s, is all an
            > act. And most times
            > the business side of
            > Eckankar brings it out.
            > Their angry and negative
            > tendencies are merely
            > denied, hidden, and
            > swept under the rug
            > "as if" it doesn't exist.
            > Just put on a happy face!
            >
            > However, the biggest
            > EK excuse is that the
            > anger was "mocked up"
            > in order to express
            > a point or to better
            > communicate with
            > someone on a lower
            > level of consciousness.
            > I'm sure you wouldn't
            > be surprised to know
            > how often this excuse
            > is used.
            >
            > Twitchell was good
            > at making up excuses
            > when questioned about
            > contradictions of non-
            > spiritual behaviour of
            > his H.I.s such as anger.
            > But, Twitchell was an
            > expert liar, manipulator,
            > and conman. He had
            > to cover-up his own
            > hypocrisy (as does Klemp)
            > and that of his long-time
            > followers with convincing
            > rationalizations. EKists
            > merely pretend, dream,
            > deny the truth, and play
            > the game of follow-the-
            > leader.
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            > harrisonferrel wrote:
            > Your question: "My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so
            > disturbing for you? Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling? Can you
            > clarify for yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to
            > you? "
            >
            >
            > ANSWER: Through Eckankar I've met a number of people who talked about anger
            > being an evil of sorts. This is a common thread among cults — to call someone
            > angry. The idea is basically to keep people from getting angry at the nonsense
            > you're peddling. Klemp and Twitchell talked about the evils of anger. The
            > problem of course is that anger is a tool that any normal mind has; it
            motivates
            > people to stand up for themselves and to oppose groups like eckankar that are
            > trying to get away with injuring people.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > <harrisonferrel wrote:
            > >
            > > I would have to say that the opposite of fear is a lack of concern or even
            > courage, but not anger. But I would agree that fear is a device used by klemp
            > just as it is used by all religions to keep people in line and from
            challenging
            > the leader.
            > >
            > > Anger isn't a bad thing and I remember hearing from eckists, including klemp
            > and a current family member who is still in the cult, that anger is a
            weakness.
            > Of course it makes sense that they would say this because it is our innate
            > feeling of anger that drives us to resist the bullshit of the cult and its
            > illogical, improbable and absurd notions.
            > >
            > Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Thanks for the article. The truth is Klemp can't conceive that any eckist
            > would feel anger or at least not toward him or eckankar because after all how
            > could they, since eckankar and the mahanta is the answer for everything in
            their
            > lives. In eckankar anger is very wrong and is believed to show a lack of
            > adjustment to the concepts of eckankar. It means you are not properly brain
            > washed. While in, I think I felt more bewildered than angry.
            > > >
            > > > Klemp doesn't care that all of us who woke up from our eckankar induced
            > stupor are angry about the lies and deceit because we are now considered
            > unworthy misfits anyway. If I am remembering right, supposedly, according to
            > eckankar, we are all damned for simply walking away and will have to
            > re-ingratiate ourselves at some point with our present lem. Perish the
            > thought!
            > > >
            > > > Fear is what eckankar uses to keep people from guestioning the lem or the
            > operation of the org. Anger is the opposite of fear. So therefore, angry
            > eckist would only be those who are ready to get out of eckankar. Of course
            > that is undesirable in an eckist and one of the main reasons you aren't
            > allowed to ask questions about why Paul lied and why they continue to lie to
            get
            > new people in. I believe when you learn the truth about how eckankar was
            > founded and how it operates, you come to a changing point. You either become
            > self delusional to stay in or the lies drive you away.
            > > >
            > > > Instead of eckankar admitting that the lies are a problem, they label the
            > ones who are offended by the lies as misfits. The whole concept is insane in
            > itself for an org that talks so much about spiritual truth. How can you
            > justify obviously lies and call it spiritual truth? That is what they do and
            > if you don't buy it, you are of no use to them. You are not willing to
            deceive
            > yourself for the sake of eckankar.
            > > >
            > > > My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so disturbing for
            > you? Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling? Can you clarify for
            > yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to you?
            > > >
            > > > The article speaks of how anger can be a good catalyst for needed change.
            > I think that is the key to handling it well. Anger is something normal that
            we
            > all feel. To say different would be a lie. I think when anger is acute, it
            > shows a need to change whatever causes it whether it is a change in self or
            the
            > external conditions that caused it. I believe that is what prompted most of
            us
            > to get out of insane eckankar.
            > > >
            > > > You are as normal as anyone else with your anger. I hope you can clarify
            > it and use it for your own good. You obviously are most intelligent and
            > capable of handling it.
            > > >
            > > > With much high regards from another feeling eckist. good luck and please
            > be kind to yourself.
            > > >
            > harrisonferrel wrote:
            > > >
            >
            > > >
            > > > Here's an article mentioning klemp and the anger nonsense he instills in
            > people.
            > > >
            > http://moosebusiness.com/anger-doesnt-always-need-managing/
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