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Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the Sound Current?

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello Non and Russ, I too was once involved with metaphysics via The Unity School of Christianity. And, have explored Christian Science, to a degree, as well
    Message 1 of 22 , Dec 9, 2012
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      Hello Non and Russ,
      I too was once involved
      with metaphysics via
      The Unity School of
      Christianity. And, have
      explored Christian
      Science, to a degree,
      as well as other
      metaphysical thought
      prior to Eckankar.

      The danger is that
      New Age thought
      (Revised Metaphysics),
      and religious cults
      as Eckankar et al.,
      will encourage people
      to follow their Faith
      in alternative cultish
      cures such as positive
      thinking, white magic,
      homeopathy and other
      non orthodox magical/
      mystical/natural forms
      of medicine/healing.
      Healing Crystals anyone?

      But, these alternative
      treatments only go
      so far and these treatments
      can sometimes mask
      or hide serious health
      problems. People can
      confuse symptoms
      and side-effects and,
      via blind faith, will not
      seek timely traditional
      treatment proven to
      help or cure, until, it
      becomes too late!

      Those who put their
      faith and trust in the
      ECK and in Klemp and
      who think that HUing
      will help to heal them
      are deluded.

      EKists emulate Klemp
      with his focus on
      alternative medicine,
      but even Klemp, after
      falling on Black Ice
      and breaking his hip,
      needed to have surgery
      and metal work and
      was given pain meds
      and even asked for more!

      It's true that traditional
      medicine and prescription
      drugs are a racket of sorts,
      but vitamins and herbal
      remedies etc. are a racket
      too! And that applies to
      many other alternative
      forms of (metaphysical)
      New Age medicine and
      health remedies.

      Anyway, here's an excerpt
      from the below site. To me
      it shows a time-line of how
      people came to mistrust
      traditional medicine and the
      role that non traditional religion
      or psychic spirituality had
      to play.

      However, just because
      traditional Western Religion
      and Medicine had stumbled
      together doesn't mean that
      they are connected to each
      other. Western Medicine is
      based upon Science whereas
      Religion isn't! Neither Eastern
      or Western Religion, or their
      sects, are based upon facts.
      It's all about dogma based
      upon opposing beliefs and
      divine authority via revelation.

      And, individually, it's mostly
      about subjective faith and
      belief which is why non-
      traditional alternative forms
      of "medicine" are connected
      to non-traditional New Age
      thought and to metaphysics
      in general. Personally, I don't
      trust Western Medicine or
      doctors completely, but
      I don't trust Alternative
      Medicine at all... unlike
      many ECKists. Still, it's
      funny seeing ECKists
      accepting their Mahanta
      sitting in a wheelchair as
      though there's no significance
      as to how it happened or
      that it happened at all.

      http://www.icsahome.com/logon/elibdocview.asp?Subject=The+Queen+of+the+New+Age+

      "Hay's Religious Science is an example of what the scholar Catherine L. Albanese calls metaphysical religion, a tradition that began spreading in America in the mid-19th century. "For metaphysics," Albanese writes in "A Republic of Mind and Spirit," "religion turns on an individual's experience of `mind' (instead of `heart,' as in evangelicalism)." Metaphysical religion includes intuition or psychic work, clairvoyance and channeling otherworldly figures, and forms of it have been popularized in, for example, Christian Science, which its founder, Mary Baker Eddy, said would allow people to cure disease with prayer, and books like "The Power of Positive Thinking," by the preacher Norman Vincent Peale. What they all have in common — Christian Science; its cousin Religious Science; Peale's 1952 megaseller; and contemporary best sellers like Rhonda Byrne's "The Secret" — is a conviction that proper thinking, rather than religious faith or fervor, is the key to metaphysical power.

      Metaphysical religion has frequently stepped into the breach where Western medicine and Western religion will not or cannot go. When I asked The Rev. Wade Adkisson, the current pastor of Hay's old Church of Religious Science, why as a new church in the 1930s it appealed to people, he said: "At that time the medical world was very basic. A doctor carried with him two things: a bottle of whiskey and a knife. So people were looking for alternative methods of healing." Of course, Adkisson says he believes in those alternative methods of healing. If, as he says, "cancer is merely the outpicturing of one's emotional state," then it can be cured with prayer. But he also admits that for marketing mind cures in the 1930s, it helped that traditional medicine was so impoverished."

      Non wrote:
      >
      > On the Truth vs. Fiction part and books from the 1910 era, I found an interesting article about Louise Hay and how her popularity really increased due to her involvement with the Aids epidemic, especially in California. On the one hand she offered the hope of complete healing, while at the same time giving a disclaimer by saying that the healing may only be spiritual and not necessarily physical. (sounds kind of like what klemp and the like always do!) It is asserted that most of the dogma about the absolute power of positive thought, or whatever, was most popular when science or medicine didn't have clear evidence for a good cure to illness. Those with Aids were being shunned, especially by organized religions. I found this article doing some searches on New Age and Angels.
      >
      http://www.icsahome.com/logon/elibdocview.asp?Subject=The+Queen+of+the+New+Age+
      >
      > I just thought it was interesting that what is really going on with New Age Religion is 'just a little bit of history repeating'.
      > :D
      > Then again I have come to the conclusion that all religions have their myths and angles to pray to for this or that. You might say that eck masters are just like angels or saints or what have you. It's all kind of the same stuff, just different depending on the culture. Name the religion and there will be variations and even changes as a result of cultural or tribal tendencies. Imagine what ekankar is really like in Africa or India or in the U.S. Has Klemp ever made a trip to Africa?
      >
      > Non ; )
      >
      > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Hello Etznab,
      > > I was reading some
      > > of this book, which
      > > was written in 1913
      > > or 15, and just about
      > > every page sounds
      > > a lot like Twitchell's
      > > various writings.
      > >
      > > Twitchell must have
      > > plagiarized the hell
      > > out of this in order
      > > to create his EK dogma
      > > and to make himself
      > > seem spiritually advanced,
      > > knowledgable, and
      > > wise. And, since PT
      > > was a narcissist he
      > > probably used this
      > > info to impress others,
      > > including Gail, when,
      > > in truth, he was a
      > > mere wannabe, liar,
      > > and plagiarist.
      > >
      > > Prometheus
      > >
      > >
      > > Etznab wrote:
      > >
      > > There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book,
      > > Dialogues With The Master (1970),
      > > called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.
      > >
      > > Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness
      > > (first published in 1913?) - and compare the text
      > > with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to Paul
      > > Twitchell in Dialogues With The Master.
      > >
      > > http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up
      > > http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNo\
      > > \\\mad.pdf
      > >
      >
    • Janice Pfeiffer
      Thank you Non for your reply.  I guess I understand more about what you said.  Good luck, ... From: Non Subject:
      Message 2 of 22 , Dec 9, 2012
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        Thank you Non for your reply.  I guess I understand more about what you said.  Good luck,

        --- On Wed, 12/5/12, Non <eckchains@...> wrote:

        From: Non <eckchains@...>
        Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the Sound Current?
        To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Wednesday, December 5, 2012, 8:13 AM

         
        Janice, I just have to say, that in person I am very shy and soft spoken, it's just that what I say may be disagreeable as it is often to the point, even if I try to express it gently. A friend of mine once sent me a card that said "It is better to be hated for who you are than loved for who you are not." My writing style is different than how I speak. I actually speak slowly and often have problems with people who talk fast. Actually, my main problem might be that in person I am afraid to simply be who I am. I am very sensitive to most people I meet, to a fault and spend more time listening, when I should probably be more spontaneous and even abrasive.

        I think you are only seeing one side of me, as I express myself more directly in some of these blogs, and yes I hold in some anger that is more easily expressed in writing. I still have a problem with wanting to trust the cons too much, and yes getting taken. There seems to be more people than I remember who are callous and mean these days. Maybe hard times do that to people. I'm actually too nice in person, but it is based on both a sense of compassion as well as some guilt about my right to just be who I am. Sometimes it is OK to be just plain rude imo and not nice all the time, especially if someone is trying to push their arrogant, dogmatic spirituality/religion onto you.

        Non ;)

        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer <jepfeiffer@...> wrote:
        >
        > I too agree with Prometheus.  He and I have formed a lot of the same concepts it seems.  As far as the soul mate thing, Non, I don't think it is something you can make.  You are just fortunate when you meet some one that feels like an echo from the past.  You just know that you know them and you know so much about each other with out knowing how you know when you first meet.  My soul mate is gone now but we had something right from the start that couldn't be explained in words.  We could speak in half sentences and have perfect understanding.  He knew my thoughts and could feel my feelings.  He knew what I liked with out being told.  We could enjoy silence and not need to talk.  There was just something very real between us that didn't come from the present and didn't make logical sense in the physical world.  I do hope that at some point, you know what I am saying.  It is a very precious thing to have.  Maybe everyone doesn't have it in
        > every life time.  It is true that you do express yourself sometimes in a some what abrasive manner but you also show a lot of insight at times and I have seen a lot of compassion in what you say also at times.  In your search, it would help if maybe you weren't quite so blunt with those you don't know well.  Wouldn't it be terrible if you chased a way the very one who does know you but because of a sharp initial few words, doesn't have a chance to take a good look and see that?  My experience when meeting people face to face is if there is a strong pull or a strong repulsion, it most likely does mean, you've known them before.  Sometimes it helps to just stand still and let the other person show you who they are.  About holding on to beliefs; I find religious people need to do that whereas spiritual people tend to change theirs as they evolve with more understanding.  That's what caused most of us to get into eckankar and what caused most of us
        > to get out.  I use to feel angry about the lies but now I even feel a little gratitude for eckanar.  I never was one to accept things at face value and I usually wasn't fooled easily but I certainly was by eckankar.  It was a real experience.  It changed my life.  Not in the way, they intended maybe but I am now stronger, even more independent and I now know for the rest of my life, I can never be a part of any organized religious group again.  I think part of the reason I got into eckankar is I thought I needed to find those who were like me and I hoped that was it.  It wasn't but I thought I needed it to be.  Now I know I don't need that.  That's what it taught me.  Through it, I learned something of value about myself so it was a worthwhile experience.  Good luck with your search.  I hope you find just what you want.  Oh, don't forget to stand still; don't rush it and don't push it away.  Sound current and senses is another story for me
        > so I won't comment now.  Again, all the best to you now and always. 
        > --- On Tue, 12/4/12, Non <eckchains@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > From: Non <eckchains@...>
        > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the Sound Current?
        > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Tuesday, December 4, 2012, 9:28 AM
        >
        >
        >
        >  
        >
        >
        >
        > I agree with a lot of what you have said here. I don't quite get the Soulmate though. I have been met with mostly great difficulty in actualizing this, even though it sounds quite nice. I am open to experiencing this, yet I am also naturally intuitive and also he who questions a lot and enjoys experimenting and investigating. Most people I meet are into holding tight to their beliefs and don't like being around someone like me, if I am just being myself. For some reason I ruffle feathers so maybe that means I need to stay away from certain Birds. :) I don't know the answer.
        >
        > As far as the sound current. My experience has been dreams of beautiful music sometimes, but also just feeling. Not everyone is musical. The sound current and light may actually be too limiting. It is based on our two most used human senses, seeing and hearing. There is so much more richness involved. We are lacking in our sense of smell and there are other senses that other animals know and experience that make us look like idiots sometimes. Humans are very arrogant because of our superior ability to manipulate our environment, something that if unchecked can and does cause great havoc, destruction and killing just to kill.
        >
        > Feeling and intuition is very under rated. Feelings allow us to have compassion and empathy. That is a vibration I wish there was more of. People don't like it, because it also means that we may have to relate to the pain of another, or to our own pain. People are too hardened IMHO. At the same time, bless the ones who act out of compassion to advocate and fight those who are indifferent to at least living with some level of a little empathy. I think they have compassion in them, it is just repressed, and imo is always pushing to express. I dare say, that even klemp and his HI's are so frownish and fakish, because that is how you repress feelings and natural compassion. It is harder for humans, because we are more self-aware. Native American life often at least had sacred rituals for killing to eat. We are lost..... Light and sound meditations may just be a distraction and limiting us from our Whole Being. We cannot cut off a part of ourselves and Be our
        > Whole Being, imo.
        >
        > Non ; )
        >
        > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hello Tyson, Russ, and All,
        > > I believe that religious myth
        > > was created to explain away
        > > the phenomenal, and that
        > > religion was created in order
        > > to control the masses and,
        > > thus, use this undertaking
        > > for money, power, greed,
        > > status and other self-benefits
        > > for the hierarchies.
        > >
        > > The Blue Light/Blue Star?
        > > The human mind/brain
        > > functions similarly and
        > > when attention is placed
        > > upon subjects this produces
        > > chemical and electrical
        > > reactions. There are even
        > > mixed but similar responses
        > > to unconscious stimuli.
        > > But many people realize
        > > all of this but tend to
        > > forget it when seeking
        > > "spiritual" answers.
        > >
        > > People should not have
        > > faith in the words of
        > > others. People should
        > > No Longer give others
        > > 'the benefit of the doubt.'
        > >
        > > Yes, we can look at what
        > > principles they are sharing
        > > in order to help us to
        > > achieve a greater realization
        > > but we should not limit
        > > ourselves from going
        > > beyond the realizations
        > > and achievements in
        > > higher consciousness
        > > of those we view as
        > > ideals/icons.
        > >
        > > Thus, the concept of
        > > "Master" needs to be
        > > revised and eliminated.
        > >
        > > When the lessons have
        > > been taught, via real
        > > world examples of
        > > living, it then becomes
        > > our responsibility
        > > to demonstrate what
        > > we have learned as
        > > it pertains to our
        > > own unique individual
        > > personality and
        > > circumstances. We
        > > move-on and into
        > > our own unrestricted
        > > conscious awareness.
        > >
        > > IMHO- Jesus, and not
        > > always his apostles,
        > > taught some really
        > > advanced concepts.
        > > Too advanced for
        > > most of us today!
        > >
        > > I'll never forget this
        > > one Fung Fu episode
        > > where Cain ran into
        > > some religious fanatics
        > > who would not defend
        > > themselves and would
        > > turn the other cheek.
        > > Cain showed them that
        > > there was a third response.
        > > Instead of becoming
        > > a victim of violence,
        > > or responding with
        > > violence Cain stopped/
        > > blocked the violence
        > > i.e. punch or object
        > > and redirected its
        > > intended path.
        > >
        > > Anyway, I've heard
        > > sounds when first
        > > starting to mediate
        > > via TM. Everyone
        > > heard these tones.
        > > Generally the mind
        > > blocks out these
        > > background noises
        > > until it quiets down
        > > and empties itself.
        > > Actually, one can
        > > follow these sounds
        > > without placing
        > > too much attention
        > > on them. That's the
        > > trick. One doesn't
        > > place attention or
        > > attachment on any
        > > thought, imaginary
        > > vision or sound no
        > > matter how pleasant.
        > >
        > > Eventually, this will
        > > produce other by-
        > > products of awareness
        > > such as contentment.
        > >
        > > I have to say that one
        > > must discover their
        > > own reality. Don't take
        > > my word for anything.
        > > Divine Awareness is
        > > an individual experience
        > > and not a group path.
        > > I called it "Divine Awareness"
        > > in oder to give this
        > > private and personal
        > > Discovery by Soul a
        > > special designation.
        > > By referring to the
        > > uniqueness of the
        > > individual experience
        > > as 'Soul' does likewise.
        > >
        > > I will have to say that
        > > I've had help in validating
        > > that there is a Reality
        > > beyond the scientific
        > > explanations and that
        > > of religious dogma.
        > >
        > > I can only say that
        > > the Soulmate concept
        > > (IMO) is real in that
        > > it helps these Souls
        > > to form a special
        > > bond in order to merge
        > > and harmonize their
        > > vibrations and to better
        > > 'tune-in' to glimpses
        > > of, perhaps, our true
        > > origins and potential
        > > but also of this Here
        > > and Now.
        > >
        > > Prometheus
        > >
        > >
        > > "Tyson" wrote:
        > > The sound current, bani,
        > > shabd or nam is real.
        > >
        > > There is no religion that
        > > can claim it as there own.
        > >
        > > What is fiction is the
        > > dependance on a master
        > > that is created by religions
        > > of the light and sound.
        > >
        > > Only one initiation is
        > > important.
        > >
        > > Yet faith in a past master
        > > such as Christ, Krishna
        > > or Guru Nanak is just as
        > > valid.
        > >
        > > There is no mahanta.
        > >
        > > The blue star is no
        > > other than a manifestation
        > > created by a meeting
        > > between the holy spirit
        > > and ones higher self
        > > (soul).
        > >
        > > For Harold to claim to
        > > be the blue star is a
        > > way to snare the gullible.
        > > He is no more the blue
        > > star than the second
        > > coming of christ.
        > >
        > > I had heard the rushing
        > > wind as a member of
        > > eckankar so I wrongly
        > > believed that this path
        > > must be true.
        > >
        > > It was meditation on
        > > the third eye that brought
        > > the rushing wind, not
        > > Klemp.
        > >
        > > Eckankar was taken from
        > > the Sihk word Ek Ong Kar.
        > > Ek Ong Kar means one
        > > divine energy permeates
        > > all things.
        > >
        > >
        > > Russ wrote:
        > > > I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is ex eckist, interviewing
        > > David Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.
        > >
        > > > One of the interviewees, a man made a statement, paraphrasing here, that in
        > > his mind it doesn't matter where the writings of eckankar come from because he
        > > is finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it's more important to have a
        > > connection with the sound current.
        > > >
        > > > I used to have that exact point of view. What changed for me?
        > > >
        > > > One thing I used to feel good about when talking about eck was this idea that
        > > it has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was synonymous with the sound
        > > current.
        > > >
        > > > It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored for a decade, after
        > > becoming a 5th. I could no longer ignore this dissonance, caused by the
        > > plaigarism and ultimately this had led to me dropping out of eckankar.
        > > >
        > > > I have a question concerning the sound current. I experience this sound,
        > > sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous to my study of eck. Maybe
        > > it isn't important, where you read about it, if you take it as a principle and
        > > work with it.
        > > >
        > > > Do you folks think the sound current is bogus? Delusions?
        > > >
        > > > This is an interesting point because I am interested in truth...
        > > >
        > > > BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion, good work. But this by
        > > itself doesn't go to the underlying issues concerning the question, "What is the
        > > Truth regarding the idea of the sound current as a way of connection with the
        > > Divine??"
        > > >
        > > > Thanks,
        > > >
        > > > Russ
        > > >
        > >
        >

      • Janice Pfeiffer
        I can t view the concept of a soulmate being two parts of a whole no matter where it comes from.  I don t believe any of us are half of a whole.  Maybe Paul
        Message 3 of 22 , Dec 9, 2012
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          I can't view the concept of a soulmate being two parts of a whole no matter where it comes from.  I don't believe any of us are half of a whole.  Maybe Paul needed that concept as a reason for why he fell for Gail. 

          --- On Sat, 12/8/12, etznab18 <etznab@...> wrote:

          From: etznab18 <etznab@...>
          Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the Sound Current?
          To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Saturday, December 8, 2012, 5:11 AM

           
          I don't believe Paul Twitchell reinvented the Soul Mates thing. It looks to me more like he plagiarized, or paraphrased about it (adding his own spin as well, under the guise of Eck Masters, etc.). But hey, Eckankar is not a cult and it's against spiritual law to push one's beliefs on another :) If you don't believe me just read the FAQ section on Eckankar's web site. Look for the question: Is Eckankar a cult?

          ***

          There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book, Dialogues With The Master (1970), called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.

          Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness (first published in 1913?) - and compare the text with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to Paul Twitchell in Dialogues With The Master.

          http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up

          http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNomad.pdf

          ***

          Remember that controversial subject of Soul Mates which appeared in Paul Twitche;ll's earlier books (I thought it was TTF, but here is something in DWTM)?

          Ali Nomad:

          Each and every SOUL, therefore, has its spiritual counterpart--its "other half," with which it unites on the spiritual plane, when the time comes for attainment of immortality.

          Lord Sohang:

          "Each and every Soul, therefore, in the lower worlds has its spiritual counterpart - its other half with which it unites on the spiritual plane, when the time comes for the attainment of the highest goal of the world of Brahm and that counterpart is the ECK Spirit." (DWTM p. 176)

          https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!searchin/alt.religion.eckankar/soul$20mates|sort:date/alt.religion.eckankar/9_e16rhw3gA/3VmvQQ811QsJ

          Now of course it depends on who Paul Twitchell is plagiarizing, as the information can vary. It can even appear contradictory. Example:

          [...] But unless the union has already been made in heaven through pure love, the physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness, for like all true sacraments it must be entered into and registered upon all planes. (p. 220)
          The Law of Divine Love will bring to each Soul its true marriage, a union in perfect purity on all planes. This according to the one life-theory is of course impossible for all; but since reincarnation is a fact, the Soul, through repeated experiences, learns to follow its Divine Guidance, hence will ultimately find its true mate. But they can be spiritually as well as physically married to their mates only when the old accounts of both have been balanced and the old complications set up through the mistakes of the past have been worked out. [... .]. (p. 221)

          The Voice Of Isis And Realms Of The Living Dead, by Harriett Augusta Curtiss

          http://archive.org/stream/TheVoiceOfIsis2ndEdition/CurtissFhAndHaTheVoiceOfIsis2ndEdition_djvu.txt

          Rebazar Tarzs in DWTM:

          "Now for the part of union between man and woman. Unless this union has been made on the higher planes through pure thought, the physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness, for like all true sacraments it must be entered into and registered upon all planes.
          "The law of divine love will bring to each Soul Its true marriage and union in perfect purity on all planes. This true marriage is that of Soul with the ECK - the polarization of each Soul - not two Souls or man and woman coming together. And, as it is, each Soul will be guided through repeated experience by divine guidance until It finds this true love, the love of ECK through the Mahanta. You can be spiritually as well as physically married to a mate only when the old accounts of both have been balanced, and old complications set up through mistakes of the past have been worked out. (p. 115)

          (My guess is that someone revised the original DWTM manuscript since the ECK (all caps) trademark didn't come about until 1968 and the Mahanta term didn't come into vogue until 1969; whereas the DWTM manuscript was reportedly written in 1956!)

          Now I remember (I think it was in The Tiger's Fang, Or was it The Eck-Vidya?) some Soul Mates controversy in Eckankar history where I believe Harold Klemp and Eckankar had to "correct" what Paul Twitchell earlier wrote. It was no longer about two people coming together, but a person finding (in so many words) their own "higher self".

          I haven't finished checking all the references to Soul Mates in all of Paul's books, so don't just go on what I quoted from DWTM.

          ***

          Btw, my Yahoo has been bouncing since Nov. 28 so I've been out of the loop since then and hadn't received any posts via email. Just now are catching up.

          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello Non eckchains and All,
          > The Soulmate theory
          > phenomena is an interesting
          > spiritual perspective
          > and is, actually, unlimited
          > by conventional New Age
          > thought. Eckankar (PT)
          > reinvented it with a
          > Twin-Soul perspective.
          > This is interesting, but
          > IMO it shouldn't be limited
          > to or by PT's "Twin" Soul
          > view and a single pairing
          > only.
          >
          > Thus, the connection that
          > some/many Souls have with
          > one another (IMO) s/b referred
          > to in the plural. Thus, Soulmates
          > is more than one pairing.
          > Unfortunately, for Eckists,
          > Klemp has them locked into
          > a "Twin" concept when there
          > are Triplets and many more!
          > This phenomena can be
          > a special connection/attraction
          > with lifelong friends, as well,
          > and not always be with sexual
          > partners.
          >
          > As far as Klemp's fraud
          > and his "frownish and fakish"
          > H.I.'s, well, that's to be
          > expected when they emulate
          > HK's own behaviour via clues
          > with the way the EK hierarchy
          > is run or the way in which
          > he speaks/refers to Joan and/
          > or tells his stories.
          >
          > With Klemp there's a lack
          > of forgiveness, compassion,
          > and empathy. These are
          > missing from Klemp's own
          > perspectives in his own life
          > stories.
          >
          > It's easy for him to judge
          > others and point out flaws
          > or to add "insight" and to
          > do EK tweaks on the letters
          > sent to him. And, that's
          > what Klemp does when
          > he "writes" in his hermit
          > batty cave.
          >
          > Thus, many of HK's RESAs
          > emulate his lack of empathy,
          > compassion, and forgiveness.
          > They talk a lot about "love"
          > but when it comes to the
          > business/spiritual side of
          > Eckankar and the "Guidelines,"
          > as set forth by HK via the
          > ESC, there is not much room
          > leftover for the byproducts
          > of love.
          >
          > Look at the way the Higher
          > initiations are handed out.
          > There are always strings
          > attached and it has more
          > to do with "Outer" posturing
          > and faking it with physical
          > requirements. What is said
          > or isn't said to the RESA
          > or done as a volunteer,
          > than with anything else
          > or with one's visible goodness,
          > has more importance in
          > deciding who gets a pink
          > slip. It's not love for God.
          > Long-time Eckists who
          > are loyal and loving and
          > are very nice people are
          > excluded from becoming
          > H.I.s because they haven't
          > jumped through enough
          > physical hoops of training,
          > retraining, volunteering, etc.
          >
          > Or, maybe they didn't seem
          > like a 'take charge" leader
          > or have a college education
          > and/or were high profile
          > professionals. It's amazing
          > how petty RESAs can be,
          > and these people are the
          > "righthand" of Klemp.
          >
          > In truth, many people who
          > left Eckankar did so out of
          > frustration caused via neglect
          > and unloving behavior towards
          > them. Once you've become
          > a member their main goal
          > has been achieved. From
          > there they dangle the carrot
          > for the higher initiations
          > and, now, make it very
          > difficult to achieve the 7th.
          > Eckists need to become
          > ESAs to become RESAs
          > and unless you're already
          > an ESA it's, now, much
          > more difficult to achieve.
          > And, for a 6th ESA to get
          > the 7th they, usually, need
          > to become a RESA.
          >
          > Thus, Klemp slowed-down
          > Initiations in 1985 due to
          > Darwin making 500 new
          > 5ths before leaving office.
          > So, more that 25 years later
          > what is Klemp's excuse for
          > not making more H.I.s and
          > for not expanding the "outer"
          > initiations and their numbers?
          >
          > It's actually a simple/obvious
          > explanation. Klemp is selfish.
          >
          > Klemp's lack of empathy,
          > compassion, forgiveness and
          > real, true love for his fellow
          > eckists, and the trickle-down
          > effect within the EK Hierarchy,
          > is why Eckankar and ECKists
          > are broken and lost. Their
          > delusional faith and fellowship
          > (it's a numbers game) is
          > what they cling to as do
          > all religionists. Yet, as with
          > all religionists, their faith
          > has the only chosen ones
          > who have been gifted with
          > special insight into God
          > (or whatever name they use).
          > EK is simply more of the same
          > but tweaked to fit a special
          > New Age/Metaphysical mindset.
          > It's the Easy Way until those,
          > now, with less than 30 plus
          > years want a 6th or 7th
          > initiation.
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
          >
          > "Non" eckchains wrote:
          > I agree with a lot of what you have said here. I don't quite get the Soulmate
          > though. I have been met with mostly great difficulty in actualizing this, even
          > though it sounds quite nice. I am open to experiencing this, yet I am also
          > naturally intuitive and also he who questions a lot and enjoys experimenting and
          > investigating. Most people I meet are into holding tight to their beliefs and
          > don't like being around someone like me, if I am just being myself. For some
          > reason I ruffle feathers so maybe that means I need to stay away from certain
          > Birds. :) I don't know the answer.
          >
          > As far as the sound current. My experience has been dreams of beautiful music
          > sometimes, but also just feeling. Not everyone is musical. The sound current and
          > light may actually be too limiting. It is based on our two most used human
          > senses, seeing and hearing. There is so much more richness involved. We are
          > lacking in our sense of smell and there are other senses that other animals know
          > and experience that make us look like idiots sometimes. Humans are very arrogant
          > because of our superior ability to manipulate our environment, something that if
          > unchecked can and does cause great havoc, destruction and killing just to kill.
          >
          > Feeling and intuition is very under rated. Feelings allow us to have compassion
          > and empathy. That is a vibration I wish there was more of. People don't like it,
          > because it also means that we may have to relate to the pain of another, or to
          > our own pain. People are too hardened IMHO. At the same time, bless the ones who
          > act out of compassion to advocate and fight those who are indifferent to at
          > least living with some level of a little empathy. I think they have compassion
          > in them, it is just repressed, and imo is always pushing to express. I dare say,
          > that even klemp and his HI's are so frownish and fakish, because that is how you
          > repress feelings and natural compassion. It is harder for humans, because we are
          > more self-aware. Native American life often at least had sacred rituals for
          > killing to eat. We are lost..... Light and sound meditations may just be a
          > distraction and limiting us from our Whole Being. We cannot cut off a part of
          > ourselves and Be our Whole Being, imo.
          >
          > Non ; )
          >
          >
          > <prometheus wrote:
          > >
          > > Hello Tyson, Russ, and All,
          > > I believe that religious myth
          > > was created to explain away
          > > the phenomenal, and that
          > > religion was created in order
          > > to control the masses and,
          > > thus, use this undertaking
          > > for money, power, greed,
          > > status and other self-benefits
          > > for the hierarchies.
          > >
          > > The Blue Light/Blue Star?
          > > The human mind/brain
          > > functions similarly and
          > > when attention is placed
          > > upon subjects this produces
          > > chemical and electrical
          > > reactions. There are even
          > > mixed but similar responses
          > > to unconscious stimuli.
          > > But many people realize
          > > all of this but tend to
          > > forget it when seeking
          > > "spiritual" answers.
          > >
          > > People should not have
          > > faith in the words of
          > > others. People should
          > > No Longer give others
          > > 'the benefit of the doubt.'
          > >
          > > Yes, we can look at what
          > > principles they are sharing
          > > in order to help us to
          > > achieve a greater realization
          > > but we should not limit
          > > ourselves from going
          > > beyond the realizations
          > > and achievements in
          > > higher consciousness
          > > of those we view as
          > > ideals/icons.
          > >
          > > Thus, the concept of
          > > "Master" needs to be
          > > revised and eliminated.
          > >
          > > When the lessons have
          > > been taught, via real
          > > world examples of
          > > living, it then becomes
          > > our responsibility
          > > to demonstrate what
          > > we have learned as
          > > it pertains to our
          > > own unique individual
          > > personality and
          > > circumstances. We
          > > move-on and into
          > > our own unrestricted
          > > conscious awareness.
          > >
          > > IMHO- Jesus, and not
          > > always his apostles,
          > > taught some really
          > > advanced concepts.
          > > Too advanced for
          > > most of us today!
          > >
          > > I'll never forget this
          > > one Fung Fu episode
          > > where Cain ran into
          > > some religious fanatics
          > > who would not defend
          > > themselves and would
          > > turn the other cheek.
          > > Cain showed them that
          > > there was a third response.
          > > Instead of becoming
          > > a victim of violence,
          > > or responding with
          > > violence Cain stopped/
          > > blocked the violence
          > > i.e. punch or object
          > > and redirected its
          > > intended path.
          > >
          > > Anyway, I've heard
          > > sounds when first
          > > starting to mediate
          > > via TM. Everyone
          > > heard these tones.
          > > Generally the mind
          > > blocks out these
          > > background noises
          > > until it quiets down
          > > and empties itself.
          > > Actually, one can
          > > follow these sounds
          > > without placing
          > > too much attention
          > > on them. That's the
          > > trick. One doesn't
          > > place attention or
          > > attachment on any
          > > thought, imaginary
          > > vision or sound no
          > > matter how pleasant.
          > >
          > > Eventually, this will
          > > produce other by-
          > > products of awareness
          > > such as contentment.
          > >
          > > I have to say that one
          > > must discover their
          > > own reality. Don't take
          > > my word for anything.
          > > Divine Awareness is
          > > an individual experience
          > > and not a group path.
          > > I called it "Divine Awareness"
          > > in oder to give this
          > > private and personal
          > > Discovery by Soul a
          > > special designation.
          > > By referring to the
          > > uniqueness of the
          > > individual experience
          > > as 'Soul' does likewise.
          > >
          > > I will have to say that
          > > I've had help in validating
          > > that there is a Reality
          > > beyond the scientific
          > > explanations and that
          > > of religious dogma.
          > >
          > > I can only say that
          > > the Soulmate concept
          > > (IMO) is real in that
          > > it helps these Souls
          > > to form a special
          > > bond in order to merge
          > > and harmonize their
          > > vibrations and to better
          > > 'tune-in' to glimpses
          > > of, perhaps, our true
          > > origins and potential
          > > but also of this Here
          > > and Now.
          > >
          > > Prometheus
          > >
          > >
          > > "Tyson" wrote:
          > > The sound current, bani,
          > > shabd or nam is real.
          > >
          > > There is no religion that
          > > can claim it as there own.
          > >
          > > What is fiction is the
          > > dependance on a master
          > > that is created by religions
          > > of the light and sound.
          > >
          > > Only one initiation is
          > > important.
          > >
          > > Yet faith in a past master
          > > such as Christ, Krishna
          > > or Guru Nanak is just as
          > > valid.
          > >
          > > There is no mahanta.
          > >
          > > The blue star is no
          > > other than a manifestation
          > > created by a meeting
          > > between the holy spirit
          > > and ones higher self
          > > (soul).
          > >
          > > For Harold to claim to
          > > be the blue star is a
          > > way to snare the gullible.
          > > He is no more the blue
          > > star than the second
          > > coming of christ.
          > >
          > > I had heard the rushing
          > > wind as a member of
          > > eckankar so I wrongly
          > > believed that this path
          > > must be true.
          > >
          > > It was meditation on
          > > the third eye that brought
          > > the rushing wind, not
          > > Klemp.
          > >
          > > Eckankar was taken from
          > > the Sihk word Ek Ong Kar.
          > > Ek Ong Kar means one
          > > divine energy permeates
          > > all things.
          > >
          > >
          > > Russ wrote:
          > > > I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is ex eckist, interviewing
          > > David Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.
          > >
          > > > One of the interviewees, a man made a statement, paraphrasing here, that in
          > > his mind it doesn't matter where the writings of eckankar come from because he
          > > is finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it's more important to have
          > a
          > > connection with the sound current.
          > > >
          > > > I used to have that exact point of view. What changed for me?
          > > >
          > > > One thing I used to feel good about when talking about eck was this idea
          > that
          > > it has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was synonymous with the
          > sound
          > > current.
          > > >
          > > > It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored for a decade, after
          > > becoming a 5th. I could no longer ignore this dissonance, caused by the
          > > plaigarism and ultimately this had led to me dropping out of eckankar.
          > > >
          > > > I have a question concerning the sound current. I experience this sound,
          > > sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous to my study of eck.
          > Maybe
          > > it isn't important, where you read about it, if you take it as a principle and
          > > work with it.
          > > >
          > > > Do you folks think the sound current is bogus? Delusions?
          > > >
          > > > This is an interesting point because I am interested in truth...
          > > >
          > > > BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion, good work. But this by
          > > itself doesn't go to the underlying issues concerning the question, "What is
          > the
          > > Truth regarding the idea of the sound current as a way of connection with the
          > > Divine??"
          > > >
          > > > Thanks,
          > > >
          > > > Russ
          >

        • harrisonferrel
          I agree. But I also think that most New Age thinking is absurd because it is baseless and without evidence. The soul concept cannot be proven, let alone the
          Message 4 of 22 , Dec 10, 2012
          • 0 Attachment
            I agree. But I also think that most New Age thinking is absurd because it is baseless and without evidence. The soul concept cannot be proven, let alone the soulmate idea.



            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer <jepfeiffer@...> wrote:
            >
            > I can't view the concept of a soulmate being two parts of a whole no matter where it comes from.  I don't believe any of us are half of a whole.  Maybe Paul needed that concept as a reason for why he fell for Gail. 
            >
            > --- On Sat, 12/8/12, etznab18 <etznab@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > From: etznab18 <etznab@...>
            > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the Sound Current?
            > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
            > Date: Saturday, December 8, 2012, 5:11 AM
            >
            >
            >
            >  
            >
            >
            >
            > I don't believe Paul Twitchell reinvented the Soul Mates thing. It looks to me more like he plagiarized, or paraphrased about it (adding his own spin as well, under the guise of Eck Masters, etc.). But hey, Eckankar is not a cult and it's against spiritual law to push one's beliefs on another :) If you don't believe me just read the FAQ section on Eckankar's web site. Look for the question: Is Eckankar a cult?
            >
            > ***
            >
            > There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book, Dialogues With The Master (1970), called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.
            >
            > Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness (first published in 1913?) - and compare the text with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to Paul Twitchell in Dialogues With The Master.
            >
            > http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up
            >
            > http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNomad.pdf
            >
            > ***
            >
            > Remember that controversial subject of Soul Mates which appeared in Paul Twitche;ll's earlier books (I thought it was TTF, but here is something in DWTM)?
            >
            > Ali Nomad:
            >
            > Each and every SOUL, therefore, has its spiritual counterpart--its "other half," with which it unites on the spiritual plane, when the time comes for attainment of immortality.
            >
            > Lord Sohang:
            >
            > "Each and every Soul, therefore, in the lower worlds has its spiritual counterpart - its other half with which it unites on the spiritual plane, when the time comes for the attainment of the highest goal of the world of Brahm and that counterpart is the ECK Spirit." (DWTM p. 176)
            >
            > https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!searchin/alt.religion.eckankar/soul$20mates|sort:date/alt.religion.eckankar/9_e16rhw3gA/3VmvQQ811QsJ
            >
            > Now of course it depends on who Paul Twitchell is plagiarizing, as the information can vary. It can even appear contradictory. Example:
            >
            > [...] But unless the union has already been made in heaven through pure love, the physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness, for like all true sacraments it must be entered into and registered upon all planes. (p. 220)
            > The Law of Divine Love will bring to each Soul its true marriage, a union in perfect purity on all planes. This according to the one life-theory is of course impossible for all; but since reincarnation is a fact, the Soul, through repeated experiences, learns to follow its Divine Guidance, hence will ultimately find its true mate. But they can be spiritually as well as physically married to their mates only when the old accounts of both have been balanced and the old complications set up through the mistakes of the past have been worked out. [... .]. (p. 221)
            >
            > The Voice Of Isis And Realms Of The Living Dead, by Harriett Augusta Curtiss
            >
            > http://archive.org/stream/TheVoiceOfIsis2ndEdition/CurtissFhAndHaTheVoiceOfIsis2ndEdition_djvu.txt
            >
            > Rebazar Tarzs in DWTM:
            >
            > "Now for the part of union between man and woman. Unless this union has been made on the higher planes through pure thought, the physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness, for like all true sacraments it must be entered into and registered upon all planes.
            > "The law of divine love will bring to each Soul Its true marriage and union in perfect purity on all planes. This true marriage is that of Soul with the ECK - the polarization of each Soul - not two Souls or man and woman coming together. And, as it is, each Soul will be guided through repeated experience by divine guidance until It finds this true love, the love of ECK through the Mahanta. You can be spiritually as well as physically married to a mate only when the old accounts of both have been balanced, and old complications set up through mistakes of the past have been worked out. (p. 115)
            >
            > (My guess is that someone revised the original DWTM manuscript since the ECK (all caps) trademark didn't come about until 1968 and the Mahanta term didn't come into vogue until 1969; whereas the DWTM manuscript was reportedly written in 1956!)
            >
            > Now I remember (I think it was in The Tiger's Fang, Or was it The Eck-Vidya?) some Soul Mates controversy in Eckankar history where I believe Harold Klemp and Eckankar had to "correct" what Paul Twitchell earlier wrote. It was no longer about two people coming together, but a person finding (in so many words) their own "higher self".
            >
            > I haven't finished checking all the references to Soul Mates in all of Paul's books, so don't just go on what I quoted from DWTM.
            >
            > ***
            >
            > Btw, my Yahoo has been bouncing since Nov. 28 so I've been out of the loop since then and hadn't received any posts via email. Just now are catching up.
            >
            > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Hello Non eckchains and All,
            > > The Soulmate theory
            > > phenomena is an interesting
            > > spiritual perspective
            > > and is, actually, unlimited
            > > by conventional New Age
            > > thought. Eckankar (PT)
            > > reinvented it with a
            > > Twin-Soul perspective.
            > > This is interesting, but
            > > IMO it shouldn't be limited
            > > to or by PT's "Twin" Soul
            > > view and a single pairing
            > > only.
            > >
            > > Thus, the connection that
            > > some/many Souls have with
            > > one another (IMO) s/b referred
            > > to in the plural. Thus, Soulmates
            > > is more than one pairing.
            > > Unfortunately, for Eckists,
            > > Klemp has them locked into
            > > a "Twin" concept when there
            > > are Triplets and many more!
            > > This phenomena can be
            > > a special connection/attraction
            > > with lifelong friends, as well,
            > > and not always be with sexual
            > > partners.
            > >
            > > As far as Klemp's fraud
            > > and his "frownish and fakish"
            > > H.I.'s, well, that's to be
            > > expected when they emulate
            > > HK's own behaviour via clues
            > > with the way the EK hierarchy
            > > is run or the way in which
            > > he speaks/refers to Joan and/
            > > or tells his stories.
            > >
            > > With Klemp there's a lack
            > > of forgiveness, compassion,
            > > and empathy. These are
            > > missing from Klemp's own
            > > perspectives in his own life
            > > stories.
            > >
            > > It's easy for him to judge
            > > others and point out flaws
            > > or to add "insight" and to
            > > do EK tweaks on the letters
            > > sent to him. And, that's
            > > what Klemp does when
            > > he "writes" in his hermit
            > > batty cave.
            > >
            > > Thus, many of HK's RESAs
            > > emulate his lack of empathy,
            > > compassion, and forgiveness.
            > > They talk a lot about "love"
            > > but when it comes to the
            > > business/spiritual side of
            > > Eckankar and the "Guidelines,"
            > > as set forth by HK via the
            > > ESC, there is not much room
            > > leftover for the byproducts
            > > of love.
            > >
            > > Look at the way the Higher
            > > initiations are handed out.
            > > There are always strings
            > > attached and it has more
            > > to do with "Outer" posturing
            > > and faking it with physical
            > > requirements. What is said
            > > or isn't said to the RESA
            > > or done as a volunteer,
            > > than with anything else
            > > or with one's visible goodness,
            > > has more importance in
            > > deciding who gets a pink
            > > slip. It's not love for God.
            > > Long-time Eckists who
            > > are loyal and loving and
            > > are very nice people are
            > > excluded from becoming
            > > H.I.s because they haven't
            > > jumped through enough
            > > physical hoops of training,
            > > retraining, volunteering, etc.
            > >
            > > Or, maybe they didn't seem
            > > like a 'take charge" leader
            > > or have a college education
            > > and/or were high profile
            > > professionals. It's amazing
            > > how petty RESAs can be,
            > > and these people are the
            > > "righthand" of Klemp.
            > >
            > > In truth, many people who
            > > left Eckankar did so out of
            > > frustration caused via neglect
            > > and unloving behavior towards
            > > them. Once you've become
            > > a member their main goal
            > > has been achieved. From
            > > there they dangle the carrot
            > > for the higher initiations
            > > and, now, make it very
            > > difficult to achieve the 7th.
            > > Eckists need to become
            > > ESAs to become RESAs
            > > and unless you're already
            > > an ESA it's, now, much
            > > more difficult to achieve.
            > > And, for a 6th ESA to get
            > > the 7th they, usually, need
            > > to become a RESA.
            > >
            > > Thus, Klemp slowed-down
            > > Initiations in 1985 due to
            > > Darwin making 500 new
            > > 5ths before leaving office.
            > > So, more that 25 years later
            > > what is Klemp's excuse for
            > > not making more H.I.s and
            > > for not expanding the "outer"
            > > initiations and their numbers?
            > >
            > > It's actually a simple/obvious
            > > explanation. Klemp is selfish.
            > >
            > > Klemp's lack of empathy,
            > > compassion, forgiveness and
            > > real, true love for his fellow
            > > eckists, and the trickle-down
            > > effect within the EK Hierarchy,
            > > is why Eckankar and ECKists
            > > are broken and lost. Their
            > > delusional faith and fellowship
            > > (it's a numbers game) is
            > > what they cling to as do
            > > all religionists. Yet, as with
            > > all religionists, their faith
            > > has the only chosen ones
            > > who have been gifted with
            > > special insight into God
            > > (or whatever name they use).
            > > EK is simply more of the same
            > > but tweaked to fit a special
            > > New Age/Metaphysical mindset.
            > > It's the Easy Way until those,
            > > now, with less than 30 plus
            > > years want a 6th or 7th
            > > initiation.
            > >
            > > Prometheus
            > >
            > >
            > > "Non" eckchains wrote:
            > > I agree with a lot of what you have said here. I don't quite get the Soulmate
            > > though. I have been met with mostly great difficulty in actualizing this, even
            > > though it sounds quite nice. I am open to experiencing this, yet I am also
            > > naturally intuitive and also he who questions a lot and enjoys experimenting and
            > > investigating. Most people I meet are into holding tight to their beliefs and
            > > don't like being around someone like me, if I am just being myself. For some
            > > reason I ruffle feathers so maybe that means I need to stay away from certain
            > > Birds. :) I don't know the answer.
            > >
            > > As far as the sound current. My experience has been dreams of beautiful music
            > > sometimes, but also just feeling. Not everyone is musical. The sound current and
            > > light may actually be too limiting. It is based on our two most used human
            > > senses, seeing and hearing. There is so much more richness involved. We are
            > > lacking in our sense of smell and there are other senses that other animals know
            > > and experience that make us look like idiots sometimes. Humans are very arrogant
            > > because of our superior ability to manipulate our environment, something that if
            > > unchecked can and does cause great havoc, destruction and killing just to kill.
            > >
            > > Feeling and intuition is very under rated. Feelings allow us to have compassion
            > > and empathy. That is a vibration I wish there was more of. People don't like it,
            > > because it also means that we may have to relate to the pain of another, or to
            > > our own pain. People are too hardened IMHO. At the same time, bless the ones who
            > > act out of compassion to advocate and fight those who are indifferent to at
            > > least living with some level of a little empathy. I think they have compassion
            > > in them, it is just repressed, and imo is always pushing to express. I dare say,
            > > that even klemp and his HI's are so frownish and fakish, because that is how you
            > > repress feelings and natural compassion. It is harder for humans, because we are
            > > more self-aware. Native American life often at least had sacred rituals for
            > > killing to eat. We are lost..... Light and sound meditations may just be a
            > > distraction and limiting us from our Whole Being. We cannot cut off a part of
            > > ourselves and Be our Whole Being, imo.
            > >
            > > Non ; )
            > >
            > >
            > > <prometheus wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Hello Tyson, Russ, and All,
            > > > I believe that religious myth
            > > > was created to explain away
            > > > the phenomenal, and that
            > > > religion was created in order
            > > > to control the masses and,
            > > > thus, use this undertaking
            > > > for money, power, greed,
            > > > status and other self-benefits
            > > > for the hierarchies.
            > > >
            > > > The Blue Light/Blue Star?
            > > > The human mind/brain
            > > > functions similarly and
            > > > when attention is placed
            > > > upon subjects this produces
            > > > chemical and electrical
            > > > reactions. There are even
            > > > mixed but similar responses
            > > > to unconscious stimuli.
            > > > But many people realize
            > > > all of this but tend to
            > > > forget it when seeking
            > > > "spiritual" answers.
            > > >
            > > > People should not have
            > > > faith in the words of
            > > > others. People should
            > > > No Longer give others
            > > > 'the benefit of the doubt.'
            > > >
            > > > Yes, we can look at what
            > > > principles they are sharing
            > > > in order to help us to
            > > > achieve a greater realization
            > > > but we should not limit
            > > > ourselves from going
            > > > beyond the realizations
            > > > and achievements in
            > > > higher consciousness
            > > > of those we view as
            > > > ideals/icons.
            > > >
            > > > Thus, the concept of
            > > > "Master" needs to be
            > > > revised and eliminated.
            > > >
            > > > When the lessons have
            > > > been taught, via real
            > > > world examples of
            > > > living, it then becomes
            > > > our responsibility
            > > > to demonstrate what
            > > > we have learned as
            > > > it pertains to our
            > > > own unique individual
            > > > personality and
            > > > circumstances. We
            > > > move-on and into
            > > > our own unrestricted
            > > > conscious awareness.
            > > >
            > > > IMHO- Jesus, and not
            > > > always his apostles,
            > > > taught some really
            > > > advanced concepts.
            > > > Too advanced for
            > > > most of us today!
            > > >
            > > > I'll never forget this
            > > > one Fung Fu episode
            > > > where Cain ran into
            > > > some religious fanatics
            > > > who would not defend
            > > > themselves and would
            > > > turn the other cheek.
            > > > Cain showed them that
            > > > there was a third response.
            > > > Instead of becoming
            > > > a victim of violence,
            > > > or responding with
            > > > violence Cain stopped/
            > > > blocked the violence
            > > > i.e. punch or object
            > > > and redirected its
            > > > intended path.
            > > >
            > > > Anyway, I've heard
            > > > sounds when first
            > > > starting to mediate
            > > > via TM. Everyone
            > > > heard these tones.
            > > > Generally the mind
            > > > blocks out these
            > > > background noises
            > > > until it quiets down
            > > > and empties itself.
            > > > Actually, one can
            > > > follow these sounds
            > > > without placing
            > > > too much attention
            > > > on them. That's the
            > > > trick. One doesn't
            > > > place attention or
            > > > attachment on any
            > > > thought, imaginary
            > > > vision or sound no
            > > > matter how pleasant.
            > > >
            > > > Eventually, this will
            > > > produce other by-
            > > > products of awareness
            > > > such as contentment.
            > > >
            > > > I have to say that one
            > > > must discover their
            > > > own reality. Don't take
            > > > my word for anything.
            > > > Divine Awareness is
            > > > an individual experience
            > > > and not a group path.
            > > > I called it "Divine Awareness"
            > > > in oder to give this
            > > > private and personal
            > > > Discovery by Soul a
            > > > special designation.
            > > > By referring to the
            > > > uniqueness of the
            > > > individual experience
            > > > as 'Soul' does likewise.
            > > >
            > > > I will have to say that
            > > > I've had help in validating
            > > > that there is a Reality
            > > > beyond the scientific
            > > > explanations and that
            > > > of religious dogma.
            > > >
            > > > I can only say that
            > > > the Soulmate concept
            > > > (IMO) is real in that
            > > > it helps these Souls
            > > > to form a special
            > > > bond in order to merge
            > > > and harmonize their
            > > > vibrations and to better
            > > > 'tune-in' to glimpses
            > > > of, perhaps, our true
            > > > origins and potential
            > > > but also of this Here
            > > > and Now.
            > > >
            > > > Prometheus
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > "Tyson" wrote:
            > > > The sound current, bani,
            > > > shabd or nam is real.
            > > >
            > > > There is no religion that
            > > > can claim it as there own.
            > > >
            > > > What is fiction is the
            > > > dependance on a master
            > > > that is created by religions
            > > > of the light and sound.
            > > >
            > > > Only one initiation is
            > > > important.
            > > >
            > > > Yet faith in a past master
            > > > such as Christ, Krishna
            > > > or Guru Nanak is just as
            > > > valid.
            > > >
            > > > There is no mahanta.
            > > >
            > > > The blue star is no
            > > > other than a manifestation
            > > > created by a meeting
            > > > between the holy spirit
            > > > and ones higher self
            > > > (soul).
            > > >
            > > > For Harold to claim to
            > > > be the blue star is a
            > > > way to snare the gullible.
            > > > He is no more the blue
            > > > star than the second
            > > > coming of christ.
            > > >
            > > > I had heard the rushing
            > > > wind as a member of
            > > > eckankar so I wrongly
            > > > believed that this path
            > > > must be true.
            > > >
            > > > It was meditation on
            > > > the third eye that brought
            > > > the rushing wind, not
            > > > Klemp.
            > > >
            > > > Eckankar was taken from
            > > > the Sihk word Ek Ong Kar.
            > > > Ek Ong Kar means one
            > > > divine energy permeates
            > > > all things.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Russ wrote:
            > > > > I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is ex eckist, interviewing
            > > > David Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.
            > > >
            > > > > One of the interviewees, a man made a statement, paraphrasing here, that in
            > > > his mind it doesn't matter where the writings of eckankar come from because he
            > > > is finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it's more important to have
            > > a
            > > > connection with the sound current.
            > > > >
            > > > > I used to have that exact point of view. What changed for me?
            > > > >
            > > > > One thing I used to feel good about when talking about eck was this idea
            > > that
            > > > it has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was synonymous with the
            > > sound
            > > > current.
            > > > >
            > > > > It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored for a decade, after
            > > > becoming a 5th. I could no longer ignore this dissonance, caused by the
            > > > plaigarism and ultimately this had led to me dropping out of eckankar.
            > > > >
            > > > > I have a question concerning the sound current. I experience this sound,
            > > > sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous to my study of eck.
            > > Maybe
            > > > it isn't important, where you read about it, if you take it as a principle and
            > > > work with it.
            > > > >
            > > > > Do you folks think the sound current is bogus? Delusions?
            > > > >
            > > > > This is an interesting point because I am interested in truth...
            > > > >
            > > > > BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion, good work. But this by
            > > > itself doesn't go to the underlying issues concerning the question, "What is
            > > the
            > > > Truth regarding the idea of the sound current as a way of connection with the
            > > > Divine??"
            > > > >
            > > > > Thanks,
            > > > >
            > > > > Russ
            > >
            >
          • etznab@aol.com
            I find it suspect whenever the female is downgraded in comparison with the male. In The Tiger s Fang (according to Lord Alakh Lok?): There is more to this law
            Message 5 of 22 , Dec 10, 2012
            • 0 Attachment
              I find it suspect whenever the female is downgraded in comparison with
              the male. In The Tiger's Fang (according to Lord Alakh Lok?):

              "There is more to this law than just the issues which have been given
              here. No Soul can enter into the worlds above the plane of Sat Lok
              without being complete within itself - without having both completed
              the cycle of balance and entering into the oneness with its other self,
              and both gaining the traits of the other .... and in the end, as it is
              said, becoming the male or original Soul as God first put on earth.
              This Soul had the qualities which God wanted, but could not be
              manifested unless Soul was split into two particular particles, the
              negative and the positive, for both to develop." (pp. 85-86)

              My comments:

              As it is said? Lord Alakh Lok says "as it is said"?

              I wonder, Did Paul Twitchell come up with this stuff from Radhasoami
              doctrine? Quoting:

              "The higher centres in a female form are less capable of being
              developed than in a male form. All the centres of Pind, Brahmand and
              Dayal Desh do exist in a woman as they do in man. But the centres
              higher than Sunn or Daswan Dwar cannot ordinarily be awakened in a
              woman. Hence, the highest point to which the spirit or Surat in a
              female can rise, is the Daswan Dwar. For higher ascension, the same
              Surat or spirit will have to take birth as a man, and perform the
              spiritual exercises for awakening higher centres. [... .]"

              http://www.rsfaith.org/images/stories/RSFBooks/English/Holy_Epistols_Part_5/holy_epistols_part_5_1.html

              Both versions on the subject are highly suspect, IMO. I think people
              probably butchered an older form of a story that subsequently took on
              Frankenstein form.

              I think there are two more sections about Soul Mates that I came across
              recently, both from Dialogues With The Master, at least one version of
              which appears to be from appropriated text.



              -----Original Message-----
              From: harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...>
              To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
              <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Mon, Dec 10, 2012 4:26 pm
              Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the
              Sound Current?

               
              I agree. But I also think that most New Age thinking is absurd because
              it is baseless and without evidence. The soul concept cannot be proven,
              let alone the soulmate idea.

              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer
              <jepfeiffer@...> wrote:
              >
              > I can't view the concept of a soulmate being two parts of a whole
              no matter where it comes from.  I don't believe any of us are half of
              a whole.  Maybe Paul needed that concept as a reason for why he fell
              for Gail. 
              >
              > --- On Sat, 12/8/12, etznab18 <etznab@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > From: etznab18 <etznab@...>
              > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the
              Sound Current?
              > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
              > Date: Saturday, December 8, 2012, 5:11 AM
              >
              >
              >
              >  
              >
              >
              >
              > I don't believe Paul Twitchell reinvented the Soul Mates thing. It
              looks to me more like he plagiarized, or paraphrased about it (adding
              his own spin as well, under the guise of Eck Masters, etc.). But hey,
              Eckankar is not a cult and it's against spiritual law to push one's
              beliefs on another :) If you don't believe me just read the FAQ section
              on Eckankar's web site. Look for the question: Is Eckankar a cult?
              >
              > ***
              >
              > There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book, Dialogues With The
              Master (1970), called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.
              >
              > Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness (first published in
              1913?) - and compare the text with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to
              Paul Twitchell in Dialogues With The Master.
              >
              >
              http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up
              >
              >
              http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNomad.pdf
              >
              > ***
              >
              > Remember that controversial subject of Soul Mates which appeared
              in Paul Twitche;ll's earlier books (I thought it was TTF, but here is
              something in DWTM)?
              >
              > Ali Nomad:
              >
              > Each and every SOUL, therefore, has its spiritual counterpart--its
              "other half," with which it unites on the spiritual plane, when the
              time comes for attainment of immortality.
              >
              > Lord Sohang:
              >
              > "Each and every Soul, therefore, in the lower worlds has its
              spiritual counterpart - its other half with which it unites on the
              spiritual plane, when the time comes for the attainment of the highest
              goal of the world of Brahm and that counterpart is the ECK Spirit."
              (DWTM p. 176)
              >
              >
              https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!searchin/alt.religion.eckankar/soul$20mates|sort:date/alt.religion.eckankar/9_e16rhw3gA/3VmvQQ811QsJ
              >
              > Now of course it depends on who Paul Twitchell is plagiarizing, as
              the information can vary. It can even appear contradictory. Example:
              >
              > [...] But unless the union has already been made in heaven through
              pure love, the physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness,
              for like all true sacraments it must be entered into and registered
              upon all planes. (p. 220)
              > The Law of Divine Love will bring to each Soul its true marriage,
              a union in perfect purity on all planes. This according to the one
              life-theory is of course impossible for all; but since reincarnation is
              a fact, the Soul, through repeated experiences, learns to follow its
              Divine Guidance, hence will ultimately find its true mate. But they can
              be spiritually as well as physically married to their mates only when
              the old accounts of both have been balanced and the old complications
              set up through the mistakes of the past have been worked out. [... .].
              (p. 221)
              >
              > The Voice Of Isis And Realms Of The Living Dead, by Harriett
              Augusta Curtiss
              >
              >
              http://archive.org/stream/TheVoiceOfIsis2ndEdition/CurtissFhAndHaTheVoiceOfIsis2ndEdition_djvu.txt
              >
              > Rebazar Tarzs in DWTM:
              >
              > "Now for the part of union between man and woman. Unless this
              union has been made on the higher planes through pure thought, the
              physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness, for like all
              true sacraments it must be entered into and registered upon all planes.
              > "The law of divine love will bring to each Soul Its true marriage
              and union in perfect purity on all planes. This true marriage is that
              of Soul with the ECK - the polarization of each Soul - not two Souls or
              man and woman coming together. And, as it is, each Soul will be guided
              through repeated experience by divine guidance until It finds this true
              love, the love of ECK through the Mahanta. You can be spiritually as
              well as physically married to a mate only when the old accounts of both
              have been balanced, and old complications set up through mistakes of
              the past have been worked out. (p. 115)
              >
              > (My guess is that someone revised the original DWTM manuscript
              since the ECK (all caps) trademark didn't come about until 1968 and the
              Mahanta term didn't come into vogue until 1969; whereas the DWTM
              manuscript was reportedly written in 1956!)
              >
              > Now I remember (I think it was in The Tiger's Fang, Or was it The
              Eck-Vidya?) some Soul Mates controversy in Eckankar history where I
              believe Harold Klemp and Eckankar had to "correct" what Paul Twitchell
              earlier wrote. It was no longer about two people coming together, but a
              person finding (in so many words) their own "higher self".
              >
              > I haven't finished checking all the references to Soul Mates in
              all of Paul's books, so don't just go on what I quoted from DWTM.
              >
              > ***
              >
              > Btw, my Yahoo has been bouncing since Nov. 28 so I've been out of
              the loop since then and hadn't received any posts via email. Just now
              are catching up.
              >
              > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
              "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Hello Non eckchains and All,
              > > The Soulmate theory
              > > phenomena is an interesting
              > > spiritual perspective
              > > and is, actually, unlimited
              > > by conventional New Age
              > > thought. Eckankar (PT)
              > > reinvented it with a
              > > Twin-Soul perspective.
              > > This is interesting, but
              > > IMO it shouldn't be limited
              > > to or by PT's "Twin" Soul
              > > view and a single pairing
              > > only.
              > >
              > > Thus, the connection that
              > > some/many Souls have with
              > > one another (IMO) s/b referred
              > > to in the plural. Thus, Soulmates
              > > is more than one pairing.
              > > Unfortunately, for Eckists,
              > > Klemp has them locked into
              > > a "Twin" concept when there
              > > are Triplets and many more!
              > > This phenomena can be
              > > a special connection/attraction
              > > with lifelong friends, as well,
              > > and not always be with sexual
              > > partners.
              > >
              > > As far as Klemp's fraud
              > > and his "frownish and fakish"
              > > H.I.'s, well, that's to be
              > > expected when they emulate
              > > HK's own behaviour via clues
              > > with the way the EK hierarchy
              > > is run or the way in which
              > > he speaks/refers to Joan and/
              > > or tells his stories.
              > >
              > > With Klemp there's a lack
              > > of forgiveness, compassion,
              > > and empathy. These are
              > > missing from Klemp's own
              > > perspectives in his own life
              > > stories.
              > >
              > > It's easy for him to judge
              > > others and point out flaws
              > > or to add "insight" and to
              > > do EK tweaks on the letters
              > > sent to him. And, that's
              > > what Klemp does when
              > > he "writes" in his hermit
              > > batty cave.
              > >
              > > Thus, many of HK's RESAs
              > > emulate his lack of empathy,
              > > compassion, and forgiveness.
              > > They talk a lot about "love"
              > > but when it comes to the
              > > business/spiritual side of
              > > Eckankar and the "Guidelines,"
              > > as set forth by HK via the
              > > ESC, there is not much room
              > > leftover for the byproducts
              > > of love.
              > >
              > > Look at the way the Higher
              > > initiations are handed out.
              > > There are always strings
              > > attached and it has more
              > > to do with "Outer" posturing
              > > and faking it with physical
              > > requirements. What is said
              > > or isn't said to the RESA
              > > or done as a volunteer,
              > > than with anything else
              > > or with one's visible goodness,
              > > has more importance in
              > > deciding who gets a pink
              > > slip. It's not love for God.
              > > Long-time Eckists who
              > > are loyal and loving and
              > > are very nice people are
              > > excluded from becoming
              > > H.I.s because they haven't
              > > jumped through enough
              > > physical hoops of training,
              > > retraining, volunteering, etc.
              > >
              > > Or, maybe they didn't seem
              > > like a 'take charge" leader
              > > or have a college education
              > > and/or were high profile
              > > professionals. It's amazing
              > > how petty RESAs can be,
              > > and these people are the
              > > "righthand" of Klemp.
              > >
              > > In truth, many people who
              > > left Eckankar did so out of
              > > frustration caused via neglect
              > > and unloving behavior towards
              > > them. Once you've become
              > > a member their main goal
              > > has been achieved. From
              > > there they dangle the carrot
              > > for the higher initiations
              > > and, now, make it very
              > > difficult to achieve the 7th.
              > > Eckists need to become
              > > ESAs to become RESAs
              > > and unless you're already
              > > an ESA it's, now, much
              > > more difficult to achieve.
              > > And, for a 6th ESA to get
              > > the 7th they, usually, need
              > > to become a RESA.
              > >
              > > Thus, Klemp slowed-down
              > > Initiations in 1985 due to
              > > Darwin making 500 new
              > > 5ths before leaving office.
              > > So, more that 25 years later
              > > what is Klemp's excuse for
              > > not making more H.I.s and
              > > for not expanding the "outer"
              > > initiations and their numbers?
              > >
              > > It's actually a simple/obvious
              > > explanation. Klemp is selfish.
              > >
              > > Klemp's lack of empathy,
              > > compassion, forgiveness and
              > > real, true love for his fellow
              > > eckists, and the trickle-down
              > > effect within the EK Hierarchy,
              > > is why Eckankar and ECKists
              > > are broken and lost. Their
              > > delusional faith and fellowship
              > > (it's a numbers game) is
              > > what they cling to as do
              > > all religionists. Yet, as with
              > > all religionists, their faith
              > > has the only chosen ones
              > > who have been gifted with
              > > special insight into God
              > > (or whatever name they use).
              > > EK is simply more of the same
              > > but tweaked to fit a special
              > > New Age/Metaphysical mindset.
              > > It's the Easy Way until those,
              > > now, with less than 30 plus
              > > years want a 6th or 7th
              > > initiation.
              > >
              > > Prometheus
              > >
              > >
              > > "Non" eckchains wrote:
              > > I agree with a lot of what you have said here. I don't quite
              get the Soulmate
              > > though. I have been met with mostly great difficulty in
              actualizing this, even
              > > though it sounds quite nice. I am open to experiencing this,
              yet I am also
              > > naturally intuitive and also he who questions a lot and
              enjoys experimenting and
              > > investigating. Most people I meet are into holding tight to
              their beliefs and
              > > don't like being around someone like me, if I am just being
              myself. For some
              > > reason I ruffle feathers so maybe that means I need to stay
              away from certain
              > > Birds. :) I don't know the answer.
              > >
              > > As far as the sound current. My experience has been dreams of
              beautiful music
              > > sometimes, but also just feeling. Not everyone is musical.
              The sound current and
              > > light may actually be too limiting. It is based on our two
              most used human
              > > senses, seeing and hearing. There is so much more richness
              involved. We are
              > > lacking in our sense of smell and there are other senses that
              other animals know
              > > and experience that make us look like idiots sometimes.
              Humans are very arrogant
              > > because of our superior ability to manipulate our
              environment, something that if
              > > unchecked can and does cause great havoc, destruction and
              killing just to kill.
              > >
              > > Feeling and intuition is very under rated. Feelings allow us
              to have compassion
              > > and empathy. That is a vibration I wish there was more of.
              People don't like it,
              > > because it also means that we may have to relate to the pain
              of another, or to
              > > our own pain. People are too hardened IMHO. At the same time,
              bless the ones who
              > > act out of compassion to advocate and fight those who are
              indifferent to at
              > > least living with some level of a little empathy. I think
              they have compassion
              > > in them, it is just repressed, and imo is always pushing to
              express. I dare say,
              > > that even klemp and his HI's are so frownish and fakish,
              because that is how you
              > > repress feelings and natural compassion. It is harder for
              humans, because we are
              > > more self-aware. Native American life often at least had
              sacred rituals for
              > > killing to eat. We are lost..... Light and sound meditations
              may just be a
              > > distraction and limiting us from our Whole Being. We cannot
              cut off a part of
              > > ourselves and Be our Whole Being, imo.
              > >
              > > Non ; )
              > >
              > >
              > > <prometheus wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Hello Tyson, Russ, and All,
              > > > I believe that religious myth
              > > > was created to explain away
              > > > the phenomenal, and that
              > > > religion was created in order
              > > > to control the masses and,
              > > > thus, use this undertaking
              > > > for money, power, greed,
              > > > status and other self-benefits
              > > > for the hierarchies.
              > > >
              > > > The Blue Light/Blue Star?
              > > > The human mind/brain
              > > > functions similarly and
              > > > when attention is placed
              > > > upon subjects this produces
              > > > chemical and electrical
              > > > reactions. There are even
              > > > mixed but similar responses
              > > > to unconscious stimuli.
              > > > But many people realize
              > > > all of this but tend to
              > > > forget it when seeking
              > > > "spiritual" answers.
              > > >
              > > > People should not have
              > > > faith in the words of
              > > > others. People should
              > > > No Longer give others
              > > > 'the benefit of the doubt.'
              > > >
              > > > Yes, we can look at what
              > > > principles they are sharing
              > > > in order to help us to
              > > > achieve a greater realization
              > > > but we should not limit
              > > > ourselves from going
              > > > beyond the realizations
              > > > and achievements in
              > > > higher consciousness
              > > > of those we view as
              > > > ideals/icons.
              > > >
              > > > Thus, the concept of
              > > > "Master" needs to be
              > > > revised and eliminated.
              > > >
              > > > When the lessons have
              > > > been taught, via real
              > > > world examples of
              > > > living, it then becomes
              > > > our responsibility
              > > > to demonstrate what
              > > > we have learned as
              > > > it pertains to our
              > > > own unique individual
              > > > personality and
              > > > circumstances. We
              > > > move-on and into
              > > > our own unrestricted
              > > > conscious awareness.
              > > >
              > > > IMHO- Jesus, and not
              > > > always his apostles,
              > > > taught some really
              > > > advanced concepts.
              > > > Too advanced for
              > > > most of us today!
              > > >
              > > > I'll never forget this
              > > > one Fung Fu episode
              > > > where Cain ran into
              > > > some religious fanatics
              > > > who would not defend
              > > > themselves and would
              > > > turn the other cheek.
              > > > Cain showed them that
              > > > there was a third response.
              > > > Instead of becoming
              > > > a victim of violence,
              > > > or responding with
              > > > violence Cain stopped/
              > > > blocked the violence
              > > > i.e. punch or object
              > > > and redirected its
              > > > intended path.
              > > >
              > > > Anyway, I've heard
              > > > sounds when first
              > > > starting to mediate
              > > > via TM. Everyone
              > > > heard these tones.
              > > > Generally the mind
              > > > blocks out these
              > > > background noises
              > > > until it quiets down
              > > > and empties itself.
              > > > Actually, one can
              > > > follow these sounds
              > > > without placing
              > > > too much attention
              > > > on them. That's the
              > > > trick. One doesn't
              > > > place attention or
              > > > attachment on any
              > > > thought, imaginary
              > > > vision or sound no
              > > > matter how pleasant.
              > > >
              > > > Eventually, this will
              > > > produce other by-
              > > > products of awareness
              > > > such as contentment.
              > > >
              > > > I have to say that one
              > > > must discover their
              > > > own reality. Don't take
              > > > my word for anything.
              > > > Divine Awareness is
              > > > an individual experience
              > > > and not a group path.
              > > > I called it "Divine Awareness"
              > > > in oder to give this
              > > > private and personal
              > > > Discovery by Soul a
              > > > special designation.
              > > > By referring to the
              > > > uniqueness of the
              > > > individual experience
              > > > as 'Soul' does likewise.
              > > >
              > > > I will have to say that
              > > > I've had help in validating
              > > > that there is a Reality
              > > > beyond the scientific
              > > > explanations and that
              > > > of religious dogma.
              > > >
              > > > I can only say that
              > > > the Soulmate concept
              > > > (IMO) is real in that
              > > > it helps these Souls
              > > > to form a special
              > > > bond in order to merge
              > > > and harmonize their
              > > > vibrations and to better
              > > > 'tune-in' to glimpses
              > > > of, perhaps, our true
              > > > origins and potential
              > > > but also of this Here
              > > > and Now.
              > > >
              > > > Prometheus
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > "Tyson" wrote:
              > > > The sound current, bani,
              > > > shabd or nam is real.
              > > >
              > > > There is no religion that
              > > > can claim it as there own.
              > > >
              > > > What is fiction is the
              > > > dependance on a master
              > > > that is created by religions
              > > > of the light and sound.
              > > >
              > > > Only one initiation is
              > > > important.
              > > >
              > > > Yet faith in a past master
              > > > such as Christ, Krishna
              > > > or Guru Nanak is just as
              > > > valid.
              > > >
              > > > There is no mahanta.
              > > >
              > > > The blue star is no
              > > > other than a manifestation
              > > > created by a meeting
              > > > between the holy spirit
              > > > and ones higher self
              > > > (soul).
              > > >
              > > > For Harold to claim to
              > > > be the blue star is a
              > > > way to snare the gullible.
              > > > He is no more the blue
              > > > star than the second
              > > > coming of christ.
              > > >
              > > > I had heard the rushing
              > > > wind as a member of
              > > > eckankar so I wrongly
              > > > believed that this path
              > > > must be true.
              > > >
              > > > It was meditation on
              > > > the third eye that brought
              > > > the rushing wind, not
              > > > Klemp.
              > > >
              > > > Eckankar was taken from
              > > > the Sihk word Ek Ong Kar.
              > > > Ek Ong Kar means one
              > > > divine energy permeates
              > > > all things.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Russ wrote:
              > > > > I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is
              ex eckist, interviewing
              > > > David Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.
              > > >
              > > > > One of the interviewees, a man made a statement,
              paraphrasing here, that in
              > > > his mind it doesn't matter where the writings of
              eckankar come from because he
              > > > is finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it's
              more important to have
              > > a
              > > > connection with the sound current.
              > > > >
              > > > > I used to have that exact point of view. What
              changed for me?
              > > > >
              > > > > One thing I used to feel good about when talking
              about eck was this idea
              > > that
              > > > it has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was
              synonymous with the
              > > sound
              > > > current.
              > > > >
              > > > > It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored
              for a decade, after
              > > > becoming a 5th. I could no longer ignore this
              dissonance, caused by the
              > > > plaigarism and ultimately this had led to me dropping
              out of eckankar.
              > > > >
              > > > > I have a question concerning the sound current. I
              experience this sound,
              > > > sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous to
              my study of eck.
              > > Maybe
              > > > it isn't important, where you read about it, if you take
              it as a principle and
              > > > work with it.
              > > > >
              > > > > Do you folks think the sound current is bogus?
              Delusions?
              > > > >
              > > > > This is an interesting point because I am
              interested in truth...
              > > > >
              > > > > BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion,
              good work. But this by
              > > > itself doesn't go to the underlying issues concerning
              the question, "What is
              > > the
              > > > Truth regarding the idea of the sound current as a way
              of connection with the
              > > > Divine??"
              > > > >
              > > > > Thanks,
              > > > >
              > > > > Russ
              > >
              >
            • prometheus_973
              Hello Etznab and All, Yes, it makes me suspicious of any religious dogma that degrades women. Just how spiritual and advanced can it really be? It s Not!
              Message 6 of 22 , Dec 10, 2012
              • 0 Attachment
                Hello Etznab and All,
                Yes, it makes me suspicious
                of any religious dogma that
                degrades women. Just how
                "spiritual" and advanced
                can it really be? It's Not!

                But, since the Boy's Clubs
                of the World seem to run
                things it's no wonder this
                anti-female crap is written
                in all religious dogma.

                Sant Mat, which Twitchell
                "borrowed from" was no
                more advanced than all
                other "spiritual" sources
                that Twitchell used to
                "Compile" his male chauvinist
                dogma. Those male/female
                atoms and positive/negative
                batteries where the LEM
                has to be a male because
                women can't handle the
                Rod of Power is pure fiction.
                This is such a stupid ekplanation
                that you have to be brain-
                washed to believe it. BTW-
                I wonder what the "Rod"
                really symbolizes?

                Anyway, this is one more
                topic of PT's, and of Klemp's,
                that doesn't get closer
                scrutiny nor is it ever discussed
                using logic, common sense,
                or intellect. Actually, it's
                never discussed because
                there's no point right or
                wrong, the case is closed!
                Remember, HK has said,
                "Eckankar is a hierarchy
                and not a Democracy." But,
                isn't our government both
                a hierarchy and a democracy?

                Since Klemp claims to be
                imperfect and points out
                that Twitchell exaggerated
                shouldn't PT's Male requirement
                for the LEM position be revisited,
                investigated, and explained?

                Are there any EKists who
                are doctors, engineers or
                scientists? I'd like them to
                explain how the neg/pos
                male/female battery thing
                works with the physical body
                and why one needs to be
                a male in order to be the
                LEM in the Lower Planes,
                especially, here on earth!

                Prometheus

                etznab wrote:
                I find it suspect whenever the female is downgraded in comparison with
                the male. In The Tiger's Fang (according to Lord Alakh Lok?):

                "There is more to this law than just the issues which have been given
                here. No Soul can enter into the worlds above the plane of Sat Lok
                without being complete within itself - without having both completed
                the cycle of balance and entering into the oneness with its other self,
                and both gaining the traits of the other .... and in the end, as it is
                said, becoming the male or original Soul as God first put on earth.
                This Soul had the qualities which God wanted, but could not be
                manifested unless Soul was split into two particular particles, the
                negative and the positive, for both to develop." (pp. 85-86)

                My comments:

                As it is said? Lord Alakh Lok says "as it is said"?

                I wonder, Did Paul Twitchell come up with this stuff from Radhasoami
                doctrine? Quoting:

                "The higher centres in a female form are less capable of being
                developed than in a male form. All the centres of Pind, Brahmand and
                Dayal Desh do exist in a woman as they do in man. But the centres
                higher than Sunn or Daswan Dwar cannot ordinarily be awakened in a
                woman. Hence, the highest point to which the spirit or Surat in a
                female can rise, is the Daswan Dwar. For higher ascension, the same
                Surat or spirit will have to take birth as a man, and perform the
                spiritual exercises for awakening higher centres. [... .]"

                http://www.rsfaith.org/images/stories/RSFBooks/English/Holy_Epistols_Part_5/holy\
                _epistols_part_5_1.html

                Both versions on the subject are highly suspect, IMO. I think people
                probably butchered an older form of a story that subsequently took on
                Frankenstein form.

                I think there are two more sections about Soul Mates that I came across
                recently, both from Dialogues With The Master, at least one version of
                which appears to be from appropriated text.



                -----Original Message-----
                From: harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...>


                I agree. But I also think that most New Age thinking is absurd because
                it is baseless and without evidence. The soul concept cannot be proven,
                let alone the soulmate idea.

                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer
                <jepfeiffer@...> wrote:
                >
                > I can't view the concept of a soulmate being two parts of a whole
                no matter where it comes from. I don't believe any of us are half of
                a whole. Maybe Paul needed that concept as a reason for why he fell
                for Gail.ÂÂ
                >
                etznab wrote:

                >
                > I don't believe Paul Twitchell reinvented the Soul Mates thing. It
                looks to me more like he plagiarized, or paraphrased about it (adding
                his own spin as well, under the guise of Eck Masters, etc.). But hey,
                Eckankar is not a cult and it's against spiritual law to push one's
                beliefs on another :) If you don't believe me just read the FAQ section
                on Eckankar's web site. Look for the question: Is Eckankar a cult?
                >
                > ***
                >
                > There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book, Dialogues With The
                Master (1970), called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.
                >
                > Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness (first published in
                1913?) - and compare the text with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to
                Paul Twitchell in Dialogues With The Master.
                >
                >
                http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up
                >
                >
                http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNo\
                mad.pdf
                >
                > ***
                >
                > Remember that controversial subject of Soul Mates which appeared
                in Paul Twitche;ll's earlier books (I thought it was TTF, but here is
                something in DWTM)?
                >
                > Ali Nomad:
                >
                > Each and every SOUL, therefore, has its spiritual counterpart--its
                "other half," with which it unites on the spiritual plane, when the
                time comes for attainment of immortality.
                >
                > Lord Sohang:
                >
                > "Each and every Soul, therefore, in the lower worlds has its
                spiritual counterpart - its other half with which it unites on the
                spiritual plane, when the time comes for the attainment of the highest
                goal of the world of Brahm and that counterpart is the ECK Spirit."
                (DWTM p. 176)
                >
                >
                https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!searchin/alt.religion.eck\
                ankar/soul$20mates|sort:date/alt.religion.eckankar/9_e16rhw3gA/3VmvQQ811QsJ
                >
                > Now of course it depends on who Paul Twitchell is plagiarizing, as
                the information can vary. It can even appear contradictory. Example:
                >
                > [...] But unless the union has already been made in heaven through
                pure love, the physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness,
                for like all true sacraments it must be entered into and registered
                upon all planes. (p. 220)

                > The Law of Divine Love will bring to each Soul its true marriage,
                a union in perfect purity on all planes. This according to the one
                life-theory is of course impossible for all; but since reincarnation is
                a fact, the Soul, through repeated experiences, learns to follow its
                Divine Guidance, hence will ultimately find its true mate. But they can
                be spiritually as well as physically married to their mates only when
                the old accounts of both have been balanced and the old complications
                set up through the mistakes of the past have been worked out. [... .].
                (p. 221)
                >
                > The Voice Of Isis And Realms Of The Living Dead, by Harriett
                Augusta Curtiss
                >
                >
                http://archive.org/stream/TheVoiceOfIsis2ndEdition/CurtissFhAndHaTheVoiceOfIsis2\
                ndEdition_djvu.txt
                >
                > Rebazar Tarzs in DWTM:
                >
                > "Now for the part of union between man and woman. Unless this
                union has been made on the higher planes through pure thought, the
                physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness, for like all
                true sacraments it must be entered into and registered upon all planes.
                > "The law of divine love will bring to each Soul Its true marriage
                and union in perfect purity on all planes. This true marriage is that
                of Soul with the ECK - the polarization of each Soul - not two Souls or
                man and woman coming together. And, as it is, each Soul will be guided
                through repeated experience by divine guidance until It finds this true
                love, the love of ECK through the Mahanta. You can be spiritually as
                well as physically married to a mate only when the old accounts of both
                have been balanced, and old complications set up through mistakes of
                the past have been worked out. (p. 115)
                >
                > (My guess is that someone revised the original DWTM manuscript
                since the ECK (all caps) trademark didn't come about until 1968 and the
                Mahanta term didn't come into vogue until 1969; whereas the DWTM
                manuscript was reportedly written in 1956!)
                >
                > Now I remember (I think it was in The Tiger's Fang, Or was it The
                Eck-Vidya?) some Soul Mates controversy in Eckankar history where I
                believe Harold Klemp and Eckankar had to "correct" what Paul Twitchell
                earlier wrote. It was no longer about two people coming together, but a
                person finding (in so many words) their own "higher self".
                >
                > I haven't finished checking all the references to Soul Mates in
                all of Paul's books, so don't just go on what I quoted from DWTM.
                >
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