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Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the Sound Current?

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  • Janice Pfeiffer
    I can t view the concept of a soulmate being two parts of a whole no matter where it comes from.  I don t believe any of us are half of a whole.  Maybe Paul
    Message 1 of 22 , Dec 9, 2012
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      I can't view the concept of a soulmate being two parts of a whole no matter where it comes from.  I don't believe any of us are half of a whole.  Maybe Paul needed that concept as a reason for why he fell for Gail. 

      --- On Sat, 12/8/12, etznab18 <etznab@...> wrote:

      From: etznab18 <etznab@...>
      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the Sound Current?
      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Saturday, December 8, 2012, 5:11 AM

       
      I don't believe Paul Twitchell reinvented the Soul Mates thing. It looks to me more like he plagiarized, or paraphrased about it (adding his own spin as well, under the guise of Eck Masters, etc.). But hey, Eckankar is not a cult and it's against spiritual law to push one's beliefs on another :) If you don't believe me just read the FAQ section on Eckankar's web site. Look for the question: Is Eckankar a cult?

      ***

      There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book, Dialogues With The Master (1970), called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.

      Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness (first published in 1913?) - and compare the text with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to Paul Twitchell in Dialogues With The Master.

      http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up

      http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNomad.pdf

      ***

      Remember that controversial subject of Soul Mates which appeared in Paul Twitche;ll's earlier books (I thought it was TTF, but here is something in DWTM)?

      Ali Nomad:

      Each and every SOUL, therefore, has its spiritual counterpart--its "other half," with which it unites on the spiritual plane, when the time comes for attainment of immortality.

      Lord Sohang:

      "Each and every Soul, therefore, in the lower worlds has its spiritual counterpart - its other half with which it unites on the spiritual plane, when the time comes for the attainment of the highest goal of the world of Brahm and that counterpart is the ECK Spirit." (DWTM p. 176)

      https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!searchin/alt.religion.eckankar/soul$20mates|sort:date/alt.religion.eckankar/9_e16rhw3gA/3VmvQQ811QsJ

      Now of course it depends on who Paul Twitchell is plagiarizing, as the information can vary. It can even appear contradictory. Example:

      [...] But unless the union has already been made in heaven through pure love, the physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness, for like all true sacraments it must be entered into and registered upon all planes. (p. 220)
      The Law of Divine Love will bring to each Soul its true marriage, a union in perfect purity on all planes. This according to the one life-theory is of course impossible for all; but since reincarnation is a fact, the Soul, through repeated experiences, learns to follow its Divine Guidance, hence will ultimately find its true mate. But they can be spiritually as well as physically married to their mates only when the old accounts of both have been balanced and the old complications set up through the mistakes of the past have been worked out. [... .]. (p. 221)

      The Voice Of Isis And Realms Of The Living Dead, by Harriett Augusta Curtiss

      http://archive.org/stream/TheVoiceOfIsis2ndEdition/CurtissFhAndHaTheVoiceOfIsis2ndEdition_djvu.txt

      Rebazar Tarzs in DWTM:

      "Now for the part of union between man and woman. Unless this union has been made on the higher planes through pure thought, the physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness, for like all true sacraments it must be entered into and registered upon all planes.
      "The law of divine love will bring to each Soul Its true marriage and union in perfect purity on all planes. This true marriage is that of Soul with the ECK - the polarization of each Soul - not two Souls or man and woman coming together. And, as it is, each Soul will be guided through repeated experience by divine guidance until It finds this true love, the love of ECK through the Mahanta. You can be spiritually as well as physically married to a mate only when the old accounts of both have been balanced, and old complications set up through mistakes of the past have been worked out. (p. 115)

      (My guess is that someone revised the original DWTM manuscript since the ECK (all caps) trademark didn't come about until 1968 and the Mahanta term didn't come into vogue until 1969; whereas the DWTM manuscript was reportedly written in 1956!)

      Now I remember (I think it was in The Tiger's Fang, Or was it The Eck-Vidya?) some Soul Mates controversy in Eckankar history where I believe Harold Klemp and Eckankar had to "correct" what Paul Twitchell earlier wrote. It was no longer about two people coming together, but a person finding (in so many words) their own "higher self".

      I haven't finished checking all the references to Soul Mates in all of Paul's books, so don't just go on what I quoted from DWTM.

      ***

      Btw, my Yahoo has been bouncing since Nov. 28 so I've been out of the loop since then and hadn't received any posts via email. Just now are catching up.

      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hello Non eckchains and All,
      > The Soulmate theory
      > phenomena is an interesting
      > spiritual perspective
      > and is, actually, unlimited
      > by conventional New Age
      > thought. Eckankar (PT)
      > reinvented it with a
      > Twin-Soul perspective.
      > This is interesting, but
      > IMO it shouldn't be limited
      > to or by PT's "Twin" Soul
      > view and a single pairing
      > only.
      >
      > Thus, the connection that
      > some/many Souls have with
      > one another (IMO) s/b referred
      > to in the plural. Thus, Soulmates
      > is more than one pairing.
      > Unfortunately, for Eckists,
      > Klemp has them locked into
      > a "Twin" concept when there
      > are Triplets and many more!
      > This phenomena can be
      > a special connection/attraction
      > with lifelong friends, as well,
      > and not always be with sexual
      > partners.
      >
      > As far as Klemp's fraud
      > and his "frownish and fakish"
      > H.I.'s, well, that's to be
      > expected when they emulate
      > HK's own behaviour via clues
      > with the way the EK hierarchy
      > is run or the way in which
      > he speaks/refers to Joan and/
      > or tells his stories.
      >
      > With Klemp there's a lack
      > of forgiveness, compassion,
      > and empathy. These are
      > missing from Klemp's own
      > perspectives in his own life
      > stories.
      >
      > It's easy for him to judge
      > others and point out flaws
      > or to add "insight" and to
      > do EK tweaks on the letters
      > sent to him. And, that's
      > what Klemp does when
      > he "writes" in his hermit
      > batty cave.
      >
      > Thus, many of HK's RESAs
      > emulate his lack of empathy,
      > compassion, and forgiveness.
      > They talk a lot about "love"
      > but when it comes to the
      > business/spiritual side of
      > Eckankar and the "Guidelines,"
      > as set forth by HK via the
      > ESC, there is not much room
      > leftover for the byproducts
      > of love.
      >
      > Look at the way the Higher
      > initiations are handed out.
      > There are always strings
      > attached and it has more
      > to do with "Outer" posturing
      > and faking it with physical
      > requirements. What is said
      > or isn't said to the RESA
      > or done as a volunteer,
      > than with anything else
      > or with one's visible goodness,
      > has more importance in
      > deciding who gets a pink
      > slip. It's not love for God.
      > Long-time Eckists who
      > are loyal and loving and
      > are very nice people are
      > excluded from becoming
      > H.I.s because they haven't
      > jumped through enough
      > physical hoops of training,
      > retraining, volunteering, etc.
      >
      > Or, maybe they didn't seem
      > like a 'take charge" leader
      > or have a college education
      > and/or were high profile
      > professionals. It's amazing
      > how petty RESAs can be,
      > and these people are the
      > "righthand" of Klemp.
      >
      > In truth, many people who
      > left Eckankar did so out of
      > frustration caused via neglect
      > and unloving behavior towards
      > them. Once you've become
      > a member their main goal
      > has been achieved. From
      > there they dangle the carrot
      > for the higher initiations
      > and, now, make it very
      > difficult to achieve the 7th.
      > Eckists need to become
      > ESAs to become RESAs
      > and unless you're already
      > an ESA it's, now, much
      > more difficult to achieve.
      > And, for a 6th ESA to get
      > the 7th they, usually, need
      > to become a RESA.
      >
      > Thus, Klemp slowed-down
      > Initiations in 1985 due to
      > Darwin making 500 new
      > 5ths before leaving office.
      > So, more that 25 years later
      > what is Klemp's excuse for
      > not making more H.I.s and
      > for not expanding the "outer"
      > initiations and their numbers?
      >
      > It's actually a simple/obvious
      > explanation. Klemp is selfish.
      >
      > Klemp's lack of empathy,
      > compassion, forgiveness and
      > real, true love for his fellow
      > eckists, and the trickle-down
      > effect within the EK Hierarchy,
      > is why Eckankar and ECKists
      > are broken and lost. Their
      > delusional faith and fellowship
      > (it's a numbers game) is
      > what they cling to as do
      > all religionists. Yet, as with
      > all religionists, their faith
      > has the only chosen ones
      > who have been gifted with
      > special insight into God
      > (or whatever name they use).
      > EK is simply more of the same
      > but tweaked to fit a special
      > New Age/Metaphysical mindset.
      > It's the Easy Way until those,
      > now, with less than 30 plus
      > years want a 6th or 7th
      > initiation.
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      >
      > "Non" eckchains wrote:
      > I agree with a lot of what you have said here. I don't quite get the Soulmate
      > though. I have been met with mostly great difficulty in actualizing this, even
      > though it sounds quite nice. I am open to experiencing this, yet I am also
      > naturally intuitive and also he who questions a lot and enjoys experimenting and
      > investigating. Most people I meet are into holding tight to their beliefs and
      > don't like being around someone like me, if I am just being myself. For some
      > reason I ruffle feathers so maybe that means I need to stay away from certain
      > Birds. :) I don't know the answer.
      >
      > As far as the sound current. My experience has been dreams of beautiful music
      > sometimes, but also just feeling. Not everyone is musical. The sound current and
      > light may actually be too limiting. It is based on our two most used human
      > senses, seeing and hearing. There is so much more richness involved. We are
      > lacking in our sense of smell and there are other senses that other animals know
      > and experience that make us look like idiots sometimes. Humans are very arrogant
      > because of our superior ability to manipulate our environment, something that if
      > unchecked can and does cause great havoc, destruction and killing just to kill.
      >
      > Feeling and intuition is very under rated. Feelings allow us to have compassion
      > and empathy. That is a vibration I wish there was more of. People don't like it,
      > because it also means that we may have to relate to the pain of another, or to
      > our own pain. People are too hardened IMHO. At the same time, bless the ones who
      > act out of compassion to advocate and fight those who are indifferent to at
      > least living with some level of a little empathy. I think they have compassion
      > in them, it is just repressed, and imo is always pushing to express. I dare say,
      > that even klemp and his HI's are so frownish and fakish, because that is how you
      > repress feelings and natural compassion. It is harder for humans, because we are
      > more self-aware. Native American life often at least had sacred rituals for
      > killing to eat. We are lost..... Light and sound meditations may just be a
      > distraction and limiting us from our Whole Being. We cannot cut off a part of
      > ourselves and Be our Whole Being, imo.
      >
      > Non ; )
      >
      >
      > <prometheus wrote:
      > >
      > > Hello Tyson, Russ, and All,
      > > I believe that religious myth
      > > was created to explain away
      > > the phenomenal, and that
      > > religion was created in order
      > > to control the masses and,
      > > thus, use this undertaking
      > > for money, power, greed,
      > > status and other self-benefits
      > > for the hierarchies.
      > >
      > > The Blue Light/Blue Star?
      > > The human mind/brain
      > > functions similarly and
      > > when attention is placed
      > > upon subjects this produces
      > > chemical and electrical
      > > reactions. There are even
      > > mixed but similar responses
      > > to unconscious stimuli.
      > > But many people realize
      > > all of this but tend to
      > > forget it when seeking
      > > "spiritual" answers.
      > >
      > > People should not have
      > > faith in the words of
      > > others. People should
      > > No Longer give others
      > > 'the benefit of the doubt.'
      > >
      > > Yes, we can look at what
      > > principles they are sharing
      > > in order to help us to
      > > achieve a greater realization
      > > but we should not limit
      > > ourselves from going
      > > beyond the realizations
      > > and achievements in
      > > higher consciousness
      > > of those we view as
      > > ideals/icons.
      > >
      > > Thus, the concept of
      > > "Master" needs to be
      > > revised and eliminated.
      > >
      > > When the lessons have
      > > been taught, via real
      > > world examples of
      > > living, it then becomes
      > > our responsibility
      > > to demonstrate what
      > > we have learned as
      > > it pertains to our
      > > own unique individual
      > > personality and
      > > circumstances. We
      > > move-on and into
      > > our own unrestricted
      > > conscious awareness.
      > >
      > > IMHO- Jesus, and not
      > > always his apostles,
      > > taught some really
      > > advanced concepts.
      > > Too advanced for
      > > most of us today!
      > >
      > > I'll never forget this
      > > one Fung Fu episode
      > > where Cain ran into
      > > some religious fanatics
      > > who would not defend
      > > themselves and would
      > > turn the other cheek.
      > > Cain showed them that
      > > there was a third response.
      > > Instead of becoming
      > > a victim of violence,
      > > or responding with
      > > violence Cain stopped/
      > > blocked the violence
      > > i.e. punch or object
      > > and redirected its
      > > intended path.
      > >
      > > Anyway, I've heard
      > > sounds when first
      > > starting to mediate
      > > via TM. Everyone
      > > heard these tones.
      > > Generally the mind
      > > blocks out these
      > > background noises
      > > until it quiets down
      > > and empties itself.
      > > Actually, one can
      > > follow these sounds
      > > without placing
      > > too much attention
      > > on them. That's the
      > > trick. One doesn't
      > > place attention or
      > > attachment on any
      > > thought, imaginary
      > > vision or sound no
      > > matter how pleasant.
      > >
      > > Eventually, this will
      > > produce other by-
      > > products of awareness
      > > such as contentment.
      > >
      > > I have to say that one
      > > must discover their
      > > own reality. Don't take
      > > my word for anything.
      > > Divine Awareness is
      > > an individual experience
      > > and not a group path.
      > > I called it "Divine Awareness"
      > > in oder to give this
      > > private and personal
      > > Discovery by Soul a
      > > special designation.
      > > By referring to the
      > > uniqueness of the
      > > individual experience
      > > as 'Soul' does likewise.
      > >
      > > I will have to say that
      > > I've had help in validating
      > > that there is a Reality
      > > beyond the scientific
      > > explanations and that
      > > of religious dogma.
      > >
      > > I can only say that
      > > the Soulmate concept
      > > (IMO) is real in that
      > > it helps these Souls
      > > to form a special
      > > bond in order to merge
      > > and harmonize their
      > > vibrations and to better
      > > 'tune-in' to glimpses
      > > of, perhaps, our true
      > > origins and potential
      > > but also of this Here
      > > and Now.
      > >
      > > Prometheus
      > >
      > >
      > > "Tyson" wrote:
      > > The sound current, bani,
      > > shabd or nam is real.
      > >
      > > There is no religion that
      > > can claim it as there own.
      > >
      > > What is fiction is the
      > > dependance on a master
      > > that is created by religions
      > > of the light and sound.
      > >
      > > Only one initiation is
      > > important.
      > >
      > > Yet faith in a past master
      > > such as Christ, Krishna
      > > or Guru Nanak is just as
      > > valid.
      > >
      > > There is no mahanta.
      > >
      > > The blue star is no
      > > other than a manifestation
      > > created by a meeting
      > > between the holy spirit
      > > and ones higher self
      > > (soul).
      > >
      > > For Harold to claim to
      > > be the blue star is a
      > > way to snare the gullible.
      > > He is no more the blue
      > > star than the second
      > > coming of christ.
      > >
      > > I had heard the rushing
      > > wind as a member of
      > > eckankar so I wrongly
      > > believed that this path
      > > must be true.
      > >
      > > It was meditation on
      > > the third eye that brought
      > > the rushing wind, not
      > > Klemp.
      > >
      > > Eckankar was taken from
      > > the Sihk word Ek Ong Kar.
      > > Ek Ong Kar means one
      > > divine energy permeates
      > > all things.
      > >
      > >
      > > Russ wrote:
      > > > I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is ex eckist, interviewing
      > > David Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.
      > >
      > > > One of the interviewees, a man made a statement, paraphrasing here, that in
      > > his mind it doesn't matter where the writings of eckankar come from because he
      > > is finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it's more important to have
      > a
      > > connection with the sound current.
      > > >
      > > > I used to have that exact point of view. What changed for me?
      > > >
      > > > One thing I used to feel good about when talking about eck was this idea
      > that
      > > it has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was synonymous with the
      > sound
      > > current.
      > > >
      > > > It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored for a decade, after
      > > becoming a 5th. I could no longer ignore this dissonance, caused by the
      > > plaigarism and ultimately this had led to me dropping out of eckankar.
      > > >
      > > > I have a question concerning the sound current. I experience this sound,
      > > sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous to my study of eck.
      > Maybe
      > > it isn't important, where you read about it, if you take it as a principle and
      > > work with it.
      > > >
      > > > Do you folks think the sound current is bogus? Delusions?
      > > >
      > > > This is an interesting point because I am interested in truth...
      > > >
      > > > BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion, good work. But this by
      > > itself doesn't go to the underlying issues concerning the question, "What is
      > the
      > > Truth regarding the idea of the sound current as a way of connection with the
      > > Divine??"
      > > >
      > > > Thanks,
      > > >
      > > > Russ
      >

    • harrisonferrel
      I agree. But I also think that most New Age thinking is absurd because it is baseless and without evidence. The soul concept cannot be proven, let alone the
      Message 2 of 22 , Dec 10, 2012
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        I agree. But I also think that most New Age thinking is absurd because it is baseless and without evidence. The soul concept cannot be proven, let alone the soulmate idea.



        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer <jepfeiffer@...> wrote:
        >
        > I can't view the concept of a soulmate being two parts of a whole no matter where it comes from.  I don't believe any of us are half of a whole.  Maybe Paul needed that concept as a reason for why he fell for Gail. 
        >
        > --- On Sat, 12/8/12, etznab18 <etznab@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > From: etznab18 <etznab@...>
        > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the Sound Current?
        > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Saturday, December 8, 2012, 5:11 AM
        >
        >
        >
        >  
        >
        >
        >
        > I don't believe Paul Twitchell reinvented the Soul Mates thing. It looks to me more like he plagiarized, or paraphrased about it (adding his own spin as well, under the guise of Eck Masters, etc.). But hey, Eckankar is not a cult and it's against spiritual law to push one's beliefs on another :) If you don't believe me just read the FAQ section on Eckankar's web site. Look for the question: Is Eckankar a cult?
        >
        > ***
        >
        > There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book, Dialogues With The Master (1970), called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.
        >
        > Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness (first published in 1913?) - and compare the text with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to Paul Twitchell in Dialogues With The Master.
        >
        > http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up
        >
        > http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNomad.pdf
        >
        > ***
        >
        > Remember that controversial subject of Soul Mates which appeared in Paul Twitche;ll's earlier books (I thought it was TTF, but here is something in DWTM)?
        >
        > Ali Nomad:
        >
        > Each and every SOUL, therefore, has its spiritual counterpart--its "other half," with which it unites on the spiritual plane, when the time comes for attainment of immortality.
        >
        > Lord Sohang:
        >
        > "Each and every Soul, therefore, in the lower worlds has its spiritual counterpart - its other half with which it unites on the spiritual plane, when the time comes for the attainment of the highest goal of the world of Brahm and that counterpart is the ECK Spirit." (DWTM p. 176)
        >
        > https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!searchin/alt.religion.eckankar/soul$20mates|sort:date/alt.religion.eckankar/9_e16rhw3gA/3VmvQQ811QsJ
        >
        > Now of course it depends on who Paul Twitchell is plagiarizing, as the information can vary. It can even appear contradictory. Example:
        >
        > [...] But unless the union has already been made in heaven through pure love, the physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness, for like all true sacraments it must be entered into and registered upon all planes. (p. 220)
        > The Law of Divine Love will bring to each Soul its true marriage, a union in perfect purity on all planes. This according to the one life-theory is of course impossible for all; but since reincarnation is a fact, the Soul, through repeated experiences, learns to follow its Divine Guidance, hence will ultimately find its true mate. But they can be spiritually as well as physically married to their mates only when the old accounts of both have been balanced and the old complications set up through the mistakes of the past have been worked out. [... .]. (p. 221)
        >
        > The Voice Of Isis And Realms Of The Living Dead, by Harriett Augusta Curtiss
        >
        > http://archive.org/stream/TheVoiceOfIsis2ndEdition/CurtissFhAndHaTheVoiceOfIsis2ndEdition_djvu.txt
        >
        > Rebazar Tarzs in DWTM:
        >
        > "Now for the part of union between man and woman. Unless this union has been made on the higher planes through pure thought, the physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness, for like all true sacraments it must be entered into and registered upon all planes.
        > "The law of divine love will bring to each Soul Its true marriage and union in perfect purity on all planes. This true marriage is that of Soul with the ECK - the polarization of each Soul - not two Souls or man and woman coming together. And, as it is, each Soul will be guided through repeated experience by divine guidance until It finds this true love, the love of ECK through the Mahanta. You can be spiritually as well as physically married to a mate only when the old accounts of both have been balanced, and old complications set up through mistakes of the past have been worked out. (p. 115)
        >
        > (My guess is that someone revised the original DWTM manuscript since the ECK (all caps) trademark didn't come about until 1968 and the Mahanta term didn't come into vogue until 1969; whereas the DWTM manuscript was reportedly written in 1956!)
        >
        > Now I remember (I think it was in The Tiger's Fang, Or was it The Eck-Vidya?) some Soul Mates controversy in Eckankar history where I believe Harold Klemp and Eckankar had to "correct" what Paul Twitchell earlier wrote. It was no longer about two people coming together, but a person finding (in so many words) their own "higher self".
        >
        > I haven't finished checking all the references to Soul Mates in all of Paul's books, so don't just go on what I quoted from DWTM.
        >
        > ***
        >
        > Btw, my Yahoo has been bouncing since Nov. 28 so I've been out of the loop since then and hadn't received any posts via email. Just now are catching up.
        >
        > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hello Non eckchains and All,
        > > The Soulmate theory
        > > phenomena is an interesting
        > > spiritual perspective
        > > and is, actually, unlimited
        > > by conventional New Age
        > > thought. Eckankar (PT)
        > > reinvented it with a
        > > Twin-Soul perspective.
        > > This is interesting, but
        > > IMO it shouldn't be limited
        > > to or by PT's "Twin" Soul
        > > view and a single pairing
        > > only.
        > >
        > > Thus, the connection that
        > > some/many Souls have with
        > > one another (IMO) s/b referred
        > > to in the plural. Thus, Soulmates
        > > is more than one pairing.
        > > Unfortunately, for Eckists,
        > > Klemp has them locked into
        > > a "Twin" concept when there
        > > are Triplets and many more!
        > > This phenomena can be
        > > a special connection/attraction
        > > with lifelong friends, as well,
        > > and not always be with sexual
        > > partners.
        > >
        > > As far as Klemp's fraud
        > > and his "frownish and fakish"
        > > H.I.'s, well, that's to be
        > > expected when they emulate
        > > HK's own behaviour via clues
        > > with the way the EK hierarchy
        > > is run or the way in which
        > > he speaks/refers to Joan and/
        > > or tells his stories.
        > >
        > > With Klemp there's a lack
        > > of forgiveness, compassion,
        > > and empathy. These are
        > > missing from Klemp's own
        > > perspectives in his own life
        > > stories.
        > >
        > > It's easy for him to judge
        > > others and point out flaws
        > > or to add "insight" and to
        > > do EK tweaks on the letters
        > > sent to him. And, that's
        > > what Klemp does when
        > > he "writes" in his hermit
        > > batty cave.
        > >
        > > Thus, many of HK's RESAs
        > > emulate his lack of empathy,
        > > compassion, and forgiveness.
        > > They talk a lot about "love"
        > > but when it comes to the
        > > business/spiritual side of
        > > Eckankar and the "Guidelines,"
        > > as set forth by HK via the
        > > ESC, there is not much room
        > > leftover for the byproducts
        > > of love.
        > >
        > > Look at the way the Higher
        > > initiations are handed out.
        > > There are always strings
        > > attached and it has more
        > > to do with "Outer" posturing
        > > and faking it with physical
        > > requirements. What is said
        > > or isn't said to the RESA
        > > or done as a volunteer,
        > > than with anything else
        > > or with one's visible goodness,
        > > has more importance in
        > > deciding who gets a pink
        > > slip. It's not love for God.
        > > Long-time Eckists who
        > > are loyal and loving and
        > > are very nice people are
        > > excluded from becoming
        > > H.I.s because they haven't
        > > jumped through enough
        > > physical hoops of training,
        > > retraining, volunteering, etc.
        > >
        > > Or, maybe they didn't seem
        > > like a 'take charge" leader
        > > or have a college education
        > > and/or were high profile
        > > professionals. It's amazing
        > > how petty RESAs can be,
        > > and these people are the
        > > "righthand" of Klemp.
        > >
        > > In truth, many people who
        > > left Eckankar did so out of
        > > frustration caused via neglect
        > > and unloving behavior towards
        > > them. Once you've become
        > > a member their main goal
        > > has been achieved. From
        > > there they dangle the carrot
        > > for the higher initiations
        > > and, now, make it very
        > > difficult to achieve the 7th.
        > > Eckists need to become
        > > ESAs to become RESAs
        > > and unless you're already
        > > an ESA it's, now, much
        > > more difficult to achieve.
        > > And, for a 6th ESA to get
        > > the 7th they, usually, need
        > > to become a RESA.
        > >
        > > Thus, Klemp slowed-down
        > > Initiations in 1985 due to
        > > Darwin making 500 new
        > > 5ths before leaving office.
        > > So, more that 25 years later
        > > what is Klemp's excuse for
        > > not making more H.I.s and
        > > for not expanding the "outer"
        > > initiations and their numbers?
        > >
        > > It's actually a simple/obvious
        > > explanation. Klemp is selfish.
        > >
        > > Klemp's lack of empathy,
        > > compassion, forgiveness and
        > > real, true love for his fellow
        > > eckists, and the trickle-down
        > > effect within the EK Hierarchy,
        > > is why Eckankar and ECKists
        > > are broken and lost. Their
        > > delusional faith and fellowship
        > > (it's a numbers game) is
        > > what they cling to as do
        > > all religionists. Yet, as with
        > > all religionists, their faith
        > > has the only chosen ones
        > > who have been gifted with
        > > special insight into God
        > > (or whatever name they use).
        > > EK is simply more of the same
        > > but tweaked to fit a special
        > > New Age/Metaphysical mindset.
        > > It's the Easy Way until those,
        > > now, with less than 30 plus
        > > years want a 6th or 7th
        > > initiation.
        > >
        > > Prometheus
        > >
        > >
        > > "Non" eckchains wrote:
        > > I agree with a lot of what you have said here. I don't quite get the Soulmate
        > > though. I have been met with mostly great difficulty in actualizing this, even
        > > though it sounds quite nice. I am open to experiencing this, yet I am also
        > > naturally intuitive and also he who questions a lot and enjoys experimenting and
        > > investigating. Most people I meet are into holding tight to their beliefs and
        > > don't like being around someone like me, if I am just being myself. For some
        > > reason I ruffle feathers so maybe that means I need to stay away from certain
        > > Birds. :) I don't know the answer.
        > >
        > > As far as the sound current. My experience has been dreams of beautiful music
        > > sometimes, but also just feeling. Not everyone is musical. The sound current and
        > > light may actually be too limiting. It is based on our two most used human
        > > senses, seeing and hearing. There is so much more richness involved. We are
        > > lacking in our sense of smell and there are other senses that other animals know
        > > and experience that make us look like idiots sometimes. Humans are very arrogant
        > > because of our superior ability to manipulate our environment, something that if
        > > unchecked can and does cause great havoc, destruction and killing just to kill.
        > >
        > > Feeling and intuition is very under rated. Feelings allow us to have compassion
        > > and empathy. That is a vibration I wish there was more of. People don't like it,
        > > because it also means that we may have to relate to the pain of another, or to
        > > our own pain. People are too hardened IMHO. At the same time, bless the ones who
        > > act out of compassion to advocate and fight those who are indifferent to at
        > > least living with some level of a little empathy. I think they have compassion
        > > in them, it is just repressed, and imo is always pushing to express. I dare say,
        > > that even klemp and his HI's are so frownish and fakish, because that is how you
        > > repress feelings and natural compassion. It is harder for humans, because we are
        > > more self-aware. Native American life often at least had sacred rituals for
        > > killing to eat. We are lost..... Light and sound meditations may just be a
        > > distraction and limiting us from our Whole Being. We cannot cut off a part of
        > > ourselves and Be our Whole Being, imo.
        > >
        > > Non ; )
        > >
        > >
        > > <prometheus wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Hello Tyson, Russ, and All,
        > > > I believe that religious myth
        > > > was created to explain away
        > > > the phenomenal, and that
        > > > religion was created in order
        > > > to control the masses and,
        > > > thus, use this undertaking
        > > > for money, power, greed,
        > > > status and other self-benefits
        > > > for the hierarchies.
        > > >
        > > > The Blue Light/Blue Star?
        > > > The human mind/brain
        > > > functions similarly and
        > > > when attention is placed
        > > > upon subjects this produces
        > > > chemical and electrical
        > > > reactions. There are even
        > > > mixed but similar responses
        > > > to unconscious stimuli.
        > > > But many people realize
        > > > all of this but tend to
        > > > forget it when seeking
        > > > "spiritual" answers.
        > > >
        > > > People should not have
        > > > faith in the words of
        > > > others. People should
        > > > No Longer give others
        > > > 'the benefit of the doubt.'
        > > >
        > > > Yes, we can look at what
        > > > principles they are sharing
        > > > in order to help us to
        > > > achieve a greater realization
        > > > but we should not limit
        > > > ourselves from going
        > > > beyond the realizations
        > > > and achievements in
        > > > higher consciousness
        > > > of those we view as
        > > > ideals/icons.
        > > >
        > > > Thus, the concept of
        > > > "Master" needs to be
        > > > revised and eliminated.
        > > >
        > > > When the lessons have
        > > > been taught, via real
        > > > world examples of
        > > > living, it then becomes
        > > > our responsibility
        > > > to demonstrate what
        > > > we have learned as
        > > > it pertains to our
        > > > own unique individual
        > > > personality and
        > > > circumstances. We
        > > > move-on and into
        > > > our own unrestricted
        > > > conscious awareness.
        > > >
        > > > IMHO- Jesus, and not
        > > > always his apostles,
        > > > taught some really
        > > > advanced concepts.
        > > > Too advanced for
        > > > most of us today!
        > > >
        > > > I'll never forget this
        > > > one Fung Fu episode
        > > > where Cain ran into
        > > > some religious fanatics
        > > > who would not defend
        > > > themselves and would
        > > > turn the other cheek.
        > > > Cain showed them that
        > > > there was a third response.
        > > > Instead of becoming
        > > > a victim of violence,
        > > > or responding with
        > > > violence Cain stopped/
        > > > blocked the violence
        > > > i.e. punch or object
        > > > and redirected its
        > > > intended path.
        > > >
        > > > Anyway, I've heard
        > > > sounds when first
        > > > starting to mediate
        > > > via TM. Everyone
        > > > heard these tones.
        > > > Generally the mind
        > > > blocks out these
        > > > background noises
        > > > until it quiets down
        > > > and empties itself.
        > > > Actually, one can
        > > > follow these sounds
        > > > without placing
        > > > too much attention
        > > > on them. That's the
        > > > trick. One doesn't
        > > > place attention or
        > > > attachment on any
        > > > thought, imaginary
        > > > vision or sound no
        > > > matter how pleasant.
        > > >
        > > > Eventually, this will
        > > > produce other by-
        > > > products of awareness
        > > > such as contentment.
        > > >
        > > > I have to say that one
        > > > must discover their
        > > > own reality. Don't take
        > > > my word for anything.
        > > > Divine Awareness is
        > > > an individual experience
        > > > and not a group path.
        > > > I called it "Divine Awareness"
        > > > in oder to give this
        > > > private and personal
        > > > Discovery by Soul a
        > > > special designation.
        > > > By referring to the
        > > > uniqueness of the
        > > > individual experience
        > > > as 'Soul' does likewise.
        > > >
        > > > I will have to say that
        > > > I've had help in validating
        > > > that there is a Reality
        > > > beyond the scientific
        > > > explanations and that
        > > > of religious dogma.
        > > >
        > > > I can only say that
        > > > the Soulmate concept
        > > > (IMO) is real in that
        > > > it helps these Souls
        > > > to form a special
        > > > bond in order to merge
        > > > and harmonize their
        > > > vibrations and to better
        > > > 'tune-in' to glimpses
        > > > of, perhaps, our true
        > > > origins and potential
        > > > but also of this Here
        > > > and Now.
        > > >
        > > > Prometheus
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > "Tyson" wrote:
        > > > The sound current, bani,
        > > > shabd or nam is real.
        > > >
        > > > There is no religion that
        > > > can claim it as there own.
        > > >
        > > > What is fiction is the
        > > > dependance on a master
        > > > that is created by religions
        > > > of the light and sound.
        > > >
        > > > Only one initiation is
        > > > important.
        > > >
        > > > Yet faith in a past master
        > > > such as Christ, Krishna
        > > > or Guru Nanak is just as
        > > > valid.
        > > >
        > > > There is no mahanta.
        > > >
        > > > The blue star is no
        > > > other than a manifestation
        > > > created by a meeting
        > > > between the holy spirit
        > > > and ones higher self
        > > > (soul).
        > > >
        > > > For Harold to claim to
        > > > be the blue star is a
        > > > way to snare the gullible.
        > > > He is no more the blue
        > > > star than the second
        > > > coming of christ.
        > > >
        > > > I had heard the rushing
        > > > wind as a member of
        > > > eckankar so I wrongly
        > > > believed that this path
        > > > must be true.
        > > >
        > > > It was meditation on
        > > > the third eye that brought
        > > > the rushing wind, not
        > > > Klemp.
        > > >
        > > > Eckankar was taken from
        > > > the Sihk word Ek Ong Kar.
        > > > Ek Ong Kar means one
        > > > divine energy permeates
        > > > all things.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Russ wrote:
        > > > > I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is ex eckist, interviewing
        > > > David Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.
        > > >
        > > > > One of the interviewees, a man made a statement, paraphrasing here, that in
        > > > his mind it doesn't matter where the writings of eckankar come from because he
        > > > is finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it's more important to have
        > > a
        > > > connection with the sound current.
        > > > >
        > > > > I used to have that exact point of view. What changed for me?
        > > > >
        > > > > One thing I used to feel good about when talking about eck was this idea
        > > that
        > > > it has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was synonymous with the
        > > sound
        > > > current.
        > > > >
        > > > > It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored for a decade, after
        > > > becoming a 5th. I could no longer ignore this dissonance, caused by the
        > > > plaigarism and ultimately this had led to me dropping out of eckankar.
        > > > >
        > > > > I have a question concerning the sound current. I experience this sound,
        > > > sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous to my study of eck.
        > > Maybe
        > > > it isn't important, where you read about it, if you take it as a principle and
        > > > work with it.
        > > > >
        > > > > Do you folks think the sound current is bogus? Delusions?
        > > > >
        > > > > This is an interesting point because I am interested in truth...
        > > > >
        > > > > BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion, good work. But this by
        > > > itself doesn't go to the underlying issues concerning the question, "What is
        > > the
        > > > Truth regarding the idea of the sound current as a way of connection with the
        > > > Divine??"
        > > > >
        > > > > Thanks,
        > > > >
        > > > > Russ
        > >
        >
      • etznab@aol.com
        I find it suspect whenever the female is downgraded in comparison with the male. In The Tiger s Fang (according to Lord Alakh Lok?): There is more to this law
        Message 3 of 22 , Dec 10, 2012
        • 0 Attachment
          I find it suspect whenever the female is downgraded in comparison with
          the male. In The Tiger's Fang (according to Lord Alakh Lok?):

          "There is more to this law than just the issues which have been given
          here. No Soul can enter into the worlds above the plane of Sat Lok
          without being complete within itself - without having both completed
          the cycle of balance and entering into the oneness with its other self,
          and both gaining the traits of the other .... and in the end, as it is
          said, becoming the male or original Soul as God first put on earth.
          This Soul had the qualities which God wanted, but could not be
          manifested unless Soul was split into two particular particles, the
          negative and the positive, for both to develop." (pp. 85-86)

          My comments:

          As it is said? Lord Alakh Lok says "as it is said"?

          I wonder, Did Paul Twitchell come up with this stuff from Radhasoami
          doctrine? Quoting:

          "The higher centres in a female form are less capable of being
          developed than in a male form. All the centres of Pind, Brahmand and
          Dayal Desh do exist in a woman as they do in man. But the centres
          higher than Sunn or Daswan Dwar cannot ordinarily be awakened in a
          woman. Hence, the highest point to which the spirit or Surat in a
          female can rise, is the Daswan Dwar. For higher ascension, the same
          Surat or spirit will have to take birth as a man, and perform the
          spiritual exercises for awakening higher centres. [... .]"

          http://www.rsfaith.org/images/stories/RSFBooks/English/Holy_Epistols_Part_5/holy_epistols_part_5_1.html

          Both versions on the subject are highly suspect, IMO. I think people
          probably butchered an older form of a story that subsequently took on
          Frankenstein form.

          I think there are two more sections about Soul Mates that I came across
          recently, both from Dialogues With The Master, at least one version of
          which appears to be from appropriated text.



          -----Original Message-----
          From: harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...>
          To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
          <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Mon, Dec 10, 2012 4:26 pm
          Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the
          Sound Current?

           
          I agree. But I also think that most New Age thinking is absurd because
          it is baseless and without evidence. The soul concept cannot be proven,
          let alone the soulmate idea.

          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer
          <jepfeiffer@...> wrote:
          >
          > I can't view the concept of a soulmate being two parts of a whole
          no matter where it comes from.  I don't believe any of us are half of
          a whole.  Maybe Paul needed that concept as a reason for why he fell
          for Gail. 
          >
          > --- On Sat, 12/8/12, etznab18 <etznab@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > From: etznab18 <etznab@...>
          > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the
          Sound Current?
          > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: Saturday, December 8, 2012, 5:11 AM
          >
          >
          >
          >  
          >
          >
          >
          > I don't believe Paul Twitchell reinvented the Soul Mates thing. It
          looks to me more like he plagiarized, or paraphrased about it (adding
          his own spin as well, under the guise of Eck Masters, etc.). But hey,
          Eckankar is not a cult and it's against spiritual law to push one's
          beliefs on another :) If you don't believe me just read the FAQ section
          on Eckankar's web site. Look for the question: Is Eckankar a cult?
          >
          > ***
          >
          > There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book, Dialogues With The
          Master (1970), called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.
          >
          > Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness (first published in
          1913?) - and compare the text with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to
          Paul Twitchell in Dialogues With The Master.
          >
          >
          http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up
          >
          >
          http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNomad.pdf
          >
          > ***
          >
          > Remember that controversial subject of Soul Mates which appeared
          in Paul Twitche;ll's earlier books (I thought it was TTF, but here is
          something in DWTM)?
          >
          > Ali Nomad:
          >
          > Each and every SOUL, therefore, has its spiritual counterpart--its
          "other half," with which it unites on the spiritual plane, when the
          time comes for attainment of immortality.
          >
          > Lord Sohang:
          >
          > "Each and every Soul, therefore, in the lower worlds has its
          spiritual counterpart - its other half with which it unites on the
          spiritual plane, when the time comes for the attainment of the highest
          goal of the world of Brahm and that counterpart is the ECK Spirit."
          (DWTM p. 176)
          >
          >
          https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!searchin/alt.religion.eckankar/soul$20mates|sort:date/alt.religion.eckankar/9_e16rhw3gA/3VmvQQ811QsJ
          >
          > Now of course it depends on who Paul Twitchell is plagiarizing, as
          the information can vary. It can even appear contradictory. Example:
          >
          > [...] But unless the union has already been made in heaven through
          pure love, the physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness,
          for like all true sacraments it must be entered into and registered
          upon all planes. (p. 220)
          > The Law of Divine Love will bring to each Soul its true marriage,
          a union in perfect purity on all planes. This according to the one
          life-theory is of course impossible for all; but since reincarnation is
          a fact, the Soul, through repeated experiences, learns to follow its
          Divine Guidance, hence will ultimately find its true mate. But they can
          be spiritually as well as physically married to their mates only when
          the old accounts of both have been balanced and the old complications
          set up through the mistakes of the past have been worked out. [... .].
          (p. 221)
          >
          > The Voice Of Isis And Realms Of The Living Dead, by Harriett
          Augusta Curtiss
          >
          >
          http://archive.org/stream/TheVoiceOfIsis2ndEdition/CurtissFhAndHaTheVoiceOfIsis2ndEdition_djvu.txt
          >
          > Rebazar Tarzs in DWTM:
          >
          > "Now for the part of union between man and woman. Unless this
          union has been made on the higher planes through pure thought, the
          physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness, for like all
          true sacraments it must be entered into and registered upon all planes.
          > "The law of divine love will bring to each Soul Its true marriage
          and union in perfect purity on all planes. This true marriage is that
          of Soul with the ECK - the polarization of each Soul - not two Souls or
          man and woman coming together. And, as it is, each Soul will be guided
          through repeated experience by divine guidance until It finds this true
          love, the love of ECK through the Mahanta. You can be spiritually as
          well as physically married to a mate only when the old accounts of both
          have been balanced, and old complications set up through mistakes of
          the past have been worked out. (p. 115)
          >
          > (My guess is that someone revised the original DWTM manuscript
          since the ECK (all caps) trademark didn't come about until 1968 and the
          Mahanta term didn't come into vogue until 1969; whereas the DWTM
          manuscript was reportedly written in 1956!)
          >
          > Now I remember (I think it was in The Tiger's Fang, Or was it The
          Eck-Vidya?) some Soul Mates controversy in Eckankar history where I
          believe Harold Klemp and Eckankar had to "correct" what Paul Twitchell
          earlier wrote. It was no longer about two people coming together, but a
          person finding (in so many words) their own "higher self".
          >
          > I haven't finished checking all the references to Soul Mates in
          all of Paul's books, so don't just go on what I quoted from DWTM.
          >
          > ***
          >
          > Btw, my Yahoo has been bouncing since Nov. 28 so I've been out of
          the loop since then and hadn't received any posts via email. Just now
          are catching up.
          >
          > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
          "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Hello Non eckchains and All,
          > > The Soulmate theory
          > > phenomena is an interesting
          > > spiritual perspective
          > > and is, actually, unlimited
          > > by conventional New Age
          > > thought. Eckankar (PT)
          > > reinvented it with a
          > > Twin-Soul perspective.
          > > This is interesting, but
          > > IMO it shouldn't be limited
          > > to or by PT's "Twin" Soul
          > > view and a single pairing
          > > only.
          > >
          > > Thus, the connection that
          > > some/many Souls have with
          > > one another (IMO) s/b referred
          > > to in the plural. Thus, Soulmates
          > > is more than one pairing.
          > > Unfortunately, for Eckists,
          > > Klemp has them locked into
          > > a "Twin" concept when there
          > > are Triplets and many more!
          > > This phenomena can be
          > > a special connection/attraction
          > > with lifelong friends, as well,
          > > and not always be with sexual
          > > partners.
          > >
          > > As far as Klemp's fraud
          > > and his "frownish and fakish"
          > > H.I.'s, well, that's to be
          > > expected when they emulate
          > > HK's own behaviour via clues
          > > with the way the EK hierarchy
          > > is run or the way in which
          > > he speaks/refers to Joan and/
          > > or tells his stories.
          > >
          > > With Klemp there's a lack
          > > of forgiveness, compassion,
          > > and empathy. These are
          > > missing from Klemp's own
          > > perspectives in his own life
          > > stories.
          > >
          > > It's easy for him to judge
          > > others and point out flaws
          > > or to add "insight" and to
          > > do EK tweaks on the letters
          > > sent to him. And, that's
          > > what Klemp does when
          > > he "writes" in his hermit
          > > batty cave.
          > >
          > > Thus, many of HK's RESAs
          > > emulate his lack of empathy,
          > > compassion, and forgiveness.
          > > They talk a lot about "love"
          > > but when it comes to the
          > > business/spiritual side of
          > > Eckankar and the "Guidelines,"
          > > as set forth by HK via the
          > > ESC, there is not much room
          > > leftover for the byproducts
          > > of love.
          > >
          > > Look at the way the Higher
          > > initiations are handed out.
          > > There are always strings
          > > attached and it has more
          > > to do with "Outer" posturing
          > > and faking it with physical
          > > requirements. What is said
          > > or isn't said to the RESA
          > > or done as a volunteer,
          > > than with anything else
          > > or with one's visible goodness,
          > > has more importance in
          > > deciding who gets a pink
          > > slip. It's not love for God.
          > > Long-time Eckists who
          > > are loyal and loving and
          > > are very nice people are
          > > excluded from becoming
          > > H.I.s because they haven't
          > > jumped through enough
          > > physical hoops of training,
          > > retraining, volunteering, etc.
          > >
          > > Or, maybe they didn't seem
          > > like a 'take charge" leader
          > > or have a college education
          > > and/or were high profile
          > > professionals. It's amazing
          > > how petty RESAs can be,
          > > and these people are the
          > > "righthand" of Klemp.
          > >
          > > In truth, many people who
          > > left Eckankar did so out of
          > > frustration caused via neglect
          > > and unloving behavior towards
          > > them. Once you've become
          > > a member their main goal
          > > has been achieved. From
          > > there they dangle the carrot
          > > for the higher initiations
          > > and, now, make it very
          > > difficult to achieve the 7th.
          > > Eckists need to become
          > > ESAs to become RESAs
          > > and unless you're already
          > > an ESA it's, now, much
          > > more difficult to achieve.
          > > And, for a 6th ESA to get
          > > the 7th they, usually, need
          > > to become a RESA.
          > >
          > > Thus, Klemp slowed-down
          > > Initiations in 1985 due to
          > > Darwin making 500 new
          > > 5ths before leaving office.
          > > So, more that 25 years later
          > > what is Klemp's excuse for
          > > not making more H.I.s and
          > > for not expanding the "outer"
          > > initiations and their numbers?
          > >
          > > It's actually a simple/obvious
          > > explanation. Klemp is selfish.
          > >
          > > Klemp's lack of empathy,
          > > compassion, forgiveness and
          > > real, true love for his fellow
          > > eckists, and the trickle-down
          > > effect within the EK Hierarchy,
          > > is why Eckankar and ECKists
          > > are broken and lost. Their
          > > delusional faith and fellowship
          > > (it's a numbers game) is
          > > what they cling to as do
          > > all religionists. Yet, as with
          > > all religionists, their faith
          > > has the only chosen ones
          > > who have been gifted with
          > > special insight into God
          > > (or whatever name they use).
          > > EK is simply more of the same
          > > but tweaked to fit a special
          > > New Age/Metaphysical mindset.
          > > It's the Easy Way until those,
          > > now, with less than 30 plus
          > > years want a 6th or 7th
          > > initiation.
          > >
          > > Prometheus
          > >
          > >
          > > "Non" eckchains wrote:
          > > I agree with a lot of what you have said here. I don't quite
          get the Soulmate
          > > though. I have been met with mostly great difficulty in
          actualizing this, even
          > > though it sounds quite nice. I am open to experiencing this,
          yet I am also
          > > naturally intuitive and also he who questions a lot and
          enjoys experimenting and
          > > investigating. Most people I meet are into holding tight to
          their beliefs and
          > > don't like being around someone like me, if I am just being
          myself. For some
          > > reason I ruffle feathers so maybe that means I need to stay
          away from certain
          > > Birds. :) I don't know the answer.
          > >
          > > As far as the sound current. My experience has been dreams of
          beautiful music
          > > sometimes, but also just feeling. Not everyone is musical.
          The sound current and
          > > light may actually be too limiting. It is based on our two
          most used human
          > > senses, seeing and hearing. There is so much more richness
          involved. We are
          > > lacking in our sense of smell and there are other senses that
          other animals know
          > > and experience that make us look like idiots sometimes.
          Humans are very arrogant
          > > because of our superior ability to manipulate our
          environment, something that if
          > > unchecked can and does cause great havoc, destruction and
          killing just to kill.
          > >
          > > Feeling and intuition is very under rated. Feelings allow us
          to have compassion
          > > and empathy. That is a vibration I wish there was more of.
          People don't like it,
          > > because it also means that we may have to relate to the pain
          of another, or to
          > > our own pain. People are too hardened IMHO. At the same time,
          bless the ones who
          > > act out of compassion to advocate and fight those who are
          indifferent to at
          > > least living with some level of a little empathy. I think
          they have compassion
          > > in them, it is just repressed, and imo is always pushing to
          express. I dare say,
          > > that even klemp and his HI's are so frownish and fakish,
          because that is how you
          > > repress feelings and natural compassion. It is harder for
          humans, because we are
          > > more self-aware. Native American life often at least had
          sacred rituals for
          > > killing to eat. We are lost..... Light and sound meditations
          may just be a
          > > distraction and limiting us from our Whole Being. We cannot
          cut off a part of
          > > ourselves and Be our Whole Being, imo.
          > >
          > > Non ; )
          > >
          > >
          > > <prometheus wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Hello Tyson, Russ, and All,
          > > > I believe that religious myth
          > > > was created to explain away
          > > > the phenomenal, and that
          > > > religion was created in order
          > > > to control the masses and,
          > > > thus, use this undertaking
          > > > for money, power, greed,
          > > > status and other self-benefits
          > > > for the hierarchies.
          > > >
          > > > The Blue Light/Blue Star?
          > > > The human mind/brain
          > > > functions similarly and
          > > > when attention is placed
          > > > upon subjects this produces
          > > > chemical and electrical
          > > > reactions. There are even
          > > > mixed but similar responses
          > > > to unconscious stimuli.
          > > > But many people realize
          > > > all of this but tend to
          > > > forget it when seeking
          > > > "spiritual" answers.
          > > >
          > > > People should not have
          > > > faith in the words of
          > > > others. People should
          > > > No Longer give others
          > > > 'the benefit of the doubt.'
          > > >
          > > > Yes, we can look at what
          > > > principles they are sharing
          > > > in order to help us to
          > > > achieve a greater realization
          > > > but we should not limit
          > > > ourselves from going
          > > > beyond the realizations
          > > > and achievements in
          > > > higher consciousness
          > > > of those we view as
          > > > ideals/icons.
          > > >
          > > > Thus, the concept of
          > > > "Master" needs to be
          > > > revised and eliminated.
          > > >
          > > > When the lessons have
          > > > been taught, via real
          > > > world examples of
          > > > living, it then becomes
          > > > our responsibility
          > > > to demonstrate what
          > > > we have learned as
          > > > it pertains to our
          > > > own unique individual
          > > > personality and
          > > > circumstances. We
          > > > move-on and into
          > > > our own unrestricted
          > > > conscious awareness.
          > > >
          > > > IMHO- Jesus, and not
          > > > always his apostles,
          > > > taught some really
          > > > advanced concepts.
          > > > Too advanced for
          > > > most of us today!
          > > >
          > > > I'll never forget this
          > > > one Fung Fu episode
          > > > where Cain ran into
          > > > some religious fanatics
          > > > who would not defend
          > > > themselves and would
          > > > turn the other cheek.
          > > > Cain showed them that
          > > > there was a third response.
          > > > Instead of becoming
          > > > a victim of violence,
          > > > or responding with
          > > > violence Cain stopped/
          > > > blocked the violence
          > > > i.e. punch or object
          > > > and redirected its
          > > > intended path.
          > > >
          > > > Anyway, I've heard
          > > > sounds when first
          > > > starting to mediate
          > > > via TM. Everyone
          > > > heard these tones.
          > > > Generally the mind
          > > > blocks out these
          > > > background noises
          > > > until it quiets down
          > > > and empties itself.
          > > > Actually, one can
          > > > follow these sounds
          > > > without placing
          > > > too much attention
          > > > on them. That's the
          > > > trick. One doesn't
          > > > place attention or
          > > > attachment on any
          > > > thought, imaginary
          > > > vision or sound no
          > > > matter how pleasant.
          > > >
          > > > Eventually, this will
          > > > produce other by-
          > > > products of awareness
          > > > such as contentment.
          > > >
          > > > I have to say that one
          > > > must discover their
          > > > own reality. Don't take
          > > > my word for anything.
          > > > Divine Awareness is
          > > > an individual experience
          > > > and not a group path.
          > > > I called it "Divine Awareness"
          > > > in oder to give this
          > > > private and personal
          > > > Discovery by Soul a
          > > > special designation.
          > > > By referring to the
          > > > uniqueness of the
          > > > individual experience
          > > > as 'Soul' does likewise.
          > > >
          > > > I will have to say that
          > > > I've had help in validating
          > > > that there is a Reality
          > > > beyond the scientific
          > > > explanations and that
          > > > of religious dogma.
          > > >
          > > > I can only say that
          > > > the Soulmate concept
          > > > (IMO) is real in that
          > > > it helps these Souls
          > > > to form a special
          > > > bond in order to merge
          > > > and harmonize their
          > > > vibrations and to better
          > > > 'tune-in' to glimpses
          > > > of, perhaps, our true
          > > > origins and potential
          > > > but also of this Here
          > > > and Now.
          > > >
          > > > Prometheus
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > "Tyson" wrote:
          > > > The sound current, bani,
          > > > shabd or nam is real.
          > > >
          > > > There is no religion that
          > > > can claim it as there own.
          > > >
          > > > What is fiction is the
          > > > dependance on a master
          > > > that is created by religions
          > > > of the light and sound.
          > > >
          > > > Only one initiation is
          > > > important.
          > > >
          > > > Yet faith in a past master
          > > > such as Christ, Krishna
          > > > or Guru Nanak is just as
          > > > valid.
          > > >
          > > > There is no mahanta.
          > > >
          > > > The blue star is no
          > > > other than a manifestation
          > > > created by a meeting
          > > > between the holy spirit
          > > > and ones higher self
          > > > (soul).
          > > >
          > > > For Harold to claim to
          > > > be the blue star is a
          > > > way to snare the gullible.
          > > > He is no more the blue
          > > > star than the second
          > > > coming of christ.
          > > >
          > > > I had heard the rushing
          > > > wind as a member of
          > > > eckankar so I wrongly
          > > > believed that this path
          > > > must be true.
          > > >
          > > > It was meditation on
          > > > the third eye that brought
          > > > the rushing wind, not
          > > > Klemp.
          > > >
          > > > Eckankar was taken from
          > > > the Sihk word Ek Ong Kar.
          > > > Ek Ong Kar means one
          > > > divine energy permeates
          > > > all things.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Russ wrote:
          > > > > I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is
          ex eckist, interviewing
          > > > David Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.
          > > >
          > > > > One of the interviewees, a man made a statement,
          paraphrasing here, that in
          > > > his mind it doesn't matter where the writings of
          eckankar come from because he
          > > > is finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it's
          more important to have
          > > a
          > > > connection with the sound current.
          > > > >
          > > > > I used to have that exact point of view. What
          changed for me?
          > > > >
          > > > > One thing I used to feel good about when talking
          about eck was this idea
          > > that
          > > > it has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was
          synonymous with the
          > > sound
          > > > current.
          > > > >
          > > > > It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored
          for a decade, after
          > > > becoming a 5th. I could no longer ignore this
          dissonance, caused by the
          > > > plaigarism and ultimately this had led to me dropping
          out of eckankar.
          > > > >
          > > > > I have a question concerning the sound current. I
          experience this sound,
          > > > sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous to
          my study of eck.
          > > Maybe
          > > > it isn't important, where you read about it, if you take
          it as a principle and
          > > > work with it.
          > > > >
          > > > > Do you folks think the sound current is bogus?
          Delusions?
          > > > >
          > > > > This is an interesting point because I am
          interested in truth...
          > > > >
          > > > > BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion,
          good work. But this by
          > > > itself doesn't go to the underlying issues concerning
          the question, "What is
          > > the
          > > > Truth regarding the idea of the sound current as a way
          of connection with the
          > > > Divine??"
          > > > >
          > > > > Thanks,
          > > > >
          > > > > Russ
          > >
          >
        • prometheus_973
          Hello Etznab and All, Yes, it makes me suspicious of any religious dogma that degrades women. Just how spiritual and advanced can it really be? It s Not!
          Message 4 of 22 , Dec 10, 2012
          • 0 Attachment
            Hello Etznab and All,
            Yes, it makes me suspicious
            of any religious dogma that
            degrades women. Just how
            "spiritual" and advanced
            can it really be? It's Not!

            But, since the Boy's Clubs
            of the World seem to run
            things it's no wonder this
            anti-female crap is written
            in all religious dogma.

            Sant Mat, which Twitchell
            "borrowed from" was no
            more advanced than all
            other "spiritual" sources
            that Twitchell used to
            "Compile" his male chauvinist
            dogma. Those male/female
            atoms and positive/negative
            batteries where the LEM
            has to be a male because
            women can't handle the
            Rod of Power is pure fiction.
            This is such a stupid ekplanation
            that you have to be brain-
            washed to believe it. BTW-
            I wonder what the "Rod"
            really symbolizes?

            Anyway, this is one more
            topic of PT's, and of Klemp's,
            that doesn't get closer
            scrutiny nor is it ever discussed
            using logic, common sense,
            or intellect. Actually, it's
            never discussed because
            there's no point right or
            wrong, the case is closed!
            Remember, HK has said,
            "Eckankar is a hierarchy
            and not a Democracy." But,
            isn't our government both
            a hierarchy and a democracy?

            Since Klemp claims to be
            imperfect and points out
            that Twitchell exaggerated
            shouldn't PT's Male requirement
            for the LEM position be revisited,
            investigated, and explained?

            Are there any EKists who
            are doctors, engineers or
            scientists? I'd like them to
            explain how the neg/pos
            male/female battery thing
            works with the physical body
            and why one needs to be
            a male in order to be the
            LEM in the Lower Planes,
            especially, here on earth!

            Prometheus

            etznab wrote:
            I find it suspect whenever the female is downgraded in comparison with
            the male. In The Tiger's Fang (according to Lord Alakh Lok?):

            "There is more to this law than just the issues which have been given
            here. No Soul can enter into the worlds above the plane of Sat Lok
            without being complete within itself - without having both completed
            the cycle of balance and entering into the oneness with its other self,
            and both gaining the traits of the other .... and in the end, as it is
            said, becoming the male or original Soul as God first put on earth.
            This Soul had the qualities which God wanted, but could not be
            manifested unless Soul was split into two particular particles, the
            negative and the positive, for both to develop." (pp. 85-86)

            My comments:

            As it is said? Lord Alakh Lok says "as it is said"?

            I wonder, Did Paul Twitchell come up with this stuff from Radhasoami
            doctrine? Quoting:

            "The higher centres in a female form are less capable of being
            developed than in a male form. All the centres of Pind, Brahmand and
            Dayal Desh do exist in a woman as they do in man. But the centres
            higher than Sunn or Daswan Dwar cannot ordinarily be awakened in a
            woman. Hence, the highest point to which the spirit or Surat in a
            female can rise, is the Daswan Dwar. For higher ascension, the same
            Surat or spirit will have to take birth as a man, and perform the
            spiritual exercises for awakening higher centres. [... .]"

            http://www.rsfaith.org/images/stories/RSFBooks/English/Holy_Epistols_Part_5/holy\
            _epistols_part_5_1.html

            Both versions on the subject are highly suspect, IMO. I think people
            probably butchered an older form of a story that subsequently took on
            Frankenstein form.

            I think there are two more sections about Soul Mates that I came across
            recently, both from Dialogues With The Master, at least one version of
            which appears to be from appropriated text.



            -----Original Message-----
            From: harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...>


            I agree. But I also think that most New Age thinking is absurd because
            it is baseless and without evidence. The soul concept cannot be proven,
            let alone the soulmate idea.

            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer
            <jepfeiffer@...> wrote:
            >
            > I can't view the concept of a soulmate being two parts of a whole
            no matter where it comes from. I don't believe any of us are half of
            a whole. Maybe Paul needed that concept as a reason for why he fell
            for Gail.ÂÂ
            >
            etznab wrote:

            >
            > I don't believe Paul Twitchell reinvented the Soul Mates thing. It
            looks to me more like he plagiarized, or paraphrased about it (adding
            his own spin as well, under the guise of Eck Masters, etc.). But hey,
            Eckankar is not a cult and it's against spiritual law to push one's
            beliefs on another :) If you don't believe me just read the FAQ section
            on Eckankar's web site. Look for the question: Is Eckankar a cult?
            >
            > ***
            >
            > There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book, Dialogues With The
            Master (1970), called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.
            >
            > Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness (first published in
            1913?) - and compare the text with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to
            Paul Twitchell in Dialogues With The Master.
            >
            >
            http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up
            >
            >
            http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNo\
            mad.pdf
            >
            > ***
            >
            > Remember that controversial subject of Soul Mates which appeared
            in Paul Twitche;ll's earlier books (I thought it was TTF, but here is
            something in DWTM)?
            >
            > Ali Nomad:
            >
            > Each and every SOUL, therefore, has its spiritual counterpart--its
            "other half," with which it unites on the spiritual plane, when the
            time comes for attainment of immortality.
            >
            > Lord Sohang:
            >
            > "Each and every Soul, therefore, in the lower worlds has its
            spiritual counterpart - its other half with which it unites on the
            spiritual plane, when the time comes for the attainment of the highest
            goal of the world of Brahm and that counterpart is the ECK Spirit."
            (DWTM p. 176)
            >
            >
            https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!searchin/alt.religion.eck\
            ankar/soul$20mates|sort:date/alt.religion.eckankar/9_e16rhw3gA/3VmvQQ811QsJ
            >
            > Now of course it depends on who Paul Twitchell is plagiarizing, as
            the information can vary. It can even appear contradictory. Example:
            >
            > [...] But unless the union has already been made in heaven through
            pure love, the physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness,
            for like all true sacraments it must be entered into and registered
            upon all planes. (p. 220)

            > The Law of Divine Love will bring to each Soul its true marriage,
            a union in perfect purity on all planes. This according to the one
            life-theory is of course impossible for all; but since reincarnation is
            a fact, the Soul, through repeated experiences, learns to follow its
            Divine Guidance, hence will ultimately find its true mate. But they can
            be spiritually as well as physically married to their mates only when
            the old accounts of both have been balanced and the old complications
            set up through the mistakes of the past have been worked out. [... .].
            (p. 221)
            >
            > The Voice Of Isis And Realms Of The Living Dead, by Harriett
            Augusta Curtiss
            >
            >
            http://archive.org/stream/TheVoiceOfIsis2ndEdition/CurtissFhAndHaTheVoiceOfIsis2\
            ndEdition_djvu.txt
            >
            > Rebazar Tarzs in DWTM:
            >
            > "Now for the part of union between man and woman. Unless this
            union has been made on the higher planes through pure thought, the
            physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness, for like all
            true sacraments it must be entered into and registered upon all planes.
            > "The law of divine love will bring to each Soul Its true marriage
            and union in perfect purity on all planes. This true marriage is that
            of Soul with the ECK - the polarization of each Soul - not two Souls or
            man and woman coming together. And, as it is, each Soul will be guided
            through repeated experience by divine guidance until It finds this true
            love, the love of ECK through the Mahanta. You can be spiritually as
            well as physically married to a mate only when the old accounts of both
            have been balanced, and old complications set up through mistakes of
            the past have been worked out. (p. 115)
            >
            > (My guess is that someone revised the original DWTM manuscript
            since the ECK (all caps) trademark didn't come about until 1968 and the
            Mahanta term didn't come into vogue until 1969; whereas the DWTM
            manuscript was reportedly written in 1956!)
            >
            > Now I remember (I think it was in The Tiger's Fang, Or was it The
            Eck-Vidya?) some Soul Mates controversy in Eckankar history where I
            believe Harold Klemp and Eckankar had to "correct" what Paul Twitchell
            earlier wrote. It was no longer about two people coming together, but a
            person finding (in so many words) their own "higher self".
            >
            > I haven't finished checking all the references to Soul Mates in
            all of Paul's books, so don't just go on what I quoted from DWTM.
            >
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