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Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the Sound Current?

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello Etznab, I was reading some of this book, which was written in 1913 or 15, and just about every page sounds a lot like Twitchell s various writings.
    Message 1 of 22 , Dec 8, 2012
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      Hello Etznab,
      I was reading some
      of this book, which
      was written in 1913
      or 15, and just about
      every page sounds
      a lot like Twitchell's
      various writings.

      Twitchell must have
      plagiarized the hell
      out of this in order
      to create his EK dogma
      and to make himself
      seem spiritually advanced,
      knowledgable, and
      wise. And, since PT
      was a narcissist he
      probably used this
      info to impress others,
      including Gail, when,
      in truth, he was a
      mere wannabe, liar,
      and plagiarist.

      Prometheus


      Etznab wrote:

      There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book,
      Dialogues With The Master (1970),
      called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.

      Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness
      (first published in 1913?) - and compare the text
      with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to Paul
      Twitchell in Dialogues With The Master.

      http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up
      http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNo\
      \\\mad.pdf
    • Non
      On the Truth vs. Fiction part and books from the 1910 era, I found an interesting article about Louise Hay and how her popularity really increased due to her
      Message 2 of 22 , Dec 8, 2012
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        On the Truth vs. Fiction part and books from the 1910 era, I found an interesting article about Louise Hay and how her popularity really increased due to her involvement with the Aids epidemic, especially in California. On the one hand she offered the hope of complete healing, while at the same time giving a disclaimer by saying that the healing may only be spiritual and not necessarily physical. (sounds kind of like what klemp and the like always do!) It is asserted that most of the dogma about the absolute power of positive thought, or whatever, was most popular when science or medicine didn't have clear evidence for a good cure to illness. Those with Aids were being shunned, especially by organized religions. I found this article doing some searches on New Age and Angels.

        http://www.icsahome.com/logon/elibdocview.asp?Subject=The+Queen+of+the+New+Age+

        I just thought it was interesting that what is really going on with New Age Religion is 'just a little bit of history repeating'.
        :D
        Then again I have come to the conclusion that all religions have their myths and angles to pray to for this or that. You might say that eck masters are just like angels or saints or what have you. It's all kind of the same stuff, just different depending on the culture. Name the religion and there will be variations and even changes as a result of cultural or tribal tendencies. Imagine what ekankar is really like in Africa or India or in the U.S. Has Klemp ever made a trip to Africa?

        Non ; )

        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello Etznab,
        > I was reading some
        > of this book, which
        > was written in 1913
        > or 15, and just about
        > every page sounds
        > a lot like Twitchell's
        > various writings.
        >
        > Twitchell must have
        > plagiarized the hell
        > out of this in order
        > to create his EK dogma
        > and to make himself
        > seem spiritually advanced,
        > knowledgable, and
        > wise. And, since PT
        > was a narcissist he
        > probably used this
        > info to impress others,
        > including Gail, when,
        > in truth, he was a
        > mere wannabe, liar,
        > and plagiarist.
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
        >
        > Etznab wrote:
        >
        > There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book,
        > Dialogues With The Master (1970),
        > called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.
        >
        > Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness
        > (first published in 1913?) - and compare the text
        > with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to Paul
        > Twitchell in Dialogues With The Master.
        >
        > http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up
        > http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNo\
        > \\\mad.pdf
        >
      • Russ Rodnick
        sure does have the same characteristics.  ________________________________ From: prometheus_973 To:
        Message 3 of 22 , Dec 9, 2012
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          sure does have the same characteristics. 


          From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
          To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Saturday, December 8, 2012 10:58 PM
          Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the Sound Current?

           
          Hello Etznab,
          I was reading some
          of this book, which
          was written in 1913
          or 15, and just about
          every page sounds
          a lot like Twitchell's
          various writings.

          Twitchell must have
          plagiarized the hell
          out of this in order
          to create his EK dogma
          and to make himself
          seem spiritually advanced,
          knowledgable, and
          wise. And, since PT
          was a narcissist he
          probably used this
          info to impress others,
          including Gail, when,
          in truth, he was a
          mere wannabe, liar,
          and plagiarist.

          Prometheus

          Etznab wrote:

          There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book,
          Dialogues With The Master (1970),
          called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.

          Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness
          (first published in 1913?) - and compare the text
          with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to Paul
          Twitchell in Dialogues With The Master.

          http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up
          http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNo\
          \\\mad.pdf



        • Russ Rodnick
          I was told by a HI who was a featured African seminar speaker, that the Africans seriously regard the chosen one as the mahanta and give them every
          Message 4 of 22 , Dec 9, 2012
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            I was told by a HI who was a featured African seminar speaker, that the Africans seriously regard the chosen one as the mahanta and give them every consideration while there; and that thousands of chelas and interested parties show up. 

            I have thought the eck provided a powerful juju against the black magicians of africa, of which I am told there are many. I know of a chief who possesses knowledge of ways to kill and effect people. He is considered a 'man of power' by those he looks after, here in the states. 

            This teaching's roots are based on actual metaphysical principles, and I'm afraid that it has developed 'legs' of its own. Add to this the power of belief, and you have a plethora of metaphysical phenomena; which go to the lore and mythology of the teaching/religion. 

            Like it or not, it will most likely live on. I daresay, some good may come from it. Some sincere people find solace in organized religion, even though it is mostly based on lies. 

            I still want to know the truth...

            Russ


            From: Non <eckchains@...>
            To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sunday, December 9, 2012 1:44 AM
            Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the Sound Current?

             
            On the Truth vs. Fiction part and books from the 1910 era, I found an interesting article about Louise Hay and how her popularity really increased due to her involvement with the Aids epidemic, especially in California. On the one hand she offered the hope of complete healing, while at the same time giving a disclaimer by saying that the healing may only be spiritual and not necessarily physical. (sounds kind of like what klemp and the like always do!) It is asserted that most of the dogma about the absolute power of positive thought, or whatever, was most popular when science or medicine didn't have clear evidence for a good cure to illness. Those with Aids were being shunned, especially by organized religions. I found this article doing some searches on New Age and Angels.

            http://www.icsahome.com/logon/elibdocview.asp?Subject=The+Queen+of+the+New+Age+

            I just thought it was interesting that what is really going on with New Age Religion is 'just a little bit of history repeating'.
            :D
            Then again I have come to the conclusion that all religions have their myths and angles to pray to for this or that. You might say that eck masters are just like angels or saints or what have you. It's all kind of the same stuff, just different depending on the culture. Name the religion and there will be variations and even changes as a result of cultural or tribal tendencies. Imagine what ekankar is really like in Africa or India or in the U.S. Has Klemp ever made a trip to Africa?

            Non ; )

            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hello Etznab,
            > I was reading some
            > of this book, which
            > was written in 1913
            > or 15, and just about
            > every page sounds
            > a lot like Twitchell's
            > various writings.
            >
            > Twitchell must have
            > plagiarized the hell
            > out of this in order
            > to create his EK dogma
            > and to make himself
            > seem spiritually advanced,
            > knowledgable, and
            > wise. And, since PT
            > was a narcissist he
            > probably used this
            > info to impress others,
            > including Gail, when,
            > in truth, he was a
            > mere wannabe, liar,
            > and plagiarist.
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            >
            > Etznab wrote:
            >
            > There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book,
            > Dialogues With The Master (1970),
            > called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.
            >
            > Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness
            > (first published in 1913?) - and compare the text
            > with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to Paul
            > Twitchell in Dialogues With The Master.
            >
            > http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up
            > http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNo Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (13)
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          • etznab@aol.com
            These are only sample excerpts, but will show in the two books where to look. *** Lord Sohang: Man is a spiritual being.     The source of this spiritual
            Message 5 of 22 , Dec 9, 2012
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              These are only sample excerpts, but will show in the two books where to
              look.

              ***

              Lord Sohang:

              "Man is a spiritual being.    
              "The source of this spiritual Omniscience, you may not, in our
              finite intelligence, fully cognize, because full cognition would
              preclude the possibility of finite expression.    
              "The destiny of man is to dwell in his true home.    
              "His true home is that nameless world where dwells the true Lord of
              all infinity.    
              "The argument of the saviors of the three worlds is that man's
              destiny is perfection.    
              "Man perfected becomes a god, they say.    
              "To become a God in the land of Daswan Dwar is to become immortal.
                 
              "Let me consider what this means, supposing it to be an axiom of
              truth.    
              "Mortality is subject to change and death. Mortality is the manifest
              - the stage upon which man in his life plays many parts.    
              "Immortality is what the word implies, Godhood, and recognized in
              the mortal 'I am' or, 'Om', the charged word of the Brahman of the
              world of Brahm. It stands for the changeless, birthless, deathless,
              unamable power that holds the worlds in space, and puts intelligence
              into man. [... .]

              - Dialogues With The Master, by Paul Twitchell (1970) p. 174

              Ali Nomad:

              Man is essentially a spiritual being.

              The source of this spiritual Omniscience we may not, in our finite
              intelligence, fully cognize, because full cognition would preclude the
              possibility of finite expression. The destiny of man is perfection. Man
              perfected becomes a god.

              "Only the gods are immortal," we are told.

              Let us consider what this means, supposing it to be an axiom of truth.

              Mortality is subject to change and death. Mortality is the
              manifest--the stage upon which "man in his life plays many parts."

              Immortality, is what the word says it is--godhood re-cognized in the
              mortal. "Im" or, "Om"--the more general term--stands for the
              Changeless. Birthless. Deathless. Unnamable Power that holds the worlds
              in space, and puts intelligence into man. [... .]

              http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up/search/omniscience

              Lord Sohang:

              "Each and every Soul, therefore, in the lower worlds has its spiritual
              counterpart - its other half with which it unites on the spiritual
              plane, when the time comes for the attainment of the highest goal of
              the world of Brahm and that counterpart is the ECK Spirit." (DWTM p.
              176)

              Ali Nomad:

              Each and every SOUL, therefore, has its spiritual counterpart--its
              "other half," with which it unites on the spiritual plane, when the
              time comes for attainment of immortality.

              http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/6/mode/2up/search/counterpart

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Russ Rodnick <russrodnick@...>
              To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
              <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Sun, Dec 9, 2012 8:51 am
              Subject: Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the
              Sound Current?

               
              sure does have the same characteristics. 


              From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
              To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Saturday, December 8, 2012 10:58 PM
              Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the
              Sound Current?


                Hello Etznab,
              I was reading some
              of this book, which
              was written in 1913
              or 15, and just about
              every page sounds
              a lot like Twitchell's
              various writings.

              Twitchell must have
              plagiarized the hell
              out of this in order
              to create his EK dogma
              and to make himself
              seem spiritually advanced,
              knowledgable, and
              wise. And, since PT
              was a narcissist he
              probably used this
              info to impress others,
              including Gail, when,
              in truth, he was a
              mere wannabe, liar,
              and plagiarist.

              Prometheus

              Etznab wrote:

              There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book,
              Dialogues With The Master (1970),
              called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.

              Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness
              (first published in 1913?) - and compare the text
              with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to Paul
              Twitchell in Dialogues With The Master.

              http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up
              http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNo\
              \\\mad.pdf
            • prometheus_973
              Hello Non and Russ, I too was once involved with metaphysics via The Unity School of Christianity. And, have explored Christian Science, to a degree, as well
              Message 6 of 22 , Dec 9, 2012
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                Hello Non and Russ,
                I too was once involved
                with metaphysics via
                The Unity School of
                Christianity. And, have
                explored Christian
                Science, to a degree,
                as well as other
                metaphysical thought
                prior to Eckankar.

                The danger is that
                New Age thought
                (Revised Metaphysics),
                and religious cults
                as Eckankar et al.,
                will encourage people
                to follow their Faith
                in alternative cultish
                cures such as positive
                thinking, white magic,
                homeopathy and other
                non orthodox magical/
                mystical/natural forms
                of medicine/healing.
                Healing Crystals anyone?

                But, these alternative
                treatments only go
                so far and these treatments
                can sometimes mask
                or hide serious health
                problems. People can
                confuse symptoms
                and side-effects and,
                via blind faith, will not
                seek timely traditional
                treatment proven to
                help or cure, until, it
                becomes too late!

                Those who put their
                faith and trust in the
                ECK and in Klemp and
                who think that HUing
                will help to heal them
                are deluded.

                EKists emulate Klemp
                with his focus on
                alternative medicine,
                but even Klemp, after
                falling on Black Ice
                and breaking his hip,
                needed to have surgery
                and metal work and
                was given pain meds
                and even asked for more!

                It's true that traditional
                medicine and prescription
                drugs are a racket of sorts,
                but vitamins and herbal
                remedies etc. are a racket
                too! And that applies to
                many other alternative
                forms of (metaphysical)
                New Age medicine and
                health remedies.

                Anyway, here's an excerpt
                from the below site. To me
                it shows a time-line of how
                people came to mistrust
                traditional medicine and the
                role that non traditional religion
                or psychic spirituality had
                to play.

                However, just because
                traditional Western Religion
                and Medicine had stumbled
                together doesn't mean that
                they are connected to each
                other. Western Medicine is
                based upon Science whereas
                Religion isn't! Neither Eastern
                or Western Religion, or their
                sects, are based upon facts.
                It's all about dogma based
                upon opposing beliefs and
                divine authority via revelation.

                And, individually, it's mostly
                about subjective faith and
                belief which is why non-
                traditional alternative forms
                of "medicine" are connected
                to non-traditional New Age
                thought and to metaphysics
                in general. Personally, I don't
                trust Western Medicine or
                doctors completely, but
                I don't trust Alternative
                Medicine at all... unlike
                many ECKists. Still, it's
                funny seeing ECKists
                accepting their Mahanta
                sitting in a wheelchair as
                though there's no significance
                as to how it happened or
                that it happened at all.

                http://www.icsahome.com/logon/elibdocview.asp?Subject=The+Queen+of+the+New+Age+

                "Hay's Religious Science is an example of what the scholar Catherine L. Albanese calls metaphysical religion, a tradition that began spreading in America in the mid-19th century. "For metaphysics," Albanese writes in "A Republic of Mind and Spirit," "religion turns on an individual's experience of `mind' (instead of `heart,' as in evangelicalism)." Metaphysical religion includes intuition or psychic work, clairvoyance and channeling otherworldly figures, and forms of it have been popularized in, for example, Christian Science, which its founder, Mary Baker Eddy, said would allow people to cure disease with prayer, and books like "The Power of Positive Thinking," by the preacher Norman Vincent Peale. What they all have in common — Christian Science; its cousin Religious Science; Peale's 1952 megaseller; and contemporary best sellers like Rhonda Byrne's "The Secret" — is a conviction that proper thinking, rather than religious faith or fervor, is the key to metaphysical power.

                Metaphysical religion has frequently stepped into the breach where Western medicine and Western religion will not or cannot go. When I asked The Rev. Wade Adkisson, the current pastor of Hay's old Church of Religious Science, why as a new church in the 1930s it appealed to people, he said: "At that time the medical world was very basic. A doctor carried with him two things: a bottle of whiskey and a knife. So people were looking for alternative methods of healing." Of course, Adkisson says he believes in those alternative methods of healing. If, as he says, "cancer is merely the outpicturing of one's emotional state," then it can be cured with prayer. But he also admits that for marketing mind cures in the 1930s, it helped that traditional medicine was so impoverished."

                Non wrote:
                >
                > On the Truth vs. Fiction part and books from the 1910 era, I found an interesting article about Louise Hay and how her popularity really increased due to her involvement with the Aids epidemic, especially in California. On the one hand she offered the hope of complete healing, while at the same time giving a disclaimer by saying that the healing may only be spiritual and not necessarily physical. (sounds kind of like what klemp and the like always do!) It is asserted that most of the dogma about the absolute power of positive thought, or whatever, was most popular when science or medicine didn't have clear evidence for a good cure to illness. Those with Aids were being shunned, especially by organized religions. I found this article doing some searches on New Age and Angels.
                >
                http://www.icsahome.com/logon/elibdocview.asp?Subject=The+Queen+of+the+New+Age+
                >
                > I just thought it was interesting that what is really going on with New Age Religion is 'just a little bit of history repeating'.
                > :D
                > Then again I have come to the conclusion that all religions have their myths and angles to pray to for this or that. You might say that eck masters are just like angels or saints or what have you. It's all kind of the same stuff, just different depending on the culture. Name the religion and there will be variations and even changes as a result of cultural or tribal tendencies. Imagine what ekankar is really like in Africa or India or in the U.S. Has Klemp ever made a trip to Africa?
                >
                > Non ; )
                >
                > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Hello Etznab,
                > > I was reading some
                > > of this book, which
                > > was written in 1913
                > > or 15, and just about
                > > every page sounds
                > > a lot like Twitchell's
                > > various writings.
                > >
                > > Twitchell must have
                > > plagiarized the hell
                > > out of this in order
                > > to create his EK dogma
                > > and to make himself
                > > seem spiritually advanced,
                > > knowledgable, and
                > > wise. And, since PT
                > > was a narcissist he
                > > probably used this
                > > info to impress others,
                > > including Gail, when,
                > > in truth, he was a
                > > mere wannabe, liar,
                > > and plagiarist.
                > >
                > > Prometheus
                > >
                > >
                > > Etznab wrote:
                > >
                > > There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book,
                > > Dialogues With The Master (1970),
                > > called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.
                > >
                > > Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness
                > > (first published in 1913?) - and compare the text
                > > with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to Paul
                > > Twitchell in Dialogues With The Master.
                > >
                > > http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up
                > > http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNo\
                > > \\\mad.pdf
                > >
                >
              • Janice Pfeiffer
                Thank you Non for your reply.  I guess I understand more about what you said.  Good luck, ... From: Non Subject:
                Message 7 of 22 , Dec 9, 2012
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                  Thank you Non for your reply.  I guess I understand more about what you said.  Good luck,

                  --- On Wed, 12/5/12, Non <eckchains@...> wrote:

                  From: Non <eckchains@...>
                  Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the Sound Current?
                  To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Wednesday, December 5, 2012, 8:13 AM

                   
                  Janice, I just have to say, that in person I am very shy and soft spoken, it's just that what I say may be disagreeable as it is often to the point, even if I try to express it gently. A friend of mine once sent me a card that said "It is better to be hated for who you are than loved for who you are not." My writing style is different than how I speak. I actually speak slowly and often have problems with people who talk fast. Actually, my main problem might be that in person I am afraid to simply be who I am. I am very sensitive to most people I meet, to a fault and spend more time listening, when I should probably be more spontaneous and even abrasive.

                  I think you are only seeing one side of me, as I express myself more directly in some of these blogs, and yes I hold in some anger that is more easily expressed in writing. I still have a problem with wanting to trust the cons too much, and yes getting taken. There seems to be more people than I remember who are callous and mean these days. Maybe hard times do that to people. I'm actually too nice in person, but it is based on both a sense of compassion as well as some guilt about my right to just be who I am. Sometimes it is OK to be just plain rude imo and not nice all the time, especially if someone is trying to push their arrogant, dogmatic spirituality/religion onto you.

                  Non ;)

                  --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer <jepfeiffer@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I too agree with Prometheus.  He and I have formed a lot of the same concepts it seems.  As far as the soul mate thing, Non, I don't think it is something you can make.  You are just fortunate when you meet some one that feels like an echo from the past.  You just know that you know them and you know so much about each other with out knowing how you know when you first meet.  My soul mate is gone now but we had something right from the start that couldn't be explained in words.  We could speak in half sentences and have perfect understanding.  He knew my thoughts and could feel my feelings.  He knew what I liked with out being told.  We could enjoy silence and not need to talk.  There was just something very real between us that didn't come from the present and didn't make logical sense in the physical world.  I do hope that at some point, you know what I am saying.  It is a very precious thing to have.  Maybe everyone doesn't have it in
                  > every life time.  It is true that you do express yourself sometimes in a some what abrasive manner but you also show a lot of insight at times and I have seen a lot of compassion in what you say also at times.  In your search, it would help if maybe you weren't quite so blunt with those you don't know well.  Wouldn't it be terrible if you chased a way the very one who does know you but because of a sharp initial few words, doesn't have a chance to take a good look and see that?  My experience when meeting people face to face is if there is a strong pull or a strong repulsion, it most likely does mean, you've known them before.  Sometimes it helps to just stand still and let the other person show you who they are.  About holding on to beliefs; I find religious people need to do that whereas spiritual people tend to change theirs as they evolve with more understanding.  That's what caused most of us to get into eckankar and what caused most of us
                  > to get out.  I use to feel angry about the lies but now I even feel a little gratitude for eckanar.  I never was one to accept things at face value and I usually wasn't fooled easily but I certainly was by eckankar.  It was a real experience.  It changed my life.  Not in the way, they intended maybe but I am now stronger, even more independent and I now know for the rest of my life, I can never be a part of any organized religious group again.  I think part of the reason I got into eckankar is I thought I needed to find those who were like me and I hoped that was it.  It wasn't but I thought I needed it to be.  Now I know I don't need that.  That's what it taught me.  Through it, I learned something of value about myself so it was a worthwhile experience.  Good luck with your search.  I hope you find just what you want.  Oh, don't forget to stand still; don't rush it and don't push it away.  Sound current and senses is another story for me
                  > so I won't comment now.  Again, all the best to you now and always. 
                  > --- On Tue, 12/4/12, Non <eckchains@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > From: Non <eckchains@...>
                  > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the Sound Current?
                  > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                  > Date: Tuesday, December 4, 2012, 9:28 AM
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >  
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > I agree with a lot of what you have said here. I don't quite get the Soulmate though. I have been met with mostly great difficulty in actualizing this, even though it sounds quite nice. I am open to experiencing this, yet I am also naturally intuitive and also he who questions a lot and enjoys experimenting and investigating. Most people I meet are into holding tight to their beliefs and don't like being around someone like me, if I am just being myself. For some reason I ruffle feathers so maybe that means I need to stay away from certain Birds. :) I don't know the answer.
                  >
                  > As far as the sound current. My experience has been dreams of beautiful music sometimes, but also just feeling. Not everyone is musical. The sound current and light may actually be too limiting. It is based on our two most used human senses, seeing and hearing. There is so much more richness involved. We are lacking in our sense of smell and there are other senses that other animals know and experience that make us look like idiots sometimes. Humans are very arrogant because of our superior ability to manipulate our environment, something that if unchecked can and does cause great havoc, destruction and killing just to kill.
                  >
                  > Feeling and intuition is very under rated. Feelings allow us to have compassion and empathy. That is a vibration I wish there was more of. People don't like it, because it also means that we may have to relate to the pain of another, or to our own pain. People are too hardened IMHO. At the same time, bless the ones who act out of compassion to advocate and fight those who are indifferent to at least living with some level of a little empathy. I think they have compassion in them, it is just repressed, and imo is always pushing to express. I dare say, that even klemp and his HI's are so frownish and fakish, because that is how you repress feelings and natural compassion. It is harder for humans, because we are more self-aware. Native American life often at least had sacred rituals for killing to eat. We are lost..... Light and sound meditations may just be a distraction and limiting us from our Whole Being. We cannot cut off a part of ourselves and Be our
                  > Whole Being, imo.
                  >
                  > Non ; )
                  >
                  > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hello Tyson, Russ, and All,
                  > > I believe that religious myth
                  > > was created to explain away
                  > > the phenomenal, and that
                  > > religion was created in order
                  > > to control the masses and,
                  > > thus, use this undertaking
                  > > for money, power, greed,
                  > > status and other self-benefits
                  > > for the hierarchies.
                  > >
                  > > The Blue Light/Blue Star?
                  > > The human mind/brain
                  > > functions similarly and
                  > > when attention is placed
                  > > upon subjects this produces
                  > > chemical and electrical
                  > > reactions. There are even
                  > > mixed but similar responses
                  > > to unconscious stimuli.
                  > > But many people realize
                  > > all of this but tend to
                  > > forget it when seeking
                  > > "spiritual" answers.
                  > >
                  > > People should not have
                  > > faith in the words of
                  > > others. People should
                  > > No Longer give others
                  > > 'the benefit of the doubt.'
                  > >
                  > > Yes, we can look at what
                  > > principles they are sharing
                  > > in order to help us to
                  > > achieve a greater realization
                  > > but we should not limit
                  > > ourselves from going
                  > > beyond the realizations
                  > > and achievements in
                  > > higher consciousness
                  > > of those we view as
                  > > ideals/icons.
                  > >
                  > > Thus, the concept of
                  > > "Master" needs to be
                  > > revised and eliminated.
                  > >
                  > > When the lessons have
                  > > been taught, via real
                  > > world examples of
                  > > living, it then becomes
                  > > our responsibility
                  > > to demonstrate what
                  > > we have learned as
                  > > it pertains to our
                  > > own unique individual
                  > > personality and
                  > > circumstances. We
                  > > move-on and into
                  > > our own unrestricted
                  > > conscious awareness.
                  > >
                  > > IMHO- Jesus, and not
                  > > always his apostles,
                  > > taught some really
                  > > advanced concepts.
                  > > Too advanced for
                  > > most of us today!
                  > >
                  > > I'll never forget this
                  > > one Fung Fu episode
                  > > where Cain ran into
                  > > some religious fanatics
                  > > who would not defend
                  > > themselves and would
                  > > turn the other cheek.
                  > > Cain showed them that
                  > > there was a third response.
                  > > Instead of becoming
                  > > a victim of violence,
                  > > or responding with
                  > > violence Cain stopped/
                  > > blocked the violence
                  > > i.e. punch or object
                  > > and redirected its
                  > > intended path.
                  > >
                  > > Anyway, I've heard
                  > > sounds when first
                  > > starting to mediate
                  > > via TM. Everyone
                  > > heard these tones.
                  > > Generally the mind
                  > > blocks out these
                  > > background noises
                  > > until it quiets down
                  > > and empties itself.
                  > > Actually, one can
                  > > follow these sounds
                  > > without placing
                  > > too much attention
                  > > on them. That's the
                  > > trick. One doesn't
                  > > place attention or
                  > > attachment on any
                  > > thought, imaginary
                  > > vision or sound no
                  > > matter how pleasant.
                  > >
                  > > Eventually, this will
                  > > produce other by-
                  > > products of awareness
                  > > such as contentment.
                  > >
                  > > I have to say that one
                  > > must discover their
                  > > own reality. Don't take
                  > > my word for anything.
                  > > Divine Awareness is
                  > > an individual experience
                  > > and not a group path.
                  > > I called it "Divine Awareness"
                  > > in oder to give this
                  > > private and personal
                  > > Discovery by Soul a
                  > > special designation.
                  > > By referring to the
                  > > uniqueness of the
                  > > individual experience
                  > > as 'Soul' does likewise.
                  > >
                  > > I will have to say that
                  > > I've had help in validating
                  > > that there is a Reality
                  > > beyond the scientific
                  > > explanations and that
                  > > of religious dogma.
                  > >
                  > > I can only say that
                  > > the Soulmate concept
                  > > (IMO) is real in that
                  > > it helps these Souls
                  > > to form a special
                  > > bond in order to merge
                  > > and harmonize their
                  > > vibrations and to better
                  > > 'tune-in' to glimpses
                  > > of, perhaps, our true
                  > > origins and potential
                  > > but also of this Here
                  > > and Now.
                  > >
                  > > Prometheus
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > "Tyson" wrote:
                  > > The sound current, bani,
                  > > shabd or nam is real.
                  > >
                  > > There is no religion that
                  > > can claim it as there own.
                  > >
                  > > What is fiction is the
                  > > dependance on a master
                  > > that is created by religions
                  > > of the light and sound.
                  > >
                  > > Only one initiation is
                  > > important.
                  > >
                  > > Yet faith in a past master
                  > > such as Christ, Krishna
                  > > or Guru Nanak is just as
                  > > valid.
                  > >
                  > > There is no mahanta.
                  > >
                  > > The blue star is no
                  > > other than a manifestation
                  > > created by a meeting
                  > > between the holy spirit
                  > > and ones higher self
                  > > (soul).
                  > >
                  > > For Harold to claim to
                  > > be the blue star is a
                  > > way to snare the gullible.
                  > > He is no more the blue
                  > > star than the second
                  > > coming of christ.
                  > >
                  > > I had heard the rushing
                  > > wind as a member of
                  > > eckankar so I wrongly
                  > > believed that this path
                  > > must be true.
                  > >
                  > > It was meditation on
                  > > the third eye that brought
                  > > the rushing wind, not
                  > > Klemp.
                  > >
                  > > Eckankar was taken from
                  > > the Sihk word Ek Ong Kar.
                  > > Ek Ong Kar means one
                  > > divine energy permeates
                  > > all things.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Russ wrote:
                  > > > I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is ex eckist, interviewing
                  > > David Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.
                  > >
                  > > > One of the interviewees, a man made a statement, paraphrasing here, that in
                  > > his mind it doesn't matter where the writings of eckankar come from because he
                  > > is finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it's more important to have a
                  > > connection with the sound current.
                  > > >
                  > > > I used to have that exact point of view. What changed for me?
                  > > >
                  > > > One thing I used to feel good about when talking about eck was this idea that
                  > > it has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was synonymous with the sound
                  > > current.
                  > > >
                  > > > It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored for a decade, after
                  > > becoming a 5th. I could no longer ignore this dissonance, caused by the
                  > > plaigarism and ultimately this had led to me dropping out of eckankar.
                  > > >
                  > > > I have a question concerning the sound current. I experience this sound,
                  > > sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous to my study of eck. Maybe
                  > > it isn't important, where you read about it, if you take it as a principle and
                  > > work with it.
                  > > >
                  > > > Do you folks think the sound current is bogus? Delusions?
                  > > >
                  > > > This is an interesting point because I am interested in truth...
                  > > >
                  > > > BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion, good work. But this by
                  > > itself doesn't go to the underlying issues concerning the question, "What is the
                  > > Truth regarding the idea of the sound current as a way of connection with the
                  > > Divine??"
                  > > >
                  > > > Thanks,
                  > > >
                  > > > Russ
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >

                • Janice Pfeiffer
                  I can t view the concept of a soulmate being two parts of a whole no matter where it comes from.  I don t believe any of us are half of a whole.  Maybe Paul
                  Message 8 of 22 , Dec 9, 2012
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I can't view the concept of a soulmate being two parts of a whole no matter where it comes from.  I don't believe any of us are half of a whole.  Maybe Paul needed that concept as a reason for why he fell for Gail. 

                    --- On Sat, 12/8/12, etznab18 <etznab@...> wrote:

                    From: etznab18 <etznab@...>
                    Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the Sound Current?
                    To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Saturday, December 8, 2012, 5:11 AM

                     
                    I don't believe Paul Twitchell reinvented the Soul Mates thing. It looks to me more like he plagiarized, or paraphrased about it (adding his own spin as well, under the guise of Eck Masters, etc.). But hey, Eckankar is not a cult and it's against spiritual law to push one's beliefs on another :) If you don't believe me just read the FAQ section on Eckankar's web site. Look for the question: Is Eckankar a cult?

                    ***

                    There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book, Dialogues With The Master (1970), called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.

                    Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness (first published in 1913?) - and compare the text with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to Paul Twitchell in Dialogues With The Master.

                    http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up

                    http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNomad.pdf

                    ***

                    Remember that controversial subject of Soul Mates which appeared in Paul Twitche;ll's earlier books (I thought it was TTF, but here is something in DWTM)?

                    Ali Nomad:

                    Each and every SOUL, therefore, has its spiritual counterpart--its "other half," with which it unites on the spiritual plane, when the time comes for attainment of immortality.

                    Lord Sohang:

                    "Each and every Soul, therefore, in the lower worlds has its spiritual counterpart - its other half with which it unites on the spiritual plane, when the time comes for the attainment of the highest goal of the world of Brahm and that counterpart is the ECK Spirit." (DWTM p. 176)

                    https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!searchin/alt.religion.eckankar/soul$20mates|sort:date/alt.religion.eckankar/9_e16rhw3gA/3VmvQQ811QsJ

                    Now of course it depends on who Paul Twitchell is plagiarizing, as the information can vary. It can even appear contradictory. Example:

                    [...] But unless the union has already been made in heaven through pure love, the physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness, for like all true sacraments it must be entered into and registered upon all planes. (p. 220)
                    The Law of Divine Love will bring to each Soul its true marriage, a union in perfect purity on all planes. This according to the one life-theory is of course impossible for all; but since reincarnation is a fact, the Soul, through repeated experiences, learns to follow its Divine Guidance, hence will ultimately find its true mate. But they can be spiritually as well as physically married to their mates only when the old accounts of both have been balanced and the old complications set up through the mistakes of the past have been worked out. [... .]. (p. 221)

                    The Voice Of Isis And Realms Of The Living Dead, by Harriett Augusta Curtiss

                    http://archive.org/stream/TheVoiceOfIsis2ndEdition/CurtissFhAndHaTheVoiceOfIsis2ndEdition_djvu.txt

                    Rebazar Tarzs in DWTM:

                    "Now for the part of union between man and woman. Unless this union has been made on the higher planes through pure thought, the physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness, for like all true sacraments it must be entered into and registered upon all planes.
                    "The law of divine love will bring to each Soul Its true marriage and union in perfect purity on all planes. This true marriage is that of Soul with the ECK - the polarization of each Soul - not two Souls or man and woman coming together. And, as it is, each Soul will be guided through repeated experience by divine guidance until It finds this true love, the love of ECK through the Mahanta. You can be spiritually as well as physically married to a mate only when the old accounts of both have been balanced, and old complications set up through mistakes of the past have been worked out. (p. 115)

                    (My guess is that someone revised the original DWTM manuscript since the ECK (all caps) trademark didn't come about until 1968 and the Mahanta term didn't come into vogue until 1969; whereas the DWTM manuscript was reportedly written in 1956!)

                    Now I remember (I think it was in The Tiger's Fang, Or was it The Eck-Vidya?) some Soul Mates controversy in Eckankar history where I believe Harold Klemp and Eckankar had to "correct" what Paul Twitchell earlier wrote. It was no longer about two people coming together, but a person finding (in so many words) their own "higher self".

                    I haven't finished checking all the references to Soul Mates in all of Paul's books, so don't just go on what I quoted from DWTM.

                    ***

                    Btw, my Yahoo has been bouncing since Nov. 28 so I've been out of the loop since then and hadn't received any posts via email. Just now are catching up.

                    --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hello Non eckchains and All,
                    > The Soulmate theory
                    > phenomena is an interesting
                    > spiritual perspective
                    > and is, actually, unlimited
                    > by conventional New Age
                    > thought. Eckankar (PT)
                    > reinvented it with a
                    > Twin-Soul perspective.
                    > This is interesting, but
                    > IMO it shouldn't be limited
                    > to or by PT's "Twin" Soul
                    > view and a single pairing
                    > only.
                    >
                    > Thus, the connection that
                    > some/many Souls have with
                    > one another (IMO) s/b referred
                    > to in the plural. Thus, Soulmates
                    > is more than one pairing.
                    > Unfortunately, for Eckists,
                    > Klemp has them locked into
                    > a "Twin" concept when there
                    > are Triplets and many more!
                    > This phenomena can be
                    > a special connection/attraction
                    > with lifelong friends, as well,
                    > and not always be with sexual
                    > partners.
                    >
                    > As far as Klemp's fraud
                    > and his "frownish and fakish"
                    > H.I.'s, well, that's to be
                    > expected when they emulate
                    > HK's own behaviour via clues
                    > with the way the EK hierarchy
                    > is run or the way in which
                    > he speaks/refers to Joan and/
                    > or tells his stories.
                    >
                    > With Klemp there's a lack
                    > of forgiveness, compassion,
                    > and empathy. These are
                    > missing from Klemp's own
                    > perspectives in his own life
                    > stories.
                    >
                    > It's easy for him to judge
                    > others and point out flaws
                    > or to add "insight" and to
                    > do EK tweaks on the letters
                    > sent to him. And, that's
                    > what Klemp does when
                    > he "writes" in his hermit
                    > batty cave.
                    >
                    > Thus, many of HK's RESAs
                    > emulate his lack of empathy,
                    > compassion, and forgiveness.
                    > They talk a lot about "love"
                    > but when it comes to the
                    > business/spiritual side of
                    > Eckankar and the "Guidelines,"
                    > as set forth by HK via the
                    > ESC, there is not much room
                    > leftover for the byproducts
                    > of love.
                    >
                    > Look at the way the Higher
                    > initiations are handed out.
                    > There are always strings
                    > attached and it has more
                    > to do with "Outer" posturing
                    > and faking it with physical
                    > requirements. What is said
                    > or isn't said to the RESA
                    > or done as a volunteer,
                    > than with anything else
                    > or with one's visible goodness,
                    > has more importance in
                    > deciding who gets a pink
                    > slip. It's not love for God.
                    > Long-time Eckists who
                    > are loyal and loving and
                    > are very nice people are
                    > excluded from becoming
                    > H.I.s because they haven't
                    > jumped through enough
                    > physical hoops of training,
                    > retraining, volunteering, etc.
                    >
                    > Or, maybe they didn't seem
                    > like a 'take charge" leader
                    > or have a college education
                    > and/or were high profile
                    > professionals. It's amazing
                    > how petty RESAs can be,
                    > and these people are the
                    > "righthand" of Klemp.
                    >
                    > In truth, many people who
                    > left Eckankar did so out of
                    > frustration caused via neglect
                    > and unloving behavior towards
                    > them. Once you've become
                    > a member their main goal
                    > has been achieved. From
                    > there they dangle the carrot
                    > for the higher initiations
                    > and, now, make it very
                    > difficult to achieve the 7th.
                    > Eckists need to become
                    > ESAs to become RESAs
                    > and unless you're already
                    > an ESA it's, now, much
                    > more difficult to achieve.
                    > And, for a 6th ESA to get
                    > the 7th they, usually, need
                    > to become a RESA.
                    >
                    > Thus, Klemp slowed-down
                    > Initiations in 1985 due to
                    > Darwin making 500 new
                    > 5ths before leaving office.
                    > So, more that 25 years later
                    > what is Klemp's excuse for
                    > not making more H.I.s and
                    > for not expanding the "outer"
                    > initiations and their numbers?
                    >
                    > It's actually a simple/obvious
                    > explanation. Klemp is selfish.
                    >
                    > Klemp's lack of empathy,
                    > compassion, forgiveness and
                    > real, true love for his fellow
                    > eckists, and the trickle-down
                    > effect within the EK Hierarchy,
                    > is why Eckankar and ECKists
                    > are broken and lost. Their
                    > delusional faith and fellowship
                    > (it's a numbers game) is
                    > what they cling to as do
                    > all religionists. Yet, as with
                    > all religionists, their faith
                    > has the only chosen ones
                    > who have been gifted with
                    > special insight into God
                    > (or whatever name they use).
                    > EK is simply more of the same
                    > but tweaked to fit a special
                    > New Age/Metaphysical mindset.
                    > It's the Easy Way until those,
                    > now, with less than 30 plus
                    > years want a 6th or 7th
                    > initiation.
                    >
                    > Prometheus
                    >
                    >
                    > "Non" eckchains wrote:
                    > I agree with a lot of what you have said here. I don't quite get the Soulmate
                    > though. I have been met with mostly great difficulty in actualizing this, even
                    > though it sounds quite nice. I am open to experiencing this, yet I am also
                    > naturally intuitive and also he who questions a lot and enjoys experimenting and
                    > investigating. Most people I meet are into holding tight to their beliefs and
                    > don't like being around someone like me, if I am just being myself. For some
                    > reason I ruffle feathers so maybe that means I need to stay away from certain
                    > Birds. :) I don't know the answer.
                    >
                    > As far as the sound current. My experience has been dreams of beautiful music
                    > sometimes, but also just feeling. Not everyone is musical. The sound current and
                    > light may actually be too limiting. It is based on our two most used human
                    > senses, seeing and hearing. There is so much more richness involved. We are
                    > lacking in our sense of smell and there are other senses that other animals know
                    > and experience that make us look like idiots sometimes. Humans are very arrogant
                    > because of our superior ability to manipulate our environment, something that if
                    > unchecked can and does cause great havoc, destruction and killing just to kill.
                    >
                    > Feeling and intuition is very under rated. Feelings allow us to have compassion
                    > and empathy. That is a vibration I wish there was more of. People don't like it,
                    > because it also means that we may have to relate to the pain of another, or to
                    > our own pain. People are too hardened IMHO. At the same time, bless the ones who
                    > act out of compassion to advocate and fight those who are indifferent to at
                    > least living with some level of a little empathy. I think they have compassion
                    > in them, it is just repressed, and imo is always pushing to express. I dare say,
                    > that even klemp and his HI's are so frownish and fakish, because that is how you
                    > repress feelings and natural compassion. It is harder for humans, because we are
                    > more self-aware. Native American life often at least had sacred rituals for
                    > killing to eat. We are lost..... Light and sound meditations may just be a
                    > distraction and limiting us from our Whole Being. We cannot cut off a part of
                    > ourselves and Be our Whole Being, imo.
                    >
                    > Non ; )
                    >
                    >
                    > <prometheus wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Hello Tyson, Russ, and All,
                    > > I believe that religious myth
                    > > was created to explain away
                    > > the phenomenal, and that
                    > > religion was created in order
                    > > to control the masses and,
                    > > thus, use this undertaking
                    > > for money, power, greed,
                    > > status and other self-benefits
                    > > for the hierarchies.
                    > >
                    > > The Blue Light/Blue Star?
                    > > The human mind/brain
                    > > functions similarly and
                    > > when attention is placed
                    > > upon subjects this produces
                    > > chemical and electrical
                    > > reactions. There are even
                    > > mixed but similar responses
                    > > to unconscious stimuli.
                    > > But many people realize
                    > > all of this but tend to
                    > > forget it when seeking
                    > > "spiritual" answers.
                    > >
                    > > People should not have
                    > > faith in the words of
                    > > others. People should
                    > > No Longer give others
                    > > 'the benefit of the doubt.'
                    > >
                    > > Yes, we can look at what
                    > > principles they are sharing
                    > > in order to help us to
                    > > achieve a greater realization
                    > > but we should not limit
                    > > ourselves from going
                    > > beyond the realizations
                    > > and achievements in
                    > > higher consciousness
                    > > of those we view as
                    > > ideals/icons.
                    > >
                    > > Thus, the concept of
                    > > "Master" needs to be
                    > > revised and eliminated.
                    > >
                    > > When the lessons have
                    > > been taught, via real
                    > > world examples of
                    > > living, it then becomes
                    > > our responsibility
                    > > to demonstrate what
                    > > we have learned as
                    > > it pertains to our
                    > > own unique individual
                    > > personality and
                    > > circumstances. We
                    > > move-on and into
                    > > our own unrestricted
                    > > conscious awareness.
                    > >
                    > > IMHO- Jesus, and not
                    > > always his apostles,
                    > > taught some really
                    > > advanced concepts.
                    > > Too advanced for
                    > > most of us today!
                    > >
                    > > I'll never forget this
                    > > one Fung Fu episode
                    > > where Cain ran into
                    > > some religious fanatics
                    > > who would not defend
                    > > themselves and would
                    > > turn the other cheek.
                    > > Cain showed them that
                    > > there was a third response.
                    > > Instead of becoming
                    > > a victim of violence,
                    > > or responding with
                    > > violence Cain stopped/
                    > > blocked the violence
                    > > i.e. punch or object
                    > > and redirected its
                    > > intended path.
                    > >
                    > > Anyway, I've heard
                    > > sounds when first
                    > > starting to mediate
                    > > via TM. Everyone
                    > > heard these tones.
                    > > Generally the mind
                    > > blocks out these
                    > > background noises
                    > > until it quiets down
                    > > and empties itself.
                    > > Actually, one can
                    > > follow these sounds
                    > > without placing
                    > > too much attention
                    > > on them. That's the
                    > > trick. One doesn't
                    > > place attention or
                    > > attachment on any
                    > > thought, imaginary
                    > > vision or sound no
                    > > matter how pleasant.
                    > >
                    > > Eventually, this will
                    > > produce other by-
                    > > products of awareness
                    > > such as contentment.
                    > >
                    > > I have to say that one
                    > > must discover their
                    > > own reality. Don't take
                    > > my word for anything.
                    > > Divine Awareness is
                    > > an individual experience
                    > > and not a group path.
                    > > I called it "Divine Awareness"
                    > > in oder to give this
                    > > private and personal
                    > > Discovery by Soul a
                    > > special designation.
                    > > By referring to the
                    > > uniqueness of the
                    > > individual experience
                    > > as 'Soul' does likewise.
                    > >
                    > > I will have to say that
                    > > I've had help in validating
                    > > that there is a Reality
                    > > beyond the scientific
                    > > explanations and that
                    > > of religious dogma.
                    > >
                    > > I can only say that
                    > > the Soulmate concept
                    > > (IMO) is real in that
                    > > it helps these Souls
                    > > to form a special
                    > > bond in order to merge
                    > > and harmonize their
                    > > vibrations and to better
                    > > 'tune-in' to glimpses
                    > > of, perhaps, our true
                    > > origins and potential
                    > > but also of this Here
                    > > and Now.
                    > >
                    > > Prometheus
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > "Tyson" wrote:
                    > > The sound current, bani,
                    > > shabd or nam is real.
                    > >
                    > > There is no religion that
                    > > can claim it as there own.
                    > >
                    > > What is fiction is the
                    > > dependance on a master
                    > > that is created by religions
                    > > of the light and sound.
                    > >
                    > > Only one initiation is
                    > > important.
                    > >
                    > > Yet faith in a past master
                    > > such as Christ, Krishna
                    > > or Guru Nanak is just as
                    > > valid.
                    > >
                    > > There is no mahanta.
                    > >
                    > > The blue star is no
                    > > other than a manifestation
                    > > created by a meeting
                    > > between the holy spirit
                    > > and ones higher self
                    > > (soul).
                    > >
                    > > For Harold to claim to
                    > > be the blue star is a
                    > > way to snare the gullible.
                    > > He is no more the blue
                    > > star than the second
                    > > coming of christ.
                    > >
                    > > I had heard the rushing
                    > > wind as a member of
                    > > eckankar so I wrongly
                    > > believed that this path
                    > > must be true.
                    > >
                    > > It was meditation on
                    > > the third eye that brought
                    > > the rushing wind, not
                    > > Klemp.
                    > >
                    > > Eckankar was taken from
                    > > the Sihk word Ek Ong Kar.
                    > > Ek Ong Kar means one
                    > > divine energy permeates
                    > > all things.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Russ wrote:
                    > > > I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is ex eckist, interviewing
                    > > David Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.
                    > >
                    > > > One of the interviewees, a man made a statement, paraphrasing here, that in
                    > > his mind it doesn't matter where the writings of eckankar come from because he
                    > > is finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it's more important to have
                    > a
                    > > connection with the sound current.
                    > > >
                    > > > I used to have that exact point of view. What changed for me?
                    > > >
                    > > > One thing I used to feel good about when talking about eck was this idea
                    > that
                    > > it has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was synonymous with the
                    > sound
                    > > current.
                    > > >
                    > > > It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored for a decade, after
                    > > becoming a 5th. I could no longer ignore this dissonance, caused by the
                    > > plaigarism and ultimately this had led to me dropping out of eckankar.
                    > > >
                    > > > I have a question concerning the sound current. I experience this sound,
                    > > sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous to my study of eck.
                    > Maybe
                    > > it isn't important, where you read about it, if you take it as a principle and
                    > > work with it.
                    > > >
                    > > > Do you folks think the sound current is bogus? Delusions?
                    > > >
                    > > > This is an interesting point because I am interested in truth...
                    > > >
                    > > > BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion, good work. But this by
                    > > itself doesn't go to the underlying issues concerning the question, "What is
                    > the
                    > > Truth regarding the idea of the sound current as a way of connection with the
                    > > Divine??"
                    > > >
                    > > > Thanks,
                    > > >
                    > > > Russ
                    >

                  • harrisonferrel
                    I agree. But I also think that most New Age thinking is absurd because it is baseless and without evidence. The soul concept cannot be proven, let alone the
                    Message 9 of 22 , Dec 10, 2012
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                      I agree. But I also think that most New Age thinking is absurd because it is baseless and without evidence. The soul concept cannot be proven, let alone the soulmate idea.



                      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer <jepfeiffer@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I can't view the concept of a soulmate being two parts of a whole no matter where it comes from.  I don't believe any of us are half of a whole.  Maybe Paul needed that concept as a reason for why he fell for Gail. 
                      >
                      > --- On Sat, 12/8/12, etznab18 <etznab@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > From: etznab18 <etznab@...>
                      > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the Sound Current?
                      > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                      > Date: Saturday, December 8, 2012, 5:11 AM
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >  
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I don't believe Paul Twitchell reinvented the Soul Mates thing. It looks to me more like he plagiarized, or paraphrased about it (adding his own spin as well, under the guise of Eck Masters, etc.). But hey, Eckankar is not a cult and it's against spiritual law to push one's beliefs on another :) If you don't believe me just read the FAQ section on Eckankar's web site. Look for the question: Is Eckankar a cult?
                      >
                      > ***
                      >
                      > There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book, Dialogues With The Master (1970), called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.
                      >
                      > Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness (first published in 1913?) - and compare the text with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to Paul Twitchell in Dialogues With The Master.
                      >
                      > http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up
                      >
                      > http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNomad.pdf
                      >
                      > ***
                      >
                      > Remember that controversial subject of Soul Mates which appeared in Paul Twitche;ll's earlier books (I thought it was TTF, but here is something in DWTM)?
                      >
                      > Ali Nomad:
                      >
                      > Each and every SOUL, therefore, has its spiritual counterpart--its "other half," with which it unites on the spiritual plane, when the time comes for attainment of immortality.
                      >
                      > Lord Sohang:
                      >
                      > "Each and every Soul, therefore, in the lower worlds has its spiritual counterpart - its other half with which it unites on the spiritual plane, when the time comes for the attainment of the highest goal of the world of Brahm and that counterpart is the ECK Spirit." (DWTM p. 176)
                      >
                      > https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!searchin/alt.religion.eckankar/soul$20mates|sort:date/alt.religion.eckankar/9_e16rhw3gA/3VmvQQ811QsJ
                      >
                      > Now of course it depends on who Paul Twitchell is plagiarizing, as the information can vary. It can even appear contradictory. Example:
                      >
                      > [...] But unless the union has already been made in heaven through pure love, the physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness, for like all true sacraments it must be entered into and registered upon all planes. (p. 220)
                      > The Law of Divine Love will bring to each Soul its true marriage, a union in perfect purity on all planes. This according to the one life-theory is of course impossible for all; but since reincarnation is a fact, the Soul, through repeated experiences, learns to follow its Divine Guidance, hence will ultimately find its true mate. But they can be spiritually as well as physically married to their mates only when the old accounts of both have been balanced and the old complications set up through the mistakes of the past have been worked out. [... .]. (p. 221)
                      >
                      > The Voice Of Isis And Realms Of The Living Dead, by Harriett Augusta Curtiss
                      >
                      > http://archive.org/stream/TheVoiceOfIsis2ndEdition/CurtissFhAndHaTheVoiceOfIsis2ndEdition_djvu.txt
                      >
                      > Rebazar Tarzs in DWTM:
                      >
                      > "Now for the part of union between man and woman. Unless this union has been made on the higher planes through pure thought, the physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness, for like all true sacraments it must be entered into and registered upon all planes.
                      > "The law of divine love will bring to each Soul Its true marriage and union in perfect purity on all planes. This true marriage is that of Soul with the ECK - the polarization of each Soul - not two Souls or man and woman coming together. And, as it is, each Soul will be guided through repeated experience by divine guidance until It finds this true love, the love of ECK through the Mahanta. You can be spiritually as well as physically married to a mate only when the old accounts of both have been balanced, and old complications set up through mistakes of the past have been worked out. (p. 115)
                      >
                      > (My guess is that someone revised the original DWTM manuscript since the ECK (all caps) trademark didn't come about until 1968 and the Mahanta term didn't come into vogue until 1969; whereas the DWTM manuscript was reportedly written in 1956!)
                      >
                      > Now I remember (I think it was in The Tiger's Fang, Or was it The Eck-Vidya?) some Soul Mates controversy in Eckankar history where I believe Harold Klemp and Eckankar had to "correct" what Paul Twitchell earlier wrote. It was no longer about two people coming together, but a person finding (in so many words) their own "higher self".
                      >
                      > I haven't finished checking all the references to Soul Mates in all of Paul's books, so don't just go on what I quoted from DWTM.
                      >
                      > ***
                      >
                      > Btw, my Yahoo has been bouncing since Nov. 28 so I've been out of the loop since then and hadn't received any posts via email. Just now are catching up.
                      >
                      > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Hello Non eckchains and All,
                      > > The Soulmate theory
                      > > phenomena is an interesting
                      > > spiritual perspective
                      > > and is, actually, unlimited
                      > > by conventional New Age
                      > > thought. Eckankar (PT)
                      > > reinvented it with a
                      > > Twin-Soul perspective.
                      > > This is interesting, but
                      > > IMO it shouldn't be limited
                      > > to or by PT's "Twin" Soul
                      > > view and a single pairing
                      > > only.
                      > >
                      > > Thus, the connection that
                      > > some/many Souls have with
                      > > one another (IMO) s/b referred
                      > > to in the plural. Thus, Soulmates
                      > > is more than one pairing.
                      > > Unfortunately, for Eckists,
                      > > Klemp has them locked into
                      > > a "Twin" concept when there
                      > > are Triplets and many more!
                      > > This phenomena can be
                      > > a special connection/attraction
                      > > with lifelong friends, as well,
                      > > and not always be with sexual
                      > > partners.
                      > >
                      > > As far as Klemp's fraud
                      > > and his "frownish and fakish"
                      > > H.I.'s, well, that's to be
                      > > expected when they emulate
                      > > HK's own behaviour via clues
                      > > with the way the EK hierarchy
                      > > is run or the way in which
                      > > he speaks/refers to Joan and/
                      > > or tells his stories.
                      > >
                      > > With Klemp there's a lack
                      > > of forgiveness, compassion,
                      > > and empathy. These are
                      > > missing from Klemp's own
                      > > perspectives in his own life
                      > > stories.
                      > >
                      > > It's easy for him to judge
                      > > others and point out flaws
                      > > or to add "insight" and to
                      > > do EK tweaks on the letters
                      > > sent to him. And, that's
                      > > what Klemp does when
                      > > he "writes" in his hermit
                      > > batty cave.
                      > >
                      > > Thus, many of HK's RESAs
                      > > emulate his lack of empathy,
                      > > compassion, and forgiveness.
                      > > They talk a lot about "love"
                      > > but when it comes to the
                      > > business/spiritual side of
                      > > Eckankar and the "Guidelines,"
                      > > as set forth by HK via the
                      > > ESC, there is not much room
                      > > leftover for the byproducts
                      > > of love.
                      > >
                      > > Look at the way the Higher
                      > > initiations are handed out.
                      > > There are always strings
                      > > attached and it has more
                      > > to do with "Outer" posturing
                      > > and faking it with physical
                      > > requirements. What is said
                      > > or isn't said to the RESA
                      > > or done as a volunteer,
                      > > than with anything else
                      > > or with one's visible goodness,
                      > > has more importance in
                      > > deciding who gets a pink
                      > > slip. It's not love for God.
                      > > Long-time Eckists who
                      > > are loyal and loving and
                      > > are very nice people are
                      > > excluded from becoming
                      > > H.I.s because they haven't
                      > > jumped through enough
                      > > physical hoops of training,
                      > > retraining, volunteering, etc.
                      > >
                      > > Or, maybe they didn't seem
                      > > like a 'take charge" leader
                      > > or have a college education
                      > > and/or were high profile
                      > > professionals. It's amazing
                      > > how petty RESAs can be,
                      > > and these people are the
                      > > "righthand" of Klemp.
                      > >
                      > > In truth, many people who
                      > > left Eckankar did so out of
                      > > frustration caused via neglect
                      > > and unloving behavior towards
                      > > them. Once you've become
                      > > a member their main goal
                      > > has been achieved. From
                      > > there they dangle the carrot
                      > > for the higher initiations
                      > > and, now, make it very
                      > > difficult to achieve the 7th.
                      > > Eckists need to become
                      > > ESAs to become RESAs
                      > > and unless you're already
                      > > an ESA it's, now, much
                      > > more difficult to achieve.
                      > > And, for a 6th ESA to get
                      > > the 7th they, usually, need
                      > > to become a RESA.
                      > >
                      > > Thus, Klemp slowed-down
                      > > Initiations in 1985 due to
                      > > Darwin making 500 new
                      > > 5ths before leaving office.
                      > > So, more that 25 years later
                      > > what is Klemp's excuse for
                      > > not making more H.I.s and
                      > > for not expanding the "outer"
                      > > initiations and their numbers?
                      > >
                      > > It's actually a simple/obvious
                      > > explanation. Klemp is selfish.
                      > >
                      > > Klemp's lack of empathy,
                      > > compassion, forgiveness and
                      > > real, true love for his fellow
                      > > eckists, and the trickle-down
                      > > effect within the EK Hierarchy,
                      > > is why Eckankar and ECKists
                      > > are broken and lost. Their
                      > > delusional faith and fellowship
                      > > (it's a numbers game) is
                      > > what they cling to as do
                      > > all religionists. Yet, as with
                      > > all religionists, their faith
                      > > has the only chosen ones
                      > > who have been gifted with
                      > > special insight into God
                      > > (or whatever name they use).
                      > > EK is simply more of the same
                      > > but tweaked to fit a special
                      > > New Age/Metaphysical mindset.
                      > > It's the Easy Way until those,
                      > > now, with less than 30 plus
                      > > years want a 6th or 7th
                      > > initiation.
                      > >
                      > > Prometheus
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > "Non" eckchains wrote:
                      > > I agree with a lot of what you have said here. I don't quite get the Soulmate
                      > > though. I have been met with mostly great difficulty in actualizing this, even
                      > > though it sounds quite nice. I am open to experiencing this, yet I am also
                      > > naturally intuitive and also he who questions a lot and enjoys experimenting and
                      > > investigating. Most people I meet are into holding tight to their beliefs and
                      > > don't like being around someone like me, if I am just being myself. For some
                      > > reason I ruffle feathers so maybe that means I need to stay away from certain
                      > > Birds. :) I don't know the answer.
                      > >
                      > > As far as the sound current. My experience has been dreams of beautiful music
                      > > sometimes, but also just feeling. Not everyone is musical. The sound current and
                      > > light may actually be too limiting. It is based on our two most used human
                      > > senses, seeing and hearing. There is so much more richness involved. We are
                      > > lacking in our sense of smell and there are other senses that other animals know
                      > > and experience that make us look like idiots sometimes. Humans are very arrogant
                      > > because of our superior ability to manipulate our environment, something that if
                      > > unchecked can and does cause great havoc, destruction and killing just to kill.
                      > >
                      > > Feeling and intuition is very under rated. Feelings allow us to have compassion
                      > > and empathy. That is a vibration I wish there was more of. People don't like it,
                      > > because it also means that we may have to relate to the pain of another, or to
                      > > our own pain. People are too hardened IMHO. At the same time, bless the ones who
                      > > act out of compassion to advocate and fight those who are indifferent to at
                      > > least living with some level of a little empathy. I think they have compassion
                      > > in them, it is just repressed, and imo is always pushing to express. I dare say,
                      > > that even klemp and his HI's are so frownish and fakish, because that is how you
                      > > repress feelings and natural compassion. It is harder for humans, because we are
                      > > more self-aware. Native American life often at least had sacred rituals for
                      > > killing to eat. We are lost..... Light and sound meditations may just be a
                      > > distraction and limiting us from our Whole Being. We cannot cut off a part of
                      > > ourselves and Be our Whole Being, imo.
                      > >
                      > > Non ; )
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > <prometheus wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Hello Tyson, Russ, and All,
                      > > > I believe that religious myth
                      > > > was created to explain away
                      > > > the phenomenal, and that
                      > > > religion was created in order
                      > > > to control the masses and,
                      > > > thus, use this undertaking
                      > > > for money, power, greed,
                      > > > status and other self-benefits
                      > > > for the hierarchies.
                      > > >
                      > > > The Blue Light/Blue Star?
                      > > > The human mind/brain
                      > > > functions similarly and
                      > > > when attention is placed
                      > > > upon subjects this produces
                      > > > chemical and electrical
                      > > > reactions. There are even
                      > > > mixed but similar responses
                      > > > to unconscious stimuli.
                      > > > But many people realize
                      > > > all of this but tend to
                      > > > forget it when seeking
                      > > > "spiritual" answers.
                      > > >
                      > > > People should not have
                      > > > faith in the words of
                      > > > others. People should
                      > > > No Longer give others
                      > > > 'the benefit of the doubt.'
                      > > >
                      > > > Yes, we can look at what
                      > > > principles they are sharing
                      > > > in order to help us to
                      > > > achieve a greater realization
                      > > > but we should not limit
                      > > > ourselves from going
                      > > > beyond the realizations
                      > > > and achievements in
                      > > > higher consciousness
                      > > > of those we view as
                      > > > ideals/icons.
                      > > >
                      > > > Thus, the concept of
                      > > > "Master" needs to be
                      > > > revised and eliminated.
                      > > >
                      > > > When the lessons have
                      > > > been taught, via real
                      > > > world examples of
                      > > > living, it then becomes
                      > > > our responsibility
                      > > > to demonstrate what
                      > > > we have learned as
                      > > > it pertains to our
                      > > > own unique individual
                      > > > personality and
                      > > > circumstances. We
                      > > > move-on and into
                      > > > our own unrestricted
                      > > > conscious awareness.
                      > > >
                      > > > IMHO- Jesus, and not
                      > > > always his apostles,
                      > > > taught some really
                      > > > advanced concepts.
                      > > > Too advanced for
                      > > > most of us today!
                      > > >
                      > > > I'll never forget this
                      > > > one Fung Fu episode
                      > > > where Cain ran into
                      > > > some religious fanatics
                      > > > who would not defend
                      > > > themselves and would
                      > > > turn the other cheek.
                      > > > Cain showed them that
                      > > > there was a third response.
                      > > > Instead of becoming
                      > > > a victim of violence,
                      > > > or responding with
                      > > > violence Cain stopped/
                      > > > blocked the violence
                      > > > i.e. punch or object
                      > > > and redirected its
                      > > > intended path.
                      > > >
                      > > > Anyway, I've heard
                      > > > sounds when first
                      > > > starting to mediate
                      > > > via TM. Everyone
                      > > > heard these tones.
                      > > > Generally the mind
                      > > > blocks out these
                      > > > background noises
                      > > > until it quiets down
                      > > > and empties itself.
                      > > > Actually, one can
                      > > > follow these sounds
                      > > > without placing
                      > > > too much attention
                      > > > on them. That's the
                      > > > trick. One doesn't
                      > > > place attention or
                      > > > attachment on any
                      > > > thought, imaginary
                      > > > vision or sound no
                      > > > matter how pleasant.
                      > > >
                      > > > Eventually, this will
                      > > > produce other by-
                      > > > products of awareness
                      > > > such as contentment.
                      > > >
                      > > > I have to say that one
                      > > > must discover their
                      > > > own reality. Don't take
                      > > > my word for anything.
                      > > > Divine Awareness is
                      > > > an individual experience
                      > > > and not a group path.
                      > > > I called it "Divine Awareness"
                      > > > in oder to give this
                      > > > private and personal
                      > > > Discovery by Soul a
                      > > > special designation.
                      > > > By referring to the
                      > > > uniqueness of the
                      > > > individual experience
                      > > > as 'Soul' does likewise.
                      > > >
                      > > > I will have to say that
                      > > > I've had help in validating
                      > > > that there is a Reality
                      > > > beyond the scientific
                      > > > explanations and that
                      > > > of religious dogma.
                      > > >
                      > > > I can only say that
                      > > > the Soulmate concept
                      > > > (IMO) is real in that
                      > > > it helps these Souls
                      > > > to form a special
                      > > > bond in order to merge
                      > > > and harmonize their
                      > > > vibrations and to better
                      > > > 'tune-in' to glimpses
                      > > > of, perhaps, our true
                      > > > origins and potential
                      > > > but also of this Here
                      > > > and Now.
                      > > >
                      > > > Prometheus
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > "Tyson" wrote:
                      > > > The sound current, bani,
                      > > > shabd or nam is real.
                      > > >
                      > > > There is no religion that
                      > > > can claim it as there own.
                      > > >
                      > > > What is fiction is the
                      > > > dependance on a master
                      > > > that is created by religions
                      > > > of the light and sound.
                      > > >
                      > > > Only one initiation is
                      > > > important.
                      > > >
                      > > > Yet faith in a past master
                      > > > such as Christ, Krishna
                      > > > or Guru Nanak is just as
                      > > > valid.
                      > > >
                      > > > There is no mahanta.
                      > > >
                      > > > The blue star is no
                      > > > other than a manifestation
                      > > > created by a meeting
                      > > > between the holy spirit
                      > > > and ones higher self
                      > > > (soul).
                      > > >
                      > > > For Harold to claim to
                      > > > be the blue star is a
                      > > > way to snare the gullible.
                      > > > He is no more the blue
                      > > > star than the second
                      > > > coming of christ.
                      > > >
                      > > > I had heard the rushing
                      > > > wind as a member of
                      > > > eckankar so I wrongly
                      > > > believed that this path
                      > > > must be true.
                      > > >
                      > > > It was meditation on
                      > > > the third eye that brought
                      > > > the rushing wind, not
                      > > > Klemp.
                      > > >
                      > > > Eckankar was taken from
                      > > > the Sihk word Ek Ong Kar.
                      > > > Ek Ong Kar means one
                      > > > divine energy permeates
                      > > > all things.
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Russ wrote:
                      > > > > I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is ex eckist, interviewing
                      > > > David Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.
                      > > >
                      > > > > One of the interviewees, a man made a statement, paraphrasing here, that in
                      > > > his mind it doesn't matter where the writings of eckankar come from because he
                      > > > is finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it's more important to have
                      > > a
                      > > > connection with the sound current.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I used to have that exact point of view. What changed for me?
                      > > > >
                      > > > > One thing I used to feel good about when talking about eck was this idea
                      > > that
                      > > > it has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was synonymous with the
                      > > sound
                      > > > current.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored for a decade, after
                      > > > becoming a 5th. I could no longer ignore this dissonance, caused by the
                      > > > plaigarism and ultimately this had led to me dropping out of eckankar.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I have a question concerning the sound current. I experience this sound,
                      > > > sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous to my study of eck.
                      > > Maybe
                      > > > it isn't important, where you read about it, if you take it as a principle and
                      > > > work with it.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Do you folks think the sound current is bogus? Delusions?
                      > > > >
                      > > > > This is an interesting point because I am interested in truth...
                      > > > >
                      > > > > BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion, good work. But this by
                      > > > itself doesn't go to the underlying issues concerning the question, "What is
                      > > the
                      > > > Truth regarding the idea of the sound current as a way of connection with the
                      > > > Divine??"
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Thanks,
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Russ
                      > >
                      >
                    • etznab@aol.com
                      I find it suspect whenever the female is downgraded in comparison with the male. In The Tiger s Fang (according to Lord Alakh Lok?): There is more to this law
                      Message 10 of 22 , Dec 10, 2012
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                        I find it suspect whenever the female is downgraded in comparison with
                        the male. In The Tiger's Fang (according to Lord Alakh Lok?):

                        "There is more to this law than just the issues which have been given
                        here. No Soul can enter into the worlds above the plane of Sat Lok
                        without being complete within itself - without having both completed
                        the cycle of balance and entering into the oneness with its other self,
                        and both gaining the traits of the other .... and in the end, as it is
                        said, becoming the male or original Soul as God first put on earth.
                        This Soul had the qualities which God wanted, but could not be
                        manifested unless Soul was split into two particular particles, the
                        negative and the positive, for both to develop." (pp. 85-86)

                        My comments:

                        As it is said? Lord Alakh Lok says "as it is said"?

                        I wonder, Did Paul Twitchell come up with this stuff from Radhasoami
                        doctrine? Quoting:

                        "The higher centres in a female form are less capable of being
                        developed than in a male form. All the centres of Pind, Brahmand and
                        Dayal Desh do exist in a woman as they do in man. But the centres
                        higher than Sunn or Daswan Dwar cannot ordinarily be awakened in a
                        woman. Hence, the highest point to which the spirit or Surat in a
                        female can rise, is the Daswan Dwar. For higher ascension, the same
                        Surat or spirit will have to take birth as a man, and perform the
                        spiritual exercises for awakening higher centres. [... .]"

                        http://www.rsfaith.org/images/stories/RSFBooks/English/Holy_Epistols_Part_5/holy_epistols_part_5_1.html

                        Both versions on the subject are highly suspect, IMO. I think people
                        probably butchered an older form of a story that subsequently took on
                        Frankenstein form.

                        I think there are two more sections about Soul Mates that I came across
                        recently, both from Dialogues With The Master, at least one version of
                        which appears to be from appropriated text.



                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...>
                        To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
                        <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Mon, Dec 10, 2012 4:26 pm
                        Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the
                        Sound Current?

                         
                        I agree. But I also think that most New Age thinking is absurd because
                        it is baseless and without evidence. The soul concept cannot be proven,
                        let alone the soulmate idea.

                        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer
                        <jepfeiffer@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I can't view the concept of a soulmate being two parts of a whole
                        no matter where it comes from.  I don't believe any of us are half of
                        a whole.  Maybe Paul needed that concept as a reason for why he fell
                        for Gail. 
                        >
                        > --- On Sat, 12/8/12, etznab18 <etznab@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > From: etznab18 <etznab@...>
                        > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the
                        Sound Current?
                        > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                        > Date: Saturday, December 8, 2012, 5:11 AM
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >  
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I don't believe Paul Twitchell reinvented the Soul Mates thing. It
                        looks to me more like he plagiarized, or paraphrased about it (adding
                        his own spin as well, under the guise of Eck Masters, etc.). But hey,
                        Eckankar is not a cult and it's against spiritual law to push one's
                        beliefs on another :) If you don't believe me just read the FAQ section
                        on Eckankar's web site. Look for the question: Is Eckankar a cult?
                        >
                        > ***
                        >
                        > There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book, Dialogues With The
                        Master (1970), called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.
                        >
                        > Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness (first published in
                        1913?) - and compare the text with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to
                        Paul Twitchell in Dialogues With The Master.
                        >
                        >
                        http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up
                        >
                        >
                        http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNomad.pdf
                        >
                        > ***
                        >
                        > Remember that controversial subject of Soul Mates which appeared
                        in Paul Twitche;ll's earlier books (I thought it was TTF, but here is
                        something in DWTM)?
                        >
                        > Ali Nomad:
                        >
                        > Each and every SOUL, therefore, has its spiritual counterpart--its
                        "other half," with which it unites on the spiritual plane, when the
                        time comes for attainment of immortality.
                        >
                        > Lord Sohang:
                        >
                        > "Each and every Soul, therefore, in the lower worlds has its
                        spiritual counterpart - its other half with which it unites on the
                        spiritual plane, when the time comes for the attainment of the highest
                        goal of the world of Brahm and that counterpart is the ECK Spirit."
                        (DWTM p. 176)
                        >
                        >
                        https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!searchin/alt.religion.eckankar/soul$20mates|sort:date/alt.religion.eckankar/9_e16rhw3gA/3VmvQQ811QsJ
                        >
                        > Now of course it depends on who Paul Twitchell is plagiarizing, as
                        the information can vary. It can even appear contradictory. Example:
                        >
                        > [...] But unless the union has already been made in heaven through
                        pure love, the physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness,
                        for like all true sacraments it must be entered into and registered
                        upon all planes. (p. 220)
                        > The Law of Divine Love will bring to each Soul its true marriage,
                        a union in perfect purity on all planes. This according to the one
                        life-theory is of course impossible for all; but since reincarnation is
                        a fact, the Soul, through repeated experiences, learns to follow its
                        Divine Guidance, hence will ultimately find its true mate. But they can
                        be spiritually as well as physically married to their mates only when
                        the old accounts of both have been balanced and the old complications
                        set up through the mistakes of the past have been worked out. [... .].
                        (p. 221)
                        >
                        > The Voice Of Isis And Realms Of The Living Dead, by Harriett
                        Augusta Curtiss
                        >
                        >
                        http://archive.org/stream/TheVoiceOfIsis2ndEdition/CurtissFhAndHaTheVoiceOfIsis2ndEdition_djvu.txt
                        >
                        > Rebazar Tarzs in DWTM:
                        >
                        > "Now for the part of union between man and woman. Unless this
                        union has been made on the higher planes through pure thought, the
                        physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness, for like all
                        true sacraments it must be entered into and registered upon all planes.
                        > "The law of divine love will bring to each Soul Its true marriage
                        and union in perfect purity on all planes. This true marriage is that
                        of Soul with the ECK - the polarization of each Soul - not two Souls or
                        man and woman coming together. And, as it is, each Soul will be guided
                        through repeated experience by divine guidance until It finds this true
                        love, the love of ECK through the Mahanta. You can be spiritually as
                        well as physically married to a mate only when the old accounts of both
                        have been balanced, and old complications set up through mistakes of
                        the past have been worked out. (p. 115)
                        >
                        > (My guess is that someone revised the original DWTM manuscript
                        since the ECK (all caps) trademark didn't come about until 1968 and the
                        Mahanta term didn't come into vogue until 1969; whereas the DWTM
                        manuscript was reportedly written in 1956!)
                        >
                        > Now I remember (I think it was in The Tiger's Fang, Or was it The
                        Eck-Vidya?) some Soul Mates controversy in Eckankar history where I
                        believe Harold Klemp and Eckankar had to "correct" what Paul Twitchell
                        earlier wrote. It was no longer about two people coming together, but a
                        person finding (in so many words) their own "higher self".
                        >
                        > I haven't finished checking all the references to Soul Mates in
                        all of Paul's books, so don't just go on what I quoted from DWTM.
                        >
                        > ***
                        >
                        > Btw, my Yahoo has been bouncing since Nov. 28 so I've been out of
                        the loop since then and hadn't received any posts via email. Just now
                        are catching up.
                        >
                        > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
                        "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Hello Non eckchains and All,
                        > > The Soulmate theory
                        > > phenomena is an interesting
                        > > spiritual perspective
                        > > and is, actually, unlimited
                        > > by conventional New Age
                        > > thought. Eckankar (PT)
                        > > reinvented it with a
                        > > Twin-Soul perspective.
                        > > This is interesting, but
                        > > IMO it shouldn't be limited
                        > > to or by PT's "Twin" Soul
                        > > view and a single pairing
                        > > only.
                        > >
                        > > Thus, the connection that
                        > > some/many Souls have with
                        > > one another (IMO) s/b referred
                        > > to in the plural. Thus, Soulmates
                        > > is more than one pairing.
                        > > Unfortunately, for Eckists,
                        > > Klemp has them locked into
                        > > a "Twin" concept when there
                        > > are Triplets and many more!
                        > > This phenomena can be
                        > > a special connection/attraction
                        > > with lifelong friends, as well,
                        > > and not always be with sexual
                        > > partners.
                        > >
                        > > As far as Klemp's fraud
                        > > and his "frownish and fakish"
                        > > H.I.'s, well, that's to be
                        > > expected when they emulate
                        > > HK's own behaviour via clues
                        > > with the way the EK hierarchy
                        > > is run or the way in which
                        > > he speaks/refers to Joan and/
                        > > or tells his stories.
                        > >
                        > > With Klemp there's a lack
                        > > of forgiveness, compassion,
                        > > and empathy. These are
                        > > missing from Klemp's own
                        > > perspectives in his own life
                        > > stories.
                        > >
                        > > It's easy for him to judge
                        > > others and point out flaws
                        > > or to add "insight" and to
                        > > do EK tweaks on the letters
                        > > sent to him. And, that's
                        > > what Klemp does when
                        > > he "writes" in his hermit
                        > > batty cave.
                        > >
                        > > Thus, many of HK's RESAs
                        > > emulate his lack of empathy,
                        > > compassion, and forgiveness.
                        > > They talk a lot about "love"
                        > > but when it comes to the
                        > > business/spiritual side of
                        > > Eckankar and the "Guidelines,"
                        > > as set forth by HK via the
                        > > ESC, there is not much room
                        > > leftover for the byproducts
                        > > of love.
                        > >
                        > > Look at the way the Higher
                        > > initiations are handed out.
                        > > There are always strings
                        > > attached and it has more
                        > > to do with "Outer" posturing
                        > > and faking it with physical
                        > > requirements. What is said
                        > > or isn't said to the RESA
                        > > or done as a volunteer,
                        > > than with anything else
                        > > or with one's visible goodness,
                        > > has more importance in
                        > > deciding who gets a pink
                        > > slip. It's not love for God.
                        > > Long-time Eckists who
                        > > are loyal and loving and
                        > > are very nice people are
                        > > excluded from becoming
                        > > H.I.s because they haven't
                        > > jumped through enough
                        > > physical hoops of training,
                        > > retraining, volunteering, etc.
                        > >
                        > > Or, maybe they didn't seem
                        > > like a 'take charge" leader
                        > > or have a college education
                        > > and/or were high profile
                        > > professionals. It's amazing
                        > > how petty RESAs can be,
                        > > and these people are the
                        > > "righthand" of Klemp.
                        > >
                        > > In truth, many people who
                        > > left Eckankar did so out of
                        > > frustration caused via neglect
                        > > and unloving behavior towards
                        > > them. Once you've become
                        > > a member their main goal
                        > > has been achieved. From
                        > > there they dangle the carrot
                        > > for the higher initiations
                        > > and, now, make it very
                        > > difficult to achieve the 7th.
                        > > Eckists need to become
                        > > ESAs to become RESAs
                        > > and unless you're already
                        > > an ESA it's, now, much
                        > > more difficult to achieve.
                        > > And, for a 6th ESA to get
                        > > the 7th they, usually, need
                        > > to become a RESA.
                        > >
                        > > Thus, Klemp slowed-down
                        > > Initiations in 1985 due to
                        > > Darwin making 500 new
                        > > 5ths before leaving office.
                        > > So, more that 25 years later
                        > > what is Klemp's excuse for
                        > > not making more H.I.s and
                        > > for not expanding the "outer"
                        > > initiations and their numbers?
                        > >
                        > > It's actually a simple/obvious
                        > > explanation. Klemp is selfish.
                        > >
                        > > Klemp's lack of empathy,
                        > > compassion, forgiveness and
                        > > real, true love for his fellow
                        > > eckists, and the trickle-down
                        > > effect within the EK Hierarchy,
                        > > is why Eckankar and ECKists
                        > > are broken and lost. Their
                        > > delusional faith and fellowship
                        > > (it's a numbers game) is
                        > > what they cling to as do
                        > > all religionists. Yet, as with
                        > > all religionists, their faith
                        > > has the only chosen ones
                        > > who have been gifted with
                        > > special insight into God
                        > > (or whatever name they use).
                        > > EK is simply more of the same
                        > > but tweaked to fit a special
                        > > New Age/Metaphysical mindset.
                        > > It's the Easy Way until those,
                        > > now, with less than 30 plus
                        > > years want a 6th or 7th
                        > > initiation.
                        > >
                        > > Prometheus
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > "Non" eckchains wrote:
                        > > I agree with a lot of what you have said here. I don't quite
                        get the Soulmate
                        > > though. I have been met with mostly great difficulty in
                        actualizing this, even
                        > > though it sounds quite nice. I am open to experiencing this,
                        yet I am also
                        > > naturally intuitive and also he who questions a lot and
                        enjoys experimenting and
                        > > investigating. Most people I meet are into holding tight to
                        their beliefs and
                        > > don't like being around someone like me, if I am just being
                        myself. For some
                        > > reason I ruffle feathers so maybe that means I need to stay
                        away from certain
                        > > Birds. :) I don't know the answer.
                        > >
                        > > As far as the sound current. My experience has been dreams of
                        beautiful music
                        > > sometimes, but also just feeling. Not everyone is musical.
                        The sound current and
                        > > light may actually be too limiting. It is based on our two
                        most used human
                        > > senses, seeing and hearing. There is so much more richness
                        involved. We are
                        > > lacking in our sense of smell and there are other senses that
                        other animals know
                        > > and experience that make us look like idiots sometimes.
                        Humans are very arrogant
                        > > because of our superior ability to manipulate our
                        environment, something that if
                        > > unchecked can and does cause great havoc, destruction and
                        killing just to kill.
                        > >
                        > > Feeling and intuition is very under rated. Feelings allow us
                        to have compassion
                        > > and empathy. That is a vibration I wish there was more of.
                        People don't like it,
                        > > because it also means that we may have to relate to the pain
                        of another, or to
                        > > our own pain. People are too hardened IMHO. At the same time,
                        bless the ones who
                        > > act out of compassion to advocate and fight those who are
                        indifferent to at
                        > > least living with some level of a little empathy. I think
                        they have compassion
                        > > in them, it is just repressed, and imo is always pushing to
                        express. I dare say,
                        > > that even klemp and his HI's are so frownish and fakish,
                        because that is how you
                        > > repress feelings and natural compassion. It is harder for
                        humans, because we are
                        > > more self-aware. Native American life often at least had
                        sacred rituals for
                        > > killing to eat. We are lost..... Light and sound meditations
                        may just be a
                        > > distraction and limiting us from our Whole Being. We cannot
                        cut off a part of
                        > > ourselves and Be our Whole Being, imo.
                        > >
                        > > Non ; )
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > <prometheus wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Hello Tyson, Russ, and All,
                        > > > I believe that religious myth
                        > > > was created to explain away
                        > > > the phenomenal, and that
                        > > > religion was created in order
                        > > > to control the masses and,
                        > > > thus, use this undertaking
                        > > > for money, power, greed,
                        > > > status and other self-benefits
                        > > > for the hierarchies.
                        > > >
                        > > > The Blue Light/Blue Star?
                        > > > The human mind/brain
                        > > > functions similarly and
                        > > > when attention is placed
                        > > > upon subjects this produces
                        > > > chemical and electrical
                        > > > reactions. There are even
                        > > > mixed but similar responses
                        > > > to unconscious stimuli.
                        > > > But many people realize
                        > > > all of this but tend to
                        > > > forget it when seeking
                        > > > "spiritual" answers.
                        > > >
                        > > > People should not have
                        > > > faith in the words of
                        > > > others. People should
                        > > > No Longer give others
                        > > > 'the benefit of the doubt.'
                        > > >
                        > > > Yes, we can look at what
                        > > > principles they are sharing
                        > > > in order to help us to
                        > > > achieve a greater realization
                        > > > but we should not limit
                        > > > ourselves from going
                        > > > beyond the realizations
                        > > > and achievements in
                        > > > higher consciousness
                        > > > of those we view as
                        > > > ideals/icons.
                        > > >
                        > > > Thus, the concept of
                        > > > "Master" needs to be
                        > > > revised and eliminated.
                        > > >
                        > > > When the lessons have
                        > > > been taught, via real
                        > > > world examples of
                        > > > living, it then becomes
                        > > > our responsibility
                        > > > to demonstrate what
                        > > > we have learned as
                        > > > it pertains to our
                        > > > own unique individual
                        > > > personality and
                        > > > circumstances. We
                        > > > move-on and into
                        > > > our own unrestricted
                        > > > conscious awareness.
                        > > >
                        > > > IMHO- Jesus, and not
                        > > > always his apostles,
                        > > > taught some really
                        > > > advanced concepts.
                        > > > Too advanced for
                        > > > most of us today!
                        > > >
                        > > > I'll never forget this
                        > > > one Fung Fu episode
                        > > > where Cain ran into
                        > > > some religious fanatics
                        > > > who would not defend
                        > > > themselves and would
                        > > > turn the other cheek.
                        > > > Cain showed them that
                        > > > there was a third response.
                        > > > Instead of becoming
                        > > > a victim of violence,
                        > > > or responding with
                        > > > violence Cain stopped/
                        > > > blocked the violence
                        > > > i.e. punch or object
                        > > > and redirected its
                        > > > intended path.
                        > > >
                        > > > Anyway, I've heard
                        > > > sounds when first
                        > > > starting to mediate
                        > > > via TM. Everyone
                        > > > heard these tones.
                        > > > Generally the mind
                        > > > blocks out these
                        > > > background noises
                        > > > until it quiets down
                        > > > and empties itself.
                        > > > Actually, one can
                        > > > follow these sounds
                        > > > without placing
                        > > > too much attention
                        > > > on them. That's the
                        > > > trick. One doesn't
                        > > > place attention or
                        > > > attachment on any
                        > > > thought, imaginary
                        > > > vision or sound no
                        > > > matter how pleasant.
                        > > >
                        > > > Eventually, this will
                        > > > produce other by-
                        > > > products of awareness
                        > > > such as contentment.
                        > > >
                        > > > I have to say that one
                        > > > must discover their
                        > > > own reality. Don't take
                        > > > my word for anything.
                        > > > Divine Awareness is
                        > > > an individual experience
                        > > > and not a group path.
                        > > > I called it "Divine Awareness"
                        > > > in oder to give this
                        > > > private and personal
                        > > > Discovery by Soul a
                        > > > special designation.
                        > > > By referring to the
                        > > > uniqueness of the
                        > > > individual experience
                        > > > as 'Soul' does likewise.
                        > > >
                        > > > I will have to say that
                        > > > I've had help in validating
                        > > > that there is a Reality
                        > > > beyond the scientific
                        > > > explanations and that
                        > > > of religious dogma.
                        > > >
                        > > > I can only say that
                        > > > the Soulmate concept
                        > > > (IMO) is real in that
                        > > > it helps these Souls
                        > > > to form a special
                        > > > bond in order to merge
                        > > > and harmonize their
                        > > > vibrations and to better
                        > > > 'tune-in' to glimpses
                        > > > of, perhaps, our true
                        > > > origins and potential
                        > > > but also of this Here
                        > > > and Now.
                        > > >
                        > > > Prometheus
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > "Tyson" wrote:
                        > > > The sound current, bani,
                        > > > shabd or nam is real.
                        > > >
                        > > > There is no religion that
                        > > > can claim it as there own.
                        > > >
                        > > > What is fiction is the
                        > > > dependance on a master
                        > > > that is created by religions
                        > > > of the light and sound.
                        > > >
                        > > > Only one initiation is
                        > > > important.
                        > > >
                        > > > Yet faith in a past master
                        > > > such as Christ, Krishna
                        > > > or Guru Nanak is just as
                        > > > valid.
                        > > >
                        > > > There is no mahanta.
                        > > >
                        > > > The blue star is no
                        > > > other than a manifestation
                        > > > created by a meeting
                        > > > between the holy spirit
                        > > > and ones higher self
                        > > > (soul).
                        > > >
                        > > > For Harold to claim to
                        > > > be the blue star is a
                        > > > way to snare the gullible.
                        > > > He is no more the blue
                        > > > star than the second
                        > > > coming of christ.
                        > > >
                        > > > I had heard the rushing
                        > > > wind as a member of
                        > > > eckankar so I wrongly
                        > > > believed that this path
                        > > > must be true.
                        > > >
                        > > > It was meditation on
                        > > > the third eye that brought
                        > > > the rushing wind, not
                        > > > Klemp.
                        > > >
                        > > > Eckankar was taken from
                        > > > the Sihk word Ek Ong Kar.
                        > > > Ek Ong Kar means one
                        > > > divine energy permeates
                        > > > all things.
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > Russ wrote:
                        > > > > I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is
                        ex eckist, interviewing
                        > > > David Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.
                        > > >
                        > > > > One of the interviewees, a man made a statement,
                        paraphrasing here, that in
                        > > > his mind it doesn't matter where the writings of
                        eckankar come from because he
                        > > > is finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it's
                        more important to have
                        > > a
                        > > > connection with the sound current.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I used to have that exact point of view. What
                        changed for me?
                        > > > >
                        > > > > One thing I used to feel good about when talking
                        about eck was this idea
                        > > that
                        > > > it has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was
                        synonymous with the
                        > > sound
                        > > > current.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored
                        for a decade, after
                        > > > becoming a 5th. I could no longer ignore this
                        dissonance, caused by the
                        > > > plaigarism and ultimately this had led to me dropping
                        out of eckankar.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I have a question concerning the sound current. I
                        experience this sound,
                        > > > sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous to
                        my study of eck.
                        > > Maybe
                        > > > it isn't important, where you read about it, if you take
                        it as a principle and
                        > > > work with it.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Do you folks think the sound current is bogus?
                        Delusions?
                        > > > >
                        > > > > This is an interesting point because I am
                        interested in truth...
                        > > > >
                        > > > > BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion,
                        good work. But this by
                        > > > itself doesn't go to the underlying issues concerning
                        the question, "What is
                        > > the
                        > > > Truth regarding the idea of the sound current as a way
                        of connection with the
                        > > > Divine??"
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Thanks,
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Russ
                        > >
                        >
                      • prometheus_973
                        Hello Etznab and All, Yes, it makes me suspicious of any religious dogma that degrades women. Just how spiritual and advanced can it really be? It s Not!
                        Message 11 of 22 , Dec 10, 2012
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hello Etznab and All,
                          Yes, it makes me suspicious
                          of any religious dogma that
                          degrades women. Just how
                          "spiritual" and advanced
                          can it really be? It's Not!

                          But, since the Boy's Clubs
                          of the World seem to run
                          things it's no wonder this
                          anti-female crap is written
                          in all religious dogma.

                          Sant Mat, which Twitchell
                          "borrowed from" was no
                          more advanced than all
                          other "spiritual" sources
                          that Twitchell used to
                          "Compile" his male chauvinist
                          dogma. Those male/female
                          atoms and positive/negative
                          batteries where the LEM
                          has to be a male because
                          women can't handle the
                          Rod of Power is pure fiction.
                          This is such a stupid ekplanation
                          that you have to be brain-
                          washed to believe it. BTW-
                          I wonder what the "Rod"
                          really symbolizes?

                          Anyway, this is one more
                          topic of PT's, and of Klemp's,
                          that doesn't get closer
                          scrutiny nor is it ever discussed
                          using logic, common sense,
                          or intellect. Actually, it's
                          never discussed because
                          there's no point right or
                          wrong, the case is closed!
                          Remember, HK has said,
                          "Eckankar is a hierarchy
                          and not a Democracy." But,
                          isn't our government both
                          a hierarchy and a democracy?

                          Since Klemp claims to be
                          imperfect and points out
                          that Twitchell exaggerated
                          shouldn't PT's Male requirement
                          for the LEM position be revisited,
                          investigated, and explained?

                          Are there any EKists who
                          are doctors, engineers or
                          scientists? I'd like them to
                          explain how the neg/pos
                          male/female battery thing
                          works with the physical body
                          and why one needs to be
                          a male in order to be the
                          LEM in the Lower Planes,
                          especially, here on earth!

                          Prometheus

                          etznab wrote:
                          I find it suspect whenever the female is downgraded in comparison with
                          the male. In The Tiger's Fang (according to Lord Alakh Lok?):

                          "There is more to this law than just the issues which have been given
                          here. No Soul can enter into the worlds above the plane of Sat Lok
                          without being complete within itself - without having both completed
                          the cycle of balance and entering into the oneness with its other self,
                          and both gaining the traits of the other .... and in the end, as it is
                          said, becoming the male or original Soul as God first put on earth.
                          This Soul had the qualities which God wanted, but could not be
                          manifested unless Soul was split into two particular particles, the
                          negative and the positive, for both to develop." (pp. 85-86)

                          My comments:

                          As it is said? Lord Alakh Lok says "as it is said"?

                          I wonder, Did Paul Twitchell come up with this stuff from Radhasoami
                          doctrine? Quoting:

                          "The higher centres in a female form are less capable of being
                          developed than in a male form. All the centres of Pind, Brahmand and
                          Dayal Desh do exist in a woman as they do in man. But the centres
                          higher than Sunn or Daswan Dwar cannot ordinarily be awakened in a
                          woman. Hence, the highest point to which the spirit or Surat in a
                          female can rise, is the Daswan Dwar. For higher ascension, the same
                          Surat or spirit will have to take birth as a man, and perform the
                          spiritual exercises for awakening higher centres. [... .]"

                          http://www.rsfaith.org/images/stories/RSFBooks/English/Holy_Epistols_Part_5/holy\
                          _epistols_part_5_1.html

                          Both versions on the subject are highly suspect, IMO. I think people
                          probably butchered an older form of a story that subsequently took on
                          Frankenstein form.

                          I think there are two more sections about Soul Mates that I came across
                          recently, both from Dialogues With The Master, at least one version of
                          which appears to be from appropriated text.



                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...>


                          I agree. But I also think that most New Age thinking is absurd because
                          it is baseless and without evidence. The soul concept cannot be proven,
                          let alone the soulmate idea.

                          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer
                          <jepfeiffer@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I can't view the concept of a soulmate being two parts of a whole
                          no matter where it comes from. I don't believe any of us are half of
                          a whole. Maybe Paul needed that concept as a reason for why he fell
                          for Gail.ÂÂ
                          >
                          etznab wrote:

                          >
                          > I don't believe Paul Twitchell reinvented the Soul Mates thing. It
                          looks to me more like he plagiarized, or paraphrased about it (adding
                          his own spin as well, under the guise of Eck Masters, etc.). But hey,
                          Eckankar is not a cult and it's against spiritual law to push one's
                          beliefs on another :) If you don't believe me just read the FAQ section
                          on Eckankar's web site. Look for the question: Is Eckankar a cult?
                          >
                          > ***
                          >
                          > There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book, Dialogues With The
                          Master (1970), called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.
                          >
                          > Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness (first published in
                          1913?) - and compare the text with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to
                          Paul Twitchell in Dialogues With The Master.
                          >
                          >
                          http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up
                          >
                          >
                          http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNo\
                          mad.pdf
                          >
                          > ***
                          >
                          > Remember that controversial subject of Soul Mates which appeared
                          in Paul Twitche;ll's earlier books (I thought it was TTF, but here is
                          something in DWTM)?
                          >
                          > Ali Nomad:
                          >
                          > Each and every SOUL, therefore, has its spiritual counterpart--its
                          "other half," with which it unites on the spiritual plane, when the
                          time comes for attainment of immortality.
                          >
                          > Lord Sohang:
                          >
                          > "Each and every Soul, therefore, in the lower worlds has its
                          spiritual counterpart - its other half with which it unites on the
                          spiritual plane, when the time comes for the attainment of the highest
                          goal of the world of Brahm and that counterpart is the ECK Spirit."
                          (DWTM p. 176)
                          >
                          >
                          https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!searchin/alt.religion.eck\
                          ankar/soul$20mates|sort:date/alt.religion.eckankar/9_e16rhw3gA/3VmvQQ811QsJ
                          >
                          > Now of course it depends on who Paul Twitchell is plagiarizing, as
                          the information can vary. It can even appear contradictory. Example:
                          >
                          > [...] But unless the union has already been made in heaven through
                          pure love, the physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness,
                          for like all true sacraments it must be entered into and registered
                          upon all planes. (p. 220)

                          > The Law of Divine Love will bring to each Soul its true marriage,
                          a union in perfect purity on all planes. This according to the one
                          life-theory is of course impossible for all; but since reincarnation is
                          a fact, the Soul, through repeated experiences, learns to follow its
                          Divine Guidance, hence will ultimately find its true mate. But they can
                          be spiritually as well as physically married to their mates only when
                          the old accounts of both have been balanced and the old complications
                          set up through the mistakes of the past have been worked out. [... .].
                          (p. 221)
                          >
                          > The Voice Of Isis And Realms Of The Living Dead, by Harriett
                          Augusta Curtiss
                          >
                          >
                          http://archive.org/stream/TheVoiceOfIsis2ndEdition/CurtissFhAndHaTheVoiceOfIsis2\
                          ndEdition_djvu.txt
                          >
                          > Rebazar Tarzs in DWTM:
                          >
                          > "Now for the part of union between man and woman. Unless this
                          union has been made on the higher planes through pure thought, the
                          physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness, for like all
                          true sacraments it must be entered into and registered upon all planes.
                          > "The law of divine love will bring to each Soul Its true marriage
                          and union in perfect purity on all planes. This true marriage is that
                          of Soul with the ECK - the polarization of each Soul - not two Souls or
                          man and woman coming together. And, as it is, each Soul will be guided
                          through repeated experience by divine guidance until It finds this true
                          love, the love of ECK through the Mahanta. You can be spiritually as
                          well as physically married to a mate only when the old accounts of both
                          have been balanced, and old complications set up through mistakes of
                          the past have been worked out. (p. 115)
                          >
                          > (My guess is that someone revised the original DWTM manuscript
                          since the ECK (all caps) trademark didn't come about until 1968 and the
                          Mahanta term didn't come into vogue until 1969; whereas the DWTM
                          manuscript was reportedly written in 1956!)
                          >
                          > Now I remember (I think it was in The Tiger's Fang, Or was it The
                          Eck-Vidya?) some Soul Mates controversy in Eckankar history where I
                          believe Harold Klemp and Eckankar had to "correct" what Paul Twitchell
                          earlier wrote. It was no longer about two people coming together, but a
                          person finding (in so many words) their own "higher self".
                          >
                          > I haven't finished checking all the references to Soul Mates in
                          all of Paul's books, so don't just go on what I quoted from DWTM.
                          >
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