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Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the Sound Current?

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  • Non
    Janice, I just have to say, that in person I am very shy and soft spoken, it s just that what I say may be disagreeable as it is often to the point, even if I
    Message 1 of 22 , Dec 5, 2012
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      Janice, I just have to say, that in person I am very shy and soft spoken, it's just that what I say may be disagreeable as it is often to the point, even if I try to express it gently. A friend of mine once sent me a card that said "It is better to be hated for who you are than loved for who you are not." My writing style is different than how I speak. I actually speak slowly and often have problems with people who talk fast. Actually, my main problem might be that in person I am afraid to simply be who I am. I am very sensitive to most people I meet, to a fault and spend more time listening, when I should probably be more spontaneous and even abrasive.

      I think you are only seeing one side of me, as I express myself more directly in some of these blogs, and yes I hold in some anger that is more easily expressed in writing. I still have a problem with wanting to trust the cons too much, and yes getting taken. There seems to be more people than I remember who are callous and mean these days. Maybe hard times do that to people. I'm actually too nice in person, but it is based on both a sense of compassion as well as some guilt about my right to just be who I am. Sometimes it is OK to be just plain rude imo and not nice all the time, especially if someone is trying to push their arrogant, dogmatic spirituality/religion onto you.

      Non ;)

      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer <jepfeiffer@...> wrote:
      >
      > I too agree with Prometheus.  He and I have formed a lot of the same concepts it seems.  As far as the soul mate thing, Non, I don't think it is something you can make.  You are just fortunate when you meet some one that feels like an echo from the past.  You just know that you know them and you know so much about each other with out knowing how you know when you first meet.  My soul mate is gone now but we had something right from the start that couldn't be explained in words.  We could speak in half sentences and have perfect understanding.  He knew my thoughts and could feel my feelings.  He knew what I liked with out being told.  We could enjoy silence and not need to talk.  There was just something very real between us that didn't come from the present and didn't make logical sense in the physical world.  I do hope that at some point, you know what I am saying.  It is a very precious thing to have.  Maybe everyone doesn't have it in
      > every life time.  It is true that you do express yourself sometimes in a some what abrasive manner but you also show a lot of insight at times and I have seen a lot of compassion in what you say also at times.  In your search, it would help if maybe you weren't quite so blunt with those you don't know well.  Wouldn't it be terrible if you chased a way the very one who does know you but because of a sharp initial few words, doesn't have a chance to take a good look and see that?  My experience when meeting people face to face is if there is a strong pull or a strong repulsion, it most likely does mean, you've known them before.  Sometimes it helps to just stand still and let the other person show you who they are.  About holding on to beliefs; I find religious people need to do that whereas spiritual people tend to change theirs as they evolve with more understanding.  That's what caused most of us to get into eckankar and what caused most of us
      > to get out.  I use to feel angry about the lies but now I even feel a little gratitude for eckanar.  I never was one to accept things at face value and I usually wasn't fooled easily but I certainly was by eckankar.  It was a real experience.  It changed my life.  Not in the way, they intended maybe but I am now stronger, even more independent and I now know for the rest of my life, I can never be a part of any organized religious group again.  I think part of the reason I got into eckankar is I thought I needed to find those who were like me and I hoped that was it.  It wasn't but I thought I needed it to be.  Now I know I don't need that.  That's what it taught me.  Through it, I learned something of value about myself so it was a worthwhile experience.  Good luck with your search.  I hope you find just what you want.  Oh, don't forget to stand still; don't rush it and don't push it away.  Sound current and senses is another story for me
      > so I won't comment now.  Again, all the best to you now and always. 
      > --- On Tue, 12/4/12, Non <eckchains@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > From: Non <eckchains@...>
      > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the Sound Current?
      > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Tuesday, December 4, 2012, 9:28 AM
      >
      >
      >
      >  
      >
      >
      >
      > I agree with a lot of what you have said here. I don't quite get the Soulmate though. I have been met with mostly great difficulty in actualizing this, even though it sounds quite nice. I am open to experiencing this, yet I am also naturally intuitive and also he who questions a lot and enjoys experimenting and investigating. Most people I meet are into holding tight to their beliefs and don't like being around someone like me, if I am just being myself. For some reason I ruffle feathers so maybe that means I need to stay away from certain Birds. :) I don't know the answer.
      >
      > As far as the sound current. My experience has been dreams of beautiful music sometimes, but also just feeling. Not everyone is musical. The sound current and light may actually be too limiting. It is based on our two most used human senses, seeing and hearing. There is so much more richness involved. We are lacking in our sense of smell and there are other senses that other animals know and experience that make us look like idiots sometimes. Humans are very arrogant because of our superior ability to manipulate our environment, something that if unchecked can and does cause great havoc, destruction and killing just to kill.
      >
      > Feeling and intuition is very under rated. Feelings allow us to have compassion and empathy. That is a vibration I wish there was more of. People don't like it, because it also means that we may have to relate to the pain of another, or to our own pain. People are too hardened IMHO. At the same time, bless the ones who act out of compassion to advocate and fight those who are indifferent to at least living with some level of a little empathy. I think they have compassion in them, it is just repressed, and imo is always pushing to express. I dare say, that even klemp and his HI's are so frownish and fakish, because that is how you repress feelings and natural compassion. It is harder for humans, because we are more self-aware. Native American life often at least had sacred rituals for killing to eat. We are lost..... Light and sound meditations may just be a distraction and limiting us from our Whole Being. We cannot cut off a part of ourselves and Be our
      > Whole Being, imo.
      >
      > Non ; )
      >
      > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Hello Tyson, Russ, and All,
      > > I believe that religious myth
      > > was created to explain away
      > > the phenomenal, and that
      > > religion was created in order
      > > to control the masses and,
      > > thus, use this undertaking
      > > for money, power, greed,
      > > status and other self-benefits
      > > for the hierarchies.
      > >
      > > The Blue Light/Blue Star?
      > > The human mind/brain
      > > functions similarly and
      > > when attention is placed
      > > upon subjects this produces
      > > chemical and electrical
      > > reactions. There are even
      > > mixed but similar responses
      > > to unconscious stimuli.
      > > But many people realize
      > > all of this but tend to
      > > forget it when seeking
      > > "spiritual" answers.
      > >
      > > People should not have
      > > faith in the words of
      > > others. People should
      > > No Longer give others
      > > 'the benefit of the doubt.'
      > >
      > > Yes, we can look at what
      > > principles they are sharing
      > > in order to help us to
      > > achieve a greater realization
      > > but we should not limit
      > > ourselves from going
      > > beyond the realizations
      > > and achievements in
      > > higher consciousness
      > > of those we view as
      > > ideals/icons.
      > >
      > > Thus, the concept of
      > > "Master" needs to be
      > > revised and eliminated.
      > >
      > > When the lessons have
      > > been taught, via real
      > > world examples of
      > > living, it then becomes
      > > our responsibility
      > > to demonstrate what
      > > we have learned as
      > > it pertains to our
      > > own unique individual
      > > personality and
      > > circumstances. We
      > > move-on and into
      > > our own unrestricted
      > > conscious awareness.
      > >
      > > IMHO- Jesus, and not
      > > always his apostles,
      > > taught some really
      > > advanced concepts.
      > > Too advanced for
      > > most of us today!
      > >
      > > I'll never forget this
      > > one Fung Fu episode
      > > where Cain ran into
      > > some religious fanatics
      > > who would not defend
      > > themselves and would
      > > turn the other cheek.
      > > Cain showed them that
      > > there was a third response.
      > > Instead of becoming
      > > a victim of violence,
      > > or responding with
      > > violence Cain stopped/
      > > blocked the violence
      > > i.e. punch or object
      > > and redirected its
      > > intended path.
      > >
      > > Anyway, I've heard
      > > sounds when first
      > > starting to mediate
      > > via TM. Everyone
      > > heard these tones.
      > > Generally the mind
      > > blocks out these
      > > background noises
      > > until it quiets down
      > > and empties itself.
      > > Actually, one can
      > > follow these sounds
      > > without placing
      > > too much attention
      > > on them. That's the
      > > trick. One doesn't
      > > place attention or
      > > attachment on any
      > > thought, imaginary
      > > vision or sound no
      > > matter how pleasant.
      > >
      > > Eventually, this will
      > > produce other by-
      > > products of awareness
      > > such as contentment.
      > >
      > > I have to say that one
      > > must discover their
      > > own reality. Don't take
      > > my word for anything.
      > > Divine Awareness is
      > > an individual experience
      > > and not a group path.
      > > I called it "Divine Awareness"
      > > in oder to give this
      > > private and personal
      > > Discovery by Soul a
      > > special designation.
      > > By referring to the
      > > uniqueness of the
      > > individual experience
      > > as 'Soul' does likewise.
      > >
      > > I will have to say that
      > > I've had help in validating
      > > that there is a Reality
      > > beyond the scientific
      > > explanations and that
      > > of religious dogma.
      > >
      > > I can only say that
      > > the Soulmate concept
      > > (IMO) is real in that
      > > it helps these Souls
      > > to form a special
      > > bond in order to merge
      > > and harmonize their
      > > vibrations and to better
      > > 'tune-in' to glimpses
      > > of, perhaps, our true
      > > origins and potential
      > > but also of this Here
      > > and Now.
      > >
      > > Prometheus
      > >
      > >
      > > "Tyson" wrote:
      > > The sound current, bani,
      > > shabd or nam is real.
      > >
      > > There is no religion that
      > > can claim it as there own.
      > >
      > > What is fiction is the
      > > dependance on a master
      > > that is created by religions
      > > of the light and sound.
      > >
      > > Only one initiation is
      > > important.
      > >
      > > Yet faith in a past master
      > > such as Christ, Krishna
      > > or Guru Nanak is just as
      > > valid.
      > >
      > > There is no mahanta.
      > >
      > > The blue star is no
      > > other than a manifestation
      > > created by a meeting
      > > between the holy spirit
      > > and ones higher self
      > > (soul).
      > >
      > > For Harold to claim to
      > > be the blue star is a
      > > way to snare the gullible.
      > > He is no more the blue
      > > star than the second
      > > coming of christ.
      > >
      > > I had heard the rushing
      > > wind as a member of
      > > eckankar so I wrongly
      > > believed that this path
      > > must be true.
      > >
      > > It was meditation on
      > > the third eye that brought
      > > the rushing wind, not
      > > Klemp.
      > >
      > > Eckankar was taken from
      > > the Sihk word Ek Ong Kar.
      > > Ek Ong Kar means one
      > > divine energy permeates
      > > all things.
      > >
      > >
      > > Russ wrote:
      > > > I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is ex eckist, interviewing
      > > David Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.
      > >
      > > > One of the interviewees, a man made a statement, paraphrasing here, that in
      > > his mind it doesn't matter where the writings of eckankar come from because he
      > > is finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it's more important to have a
      > > connection with the sound current.
      > > >
      > > > I used to have that exact point of view. What changed for me?
      > > >
      > > > One thing I used to feel good about when talking about eck was this idea that
      > > it has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was synonymous with the sound
      > > current.
      > > >
      > > > It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored for a decade, after
      > > becoming a 5th. I could no longer ignore this dissonance, caused by the
      > > plaigarism and ultimately this had led to me dropping out of eckankar.
      > > >
      > > > I have a question concerning the sound current. I experience this sound,
      > > sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous to my study of eck. Maybe
      > > it isn't important, where you read about it, if you take it as a principle and
      > > work with it.
      > > >
      > > > Do you folks think the sound current is bogus? Delusions?
      > > >
      > > > This is an interesting point because I am interested in truth...
      > > >
      > > > BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion, good work. But this by
      > > itself doesn't go to the underlying issues concerning the question, "What is the
      > > Truth regarding the idea of the sound current as a way of connection with the
      > > Divine??"
      > > >
      > > > Thanks,
      > > >
      > > > Russ
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • prometheus_973
      Hello All, Here s more info on Soulmates, but from a Jewish perspective. As you can see all one needs to do is some tweaking, as PT did with Sant Mat, and
      Message 2 of 22 , Dec 6, 2012
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        Hello All,
        Here's more info on Soulmates,
        but from a Jewish perspective.
        As you can see all one needs
        to do is some tweaking, as
        PT did with Sant Mat, and voilà!

        However, this is the half +
        half = whole (Soul) perspective.

        Then, again, there's a
        mention of reincarnation
        and the one soul coming
        back to help the other
        soul complete their mission,
        although, the other soul
        has difficulty (is punished,
        via karma?) in finding this
        returning soulmate.

        It seems that the Soulmate
        concept is used by some
        religions and is overlooked
        by others. But the fact that
        religions even address it,
        much less define it with
        such limitations, tends
        to invalidate it for many
        people, and validates it,
        in some way, for others.


        "Kabbalah teaches that a soul's heavenly source has male and female halves.

        There is no doubt that the "compatible helper" [paraphrasing Gen. 2:18] that G-d has intended for a man may assist him in his task. Yet, there is much more to it than that. A single person is unable to complete the rectification that he is to perform in this world. A soul's heavenly source has male and female halves, which are incarnated into the world as a man and a woman. The incarnation of the two does not necessarily occur simultaneously. As a result, only when the man and woman are righteous do they attain the privilege to meet and wed their real soulmate.

        By means of three steps of the marriage ceremony, the three main levels of a man's soul…become bound to those of his wife….

        Until marriage, however, a man continues to be a half soul. By means of three steps of the marriage ceremony, the three main levels of a man's soul, the Nefesh, the Ruach and the Neshama, become bound to those of his wife, and they both become one being, with one joint spiritual structure.

        Consequently, each spouse may only reach spiritual fulfillment and perfection by means of their union, when their lives are conducted with purity.

        Even when the man and woman who get married are not real soulmates - which is often the case in our time - they have to accomplish together a rectification that was assigned to them in Heaven. Sometimes, per divine decree, a person is unable to find a compatible mate. It is nevertheless the unmarried person's duty to keep trying to find a spouse, for one may only reach one's spiritual potential through marriage, and a decree may change at any time that the person achieves whatever rectification is personally required before he can find a mate.

        His soulmate is allowed to incarnate with him…in order to help him….

        When a man comes into this world without a heavy debt to rectify, he may meet his soulmate and marry her without much effort. The Ari cites the case of a man who sins and has to reincarnate, whereas his soulmate has completed her task in this world and has no further need of incarnation. (Shaar HaGilgulim, 20) In special cases, his soulmate is allowed to incarnate with him, and she will came back to this world with him in order to help him. When the time comes for him to get married, however, he will not find her effortlessly as in the first case, but after an intense search and struggle. Since he reincarnated because of a sin he committed, the Accusers on high speak against him; they want him to be prevented from meeting her, on the grounds that he does not deserve it. So they spread animosity between the couple and they later quarrel. That is why it is written that making couples is as difficult as splitting the Red Sea!

        [Translated by Simcha Benyosef]"



        prometheus_wrote:
        >
        > Hello Non eckchains and All,
        > The Soulmate theory
        > phenomena is an interesting
        > spiritual perspective
        > and is, actually, unlimited
        > by conventional New Age
        > thought. Eckankar (PT)
        > reinvented it with a
        > Twin-Soul perspective.
        > This is interesting, but
        > IMO it shouldn't be limited
        > to or by PT's "Twin" Soul
        > view and a single pairing
        > only.
        >
        > Thus, the connection that
        > some/many Souls have with
        > one another (IMO) s/b referred
        > to in the plural. Thus, Soulmates
        > is more than one pairing.
        > Unfortunately, for Eckists,
        > Klemp has them locked into
        > a "Twin" concept when there
        > are Triplets and many more!
        > This phenomena can be
        > a special connection/attraction
        > with lifelong friends, as well,
        > and not always be with sexual
        > partners.
        >
        > As far as Klemp's fraud
        > and his "frownish and fakish"
        > H.I.'s, well, that's to be
        > expected when they emulate
        > HK's own behaviour via clues
        > with the way the EK hierarchy
        > is run or the way in which
        > he speaks/refers to Joan and/
        > or tells his stories.
        >
        > With Klemp there's a lack
        > of forgiveness, compassion,
        > and empathy. These are
        > missing from Klemp's own
        > perspectives in his own life
        > stories.
        >
        > It's easy for HK to judge
        > others and point out flaws
        > or to add "insight" and to
        > do EK tweaks on the letters
        > sent to him. And, that's
        > what Klemp does when
        > he "writes" in his hermit
        > batty cave.
        >
        > Thus, many of HK's RESAs
        > emulate his lack of empathy,
        > compassion, and forgiveness.
        > They talk a lot about "love"
        > but when it comes to the
        > business/spiritual side of
        > Eckankar and the "Guidelines,"
        > as set forth by HK via the
        > ESC, there is not much room
        > leftover for the byproducts
        > of love.
        >
        > Look at the way the Higher
        > initiations are handed out.
        > There are always strings
        > attached and it has more
        > to do with "Outer" posturing
        > and faking it with physical
        > requirements. What is said,
        > or isn't said, to the RESA
        > or done as a volunteer,
        > has more weight than
        > anything else, like one's
        > visible goodness. The
        > superficial has more
        > importance in deciding
        > who gets a pink slip than
        > demonstrating a love for
        > God.
        >
        > Long-time Eckists who
        > are loyal and loving and
        > are very nice people are
        > excluded from becoming
        > H.I.s because they haven't
        > jumped through enough
        > physical hoops of training,
        > retraining, volunteering, etc.
        > Or, maybe they didn't seem
        > like a 'take charge" leader
        > or have a college education
        > and/or were high profile
        > professionals.
        >
        > It's amazing how petty
        > RESAs can be, and these
        > people are the "righthand"
        > of Klemp.
        >
        > In truth, many people who
        > left Eckankar did so out of
        > frustration caused via neglect
        > and unloving behavior towards
        > them.
        >
        > Once you've become an EK
        > member Klemp's main goal
        > has been achieved. From
        > there HK dangles the carrot
        > for the higher initiations
        > and, now, makes it very
        > difficult to achieve the 7th.
        > Eckists need to become
        > ESAs to become RESAs
        > and unless you're already
        > an ESA it's, now, much
        > more difficult to achieve.
        > And, for a 6th ESA to get
        > the 7th they, usually, need
        > to become a RESA.
        >
        > Thus, Klemp slowed-down
        > Initiations in 1985 due to
        > Darwin making 500 new
        > 5ths before leaving office.
        > So, more that 25 years later
        > what is Klemp's excuse for
        > not making more H.I.s and
        > for not expanding the "outer"
        > initiations and their numbers?
        >
        > It's actually a simple/obvious
        > explanation. Klemp is selfish.
        >
        > Klemp's lack of empathy,
        > compassion, forgiveness and
        > real, true love for his fellow
        > eckists, and the trickle-down
        > effect within the EK Hierarchy,
        > is why Eckankar and ECKists
        > are broken and lost. Their
        > delusional faith and fellowship
        > (it's a numbers game) is
        > what they cling to as do
        > all religionists. Yet, as with
        > all religionists, their faith
        > has the only chosen ones
        > who have been gifted with
        > special insight into God
        > (or whatever name they use).
        > EK is simply more of the same
        > but tweaked to fit a special
        > New Age/Metaphysical mindset.
        > It's the Easy Way until those,
        > now, with less than 30 plus
        > years want a 6th or 7th
        > initiation.
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
        >
        > "Non" eckchains wrote:
        > I agree with a lot of what you have said here. I don't quite get the Soulmate
        > though. I have been met with mostly great difficulty in actualizing this, even
        > though it sounds quite nice. I am open to experiencing this, yet I am also
        > naturally intuitive and also he who questions a lot and enjoys experimenting and
        > investigating. Most people I meet are into holding tight to their beliefs and
        > don't like being around someone like me, if I am just being myself. For some
        > reason I ruffle feathers so maybe that means I need to stay away from certain
        > Birds. :) I don't know the answer.
        >
        > As far as the sound current. My experience has been dreams of beautiful music
        > sometimes, but also just feeling. Not everyone is musical. The sound current and
        > light may actually be too limiting. It is based on our two most used human
        > senses, seeing and hearing. There is so much more richness involved. We are
        > lacking in our sense of smell and there are other senses that other animals know
        > and experience that make us look like idiots sometimes. Humans are very arrogant
        > because of our superior ability to manipulate our environment, something that if
        > unchecked can and does cause great havoc, destruction and killing just to kill.
        >
        > Feeling and intuition is very under rated. Feelings allow us to have compassion
        > and empathy. That is a vibration I wish there was more of. People don't like it,
        > because it also means that we may have to relate to the pain of another, or to
        > our own pain. People are too hardened IMHO. At the same time, bless the ones who
        > act out of compassion to advocate and fight those who are indifferent to at
        > least living with some level of a little empathy. I think they have compassion
        > in them, it is just repressed, and imo is always pushing to express. I dare say,
        > that even klemp and his HI's are so frownish and fakish, because that is how you
        > repress feelings and natural compassion. It is harder for humans, because we are
        > more self-aware. Native American life often at least had sacred rituals for
        > killing to eat. We are lost..... Light and sound meditations may just be a
        > distraction and limiting us from our Whole Being. We cannot cut off a part of
        > ourselves and Be our Whole Being, imo.
        >
        > Non ; )
        >
        >
        > <prometheus wrote:
        > >
        > > Hello Tyson, Russ, and All,
        > > I believe that religious myth
        > > was created to explain away
        > > the phenomenal, and that
        > > religion was created in order
        > > to control the masses and,
        > > thus, use this undertaking
        > > for money, power, greed,
        > > status and other self-benefits
        > > for the hierarchies.
        > >
        > > The Blue Light/Blue Star?
        > > The human mind/brain
        > > functions similarly and
        > > when attention is placed
        > > upon subjects this produces
        > > chemical and electrical
        > > reactions. There are even
        > > mixed but similar responses
        > > to unconscious stimuli.
        > > But many people realize
        > > all of this but tend to
        > > forget it when seeking
        > > "spiritual" answers.
        > >
        > > People should not have
        > > faith in the words of
        > > others. People should
        > > No Longer give others
        > > 'the benefit of the doubt.'
        > >
        > > Yes, we can look at what
        > > principles they are sharing
        > > in order to help us to
        > > achieve a greater realization
        > > but we should not limit
        > > ourselves from going
        > > beyond the realizations
        > > and achievements in
        > > higher consciousness
        > > of those we view as
        > > ideals/icons.
        > >
        > > Thus, the concept of
        > > "Master" needs to be
        > > revised and eliminated.
        > >
        > > When the lessons have
        > > been taught, via real
        > > world examples of
        > > living, it then becomes
        > > our responsibility
        > > to demonstrate what
        > > we have learned as
        > > it pertains to our
        > > own unique individual
        > > personality and
        > > circumstances. We
        > > move-on and into
        > > our own unrestricted
        > > conscious awareness.
        > >
        > > IMHO- Jesus, and not
        > > always his apostles,
        > > taught some really
        > > advanced concepts.
        > > Too advanced for
        > > most of us today!
        > >
        > > I'll never forget this
        > > one Fung Fu episode
        > > where Cain ran into
        > > some religious fanatics
        > > who would not defend
        > > themselves and would
        > > turn the other cheek.
        > > Cain showed them that
        > > there was a third response.
        > > Instead of becoming
        > > a victim of violence,
        > > or responding with
        > > violence Cain stopped/
        > > blocked the violence
        > > i.e. punch or object
        > > and redirected its
        > > intended path.
        > >
        > > Anyway, I've heard
        > > sounds when first
        > > starting to mediate
        > > via TM. Everyone
        > > heard these tones.
        > > Generally the mind
        > > blocks out these
        > > background noises
        > > until it quiets down
        > > and empties itself.
        > > Actually, one can
        > > follow these sounds
        > > without placing
        > > too much attention
        > > on them. That's the
        > > trick. One doesn't
        > > place attention or
        > > attachment on any
        > > thought, imaginary
        > > vision or sound no
        > > matter how pleasant.
        > >
        > > Eventually, this will
        > > produce other by-
        > > products of awareness
        > > such as contentment.
        > >
        > > I have to say that one
        > > must discover their
        > > own reality. Don't take
        > > my word for anything.
        > > Divine Awareness is
        > > an individual experience
        > > and not a group path.
        > > I called it "Divine Awareness"
        > > in oder to give this
        > > private and personal
        > > Discovery by Soul a
        > > special designation.
        > > By referring to the
        > > uniqueness of the
        > > individual experience
        > > as 'Soul' does likewise.
        > >
        > > I will have to say that
        > > I've had help in validating
        > > that there is a Reality
        > > beyond the scientific
        > > explanations and that
        > > of religious dogma.
        > >
        > > I can only say that
        > > the Soulmate concept
        > > (IMO) is real in that
        > > it helps these Souls
        > > to form a special
        > > bond in order to merge
        > > and harmonize their
        > > vibrations and to better
        > > 'tune-in' to glimpses
        > > of, perhaps, our true
        > > origins and potential
        > > but also of this Here
        > > and Now.
        > >
        > > Prometheus
        > >
        > >
        > > "Tyson" wrote:
        > > The sound current, bani,
        > > shabd or nam is real.
        > >
        > > There is no religion that
        > > can claim it as there own.
        > >
        > > What is fiction is the
        > > dependance on a master
        > > that is created by religions
        > > of the light and sound.
        > >
        > > Only one initiation is
        > > important.
        > >
        > > Yet faith in a past master
        > > such as Christ, Krishna
        > > or Guru Nanak is just as
        > > valid.
        > >
        > > There is no mahanta.
        > >
        > > The blue star is no
        > > other than a manifestation
        > > created by a meeting
        > > between the holy spirit
        > > and ones higher self
        > > (soul).
        > >
        > > For Harold to claim to
        > > be the blue star is a
        > > way to snare the gullible.
        > > He is no more the blue
        > > star than the second
        > > coming of christ.
        > >
        > > I had heard the rushing
        > > wind as a member of
        > > eckankar so I wrongly
        > > believed that this path
        > > must be true.
        > >
        > > It was meditation on
        > > the third eye that brought
        > > the rushing wind, not
        > > Klemp.
        > >
        > > Eckankar was taken from
        > > the Sihk word Ek Ong Kar.
        > > Ek Ong Kar means one
        > > divine energy permeates
        > > all things.
        > >
        > >
        > > Russ wrote:
        > > > I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is ex eckist, interviewing
        > > David Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.
        > >
        > > > One of the interviewees, a man made a statement, paraphrasing here, that in
        > > his mind it doesn't matter where the writings of eckankar come from because he
        > > is finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it's more important to have
        > a
        > > connection with the sound current.
        > > >
        > > > I used to have that exact point of view. What changed for me?
        > > >
        > > > One thing I used to feel good about when talking about eck was this idea
        > that
        > > it has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was synonymous with the
        > sound
        > > current.
        > > >
        > > > It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored for a decade, after
        > > becoming a 5th. I could no longer ignore this dissonance, caused by the
        > > plaigarism and ultimately this had led to me dropping out of eckankar.
        > > >
        > > > I have a question concerning the sound current. I experience this sound,
        > > sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous to my study of eck.
        > Maybe
        > > it isn't important, where you read about it, if you take it as a principle and
        > > work with it.
        > > >
        > > > Do you folks think the sound current is bogus? Delusions?
        > > >
        > > > This is an interesting point because I am interested in truth...
        > > >
        > > > BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion, good work. But this by
        > > itself doesn't go to the underlying issues concerning the question, "What is
        > the
        > > Truth regarding the idea of the sound current as a way of connection with the
        > > Divine??"
        > > >
        > > > Thanks,
        > > >
        > > > Russ
        >
      • etznab18
        I don t believe Paul Twitchell reinvented the Soul Mates thing. It looks to me more like he plagiarized, or paraphrased about it (adding his own spin as well,
        Message 3 of 22 , Dec 7, 2012
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          I don't believe Paul Twitchell reinvented the Soul Mates thing. It looks to me more like he plagiarized, or paraphrased about it (adding his own spin as well, under the guise of Eck Masters, etc.). But hey, Eckankar is not a cult and it's against spiritual law to push one's beliefs on another :) If you don't believe me just read the FAQ section on Eckankar's web site. Look for the question: Is Eckankar a cult?

          ***

          There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book, Dialogues With The Master (1970), called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.

          Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness (first published in 1913?) - and compare the text with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to Paul Twitchell in Dialogues With The Master.

          http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up

          http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNomad.pdf

          ***

          Remember that controversial subject of Soul Mates which appeared in Paul Twitche;ll's earlier books (I thought it was TTF, but here is something in DWTM)?

          Ali Nomad:

          Each and every SOUL, therefore, has its spiritual counterpart--its "other half," with which it unites on the spiritual plane, when the time comes for attainment of immortality.

          Lord Sohang:

          "Each and every Soul, therefore, in the lower worlds has its spiritual counterpart - its other half with which it unites on the spiritual plane, when the time comes for the attainment of the highest goal of the world of Brahm and that counterpart is the ECK Spirit." (DWTM p. 176)

          https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!searchin/alt.religion.eckankar/soul$20mates|sort:date/alt.religion.eckankar/9_e16rhw3gA/3VmvQQ811QsJ

          Now of course it depends on who Paul Twitchell is plagiarizing, as the information can vary. It can even appear contradictory. Example:

          [...] But unless the union has already been made in heaven through pure love, the physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness, for like all true sacraments it must be entered into and registered upon all planes. (p. 220)
          The Law of Divine Love will bring to each Soul its true marriage, a union in perfect purity on all planes. This according to the one life-theory is of course impossible for all; but since reincarnation is a fact, the Soul, through repeated experiences, learns to follow its Divine Guidance, hence will ultimately find its true mate. But they can be spiritually as well as physically married to their mates only when the old accounts of both have been balanced and the old complications set up through the mistakes of the past have been worked out. [... .]. (p. 221)

          The Voice Of Isis And Realms Of The Living Dead, by Harriett Augusta Curtiss

          http://archive.org/stream/TheVoiceOfIsis2ndEdition/CurtissFhAndHaTheVoiceOfIsis2ndEdition_djvu.txt

          Rebazar Tarzs in DWTM:

          "Now for the part of union between man and woman. Unless this union has been made on the higher planes through pure thought, the physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness, for like all true sacraments it must be entered into and registered upon all planes.
          "The law of divine love will bring to each Soul Its true marriage and union in perfect purity on all planes. This true marriage is that of Soul with the ECK - the polarization of each Soul - not two Souls or man and woman coming together. And, as it is, each Soul will be guided through repeated experience by divine guidance until It finds this true love, the love of ECK through the Mahanta. You can be spiritually as well as physically married to a mate only when the old accounts of both have been balanced, and old complications set up through mistakes of the past have been worked out. (p. 115)

          (My guess is that someone revised the original DWTM manuscript since the ECK (all caps) trademark didn't come about until 1968 and the Mahanta term didn't come into vogue until 1969; whereas the DWTM manuscript was reportedly written in 1956!)

          Now I remember (I think it was in The Tiger's Fang, Or was it The Eck-Vidya?) some Soul Mates controversy in Eckankar history where I believe Harold Klemp and Eckankar had to "correct" what Paul Twitchell earlier wrote. It was no longer about two people coming together, but a person finding (in so many words) their own "higher self".

          I haven't finished checking all the references to Soul Mates in all of Paul's books, so don't just go on what I quoted from DWTM.

          ***

          Btw, my Yahoo has been bouncing since Nov. 28 so I've been out of the loop since then and hadn't received any posts via email. Just now are catching up.

          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello Non eckchains and All,
          > The Soulmate theory
          > phenomena is an interesting
          > spiritual perspective
          > and is, actually, unlimited
          > by conventional New Age
          > thought. Eckankar (PT)
          > reinvented it with a
          > Twin-Soul perspective.
          > This is interesting, but
          > IMO it shouldn't be limited
          > to or by PT's "Twin" Soul
          > view and a single pairing
          > only.
          >
          > Thus, the connection that
          > some/many Souls have with
          > one another (IMO) s/b referred
          > to in the plural. Thus, Soulmates
          > is more than one pairing.
          > Unfortunately, for Eckists,
          > Klemp has them locked into
          > a "Twin" concept when there
          > are Triplets and many more!
          > This phenomena can be
          > a special connection/attraction
          > with lifelong friends, as well,
          > and not always be with sexual
          > partners.
          >
          > As far as Klemp's fraud
          > and his "frownish and fakish"
          > H.I.'s, well, that's to be
          > expected when they emulate
          > HK's own behaviour via clues
          > with the way the EK hierarchy
          > is run or the way in which
          > he speaks/refers to Joan and/
          > or tells his stories.
          >
          > With Klemp there's a lack
          > of forgiveness, compassion,
          > and empathy. These are
          > missing from Klemp's own
          > perspectives in his own life
          > stories.
          >
          > It's easy for him to judge
          > others and point out flaws
          > or to add "insight" and to
          > do EK tweaks on the letters
          > sent to him. And, that's
          > what Klemp does when
          > he "writes" in his hermit
          > batty cave.
          >
          > Thus, many of HK's RESAs
          > emulate his lack of empathy,
          > compassion, and forgiveness.
          > They talk a lot about "love"
          > but when it comes to the
          > business/spiritual side of
          > Eckankar and the "Guidelines,"
          > as set forth by HK via the
          > ESC, there is not much room
          > leftover for the byproducts
          > of love.
          >
          > Look at the way the Higher
          > initiations are handed out.
          > There are always strings
          > attached and it has more
          > to do with "Outer" posturing
          > and faking it with physical
          > requirements. What is said
          > or isn't said to the RESA
          > or done as a volunteer,
          > than with anything else
          > or with one's visible goodness,
          > has more importance in
          > deciding who gets a pink
          > slip. It's not love for God.
          > Long-time Eckists who
          > are loyal and loving and
          > are very nice people are
          > excluded from becoming
          > H.I.s because they haven't
          > jumped through enough
          > physical hoops of training,
          > retraining, volunteering, etc.
          >
          > Or, maybe they didn't seem
          > like a 'take charge" leader
          > or have a college education
          > and/or were high profile
          > professionals. It's amazing
          > how petty RESAs can be,
          > and these people are the
          > "righthand" of Klemp.
          >
          > In truth, many people who
          > left Eckankar did so out of
          > frustration caused via neglect
          > and unloving behavior towards
          > them. Once you've become
          > a member their main goal
          > has been achieved. From
          > there they dangle the carrot
          > for the higher initiations
          > and, now, make it very
          > difficult to achieve the 7th.
          > Eckists need to become
          > ESAs to become RESAs
          > and unless you're already
          > an ESA it's, now, much
          > more difficult to achieve.
          > And, for a 6th ESA to get
          > the 7th they, usually, need
          > to become a RESA.
          >
          > Thus, Klemp slowed-down
          > Initiations in 1985 due to
          > Darwin making 500 new
          > 5ths before leaving office.
          > So, more that 25 years later
          > what is Klemp's excuse for
          > not making more H.I.s and
          > for not expanding the "outer"
          > initiations and their numbers?
          >
          > It's actually a simple/obvious
          > explanation. Klemp is selfish.
          >
          > Klemp's lack of empathy,
          > compassion, forgiveness and
          > real, true love for his fellow
          > eckists, and the trickle-down
          > effect within the EK Hierarchy,
          > is why Eckankar and ECKists
          > are broken and lost. Their
          > delusional faith and fellowship
          > (it's a numbers game) is
          > what they cling to as do
          > all religionists. Yet, as with
          > all religionists, their faith
          > has the only chosen ones
          > who have been gifted with
          > special insight into God
          > (or whatever name they use).
          > EK is simply more of the same
          > but tweaked to fit a special
          > New Age/Metaphysical mindset.
          > It's the Easy Way until those,
          > now, with less than 30 plus
          > years want a 6th or 7th
          > initiation.
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
          >
          > "Non" eckchains wrote:
          > I agree with a lot of what you have said here. I don't quite get the Soulmate
          > though. I have been met with mostly great difficulty in actualizing this, even
          > though it sounds quite nice. I am open to experiencing this, yet I am also
          > naturally intuitive and also he who questions a lot and enjoys experimenting and
          > investigating. Most people I meet are into holding tight to their beliefs and
          > don't like being around someone like me, if I am just being myself. For some
          > reason I ruffle feathers so maybe that means I need to stay away from certain
          > Birds. :) I don't know the answer.
          >
          > As far as the sound current. My experience has been dreams of beautiful music
          > sometimes, but also just feeling. Not everyone is musical. The sound current and
          > light may actually be too limiting. It is based on our two most used human
          > senses, seeing and hearing. There is so much more richness involved. We are
          > lacking in our sense of smell and there are other senses that other animals know
          > and experience that make us look like idiots sometimes. Humans are very arrogant
          > because of our superior ability to manipulate our environment, something that if
          > unchecked can and does cause great havoc, destruction and killing just to kill.
          >
          > Feeling and intuition is very under rated. Feelings allow us to have compassion
          > and empathy. That is a vibration I wish there was more of. People don't like it,
          > because it also means that we may have to relate to the pain of another, or to
          > our own pain. People are too hardened IMHO. At the same time, bless the ones who
          > act out of compassion to advocate and fight those who are indifferent to at
          > least living with some level of a little empathy. I think they have compassion
          > in them, it is just repressed, and imo is always pushing to express. I dare say,
          > that even klemp and his HI's are so frownish and fakish, because that is how you
          > repress feelings and natural compassion. It is harder for humans, because we are
          > more self-aware. Native American life often at least had sacred rituals for
          > killing to eat. We are lost..... Light and sound meditations may just be a
          > distraction and limiting us from our Whole Being. We cannot cut off a part of
          > ourselves and Be our Whole Being, imo.
          >
          > Non ; )
          >
          >
          > <prometheus wrote:
          > >
          > > Hello Tyson, Russ, and All,
          > > I believe that religious myth
          > > was created to explain away
          > > the phenomenal, and that
          > > religion was created in order
          > > to control the masses and,
          > > thus, use this undertaking
          > > for money, power, greed,
          > > status and other self-benefits
          > > for the hierarchies.
          > >
          > > The Blue Light/Blue Star?
          > > The human mind/brain
          > > functions similarly and
          > > when attention is placed
          > > upon subjects this produces
          > > chemical and electrical
          > > reactions. There are even
          > > mixed but similar responses
          > > to unconscious stimuli.
          > > But many people realize
          > > all of this but tend to
          > > forget it when seeking
          > > "spiritual" answers.
          > >
          > > People should not have
          > > faith in the words of
          > > others. People should
          > > No Longer give others
          > > 'the benefit of the doubt.'
          > >
          > > Yes, we can look at what
          > > principles they are sharing
          > > in order to help us to
          > > achieve a greater realization
          > > but we should not limit
          > > ourselves from going
          > > beyond the realizations
          > > and achievements in
          > > higher consciousness
          > > of those we view as
          > > ideals/icons.
          > >
          > > Thus, the concept of
          > > "Master" needs to be
          > > revised and eliminated.
          > >
          > > When the lessons have
          > > been taught, via real
          > > world examples of
          > > living, it then becomes
          > > our responsibility
          > > to demonstrate what
          > > we have learned as
          > > it pertains to our
          > > own unique individual
          > > personality and
          > > circumstances. We
          > > move-on and into
          > > our own unrestricted
          > > conscious awareness.
          > >
          > > IMHO- Jesus, and not
          > > always his apostles,
          > > taught some really
          > > advanced concepts.
          > > Too advanced for
          > > most of us today!
          > >
          > > I'll never forget this
          > > one Fung Fu episode
          > > where Cain ran into
          > > some religious fanatics
          > > who would not defend
          > > themselves and would
          > > turn the other cheek.
          > > Cain showed them that
          > > there was a third response.
          > > Instead of becoming
          > > a victim of violence,
          > > or responding with
          > > violence Cain stopped/
          > > blocked the violence
          > > i.e. punch or object
          > > and redirected its
          > > intended path.
          > >
          > > Anyway, I've heard
          > > sounds when first
          > > starting to mediate
          > > via TM. Everyone
          > > heard these tones.
          > > Generally the mind
          > > blocks out these
          > > background noises
          > > until it quiets down
          > > and empties itself.
          > > Actually, one can
          > > follow these sounds
          > > without placing
          > > too much attention
          > > on them. That's the
          > > trick. One doesn't
          > > place attention or
          > > attachment on any
          > > thought, imaginary
          > > vision or sound no
          > > matter how pleasant.
          > >
          > > Eventually, this will
          > > produce other by-
          > > products of awareness
          > > such as contentment.
          > >
          > > I have to say that one
          > > must discover their
          > > own reality. Don't take
          > > my word for anything.
          > > Divine Awareness is
          > > an individual experience
          > > and not a group path.
          > > I called it "Divine Awareness"
          > > in oder to give this
          > > private and personal
          > > Discovery by Soul a
          > > special designation.
          > > By referring to the
          > > uniqueness of the
          > > individual experience
          > > as 'Soul' does likewise.
          > >
          > > I will have to say that
          > > I've had help in validating
          > > that there is a Reality
          > > beyond the scientific
          > > explanations and that
          > > of religious dogma.
          > >
          > > I can only say that
          > > the Soulmate concept
          > > (IMO) is real in that
          > > it helps these Souls
          > > to form a special
          > > bond in order to merge
          > > and harmonize their
          > > vibrations and to better
          > > 'tune-in' to glimpses
          > > of, perhaps, our true
          > > origins and potential
          > > but also of this Here
          > > and Now.
          > >
          > > Prometheus
          > >
          > >
          > > "Tyson" wrote:
          > > The sound current, bani,
          > > shabd or nam is real.
          > >
          > > There is no religion that
          > > can claim it as there own.
          > >
          > > What is fiction is the
          > > dependance on a master
          > > that is created by religions
          > > of the light and sound.
          > >
          > > Only one initiation is
          > > important.
          > >
          > > Yet faith in a past master
          > > such as Christ, Krishna
          > > or Guru Nanak is just as
          > > valid.
          > >
          > > There is no mahanta.
          > >
          > > The blue star is no
          > > other than a manifestation
          > > created by a meeting
          > > between the holy spirit
          > > and ones higher self
          > > (soul).
          > >
          > > For Harold to claim to
          > > be the blue star is a
          > > way to snare the gullible.
          > > He is no more the blue
          > > star than the second
          > > coming of christ.
          > >
          > > I had heard the rushing
          > > wind as a member of
          > > eckankar so I wrongly
          > > believed that this path
          > > must be true.
          > >
          > > It was meditation on
          > > the third eye that brought
          > > the rushing wind, not
          > > Klemp.
          > >
          > > Eckankar was taken from
          > > the Sihk word Ek Ong Kar.
          > > Ek Ong Kar means one
          > > divine energy permeates
          > > all things.
          > >
          > >
          > > Russ wrote:
          > > > I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is ex eckist, interviewing
          > > David Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.
          > >
          > > > One of the interviewees, a man made a statement, paraphrasing here, that in
          > > his mind it doesn't matter where the writings of eckankar come from because he
          > > is finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it's more important to have
          > a
          > > connection with the sound current.
          > > >
          > > > I used to have that exact point of view. What changed for me?
          > > >
          > > > One thing I used to feel good about when talking about eck was this idea
          > that
          > > it has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was synonymous with the
          > sound
          > > current.
          > > >
          > > > It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored for a decade, after
          > > becoming a 5th. I could no longer ignore this dissonance, caused by the
          > > plaigarism and ultimately this had led to me dropping out of eckankar.
          > > >
          > > > I have a question concerning the sound current. I experience this sound,
          > > sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous to my study of eck.
          > Maybe
          > > it isn't important, where you read about it, if you take it as a principle and
          > > work with it.
          > > >
          > > > Do you folks think the sound current is bogus? Delusions?
          > > >
          > > > This is an interesting point because I am interested in truth...
          > > >
          > > > BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion, good work. But this by
          > > itself doesn't go to the underlying issues concerning the question, "What is
          > the
          > > Truth regarding the idea of the sound current as a way of connection with the
          > > Divine??"
          > > >
          > > > Thanks,
          > > >
          > > > Russ
          >
        • etznab18
          I think people just make this stuff up according to what they read and imagine. IMO this instance of the Jewish version traces back to the Torah (or Old
          Message 4 of 22 , Dec 7, 2012
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            I think people just make this stuff up according to what they read and imagine. IMO this instance of the Jewish version traces back to the Torah (or Old Testament) calling woman a "help meet" for man. Nothing more. And of course the Bible most likely plagiarized and manipulated earlier teachings and texts way back when. Nothing new here.

            http://biblesuite.com/hebrew/5828.htm

            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hello All,
            > Here's more info on Soulmates,
            > but from a Jewish perspective.
            > As you can see all one needs
            > to do is some tweaking, as
            > PT did with Sant Mat, and voilà!
            >
            > However, this is the half +
            > half = whole (Soul) perspective.
            >
            > Then, again, there's a
            > mention of reincarnation
            > and the one soul coming
            > back to help the other
            > soul complete their mission,
            > although, the other soul
            > has difficulty (is punished,
            > via karma?) in finding this
            > returning soulmate.
            >
            > It seems that the Soulmate
            > concept is used by some
            > religions and is overlooked
            > by others. But the fact that
            > religions even address it,
            > much less define it with
            > such limitations, tends
            > to invalidate it for many
            > people, and validates it,
            > in some way, for others.
            >
            >
            > "Kabbalah teaches that a soul's heavenly source has male and female halves.
            >
            > There is no doubt that the "compatible helper" [paraphrasing Gen. 2:18] that G-d has intended for a man may assist him in his task. Yet, there is much more to it than that. A single person is unable to complete the rectification that he is to perform in this world. A soul's heavenly source has male and female halves, which are incarnated into the world as a man and a woman. The incarnation of the two does not necessarily occur simultaneously. As a result, only when the man and woman are righteous do they attain the privilege to meet and wed their real soulmate.
            >
            > By means of three steps of the marriage ceremony, the three main levels of a man's soul…become bound to those of his wife….
            >
            > Until marriage, however, a man continues to be a half soul. By means of three steps of the marriage ceremony, the three main levels of a man's soul, the Nefesh, the Ruach and the Neshama, become bound to those of his wife, and they both become one being, with one joint spiritual structure.
            >
            > Consequently, each spouse may only reach spiritual fulfillment and perfection by means of their union, when their lives are conducted with purity.
            >
            > Even when the man and woman who get married are not real soulmates - which is often the case in our time - they have to accomplish together a rectification that was assigned to them in Heaven. Sometimes, per divine decree, a person is unable to find a compatible mate. It is nevertheless the unmarried person's duty to keep trying to find a spouse, for one may only reach one's spiritual potential through marriage, and a decree may change at any time that the person achieves whatever rectification is personally required before he can find a mate.
            >
            > His soulmate is allowed to incarnate with him…in order to help him….
            >
            > When a man comes into this world without a heavy debt to rectify, he may meet his soulmate and marry her without much effort. The Ari cites the case of a man who sins and has to reincarnate, whereas his soulmate has completed her task in this world and has no further need of incarnation. (Shaar HaGilgulim, 20) In special cases, his soulmate is allowed to incarnate with him, and she will came back to this world with him in order to help him. When the time comes for him to get married, however, he will not find her effortlessly as in the first case, but after an intense search and struggle. Since he reincarnated because of a sin he committed, the Accusers on high speak against him; they want him to be prevented from meeting her, on the grounds that he does not deserve it. So they spread animosity between the couple and they later quarrel. That is why it is written that making couples is as difficult as splitting the Red Sea!
            >
            > [Translated by Simcha Benyosef]"
            >
            >
            >
            > prometheus_wrote:
            > >
            > > Hello Non eckchains and All,
            > > The Soulmate theory
            > > phenomena is an interesting
            > > spiritual perspective
            > > and is, actually, unlimited
            > > by conventional New Age
            > > thought. Eckankar (PT)
            > > reinvented it with a
            > > Twin-Soul perspective.
            > > This is interesting, but
            > > IMO it shouldn't be limited
            > > to or by PT's "Twin" Soul
            > > view and a single pairing
            > > only.
            > >
            > > Thus, the connection that
            > > some/many Souls have with
            > > one another (IMO) s/b referred
            > > to in the plural. Thus, Soulmates
            > > is more than one pairing.
            > > Unfortunately, for Eckists,
            > > Klemp has them locked into
            > > a "Twin" concept when there
            > > are Triplets and many more!
            > > This phenomena can be
            > > a special connection/attraction
            > > with lifelong friends, as well,
            > > and not always be with sexual
            > > partners.
            > >
            > > As far as Klemp's fraud
            > > and his "frownish and fakish"
            > > H.I.'s, well, that's to be
            > > expected when they emulate
            > > HK's own behaviour via clues
            > > with the way the EK hierarchy
            > > is run or the way in which
            > > he speaks/refers to Joan and/
            > > or tells his stories.
            > >
            > > With Klemp there's a lack
            > > of forgiveness, compassion,
            > > and empathy. These are
            > > missing from Klemp's own
            > > perspectives in his own life
            > > stories.
            > >
            > > It's easy for HK to judge
            > > others and point out flaws
            > > or to add "insight" and to
            > > do EK tweaks on the letters
            > > sent to him. And, that's
            > > what Klemp does when
            > > he "writes" in his hermit
            > > batty cave.
            > >
            > > Thus, many of HK's RESAs
            > > emulate his lack of empathy,
            > > compassion, and forgiveness.
            > > They talk a lot about "love"
            > > but when it comes to the
            > > business/spiritual side of
            > > Eckankar and the "Guidelines,"
            > > as set forth by HK via the
            > > ESC, there is not much room
            > > leftover for the byproducts
            > > of love.
            > >
            > > Look at the way the Higher
            > > initiations are handed out.
            > > There are always strings
            > > attached and it has more
            > > to do with "Outer" posturing
            > > and faking it with physical
            > > requirements. What is said,
            > > or isn't said, to the RESA
            > > or done as a volunteer,
            > > has more weight than
            > > anything else, like one's
            > > visible goodness. The
            > > superficial has more
            > > importance in deciding
            > > who gets a pink slip than
            > > demonstrating a love for
            > > God.
            > >
            > > Long-time Eckists who
            > > are loyal and loving and
            > > are very nice people are
            > > excluded from becoming
            > > H.I.s because they haven't
            > > jumped through enough
            > > physical hoops of training,
            > > retraining, volunteering, etc.
            > > Or, maybe they didn't seem
            > > like a 'take charge" leader
            > > or have a college education
            > > and/or were high profile
            > > professionals.
            > >
            > > It's amazing how petty
            > > RESAs can be, and these
            > > people are the "righthand"
            > > of Klemp.
            > >
            > > In truth, many people who
            > > left Eckankar did so out of
            > > frustration caused via neglect
            > > and unloving behavior towards
            > > them.
            > >
            > > Once you've become an EK
            > > member Klemp's main goal
            > > has been achieved. From
            > > there HK dangles the carrot
            > > for the higher initiations
            > > and, now, makes it very
            > > difficult to achieve the 7th.
            > > Eckists need to become
            > > ESAs to become RESAs
            > > and unless you're already
            > > an ESA it's, now, much
            > > more difficult to achieve.
            > > And, for a 6th ESA to get
            > > the 7th they, usually, need
            > > to become a RESA.
            > >
            > > Thus, Klemp slowed-down
            > > Initiations in 1985 due to
            > > Darwin making 500 new
            > > 5ths before leaving office.
            > > So, more that 25 years later
            > > what is Klemp's excuse for
            > > not making more H.I.s and
            > > for not expanding the "outer"
            > > initiations and their numbers?
            > >
            > > It's actually a simple/obvious
            > > explanation. Klemp is selfish.
            > >
            > > Klemp's lack of empathy,
            > > compassion, forgiveness and
            > > real, true love for his fellow
            > > eckists, and the trickle-down
            > > effect within the EK Hierarchy,
            > > is why Eckankar and ECKists
            > > are broken and lost. Their
            > > delusional faith and fellowship
            > > (it's a numbers game) is
            > > what they cling to as do
            > > all religionists. Yet, as with
            > > all religionists, their faith
            > > has the only chosen ones
            > > who have been gifted with
            > > special insight into God
            > > (or whatever name they use).
            > > EK is simply more of the same
            > > but tweaked to fit a special
            > > New Age/Metaphysical mindset.
            > > It's the Easy Way until those,
            > > now, with less than 30 plus
            > > years want a 6th or 7th
            > > initiation.
            > >
            > > Prometheus
            > >
            > >
            > > "Non" eckchains wrote:
            > > I agree with a lot of what you have said here. I don't quite get the Soulmate
            > > though. I have been met with mostly great difficulty in actualizing this, even
            > > though it sounds quite nice. I am open to experiencing this, yet I am also
            > > naturally intuitive and also he who questions a lot and enjoys experimenting and
            > > investigating. Most people I meet are into holding tight to their beliefs and
            > > don't like being around someone like me, if I am just being myself. For some
            > > reason I ruffle feathers so maybe that means I need to stay away from certain
            > > Birds. :) I don't know the answer.
            > >
            > > As far as the sound current. My experience has been dreams of beautiful music
            > > sometimes, but also just feeling. Not everyone is musical. The sound current and
            > > light may actually be too limiting. It is based on our two most used human
            > > senses, seeing and hearing. There is so much more richness involved. We are
            > > lacking in our sense of smell and there are other senses that other animals know
            > > and experience that make us look like idiots sometimes. Humans are very arrogant
            > > because of our superior ability to manipulate our environment, something that if
            > > unchecked can and does cause great havoc, destruction and killing just to kill.
            > >
            > > Feeling and intuition is very under rated. Feelings allow us to have compassion
            > > and empathy. That is a vibration I wish there was more of. People don't like it,
            > > because it also means that we may have to relate to the pain of another, or to
            > > our own pain. People are too hardened IMHO. At the same time, bless the ones who
            > > act out of compassion to advocate and fight those who are indifferent to at
            > > least living with some level of a little empathy. I think they have compassion
            > > in them, it is just repressed, and imo is always pushing to express. I dare say,
            > > that even klemp and his HI's are so frownish and fakish, because that is how you
            > > repress feelings and natural compassion. It is harder for humans, because we are
            > > more self-aware. Native American life often at least had sacred rituals for
            > > killing to eat. We are lost..... Light and sound meditations may just be a
            > > distraction and limiting us from our Whole Being. We cannot cut off a part of
            > > ourselves and Be our Whole Being, imo.
            > >
            > > Non ; )
            > >
            > >
            > > <prometheus wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Hello Tyson, Russ, and All,
            > > > I believe that religious myth
            > > > was created to explain away
            > > > the phenomenal, and that
            > > > religion was created in order
            > > > to control the masses and,
            > > > thus, use this undertaking
            > > > for money, power, greed,
            > > > status and other self-benefits
            > > > for the hierarchies.
            > > >
            > > > The Blue Light/Blue Star?
            > > > The human mind/brain
            > > > functions similarly and
            > > > when attention is placed
            > > > upon subjects this produces
            > > > chemical and electrical
            > > > reactions. There are even
            > > > mixed but similar responses
            > > > to unconscious stimuli.
            > > > But many people realize
            > > > all of this but tend to
            > > > forget it when seeking
            > > > "spiritual" answers.
            > > >
            > > > People should not have
            > > > faith in the words of
            > > > others. People should
            > > > No Longer give others
            > > > 'the benefit of the doubt.'
            > > >
            > > > Yes, we can look at what
            > > > principles they are sharing
            > > > in order to help us to
            > > > achieve a greater realization
            > > > but we should not limit
            > > > ourselves from going
            > > > beyond the realizations
            > > > and achievements in
            > > > higher consciousness
            > > > of those we view as
            > > > ideals/icons.
            > > >
            > > > Thus, the concept of
            > > > "Master" needs to be
            > > > revised and eliminated.
            > > >
            > > > When the lessons have
            > > > been taught, via real
            > > > world examples of
            > > > living, it then becomes
            > > > our responsibility
            > > > to demonstrate what
            > > > we have learned as
            > > > it pertains to our
            > > > own unique individual
            > > > personality and
            > > > circumstances. We
            > > > move-on and into
            > > > our own unrestricted
            > > > conscious awareness.
            > > >
            > > > IMHO- Jesus, and not
            > > > always his apostles,
            > > > taught some really
            > > > advanced concepts.
            > > > Too advanced for
            > > > most of us today!
            > > >
            > > > I'll never forget this
            > > > one Fung Fu episode
            > > > where Cain ran into
            > > > some religious fanatics
            > > > who would not defend
            > > > themselves and would
            > > > turn the other cheek.
            > > > Cain showed them that
            > > > there was a third response.
            > > > Instead of becoming
            > > > a victim of violence,
            > > > or responding with
            > > > violence Cain stopped/
            > > > blocked the violence
            > > > i.e. punch or object
            > > > and redirected its
            > > > intended path.
            > > >
            > > > Anyway, I've heard
            > > > sounds when first
            > > > starting to mediate
            > > > via TM. Everyone
            > > > heard these tones.
            > > > Generally the mind
            > > > blocks out these
            > > > background noises
            > > > until it quiets down
            > > > and empties itself.
            > > > Actually, one can
            > > > follow these sounds
            > > > without placing
            > > > too much attention
            > > > on them. That's the
            > > > trick. One doesn't
            > > > place attention or
            > > > attachment on any
            > > > thought, imaginary
            > > > vision or sound no
            > > > matter how pleasant.
            > > >
            > > > Eventually, this will
            > > > produce other by-
            > > > products of awareness
            > > > such as contentment.
            > > >
            > > > I have to say that one
            > > > must discover their
            > > > own reality. Don't take
            > > > my word for anything.
            > > > Divine Awareness is
            > > > an individual experience
            > > > and not a group path.
            > > > I called it "Divine Awareness"
            > > > in oder to give this
            > > > private and personal
            > > > Discovery by Soul a
            > > > special designation.
            > > > By referring to the
            > > > uniqueness of the
            > > > individual experience
            > > > as 'Soul' does likewise.
            > > >
            > > > I will have to say that
            > > > I've had help in validating
            > > > that there is a Reality
            > > > beyond the scientific
            > > > explanations and that
            > > > of religious dogma.
            > > >
            > > > I can only say that
            > > > the Soulmate concept
            > > > (IMO) is real in that
            > > > it helps these Souls
            > > > to form a special
            > > > bond in order to merge
            > > > and harmonize their
            > > > vibrations and to better
            > > > 'tune-in' to glimpses
            > > > of, perhaps, our true
            > > > origins and potential
            > > > but also of this Here
            > > > and Now.
            > > >
            > > > Prometheus
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > "Tyson" wrote:
            > > > The sound current, bani,
            > > > shabd or nam is real.
            > > >
            > > > There is no religion that
            > > > can claim it as there own.
            > > >
            > > > What is fiction is the
            > > > dependance on a master
            > > > that is created by religions
            > > > of the light and sound.
            > > >
            > > > Only one initiation is
            > > > important.
            > > >
            > > > Yet faith in a past master
            > > > such as Christ, Krishna
            > > > or Guru Nanak is just as
            > > > valid.
            > > >
            > > > There is no mahanta.
            > > >
            > > > The blue star is no
            > > > other than a manifestation
            > > > created by a meeting
            > > > between the holy spirit
            > > > and ones higher self
            > > > (soul).
            > > >
            > > > For Harold to claim to
            > > > be the blue star is a
            > > > way to snare the gullible.
            > > > He is no more the blue
            > > > star than the second
            > > > coming of christ.
            > > >
            > > > I had heard the rushing
            > > > wind as a member of
            > > > eckankar so I wrongly
            > > > believed that this path
            > > > must be true.
            > > >
            > > > It was meditation on
            > > > the third eye that brought
            > > > the rushing wind, not
            > > > Klemp.
            > > >
            > > > Eckankar was taken from
            > > > the Sihk word Ek Ong Kar.
            > > > Ek Ong Kar means one
            > > > divine energy permeates
            > > > all things.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Russ wrote:
            > > > > I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is ex eckist, interviewing
            > > > David Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.
            > > >
            > > > > One of the interviewees, a man made a statement, paraphrasing here, that in
            > > > his mind it doesn't matter where the writings of eckankar come from because he
            > > > is finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it's more important to have
            > > a
            > > > connection with the sound current.
            > > > >
            > > > > I used to have that exact point of view. What changed for me?
            > > > >
            > > > > One thing I used to feel good about when talking about eck was this idea
            > > that
            > > > it has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was synonymous with the
            > > sound
            > > > current.
            > > > >
            > > > > It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored for a decade, after
            > > > becoming a 5th. I could no longer ignore this dissonance, caused by the
            > > > plaigarism and ultimately this had led to me dropping out of eckankar.
            > > > >
            > > > > I have a question concerning the sound current. I experience this sound,
            > > > sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous to my study of eck.
            > > Maybe
            > > > it isn't important, where you read about it, if you take it as a principle and
            > > > work with it.
            > > > >
            > > > > Do you folks think the sound current is bogus? Delusions?
            > > > >
            > > > > This is an interesting point because I am interested in truth...
            > > > >
            > > > > BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion, good work. But this by
            > > > itself doesn't go to the underlying issues concerning the question, "What is
            > > the
            > > > Truth regarding the idea of the sound current as a way of connection with the
            > > > Divine??"
            > > > >
            > > > > Thanks,
            > > > >
            > > > > Russ
            > >
            >
          • prometheus_973
            Hello Etznab and All, Yes, it does seem that Twitchell re-invented the Soulmate theory with an Eck twist that is somewhat ambiguous. Eckankar disapproves the
            Message 5 of 22 , Dec 8, 2012
            • 0 Attachment
              Hello Etznab and All,
              Yes, it does seem that
              Twitchell re-invented
              the Soulmate theory
              with an Eck twist that
              is somewhat ambiguous.

              Eckankar disapproves
              the Soulmate theory
              (per se) and favors the
              Time-Twin theory.

              However, I doubt that
              many EKists can explain
              just how the Time-Twin
              Theory works or how
              it pertains to them. Plus,
              it is still limiting by using
              one pairing of Masculine
              and Feminine parts. I
              misspoke by referring
              to it as Twin-Soul.


              BTW-Why did Twitchell,
              the All Knowing Mahanta,
              refer to this Time-Twin
              explanation as a "theory?"
              Since when is EK Dogma
              a theory for an ECKist
              and not a fact and a true
              belief?


              Below is the ECK
              definition.

              PT's Time-Twin Theory
              states that when Soul
              discovers that It is the
              ECK and, thus, becomes
              the ECK that It has attained
              the symbol of Its Soulmate
              by blending the feminine
              and masculine forces within
              the individual into one,
              and this oneness is Itself.

              However, this EKplanation
              makes one wonder why
              the LEM has to be a male
              since the individual Soul
              becomes the ECK when It
              "blends" both "masculine
              and feminine forces into
              one... Itself."

              Actually, Twitchell's Time-
              Twin Theory resembles the
              Jewish Soulmate Theory
              of finding your other half
              (masculine or feminine)
              in order for Soul to become
              whole with Itself.

              Prometheus

              etznab wrote:
              I don't believe Paul Twitchell reinvented the Soul Mates thing. It looks to me
              more like he plagiarized, or paraphrased about it (adding his own spin as well,
              under the guise of Eck Masters, etc.). But hey, Eckankar is not a cult and it's
              against spiritual law to push one's beliefs on another :) If you don't believe
              me just read the FAQ section on Eckankar's web site. Look for the question: Is
              Eckankar a cult?

              ***

              There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book, Dialogues With The Master (1970),
              called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.

              Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness (first published in 1913?) - and
              compare the text with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to Paul Twitchell in
              Dialogues With The Master.

              http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up

              http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNo\
              \
              mad.pdf

              ***

              Remember that controversial subject of Soul Mates which appeared in Paul
              Twitchell's earlier books (I thought it was TTF, but here is something in
              DWTM)?

              Ali Nomad:

              Each and every SOUL, therefore, has its spiritual counterpart--its "other half,"
              with which it unites on the spiritual plane, when the time comes for attainment
              of immortality.

              Lord Sohang:

              "Each and every Soul, therefore, in the lower worlds has its spiritual
              counterpart - its other half with which it unites on the spiritual plane, when
              the time comes for the attainment of the highest goal of the world of Brahm and
              that counterpart is the ECK Spirit." (DWTM p. 176)

              https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!searchin/alt.religion.eckanka\
              \
              r/soul$20mates|sort:date/alt.religion.eckankar/9_e16rhw3gA/3VmvQQ811QsJ

              Now of course it depends on who Paul Twitchell is plagiarizing, as the
              information can vary. It can even appear contradictory. Example:

              [...] But unless the union has already been made in heaven through pure love,
              the physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness, for like all true
              sacraments it must be entered into and registered upon all planes. (p. 220)
              The Law of Divine Love will bring to each Soul its true marriage, a union in
              perfect purity on all planes. This according to the one life-theory is of course
              impossible for all; but since reincarnation is a fact, the Soul, through
              repeated experiences, learns to follow its Divine Guidance, hence will
              ultimately find its true mate. But they can be spiritually as well as physically
              married to their mates only when the old accounts of both have been balanced and
              the old complications set up through the mistakes of the past have been worked
              out. [... .]. (p. 221)

              The Voice Of Isis And Realms Of The Living Dead, by Harriett Augusta Curtiss

              http://archive.org/stream/TheVoiceOfIsis2ndEdition/CurtissFhAndHaTheVoiceOfIsis2\
              \
              ndEdition_djvu.txt

              Rebazar Tarzs in DWTM:

              "Now for the part of union between man and woman. Unless this union has been
              made on the higher planes through pure thought, the physical union cannot bring
              about peace and happiness, for like all true sacraments it must be entered into
              and registered upon all planes.

              "The law of divine love will bring to each Soul Its true marriage and union
              in perfect purity on all planes. This true marriage is that of Soul with the ECK
              - the polarization of each Soul - not two Souls or man and woman coming
              together. And, as it is, each Soul will be guided through repeated experience by
              divine guidance until It finds this true love, the love of ECK through the
              Mahanta. You can be spiritually as well as physically married to a mate only
              when the old accounts of both have been balanced, and old complications set up
              through mistakes of the past have been worked out. (p. 115)

              (My guess is that someone revised the original DWTM manuscript since the ECK
              (all caps) trademark didn't come about until 1968 and the Mahanta term didn't
              come into vogue until 1969; whereas the DWTM manuscript was reportedly written
              in 1956!)

              Now I remember (I think it was in The Tiger's Fang, Or was it The Eck-Vidya?)
              some Soul Mates controversy in Eckankar history where I believe Harold Klemp and
              Eckankar had to "correct" what Paul Twitchell earlier wrote. It was no longer
              about two people coming together, but a person finding (in so many words) their
              own "higher self".

              I haven't finished checking all the references to Soul Mates in all of Paul's
              books, so don't just go on what I quoted from DWTM.

              ***

              Btw, my Yahoo has been bouncing since Nov. 28 so I've been out of the loop since
              then and hadn't received any posts via email. Just now are catching up.


              <prometheus wrote:
              >
              > Hello Non eckchains and All,
              > The Soulmate theory
              > phenomena is an interesting
              > spiritual perspective
              > and is, actually, unlimited
              > by conventional New Age
              > thought. Eckankar (PT)
              > reinvented it with a
              > Twin-Soul perspective.
              > This is interesting, but
              > IMO it shouldn't be limited
              > to or by PT's "Twin" Soul
              > view and a single pairing
              > only.
              >
              > Thus, the connection that
              > some/many Souls have with
              > one another (IMO) s/b referred
              > to in the plural. Thus, Soulmates
              > is more than one pairing.
              > Unfortunately, for Eckists,
              > Klemp has them locked into
              > a "Twin" concept when there
              > are Triplets and many more!
              > This phenomena can be
              > a special connection/attraction
              > with lifelong friends, as well,
              > and not always be with sexual
              > partners.
              >
              > As far as Klemp's fraud
              > and his "frownish and fakish"
              > H.I.'s, well, that's to be
              > expected when they emulate
              > HK's own behaviour via clues
              > with the way the EK hierarchy
              > is run or the way in which
              > he speaks/refers to Joan and/
              > or tells his stories.
              >
              > With Klemp there's a lack
              > of forgiveness, compassion,
              > and empathy. These are
              > missing from Klemp's own
              > perspectives in his own life
              > stories.
              >
              > It's easy for him to judge
              > others and point out flaws
              > or to add "insight" and to
              > do EK tweaks on the letters
              > sent to him. And, that's
              > what Klemp does when
              > he "writes" in his hermit
              > batty cave.
              >
              > Thus, many of HK's RESAs
              > emulate his lack of empathy,
              > compassion, and forgiveness.
              > They talk a lot about "love"
              > but when it comes to the
              > business/spiritual side of
              > Eckankar and the "Guidelines,"
              > as set forth by HK via the
              > ESC, there is not much room
              > leftover for the byproducts
              > of love.
              >
              > Look at the way the Higher
              > initiations are handed out.
              > There are always strings
              > attached and it has more
              > to do with "Outer" posturing
              > and faking it with physical
              > requirements. What is said
              > or isn't said to the RESA
              > or done as a volunteer,
              > than with anything else
              > or with one's visible goodness,
              > has more importance in
              > deciding who gets a pink
              > slip. It's not love for God.
              > Long-time Eckists who
              > are loyal and loving and
              > are very nice people are
              > excluded from becoming
              > H.I.s because they haven't
              > jumped through enough
              > physical hoops of training,
              > retraining, volunteering, etc.
              >
              > Or, maybe they didn't seem
              > like a 'take charge" leader
              > or have a college education
              > and/or were high profile
              > professionals. It's amazing
              > how petty RESAs can be,
              > and these people are the
              > "righthand" of Klemp.
              >
              > In truth, many people who
              > left Eckankar did so out of
              > frustration caused via neglect
              > and unloving behavior towards
              > them. Once you've become
              > a member their main goal
              > has been achieved. From
              > there they dangle the carrot
              > for the higher initiations
              > and, now, make it very
              > difficult to achieve the 7th.
              > Eckists need to become
              > ESAs to become RESAs
              > and unless you're already
              > an ESA it's, now, much
              > more difficult to achieve.
              > And, for a 6th ESA to get
              > the 7th they, usually, need
              > to become a RESA.
              >
              > Thus, Klemp slowed-down
              > Initiations in 1985 due to
              > Darwin making 500 new
              > 5ths before leaving office.
              > So, more that 25 years later
              > what is Klemp's excuse for
              > not making more H.I.s and
              > for not expanding the "outer"
              > initiations and their numbers?
              >
              > It's actually a simple/obvious
              > explanation. Klemp is selfish.
              >
              > Klemp's lack of empathy,
              > compassion, forgiveness and
              > real, true love for his fellow
              > eckists, and the trickle-down
              > effect within the EK Hierarchy,
              > is why Eckankar and ECKists
              > are broken and lost. Their
              > delusional faith and fellowship
              > (it's a numbers game) is
              > what they cling to as do
              > all religionists. Yet, as with
              > all religionists, their faith
              > has the only chosen ones
              > who have been gifted with
              > special insight into God
              > (or whatever name they use).
              > EK is simply more of the same
              > but tweaked to fit a special
              > New Age/Metaphysical mindset.
              > It's the Easy Way until those,
              > now, with less than 30 plus
              > years want a 6th or 7th
              > initiation.
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              >
              > "Non" eckchains wrote:
              > I agree with a lot of what you have said here. I don't quite get the Soulmate
              > though. I have been met with mostly great difficulty in actualizing this, even
              > though it sounds quite nice. I am open to experiencing this, yet I am also
              > naturally intuitive and also he who questions a lot and enjoys experimenting
              and
              > investigating. Most people I meet are into holding tight to their beliefs and
              > don't like being around someone like me, if I am just being myself. For some
              > reason I ruffle feathers so maybe that means I need to stay away from certain
              > Birds. :) I don't know the answer.
              >
              > As far as the sound current. My experience has been dreams of beautiful music
              > sometimes, but also just feeling. Not everyone is musical. The sound current
              and
              > light may actually be too limiting. It is based on our two most used human
              > senses, seeing and hearing. There is so much more richness involved. We are
              > lacking in our sense of smell and there are other senses that other animals
              know
              > and experience that make us look like idiots sometimes. Humans are very
              arrogant
              > because of our superior ability to manipulate our environment, something that
              if
              > unchecked can and does cause great havoc, destruction and killing just to
              kill.
              >
              > Feeling and intuition is very under rated. Feelings allow us to have
              compassion
              > and empathy. That is a vibration I wish there was more of. People don't like
              it,
              > because it also means that we may have to relate to the pain of another, or to
              > our own pain. People are too hardened IMHO. At the same time, bless the ones
              who
              > act out of compassion to advocate and fight those who are indifferent to at
              > least living with some level of a little empathy. I think they have compassion
              > in them, it is just repressed, and imo is always pushing to express. I dare
              say,
              > that even klemp and his HI's are so frownish and fakish, because that is how
              you
              > repress feelings and natural compassion. It is harder for humans, because we
              are
              > more self-aware. Native American life often at least had sacred rituals for
              > killing to eat. We are lost..... Light and sound meditations may just be a
              > distraction and limiting us from our Whole Being. We cannot cut off a part of
              > ourselves and Be our Whole Being, imo.
              >
              > Non ; )
              >
              >
              > <prometheus wrote:
              > >
              > > Hello Tyson, Russ, and All,
              > > I believe that religious myth
              > > was created to explain away
              > > the phenomenal, and that
              > > religion was created in order
              > > to control the masses and,
              > > thus, use this undertaking
              > > for money, power, greed,
              > > status and other self-benefits
              > > for the hierarchies.
              > >
              > > The Blue Light/Blue Star?
              > > The human mind/brain
              > > functions similarly and
              > > when attention is placed
              > > upon subjects this produces
              > > chemical and electrical
              > > reactions. There are even
              > > mixed but similar responses
              > > to unconscious stimuli.
              > > But many people realize
              > > all of this but tend to
              > > forget it when seeking
              > > "spiritual" answers.
              > >
              > > People should not have
              > > faith in the words of
              > > others. People should
              > > No Longer give others
              > > 'the benefit of the doubt.'
              > >
              > > Yes, we can look at what
              > > principles they are sharing
              > > in order to help us to
              > > achieve a greater realization
              > > but we should not limit
              > > ourselves from going
              > > beyond the realizations
              > > and achievements in
              > > higher consciousness
              > > of those we view as
              > > ideals/icons.
              > >
              > > Thus, the concept of
              > > "Master" needs to be
              > > revised and eliminated.
              > >
              > > When the lessons have
              > > been taught, via real
              > > world examples of
              > > living, it then becomes
              > > our responsibility
              > > to demonstrate what
              > > we have learned as
              > > it pertains to our
              > > own unique individual
              > > personality and
              > > circumstances. We
              > > move-on and into
              > > our own unrestricted
              > > conscious awareness.
              > >
              > > IMHO- Jesus, and not
              > > always his apostles,
              > > taught some really
              > > advanced concepts.
              > > Too advanced for
              > > most of us today!
              > >
              > > I'll never forget this
              > > one Fung Fu episode
              > > where Cain ran into
              > > some religious fanatics
              > > who would not defend
              > > themselves and would
              > > turn the other cheek.
              > > Cain showed them that
              > > there was a third response.
              > > Instead of becoming
              > > a victim of violence,
              > > or responding with
              > > violence Cain stopped/
              > > blocked the violence
              > > i.e. punch or object
              > > and redirected its
              > > intended path.
              > >
              > > Anyway, I've heard
              > > sounds when first
              > > starting to mediate
              > > via TM. Everyone
              > > heard these tones.
              > > Generally the mind
              > > blocks out these
              > > background noises
              > > until it quiets down
              > > and empties itself.
              > > Actually, one can
              > > follow these sounds
              > > without placing
              > > too much attention
              > > on them. That's the
              > > trick. One doesn't
              > > place attention or
              > > attachment on any
              > > thought, imaginary
              > > vision or sound no
              > > matter how pleasant.
              > >
              > > Eventually, this will
              > > produce other by-
              > > products of awareness
              > > such as contentment.
              > >
              > > I have to say that one
              > > must discover their
              > > own reality. Don't take
              > > my word for anything.
              > > Divine Awareness is
              > > an individual experience
              > > and not a group path.
              > > I called it "Divine Awareness"
              > > in oder to give this
              > > private and personal
              > > Discovery by Soul a
              > > special designation.
              > > By referring to the
              > > uniqueness of the
              > > individual experience
              > > as 'Soul' does likewise.
              > >
              > > I will have to say that
              > > I've had help in validating
              > > that there is a Reality
              > > beyond the scientific
              > > explanations and that
              > > of religious dogma.
              > >
              > > I can only say that
              > > the Soulmate concept
              > > (IMO) is real in that
              > > it helps these Souls
              > > to form a special
              > > bond in order to merge
              > > and harmonize their
              > > vibrations and to better
              > > 'tune-in' to glimpses
              > > of, perhaps, our true
              > > origins and potential
              > > but also of this Here
              > > and Now.
              > >
              > > Prometheus
              > >
              > >
              > > "Tyson" wrote:
              > > The sound current, bani,
              > > shabd or nam is real.
              > >
              > > There is no religion that
              > > can claim it as there own.
              > >
              > > What is fiction is the
              > > dependance on a master
              > > that is created by religions
              > > of the light and sound.
              > >
              > > Only one initiation is
              > > important.
              > >
              > > Yet faith in a past master
              > > such as Christ, Krishna
              > > or Guru Nanak is just as
              > > valid.
              > >
              > > There is no mahanta.
              > >
              > > The blue star is no
              > > other than a manifestation
              > > created by a meeting
              > > between the holy spirit
              > > and ones higher self
              > > (soul).
              > >
              > > For Harold to claim to
              > > be the blue star is a
              > > way to snare the gullible.
              > > He is no more the blue
              > > star than the second
              > > coming of christ.
              > >
              > > I had heard the rushing
              > > wind as a member of
              > > eckankar so I wrongly
              > > believed that this path
              > > must be true.
              > >
              > > It was meditation on
              > > the third eye that brought
              > > the rushing wind, not
              > > Klemp.
              > >
              > > Eckankar was taken from
              > > the Sihk word Ek Ong Kar.
              > > Ek Ong Kar means one
              > > divine energy permeates
              > > all things.
              > >
              > >
              > > Russ wrote:
              > > > I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is ex eckist, interviewing
              > > David Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.
              > >
              > > > One of the interviewees, a man made a statement, paraphrasing here, that
              in
              > > his mind it doesn't matter where the writings of eckankar come from because
              he
              > > is finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it's more important to
              have
              > a
              > > connection with the sound current.
              > > >
              > > > I used to have that exact point of view. What changed for me?
              > > >
              > > > One thing I used to feel good about when talking about eck was this idea
              > that
              > > it has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was synonymous with the
              > sound
              > > current.
              > > >
              > > > It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored for a decade, after
              > > becoming a 5th. I could no longer ignore this dissonance, caused by the
              > > plaigarism and ultimately this had led to me dropping out of eckankar.
              > > >
              > > > I have a question concerning the sound current. I experience this sound,
              > > sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous to my study of eck.
              > Maybe
              > > it isn't important, where you read about it, if you take it as a principle
              and
              > > work with it.
              > > >
              > > > Do you folks think the sound current is bogus? Delusions?
              > > >
              > > > This is an interesting point because I am interested in truth...
              > > >
              > > > BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion, good work. But this by
              > > itself doesn't go to the underlying issues concerning the question, "What is
              > the
              > > Truth regarding the idea of the sound current as a way of connection with
              the
              > > Divine??"
              > > >
              > > > Thanks,
              > > >
              > > > Russ
            • prometheus_973
              Hello Etznab, I was reading some of this book, which was written in 1913 or 15, and just about every page sounds a lot like Twitchell s various writings.
              Message 6 of 22 , Dec 8, 2012
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                Hello Etznab,
                I was reading some
                of this book, which
                was written in 1913
                or 15, and just about
                every page sounds
                a lot like Twitchell's
                various writings.

                Twitchell must have
                plagiarized the hell
                out of this in order
                to create his EK dogma
                and to make himself
                seem spiritually advanced,
                knowledgable, and
                wise. And, since PT
                was a narcissist he
                probably used this
                info to impress others,
                including Gail, when,
                in truth, he was a
                mere wannabe, liar,
                and plagiarist.

                Prometheus


                Etznab wrote:

                There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book,
                Dialogues With The Master (1970),
                called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.

                Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness
                (first published in 1913?) - and compare the text
                with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to Paul
                Twitchell in Dialogues With The Master.

                http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up
                http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNo\
                \\\mad.pdf
              • Non
                On the Truth vs. Fiction part and books from the 1910 era, I found an interesting article about Louise Hay and how her popularity really increased due to her
                Message 7 of 22 , Dec 8, 2012
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                  On the Truth vs. Fiction part and books from the 1910 era, I found an interesting article about Louise Hay and how her popularity really increased due to her involvement with the Aids epidemic, especially in California. On the one hand she offered the hope of complete healing, while at the same time giving a disclaimer by saying that the healing may only be spiritual and not necessarily physical. (sounds kind of like what klemp and the like always do!) It is asserted that most of the dogma about the absolute power of positive thought, or whatever, was most popular when science or medicine didn't have clear evidence for a good cure to illness. Those with Aids were being shunned, especially by organized religions. I found this article doing some searches on New Age and Angels.

                  http://www.icsahome.com/logon/elibdocview.asp?Subject=The+Queen+of+the+New+Age+

                  I just thought it was interesting that what is really going on with New Age Religion is 'just a little bit of history repeating'.
                  :D
                  Then again I have come to the conclusion that all religions have their myths and angles to pray to for this or that. You might say that eck masters are just like angels or saints or what have you. It's all kind of the same stuff, just different depending on the culture. Name the religion and there will be variations and even changes as a result of cultural or tribal tendencies. Imagine what ekankar is really like in Africa or India or in the U.S. Has Klemp ever made a trip to Africa?

                  Non ; )

                  --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hello Etznab,
                  > I was reading some
                  > of this book, which
                  > was written in 1913
                  > or 15, and just about
                  > every page sounds
                  > a lot like Twitchell's
                  > various writings.
                  >
                  > Twitchell must have
                  > plagiarized the hell
                  > out of this in order
                  > to create his EK dogma
                  > and to make himself
                  > seem spiritually advanced,
                  > knowledgable, and
                  > wise. And, since PT
                  > was a narcissist he
                  > probably used this
                  > info to impress others,
                  > including Gail, when,
                  > in truth, he was a
                  > mere wannabe, liar,
                  > and plagiarist.
                  >
                  > Prometheus
                  >
                  >
                  > Etznab wrote:
                  >
                  > There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book,
                  > Dialogues With The Master (1970),
                  > called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.
                  >
                  > Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness
                  > (first published in 1913?) - and compare the text
                  > with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to Paul
                  > Twitchell in Dialogues With The Master.
                  >
                  > http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up
                  > http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNo\
                  > \\\mad.pdf
                  >
                • Russ Rodnick
                  sure does have the same characteristics.  ________________________________ From: prometheus_973 To:
                  Message 8 of 22 , Dec 9, 2012
                  • 0 Attachment
                    sure does have the same characteristics. 


                    From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
                    To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Saturday, December 8, 2012 10:58 PM
                    Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the Sound Current?

                     
                    Hello Etznab,
                    I was reading some
                    of this book, which
                    was written in 1913
                    or 15, and just about
                    every page sounds
                    a lot like Twitchell's
                    various writings.

                    Twitchell must have
                    plagiarized the hell
                    out of this in order
                    to create his EK dogma
                    and to make himself
                    seem spiritually advanced,
                    knowledgable, and
                    wise. And, since PT
                    was a narcissist he
                    probably used this
                    info to impress others,
                    including Gail, when,
                    in truth, he was a
                    mere wannabe, liar,
                    and plagiarist.

                    Prometheus

                    Etznab wrote:

                    There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book,
                    Dialogues With The Master (1970),
                    called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.

                    Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness
                    (first published in 1913?) - and compare the text
                    with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to Paul
                    Twitchell in Dialogues With The Master.

                    http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up
                    http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNo\
                    \\\mad.pdf



                  • Russ Rodnick
                    I was told by a HI who was a featured African seminar speaker, that the Africans seriously regard the chosen one as the mahanta and give them every
                    Message 9 of 22 , Dec 9, 2012
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                      I was told by a HI who was a featured African seminar speaker, that the Africans seriously regard the chosen one as the mahanta and give them every consideration while there; and that thousands of chelas and interested parties show up. 

                      I have thought the eck provided a powerful juju against the black magicians of africa, of which I am told there are many. I know of a chief who possesses knowledge of ways to kill and effect people. He is considered a 'man of power' by those he looks after, here in the states. 

                      This teaching's roots are based on actual metaphysical principles, and I'm afraid that it has developed 'legs' of its own. Add to this the power of belief, and you have a plethora of metaphysical phenomena; which go to the lore and mythology of the teaching/religion. 

                      Like it or not, it will most likely live on. I daresay, some good may come from it. Some sincere people find solace in organized religion, even though it is mostly based on lies. 

                      I still want to know the truth...

                      Russ


                      From: Non <eckchains@...>
                      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Sunday, December 9, 2012 1:44 AM
                      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the Sound Current?

                       
                      On the Truth vs. Fiction part and books from the 1910 era, I found an interesting article about Louise Hay and how her popularity really increased due to her involvement with the Aids epidemic, especially in California. On the one hand she offered the hope of complete healing, while at the same time giving a disclaimer by saying that the healing may only be spiritual and not necessarily physical. (sounds kind of like what klemp and the like always do!) It is asserted that most of the dogma about the absolute power of positive thought, or whatever, was most popular when science or medicine didn't have clear evidence for a good cure to illness. Those with Aids were being shunned, especially by organized religions. I found this article doing some searches on New Age and Angels.

                      http://www.icsahome.com/logon/elibdocview.asp?Subject=The+Queen+of+the+New+Age+

                      I just thought it was interesting that what is really going on with New Age Religion is 'just a little bit of history repeating'.
                      :D
                      Then again I have come to the conclusion that all religions have their myths and angles to pray to for this or that. You might say that eck masters are just like angels or saints or what have you. It's all kind of the same stuff, just different depending on the culture. Name the religion and there will be variations and even changes as a result of cultural or tribal tendencies. Imagine what ekankar is really like in Africa or India or in the U.S. Has Klemp ever made a trip to Africa?

                      Non ; )

                      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hello Etznab,
                      > I was reading some
                      > of this book, which
                      > was written in 1913
                      > or 15, and just about
                      > every page sounds
                      > a lot like Twitchell's
                      > various writings.
                      >
                      > Twitchell must have
                      > plagiarized the hell
                      > out of this in order
                      > to create his EK dogma
                      > and to make himself
                      > seem spiritually advanced,
                      > knowledgable, and
                      > wise. And, since PT
                      > was a narcissist he
                      > probably used this
                      > info to impress others,
                      > including Gail, when,
                      > in truth, he was a
                      > mere wannabe, liar,
                      > and plagiarist.
                      >
                      > Prometheus
                      >
                      >
                      > Etznab wrote:
                      >
                      > There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book,
                      > Dialogues With The Master (1970),
                      > called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.
                      >
                      > Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness
                      > (first published in 1913?) - and compare the text
                      > with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to Paul
                      > Twitchell in Dialogues With The Master.
                      >
                      > http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up
                      > http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNo Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (13)
                      Recent Activity:
                      .



                    • etznab@aol.com
                      These are only sample excerpts, but will show in the two books where to look. *** Lord Sohang: Man is a spiritual being.     The source of this spiritual
                      Message 10 of 22 , Dec 9, 2012
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                        These are only sample excerpts, but will show in the two books where to
                        look.

                        ***

                        Lord Sohang:

                        "Man is a spiritual being.    
                        "The source of this spiritual Omniscience, you may not, in our
                        finite intelligence, fully cognize, because full cognition would
                        preclude the possibility of finite expression.    
                        "The destiny of man is to dwell in his true home.    
                        "His true home is that nameless world where dwells the true Lord of
                        all infinity.    
                        "The argument of the saviors of the three worlds is that man's
                        destiny is perfection.    
                        "Man perfected becomes a god, they say.    
                        "To become a God in the land of Daswan Dwar is to become immortal.
                           
                        "Let me consider what this means, supposing it to be an axiom of
                        truth.    
                        "Mortality is subject to change and death. Mortality is the manifest
                        - the stage upon which man in his life plays many parts.    
                        "Immortality is what the word implies, Godhood, and recognized in
                        the mortal 'I am' or, 'Om', the charged word of the Brahman of the
                        world of Brahm. It stands for the changeless, birthless, deathless,
                        unamable power that holds the worlds in space, and puts intelligence
                        into man. [... .]

                        - Dialogues With The Master, by Paul Twitchell (1970) p. 174

                        Ali Nomad:

                        Man is essentially a spiritual being.

                        The source of this spiritual Omniscience we may not, in our finite
                        intelligence, fully cognize, because full cognition would preclude the
                        possibility of finite expression. The destiny of man is perfection. Man
                        perfected becomes a god.

                        "Only the gods are immortal," we are told.

                        Let us consider what this means, supposing it to be an axiom of truth.

                        Mortality is subject to change and death. Mortality is the
                        manifest--the stage upon which "man in his life plays many parts."

                        Immortality, is what the word says it is--godhood re-cognized in the
                        mortal. "Im" or, "Om"--the more general term--stands for the
                        Changeless. Birthless. Deathless. Unnamable Power that holds the worlds
                        in space, and puts intelligence into man. [... .]

                        http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up/search/omniscience

                        Lord Sohang:

                        "Each and every Soul, therefore, in the lower worlds has its spiritual
                        counterpart - its other half with which it unites on the spiritual
                        plane, when the time comes for the attainment of the highest goal of
                        the world of Brahm and that counterpart is the ECK Spirit." (DWTM p.
                        176)

                        Ali Nomad:

                        Each and every SOUL, therefore, has its spiritual counterpart--its
                        "other half," with which it unites on the spiritual plane, when the
                        time comes for attainment of immortality.

                        http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/6/mode/2up/search/counterpart

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Russ Rodnick <russrodnick@...>
                        To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
                        <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Sun, Dec 9, 2012 8:51 am
                        Subject: Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the
                        Sound Current?

                         
                        sure does have the same characteristics. 


                        From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
                        To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Saturday, December 8, 2012 10:58 PM
                        Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the
                        Sound Current?


                          Hello Etznab,
                        I was reading some
                        of this book, which
                        was written in 1913
                        or 15, and just about
                        every page sounds
                        a lot like Twitchell's
                        various writings.

                        Twitchell must have
                        plagiarized the hell
                        out of this in order
                        to create his EK dogma
                        and to make himself
                        seem spiritually advanced,
                        knowledgable, and
                        wise. And, since PT
                        was a narcissist he
                        probably used this
                        info to impress others,
                        including Gail, when,
                        in truth, he was a
                        mere wannabe, liar,
                        and plagiarist.

                        Prometheus

                        Etznab wrote:

                        There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book,
                        Dialogues With The Master (1970),
                        called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.

                        Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness
                        (first published in 1913?) - and compare the text
                        with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to Paul
                        Twitchell in Dialogues With The Master.

                        http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up
                        http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNo\
                        \\\mad.pdf
                      • prometheus_973
                        Hello Non and Russ, I too was once involved with metaphysics via The Unity School of Christianity. And, have explored Christian Science, to a degree, as well
                        Message 11 of 22 , Dec 9, 2012
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                          Hello Non and Russ,
                          I too was once involved
                          with metaphysics via
                          The Unity School of
                          Christianity. And, have
                          explored Christian
                          Science, to a degree,
                          as well as other
                          metaphysical thought
                          prior to Eckankar.

                          The danger is that
                          New Age thought
                          (Revised Metaphysics),
                          and religious cults
                          as Eckankar et al.,
                          will encourage people
                          to follow their Faith
                          in alternative cultish
                          cures such as positive
                          thinking, white magic,
                          homeopathy and other
                          non orthodox magical/
                          mystical/natural forms
                          of medicine/healing.
                          Healing Crystals anyone?

                          But, these alternative
                          treatments only go
                          so far and these treatments
                          can sometimes mask
                          or hide serious health
                          problems. People can
                          confuse symptoms
                          and side-effects and,
                          via blind faith, will not
                          seek timely traditional
                          treatment proven to
                          help or cure, until, it
                          becomes too late!

                          Those who put their
                          faith and trust in the
                          ECK and in Klemp and
                          who think that HUing
                          will help to heal them
                          are deluded.

                          EKists emulate Klemp
                          with his focus on
                          alternative medicine,
                          but even Klemp, after
                          falling on Black Ice
                          and breaking his hip,
                          needed to have surgery
                          and metal work and
                          was given pain meds
                          and even asked for more!

                          It's true that traditional
                          medicine and prescription
                          drugs are a racket of sorts,
                          but vitamins and herbal
                          remedies etc. are a racket
                          too! And that applies to
                          many other alternative
                          forms of (metaphysical)
                          New Age medicine and
                          health remedies.

                          Anyway, here's an excerpt
                          from the below site. To me
                          it shows a time-line of how
                          people came to mistrust
                          traditional medicine and the
                          role that non traditional religion
                          or psychic spirituality had
                          to play.

                          However, just because
                          traditional Western Religion
                          and Medicine had stumbled
                          together doesn't mean that
                          they are connected to each
                          other. Western Medicine is
                          based upon Science whereas
                          Religion isn't! Neither Eastern
                          or Western Religion, or their
                          sects, are based upon facts.
                          It's all about dogma based
                          upon opposing beliefs and
                          divine authority via revelation.

                          And, individually, it's mostly
                          about subjective faith and
                          belief which is why non-
                          traditional alternative forms
                          of "medicine" are connected
                          to non-traditional New Age
                          thought and to metaphysics
                          in general. Personally, I don't
                          trust Western Medicine or
                          doctors completely, but
                          I don't trust Alternative
                          Medicine at all... unlike
                          many ECKists. Still, it's
                          funny seeing ECKists
                          accepting their Mahanta
                          sitting in a wheelchair as
                          though there's no significance
                          as to how it happened or
                          that it happened at all.

                          http://www.icsahome.com/logon/elibdocview.asp?Subject=The+Queen+of+the+New+Age+

                          "Hay's Religious Science is an example of what the scholar Catherine L. Albanese calls metaphysical religion, a tradition that began spreading in America in the mid-19th century. "For metaphysics," Albanese writes in "A Republic of Mind and Spirit," "religion turns on an individual's experience of `mind' (instead of `heart,' as in evangelicalism)." Metaphysical religion includes intuition or psychic work, clairvoyance and channeling otherworldly figures, and forms of it have been popularized in, for example, Christian Science, which its founder, Mary Baker Eddy, said would allow people to cure disease with prayer, and books like "The Power of Positive Thinking," by the preacher Norman Vincent Peale. What they all have in common — Christian Science; its cousin Religious Science; Peale's 1952 megaseller; and contemporary best sellers like Rhonda Byrne's "The Secret" — is a conviction that proper thinking, rather than religious faith or fervor, is the key to metaphysical power.

                          Metaphysical religion has frequently stepped into the breach where Western medicine and Western religion will not or cannot go. When I asked The Rev. Wade Adkisson, the current pastor of Hay's old Church of Religious Science, why as a new church in the 1930s it appealed to people, he said: "At that time the medical world was very basic. A doctor carried with him two things: a bottle of whiskey and a knife. So people were looking for alternative methods of healing." Of course, Adkisson says he believes in those alternative methods of healing. If, as he says, "cancer is merely the outpicturing of one's emotional state," then it can be cured with prayer. But he also admits that for marketing mind cures in the 1930s, it helped that traditional medicine was so impoverished."

                          Non wrote:
                          >
                          > On the Truth vs. Fiction part and books from the 1910 era, I found an interesting article about Louise Hay and how her popularity really increased due to her involvement with the Aids epidemic, especially in California. On the one hand she offered the hope of complete healing, while at the same time giving a disclaimer by saying that the healing may only be spiritual and not necessarily physical. (sounds kind of like what klemp and the like always do!) It is asserted that most of the dogma about the absolute power of positive thought, or whatever, was most popular when science or medicine didn't have clear evidence for a good cure to illness. Those with Aids were being shunned, especially by organized religions. I found this article doing some searches on New Age and Angels.
                          >
                          http://www.icsahome.com/logon/elibdocview.asp?Subject=The+Queen+of+the+New+Age+
                          >
                          > I just thought it was interesting that what is really going on with New Age Religion is 'just a little bit of history repeating'.
                          > :D
                          > Then again I have come to the conclusion that all religions have their myths and angles to pray to for this or that. You might say that eck masters are just like angels or saints or what have you. It's all kind of the same stuff, just different depending on the culture. Name the religion and there will be variations and even changes as a result of cultural or tribal tendencies. Imagine what ekankar is really like in Africa or India or in the U.S. Has Klemp ever made a trip to Africa?
                          >
                          > Non ; )
                          >
                          > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Hello Etznab,
                          > > I was reading some
                          > > of this book, which
                          > > was written in 1913
                          > > or 15, and just about
                          > > every page sounds
                          > > a lot like Twitchell's
                          > > various writings.
                          > >
                          > > Twitchell must have
                          > > plagiarized the hell
                          > > out of this in order
                          > > to create his EK dogma
                          > > and to make himself
                          > > seem spiritually advanced,
                          > > knowledgable, and
                          > > wise. And, since PT
                          > > was a narcissist he
                          > > probably used this
                          > > info to impress others,
                          > > including Gail, when,
                          > > in truth, he was a
                          > > mere wannabe, liar,
                          > > and plagiarist.
                          > >
                          > > Prometheus
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Etznab wrote:
                          > >
                          > > There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book,
                          > > Dialogues With The Master (1970),
                          > > called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.
                          > >
                          > > Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness
                          > > (first published in 1913?) - and compare the text
                          > > with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to Paul
                          > > Twitchell in Dialogues With The Master.
                          > >
                          > > http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up
                          > > http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNo\
                          > > \\\mad.pdf
                          > >
                          >
                        • Janice Pfeiffer
                          Thank you Non for your reply.  I guess I understand more about what you said.  Good luck, ... From: Non Subject:
                          Message 12 of 22 , Dec 9, 2012
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                            Thank you Non for your reply.  I guess I understand more about what you said.  Good luck,

                            --- On Wed, 12/5/12, Non <eckchains@...> wrote:

                            From: Non <eckchains@...>
                            Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the Sound Current?
                            To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Wednesday, December 5, 2012, 8:13 AM

                             
                            Janice, I just have to say, that in person I am very shy and soft spoken, it's just that what I say may be disagreeable as it is often to the point, even if I try to express it gently. A friend of mine once sent me a card that said "It is better to be hated for who you are than loved for who you are not." My writing style is different than how I speak. I actually speak slowly and often have problems with people who talk fast. Actually, my main problem might be that in person I am afraid to simply be who I am. I am very sensitive to most people I meet, to a fault and spend more time listening, when I should probably be more spontaneous and even abrasive.

                            I think you are only seeing one side of me, as I express myself more directly in some of these blogs, and yes I hold in some anger that is more easily expressed in writing. I still have a problem with wanting to trust the cons too much, and yes getting taken. There seems to be more people than I remember who are callous and mean these days. Maybe hard times do that to people. I'm actually too nice in person, but it is based on both a sense of compassion as well as some guilt about my right to just be who I am. Sometimes it is OK to be just plain rude imo and not nice all the time, especially if someone is trying to push their arrogant, dogmatic spirituality/religion onto you.

                            Non ;)

                            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer <jepfeiffer@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > I too agree with Prometheus.  He and I have formed a lot of the same concepts it seems.  As far as the soul mate thing, Non, I don't think it is something you can make.  You are just fortunate when you meet some one that feels like an echo from the past.  You just know that you know them and you know so much about each other with out knowing how you know when you first meet.  My soul mate is gone now but we had something right from the start that couldn't be explained in words.  We could speak in half sentences and have perfect understanding.  He knew my thoughts and could feel my feelings.  He knew what I liked with out being told.  We could enjoy silence and not need to talk.  There was just something very real between us that didn't come from the present and didn't make logical sense in the physical world.  I do hope that at some point, you know what I am saying.  It is a very precious thing to have.  Maybe everyone doesn't have it in
                            > every life time.  It is true that you do express yourself sometimes in a some what abrasive manner but you also show a lot of insight at times and I have seen a lot of compassion in what you say also at times.  In your search, it would help if maybe you weren't quite so blunt with those you don't know well.  Wouldn't it be terrible if you chased a way the very one who does know you but because of a sharp initial few words, doesn't have a chance to take a good look and see that?  My experience when meeting people face to face is if there is a strong pull or a strong repulsion, it most likely does mean, you've known them before.  Sometimes it helps to just stand still and let the other person show you who they are.  About holding on to beliefs; I find religious people need to do that whereas spiritual people tend to change theirs as they evolve with more understanding.  That's what caused most of us to get into eckankar and what caused most of us
                            > to get out.  I use to feel angry about the lies but now I even feel a little gratitude for eckanar.  I never was one to accept things at face value and I usually wasn't fooled easily but I certainly was by eckankar.  It was a real experience.  It changed my life.  Not in the way, they intended maybe but I am now stronger, even more independent and I now know for the rest of my life, I can never be a part of any organized religious group again.  I think part of the reason I got into eckankar is I thought I needed to find those who were like me and I hoped that was it.  It wasn't but I thought I needed it to be.  Now I know I don't need that.  That's what it taught me.  Through it, I learned something of value about myself so it was a worthwhile experience.  Good luck with your search.  I hope you find just what you want.  Oh, don't forget to stand still; don't rush it and don't push it away.  Sound current and senses is another story for me
                            > so I won't comment now.  Again, all the best to you now and always. 
                            > --- On Tue, 12/4/12, Non <eckchains@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > From: Non <eckchains@...>
                            > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the Sound Current?
                            > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                            > Date: Tuesday, December 4, 2012, 9:28 AM
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >  
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > I agree with a lot of what you have said here. I don't quite get the Soulmate though. I have been met with mostly great difficulty in actualizing this, even though it sounds quite nice. I am open to experiencing this, yet I am also naturally intuitive and also he who questions a lot and enjoys experimenting and investigating. Most people I meet are into holding tight to their beliefs and don't like being around someone like me, if I am just being myself. For some reason I ruffle feathers so maybe that means I need to stay away from certain Birds. :) I don't know the answer.
                            >
                            > As far as the sound current. My experience has been dreams of beautiful music sometimes, but also just feeling. Not everyone is musical. The sound current and light may actually be too limiting. It is based on our two most used human senses, seeing and hearing. There is so much more richness involved. We are lacking in our sense of smell and there are other senses that other animals know and experience that make us look like idiots sometimes. Humans are very arrogant because of our superior ability to manipulate our environment, something that if unchecked can and does cause great havoc, destruction and killing just to kill.
                            >
                            > Feeling and intuition is very under rated. Feelings allow us to have compassion and empathy. That is a vibration I wish there was more of. People don't like it, because it also means that we may have to relate to the pain of another, or to our own pain. People are too hardened IMHO. At the same time, bless the ones who act out of compassion to advocate and fight those who are indifferent to at least living with some level of a little empathy. I think they have compassion in them, it is just repressed, and imo is always pushing to express. I dare say, that even klemp and his HI's are so frownish and fakish, because that is how you repress feelings and natural compassion. It is harder for humans, because we are more self-aware. Native American life often at least had sacred rituals for killing to eat. We are lost..... Light and sound meditations may just be a distraction and limiting us from our Whole Being. We cannot cut off a part of ourselves and Be our
                            > Whole Being, imo.
                            >
                            > Non ; )
                            >
                            > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Hello Tyson, Russ, and All,
                            > > I believe that religious myth
                            > > was created to explain away
                            > > the phenomenal, and that
                            > > religion was created in order
                            > > to control the masses and,
                            > > thus, use this undertaking
                            > > for money, power, greed,
                            > > status and other self-benefits
                            > > for the hierarchies.
                            > >
                            > > The Blue Light/Blue Star?
                            > > The human mind/brain
                            > > functions similarly and
                            > > when attention is placed
                            > > upon subjects this produces
                            > > chemical and electrical
                            > > reactions. There are even
                            > > mixed but similar responses
                            > > to unconscious stimuli.
                            > > But many people realize
                            > > all of this but tend to
                            > > forget it when seeking
                            > > "spiritual" answers.
                            > >
                            > > People should not have
                            > > faith in the words of
                            > > others. People should
                            > > No Longer give others
                            > > 'the benefit of the doubt.'
                            > >
                            > > Yes, we can look at what
                            > > principles they are sharing
                            > > in order to help us to
                            > > achieve a greater realization
                            > > but we should not limit
                            > > ourselves from going
                            > > beyond the realizations
                            > > and achievements in
                            > > higher consciousness
                            > > of those we view as
                            > > ideals/icons.
                            > >
                            > > Thus, the concept of
                            > > "Master" needs to be
                            > > revised and eliminated.
                            > >
                            > > When the lessons have
                            > > been taught, via real
                            > > world examples of
                            > > living, it then becomes
                            > > our responsibility
                            > > to demonstrate what
                            > > we have learned as
                            > > it pertains to our
                            > > own unique individual
                            > > personality and
                            > > circumstances. We
                            > > move-on and into
                            > > our own unrestricted
                            > > conscious awareness.
                            > >
                            > > IMHO- Jesus, and not
                            > > always his apostles,
                            > > taught some really
                            > > advanced concepts.
                            > > Too advanced for
                            > > most of us today!
                            > >
                            > > I'll never forget this
                            > > one Fung Fu episode
                            > > where Cain ran into
                            > > some religious fanatics
                            > > who would not defend
                            > > themselves and would
                            > > turn the other cheek.
                            > > Cain showed them that
                            > > there was a third response.
                            > > Instead of becoming
                            > > a victim of violence,
                            > > or responding with
                            > > violence Cain stopped/
                            > > blocked the violence
                            > > i.e. punch or object
                            > > and redirected its
                            > > intended path.
                            > >
                            > > Anyway, I've heard
                            > > sounds when first
                            > > starting to mediate
                            > > via TM. Everyone
                            > > heard these tones.
                            > > Generally the mind
                            > > blocks out these
                            > > background noises
                            > > until it quiets down
                            > > and empties itself.
                            > > Actually, one can
                            > > follow these sounds
                            > > without placing
                            > > too much attention
                            > > on them. That's the
                            > > trick. One doesn't
                            > > place attention or
                            > > attachment on any
                            > > thought, imaginary
                            > > vision or sound no
                            > > matter how pleasant.
                            > >
                            > > Eventually, this will
                            > > produce other by-
                            > > products of awareness
                            > > such as contentment.
                            > >
                            > > I have to say that one
                            > > must discover their
                            > > own reality. Don't take
                            > > my word for anything.
                            > > Divine Awareness is
                            > > an individual experience
                            > > and not a group path.
                            > > I called it "Divine Awareness"
                            > > in oder to give this
                            > > private and personal
                            > > Discovery by Soul a
                            > > special designation.
                            > > By referring to the
                            > > uniqueness of the
                            > > individual experience
                            > > as 'Soul' does likewise.
                            > >
                            > > I will have to say that
                            > > I've had help in validating
                            > > that there is a Reality
                            > > beyond the scientific
                            > > explanations and that
                            > > of religious dogma.
                            > >
                            > > I can only say that
                            > > the Soulmate concept
                            > > (IMO) is real in that
                            > > it helps these Souls
                            > > to form a special
                            > > bond in order to merge
                            > > and harmonize their
                            > > vibrations and to better
                            > > 'tune-in' to glimpses
                            > > of, perhaps, our true
                            > > origins and potential
                            > > but also of this Here
                            > > and Now.
                            > >
                            > > Prometheus
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > "Tyson" wrote:
                            > > The sound current, bani,
                            > > shabd or nam is real.
                            > >
                            > > There is no religion that
                            > > can claim it as there own.
                            > >
                            > > What is fiction is the
                            > > dependance on a master
                            > > that is created by religions
                            > > of the light and sound.
                            > >
                            > > Only one initiation is
                            > > important.
                            > >
                            > > Yet faith in a past master
                            > > such as Christ, Krishna
                            > > or Guru Nanak is just as
                            > > valid.
                            > >
                            > > There is no mahanta.
                            > >
                            > > The blue star is no
                            > > other than a manifestation
                            > > created by a meeting
                            > > between the holy spirit
                            > > and ones higher self
                            > > (soul).
                            > >
                            > > For Harold to claim to
                            > > be the blue star is a
                            > > way to snare the gullible.
                            > > He is no more the blue
                            > > star than the second
                            > > coming of christ.
                            > >
                            > > I had heard the rushing
                            > > wind as a member of
                            > > eckankar so I wrongly
                            > > believed that this path
                            > > must be true.
                            > >
                            > > It was meditation on
                            > > the third eye that brought
                            > > the rushing wind, not
                            > > Klemp.
                            > >
                            > > Eckankar was taken from
                            > > the Sihk word Ek Ong Kar.
                            > > Ek Ong Kar means one
                            > > divine energy permeates
                            > > all things.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Russ wrote:
                            > > > I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is ex eckist, interviewing
                            > > David Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.
                            > >
                            > > > One of the interviewees, a man made a statement, paraphrasing here, that in
                            > > his mind it doesn't matter where the writings of eckankar come from because he
                            > > is finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it's more important to have a
                            > > connection with the sound current.
                            > > >
                            > > > I used to have that exact point of view. What changed for me?
                            > > >
                            > > > One thing I used to feel good about when talking about eck was this idea that
                            > > it has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was synonymous with the sound
                            > > current.
                            > > >
                            > > > It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored for a decade, after
                            > > becoming a 5th. I could no longer ignore this dissonance, caused by the
                            > > plaigarism and ultimately this had led to me dropping out of eckankar.
                            > > >
                            > > > I have a question concerning the sound current. I experience this sound,
                            > > sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous to my study of eck. Maybe
                            > > it isn't important, where you read about it, if you take it as a principle and
                            > > work with it.
                            > > >
                            > > > Do you folks think the sound current is bogus? Delusions?
                            > > >
                            > > > This is an interesting point because I am interested in truth...
                            > > >
                            > > > BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion, good work. But this by
                            > > itself doesn't go to the underlying issues concerning the question, "What is the
                            > > Truth regarding the idea of the sound current as a way of connection with the
                            > > Divine??"
                            > > >
                            > > > Thanks,
                            > > >
                            > > > Russ
                            > > >
                            > >
                            >

                          • Janice Pfeiffer
                            I can t view the concept of a soulmate being two parts of a whole no matter where it comes from.  I don t believe any of us are half of a whole.  Maybe Paul
                            Message 13 of 22 , Dec 9, 2012
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                              I can't view the concept of a soulmate being two parts of a whole no matter where it comes from.  I don't believe any of us are half of a whole.  Maybe Paul needed that concept as a reason for why he fell for Gail. 

                              --- On Sat, 12/8/12, etznab18 <etznab@...> wrote:

                              From: etznab18 <etznab@...>
                              Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the Sound Current?
                              To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                              Date: Saturday, December 8, 2012, 5:11 AM

                               
                              I don't believe Paul Twitchell reinvented the Soul Mates thing. It looks to me more like he plagiarized, or paraphrased about it (adding his own spin as well, under the guise of Eck Masters, etc.). But hey, Eckankar is not a cult and it's against spiritual law to push one's beliefs on another :) If you don't believe me just read the FAQ section on Eckankar's web site. Look for the question: Is Eckankar a cult?

                              ***

                              There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book, Dialogues With The Master (1970), called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.

                              Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness (first published in 1913?) - and compare the text with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to Paul Twitchell in Dialogues With The Master.

                              http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up

                              http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNomad.pdf

                              ***

                              Remember that controversial subject of Soul Mates which appeared in Paul Twitche;ll's earlier books (I thought it was TTF, but here is something in DWTM)?

                              Ali Nomad:

                              Each and every SOUL, therefore, has its spiritual counterpart--its "other half," with which it unites on the spiritual plane, when the time comes for attainment of immortality.

                              Lord Sohang:

                              "Each and every Soul, therefore, in the lower worlds has its spiritual counterpart - its other half with which it unites on the spiritual plane, when the time comes for the attainment of the highest goal of the world of Brahm and that counterpart is the ECK Spirit." (DWTM p. 176)

                              https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!searchin/alt.religion.eckankar/soul$20mates|sort:date/alt.religion.eckankar/9_e16rhw3gA/3VmvQQ811QsJ

                              Now of course it depends on who Paul Twitchell is plagiarizing, as the information can vary. It can even appear contradictory. Example:

                              [...] But unless the union has already been made in heaven through pure love, the physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness, for like all true sacraments it must be entered into and registered upon all planes. (p. 220)
                              The Law of Divine Love will bring to each Soul its true marriage, a union in perfect purity on all planes. This according to the one life-theory is of course impossible for all; but since reincarnation is a fact, the Soul, through repeated experiences, learns to follow its Divine Guidance, hence will ultimately find its true mate. But they can be spiritually as well as physically married to their mates only when the old accounts of both have been balanced and the old complications set up through the mistakes of the past have been worked out. [... .]. (p. 221)

                              The Voice Of Isis And Realms Of The Living Dead, by Harriett Augusta Curtiss

                              http://archive.org/stream/TheVoiceOfIsis2ndEdition/CurtissFhAndHaTheVoiceOfIsis2ndEdition_djvu.txt

                              Rebazar Tarzs in DWTM:

                              "Now for the part of union between man and woman. Unless this union has been made on the higher planes through pure thought, the physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness, for like all true sacraments it must be entered into and registered upon all planes.
                              "The law of divine love will bring to each Soul Its true marriage and union in perfect purity on all planes. This true marriage is that of Soul with the ECK - the polarization of each Soul - not two Souls or man and woman coming together. And, as it is, each Soul will be guided through repeated experience by divine guidance until It finds this true love, the love of ECK through the Mahanta. You can be spiritually as well as physically married to a mate only when the old accounts of both have been balanced, and old complications set up through mistakes of the past have been worked out. (p. 115)

                              (My guess is that someone revised the original DWTM manuscript since the ECK (all caps) trademark didn't come about until 1968 and the Mahanta term didn't come into vogue until 1969; whereas the DWTM manuscript was reportedly written in 1956!)

                              Now I remember (I think it was in The Tiger's Fang, Or was it The Eck-Vidya?) some Soul Mates controversy in Eckankar history where I believe Harold Klemp and Eckankar had to "correct" what Paul Twitchell earlier wrote. It was no longer about two people coming together, but a person finding (in so many words) their own "higher self".

                              I haven't finished checking all the references to Soul Mates in all of Paul's books, so don't just go on what I quoted from DWTM.

                              ***

                              Btw, my Yahoo has been bouncing since Nov. 28 so I've been out of the loop since then and hadn't received any posts via email. Just now are catching up.

                              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Hello Non eckchains and All,
                              > The Soulmate theory
                              > phenomena is an interesting
                              > spiritual perspective
                              > and is, actually, unlimited
                              > by conventional New Age
                              > thought. Eckankar (PT)
                              > reinvented it with a
                              > Twin-Soul perspective.
                              > This is interesting, but
                              > IMO it shouldn't be limited
                              > to or by PT's "Twin" Soul
                              > view and a single pairing
                              > only.
                              >
                              > Thus, the connection that
                              > some/many Souls have with
                              > one another (IMO) s/b referred
                              > to in the plural. Thus, Soulmates
                              > is more than one pairing.
                              > Unfortunately, for Eckists,
                              > Klemp has them locked into
                              > a "Twin" concept when there
                              > are Triplets and many more!
                              > This phenomena can be
                              > a special connection/attraction
                              > with lifelong friends, as well,
                              > and not always be with sexual
                              > partners.
                              >
                              > As far as Klemp's fraud
                              > and his "frownish and fakish"
                              > H.I.'s, well, that's to be
                              > expected when they emulate
                              > HK's own behaviour via clues
                              > with the way the EK hierarchy
                              > is run or the way in which
                              > he speaks/refers to Joan and/
                              > or tells his stories.
                              >
                              > With Klemp there's a lack
                              > of forgiveness, compassion,
                              > and empathy. These are
                              > missing from Klemp's own
                              > perspectives in his own life
                              > stories.
                              >
                              > It's easy for him to judge
                              > others and point out flaws
                              > or to add "insight" and to
                              > do EK tweaks on the letters
                              > sent to him. And, that's
                              > what Klemp does when
                              > he "writes" in his hermit
                              > batty cave.
                              >
                              > Thus, many of HK's RESAs
                              > emulate his lack of empathy,
                              > compassion, and forgiveness.
                              > They talk a lot about "love"
                              > but when it comes to the
                              > business/spiritual side of
                              > Eckankar and the "Guidelines,"
                              > as set forth by HK via the
                              > ESC, there is not much room
                              > leftover for the byproducts
                              > of love.
                              >
                              > Look at the way the Higher
                              > initiations are handed out.
                              > There are always strings
                              > attached and it has more
                              > to do with "Outer" posturing
                              > and faking it with physical
                              > requirements. What is said
                              > or isn't said to the RESA
                              > or done as a volunteer,
                              > than with anything else
                              > or with one's visible goodness,
                              > has more importance in
                              > deciding who gets a pink
                              > slip. It's not love for God.
                              > Long-time Eckists who
                              > are loyal and loving and
                              > are very nice people are
                              > excluded from becoming
                              > H.I.s because they haven't
                              > jumped through enough
                              > physical hoops of training,
                              > retraining, volunteering, etc.
                              >
                              > Or, maybe they didn't seem
                              > like a 'take charge" leader
                              > or have a college education
                              > and/or were high profile
                              > professionals. It's amazing
                              > how petty RESAs can be,
                              > and these people are the
                              > "righthand" of Klemp.
                              >
                              > In truth, many people who
                              > left Eckankar did so out of
                              > frustration caused via neglect
                              > and unloving behavior towards
                              > them. Once you've become
                              > a member their main goal
                              > has been achieved. From
                              > there they dangle the carrot
                              > for the higher initiations
                              > and, now, make it very
                              > difficult to achieve the 7th.
                              > Eckists need to become
                              > ESAs to become RESAs
                              > and unless you're already
                              > an ESA it's, now, much
                              > more difficult to achieve.
                              > And, for a 6th ESA to get
                              > the 7th they, usually, need
                              > to become a RESA.
                              >
                              > Thus, Klemp slowed-down
                              > Initiations in 1985 due to
                              > Darwin making 500 new
                              > 5ths before leaving office.
                              > So, more that 25 years later
                              > what is Klemp's excuse for
                              > not making more H.I.s and
                              > for not expanding the "outer"
                              > initiations and their numbers?
                              >
                              > It's actually a simple/obvious
                              > explanation. Klemp is selfish.
                              >
                              > Klemp's lack of empathy,
                              > compassion, forgiveness and
                              > real, true love for his fellow
                              > eckists, and the trickle-down
                              > effect within the EK Hierarchy,
                              > is why Eckankar and ECKists
                              > are broken and lost. Their
                              > delusional faith and fellowship
                              > (it's a numbers game) is
                              > what they cling to as do
                              > all religionists. Yet, as with
                              > all religionists, their faith
                              > has the only chosen ones
                              > who have been gifted with
                              > special insight into God
                              > (or whatever name they use).
                              > EK is simply more of the same
                              > but tweaked to fit a special
                              > New Age/Metaphysical mindset.
                              > It's the Easy Way until those,
                              > now, with less than 30 plus
                              > years want a 6th or 7th
                              > initiation.
                              >
                              > Prometheus
                              >
                              >
                              > "Non" eckchains wrote:
                              > I agree with a lot of what you have said here. I don't quite get the Soulmate
                              > though. I have been met with mostly great difficulty in actualizing this, even
                              > though it sounds quite nice. I am open to experiencing this, yet I am also
                              > naturally intuitive and also he who questions a lot and enjoys experimenting and
                              > investigating. Most people I meet are into holding tight to their beliefs and
                              > don't like being around someone like me, if I am just being myself. For some
                              > reason I ruffle feathers so maybe that means I need to stay away from certain
                              > Birds. :) I don't know the answer.
                              >
                              > As far as the sound current. My experience has been dreams of beautiful music
                              > sometimes, but also just feeling. Not everyone is musical. The sound current and
                              > light may actually be too limiting. It is based on our two most used human
                              > senses, seeing and hearing. There is so much more richness involved. We are
                              > lacking in our sense of smell and there are other senses that other animals know
                              > and experience that make us look like idiots sometimes. Humans are very arrogant
                              > because of our superior ability to manipulate our environment, something that if
                              > unchecked can and does cause great havoc, destruction and killing just to kill.
                              >
                              > Feeling and intuition is very under rated. Feelings allow us to have compassion
                              > and empathy. That is a vibration I wish there was more of. People don't like it,
                              > because it also means that we may have to relate to the pain of another, or to
                              > our own pain. People are too hardened IMHO. At the same time, bless the ones who
                              > act out of compassion to advocate and fight those who are indifferent to at
                              > least living with some level of a little empathy. I think they have compassion
                              > in them, it is just repressed, and imo is always pushing to express. I dare say,
                              > that even klemp and his HI's are so frownish and fakish, because that is how you
                              > repress feelings and natural compassion. It is harder for humans, because we are
                              > more self-aware. Native American life often at least had sacred rituals for
                              > killing to eat. We are lost..... Light and sound meditations may just be a
                              > distraction and limiting us from our Whole Being. We cannot cut off a part of
                              > ourselves and Be our Whole Being, imo.
                              >
                              > Non ; )
                              >
                              >
                              > <prometheus wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Hello Tyson, Russ, and All,
                              > > I believe that religious myth
                              > > was created to explain away
                              > > the phenomenal, and that
                              > > religion was created in order
                              > > to control the masses and,
                              > > thus, use this undertaking
                              > > for money, power, greed,
                              > > status and other self-benefits
                              > > for the hierarchies.
                              > >
                              > > The Blue Light/Blue Star?
                              > > The human mind/brain
                              > > functions similarly and
                              > > when attention is placed
                              > > upon subjects this produces
                              > > chemical and electrical
                              > > reactions. There are even
                              > > mixed but similar responses
                              > > to unconscious stimuli.
                              > > But many people realize
                              > > all of this but tend to
                              > > forget it when seeking
                              > > "spiritual" answers.
                              > >
                              > > People should not have
                              > > faith in the words of
                              > > others. People should
                              > > No Longer give others
                              > > 'the benefit of the doubt.'
                              > >
                              > > Yes, we can look at what
                              > > principles they are sharing
                              > > in order to help us to
                              > > achieve a greater realization
                              > > but we should not limit
                              > > ourselves from going
                              > > beyond the realizations
                              > > and achievements in
                              > > higher consciousness
                              > > of those we view as
                              > > ideals/icons.
                              > >
                              > > Thus, the concept of
                              > > "Master" needs to be
                              > > revised and eliminated.
                              > >
                              > > When the lessons have
                              > > been taught, via real
                              > > world examples of
                              > > living, it then becomes
                              > > our responsibility
                              > > to demonstrate what
                              > > we have learned as
                              > > it pertains to our
                              > > own unique individual
                              > > personality and
                              > > circumstances. We
                              > > move-on and into
                              > > our own unrestricted
                              > > conscious awareness.
                              > >
                              > > IMHO- Jesus, and not
                              > > always his apostles,
                              > > taught some really
                              > > advanced concepts.
                              > > Too advanced for
                              > > most of us today!
                              > >
                              > > I'll never forget this
                              > > one Fung Fu episode
                              > > where Cain ran into
                              > > some religious fanatics
                              > > who would not defend
                              > > themselves and would
                              > > turn the other cheek.
                              > > Cain showed them that
                              > > there was a third response.
                              > > Instead of becoming
                              > > a victim of violence,
                              > > or responding with
                              > > violence Cain stopped/
                              > > blocked the violence
                              > > i.e. punch or object
                              > > and redirected its
                              > > intended path.
                              > >
                              > > Anyway, I've heard
                              > > sounds when first
                              > > starting to mediate
                              > > via TM. Everyone
                              > > heard these tones.
                              > > Generally the mind
                              > > blocks out these
                              > > background noises
                              > > until it quiets down
                              > > and empties itself.
                              > > Actually, one can
                              > > follow these sounds
                              > > without placing
                              > > too much attention
                              > > on them. That's the
                              > > trick. One doesn't
                              > > place attention or
                              > > attachment on any
                              > > thought, imaginary
                              > > vision or sound no
                              > > matter how pleasant.
                              > >
                              > > Eventually, this will
                              > > produce other by-
                              > > products of awareness
                              > > such as contentment.
                              > >
                              > > I have to say that one
                              > > must discover their
                              > > own reality. Don't take
                              > > my word for anything.
                              > > Divine Awareness is
                              > > an individual experience
                              > > and not a group path.
                              > > I called it "Divine Awareness"
                              > > in oder to give this
                              > > private and personal
                              > > Discovery by Soul a
                              > > special designation.
                              > > By referring to the
                              > > uniqueness of the
                              > > individual experience
                              > > as 'Soul' does likewise.
                              > >
                              > > I will have to say that
                              > > I've had help in validating
                              > > that there is a Reality
                              > > beyond the scientific
                              > > explanations and that
                              > > of religious dogma.
                              > >
                              > > I can only say that
                              > > the Soulmate concept
                              > > (IMO) is real in that
                              > > it helps these Souls
                              > > to form a special
                              > > bond in order to merge
                              > > and harmonize their
                              > > vibrations and to better
                              > > 'tune-in' to glimpses
                              > > of, perhaps, our true
                              > > origins and potential
                              > > but also of this Here
                              > > and Now.
                              > >
                              > > Prometheus
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > "Tyson" wrote:
                              > > The sound current, bani,
                              > > shabd or nam is real.
                              > >
                              > > There is no religion that
                              > > can claim it as there own.
                              > >
                              > > What is fiction is the
                              > > dependance on a master
                              > > that is created by religions
                              > > of the light and sound.
                              > >
                              > > Only one initiation is
                              > > important.
                              > >
                              > > Yet faith in a past master
                              > > such as Christ, Krishna
                              > > or Guru Nanak is just as
                              > > valid.
                              > >
                              > > There is no mahanta.
                              > >
                              > > The blue star is no
                              > > other than a manifestation
                              > > created by a meeting
                              > > between the holy spirit
                              > > and ones higher self
                              > > (soul).
                              > >
                              > > For Harold to claim to
                              > > be the blue star is a
                              > > way to snare the gullible.
                              > > He is no more the blue
                              > > star than the second
                              > > coming of christ.
                              > >
                              > > I had heard the rushing
                              > > wind as a member of
                              > > eckankar so I wrongly
                              > > believed that this path
                              > > must be true.
                              > >
                              > > It was meditation on
                              > > the third eye that brought
                              > > the rushing wind, not
                              > > Klemp.
                              > >
                              > > Eckankar was taken from
                              > > the Sihk word Ek Ong Kar.
                              > > Ek Ong Kar means one
                              > > divine energy permeates
                              > > all things.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Russ wrote:
                              > > > I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is ex eckist, interviewing
                              > > David Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.
                              > >
                              > > > One of the interviewees, a man made a statement, paraphrasing here, that in
                              > > his mind it doesn't matter where the writings of eckankar come from because he
                              > > is finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it's more important to have
                              > a
                              > > connection with the sound current.
                              > > >
                              > > > I used to have that exact point of view. What changed for me?
                              > > >
                              > > > One thing I used to feel good about when talking about eck was this idea
                              > that
                              > > it has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was synonymous with the
                              > sound
                              > > current.
                              > > >
                              > > > It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored for a decade, after
                              > > becoming a 5th. I could no longer ignore this dissonance, caused by the
                              > > plaigarism and ultimately this had led to me dropping out of eckankar.
                              > > >
                              > > > I have a question concerning the sound current. I experience this sound,
                              > > sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous to my study of eck.
                              > Maybe
                              > > it isn't important, where you read about it, if you take it as a principle and
                              > > work with it.
                              > > >
                              > > > Do you folks think the sound current is bogus? Delusions?
                              > > >
                              > > > This is an interesting point because I am interested in truth...
                              > > >
                              > > > BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion, good work. But this by
                              > > itself doesn't go to the underlying issues concerning the question, "What is
                              > the
                              > > Truth regarding the idea of the sound current as a way of connection with the
                              > > Divine??"
                              > > >
                              > > > Thanks,
                              > > >
                              > > > Russ
                              >

                            • harrisonferrel
                              I agree. But I also think that most New Age thinking is absurd because it is baseless and without evidence. The soul concept cannot be proven, let alone the
                              Message 14 of 22 , Dec 10, 2012
                              • 0 Attachment
                                I agree. But I also think that most New Age thinking is absurd because it is baseless and without evidence. The soul concept cannot be proven, let alone the soulmate idea.



                                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer <jepfeiffer@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > I can't view the concept of a soulmate being two parts of a whole no matter where it comes from.  I don't believe any of us are half of a whole.  Maybe Paul needed that concept as a reason for why he fell for Gail. 
                                >
                                > --- On Sat, 12/8/12, etznab18 <etznab@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > From: etznab18 <etznab@...>
                                > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the Sound Current?
                                > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                                > Date: Saturday, December 8, 2012, 5:11 AM
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >  
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > I don't believe Paul Twitchell reinvented the Soul Mates thing. It looks to me more like he plagiarized, or paraphrased about it (adding his own spin as well, under the guise of Eck Masters, etc.). But hey, Eckankar is not a cult and it's against spiritual law to push one's beliefs on another :) If you don't believe me just read the FAQ section on Eckankar's web site. Look for the question: Is Eckankar a cult?
                                >
                                > ***
                                >
                                > There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book, Dialogues With The Master (1970), called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.
                                >
                                > Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness (first published in 1913?) - and compare the text with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to Paul Twitchell in Dialogues With The Master.
                                >
                                > http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up
                                >
                                > http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNomad.pdf
                                >
                                > ***
                                >
                                > Remember that controversial subject of Soul Mates which appeared in Paul Twitche;ll's earlier books (I thought it was TTF, but here is something in DWTM)?
                                >
                                > Ali Nomad:
                                >
                                > Each and every SOUL, therefore, has its spiritual counterpart--its "other half," with which it unites on the spiritual plane, when the time comes for attainment of immortality.
                                >
                                > Lord Sohang:
                                >
                                > "Each and every Soul, therefore, in the lower worlds has its spiritual counterpart - its other half with which it unites on the spiritual plane, when the time comes for the attainment of the highest goal of the world of Brahm and that counterpart is the ECK Spirit." (DWTM p. 176)
                                >
                                > https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!searchin/alt.religion.eckankar/soul$20mates|sort:date/alt.religion.eckankar/9_e16rhw3gA/3VmvQQ811QsJ
                                >
                                > Now of course it depends on who Paul Twitchell is plagiarizing, as the information can vary. It can even appear contradictory. Example:
                                >
                                > [...] But unless the union has already been made in heaven through pure love, the physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness, for like all true sacraments it must be entered into and registered upon all planes. (p. 220)
                                > The Law of Divine Love will bring to each Soul its true marriage, a union in perfect purity on all planes. This according to the one life-theory is of course impossible for all; but since reincarnation is a fact, the Soul, through repeated experiences, learns to follow its Divine Guidance, hence will ultimately find its true mate. But they can be spiritually as well as physically married to their mates only when the old accounts of both have been balanced and the old complications set up through the mistakes of the past have been worked out. [... .]. (p. 221)
                                >
                                > The Voice Of Isis And Realms Of The Living Dead, by Harriett Augusta Curtiss
                                >
                                > http://archive.org/stream/TheVoiceOfIsis2ndEdition/CurtissFhAndHaTheVoiceOfIsis2ndEdition_djvu.txt
                                >
                                > Rebazar Tarzs in DWTM:
                                >
                                > "Now for the part of union between man and woman. Unless this union has been made on the higher planes through pure thought, the physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness, for like all true sacraments it must be entered into and registered upon all planes.
                                > "The law of divine love will bring to each Soul Its true marriage and union in perfect purity on all planes. This true marriage is that of Soul with the ECK - the polarization of each Soul - not two Souls or man and woman coming together. And, as it is, each Soul will be guided through repeated experience by divine guidance until It finds this true love, the love of ECK through the Mahanta. You can be spiritually as well as physically married to a mate only when the old accounts of both have been balanced, and old complications set up through mistakes of the past have been worked out. (p. 115)
                                >
                                > (My guess is that someone revised the original DWTM manuscript since the ECK (all caps) trademark didn't come about until 1968 and the Mahanta term didn't come into vogue until 1969; whereas the DWTM manuscript was reportedly written in 1956!)
                                >
                                > Now I remember (I think it was in The Tiger's Fang, Or was it The Eck-Vidya?) some Soul Mates controversy in Eckankar history where I believe Harold Klemp and Eckankar had to "correct" what Paul Twitchell earlier wrote. It was no longer about two people coming together, but a person finding (in so many words) their own "higher self".
                                >
                                > I haven't finished checking all the references to Soul Mates in all of Paul's books, so don't just go on what I quoted from DWTM.
                                >
                                > ***
                                >
                                > Btw, my Yahoo has been bouncing since Nov. 28 so I've been out of the loop since then and hadn't received any posts via email. Just now are catching up.
                                >
                                > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Hello Non eckchains and All,
                                > > The Soulmate theory
                                > > phenomena is an interesting
                                > > spiritual perspective
                                > > and is, actually, unlimited
                                > > by conventional New Age
                                > > thought. Eckankar (PT)
                                > > reinvented it with a
                                > > Twin-Soul perspective.
                                > > This is interesting, but
                                > > IMO it shouldn't be limited
                                > > to or by PT's "Twin" Soul
                                > > view and a single pairing
                                > > only.
                                > >
                                > > Thus, the connection that
                                > > some/many Souls have with
                                > > one another (IMO) s/b referred
                                > > to in the plural. Thus, Soulmates
                                > > is more than one pairing.
                                > > Unfortunately, for Eckists,
                                > > Klemp has them locked into
                                > > a "Twin" concept when there
                                > > are Triplets and many more!
                                > > This phenomena can be
                                > > a special connection/attraction
                                > > with lifelong friends, as well,
                                > > and not always be with sexual
                                > > partners.
                                > >
                                > > As far as Klemp's fraud
                                > > and his "frownish and fakish"
                                > > H.I.'s, well, that's to be
                                > > expected when they emulate
                                > > HK's own behaviour via clues
                                > > with the way the EK hierarchy
                                > > is run or the way in which
                                > > he speaks/refers to Joan and/
                                > > or tells his stories.
                                > >
                                > > With Klemp there's a lack
                                > > of forgiveness, compassion,
                                > > and empathy. These are
                                > > missing from Klemp's own
                                > > perspectives in his own life
                                > > stories.
                                > >
                                > > It's easy for him to judge
                                > > others and point out flaws
                                > > or to add "insight" and to
                                > > do EK tweaks on the letters
                                > > sent to him. And, that's
                                > > what Klemp does when
                                > > he "writes" in his hermit
                                > > batty cave.
                                > >
                                > > Thus, many of HK's RESAs
                                > > emulate his lack of empathy,
                                > > compassion, and forgiveness.
                                > > They talk a lot about "love"
                                > > but when it comes to the
                                > > business/spiritual side of
                                > > Eckankar and the "Guidelines,"
                                > > as set forth by HK via the
                                > > ESC, there is not much room
                                > > leftover for the byproducts
                                > > of love.
                                > >
                                > > Look at the way the Higher
                                > > initiations are handed out.
                                > > There are always strings
                                > > attached and it has more
                                > > to do with "Outer" posturing
                                > > and faking it with physical
                                > > requirements. What is said
                                > > or isn't said to the RESA
                                > > or done as a volunteer,
                                > > than with anything else
                                > > or with one's visible goodness,
                                > > has more importance in
                                > > deciding who gets a pink
                                > > slip. It's not love for God.
                                > > Long-time Eckists who
                                > > are loyal and loving and
                                > > are very nice people are
                                > > excluded from becoming
                                > > H.I.s because they haven't
                                > > jumped through enough
                                > > physical hoops of training,
                                > > retraining, volunteering, etc.
                                > >
                                > > Or, maybe they didn't seem
                                > > like a 'take charge" leader
                                > > or have a college education
                                > > and/or were high profile
                                > > professionals. It's amazing
                                > > how petty RESAs can be,
                                > > and these people are the
                                > > "righthand" of Klemp.
                                > >
                                > > In truth, many people who
                                > > left Eckankar did so out of
                                > > frustration caused via neglect
                                > > and unloving behavior towards
                                > > them. Once you've become
                                > > a member their main goal
                                > > has been achieved. From
                                > > there they dangle the carrot
                                > > for the higher initiations
                                > > and, now, make it very
                                > > difficult to achieve the 7th.
                                > > Eckists need to become
                                > > ESAs to become RESAs
                                > > and unless you're already
                                > > an ESA it's, now, much
                                > > more difficult to achieve.
                                > > And, for a 6th ESA to get
                                > > the 7th they, usually, need
                                > > to become a RESA.
                                > >
                                > > Thus, Klemp slowed-down
                                > > Initiations in 1985 due to
                                > > Darwin making 500 new
                                > > 5ths before leaving office.
                                > > So, more that 25 years later
                                > > what is Klemp's excuse for
                                > > not making more H.I.s and
                                > > for not expanding the "outer"
                                > > initiations and their numbers?
                                > >
                                > > It's actually a simple/obvious
                                > > explanation. Klemp is selfish.
                                > >
                                > > Klemp's lack of empathy,
                                > > compassion, forgiveness and
                                > > real, true love for his fellow
                                > > eckists, and the trickle-down
                                > > effect within the EK Hierarchy,
                                > > is why Eckankar and ECKists
                                > > are broken and lost. Their
                                > > delusional faith and fellowship
                                > > (it's a numbers game) is
                                > > what they cling to as do
                                > > all religionists. Yet, as with
                                > > all religionists, their faith
                                > > has the only chosen ones
                                > > who have been gifted with
                                > > special insight into God
                                > > (or whatever name they use).
                                > > EK is simply more of the same
                                > > but tweaked to fit a special
                                > > New Age/Metaphysical mindset.
                                > > It's the Easy Way until those,
                                > > now, with less than 30 plus
                                > > years want a 6th or 7th
                                > > initiation.
                                > >
                                > > Prometheus
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > "Non" eckchains wrote:
                                > > I agree with a lot of what you have said here. I don't quite get the Soulmate
                                > > though. I have been met with mostly great difficulty in actualizing this, even
                                > > though it sounds quite nice. I am open to experiencing this, yet I am also
                                > > naturally intuitive and also he who questions a lot and enjoys experimenting and
                                > > investigating. Most people I meet are into holding tight to their beliefs and
                                > > don't like being around someone like me, if I am just being myself. For some
                                > > reason I ruffle feathers so maybe that means I need to stay away from certain
                                > > Birds. :) I don't know the answer.
                                > >
                                > > As far as the sound current. My experience has been dreams of beautiful music
                                > > sometimes, but also just feeling. Not everyone is musical. The sound current and
                                > > light may actually be too limiting. It is based on our two most used human
                                > > senses, seeing and hearing. There is so much more richness involved. We are
                                > > lacking in our sense of smell and there are other senses that other animals know
                                > > and experience that make us look like idiots sometimes. Humans are very arrogant
                                > > because of our superior ability to manipulate our environment, something that if
                                > > unchecked can and does cause great havoc, destruction and killing just to kill.
                                > >
                                > > Feeling and intuition is very under rated. Feelings allow us to have compassion
                                > > and empathy. That is a vibration I wish there was more of. People don't like it,
                                > > because it also means that we may have to relate to the pain of another, or to
                                > > our own pain. People are too hardened IMHO. At the same time, bless the ones who
                                > > act out of compassion to advocate and fight those who are indifferent to at
                                > > least living with some level of a little empathy. I think they have compassion
                                > > in them, it is just repressed, and imo is always pushing to express. I dare say,
                                > > that even klemp and his HI's are so frownish and fakish, because that is how you
                                > > repress feelings and natural compassion. It is harder for humans, because we are
                                > > more self-aware. Native American life often at least had sacred rituals for
                                > > killing to eat. We are lost..... Light and sound meditations may just be a
                                > > distraction and limiting us from our Whole Being. We cannot cut off a part of
                                > > ourselves and Be our Whole Being, imo.
                                > >
                                > > Non ; )
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > <prometheus wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > Hello Tyson, Russ, and All,
                                > > > I believe that religious myth
                                > > > was created to explain away
                                > > > the phenomenal, and that
                                > > > religion was created in order
                                > > > to control the masses and,
                                > > > thus, use this undertaking
                                > > > for money, power, greed,
                                > > > status and other self-benefits
                                > > > for the hierarchies.
                                > > >
                                > > > The Blue Light/Blue Star?
                                > > > The human mind/brain
                                > > > functions similarly and
                                > > > when attention is placed
                                > > > upon subjects this produces
                                > > > chemical and electrical
                                > > > reactions. There are even
                                > > > mixed but similar responses
                                > > > to unconscious stimuli.
                                > > > But many people realize
                                > > > all of this but tend to
                                > > > forget it when seeking
                                > > > "spiritual" answers.
                                > > >
                                > > > People should not have
                                > > > faith in the words of
                                > > > others. People should
                                > > > No Longer give others
                                > > > 'the benefit of the doubt.'
                                > > >
                                > > > Yes, we can look at what
                                > > > principles they are sharing
                                > > > in order to help us to
                                > > > achieve a greater realization
                                > > > but we should not limit
                                > > > ourselves from going
                                > > > beyond the realizations
                                > > > and achievements in
                                > > > higher consciousness
                                > > > of those we view as
                                > > > ideals/icons.
                                > > >
                                > > > Thus, the concept of
                                > > > "Master" needs to be
                                > > > revised and eliminated.
                                > > >
                                > > > When the lessons have
                                > > > been taught, via real
                                > > > world examples of
                                > > > living, it then becomes
                                > > > our responsibility
                                > > > to demonstrate what
                                > > > we have learned as
                                > > > it pertains to our
                                > > > own unique individual
                                > > > personality and
                                > > > circumstances. We
                                > > > move-on and into
                                > > > our own unrestricted
                                > > > conscious awareness.
                                > > >
                                > > > IMHO- Jesus, and not
                                > > > always his apostles,
                                > > > taught some really
                                > > > advanced concepts.
                                > > > Too advanced for
                                > > > most of us today!
                                > > >
                                > > > I'll never forget this
                                > > > one Fung Fu episode
                                > > > where Cain ran into
                                > > > some religious fanatics
                                > > > who would not defend
                                > > > themselves and would
                                > > > turn the other cheek.
                                > > > Cain showed them that
                                > > > there was a third response.
                                > > > Instead of becoming
                                > > > a victim of violence,
                                > > > or responding with
                                > > > violence Cain stopped/
                                > > > blocked the violence
                                > > > i.e. punch or object
                                > > > and redirected its
                                > > > intended path.
                                > > >
                                > > > Anyway, I've heard
                                > > > sounds when first
                                > > > starting to mediate
                                > > > via TM. Everyone
                                > > > heard these tones.
                                > > > Generally the mind
                                > > > blocks out these
                                > > > background noises
                                > > > until it quiets down
                                > > > and empties itself.
                                > > > Actually, one can
                                > > > follow these sounds
                                > > > without placing
                                > > > too much attention
                                > > > on them. That's the
                                > > > trick. One doesn't
                                > > > place attention or
                                > > > attachment on any
                                > > > thought, imaginary
                                > > > vision or sound no
                                > > > matter how pleasant.
                                > > >
                                > > > Eventually, this will
                                > > > produce other by-
                                > > > products of awareness
                                > > > such as contentment.
                                > > >
                                > > > I have to say that one
                                > > > must discover their
                                > > > own reality. Don't take
                                > > > my word for anything.
                                > > > Divine Awareness is
                                > > > an individual experience
                                > > > and not a group path.
                                > > > I called it "Divine Awareness"
                                > > > in oder to give this
                                > > > private and personal
                                > > > Discovery by Soul a
                                > > > special designation.
                                > > > By referring to the
                                > > > uniqueness of the
                                > > > individual experience
                                > > > as 'Soul' does likewise.
                                > > >
                                > > > I will have to say that
                                > > > I've had help in validating
                                > > > that there is a Reality
                                > > > beyond the scientific
                                > > > explanations and that
                                > > > of religious dogma.
                                > > >
                                > > > I can only say that
                                > > > the Soulmate concept
                                > > > (IMO) is real in that
                                > > > it helps these Souls
                                > > > to form a special
                                > > > bond in order to merge
                                > > > and harmonize their
                                > > > vibrations and to better
                                > > > 'tune-in' to glimpses
                                > > > of, perhaps, our true
                                > > > origins and potential
                                > > > but also of this Here
                                > > > and Now.
                                > > >
                                > > > Prometheus
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > "Tyson" wrote:
                                > > > The sound current, bani,
                                > > > shabd or nam is real.
                                > > >
                                > > > There is no religion that
                                > > > can claim it as there own.
                                > > >
                                > > > What is fiction is the
                                > > > dependance on a master
                                > > > that is created by religions
                                > > > of the light and sound.
                                > > >
                                > > > Only one initiation is
                                > > > important.
                                > > >
                                > > > Yet faith in a past master
                                > > > such as Christ, Krishna
                                > > > or Guru Nanak is just as
                                > > > valid.
                                > > >
                                > > > There is no mahanta.
                                > > >
                                > > > The blue star is no
                                > > > other than a manifestation
                                > > > created by a meeting
                                > > > between the holy spirit
                                > > > and ones higher self
                                > > > (soul).
                                > > >
                                > > > For Harold to claim to
                                > > > be the blue star is a
                                > > > way to snare the gullible.
                                > > > He is no more the blue
                                > > > star than the second
                                > > > coming of christ.
                                > > >
                                > > > I had heard the rushing
                                > > > wind as a member of
                                > > > eckankar so I wrongly
                                > > > believed that this path
                                > > > must be true.
                                > > >
                                > > > It was meditation on
                                > > > the third eye that brought
                                > > > the rushing wind, not
                                > > > Klemp.
                                > > >
                                > > > Eckankar was taken from
                                > > > the Sihk word Ek Ong Kar.
                                > > > Ek Ong Kar means one
                                > > > divine energy permeates
                                > > > all things.
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > Russ wrote:
                                > > > > I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is ex eckist, interviewing
                                > > > David Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.
                                > > >
                                > > > > One of the interviewees, a man made a statement, paraphrasing here, that in
                                > > > his mind it doesn't matter where the writings of eckankar come from because he
                                > > > is finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it's more important to have
                                > > a
                                > > > connection with the sound current.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > I used to have that exact point of view. What changed for me?
                                > > > >
                                > > > > One thing I used to feel good about when talking about eck was this idea
                                > > that
                                > > > it has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was synonymous with the
                                > > sound
                                > > > current.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored for a decade, after
                                > > > becoming a 5th. I could no longer ignore this dissonance, caused by the
                                > > > plaigarism and ultimately this had led to me dropping out of eckankar.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > I have a question concerning the sound current. I experience this sound,
                                > > > sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous to my study of eck.
                                > > Maybe
                                > > > it isn't important, where you read about it, if you take it as a principle and
                                > > > work with it.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Do you folks think the sound current is bogus? Delusions?
                                > > > >
                                > > > > This is an interesting point because I am interested in truth...
                                > > > >
                                > > > > BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion, good work. But this by
                                > > > itself doesn't go to the underlying issues concerning the question, "What is
                                > > the
                                > > > Truth regarding the idea of the sound current as a way of connection with the
                                > > > Divine??"
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Thanks,
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Russ
                                > >
                                >
                              • etznab@aol.com
                                I find it suspect whenever the female is downgraded in comparison with the male. In The Tiger s Fang (according to Lord Alakh Lok?): There is more to this law
                                Message 15 of 22 , Dec 10, 2012
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  I find it suspect whenever the female is downgraded in comparison with
                                  the male. In The Tiger's Fang (according to Lord Alakh Lok?):

                                  "There is more to this law than just the issues which have been given
                                  here. No Soul can enter into the worlds above the plane of Sat Lok
                                  without being complete within itself - without having both completed
                                  the cycle of balance and entering into the oneness with its other self,
                                  and both gaining the traits of the other .... and in the end, as it is
                                  said, becoming the male or original Soul as God first put on earth.
                                  This Soul had the qualities which God wanted, but could not be
                                  manifested unless Soul was split into two particular particles, the
                                  negative and the positive, for both to develop." (pp. 85-86)

                                  My comments:

                                  As it is said? Lord Alakh Lok says "as it is said"?

                                  I wonder, Did Paul Twitchell come up with this stuff from Radhasoami
                                  doctrine? Quoting:

                                  "The higher centres in a female form are less capable of being
                                  developed than in a male form. All the centres of Pind, Brahmand and
                                  Dayal Desh do exist in a woman as they do in man. But the centres
                                  higher than Sunn or Daswan Dwar cannot ordinarily be awakened in a
                                  woman. Hence, the highest point to which the spirit or Surat in a
                                  female can rise, is the Daswan Dwar. For higher ascension, the same
                                  Surat or spirit will have to take birth as a man, and perform the
                                  spiritual exercises for awakening higher centres. [... .]"

                                  http://www.rsfaith.org/images/stories/RSFBooks/English/Holy_Epistols_Part_5/holy_epistols_part_5_1.html

                                  Both versions on the subject are highly suspect, IMO. I think people
                                  probably butchered an older form of a story that subsequently took on
                                  Frankenstein form.

                                  I think there are two more sections about Soul Mates that I came across
                                  recently, both from Dialogues With The Master, at least one version of
                                  which appears to be from appropriated text.



                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...>
                                  To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
                                  <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Mon, Dec 10, 2012 4:26 pm
                                  Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the
                                  Sound Current?

                                   
                                  I agree. But I also think that most New Age thinking is absurd because
                                  it is baseless and without evidence. The soul concept cannot be proven,
                                  let alone the soulmate idea.

                                  --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer
                                  <jepfeiffer@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > I can't view the concept of a soulmate being two parts of a whole
                                  no matter where it comes from.  I don't believe any of us are half of
                                  a whole.  Maybe Paul needed that concept as a reason for why he fell
                                  for Gail. 
                                  >
                                  > --- On Sat, 12/8/12, etznab18 <etznab@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > From: etznab18 <etznab@...>
                                  > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the
                                  Sound Current?
                                  > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Date: Saturday, December 8, 2012, 5:11 AM
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >  
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > I don't believe Paul Twitchell reinvented the Soul Mates thing. It
                                  looks to me more like he plagiarized, or paraphrased about it (adding
                                  his own spin as well, under the guise of Eck Masters, etc.). But hey,
                                  Eckankar is not a cult and it's against spiritual law to push one's
                                  beliefs on another :) If you don't believe me just read the FAQ section
                                  on Eckankar's web site. Look for the question: Is Eckankar a cult?
                                  >
                                  > ***
                                  >
                                  > There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book, Dialogues With The
                                  Master (1970), called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.
                                  >
                                  > Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness (first published in
                                  1913?) - and compare the text with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to
                                  Paul Twitchell in Dialogues With The Master.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up
                                  >
                                  >
                                  http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNomad.pdf
                                  >
                                  > ***
                                  >
                                  > Remember that controversial subject of Soul Mates which appeared
                                  in Paul Twitche;ll's earlier books (I thought it was TTF, but here is
                                  something in DWTM)?
                                  >
                                  > Ali Nomad:
                                  >
                                  > Each and every SOUL, therefore, has its spiritual counterpart--its
                                  "other half," with which it unites on the spiritual plane, when the
                                  time comes for attainment of immortality.
                                  >
                                  > Lord Sohang:
                                  >
                                  > "Each and every Soul, therefore, in the lower worlds has its
                                  spiritual counterpart - its other half with which it unites on the
                                  spiritual plane, when the time comes for the attainment of the highest
                                  goal of the world of Brahm and that counterpart is the ECK Spirit."
                                  (DWTM p. 176)
                                  >
                                  >
                                  https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!searchin/alt.religion.eckankar/soul$20mates|sort:date/alt.religion.eckankar/9_e16rhw3gA/3VmvQQ811QsJ
                                  >
                                  > Now of course it depends on who Paul Twitchell is plagiarizing, as
                                  the information can vary. It can even appear contradictory. Example:
                                  >
                                  > [...] But unless the union has already been made in heaven through
                                  pure love, the physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness,
                                  for like all true sacraments it must be entered into and registered
                                  upon all planes. (p. 220)
                                  > The Law of Divine Love will bring to each Soul its true marriage,
                                  a union in perfect purity on all planes. This according to the one
                                  life-theory is of course impossible for all; but since reincarnation is
                                  a fact, the Soul, through repeated experiences, learns to follow its
                                  Divine Guidance, hence will ultimately find its true mate. But they can
                                  be spiritually as well as physically married to their mates only when
                                  the old accounts of both have been balanced and the old complications
                                  set up through the mistakes of the past have been worked out. [... .].
                                  (p. 221)
                                  >
                                  > The Voice Of Isis And Realms Of The Living Dead, by Harriett
                                  Augusta Curtiss
                                  >
                                  >
                                  http://archive.org/stream/TheVoiceOfIsis2ndEdition/CurtissFhAndHaTheVoiceOfIsis2ndEdition_djvu.txt
                                  >
                                  > Rebazar Tarzs in DWTM:
                                  >
                                  > "Now for the part of union between man and woman. Unless this
                                  union has been made on the higher planes through pure thought, the
                                  physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness, for like all
                                  true sacraments it must be entered into and registered upon all planes.
                                  > "The law of divine love will bring to each Soul Its true marriage
                                  and union in perfect purity on all planes. This true marriage is that
                                  of Soul with the ECK - the polarization of each Soul - not two Souls or
                                  man and woman coming together. And, as it is, each Soul will be guided
                                  through repeated experience by divine guidance until It finds this true
                                  love, the love of ECK through the Mahanta. You can be spiritually as
                                  well as physically married to a mate only when the old accounts of both
                                  have been balanced, and old complications set up through mistakes of
                                  the past have been worked out. (p. 115)
                                  >
                                  > (My guess is that someone revised the original DWTM manuscript
                                  since the ECK (all caps) trademark didn't come about until 1968 and the
                                  Mahanta term didn't come into vogue until 1969; whereas the DWTM
                                  manuscript was reportedly written in 1956!)
                                  >
                                  > Now I remember (I think it was in The Tiger's Fang, Or was it The
                                  Eck-Vidya?) some Soul Mates controversy in Eckankar history where I
                                  believe Harold Klemp and Eckankar had to "correct" what Paul Twitchell
                                  earlier wrote. It was no longer about two people coming together, but a
                                  person finding (in so many words) their own "higher self".
                                  >
                                  > I haven't finished checking all the references to Soul Mates in
                                  all of Paul's books, so don't just go on what I quoted from DWTM.
                                  >
                                  > ***
                                  >
                                  > Btw, my Yahoo has been bouncing since Nov. 28 so I've been out of
                                  the loop since then and hadn't received any posts via email. Just now
                                  are catching up.
                                  >
                                  > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
                                  "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Hello Non eckchains and All,
                                  > > The Soulmate theory
                                  > > phenomena is an interesting
                                  > > spiritual perspective
                                  > > and is, actually, unlimited
                                  > > by conventional New Age
                                  > > thought. Eckankar (PT)
                                  > > reinvented it with a
                                  > > Twin-Soul perspective.
                                  > > This is interesting, but
                                  > > IMO it shouldn't be limited
                                  > > to or by PT's "Twin" Soul
                                  > > view and a single pairing
                                  > > only.
                                  > >
                                  > > Thus, the connection that
                                  > > some/many Souls have with
                                  > > one another (IMO) s/b referred
                                  > > to in the plural. Thus, Soulmates
                                  > > is more than one pairing.
                                  > > Unfortunately, for Eckists,
                                  > > Klemp has them locked into
                                  > > a "Twin" concept when there
                                  > > are Triplets and many more!
                                  > > This phenomena can be
                                  > > a special connection/attraction
                                  > > with lifelong friends, as well,
                                  > > and not always be with sexual
                                  > > partners.
                                  > >
                                  > > As far as Klemp's fraud
                                  > > and his "frownish and fakish"
                                  > > H.I.'s, well, that's to be
                                  > > expected when they emulate
                                  > > HK's own behaviour via clues
                                  > > with the way the EK hierarchy
                                  > > is run or the way in which
                                  > > he speaks/refers to Joan and/
                                  > > or tells his stories.
                                  > >
                                  > > With Klemp there's a lack
                                  > > of forgiveness, compassion,
                                  > > and empathy. These are
                                  > > missing from Klemp's own
                                  > > perspectives in his own life
                                  > > stories.
                                  > >
                                  > > It's easy for him to judge
                                  > > others and point out flaws
                                  > > or to add "insight" and to
                                  > > do EK tweaks on the letters
                                  > > sent to him. And, that's
                                  > > what Klemp does when
                                  > > he "writes" in his hermit
                                  > > batty cave.
                                  > >
                                  > > Thus, many of HK's RESAs
                                  > > emulate his lack of empathy,
                                  > > compassion, and forgiveness.
                                  > > They talk a lot about "love"
                                  > > but when it comes to the
                                  > > business/spiritual side of
                                  > > Eckankar and the "Guidelines,"
                                  > > as set forth by HK via the
                                  > > ESC, there is not much room
                                  > > leftover for the byproducts
                                  > > of love.
                                  > >
                                  > > Look at the way the Higher
                                  > > initiations are handed out.
                                  > > There are always strings
                                  > > attached and it has more
                                  > > to do with "Outer" posturing
                                  > > and faking it with physical
                                  > > requirements. What is said
                                  > > or isn't said to the RESA
                                  > > or done as a volunteer,
                                  > > than with anything else
                                  > > or with one's visible goodness,
                                  > > has more importance in
                                  > > deciding who gets a pink
                                  > > slip. It's not love for God.
                                  > > Long-time Eckists who
                                  > > are loyal and loving and
                                  > > are very nice people are
                                  > > excluded from becoming
                                  > > H.I.s because they haven't
                                  > > jumped through enough
                                  > > physical hoops of training,
                                  > > retraining, volunteering, etc.
                                  > >
                                  > > Or, maybe they didn't seem
                                  > > like a 'take charge" leader
                                  > > or have a college education
                                  > > and/or were high profile
                                  > > professionals. It's amazing
                                  > > how petty RESAs can be,
                                  > > and these people are the
                                  > > "righthand" of Klemp.
                                  > >
                                  > > In truth, many people who
                                  > > left Eckankar did so out of
                                  > > frustration caused via neglect
                                  > > and unloving behavior towards
                                  > > them. Once you've become
                                  > > a member their main goal
                                  > > has been achieved. From
                                  > > there they dangle the carrot
                                  > > for the higher initiations
                                  > > and, now, make it very
                                  > > difficult to achieve the 7th.
                                  > > Eckists need to become
                                  > > ESAs to become RESAs
                                  > > and unless you're already
                                  > > an ESA it's, now, much
                                  > > more difficult to achieve.
                                  > > And, for a 6th ESA to get
                                  > > the 7th they, usually, need
                                  > > to become a RESA.
                                  > >
                                  > > Thus, Klemp slowed-down
                                  > > Initiations in 1985 due to
                                  > > Darwin making 500 new
                                  > > 5ths before leaving office.
                                  > > So, more that 25 years later
                                  > > what is Klemp's excuse for
                                  > > not making more H.I.s and
                                  > > for not expanding the "outer"
                                  > > initiations and their numbers?
                                  > >
                                  > > It's actually a simple/obvious
                                  > > explanation. Klemp is selfish.
                                  > >
                                  > > Klemp's lack of empathy,
                                  > > compassion, forgiveness and
                                  > > real, true love for his fellow
                                  > > eckists, and the trickle-down
                                  > > effect within the EK Hierarchy,
                                  > > is why Eckankar and ECKists
                                  > > are broken and lost. Their
                                  > > delusional faith and fellowship
                                  > > (it's a numbers game) is
                                  > > what they cling to as do
                                  > > all religionists. Yet, as with
                                  > > all religionists, their faith
                                  > > has the only chosen ones
                                  > > who have been gifted with
                                  > > special insight into God
                                  > > (or whatever name they use).
                                  > > EK is simply more of the same
                                  > > but tweaked to fit a special
                                  > > New Age/Metaphysical mindset.
                                  > > It's the Easy Way until those,
                                  > > now, with less than 30 plus
                                  > > years want a 6th or 7th
                                  > > initiation.
                                  > >
                                  > > Prometheus
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > "Non" eckchains wrote:
                                  > > I agree with a lot of what you have said here. I don't quite
                                  get the Soulmate
                                  > > though. I have been met with mostly great difficulty in
                                  actualizing this, even
                                  > > though it sounds quite nice. I am open to experiencing this,
                                  yet I am also
                                  > > naturally intuitive and also he who questions a lot and
                                  enjoys experimenting and
                                  > > investigating. Most people I meet are into holding tight to
                                  their beliefs and
                                  > > don't like being around someone like me, if I am just being
                                  myself. For some
                                  > > reason I ruffle feathers so maybe that means I need to stay
                                  away from certain
                                  > > Birds. :) I don't know the answer.
                                  > >
                                  > > As far as the sound current. My experience has been dreams of
                                  beautiful music
                                  > > sometimes, but also just feeling. Not everyone is musical.
                                  The sound current and
                                  > > light may actually be too limiting. It is based on our two
                                  most used human
                                  > > senses, seeing and hearing. There is so much more richness
                                  involved. We are
                                  > > lacking in our sense of smell and there are other senses that
                                  other animals know
                                  > > and experience that make us look like idiots sometimes.
                                  Humans are very arrogant
                                  > > because of our superior ability to manipulate our
                                  environment, something that if
                                  > > unchecked can and does cause great havoc, destruction and
                                  killing just to kill.
                                  > >
                                  > > Feeling and intuition is very under rated. Feelings allow us
                                  to have compassion
                                  > > and empathy. That is a vibration I wish there was more of.
                                  People don't like it,
                                  > > because it also means that we may have to relate to the pain
                                  of another, or to
                                  > > our own pain. People are too hardened IMHO. At the same time,
                                  bless the ones who
                                  > > act out of compassion to advocate and fight those who are
                                  indifferent to at
                                  > > least living with some level of a little empathy. I think
                                  they have compassion
                                  > > in them, it is just repressed, and imo is always pushing to
                                  express. I dare say,
                                  > > that even klemp and his HI's are so frownish and fakish,
                                  because that is how you
                                  > > repress feelings and natural compassion. It is harder for
                                  humans, because we are
                                  > > more self-aware. Native American life often at least had
                                  sacred rituals for
                                  > > killing to eat. We are lost..... Light and sound meditations
                                  may just be a
                                  > > distraction and limiting us from our Whole Being. We cannot
                                  cut off a part of
                                  > > ourselves and Be our Whole Being, imo.
                                  > >
                                  > > Non ; )
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > <prometheus wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Hello Tyson, Russ, and All,
                                  > > > I believe that religious myth
                                  > > > was created to explain away
                                  > > > the phenomenal, and that
                                  > > > religion was created in order
                                  > > > to control the masses and,
                                  > > > thus, use this undertaking
                                  > > > for money, power, greed,
                                  > > > status and other self-benefits
                                  > > > for the hierarchies.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > The Blue Light/Blue Star?
                                  > > > The human mind/brain
                                  > > > functions similarly and
                                  > > > when attention is placed
                                  > > > upon subjects this produces
                                  > > > chemical and electrical
                                  > > > reactions. There are even
                                  > > > mixed but similar responses
                                  > > > to unconscious stimuli.
                                  > > > But many people realize
                                  > > > all of this but tend to
                                  > > > forget it when seeking
                                  > > > "spiritual" answers.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > People should not have
                                  > > > faith in the words of
                                  > > > others. People should
                                  > > > No Longer give others
                                  > > > 'the benefit of the doubt.'
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Yes, we can look at what
                                  > > > principles they are sharing
                                  > > > in order to help us to
                                  > > > achieve a greater realization
                                  > > > but we should not limit
                                  > > > ourselves from going
                                  > > > beyond the realizations
                                  > > > and achievements in
                                  > > > higher consciousness
                                  > > > of those we view as
                                  > > > ideals/icons.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Thus, the concept of
                                  > > > "Master" needs to be
                                  > > > revised and eliminated.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > When the lessons have
                                  > > > been taught, via real
                                  > > > world examples of
                                  > > > living, it then becomes
                                  > > > our responsibility
                                  > > > to demonstrate what
                                  > > > we have learned as
                                  > > > it pertains to our
                                  > > > own unique individual
                                  > > > personality and
                                  > > > circumstances. We
                                  > > > move-on and into
                                  > > > our own unrestricted
                                  > > > conscious awareness.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > IMHO- Jesus, and not
                                  > > > always his apostles,
                                  > > > taught some really
                                  > > > advanced concepts.
                                  > > > Too advanced for
                                  > > > most of us today!
                                  > > >
                                  > > > I'll never forget this
                                  > > > one Fung Fu episode
                                  > > > where Cain ran into
                                  > > > some religious fanatics
                                  > > > who would not defend
                                  > > > themselves and would
                                  > > > turn the other cheek.
                                  > > > Cain showed them that
                                  > > > there was a third response.
                                  > > > Instead of becoming
                                  > > > a victim of violence,
                                  > > > or responding with
                                  > > > violence Cain stopped/
                                  > > > blocked the violence
                                  > > > i.e. punch or object
                                  > > > and redirected its
                                  > > > intended path.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Anyway, I've heard
                                  > > > sounds when first
                                  > > > starting to mediate
                                  > > > via TM. Everyone
                                  > > > heard these tones.
                                  > > > Generally the mind
                                  > > > blocks out these
                                  > > > background noises
                                  > > > until it quiets down
                                  > > > and empties itself.
                                  > > > Actually, one can
                                  > > > follow these sounds
                                  > > > without placing
                                  > > > too much attention
                                  > > > on them. That's the
                                  > > > trick. One doesn't
                                  > > > place attention or
                                  > > > attachment on any
                                  > > > thought, imaginary
                                  > > > vision or sound no
                                  > > > matter how pleasant.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Eventually, this will
                                  > > > produce other by-
                                  > > > products of awareness
                                  > > > such as contentment.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > I have to say that one
                                  > > > must discover their
                                  > > > own reality. Don't take
                                  > > > my word for anything.
                                  > > > Divine Awareness is
                                  > > > an individual experience
                                  > > > and not a group path.
                                  > > > I called it "Divine Awareness"
                                  > > > in oder to give this
                                  > > > private and personal
                                  > > > Discovery by Soul a
                                  > > > special designation.
                                  > > > By referring to the
                                  > > > uniqueness of the
                                  > > > individual experience
                                  > > > as 'Soul' does likewise.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > I will have to say that
                                  > > > I've had help in validating
                                  > > > that there is a Reality
                                  > > > beyond the scientific
                                  > > > explanations and that
                                  > > > of religious dogma.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > I can only say that
                                  > > > the Soulmate concept
                                  > > > (IMO) is real in that
                                  > > > it helps these Souls
                                  > > > to form a special
                                  > > > bond in order to merge
                                  > > > and harmonize their
                                  > > > vibrations and to better
                                  > > > 'tune-in' to glimpses
                                  > > > of, perhaps, our true
                                  > > > origins and potential
                                  > > > but also of this Here
                                  > > > and Now.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Prometheus
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > "Tyson" wrote:
                                  > > > The sound current, bani,
                                  > > > shabd or nam is real.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > There is no religion that
                                  > > > can claim it as there own.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > What is fiction is the
                                  > > > dependance on a master
                                  > > > that is created by religions
                                  > > > of the light and sound.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Only one initiation is
                                  > > > important.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Yet faith in a past master
                                  > > > such as Christ, Krishna
                                  > > > or Guru Nanak is just as
                                  > > > valid.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > There is no mahanta.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > The blue star is no
                                  > > > other than a manifestation
                                  > > > created by a meeting
                                  > > > between the holy spirit
                                  > > > and ones higher self
                                  > > > (soul).
                                  > > >
                                  > > > For Harold to claim to
                                  > > > be the blue star is a
                                  > > > way to snare the gullible.
                                  > > > He is no more the blue
                                  > > > star than the second
                                  > > > coming of christ.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > I had heard the rushing
                                  > > > wind as a member of
                                  > > > eckankar so I wrongly
                                  > > > believed that this path
                                  > > > must be true.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > It was meditation on
                                  > > > the third eye that brought
                                  > > > the rushing wind, not
                                  > > > Klemp.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Eckankar was taken from
                                  > > > the Sihk word Ek Ong Kar.
                                  > > > Ek Ong Kar means one
                                  > > > divine energy permeates
                                  > > > all things.
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Russ wrote:
                                  > > > > I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is
                                  ex eckist, interviewing
                                  > > > David Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > > One of the interviewees, a man made a statement,
                                  paraphrasing here, that in
                                  > > > his mind it doesn't matter where the writings of
                                  eckankar come from because he
                                  > > > is finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it's
                                  more important to have
                                  > > a
                                  > > > connection with the sound current.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > I used to have that exact point of view. What
                                  changed for me?
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > One thing I used to feel good about when talking
                                  about eck was this idea
                                  > > that
                                  > > > it has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was
                                  synonymous with the
                                  > > sound
                                  > > > current.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored
                                  for a decade, after
                                  > > > becoming a 5th. I could no longer ignore this
                                  dissonance, caused by the
                                  > > > plaigarism and ultimately this had led to me dropping
                                  out of eckankar.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > I have a question concerning the sound current. I
                                  experience this sound,
                                  > > > sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous to
                                  my study of eck.
                                  > > Maybe
                                  > > > it isn't important, where you read about it, if you take
                                  it as a principle and
                                  > > > work with it.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Do you folks think the sound current is bogus?
                                  Delusions?
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > This is an interesting point because I am
                                  interested in truth...
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion,
                                  good work. But this by
                                  > > > itself doesn't go to the underlying issues concerning
                                  the question, "What is
                                  > > the
                                  > > > Truth regarding the idea of the sound current as a way
                                  of connection with the
                                  > > > Divine??"
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Thanks,
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Russ
                                  > >
                                  >
                                • prometheus_973
                                  Hello Etznab and All, Yes, it makes me suspicious of any religious dogma that degrades women. Just how spiritual and advanced can it really be? It s Not!
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Dec 10, 2012
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Hello Etznab and All,
                                    Yes, it makes me suspicious
                                    of any religious dogma that
                                    degrades women. Just how
                                    "spiritual" and advanced
                                    can it really be? It's Not!

                                    But, since the Boy's Clubs
                                    of the World seem to run
                                    things it's no wonder this
                                    anti-female crap is written
                                    in all religious dogma.

                                    Sant Mat, which Twitchell
                                    "borrowed from" was no
                                    more advanced than all
                                    other "spiritual" sources
                                    that Twitchell used to
                                    "Compile" his male chauvinist
                                    dogma. Those male/female
                                    atoms and positive/negative
                                    batteries where the LEM
                                    has to be a male because
                                    women can't handle the
                                    Rod of Power is pure fiction.
                                    This is such a stupid ekplanation
                                    that you have to be brain-
                                    washed to believe it. BTW-
                                    I wonder what the "Rod"
                                    really symbolizes?

                                    Anyway, this is one more
                                    topic of PT's, and of Klemp's,
                                    that doesn't get closer
                                    scrutiny nor is it ever discussed
                                    using logic, common sense,
                                    or intellect. Actually, it's
                                    never discussed because
                                    there's no point right or
                                    wrong, the case is closed!
                                    Remember, HK has said,
                                    "Eckankar is a hierarchy
                                    and not a Democracy." But,
                                    isn't our government both
                                    a hierarchy and a democracy?

                                    Since Klemp claims to be
                                    imperfect and points out
                                    that Twitchell exaggerated
                                    shouldn't PT's Male requirement
                                    for the LEM position be revisited,
                                    investigated, and explained?

                                    Are there any EKists who
                                    are doctors, engineers or
                                    scientists? I'd like them to
                                    explain how the neg/pos
                                    male/female battery thing
                                    works with the physical body
                                    and why one needs to be
                                    a male in order to be the
                                    LEM in the Lower Planes,
                                    especially, here on earth!

                                    Prometheus

                                    etznab wrote:
                                    I find it suspect whenever the female is downgraded in comparison with
                                    the male. In The Tiger's Fang (according to Lord Alakh Lok?):

                                    "There is more to this law than just the issues which have been given
                                    here. No Soul can enter into the worlds above the plane of Sat Lok
                                    without being complete within itself - without having both completed
                                    the cycle of balance and entering into the oneness with its other self,
                                    and both gaining the traits of the other .... and in the end, as it is
                                    said, becoming the male or original Soul as God first put on earth.
                                    This Soul had the qualities which God wanted, but could not be
                                    manifested unless Soul was split into two particular particles, the
                                    negative and the positive, for both to develop." (pp. 85-86)

                                    My comments:

                                    As it is said? Lord Alakh Lok says "as it is said"?

                                    I wonder, Did Paul Twitchell come up with this stuff from Radhasoami
                                    doctrine? Quoting:

                                    "The higher centres in a female form are less capable of being
                                    developed than in a male form. All the centres of Pind, Brahmand and
                                    Dayal Desh do exist in a woman as they do in man. But the centres
                                    higher than Sunn or Daswan Dwar cannot ordinarily be awakened in a
                                    woman. Hence, the highest point to which the spirit or Surat in a
                                    female can rise, is the Daswan Dwar. For higher ascension, the same
                                    Surat or spirit will have to take birth as a man, and perform the
                                    spiritual exercises for awakening higher centres. [... .]"

                                    http://www.rsfaith.org/images/stories/RSFBooks/English/Holy_Epistols_Part_5/holy\
                                    _epistols_part_5_1.html

                                    Both versions on the subject are highly suspect, IMO. I think people
                                    probably butchered an older form of a story that subsequently took on
                                    Frankenstein form.

                                    I think there are two more sections about Soul Mates that I came across
                                    recently, both from Dialogues With The Master, at least one version of
                                    which appears to be from appropriated text.



                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...>


                                    I agree. But I also think that most New Age thinking is absurd because
                                    it is baseless and without evidence. The soul concept cannot be proven,
                                    let alone the soulmate idea.

                                    --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer
                                    <jepfeiffer@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > I can't view the concept of a soulmate being two parts of a whole
                                    no matter where it comes from. I don't believe any of us are half of
                                    a whole. Maybe Paul needed that concept as a reason for why he fell
                                    for Gail.ÂÂ
                                    >
                                    etznab wrote:

                                    >
                                    > I don't believe Paul Twitchell reinvented the Soul Mates thing. It
                                    looks to me more like he plagiarized, or paraphrased about it (adding
                                    his own spin as well, under the guise of Eck Masters, etc.). But hey,
                                    Eckankar is not a cult and it's against spiritual law to push one's
                                    beliefs on another :) If you don't believe me just read the FAQ section
                                    on Eckankar's web site. Look for the question: Is Eckankar a cult?
                                    >
                                    > ***
                                    >
                                    > There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book, Dialogues With The
                                    Master (1970), called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.
                                    >
                                    > Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness (first published in
                                    1913?) - and compare the text with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to
                                    Paul Twitchell in Dialogues With The Master.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up
                                    >
                                    >
                                    http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNo\
                                    mad.pdf
                                    >
                                    > ***
                                    >
                                    > Remember that controversial subject of Soul Mates which appeared
                                    in Paul Twitche;ll's earlier books (I thought it was TTF, but here is
                                    something in DWTM)?
                                    >
                                    > Ali Nomad:
                                    >
                                    > Each and every SOUL, therefore, has its spiritual counterpart--its
                                    "other half," with which it unites on the spiritual plane, when the
                                    time comes for attainment of immortality.
                                    >
                                    > Lord Sohang:
                                    >
                                    > "Each and every Soul, therefore, in the lower worlds has its
                                    spiritual counterpart - its other half with which it unites on the
                                    spiritual plane, when the time comes for the attainment of the highest
                                    goal of the world of Brahm and that counterpart is the ECK Spirit."
                                    (DWTM p. 176)
                                    >
                                    >
                                    https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!searchin/alt.religion.eck\
                                    ankar/soul$20mates|sort:date/alt.religion.eckankar/9_e16rhw3gA/3VmvQQ811QsJ
                                    >
                                    > Now of course it depends on who Paul Twitchell is plagiarizing, as
                                    the information can vary. It can even appear contradictory. Example:
                                    >
                                    > [...] But unless the union has already been made in heaven through
                                    pure love, the physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness,
                                    for like all true sacraments it must be entered into and registered
                                    upon all planes. (p. 220)

                                    > The Law of Divine Love will bring to each Soul its true marriage,
                                    a union in perfect purity on all planes. This according to the one
                                    life-theory is of course impossible for all; but since reincarnation is
                                    a fact, the Soul, through repeated experiences, learns to follow its
                                    Divine Guidance, hence will ultimately find its true mate. But they can
                                    be spiritually as well as physically married to their mates only when
                                    the old accounts of both have been balanced and the old complications
                                    set up through the mistakes of the past have been worked out. [... .].
                                    (p. 221)
                                    >
                                    > The Voice Of Isis And Realms Of The Living Dead, by Harriett
                                    Augusta Curtiss
                                    >
                                    >
                                    http://archive.org/stream/TheVoiceOfIsis2ndEdition/CurtissFhAndHaTheVoiceOfIsis2\
                                    ndEdition_djvu.txt
                                    >
                                    > Rebazar Tarzs in DWTM:
                                    >
                                    > "Now for the part of union between man and woman. Unless this
                                    union has been made on the higher planes through pure thought, the
                                    physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness, for like all
                                    true sacraments it must be entered into and registered upon all planes.
                                    > "The law of divine love will bring to each Soul Its true marriage
                                    and union in perfect purity on all planes. This true marriage is that
                                    of Soul with the ECK - the polarization of each Soul - not two Souls or
                                    man and woman coming together. And, as it is, each Soul will be guided
                                    through repeated experience by divine guidance until It finds this true
                                    love, the love of ECK through the Mahanta. You can be spiritually as
                                    well as physically married to a mate only when the old accounts of both
                                    have been balanced, and old complications set up through mistakes of
                                    the past have been worked out. (p. 115)
                                    >
                                    > (My guess is that someone revised the original DWTM manuscript
                                    since the ECK (all caps) trademark didn't come about until 1968 and the
                                    Mahanta term didn't come into vogue until 1969; whereas the DWTM
                                    manuscript was reportedly written in 1956!)
                                    >
                                    > Now I remember (I think it was in The Tiger's Fang, Or was it The
                                    Eck-Vidya?) some Soul Mates controversy in Eckankar history where I
                                    believe Harold Klemp and Eckankar had to "correct" what Paul Twitchell
                                    earlier wrote. It was no longer about two people coming together, but a
                                    person finding (in so many words) their own "higher self".
                                    >
                                    > I haven't finished checking all the references to Soul Mates in
                                    all of Paul's books, so don't just go on what I quoted from DWTM.
                                    >
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