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Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the Sound Current?

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  • Tyson
    ... The sound current,bani,shabd or nam is real. There is no religion that can claim it as there own. What is fiction is the dependance on a master that is
    Message 1 of 22 , Nov 30, 2012
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      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "russrodnick" <russrodnick@...> wrote:
      >
      > I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is ex eckist, interviewing David Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.
      > One of the interviewees, a man made a statement, paraphrasing here, that in his mind it doesn't matter where the writings of eckankar come from because he is finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it's more important to have a connection with the sound current.
      >
      > I used to have that exact point of view. What changed for me?
      >
      > One thing I used to feel good about when talking about eck was this idea that it has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was synonymous with the sound current.
      >
      > It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored for a decade, after becoming a 5th. I could no longer ignore this dissonance, caused by the plaigarism and ultimately this had led to me dropping out of eckankar.
      >
      > I have a question concerning the sound current. I experience this sound, sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous to my study of eck. Maybe it isn't important, where you read about it, if you take it as a principle and work with it.
      >
      > Do you folks think the sound current is bogus? Delusions?
      >
      > This is an interesting point because I am interested in truth...
      >
      > BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion, good work. But this by itself doesn't go to the underlying issues concerning the question, "What is the Truth regarding the idea of the sound current as a way of connection with the Divine??"
      >
      > Thanks,
      >
      > Russ
      >
      The sound current,bani,shabd or nam is real. There is no religion that can claim it as there own. What is fiction is the dependance on a master that is created by religions of the light and sound. Only one initiation is important. Yet faith in a past master such as Christ,Krishna or Guru Nanak is just as valid. There is no mahanta. The blue star is no other than a manifestation created by a meeting between the holy spirit and ones higher self(soul). For Harold to claim to be the blue star is a way to snare the gullible. He is no more the blue star than the second coming of christ. I had heard the rushing wind as a member of eckankar so I wrongly believed that this path must be true. It was meditation on the third eye that brought the rushing wind,not Klemp. Eckankar was taken from the Sihk word Ek Ong Kar. Ek Ong Kar means one divine energy permeates all things.
    • prometheus_973
      Hello Tyson, Russ, and All, I believe that religious myth was created to explain away the phenomenal, and that religion was created in order to control the
      Message 2 of 22 , Nov 30, 2012
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        Hello Tyson, Russ, and All,
        I believe that religious myth
        was created to explain away
        the phenomenal, and that
        religion was created in order
        to control the masses and,
        thus, use this undertaking
        for money, power, greed,
        status and other self-benefits
        for the hierarchies.

        The Blue Light/Blue Star?
        The human mind/brain
        functions similarly and
        when attention is placed
        upon subjects this produces
        chemical and electrical
        reactions. There are even
        mixed but similar responses
        to unconscious stimuli.
        But many people realize
        all of this but tend to
        forget it when seeking
        "spiritual" answers.

        People should not have
        faith in the words of
        others. People should
        No Longer give others
        'the benefit of the doubt.'

        Yes, we can look at what
        principles they are sharing
        in order to help us to
        achieve a greater realization
        but we should not limit
        ourselves from going
        beyond the realizations
        and achievements in
        higher consciousness
        of those we view as
        ideals/icons.

        Thus, the concept of
        "Master" needs to be
        revised and eliminated.

        When the lessons have
        been taught, via real
        world examples of
        living, it then becomes
        our responsibility
        to demonstrate what
        we have learned as
        it pertains to our
        own unique individual
        personality and
        circumstances. We
        move-on and into
        our own unrestricted
        conscious awareness.

        IMHO- Jesus, and not
        always his apostles,
        taught some really
        advanced concepts.
        Too advanced for
        most of us today!

        I'll never forget this
        one Fung Fu episode
        where Cain ran into
        some religious fanatics
        who would not defend
        themselves and would
        turn the other cheek.
        Cain showed them that
        there was a third response.
        Instead of becoming
        a victim of violence,
        or responding with
        violence Cain stopped/
        blocked the violence
        i.e. punch or object
        and redirected its
        intended path.

        Anyway, I've heard
        sounds when first
        starting to mediate
        via TM. Everyone
        heard these tones.
        Generally the mind
        blocks out these
        background noises
        until it quiets down
        and empties itself.
        Actually, one can
        follow these sounds
        without placing
        too much attention
        on them. That's the
        trick. One doesn't
        place attention or
        attachment on any
        thought, imaginary
        vision or sound no
        matter how pleasant.

        Eventually, this will
        produce other by-
        products of awareness
        such as contentment.

        I have to say that one
        must discover their
        own reality. Don't take
        my word for anything.
        Divine Awareness is
        an individual experience
        and not a group path.
        I called it "Divine Awareness"
        in oder to give this
        private and personal
        Discovery by Soul a
        special designation.
        By referring to the
        uniqueness of the
        individual experience
        as 'Soul' does likewise.

        I will have to say that
        I've had help in validating
        that there is a Reality
        beyond the scientific
        explanations and that
        of religious dogma.

        I can only say that
        the Soulmate concept
        (IMO) is real in that
        it helps these Souls
        to form a special
        bond in order to merge
        and harmonize their
        vibrations and to better
        'tune-in' to glimpses
        of, perhaps, our true
        origins and potential
        but also of this Here
        and Now.

        Prometheus


        "Tyson" wrote:
        The sound current, bani,
        shabd or nam is real.

        There is no religion that
        can claim it as there own.

        What is fiction is the
        dependance on a master
        that is created by religions
        of the light and sound.

        Only one initiation is
        important.

        Yet faith in a past master
        such as Christ, Krishna
        or Guru Nanak is just as
        valid.

        There is no mahanta.

        The blue star is no
        other than a manifestation
        created by a meeting
        between the holy spirit
        and ones higher self
        (soul).

        For Harold to claim to
        be the blue star is a
        way to snare the gullible.
        He is no more the blue
        star than the second
        coming of christ.

        I had heard the rushing
        wind as a member of
        eckankar so I wrongly
        believed that this path
        must be true.

        It was meditation on
        the third eye that brought
        the rushing wind, not
        Klemp.

        Eckankar was taken from
        the Sihk word Ek Ong Kar.
        Ek Ong Kar means one
        divine energy permeates
        all things.


        Russ wrote:
        > I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is ex eckist, interviewing
        David Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.

        > One of the interviewees, a man made a statement, paraphrasing here, that in
        his mind it doesn't matter where the writings of eckankar come from because he
        is finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it's more important to have a
        connection with the sound current.
        >
        > I used to have that exact point of view. What changed for me?
        >
        > One thing I used to feel good about when talking about eck was this idea that
        it has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was synonymous with the sound
        current.
        >
        > It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored for a decade, after
        becoming a 5th. I could no longer ignore this dissonance, caused by the
        plaigarism and ultimately this had led to me dropping out of eckankar.
        >
        > I have a question concerning the sound current. I experience this sound,
        sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous to my study of eck. Maybe
        it isn't important, where you read about it, if you take it as a principle and
        work with it.
        >
        > Do you folks think the sound current is bogus? Delusions?
        >
        > This is an interesting point because I am interested in truth...
        >
        > BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion, good work. But this by
        itself doesn't go to the underlying issues concerning the question, "What is the
        Truth regarding the idea of the sound current as a way of connection with the
        Divine??"
        >
        > Thanks,
        >
        > Russ
        >
      • Non
        I agree with a lot of what you have said here. I don t quite get the Soulmate though. I have been met with mostly great difficulty in actualizing this, even
        Message 3 of 22 , Dec 4, 2012
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          I agree with a lot of what you have said here. I don't quite get the Soulmate though. I have been met with mostly great difficulty in actualizing this, even though it sounds quite nice. I am open to experiencing this, yet I am also naturally intuitive and also he who questions a lot and enjoys experimenting and investigating. Most people I meet are into holding tight to their beliefs and don't like being around someone like me, if I am just being myself. For some reason I ruffle feathers so maybe that means I need to stay away from certain Birds. :) I don't know the answer.

          As far as the sound current. My experience has been dreams of beautiful music sometimes, but also just feeling. Not everyone is musical. The sound current and light may actually be too limiting. It is based on our two most used human senses, seeing and hearing. There is so much more richness involved. We are lacking in our sense of smell and there are other senses that other animals know and experience that make us look like idiots sometimes. Humans are very arrogant because of our superior ability to manipulate our environment, something that if unchecked can and does cause great havoc, destruction and killing just to kill.

          Feeling and intuition is very under rated. Feelings allow us to have compassion and empathy. That is a vibration I wish there was more of. People don't like it, because it also means that we may have to relate to the pain of another, or to our own pain. People are too hardened IMHO. At the same time, bless the ones who act out of compassion to advocate and fight those who are indifferent to at least living with some level of a little empathy. I think they have compassion in them, it is just repressed, and imo is always pushing to express. I dare say, that even klemp and his HI's are so frownish and fakish, because that is how you repress feelings and natural compassion. It is harder for humans, because we are more self-aware. Native American life often at least had sacred rituals for killing to eat. We are lost..... Light and sound meditations may just be a distraction and limiting us from our Whole Being. We cannot cut off a part of ourselves and Be our Whole Being, imo.

          Non ; )

          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello Tyson, Russ, and All,
          > I believe that religious myth
          > was created to explain away
          > the phenomenal, and that
          > religion was created in order
          > to control the masses and,
          > thus, use this undertaking
          > for money, power, greed,
          > status and other self-benefits
          > for the hierarchies.
          >
          > The Blue Light/Blue Star?
          > The human mind/brain
          > functions similarly and
          > when attention is placed
          > upon subjects this produces
          > chemical and electrical
          > reactions. There are even
          > mixed but similar responses
          > to unconscious stimuli.
          > But many people realize
          > all of this but tend to
          > forget it when seeking
          > "spiritual" answers.
          >
          > People should not have
          > faith in the words of
          > others. People should
          > No Longer give others
          > 'the benefit of the doubt.'
          >
          > Yes, we can look at what
          > principles they are sharing
          > in order to help us to
          > achieve a greater realization
          > but we should not limit
          > ourselves from going
          > beyond the realizations
          > and achievements in
          > higher consciousness
          > of those we view as
          > ideals/icons.
          >
          > Thus, the concept of
          > "Master" needs to be
          > revised and eliminated.
          >
          > When the lessons have
          > been taught, via real
          > world examples of
          > living, it then becomes
          > our responsibility
          > to demonstrate what
          > we have learned as
          > it pertains to our
          > own unique individual
          > personality and
          > circumstances. We
          > move-on and into
          > our own unrestricted
          > conscious awareness.
          >
          > IMHO- Jesus, and not
          > always his apostles,
          > taught some really
          > advanced concepts.
          > Too advanced for
          > most of us today!
          >
          > I'll never forget this
          > one Fung Fu episode
          > where Cain ran into
          > some religious fanatics
          > who would not defend
          > themselves and would
          > turn the other cheek.
          > Cain showed them that
          > there was a third response.
          > Instead of becoming
          > a victim of violence,
          > or responding with
          > violence Cain stopped/
          > blocked the violence
          > i.e. punch or object
          > and redirected its
          > intended path.
          >
          > Anyway, I've heard
          > sounds when first
          > starting to mediate
          > via TM. Everyone
          > heard these tones.
          > Generally the mind
          > blocks out these
          > background noises
          > until it quiets down
          > and empties itself.
          > Actually, one can
          > follow these sounds
          > without placing
          > too much attention
          > on them. That's the
          > trick. One doesn't
          > place attention or
          > attachment on any
          > thought, imaginary
          > vision or sound no
          > matter how pleasant.
          >
          > Eventually, this will
          > produce other by-
          > products of awareness
          > such as contentment.
          >
          > I have to say that one
          > must discover their
          > own reality. Don't take
          > my word for anything.
          > Divine Awareness is
          > an individual experience
          > and not a group path.
          > I called it "Divine Awareness"
          > in oder to give this
          > private and personal
          > Discovery by Soul a
          > special designation.
          > By referring to the
          > uniqueness of the
          > individual experience
          > as 'Soul' does likewise.
          >
          > I will have to say that
          > I've had help in validating
          > that there is a Reality
          > beyond the scientific
          > explanations and that
          > of religious dogma.
          >
          > I can only say that
          > the Soulmate concept
          > (IMO) is real in that
          > it helps these Souls
          > to form a special
          > bond in order to merge
          > and harmonize their
          > vibrations and to better
          > 'tune-in' to glimpses
          > of, perhaps, our true
          > origins and potential
          > but also of this Here
          > and Now.
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
          >
          > "Tyson" wrote:
          > The sound current, bani,
          > shabd or nam is real.
          >
          > There is no religion that
          > can claim it as there own.
          >
          > What is fiction is the
          > dependance on a master
          > that is created by religions
          > of the light and sound.
          >
          > Only one initiation is
          > important.
          >
          > Yet faith in a past master
          > such as Christ, Krishna
          > or Guru Nanak is just as
          > valid.
          >
          > There is no mahanta.
          >
          > The blue star is no
          > other than a manifestation
          > created by a meeting
          > between the holy spirit
          > and ones higher self
          > (soul).
          >
          > For Harold to claim to
          > be the blue star is a
          > way to snare the gullible.
          > He is no more the blue
          > star than the second
          > coming of christ.
          >
          > I had heard the rushing
          > wind as a member of
          > eckankar so I wrongly
          > believed that this path
          > must be true.
          >
          > It was meditation on
          > the third eye that brought
          > the rushing wind, not
          > Klemp.
          >
          > Eckankar was taken from
          > the Sihk word Ek Ong Kar.
          > Ek Ong Kar means one
          > divine energy permeates
          > all things.
          >
          >
          > Russ wrote:
          > > I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is ex eckist, interviewing
          > David Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.
          >
          > > One of the interviewees, a man made a statement, paraphrasing here, that in
          > his mind it doesn't matter where the writings of eckankar come from because he
          > is finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it's more important to have a
          > connection with the sound current.
          > >
          > > I used to have that exact point of view. What changed for me?
          > >
          > > One thing I used to feel good about when talking about eck was this idea that
          > it has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was synonymous with the sound
          > current.
          > >
          > > It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored for a decade, after
          > becoming a 5th. I could no longer ignore this dissonance, caused by the
          > plaigarism and ultimately this had led to me dropping out of eckankar.
          > >
          > > I have a question concerning the sound current. I experience this sound,
          > sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous to my study of eck. Maybe
          > it isn't important, where you read about it, if you take it as a principle and
          > work with it.
          > >
          > > Do you folks think the sound current is bogus? Delusions?
          > >
          > > This is an interesting point because I am interested in truth...
          > >
          > > BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion, good work. But this by
          > itself doesn't go to the underlying issues concerning the question, "What is the
          > Truth regarding the idea of the sound current as a way of connection with the
          > Divine??"
          > >
          > > Thanks,
          > >
          > > Russ
          > >
          >
        • prometheus_973
          Hello Non eckchains and All, The Soulmate theory phenomena is an interesting spiritual perspective and is, actually, unlimited by conventional New Age thought.
          Message 4 of 22 , Dec 4, 2012
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            Hello Non eckchains and All,
            The Soulmate theory
            phenomena is an interesting
            spiritual perspective
            and is, actually, unlimited
            by conventional New Age
            thought. Eckankar (PT)
            reinvented it with a
            Twin-Soul perspective.
            This is interesting, but
            IMO it shouldn't be limited
            to or by PT's "Twin" Soul
            view and a single pairing
            only.

            Thus, the connection that
            some/many Souls have with
            one another (IMO) s/b referred
            to in the plural. Thus, Soulmates
            is more than one pairing.
            Unfortunately, for Eckists,
            Klemp has them locked into
            a "Twin" concept when there
            are Triplets and many more!
            This phenomena can be
            a special connection/attraction
            with lifelong friends, as well,
            and not always be with sexual
            partners.

            As far as Klemp's fraud
            and his "frownish and fakish"
            H.I.'s, well, that's to be
            expected when they emulate
            HK's own behaviour via clues
            with the way the EK hierarchy
            is run or the way in which
            he speaks/refers to Joan and/
            or tells his stories.

            With Klemp there's a lack
            of forgiveness, compassion,
            and empathy. These are
            missing from Klemp's own
            perspectives in his own life
            stories.

            It's easy for him to judge
            others and point out flaws
            or to add "insight" and to
            do EK tweaks on the letters
            sent to him. And, that's
            what Klemp does when
            he "writes" in his hermit
            batty cave.

            Thus, many of HK's RESAs
            emulate his lack of empathy,
            compassion, and forgiveness.
            They talk a lot about "love"
            but when it comes to the
            business/spiritual side of
            Eckankar and the "Guidelines,"
            as set forth by HK via the
            ESC, there is not much room
            leftover for the byproducts
            of love.

            Look at the way the Higher
            initiations are handed out.
            There are always strings
            attached and it has more
            to do with "Outer" posturing
            and faking it with physical
            requirements. What is said
            or isn't said to the RESA
            or done as a volunteer,
            than with anything else
            or with one's visible goodness,
            has more importance in
            deciding who gets a pink
            slip. It's not love for God.
            Long-time Eckists who
            are loyal and loving and
            are very nice people are
            excluded from becoming
            H.I.s because they haven't
            jumped through enough
            physical hoops of training,
            retraining, volunteering, etc.

            Or, maybe they didn't seem
            like a 'take charge" leader
            or have a college education
            and/or were high profile
            professionals. It's amazing
            how petty RESAs can be,
            and these people are the
            "righthand" of Klemp.

            In truth, many people who
            left Eckankar did so out of
            frustration caused via neglect
            and unloving behavior towards
            them. Once you've become
            a member their main goal
            has been achieved. From
            there they dangle the carrot
            for the higher initiations
            and, now, make it very
            difficult to achieve the 7th.
            Eckists need to become
            ESAs to become RESAs
            and unless you're already
            an ESA it's, now, much
            more difficult to achieve.
            And, for a 6th ESA to get
            the 7th they, usually, need
            to become a RESA.

            Thus, Klemp slowed-down
            Initiations in 1985 due to
            Darwin making 500 new
            5ths before leaving office.
            So, more that 25 years later
            what is Klemp's excuse for
            not making more H.I.s and
            for not expanding the "outer"
            initiations and their numbers?

            It's actually a simple/obvious
            explanation. Klemp is selfish.

            Klemp's lack of empathy,
            compassion, forgiveness and
            real, true love for his fellow
            eckists, and the trickle-down
            effect within the EK Hierarchy,
            is why Eckankar and ECKists
            are broken and lost. Their
            delusional faith and fellowship
            (it's a numbers game) is
            what they cling to as do
            all religionists. Yet, as with
            all religionists, their faith
            has the only chosen ones
            who have been gifted with
            special insight into God
            (or whatever name they use).
            EK is simply more of the same
            but tweaked to fit a special
            New Age/Metaphysical mindset.
            It's the Easy Way until those,
            now, with less than 30 plus
            years want a 6th or 7th
            initiation.

            Prometheus


            "Non" eckchains wrote:
            I agree with a lot of what you have said here. I don't quite get the Soulmate
            though. I have been met with mostly great difficulty in actualizing this, even
            though it sounds quite nice. I am open to experiencing this, yet I am also
            naturally intuitive and also he who questions a lot and enjoys experimenting and
            investigating. Most people I meet are into holding tight to their beliefs and
            don't like being around someone like me, if I am just being myself. For some
            reason I ruffle feathers so maybe that means I need to stay away from certain
            Birds. :) I don't know the answer.

            As far as the sound current. My experience has been dreams of beautiful music
            sometimes, but also just feeling. Not everyone is musical. The sound current and
            light may actually be too limiting. It is based on our two most used human
            senses, seeing and hearing. There is so much more richness involved. We are
            lacking in our sense of smell and there are other senses that other animals know
            and experience that make us look like idiots sometimes. Humans are very arrogant
            because of our superior ability to manipulate our environment, something that if
            unchecked can and does cause great havoc, destruction and killing just to kill.

            Feeling and intuition is very under rated. Feelings allow us to have compassion
            and empathy. That is a vibration I wish there was more of. People don't like it,
            because it also means that we may have to relate to the pain of another, or to
            our own pain. People are too hardened IMHO. At the same time, bless the ones who
            act out of compassion to advocate and fight those who are indifferent to at
            least living with some level of a little empathy. I think they have compassion
            in them, it is just repressed, and imo is always pushing to express. I dare say,
            that even klemp and his HI's are so frownish and fakish, because that is how you
            repress feelings and natural compassion. It is harder for humans, because we are
            more self-aware. Native American life often at least had sacred rituals for
            killing to eat. We are lost..... Light and sound meditations may just be a
            distraction and limiting us from our Whole Being. We cannot cut off a part of
            ourselves and Be our Whole Being, imo.

            Non ; )


            <prometheus wrote:
            >
            > Hello Tyson, Russ, and All,
            > I believe that religious myth
            > was created to explain away
            > the phenomenal, and that
            > religion was created in order
            > to control the masses and,
            > thus, use this undertaking
            > for money, power, greed,
            > status and other self-benefits
            > for the hierarchies.
            >
            > The Blue Light/Blue Star?
            > The human mind/brain
            > functions similarly and
            > when attention is placed
            > upon subjects this produces
            > chemical and electrical
            > reactions. There are even
            > mixed but similar responses
            > to unconscious stimuli.
            > But many people realize
            > all of this but tend to
            > forget it when seeking
            > "spiritual" answers.
            >
            > People should not have
            > faith in the words of
            > others. People should
            > No Longer give others
            > 'the benefit of the doubt.'
            >
            > Yes, we can look at what
            > principles they are sharing
            > in order to help us to
            > achieve a greater realization
            > but we should not limit
            > ourselves from going
            > beyond the realizations
            > and achievements in
            > higher consciousness
            > of those we view as
            > ideals/icons.
            >
            > Thus, the concept of
            > "Master" needs to be
            > revised and eliminated.
            >
            > When the lessons have
            > been taught, via real
            > world examples of
            > living, it then becomes
            > our responsibility
            > to demonstrate what
            > we have learned as
            > it pertains to our
            > own unique individual
            > personality and
            > circumstances. We
            > move-on and into
            > our own unrestricted
            > conscious awareness.
            >
            > IMHO- Jesus, and not
            > always his apostles,
            > taught some really
            > advanced concepts.
            > Too advanced for
            > most of us today!
            >
            > I'll never forget this
            > one Fung Fu episode
            > where Cain ran into
            > some religious fanatics
            > who would not defend
            > themselves and would
            > turn the other cheek.
            > Cain showed them that
            > there was a third response.
            > Instead of becoming
            > a victim of violence,
            > or responding with
            > violence Cain stopped/
            > blocked the violence
            > i.e. punch or object
            > and redirected its
            > intended path.
            >
            > Anyway, I've heard
            > sounds when first
            > starting to mediate
            > via TM. Everyone
            > heard these tones.
            > Generally the mind
            > blocks out these
            > background noises
            > until it quiets down
            > and empties itself.
            > Actually, one can
            > follow these sounds
            > without placing
            > too much attention
            > on them. That's the
            > trick. One doesn't
            > place attention or
            > attachment on any
            > thought, imaginary
            > vision or sound no
            > matter how pleasant.
            >
            > Eventually, this will
            > produce other by-
            > products of awareness
            > such as contentment.
            >
            > I have to say that one
            > must discover their
            > own reality. Don't take
            > my word for anything.
            > Divine Awareness is
            > an individual experience
            > and not a group path.
            > I called it "Divine Awareness"
            > in oder to give this
            > private and personal
            > Discovery by Soul a
            > special designation.
            > By referring to the
            > uniqueness of the
            > individual experience
            > as 'Soul' does likewise.
            >
            > I will have to say that
            > I've had help in validating
            > that there is a Reality
            > beyond the scientific
            > explanations and that
            > of religious dogma.
            >
            > I can only say that
            > the Soulmate concept
            > (IMO) is real in that
            > it helps these Souls
            > to form a special
            > bond in order to merge
            > and harmonize their
            > vibrations and to better
            > 'tune-in' to glimpses
            > of, perhaps, our true
            > origins and potential
            > but also of this Here
            > and Now.
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            >
            > "Tyson" wrote:
            > The sound current, bani,
            > shabd or nam is real.
            >
            > There is no religion that
            > can claim it as there own.
            >
            > What is fiction is the
            > dependance on a master
            > that is created by religions
            > of the light and sound.
            >
            > Only one initiation is
            > important.
            >
            > Yet faith in a past master
            > such as Christ, Krishna
            > or Guru Nanak is just as
            > valid.
            >
            > There is no mahanta.
            >
            > The blue star is no
            > other than a manifestation
            > created by a meeting
            > between the holy spirit
            > and ones higher self
            > (soul).
            >
            > For Harold to claim to
            > be the blue star is a
            > way to snare the gullible.
            > He is no more the blue
            > star than the second
            > coming of christ.
            >
            > I had heard the rushing
            > wind as a member of
            > eckankar so I wrongly
            > believed that this path
            > must be true.
            >
            > It was meditation on
            > the third eye that brought
            > the rushing wind, not
            > Klemp.
            >
            > Eckankar was taken from
            > the Sihk word Ek Ong Kar.
            > Ek Ong Kar means one
            > divine energy permeates
            > all things.
            >
            >
            > Russ wrote:
            > > I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is ex eckist, interviewing
            > David Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.
            >
            > > One of the interviewees, a man made a statement, paraphrasing here, that in
            > his mind it doesn't matter where the writings of eckankar come from because he
            > is finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it's more important to have
            a
            > connection with the sound current.
            > >
            > > I used to have that exact point of view. What changed for me?
            > >
            > > One thing I used to feel good about when talking about eck was this idea
            that
            > it has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was synonymous with the
            sound
            > current.
            > >
            > > It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored for a decade, after
            > becoming a 5th. I could no longer ignore this dissonance, caused by the
            > plaigarism and ultimately this had led to me dropping out of eckankar.
            > >
            > > I have a question concerning the sound current. I experience this sound,
            > sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous to my study of eck.
            Maybe
            > it isn't important, where you read about it, if you take it as a principle and
            > work with it.
            > >
            > > Do you folks think the sound current is bogus? Delusions?
            > >
            > > This is an interesting point because I am interested in truth...
            > >
            > > BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion, good work. But this by
            > itself doesn't go to the underlying issues concerning the question, "What is
            the
            > Truth regarding the idea of the sound current as a way of connection with the
            > Divine??"
            > >
            > > Thanks,
            > >
            > > Russ
          • Janice Pfeiffer
            I too agree with Prometheus.  He and I have formed a lot of the same concepts it seems.  As far as the soul mate thing, Non, I don t think it is something
            Message 5 of 22 , Dec 4, 2012
            • 0 Attachment
              I too agree with Prometheus.  He and I have formed a lot of the same concepts it seems.  As far as the soul mate thing, Non, I don't think it is something you can make.  You are just fortunate when you meet some one that feels like an echo from the past.  You just know that you know them and you know so much about each other with out knowing how you know when you first meet.  My soul mate is gone now but we had something right from the start that couldn't be explained in words.  We could speak in half sentences and have perfect understanding.  He knew my thoughts and could feel my feelings.  He knew what I liked with out being told.  We could enjoy silence and not need to talk.  There was just something very real between us that didn't come from the present and didn't make logical sense in the physical world.  I do hope that at some point, you know what I am saying.  It is a very precious thing to have.  Maybe everyone doesn't have it in every life time.  It is true that you do express yourself sometimes in a some what abrasive manner but you also show a lot of insight at times and I have seen a lot of compassion in what you say also at times.  In your search, it would help if maybe you weren't quite so blunt with those you don't know well.  Wouldn't it be terrible if you chased a way the very one who does know you but because of a sharp initial few words, doesn't have a chance to take a good look and see that?  My experience when meeting people face to face is if there is a strong pull or a strong repulsion, it most likely does mean, you've known them before.  Sometimes it helps to just stand still and let the other person show you who they are.  About holding on to beliefs; I find religious people need to do that whereas spiritual people tend to change theirs as they evolve with more understanding.  That's what caused most of us to get into eckankar and what caused most of us to get out.  I use to feel angry about the lies but now I even feel a little gratitude for eckanar.  I never was one to accept things at face value and I usually wasn't fooled easily but I certainly was by eckankar.  It was a real experience.  It changed my life.  Not in the way, they intended maybe but I am now stronger, even more independent and I now know for the rest of my life, I can never be a part of any organized religious group again.  I think part of the reason I got into eckankar is I thought I needed to find those who were like me and I hoped that was it.  It wasn't but I thought I needed it to be.  Now I know I don't need that.  That's what it taught me.  Through it, I learned something of value about myself so it was a worthwhile experience.  Good luck with your search.  I hope you find just what you want.  Oh, don't forget to stand still; don't rush it and don't push it away.  Sound current and senses is another story for me so I won't comment now.  Again, all the best to you now and always. 
              --- On Tue, 12/4/12, Non <eckchains@...> wrote:

              From: Non <eckchains@...>
              Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the Sound Current?
              To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Tuesday, December 4, 2012, 9:28 AM

               
              I agree with a lot of what you have said here. I don't quite get the Soulmate though. I have been met with mostly great difficulty in actualizing this, even though it sounds quite nice. I am open to experiencing this, yet I am also naturally intuitive and also he who questions a lot and enjoys experimenting and investigating. Most people I meet are into holding tight to their beliefs and don't like being around someone like me, if I am just being myself. For some reason I ruffle feathers so maybe that means I need to stay away from certain Birds. :) I don't know the answer.

              As far as the sound current. My experience has been dreams of beautiful music sometimes, but also just feeling. Not everyone is musical. The sound current and light may actually be too limiting. It is based on our two most used human senses, seeing and hearing. There is so much more richness involved. We are lacking in our sense of smell and there are other senses that other animals know and experience that make us look like idiots sometimes. Humans are very arrogant because of our superior ability to manipulate our environment, something that if unchecked can and does cause great havoc, destruction and killing just to kill.

              Feeling and intuition is very under rated. Feelings allow us to have compassion and empathy. That is a vibration I wish there was more of. People don't like it, because it also means that we may have to relate to the pain of another, or to our own pain. People are too hardened IMHO. At the same time, bless the ones who act out of compassion to advocate and fight those who are indifferent to at least living with some level of a little empathy. I think they have compassion in them, it is just repressed, and imo is always pushing to express. I dare say, that even klemp and his HI's are so frownish and fakish, because that is how you repress feelings and natural compassion. It is harder for humans, because we are more self-aware. Native American life often at least had sacred rituals for killing to eat. We are lost..... Light and sound meditations may just be a distraction and limiting us from our Whole Being. We cannot cut off a part of ourselves and Be our Whole Being, imo.

              Non ; )

              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hello Tyson, Russ, and All,
              > I believe that religious myth
              > was created to explain away
              > the phenomenal, and that
              > religion was created in order
              > to control the masses and,
              > thus, use this undertaking
              > for money, power, greed,
              > status and other self-benefits
              > for the hierarchies.
              >
              > The Blue Light/Blue Star?
              > The human mind/brain
              > functions similarly and
              > when attention is placed
              > upon subjects this produces
              > chemical and electrical
              > reactions. There are even
              > mixed but similar responses
              > to unconscious stimuli.
              > But many people realize
              > all of this but tend to
              > forget it when seeking
              > "spiritual" answers.
              >
              > People should not have
              > faith in the words of
              > others. People should
              > No Longer give others
              > 'the benefit of the doubt.'
              >
              > Yes, we can look at what
              > principles they are sharing
              > in order to help us to
              > achieve a greater realization
              > but we should not limit
              > ourselves from going
              > beyond the realizations
              > and achievements in
              > higher consciousness
              > of those we view as
              > ideals/icons.
              >
              > Thus, the concept of
              > "Master" needs to be
              > revised and eliminated.
              >
              > When the lessons have
              > been taught, via real
              > world examples of
              > living, it then becomes
              > our responsibility
              > to demonstrate what
              > we have learned as
              > it pertains to our
              > own unique individual
              > personality and
              > circumstances. We
              > move-on and into
              > our own unrestricted
              > conscious awareness.
              >
              > IMHO- Jesus, and not
              > always his apostles,
              > taught some really
              > advanced concepts.
              > Too advanced for
              > most of us today!
              >
              > I'll never forget this
              > one Fung Fu episode
              > where Cain ran into
              > some religious fanatics
              > who would not defend
              > themselves and would
              > turn the other cheek.
              > Cain showed them that
              > there was a third response.
              > Instead of becoming
              > a victim of violence,
              > or responding with
              > violence Cain stopped/
              > blocked the violence
              > i.e. punch or object
              > and redirected its
              > intended path.
              >
              > Anyway, I've heard
              > sounds when first
              > starting to mediate
              > via TM. Everyone
              > heard these tones.
              > Generally the mind
              > blocks out these
              > background noises
              > until it quiets down
              > and empties itself.
              > Actually, one can
              > follow these sounds
              > without placing
              > too much attention
              > on them. That's the
              > trick. One doesn't
              > place attention or
              > attachment on any
              > thought, imaginary
              > vision or sound no
              > matter how pleasant.
              >
              > Eventually, this will
              > produce other by-
              > products of awareness
              > such as contentment.
              >
              > I have to say that one
              > must discover their
              > own reality. Don't take
              > my word for anything.
              > Divine Awareness is
              > an individual experience
              > and not a group path.
              > I called it "Divine Awareness"
              > in oder to give this
              > private and personal
              > Discovery by Soul a
              > special designation.
              > By referring to the
              > uniqueness of the
              > individual experience
              > as 'Soul' does likewise.
              >
              > I will have to say that
              > I've had help in validating
              > that there is a Reality
              > beyond the scientific
              > explanations and that
              > of religious dogma.
              >
              > I can only say that
              > the Soulmate concept
              > (IMO) is real in that
              > it helps these Souls
              > to form a special
              > bond in order to merge
              > and harmonize their
              > vibrations and to better
              > 'tune-in' to glimpses
              > of, perhaps, our true
              > origins and potential
              > but also of this Here
              > and Now.
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              >
              > "Tyson" wrote:
              > The sound current, bani,
              > shabd or nam is real.
              >
              > There is no religion that
              > can claim it as there own.
              >
              > What is fiction is the
              > dependance on a master
              > that is created by religions
              > of the light and sound.
              >
              > Only one initiation is
              > important.
              >
              > Yet faith in a past master
              > such as Christ, Krishna
              > or Guru Nanak is just as
              > valid.
              >
              > There is no mahanta.
              >
              > The blue star is no
              > other than a manifestation
              > created by a meeting
              > between the holy spirit
              > and ones higher self
              > (soul).
              >
              > For Harold to claim to
              > be the blue star is a
              > way to snare the gullible.
              > He is no more the blue
              > star than the second
              > coming of christ.
              >
              > I had heard the rushing
              > wind as a member of
              > eckankar so I wrongly
              > believed that this path
              > must be true.
              >
              > It was meditation on
              > the third eye that brought
              > the rushing wind, not
              > Klemp.
              >
              > Eckankar was taken from
              > the Sihk word Ek Ong Kar.
              > Ek Ong Kar means one
              > divine energy permeates
              > all things.
              >
              >
              > Russ wrote:
              > > I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is ex eckist, interviewing
              > David Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.
              >
              > > One of the interviewees, a man made a statement, paraphrasing here, that in
              > his mind it doesn't matter where the writings of eckankar come from because he
              > is finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it's more important to have a
              > connection with the sound current.
              > >
              > > I used to have that exact point of view. What changed for me?
              > >
              > > One thing I used to feel good about when talking about eck was this idea that
              > it has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was synonymous with the sound
              > current.
              > >
              > > It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored for a decade, after
              > becoming a 5th. I could no longer ignore this dissonance, caused by the
              > plaigarism and ultimately this had led to me dropping out of eckankar.
              > >
              > > I have a question concerning the sound current. I experience this sound,
              > sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous to my study of eck. Maybe
              > it isn't important, where you read about it, if you take it as a principle and
              > work with it.
              > >
              > > Do you folks think the sound current is bogus? Delusions?
              > >
              > > This is an interesting point because I am interested in truth...
              > >
              > > BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion, good work. But this by
              > itself doesn't go to the underlying issues concerning the question, "What is the
              > Truth regarding the idea of the sound current as a way of connection with the
              > Divine??"
              > >
              > > Thanks,
              > >
              > > Russ
              > >
              >

            • Non
              Janice, I just have to say, that in person I am very shy and soft spoken, it s just that what I say may be disagreeable as it is often to the point, even if I
              Message 6 of 22 , Dec 5, 2012
              • 0 Attachment
                Janice, I just have to say, that in person I am very shy and soft spoken, it's just that what I say may be disagreeable as it is often to the point, even if I try to express it gently. A friend of mine once sent me a card that said "It is better to be hated for who you are than loved for who you are not." My writing style is different than how I speak. I actually speak slowly and often have problems with people who talk fast. Actually, my main problem might be that in person I am afraid to simply be who I am. I am very sensitive to most people I meet, to a fault and spend more time listening, when I should probably be more spontaneous and even abrasive.

                I think you are only seeing one side of me, as I express myself more directly in some of these blogs, and yes I hold in some anger that is more easily expressed in writing. I still have a problem with wanting to trust the cons too much, and yes getting taken. There seems to be more people than I remember who are callous and mean these days. Maybe hard times do that to people. I'm actually too nice in person, but it is based on both a sense of compassion as well as some guilt about my right to just be who I am. Sometimes it is OK to be just plain rude imo and not nice all the time, especially if someone is trying to push their arrogant, dogmatic spirituality/religion onto you.

                Non ;)

                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer <jepfeiffer@...> wrote:
                >
                > I too agree with Prometheus.  He and I have formed a lot of the same concepts it seems.  As far as the soul mate thing, Non, I don't think it is something you can make.  You are just fortunate when you meet some one that feels like an echo from the past.  You just know that you know them and you know so much about each other with out knowing how you know when you first meet.  My soul mate is gone now but we had something right from the start that couldn't be explained in words.  We could speak in half sentences and have perfect understanding.  He knew my thoughts and could feel my feelings.  He knew what I liked with out being told.  We could enjoy silence and not need to talk.  There was just something very real between us that didn't come from the present and didn't make logical sense in the physical world.  I do hope that at some point, you know what I am saying.  It is a very precious thing to have.  Maybe everyone doesn't have it in
                > every life time.  It is true that you do express yourself sometimes in a some what abrasive manner but you also show a lot of insight at times and I have seen a lot of compassion in what you say also at times.  In your search, it would help if maybe you weren't quite so blunt with those you don't know well.  Wouldn't it be terrible if you chased a way the very one who does know you but because of a sharp initial few words, doesn't have a chance to take a good look and see that?  My experience when meeting people face to face is if there is a strong pull or a strong repulsion, it most likely does mean, you've known them before.  Sometimes it helps to just stand still and let the other person show you who they are.  About holding on to beliefs; I find religious people need to do that whereas spiritual people tend to change theirs as they evolve with more understanding.  That's what caused most of us to get into eckankar and what caused most of us
                > to get out.  I use to feel angry about the lies but now I even feel a little gratitude for eckanar.  I never was one to accept things at face value and I usually wasn't fooled easily but I certainly was by eckankar.  It was a real experience.  It changed my life.  Not in the way, they intended maybe but I am now stronger, even more independent and I now know for the rest of my life, I can never be a part of any organized religious group again.  I think part of the reason I got into eckankar is I thought I needed to find those who were like me and I hoped that was it.  It wasn't but I thought I needed it to be.  Now I know I don't need that.  That's what it taught me.  Through it, I learned something of value about myself so it was a worthwhile experience.  Good luck with your search.  I hope you find just what you want.  Oh, don't forget to stand still; don't rush it and don't push it away.  Sound current and senses is another story for me
                > so I won't comment now.  Again, all the best to you now and always. 
                > --- On Tue, 12/4/12, Non <eckchains@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > From: Non <eckchains@...>
                > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the Sound Current?
                > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                > Date: Tuesday, December 4, 2012, 9:28 AM
                >
                >
                >
                >  
                >
                >
                >
                > I agree with a lot of what you have said here. I don't quite get the Soulmate though. I have been met with mostly great difficulty in actualizing this, even though it sounds quite nice. I am open to experiencing this, yet I am also naturally intuitive and also he who questions a lot and enjoys experimenting and investigating. Most people I meet are into holding tight to their beliefs and don't like being around someone like me, if I am just being myself. For some reason I ruffle feathers so maybe that means I need to stay away from certain Birds. :) I don't know the answer.
                >
                > As far as the sound current. My experience has been dreams of beautiful music sometimes, but also just feeling. Not everyone is musical. The sound current and light may actually be too limiting. It is based on our two most used human senses, seeing and hearing. There is so much more richness involved. We are lacking in our sense of smell and there are other senses that other animals know and experience that make us look like idiots sometimes. Humans are very arrogant because of our superior ability to manipulate our environment, something that if unchecked can and does cause great havoc, destruction and killing just to kill.
                >
                > Feeling and intuition is very under rated. Feelings allow us to have compassion and empathy. That is a vibration I wish there was more of. People don't like it, because it also means that we may have to relate to the pain of another, or to our own pain. People are too hardened IMHO. At the same time, bless the ones who act out of compassion to advocate and fight those who are indifferent to at least living with some level of a little empathy. I think they have compassion in them, it is just repressed, and imo is always pushing to express. I dare say, that even klemp and his HI's are so frownish and fakish, because that is how you repress feelings and natural compassion. It is harder for humans, because we are more self-aware. Native American life often at least had sacred rituals for killing to eat. We are lost..... Light and sound meditations may just be a distraction and limiting us from our Whole Being. We cannot cut off a part of ourselves and Be our
                > Whole Being, imo.
                >
                > Non ; )
                >
                > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Hello Tyson, Russ, and All,
                > > I believe that religious myth
                > > was created to explain away
                > > the phenomenal, and that
                > > religion was created in order
                > > to control the masses and,
                > > thus, use this undertaking
                > > for money, power, greed,
                > > status and other self-benefits
                > > for the hierarchies.
                > >
                > > The Blue Light/Blue Star?
                > > The human mind/brain
                > > functions similarly and
                > > when attention is placed
                > > upon subjects this produces
                > > chemical and electrical
                > > reactions. There are even
                > > mixed but similar responses
                > > to unconscious stimuli.
                > > But many people realize
                > > all of this but tend to
                > > forget it when seeking
                > > "spiritual" answers.
                > >
                > > People should not have
                > > faith in the words of
                > > others. People should
                > > No Longer give others
                > > 'the benefit of the doubt.'
                > >
                > > Yes, we can look at what
                > > principles they are sharing
                > > in order to help us to
                > > achieve a greater realization
                > > but we should not limit
                > > ourselves from going
                > > beyond the realizations
                > > and achievements in
                > > higher consciousness
                > > of those we view as
                > > ideals/icons.
                > >
                > > Thus, the concept of
                > > "Master" needs to be
                > > revised and eliminated.
                > >
                > > When the lessons have
                > > been taught, via real
                > > world examples of
                > > living, it then becomes
                > > our responsibility
                > > to demonstrate what
                > > we have learned as
                > > it pertains to our
                > > own unique individual
                > > personality and
                > > circumstances. We
                > > move-on and into
                > > our own unrestricted
                > > conscious awareness.
                > >
                > > IMHO- Jesus, and not
                > > always his apostles,
                > > taught some really
                > > advanced concepts.
                > > Too advanced for
                > > most of us today!
                > >
                > > I'll never forget this
                > > one Fung Fu episode
                > > where Cain ran into
                > > some religious fanatics
                > > who would not defend
                > > themselves and would
                > > turn the other cheek.
                > > Cain showed them that
                > > there was a third response.
                > > Instead of becoming
                > > a victim of violence,
                > > or responding with
                > > violence Cain stopped/
                > > blocked the violence
                > > i.e. punch or object
                > > and redirected its
                > > intended path.
                > >
                > > Anyway, I've heard
                > > sounds when first
                > > starting to mediate
                > > via TM. Everyone
                > > heard these tones.
                > > Generally the mind
                > > blocks out these
                > > background noises
                > > until it quiets down
                > > and empties itself.
                > > Actually, one can
                > > follow these sounds
                > > without placing
                > > too much attention
                > > on them. That's the
                > > trick. One doesn't
                > > place attention or
                > > attachment on any
                > > thought, imaginary
                > > vision or sound no
                > > matter how pleasant.
                > >
                > > Eventually, this will
                > > produce other by-
                > > products of awareness
                > > such as contentment.
                > >
                > > I have to say that one
                > > must discover their
                > > own reality. Don't take
                > > my word for anything.
                > > Divine Awareness is
                > > an individual experience
                > > and not a group path.
                > > I called it "Divine Awareness"
                > > in oder to give this
                > > private and personal
                > > Discovery by Soul a
                > > special designation.
                > > By referring to the
                > > uniqueness of the
                > > individual experience
                > > as 'Soul' does likewise.
                > >
                > > I will have to say that
                > > I've had help in validating
                > > that there is a Reality
                > > beyond the scientific
                > > explanations and that
                > > of religious dogma.
                > >
                > > I can only say that
                > > the Soulmate concept
                > > (IMO) is real in that
                > > it helps these Souls
                > > to form a special
                > > bond in order to merge
                > > and harmonize their
                > > vibrations and to better
                > > 'tune-in' to glimpses
                > > of, perhaps, our true
                > > origins and potential
                > > but also of this Here
                > > and Now.
                > >
                > > Prometheus
                > >
                > >
                > > "Tyson" wrote:
                > > The sound current, bani,
                > > shabd or nam is real.
                > >
                > > There is no religion that
                > > can claim it as there own.
                > >
                > > What is fiction is the
                > > dependance on a master
                > > that is created by religions
                > > of the light and sound.
                > >
                > > Only one initiation is
                > > important.
                > >
                > > Yet faith in a past master
                > > such as Christ, Krishna
                > > or Guru Nanak is just as
                > > valid.
                > >
                > > There is no mahanta.
                > >
                > > The blue star is no
                > > other than a manifestation
                > > created by a meeting
                > > between the holy spirit
                > > and ones higher self
                > > (soul).
                > >
                > > For Harold to claim to
                > > be the blue star is a
                > > way to snare the gullible.
                > > He is no more the blue
                > > star than the second
                > > coming of christ.
                > >
                > > I had heard the rushing
                > > wind as a member of
                > > eckankar so I wrongly
                > > believed that this path
                > > must be true.
                > >
                > > It was meditation on
                > > the third eye that brought
                > > the rushing wind, not
                > > Klemp.
                > >
                > > Eckankar was taken from
                > > the Sihk word Ek Ong Kar.
                > > Ek Ong Kar means one
                > > divine energy permeates
                > > all things.
                > >
                > >
                > > Russ wrote:
                > > > I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is ex eckist, interviewing
                > > David Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.
                > >
                > > > One of the interviewees, a man made a statement, paraphrasing here, that in
                > > his mind it doesn't matter where the writings of eckankar come from because he
                > > is finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it's more important to have a
                > > connection with the sound current.
                > > >
                > > > I used to have that exact point of view. What changed for me?
                > > >
                > > > One thing I used to feel good about when talking about eck was this idea that
                > > it has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was synonymous with the sound
                > > current.
                > > >
                > > > It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored for a decade, after
                > > becoming a 5th. I could no longer ignore this dissonance, caused by the
                > > plaigarism and ultimately this had led to me dropping out of eckankar.
                > > >
                > > > I have a question concerning the sound current. I experience this sound,
                > > sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous to my study of eck. Maybe
                > > it isn't important, where you read about it, if you take it as a principle and
                > > work with it.
                > > >
                > > > Do you folks think the sound current is bogus? Delusions?
                > > >
                > > > This is an interesting point because I am interested in truth...
                > > >
                > > > BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion, good work. But this by
                > > itself doesn't go to the underlying issues concerning the question, "What is the
                > > Truth regarding the idea of the sound current as a way of connection with the
                > > Divine??"
                > > >
                > > > Thanks,
                > > >
                > > > Russ
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • prometheus_973
                Hello All, Here s more info on Soulmates, but from a Jewish perspective. As you can see all one needs to do is some tweaking, as PT did with Sant Mat, and
                Message 7 of 22 , Dec 6, 2012
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                  Hello All,
                  Here's more info on Soulmates,
                  but from a Jewish perspective.
                  As you can see all one needs
                  to do is some tweaking, as
                  PT did with Sant Mat, and voilà!

                  However, this is the half +
                  half = whole (Soul) perspective.

                  Then, again, there's a
                  mention of reincarnation
                  and the one soul coming
                  back to help the other
                  soul complete their mission,
                  although, the other soul
                  has difficulty (is punished,
                  via karma?) in finding this
                  returning soulmate.

                  It seems that the Soulmate
                  concept is used by some
                  religions and is overlooked
                  by others. But the fact that
                  religions even address it,
                  much less define it with
                  such limitations, tends
                  to invalidate it for many
                  people, and validates it,
                  in some way, for others.


                  "Kabbalah teaches that a soul's heavenly source has male and female halves.

                  There is no doubt that the "compatible helper" [paraphrasing Gen. 2:18] that G-d has intended for a man may assist him in his task. Yet, there is much more to it than that. A single person is unable to complete the rectification that he is to perform in this world. A soul's heavenly source has male and female halves, which are incarnated into the world as a man and a woman. The incarnation of the two does not necessarily occur simultaneously. As a result, only when the man and woman are righteous do they attain the privilege to meet and wed their real soulmate.

                  By means of three steps of the marriage ceremony, the three main levels of a man's soul…become bound to those of his wife….

                  Until marriage, however, a man continues to be a half soul. By means of three steps of the marriage ceremony, the three main levels of a man's soul, the Nefesh, the Ruach and the Neshama, become bound to those of his wife, and they both become one being, with one joint spiritual structure.

                  Consequently, each spouse may only reach spiritual fulfillment and perfection by means of their union, when their lives are conducted with purity.

                  Even when the man and woman who get married are not real soulmates - which is often the case in our time - they have to accomplish together a rectification that was assigned to them in Heaven. Sometimes, per divine decree, a person is unable to find a compatible mate. It is nevertheless the unmarried person's duty to keep trying to find a spouse, for one may only reach one's spiritual potential through marriage, and a decree may change at any time that the person achieves whatever rectification is personally required before he can find a mate.

                  His soulmate is allowed to incarnate with him…in order to help him….

                  When a man comes into this world without a heavy debt to rectify, he may meet his soulmate and marry her without much effort. The Ari cites the case of a man who sins and has to reincarnate, whereas his soulmate has completed her task in this world and has no further need of incarnation. (Shaar HaGilgulim, 20) In special cases, his soulmate is allowed to incarnate with him, and she will came back to this world with him in order to help him. When the time comes for him to get married, however, he will not find her effortlessly as in the first case, but after an intense search and struggle. Since he reincarnated because of a sin he committed, the Accusers on high speak against him; they want him to be prevented from meeting her, on the grounds that he does not deserve it. So they spread animosity between the couple and they later quarrel. That is why it is written that making couples is as difficult as splitting the Red Sea!

                  [Translated by Simcha Benyosef]"



                  prometheus_wrote:
                  >
                  > Hello Non eckchains and All,
                  > The Soulmate theory
                  > phenomena is an interesting
                  > spiritual perspective
                  > and is, actually, unlimited
                  > by conventional New Age
                  > thought. Eckankar (PT)
                  > reinvented it with a
                  > Twin-Soul perspective.
                  > This is interesting, but
                  > IMO it shouldn't be limited
                  > to or by PT's "Twin" Soul
                  > view and a single pairing
                  > only.
                  >
                  > Thus, the connection that
                  > some/many Souls have with
                  > one another (IMO) s/b referred
                  > to in the plural. Thus, Soulmates
                  > is more than one pairing.
                  > Unfortunately, for Eckists,
                  > Klemp has them locked into
                  > a "Twin" concept when there
                  > are Triplets and many more!
                  > This phenomena can be
                  > a special connection/attraction
                  > with lifelong friends, as well,
                  > and not always be with sexual
                  > partners.
                  >
                  > As far as Klemp's fraud
                  > and his "frownish and fakish"
                  > H.I.'s, well, that's to be
                  > expected when they emulate
                  > HK's own behaviour via clues
                  > with the way the EK hierarchy
                  > is run or the way in which
                  > he speaks/refers to Joan and/
                  > or tells his stories.
                  >
                  > With Klemp there's a lack
                  > of forgiveness, compassion,
                  > and empathy. These are
                  > missing from Klemp's own
                  > perspectives in his own life
                  > stories.
                  >
                  > It's easy for HK to judge
                  > others and point out flaws
                  > or to add "insight" and to
                  > do EK tweaks on the letters
                  > sent to him. And, that's
                  > what Klemp does when
                  > he "writes" in his hermit
                  > batty cave.
                  >
                  > Thus, many of HK's RESAs
                  > emulate his lack of empathy,
                  > compassion, and forgiveness.
                  > They talk a lot about "love"
                  > but when it comes to the
                  > business/spiritual side of
                  > Eckankar and the "Guidelines,"
                  > as set forth by HK via the
                  > ESC, there is not much room
                  > leftover for the byproducts
                  > of love.
                  >
                  > Look at the way the Higher
                  > initiations are handed out.
                  > There are always strings
                  > attached and it has more
                  > to do with "Outer" posturing
                  > and faking it with physical
                  > requirements. What is said,
                  > or isn't said, to the RESA
                  > or done as a volunteer,
                  > has more weight than
                  > anything else, like one's
                  > visible goodness. The
                  > superficial has more
                  > importance in deciding
                  > who gets a pink slip than
                  > demonstrating a love for
                  > God.
                  >
                  > Long-time Eckists who
                  > are loyal and loving and
                  > are very nice people are
                  > excluded from becoming
                  > H.I.s because they haven't
                  > jumped through enough
                  > physical hoops of training,
                  > retraining, volunteering, etc.
                  > Or, maybe they didn't seem
                  > like a 'take charge" leader
                  > or have a college education
                  > and/or were high profile
                  > professionals.
                  >
                  > It's amazing how petty
                  > RESAs can be, and these
                  > people are the "righthand"
                  > of Klemp.
                  >
                  > In truth, many people who
                  > left Eckankar did so out of
                  > frustration caused via neglect
                  > and unloving behavior towards
                  > them.
                  >
                  > Once you've become an EK
                  > member Klemp's main goal
                  > has been achieved. From
                  > there HK dangles the carrot
                  > for the higher initiations
                  > and, now, makes it very
                  > difficult to achieve the 7th.
                  > Eckists need to become
                  > ESAs to become RESAs
                  > and unless you're already
                  > an ESA it's, now, much
                  > more difficult to achieve.
                  > And, for a 6th ESA to get
                  > the 7th they, usually, need
                  > to become a RESA.
                  >
                  > Thus, Klemp slowed-down
                  > Initiations in 1985 due to
                  > Darwin making 500 new
                  > 5ths before leaving office.
                  > So, more that 25 years later
                  > what is Klemp's excuse for
                  > not making more H.I.s and
                  > for not expanding the "outer"
                  > initiations and their numbers?
                  >
                  > It's actually a simple/obvious
                  > explanation. Klemp is selfish.
                  >
                  > Klemp's lack of empathy,
                  > compassion, forgiveness and
                  > real, true love for his fellow
                  > eckists, and the trickle-down
                  > effect within the EK Hierarchy,
                  > is why Eckankar and ECKists
                  > are broken and lost. Their
                  > delusional faith and fellowship
                  > (it's a numbers game) is
                  > what they cling to as do
                  > all religionists. Yet, as with
                  > all religionists, their faith
                  > has the only chosen ones
                  > who have been gifted with
                  > special insight into God
                  > (or whatever name they use).
                  > EK is simply more of the same
                  > but tweaked to fit a special
                  > New Age/Metaphysical mindset.
                  > It's the Easy Way until those,
                  > now, with less than 30 plus
                  > years want a 6th or 7th
                  > initiation.
                  >
                  > Prometheus
                  >
                  >
                  > "Non" eckchains wrote:
                  > I agree with a lot of what you have said here. I don't quite get the Soulmate
                  > though. I have been met with mostly great difficulty in actualizing this, even
                  > though it sounds quite nice. I am open to experiencing this, yet I am also
                  > naturally intuitive and also he who questions a lot and enjoys experimenting and
                  > investigating. Most people I meet are into holding tight to their beliefs and
                  > don't like being around someone like me, if I am just being myself. For some
                  > reason I ruffle feathers so maybe that means I need to stay away from certain
                  > Birds. :) I don't know the answer.
                  >
                  > As far as the sound current. My experience has been dreams of beautiful music
                  > sometimes, but also just feeling. Not everyone is musical. The sound current and
                  > light may actually be too limiting. It is based on our two most used human
                  > senses, seeing and hearing. There is so much more richness involved. We are
                  > lacking in our sense of smell and there are other senses that other animals know
                  > and experience that make us look like idiots sometimes. Humans are very arrogant
                  > because of our superior ability to manipulate our environment, something that if
                  > unchecked can and does cause great havoc, destruction and killing just to kill.
                  >
                  > Feeling and intuition is very under rated. Feelings allow us to have compassion
                  > and empathy. That is a vibration I wish there was more of. People don't like it,
                  > because it also means that we may have to relate to the pain of another, or to
                  > our own pain. People are too hardened IMHO. At the same time, bless the ones who
                  > act out of compassion to advocate and fight those who are indifferent to at
                  > least living with some level of a little empathy. I think they have compassion
                  > in them, it is just repressed, and imo is always pushing to express. I dare say,
                  > that even klemp and his HI's are so frownish and fakish, because that is how you
                  > repress feelings and natural compassion. It is harder for humans, because we are
                  > more self-aware. Native American life often at least had sacred rituals for
                  > killing to eat. We are lost..... Light and sound meditations may just be a
                  > distraction and limiting us from our Whole Being. We cannot cut off a part of
                  > ourselves and Be our Whole Being, imo.
                  >
                  > Non ; )
                  >
                  >
                  > <prometheus wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hello Tyson, Russ, and All,
                  > > I believe that religious myth
                  > > was created to explain away
                  > > the phenomenal, and that
                  > > religion was created in order
                  > > to control the masses and,
                  > > thus, use this undertaking
                  > > for money, power, greed,
                  > > status and other self-benefits
                  > > for the hierarchies.
                  > >
                  > > The Blue Light/Blue Star?
                  > > The human mind/brain
                  > > functions similarly and
                  > > when attention is placed
                  > > upon subjects this produces
                  > > chemical and electrical
                  > > reactions. There are even
                  > > mixed but similar responses
                  > > to unconscious stimuli.
                  > > But many people realize
                  > > all of this but tend to
                  > > forget it when seeking
                  > > "spiritual" answers.
                  > >
                  > > People should not have
                  > > faith in the words of
                  > > others. People should
                  > > No Longer give others
                  > > 'the benefit of the doubt.'
                  > >
                  > > Yes, we can look at what
                  > > principles they are sharing
                  > > in order to help us to
                  > > achieve a greater realization
                  > > but we should not limit
                  > > ourselves from going
                  > > beyond the realizations
                  > > and achievements in
                  > > higher consciousness
                  > > of those we view as
                  > > ideals/icons.
                  > >
                  > > Thus, the concept of
                  > > "Master" needs to be
                  > > revised and eliminated.
                  > >
                  > > When the lessons have
                  > > been taught, via real
                  > > world examples of
                  > > living, it then becomes
                  > > our responsibility
                  > > to demonstrate what
                  > > we have learned as
                  > > it pertains to our
                  > > own unique individual
                  > > personality and
                  > > circumstances. We
                  > > move-on and into
                  > > our own unrestricted
                  > > conscious awareness.
                  > >
                  > > IMHO- Jesus, and not
                  > > always his apostles,
                  > > taught some really
                  > > advanced concepts.
                  > > Too advanced for
                  > > most of us today!
                  > >
                  > > I'll never forget this
                  > > one Fung Fu episode
                  > > where Cain ran into
                  > > some religious fanatics
                  > > who would not defend
                  > > themselves and would
                  > > turn the other cheek.
                  > > Cain showed them that
                  > > there was a third response.
                  > > Instead of becoming
                  > > a victim of violence,
                  > > or responding with
                  > > violence Cain stopped/
                  > > blocked the violence
                  > > i.e. punch or object
                  > > and redirected its
                  > > intended path.
                  > >
                  > > Anyway, I've heard
                  > > sounds when first
                  > > starting to mediate
                  > > via TM. Everyone
                  > > heard these tones.
                  > > Generally the mind
                  > > blocks out these
                  > > background noises
                  > > until it quiets down
                  > > and empties itself.
                  > > Actually, one can
                  > > follow these sounds
                  > > without placing
                  > > too much attention
                  > > on them. That's the
                  > > trick. One doesn't
                  > > place attention or
                  > > attachment on any
                  > > thought, imaginary
                  > > vision or sound no
                  > > matter how pleasant.
                  > >
                  > > Eventually, this will
                  > > produce other by-
                  > > products of awareness
                  > > such as contentment.
                  > >
                  > > I have to say that one
                  > > must discover their
                  > > own reality. Don't take
                  > > my word for anything.
                  > > Divine Awareness is
                  > > an individual experience
                  > > and not a group path.
                  > > I called it "Divine Awareness"
                  > > in oder to give this
                  > > private and personal
                  > > Discovery by Soul a
                  > > special designation.
                  > > By referring to the
                  > > uniqueness of the
                  > > individual experience
                  > > as 'Soul' does likewise.
                  > >
                  > > I will have to say that
                  > > I've had help in validating
                  > > that there is a Reality
                  > > beyond the scientific
                  > > explanations and that
                  > > of religious dogma.
                  > >
                  > > I can only say that
                  > > the Soulmate concept
                  > > (IMO) is real in that
                  > > it helps these Souls
                  > > to form a special
                  > > bond in order to merge
                  > > and harmonize their
                  > > vibrations and to better
                  > > 'tune-in' to glimpses
                  > > of, perhaps, our true
                  > > origins and potential
                  > > but also of this Here
                  > > and Now.
                  > >
                  > > Prometheus
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > "Tyson" wrote:
                  > > The sound current, bani,
                  > > shabd or nam is real.
                  > >
                  > > There is no religion that
                  > > can claim it as there own.
                  > >
                  > > What is fiction is the
                  > > dependance on a master
                  > > that is created by religions
                  > > of the light and sound.
                  > >
                  > > Only one initiation is
                  > > important.
                  > >
                  > > Yet faith in a past master
                  > > such as Christ, Krishna
                  > > or Guru Nanak is just as
                  > > valid.
                  > >
                  > > There is no mahanta.
                  > >
                  > > The blue star is no
                  > > other than a manifestation
                  > > created by a meeting
                  > > between the holy spirit
                  > > and ones higher self
                  > > (soul).
                  > >
                  > > For Harold to claim to
                  > > be the blue star is a
                  > > way to snare the gullible.
                  > > He is no more the blue
                  > > star than the second
                  > > coming of christ.
                  > >
                  > > I had heard the rushing
                  > > wind as a member of
                  > > eckankar so I wrongly
                  > > believed that this path
                  > > must be true.
                  > >
                  > > It was meditation on
                  > > the third eye that brought
                  > > the rushing wind, not
                  > > Klemp.
                  > >
                  > > Eckankar was taken from
                  > > the Sihk word Ek Ong Kar.
                  > > Ek Ong Kar means one
                  > > divine energy permeates
                  > > all things.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Russ wrote:
                  > > > I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is ex eckist, interviewing
                  > > David Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.
                  > >
                  > > > One of the interviewees, a man made a statement, paraphrasing here, that in
                  > > his mind it doesn't matter where the writings of eckankar come from because he
                  > > is finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it's more important to have
                  > a
                  > > connection with the sound current.
                  > > >
                  > > > I used to have that exact point of view. What changed for me?
                  > > >
                  > > > One thing I used to feel good about when talking about eck was this idea
                  > that
                  > > it has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was synonymous with the
                  > sound
                  > > current.
                  > > >
                  > > > It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored for a decade, after
                  > > becoming a 5th. I could no longer ignore this dissonance, caused by the
                  > > plaigarism and ultimately this had led to me dropping out of eckankar.
                  > > >
                  > > > I have a question concerning the sound current. I experience this sound,
                  > > sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous to my study of eck.
                  > Maybe
                  > > it isn't important, where you read about it, if you take it as a principle and
                  > > work with it.
                  > > >
                  > > > Do you folks think the sound current is bogus? Delusions?
                  > > >
                  > > > This is an interesting point because I am interested in truth...
                  > > >
                  > > > BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion, good work. But this by
                  > > itself doesn't go to the underlying issues concerning the question, "What is
                  > the
                  > > Truth regarding the idea of the sound current as a way of connection with the
                  > > Divine??"
                  > > >
                  > > > Thanks,
                  > > >
                  > > > Russ
                  >
                • etznab18
                  I don t believe Paul Twitchell reinvented the Soul Mates thing. It looks to me more like he plagiarized, or paraphrased about it (adding his own spin as well,
                  Message 8 of 22 , Dec 7, 2012
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                    I don't believe Paul Twitchell reinvented the Soul Mates thing. It looks to me more like he plagiarized, or paraphrased about it (adding his own spin as well, under the guise of Eck Masters, etc.). But hey, Eckankar is not a cult and it's against spiritual law to push one's beliefs on another :) If you don't believe me just read the FAQ section on Eckankar's web site. Look for the question: Is Eckankar a cult?

                    ***

                    There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book, Dialogues With The Master (1970), called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.

                    Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness (first published in 1913?) - and compare the text with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to Paul Twitchell in Dialogues With The Master.

                    http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up

                    http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNomad.pdf

                    ***

                    Remember that controversial subject of Soul Mates which appeared in Paul Twitche;ll's earlier books (I thought it was TTF, but here is something in DWTM)?

                    Ali Nomad:

                    Each and every SOUL, therefore, has its spiritual counterpart--its "other half," with which it unites on the spiritual plane, when the time comes for attainment of immortality.

                    Lord Sohang:

                    "Each and every Soul, therefore, in the lower worlds has its spiritual counterpart - its other half with which it unites on the spiritual plane, when the time comes for the attainment of the highest goal of the world of Brahm and that counterpart is the ECK Spirit." (DWTM p. 176)

                    https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!searchin/alt.religion.eckankar/soul$20mates|sort:date/alt.religion.eckankar/9_e16rhw3gA/3VmvQQ811QsJ

                    Now of course it depends on who Paul Twitchell is plagiarizing, as the information can vary. It can even appear contradictory. Example:

                    [...] But unless the union has already been made in heaven through pure love, the physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness, for like all true sacraments it must be entered into and registered upon all planes. (p. 220)
                    The Law of Divine Love will bring to each Soul its true marriage, a union in perfect purity on all planes. This according to the one life-theory is of course impossible for all; but since reincarnation is a fact, the Soul, through repeated experiences, learns to follow its Divine Guidance, hence will ultimately find its true mate. But they can be spiritually as well as physically married to their mates only when the old accounts of both have been balanced and the old complications set up through the mistakes of the past have been worked out. [... .]. (p. 221)

                    The Voice Of Isis And Realms Of The Living Dead, by Harriett Augusta Curtiss

                    http://archive.org/stream/TheVoiceOfIsis2ndEdition/CurtissFhAndHaTheVoiceOfIsis2ndEdition_djvu.txt

                    Rebazar Tarzs in DWTM:

                    "Now for the part of union between man and woman. Unless this union has been made on the higher planes through pure thought, the physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness, for like all true sacraments it must be entered into and registered upon all planes.
                    "The law of divine love will bring to each Soul Its true marriage and union in perfect purity on all planes. This true marriage is that of Soul with the ECK - the polarization of each Soul - not two Souls or man and woman coming together. And, as it is, each Soul will be guided through repeated experience by divine guidance until It finds this true love, the love of ECK through the Mahanta. You can be spiritually as well as physically married to a mate only when the old accounts of both have been balanced, and old complications set up through mistakes of the past have been worked out. (p. 115)

                    (My guess is that someone revised the original DWTM manuscript since the ECK (all caps) trademark didn't come about until 1968 and the Mahanta term didn't come into vogue until 1969; whereas the DWTM manuscript was reportedly written in 1956!)

                    Now I remember (I think it was in The Tiger's Fang, Or was it The Eck-Vidya?) some Soul Mates controversy in Eckankar history where I believe Harold Klemp and Eckankar had to "correct" what Paul Twitchell earlier wrote. It was no longer about two people coming together, but a person finding (in so many words) their own "higher self".

                    I haven't finished checking all the references to Soul Mates in all of Paul's books, so don't just go on what I quoted from DWTM.

                    ***

                    Btw, my Yahoo has been bouncing since Nov. 28 so I've been out of the loop since then and hadn't received any posts via email. Just now are catching up.

                    --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hello Non eckchains and All,
                    > The Soulmate theory
                    > phenomena is an interesting
                    > spiritual perspective
                    > and is, actually, unlimited
                    > by conventional New Age
                    > thought. Eckankar (PT)
                    > reinvented it with a
                    > Twin-Soul perspective.
                    > This is interesting, but
                    > IMO it shouldn't be limited
                    > to or by PT's "Twin" Soul
                    > view and a single pairing
                    > only.
                    >
                    > Thus, the connection that
                    > some/many Souls have with
                    > one another (IMO) s/b referred
                    > to in the plural. Thus, Soulmates
                    > is more than one pairing.
                    > Unfortunately, for Eckists,
                    > Klemp has them locked into
                    > a "Twin" concept when there
                    > are Triplets and many more!
                    > This phenomena can be
                    > a special connection/attraction
                    > with lifelong friends, as well,
                    > and not always be with sexual
                    > partners.
                    >
                    > As far as Klemp's fraud
                    > and his "frownish and fakish"
                    > H.I.'s, well, that's to be
                    > expected when they emulate
                    > HK's own behaviour via clues
                    > with the way the EK hierarchy
                    > is run or the way in which
                    > he speaks/refers to Joan and/
                    > or tells his stories.
                    >
                    > With Klemp there's a lack
                    > of forgiveness, compassion,
                    > and empathy. These are
                    > missing from Klemp's own
                    > perspectives in his own life
                    > stories.
                    >
                    > It's easy for him to judge
                    > others and point out flaws
                    > or to add "insight" and to
                    > do EK tweaks on the letters
                    > sent to him. And, that's
                    > what Klemp does when
                    > he "writes" in his hermit
                    > batty cave.
                    >
                    > Thus, many of HK's RESAs
                    > emulate his lack of empathy,
                    > compassion, and forgiveness.
                    > They talk a lot about "love"
                    > but when it comes to the
                    > business/spiritual side of
                    > Eckankar and the "Guidelines,"
                    > as set forth by HK via the
                    > ESC, there is not much room
                    > leftover for the byproducts
                    > of love.
                    >
                    > Look at the way the Higher
                    > initiations are handed out.
                    > There are always strings
                    > attached and it has more
                    > to do with "Outer" posturing
                    > and faking it with physical
                    > requirements. What is said
                    > or isn't said to the RESA
                    > or done as a volunteer,
                    > than with anything else
                    > or with one's visible goodness,
                    > has more importance in
                    > deciding who gets a pink
                    > slip. It's not love for God.
                    > Long-time Eckists who
                    > are loyal and loving and
                    > are very nice people are
                    > excluded from becoming
                    > H.I.s because they haven't
                    > jumped through enough
                    > physical hoops of training,
                    > retraining, volunteering, etc.
                    >
                    > Or, maybe they didn't seem
                    > like a 'take charge" leader
                    > or have a college education
                    > and/or were high profile
                    > professionals. It's amazing
                    > how petty RESAs can be,
                    > and these people are the
                    > "righthand" of Klemp.
                    >
                    > In truth, many people who
                    > left Eckankar did so out of
                    > frustration caused via neglect
                    > and unloving behavior towards
                    > them. Once you've become
                    > a member their main goal
                    > has been achieved. From
                    > there they dangle the carrot
                    > for the higher initiations
                    > and, now, make it very
                    > difficult to achieve the 7th.
                    > Eckists need to become
                    > ESAs to become RESAs
                    > and unless you're already
                    > an ESA it's, now, much
                    > more difficult to achieve.
                    > And, for a 6th ESA to get
                    > the 7th they, usually, need
                    > to become a RESA.
                    >
                    > Thus, Klemp slowed-down
                    > Initiations in 1985 due to
                    > Darwin making 500 new
                    > 5ths before leaving office.
                    > So, more that 25 years later
                    > what is Klemp's excuse for
                    > not making more H.I.s and
                    > for not expanding the "outer"
                    > initiations and their numbers?
                    >
                    > It's actually a simple/obvious
                    > explanation. Klemp is selfish.
                    >
                    > Klemp's lack of empathy,
                    > compassion, forgiveness and
                    > real, true love for his fellow
                    > eckists, and the trickle-down
                    > effect within the EK Hierarchy,
                    > is why Eckankar and ECKists
                    > are broken and lost. Their
                    > delusional faith and fellowship
                    > (it's a numbers game) is
                    > what they cling to as do
                    > all religionists. Yet, as with
                    > all religionists, their faith
                    > has the only chosen ones
                    > who have been gifted with
                    > special insight into God
                    > (or whatever name they use).
                    > EK is simply more of the same
                    > but tweaked to fit a special
                    > New Age/Metaphysical mindset.
                    > It's the Easy Way until those,
                    > now, with less than 30 plus
                    > years want a 6th or 7th
                    > initiation.
                    >
                    > Prometheus
                    >
                    >
                    > "Non" eckchains wrote:
                    > I agree with a lot of what you have said here. I don't quite get the Soulmate
                    > though. I have been met with mostly great difficulty in actualizing this, even
                    > though it sounds quite nice. I am open to experiencing this, yet I am also
                    > naturally intuitive and also he who questions a lot and enjoys experimenting and
                    > investigating. Most people I meet are into holding tight to their beliefs and
                    > don't like being around someone like me, if I am just being myself. For some
                    > reason I ruffle feathers so maybe that means I need to stay away from certain
                    > Birds. :) I don't know the answer.
                    >
                    > As far as the sound current. My experience has been dreams of beautiful music
                    > sometimes, but also just feeling. Not everyone is musical. The sound current and
                    > light may actually be too limiting. It is based on our two most used human
                    > senses, seeing and hearing. There is so much more richness involved. We are
                    > lacking in our sense of smell and there are other senses that other animals know
                    > and experience that make us look like idiots sometimes. Humans are very arrogant
                    > because of our superior ability to manipulate our environment, something that if
                    > unchecked can and does cause great havoc, destruction and killing just to kill.
                    >
                    > Feeling and intuition is very under rated. Feelings allow us to have compassion
                    > and empathy. That is a vibration I wish there was more of. People don't like it,
                    > because it also means that we may have to relate to the pain of another, or to
                    > our own pain. People are too hardened IMHO. At the same time, bless the ones who
                    > act out of compassion to advocate and fight those who are indifferent to at
                    > least living with some level of a little empathy. I think they have compassion
                    > in them, it is just repressed, and imo is always pushing to express. I dare say,
                    > that even klemp and his HI's are so frownish and fakish, because that is how you
                    > repress feelings and natural compassion. It is harder for humans, because we are
                    > more self-aware. Native American life often at least had sacred rituals for
                    > killing to eat. We are lost..... Light and sound meditations may just be a
                    > distraction and limiting us from our Whole Being. We cannot cut off a part of
                    > ourselves and Be our Whole Being, imo.
                    >
                    > Non ; )
                    >
                    >
                    > <prometheus wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Hello Tyson, Russ, and All,
                    > > I believe that religious myth
                    > > was created to explain away
                    > > the phenomenal, and that
                    > > religion was created in order
                    > > to control the masses and,
                    > > thus, use this undertaking
                    > > for money, power, greed,
                    > > status and other self-benefits
                    > > for the hierarchies.
                    > >
                    > > The Blue Light/Blue Star?
                    > > The human mind/brain
                    > > functions similarly and
                    > > when attention is placed
                    > > upon subjects this produces
                    > > chemical and electrical
                    > > reactions. There are even
                    > > mixed but similar responses
                    > > to unconscious stimuli.
                    > > But many people realize
                    > > all of this but tend to
                    > > forget it when seeking
                    > > "spiritual" answers.
                    > >
                    > > People should not have
                    > > faith in the words of
                    > > others. People should
                    > > No Longer give others
                    > > 'the benefit of the doubt.'
                    > >
                    > > Yes, we can look at what
                    > > principles they are sharing
                    > > in order to help us to
                    > > achieve a greater realization
                    > > but we should not limit
                    > > ourselves from going
                    > > beyond the realizations
                    > > and achievements in
                    > > higher consciousness
                    > > of those we view as
                    > > ideals/icons.
                    > >
                    > > Thus, the concept of
                    > > "Master" needs to be
                    > > revised and eliminated.
                    > >
                    > > When the lessons have
                    > > been taught, via real
                    > > world examples of
                    > > living, it then becomes
                    > > our responsibility
                    > > to demonstrate what
                    > > we have learned as
                    > > it pertains to our
                    > > own unique individual
                    > > personality and
                    > > circumstances. We
                    > > move-on and into
                    > > our own unrestricted
                    > > conscious awareness.
                    > >
                    > > IMHO- Jesus, and not
                    > > always his apostles,
                    > > taught some really
                    > > advanced concepts.
                    > > Too advanced for
                    > > most of us today!
                    > >
                    > > I'll never forget this
                    > > one Fung Fu episode
                    > > where Cain ran into
                    > > some religious fanatics
                    > > who would not defend
                    > > themselves and would
                    > > turn the other cheek.
                    > > Cain showed them that
                    > > there was a third response.
                    > > Instead of becoming
                    > > a victim of violence,
                    > > or responding with
                    > > violence Cain stopped/
                    > > blocked the violence
                    > > i.e. punch or object
                    > > and redirected its
                    > > intended path.
                    > >
                    > > Anyway, I've heard
                    > > sounds when first
                    > > starting to mediate
                    > > via TM. Everyone
                    > > heard these tones.
                    > > Generally the mind
                    > > blocks out these
                    > > background noises
                    > > until it quiets down
                    > > and empties itself.
                    > > Actually, one can
                    > > follow these sounds
                    > > without placing
                    > > too much attention
                    > > on them. That's the
                    > > trick. One doesn't
                    > > place attention or
                    > > attachment on any
                    > > thought, imaginary
                    > > vision or sound no
                    > > matter how pleasant.
                    > >
                    > > Eventually, this will
                    > > produce other by-
                    > > products of awareness
                    > > such as contentment.
                    > >
                    > > I have to say that one
                    > > must discover their
                    > > own reality. Don't take
                    > > my word for anything.
                    > > Divine Awareness is
                    > > an individual experience
                    > > and not a group path.
                    > > I called it "Divine Awareness"
                    > > in oder to give this
                    > > private and personal
                    > > Discovery by Soul a
                    > > special designation.
                    > > By referring to the
                    > > uniqueness of the
                    > > individual experience
                    > > as 'Soul' does likewise.
                    > >
                    > > I will have to say that
                    > > I've had help in validating
                    > > that there is a Reality
                    > > beyond the scientific
                    > > explanations and that
                    > > of religious dogma.
                    > >
                    > > I can only say that
                    > > the Soulmate concept
                    > > (IMO) is real in that
                    > > it helps these Souls
                    > > to form a special
                    > > bond in order to merge
                    > > and harmonize their
                    > > vibrations and to better
                    > > 'tune-in' to glimpses
                    > > of, perhaps, our true
                    > > origins and potential
                    > > but also of this Here
                    > > and Now.
                    > >
                    > > Prometheus
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > "Tyson" wrote:
                    > > The sound current, bani,
                    > > shabd or nam is real.
                    > >
                    > > There is no religion that
                    > > can claim it as there own.
                    > >
                    > > What is fiction is the
                    > > dependance on a master
                    > > that is created by religions
                    > > of the light and sound.
                    > >
                    > > Only one initiation is
                    > > important.
                    > >
                    > > Yet faith in a past master
                    > > such as Christ, Krishna
                    > > or Guru Nanak is just as
                    > > valid.
                    > >
                    > > There is no mahanta.
                    > >
                    > > The blue star is no
                    > > other than a manifestation
                    > > created by a meeting
                    > > between the holy spirit
                    > > and ones higher self
                    > > (soul).
                    > >
                    > > For Harold to claim to
                    > > be the blue star is a
                    > > way to snare the gullible.
                    > > He is no more the blue
                    > > star than the second
                    > > coming of christ.
                    > >
                    > > I had heard the rushing
                    > > wind as a member of
                    > > eckankar so I wrongly
                    > > believed that this path
                    > > must be true.
                    > >
                    > > It was meditation on
                    > > the third eye that brought
                    > > the rushing wind, not
                    > > Klemp.
                    > >
                    > > Eckankar was taken from
                    > > the Sihk word Ek Ong Kar.
                    > > Ek Ong Kar means one
                    > > divine energy permeates
                    > > all things.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Russ wrote:
                    > > > I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is ex eckist, interviewing
                    > > David Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.
                    > >
                    > > > One of the interviewees, a man made a statement, paraphrasing here, that in
                    > > his mind it doesn't matter where the writings of eckankar come from because he
                    > > is finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it's more important to have
                    > a
                    > > connection with the sound current.
                    > > >
                    > > > I used to have that exact point of view. What changed for me?
                    > > >
                    > > > One thing I used to feel good about when talking about eck was this idea
                    > that
                    > > it has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was synonymous with the
                    > sound
                    > > current.
                    > > >
                    > > > It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored for a decade, after
                    > > becoming a 5th. I could no longer ignore this dissonance, caused by the
                    > > plaigarism and ultimately this had led to me dropping out of eckankar.
                    > > >
                    > > > I have a question concerning the sound current. I experience this sound,
                    > > sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous to my study of eck.
                    > Maybe
                    > > it isn't important, where you read about it, if you take it as a principle and
                    > > work with it.
                    > > >
                    > > > Do you folks think the sound current is bogus? Delusions?
                    > > >
                    > > > This is an interesting point because I am interested in truth...
                    > > >
                    > > > BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion, good work. But this by
                    > > itself doesn't go to the underlying issues concerning the question, "What is
                    > the
                    > > Truth regarding the idea of the sound current as a way of connection with the
                    > > Divine??"
                    > > >
                    > > > Thanks,
                    > > >
                    > > > Russ
                    >
                  • etznab18
                    I think people just make this stuff up according to what they read and imagine. IMO this instance of the Jewish version traces back to the Torah (or Old
                    Message 9 of 22 , Dec 7, 2012
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I think people just make this stuff up according to what they read and imagine. IMO this instance of the Jewish version traces back to the Torah (or Old Testament) calling woman a "help meet" for man. Nothing more. And of course the Bible most likely plagiarized and manipulated earlier teachings and texts way back when. Nothing new here.

                      http://biblesuite.com/hebrew/5828.htm

                      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hello All,
                      > Here's more info on Soulmates,
                      > but from a Jewish perspective.
                      > As you can see all one needs
                      > to do is some tweaking, as
                      > PT did with Sant Mat, and voilà!
                      >
                      > However, this is the half +
                      > half = whole (Soul) perspective.
                      >
                      > Then, again, there's a
                      > mention of reincarnation
                      > and the one soul coming
                      > back to help the other
                      > soul complete their mission,
                      > although, the other soul
                      > has difficulty (is punished,
                      > via karma?) in finding this
                      > returning soulmate.
                      >
                      > It seems that the Soulmate
                      > concept is used by some
                      > religions and is overlooked
                      > by others. But the fact that
                      > religions even address it,
                      > much less define it with
                      > such limitations, tends
                      > to invalidate it for many
                      > people, and validates it,
                      > in some way, for others.
                      >
                      >
                      > "Kabbalah teaches that a soul's heavenly source has male and female halves.
                      >
                      > There is no doubt that the "compatible helper" [paraphrasing Gen. 2:18] that G-d has intended for a man may assist him in his task. Yet, there is much more to it than that. A single person is unable to complete the rectification that he is to perform in this world. A soul's heavenly source has male and female halves, which are incarnated into the world as a man and a woman. The incarnation of the two does not necessarily occur simultaneously. As a result, only when the man and woman are righteous do they attain the privilege to meet and wed their real soulmate.
                      >
                      > By means of three steps of the marriage ceremony, the three main levels of a man's soul…become bound to those of his wife….
                      >
                      > Until marriage, however, a man continues to be a half soul. By means of three steps of the marriage ceremony, the three main levels of a man's soul, the Nefesh, the Ruach and the Neshama, become bound to those of his wife, and they both become one being, with one joint spiritual structure.
                      >
                      > Consequently, each spouse may only reach spiritual fulfillment and perfection by means of their union, when their lives are conducted with purity.
                      >
                      > Even when the man and woman who get married are not real soulmates - which is often the case in our time - they have to accomplish together a rectification that was assigned to them in Heaven. Sometimes, per divine decree, a person is unable to find a compatible mate. It is nevertheless the unmarried person's duty to keep trying to find a spouse, for one may only reach one's spiritual potential through marriage, and a decree may change at any time that the person achieves whatever rectification is personally required before he can find a mate.
                      >
                      > His soulmate is allowed to incarnate with him…in order to help him….
                      >
                      > When a man comes into this world without a heavy debt to rectify, he may meet his soulmate and marry her without much effort. The Ari cites the case of a man who sins and has to reincarnate, whereas his soulmate has completed her task in this world and has no further need of incarnation. (Shaar HaGilgulim, 20) In special cases, his soulmate is allowed to incarnate with him, and she will came back to this world with him in order to help him. When the time comes for him to get married, however, he will not find her effortlessly as in the first case, but after an intense search and struggle. Since he reincarnated because of a sin he committed, the Accusers on high speak against him; they want him to be prevented from meeting her, on the grounds that he does not deserve it. So they spread animosity between the couple and they later quarrel. That is why it is written that making couples is as difficult as splitting the Red Sea!
                      >
                      > [Translated by Simcha Benyosef]"
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > prometheus_wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Hello Non eckchains and All,
                      > > The Soulmate theory
                      > > phenomena is an interesting
                      > > spiritual perspective
                      > > and is, actually, unlimited
                      > > by conventional New Age
                      > > thought. Eckankar (PT)
                      > > reinvented it with a
                      > > Twin-Soul perspective.
                      > > This is interesting, but
                      > > IMO it shouldn't be limited
                      > > to or by PT's "Twin" Soul
                      > > view and a single pairing
                      > > only.
                      > >
                      > > Thus, the connection that
                      > > some/many Souls have with
                      > > one another (IMO) s/b referred
                      > > to in the plural. Thus, Soulmates
                      > > is more than one pairing.
                      > > Unfortunately, for Eckists,
                      > > Klemp has them locked into
                      > > a "Twin" concept when there
                      > > are Triplets and many more!
                      > > This phenomena can be
                      > > a special connection/attraction
                      > > with lifelong friends, as well,
                      > > and not always be with sexual
                      > > partners.
                      > >
                      > > As far as Klemp's fraud
                      > > and his "frownish and fakish"
                      > > H.I.'s, well, that's to be
                      > > expected when they emulate
                      > > HK's own behaviour via clues
                      > > with the way the EK hierarchy
                      > > is run or the way in which
                      > > he speaks/refers to Joan and/
                      > > or tells his stories.
                      > >
                      > > With Klemp there's a lack
                      > > of forgiveness, compassion,
                      > > and empathy. These are
                      > > missing from Klemp's own
                      > > perspectives in his own life
                      > > stories.
                      > >
                      > > It's easy for HK to judge
                      > > others and point out flaws
                      > > or to add "insight" and to
                      > > do EK tweaks on the letters
                      > > sent to him. And, that's
                      > > what Klemp does when
                      > > he "writes" in his hermit
                      > > batty cave.
                      > >
                      > > Thus, many of HK's RESAs
                      > > emulate his lack of empathy,
                      > > compassion, and forgiveness.
                      > > They talk a lot about "love"
                      > > but when it comes to the
                      > > business/spiritual side of
                      > > Eckankar and the "Guidelines,"
                      > > as set forth by HK via the
                      > > ESC, there is not much room
                      > > leftover for the byproducts
                      > > of love.
                      > >
                      > > Look at the way the Higher
                      > > initiations are handed out.
                      > > There are always strings
                      > > attached and it has more
                      > > to do with "Outer" posturing
                      > > and faking it with physical
                      > > requirements. What is said,
                      > > or isn't said, to the RESA
                      > > or done as a volunteer,
                      > > has more weight than
                      > > anything else, like one's
                      > > visible goodness. The
                      > > superficial has more
                      > > importance in deciding
                      > > who gets a pink slip than
                      > > demonstrating a love for
                      > > God.
                      > >
                      > > Long-time Eckists who
                      > > are loyal and loving and
                      > > are very nice people are
                      > > excluded from becoming
                      > > H.I.s because they haven't
                      > > jumped through enough
                      > > physical hoops of training,
                      > > retraining, volunteering, etc.
                      > > Or, maybe they didn't seem
                      > > like a 'take charge" leader
                      > > or have a college education
                      > > and/or were high profile
                      > > professionals.
                      > >
                      > > It's amazing how petty
                      > > RESAs can be, and these
                      > > people are the "righthand"
                      > > of Klemp.
                      > >
                      > > In truth, many people who
                      > > left Eckankar did so out of
                      > > frustration caused via neglect
                      > > and unloving behavior towards
                      > > them.
                      > >
                      > > Once you've become an EK
                      > > member Klemp's main goal
                      > > has been achieved. From
                      > > there HK dangles the carrot
                      > > for the higher initiations
                      > > and, now, makes it very
                      > > difficult to achieve the 7th.
                      > > Eckists need to become
                      > > ESAs to become RESAs
                      > > and unless you're already
                      > > an ESA it's, now, much
                      > > more difficult to achieve.
                      > > And, for a 6th ESA to get
                      > > the 7th they, usually, need
                      > > to become a RESA.
                      > >
                      > > Thus, Klemp slowed-down
                      > > Initiations in 1985 due to
                      > > Darwin making 500 new
                      > > 5ths before leaving office.
                      > > So, more that 25 years later
                      > > what is Klemp's excuse for
                      > > not making more H.I.s and
                      > > for not expanding the "outer"
                      > > initiations and their numbers?
                      > >
                      > > It's actually a simple/obvious
                      > > explanation. Klemp is selfish.
                      > >
                      > > Klemp's lack of empathy,
                      > > compassion, forgiveness and
                      > > real, true love for his fellow
                      > > eckists, and the trickle-down
                      > > effect within the EK Hierarchy,
                      > > is why Eckankar and ECKists
                      > > are broken and lost. Their
                      > > delusional faith and fellowship
                      > > (it's a numbers game) is
                      > > what they cling to as do
                      > > all religionists. Yet, as with
                      > > all religionists, their faith
                      > > has the only chosen ones
                      > > who have been gifted with
                      > > special insight into God
                      > > (or whatever name they use).
                      > > EK is simply more of the same
                      > > but tweaked to fit a special
                      > > New Age/Metaphysical mindset.
                      > > It's the Easy Way until those,
                      > > now, with less than 30 plus
                      > > years want a 6th or 7th
                      > > initiation.
                      > >
                      > > Prometheus
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > "Non" eckchains wrote:
                      > > I agree with a lot of what you have said here. I don't quite get the Soulmate
                      > > though. I have been met with mostly great difficulty in actualizing this, even
                      > > though it sounds quite nice. I am open to experiencing this, yet I am also
                      > > naturally intuitive and also he who questions a lot and enjoys experimenting and
                      > > investigating. Most people I meet are into holding tight to their beliefs and
                      > > don't like being around someone like me, if I am just being myself. For some
                      > > reason I ruffle feathers so maybe that means I need to stay away from certain
                      > > Birds. :) I don't know the answer.
                      > >
                      > > As far as the sound current. My experience has been dreams of beautiful music
                      > > sometimes, but also just feeling. Not everyone is musical. The sound current and
                      > > light may actually be too limiting. It is based on our two most used human
                      > > senses, seeing and hearing. There is so much more richness involved. We are
                      > > lacking in our sense of smell and there are other senses that other animals know
                      > > and experience that make us look like idiots sometimes. Humans are very arrogant
                      > > because of our superior ability to manipulate our environment, something that if
                      > > unchecked can and does cause great havoc, destruction and killing just to kill.
                      > >
                      > > Feeling and intuition is very under rated. Feelings allow us to have compassion
                      > > and empathy. That is a vibration I wish there was more of. People don't like it,
                      > > because it also means that we may have to relate to the pain of another, or to
                      > > our own pain. People are too hardened IMHO. At the same time, bless the ones who
                      > > act out of compassion to advocate and fight those who are indifferent to at
                      > > least living with some level of a little empathy. I think they have compassion
                      > > in them, it is just repressed, and imo is always pushing to express. I dare say,
                      > > that even klemp and his HI's are so frownish and fakish, because that is how you
                      > > repress feelings and natural compassion. It is harder for humans, because we are
                      > > more self-aware. Native American life often at least had sacred rituals for
                      > > killing to eat. We are lost..... Light and sound meditations may just be a
                      > > distraction and limiting us from our Whole Being. We cannot cut off a part of
                      > > ourselves and Be our Whole Being, imo.
                      > >
                      > > Non ; )
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > <prometheus wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Hello Tyson, Russ, and All,
                      > > > I believe that religious myth
                      > > > was created to explain away
                      > > > the phenomenal, and that
                      > > > religion was created in order
                      > > > to control the masses and,
                      > > > thus, use this undertaking
                      > > > for money, power, greed,
                      > > > status and other self-benefits
                      > > > for the hierarchies.
                      > > >
                      > > > The Blue Light/Blue Star?
                      > > > The human mind/brain
                      > > > functions similarly and
                      > > > when attention is placed
                      > > > upon subjects this produces
                      > > > chemical and electrical
                      > > > reactions. There are even
                      > > > mixed but similar responses
                      > > > to unconscious stimuli.
                      > > > But many people realize
                      > > > all of this but tend to
                      > > > forget it when seeking
                      > > > "spiritual" answers.
                      > > >
                      > > > People should not have
                      > > > faith in the words of
                      > > > others. People should
                      > > > No Longer give others
                      > > > 'the benefit of the doubt.'
                      > > >
                      > > > Yes, we can look at what
                      > > > principles they are sharing
                      > > > in order to help us to
                      > > > achieve a greater realization
                      > > > but we should not limit
                      > > > ourselves from going
                      > > > beyond the realizations
                      > > > and achievements in
                      > > > higher consciousness
                      > > > of those we view as
                      > > > ideals/icons.
                      > > >
                      > > > Thus, the concept of
                      > > > "Master" needs to be
                      > > > revised and eliminated.
                      > > >
                      > > > When the lessons have
                      > > > been taught, via real
                      > > > world examples of
                      > > > living, it then becomes
                      > > > our responsibility
                      > > > to demonstrate what
                      > > > we have learned as
                      > > > it pertains to our
                      > > > own unique individual
                      > > > personality and
                      > > > circumstances. We
                      > > > move-on and into
                      > > > our own unrestricted
                      > > > conscious awareness.
                      > > >
                      > > > IMHO- Jesus, and not
                      > > > always his apostles,
                      > > > taught some really
                      > > > advanced concepts.
                      > > > Too advanced for
                      > > > most of us today!
                      > > >
                      > > > I'll never forget this
                      > > > one Fung Fu episode
                      > > > where Cain ran into
                      > > > some religious fanatics
                      > > > who would not defend
                      > > > themselves and would
                      > > > turn the other cheek.
                      > > > Cain showed them that
                      > > > there was a third response.
                      > > > Instead of becoming
                      > > > a victim of violence,
                      > > > or responding with
                      > > > violence Cain stopped/
                      > > > blocked the violence
                      > > > i.e. punch or object
                      > > > and redirected its
                      > > > intended path.
                      > > >
                      > > > Anyway, I've heard
                      > > > sounds when first
                      > > > starting to mediate
                      > > > via TM. Everyone
                      > > > heard these tones.
                      > > > Generally the mind
                      > > > blocks out these
                      > > > background noises
                      > > > until it quiets down
                      > > > and empties itself.
                      > > > Actually, one can
                      > > > follow these sounds
                      > > > without placing
                      > > > too much attention
                      > > > on them. That's the
                      > > > trick. One doesn't
                      > > > place attention or
                      > > > attachment on any
                      > > > thought, imaginary
                      > > > vision or sound no
                      > > > matter how pleasant.
                      > > >
                      > > > Eventually, this will
                      > > > produce other by-
                      > > > products of awareness
                      > > > such as contentment.
                      > > >
                      > > > I have to say that one
                      > > > must discover their
                      > > > own reality. Don't take
                      > > > my word for anything.
                      > > > Divine Awareness is
                      > > > an individual experience
                      > > > and not a group path.
                      > > > I called it "Divine Awareness"
                      > > > in oder to give this
                      > > > private and personal
                      > > > Discovery by Soul a
                      > > > special designation.
                      > > > By referring to the
                      > > > uniqueness of the
                      > > > individual experience
                      > > > as 'Soul' does likewise.
                      > > >
                      > > > I will have to say that
                      > > > I've had help in validating
                      > > > that there is a Reality
                      > > > beyond the scientific
                      > > > explanations and that
                      > > > of religious dogma.
                      > > >
                      > > > I can only say that
                      > > > the Soulmate concept
                      > > > (IMO) is real in that
                      > > > it helps these Souls
                      > > > to form a special
                      > > > bond in order to merge
                      > > > and harmonize their
                      > > > vibrations and to better
                      > > > 'tune-in' to glimpses
                      > > > of, perhaps, our true
                      > > > origins and potential
                      > > > but also of this Here
                      > > > and Now.
                      > > >
                      > > > Prometheus
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > "Tyson" wrote:
                      > > > The sound current, bani,
                      > > > shabd or nam is real.
                      > > >
                      > > > There is no religion that
                      > > > can claim it as there own.
                      > > >
                      > > > What is fiction is the
                      > > > dependance on a master
                      > > > that is created by religions
                      > > > of the light and sound.
                      > > >
                      > > > Only one initiation is
                      > > > important.
                      > > >
                      > > > Yet faith in a past master
                      > > > such as Christ, Krishna
                      > > > or Guru Nanak is just as
                      > > > valid.
                      > > >
                      > > > There is no mahanta.
                      > > >
                      > > > The blue star is no
                      > > > other than a manifestation
                      > > > created by a meeting
                      > > > between the holy spirit
                      > > > and ones higher self
                      > > > (soul).
                      > > >
                      > > > For Harold to claim to
                      > > > be the blue star is a
                      > > > way to snare the gullible.
                      > > > He is no more the blue
                      > > > star than the second
                      > > > coming of christ.
                      > > >
                      > > > I had heard the rushing
                      > > > wind as a member of
                      > > > eckankar so I wrongly
                      > > > believed that this path
                      > > > must be true.
                      > > >
                      > > > It was meditation on
                      > > > the third eye that brought
                      > > > the rushing wind, not
                      > > > Klemp.
                      > > >
                      > > > Eckankar was taken from
                      > > > the Sihk word Ek Ong Kar.
                      > > > Ek Ong Kar means one
                      > > > divine energy permeates
                      > > > all things.
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Russ wrote:
                      > > > > I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is ex eckist, interviewing
                      > > > David Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.
                      > > >
                      > > > > One of the interviewees, a man made a statement, paraphrasing here, that in
                      > > > his mind it doesn't matter where the writings of eckankar come from because he
                      > > > is finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it's more important to have
                      > > a
                      > > > connection with the sound current.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I used to have that exact point of view. What changed for me?
                      > > > >
                      > > > > One thing I used to feel good about when talking about eck was this idea
                      > > that
                      > > > it has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was synonymous with the
                      > > sound
                      > > > current.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored for a decade, after
                      > > > becoming a 5th. I could no longer ignore this dissonance, caused by the
                      > > > plaigarism and ultimately this had led to me dropping out of eckankar.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I have a question concerning the sound current. I experience this sound,
                      > > > sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous to my study of eck.
                      > > Maybe
                      > > > it isn't important, where you read about it, if you take it as a principle and
                      > > > work with it.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Do you folks think the sound current is bogus? Delusions?
                      > > > >
                      > > > > This is an interesting point because I am interested in truth...
                      > > > >
                      > > > > BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion, good work. But this by
                      > > > itself doesn't go to the underlying issues concerning the question, "What is
                      > > the
                      > > > Truth regarding the idea of the sound current as a way of connection with the
                      > > > Divine??"
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Thanks,
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Russ
                      > >
                      >
                    • prometheus_973
                      Hello Etznab and All, Yes, it does seem that Twitchell re-invented the Soulmate theory with an Eck twist that is somewhat ambiguous. Eckankar disapproves the
                      Message 10 of 22 , Dec 8, 2012
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hello Etznab and All,
                        Yes, it does seem that
                        Twitchell re-invented
                        the Soulmate theory
                        with an Eck twist that
                        is somewhat ambiguous.

                        Eckankar disapproves
                        the Soulmate theory
                        (per se) and favors the
                        Time-Twin theory.

                        However, I doubt that
                        many EKists can explain
                        just how the Time-Twin
                        Theory works or how
                        it pertains to them. Plus,
                        it is still limiting by using
                        one pairing of Masculine
                        and Feminine parts. I
                        misspoke by referring
                        to it as Twin-Soul.


                        BTW-Why did Twitchell,
                        the All Knowing Mahanta,
                        refer to this Time-Twin
                        explanation as a "theory?"
                        Since when is EK Dogma
                        a theory for an ECKist
                        and not a fact and a true
                        belief?


                        Below is the ECK
                        definition.

                        PT's Time-Twin Theory
                        states that when Soul
                        discovers that It is the
                        ECK and, thus, becomes
                        the ECK that It has attained
                        the symbol of Its Soulmate
                        by blending the feminine
                        and masculine forces within
                        the individual into one,
                        and this oneness is Itself.

                        However, this EKplanation
                        makes one wonder why
                        the LEM has to be a male
                        since the individual Soul
                        becomes the ECK when It
                        "blends" both "masculine
                        and feminine forces into
                        one... Itself."

                        Actually, Twitchell's Time-
                        Twin Theory resembles the
                        Jewish Soulmate Theory
                        of finding your other half
                        (masculine or feminine)
                        in order for Soul to become
                        whole with Itself.

                        Prometheus

                        etznab wrote:
                        I don't believe Paul Twitchell reinvented the Soul Mates thing. It looks to me
                        more like he plagiarized, or paraphrased about it (adding his own spin as well,
                        under the guise of Eck Masters, etc.). But hey, Eckankar is not a cult and it's
                        against spiritual law to push one's beliefs on another :) If you don't believe
                        me just read the FAQ section on Eckankar's web site. Look for the question: Is
                        Eckankar a cult?

                        ***

                        There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book, Dialogues With The Master (1970),
                        called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.

                        Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness (first published in 1913?) - and
                        compare the text with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to Paul Twitchell in
                        Dialogues With The Master.

                        http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up

                        http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNo\
                        \
                        mad.pdf

                        ***

                        Remember that controversial subject of Soul Mates which appeared in Paul
                        Twitchell's earlier books (I thought it was TTF, but here is something in
                        DWTM)?

                        Ali Nomad:

                        Each and every SOUL, therefore, has its spiritual counterpart--its "other half,"
                        with which it unites on the spiritual plane, when the time comes for attainment
                        of immortality.

                        Lord Sohang:

                        "Each and every Soul, therefore, in the lower worlds has its spiritual
                        counterpart - its other half with which it unites on the spiritual plane, when
                        the time comes for the attainment of the highest goal of the world of Brahm and
                        that counterpart is the ECK Spirit." (DWTM p. 176)

                        https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!searchin/alt.religion.eckanka\
                        \
                        r/soul$20mates|sort:date/alt.religion.eckankar/9_e16rhw3gA/3VmvQQ811QsJ

                        Now of course it depends on who Paul Twitchell is plagiarizing, as the
                        information can vary. It can even appear contradictory. Example:

                        [...] But unless the union has already been made in heaven through pure love,
                        the physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness, for like all true
                        sacraments it must be entered into and registered upon all planes. (p. 220)
                        The Law of Divine Love will bring to each Soul its true marriage, a union in
                        perfect purity on all planes. This according to the one life-theory is of course
                        impossible for all; but since reincarnation is a fact, the Soul, through
                        repeated experiences, learns to follow its Divine Guidance, hence will
                        ultimately find its true mate. But they can be spiritually as well as physically
                        married to their mates only when the old accounts of both have been balanced and
                        the old complications set up through the mistakes of the past have been worked
                        out. [... .]. (p. 221)

                        The Voice Of Isis And Realms Of The Living Dead, by Harriett Augusta Curtiss

                        http://archive.org/stream/TheVoiceOfIsis2ndEdition/CurtissFhAndHaTheVoiceOfIsis2\
                        \
                        ndEdition_djvu.txt

                        Rebazar Tarzs in DWTM:

                        "Now for the part of union between man and woman. Unless this union has been
                        made on the higher planes through pure thought, the physical union cannot bring
                        about peace and happiness, for like all true sacraments it must be entered into
                        and registered upon all planes.

                        "The law of divine love will bring to each Soul Its true marriage and union
                        in perfect purity on all planes. This true marriage is that of Soul with the ECK
                        - the polarization of each Soul - not two Souls or man and woman coming
                        together. And, as it is, each Soul will be guided through repeated experience by
                        divine guidance until It finds this true love, the love of ECK through the
                        Mahanta. You can be spiritually as well as physically married to a mate only
                        when the old accounts of both have been balanced, and old complications set up
                        through mistakes of the past have been worked out. (p. 115)

                        (My guess is that someone revised the original DWTM manuscript since the ECK
                        (all caps) trademark didn't come about until 1968 and the Mahanta term didn't
                        come into vogue until 1969; whereas the DWTM manuscript was reportedly written
                        in 1956!)

                        Now I remember (I think it was in The Tiger's Fang, Or was it The Eck-Vidya?)
                        some Soul Mates controversy in Eckankar history where I believe Harold Klemp and
                        Eckankar had to "correct" what Paul Twitchell earlier wrote. It was no longer
                        about two people coming together, but a person finding (in so many words) their
                        own "higher self".

                        I haven't finished checking all the references to Soul Mates in all of Paul's
                        books, so don't just go on what I quoted from DWTM.

                        ***

                        Btw, my Yahoo has been bouncing since Nov. 28 so I've been out of the loop since
                        then and hadn't received any posts via email. Just now are catching up.


                        <prometheus wrote:
                        >
                        > Hello Non eckchains and All,
                        > The Soulmate theory
                        > phenomena is an interesting
                        > spiritual perspective
                        > and is, actually, unlimited
                        > by conventional New Age
                        > thought. Eckankar (PT)
                        > reinvented it with a
                        > Twin-Soul perspective.
                        > This is interesting, but
                        > IMO it shouldn't be limited
                        > to or by PT's "Twin" Soul
                        > view and a single pairing
                        > only.
                        >
                        > Thus, the connection that
                        > some/many Souls have with
                        > one another (IMO) s/b referred
                        > to in the plural. Thus, Soulmates
                        > is more than one pairing.
                        > Unfortunately, for Eckists,
                        > Klemp has them locked into
                        > a "Twin" concept when there
                        > are Triplets and many more!
                        > This phenomena can be
                        > a special connection/attraction
                        > with lifelong friends, as well,
                        > and not always be with sexual
                        > partners.
                        >
                        > As far as Klemp's fraud
                        > and his "frownish and fakish"
                        > H.I.'s, well, that's to be
                        > expected when they emulate
                        > HK's own behaviour via clues
                        > with the way the EK hierarchy
                        > is run or the way in which
                        > he speaks/refers to Joan and/
                        > or tells his stories.
                        >
                        > With Klemp there's a lack
                        > of forgiveness, compassion,
                        > and empathy. These are
                        > missing from Klemp's own
                        > perspectives in his own life
                        > stories.
                        >
                        > It's easy for him to judge
                        > others and point out flaws
                        > or to add "insight" and to
                        > do EK tweaks on the letters
                        > sent to him. And, that's
                        > what Klemp does when
                        > he "writes" in his hermit
                        > batty cave.
                        >
                        > Thus, many of HK's RESAs
                        > emulate his lack of empathy,
                        > compassion, and forgiveness.
                        > They talk a lot about "love"
                        > but when it comes to the
                        > business/spiritual side of
                        > Eckankar and the "Guidelines,"
                        > as set forth by HK via the
                        > ESC, there is not much room
                        > leftover for the byproducts
                        > of love.
                        >
                        > Look at the way the Higher
                        > initiations are handed out.
                        > There are always strings
                        > attached and it has more
                        > to do with "Outer" posturing
                        > and faking it with physical
                        > requirements. What is said
                        > or isn't said to the RESA
                        > or done as a volunteer,
                        > than with anything else
                        > or with one's visible goodness,
                        > has more importance in
                        > deciding who gets a pink
                        > slip. It's not love for God.
                        > Long-time Eckists who
                        > are loyal and loving and
                        > are very nice people are
                        > excluded from becoming
                        > H.I.s because they haven't
                        > jumped through enough
                        > physical hoops of training,
                        > retraining, volunteering, etc.
                        >
                        > Or, maybe they didn't seem
                        > like a 'take charge" leader
                        > or have a college education
                        > and/or were high profile
                        > professionals. It's amazing
                        > how petty RESAs can be,
                        > and these people are the
                        > "righthand" of Klemp.
                        >
                        > In truth, many people who
                        > left Eckankar did so out of
                        > frustration caused via neglect
                        > and unloving behavior towards
                        > them. Once you've become
                        > a member their main goal
                        > has been achieved. From
                        > there they dangle the carrot
                        > for the higher initiations
                        > and, now, make it very
                        > difficult to achieve the 7th.
                        > Eckists need to become
                        > ESAs to become RESAs
                        > and unless you're already
                        > an ESA it's, now, much
                        > more difficult to achieve.
                        > And, for a 6th ESA to get
                        > the 7th they, usually, need
                        > to become a RESA.
                        >
                        > Thus, Klemp slowed-down
                        > Initiations in 1985 due to
                        > Darwin making 500 new
                        > 5ths before leaving office.
                        > So, more that 25 years later
                        > what is Klemp's excuse for
                        > not making more H.I.s and
                        > for not expanding the "outer"
                        > initiations and their numbers?
                        >
                        > It's actually a simple/obvious
                        > explanation. Klemp is selfish.
                        >
                        > Klemp's lack of empathy,
                        > compassion, forgiveness and
                        > real, true love for his fellow
                        > eckists, and the trickle-down
                        > effect within the EK Hierarchy,
                        > is why Eckankar and ECKists
                        > are broken and lost. Their
                        > delusional faith and fellowship
                        > (it's a numbers game) is
                        > what they cling to as do
                        > all religionists. Yet, as with
                        > all religionists, their faith
                        > has the only chosen ones
                        > who have been gifted with
                        > special insight into God
                        > (or whatever name they use).
                        > EK is simply more of the same
                        > but tweaked to fit a special
                        > New Age/Metaphysical mindset.
                        > It's the Easy Way until those,
                        > now, with less than 30 plus
                        > years want a 6th or 7th
                        > initiation.
                        >
                        > Prometheus
                        >
                        >
                        > "Non" eckchains wrote:
                        > I agree with a lot of what you have said here. I don't quite get the Soulmate
                        > though. I have been met with mostly great difficulty in actualizing this, even
                        > though it sounds quite nice. I am open to experiencing this, yet I am also
                        > naturally intuitive and also he who questions a lot and enjoys experimenting
                        and
                        > investigating. Most people I meet are into holding tight to their beliefs and
                        > don't like being around someone like me, if I am just being myself. For some
                        > reason I ruffle feathers so maybe that means I need to stay away from certain
                        > Birds. :) I don't know the answer.
                        >
                        > As far as the sound current. My experience has been dreams of beautiful music
                        > sometimes, but also just feeling. Not everyone is musical. The sound current
                        and
                        > light may actually be too limiting. It is based on our two most used human
                        > senses, seeing and hearing. There is so much more richness involved. We are
                        > lacking in our sense of smell and there are other senses that other animals
                        know
                        > and experience that make us look like idiots sometimes. Humans are very
                        arrogant
                        > because of our superior ability to manipulate our environment, something that
                        if
                        > unchecked can and does cause great havoc, destruction and killing just to
                        kill.
                        >
                        > Feeling and intuition is very under rated. Feelings allow us to have
                        compassion
                        > and empathy. That is a vibration I wish there was more of. People don't like
                        it,
                        > because it also means that we may have to relate to the pain of another, or to
                        > our own pain. People are too hardened IMHO. At the same time, bless the ones
                        who
                        > act out of compassion to advocate and fight those who are indifferent to at
                        > least living with some level of a little empathy. I think they have compassion
                        > in them, it is just repressed, and imo is always pushing to express. I dare
                        say,
                        > that even klemp and his HI's are so frownish and fakish, because that is how
                        you
                        > repress feelings and natural compassion. It is harder for humans, because we
                        are
                        > more self-aware. Native American life often at least had sacred rituals for
                        > killing to eat. We are lost..... Light and sound meditations may just be a
                        > distraction and limiting us from our Whole Being. We cannot cut off a part of
                        > ourselves and Be our Whole Being, imo.
                        >
                        > Non ; )
                        >
                        >
                        > <prometheus wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Hello Tyson, Russ, and All,
                        > > I believe that religious myth
                        > > was created to explain away
                        > > the phenomenal, and that
                        > > religion was created in order
                        > > to control the masses and,
                        > > thus, use this undertaking
                        > > for money, power, greed,
                        > > status and other self-benefits
                        > > for the hierarchies.
                        > >
                        > > The Blue Light/Blue Star?
                        > > The human mind/brain
                        > > functions similarly and
                        > > when attention is placed
                        > > upon subjects this produces
                        > > chemical and electrical
                        > > reactions. There are even
                        > > mixed but similar responses
                        > > to unconscious stimuli.
                        > > But many people realize
                        > > all of this but tend to
                        > > forget it when seeking
                        > > "spiritual" answers.
                        > >
                        > > People should not have
                        > > faith in the words of
                        > > others. People should
                        > > No Longer give others
                        > > 'the benefit of the doubt.'
                        > >
                        > > Yes, we can look at what
                        > > principles they are sharing
                        > > in order to help us to
                        > > achieve a greater realization
                        > > but we should not limit
                        > > ourselves from going
                        > > beyond the realizations
                        > > and achievements in
                        > > higher consciousness
                        > > of those we view as
                        > > ideals/icons.
                        > >
                        > > Thus, the concept of
                        > > "Master" needs to be
                        > > revised and eliminated.
                        > >
                        > > When the lessons have
                        > > been taught, via real
                        > > world examples of
                        > > living, it then becomes
                        > > our responsibility
                        > > to demonstrate what
                        > > we have learned as
                        > > it pertains to our
                        > > own unique individual
                        > > personality and
                        > > circumstances. We
                        > > move-on and into
                        > > our own unrestricted
                        > > conscious awareness.
                        > >
                        > > IMHO- Jesus, and not
                        > > always his apostles,
                        > > taught some really
                        > > advanced concepts.
                        > > Too advanced for
                        > > most of us today!
                        > >
                        > > I'll never forget this
                        > > one Fung Fu episode
                        > > where Cain ran into
                        > > some religious fanatics
                        > > who would not defend
                        > > themselves and would
                        > > turn the other cheek.
                        > > Cain showed them that
                        > > there was a third response.
                        > > Instead of becoming
                        > > a victim of violence,
                        > > or responding with
                        > > violence Cain stopped/
                        > > blocked the violence
                        > > i.e. punch or object
                        > > and redirected its
                        > > intended path.
                        > >
                        > > Anyway, I've heard
                        > > sounds when first
                        > > starting to mediate
                        > > via TM. Everyone
                        > > heard these tones.
                        > > Generally the mind
                        > > blocks out these
                        > > background noises
                        > > until it quiets down
                        > > and empties itself.
                        > > Actually, one can
                        > > follow these sounds
                        > > without placing
                        > > too much attention
                        > > on them. That's the
                        > > trick. One doesn't
                        > > place attention or
                        > > attachment on any
                        > > thought, imaginary
                        > > vision or sound no
                        > > matter how pleasant.
                        > >
                        > > Eventually, this will
                        > > produce other by-
                        > > products of awareness
                        > > such as contentment.
                        > >
                        > > I have to say that one
                        > > must discover their
                        > > own reality. Don't take
                        > > my word for anything.
                        > > Divine Awareness is
                        > > an individual experience
                        > > and not a group path.
                        > > I called it "Divine Awareness"
                        > > in oder to give this
                        > > private and personal
                        > > Discovery by Soul a
                        > > special designation.
                        > > By referring to the
                        > > uniqueness of the
                        > > individual experience
                        > > as 'Soul' does likewise.
                        > >
                        > > I will have to say that
                        > > I've had help in validating
                        > > that there is a Reality
                        > > beyond the scientific
                        > > explanations and that
                        > > of religious dogma.
                        > >
                        > > I can only say that
                        > > the Soulmate concept
                        > > (IMO) is real in that
                        > > it helps these Souls
                        > > to form a special
                        > > bond in order to merge
                        > > and harmonize their
                        > > vibrations and to better
                        > > 'tune-in' to glimpses
                        > > of, perhaps, our true
                        > > origins and potential
                        > > but also of this Here
                        > > and Now.
                        > >
                        > > Prometheus
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > "Tyson" wrote:
                        > > The sound current, bani,
                        > > shabd or nam is real.
                        > >
                        > > There is no religion that
                        > > can claim it as there own.
                        > >
                        > > What is fiction is the
                        > > dependance on a master
                        > > that is created by religions
                        > > of the light and sound.
                        > >
                        > > Only one initiation is
                        > > important.
                        > >
                        > > Yet faith in a past master
                        > > such as Christ, Krishna
                        > > or Guru Nanak is just as
                        > > valid.
                        > >
                        > > There is no mahanta.
                        > >
                        > > The blue star is no
                        > > other than a manifestation
                        > > created by a meeting
                        > > between the holy spirit
                        > > and ones higher self
                        > > (soul).
                        > >
                        > > For Harold to claim to
                        > > be the blue star is a
                        > > way to snare the gullible.
                        > > He is no more the blue
                        > > star than the second
                        > > coming of christ.
                        > >
                        > > I had heard the rushing
                        > > wind as a member of
                        > > eckankar so I wrongly
                        > > believed that this path
                        > > must be true.
                        > >
                        > > It was meditation on
                        > > the third eye that brought
                        > > the rushing wind, not
                        > > Klemp.
                        > >
                        > > Eckankar was taken from
                        > > the Sihk word Ek Ong Kar.
                        > > Ek Ong Kar means one
                        > > divine energy permeates
                        > > all things.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Russ wrote:
                        > > > I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is ex eckist, interviewing
                        > > David Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.
                        > >
                        > > > One of the interviewees, a man made a statement, paraphrasing here, that
                        in
                        > > his mind it doesn't matter where the writings of eckankar come from because
                        he
                        > > is finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it's more important to
                        have
                        > a
                        > > connection with the sound current.
                        > > >
                        > > > I used to have that exact point of view. What changed for me?
                        > > >
                        > > > One thing I used to feel good about when talking about eck was this idea
                        > that
                        > > it has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was synonymous with the
                        > sound
                        > > current.
                        > > >
                        > > > It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored for a decade, after
                        > > becoming a 5th. I could no longer ignore this dissonance, caused by the
                        > > plaigarism and ultimately this had led to me dropping out of eckankar.
                        > > >
                        > > > I have a question concerning the sound current. I experience this sound,
                        > > sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous to my study of eck.
                        > Maybe
                        > > it isn't important, where you read about it, if you take it as a principle
                        and
                        > > work with it.
                        > > >
                        > > > Do you folks think the sound current is bogus? Delusions?
                        > > >
                        > > > This is an interesting point because I am interested in truth...
                        > > >
                        > > > BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion, good work. But this by
                        > > itself doesn't go to the underlying issues concerning the question, "What is
                        > the
                        > > Truth regarding the idea of the sound current as a way of connection with
                        the
                        > > Divine??"
                        > > >
                        > > > Thanks,
                        > > >
                        > > > Russ
                      • prometheus_973
                        Hello Etznab, I was reading some of this book, which was written in 1913 or 15, and just about every page sounds a lot like Twitchell s various writings.
                        Message 11 of 22 , Dec 8, 2012
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                          Hello Etznab,
                          I was reading some
                          of this book, which
                          was written in 1913
                          or 15, and just about
                          every page sounds
                          a lot like Twitchell's
                          various writings.

                          Twitchell must have
                          plagiarized the hell
                          out of this in order
                          to create his EK dogma
                          and to make himself
                          seem spiritually advanced,
                          knowledgable, and
                          wise. And, since PT
                          was a narcissist he
                          probably used this
                          info to impress others,
                          including Gail, when,
                          in truth, he was a
                          mere wannabe, liar,
                          and plagiarist.

                          Prometheus


                          Etznab wrote:

                          There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book,
                          Dialogues With The Master (1970),
                          called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.

                          Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness
                          (first published in 1913?) - and compare the text
                          with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to Paul
                          Twitchell in Dialogues With The Master.

                          http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up
                          http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNo\
                          \\\mad.pdf
                        • Non
                          On the Truth vs. Fiction part and books from the 1910 era, I found an interesting article about Louise Hay and how her popularity really increased due to her
                          Message 12 of 22 , Dec 8, 2012
                          • 0 Attachment
                            On the Truth vs. Fiction part and books from the 1910 era, I found an interesting article about Louise Hay and how her popularity really increased due to her involvement with the Aids epidemic, especially in California. On the one hand she offered the hope of complete healing, while at the same time giving a disclaimer by saying that the healing may only be spiritual and not necessarily physical. (sounds kind of like what klemp and the like always do!) It is asserted that most of the dogma about the absolute power of positive thought, or whatever, was most popular when science or medicine didn't have clear evidence for a good cure to illness. Those with Aids were being shunned, especially by organized religions. I found this article doing some searches on New Age and Angels.

                            http://www.icsahome.com/logon/elibdocview.asp?Subject=The+Queen+of+the+New+Age+

                            I just thought it was interesting that what is really going on with New Age Religion is 'just a little bit of history repeating'.
                            :D
                            Then again I have come to the conclusion that all religions have their myths and angles to pray to for this or that. You might say that eck masters are just like angels or saints or what have you. It's all kind of the same stuff, just different depending on the culture. Name the religion and there will be variations and even changes as a result of cultural or tribal tendencies. Imagine what ekankar is really like in Africa or India or in the U.S. Has Klemp ever made a trip to Africa?

                            Non ; )

                            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Hello Etznab,
                            > I was reading some
                            > of this book, which
                            > was written in 1913
                            > or 15, and just about
                            > every page sounds
                            > a lot like Twitchell's
                            > various writings.
                            >
                            > Twitchell must have
                            > plagiarized the hell
                            > out of this in order
                            > to create his EK dogma
                            > and to make himself
                            > seem spiritually advanced,
                            > knowledgable, and
                            > wise. And, since PT
                            > was a narcissist he
                            > probably used this
                            > info to impress others,
                            > including Gail, when,
                            > in truth, he was a
                            > mere wannabe, liar,
                            > and plagiarist.
                            >
                            > Prometheus
                            >
                            >
                            > Etznab wrote:
                            >
                            > There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book,
                            > Dialogues With The Master (1970),
                            > called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.
                            >
                            > Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness
                            > (first published in 1913?) - and compare the text
                            > with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to Paul
                            > Twitchell in Dialogues With The Master.
                            >
                            > http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up
                            > http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNo\
                            > \\\mad.pdf
                            >
                          • Russ Rodnick
                            sure does have the same characteristics.  ________________________________ From: prometheus_973 To:
                            Message 13 of 22 , Dec 9, 2012
                            • 0 Attachment
                              sure does have the same characteristics. 


                              From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
                              To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Saturday, December 8, 2012 10:58 PM
                              Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the Sound Current?

                               
                              Hello Etznab,
                              I was reading some
                              of this book, which
                              was written in 1913
                              or 15, and just about
                              every page sounds
                              a lot like Twitchell's
                              various writings.

                              Twitchell must have
                              plagiarized the hell
                              out of this in order
                              to create his EK dogma
                              and to make himself
                              seem spiritually advanced,
                              knowledgable, and
                              wise. And, since PT
                              was a narcissist he
                              probably used this
                              info to impress others,
                              including Gail, when,
                              in truth, he was a
                              mere wannabe, liar,
                              and plagiarist.

                              Prometheus

                              Etznab wrote:

                              There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book,
                              Dialogues With The Master (1970),
                              called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.

                              Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness
                              (first published in 1913?) - and compare the text
                              with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to Paul
                              Twitchell in Dialogues With The Master.

                              http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up
                              http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNo\
                              \\\mad.pdf



                            • Russ Rodnick
                              I was told by a HI who was a featured African seminar speaker, that the Africans seriously regard the chosen one as the mahanta and give them every
                              Message 14 of 22 , Dec 9, 2012
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                                I was told by a HI who was a featured African seminar speaker, that the Africans seriously regard the chosen one as the mahanta and give them every consideration while there; and that thousands of chelas and interested parties show up. 

                                I have thought the eck provided a powerful juju against the black magicians of africa, of which I am told there are many. I know of a chief who possesses knowledge of ways to kill and effect people. He is considered a 'man of power' by those he looks after, here in the states. 

                                This teaching's roots are based on actual metaphysical principles, and I'm afraid that it has developed 'legs' of its own. Add to this the power of belief, and you have a plethora of metaphysical phenomena; which go to the lore and mythology of the teaching/religion. 

                                Like it or not, it will most likely live on. I daresay, some good may come from it. Some sincere people find solace in organized religion, even though it is mostly based on lies. 

                                I still want to know the truth...

                                Russ


                                From: Non <eckchains@...>
                                To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Sunday, December 9, 2012 1:44 AM
                                Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the Sound Current?

                                 
                                On the Truth vs. Fiction part and books from the 1910 era, I found an interesting article about Louise Hay and how her popularity really increased due to her involvement with the Aids epidemic, especially in California. On the one hand she offered the hope of complete healing, while at the same time giving a disclaimer by saying that the healing may only be spiritual and not necessarily physical. (sounds kind of like what klemp and the like always do!) It is asserted that most of the dogma about the absolute power of positive thought, or whatever, was most popular when science or medicine didn't have clear evidence for a good cure to illness. Those with Aids were being shunned, especially by organized religions. I found this article doing some searches on New Age and Angels.

                                http://www.icsahome.com/logon/elibdocview.asp?Subject=The+Queen+of+the+New+Age+

                                I just thought it was interesting that what is really going on with New Age Religion is 'just a little bit of history repeating'.
                                :D
                                Then again I have come to the conclusion that all religions have their myths and angles to pray to for this or that. You might say that eck masters are just like angels or saints or what have you. It's all kind of the same stuff, just different depending on the culture. Name the religion and there will be variations and even changes as a result of cultural or tribal tendencies. Imagine what ekankar is really like in Africa or India or in the U.S. Has Klemp ever made a trip to Africa?

                                Non ; )

                                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Hello Etznab,
                                > I was reading some
                                > of this book, which
                                > was written in 1913
                                > or 15, and just about
                                > every page sounds
                                > a lot like Twitchell's
                                > various writings.
                                >
                                > Twitchell must have
                                > plagiarized the hell
                                > out of this in order
                                > to create his EK dogma
                                > and to make himself
                                > seem spiritually advanced,
                                > knowledgable, and
                                > wise. And, since PT
                                > was a narcissist he
                                > probably used this
                                > info to impress others,
                                > including Gail, when,
                                > in truth, he was a
                                > mere wannabe, liar,
                                > and plagiarist.
                                >
                                > Prometheus
                                >
                                >
                                > Etznab wrote:
                                >
                                > There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book,
                                > Dialogues With The Master (1970),
                                > called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.
                                >
                                > Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness
                                > (first published in 1913?) - and compare the text
                                > with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to Paul
                                > Twitchell in Dialogues With The Master.
                                >
                                > http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up
                                > http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNo Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (13)
                                Recent Activity:
                                .



                              • etznab@aol.com
                                These are only sample excerpts, but will show in the two books where to look. *** Lord Sohang: Man is a spiritual being.     The source of this spiritual
                                Message 15 of 22 , Dec 9, 2012
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                                  These are only sample excerpts, but will show in the two books where to
                                  look.

                                  ***

                                  Lord Sohang:

                                  "Man is a spiritual being.    
                                  "The source of this spiritual Omniscience, you may not, in our
                                  finite intelligence, fully cognize, because full cognition would
                                  preclude the possibility of finite expression.    
                                  "The destiny of man is to dwell in his true home.    
                                  "His true home is that nameless world where dwells the true Lord of
                                  all infinity.    
                                  "The argument of the saviors of the three worlds is that man's
                                  destiny is perfection.    
                                  "Man perfected becomes a god, they say.    
                                  "To become a God in the land of Daswan Dwar is to become immortal.
                                     
                                  "Let me consider what this means, supposing it to be an axiom of
                                  truth.    
                                  "Mortality is subject to change and death. Mortality is the manifest
                                  - the stage upon which man in his life plays many parts.    
                                  "Immortality is what the word implies, Godhood, and recognized in
                                  the mortal 'I am' or, 'Om', the charged word of the Brahman of the
                                  world of Brahm. It stands for the changeless, birthless, deathless,
                                  unamable power that holds the worlds in space, and puts intelligence
                                  into man. [... .]

                                  - Dialogues With The Master, by Paul Twitchell (1970) p. 174

                                  Ali Nomad:

                                  Man is essentially a spiritual being.

                                  The source of this spiritual Omniscience we may not, in our finite
                                  intelligence, fully cognize, because full cognition would preclude the
                                  possibility of finite expression. The destiny of man is perfection. Man
                                  perfected becomes a god.

                                  "Only the gods are immortal," we are told.

                                  Let us consider what this means, supposing it to be an axiom of truth.

                                  Mortality is subject to change and death. Mortality is the
                                  manifest--the stage upon which "man in his life plays many parts."

                                  Immortality, is what the word says it is--godhood re-cognized in the
                                  mortal. "Im" or, "Om"--the more general term--stands for the
                                  Changeless. Birthless. Deathless. Unnamable Power that holds the worlds
                                  in space, and puts intelligence into man. [... .]

                                  http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up/search/omniscience

                                  Lord Sohang:

                                  "Each and every Soul, therefore, in the lower worlds has its spiritual
                                  counterpart - its other half with which it unites on the spiritual
                                  plane, when the time comes for the attainment of the highest goal of
                                  the world of Brahm and that counterpart is the ECK Spirit." (DWTM p.
                                  176)

                                  Ali Nomad:

                                  Each and every SOUL, therefore, has its spiritual counterpart--its
                                  "other half," with which it unites on the spiritual plane, when the
                                  time comes for attainment of immortality.

                                  http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/6/mode/2up/search/counterpart

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: Russ Rodnick <russrodnick@...>
                                  To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
                                  <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Sun, Dec 9, 2012 8:51 am
                                  Subject: Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the
                                  Sound Current?

                                   
                                  sure does have the same characteristics. 


                                  From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
                                  To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Saturday, December 8, 2012 10:58 PM
                                  Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the
                                  Sound Current?


                                    Hello Etznab,
                                  I was reading some
                                  of this book, which
                                  was written in 1913
                                  or 15, and just about
                                  every page sounds
                                  a lot like Twitchell's
                                  various writings.

                                  Twitchell must have
                                  plagiarized the hell
                                  out of this in order
                                  to create his EK dogma
                                  and to make himself
                                  seem spiritually advanced,
                                  knowledgable, and
                                  wise. And, since PT
                                  was a narcissist he
                                  probably used this
                                  info to impress others,
                                  including Gail, when,
                                  in truth, he was a
                                  mere wannabe, liar,
                                  and plagiarist.

                                  Prometheus

                                  Etznab wrote:

                                  There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book,
                                  Dialogues With The Master (1970),
                                  called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.

                                  Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness
                                  (first published in 1913?) - and compare the text
                                  with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to Paul
                                  Twitchell in Dialogues With The Master.

                                  http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up
                                  http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNo\
                                  \\\mad.pdf
                                • prometheus_973
                                  Hello Non and Russ, I too was once involved with metaphysics via The Unity School of Christianity. And, have explored Christian Science, to a degree, as well
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Dec 9, 2012
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                                    Hello Non and Russ,
                                    I too was once involved
                                    with metaphysics via
                                    The Unity School of
                                    Christianity. And, have
                                    explored Christian
                                    Science, to a degree,
                                    as well as other
                                    metaphysical thought
                                    prior to Eckankar.

                                    The danger is that
                                    New Age thought
                                    (Revised Metaphysics),
                                    and religious cults
                                    as Eckankar et al.,
                                    will encourage people
                                    to follow their Faith
                                    in alternative cultish
                                    cures such as positive
                                    thinking, white magic,
                                    homeopathy and other
                                    non orthodox magical/
                                    mystical/natural forms
                                    of medicine/healing.
                                    Healing Crystals anyone?

                                    But, these alternative
                                    treatments only go
                                    so far and these treatments
                                    can sometimes mask
                                    or hide serious health
                                    problems. People can
                                    confuse symptoms
                                    and side-effects and,
                                    via blind faith, will not
                                    seek timely traditional
                                    treatment proven to
                                    help or cure, until, it
                                    becomes too late!

                                    Those who put their
                                    faith and trust in the
                                    ECK and in Klemp and
                                    who think that HUing
                                    will help to heal them
                                    are deluded.

                                    EKists emulate Klemp
                                    with his focus on
                                    alternative medicine,
                                    but even Klemp, after
                                    falling on Black Ice
                                    and breaking his hip,
                                    needed to have surgery
                                    and metal work and
                                    was given pain meds
                                    and even asked for more!

                                    It's true that traditional
                                    medicine and prescription
                                    drugs are a racket of sorts,
                                    but vitamins and herbal
                                    remedies etc. are a racket
                                    too! And that applies to
                                    many other alternative
                                    forms of (metaphysical)
                                    New Age medicine and
                                    health remedies.

                                    Anyway, here's an excerpt
                                    from the below site. To me
                                    it shows a time-line of how
                                    people came to mistrust
                                    traditional medicine and the
                                    role that non traditional religion
                                    or psychic spirituality had
                                    to play.

                                    However, just because
                                    traditional Western Religion
                                    and Medicine had stumbled
                                    together doesn't mean that
                                    they are connected to each
                                    other. Western Medicine is
                                    based upon Science whereas
                                    Religion isn't! Neither Eastern
                                    or Western Religion, or their
                                    sects, are based upon facts.
                                    It's all about dogma based
                                    upon opposing beliefs and
                                    divine authority via revelation.

                                    And, individually, it's mostly
                                    about subjective faith and
                                    belief which is why non-
                                    traditional alternative forms
                                    of "medicine" are connected
                                    to non-traditional New Age
                                    thought and to metaphysics
                                    in general. Personally, I don't
                                    trust Western Medicine or
                                    doctors completely, but
                                    I don't trust Alternative
                                    Medicine at all... unlike
                                    many ECKists. Still, it's
                                    funny seeing ECKists
                                    accepting their Mahanta
                                    sitting in a wheelchair as
                                    though there's no significance
                                    as to how it happened or
                                    that it happened at all.

                                    http://www.icsahome.com/logon/elibdocview.asp?Subject=The+Queen+of+the+New+Age+

                                    "Hay's Religious Science is an example of what the scholar Catherine L. Albanese calls metaphysical religion, a tradition that began spreading in America in the mid-19th century. "For metaphysics," Albanese writes in "A Republic of Mind and Spirit," "religion turns on an individual's experience of `mind' (instead of `heart,' as in evangelicalism)." Metaphysical religion includes intuition or psychic work, clairvoyance and channeling otherworldly figures, and forms of it have been popularized in, for example, Christian Science, which its founder, Mary Baker Eddy, said would allow people to cure disease with prayer, and books like "The Power of Positive Thinking," by the preacher Norman Vincent Peale. What they all have in common — Christian Science; its cousin Religious Science; Peale's 1952 megaseller; and contemporary best sellers like Rhonda Byrne's "The Secret" — is a conviction that proper thinking, rather than religious faith or fervor, is the key to metaphysical power.

                                    Metaphysical religion has frequently stepped into the breach where Western medicine and Western religion will not or cannot go. When I asked The Rev. Wade Adkisson, the current pastor of Hay's old Church of Religious Science, why as a new church in the 1930s it appealed to people, he said: "At that time the medical world was very basic. A doctor carried with him two things: a bottle of whiskey and a knife. So people were looking for alternative methods of healing." Of course, Adkisson says he believes in those alternative methods of healing. If, as he says, "cancer is merely the outpicturing of one's emotional state," then it can be cured with prayer. But he also admits that for marketing mind cures in the 1930s, it helped that traditional medicine was so impoverished."

                                    Non wrote:
                                    >
                                    > On the Truth vs. Fiction part and books from the 1910 era, I found an interesting article about Louise Hay and how her popularity really increased due to her involvement with the Aids epidemic, especially in California. On the one hand she offered the hope of complete healing, while at the same time giving a disclaimer by saying that the healing may only be spiritual and not necessarily physical. (sounds kind of like what klemp and the like always do!) It is asserted that most of the dogma about the absolute power of positive thought, or whatever, was most popular when science or medicine didn't have clear evidence for a good cure to illness. Those with Aids were being shunned, especially by organized religions. I found this article doing some searches on New Age and Angels.
                                    >
                                    http://www.icsahome.com/logon/elibdocview.asp?Subject=The+Queen+of+the+New+Age+
                                    >
                                    > I just thought it was interesting that what is really going on with New Age Religion is 'just a little bit of history repeating'.
                                    > :D
                                    > Then again I have come to the conclusion that all religions have their myths and angles to pray to for this or that. You might say that eck masters are just like angels or saints or what have you. It's all kind of the same stuff, just different depending on the culture. Name the religion and there will be variations and even changes as a result of cultural or tribal tendencies. Imagine what ekankar is really like in Africa or India or in the U.S. Has Klemp ever made a trip to Africa?
                                    >
                                    > Non ; )
                                    >
                                    > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Hello Etznab,
                                    > > I was reading some
                                    > > of this book, which
                                    > > was written in 1913
                                    > > or 15, and just about
                                    > > every page sounds
                                    > > a lot like Twitchell's
                                    > > various writings.
                                    > >
                                    > > Twitchell must have
                                    > > plagiarized the hell
                                    > > out of this in order
                                    > > to create his EK dogma
                                    > > and to make himself
                                    > > seem spiritually advanced,
                                    > > knowledgable, and
                                    > > wise. And, since PT
                                    > > was a narcissist he
                                    > > probably used this
                                    > > info to impress others,
                                    > > including Gail, when,
                                    > > in truth, he was a
                                    > > mere wannabe, liar,
                                    > > and plagiarist.
                                    > >
                                    > > Prometheus
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Etznab wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book,
                                    > > Dialogues With The Master (1970),
                                    > > called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.
                                    > >
                                    > > Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness
                                    > > (first published in 1913?) - and compare the text
                                    > > with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to Paul
                                    > > Twitchell in Dialogues With The Master.
                                    > >
                                    > > http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up
                                    > > http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNo\
                                    > > \\\mad.pdf
                                    > >
                                    >
                                  • Janice Pfeiffer
                                    Thank you Non for your reply.  I guess I understand more about what you said.  Good luck, ... From: Non Subject:
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Dec 9, 2012
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                                      Thank you Non for your reply.  I guess I understand more about what you said.  Good luck,

                                      --- On Wed, 12/5/12, Non <eckchains@...> wrote:

                                      From: Non <eckchains@...>
                                      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the Sound Current?
                                      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                                      Date: Wednesday, December 5, 2012, 8:13 AM

                                       
                                      Janice, I just have to say, that in person I am very shy and soft spoken, it's just that what I say may be disagreeable as it is often to the point, even if I try to express it gently. A friend of mine once sent me a card that said "It is better to be hated for who you are than loved for who you are not." My writing style is different than how I speak. I actually speak slowly and often have problems with people who talk fast. Actually, my main problem might be that in person I am afraid to simply be who I am. I am very sensitive to most people I meet, to a fault and spend more time listening, when I should probably be more spontaneous and even abrasive.

                                      I think you are only seeing one side of me, as I express myself more directly in some of these blogs, and yes I hold in some anger that is more easily expressed in writing. I still have a problem with wanting to trust the cons too much, and yes getting taken. There seems to be more people than I remember who are callous and mean these days. Maybe hard times do that to people. I'm actually too nice in person, but it is based on both a sense of compassion as well as some guilt about my right to just be who I am. Sometimes it is OK to be just plain rude imo and not nice all the time, especially if someone is trying to push their arrogant, dogmatic spirituality/religion onto you.

                                      Non ;)

                                      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer <jepfeiffer@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > I too agree with Prometheus.  He and I have formed a lot of the same concepts it seems.  As far as the soul mate thing, Non, I don't think it is something you can make.  You are just fortunate when you meet some one that feels like an echo from the past.  You just know that you know them and you know so much about each other with out knowing how you know when you first meet.  My soul mate is gone now but we had something right from the start that couldn't be explained in words.  We could speak in half sentences and have perfect understanding.  He knew my thoughts and could feel my feelings.  He knew what I liked with out being told.  We could enjoy silence and not need to talk.  There was just something very real between us that didn't come from the present and didn't make logical sense in the physical world.  I do hope that at some point, you know what I am saying.  It is a very precious thing to have.  Maybe everyone doesn't have it in
                                      > every life time.  It is true that you do express yourself sometimes in a some what abrasive manner but you also show a lot of insight at times and I have seen a lot of compassion in what you say also at times.  In your search, it would help if maybe you weren't quite so blunt with those you don't know well.  Wouldn't it be terrible if you chased a way the very one who does know you but because of a sharp initial few words, doesn't have a chance to take a good look and see that?  My experience when meeting people face to face is if there is a strong pull or a strong repulsion, it most likely does mean, you've known them before.  Sometimes it helps to just stand still and let the other person show you who they are.  About holding on to beliefs; I find religious people need to do that whereas spiritual people tend to change theirs as they evolve with more understanding.  That's what caused most of us to get into eckankar and what caused most of us
                                      > to get out.  I use to feel angry about the lies but now I even feel a little gratitude for eckanar.  I never was one to accept things at face value and I usually wasn't fooled easily but I certainly was by eckankar.  It was a real experience.  It changed my life.  Not in the way, they intended maybe but I am now stronger, even more independent and I now know for the rest of my life, I can never be a part of any organized religious group again.  I think part of the reason I got into eckankar is I thought I needed to find those who were like me and I hoped that was it.  It wasn't but I thought I needed it to be.  Now I know I don't need that.  That's what it taught me.  Through it, I learned something of value about myself so it was a worthwhile experience.  Good luck with your search.  I hope you find just what you want.  Oh, don't forget to stand still; don't rush it and don't push it away.  Sound current and senses is another story for me
                                      > so I won't comment now.  Again, all the best to you now and always. 
                                      > --- On Tue, 12/4/12, Non <eckchains@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > From: Non <eckchains@...>
                                      > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the Sound Current?
                                      > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Date: Tuesday, December 4, 2012, 9:28 AM
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >  
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > I agree with a lot of what you have said here. I don't quite get the Soulmate though. I have been met with mostly great difficulty in actualizing this, even though it sounds quite nice. I am open to experiencing this, yet I am also naturally intuitive and also he who questions a lot and enjoys experimenting and investigating. Most people I meet are into holding tight to their beliefs and don't like being around someone like me, if I am just being myself. For some reason I ruffle feathers so maybe that means I need to stay away from certain Birds. :) I don't know the answer.
                                      >
                                      > As far as the sound current. My experience has been dreams of beautiful music sometimes, but also just feeling. Not everyone is musical. The sound current and light may actually be too limiting. It is based on our two most used human senses, seeing and hearing. There is so much more richness involved. We are lacking in our sense of smell and there are other senses that other animals know and experience that make us look like idiots sometimes. Humans are very arrogant because of our superior ability to manipulate our environment, something that if unchecked can and does cause great havoc, destruction and killing just to kill.
                                      >
                                      > Feeling and intuition is very under rated. Feelings allow us to have compassion and empathy. That is a vibration I wish there was more of. People don't like it, because it also means that we may have to relate to the pain of another, or to our own pain. People are too hardened IMHO. At the same time, bless the ones who act out of compassion to advocate and fight those who are indifferent to at least living with some level of a little empathy. I think they have compassion in them, it is just repressed, and imo is always pushing to express. I dare say, that even klemp and his HI's are so frownish and fakish, because that is how you repress feelings and natural compassion. It is harder for humans, because we are more self-aware. Native American life often at least had sacred rituals for killing to eat. We are lost..... Light and sound meditations may just be a distraction and limiting us from our Whole Being. We cannot cut off a part of ourselves and Be our
                                      > Whole Being, imo.
                                      >
                                      > Non ; )
                                      >
                                      > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > Hello Tyson, Russ, and All,
                                      > > I believe that religious myth
                                      > > was created to explain away
                                      > > the phenomenal, and that
                                      > > religion was created in order
                                      > > to control the masses and,
                                      > > thus, use this undertaking
                                      > > for money, power, greed,
                                      > > status and other self-benefits
                                      > > for the hierarchies.
                                      > >
                                      > > The Blue Light/Blue Star?
                                      > > The human mind/brain
                                      > > functions similarly and
                                      > > when attention is placed
                                      > > upon subjects this produces
                                      > > chemical and electrical
                                      > > reactions. There are even
                                      > > mixed but similar responses
                                      > > to unconscious stimuli.
                                      > > But many people realize
                                      > > all of this but tend to
                                      > > forget it when seeking
                                      > > "spiritual" answers.
                                      > >
                                      > > People should not have
                                      > > faith in the words of
                                      > > others. People should
                                      > > No Longer give others
                                      > > 'the benefit of the doubt.'
                                      > >
                                      > > Yes, we can look at what
                                      > > principles they are sharing
                                      > > in order to help us to
                                      > > achieve a greater realization
                                      > > but we should not limit
                                      > > ourselves from going
                                      > > beyond the realizations
                                      > > and achievements in
                                      > > higher consciousness
                                      > > of those we view as
                                      > > ideals/icons.
                                      > >
                                      > > Thus, the concept of
                                      > > "Master" needs to be
                                      > > revised and eliminated.
                                      > >
                                      > > When the lessons have
                                      > > been taught, via real
                                      > > world examples of
                                      > > living, it then becomes
                                      > > our responsibility
                                      > > to demonstrate what
                                      > > we have learned as
                                      > > it pertains to our
                                      > > own unique individual
                                      > > personality and
                                      > > circumstances. We
                                      > > move-on and into
                                      > > our own unrestricted
                                      > > conscious awareness.
                                      > >
                                      > > IMHO- Jesus, and not
                                      > > always his apostles,
                                      > > taught some really
                                      > > advanced concepts.
                                      > > Too advanced for
                                      > > most of us today!
                                      > >
                                      > > I'll never forget this
                                      > > one Fung Fu episode
                                      > > where Cain ran into
                                      > > some religious fanatics
                                      > > who would not defend
                                      > > themselves and would
                                      > > turn the other cheek.
                                      > > Cain showed them that
                                      > > there was a third response.
                                      > > Instead of becoming
                                      > > a victim of violence,
                                      > > or responding with
                                      > > violence Cain stopped/
                                      > > blocked the violence
                                      > > i.e. punch or object
                                      > > and redirected its
                                      > > intended path.
                                      > >
                                      > > Anyway, I've heard
                                      > > sounds when first
                                      > > starting to mediate
                                      > > via TM. Everyone
                                      > > heard these tones.
                                      > > Generally the mind
                                      > > blocks out these
                                      > > background noises
                                      > > until it quiets down
                                      > > and empties itself.
                                      > > Actually, one can
                                      > > follow these sounds
                                      > > without placing
                                      > > too much attention
                                      > > on them. That's the
                                      > > trick. One doesn't
                                      > > place attention or
                                      > > attachment on any
                                      > > thought, imaginary
                                      > > vision or sound no
                                      > > matter how pleasant.
                                      > >
                                      > > Eventually, this will
                                      > > produce other by-
                                      > > products of awareness
                                      > > such as contentment.
                                      > >
                                      > > I have to say that one
                                      > > must discover their
                                      > > own reality. Don't take
                                      > > my word for anything.
                                      > > Divine Awareness is
                                      > > an individual experience
                                      > > and not a group path.
                                      > > I called it "Divine Awareness"
                                      > > in oder to give this
                                      > > private and personal
                                      > > Discovery by Soul a
                                      > > special designation.
                                      > > By referring to the
                                      > > uniqueness of the
                                      > > individual experience
                                      > > as 'Soul' does likewise.
                                      > >
                                      > > I will have to say that
                                      > > I've had help in validating
                                      > > that there is a Reality
                                      > > beyond the scientific
                                      > > explanations and that
                                      > > of religious dogma.
                                      > >
                                      > > I can only say that
                                      > > the Soulmate concept
                                      > > (IMO) is real in that
                                      > > it helps these Souls
                                      > > to form a special
                                      > > bond in order to merge
                                      > > and harmonize their
                                      > > vibrations and to better
                                      > > 'tune-in' to glimpses
                                      > > of, perhaps, our true
                                      > > origins and potential
                                      > > but also of this Here
                                      > > and Now.
                                      > >
                                      > > Prometheus
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > "Tyson" wrote:
                                      > > The sound current, bani,
                                      > > shabd or nam is real.
                                      > >
                                      > > There is no religion that
                                      > > can claim it as there own.
                                      > >
                                      > > What is fiction is the
                                      > > dependance on a master
                                      > > that is created by religions
                                      > > of the light and sound.
                                      > >
                                      > > Only one initiation is
                                      > > important.
                                      > >
                                      > > Yet faith in a past master
                                      > > such as Christ, Krishna
                                      > > or Guru Nanak is just as
                                      > > valid.
                                      > >
                                      > > There is no mahanta.
                                      > >
                                      > > The blue star is no
                                      > > other than a manifestation
                                      > > created by a meeting
                                      > > between the holy spirit
                                      > > and ones higher self
                                      > > (soul).
                                      > >
                                      > > For Harold to claim to
                                      > > be the blue star is a
                                      > > way to snare the gullible.
                                      > > He is no more the blue
                                      > > star than the second
                                      > > coming of christ.
                                      > >
                                      > > I had heard the rushing
                                      > > wind as a member of
                                      > > eckankar so I wrongly
                                      > > believed that this path
                                      > > must be true.
                                      > >
                                      > > It was meditation on
                                      > > the third eye that brought
                                      > > the rushing wind, not
                                      > > Klemp.
                                      > >
                                      > > Eckankar was taken from
                                      > > the Sihk word Ek Ong Kar.
                                      > > Ek Ong Kar means one
                                      > > divine energy permeates
                                      > > all things.
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Russ wrote:
                                      > > > I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is ex eckist, interviewing
                                      > > David Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.
                                      > >
                                      > > > One of the interviewees, a man made a statement, paraphrasing here, that in
                                      > > his mind it doesn't matter where the writings of eckankar come from because he
                                      > > is finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it's more important to have a
                                      > > connection with the sound current.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > I used to have that exact point of view. What changed for me?
                                      > > >
                                      > > > One thing I used to feel good about when talking about eck was this idea that
                                      > > it has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was synonymous with the sound
                                      > > current.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored for a decade, after
                                      > > becoming a 5th. I could no longer ignore this dissonance, caused by the
                                      > > plaigarism and ultimately this had led to me dropping out of eckankar.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > I have a question concerning the sound current. I experience this sound,
                                      > > sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous to my study of eck. Maybe
                                      > > it isn't important, where you read about it, if you take it as a principle and
                                      > > work with it.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Do you folks think the sound current is bogus? Delusions?
                                      > > >
                                      > > > This is an interesting point because I am interested in truth...
                                      > > >
                                      > > > BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion, good work. But this by
                                      > > itself doesn't go to the underlying issues concerning the question, "What is the
                                      > > Truth regarding the idea of the sound current as a way of connection with the
                                      > > Divine??"
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Thanks,
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Russ
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      >

                                    • Janice Pfeiffer
                                      I can t view the concept of a soulmate being two parts of a whole no matter where it comes from.  I don t believe any of us are half of a whole.  Maybe Paul
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Dec 9, 2012
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                                        I can't view the concept of a soulmate being two parts of a whole no matter where it comes from.  I don't believe any of us are half of a whole.  Maybe Paul needed that concept as a reason for why he fell for Gail. 

                                        --- On Sat, 12/8/12, etznab18 <etznab@...> wrote:

                                        From: etznab18 <etznab@...>
                                        Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the Sound Current?
                                        To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                                        Date: Saturday, December 8, 2012, 5:11 AM

                                         
                                        I don't believe Paul Twitchell reinvented the Soul Mates thing. It looks to me more like he plagiarized, or paraphrased about it (adding his own spin as well, under the guise of Eck Masters, etc.). But hey, Eckankar is not a cult and it's against spiritual law to push one's beliefs on another :) If you don't believe me just read the FAQ section on Eckankar's web site. Look for the question: Is Eckankar a cult?

                                        ***

                                        There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book, Dialogues With The Master (1970), called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.

                                        Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness (first published in 1913?) - and compare the text with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to Paul Twitchell in Dialogues With The Master.

                                        http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up

                                        http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNomad.pdf

                                        ***

                                        Remember that controversial subject of Soul Mates which appeared in Paul Twitche;ll's earlier books (I thought it was TTF, but here is something in DWTM)?

                                        Ali Nomad:

                                        Each and every SOUL, therefore, has its spiritual counterpart--its "other half," with which it unites on the spiritual plane, when the time comes for attainment of immortality.

                                        Lord Sohang:

                                        "Each and every Soul, therefore, in the lower worlds has its spiritual counterpart - its other half with which it unites on the spiritual plane, when the time comes for the attainment of the highest goal of the world of Brahm and that counterpart is the ECK Spirit." (DWTM p. 176)

                                        https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!searchin/alt.religion.eckankar/soul$20mates|sort:date/alt.religion.eckankar/9_e16rhw3gA/3VmvQQ811QsJ

                                        Now of course it depends on who Paul Twitchell is plagiarizing, as the information can vary. It can even appear contradictory. Example:

                                        [...] But unless the union has already been made in heaven through pure love, the physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness, for like all true sacraments it must be entered into and registered upon all planes. (p. 220)
                                        The Law of Divine Love will bring to each Soul its true marriage, a union in perfect purity on all planes. This according to the one life-theory is of course impossible for all; but since reincarnation is a fact, the Soul, through repeated experiences, learns to follow its Divine Guidance, hence will ultimately find its true mate. But they can be spiritually as well as physically married to their mates only when the old accounts of both have been balanced and the old complications set up through the mistakes of the past have been worked out. [... .]. (p. 221)

                                        The Voice Of Isis And Realms Of The Living Dead, by Harriett Augusta Curtiss

                                        http://archive.org/stream/TheVoiceOfIsis2ndEdition/CurtissFhAndHaTheVoiceOfIsis2ndEdition_djvu.txt

                                        Rebazar Tarzs in DWTM:

                                        "Now for the part of union between man and woman. Unless this union has been made on the higher planes through pure thought, the physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness, for like all true sacraments it must be entered into and registered upon all planes.
                                        "The law of divine love will bring to each Soul Its true marriage and union in perfect purity on all planes. This true marriage is that of Soul with the ECK - the polarization of each Soul - not two Souls or man and woman coming together. And, as it is, each Soul will be guided through repeated experience by divine guidance until It finds this true love, the love of ECK through the Mahanta. You can be spiritually as well as physically married to a mate only when the old accounts of both have been balanced, and old complications set up through mistakes of the past have been worked out. (p. 115)

                                        (My guess is that someone revised the original DWTM manuscript since the ECK (all caps) trademark didn't come about until 1968 and the Mahanta term didn't come into vogue until 1969; whereas the DWTM manuscript was reportedly written in 1956!)

                                        Now I remember (I think it was in The Tiger's Fang, Or was it The Eck-Vidya?) some Soul Mates controversy in Eckankar history where I believe Harold Klemp and Eckankar had to "correct" what Paul Twitchell earlier wrote. It was no longer about two people coming together, but a person finding (in so many words) their own "higher self".

                                        I haven't finished checking all the references to Soul Mates in all of Paul's books, so don't just go on what I quoted from DWTM.

                                        ***

                                        Btw, my Yahoo has been bouncing since Nov. 28 so I've been out of the loop since then and hadn't received any posts via email. Just now are catching up.

                                        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Hello Non eckchains and All,
                                        > The Soulmate theory
                                        > phenomena is an interesting
                                        > spiritual perspective
                                        > and is, actually, unlimited
                                        > by conventional New Age
                                        > thought. Eckankar (PT)
                                        > reinvented it with a
                                        > Twin-Soul perspective.
                                        > This is interesting, but
                                        > IMO it shouldn't be limited
                                        > to or by PT's "Twin" Soul
                                        > view and a single pairing
                                        > only.
                                        >
                                        > Thus, the connection that
                                        > some/many Souls have with
                                        > one another (IMO) s/b referred
                                        > to in the plural. Thus, Soulmates
                                        > is more than one pairing.
                                        > Unfortunately, for Eckists,
                                        > Klemp has them locked into
                                        > a "Twin" concept when there
                                        > are Triplets and many more!
                                        > This phenomena can be
                                        > a special connection/attraction
                                        > with lifelong friends, as well,
                                        > and not always be with sexual
                                        > partners.
                                        >
                                        > As far as Klemp's fraud
                                        > and his "frownish and fakish"
                                        > H.I.'s, well, that's to be
                                        > expected when they emulate
                                        > HK's own behaviour via clues
                                        > with the way the EK hierarchy
                                        > is run or the way in which
                                        > he speaks/refers to Joan and/
                                        > or tells his stories.
                                        >
                                        > With Klemp there's a lack
                                        > of forgiveness, compassion,
                                        > and empathy. These are
                                        > missing from Klemp's own
                                        > perspectives in his own life
                                        > stories.
                                        >
                                        > It's easy for him to judge
                                        > others and point out flaws
                                        > or to add "insight" and to
                                        > do EK tweaks on the letters
                                        > sent to him. And, that's
                                        > what Klemp does when
                                        > he "writes" in his hermit
                                        > batty cave.
                                        >
                                        > Thus, many of HK's RESAs
                                        > emulate his lack of empathy,
                                        > compassion, and forgiveness.
                                        > They talk a lot about "love"
                                        > but when it comes to the
                                        > business/spiritual side of
                                        > Eckankar and the "Guidelines,"
                                        > as set forth by HK via the
                                        > ESC, there is not much room
                                        > leftover for the byproducts
                                        > of love.
                                        >
                                        > Look at the way the Higher
                                        > initiations are handed out.
                                        > There are always strings
                                        > attached and it has more
                                        > to do with "Outer" posturing
                                        > and faking it with physical
                                        > requirements. What is said
                                        > or isn't said to the RESA
                                        > or done as a volunteer,
                                        > than with anything else
                                        > or with one's visible goodness,
                                        > has more importance in
                                        > deciding who gets a pink
                                        > slip. It's not love for God.
                                        > Long-time Eckists who
                                        > are loyal and loving and
                                        > are very nice people are
                                        > excluded from becoming
                                        > H.I.s because they haven't
                                        > jumped through enough
                                        > physical hoops of training,
                                        > retraining, volunteering, etc.
                                        >
                                        > Or, maybe they didn't seem
                                        > like a 'take charge" leader
                                        > or have a college education
                                        > and/or were high profile
                                        > professionals. It's amazing
                                        > how petty RESAs can be,
                                        > and these people are the
                                        > "righthand" of Klemp.
                                        >
                                        > In truth, many people who
                                        > left Eckankar did so out of
                                        > frustration caused via neglect
                                        > and unloving behavior towards
                                        > them. Once you've become
                                        > a member their main goal
                                        > has been achieved. From
                                        > there they dangle the carrot
                                        > for the higher initiations
                                        > and, now, make it very
                                        > difficult to achieve the 7th.
                                        > Eckists need to become
                                        > ESAs to become RESAs
                                        > and unless you're already
                                        > an ESA it's, now, much
                                        > more difficult to achieve.
                                        > And, for a 6th ESA to get
                                        > the 7th they, usually, need
                                        > to become a RESA.
                                        >
                                        > Thus, Klemp slowed-down
                                        > Initiations in 1985 due to
                                        > Darwin making 500 new
                                        > 5ths before leaving office.
                                        > So, more that 25 years later
                                        > what is Klemp's excuse for
                                        > not making more H.I.s and
                                        > for not expanding the "outer"
                                        > initiations and their numbers?
                                        >
                                        > It's actually a simple/obvious
                                        > explanation. Klemp is selfish.
                                        >
                                        > Klemp's lack of empathy,
                                        > compassion, forgiveness and
                                        > real, true love for his fellow
                                        > eckists, and the trickle-down
                                        > effect within the EK Hierarchy,
                                        > is why Eckankar and ECKists
                                        > are broken and lost. Their
                                        > delusional faith and fellowship
                                        > (it's a numbers game) is
                                        > what they cling to as do
                                        > all religionists. Yet, as with
                                        > all religionists, their faith
                                        > has the only chosen ones
                                        > who have been gifted with
                                        > special insight into God
                                        > (or whatever name they use).
                                        > EK is simply more of the same
                                        > but tweaked to fit a special
                                        > New Age/Metaphysical mindset.
                                        > It's the Easy Way until those,
                                        > now, with less than 30 plus
                                        > years want a 6th or 7th
                                        > initiation.
                                        >
                                        > Prometheus
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > "Non" eckchains wrote:
                                        > I agree with a lot of what you have said here. I don't quite get the Soulmate
                                        > though. I have been met with mostly great difficulty in actualizing this, even
                                        > though it sounds quite nice. I am open to experiencing this, yet I am also
                                        > naturally intuitive and also he who questions a lot and enjoys experimenting and
                                        > investigating. Most people I meet are into holding tight to their beliefs and
                                        > don't like being around someone like me, if I am just being myself. For some
                                        > reason I ruffle feathers so maybe that means I need to stay away from certain
                                        > Birds. :) I don't know the answer.
                                        >
                                        > As far as the sound current. My experience has been dreams of beautiful music
                                        > sometimes, but also just feeling. Not everyone is musical. The sound current and
                                        > light may actually be too limiting. It is based on our two most used human
                                        > senses, seeing and hearing. There is so much more richness involved. We are
                                        > lacking in our sense of smell and there are other senses that other animals know
                                        > and experience that make us look like idiots sometimes. Humans are very arrogant
                                        > because of our superior ability to manipulate our environment, something that if
                                        > unchecked can and does cause great havoc, destruction and killing just to kill.
                                        >
                                        > Feeling and intuition is very under rated. Feelings allow us to have compassion
                                        > and empathy. That is a vibration I wish there was more of. People don't like it,
                                        > because it also means that we may have to relate to the pain of another, or to
                                        > our own pain. People are too hardened IMHO. At the same time, bless the ones who
                                        > act out of compassion to advocate and fight those who are indifferent to at
                                        > least living with some level of a little empathy. I think they have compassion
                                        > in them, it is just repressed, and imo is always pushing to express. I dare say,
                                        > that even klemp and his HI's are so frownish and fakish, because that is how you
                                        > repress feelings and natural compassion. It is harder for humans, because we are
                                        > more self-aware. Native American life often at least had sacred rituals for
                                        > killing to eat. We are lost..... Light and sound meditations may just be a
                                        > distraction and limiting us from our Whole Being. We cannot cut off a part of
                                        > ourselves and Be our Whole Being, imo.
                                        >
                                        > Non ; )
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > <prometheus wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > Hello Tyson, Russ, and All,
                                        > > I believe that religious myth
                                        > > was created to explain away
                                        > > the phenomenal, and that
                                        > > religion was created in order
                                        > > to control the masses and,
                                        > > thus, use this undertaking
                                        > > for money, power, greed,
                                        > > status and other self-benefits
                                        > > for the hierarchies.
                                        > >
                                        > > The Blue Light/Blue Star?
                                        > > The human mind/brain
                                        > > functions similarly and
                                        > > when attention is placed
                                        > > upon subjects this produces
                                        > > chemical and electrical
                                        > > reactions. There are even
                                        > > mixed but similar responses
                                        > > to unconscious stimuli.
                                        > > But many people realize
                                        > > all of this but tend to
                                        > > forget it when seeking
                                        > > "spiritual" answers.
                                        > >
                                        > > People should not have
                                        > > faith in the words of
                                        > > others. People should
                                        > > No Longer give others
                                        > > 'the benefit of the doubt.'
                                        > >
                                        > > Yes, we can look at what
                                        > > principles they are sharing
                                        > > in order to help us to
                                        > > achieve a greater realization
                                        > > but we should not limit
                                        > > ourselves from going
                                        > > beyond the realizations
                                        > > and achievements in
                                        > > higher consciousness
                                        > > of those we view as
                                        > > ideals/icons.
                                        > >
                                        > > Thus, the concept of
                                        > > "Master" needs to be
                                        > > revised and eliminated.
                                        > >
                                        > > When the lessons have
                                        > > been taught, via real
                                        > > world examples of
                                        > > living, it then becomes
                                        > > our responsibility
                                        > > to demonstrate what
                                        > > we have learned as
                                        > > it pertains to our
                                        > > own unique individual
                                        > > personality and
                                        > > circumstances. We
                                        > > move-on and into
                                        > > our own unrestricted
                                        > > conscious awareness.
                                        > >
                                        > > IMHO- Jesus, and not
                                        > > always his apostles,
                                        > > taught some really
                                        > > advanced concepts.
                                        > > Too advanced for
                                        > > most of us today!
                                        > >
                                        > > I'll never forget this
                                        > > one Fung Fu episode
                                        > > where Cain ran into
                                        > > some religious fanatics
                                        > > who would not defend
                                        > > themselves and would
                                        > > turn the other cheek.
                                        > > Cain showed them that
                                        > > there was a third response.
                                        > > Instead of becoming
                                        > > a victim of violence,
                                        > > or responding with
                                        > > violence Cain stopped/
                                        > > blocked the violence
                                        > > i.e. punch or object
                                        > > and redirected its
                                        > > intended path.
                                        > >
                                        > > Anyway, I've heard
                                        > > sounds when first
                                        > > starting to mediate
                                        > > via TM. Everyone
                                        > > heard these tones.
                                        > > Generally the mind
                                        > > blocks out these
                                        > > background noises
                                        > > until it quiets down
                                        > > and empties itself.
                                        > > Actually, one can
                                        > > follow these sounds
                                        > > without placing
                                        > > too much attention
                                        > > on them. That's the
                                        > > trick. One doesn't
                                        > > place attention or
                                        > > attachment on any
                                        > > thought, imaginary
                                        > > vision or sound no
                                        > > matter how pleasant.
                                        > >
                                        > > Eventually, this will
                                        > > produce other by-
                                        > > products of awareness
                                        > > such as contentment.
                                        > >
                                        > > I have to say that one
                                        > > must discover their
                                        > > own reality. Don't take
                                        > > my word for anything.
                                        > > Divine Awareness is
                                        > > an individual experience
                                        > > and not a group path.
                                        > > I called it "Divine Awareness"
                                        > > in oder to give this
                                        > > private and personal
                                        > > Discovery by Soul a
                                        > > special designation.
                                        > > By referring to the
                                        > > uniqueness of the
                                        > > individual experience
                                        > > as 'Soul' does likewise.
                                        > >
                                        > > I will have to say that
                                        > > I've had help in validating
                                        > > that there is a Reality
                                        > > beyond the scientific
                                        > > explanations and that
                                        > > of religious dogma.
                                        > >
                                        > > I can only say that
                                        > > the Soulmate concept
                                        > > (IMO) is real in that
                                        > > it helps these Souls
                                        > > to form a special
                                        > > bond in order to merge
                                        > > and harmonize their
                                        > > vibrations and to better
                                        > > 'tune-in' to glimpses
                                        > > of, perhaps, our true
                                        > > origins and potential
                                        > > but also of this Here
                                        > > and Now.
                                        > >
                                        > > Prometheus
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > "Tyson" wrote:
                                        > > The sound current, bani,
                                        > > shabd or nam is real.
                                        > >
                                        > > There is no religion that
                                        > > can claim it as there own.
                                        > >
                                        > > What is fiction is the
                                        > > dependance on a master
                                        > > that is created by religions
                                        > > of the light and sound.
                                        > >
                                        > > Only one initiation is
                                        > > important.
                                        > >
                                        > > Yet faith in a past master
                                        > > such as Christ, Krishna
                                        > > or Guru Nanak is just as
                                        > > valid.
                                        > >
                                        > > There is no mahanta.
                                        > >
                                        > > The blue star is no
                                        > > other than a manifestation
                                        > > created by a meeting
                                        > > between the holy spirit
                                        > > and ones higher self
                                        > > (soul).
                                        > >
                                        > > For Harold to claim to
                                        > > be the blue star is a
                                        > > way to snare the gullible.
                                        > > He is no more the blue
                                        > > star than the second
                                        > > coming of christ.
                                        > >
                                        > > I had heard the rushing
                                        > > wind as a member of
                                        > > eckankar so I wrongly
                                        > > believed that this path
                                        > > must be true.
                                        > >
                                        > > It was meditation on
                                        > > the third eye that brought
                                        > > the rushing wind, not
                                        > > Klemp.
                                        > >
                                        > > Eckankar was taken from
                                        > > the Sihk word Ek Ong Kar.
                                        > > Ek Ong Kar means one
                                        > > divine energy permeates
                                        > > all things.
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Russ wrote:
                                        > > > I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is ex eckist, interviewing
                                        > > David Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.
                                        > >
                                        > > > One of the interviewees, a man made a statement, paraphrasing here, that in
                                        > > his mind it doesn't matter where the writings of eckankar come from because he
                                        > > is finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it's more important to have
                                        > a
                                        > > connection with the sound current.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > I used to have that exact point of view. What changed for me?
                                        > > >
                                        > > > One thing I used to feel good about when talking about eck was this idea
                                        > that
                                        > > it has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was synonymous with the
                                        > sound
                                        > > current.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored for a decade, after
                                        > > becoming a 5th. I could no longer ignore this dissonance, caused by the
                                        > > plaigarism and ultimately this had led to me dropping out of eckankar.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > I have a question concerning the sound current. I experience this sound,
                                        > > sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous to my study of eck.
                                        > Maybe
                                        > > it isn't important, where you read about it, if you take it as a principle and
                                        > > work with it.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Do you folks think the sound current is bogus? Delusions?
                                        > > >
                                        > > > This is an interesting point because I am interested in truth...
                                        > > >
                                        > > > BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion, good work. But this by
                                        > > itself doesn't go to the underlying issues concerning the question, "What is
                                        > the
                                        > > Truth regarding the idea of the sound current as a way of connection with the
                                        > > Divine??"
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Thanks,
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Russ
                                        >

                                      • harrisonferrel
                                        I agree. But I also think that most New Age thinking is absurd because it is baseless and without evidence. The soul concept cannot be proven, let alone the
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Dec 10, 2012
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          I agree. But I also think that most New Age thinking is absurd because it is baseless and without evidence. The soul concept cannot be proven, let alone the soulmate idea.



                                          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer <jepfeiffer@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > I can't view the concept of a soulmate being two parts of a whole no matter where it comes from.  I don't believe any of us are half of a whole.  Maybe Paul needed that concept as a reason for why he fell for Gail. 
                                          >
                                          > --- On Sat, 12/8/12, etznab18 <etznab@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > From: etznab18 <etznab@...>
                                          > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the Sound Current?
                                          > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Date: Saturday, December 8, 2012, 5:11 AM
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >  
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > I don't believe Paul Twitchell reinvented the Soul Mates thing. It looks to me more like he plagiarized, or paraphrased about it (adding his own spin as well, under the guise of Eck Masters, etc.). But hey, Eckankar is not a cult and it's against spiritual law to push one's beliefs on another :) If you don't believe me just read the FAQ section on Eckankar's web site. Look for the question: Is Eckankar a cult?
                                          >
                                          > ***
                                          >
                                          > There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book, Dialogues With The Master (1970), called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.
                                          >
                                          > Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness (first published in 1913?) - and compare the text with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to Paul Twitchell in Dialogues With The Master.
                                          >
                                          > http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up
                                          >
                                          > http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNomad.pdf
                                          >
                                          > ***
                                          >
                                          > Remember that controversial subject of Soul Mates which appeared in Paul Twitche;ll's earlier books (I thought it was TTF, but here is something in DWTM)?
                                          >
                                          > Ali Nomad:
                                          >
                                          > Each and every SOUL, therefore, has its spiritual counterpart--its "other half," with which it unites on the spiritual plane, when the time comes for attainment of immortality.
                                          >
                                          > Lord Sohang:
                                          >
                                          > "Each and every Soul, therefore, in the lower worlds has its spiritual counterpart - its other half with which it unites on the spiritual plane, when the time comes for the attainment of the highest goal of the world of Brahm and that counterpart is the ECK Spirit." (DWTM p. 176)
                                          >
                                          > https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!searchin/alt.religion.eckankar/soul$20mates|sort:date/alt.religion.eckankar/9_e16rhw3gA/3VmvQQ811QsJ
                                          >
                                          > Now of course it depends on who Paul Twitchell is plagiarizing, as the information can vary. It can even appear contradictory. Example:
                                          >
                                          > [...] But unless the union has already been made in heaven through pure love, the physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness, for like all true sacraments it must be entered into and registered upon all planes. (p. 220)
                                          > The Law of Divine Love will bring to each Soul its true marriage, a union in perfect purity on all planes. This according to the one life-theory is of course impossible for all; but since reincarnation is a fact, the Soul, through repeated experiences, learns to follow its Divine Guidance, hence will ultimately find its true mate. But they can be spiritually as well as physically married to their mates only when the old accounts of both have been balanced and the old complications set up through the mistakes of the past have been worked out. [... .]. (p. 221)
                                          >
                                          > The Voice Of Isis And Realms Of The Living Dead, by Harriett Augusta Curtiss
                                          >
                                          > http://archive.org/stream/TheVoiceOfIsis2ndEdition/CurtissFhAndHaTheVoiceOfIsis2ndEdition_djvu.txt
                                          >
                                          > Rebazar Tarzs in DWTM:
                                          >
                                          > "Now for the part of union between man and woman. Unless this union has been made on the higher planes through pure thought, the physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness, for like all true sacraments it must be entered into and registered upon all planes.
                                          > "The law of divine love will bring to each Soul Its true marriage and union in perfect purity on all planes. This true marriage is that of Soul with the ECK - the polarization of each Soul - not two Souls or man and woman coming together. And, as it is, each Soul will be guided through repeated experience by divine guidance until It finds this true love, the love of ECK through the Mahanta. You can be spiritually as well as physically married to a mate only when the old accounts of both have been balanced, and old complications set up through mistakes of the past have been worked out. (p. 115)
                                          >
                                          > (My guess is that someone revised the original DWTM manuscript since the ECK (all caps) trademark didn't come about until 1968 and the Mahanta term didn't come into vogue until 1969; whereas the DWTM manuscript was reportedly written in 1956!)
                                          >
                                          > Now I remember (I think it was in The Tiger's Fang, Or was it The Eck-Vidya?) some Soul Mates controversy in Eckankar history where I believe Harold Klemp and Eckankar had to "correct" what Paul Twitchell earlier wrote. It was no longer about two people coming together, but a person finding (in so many words) their own "higher self".
                                          >
                                          > I haven't finished checking all the references to Soul Mates in all of Paul's books, so don't just go on what I quoted from DWTM.
                                          >
                                          > ***
                                          >
                                          > Btw, my Yahoo has been bouncing since Nov. 28 so I've been out of the loop since then and hadn't received any posts via email. Just now are catching up.
                                          >
                                          > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > Hello Non eckchains and All,
                                          > > The Soulmate theory
                                          > > phenomena is an interesting
                                          > > spiritual perspective
                                          > > and is, actually, unlimited
                                          > > by conventional New Age
                                          > > thought. Eckankar (PT)
                                          > > reinvented it with a
                                          > > Twin-Soul perspective.
                                          > > This is interesting, but
                                          > > IMO it shouldn't be limited
                                          > > to or by PT's "Twin" Soul
                                          > > view and a single pairing
                                          > > only.
                                          > >
                                          > > Thus, the connection that
                                          > > some/many Souls have with
                                          > > one another (IMO) s/b referred
                                          > > to in the plural. Thus, Soulmates
                                          > > is more than one pairing.
                                          > > Unfortunately, for Eckists,
                                          > > Klemp has them locked into
                                          > > a "Twin" concept when there
                                          > > are Triplets and many more!
                                          > > This phenomena can be
                                          > > a special connection/attraction
                                          > > with lifelong friends, as well,
                                          > > and not always be with sexual
                                          > > partners.
                                          > >
                                          > > As far as Klemp's fraud
                                          > > and his "frownish and fakish"
                                          > > H.I.'s, well, that's to be
                                          > > expected when they emulate
                                          > > HK's own behaviour via clues
                                          > > with the way the EK hierarchy
                                          > > is run or the way in which
                                          > > he speaks/refers to Joan and/
                                          > > or tells his stories.
                                          > >
                                          > > With Klemp there's a lack
                                          > > of forgiveness, compassion,
                                          > > and empathy. These are
                                          > > missing from Klemp's own
                                          > > perspectives in his own life
                                          > > stories.
                                          > >
                                          > > It's easy for him to judge
                                          > > others and point out flaws
                                          > > or to add "insight" and to
                                          > > do EK tweaks on the letters
                                          > > sent to him. And, that's
                                          > > what Klemp does when
                                          > > he "writes" in his hermit
                                          > > batty cave.
                                          > >
                                          > > Thus, many of HK's RESAs
                                          > > emulate his lack of empathy,
                                          > > compassion, and forgiveness.
                                          > > They talk a lot about "love"
                                          > > but when it comes to the
                                          > > business/spiritual side of
                                          > > Eckankar and the "Guidelines,"
                                          > > as set forth by HK via the
                                          > > ESC, there is not much room
                                          > > leftover for the byproducts
                                          > > of love.
                                          > >
                                          > > Look at the way the Higher
                                          > > initiations are handed out.
                                          > > There are always strings
                                          > > attached and it has more
                                          > > to do with "Outer" posturing
                                          > > and faking it with physical
                                          > > requirements. What is said
                                          > > or isn't said to the RESA
                                          > > or done as a volunteer,
                                          > > than with anything else
                                          > > or with one's visible goodness,
                                          > > has more importance in
                                          > > deciding who gets a pink
                                          > > slip. It's not love for God.
                                          > > Long-time Eckists who
                                          > > are loyal and loving and
                                          > > are very nice people are
                                          > > excluded from becoming
                                          > > H.I.s because they haven't
                                          > > jumped through enough
                                          > > physical hoops of training,
                                          > > retraining, volunteering, etc.
                                          > >
                                          > > Or, maybe they didn't seem
                                          > > like a 'take charge" leader
                                          > > or have a college education
                                          > > and/or were high profile
                                          > > professionals. It's amazing
                                          > > how petty RESAs can be,
                                          > > and these people are the
                                          > > "righthand" of Klemp.
                                          > >
                                          > > In truth, many people who
                                          > > left Eckankar did so out of
                                          > > frustration caused via neglect
                                          > > and unloving behavior towards
                                          > > them. Once you've become
                                          > > a member their main goal
                                          > > has been achieved. From
                                          > > there they dangle the carrot
                                          > > for the higher initiations
                                          > > and, now, make it very
                                          > > difficult to achieve the 7th.
                                          > > Eckists need to become
                                          > > ESAs to become RESAs
                                          > > and unless you're already
                                          > > an ESA it's, now, much
                                          > > more difficult to achieve.
                                          > > And, for a 6th ESA to get
                                          > > the 7th they, usually, need
                                          > > to become a RESA.
                                          > >
                                          > > Thus, Klemp slowed-down
                                          > > Initiations in 1985 due to
                                          > > Darwin making 500 new
                                          > > 5ths before leaving office.
                                          > > So, more that 25 years later
                                          > > what is Klemp's excuse for
                                          > > not making more H.I.s and
                                          > > for not expanding the "outer"
                                          > > initiations and their numbers?
                                          > >
                                          > > It's actually a simple/obvious
                                          > > explanation. Klemp is selfish.
                                          > >
                                          > > Klemp's lack of empathy,
                                          > > compassion, forgiveness and
                                          > > real, true love for his fellow
                                          > > eckists, and the trickle-down
                                          > > effect within the EK Hierarchy,
                                          > > is why Eckankar and ECKists
                                          > > are broken and lost. Their
                                          > > delusional faith and fellowship
                                          > > (it's a numbers game) is
                                          > > what they cling to as do
                                          > > all religionists. Yet, as with
                                          > > all religionists, their faith
                                          > > has the only chosen ones
                                          > > who have been gifted with
                                          > > special insight into God
                                          > > (or whatever name they use).
                                          > > EK is simply more of the same
                                          > > but tweaked to fit a special
                                          > > New Age/Metaphysical mindset.
                                          > > It's the Easy Way until those,
                                          > > now, with less than 30 plus
                                          > > years want a 6th or 7th
                                          > > initiation.
                                          > >
                                          > > Prometheus
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > "Non" eckchains wrote:
                                          > > I agree with a lot of what you have said here. I don't quite get the Soulmate
                                          > > though. I have been met with mostly great difficulty in actualizing this, even
                                          > > though it sounds quite nice. I am open to experiencing this, yet I am also
                                          > > naturally intuitive and also he who questions a lot and enjoys experimenting and
                                          > > investigating. Most people I meet are into holding tight to their beliefs and
                                          > > don't like being around someone like me, if I am just being myself. For some
                                          > > reason I ruffle feathers so maybe that means I need to stay away from certain
                                          > > Birds. :) I don't know the answer.
                                          > >
                                          > > As far as the sound current. My experience has been dreams of beautiful music
                                          > > sometimes, but also just feeling. Not everyone is musical. The sound current and
                                          > > light may actually be too limiting. It is based on our two most used human
                                          > > senses, seeing and hearing. There is so much more richness involved. We are
                                          > > lacking in our sense of smell and there are other senses that other animals know
                                          > > and experience that make us look like idiots sometimes. Humans are very arrogant
                                          > > because of our superior ability to manipulate our environment, something that if
                                          > > unchecked can and does cause great havoc, destruction and killing just to kill.
                                          > >
                                          > > Feeling and intuition is very under rated. Feelings allow us to have compassion
                                          > > and empathy. That is a vibration I wish there was more of. People don't like it,
                                          > > because it also means that we may have to relate to the pain of another, or to
                                          > > our own pain. People are too hardened IMHO. At the same time, bless the ones who
                                          > > act out of compassion to advocate and fight those who are indifferent to at
                                          > > least living with some level of a little empathy. I think they have compassion
                                          > > in them, it is just repressed, and imo is always pushing to express. I dare say,
                                          > > that even klemp and his HI's are so frownish and fakish, because that is how you
                                          > > repress feelings and natural compassion. It is harder for humans, because we are
                                          > > more self-aware. Native American life often at least had sacred rituals for
                                          > > killing to eat. We are lost..... Light and sound meditations may just be a
                                          > > distraction and limiting us from our Whole Being. We cannot cut off a part of
                                          > > ourselves and Be our Whole Being, imo.
                                          > >
                                          > > Non ; )
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > <prometheus wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Hello Tyson, Russ, and All,
                                          > > > I believe that religious myth
                                          > > > was created to explain away
                                          > > > the phenomenal, and that
                                          > > > religion was created in order
                                          > > > to control the masses and,
                                          > > > thus, use this undertaking
                                          > > > for money, power, greed,
                                          > > > status and other self-benefits
                                          > > > for the hierarchies.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > The Blue Light/Blue Star?
                                          > > > The human mind/brain
                                          > > > functions similarly and
                                          > > > when attention is placed
                                          > > > upon subjects this produces
                                          > > > chemical and electrical
                                          > > > reactions. There are even
                                          > > > mixed but similar responses
                                          > > > to unconscious stimuli.
                                          > > > But many people realize
                                          > > > all of this but tend to
                                          > > > forget it when seeking
                                          > > > "spiritual" answers.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > People should not have
                                          > > > faith in the words of
                                          > > > others. People should
                                          > > > No Longer give others
                                          > > > 'the benefit of the doubt.'
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Yes, we can look at what
                                          > > > principles they are sharing
                                          > > > in order to help us to
                                          > > > achieve a greater realization
                                          > > > but we should not limit
                                          > > > ourselves from going
                                          > > > beyond the realizations
                                          > > > and achievements in
                                          > > > higher consciousness
                                          > > > of those we view as
                                          > > > ideals/icons.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Thus, the concept of
                                          > > > "Master" needs to be
                                          > > > revised and eliminated.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > When the lessons have
                                          > > > been taught, via real
                                          > > > world examples of
                                          > > > living, it then becomes
                                          > > > our responsibility
                                          > > > to demonstrate what
                                          > > > we have learned as
                                          > > > it pertains to our
                                          > > > own unique individual
                                          > > > personality and
                                          > > > circumstances. We
                                          > > > move-on and into
                                          > > > our own unrestricted
                                          > > > conscious awareness.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > IMHO- Jesus, and not
                                          > > > always his apostles,
                                          > > > taught some really
                                          > > > advanced concepts.
                                          > > > Too advanced for
                                          > > > most of us today!
                                          > > >
                                          > > > I'll never forget this
                                          > > > one Fung Fu episode
                                          > > > where Cain ran into
                                          > > > some religious fanatics
                                          > > > who would not defend
                                          > > > themselves and would
                                          > > > turn the other cheek.
                                          > > > Cain showed them that
                                          > > > there was a third response.
                                          > > > Instead of becoming
                                          > > > a victim of violence,
                                          > > > or responding with
                                          > > > violence Cain stopped/
                                          > > > blocked the violence
                                          > > > i.e. punch or object
                                          > > > and redirected its
                                          > > > intended path.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Anyway, I've heard
                                          > > > sounds when first
                                          > > > starting to mediate
                                          > > > via TM. Everyone
                                          > > > heard these tones.
                                          > > > Generally the mind
                                          > > > blocks out these
                                          > > > background noises
                                          > > > until it quiets down
                                          > > > and empties itself.
                                          > > > Actually, one can
                                          > > > follow these sounds
                                          > > > without placing
                                          > > > too much attention
                                          > > > on them. That's the
                                          > > > trick. One doesn't
                                          > > > place attention or
                                          > > > attachment on any
                                          > > > thought, imaginary
                                          > > > vision or sound no
                                          > > > matter how pleasant.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Eventually, this will
                                          > > > produce other by-
                                          > > > products of awareness
                                          > > > such as contentment.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > I have to say that one
                                          > > > must discover their
                                          > > > own reality. Don't take
                                          > > > my word for anything.
                                          > > > Divine Awareness is
                                          > > > an individual experience
                                          > > > and not a group path.
                                          > > > I called it "Divine Awareness"
                                          > > > in oder to give this
                                          > > > private and personal
                                          > > > Discovery by Soul a
                                          > > > special designation.
                                          > > > By referring to the
                                          > > > uniqueness of the
                                          > > > individual experience
                                          > > > as 'Soul' does likewise.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > I will have to say that
                                          > > > I've had help in validating
                                          > > > that there is a Reality
                                          > > > beyond the scientific
                                          > > > explanations and that
                                          > > > of religious dogma.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > I can only say that
                                          > > > the Soulmate concept
                                          > > > (IMO) is real in that
                                          > > > it helps these Souls
                                          > > > to form a special
                                          > > > bond in order to merge
                                          > > > and harmonize their
                                          > > > vibrations and to better
                                          > > > 'tune-in' to glimpses
                                          > > > of, perhaps, our true
                                          > > > origins and potential
                                          > > > but also of this Here
                                          > > > and Now.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Prometheus
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > "Tyson" wrote:
                                          > > > The sound current, bani,
                                          > > > shabd or nam is real.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > There is no religion that
                                          > > > can claim it as there own.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > What is fiction is the
                                          > > > dependance on a master
                                          > > > that is created by religions
                                          > > > of the light and sound.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Only one initiation is
                                          > > > important.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Yet faith in a past master
                                          > > > such as Christ, Krishna
                                          > > > or Guru Nanak is just as
                                          > > > valid.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > There is no mahanta.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > The blue star is no
                                          > > > other than a manifestation
                                          > > > created by a meeting
                                          > > > between the holy spirit
                                          > > > and ones higher self
                                          > > > (soul).
                                          > > >
                                          > > > For Harold to claim to
                                          > > > be the blue star is a
                                          > > > way to snare the gullible.
                                          > > > He is no more the blue
                                          > > > star than the second
                                          > > > coming of christ.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > I had heard the rushing
                                          > > > wind as a member of
                                          > > > eckankar so I wrongly
                                          > > > believed that this path
                                          > > > must be true.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > It was meditation on
                                          > > > the third eye that brought
                                          > > > the rushing wind, not
                                          > > > Klemp.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Eckankar was taken from
                                          > > > the Sihk word Ek Ong Kar.
                                          > > > Ek Ong Kar means one
                                          > > > divine energy permeates
                                          > > > all things.
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Russ wrote:
                                          > > > > I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is ex eckist, interviewing
                                          > > > David Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > > One of the interviewees, a man made a statement, paraphrasing here, that in
                                          > > > his mind it doesn't matter where the writings of eckankar come from because he
                                          > > > is finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it's more important to have
                                          > > a
                                          > > > connection with the sound current.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > I used to have that exact point of view. What changed for me?
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > One thing I used to feel good about when talking about eck was this idea
                                          > > that
                                          > > > it has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was synonymous with the
                                          > > sound
                                          > > > current.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored for a decade, after
                                          > > > becoming a 5th. I could no longer ignore this dissonance, caused by the
                                          > > > plaigarism and ultimately this had led to me dropping out of eckankar.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > I have a question concerning the sound current. I experience this sound,
                                          > > > sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous to my study of eck.
                                          > > Maybe
                                          > > > it isn't important, where you read about it, if you take it as a principle and
                                          > > > work with it.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Do you folks think the sound current is bogus? Delusions?
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > This is an interesting point because I am interested in truth...
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion, good work. But this by
                                          > > > itself doesn't go to the underlying issues concerning the question, "What is
                                          > > the
                                          > > > Truth regarding the idea of the sound current as a way of connection with the
                                          > > > Divine??"
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Thanks,
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Russ
                                          > >
                                          >
                                        • etznab@aol.com
                                          I find it suspect whenever the female is downgraded in comparison with the male. In The Tiger s Fang (according to Lord Alakh Lok?): There is more to this law
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Dec 10, 2012
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                                            I find it suspect whenever the female is downgraded in comparison with
                                            the male. In The Tiger's Fang (according to Lord Alakh Lok?):

                                            "There is more to this law than just the issues which have been given
                                            here. No Soul can enter into the worlds above the plane of Sat Lok
                                            without being complete within itself - without having both completed
                                            the cycle of balance and entering into the oneness with its other self,
                                            and both gaining the traits of the other .... and in the end, as it is
                                            said, becoming the male or original Soul as God first put on earth.
                                            This Soul had the qualities which God wanted, but could not be
                                            manifested unless Soul was split into two particular particles, the
                                            negative and the positive, for both to develop." (pp. 85-86)

                                            My comments:

                                            As it is said? Lord Alakh Lok says "as it is said"?

                                            I wonder, Did Paul Twitchell come up with this stuff from Radhasoami
                                            doctrine? Quoting:

                                            "The higher centres in a female form are less capable of being
                                            developed than in a male form. All the centres of Pind, Brahmand and
                                            Dayal Desh do exist in a woman as they do in man. But the centres
                                            higher than Sunn or Daswan Dwar cannot ordinarily be awakened in a
                                            woman. Hence, the highest point to which the spirit or Surat in a
                                            female can rise, is the Daswan Dwar. For higher ascension, the same
                                            Surat or spirit will have to take birth as a man, and perform the
                                            spiritual exercises for awakening higher centres. [... .]"

                                            http://www.rsfaith.org/images/stories/RSFBooks/English/Holy_Epistols_Part_5/holy_epistols_part_5_1.html

                                            Both versions on the subject are highly suspect, IMO. I think people
                                            probably butchered an older form of a story that subsequently took on
                                            Frankenstein form.

                                            I think there are two more sections about Soul Mates that I came across
                                            recently, both from Dialogues With The Master, at least one version of
                                            which appears to be from appropriated text.



                                            -----Original Message-----
                                            From: harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...>
                                            To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
                                            <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
                                            Sent: Mon, Dec 10, 2012 4:26 pm
                                            Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the
                                            Sound Current?

                                             
                                            I agree. But I also think that most New Age thinking is absurd because
                                            it is baseless and without evidence. The soul concept cannot be proven,
                                            let alone the soulmate idea.

                                            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer
                                            <jepfeiffer@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > I can't view the concept of a soulmate being two parts of a whole
                                            no matter where it comes from.  I don't believe any of us are half of
                                            a whole.  Maybe Paul needed that concept as a reason for why he fell
                                            for Gail. 
                                            >
                                            > --- On Sat, 12/8/12, etznab18 <etznab@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > From: etznab18 <etznab@...>
                                            > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the
                                            Sound Current?
                                            > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Date: Saturday, December 8, 2012, 5:11 AM
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >  
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > I don't believe Paul Twitchell reinvented the Soul Mates thing. It
                                            looks to me more like he plagiarized, or paraphrased about it (adding
                                            his own spin as well, under the guise of Eck Masters, etc.). But hey,
                                            Eckankar is not a cult and it's against spiritual law to push one's
                                            beliefs on another :) If you don't believe me just read the FAQ section
                                            on Eckankar's web site. Look for the question: Is Eckankar a cult?
                                            >
                                            > ***
                                            >
                                            > There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book, Dialogues With The
                                            Master (1970), called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.
                                            >
                                            > Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness (first published in
                                            1913?) - and compare the text with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to
                                            Paul Twitchell in Dialogues With The Master.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up
                                            >
                                            >
                                            http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNomad.pdf
                                            >
                                            > ***
                                            >
                                            > Remember that controversial subject of Soul Mates which appeared
                                            in Paul Twitche;ll's earlier books (I thought it was TTF, but here is
                                            something in DWTM)?
                                            >
                                            > Ali Nomad:
                                            >
                                            > Each and every SOUL, therefore, has its spiritual counterpart--its
                                            "other half," with which it unites on the spiritual plane, when the
                                            time comes for attainment of immortality.
                                            >
                                            > Lord Sohang:
                                            >
                                            > "Each and every Soul, therefore, in the lower worlds has its
                                            spiritual counterpart - its other half with which it unites on the
                                            spiritual plane, when the time comes for the attainment of the highest
                                            goal of the world of Brahm and that counterpart is the ECK Spirit."
                                            (DWTM p. 176)
                                            >
                                            >
                                            https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!searchin/alt.religion.eckankar/soul$20mates|sort:date/alt.religion.eckankar/9_e16rhw3gA/3VmvQQ811QsJ
                                            >
                                            > Now of course it depends on who Paul Twitchell is plagiarizing, as
                                            the information can vary. It can even appear contradictory. Example:
                                            >
                                            > [...] But unless the union has already been made in heaven through
                                            pure love, the physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness,
                                            for like all true sacraments it must be entered into and registered
                                            upon all planes. (p. 220)
                                            > The Law of Divine Love will bring to each Soul its true marriage,
                                            a union in perfect purity on all planes. This according to the one
                                            life-theory is of course impossible for all; but since reincarnation is
                                            a fact, the Soul, through repeated experiences, learns to follow its
                                            Divine Guidance, hence will ultimately find its true mate. But they can
                                            be spiritually as well as physically married to their mates only when
                                            the old accounts of both have been balanced and the old complications
                                            set up through the mistakes of the past have been worked out. [... .].
                                            (p. 221)
                                            >
                                            > The Voice Of Isis And Realms Of The Living Dead, by Harriett
                                            Augusta Curtiss
                                            >
                                            >
                                            http://archive.org/stream/TheVoiceOfIsis2ndEdition/CurtissFhAndHaTheVoiceOfIsis2ndEdition_djvu.txt
                                            >
                                            > Rebazar Tarzs in DWTM:
                                            >
                                            > "Now for the part of union between man and woman. Unless this
                                            union has been made on the higher planes through pure thought, the
                                            physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness, for like all
                                            true sacraments it must be entered into and registered upon all planes.
                                            > "The law of divine love will bring to each Soul Its true marriage
                                            and union in perfect purity on all planes. This true marriage is that
                                            of Soul with the ECK - the polarization of each Soul - not two Souls or
                                            man and woman coming together. And, as it is, each Soul will be guided
                                            through repeated experience by divine guidance until It finds this true
                                            love, the love of ECK through the Mahanta. You can be spiritually as
                                            well as physically married to a mate only when the old accounts of both
                                            have been balanced, and old complications set up through mistakes of
                                            the past have been worked out. (p. 115)
                                            >
                                            > (My guess is that someone revised the original DWTM manuscript
                                            since the ECK (all caps) trademark didn't come about until 1968 and the
                                            Mahanta term didn't come into vogue until 1969; whereas the DWTM
                                            manuscript was reportedly written in 1956!)
                                            >
                                            > Now I remember (I think it was in The Tiger's Fang, Or was it The
                                            Eck-Vidya?) some Soul Mates controversy in Eckankar history where I
                                            believe Harold Klemp and Eckankar had to "correct" what Paul Twitchell
                                            earlier wrote. It was no longer about two people coming together, but a
                                            person finding (in so many words) their own "higher self".
                                            >
                                            > I haven't finished checking all the references to Soul Mates in
                                            all of Paul's books, so don't just go on what I quoted from DWTM.
                                            >
                                            > ***
                                            >
                                            > Btw, my Yahoo has been bouncing since Nov. 28 so I've been out of
                                            the loop since then and hadn't received any posts via email. Just now
                                            are catching up.
                                            >
                                            > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
                                            "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > Hello Non eckchains and All,
                                            > > The Soulmate theory
                                            > > phenomena is an interesting
                                            > > spiritual perspective
                                            > > and is, actually, unlimited
                                            > > by conventional New Age
                                            > > thought. Eckankar (PT)
                                            > > reinvented it with a
                                            > > Twin-Soul perspective.
                                            > > This is interesting, but
                                            > > IMO it shouldn't be limited
                                            > > to or by PT's "Twin" Soul
                                            > > view and a single pairing
                                            > > only.
                                            > >
                                            > > Thus, the connection that
                                            > > some/many Souls have with
                                            > > one another (IMO) s/b referred
                                            > > to in the plural. Thus, Soulmates
                                            > > is more than one pairing.
                                            > > Unfortunately, for Eckists,
                                            > > Klemp has them locked into
                                            > > a "Twin" concept when there
                                            > > are Triplets and many more!
                                            > > This phenomena can be
                                            > > a special connection/attraction
                                            > > with lifelong friends, as well,
                                            > > and not always be with sexual
                                            > > partners.
                                            > >
                                            > > As far as Klemp's fraud
                                            > > and his "frownish and fakish"
                                            > > H.I.'s, well, that's to be
                                            > > expected when they emulate
                                            > > HK's own behaviour via clues
                                            > > with the way the EK hierarchy
                                            > > is run or the way in which
                                            > > he speaks/refers to Joan and/
                                            > > or tells his stories.
                                            > >
                                            > > With Klemp there's a lack
                                            > > of forgiveness, compassion,
                                            > > and empathy. These are
                                            > > missing from Klemp's own
                                            > > perspectives in his own life
                                            > > stories.
                                            > >
                                            > > It's easy for him to judge
                                            > > others and point out flaws
                                            > > or to add "insight" and to
                                            > > do EK tweaks on the letters
                                            > > sent to him. And, that's
                                            > > what Klemp does when
                                            > > he "writes" in his hermit
                                            > > batty cave.
                                            > >
                                            > > Thus, many of HK's RESAs
                                            > > emulate his lack of empathy,
                                            > > compassion, and forgiveness.
                                            > > They talk a lot about "love"
                                            > > but when it comes to the
                                            > > business/spiritual side of
                                            > > Eckankar and the "Guidelines,"
                                            > > as set forth by HK via the
                                            > > ESC, there is not much room
                                            > > leftover for the byproducts
                                            > > of love.
                                            > >
                                            > > Look at the way the Higher
                                            > > initiations are handed out.
                                            > > There are always strings
                                            > > attached and it has more
                                            > > to do with "Outer" posturing
                                            > > and faking it with physical
                                            > > requirements. What is said
                                            > > or isn't said to the RESA
                                            > > or done as a volunteer,
                                            > > than with anything else
                                            > > or with one's visible goodness,
                                            > > has more importance in
                                            > > deciding who gets a pink
                                            > > slip. It's not love for God.
                                            > > Long-time Eckists who
                                            > > are loyal and loving and
                                            > > are very nice people are
                                            > > excluded from becoming
                                            > > H.I.s because they haven't
                                            > > jumped through enough
                                            > > physical hoops of training,
                                            > > retraining, volunteering, etc.
                                            > >
                                            > > Or, maybe they didn't seem
                                            > > like a 'take charge" leader
                                            > > or have a college education
                                            > > and/or were high profile
                                            > > professionals. It's amazing
                                            > > how petty RESAs can be,
                                            > > and these people are the
                                            > > "righthand" of Klemp.
                                            > >
                                            > > In truth, many people who
                                            > > left Eckankar did so out of
                                            > > frustration caused via neglect
                                            > > and unloving behavior towards
                                            > > them. Once you've become
                                            > > a member their main goal
                                            > > has been achieved. From
                                            > > there they dangle the carrot
                                            > > for the higher initiations
                                            > > and, now, make it very
                                            > > difficult to achieve the 7th.
                                            > > Eckists need to become
                                            > > ESAs to become RESAs
                                            > > and unless you're already
                                            > > an ESA it's, now, much
                                            > > more difficult to achieve.
                                            > > And, for a 6th ESA to get
                                            > > the 7th they, usually, need
                                            > > to become a RESA.
                                            > >
                                            > > Thus, Klemp slowed-down
                                            > > Initiations in 1985 due to
                                            > > Darwin making 500 new
                                            > > 5ths before leaving office.
                                            > > So, more that 25 years later
                                            > > what is Klemp's excuse for
                                            > > not making more H.I.s and
                                            > > for not expanding the "outer"
                                            > > initiations and their numbers?
                                            > >
                                            > > It's actually a simple/obvious
                                            > > explanation. Klemp is selfish.
                                            > >
                                            > > Klemp's lack of empathy,
                                            > > compassion, forgiveness and
                                            > > real, true love for his fellow
                                            > > eckists, and the trickle-down
                                            > > effect within the EK Hierarchy,
                                            > > is why Eckankar and ECKists
                                            > > are broken and lost. Their
                                            > > delusional faith and fellowship
                                            > > (it's a numbers game) is
                                            > > what they cling to as do
                                            > > all religionists. Yet, as with
                                            > > all religionists, their faith
                                            > > has the only chosen ones
                                            > > who have been gifted with
                                            > > special insight into God
                                            > > (or whatever name they use).
                                            > > EK is simply more of the same
                                            > > but tweaked to fit a special
                                            > > New Age/Metaphysical mindset.
                                            > > It's the Easy Way until those,
                                            > > now, with less than 30 plus
                                            > > years want a 6th or 7th
                                            > > initiation.
                                            > >
                                            > > Prometheus
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > "Non" eckchains wrote:
                                            > > I agree with a lot of what you have said here. I don't quite
                                            get the Soulmate
                                            > > though. I have been met with mostly great difficulty in
                                            actualizing this, even
                                            > > though it sounds quite nice. I am open to experiencing this,
                                            yet I am also
                                            > > naturally intuitive and also he who questions a lot and
                                            enjoys experimenting and
                                            > > investigating. Most people I meet are into holding tight to
                                            their beliefs and
                                            > > don't like being around someone like me, if I am just being
                                            myself. For some
                                            > > reason I ruffle feathers so maybe that means I need to stay
                                            away from certain
                                            > > Birds. :) I don't know the answer.
                                            > >
                                            > > As far as the sound current. My experience has been dreams of
                                            beautiful music
                                            > > sometimes, but also just feeling. Not everyone is musical.
                                            The sound current and
                                            > > light may actually be too limiting. It is based on our two
                                            most used human
                                            > > senses, seeing and hearing. There is so much more richness
                                            involved. We are
                                            > > lacking in our sense of smell and there are other senses that
                                            other animals know
                                            > > and experience that make us look like idiots sometimes.
                                            Humans are very arrogant
                                            > > because of our superior ability to manipulate our
                                            environment, something that if
                                            > > unchecked can and does cause great havoc, destruction and
                                            killing just to kill.
                                            > >
                                            > > Feeling and intuition is very under rated. Feelings allow us
                                            to have compassion
                                            > > and empathy. That is a vibration I wish there was more of.
                                            People don't like it,
                                            > > because it also means that we may have to relate to the pain
                                            of another, or to
                                            > > our own pain. People are too hardened IMHO. At the same time,
                                            bless the ones who
                                            > > act out of compassion to advocate and fight those who are
                                            indifferent to at
                                            > > least living with some level of a little empathy. I think
                                            they have compassion
                                            > > in them, it is just repressed, and imo is always pushing to
                                            express. I dare say,
                                            > > that even klemp and his HI's are so frownish and fakish,
                                            because that is how you
                                            > > repress feelings and natural compassion. It is harder for
                                            humans, because we are
                                            > > more self-aware. Native American life often at least had
                                            sacred rituals for
                                            > > killing to eat. We are lost..... Light and sound meditations
                                            may just be a
                                            > > distraction and limiting us from our Whole Being. We cannot
                                            cut off a part of
                                            > > ourselves and Be our Whole Being, imo.
                                            > >
                                            > > Non ; )
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > <prometheus wrote:
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Hello Tyson, Russ, and All,
                                            > > > I believe that religious myth
                                            > > > was created to explain away
                                            > > > the phenomenal, and that
                                            > > > religion was created in order
                                            > > > to control the masses and,
                                            > > > thus, use this undertaking
                                            > > > for money, power, greed,
                                            > > > status and other self-benefits
                                            > > > for the hierarchies.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > The Blue Light/Blue Star?
                                            > > > The human mind/brain
                                            > > > functions similarly and
                                            > > > when attention is placed
                                            > > > upon subjects this produces
                                            > > > chemical and electrical
                                            > > > reactions. There are even
                                            > > > mixed but similar responses
                                            > > > to unconscious stimuli.
                                            > > > But many people realize
                                            > > > all of this but tend to
                                            > > > forget it when seeking
                                            > > > "spiritual" answers.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > People should not have
                                            > > > faith in the words of
                                            > > > others. People should
                                            > > > No Longer give others
                                            > > > 'the benefit of the doubt.'
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Yes, we can look at what
                                            > > > principles they are sharing
                                            > > > in order to help us to
                                            > > > achieve a greater realization
                                            > > > but we should not limit
                                            > > > ourselves from going
                                            > > > beyond the realizations
                                            > > > and achievements in
                                            > > > higher consciousness
                                            > > > of those we view as
                                            > > > ideals/icons.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Thus, the concept of
                                            > > > "Master" needs to be
                                            > > > revised and eliminated.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > When the lessons have
                                            > > > been taught, via real
                                            > > > world examples of
                                            > > > living, it then becomes
                                            > > > our responsibility
                                            > > > to demonstrate what
                                            > > > we have learned as
                                            > > > it pertains to our
                                            > > > own unique individual
                                            > > > personality and
                                            > > > circumstances. We
                                            > > > move-on and into
                                            > > > our own unrestricted
                                            > > > conscious awareness.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > IMHO- Jesus, and not
                                            > > > always his apostles,
                                            > > > taught some really
                                            > > > advanced concepts.
                                            > > > Too advanced for
                                            > > > most of us today!
                                            > > >
                                            > > > I'll never forget this
                                            > > > one Fung Fu episode
                                            > > > where Cain ran into
                                            > > > some religious fanatics
                                            > > > who would not defend
                                            > > > themselves and would
                                            > > > turn the other cheek.
                                            > > > Cain showed them that
                                            > > > there was a third response.
                                            > > > Instead of becoming
                                            > > > a victim of violence,
                                            > > > or responding with
                                            > > > violence Cain stopped/
                                            > > > blocked the violence
                                            > > > i.e. punch or object
                                            > > > and redirected its
                                            > > > intended path.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Anyway, I've heard
                                            > > > sounds when first
                                            > > > starting to mediate
                                            > > > via TM. Everyone
                                            > > > heard these tones.
                                            > > > Generally the mind
                                            > > > blocks out these
                                            > > > background noises
                                            > > > until it quiets down
                                            > > > and empties itself.
                                            > > > Actually, one can
                                            > > > follow these sounds
                                            > > > without placing
                                            > > > too much attention
                                            > > > on them. That's the
                                            > > > trick. One doesn't
                                            > > > place attention or
                                            > > > attachment on any
                                            > > > thought, imaginary
                                            > > > vision or sound no
                                            > > > matter how pleasant.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Eventually, this will
                                            > > > produce other by-
                                            > > > products of awareness
                                            > > > such as contentment.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > I have to say that one
                                            > > > must discover their
                                            > > > own reality. Don't take
                                            > > > my word for anything.
                                            > > > Divine Awareness is
                                            > > > an individual experience
                                            > > > and not a group path.
                                            > > > I called it "Divine Awareness"
                                            > > > in oder to give this
                                            > > > private and personal
                                            > > > Discovery by Soul a
                                            > > > special designation.
                                            > > > By referring to the
                                            > > > uniqueness of the
                                            > > > individual experience
                                            > > > as 'Soul' does likewise.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > I will have to say that
                                            > > > I've had help in validating
                                            > > > that there is a Reality
                                            > > > beyond the scientific
                                            > > > explanations and that
                                            > > > of religious dogma.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > I can only say that
                                            > > > the Soulmate concept
                                            > > > (IMO) is real in that
                                            > > > it helps these Souls
                                            > > > to form a special
                                            > > > bond in order to merge
                                            > > > and harmonize their
                                            > > > vibrations and to better
                                            > > > 'tune-in' to glimpses
                                            > > > of, perhaps, our true
                                            > > > origins and potential
                                            > > > but also of this Here
                                            > > > and Now.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Prometheus
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > "Tyson" wrote:
                                            > > > The sound current, bani,
                                            > > > shabd or nam is real.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > There is no religion that
                                            > > > can claim it as there own.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > What is fiction is the
                                            > > > dependance on a master
                                            > > > that is created by religions
                                            > > > of the light and sound.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Only one initiation is
                                            > > > important.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Yet faith in a past master
                                            > > > such as Christ, Krishna
                                            > > > or Guru Nanak is just as
                                            > > > valid.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > There is no mahanta.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > The blue star is no
                                            > > > other than a manifestation
                                            > > > created by a meeting
                                            > > > between the holy spirit
                                            > > > and ones higher self
                                            > > > (soul).
                                            > > >
                                            > > > For Harold to claim to
                                            > > > be the blue star is a
                                            > > > way to snare the gullible.
                                            > > > He is no more the blue
                                            > > > star than the second
                                            > > > coming of christ.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > I had heard the rushing
                                            > > > wind as a member of
                                            > > > eckankar so I wrongly
                                            > > > believed that this path
                                            > > > must be true.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > It was meditation on
                                            > > > the third eye that brought
                                            > > > the rushing wind, not
                                            > > > Klemp.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Eckankar was taken from
                                            > > > the Sihk word Ek Ong Kar.
                                            > > > Ek Ong Kar means one
                                            > > > divine energy permeates
                                            > > > all things.
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Russ wrote:
                                            > > > > I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is
                                            ex eckist, interviewing
                                            > > > David Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > > One of the interviewees, a man made a statement,
                                            paraphrasing here, that in
                                            > > > his mind it doesn't matter where the writings of
                                            eckankar come from because he
                                            > > > is finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it's
                                            more important to have
                                            > > a
                                            > > > connection with the sound current.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > I used to have that exact point of view. What
                                            changed for me?
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > One thing I used to feel good about when talking
                                            about eck was this idea
                                            > > that
                                            > > > it has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was
                                            synonymous with the
                                            > > sound
                                            > > > current.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored
                                            for a decade, after
                                            > > > becoming a 5th. I could no longer ignore this
                                            dissonance, caused by the
                                            > > > plaigarism and ultimately this had led to me dropping
                                            out of eckankar.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > I have a question concerning the sound current. I
                                            experience this sound,
                                            > > > sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous to
                                            my study of eck.
                                            > > Maybe
                                            > > > it isn't important, where you read about it, if you take
                                            it as a principle and
                                            > > > work with it.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Do you folks think the sound current is bogus?
                                            Delusions?
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > This is an interesting point because I am
                                            interested in truth...
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion,
                                            good work. But this by
                                            > > > itself doesn't go to the underlying issues concerning
                                            the question, "What is
                                            > > the
                                            > > > Truth regarding the idea of the sound current as a way
                                            of connection with the
                                            > > > Divine??"
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Thanks,
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Russ
                                            > >
                                            >
                                          • prometheus_973
                                            Hello Etznab and All, Yes, it makes me suspicious of any religious dogma that degrades women. Just how spiritual and advanced can it really be? It s Not!
                                            Message 21 of 22 , Dec 10, 2012
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Hello Etznab and All,
                                              Yes, it makes me suspicious
                                              of any religious dogma that
                                              degrades women. Just how
                                              "spiritual" and advanced
                                              can it really be? It's Not!

                                              But, since the Boy's Clubs
                                              of the World seem to run
                                              things it's no wonder this
                                              anti-female crap is written
                                              in all religious dogma.

                                              Sant Mat, which Twitchell
                                              "borrowed from" was no
                                              more advanced than all
                                              other "spiritual" sources
                                              that Twitchell used to
                                              "Compile" his male chauvinist
                                              dogma. Those male/female
                                              atoms and positive/negative
                                              batteries where the LEM
                                              has to be a male because
                                              women can't handle the
                                              Rod of Power is pure fiction.
                                              This is such a stupid ekplanation
                                              that you have to be brain-
                                              washed to believe it. BTW-
                                              I wonder what the "Rod"
                                              really symbolizes?

                                              Anyway, this is one more
                                              topic of PT's, and of Klemp's,
                                              that doesn't get closer
                                              scrutiny nor is it ever discussed
                                              using logic, common sense,
                                              or intellect. Actually, it's
                                              never discussed because
                                              there's no point right or
                                              wrong, the case is closed!
                                              Remember, HK has said,
                                              "Eckankar is a hierarchy
                                              and not a Democracy." But,
                                              isn't our government both
                                              a hierarchy and a democracy?

                                              Since Klemp claims to be
                                              imperfect and points out
                                              that Twitchell exaggerated
                                              shouldn't PT's Male requirement
                                              for the LEM position be revisited,
                                              investigated, and explained?

                                              Are there any EKists who
                                              are doctors, engineers or
                                              scientists? I'd like them to
                                              explain how the neg/pos
                                              male/female battery thing
                                              works with the physical body
                                              and why one needs to be
                                              a male in order to be the
                                              LEM in the Lower Planes,
                                              especially, here on earth!

                                              Prometheus

                                              etznab wrote:
                                              I find it suspect whenever the female is downgraded in comparison with
                                              the male. In The Tiger's Fang (according to Lord Alakh Lok?):

                                              "There is more to this law than just the issues which have been given
                                              here. No Soul can enter into the worlds above the plane of Sat Lok
                                              without being complete within itself - without having both completed
                                              the cycle of balance and entering into the oneness with its other self,
                                              and both gaining the traits of the other .... and in the end, as it is
                                              said, becoming the male or original Soul as God first put on earth.
                                              This Soul had the qualities which God wanted, but could not be
                                              manifested unless Soul was split into two particular particles, the
                                              negative and the positive, for both to develop." (pp. 85-86)

                                              My comments:

                                              As it is said? Lord Alakh Lok says "as it is said"?

                                              I wonder, Did Paul Twitchell come up with this stuff from Radhasoami
                                              doctrine? Quoting:

                                              "The higher centres in a female form are less capable of being
                                              developed than in a male form. All the centres of Pind, Brahmand and
                                              Dayal Desh do exist in a woman as they do in man. But the centres
                                              higher than Sunn or Daswan Dwar cannot ordinarily be awakened in a
                                              woman. Hence, the highest point to which the spirit or Surat in a
                                              female can rise, is the Daswan Dwar. For higher ascension, the same
                                              Surat or spirit will have to take birth as a man, and perform the
                                              spiritual exercises for awakening higher centres. [... .]"

                                              http://www.rsfaith.org/images/stories/RSFBooks/English/Holy_Epistols_Part_5/holy\
                                              _epistols_part_5_1.html

                                              Both versions on the subject are highly suspect, IMO. I think people
                                              probably butchered an older form of a story that subsequently took on
                                              Frankenstein form.

                                              I think there are two more sections about Soul Mates that I came across
                                              recently, both from Dialogues With The Master, at least one version of
                                              which appears to be from appropriated text.



                                              -----Original Message-----
                                              From: harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...>


                                              I agree. But I also think that most New Age thinking is absurd because
                                              it is baseless and without evidence. The soul concept cannot be proven,
                                              let alone the soulmate idea.

                                              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer
                                              <jepfeiffer@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > I can't view the concept of a soulmate being two parts of a whole
                                              no matter where it comes from. I don't believe any of us are half of
                                              a whole. Maybe Paul needed that concept as a reason for why he fell
                                              for Gail.ÂÂ
                                              >
                                              etznab wrote:

                                              >
                                              > I don't believe Paul Twitchell reinvented the Soul Mates thing. It
                                              looks to me more like he plagiarized, or paraphrased about it (adding
                                              his own spin as well, under the guise of Eck Masters, etc.). But hey,
                                              Eckankar is not a cult and it's against spiritual law to push one's
                                              beliefs on another :) If you don't believe me just read the FAQ section
                                              on Eckankar's web site. Look for the question: Is Eckankar a cult?
                                              >
                                              > ***
                                              >
                                              > There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book, Dialogues With The
                                              Master (1970), called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.
                                              >
                                              > Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness (first published in
                                              1913?) - and compare the text with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to
                                              Paul Twitchell in Dialogues With The Master.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up
                                              >
                                              >
                                              http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNo\
                                              mad.pdf
                                              >
                                              > ***
                                              >
                                              > Remember that controversial subject of Soul Mates which appeared
                                              in Paul Twitche;ll's earlier books (I thought it was TTF, but here is
                                              something in DWTM)?
                                              >
                                              > Ali Nomad:
                                              >
                                              > Each and every SOUL, therefore, has its spiritual counterpart--its
                                              "other half," with which it unites on the spiritual plane, when the
                                              time comes for attainment of immortality.
                                              >
                                              > Lord Sohang:
                                              >
                                              > "Each and every Soul, therefore, in the lower worlds has its
                                              spiritual counterpart - its other half with which it unites on the
                                              spiritual plane, when the time comes for the attainment of the highest
                                              goal of the world of Brahm and that counterpart is the ECK Spirit."
                                              (DWTM p. 176)
                                              >
                                              >
                                              https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!searchin/alt.religion.eck\
                                              ankar/soul$20mates|sort:date/alt.religion.eckankar/9_e16rhw3gA/3VmvQQ811QsJ
                                              >
                                              > Now of course it depends on who Paul Twitchell is plagiarizing, as
                                              the information can vary. It can even appear contradictory. Example:
                                              >
                                              > [...] But unless the union has already been made in heaven through
                                              pure love, the physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness,
                                              for like all true sacraments it must be entered into and registered
                                              upon all planes. (p. 220)

                                              > The Law of Divine Love will bring to each Soul its true marriage,
                                              a union in perfect purity on all planes. This according to the one
                                              life-theory is of course impossible for all; but since reincarnation is
                                              a fact, the Soul, through repeated experiences, learns to follow its
                                              Divine Guidance, hence will ultimately find its true mate. But they can
                                              be spiritually as well as physically married to their mates only when
                                              the old accounts of both have been balanced and the old complications
                                              set up through the mistakes of the past have been worked out. [... .].
                                              (p. 221)
                                              >
                                              > The Voice Of Isis And Realms Of The Living Dead, by Harriett
                                              Augusta Curtiss
                                              >
                                              >
                                              http://archive.org/stream/TheVoiceOfIsis2ndEdition/CurtissFhAndHaTheVoiceOfIsis2\
                                              ndEdition_djvu.txt
                                              >
                                              > Rebazar Tarzs in DWTM:
                                              >
                                              > "Now for the part of union between man and woman. Unless this
                                              union has been made on the higher planes through pure thought, the
                                              physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness, for like all
                                              true sacraments it must be entered into and registered upon all planes.
                                              > "The law of divine love will bring to each Soul Its true marriage
                                              and union in perfect purity on all planes. This true marriage is that
                                              of Soul with the ECK - the polarization of each Soul - not two Souls or
                                              man and woman coming together. And, as it is, each Soul will be guided
                                              through repeated experience by divine guidance until It finds this true
                                              love, the love of ECK through the Mahanta. You can be spiritually as
                                              well as physically married to a mate only when the old accounts of both
                                              have been balanced, and old complications set up through mistakes of
                                              the past have been worked out. (p. 115)
                                              >
                                              > (My guess is that someone revised the original DWTM manuscript
                                              since the ECK (all caps) trademark didn't come about until 1968 and the
                                              Mahanta term didn't come into vogue until 1969; whereas the DWTM
                                              manuscript was reportedly written in 1956!)
                                              >
                                              > Now I remember (I think it was in The Tiger's Fang, Or was it The
                                              Eck-Vidya?) some Soul Mates controversy in Eckankar history where I
                                              believe Harold Klemp and Eckankar had to "correct" what Paul Twitchell
                                              earlier wrote. It was no longer about two people coming together, but a
                                              person finding (in so many words) their own "higher self".
                                              >
                                              > I haven't finished checking all the references to Soul Mates in
                                              all of Paul's books, so don't just go on what I quoted from DWTM.
                                              >
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