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Truth vs. Fiction of the Sound Current?

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  • russrodnick
    I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is ex eckist, interviewing David Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area. One of the interviewees, a man
    Message 1 of 22 , Nov 30, 2012
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      I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is ex eckist, interviewing David Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.
      One of the interviewees, a man made a statement, paraphrasing here, that in his mind it doesn't matter where the writings of eckankar come from because he is finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it's more important to have a connection with the sound current.

      I used to have that exact point of view. What changed for me?

      One thing I used to feel good about when talking about eck was this idea that it has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was synonymous with the sound current.

      It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored for a decade, after becoming a 5th. I could no longer ignore this dissonance, caused by the plaigarism and ultimately this had led to me dropping out of eckankar.

      I have a question concerning the sound current. I experience this sound, sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous to my study of eck. Maybe it isn't important, where you read about it, if you take it as a principle and work with it.

      Do you folks think the sound current is bogus? Delusions?

      This is an interesting point because I am interested in truth...

      BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion, good work. But this by itself doesn't go to the underlying issues concerning the question, "What is the Truth regarding the idea of the sound current as a way of connection with the Divine??"

      Thanks,

      Russ
    • Tyson
      ... The sound current,bani,shabd or nam is real. There is no religion that can claim it as there own. What is fiction is the dependance on a master that is
      Message 2 of 22 , Nov 30, 2012
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        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "russrodnick" <russrodnick@...> wrote:
        >
        > I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is ex eckist, interviewing David Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.
        > One of the interviewees, a man made a statement, paraphrasing here, that in his mind it doesn't matter where the writings of eckankar come from because he is finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it's more important to have a connection with the sound current.
        >
        > I used to have that exact point of view. What changed for me?
        >
        > One thing I used to feel good about when talking about eck was this idea that it has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was synonymous with the sound current.
        >
        > It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored for a decade, after becoming a 5th. I could no longer ignore this dissonance, caused by the plaigarism and ultimately this had led to me dropping out of eckankar.
        >
        > I have a question concerning the sound current. I experience this sound, sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous to my study of eck. Maybe it isn't important, where you read about it, if you take it as a principle and work with it.
        >
        > Do you folks think the sound current is bogus? Delusions?
        >
        > This is an interesting point because I am interested in truth...
        >
        > BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion, good work. But this by itself doesn't go to the underlying issues concerning the question, "What is the Truth regarding the idea of the sound current as a way of connection with the Divine??"
        >
        > Thanks,
        >
        > Russ
        >
        The sound current,bani,shabd or nam is real. There is no religion that can claim it as there own. What is fiction is the dependance on a master that is created by religions of the light and sound. Only one initiation is important. Yet faith in a past master such as Christ,Krishna or Guru Nanak is just as valid. There is no mahanta. The blue star is no other than a manifestation created by a meeting between the holy spirit and ones higher self(soul). For Harold to claim to be the blue star is a way to snare the gullible. He is no more the blue star than the second coming of christ. I had heard the rushing wind as a member of eckankar so I wrongly believed that this path must be true. It was meditation on the third eye that brought the rushing wind,not Klemp. Eckankar was taken from the Sihk word Ek Ong Kar. Ek Ong Kar means one divine energy permeates all things.
      • prometheus_973
        Hello Tyson, Russ, and All, I believe that religious myth was created to explain away the phenomenal, and that religion was created in order to control the
        Message 3 of 22 , Nov 30, 2012
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          Hello Tyson, Russ, and All,
          I believe that religious myth
          was created to explain away
          the phenomenal, and that
          religion was created in order
          to control the masses and,
          thus, use this undertaking
          for money, power, greed,
          status and other self-benefits
          for the hierarchies.

          The Blue Light/Blue Star?
          The human mind/brain
          functions similarly and
          when attention is placed
          upon subjects this produces
          chemical and electrical
          reactions. There are even
          mixed but similar responses
          to unconscious stimuli.
          But many people realize
          all of this but tend to
          forget it when seeking
          "spiritual" answers.

          People should not have
          faith in the words of
          others. People should
          No Longer give others
          'the benefit of the doubt.'

          Yes, we can look at what
          principles they are sharing
          in order to help us to
          achieve a greater realization
          but we should not limit
          ourselves from going
          beyond the realizations
          and achievements in
          higher consciousness
          of those we view as
          ideals/icons.

          Thus, the concept of
          "Master" needs to be
          revised and eliminated.

          When the lessons have
          been taught, via real
          world examples of
          living, it then becomes
          our responsibility
          to demonstrate what
          we have learned as
          it pertains to our
          own unique individual
          personality and
          circumstances. We
          move-on and into
          our own unrestricted
          conscious awareness.

          IMHO- Jesus, and not
          always his apostles,
          taught some really
          advanced concepts.
          Too advanced for
          most of us today!

          I'll never forget this
          one Fung Fu episode
          where Cain ran into
          some religious fanatics
          who would not defend
          themselves and would
          turn the other cheek.
          Cain showed them that
          there was a third response.
          Instead of becoming
          a victim of violence,
          or responding with
          violence Cain stopped/
          blocked the violence
          i.e. punch or object
          and redirected its
          intended path.

          Anyway, I've heard
          sounds when first
          starting to mediate
          via TM. Everyone
          heard these tones.
          Generally the mind
          blocks out these
          background noises
          until it quiets down
          and empties itself.
          Actually, one can
          follow these sounds
          without placing
          too much attention
          on them. That's the
          trick. One doesn't
          place attention or
          attachment on any
          thought, imaginary
          vision or sound no
          matter how pleasant.

          Eventually, this will
          produce other by-
          products of awareness
          such as contentment.

          I have to say that one
          must discover their
          own reality. Don't take
          my word for anything.
          Divine Awareness is
          an individual experience
          and not a group path.
          I called it "Divine Awareness"
          in oder to give this
          private and personal
          Discovery by Soul a
          special designation.
          By referring to the
          uniqueness of the
          individual experience
          as 'Soul' does likewise.

          I will have to say that
          I've had help in validating
          that there is a Reality
          beyond the scientific
          explanations and that
          of religious dogma.

          I can only say that
          the Soulmate concept
          (IMO) is real in that
          it helps these Souls
          to form a special
          bond in order to merge
          and harmonize their
          vibrations and to better
          'tune-in' to glimpses
          of, perhaps, our true
          origins and potential
          but also of this Here
          and Now.

          Prometheus


          "Tyson" wrote:
          The sound current, bani,
          shabd or nam is real.

          There is no religion that
          can claim it as there own.

          What is fiction is the
          dependance on a master
          that is created by religions
          of the light and sound.

          Only one initiation is
          important.

          Yet faith in a past master
          such as Christ, Krishna
          or Guru Nanak is just as
          valid.

          There is no mahanta.

          The blue star is no
          other than a manifestation
          created by a meeting
          between the holy spirit
          and ones higher self
          (soul).

          For Harold to claim to
          be the blue star is a
          way to snare the gullible.
          He is no more the blue
          star than the second
          coming of christ.

          I had heard the rushing
          wind as a member of
          eckankar so I wrongly
          believed that this path
          must be true.

          It was meditation on
          the third eye that brought
          the rushing wind, not
          Klemp.

          Eckankar was taken from
          the Sihk word Ek Ong Kar.
          Ek Ong Kar means one
          divine energy permeates
          all things.


          Russ wrote:
          > I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is ex eckist, interviewing
          David Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.

          > One of the interviewees, a man made a statement, paraphrasing here, that in
          his mind it doesn't matter where the writings of eckankar come from because he
          is finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it's more important to have a
          connection with the sound current.
          >
          > I used to have that exact point of view. What changed for me?
          >
          > One thing I used to feel good about when talking about eck was this idea that
          it has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was synonymous with the sound
          current.
          >
          > It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored for a decade, after
          becoming a 5th. I could no longer ignore this dissonance, caused by the
          plaigarism and ultimately this had led to me dropping out of eckankar.
          >
          > I have a question concerning the sound current. I experience this sound,
          sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous to my study of eck. Maybe
          it isn't important, where you read about it, if you take it as a principle and
          work with it.
          >
          > Do you folks think the sound current is bogus? Delusions?
          >
          > This is an interesting point because I am interested in truth...
          >
          > BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion, good work. But this by
          itself doesn't go to the underlying issues concerning the question, "What is the
          Truth regarding the idea of the sound current as a way of connection with the
          Divine??"
          >
          > Thanks,
          >
          > Russ
          >
        • Non
          I agree with a lot of what you have said here. I don t quite get the Soulmate though. I have been met with mostly great difficulty in actualizing this, even
          Message 4 of 22 , Dec 4, 2012
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            I agree with a lot of what you have said here. I don't quite get the Soulmate though. I have been met with mostly great difficulty in actualizing this, even though it sounds quite nice. I am open to experiencing this, yet I am also naturally intuitive and also he who questions a lot and enjoys experimenting and investigating. Most people I meet are into holding tight to their beliefs and don't like being around someone like me, if I am just being myself. For some reason I ruffle feathers so maybe that means I need to stay away from certain Birds. :) I don't know the answer.

            As far as the sound current. My experience has been dreams of beautiful music sometimes, but also just feeling. Not everyone is musical. The sound current and light may actually be too limiting. It is based on our two most used human senses, seeing and hearing. There is so much more richness involved. We are lacking in our sense of smell and there are other senses that other animals know and experience that make us look like idiots sometimes. Humans are very arrogant because of our superior ability to manipulate our environment, something that if unchecked can and does cause great havoc, destruction and killing just to kill.

            Feeling and intuition is very under rated. Feelings allow us to have compassion and empathy. That is a vibration I wish there was more of. People don't like it, because it also means that we may have to relate to the pain of another, or to our own pain. People are too hardened IMHO. At the same time, bless the ones who act out of compassion to advocate and fight those who are indifferent to at least living with some level of a little empathy. I think they have compassion in them, it is just repressed, and imo is always pushing to express. I dare say, that even klemp and his HI's are so frownish and fakish, because that is how you repress feelings and natural compassion. It is harder for humans, because we are more self-aware. Native American life often at least had sacred rituals for killing to eat. We are lost..... Light and sound meditations may just be a distraction and limiting us from our Whole Being. We cannot cut off a part of ourselves and Be our Whole Being, imo.

            Non ; )

            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hello Tyson, Russ, and All,
            > I believe that religious myth
            > was created to explain away
            > the phenomenal, and that
            > religion was created in order
            > to control the masses and,
            > thus, use this undertaking
            > for money, power, greed,
            > status and other self-benefits
            > for the hierarchies.
            >
            > The Blue Light/Blue Star?
            > The human mind/brain
            > functions similarly and
            > when attention is placed
            > upon subjects this produces
            > chemical and electrical
            > reactions. There are even
            > mixed but similar responses
            > to unconscious stimuli.
            > But many people realize
            > all of this but tend to
            > forget it when seeking
            > "spiritual" answers.
            >
            > People should not have
            > faith in the words of
            > others. People should
            > No Longer give others
            > 'the benefit of the doubt.'
            >
            > Yes, we can look at what
            > principles they are sharing
            > in order to help us to
            > achieve a greater realization
            > but we should not limit
            > ourselves from going
            > beyond the realizations
            > and achievements in
            > higher consciousness
            > of those we view as
            > ideals/icons.
            >
            > Thus, the concept of
            > "Master" needs to be
            > revised and eliminated.
            >
            > When the lessons have
            > been taught, via real
            > world examples of
            > living, it then becomes
            > our responsibility
            > to demonstrate what
            > we have learned as
            > it pertains to our
            > own unique individual
            > personality and
            > circumstances. We
            > move-on and into
            > our own unrestricted
            > conscious awareness.
            >
            > IMHO- Jesus, and not
            > always his apostles,
            > taught some really
            > advanced concepts.
            > Too advanced for
            > most of us today!
            >
            > I'll never forget this
            > one Fung Fu episode
            > where Cain ran into
            > some religious fanatics
            > who would not defend
            > themselves and would
            > turn the other cheek.
            > Cain showed them that
            > there was a third response.
            > Instead of becoming
            > a victim of violence,
            > or responding with
            > violence Cain stopped/
            > blocked the violence
            > i.e. punch or object
            > and redirected its
            > intended path.
            >
            > Anyway, I've heard
            > sounds when first
            > starting to mediate
            > via TM. Everyone
            > heard these tones.
            > Generally the mind
            > blocks out these
            > background noises
            > until it quiets down
            > and empties itself.
            > Actually, one can
            > follow these sounds
            > without placing
            > too much attention
            > on them. That's the
            > trick. One doesn't
            > place attention or
            > attachment on any
            > thought, imaginary
            > vision or sound no
            > matter how pleasant.
            >
            > Eventually, this will
            > produce other by-
            > products of awareness
            > such as contentment.
            >
            > I have to say that one
            > must discover their
            > own reality. Don't take
            > my word for anything.
            > Divine Awareness is
            > an individual experience
            > and not a group path.
            > I called it "Divine Awareness"
            > in oder to give this
            > private and personal
            > Discovery by Soul a
            > special designation.
            > By referring to the
            > uniqueness of the
            > individual experience
            > as 'Soul' does likewise.
            >
            > I will have to say that
            > I've had help in validating
            > that there is a Reality
            > beyond the scientific
            > explanations and that
            > of religious dogma.
            >
            > I can only say that
            > the Soulmate concept
            > (IMO) is real in that
            > it helps these Souls
            > to form a special
            > bond in order to merge
            > and harmonize their
            > vibrations and to better
            > 'tune-in' to glimpses
            > of, perhaps, our true
            > origins and potential
            > but also of this Here
            > and Now.
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            >
            > "Tyson" wrote:
            > The sound current, bani,
            > shabd or nam is real.
            >
            > There is no religion that
            > can claim it as there own.
            >
            > What is fiction is the
            > dependance on a master
            > that is created by religions
            > of the light and sound.
            >
            > Only one initiation is
            > important.
            >
            > Yet faith in a past master
            > such as Christ, Krishna
            > or Guru Nanak is just as
            > valid.
            >
            > There is no mahanta.
            >
            > The blue star is no
            > other than a manifestation
            > created by a meeting
            > between the holy spirit
            > and ones higher self
            > (soul).
            >
            > For Harold to claim to
            > be the blue star is a
            > way to snare the gullible.
            > He is no more the blue
            > star than the second
            > coming of christ.
            >
            > I had heard the rushing
            > wind as a member of
            > eckankar so I wrongly
            > believed that this path
            > must be true.
            >
            > It was meditation on
            > the third eye that brought
            > the rushing wind, not
            > Klemp.
            >
            > Eckankar was taken from
            > the Sihk word Ek Ong Kar.
            > Ek Ong Kar means one
            > divine energy permeates
            > all things.
            >
            >
            > Russ wrote:
            > > I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is ex eckist, interviewing
            > David Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.
            >
            > > One of the interviewees, a man made a statement, paraphrasing here, that in
            > his mind it doesn't matter where the writings of eckankar come from because he
            > is finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it's more important to have a
            > connection with the sound current.
            > >
            > > I used to have that exact point of view. What changed for me?
            > >
            > > One thing I used to feel good about when talking about eck was this idea that
            > it has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was synonymous with the sound
            > current.
            > >
            > > It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored for a decade, after
            > becoming a 5th. I could no longer ignore this dissonance, caused by the
            > plaigarism and ultimately this had led to me dropping out of eckankar.
            > >
            > > I have a question concerning the sound current. I experience this sound,
            > sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous to my study of eck. Maybe
            > it isn't important, where you read about it, if you take it as a principle and
            > work with it.
            > >
            > > Do you folks think the sound current is bogus? Delusions?
            > >
            > > This is an interesting point because I am interested in truth...
            > >
            > > BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion, good work. But this by
            > itself doesn't go to the underlying issues concerning the question, "What is the
            > Truth regarding the idea of the sound current as a way of connection with the
            > Divine??"
            > >
            > > Thanks,
            > >
            > > Russ
            > >
            >
          • prometheus_973
            Hello Non eckchains and All, The Soulmate theory phenomena is an interesting spiritual perspective and is, actually, unlimited by conventional New Age thought.
            Message 5 of 22 , Dec 4, 2012
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              Hello Non eckchains and All,
              The Soulmate theory
              phenomena is an interesting
              spiritual perspective
              and is, actually, unlimited
              by conventional New Age
              thought. Eckankar (PT)
              reinvented it with a
              Twin-Soul perspective.
              This is interesting, but
              IMO it shouldn't be limited
              to or by PT's "Twin" Soul
              view and a single pairing
              only.

              Thus, the connection that
              some/many Souls have with
              one another (IMO) s/b referred
              to in the plural. Thus, Soulmates
              is more than one pairing.
              Unfortunately, for Eckists,
              Klemp has them locked into
              a "Twin" concept when there
              are Triplets and many more!
              This phenomena can be
              a special connection/attraction
              with lifelong friends, as well,
              and not always be with sexual
              partners.

              As far as Klemp's fraud
              and his "frownish and fakish"
              H.I.'s, well, that's to be
              expected when they emulate
              HK's own behaviour via clues
              with the way the EK hierarchy
              is run or the way in which
              he speaks/refers to Joan and/
              or tells his stories.

              With Klemp there's a lack
              of forgiveness, compassion,
              and empathy. These are
              missing from Klemp's own
              perspectives in his own life
              stories.

              It's easy for him to judge
              others and point out flaws
              or to add "insight" and to
              do EK tweaks on the letters
              sent to him. And, that's
              what Klemp does when
              he "writes" in his hermit
              batty cave.

              Thus, many of HK's RESAs
              emulate his lack of empathy,
              compassion, and forgiveness.
              They talk a lot about "love"
              but when it comes to the
              business/spiritual side of
              Eckankar and the "Guidelines,"
              as set forth by HK via the
              ESC, there is not much room
              leftover for the byproducts
              of love.

              Look at the way the Higher
              initiations are handed out.
              There are always strings
              attached and it has more
              to do with "Outer" posturing
              and faking it with physical
              requirements. What is said
              or isn't said to the RESA
              or done as a volunteer,
              than with anything else
              or with one's visible goodness,
              has more importance in
              deciding who gets a pink
              slip. It's not love for God.
              Long-time Eckists who
              are loyal and loving and
              are very nice people are
              excluded from becoming
              H.I.s because they haven't
              jumped through enough
              physical hoops of training,
              retraining, volunteering, etc.

              Or, maybe they didn't seem
              like a 'take charge" leader
              or have a college education
              and/or were high profile
              professionals. It's amazing
              how petty RESAs can be,
              and these people are the
              "righthand" of Klemp.

              In truth, many people who
              left Eckankar did so out of
              frustration caused via neglect
              and unloving behavior towards
              them. Once you've become
              a member their main goal
              has been achieved. From
              there they dangle the carrot
              for the higher initiations
              and, now, make it very
              difficult to achieve the 7th.
              Eckists need to become
              ESAs to become RESAs
              and unless you're already
              an ESA it's, now, much
              more difficult to achieve.
              And, for a 6th ESA to get
              the 7th they, usually, need
              to become a RESA.

              Thus, Klemp slowed-down
              Initiations in 1985 due to
              Darwin making 500 new
              5ths before leaving office.
              So, more that 25 years later
              what is Klemp's excuse for
              not making more H.I.s and
              for not expanding the "outer"
              initiations and their numbers?

              It's actually a simple/obvious
              explanation. Klemp is selfish.

              Klemp's lack of empathy,
              compassion, forgiveness and
              real, true love for his fellow
              eckists, and the trickle-down
              effect within the EK Hierarchy,
              is why Eckankar and ECKists
              are broken and lost. Their
              delusional faith and fellowship
              (it's a numbers game) is
              what they cling to as do
              all religionists. Yet, as with
              all religionists, their faith
              has the only chosen ones
              who have been gifted with
              special insight into God
              (or whatever name they use).
              EK is simply more of the same
              but tweaked to fit a special
              New Age/Metaphysical mindset.
              It's the Easy Way until those,
              now, with less than 30 plus
              years want a 6th or 7th
              initiation.

              Prometheus


              "Non" eckchains wrote:
              I agree with a lot of what you have said here. I don't quite get the Soulmate
              though. I have been met with mostly great difficulty in actualizing this, even
              though it sounds quite nice. I am open to experiencing this, yet I am also
              naturally intuitive and also he who questions a lot and enjoys experimenting and
              investigating. Most people I meet are into holding tight to their beliefs and
              don't like being around someone like me, if I am just being myself. For some
              reason I ruffle feathers so maybe that means I need to stay away from certain
              Birds. :) I don't know the answer.

              As far as the sound current. My experience has been dreams of beautiful music
              sometimes, but also just feeling. Not everyone is musical. The sound current and
              light may actually be too limiting. It is based on our two most used human
              senses, seeing and hearing. There is so much more richness involved. We are
              lacking in our sense of smell and there are other senses that other animals know
              and experience that make us look like idiots sometimes. Humans are very arrogant
              because of our superior ability to manipulate our environment, something that if
              unchecked can and does cause great havoc, destruction and killing just to kill.

              Feeling and intuition is very under rated. Feelings allow us to have compassion
              and empathy. That is a vibration I wish there was more of. People don't like it,
              because it also means that we may have to relate to the pain of another, or to
              our own pain. People are too hardened IMHO. At the same time, bless the ones who
              act out of compassion to advocate and fight those who are indifferent to at
              least living with some level of a little empathy. I think they have compassion
              in them, it is just repressed, and imo is always pushing to express. I dare say,
              that even klemp and his HI's are so frownish and fakish, because that is how you
              repress feelings and natural compassion. It is harder for humans, because we are
              more self-aware. Native American life often at least had sacred rituals for
              killing to eat. We are lost..... Light and sound meditations may just be a
              distraction and limiting us from our Whole Being. We cannot cut off a part of
              ourselves and Be our Whole Being, imo.

              Non ; )


              <prometheus wrote:
              >
              > Hello Tyson, Russ, and All,
              > I believe that religious myth
              > was created to explain away
              > the phenomenal, and that
              > religion was created in order
              > to control the masses and,
              > thus, use this undertaking
              > for money, power, greed,
              > status and other self-benefits
              > for the hierarchies.
              >
              > The Blue Light/Blue Star?
              > The human mind/brain
              > functions similarly and
              > when attention is placed
              > upon subjects this produces
              > chemical and electrical
              > reactions. There are even
              > mixed but similar responses
              > to unconscious stimuli.
              > But many people realize
              > all of this but tend to
              > forget it when seeking
              > "spiritual" answers.
              >
              > People should not have
              > faith in the words of
              > others. People should
              > No Longer give others
              > 'the benefit of the doubt.'
              >
              > Yes, we can look at what
              > principles they are sharing
              > in order to help us to
              > achieve a greater realization
              > but we should not limit
              > ourselves from going
              > beyond the realizations
              > and achievements in
              > higher consciousness
              > of those we view as
              > ideals/icons.
              >
              > Thus, the concept of
              > "Master" needs to be
              > revised and eliminated.
              >
              > When the lessons have
              > been taught, via real
              > world examples of
              > living, it then becomes
              > our responsibility
              > to demonstrate what
              > we have learned as
              > it pertains to our
              > own unique individual
              > personality and
              > circumstances. We
              > move-on and into
              > our own unrestricted
              > conscious awareness.
              >
              > IMHO- Jesus, and not
              > always his apostles,
              > taught some really
              > advanced concepts.
              > Too advanced for
              > most of us today!
              >
              > I'll never forget this
              > one Fung Fu episode
              > where Cain ran into
              > some religious fanatics
              > who would not defend
              > themselves and would
              > turn the other cheek.
              > Cain showed them that
              > there was a third response.
              > Instead of becoming
              > a victim of violence,
              > or responding with
              > violence Cain stopped/
              > blocked the violence
              > i.e. punch or object
              > and redirected its
              > intended path.
              >
              > Anyway, I've heard
              > sounds when first
              > starting to mediate
              > via TM. Everyone
              > heard these tones.
              > Generally the mind
              > blocks out these
              > background noises
              > until it quiets down
              > and empties itself.
              > Actually, one can
              > follow these sounds
              > without placing
              > too much attention
              > on them. That's the
              > trick. One doesn't
              > place attention or
              > attachment on any
              > thought, imaginary
              > vision or sound no
              > matter how pleasant.
              >
              > Eventually, this will
              > produce other by-
              > products of awareness
              > such as contentment.
              >
              > I have to say that one
              > must discover their
              > own reality. Don't take
              > my word for anything.
              > Divine Awareness is
              > an individual experience
              > and not a group path.
              > I called it "Divine Awareness"
              > in oder to give this
              > private and personal
              > Discovery by Soul a
              > special designation.
              > By referring to the
              > uniqueness of the
              > individual experience
              > as 'Soul' does likewise.
              >
              > I will have to say that
              > I've had help in validating
              > that there is a Reality
              > beyond the scientific
              > explanations and that
              > of religious dogma.
              >
              > I can only say that
              > the Soulmate concept
              > (IMO) is real in that
              > it helps these Souls
              > to form a special
              > bond in order to merge
              > and harmonize their
              > vibrations and to better
              > 'tune-in' to glimpses
              > of, perhaps, our true
              > origins and potential
              > but also of this Here
              > and Now.
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              >
              > "Tyson" wrote:
              > The sound current, bani,
              > shabd or nam is real.
              >
              > There is no religion that
              > can claim it as there own.
              >
              > What is fiction is the
              > dependance on a master
              > that is created by religions
              > of the light and sound.
              >
              > Only one initiation is
              > important.
              >
              > Yet faith in a past master
              > such as Christ, Krishna
              > or Guru Nanak is just as
              > valid.
              >
              > There is no mahanta.
              >
              > The blue star is no
              > other than a manifestation
              > created by a meeting
              > between the holy spirit
              > and ones higher self
              > (soul).
              >
              > For Harold to claim to
              > be the blue star is a
              > way to snare the gullible.
              > He is no more the blue
              > star than the second
              > coming of christ.
              >
              > I had heard the rushing
              > wind as a member of
              > eckankar so I wrongly
              > believed that this path
              > must be true.
              >
              > It was meditation on
              > the third eye that brought
              > the rushing wind, not
              > Klemp.
              >
              > Eckankar was taken from
              > the Sihk word Ek Ong Kar.
              > Ek Ong Kar means one
              > divine energy permeates
              > all things.
              >
              >
              > Russ wrote:
              > > I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is ex eckist, interviewing
              > David Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.
              >
              > > One of the interviewees, a man made a statement, paraphrasing here, that in
              > his mind it doesn't matter where the writings of eckankar come from because he
              > is finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it's more important to have
              a
              > connection with the sound current.
              > >
              > > I used to have that exact point of view. What changed for me?
              > >
              > > One thing I used to feel good about when talking about eck was this idea
              that
              > it has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was synonymous with the
              sound
              > current.
              > >
              > > It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored for a decade, after
              > becoming a 5th. I could no longer ignore this dissonance, caused by the
              > plaigarism and ultimately this had led to me dropping out of eckankar.
              > >
              > > I have a question concerning the sound current. I experience this sound,
              > sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous to my study of eck.
              Maybe
              > it isn't important, where you read about it, if you take it as a principle and
              > work with it.
              > >
              > > Do you folks think the sound current is bogus? Delusions?
              > >
              > > This is an interesting point because I am interested in truth...
              > >
              > > BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion, good work. But this by
              > itself doesn't go to the underlying issues concerning the question, "What is
              the
              > Truth regarding the idea of the sound current as a way of connection with the
              > Divine??"
              > >
              > > Thanks,
              > >
              > > Russ
            • Janice Pfeiffer
              I too agree with Prometheus.  He and I have formed a lot of the same concepts it seems.  As far as the soul mate thing, Non, I don t think it is something
              Message 6 of 22 , Dec 4, 2012
              • 0 Attachment
                I too agree with Prometheus.  He and I have formed a lot of the same concepts it seems.  As far as the soul mate thing, Non, I don't think it is something you can make.  You are just fortunate when you meet some one that feels like an echo from the past.  You just know that you know them and you know so much about each other with out knowing how you know when you first meet.  My soul mate is gone now but we had something right from the start that couldn't be explained in words.  We could speak in half sentences and have perfect understanding.  He knew my thoughts and could feel my feelings.  He knew what I liked with out being told.  We could enjoy silence and not need to talk.  There was just something very real between us that didn't come from the present and didn't make logical sense in the physical world.  I do hope that at some point, you know what I am saying.  It is a very precious thing to have.  Maybe everyone doesn't have it in every life time.  It is true that you do express yourself sometimes in a some what abrasive manner but you also show a lot of insight at times and I have seen a lot of compassion in what you say also at times.  In your search, it would help if maybe you weren't quite so blunt with those you don't know well.  Wouldn't it be terrible if you chased a way the very one who does know you but because of a sharp initial few words, doesn't have a chance to take a good look and see that?  My experience when meeting people face to face is if there is a strong pull or a strong repulsion, it most likely does mean, you've known them before.  Sometimes it helps to just stand still and let the other person show you who they are.  About holding on to beliefs; I find religious people need to do that whereas spiritual people tend to change theirs as they evolve with more understanding.  That's what caused most of us to get into eckankar and what caused most of us to get out.  I use to feel angry about the lies but now I even feel a little gratitude for eckanar.  I never was one to accept things at face value and I usually wasn't fooled easily but I certainly was by eckankar.  It was a real experience.  It changed my life.  Not in the way, they intended maybe but I am now stronger, even more independent and I now know for the rest of my life, I can never be a part of any organized religious group again.  I think part of the reason I got into eckankar is I thought I needed to find those who were like me and I hoped that was it.  It wasn't but I thought I needed it to be.  Now I know I don't need that.  That's what it taught me.  Through it, I learned something of value about myself so it was a worthwhile experience.  Good luck with your search.  I hope you find just what you want.  Oh, don't forget to stand still; don't rush it and don't push it away.  Sound current and senses is another story for me so I won't comment now.  Again, all the best to you now and always. 
                --- On Tue, 12/4/12, Non <eckchains@...> wrote:

                From: Non <eckchains@...>
                Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the Sound Current?
                To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Tuesday, December 4, 2012, 9:28 AM

                 
                I agree with a lot of what you have said here. I don't quite get the Soulmate though. I have been met with mostly great difficulty in actualizing this, even though it sounds quite nice. I am open to experiencing this, yet I am also naturally intuitive and also he who questions a lot and enjoys experimenting and investigating. Most people I meet are into holding tight to their beliefs and don't like being around someone like me, if I am just being myself. For some reason I ruffle feathers so maybe that means I need to stay away from certain Birds. :) I don't know the answer.

                As far as the sound current. My experience has been dreams of beautiful music sometimes, but also just feeling. Not everyone is musical. The sound current and light may actually be too limiting. It is based on our two most used human senses, seeing and hearing. There is so much more richness involved. We are lacking in our sense of smell and there are other senses that other animals know and experience that make us look like idiots sometimes. Humans are very arrogant because of our superior ability to manipulate our environment, something that if unchecked can and does cause great havoc, destruction and killing just to kill.

                Feeling and intuition is very under rated. Feelings allow us to have compassion and empathy. That is a vibration I wish there was more of. People don't like it, because it also means that we may have to relate to the pain of another, or to our own pain. People are too hardened IMHO. At the same time, bless the ones who act out of compassion to advocate and fight those who are indifferent to at least living with some level of a little empathy. I think they have compassion in them, it is just repressed, and imo is always pushing to express. I dare say, that even klemp and his HI's are so frownish and fakish, because that is how you repress feelings and natural compassion. It is harder for humans, because we are more self-aware. Native American life often at least had sacred rituals for killing to eat. We are lost..... Light and sound meditations may just be a distraction and limiting us from our Whole Being. We cannot cut off a part of ourselves and Be our Whole Being, imo.

                Non ; )

                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hello Tyson, Russ, and All,
                > I believe that religious myth
                > was created to explain away
                > the phenomenal, and that
                > religion was created in order
                > to control the masses and,
                > thus, use this undertaking
                > for money, power, greed,
                > status and other self-benefits
                > for the hierarchies.
                >
                > The Blue Light/Blue Star?
                > The human mind/brain
                > functions similarly and
                > when attention is placed
                > upon subjects this produces
                > chemical and electrical
                > reactions. There are even
                > mixed but similar responses
                > to unconscious stimuli.
                > But many people realize
                > all of this but tend to
                > forget it when seeking
                > "spiritual" answers.
                >
                > People should not have
                > faith in the words of
                > others. People should
                > No Longer give others
                > 'the benefit of the doubt.'
                >
                > Yes, we can look at what
                > principles they are sharing
                > in order to help us to
                > achieve a greater realization
                > but we should not limit
                > ourselves from going
                > beyond the realizations
                > and achievements in
                > higher consciousness
                > of those we view as
                > ideals/icons.
                >
                > Thus, the concept of
                > "Master" needs to be
                > revised and eliminated.
                >
                > When the lessons have
                > been taught, via real
                > world examples of
                > living, it then becomes
                > our responsibility
                > to demonstrate what
                > we have learned as
                > it pertains to our
                > own unique individual
                > personality and
                > circumstances. We
                > move-on and into
                > our own unrestricted
                > conscious awareness.
                >
                > IMHO- Jesus, and not
                > always his apostles,
                > taught some really
                > advanced concepts.
                > Too advanced for
                > most of us today!
                >
                > I'll never forget this
                > one Fung Fu episode
                > where Cain ran into
                > some religious fanatics
                > who would not defend
                > themselves and would
                > turn the other cheek.
                > Cain showed them that
                > there was a third response.
                > Instead of becoming
                > a victim of violence,
                > or responding with
                > violence Cain stopped/
                > blocked the violence
                > i.e. punch or object
                > and redirected its
                > intended path.
                >
                > Anyway, I've heard
                > sounds when first
                > starting to mediate
                > via TM. Everyone
                > heard these tones.
                > Generally the mind
                > blocks out these
                > background noises
                > until it quiets down
                > and empties itself.
                > Actually, one can
                > follow these sounds
                > without placing
                > too much attention
                > on them. That's the
                > trick. One doesn't
                > place attention or
                > attachment on any
                > thought, imaginary
                > vision or sound no
                > matter how pleasant.
                >
                > Eventually, this will
                > produce other by-
                > products of awareness
                > such as contentment.
                >
                > I have to say that one
                > must discover their
                > own reality. Don't take
                > my word for anything.
                > Divine Awareness is
                > an individual experience
                > and not a group path.
                > I called it "Divine Awareness"
                > in oder to give this
                > private and personal
                > Discovery by Soul a
                > special designation.
                > By referring to the
                > uniqueness of the
                > individual experience
                > as 'Soul' does likewise.
                >
                > I will have to say that
                > I've had help in validating
                > that there is a Reality
                > beyond the scientific
                > explanations and that
                > of religious dogma.
                >
                > I can only say that
                > the Soulmate concept
                > (IMO) is real in that
                > it helps these Souls
                > to form a special
                > bond in order to merge
                > and harmonize their
                > vibrations and to better
                > 'tune-in' to glimpses
                > of, perhaps, our true
                > origins and potential
                > but also of this Here
                > and Now.
                >
                > Prometheus
                >
                >
                > "Tyson" wrote:
                > The sound current, bani,
                > shabd or nam is real.
                >
                > There is no religion that
                > can claim it as there own.
                >
                > What is fiction is the
                > dependance on a master
                > that is created by religions
                > of the light and sound.
                >
                > Only one initiation is
                > important.
                >
                > Yet faith in a past master
                > such as Christ, Krishna
                > or Guru Nanak is just as
                > valid.
                >
                > There is no mahanta.
                >
                > The blue star is no
                > other than a manifestation
                > created by a meeting
                > between the holy spirit
                > and ones higher self
                > (soul).
                >
                > For Harold to claim to
                > be the blue star is a
                > way to snare the gullible.
                > He is no more the blue
                > star than the second
                > coming of christ.
                >
                > I had heard the rushing
                > wind as a member of
                > eckankar so I wrongly
                > believed that this path
                > must be true.
                >
                > It was meditation on
                > the third eye that brought
                > the rushing wind, not
                > Klemp.
                >
                > Eckankar was taken from
                > the Sihk word Ek Ong Kar.
                > Ek Ong Kar means one
                > divine energy permeates
                > all things.
                >
                >
                > Russ wrote:
                > > I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is ex eckist, interviewing
                > David Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.
                >
                > > One of the interviewees, a man made a statement, paraphrasing here, that in
                > his mind it doesn't matter where the writings of eckankar come from because he
                > is finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it's more important to have a
                > connection with the sound current.
                > >
                > > I used to have that exact point of view. What changed for me?
                > >
                > > One thing I used to feel good about when talking about eck was this idea that
                > it has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was synonymous with the sound
                > current.
                > >
                > > It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored for a decade, after
                > becoming a 5th. I could no longer ignore this dissonance, caused by the
                > plaigarism and ultimately this had led to me dropping out of eckankar.
                > >
                > > I have a question concerning the sound current. I experience this sound,
                > sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous to my study of eck. Maybe
                > it isn't important, where you read about it, if you take it as a principle and
                > work with it.
                > >
                > > Do you folks think the sound current is bogus? Delusions?
                > >
                > > This is an interesting point because I am interested in truth...
                > >
                > > BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion, good work. But this by
                > itself doesn't go to the underlying issues concerning the question, "What is the
                > Truth regarding the idea of the sound current as a way of connection with the
                > Divine??"
                > >
                > > Thanks,
                > >
                > > Russ
                > >
                >

              • Non
                Janice, I just have to say, that in person I am very shy and soft spoken, it s just that what I say may be disagreeable as it is often to the point, even if I
                Message 7 of 22 , Dec 5, 2012
                • 0 Attachment
                  Janice, I just have to say, that in person I am very shy and soft spoken, it's just that what I say may be disagreeable as it is often to the point, even if I try to express it gently. A friend of mine once sent me a card that said "It is better to be hated for who you are than loved for who you are not." My writing style is different than how I speak. I actually speak slowly and often have problems with people who talk fast. Actually, my main problem might be that in person I am afraid to simply be who I am. I am very sensitive to most people I meet, to a fault and spend more time listening, when I should probably be more spontaneous and even abrasive.

                  I think you are only seeing one side of me, as I express myself more directly in some of these blogs, and yes I hold in some anger that is more easily expressed in writing. I still have a problem with wanting to trust the cons too much, and yes getting taken. There seems to be more people than I remember who are callous and mean these days. Maybe hard times do that to people. I'm actually too nice in person, but it is based on both a sense of compassion as well as some guilt about my right to just be who I am. Sometimes it is OK to be just plain rude imo and not nice all the time, especially if someone is trying to push their arrogant, dogmatic spirituality/religion onto you.

                  Non ;)

                  --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer <jepfeiffer@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I too agree with Prometheus.  He and I have formed a lot of the same concepts it seems.  As far as the soul mate thing, Non, I don't think it is something you can make.  You are just fortunate when you meet some one that feels like an echo from the past.  You just know that you know them and you know so much about each other with out knowing how you know when you first meet.  My soul mate is gone now but we had something right from the start that couldn't be explained in words.  We could speak in half sentences and have perfect understanding.  He knew my thoughts and could feel my feelings.  He knew what I liked with out being told.  We could enjoy silence and not need to talk.  There was just something very real between us that didn't come from the present and didn't make logical sense in the physical world.  I do hope that at some point, you know what I am saying.  It is a very precious thing to have.  Maybe everyone doesn't have it in
                  > every life time.  It is true that you do express yourself sometimes in a some what abrasive manner but you also show a lot of insight at times and I have seen a lot of compassion in what you say also at times.  In your search, it would help if maybe you weren't quite so blunt with those you don't know well.  Wouldn't it be terrible if you chased a way the very one who does know you but because of a sharp initial few words, doesn't have a chance to take a good look and see that?  My experience when meeting people face to face is if there is a strong pull or a strong repulsion, it most likely does mean, you've known them before.  Sometimes it helps to just stand still and let the other person show you who they are.  About holding on to beliefs; I find religious people need to do that whereas spiritual people tend to change theirs as they evolve with more understanding.  That's what caused most of us to get into eckankar and what caused most of us
                  > to get out.  I use to feel angry about the lies but now I even feel a little gratitude for eckanar.  I never was one to accept things at face value and I usually wasn't fooled easily but I certainly was by eckankar.  It was a real experience.  It changed my life.  Not in the way, they intended maybe but I am now stronger, even more independent and I now know for the rest of my life, I can never be a part of any organized religious group again.  I think part of the reason I got into eckankar is I thought I needed to find those who were like me and I hoped that was it.  It wasn't but I thought I needed it to be.  Now I know I don't need that.  That's what it taught me.  Through it, I learned something of value about myself so it was a worthwhile experience.  Good luck with your search.  I hope you find just what you want.  Oh, don't forget to stand still; don't rush it and don't push it away.  Sound current and senses is another story for me
                  > so I won't comment now.  Again, all the best to you now and always. 
                  > --- On Tue, 12/4/12, Non <eckchains@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > From: Non <eckchains@...>
                  > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the Sound Current?
                  > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                  > Date: Tuesday, December 4, 2012, 9:28 AM
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >  
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > I agree with a lot of what you have said here. I don't quite get the Soulmate though. I have been met with mostly great difficulty in actualizing this, even though it sounds quite nice. I am open to experiencing this, yet I am also naturally intuitive and also he who questions a lot and enjoys experimenting and investigating. Most people I meet are into holding tight to their beliefs and don't like being around someone like me, if I am just being myself. For some reason I ruffle feathers so maybe that means I need to stay away from certain Birds. :) I don't know the answer.
                  >
                  > As far as the sound current. My experience has been dreams of beautiful music sometimes, but also just feeling. Not everyone is musical. The sound current and light may actually be too limiting. It is based on our two most used human senses, seeing and hearing. There is so much more richness involved. We are lacking in our sense of smell and there are other senses that other animals know and experience that make us look like idiots sometimes. Humans are very arrogant because of our superior ability to manipulate our environment, something that if unchecked can and does cause great havoc, destruction and killing just to kill.
                  >
                  > Feeling and intuition is very under rated. Feelings allow us to have compassion and empathy. That is a vibration I wish there was more of. People don't like it, because it also means that we may have to relate to the pain of another, or to our own pain. People are too hardened IMHO. At the same time, bless the ones who act out of compassion to advocate and fight those who are indifferent to at least living with some level of a little empathy. I think they have compassion in them, it is just repressed, and imo is always pushing to express. I dare say, that even klemp and his HI's are so frownish and fakish, because that is how you repress feelings and natural compassion. It is harder for humans, because we are more self-aware. Native American life often at least had sacred rituals for killing to eat. We are lost..... Light and sound meditations may just be a distraction and limiting us from our Whole Being. We cannot cut off a part of ourselves and Be our
                  > Whole Being, imo.
                  >
                  > Non ; )
                  >
                  > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hello Tyson, Russ, and All,
                  > > I believe that religious myth
                  > > was created to explain away
                  > > the phenomenal, and that
                  > > religion was created in order
                  > > to control the masses and,
                  > > thus, use this undertaking
                  > > for money, power, greed,
                  > > status and other self-benefits
                  > > for the hierarchies.
                  > >
                  > > The Blue Light/Blue Star?
                  > > The human mind/brain
                  > > functions similarly and
                  > > when attention is placed
                  > > upon subjects this produces
                  > > chemical and electrical
                  > > reactions. There are even
                  > > mixed but similar responses
                  > > to unconscious stimuli.
                  > > But many people realize
                  > > all of this but tend to
                  > > forget it when seeking
                  > > "spiritual" answers.
                  > >
                  > > People should not have
                  > > faith in the words of
                  > > others. People should
                  > > No Longer give others
                  > > 'the benefit of the doubt.'
                  > >
                  > > Yes, we can look at what
                  > > principles they are sharing
                  > > in order to help us to
                  > > achieve a greater realization
                  > > but we should not limit
                  > > ourselves from going
                  > > beyond the realizations
                  > > and achievements in
                  > > higher consciousness
                  > > of those we view as
                  > > ideals/icons.
                  > >
                  > > Thus, the concept of
                  > > "Master" needs to be
                  > > revised and eliminated.
                  > >
                  > > When the lessons have
                  > > been taught, via real
                  > > world examples of
                  > > living, it then becomes
                  > > our responsibility
                  > > to demonstrate what
                  > > we have learned as
                  > > it pertains to our
                  > > own unique individual
                  > > personality and
                  > > circumstances. We
                  > > move-on and into
                  > > our own unrestricted
                  > > conscious awareness.
                  > >
                  > > IMHO- Jesus, and not
                  > > always his apostles,
                  > > taught some really
                  > > advanced concepts.
                  > > Too advanced for
                  > > most of us today!
                  > >
                  > > I'll never forget this
                  > > one Fung Fu episode
                  > > where Cain ran into
                  > > some religious fanatics
                  > > who would not defend
                  > > themselves and would
                  > > turn the other cheek.
                  > > Cain showed them that
                  > > there was a third response.
                  > > Instead of becoming
                  > > a victim of violence,
                  > > or responding with
                  > > violence Cain stopped/
                  > > blocked the violence
                  > > i.e. punch or object
                  > > and redirected its
                  > > intended path.
                  > >
                  > > Anyway, I've heard
                  > > sounds when first
                  > > starting to mediate
                  > > via TM. Everyone
                  > > heard these tones.
                  > > Generally the mind
                  > > blocks out these
                  > > background noises
                  > > until it quiets down
                  > > and empties itself.
                  > > Actually, one can
                  > > follow these sounds
                  > > without placing
                  > > too much attention
                  > > on them. That's the
                  > > trick. One doesn't
                  > > place attention or
                  > > attachment on any
                  > > thought, imaginary
                  > > vision or sound no
                  > > matter how pleasant.
                  > >
                  > > Eventually, this will
                  > > produce other by-
                  > > products of awareness
                  > > such as contentment.
                  > >
                  > > I have to say that one
                  > > must discover their
                  > > own reality. Don't take
                  > > my word for anything.
                  > > Divine Awareness is
                  > > an individual experience
                  > > and not a group path.
                  > > I called it "Divine Awareness"
                  > > in oder to give this
                  > > private and personal
                  > > Discovery by Soul a
                  > > special designation.
                  > > By referring to the
                  > > uniqueness of the
                  > > individual experience
                  > > as 'Soul' does likewise.
                  > >
                  > > I will have to say that
                  > > I've had help in validating
                  > > that there is a Reality
                  > > beyond the scientific
                  > > explanations and that
                  > > of religious dogma.
                  > >
                  > > I can only say that
                  > > the Soulmate concept
                  > > (IMO) is real in that
                  > > it helps these Souls
                  > > to form a special
                  > > bond in order to merge
                  > > and harmonize their
                  > > vibrations and to better
                  > > 'tune-in' to glimpses
                  > > of, perhaps, our true
                  > > origins and potential
                  > > but also of this Here
                  > > and Now.
                  > >
                  > > Prometheus
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > "Tyson" wrote:
                  > > The sound current, bani,
                  > > shabd or nam is real.
                  > >
                  > > There is no religion that
                  > > can claim it as there own.
                  > >
                  > > What is fiction is the
                  > > dependance on a master
                  > > that is created by religions
                  > > of the light and sound.
                  > >
                  > > Only one initiation is
                  > > important.
                  > >
                  > > Yet faith in a past master
                  > > such as Christ, Krishna
                  > > or Guru Nanak is just as
                  > > valid.
                  > >
                  > > There is no mahanta.
                  > >
                  > > The blue star is no
                  > > other than a manifestation
                  > > created by a meeting
                  > > between the holy spirit
                  > > and ones higher self
                  > > (soul).
                  > >
                  > > For Harold to claim to
                  > > be the blue star is a
                  > > way to snare the gullible.
                  > > He is no more the blue
                  > > star than the second
                  > > coming of christ.
                  > >
                  > > I had heard the rushing
                  > > wind as a member of
                  > > eckankar so I wrongly
                  > > believed that this path
                  > > must be true.
                  > >
                  > > It was meditation on
                  > > the third eye that brought
                  > > the rushing wind, not
                  > > Klemp.
                  > >
                  > > Eckankar was taken from
                  > > the Sihk word Ek Ong Kar.
                  > > Ek Ong Kar means one
                  > > divine energy permeates
                  > > all things.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Russ wrote:
                  > > > I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is ex eckist, interviewing
                  > > David Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.
                  > >
                  > > > One of the interviewees, a man made a statement, paraphrasing here, that in
                  > > his mind it doesn't matter where the writings of eckankar come from because he
                  > > is finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it's more important to have a
                  > > connection with the sound current.
                  > > >
                  > > > I used to have that exact point of view. What changed for me?
                  > > >
                  > > > One thing I used to feel good about when talking about eck was this idea that
                  > > it has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was synonymous with the sound
                  > > current.
                  > > >
                  > > > It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored for a decade, after
                  > > becoming a 5th. I could no longer ignore this dissonance, caused by the
                  > > plaigarism and ultimately this had led to me dropping out of eckankar.
                  > > >
                  > > > I have a question concerning the sound current. I experience this sound,
                  > > sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous to my study of eck. Maybe
                  > > it isn't important, where you read about it, if you take it as a principle and
                  > > work with it.
                  > > >
                  > > > Do you folks think the sound current is bogus? Delusions?
                  > > >
                  > > > This is an interesting point because I am interested in truth...
                  > > >
                  > > > BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion, good work. But this by
                  > > itself doesn't go to the underlying issues concerning the question, "What is the
                  > > Truth regarding the idea of the sound current as a way of connection with the
                  > > Divine??"
                  > > >
                  > > > Thanks,
                  > > >
                  > > > Russ
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • prometheus_973
                  Hello All, Here s more info on Soulmates, but from a Jewish perspective. As you can see all one needs to do is some tweaking, as PT did with Sant Mat, and
                  Message 8 of 22 , Dec 6, 2012
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                    Hello All,
                    Here's more info on Soulmates,
                    but from a Jewish perspective.
                    As you can see all one needs
                    to do is some tweaking, as
                    PT did with Sant Mat, and voilà!

                    However, this is the half +
                    half = whole (Soul) perspective.

                    Then, again, there's a
                    mention of reincarnation
                    and the one soul coming
                    back to help the other
                    soul complete their mission,
                    although, the other soul
                    has difficulty (is punished,
                    via karma?) in finding this
                    returning soulmate.

                    It seems that the Soulmate
                    concept is used by some
                    religions and is overlooked
                    by others. But the fact that
                    religions even address it,
                    much less define it with
                    such limitations, tends
                    to invalidate it for many
                    people, and validates it,
                    in some way, for others.


                    "Kabbalah teaches that a soul's heavenly source has male and female halves.

                    There is no doubt that the "compatible helper" [paraphrasing Gen. 2:18] that G-d has intended for a man may assist him in his task. Yet, there is much more to it than that. A single person is unable to complete the rectification that he is to perform in this world. A soul's heavenly source has male and female halves, which are incarnated into the world as a man and a woman. The incarnation of the two does not necessarily occur simultaneously. As a result, only when the man and woman are righteous do they attain the privilege to meet and wed their real soulmate.

                    By means of three steps of the marriage ceremony, the three main levels of a man's soul…become bound to those of his wife….

                    Until marriage, however, a man continues to be a half soul. By means of three steps of the marriage ceremony, the three main levels of a man's soul, the Nefesh, the Ruach and the Neshama, become bound to those of his wife, and they both become one being, with one joint spiritual structure.

                    Consequently, each spouse may only reach spiritual fulfillment and perfection by means of their union, when their lives are conducted with purity.

                    Even when the man and woman who get married are not real soulmates - which is often the case in our time - they have to accomplish together a rectification that was assigned to them in Heaven. Sometimes, per divine decree, a person is unable to find a compatible mate. It is nevertheless the unmarried person's duty to keep trying to find a spouse, for one may only reach one's spiritual potential through marriage, and a decree may change at any time that the person achieves whatever rectification is personally required before he can find a mate.

                    His soulmate is allowed to incarnate with him…in order to help him….

                    When a man comes into this world without a heavy debt to rectify, he may meet his soulmate and marry her without much effort. The Ari cites the case of a man who sins and has to reincarnate, whereas his soulmate has completed her task in this world and has no further need of incarnation. (Shaar HaGilgulim, 20) In special cases, his soulmate is allowed to incarnate with him, and she will came back to this world with him in order to help him. When the time comes for him to get married, however, he will not find her effortlessly as in the first case, but after an intense search and struggle. Since he reincarnated because of a sin he committed, the Accusers on high speak against him; they want him to be prevented from meeting her, on the grounds that he does not deserve it. So they spread animosity between the couple and they later quarrel. That is why it is written that making couples is as difficult as splitting the Red Sea!

                    [Translated by Simcha Benyosef]"



                    prometheus_wrote:
                    >
                    > Hello Non eckchains and All,
                    > The Soulmate theory
                    > phenomena is an interesting
                    > spiritual perspective
                    > and is, actually, unlimited
                    > by conventional New Age
                    > thought. Eckankar (PT)
                    > reinvented it with a
                    > Twin-Soul perspective.
                    > This is interesting, but
                    > IMO it shouldn't be limited
                    > to or by PT's "Twin" Soul
                    > view and a single pairing
                    > only.
                    >
                    > Thus, the connection that
                    > some/many Souls have with
                    > one another (IMO) s/b referred
                    > to in the plural. Thus, Soulmates
                    > is more than one pairing.
                    > Unfortunately, for Eckists,
                    > Klemp has them locked into
                    > a "Twin" concept when there
                    > are Triplets and many more!
                    > This phenomena can be
                    > a special connection/attraction
                    > with lifelong friends, as well,
                    > and not always be with sexual
                    > partners.
                    >
                    > As far as Klemp's fraud
                    > and his "frownish and fakish"
                    > H.I.'s, well, that's to be
                    > expected when they emulate
                    > HK's own behaviour via clues
                    > with the way the EK hierarchy
                    > is run or the way in which
                    > he speaks/refers to Joan and/
                    > or tells his stories.
                    >
                    > With Klemp there's a lack
                    > of forgiveness, compassion,
                    > and empathy. These are
                    > missing from Klemp's own
                    > perspectives in his own life
                    > stories.
                    >
                    > It's easy for HK to judge
                    > others and point out flaws
                    > or to add "insight" and to
                    > do EK tweaks on the letters
                    > sent to him. And, that's
                    > what Klemp does when
                    > he "writes" in his hermit
                    > batty cave.
                    >
                    > Thus, many of HK's RESAs
                    > emulate his lack of empathy,
                    > compassion, and forgiveness.
                    > They talk a lot about "love"
                    > but when it comes to the
                    > business/spiritual side of
                    > Eckankar and the "Guidelines,"
                    > as set forth by HK via the
                    > ESC, there is not much room
                    > leftover for the byproducts
                    > of love.
                    >
                    > Look at the way the Higher
                    > initiations are handed out.
                    > There are always strings
                    > attached and it has more
                    > to do with "Outer" posturing
                    > and faking it with physical
                    > requirements. What is said,
                    > or isn't said, to the RESA
                    > or done as a volunteer,
                    > has more weight than
                    > anything else, like one's
                    > visible goodness. The
                    > superficial has more
                    > importance in deciding
                    > who gets a pink slip than
                    > demonstrating a love for
                    > God.
                    >
                    > Long-time Eckists who
                    > are loyal and loving and
                    > are very nice people are
                    > excluded from becoming
                    > H.I.s because they haven't
                    > jumped through enough
                    > physical hoops of training,
                    > retraining, volunteering, etc.
                    > Or, maybe they didn't seem
                    > like a 'take charge" leader
                    > or have a college education
                    > and/or were high profile
                    > professionals.
                    >
                    > It's amazing how petty
                    > RESAs can be, and these
                    > people are the "righthand"
                    > of Klemp.
                    >
                    > In truth, many people who
                    > left Eckankar did so out of
                    > frustration caused via neglect
                    > and unloving behavior towards
                    > them.
                    >
                    > Once you've become an EK
                    > member Klemp's main goal
                    > has been achieved. From
                    > there HK dangles the carrot
                    > for the higher initiations
                    > and, now, makes it very
                    > difficult to achieve the 7th.
                    > Eckists need to become
                    > ESAs to become RESAs
                    > and unless you're already
                    > an ESA it's, now, much
                    > more difficult to achieve.
                    > And, for a 6th ESA to get
                    > the 7th they, usually, need
                    > to become a RESA.
                    >
                    > Thus, Klemp slowed-down
                    > Initiations in 1985 due to
                    > Darwin making 500 new
                    > 5ths before leaving office.
                    > So, more that 25 years later
                    > what is Klemp's excuse for
                    > not making more H.I.s and
                    > for not expanding the "outer"
                    > initiations and their numbers?
                    >
                    > It's actually a simple/obvious
                    > explanation. Klemp is selfish.
                    >
                    > Klemp's lack of empathy,
                    > compassion, forgiveness and
                    > real, true love for his fellow
                    > eckists, and the trickle-down
                    > effect within the EK Hierarchy,
                    > is why Eckankar and ECKists
                    > are broken and lost. Their
                    > delusional faith and fellowship
                    > (it's a numbers game) is
                    > what they cling to as do
                    > all religionists. Yet, as with
                    > all religionists, their faith
                    > has the only chosen ones
                    > who have been gifted with
                    > special insight into God
                    > (or whatever name they use).
                    > EK is simply more of the same
                    > but tweaked to fit a special
                    > New Age/Metaphysical mindset.
                    > It's the Easy Way until those,
                    > now, with less than 30 plus
                    > years want a 6th or 7th
                    > initiation.
                    >
                    > Prometheus
                    >
                    >
                    > "Non" eckchains wrote:
                    > I agree with a lot of what you have said here. I don't quite get the Soulmate
                    > though. I have been met with mostly great difficulty in actualizing this, even
                    > though it sounds quite nice. I am open to experiencing this, yet I am also
                    > naturally intuitive and also he who questions a lot and enjoys experimenting and
                    > investigating. Most people I meet are into holding tight to their beliefs and
                    > don't like being around someone like me, if I am just being myself. For some
                    > reason I ruffle feathers so maybe that means I need to stay away from certain
                    > Birds. :) I don't know the answer.
                    >
                    > As far as the sound current. My experience has been dreams of beautiful music
                    > sometimes, but also just feeling. Not everyone is musical. The sound current and
                    > light may actually be too limiting. It is based on our two most used human
                    > senses, seeing and hearing. There is so much more richness involved. We are
                    > lacking in our sense of smell and there are other senses that other animals know
                    > and experience that make us look like idiots sometimes. Humans are very arrogant
                    > because of our superior ability to manipulate our environment, something that if
                    > unchecked can and does cause great havoc, destruction and killing just to kill.
                    >
                    > Feeling and intuition is very under rated. Feelings allow us to have compassion
                    > and empathy. That is a vibration I wish there was more of. People don't like it,
                    > because it also means that we may have to relate to the pain of another, or to
                    > our own pain. People are too hardened IMHO. At the same time, bless the ones who
                    > act out of compassion to advocate and fight those who are indifferent to at
                    > least living with some level of a little empathy. I think they have compassion
                    > in them, it is just repressed, and imo is always pushing to express. I dare say,
                    > that even klemp and his HI's are so frownish and fakish, because that is how you
                    > repress feelings and natural compassion. It is harder for humans, because we are
                    > more self-aware. Native American life often at least had sacred rituals for
                    > killing to eat. We are lost..... Light and sound meditations may just be a
                    > distraction and limiting us from our Whole Being. We cannot cut off a part of
                    > ourselves and Be our Whole Being, imo.
                    >
                    > Non ; )
                    >
                    >
                    > <prometheus wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Hello Tyson, Russ, and All,
                    > > I believe that religious myth
                    > > was created to explain away
                    > > the phenomenal, and that
                    > > religion was created in order
                    > > to control the masses and,
                    > > thus, use this undertaking
                    > > for money, power, greed,
                    > > status and other self-benefits
                    > > for the hierarchies.
                    > >
                    > > The Blue Light/Blue Star?
                    > > The human mind/brain
                    > > functions similarly and
                    > > when attention is placed
                    > > upon subjects this produces
                    > > chemical and electrical
                    > > reactions. There are even
                    > > mixed but similar responses
                    > > to unconscious stimuli.
                    > > But many people realize
                    > > all of this but tend to
                    > > forget it when seeking
                    > > "spiritual" answers.
                    > >
                    > > People should not have
                    > > faith in the words of
                    > > others. People should
                    > > No Longer give others
                    > > 'the benefit of the doubt.'
                    > >
                    > > Yes, we can look at what
                    > > principles they are sharing
                    > > in order to help us to
                    > > achieve a greater realization
                    > > but we should not limit
                    > > ourselves from going
                    > > beyond the realizations
                    > > and achievements in
                    > > higher consciousness
                    > > of those we view as
                    > > ideals/icons.
                    > >
                    > > Thus, the concept of
                    > > "Master" needs to be
                    > > revised and eliminated.
                    > >
                    > > When the lessons have
                    > > been taught, via real
                    > > world examples of
                    > > living, it then becomes
                    > > our responsibility
                    > > to demonstrate what
                    > > we have learned as
                    > > it pertains to our
                    > > own unique individual
                    > > personality and
                    > > circumstances. We
                    > > move-on and into
                    > > our own unrestricted
                    > > conscious awareness.
                    > >
                    > > IMHO- Jesus, and not
                    > > always his apostles,
                    > > taught some really
                    > > advanced concepts.
                    > > Too advanced for
                    > > most of us today!
                    > >
                    > > I'll never forget this
                    > > one Fung Fu episode
                    > > where Cain ran into
                    > > some religious fanatics
                    > > who would not defend
                    > > themselves and would
                    > > turn the other cheek.
                    > > Cain showed them that
                    > > there was a third response.
                    > > Instead of becoming
                    > > a victim of violence,
                    > > or responding with
                    > > violence Cain stopped/
                    > > blocked the violence
                    > > i.e. punch or object
                    > > and redirected its
                    > > intended path.
                    > >
                    > > Anyway, I've heard
                    > > sounds when first
                    > > starting to mediate
                    > > via TM. Everyone
                    > > heard these tones.
                    > > Generally the mind
                    > > blocks out these
                    > > background noises
                    > > until it quiets down
                    > > and empties itself.
                    > > Actually, one can
                    > > follow these sounds
                    > > without placing
                    > > too much attention
                    > > on them. That's the
                    > > trick. One doesn't
                    > > place attention or
                    > > attachment on any
                    > > thought, imaginary
                    > > vision or sound no
                    > > matter how pleasant.
                    > >
                    > > Eventually, this will
                    > > produce other by-
                    > > products of awareness
                    > > such as contentment.
                    > >
                    > > I have to say that one
                    > > must discover their
                    > > own reality. Don't take
                    > > my word for anything.
                    > > Divine Awareness is
                    > > an individual experience
                    > > and not a group path.
                    > > I called it "Divine Awareness"
                    > > in oder to give this
                    > > private and personal
                    > > Discovery by Soul a
                    > > special designation.
                    > > By referring to the
                    > > uniqueness of the
                    > > individual experience
                    > > as 'Soul' does likewise.
                    > >
                    > > I will have to say that
                    > > I've had help in validating
                    > > that there is a Reality
                    > > beyond the scientific
                    > > explanations and that
                    > > of religious dogma.
                    > >
                    > > I can only say that
                    > > the Soulmate concept
                    > > (IMO) is real in that
                    > > it helps these Souls
                    > > to form a special
                    > > bond in order to merge
                    > > and harmonize their
                    > > vibrations and to better
                    > > 'tune-in' to glimpses
                    > > of, perhaps, our true
                    > > origins and potential
                    > > but also of this Here
                    > > and Now.
                    > >
                    > > Prometheus
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > "Tyson" wrote:
                    > > The sound current, bani,
                    > > shabd or nam is real.
                    > >
                    > > There is no religion that
                    > > can claim it as there own.
                    > >
                    > > What is fiction is the
                    > > dependance on a master
                    > > that is created by religions
                    > > of the light and sound.
                    > >
                    > > Only one initiation is
                    > > important.
                    > >
                    > > Yet faith in a past master
                    > > such as Christ, Krishna
                    > > or Guru Nanak is just as
                    > > valid.
                    > >
                    > > There is no mahanta.
                    > >
                    > > The blue star is no
                    > > other than a manifestation
                    > > created by a meeting
                    > > between the holy spirit
                    > > and ones higher self
                    > > (soul).
                    > >
                    > > For Harold to claim to
                    > > be the blue star is a
                    > > way to snare the gullible.
                    > > He is no more the blue
                    > > star than the second
                    > > coming of christ.
                    > >
                    > > I had heard the rushing
                    > > wind as a member of
                    > > eckankar so I wrongly
                    > > believed that this path
                    > > must be true.
                    > >
                    > > It was meditation on
                    > > the third eye that brought
                    > > the rushing wind, not
                    > > Klemp.
                    > >
                    > > Eckankar was taken from
                    > > the Sihk word Ek Ong Kar.
                    > > Ek Ong Kar means one
                    > > divine energy permeates
                    > > all things.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Russ wrote:
                    > > > I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is ex eckist, interviewing
                    > > David Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.
                    > >
                    > > > One of the interviewees, a man made a statement, paraphrasing here, that in
                    > > his mind it doesn't matter where the writings of eckankar come from because he
                    > > is finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it's more important to have
                    > a
                    > > connection with the sound current.
                    > > >
                    > > > I used to have that exact point of view. What changed for me?
                    > > >
                    > > > One thing I used to feel good about when talking about eck was this idea
                    > that
                    > > it has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was synonymous with the
                    > sound
                    > > current.
                    > > >
                    > > > It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored for a decade, after
                    > > becoming a 5th. I could no longer ignore this dissonance, caused by the
                    > > plaigarism and ultimately this had led to me dropping out of eckankar.
                    > > >
                    > > > I have a question concerning the sound current. I experience this sound,
                    > > sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous to my study of eck.
                    > Maybe
                    > > it isn't important, where you read about it, if you take it as a principle and
                    > > work with it.
                    > > >
                    > > > Do you folks think the sound current is bogus? Delusions?
                    > > >
                    > > > This is an interesting point because I am interested in truth...
                    > > >
                    > > > BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion, good work. But this by
                    > > itself doesn't go to the underlying issues concerning the question, "What is
                    > the
                    > > Truth regarding the idea of the sound current as a way of connection with the
                    > > Divine??"
                    > > >
                    > > > Thanks,
                    > > >
                    > > > Russ
                    >
                  • etznab18
                    I don t believe Paul Twitchell reinvented the Soul Mates thing. It looks to me more like he plagiarized, or paraphrased about it (adding his own spin as well,
                    Message 9 of 22 , Dec 7, 2012
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                      I don't believe Paul Twitchell reinvented the Soul Mates thing. It looks to me more like he plagiarized, or paraphrased about it (adding his own spin as well, under the guise of Eck Masters, etc.). But hey, Eckankar is not a cult and it's against spiritual law to push one's beliefs on another :) If you don't believe me just read the FAQ section on Eckankar's web site. Look for the question: Is Eckankar a cult?

                      ***

                      There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book, Dialogues With The Master (1970), called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.

                      Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness (first published in 1913?) - and compare the text with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to Paul Twitchell in Dialogues With The Master.

                      http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up

                      http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNomad.pdf

                      ***

                      Remember that controversial subject of Soul Mates which appeared in Paul Twitche;ll's earlier books (I thought it was TTF, but here is something in DWTM)?

                      Ali Nomad:

                      Each and every SOUL, therefore, has its spiritual counterpart--its "other half," with which it unites on the spiritual plane, when the time comes for attainment of immortality.

                      Lord Sohang:

                      "Each and every Soul, therefore, in the lower worlds has its spiritual counterpart - its other half with which it unites on the spiritual plane, when the time comes for the attainment of the highest goal of the world of Brahm and that counterpart is the ECK Spirit." (DWTM p. 176)

                      https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!searchin/alt.religion.eckankar/soul$20mates|sort:date/alt.religion.eckankar/9_e16rhw3gA/3VmvQQ811QsJ

                      Now of course it depends on who Paul Twitchell is plagiarizing, as the information can vary. It can even appear contradictory. Example:

                      [...] But unless the union has already been made in heaven through pure love, the physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness, for like all true sacraments it must be entered into and registered upon all planes. (p. 220)
                      The Law of Divine Love will bring to each Soul its true marriage, a union in perfect purity on all planes. This according to the one life-theory is of course impossible for all; but since reincarnation is a fact, the Soul, through repeated experiences, learns to follow its Divine Guidance, hence will ultimately find its true mate. But they can be spiritually as well as physically married to their mates only when the old accounts of both have been balanced and the old complications set up through the mistakes of the past have been worked out. [... .]. (p. 221)

                      The Voice Of Isis And Realms Of The Living Dead, by Harriett Augusta Curtiss

                      http://archive.org/stream/TheVoiceOfIsis2ndEdition/CurtissFhAndHaTheVoiceOfIsis2ndEdition_djvu.txt

                      Rebazar Tarzs in DWTM:

                      "Now for the part of union between man and woman. Unless this union has been made on the higher planes through pure thought, the physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness, for like all true sacraments it must be entered into and registered upon all planes.
                      "The law of divine love will bring to each Soul Its true marriage and union in perfect purity on all planes. This true marriage is that of Soul with the ECK - the polarization of each Soul - not two Souls or man and woman coming together. And, as it is, each Soul will be guided through repeated experience by divine guidance until It finds this true love, the love of ECK through the Mahanta. You can be spiritually as well as physically married to a mate only when the old accounts of both have been balanced, and old complications set up through mistakes of the past have been worked out. (p. 115)

                      (My guess is that someone revised the original DWTM manuscript since the ECK (all caps) trademark didn't come about until 1968 and the Mahanta term didn't come into vogue until 1969; whereas the DWTM manuscript was reportedly written in 1956!)

                      Now I remember (I think it was in The Tiger's Fang, Or was it The Eck-Vidya?) some Soul Mates controversy in Eckankar history where I believe Harold Klemp and Eckankar had to "correct" what Paul Twitchell earlier wrote. It was no longer about two people coming together, but a person finding (in so many words) their own "higher self".

                      I haven't finished checking all the references to Soul Mates in all of Paul's books, so don't just go on what I quoted from DWTM.

                      ***

                      Btw, my Yahoo has been bouncing since Nov. 28 so I've been out of the loop since then and hadn't received any posts via email. Just now are catching up.

                      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hello Non eckchains and All,
                      > The Soulmate theory
                      > phenomena is an interesting
                      > spiritual perspective
                      > and is, actually, unlimited
                      > by conventional New Age
                      > thought. Eckankar (PT)
                      > reinvented it with a
                      > Twin-Soul perspective.
                      > This is interesting, but
                      > IMO it shouldn't be limited
                      > to or by PT's "Twin" Soul
                      > view and a single pairing
                      > only.
                      >
                      > Thus, the connection that
                      > some/many Souls have with
                      > one another (IMO) s/b referred
                      > to in the plural. Thus, Soulmates
                      > is more than one pairing.
                      > Unfortunately, for Eckists,
                      > Klemp has them locked into
                      > a "Twin" concept when there
                      > are Triplets and many more!
                      > This phenomena can be
                      > a special connection/attraction
                      > with lifelong friends, as well,
                      > and not always be with sexual
                      > partners.
                      >
                      > As far as Klemp's fraud
                      > and his "frownish and fakish"
                      > H.I.'s, well, that's to be
                      > expected when they emulate
                      > HK's own behaviour via clues
                      > with the way the EK hierarchy
                      > is run or the way in which
                      > he speaks/refers to Joan and/
                      > or tells his stories.
                      >
                      > With Klemp there's a lack
                      > of forgiveness, compassion,
                      > and empathy. These are
                      > missing from Klemp's own
                      > perspectives in his own life
                      > stories.
                      >
                      > It's easy for him to judge
                      > others and point out flaws
                      > or to add "insight" and to
                      > do EK tweaks on the letters
                      > sent to him. And, that's
                      > what Klemp does when
                      > he "writes" in his hermit
                      > batty cave.
                      >
                      > Thus, many of HK's RESAs
                      > emulate his lack of empathy,
                      > compassion, and forgiveness.
                      > They talk a lot about "love"
                      > but when it comes to the
                      > business/spiritual side of
                      > Eckankar and the "Guidelines,"
                      > as set forth by HK via the
                      > ESC, there is not much room
                      > leftover for the byproducts
                      > of love.
                      >
                      > Look at the way the Higher
                      > initiations are handed out.
                      > There are always strings
                      > attached and it has more
                      > to do with "Outer" posturing
                      > and faking it with physical
                      > requirements. What is said
                      > or isn't said to the RESA
                      > or done as a volunteer,
                      > than with anything else
                      > or with one's visible goodness,
                      > has more importance in
                      > deciding who gets a pink
                      > slip. It's not love for God.
                      > Long-time Eckists who
                      > are loyal and loving and
                      > are very nice people are
                      > excluded from becoming
                      > H.I.s because they haven't
                      > jumped through enough
                      > physical hoops of training,
                      > retraining, volunteering, etc.
                      >
                      > Or, maybe they didn't seem
                      > like a 'take charge" leader
                      > or have a college education
                      > and/or were high profile
                      > professionals. It's amazing
                      > how petty RESAs can be,
                      > and these people are the
                      > "righthand" of Klemp.
                      >
                      > In truth, many people who
                      > left Eckankar did so out of
                      > frustration caused via neglect
                      > and unloving behavior towards
                      > them. Once you've become
                      > a member their main goal
                      > has been achieved. From
                      > there they dangle the carrot
                      > for the higher initiations
                      > and, now, make it very
                      > difficult to achieve the 7th.
                      > Eckists need to become
                      > ESAs to become RESAs
                      > and unless you're already
                      > an ESA it's, now, much
                      > more difficult to achieve.
                      > And, for a 6th ESA to get
                      > the 7th they, usually, need
                      > to become a RESA.
                      >
                      > Thus, Klemp slowed-down
                      > Initiations in 1985 due to
                      > Darwin making 500 new
                      > 5ths before leaving office.
                      > So, more that 25 years later
                      > what is Klemp's excuse for
                      > not making more H.I.s and
                      > for not expanding the "outer"
                      > initiations and their numbers?
                      >
                      > It's actually a simple/obvious
                      > explanation. Klemp is selfish.
                      >
                      > Klemp's lack of empathy,
                      > compassion, forgiveness and
                      > real, true love for his fellow
                      > eckists, and the trickle-down
                      > effect within the EK Hierarchy,
                      > is why Eckankar and ECKists
                      > are broken and lost. Their
                      > delusional faith and fellowship
                      > (it's a numbers game) is
                      > what they cling to as do
                      > all religionists. Yet, as with
                      > all religionists, their faith
                      > has the only chosen ones
                      > who have been gifted with
                      > special insight into God
                      > (or whatever name they use).
                      > EK is simply more of the same
                      > but tweaked to fit a special
                      > New Age/Metaphysical mindset.
                      > It's the Easy Way until those,
                      > now, with less than 30 plus
                      > years want a 6th or 7th
                      > initiation.
                      >
                      > Prometheus
                      >
                      >
                      > "Non" eckchains wrote:
                      > I agree with a lot of what you have said here. I don't quite get the Soulmate
                      > though. I have been met with mostly great difficulty in actualizing this, even
                      > though it sounds quite nice. I am open to experiencing this, yet I am also
                      > naturally intuitive and also he who questions a lot and enjoys experimenting and
                      > investigating. Most people I meet are into holding tight to their beliefs and
                      > don't like being around someone like me, if I am just being myself. For some
                      > reason I ruffle feathers so maybe that means I need to stay away from certain
                      > Birds. :) I don't know the answer.
                      >
                      > As far as the sound current. My experience has been dreams of beautiful music
                      > sometimes, but also just feeling. Not everyone is musical. The sound current and
                      > light may actually be too limiting. It is based on our two most used human
                      > senses, seeing and hearing. There is so much more richness involved. We are
                      > lacking in our sense of smell and there are other senses that other animals know
                      > and experience that make us look like idiots sometimes. Humans are very arrogant
                      > because of our superior ability to manipulate our environment, something that if
                      > unchecked can and does cause great havoc, destruction and killing just to kill.
                      >
                      > Feeling and intuition is very under rated. Feelings allow us to have compassion
                      > and empathy. That is a vibration I wish there was more of. People don't like it,
                      > because it also means that we may have to relate to the pain of another, or to
                      > our own pain. People are too hardened IMHO. At the same time, bless the ones who
                      > act out of compassion to advocate and fight those who are indifferent to at
                      > least living with some level of a little empathy. I think they have compassion
                      > in them, it is just repressed, and imo is always pushing to express. I dare say,
                      > that even klemp and his HI's are so frownish and fakish, because that is how you
                      > repress feelings and natural compassion. It is harder for humans, because we are
                      > more self-aware. Native American life often at least had sacred rituals for
                      > killing to eat. We are lost..... Light and sound meditations may just be a
                      > distraction and limiting us from our Whole Being. We cannot cut off a part of
                      > ourselves and Be our Whole Being, imo.
                      >
                      > Non ; )
                      >
                      >
                      > <prometheus wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Hello Tyson, Russ, and All,
                      > > I believe that religious myth
                      > > was created to explain away
                      > > the phenomenal, and that
                      > > religion was created in order
                      > > to control the masses and,
                      > > thus, use this undertaking
                      > > for money, power, greed,
                      > > status and other self-benefits
                      > > for the hierarchies.
                      > >
                      > > The Blue Light/Blue Star?
                      > > The human mind/brain
                      > > functions similarly and
                      > > when attention is placed
                      > > upon subjects this produces
                      > > chemical and electrical
                      > > reactions. There are even
                      > > mixed but similar responses
                      > > to unconscious stimuli.
                      > > But many people realize
                      > > all of this but tend to
                      > > forget it when seeking
                      > > "spiritual" answers.
                      > >
                      > > People should not have
                      > > faith in the words of
                      > > others. People should
                      > > No Longer give others
                      > > 'the benefit of the doubt.'
                      > >
                      > > Yes, we can look at what
                      > > principles they are sharing
                      > > in order to help us to
                      > > achieve a greater realization
                      > > but we should not limit
                      > > ourselves from going
                      > > beyond the realizations
                      > > and achievements in
                      > > higher consciousness
                      > > of those we view as
                      > > ideals/icons.
                      > >
                      > > Thus, the concept of
                      > > "Master" needs to be
                      > > revised and eliminated.
                      > >
                      > > When the lessons have
                      > > been taught, via real
                      > > world examples of
                      > > living, it then becomes
                      > > our responsibility
                      > > to demonstrate what
                      > > we have learned as
                      > > it pertains to our
                      > > own unique individual
                      > > personality and
                      > > circumstances. We
                      > > move-on and into
                      > > our own unrestricted
                      > > conscious awareness.
                      > >
                      > > IMHO- Jesus, and not
                      > > always his apostles,
                      > > taught some really
                      > > advanced concepts.
                      > > Too advanced for
                      > > most of us today!
                      > >
                      > > I'll never forget this
                      > > one Fung Fu episode
                      > > where Cain ran into
                      > > some religious fanatics
                      > > who would not defend
                      > > themselves and would
                      > > turn the other cheek.
                      > > Cain showed them that
                      > > there was a third response.
                      > > Instead of becoming
                      > > a victim of violence,
                      > > or responding with
                      > > violence Cain stopped/
                      > > blocked the violence
                      > > i.e. punch or object
                      > > and redirected its
                      > > intended path.
                      > >
                      > > Anyway, I've heard
                      > > sounds when first
                      > > starting to mediate
                      > > via TM. Everyone
                      > > heard these tones.
                      > > Generally the mind
                      > > blocks out these
                      > > background noises
                      > > until it quiets down
                      > > and empties itself.
                      > > Actually, one can
                      > > follow these sounds
                      > > without placing
                      > > too much attention
                      > > on them. That's the
                      > > trick. One doesn't
                      > > place attention or
                      > > attachment on any
                      > > thought, imaginary
                      > > vision or sound no
                      > > matter how pleasant.
                      > >
                      > > Eventually, this will
                      > > produce other by-
                      > > products of awareness
                      > > such as contentment.
                      > >
                      > > I have to say that one
                      > > must discover their
                      > > own reality. Don't take
                      > > my word for anything.
                      > > Divine Awareness is
                      > > an individual experience
                      > > and not a group path.
                      > > I called it "Divine Awareness"
                      > > in oder to give this
                      > > private and personal
                      > > Discovery by Soul a
                      > > special designation.
                      > > By referring to the
                      > > uniqueness of the
                      > > individual experience
                      > > as 'Soul' does likewise.
                      > >
                      > > I will have to say that
                      > > I've had help in validating
                      > > that there is a Reality
                      > > beyond the scientific
                      > > explanations and that
                      > > of religious dogma.
                      > >
                      > > I can only say that
                      > > the Soulmate concept
                      > > (IMO) is real in that
                      > > it helps these Souls
                      > > to form a special
                      > > bond in order to merge
                      > > and harmonize their
                      > > vibrations and to better
                      > > 'tune-in' to glimpses
                      > > of, perhaps, our true
                      > > origins and potential
                      > > but also of this Here
                      > > and Now.
                      > >
                      > > Prometheus
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > "Tyson" wrote:
                      > > The sound current, bani,
                      > > shabd or nam is real.
                      > >
                      > > There is no religion that
                      > > can claim it as there own.
                      > >
                      > > What is fiction is the
                      > > dependance on a master
                      > > that is created by religions
                      > > of the light and sound.
                      > >
                      > > Only one initiation is
                      > > important.
                      > >
                      > > Yet faith in a past master
                      > > such as Christ, Krishna
                      > > or Guru Nanak is just as
                      > > valid.
                      > >
                      > > There is no mahanta.
                      > >
                      > > The blue star is no
                      > > other than a manifestation
                      > > created by a meeting
                      > > between the holy spirit
                      > > and ones higher self
                      > > (soul).
                      > >
                      > > For Harold to claim to
                      > > be the blue star is a
                      > > way to snare the gullible.
                      > > He is no more the blue
                      > > star than the second
                      > > coming of christ.
                      > >
                      > > I had heard the rushing
                      > > wind as a member of
                      > > eckankar so I wrongly
                      > > believed that this path
                      > > must be true.
                      > >
                      > > It was meditation on
                      > > the third eye that brought
                      > > the rushing wind, not
                      > > Klemp.
                      > >
                      > > Eckankar was taken from
                      > > the Sihk word Ek Ong Kar.
                      > > Ek Ong Kar means one
                      > > divine energy permeates
                      > > all things.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Russ wrote:
                      > > > I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is ex eckist, interviewing
                      > > David Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.
                      > >
                      > > > One of the interviewees, a man made a statement, paraphrasing here, that in
                      > > his mind it doesn't matter where the writings of eckankar come from because he
                      > > is finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it's more important to have
                      > a
                      > > connection with the sound current.
                      > > >
                      > > > I used to have that exact point of view. What changed for me?
                      > > >
                      > > > One thing I used to feel good about when talking about eck was this idea
                      > that
                      > > it has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was synonymous with the
                      > sound
                      > > current.
                      > > >
                      > > > It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored for a decade, after
                      > > becoming a 5th. I could no longer ignore this dissonance, caused by the
                      > > plaigarism and ultimately this had led to me dropping out of eckankar.
                      > > >
                      > > > I have a question concerning the sound current. I experience this sound,
                      > > sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous to my study of eck.
                      > Maybe
                      > > it isn't important, where you read about it, if you take it as a principle and
                      > > work with it.
                      > > >
                      > > > Do you folks think the sound current is bogus? Delusions?
                      > > >
                      > > > This is an interesting point because I am interested in truth...
                      > > >
                      > > > BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion, good work. But this by
                      > > itself doesn't go to the underlying issues concerning the question, "What is
                      > the
                      > > Truth regarding the idea of the sound current as a way of connection with the
                      > > Divine??"
                      > > >
                      > > > Thanks,
                      > > >
                      > > > Russ
                      >
                    • etznab18
                      I think people just make this stuff up according to what they read and imagine. IMO this instance of the Jewish version traces back to the Torah (or Old
                      Message 10 of 22 , Dec 7, 2012
                      • 0 Attachment
                        I think people just make this stuff up according to what they read and imagine. IMO this instance of the Jewish version traces back to the Torah (or Old Testament) calling woman a "help meet" for man. Nothing more. And of course the Bible most likely plagiarized and manipulated earlier teachings and texts way back when. Nothing new here.

                        http://biblesuite.com/hebrew/5828.htm

                        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hello All,
                        > Here's more info on Soulmates,
                        > but from a Jewish perspective.
                        > As you can see all one needs
                        > to do is some tweaking, as
                        > PT did with Sant Mat, and voilà!
                        >
                        > However, this is the half +
                        > half = whole (Soul) perspective.
                        >
                        > Then, again, there's a
                        > mention of reincarnation
                        > and the one soul coming
                        > back to help the other
                        > soul complete their mission,
                        > although, the other soul
                        > has difficulty (is punished,
                        > via karma?) in finding this
                        > returning soulmate.
                        >
                        > It seems that the Soulmate
                        > concept is used by some
                        > religions and is overlooked
                        > by others. But the fact that
                        > religions even address it,
                        > much less define it with
                        > such limitations, tends
                        > to invalidate it for many
                        > people, and validates it,
                        > in some way, for others.
                        >
                        >
                        > "Kabbalah teaches that a soul's heavenly source has male and female halves.
                        >
                        > There is no doubt that the "compatible helper" [paraphrasing Gen. 2:18] that G-d has intended for a man may assist him in his task. Yet, there is much more to it than that. A single person is unable to complete the rectification that he is to perform in this world. A soul's heavenly source has male and female halves, which are incarnated into the world as a man and a woman. The incarnation of the two does not necessarily occur simultaneously. As a result, only when the man and woman are righteous do they attain the privilege to meet and wed their real soulmate.
                        >
                        > By means of three steps of the marriage ceremony, the three main levels of a man's soul…become bound to those of his wife….
                        >
                        > Until marriage, however, a man continues to be a half soul. By means of three steps of the marriage ceremony, the three main levels of a man's soul, the Nefesh, the Ruach and the Neshama, become bound to those of his wife, and they both become one being, with one joint spiritual structure.
                        >
                        > Consequently, each spouse may only reach spiritual fulfillment and perfection by means of their union, when their lives are conducted with purity.
                        >
                        > Even when the man and woman who get married are not real soulmates - which is often the case in our time - they have to accomplish together a rectification that was assigned to them in Heaven. Sometimes, per divine decree, a person is unable to find a compatible mate. It is nevertheless the unmarried person's duty to keep trying to find a spouse, for one may only reach one's spiritual potential through marriage, and a decree may change at any time that the person achieves whatever rectification is personally required before he can find a mate.
                        >
                        > His soulmate is allowed to incarnate with him…in order to help him….
                        >
                        > When a man comes into this world without a heavy debt to rectify, he may meet his soulmate and marry her without much effort. The Ari cites the case of a man who sins and has to reincarnate, whereas his soulmate has completed her task in this world and has no further need of incarnation. (Shaar HaGilgulim, 20) In special cases, his soulmate is allowed to incarnate with him, and she will came back to this world with him in order to help him. When the time comes for him to get married, however, he will not find her effortlessly as in the first case, but after an intense search and struggle. Since he reincarnated because of a sin he committed, the Accusers on high speak against him; they want him to be prevented from meeting her, on the grounds that he does not deserve it. So they spread animosity between the couple and they later quarrel. That is why it is written that making couples is as difficult as splitting the Red Sea!
                        >
                        > [Translated by Simcha Benyosef]"
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > prometheus_wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Hello Non eckchains and All,
                        > > The Soulmate theory
                        > > phenomena is an interesting
                        > > spiritual perspective
                        > > and is, actually, unlimited
                        > > by conventional New Age
                        > > thought. Eckankar (PT)
                        > > reinvented it with a
                        > > Twin-Soul perspective.
                        > > This is interesting, but
                        > > IMO it shouldn't be limited
                        > > to or by PT's "Twin" Soul
                        > > view and a single pairing
                        > > only.
                        > >
                        > > Thus, the connection that
                        > > some/many Souls have with
                        > > one another (IMO) s/b referred
                        > > to in the plural. Thus, Soulmates
                        > > is more than one pairing.
                        > > Unfortunately, for Eckists,
                        > > Klemp has them locked into
                        > > a "Twin" concept when there
                        > > are Triplets and many more!
                        > > This phenomena can be
                        > > a special connection/attraction
                        > > with lifelong friends, as well,
                        > > and not always be with sexual
                        > > partners.
                        > >
                        > > As far as Klemp's fraud
                        > > and his "frownish and fakish"
                        > > H.I.'s, well, that's to be
                        > > expected when they emulate
                        > > HK's own behaviour via clues
                        > > with the way the EK hierarchy
                        > > is run or the way in which
                        > > he speaks/refers to Joan and/
                        > > or tells his stories.
                        > >
                        > > With Klemp there's a lack
                        > > of forgiveness, compassion,
                        > > and empathy. These are
                        > > missing from Klemp's own
                        > > perspectives in his own life
                        > > stories.
                        > >
                        > > It's easy for HK to judge
                        > > others and point out flaws
                        > > or to add "insight" and to
                        > > do EK tweaks on the letters
                        > > sent to him. And, that's
                        > > what Klemp does when
                        > > he "writes" in his hermit
                        > > batty cave.
                        > >
                        > > Thus, many of HK's RESAs
                        > > emulate his lack of empathy,
                        > > compassion, and forgiveness.
                        > > They talk a lot about "love"
                        > > but when it comes to the
                        > > business/spiritual side of
                        > > Eckankar and the "Guidelines,"
                        > > as set forth by HK via the
                        > > ESC, there is not much room
                        > > leftover for the byproducts
                        > > of love.
                        > >
                        > > Look at the way the Higher
                        > > initiations are handed out.
                        > > There are always strings
                        > > attached and it has more
                        > > to do with "Outer" posturing
                        > > and faking it with physical
                        > > requirements. What is said,
                        > > or isn't said, to the RESA
                        > > or done as a volunteer,
                        > > has more weight than
                        > > anything else, like one's
                        > > visible goodness. The
                        > > superficial has more
                        > > importance in deciding
                        > > who gets a pink slip than
                        > > demonstrating a love for
                        > > God.
                        > >
                        > > Long-time Eckists who
                        > > are loyal and loving and
                        > > are very nice people are
                        > > excluded from becoming
                        > > H.I.s because they haven't
                        > > jumped through enough
                        > > physical hoops of training,
                        > > retraining, volunteering, etc.
                        > > Or, maybe they didn't seem
                        > > like a 'take charge" leader
                        > > or have a college education
                        > > and/or were high profile
                        > > professionals.
                        > >
                        > > It's amazing how petty
                        > > RESAs can be, and these
                        > > people are the "righthand"
                        > > of Klemp.
                        > >
                        > > In truth, many people who
                        > > left Eckankar did so out of
                        > > frustration caused via neglect
                        > > and unloving behavior towards
                        > > them.
                        > >
                        > > Once you've become an EK
                        > > member Klemp's main goal
                        > > has been achieved. From
                        > > there HK dangles the carrot
                        > > for the higher initiations
                        > > and, now, makes it very
                        > > difficult to achieve the 7th.
                        > > Eckists need to become
                        > > ESAs to become RESAs
                        > > and unless you're already
                        > > an ESA it's, now, much
                        > > more difficult to achieve.
                        > > And, for a 6th ESA to get
                        > > the 7th they, usually, need
                        > > to become a RESA.
                        > >
                        > > Thus, Klemp slowed-down
                        > > Initiations in 1985 due to
                        > > Darwin making 500 new
                        > > 5ths before leaving office.
                        > > So, more that 25 years later
                        > > what is Klemp's excuse for
                        > > not making more H.I.s and
                        > > for not expanding the "outer"
                        > > initiations and their numbers?
                        > >
                        > > It's actually a simple/obvious
                        > > explanation. Klemp is selfish.
                        > >
                        > > Klemp's lack of empathy,
                        > > compassion, forgiveness and
                        > > real, true love for his fellow
                        > > eckists, and the trickle-down
                        > > effect within the EK Hierarchy,
                        > > is why Eckankar and ECKists
                        > > are broken and lost. Their
                        > > delusional faith and fellowship
                        > > (it's a numbers game) is
                        > > what they cling to as do
                        > > all religionists. Yet, as with
                        > > all religionists, their faith
                        > > has the only chosen ones
                        > > who have been gifted with
                        > > special insight into God
                        > > (or whatever name they use).
                        > > EK is simply more of the same
                        > > but tweaked to fit a special
                        > > New Age/Metaphysical mindset.
                        > > It's the Easy Way until those,
                        > > now, with less than 30 plus
                        > > years want a 6th or 7th
                        > > initiation.
                        > >
                        > > Prometheus
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > "Non" eckchains wrote:
                        > > I agree with a lot of what you have said here. I don't quite get the Soulmate
                        > > though. I have been met with mostly great difficulty in actualizing this, even
                        > > though it sounds quite nice. I am open to experiencing this, yet I am also
                        > > naturally intuitive and also he who questions a lot and enjoys experimenting and
                        > > investigating. Most people I meet are into holding tight to their beliefs and
                        > > don't like being around someone like me, if I am just being myself. For some
                        > > reason I ruffle feathers so maybe that means I need to stay away from certain
                        > > Birds. :) I don't know the answer.
                        > >
                        > > As far as the sound current. My experience has been dreams of beautiful music
                        > > sometimes, but also just feeling. Not everyone is musical. The sound current and
                        > > light may actually be too limiting. It is based on our two most used human
                        > > senses, seeing and hearing. There is so much more richness involved. We are
                        > > lacking in our sense of smell and there are other senses that other animals know
                        > > and experience that make us look like idiots sometimes. Humans are very arrogant
                        > > because of our superior ability to manipulate our environment, something that if
                        > > unchecked can and does cause great havoc, destruction and killing just to kill.
                        > >
                        > > Feeling and intuition is very under rated. Feelings allow us to have compassion
                        > > and empathy. That is a vibration I wish there was more of. People don't like it,
                        > > because it also means that we may have to relate to the pain of another, or to
                        > > our own pain. People are too hardened IMHO. At the same time, bless the ones who
                        > > act out of compassion to advocate and fight those who are indifferent to at
                        > > least living with some level of a little empathy. I think they have compassion
                        > > in them, it is just repressed, and imo is always pushing to express. I dare say,
                        > > that even klemp and his HI's are so frownish and fakish, because that is how you
                        > > repress feelings and natural compassion. It is harder for humans, because we are
                        > > more self-aware. Native American life often at least had sacred rituals for
                        > > killing to eat. We are lost..... Light and sound meditations may just be a
                        > > distraction and limiting us from our Whole Being. We cannot cut off a part of
                        > > ourselves and Be our Whole Being, imo.
                        > >
                        > > Non ; )
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > <prometheus wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Hello Tyson, Russ, and All,
                        > > > I believe that religious myth
                        > > > was created to explain away
                        > > > the phenomenal, and that
                        > > > religion was created in order
                        > > > to control the masses and,
                        > > > thus, use this undertaking
                        > > > for money, power, greed,
                        > > > status and other self-benefits
                        > > > for the hierarchies.
                        > > >
                        > > > The Blue Light/Blue Star?
                        > > > The human mind/brain
                        > > > functions similarly and
                        > > > when attention is placed
                        > > > upon subjects this produces
                        > > > chemical and electrical
                        > > > reactions. There are even
                        > > > mixed but similar responses
                        > > > to unconscious stimuli.
                        > > > But many people realize
                        > > > all of this but tend to
                        > > > forget it when seeking
                        > > > "spiritual" answers.
                        > > >
                        > > > People should not have
                        > > > faith in the words of
                        > > > others. People should
                        > > > No Longer give others
                        > > > 'the benefit of the doubt.'
                        > > >
                        > > > Yes, we can look at what
                        > > > principles they are sharing
                        > > > in order to help us to
                        > > > achieve a greater realization
                        > > > but we should not limit
                        > > > ourselves from going
                        > > > beyond the realizations
                        > > > and achievements in
                        > > > higher consciousness
                        > > > of those we view as
                        > > > ideals/icons.
                        > > >
                        > > > Thus, the concept of
                        > > > "Master" needs to be
                        > > > revised and eliminated.
                        > > >
                        > > > When the lessons have
                        > > > been taught, via real
                        > > > world examples of
                        > > > living, it then becomes
                        > > > our responsibility
                        > > > to demonstrate what
                        > > > we have learned as
                        > > > it pertains to our
                        > > > own unique individual
                        > > > personality and
                        > > > circumstances. We
                        > > > move-on and into
                        > > > our own unrestricted
                        > > > conscious awareness.
                        > > >
                        > > > IMHO- Jesus, and not
                        > > > always his apostles,
                        > > > taught some really
                        > > > advanced concepts.
                        > > > Too advanced for
                        > > > most of us today!
                        > > >
                        > > > I'll never forget this
                        > > > one Fung Fu episode
                        > > > where Cain ran into
                        > > > some religious fanatics
                        > > > who would not defend
                        > > > themselves and would
                        > > > turn the other cheek.
                        > > > Cain showed them that
                        > > > there was a third response.
                        > > > Instead of becoming
                        > > > a victim of violence,
                        > > > or responding with
                        > > > violence Cain stopped/
                        > > > blocked the violence
                        > > > i.e. punch or object
                        > > > and redirected its
                        > > > intended path.
                        > > >
                        > > > Anyway, I've heard
                        > > > sounds when first
                        > > > starting to mediate
                        > > > via TM. Everyone
                        > > > heard these tones.
                        > > > Generally the mind
                        > > > blocks out these
                        > > > background noises
                        > > > until it quiets down
                        > > > and empties itself.
                        > > > Actually, one can
                        > > > follow these sounds
                        > > > without placing
                        > > > too much attention
                        > > > on them. That's the
                        > > > trick. One doesn't
                        > > > place attention or
                        > > > attachment on any
                        > > > thought, imaginary
                        > > > vision or sound no
                        > > > matter how pleasant.
                        > > >
                        > > > Eventually, this will
                        > > > produce other by-
                        > > > products of awareness
                        > > > such as contentment.
                        > > >
                        > > > I have to say that one
                        > > > must discover their
                        > > > own reality. Don't take
                        > > > my word for anything.
                        > > > Divine Awareness is
                        > > > an individual experience
                        > > > and not a group path.
                        > > > I called it "Divine Awareness"
                        > > > in oder to give this
                        > > > private and personal
                        > > > Discovery by Soul a
                        > > > special designation.
                        > > > By referring to the
                        > > > uniqueness of the
                        > > > individual experience
                        > > > as 'Soul' does likewise.
                        > > >
                        > > > I will have to say that
                        > > > I've had help in validating
                        > > > that there is a Reality
                        > > > beyond the scientific
                        > > > explanations and that
                        > > > of religious dogma.
                        > > >
                        > > > I can only say that
                        > > > the Soulmate concept
                        > > > (IMO) is real in that
                        > > > it helps these Souls
                        > > > to form a special
                        > > > bond in order to merge
                        > > > and harmonize their
                        > > > vibrations and to better
                        > > > 'tune-in' to glimpses
                        > > > of, perhaps, our true
                        > > > origins and potential
                        > > > but also of this Here
                        > > > and Now.
                        > > >
                        > > > Prometheus
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > "Tyson" wrote:
                        > > > The sound current, bani,
                        > > > shabd or nam is real.
                        > > >
                        > > > There is no religion that
                        > > > can claim it as there own.
                        > > >
                        > > > What is fiction is the
                        > > > dependance on a master
                        > > > that is created by religions
                        > > > of the light and sound.
                        > > >
                        > > > Only one initiation is
                        > > > important.
                        > > >
                        > > > Yet faith in a past master
                        > > > such as Christ, Krishna
                        > > > or Guru Nanak is just as
                        > > > valid.
                        > > >
                        > > > There is no mahanta.
                        > > >
                        > > > The blue star is no
                        > > > other than a manifestation
                        > > > created by a meeting
                        > > > between the holy spirit
                        > > > and ones higher self
                        > > > (soul).
                        > > >
                        > > > For Harold to claim to
                        > > > be the blue star is a
                        > > > way to snare the gullible.
                        > > > He is no more the blue
                        > > > star than the second
                        > > > coming of christ.
                        > > >
                        > > > I had heard the rushing
                        > > > wind as a member of
                        > > > eckankar so I wrongly
                        > > > believed that this path
                        > > > must be true.
                        > > >
                        > > > It was meditation on
                        > > > the third eye that brought
                        > > > the rushing wind, not
                        > > > Klemp.
                        > > >
                        > > > Eckankar was taken from
                        > > > the Sihk word Ek Ong Kar.
                        > > > Ek Ong Kar means one
                        > > > divine energy permeates
                        > > > all things.
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > Russ wrote:
                        > > > > I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is ex eckist, interviewing
                        > > > David Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.
                        > > >
                        > > > > One of the interviewees, a man made a statement, paraphrasing here, that in
                        > > > his mind it doesn't matter where the writings of eckankar come from because he
                        > > > is finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it's more important to have
                        > > a
                        > > > connection with the sound current.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I used to have that exact point of view. What changed for me?
                        > > > >
                        > > > > One thing I used to feel good about when talking about eck was this idea
                        > > that
                        > > > it has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was synonymous with the
                        > > sound
                        > > > current.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored for a decade, after
                        > > > becoming a 5th. I could no longer ignore this dissonance, caused by the
                        > > > plaigarism and ultimately this had led to me dropping out of eckankar.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I have a question concerning the sound current. I experience this sound,
                        > > > sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous to my study of eck.
                        > > Maybe
                        > > > it isn't important, where you read about it, if you take it as a principle and
                        > > > work with it.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Do you folks think the sound current is bogus? Delusions?
                        > > > >
                        > > > > This is an interesting point because I am interested in truth...
                        > > > >
                        > > > > BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion, good work. But this by
                        > > > itself doesn't go to the underlying issues concerning the question, "What is
                        > > the
                        > > > Truth regarding the idea of the sound current as a way of connection with the
                        > > > Divine??"
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Thanks,
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Russ
                        > >
                        >
                      • prometheus_973
                        Hello Etznab and All, Yes, it does seem that Twitchell re-invented the Soulmate theory with an Eck twist that is somewhat ambiguous. Eckankar disapproves the
                        Message 11 of 22 , Dec 8, 2012
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                          Hello Etznab and All,
                          Yes, it does seem that
                          Twitchell re-invented
                          the Soulmate theory
                          with an Eck twist that
                          is somewhat ambiguous.

                          Eckankar disapproves
                          the Soulmate theory
                          (per se) and favors the
                          Time-Twin theory.

                          However, I doubt that
                          many EKists can explain
                          just how the Time-Twin
                          Theory works or how
                          it pertains to them. Plus,
                          it is still limiting by using
                          one pairing of Masculine
                          and Feminine parts. I
                          misspoke by referring
                          to it as Twin-Soul.


                          BTW-Why did Twitchell,
                          the All Knowing Mahanta,
                          refer to this Time-Twin
                          explanation as a "theory?"
                          Since when is EK Dogma
                          a theory for an ECKist
                          and not a fact and a true
                          belief?


                          Below is the ECK
                          definition.

                          PT's Time-Twin Theory
                          states that when Soul
                          discovers that It is the
                          ECK and, thus, becomes
                          the ECK that It has attained
                          the symbol of Its Soulmate
                          by blending the feminine
                          and masculine forces within
                          the individual into one,
                          and this oneness is Itself.

                          However, this EKplanation
                          makes one wonder why
                          the LEM has to be a male
                          since the individual Soul
                          becomes the ECK when It
                          "blends" both "masculine
                          and feminine forces into
                          one... Itself."

                          Actually, Twitchell's Time-
                          Twin Theory resembles the
                          Jewish Soulmate Theory
                          of finding your other half
                          (masculine or feminine)
                          in order for Soul to become
                          whole with Itself.

                          Prometheus

                          etznab wrote:
                          I don't believe Paul Twitchell reinvented the Soul Mates thing. It looks to me
                          more like he plagiarized, or paraphrased about it (adding his own spin as well,
                          under the guise of Eck Masters, etc.). But hey, Eckankar is not a cult and it's
                          against spiritual law to push one's beliefs on another :) If you don't believe
                          me just read the FAQ section on Eckankar's web site. Look for the question: Is
                          Eckankar a cult?

                          ***

                          There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book, Dialogues With The Master (1970),
                          called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.

                          Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness (first published in 1913?) - and
                          compare the text with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to Paul Twitchell in
                          Dialogues With The Master.

                          http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up

                          http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNo\
                          \
                          mad.pdf

                          ***

                          Remember that controversial subject of Soul Mates which appeared in Paul
                          Twitchell's earlier books (I thought it was TTF, but here is something in
                          DWTM)?

                          Ali Nomad:

                          Each and every SOUL, therefore, has its spiritual counterpart--its "other half,"
                          with which it unites on the spiritual plane, when the time comes for attainment
                          of immortality.

                          Lord Sohang:

                          "Each and every Soul, therefore, in the lower worlds has its spiritual
                          counterpart - its other half with which it unites on the spiritual plane, when
                          the time comes for the attainment of the highest goal of the world of Brahm and
                          that counterpart is the ECK Spirit." (DWTM p. 176)

                          https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!searchin/alt.religion.eckanka\
                          \
                          r/soul$20mates|sort:date/alt.religion.eckankar/9_e16rhw3gA/3VmvQQ811QsJ

                          Now of course it depends on who Paul Twitchell is plagiarizing, as the
                          information can vary. It can even appear contradictory. Example:

                          [...] But unless the union has already been made in heaven through pure love,
                          the physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness, for like all true
                          sacraments it must be entered into and registered upon all planes. (p. 220)
                          The Law of Divine Love will bring to each Soul its true marriage, a union in
                          perfect purity on all planes. This according to the one life-theory is of course
                          impossible for all; but since reincarnation is a fact, the Soul, through
                          repeated experiences, learns to follow its Divine Guidance, hence will
                          ultimately find its true mate. But they can be spiritually as well as physically
                          married to their mates only when the old accounts of both have been balanced and
                          the old complications set up through the mistakes of the past have been worked
                          out. [... .]. (p. 221)

                          The Voice Of Isis And Realms Of The Living Dead, by Harriett Augusta Curtiss

                          http://archive.org/stream/TheVoiceOfIsis2ndEdition/CurtissFhAndHaTheVoiceOfIsis2\
                          \
                          ndEdition_djvu.txt

                          Rebazar Tarzs in DWTM:

                          "Now for the part of union between man and woman. Unless this union has been
                          made on the higher planes through pure thought, the physical union cannot bring
                          about peace and happiness, for like all true sacraments it must be entered into
                          and registered upon all planes.

                          "The law of divine love will bring to each Soul Its true marriage and union
                          in perfect purity on all planes. This true marriage is that of Soul with the ECK
                          - the polarization of each Soul - not two Souls or man and woman coming
                          together. And, as it is, each Soul will be guided through repeated experience by
                          divine guidance until It finds this true love, the love of ECK through the
                          Mahanta. You can be spiritually as well as physically married to a mate only
                          when the old accounts of both have been balanced, and old complications set up
                          through mistakes of the past have been worked out. (p. 115)

                          (My guess is that someone revised the original DWTM manuscript since the ECK
                          (all caps) trademark didn't come about until 1968 and the Mahanta term didn't
                          come into vogue until 1969; whereas the DWTM manuscript was reportedly written
                          in 1956!)

                          Now I remember (I think it was in The Tiger's Fang, Or was it The Eck-Vidya?)
                          some Soul Mates controversy in Eckankar history where I believe Harold Klemp and
                          Eckankar had to "correct" what Paul Twitchell earlier wrote. It was no longer
                          about two people coming together, but a person finding (in so many words) their
                          own "higher self".

                          I haven't finished checking all the references to Soul Mates in all of Paul's
                          books, so don't just go on what I quoted from DWTM.

                          ***

                          Btw, my Yahoo has been bouncing since Nov. 28 so I've been out of the loop since
                          then and hadn't received any posts via email. Just now are catching up.


                          <prometheus wrote:
                          >
                          > Hello Non eckchains and All,
                          > The Soulmate theory
                          > phenomena is an interesting
                          > spiritual perspective
                          > and is, actually, unlimited
                          > by conventional New Age
                          > thought. Eckankar (PT)
                          > reinvented it with a
                          > Twin-Soul perspective.
                          > This is interesting, but
                          > IMO it shouldn't be limited
                          > to or by PT's "Twin" Soul
                          > view and a single pairing
                          > only.
                          >
                          > Thus, the connection that
                          > some/many Souls have with
                          > one another (IMO) s/b referred
                          > to in the plural. Thus, Soulmates
                          > is more than one pairing.
                          > Unfortunately, for Eckists,
                          > Klemp has them locked into
                          > a "Twin" concept when there
                          > are Triplets and many more!
                          > This phenomena can be
                          > a special connection/attraction
                          > with lifelong friends, as well,
                          > and not always be with sexual
                          > partners.
                          >
                          > As far as Klemp's fraud
                          > and his "frownish and fakish"
                          > H.I.'s, well, that's to be
                          > expected when they emulate
                          > HK's own behaviour via clues
                          > with the way the EK hierarchy
                          > is run or the way in which
                          > he speaks/refers to Joan and/
                          > or tells his stories.
                          >
                          > With Klemp there's a lack
                          > of forgiveness, compassion,
                          > and empathy. These are
                          > missing from Klemp's own
                          > perspectives in his own life
                          > stories.
                          >
                          > It's easy for him to judge
                          > others and point out flaws
                          > or to add "insight" and to
                          > do EK tweaks on the letters
                          > sent to him. And, that's
                          > what Klemp does when
                          > he "writes" in his hermit
                          > batty cave.
                          >
                          > Thus, many of HK's RESAs
                          > emulate his lack of empathy,
                          > compassion, and forgiveness.
                          > They talk a lot about "love"
                          > but when it comes to the
                          > business/spiritual side of
                          > Eckankar and the "Guidelines,"
                          > as set forth by HK via the
                          > ESC, there is not much room
                          > leftover for the byproducts
                          > of love.
                          >
                          > Look at the way the Higher
                          > initiations are handed out.
                          > There are always strings
                          > attached and it has more
                          > to do with "Outer" posturing
                          > and faking it with physical
                          > requirements. What is said
                          > or isn't said to the RESA
                          > or done as a volunteer,
                          > than with anything else
                          > or with one's visible goodness,
                          > has more importance in
                          > deciding who gets a pink
                          > slip. It's not love for God.
                          > Long-time Eckists who
                          > are loyal and loving and
                          > are very nice people are
                          > excluded from becoming
                          > H.I.s because they haven't
                          > jumped through enough
                          > physical hoops of training,
                          > retraining, volunteering, etc.
                          >
                          > Or, maybe they didn't seem
                          > like a 'take charge" leader
                          > or have a college education
                          > and/or were high profile
                          > professionals. It's amazing
                          > how petty RESAs can be,
                          > and these people are the
                          > "righthand" of Klemp.
                          >
                          > In truth, many people who
                          > left Eckankar did so out of
                          > frustration caused via neglect
                          > and unloving behavior towards
                          > them. Once you've become
                          > a member their main goal
                          > has been achieved. From
                          > there they dangle the carrot
                          > for the higher initiations
                          > and, now, make it very
                          > difficult to achieve the 7th.
                          > Eckists need to become
                          > ESAs to become RESAs
                          > and unless you're already
                          > an ESA it's, now, much
                          > more difficult to achieve.
                          > And, for a 6th ESA to get
                          > the 7th they, usually, need
                          > to become a RESA.
                          >
                          > Thus, Klemp slowed-down
                          > Initiations in 1985 due to
                          > Darwin making 500 new
                          > 5ths before leaving office.
                          > So, more that 25 years later
                          > what is Klemp's excuse for
                          > not making more H.I.s and
                          > for not expanding the "outer"
                          > initiations and their numbers?
                          >
                          > It's actually a simple/obvious
                          > explanation. Klemp is selfish.
                          >
                          > Klemp's lack of empathy,
                          > compassion, forgiveness and
                          > real, true love for his fellow
                          > eckists, and the trickle-down
                          > effect within the EK Hierarchy,
                          > is why Eckankar and ECKists
                          > are broken and lost. Their
                          > delusional faith and fellowship
                          > (it's a numbers game) is
                          > what they cling to as do
                          > all religionists. Yet, as with
                          > all religionists, their faith
                          > has the only chosen ones
                          > who have been gifted with
                          > special insight into God
                          > (or whatever name they use).
                          > EK is simply more of the same
                          > but tweaked to fit a special
                          > New Age/Metaphysical mindset.
                          > It's the Easy Way until those,
                          > now, with less than 30 plus
                          > years want a 6th or 7th
                          > initiation.
                          >
                          > Prometheus
                          >
                          >
                          > "Non" eckchains wrote:
                          > I agree with a lot of what you have said here. I don't quite get the Soulmate
                          > though. I have been met with mostly great difficulty in actualizing this, even
                          > though it sounds quite nice. I am open to experiencing this, yet I am also
                          > naturally intuitive and also he who questions a lot and enjoys experimenting
                          and
                          > investigating. Most people I meet are into holding tight to their beliefs and
                          > don't like being around someone like me, if I am just being myself. For some
                          > reason I ruffle feathers so maybe that means I need to stay away from certain
                          > Birds. :) I don't know the answer.
                          >
                          > As far as the sound current. My experience has been dreams of beautiful music
                          > sometimes, but also just feeling. Not everyone is musical. The sound current
                          and
                          > light may actually be too limiting. It is based on our two most used human
                          > senses, seeing and hearing. There is so much more richness involved. We are
                          > lacking in our sense of smell and there are other senses that other animals
                          know
                          > and experience that make us look like idiots sometimes. Humans are very
                          arrogant
                          > because of our superior ability to manipulate our environment, something that
                          if
                          > unchecked can and does cause great havoc, destruction and killing just to
                          kill.
                          >
                          > Feeling and intuition is very under rated. Feelings allow us to have
                          compassion
                          > and empathy. That is a vibration I wish there was more of. People don't like
                          it,
                          > because it also means that we may have to relate to the pain of another, or to
                          > our own pain. People are too hardened IMHO. At the same time, bless the ones
                          who
                          > act out of compassion to advocate and fight those who are indifferent to at
                          > least living with some level of a little empathy. I think they have compassion
                          > in them, it is just repressed, and imo is always pushing to express. I dare
                          say,
                          > that even klemp and his HI's are so frownish and fakish, because that is how
                          you
                          > repress feelings and natural compassion. It is harder for humans, because we
                          are
                          > more self-aware. Native American life often at least had sacred rituals for
                          > killing to eat. We are lost..... Light and sound meditations may just be a
                          > distraction and limiting us from our Whole Being. We cannot cut off a part of
                          > ourselves and Be our Whole Being, imo.
                          >
                          > Non ; )
                          >
                          >
                          > <prometheus wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Hello Tyson, Russ, and All,
                          > > I believe that religious myth
                          > > was created to explain away
                          > > the phenomenal, and that
                          > > religion was created in order
                          > > to control the masses and,
                          > > thus, use this undertaking
                          > > for money, power, greed,
                          > > status and other self-benefits
                          > > for the hierarchies.
                          > >
                          > > The Blue Light/Blue Star?
                          > > The human mind/brain
                          > > functions similarly and
                          > > when attention is placed
                          > > upon subjects this produces
                          > > chemical and electrical
                          > > reactions. There are even
                          > > mixed but similar responses
                          > > to unconscious stimuli.
                          > > But many people realize
                          > > all of this but tend to
                          > > forget it when seeking
                          > > "spiritual" answers.
                          > >
                          > > People should not have
                          > > faith in the words of
                          > > others. People should
                          > > No Longer give others
                          > > 'the benefit of the doubt.'
                          > >
                          > > Yes, we can look at what
                          > > principles they are sharing
                          > > in order to help us to
                          > > achieve a greater realization
                          > > but we should not limit
                          > > ourselves from going
                          > > beyond the realizations
                          > > and achievements in
                          > > higher consciousness
                          > > of those we view as
                          > > ideals/icons.
                          > >
                          > > Thus, the concept of
                          > > "Master" needs to be
                          > > revised and eliminated.
                          > >
                          > > When the lessons have
                          > > been taught, via real
                          > > world examples of
                          > > living, it then becomes
                          > > our responsibility
                          > > to demonstrate what
                          > > we have learned as
                          > > it pertains to our
                          > > own unique individual
                          > > personality and
                          > > circumstances. We
                          > > move-on and into
                          > > our own unrestricted
                          > > conscious awareness.
                          > >
                          > > IMHO- Jesus, and not
                          > > always his apostles,
                          > > taught some really
                          > > advanced concepts.
                          > > Too advanced for
                          > > most of us today!
                          > >
                          > > I'll never forget this
                          > > one Fung Fu episode
                          > > where Cain ran into
                          > > some religious fanatics
                          > > who would not defend
                          > > themselves and would
                          > > turn the other cheek.
                          > > Cain showed them that
                          > > there was a third response.
                          > > Instead of becoming
                          > > a victim of violence,
                          > > or responding with
                          > > violence Cain stopped/
                          > > blocked the violence
                          > > i.e. punch or object
                          > > and redirected its
                          > > intended path.
                          > >
                          > > Anyway, I've heard
                          > > sounds when first
                          > > starting to mediate
                          > > via TM. Everyone
                          > > heard these tones.
                          > > Generally the mind
                          > > blocks out these
                          > > background noises
                          > > until it quiets down
                          > > and empties itself.
                          > > Actually, one can
                          > > follow these sounds
                          > > without placing
                          > > too much attention
                          > > on them. That's the
                          > > trick. One doesn't
                          > > place attention or
                          > > attachment on any
                          > > thought, imaginary
                          > > vision or sound no
                          > > matter how pleasant.
                          > >
                          > > Eventually, this will
                          > > produce other by-
                          > > products of awareness
                          > > such as contentment.
                          > >
                          > > I have to say that one
                          > > must discover their
                          > > own reality. Don't take
                          > > my word for anything.
                          > > Divine Awareness is
                          > > an individual experience
                          > > and not a group path.
                          > > I called it "Divine Awareness"
                          > > in oder to give this
                          > > private and personal
                          > > Discovery by Soul a
                          > > special designation.
                          > > By referring to the
                          > > uniqueness of the
                          > > individual experience
                          > > as 'Soul' does likewise.
                          > >
                          > > I will have to say that
                          > > I've had help in validating
                          > > that there is a Reality
                          > > beyond the scientific
                          > > explanations and that
                          > > of religious dogma.
                          > >
                          > > I can only say that
                          > > the Soulmate concept
                          > > (IMO) is real in that
                          > > it helps these Souls
                          > > to form a special
                          > > bond in order to merge
                          > > and harmonize their
                          > > vibrations and to better
                          > > 'tune-in' to glimpses
                          > > of, perhaps, our true
                          > > origins and potential
                          > > but also of this Here
                          > > and Now.
                          > >
                          > > Prometheus
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > "Tyson" wrote:
                          > > The sound current, bani,
                          > > shabd or nam is real.
                          > >
                          > > There is no religion that
                          > > can claim it as there own.
                          > >
                          > > What is fiction is the
                          > > dependance on a master
                          > > that is created by religions
                          > > of the light and sound.
                          > >
                          > > Only one initiation is
                          > > important.
                          > >
                          > > Yet faith in a past master
                          > > such as Christ, Krishna
                          > > or Guru Nanak is just as
                          > > valid.
                          > >
                          > > There is no mahanta.
                          > >
                          > > The blue star is no
                          > > other than a manifestation
                          > > created by a meeting
                          > > between the holy spirit
                          > > and ones higher self
                          > > (soul).
                          > >
                          > > For Harold to claim to
                          > > be the blue star is a
                          > > way to snare the gullible.
                          > > He is no more the blue
                          > > star than the second
                          > > coming of christ.
                          > >
                          > > I had heard the rushing
                          > > wind as a member of
                          > > eckankar so I wrongly
                          > > believed that this path
                          > > must be true.
                          > >
                          > > It was meditation on
                          > > the third eye that brought
                          > > the rushing wind, not
                          > > Klemp.
                          > >
                          > > Eckankar was taken from
                          > > the Sihk word Ek Ong Kar.
                          > > Ek Ong Kar means one
                          > > divine energy permeates
                          > > all things.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Russ wrote:
                          > > > I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is ex eckist, interviewing
                          > > David Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.
                          > >
                          > > > One of the interviewees, a man made a statement, paraphrasing here, that
                          in
                          > > his mind it doesn't matter where the writings of eckankar come from because
                          he
                          > > is finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it's more important to
                          have
                          > a
                          > > connection with the sound current.
                          > > >
                          > > > I used to have that exact point of view. What changed for me?
                          > > >
                          > > > One thing I used to feel good about when talking about eck was this idea
                          > that
                          > > it has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was synonymous with the
                          > sound
                          > > current.
                          > > >
                          > > > It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored for a decade, after
                          > > becoming a 5th. I could no longer ignore this dissonance, caused by the
                          > > plaigarism and ultimately this had led to me dropping out of eckankar.
                          > > >
                          > > > I have a question concerning the sound current. I experience this sound,
                          > > sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous to my study of eck.
                          > Maybe
                          > > it isn't important, where you read about it, if you take it as a principle
                          and
                          > > work with it.
                          > > >
                          > > > Do you folks think the sound current is bogus? Delusions?
                          > > >
                          > > > This is an interesting point because I am interested in truth...
                          > > >
                          > > > BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion, good work. But this by
                          > > itself doesn't go to the underlying issues concerning the question, "What is
                          > the
                          > > Truth regarding the idea of the sound current as a way of connection with
                          the
                          > > Divine??"
                          > > >
                          > > > Thanks,
                          > > >
                          > > > Russ
                        • prometheus_973
                          Hello Etznab, I was reading some of this book, which was written in 1913 or 15, and just about every page sounds a lot like Twitchell s various writings.
                          Message 12 of 22 , Dec 8, 2012
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                            Hello Etznab,
                            I was reading some
                            of this book, which
                            was written in 1913
                            or 15, and just about
                            every page sounds
                            a lot like Twitchell's
                            various writings.

                            Twitchell must have
                            plagiarized the hell
                            out of this in order
                            to create his EK dogma
                            and to make himself
                            seem spiritually advanced,
                            knowledgable, and
                            wise. And, since PT
                            was a narcissist he
                            probably used this
                            info to impress others,
                            including Gail, when,
                            in truth, he was a
                            mere wannabe, liar,
                            and plagiarist.

                            Prometheus


                            Etznab wrote:

                            There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book,
                            Dialogues With The Master (1970),
                            called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.

                            Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness
                            (first published in 1913?) - and compare the text
                            with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to Paul
                            Twitchell in Dialogues With The Master.

                            http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up
                            http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNo\
                            \\\mad.pdf
                          • Non
                            On the Truth vs. Fiction part and books from the 1910 era, I found an interesting article about Louise Hay and how her popularity really increased due to her
                            Message 13 of 22 , Dec 8, 2012
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                              On the Truth vs. Fiction part and books from the 1910 era, I found an interesting article about Louise Hay and how her popularity really increased due to her involvement with the Aids epidemic, especially in California. On the one hand she offered the hope of complete healing, while at the same time giving a disclaimer by saying that the healing may only be spiritual and not necessarily physical. (sounds kind of like what klemp and the like always do!) It is asserted that most of the dogma about the absolute power of positive thought, or whatever, was most popular when science or medicine didn't have clear evidence for a good cure to illness. Those with Aids were being shunned, especially by organized religions. I found this article doing some searches on New Age and Angels.

                              http://www.icsahome.com/logon/elibdocview.asp?Subject=The+Queen+of+the+New+Age+

                              I just thought it was interesting that what is really going on with New Age Religion is 'just a little bit of history repeating'.
                              :D
                              Then again I have come to the conclusion that all religions have their myths and angles to pray to for this or that. You might say that eck masters are just like angels or saints or what have you. It's all kind of the same stuff, just different depending on the culture. Name the religion and there will be variations and even changes as a result of cultural or tribal tendencies. Imagine what ekankar is really like in Africa or India or in the U.S. Has Klemp ever made a trip to Africa?

                              Non ; )

                              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Hello Etznab,
                              > I was reading some
                              > of this book, which
                              > was written in 1913
                              > or 15, and just about
                              > every page sounds
                              > a lot like Twitchell's
                              > various writings.
                              >
                              > Twitchell must have
                              > plagiarized the hell
                              > out of this in order
                              > to create his EK dogma
                              > and to make himself
                              > seem spiritually advanced,
                              > knowledgable, and
                              > wise. And, since PT
                              > was a narcissist he
                              > probably used this
                              > info to impress others,
                              > including Gail, when,
                              > in truth, he was a
                              > mere wannabe, liar,
                              > and plagiarist.
                              >
                              > Prometheus
                              >
                              >
                              > Etznab wrote:
                              >
                              > There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book,
                              > Dialogues With The Master (1970),
                              > called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.
                              >
                              > Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness
                              > (first published in 1913?) - and compare the text
                              > with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to Paul
                              > Twitchell in Dialogues With The Master.
                              >
                              > http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up
                              > http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNo\
                              > \\\mad.pdf
                              >
                            • Russ Rodnick
                              sure does have the same characteristics.  ________________________________ From: prometheus_973 To:
                              Message 14 of 22 , Dec 9, 2012
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                                sure does have the same characteristics. 


                                From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
                                To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Saturday, December 8, 2012 10:58 PM
                                Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the Sound Current?

                                 
                                Hello Etznab,
                                I was reading some
                                of this book, which
                                was written in 1913
                                or 15, and just about
                                every page sounds
                                a lot like Twitchell's
                                various writings.

                                Twitchell must have
                                plagiarized the hell
                                out of this in order
                                to create his EK dogma
                                and to make himself
                                seem spiritually advanced,
                                knowledgable, and
                                wise. And, since PT
                                was a narcissist he
                                probably used this
                                info to impress others,
                                including Gail, when,
                                in truth, he was a
                                mere wannabe, liar,
                                and plagiarist.

                                Prometheus

                                Etznab wrote:

                                There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book,
                                Dialogues With The Master (1970),
                                called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.

                                Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness
                                (first published in 1913?) - and compare the text
                                with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to Paul
                                Twitchell in Dialogues With The Master.

                                http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up
                                http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNo\
                                \\\mad.pdf



                              • Russ Rodnick
                                I was told by a HI who was a featured African seminar speaker, that the Africans seriously regard the chosen one as the mahanta and give them every
                                Message 15 of 22 , Dec 9, 2012
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                                  I was told by a HI who was a featured African seminar speaker, that the Africans seriously regard the chosen one as the mahanta and give them every consideration while there; and that thousands of chelas and interested parties show up. 

                                  I have thought the eck provided a powerful juju against the black magicians of africa, of which I am told there are many. I know of a chief who possesses knowledge of ways to kill and effect people. He is considered a 'man of power' by those he looks after, here in the states. 

                                  This teaching's roots are based on actual metaphysical principles, and I'm afraid that it has developed 'legs' of its own. Add to this the power of belief, and you have a plethora of metaphysical phenomena; which go to the lore and mythology of the teaching/religion. 

                                  Like it or not, it will most likely live on. I daresay, some good may come from it. Some sincere people find solace in organized religion, even though it is mostly based on lies. 

                                  I still want to know the truth...

                                  Russ


                                  From: Non <eckchains@...>
                                  To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Sunday, December 9, 2012 1:44 AM
                                  Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the Sound Current?

                                   
                                  On the Truth vs. Fiction part and books from the 1910 era, I found an interesting article about Louise Hay and how her popularity really increased due to her involvement with the Aids epidemic, especially in California. On the one hand she offered the hope of complete healing, while at the same time giving a disclaimer by saying that the healing may only be spiritual and not necessarily physical. (sounds kind of like what klemp and the like always do!) It is asserted that most of the dogma about the absolute power of positive thought, or whatever, was most popular when science or medicine didn't have clear evidence for a good cure to illness. Those with Aids were being shunned, especially by organized religions. I found this article doing some searches on New Age and Angels.

                                  http://www.icsahome.com/logon/elibdocview.asp?Subject=The+Queen+of+the+New+Age+

                                  I just thought it was interesting that what is really going on with New Age Religion is 'just a little bit of history repeating'.
                                  :D
                                  Then again I have come to the conclusion that all religions have their myths and angles to pray to for this or that. You might say that eck masters are just like angels or saints or what have you. It's all kind of the same stuff, just different depending on the culture. Name the religion and there will be variations and even changes as a result of cultural or tribal tendencies. Imagine what ekankar is really like in Africa or India or in the U.S. Has Klemp ever made a trip to Africa?

                                  Non ; )

                                  --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Hello Etznab,
                                  > I was reading some
                                  > of this book, which
                                  > was written in 1913
                                  > or 15, and just about
                                  > every page sounds
                                  > a lot like Twitchell's
                                  > various writings.
                                  >
                                  > Twitchell must have
                                  > plagiarized the hell
                                  > out of this in order
                                  > to create his EK dogma
                                  > and to make himself
                                  > seem spiritually advanced,
                                  > knowledgable, and
                                  > wise. And, since PT
                                  > was a narcissist he
                                  > probably used this
                                  > info to impress others,
                                  > including Gail, when,
                                  > in truth, he was a
                                  > mere wannabe, liar,
                                  > and plagiarist.
                                  >
                                  > Prometheus
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Etznab wrote:
                                  >
                                  > There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book,
                                  > Dialogues With The Master (1970),
                                  > called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.
                                  >
                                  > Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness
                                  > (first published in 1913?) - and compare the text
                                  > with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to Paul
                                  > Twitchell in Dialogues With The Master.
                                  >
                                  > http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up
                                  > http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNo Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (13)
                                  Recent Activity:
                                  .



                                • etznab@aol.com
                                  These are only sample excerpts, but will show in the two books where to look. *** Lord Sohang: Man is a spiritual being.     The source of this spiritual
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Dec 9, 2012
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                                    These are only sample excerpts, but will show in the two books where to
                                    look.

                                    ***

                                    Lord Sohang:

                                    "Man is a spiritual being.    
                                    "The source of this spiritual Omniscience, you may not, in our
                                    finite intelligence, fully cognize, because full cognition would
                                    preclude the possibility of finite expression.    
                                    "The destiny of man is to dwell in his true home.    
                                    "His true home is that nameless world where dwells the true Lord of
                                    all infinity.    
                                    "The argument of the saviors of the three worlds is that man's
                                    destiny is perfection.    
                                    "Man perfected becomes a god, they say.    
                                    "To become a God in the land of Daswan Dwar is to become immortal.
                                       
                                    "Let me consider what this means, supposing it to be an axiom of
                                    truth.    
                                    "Mortality is subject to change and death. Mortality is the manifest
                                    - the stage upon which man in his life plays many parts.    
                                    "Immortality is what the word implies, Godhood, and recognized in
                                    the mortal 'I am' or, 'Om', the charged word of the Brahman of the
                                    world of Brahm. It stands for the changeless, birthless, deathless,
                                    unamable power that holds the worlds in space, and puts intelligence
                                    into man. [... .]

                                    - Dialogues With The Master, by Paul Twitchell (1970) p. 174

                                    Ali Nomad:

                                    Man is essentially a spiritual being.

                                    The source of this spiritual Omniscience we may not, in our finite
                                    intelligence, fully cognize, because full cognition would preclude the
                                    possibility of finite expression. The destiny of man is perfection. Man
                                    perfected becomes a god.

                                    "Only the gods are immortal," we are told.

                                    Let us consider what this means, supposing it to be an axiom of truth.

                                    Mortality is subject to change and death. Mortality is the
                                    manifest--the stage upon which "man in his life plays many parts."

                                    Immortality, is what the word says it is--godhood re-cognized in the
                                    mortal. "Im" or, "Om"--the more general term--stands for the
                                    Changeless. Birthless. Deathless. Unnamable Power that holds the worlds
                                    in space, and puts intelligence into man. [... .]

                                    http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up/search/omniscience

                                    Lord Sohang:

                                    "Each and every Soul, therefore, in the lower worlds has its spiritual
                                    counterpart - its other half with which it unites on the spiritual
                                    plane, when the time comes for the attainment of the highest goal of
                                    the world of Brahm and that counterpart is the ECK Spirit." (DWTM p.
                                    176)

                                    Ali Nomad:

                                    Each and every SOUL, therefore, has its spiritual counterpart--its
                                    "other half," with which it unites on the spiritual plane, when the
                                    time comes for attainment of immortality.

                                    http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/6/mode/2up/search/counterpart

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: Russ Rodnick <russrodnick@...>
                                    To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
                                    <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Sun, Dec 9, 2012 8:51 am
                                    Subject: Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the
                                    Sound Current?

                                     
                                    sure does have the same characteristics. 


                                    From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
                                    To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Saturday, December 8, 2012 10:58 PM
                                    Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the
                                    Sound Current?


                                      Hello Etznab,
                                    I was reading some
                                    of this book, which
                                    was written in 1913
                                    or 15, and just about
                                    every page sounds
                                    a lot like Twitchell's
                                    various writings.

                                    Twitchell must have
                                    plagiarized the hell
                                    out of this in order
                                    to create his EK dogma
                                    and to make himself
                                    seem spiritually advanced,
                                    knowledgable, and
                                    wise. And, since PT
                                    was a narcissist he
                                    probably used this
                                    info to impress others,
                                    including Gail, when,
                                    in truth, he was a
                                    mere wannabe, liar,
                                    and plagiarist.

                                    Prometheus

                                    Etznab wrote:

                                    There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book,
                                    Dialogues With The Master (1970),
                                    called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.

                                    Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness
                                    (first published in 1913?) - and compare the text
                                    with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to Paul
                                    Twitchell in Dialogues With The Master.

                                    http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up
                                    http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNo\
                                    \\\mad.pdf
                                  • prometheus_973
                                    Hello Non and Russ, I too was once involved with metaphysics via The Unity School of Christianity. And, have explored Christian Science, to a degree, as well
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Dec 9, 2012
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                                      Hello Non and Russ,
                                      I too was once involved
                                      with metaphysics via
                                      The Unity School of
                                      Christianity. And, have
                                      explored Christian
                                      Science, to a degree,
                                      as well as other
                                      metaphysical thought
                                      prior to Eckankar.

                                      The danger is that
                                      New Age thought
                                      (Revised Metaphysics),
                                      and religious cults
                                      as Eckankar et al.,
                                      will encourage people
                                      to follow their Faith
                                      in alternative cultish
                                      cures such as positive
                                      thinking, white magic,
                                      homeopathy and other
                                      non orthodox magical/
                                      mystical/natural forms
                                      of medicine/healing.
                                      Healing Crystals anyone?

                                      But, these alternative
                                      treatments only go
                                      so far and these treatments
                                      can sometimes mask
                                      or hide serious health
                                      problems. People can
                                      confuse symptoms
                                      and side-effects and,
                                      via blind faith, will not
                                      seek timely traditional
                                      treatment proven to
                                      help or cure, until, it
                                      becomes too late!

                                      Those who put their
                                      faith and trust in the
                                      ECK and in Klemp and
                                      who think that HUing
                                      will help to heal them
                                      are deluded.

                                      EKists emulate Klemp
                                      with his focus on
                                      alternative medicine,
                                      but even Klemp, after
                                      falling on Black Ice
                                      and breaking his hip,
                                      needed to have surgery
                                      and metal work and
                                      was given pain meds
                                      and even asked for more!

                                      It's true that traditional
                                      medicine and prescription
                                      drugs are a racket of sorts,
                                      but vitamins and herbal
                                      remedies etc. are a racket
                                      too! And that applies to
                                      many other alternative
                                      forms of (metaphysical)
                                      New Age medicine and
                                      health remedies.

                                      Anyway, here's an excerpt
                                      from the below site. To me
                                      it shows a time-line of how
                                      people came to mistrust
                                      traditional medicine and the
                                      role that non traditional religion
                                      or psychic spirituality had
                                      to play.

                                      However, just because
                                      traditional Western Religion
                                      and Medicine had stumbled
                                      together doesn't mean that
                                      they are connected to each
                                      other. Western Medicine is
                                      based upon Science whereas
                                      Religion isn't! Neither Eastern
                                      or Western Religion, or their
                                      sects, are based upon facts.
                                      It's all about dogma based
                                      upon opposing beliefs and
                                      divine authority via revelation.

                                      And, individually, it's mostly
                                      about subjective faith and
                                      belief which is why non-
                                      traditional alternative forms
                                      of "medicine" are connected
                                      to non-traditional New Age
                                      thought and to metaphysics
                                      in general. Personally, I don't
                                      trust Western Medicine or
                                      doctors completely, but
                                      I don't trust Alternative
                                      Medicine at all... unlike
                                      many ECKists. Still, it's
                                      funny seeing ECKists
                                      accepting their Mahanta
                                      sitting in a wheelchair as
                                      though there's no significance
                                      as to how it happened or
                                      that it happened at all.

                                      http://www.icsahome.com/logon/elibdocview.asp?Subject=The+Queen+of+the+New+Age+

                                      "Hay's Religious Science is an example of what the scholar Catherine L. Albanese calls metaphysical religion, a tradition that began spreading in America in the mid-19th century. "For metaphysics," Albanese writes in "A Republic of Mind and Spirit," "religion turns on an individual's experience of `mind' (instead of `heart,' as in evangelicalism)." Metaphysical religion includes intuition or psychic work, clairvoyance and channeling otherworldly figures, and forms of it have been popularized in, for example, Christian Science, which its founder, Mary Baker Eddy, said would allow people to cure disease with prayer, and books like "The Power of Positive Thinking," by the preacher Norman Vincent Peale. What they all have in common — Christian Science; its cousin Religious Science; Peale's 1952 megaseller; and contemporary best sellers like Rhonda Byrne's "The Secret" — is a conviction that proper thinking, rather than religious faith or fervor, is the key to metaphysical power.

                                      Metaphysical religion has frequently stepped into the breach where Western medicine and Western religion will not or cannot go. When I asked The Rev. Wade Adkisson, the current pastor of Hay's old Church of Religious Science, why as a new church in the 1930s it appealed to people, he said: "At that time the medical world was very basic. A doctor carried with him two things: a bottle of whiskey and a knife. So people were looking for alternative methods of healing." Of course, Adkisson says he believes in those alternative methods of healing. If, as he says, "cancer is merely the outpicturing of one's emotional state," then it can be cured with prayer. But he also admits that for marketing mind cures in the 1930s, it helped that traditional medicine was so impoverished."

                                      Non wrote:
                                      >
                                      > On the Truth vs. Fiction part and books from the 1910 era, I found an interesting article about Louise Hay and how her popularity really increased due to her involvement with the Aids epidemic, especially in California. On the one hand she offered the hope of complete healing, while at the same time giving a disclaimer by saying that the healing may only be spiritual and not necessarily physical. (sounds kind of like what klemp and the like always do!) It is asserted that most of the dogma about the absolute power of positive thought, or whatever, was most popular when science or medicine didn't have clear evidence for a good cure to illness. Those with Aids were being shunned, especially by organized religions. I found this article doing some searches on New Age and Angels.
                                      >
                                      http://www.icsahome.com/logon/elibdocview.asp?Subject=The+Queen+of+the+New+Age+
                                      >
                                      > I just thought it was interesting that what is really going on with New Age Religion is 'just a little bit of history repeating'.
                                      > :D
                                      > Then again I have come to the conclusion that all religions have their myths and angles to pray to for this or that. You might say that eck masters are just like angels or saints or what have you. It's all kind of the same stuff, just different depending on the culture. Name the religion and there will be variations and even changes as a result of cultural or tribal tendencies. Imagine what ekankar is really like in Africa or India or in the U.S. Has Klemp ever made a trip to Africa?
                                      >
                                      > Non ; )
                                      >
                                      > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > Hello Etznab,
                                      > > I was reading some
                                      > > of this book, which
                                      > > was written in 1913
                                      > > or 15, and just about
                                      > > every page sounds
                                      > > a lot like Twitchell's
                                      > > various writings.
                                      > >
                                      > > Twitchell must have
                                      > > plagiarized the hell
                                      > > out of this in order
                                      > > to create his EK dogma
                                      > > and to make himself
                                      > > seem spiritually advanced,
                                      > > knowledgable, and
                                      > > wise. And, since PT
                                      > > was a narcissist he
                                      > > probably used this
                                      > > info to impress others,
                                      > > including Gail, when,
                                      > > in truth, he was a
                                      > > mere wannabe, liar,
                                      > > and plagiarist.
                                      > >
                                      > > Prometheus
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Etznab wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book,
                                      > > Dialogues With The Master (1970),
                                      > > called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.
                                      > >
                                      > > Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness
                                      > > (first published in 1913?) - and compare the text
                                      > > with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to Paul
                                      > > Twitchell in Dialogues With The Master.
                                      > >
                                      > > http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up
                                      > > http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNo\
                                      > > \\\mad.pdf
                                      > >
                                      >
                                    • Janice Pfeiffer
                                      Thank you Non for your reply.  I guess I understand more about what you said.  Good luck, ... From: Non Subject:
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Dec 9, 2012
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                                        Thank you Non for your reply.  I guess I understand more about what you said.  Good luck,

                                        --- On Wed, 12/5/12, Non <eckchains@...> wrote:

                                        From: Non <eckchains@...>
                                        Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the Sound Current?
                                        To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                                        Date: Wednesday, December 5, 2012, 8:13 AM

                                         
                                        Janice, I just have to say, that in person I am very shy and soft spoken, it's just that what I say may be disagreeable as it is often to the point, even if I try to express it gently. A friend of mine once sent me a card that said "It is better to be hated for who you are than loved for who you are not." My writing style is different than how I speak. I actually speak slowly and often have problems with people who talk fast. Actually, my main problem might be that in person I am afraid to simply be who I am. I am very sensitive to most people I meet, to a fault and spend more time listening, when I should probably be more spontaneous and even abrasive.

                                        I think you are only seeing one side of me, as I express myself more directly in some of these blogs, and yes I hold in some anger that is more easily expressed in writing. I still have a problem with wanting to trust the cons too much, and yes getting taken. There seems to be more people than I remember who are callous and mean these days. Maybe hard times do that to people. I'm actually too nice in person, but it is based on both a sense of compassion as well as some guilt about my right to just be who I am. Sometimes it is OK to be just plain rude imo and not nice all the time, especially if someone is trying to push their arrogant, dogmatic spirituality/religion onto you.

                                        Non ;)

                                        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer <jepfeiffer@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > I too agree with Prometheus.  He and I have formed a lot of the same concepts it seems.  As far as the soul mate thing, Non, I don't think it is something you can make.  You are just fortunate when you meet some one that feels like an echo from the past.  You just know that you know them and you know so much about each other with out knowing how you know when you first meet.  My soul mate is gone now but we had something right from the start that couldn't be explained in words.  We could speak in half sentences and have perfect understanding.  He knew my thoughts and could feel my feelings.  He knew what I liked with out being told.  We could enjoy silence and not need to talk.  There was just something very real between us that didn't come from the present and didn't make logical sense in the physical world.  I do hope that at some point, you know what I am saying.  It is a very precious thing to have.  Maybe everyone doesn't have it in
                                        > every life time.  It is true that you do express yourself sometimes in a some what abrasive manner but you also show a lot of insight at times and I have seen a lot of compassion in what you say also at times.  In your search, it would help if maybe you weren't quite so blunt with those you don't know well.  Wouldn't it be terrible if you chased a way the very one who does know you but because of a sharp initial few words, doesn't have a chance to take a good look and see that?  My experience when meeting people face to face is if there is a strong pull or a strong repulsion, it most likely does mean, you've known them before.  Sometimes it helps to just stand still and let the other person show you who they are.  About holding on to beliefs; I find religious people need to do that whereas spiritual people tend to change theirs as they evolve with more understanding.  That's what caused most of us to get into eckankar and what caused most of us
                                        > to get out.  I use to feel angry about the lies but now I even feel a little gratitude for eckanar.  I never was one to accept things at face value and I usually wasn't fooled easily but I certainly was by eckankar.  It was a real experience.  It changed my life.  Not in the way, they intended maybe but I am now stronger, even more independent and I now know for the rest of my life, I can never be a part of any organized religious group again.  I think part of the reason I got into eckankar is I thought I needed to find those who were like me and I hoped that was it.  It wasn't but I thought I needed it to be.  Now I know I don't need that.  That's what it taught me.  Through it, I learned something of value about myself so it was a worthwhile experience.  Good luck with your search.  I hope you find just what you want.  Oh, don't forget to stand still; don't rush it and don't push it away.  Sound current and senses is another story for me
                                        > so I won't comment now.  Again, all the best to you now and always. 
                                        > --- On Tue, 12/4/12, Non <eckchains@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > From: Non <eckchains@...>
                                        > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the Sound Current?
                                        > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Date: Tuesday, December 4, 2012, 9:28 AM
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >  
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > I agree with a lot of what you have said here. I don't quite get the Soulmate though. I have been met with mostly great difficulty in actualizing this, even though it sounds quite nice. I am open to experiencing this, yet I am also naturally intuitive and also he who questions a lot and enjoys experimenting and investigating. Most people I meet are into holding tight to their beliefs and don't like being around someone like me, if I am just being myself. For some reason I ruffle feathers so maybe that means I need to stay away from certain Birds. :) I don't know the answer.
                                        >
                                        > As far as the sound current. My experience has been dreams of beautiful music sometimes, but also just feeling. Not everyone is musical. The sound current and light may actually be too limiting. It is based on our two most used human senses, seeing and hearing. There is so much more richness involved. We are lacking in our sense of smell and there are other senses that other animals know and experience that make us look like idiots sometimes. Humans are very arrogant because of our superior ability to manipulate our environment, something that if unchecked can and does cause great havoc, destruction and killing just to kill.
                                        >
                                        > Feeling and intuition is very under rated. Feelings allow us to have compassion and empathy. That is a vibration I wish there was more of. People don't like it, because it also means that we may have to relate to the pain of another, or to our own pain. People are too hardened IMHO. At the same time, bless the ones who act out of compassion to advocate and fight those who are indifferent to at least living with some level of a little empathy. I think they have compassion in them, it is just repressed, and imo is always pushing to express. I dare say, that even klemp and his HI's are so frownish and fakish, because that is how you repress feelings and natural compassion. It is harder for humans, because we are more self-aware. Native American life often at least had sacred rituals for killing to eat. We are lost..... Light and sound meditations may just be a distraction and limiting us from our Whole Being. We cannot cut off a part of ourselves and Be our
                                        > Whole Being, imo.
                                        >
                                        > Non ; )
                                        >
                                        > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > Hello Tyson, Russ, and All,
                                        > > I believe that religious myth
                                        > > was created to explain away
                                        > > the phenomenal, and that
                                        > > religion was created in order
                                        > > to control the masses and,
                                        > > thus, use this undertaking
                                        > > for money, power, greed,
                                        > > status and other self-benefits
                                        > > for the hierarchies.
                                        > >
                                        > > The Blue Light/Blue Star?
                                        > > The human mind/brain
                                        > > functions similarly and
                                        > > when attention is placed
                                        > > upon subjects this produces
                                        > > chemical and electrical
                                        > > reactions. There are even
                                        > > mixed but similar responses
                                        > > to unconscious stimuli.
                                        > > But many people realize
                                        > > all of this but tend to
                                        > > forget it when seeking
                                        > > "spiritual" answers.
                                        > >
                                        > > People should not have
                                        > > faith in the words of
                                        > > others. People should
                                        > > No Longer give others
                                        > > 'the benefit of the doubt.'
                                        > >
                                        > > Yes, we can look at what
                                        > > principles they are sharing
                                        > > in order to help us to
                                        > > achieve a greater realization
                                        > > but we should not limit
                                        > > ourselves from going
                                        > > beyond the realizations
                                        > > and achievements in
                                        > > higher consciousness
                                        > > of those we view as
                                        > > ideals/icons.
                                        > >
                                        > > Thus, the concept of
                                        > > "Master" needs to be
                                        > > revised and eliminated.
                                        > >
                                        > > When the lessons have
                                        > > been taught, via real
                                        > > world examples of
                                        > > living, it then becomes
                                        > > our responsibility
                                        > > to demonstrate what
                                        > > we have learned as
                                        > > it pertains to our
                                        > > own unique individual
                                        > > personality and
                                        > > circumstances. We
                                        > > move-on and into
                                        > > our own unrestricted
                                        > > conscious awareness.
                                        > >
                                        > > IMHO- Jesus, and not
                                        > > always his apostles,
                                        > > taught some really
                                        > > advanced concepts.
                                        > > Too advanced for
                                        > > most of us today!
                                        > >
                                        > > I'll never forget this
                                        > > one Fung Fu episode
                                        > > where Cain ran into
                                        > > some religious fanatics
                                        > > who would not defend
                                        > > themselves and would
                                        > > turn the other cheek.
                                        > > Cain showed them that
                                        > > there was a third response.
                                        > > Instead of becoming
                                        > > a victim of violence,
                                        > > or responding with
                                        > > violence Cain stopped/
                                        > > blocked the violence
                                        > > i.e. punch or object
                                        > > and redirected its
                                        > > intended path.
                                        > >
                                        > > Anyway, I've heard
                                        > > sounds when first
                                        > > starting to mediate
                                        > > via TM. Everyone
                                        > > heard these tones.
                                        > > Generally the mind
                                        > > blocks out these
                                        > > background noises
                                        > > until it quiets down
                                        > > and empties itself.
                                        > > Actually, one can
                                        > > follow these sounds
                                        > > without placing
                                        > > too much attention
                                        > > on them. That's the
                                        > > trick. One doesn't
                                        > > place attention or
                                        > > attachment on any
                                        > > thought, imaginary
                                        > > vision or sound no
                                        > > matter how pleasant.
                                        > >
                                        > > Eventually, this will
                                        > > produce other by-
                                        > > products of awareness
                                        > > such as contentment.
                                        > >
                                        > > I have to say that one
                                        > > must discover their
                                        > > own reality. Don't take
                                        > > my word for anything.
                                        > > Divine Awareness is
                                        > > an individual experience
                                        > > and not a group path.
                                        > > I called it "Divine Awareness"
                                        > > in oder to give this
                                        > > private and personal
                                        > > Discovery by Soul a
                                        > > special designation.
                                        > > By referring to the
                                        > > uniqueness of the
                                        > > individual experience
                                        > > as 'Soul' does likewise.
                                        > >
                                        > > I will have to say that
                                        > > I've had help in validating
                                        > > that there is a Reality
                                        > > beyond the scientific
                                        > > explanations and that
                                        > > of religious dogma.
                                        > >
                                        > > I can only say that
                                        > > the Soulmate concept
                                        > > (IMO) is real in that
                                        > > it helps these Souls
                                        > > to form a special
                                        > > bond in order to merge
                                        > > and harmonize their
                                        > > vibrations and to better
                                        > > 'tune-in' to glimpses
                                        > > of, perhaps, our true
                                        > > origins and potential
                                        > > but also of this Here
                                        > > and Now.
                                        > >
                                        > > Prometheus
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > "Tyson" wrote:
                                        > > The sound current, bani,
                                        > > shabd or nam is real.
                                        > >
                                        > > There is no religion that
                                        > > can claim it as there own.
                                        > >
                                        > > What is fiction is the
                                        > > dependance on a master
                                        > > that is created by religions
                                        > > of the light and sound.
                                        > >
                                        > > Only one initiation is
                                        > > important.
                                        > >
                                        > > Yet faith in a past master
                                        > > such as Christ, Krishna
                                        > > or Guru Nanak is just as
                                        > > valid.
                                        > >
                                        > > There is no mahanta.
                                        > >
                                        > > The blue star is no
                                        > > other than a manifestation
                                        > > created by a meeting
                                        > > between the holy spirit
                                        > > and ones higher self
                                        > > (soul).
                                        > >
                                        > > For Harold to claim to
                                        > > be the blue star is a
                                        > > way to snare the gullible.
                                        > > He is no more the blue
                                        > > star than the second
                                        > > coming of christ.
                                        > >
                                        > > I had heard the rushing
                                        > > wind as a member of
                                        > > eckankar so I wrongly
                                        > > believed that this path
                                        > > must be true.
                                        > >
                                        > > It was meditation on
                                        > > the third eye that brought
                                        > > the rushing wind, not
                                        > > Klemp.
                                        > >
                                        > > Eckankar was taken from
                                        > > the Sihk word Ek Ong Kar.
                                        > > Ek Ong Kar means one
                                        > > divine energy permeates
                                        > > all things.
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Russ wrote:
                                        > > > I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is ex eckist, interviewing
                                        > > David Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.
                                        > >
                                        > > > One of the interviewees, a man made a statement, paraphrasing here, that in
                                        > > his mind it doesn't matter where the writings of eckankar come from because he
                                        > > is finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it's more important to have a
                                        > > connection with the sound current.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > I used to have that exact point of view. What changed for me?
                                        > > >
                                        > > > One thing I used to feel good about when talking about eck was this idea that
                                        > > it has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was synonymous with the sound
                                        > > current.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored for a decade, after
                                        > > becoming a 5th. I could no longer ignore this dissonance, caused by the
                                        > > plaigarism and ultimately this had led to me dropping out of eckankar.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > I have a question concerning the sound current. I experience this sound,
                                        > > sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous to my study of eck. Maybe
                                        > > it isn't important, where you read about it, if you take it as a principle and
                                        > > work with it.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Do you folks think the sound current is bogus? Delusions?
                                        > > >
                                        > > > This is an interesting point because I am interested in truth...
                                        > > >
                                        > > > BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion, good work. But this by
                                        > > itself doesn't go to the underlying issues concerning the question, "What is the
                                        > > Truth regarding the idea of the sound current as a way of connection with the
                                        > > Divine??"
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Thanks,
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Russ
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        >

                                      • Janice Pfeiffer
                                        I can t view the concept of a soulmate being two parts of a whole no matter where it comes from.  I don t believe any of us are half of a whole.  Maybe Paul
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Dec 9, 2012
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                                          I can't view the concept of a soulmate being two parts of a whole no matter where it comes from.  I don't believe any of us are half of a whole.  Maybe Paul needed that concept as a reason for why he fell for Gail. 

                                          --- On Sat, 12/8/12, etznab18 <etznab@...> wrote:

                                          From: etznab18 <etznab@...>
                                          Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the Sound Current?
                                          To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                                          Date: Saturday, December 8, 2012, 5:11 AM

                                           
                                          I don't believe Paul Twitchell reinvented the Soul Mates thing. It looks to me more like he plagiarized, or paraphrased about it (adding his own spin as well, under the guise of Eck Masters, etc.). But hey, Eckankar is not a cult and it's against spiritual law to push one's beliefs on another :) If you don't believe me just read the FAQ section on Eckankar's web site. Look for the question: Is Eckankar a cult?

                                          ***

                                          There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book, Dialogues With The Master (1970), called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.

                                          Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness (first published in 1913?) - and compare the text with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to Paul Twitchell in Dialogues With The Master.

                                          http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up

                                          http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNomad.pdf

                                          ***

                                          Remember that controversial subject of Soul Mates which appeared in Paul Twitche;ll's earlier books (I thought it was TTF, but here is something in DWTM)?

                                          Ali Nomad:

                                          Each and every SOUL, therefore, has its spiritual counterpart--its "other half," with which it unites on the spiritual plane, when the time comes for attainment of immortality.

                                          Lord Sohang:

                                          "Each and every Soul, therefore, in the lower worlds has its spiritual counterpart - its other half with which it unites on the spiritual plane, when the time comes for the attainment of the highest goal of the world of Brahm and that counterpart is the ECK Spirit." (DWTM p. 176)

                                          https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!searchin/alt.religion.eckankar/soul$20mates|sort:date/alt.religion.eckankar/9_e16rhw3gA/3VmvQQ811QsJ

                                          Now of course it depends on who Paul Twitchell is plagiarizing, as the information can vary. It can even appear contradictory. Example:

                                          [...] But unless the union has already been made in heaven through pure love, the physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness, for like all true sacraments it must be entered into and registered upon all planes. (p. 220)
                                          The Law of Divine Love will bring to each Soul its true marriage, a union in perfect purity on all planes. This according to the one life-theory is of course impossible for all; but since reincarnation is a fact, the Soul, through repeated experiences, learns to follow its Divine Guidance, hence will ultimately find its true mate. But they can be spiritually as well as physically married to their mates only when the old accounts of both have been balanced and the old complications set up through the mistakes of the past have been worked out. [... .]. (p. 221)

                                          The Voice Of Isis And Realms Of The Living Dead, by Harriett Augusta Curtiss

                                          http://archive.org/stream/TheVoiceOfIsis2ndEdition/CurtissFhAndHaTheVoiceOfIsis2ndEdition_djvu.txt

                                          Rebazar Tarzs in DWTM:

                                          "Now for the part of union between man and woman. Unless this union has been made on the higher planes through pure thought, the physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness, for like all true sacraments it must be entered into and registered upon all planes.
                                          "The law of divine love will bring to each Soul Its true marriage and union in perfect purity on all planes. This true marriage is that of Soul with the ECK - the polarization of each Soul - not two Souls or man and woman coming together. And, as it is, each Soul will be guided through repeated experience by divine guidance until It finds this true love, the love of ECK through the Mahanta. You can be spiritually as well as physically married to a mate only when the old accounts of both have been balanced, and old complications set up through mistakes of the past have been worked out. (p. 115)

                                          (My guess is that someone revised the original DWTM manuscript since the ECK (all caps) trademark didn't come about until 1968 and the Mahanta term didn't come into vogue until 1969; whereas the DWTM manuscript was reportedly written in 1956!)

                                          Now I remember (I think it was in The Tiger's Fang, Or was it The Eck-Vidya?) some Soul Mates controversy in Eckankar history where I believe Harold Klemp and Eckankar had to "correct" what Paul Twitchell earlier wrote. It was no longer about two people coming together, but a person finding (in so many words) their own "higher self".

                                          I haven't finished checking all the references to Soul Mates in all of Paul's books, so don't just go on what I quoted from DWTM.

                                          ***

                                          Btw, my Yahoo has been bouncing since Nov. 28 so I've been out of the loop since then and hadn't received any posts via email. Just now are catching up.

                                          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Hello Non eckchains and All,
                                          > The Soulmate theory
                                          > phenomena is an interesting
                                          > spiritual perspective
                                          > and is, actually, unlimited
                                          > by conventional New Age
                                          > thought. Eckankar (PT)
                                          > reinvented it with a
                                          > Twin-Soul perspective.
                                          > This is interesting, but
                                          > IMO it shouldn't be limited
                                          > to or by PT's "Twin" Soul
                                          > view and a single pairing
                                          > only.
                                          >
                                          > Thus, the connection that
                                          > some/many Souls have with
                                          > one another (IMO) s/b referred
                                          > to in the plural. Thus, Soulmates
                                          > is more than one pairing.
                                          > Unfortunately, for Eckists,
                                          > Klemp has them locked into
                                          > a "Twin" concept when there
                                          > are Triplets and many more!
                                          > This phenomena can be
                                          > a special connection/attraction
                                          > with lifelong friends, as well,
                                          > and not always be with sexual
                                          > partners.
                                          >
                                          > As far as Klemp's fraud
                                          > and his "frownish and fakish"
                                          > H.I.'s, well, that's to be
                                          > expected when they emulate
                                          > HK's own behaviour via clues
                                          > with the way the EK hierarchy
                                          > is run or the way in which
                                          > he speaks/refers to Joan and/
                                          > or tells his stories.
                                          >
                                          > With Klemp there's a lack
                                          > of forgiveness, compassion,
                                          > and empathy. These are
                                          > missing from Klemp's own
                                          > perspectives in his own life
                                          > stories.
                                          >
                                          > It's easy for him to judge
                                          > others and point out flaws
                                          > or to add "insight" and to
                                          > do EK tweaks on the letters
                                          > sent to him. And, that's
                                          > what Klemp does when
                                          > he "writes" in his hermit
                                          > batty cave.
                                          >
                                          > Thus, many of HK's RESAs
                                          > emulate his lack of empathy,
                                          > compassion, and forgiveness.
                                          > They talk a lot about "love"
                                          > but when it comes to the
                                          > business/spiritual side of
                                          > Eckankar and the "Guidelines,"
                                          > as set forth by HK via the
                                          > ESC, there is not much room
                                          > leftover for the byproducts
                                          > of love.
                                          >
                                          > Look at the way the Higher
                                          > initiations are handed out.
                                          > There are always strings
                                          > attached and it has more
                                          > to do with "Outer" posturing
                                          > and faking it with physical
                                          > requirements. What is said
                                          > or isn't said to the RESA
                                          > or done as a volunteer,
                                          > than with anything else
                                          > or with one's visible goodness,
                                          > has more importance in
                                          > deciding who gets a pink
                                          > slip. It's not love for God.
                                          > Long-time Eckists who
                                          > are loyal and loving and
                                          > are very nice people are
                                          > excluded from becoming
                                          > H.I.s because they haven't
                                          > jumped through enough
                                          > physical hoops of training,
                                          > retraining, volunteering, etc.
                                          >
                                          > Or, maybe they didn't seem
                                          > like a 'take charge" leader
                                          > or have a college education
                                          > and/or were high profile
                                          > professionals. It's amazing
                                          > how petty RESAs can be,
                                          > and these people are the
                                          > "righthand" of Klemp.
                                          >
                                          > In truth, many people who
                                          > left Eckankar did so out of
                                          > frustration caused via neglect
                                          > and unloving behavior towards
                                          > them. Once you've become
                                          > a member their main goal
                                          > has been achieved. From
                                          > there they dangle the carrot
                                          > for the higher initiations
                                          > and, now, make it very
                                          > difficult to achieve the 7th.
                                          > Eckists need to become
                                          > ESAs to become RESAs
                                          > and unless you're already
                                          > an ESA it's, now, much
                                          > more difficult to achieve.
                                          > And, for a 6th ESA to get
                                          > the 7th they, usually, need
                                          > to become a RESA.
                                          >
                                          > Thus, Klemp slowed-down
                                          > Initiations in 1985 due to
                                          > Darwin making 500 new
                                          > 5ths before leaving office.
                                          > So, more that 25 years later
                                          > what is Klemp's excuse for
                                          > not making more H.I.s and
                                          > for not expanding the "outer"
                                          > initiations and their numbers?
                                          >
                                          > It's actually a simple/obvious
                                          > explanation. Klemp is selfish.
                                          >
                                          > Klemp's lack of empathy,
                                          > compassion, forgiveness and
                                          > real, true love for his fellow
                                          > eckists, and the trickle-down
                                          > effect within the EK Hierarchy,
                                          > is why Eckankar and ECKists
                                          > are broken and lost. Their
                                          > delusional faith and fellowship
                                          > (it's a numbers game) is
                                          > what they cling to as do
                                          > all religionists. Yet, as with
                                          > all religionists, their faith
                                          > has the only chosen ones
                                          > who have been gifted with
                                          > special insight into God
                                          > (or whatever name they use).
                                          > EK is simply more of the same
                                          > but tweaked to fit a special
                                          > New Age/Metaphysical mindset.
                                          > It's the Easy Way until those,
                                          > now, with less than 30 plus
                                          > years want a 6th or 7th
                                          > initiation.
                                          >
                                          > Prometheus
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > "Non" eckchains wrote:
                                          > I agree with a lot of what you have said here. I don't quite get the Soulmate
                                          > though. I have been met with mostly great difficulty in actualizing this, even
                                          > though it sounds quite nice. I am open to experiencing this, yet I am also
                                          > naturally intuitive and also he who questions a lot and enjoys experimenting and
                                          > investigating. Most people I meet are into holding tight to their beliefs and
                                          > don't like being around someone like me, if I am just being myself. For some
                                          > reason I ruffle feathers so maybe that means I need to stay away from certain
                                          > Birds. :) I don't know the answer.
                                          >
                                          > As far as the sound current. My experience has been dreams of beautiful music
                                          > sometimes, but also just feeling. Not everyone is musical. The sound current and
                                          > light may actually be too limiting. It is based on our two most used human
                                          > senses, seeing and hearing. There is so much more richness involved. We are
                                          > lacking in our sense of smell and there are other senses that other animals know
                                          > and experience that make us look like idiots sometimes. Humans are very arrogant
                                          > because of our superior ability to manipulate our environment, something that if
                                          > unchecked can and does cause great havoc, destruction and killing just to kill.
                                          >
                                          > Feeling and intuition is very under rated. Feelings allow us to have compassion
                                          > and empathy. That is a vibration I wish there was more of. People don't like it,
                                          > because it also means that we may have to relate to the pain of another, or to
                                          > our own pain. People are too hardened IMHO. At the same time, bless the ones who
                                          > act out of compassion to advocate and fight those who are indifferent to at
                                          > least living with some level of a little empathy. I think they have compassion
                                          > in them, it is just repressed, and imo is always pushing to express. I dare say,
                                          > that even klemp and his HI's are so frownish and fakish, because that is how you
                                          > repress feelings and natural compassion. It is harder for humans, because we are
                                          > more self-aware. Native American life often at least had sacred rituals for
                                          > killing to eat. We are lost..... Light and sound meditations may just be a
                                          > distraction and limiting us from our Whole Being. We cannot cut off a part of
                                          > ourselves and Be our Whole Being, imo.
                                          >
                                          > Non ; )
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > <prometheus wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > Hello Tyson, Russ, and All,
                                          > > I believe that religious myth
                                          > > was created to explain away
                                          > > the phenomenal, and that
                                          > > religion was created in order
                                          > > to control the masses and,
                                          > > thus, use this undertaking
                                          > > for money, power, greed,
                                          > > status and other self-benefits
                                          > > for the hierarchies.
                                          > >
                                          > > The Blue Light/Blue Star?
                                          > > The human mind/brain
                                          > > functions similarly and
                                          > > when attention is placed
                                          > > upon subjects this produces
                                          > > chemical and electrical
                                          > > reactions. There are even
                                          > > mixed but similar responses
                                          > > to unconscious stimuli.
                                          > > But many people realize
                                          > > all of this but tend to
                                          > > forget it when seeking
                                          > > "spiritual" answers.
                                          > >
                                          > > People should not have
                                          > > faith in the words of
                                          > > others. People should
                                          > > No Longer give others
                                          > > 'the benefit of the doubt.'
                                          > >
                                          > > Yes, we can look at what
                                          > > principles they are sharing
                                          > > in order to help us to
                                          > > achieve a greater realization
                                          > > but we should not limit
                                          > > ourselves from going
                                          > > beyond the realizations
                                          > > and achievements in
                                          > > higher consciousness
                                          > > of those we view as
                                          > > ideals/icons.
                                          > >
                                          > > Thus, the concept of
                                          > > "Master" needs to be
                                          > > revised and eliminated.
                                          > >
                                          > > When the lessons have
                                          > > been taught, via real
                                          > > world examples of
                                          > > living, it then becomes
                                          > > our responsibility
                                          > > to demonstrate what
                                          > > we have learned as
                                          > > it pertains to our
                                          > > own unique individual
                                          > > personality and
                                          > > circumstances. We
                                          > > move-on and into
                                          > > our own unrestricted
                                          > > conscious awareness.
                                          > >
                                          > > IMHO- Jesus, and not
                                          > > always his apostles,
                                          > > taught some really
                                          > > advanced concepts.
                                          > > Too advanced for
                                          > > most of us today!
                                          > >
                                          > > I'll never forget this
                                          > > one Fung Fu episode
                                          > > where Cain ran into
                                          > > some religious fanatics
                                          > > who would not defend
                                          > > themselves and would
                                          > > turn the other cheek.
                                          > > Cain showed them that
                                          > > there was a third response.
                                          > > Instead of becoming
                                          > > a victim of violence,
                                          > > or responding with
                                          > > violence Cain stopped/
                                          > > blocked the violence
                                          > > i.e. punch or object
                                          > > and redirected its
                                          > > intended path.
                                          > >
                                          > > Anyway, I've heard
                                          > > sounds when first
                                          > > starting to mediate
                                          > > via TM. Everyone
                                          > > heard these tones.
                                          > > Generally the mind
                                          > > blocks out these
                                          > > background noises
                                          > > until it quiets down
                                          > > and empties itself.
                                          > > Actually, one can
                                          > > follow these sounds
                                          > > without placing
                                          > > too much attention
                                          > > on them. That's the
                                          > > trick. One doesn't
                                          > > place attention or
                                          > > attachment on any
                                          > > thought, imaginary
                                          > > vision or sound no
                                          > > matter how pleasant.
                                          > >
                                          > > Eventually, this will
                                          > > produce other by-
                                          > > products of awareness
                                          > > such as contentment.
                                          > >
                                          > > I have to say that one
                                          > > must discover their
                                          > > own reality. Don't take
                                          > > my word for anything.
                                          > > Divine Awareness is
                                          > > an individual experience
                                          > > and not a group path.
                                          > > I called it "Divine Awareness"
                                          > > in oder to give this
                                          > > private and personal
                                          > > Discovery by Soul a
                                          > > special designation.
                                          > > By referring to the
                                          > > uniqueness of the
                                          > > individual experience
                                          > > as 'Soul' does likewise.
                                          > >
                                          > > I will have to say that
                                          > > I've had help in validating
                                          > > that there is a Reality
                                          > > beyond the scientific
                                          > > explanations and that
                                          > > of religious dogma.
                                          > >
                                          > > I can only say that
                                          > > the Soulmate concept
                                          > > (IMO) is real in that
                                          > > it helps these Souls
                                          > > to form a special
                                          > > bond in order to merge
                                          > > and harmonize their
                                          > > vibrations and to better
                                          > > 'tune-in' to glimpses
                                          > > of, perhaps, our true
                                          > > origins and potential
                                          > > but also of this Here
                                          > > and Now.
                                          > >
                                          > > Prometheus
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > "Tyson" wrote:
                                          > > The sound current, bani,
                                          > > shabd or nam is real.
                                          > >
                                          > > There is no religion that
                                          > > can claim it as there own.
                                          > >
                                          > > What is fiction is the
                                          > > dependance on a master
                                          > > that is created by religions
                                          > > of the light and sound.
                                          > >
                                          > > Only one initiation is
                                          > > important.
                                          > >
                                          > > Yet faith in a past master
                                          > > such as Christ, Krishna
                                          > > or Guru Nanak is just as
                                          > > valid.
                                          > >
                                          > > There is no mahanta.
                                          > >
                                          > > The blue star is no
                                          > > other than a manifestation
                                          > > created by a meeting
                                          > > between the holy spirit
                                          > > and ones higher self
                                          > > (soul).
                                          > >
                                          > > For Harold to claim to
                                          > > be the blue star is a
                                          > > way to snare the gullible.
                                          > > He is no more the blue
                                          > > star than the second
                                          > > coming of christ.
                                          > >
                                          > > I had heard the rushing
                                          > > wind as a member of
                                          > > eckankar so I wrongly
                                          > > believed that this path
                                          > > must be true.
                                          > >
                                          > > It was meditation on
                                          > > the third eye that brought
                                          > > the rushing wind, not
                                          > > Klemp.
                                          > >
                                          > > Eckankar was taken from
                                          > > the Sihk word Ek Ong Kar.
                                          > > Ek Ong Kar means one
                                          > > divine energy permeates
                                          > > all things.
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > Russ wrote:
                                          > > > I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is ex eckist, interviewing
                                          > > David Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.
                                          > >
                                          > > > One of the interviewees, a man made a statement, paraphrasing here, that in
                                          > > his mind it doesn't matter where the writings of eckankar come from because he
                                          > > is finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it's more important to have
                                          > a
                                          > > connection with the sound current.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > I used to have that exact point of view. What changed for me?
                                          > > >
                                          > > > One thing I used to feel good about when talking about eck was this idea
                                          > that
                                          > > it has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was synonymous with the
                                          > sound
                                          > > current.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored for a decade, after
                                          > > becoming a 5th. I could no longer ignore this dissonance, caused by the
                                          > > plaigarism and ultimately this had led to me dropping out of eckankar.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > I have a question concerning the sound current. I experience this sound,
                                          > > sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous to my study of eck.
                                          > Maybe
                                          > > it isn't important, where you read about it, if you take it as a principle and
                                          > > work with it.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Do you folks think the sound current is bogus? Delusions?
                                          > > >
                                          > > > This is an interesting point because I am interested in truth...
                                          > > >
                                          > > > BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion, good work. But this by
                                          > > itself doesn't go to the underlying issues concerning the question, "What is
                                          > the
                                          > > Truth regarding the idea of the sound current as a way of connection with the
                                          > > Divine??"
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Thanks,
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Russ
                                          >

                                        • harrisonferrel
                                          I agree. But I also think that most New Age thinking is absurd because it is baseless and without evidence. The soul concept cannot be proven, let alone the
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Dec 10, 2012
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            I agree. But I also think that most New Age thinking is absurd because it is baseless and without evidence. The soul concept cannot be proven, let alone the soulmate idea.



                                            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer <jepfeiffer@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > I can't view the concept of a soulmate being two parts of a whole no matter where it comes from.  I don't believe any of us are half of a whole.  Maybe Paul needed that concept as a reason for why he fell for Gail. 
                                            >
                                            > --- On Sat, 12/8/12, etznab18 <etznab@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > From: etznab18 <etznab@...>
                                            > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the Sound Current?
                                            > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Date: Saturday, December 8, 2012, 5:11 AM
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >  
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > I don't believe Paul Twitchell reinvented the Soul Mates thing. It looks to me more like he plagiarized, or paraphrased about it (adding his own spin as well, under the guise of Eck Masters, etc.). But hey, Eckankar is not a cult and it's against spiritual law to push one's beliefs on another :) If you don't believe me just read the FAQ section on Eckankar's web site. Look for the question: Is Eckankar a cult?
                                            >
                                            > ***
                                            >
                                            > There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book, Dialogues With The Master (1970), called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.
                                            >
                                            > Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness (first published in 1913?) - and compare the text with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to Paul Twitchell in Dialogues With The Master.
                                            >
                                            > http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up
                                            >
                                            > http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNomad.pdf
                                            >
                                            > ***
                                            >
                                            > Remember that controversial subject of Soul Mates which appeared in Paul Twitche;ll's earlier books (I thought it was TTF, but here is something in DWTM)?
                                            >
                                            > Ali Nomad:
                                            >
                                            > Each and every SOUL, therefore, has its spiritual counterpart--its "other half," with which it unites on the spiritual plane, when the time comes for attainment of immortality.
                                            >
                                            > Lord Sohang:
                                            >
                                            > "Each and every Soul, therefore, in the lower worlds has its spiritual counterpart - its other half with which it unites on the spiritual plane, when the time comes for the attainment of the highest goal of the world of Brahm and that counterpart is the ECK Spirit." (DWTM p. 176)
                                            >
                                            > https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!searchin/alt.religion.eckankar/soul$20mates|sort:date/alt.religion.eckankar/9_e16rhw3gA/3VmvQQ811QsJ
                                            >
                                            > Now of course it depends on who Paul Twitchell is plagiarizing, as the information can vary. It can even appear contradictory. Example:
                                            >
                                            > [...] But unless the union has already been made in heaven through pure love, the physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness, for like all true sacraments it must be entered into and registered upon all planes. (p. 220)
                                            > The Law of Divine Love will bring to each Soul its true marriage, a union in perfect purity on all planes. This according to the one life-theory is of course impossible for all; but since reincarnation is a fact, the Soul, through repeated experiences, learns to follow its Divine Guidance, hence will ultimately find its true mate. But they can be spiritually as well as physically married to their mates only when the old accounts of both have been balanced and the old complications set up through the mistakes of the past have been worked out. [... .]. (p. 221)
                                            >
                                            > The Voice Of Isis And Realms Of The Living Dead, by Harriett Augusta Curtiss
                                            >
                                            > http://archive.org/stream/TheVoiceOfIsis2ndEdition/CurtissFhAndHaTheVoiceOfIsis2ndEdition_djvu.txt
                                            >
                                            > Rebazar Tarzs in DWTM:
                                            >
                                            > "Now for the part of union between man and woman. Unless this union has been made on the higher planes through pure thought, the physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness, for like all true sacraments it must be entered into and registered upon all planes.
                                            > "The law of divine love will bring to each Soul Its true marriage and union in perfect purity on all planes. This true marriage is that of Soul with the ECK - the polarization of each Soul - not two Souls or man and woman coming together. And, as it is, each Soul will be guided through repeated experience by divine guidance until It finds this true love, the love of ECK through the Mahanta. You can be spiritually as well as physically married to a mate only when the old accounts of both have been balanced, and old complications set up through mistakes of the past have been worked out. (p. 115)
                                            >
                                            > (My guess is that someone revised the original DWTM manuscript since the ECK (all caps) trademark didn't come about until 1968 and the Mahanta term didn't come into vogue until 1969; whereas the DWTM manuscript was reportedly written in 1956!)
                                            >
                                            > Now I remember (I think it was in The Tiger's Fang, Or was it The Eck-Vidya?) some Soul Mates controversy in Eckankar history where I believe Harold Klemp and Eckankar had to "correct" what Paul Twitchell earlier wrote. It was no longer about two people coming together, but a person finding (in so many words) their own "higher self".
                                            >
                                            > I haven't finished checking all the references to Soul Mates in all of Paul's books, so don't just go on what I quoted from DWTM.
                                            >
                                            > ***
                                            >
                                            > Btw, my Yahoo has been bouncing since Nov. 28 so I've been out of the loop since then and hadn't received any posts via email. Just now are catching up.
                                            >
                                            > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > Hello Non eckchains and All,
                                            > > The Soulmate theory
                                            > > phenomena is an interesting
                                            > > spiritual perspective
                                            > > and is, actually, unlimited
                                            > > by conventional New Age
                                            > > thought. Eckankar (PT)
                                            > > reinvented it with a
                                            > > Twin-Soul perspective.
                                            > > This is interesting, but
                                            > > IMO it shouldn't be limited
                                            > > to or by PT's "Twin" Soul
                                            > > view and a single pairing
                                            > > only.
                                            > >
                                            > > Thus, the connection that
                                            > > some/many Souls have with
                                            > > one another (IMO) s/b referred
                                            > > to in the plural. Thus, Soulmates
                                            > > is more than one pairing.
                                            > > Unfortunately, for Eckists,
                                            > > Klemp has them locked into
                                            > > a "Twin" concept when there
                                            > > are Triplets and many more!
                                            > > This phenomena can be
                                            > > a special connection/attraction
                                            > > with lifelong friends, as well,
                                            > > and not always be with sexual
                                            > > partners.
                                            > >
                                            > > As far as Klemp's fraud
                                            > > and his "frownish and fakish"
                                            > > H.I.'s, well, that's to be
                                            > > expected when they emulate
                                            > > HK's own behaviour via clues
                                            > > with the way the EK hierarchy
                                            > > is run or the way in which
                                            > > he speaks/refers to Joan and/
                                            > > or tells his stories.
                                            > >
                                            > > With Klemp there's a lack
                                            > > of forgiveness, compassion,
                                            > > and empathy. These are
                                            > > missing from Klemp's own
                                            > > perspectives in his own life
                                            > > stories.
                                            > >
                                            > > It's easy for him to judge
                                            > > others and point out flaws
                                            > > or to add "insight" and to
                                            > > do EK tweaks on the letters
                                            > > sent to him. And, that's
                                            > > what Klemp does when
                                            > > he "writes" in his hermit
                                            > > batty cave.
                                            > >
                                            > > Thus, many of HK's RESAs
                                            > > emulate his lack of empathy,
                                            > > compassion, and forgiveness.
                                            > > They talk a lot about "love"
                                            > > but when it comes to the
                                            > > business/spiritual side of
                                            > > Eckankar and the "Guidelines,"
                                            > > as set forth by HK via the
                                            > > ESC, there is not much room
                                            > > leftover for the byproducts
                                            > > of love.
                                            > >
                                            > > Look at the way the Higher
                                            > > initiations are handed out.
                                            > > There are always strings
                                            > > attached and it has more
                                            > > to do with "Outer" posturing
                                            > > and faking it with physical
                                            > > requirements. What is said
                                            > > or isn't said to the RESA
                                            > > or done as a volunteer,
                                            > > than with anything else
                                            > > or with one's visible goodness,
                                            > > has more importance in
                                            > > deciding who gets a pink
                                            > > slip. It's not love for God.
                                            > > Long-time Eckists who
                                            > > are loyal and loving and
                                            > > are very nice people are
                                            > > excluded from becoming
                                            > > H.I.s because they haven't
                                            > > jumped through enough
                                            > > physical hoops of training,
                                            > > retraining, volunteering, etc.
                                            > >
                                            > > Or, maybe they didn't seem
                                            > > like a 'take charge" leader
                                            > > or have a college education
                                            > > and/or were high profile
                                            > > professionals. It's amazing
                                            > > how petty RESAs can be,
                                            > > and these people are the
                                            > > "righthand" of Klemp.
                                            > >
                                            > > In truth, many people who
                                            > > left Eckankar did so out of
                                            > > frustration caused via neglect
                                            > > and unloving behavior towards
                                            > > them. Once you've become
                                            > > a member their main goal
                                            > > has been achieved. From
                                            > > there they dangle the carrot
                                            > > for the higher initiations
                                            > > and, now, make it very
                                            > > difficult to achieve the 7th.
                                            > > Eckists need to become
                                            > > ESAs to become RESAs
                                            > > and unless you're already
                                            > > an ESA it's, now, much
                                            > > more difficult to achieve.
                                            > > And, for a 6th ESA to get
                                            > > the 7th they, usually, need
                                            > > to become a RESA.
                                            > >
                                            > > Thus, Klemp slowed-down
                                            > > Initiations in 1985 due to
                                            > > Darwin making 500 new
                                            > > 5ths before leaving office.
                                            > > So, more that 25 years later
                                            > > what is Klemp's excuse for
                                            > > not making more H.I.s and
                                            > > for not expanding the "outer"
                                            > > initiations and their numbers?
                                            > >
                                            > > It's actually a simple/obvious
                                            > > explanation. Klemp is selfish.
                                            > >
                                            > > Klemp's lack of empathy,
                                            > > compassion, forgiveness and
                                            > > real, true love for his fellow
                                            > > eckists, and the trickle-down
                                            > > effect within the EK Hierarchy,
                                            > > is why Eckankar and ECKists
                                            > > are broken and lost. Their
                                            > > delusional faith and fellowship
                                            > > (it's a numbers game) is
                                            > > what they cling to as do
                                            > > all religionists. Yet, as with
                                            > > all religionists, their faith
                                            > > has the only chosen ones
                                            > > who have been gifted with
                                            > > special insight into God
                                            > > (or whatever name they use).
                                            > > EK is simply more of the same
                                            > > but tweaked to fit a special
                                            > > New Age/Metaphysical mindset.
                                            > > It's the Easy Way until those,
                                            > > now, with less than 30 plus
                                            > > years want a 6th or 7th
                                            > > initiation.
                                            > >
                                            > > Prometheus
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > "Non" eckchains wrote:
                                            > > I agree with a lot of what you have said here. I don't quite get the Soulmate
                                            > > though. I have been met with mostly great difficulty in actualizing this, even
                                            > > though it sounds quite nice. I am open to experiencing this, yet I am also
                                            > > naturally intuitive and also he who questions a lot and enjoys experimenting and
                                            > > investigating. Most people I meet are into holding tight to their beliefs and
                                            > > don't like being around someone like me, if I am just being myself. For some
                                            > > reason I ruffle feathers so maybe that means I need to stay away from certain
                                            > > Birds. :) I don't know the answer.
                                            > >
                                            > > As far as the sound current. My experience has been dreams of beautiful music
                                            > > sometimes, but also just feeling. Not everyone is musical. The sound current and
                                            > > light may actually be too limiting. It is based on our two most used human
                                            > > senses, seeing and hearing. There is so much more richness involved. We are
                                            > > lacking in our sense of smell and there are other senses that other animals know
                                            > > and experience that make us look like idiots sometimes. Humans are very arrogant
                                            > > because of our superior ability to manipulate our environment, something that if
                                            > > unchecked can and does cause great havoc, destruction and killing just to kill.
                                            > >
                                            > > Feeling and intuition is very under rated. Feelings allow us to have compassion
                                            > > and empathy. That is a vibration I wish there was more of. People don't like it,
                                            > > because it also means that we may have to relate to the pain of another, or to
                                            > > our own pain. People are too hardened IMHO. At the same time, bless the ones who
                                            > > act out of compassion to advocate and fight those who are indifferent to at
                                            > > least living with some level of a little empathy. I think they have compassion
                                            > > in them, it is just repressed, and imo is always pushing to express. I dare say,
                                            > > that even klemp and his HI's are so frownish and fakish, because that is how you
                                            > > repress feelings and natural compassion. It is harder for humans, because we are
                                            > > more self-aware. Native American life often at least had sacred rituals for
                                            > > killing to eat. We are lost..... Light and sound meditations may just be a
                                            > > distraction and limiting us from our Whole Being. We cannot cut off a part of
                                            > > ourselves and Be our Whole Being, imo.
                                            > >
                                            > > Non ; )
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > <prometheus wrote:
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Hello Tyson, Russ, and All,
                                            > > > I believe that religious myth
                                            > > > was created to explain away
                                            > > > the phenomenal, and that
                                            > > > religion was created in order
                                            > > > to control the masses and,
                                            > > > thus, use this undertaking
                                            > > > for money, power, greed,
                                            > > > status and other self-benefits
                                            > > > for the hierarchies.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > The Blue Light/Blue Star?
                                            > > > The human mind/brain
                                            > > > functions similarly and
                                            > > > when attention is placed
                                            > > > upon subjects this produces
                                            > > > chemical and electrical
                                            > > > reactions. There are even
                                            > > > mixed but similar responses
                                            > > > to unconscious stimuli.
                                            > > > But many people realize
                                            > > > all of this but tend to
                                            > > > forget it when seeking
                                            > > > "spiritual" answers.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > People should not have
                                            > > > faith in the words of
                                            > > > others. People should
                                            > > > No Longer give others
                                            > > > 'the benefit of the doubt.'
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Yes, we can look at what
                                            > > > principles they are sharing
                                            > > > in order to help us to
                                            > > > achieve a greater realization
                                            > > > but we should not limit
                                            > > > ourselves from going
                                            > > > beyond the realizations
                                            > > > and achievements in
                                            > > > higher consciousness
                                            > > > of those we view as
                                            > > > ideals/icons.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Thus, the concept of
                                            > > > "Master" needs to be
                                            > > > revised and eliminated.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > When the lessons have
                                            > > > been taught, via real
                                            > > > world examples of
                                            > > > living, it then becomes
                                            > > > our responsibility
                                            > > > to demonstrate what
                                            > > > we have learned as
                                            > > > it pertains to our
                                            > > > own unique individual
                                            > > > personality and
                                            > > > circumstances. We
                                            > > > move-on and into
                                            > > > our own unrestricted
                                            > > > conscious awareness.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > IMHO- Jesus, and not
                                            > > > always his apostles,
                                            > > > taught some really
                                            > > > advanced concepts.
                                            > > > Too advanced for
                                            > > > most of us today!
                                            > > >
                                            > > > I'll never forget this
                                            > > > one Fung Fu episode
                                            > > > where Cain ran into
                                            > > > some religious fanatics
                                            > > > who would not defend
                                            > > > themselves and would
                                            > > > turn the other cheek.
                                            > > > Cain showed them that
                                            > > > there was a third response.
                                            > > > Instead of becoming
                                            > > > a victim of violence,
                                            > > > or responding with
                                            > > > violence Cain stopped/
                                            > > > blocked the violence
                                            > > > i.e. punch or object
                                            > > > and redirected its
                                            > > > intended path.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Anyway, I've heard
                                            > > > sounds when first
                                            > > > starting to mediate
                                            > > > via TM. Everyone
                                            > > > heard these tones.
                                            > > > Generally the mind
                                            > > > blocks out these
                                            > > > background noises
                                            > > > until it quiets down
                                            > > > and empties itself.
                                            > > > Actually, one can
                                            > > > follow these sounds
                                            > > > without placing
                                            > > > too much attention
                                            > > > on them. That's the
                                            > > > trick. One doesn't
                                            > > > place attention or
                                            > > > attachment on any
                                            > > > thought, imaginary
                                            > > > vision or sound no
                                            > > > matter how pleasant.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Eventually, this will
                                            > > > produce other by-
                                            > > > products of awareness
                                            > > > such as contentment.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > I have to say that one
                                            > > > must discover their
                                            > > > own reality. Don't take
                                            > > > my word for anything.
                                            > > > Divine Awareness is
                                            > > > an individual experience
                                            > > > and not a group path.
                                            > > > I called it "Divine Awareness"
                                            > > > in oder to give this
                                            > > > private and personal
                                            > > > Discovery by Soul a
                                            > > > special designation.
                                            > > > By referring to the
                                            > > > uniqueness of the
                                            > > > individual experience
                                            > > > as 'Soul' does likewise.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > I will have to say that
                                            > > > I've had help in validating
                                            > > > that there is a Reality
                                            > > > beyond the scientific
                                            > > > explanations and that
                                            > > > of religious dogma.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > I can only say that
                                            > > > the Soulmate concept
                                            > > > (IMO) is real in that
                                            > > > it helps these Souls
                                            > > > to form a special
                                            > > > bond in order to merge
                                            > > > and harmonize their
                                            > > > vibrations and to better
                                            > > > 'tune-in' to glimpses
                                            > > > of, perhaps, our true
                                            > > > origins and potential
                                            > > > but also of this Here
                                            > > > and Now.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Prometheus
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > "Tyson" wrote:
                                            > > > The sound current, bani,
                                            > > > shabd or nam is real.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > There is no religion that
                                            > > > can claim it as there own.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > What is fiction is the
                                            > > > dependance on a master
                                            > > > that is created by religions
                                            > > > of the light and sound.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Only one initiation is
                                            > > > important.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Yet faith in a past master
                                            > > > such as Christ, Krishna
                                            > > > or Guru Nanak is just as
                                            > > > valid.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > There is no mahanta.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > The blue star is no
                                            > > > other than a manifestation
                                            > > > created by a meeting
                                            > > > between the holy spirit
                                            > > > and ones higher self
                                            > > > (soul).
                                            > > >
                                            > > > For Harold to claim to
                                            > > > be the blue star is a
                                            > > > way to snare the gullible.
                                            > > > He is no more the blue
                                            > > > star than the second
                                            > > > coming of christ.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > I had heard the rushing
                                            > > > wind as a member of
                                            > > > eckankar so I wrongly
                                            > > > believed that this path
                                            > > > must be true.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > It was meditation on
                                            > > > the third eye that brought
                                            > > > the rushing wind, not
                                            > > > Klemp.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Eckankar was taken from
                                            > > > the Sihk word Ek Ong Kar.
                                            > > > Ek Ong Kar means one
                                            > > > divine energy permeates
                                            > > > all things.
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Russ wrote:
                                            > > > > I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is ex eckist, interviewing
                                            > > > David Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > > One of the interviewees, a man made a statement, paraphrasing here, that in
                                            > > > his mind it doesn't matter where the writings of eckankar come from because he
                                            > > > is finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it's more important to have
                                            > > a
                                            > > > connection with the sound current.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > I used to have that exact point of view. What changed for me?
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > One thing I used to feel good about when talking about eck was this idea
                                            > > that
                                            > > > it has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was synonymous with the
                                            > > sound
                                            > > > current.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored for a decade, after
                                            > > > becoming a 5th. I could no longer ignore this dissonance, caused by the
                                            > > > plaigarism and ultimately this had led to me dropping out of eckankar.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > I have a question concerning the sound current. I experience this sound,
                                            > > > sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous to my study of eck.
                                            > > Maybe
                                            > > > it isn't important, where you read about it, if you take it as a principle and
                                            > > > work with it.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Do you folks think the sound current is bogus? Delusions?
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > This is an interesting point because I am interested in truth...
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion, good work. But this by
                                            > > > itself doesn't go to the underlying issues concerning the question, "What is
                                            > > the
                                            > > > Truth regarding the idea of the sound current as a way of connection with the
                                            > > > Divine??"
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Thanks,
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Russ
                                            > >
                                            >
                                          • etznab@aol.com
                                            I find it suspect whenever the female is downgraded in comparison with the male. In The Tiger s Fang (according to Lord Alakh Lok?): There is more to this law
                                            Message 21 of 22 , Dec 10, 2012
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                                              I find it suspect whenever the female is downgraded in comparison with
                                              the male. In The Tiger's Fang (according to Lord Alakh Lok?):

                                              "There is more to this law than just the issues which have been given
                                              here. No Soul can enter into the worlds above the plane of Sat Lok
                                              without being complete within itself - without having both completed
                                              the cycle of balance and entering into the oneness with its other self,
                                              and both gaining the traits of the other .... and in the end, as it is
                                              said, becoming the male or original Soul as God first put on earth.
                                              This Soul had the qualities which God wanted, but could not be
                                              manifested unless Soul was split into two particular particles, the
                                              negative and the positive, for both to develop." (pp. 85-86)

                                              My comments:

                                              As it is said? Lord Alakh Lok says "as it is said"?

                                              I wonder, Did Paul Twitchell come up with this stuff from Radhasoami
                                              doctrine? Quoting:

                                              "The higher centres in a female form are less capable of being
                                              developed than in a male form. All the centres of Pind, Brahmand and
                                              Dayal Desh do exist in a woman as they do in man. But the centres
                                              higher than Sunn or Daswan Dwar cannot ordinarily be awakened in a
                                              woman. Hence, the highest point to which the spirit or Surat in a
                                              female can rise, is the Daswan Dwar. For higher ascension, the same
                                              Surat or spirit will have to take birth as a man, and perform the
                                              spiritual exercises for awakening higher centres. [... .]"

                                              http://www.rsfaith.org/images/stories/RSFBooks/English/Holy_Epistols_Part_5/holy_epistols_part_5_1.html

                                              Both versions on the subject are highly suspect, IMO. I think people
                                              probably butchered an older form of a story that subsequently took on
                                              Frankenstein form.

                                              I think there are two more sections about Soul Mates that I came across
                                              recently, both from Dialogues With The Master, at least one version of
                                              which appears to be from appropriated text.



                                              -----Original Message-----
                                              From: harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...>
                                              To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
                                              <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
                                              Sent: Mon, Dec 10, 2012 4:26 pm
                                              Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the
                                              Sound Current?

                                               
                                              I agree. But I also think that most New Age thinking is absurd because
                                              it is baseless and without evidence. The soul concept cannot be proven,
                                              let alone the soulmate idea.

                                              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer
                                              <jepfeiffer@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > I can't view the concept of a soulmate being two parts of a whole
                                              no matter where it comes from.  I don't believe any of us are half of
                                              a whole.  Maybe Paul needed that concept as a reason for why he fell
                                              for Gail. 
                                              >
                                              > --- On Sat, 12/8/12, etznab18 <etznab@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > From: etznab18 <etznab@...>
                                              > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Truth vs. Fiction of the
                                              Sound Current?
                                              > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Date: Saturday, December 8, 2012, 5:11 AM
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >  
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > I don't believe Paul Twitchell reinvented the Soul Mates thing. It
                                              looks to me more like he plagiarized, or paraphrased about it (adding
                                              his own spin as well, under the guise of Eck Masters, etc.). But hey,
                                              Eckankar is not a cult and it's against spiritual law to push one's
                                              beliefs on another :) If you don't believe me just read the FAQ section
                                              on Eckankar's web site. Look for the question: Is Eckankar a cult?
                                              >
                                              > ***
                                              >
                                              > There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book, Dialogues With The
                                              Master (1970), called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.
                                              >
                                              > Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness (first published in
                                              1913?) - and compare the text with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to
                                              Paul Twitchell in Dialogues With The Master.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up
                                              >
                                              >
                                              http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNomad.pdf
                                              >
                                              > ***
                                              >
                                              > Remember that controversial subject of Soul Mates which appeared
                                              in Paul Twitche;ll's earlier books (I thought it was TTF, but here is
                                              something in DWTM)?
                                              >
                                              > Ali Nomad:
                                              >
                                              > Each and every SOUL, therefore, has its spiritual counterpart--its
                                              "other half," with which it unites on the spiritual plane, when the
                                              time comes for attainment of immortality.
                                              >
                                              > Lord Sohang:
                                              >
                                              > "Each and every Soul, therefore, in the lower worlds has its
                                              spiritual counterpart - its other half with which it unites on the
                                              spiritual plane, when the time comes for the attainment of the highest
                                              goal of the world of Brahm and that counterpart is the ECK Spirit."
                                              (DWTM p. 176)
                                              >
                                              >
                                              https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!searchin/alt.religion.eckankar/soul$20mates|sort:date/alt.religion.eckankar/9_e16rhw3gA/3VmvQQ811QsJ
                                              >
                                              > Now of course it depends on who Paul Twitchell is plagiarizing, as
                                              the information can vary. It can even appear contradictory. Example:
                                              >
                                              > [...] But unless the union has already been made in heaven through
                                              pure love, the physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness,
                                              for like all true sacraments it must be entered into and registered
                                              upon all planes. (p. 220)
                                              > The Law of Divine Love will bring to each Soul its true marriage,
                                              a union in perfect purity on all planes. This according to the one
                                              life-theory is of course impossible for all; but since reincarnation is
                                              a fact, the Soul, through repeated experiences, learns to follow its
                                              Divine Guidance, hence will ultimately find its true mate. But they can
                                              be spiritually as well as physically married to their mates only when
                                              the old accounts of both have been balanced and the old complications
                                              set up through the mistakes of the past have been worked out. [... .].
                                              (p. 221)
                                              >
                                              > The Voice Of Isis And Realms Of The Living Dead, by Harriett
                                              Augusta Curtiss
                                              >
                                              >
                                              http://archive.org/stream/TheVoiceOfIsis2ndEdition/CurtissFhAndHaTheVoiceOfIsis2ndEdition_djvu.txt
                                              >
                                              > Rebazar Tarzs in DWTM:
                                              >
                                              > "Now for the part of union between man and woman. Unless this
                                              union has been made on the higher planes through pure thought, the
                                              physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness, for like all
                                              true sacraments it must be entered into and registered upon all planes.
                                              > "The law of divine love will bring to each Soul Its true marriage
                                              and union in perfect purity on all planes. This true marriage is that
                                              of Soul with the ECK - the polarization of each Soul - not two Souls or
                                              man and woman coming together. And, as it is, each Soul will be guided
                                              through repeated experience by divine guidance until It finds this true
                                              love, the love of ECK through the Mahanta. You can be spiritually as
                                              well as physically married to a mate only when the old accounts of both
                                              have been balanced, and old complications set up through mistakes of
                                              the past have been worked out. (p. 115)
                                              >
                                              > (My guess is that someone revised the original DWTM manuscript
                                              since the ECK (all caps) trademark didn't come about until 1968 and the
                                              Mahanta term didn't come into vogue until 1969; whereas the DWTM
                                              manuscript was reportedly written in 1956!)
                                              >
                                              > Now I remember (I think it was in The Tiger's Fang, Or was it The
                                              Eck-Vidya?) some Soul Mates controversy in Eckankar history where I
                                              believe Harold Klemp and Eckankar had to "correct" what Paul Twitchell
                                              earlier wrote. It was no longer about two people coming together, but a
                                              person finding (in so many words) their own "higher self".
                                              >
                                              > I haven't finished checking all the references to Soul Mates in
                                              all of Paul's books, so don't just go on what I quoted from DWTM.
                                              >
                                              > ***
                                              >
                                              > Btw, my Yahoo has been bouncing since Nov. 28 so I've been out of
                                              the loop since then and hadn't received any posts via email. Just now
                                              are catching up.
                                              >
                                              > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
                                              "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > Hello Non eckchains and All,
                                              > > The Soulmate theory
                                              > > phenomena is an interesting
                                              > > spiritual perspective
                                              > > and is, actually, unlimited
                                              > > by conventional New Age
                                              > > thought. Eckankar (PT)
                                              > > reinvented it with a
                                              > > Twin-Soul perspective.
                                              > > This is interesting, but
                                              > > IMO it shouldn't be limited
                                              > > to or by PT's "Twin" Soul
                                              > > view and a single pairing
                                              > > only.
                                              > >
                                              > > Thus, the connection that
                                              > > some/many Souls have with
                                              > > one another (IMO) s/b referred
                                              > > to in the plural. Thus, Soulmates
                                              > > is more than one pairing.
                                              > > Unfortunately, for Eckists,
                                              > > Klemp has them locked into
                                              > > a "Twin" concept when there
                                              > > are Triplets and many more!
                                              > > This phenomena can be
                                              > > a special connection/attraction
                                              > > with lifelong friends, as well,
                                              > > and not always be with sexual
                                              > > partners.
                                              > >
                                              > > As far as Klemp's fraud
                                              > > and his "frownish and fakish"
                                              > > H.I.'s, well, that's to be
                                              > > expected when they emulate
                                              > > HK's own behaviour via clues
                                              > > with the way the EK hierarchy
                                              > > is run or the way in which
                                              > > he speaks/refers to Joan and/
                                              > > or tells his stories.
                                              > >
                                              > > With Klemp there's a lack
                                              > > of forgiveness, compassion,
                                              > > and empathy. These are
                                              > > missing from Klemp's own
                                              > > perspectives in his own life
                                              > > stories.
                                              > >
                                              > > It's easy for him to judge
                                              > > others and point out flaws
                                              > > or to add "insight" and to
                                              > > do EK tweaks on the letters
                                              > > sent to him. And, that's
                                              > > what Klemp does when
                                              > > he "writes" in his hermit
                                              > > batty cave.
                                              > >
                                              > > Thus, many of HK's RESAs
                                              > > emulate his lack of empathy,
                                              > > compassion, and forgiveness.
                                              > > They talk a lot about "love"
                                              > > but when it comes to the
                                              > > business/spiritual side of
                                              > > Eckankar and the "Guidelines,"
                                              > > as set forth by HK via the
                                              > > ESC, there is not much room
                                              > > leftover for the byproducts
                                              > > of love.
                                              > >
                                              > > Look at the way the Higher
                                              > > initiations are handed out.
                                              > > There are always strings
                                              > > attached and it has more
                                              > > to do with "Outer" posturing
                                              > > and faking it with physical
                                              > > requirements. What is said
                                              > > or isn't said to the RESA
                                              > > or done as a volunteer,
                                              > > than with anything else
                                              > > or with one's visible goodness,
                                              > > has more importance in
                                              > > deciding who gets a pink
                                              > > slip. It's not love for God.
                                              > > Long-time Eckists who
                                              > > are loyal and loving and
                                              > > are very nice people are
                                              > > excluded from becoming
                                              > > H.I.s because they haven't
                                              > > jumped through enough
                                              > > physical hoops of training,
                                              > > retraining, volunteering, etc.
                                              > >
                                              > > Or, maybe they didn't seem
                                              > > like a 'take charge" leader
                                              > > or have a college education
                                              > > and/or were high profile
                                              > > professionals. It's amazing
                                              > > how petty RESAs can be,
                                              > > and these people are the
                                              > > "righthand" of Klemp.
                                              > >
                                              > > In truth, many people who
                                              > > left Eckankar did so out of
                                              > > frustration caused via neglect
                                              > > and unloving behavior towards
                                              > > them. Once you've become
                                              > > a member their main goal
                                              > > has been achieved. From
                                              > > there they dangle the carrot
                                              > > for the higher initiations
                                              > > and, now, make it very
                                              > > difficult to achieve the 7th.
                                              > > Eckists need to become
                                              > > ESAs to become RESAs
                                              > > and unless you're already
                                              > > an ESA it's, now, much
                                              > > more difficult to achieve.
                                              > > And, for a 6th ESA to get
                                              > > the 7th they, usually, need
                                              > > to become a RESA.
                                              > >
                                              > > Thus, Klemp slowed-down
                                              > > Initiations in 1985 due to
                                              > > Darwin making 500 new
                                              > > 5ths before leaving office.
                                              > > So, more that 25 years later
                                              > > what is Klemp's excuse for
                                              > > not making more H.I.s and
                                              > > for not expanding the "outer"
                                              > > initiations and their numbers?
                                              > >
                                              > > It's actually a simple/obvious
                                              > > explanation. Klemp is selfish.
                                              > >
                                              > > Klemp's lack of empathy,
                                              > > compassion, forgiveness and
                                              > > real, true love for his fellow
                                              > > eckists, and the trickle-down
                                              > > effect within the EK Hierarchy,
                                              > > is why Eckankar and ECKists
                                              > > are broken and lost. Their
                                              > > delusional faith and fellowship
                                              > > (it's a numbers game) is
                                              > > what they cling to as do
                                              > > all religionists. Yet, as with
                                              > > all religionists, their faith
                                              > > has the only chosen ones
                                              > > who have been gifted with
                                              > > special insight into God
                                              > > (or whatever name they use).
                                              > > EK is simply more of the same
                                              > > but tweaked to fit a special
                                              > > New Age/Metaphysical mindset.
                                              > > It's the Easy Way until those,
                                              > > now, with less than 30 plus
                                              > > years want a 6th or 7th
                                              > > initiation.
                                              > >
                                              > > Prometheus
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > "Non" eckchains wrote:
                                              > > I agree with a lot of what you have said here. I don't quite
                                              get the Soulmate
                                              > > though. I have been met with mostly great difficulty in
                                              actualizing this, even
                                              > > though it sounds quite nice. I am open to experiencing this,
                                              yet I am also
                                              > > naturally intuitive and also he who questions a lot and
                                              enjoys experimenting and
                                              > > investigating. Most people I meet are into holding tight to
                                              their beliefs and
                                              > > don't like being around someone like me, if I am just being
                                              myself. For some
                                              > > reason I ruffle feathers so maybe that means I need to stay
                                              away from certain
                                              > > Birds. :) I don't know the answer.
                                              > >
                                              > > As far as the sound current. My experience has been dreams of
                                              beautiful music
                                              > > sometimes, but also just feeling. Not everyone is musical.
                                              The sound current and
                                              > > light may actually be too limiting. It is based on our two
                                              most used human
                                              > > senses, seeing and hearing. There is so much more richness
                                              involved. We are
                                              > > lacking in our sense of smell and there are other senses that
                                              other animals know
                                              > > and experience that make us look like idiots sometimes.
                                              Humans are very arrogant
                                              > > because of our superior ability to manipulate our
                                              environment, something that if
                                              > > unchecked can and does cause great havoc, destruction and
                                              killing just to kill.
                                              > >
                                              > > Feeling and intuition is very under rated. Feelings allow us
                                              to have compassion
                                              > > and empathy. That is a vibration I wish there was more of.
                                              People don't like it,
                                              > > because it also means that we may have to relate to the pain
                                              of another, or to
                                              > > our own pain. People are too hardened IMHO. At the same time,
                                              bless the ones who
                                              > > act out of compassion to advocate and fight those who are
                                              indifferent to at
                                              > > least living with some level of a little empathy. I think
                                              they have compassion
                                              > > in them, it is just repressed, and imo is always pushing to
                                              express. I dare say,
                                              > > that even klemp and his HI's are so frownish and fakish,
                                              because that is how you
                                              > > repress feelings and natural compassion. It is harder for
                                              humans, because we are
                                              > > more self-aware. Native American life often at least had
                                              sacred rituals for
                                              > > killing to eat. We are lost..... Light and sound meditations
                                              may just be a
                                              > > distraction and limiting us from our Whole Being. We cannot
                                              cut off a part of
                                              > > ourselves and Be our Whole Being, imo.
                                              > >
                                              > > Non ; )
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > <prometheus wrote:
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Hello Tyson, Russ, and All,
                                              > > > I believe that religious myth
                                              > > > was created to explain away
                                              > > > the phenomenal, and that
                                              > > > religion was created in order
                                              > > > to control the masses and,
                                              > > > thus, use this undertaking
                                              > > > for money, power, greed,
                                              > > > status and other self-benefits
                                              > > > for the hierarchies.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > The Blue Light/Blue Star?
                                              > > > The human mind/brain
                                              > > > functions similarly and
                                              > > > when attention is placed
                                              > > > upon subjects this produces
                                              > > > chemical and electrical
                                              > > > reactions. There are even
                                              > > > mixed but similar responses
                                              > > > to unconscious stimuli.
                                              > > > But many people realize
                                              > > > all of this but tend to
                                              > > > forget it when seeking
                                              > > > "spiritual" answers.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > People should not have
                                              > > > faith in the words of
                                              > > > others. People should
                                              > > > No Longer give others
                                              > > > 'the benefit of the doubt.'
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Yes, we can look at what
                                              > > > principles they are sharing
                                              > > > in order to help us to
                                              > > > achieve a greater realization
                                              > > > but we should not limit
                                              > > > ourselves from going
                                              > > > beyond the realizations
                                              > > > and achievements in
                                              > > > higher consciousness
                                              > > > of those we view as
                                              > > > ideals/icons.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Thus, the concept of
                                              > > > "Master" needs to be
                                              > > > revised and eliminated.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > When the lessons have
                                              > > > been taught, via real
                                              > > > world examples of
                                              > > > living, it then becomes
                                              > > > our responsibility
                                              > > > to demonstrate what
                                              > > > we have learned as
                                              > > > it pertains to our
                                              > > > own unique individual
                                              > > > personality and
                                              > > > circumstances. We
                                              > > > move-on and into
                                              > > > our own unrestricted
                                              > > > conscious awareness.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > IMHO- Jesus, and not
                                              > > > always his apostles,
                                              > > > taught some really
                                              > > > advanced concepts.
                                              > > > Too advanced for
                                              > > > most of us today!
                                              > > >
                                              > > > I'll never forget this
                                              > > > one Fung Fu episode
                                              > > > where Cain ran into
                                              > > > some religious fanatics
                                              > > > who would not defend
                                              > > > themselves and would
                                              > > > turn the other cheek.
                                              > > > Cain showed them that
                                              > > > there was a third response.
                                              > > > Instead of becoming
                                              > > > a victim of violence,
                                              > > > or responding with
                                              > > > violence Cain stopped/
                                              > > > blocked the violence
                                              > > > i.e. punch or object
                                              > > > and redirected its
                                              > > > intended path.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Anyway, I've heard
                                              > > > sounds when first
                                              > > > starting to mediate
                                              > > > via TM. Everyone
                                              > > > heard these tones.
                                              > > > Generally the mind
                                              > > > blocks out these
                                              > > > background noises
                                              > > > until it quiets down
                                              > > > and empties itself.
                                              > > > Actually, one can
                                              > > > follow these sounds
                                              > > > without placing
                                              > > > too much attention
                                              > > > on them. That's the
                                              > > > trick. One doesn't
                                              > > > place attention or
                                              > > > attachment on any
                                              > > > thought, imaginary
                                              > > > vision or sound no
                                              > > > matter how pleasant.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Eventually, this will
                                              > > > produce other by-
                                              > > > products of awareness
                                              > > > such as contentment.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > I have to say that one
                                              > > > must discover their
                                              > > > own reality. Don't take
                                              > > > my word for anything.
                                              > > > Divine Awareness is
                                              > > > an individual experience
                                              > > > and not a group path.
                                              > > > I called it "Divine Awareness"
                                              > > > in oder to give this
                                              > > > private and personal
                                              > > > Discovery by Soul a
                                              > > > special designation.
                                              > > > By referring to the
                                              > > > uniqueness of the
                                              > > > individual experience
                                              > > > as 'Soul' does likewise.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > I will have to say that
                                              > > > I've had help in validating
                                              > > > that there is a Reality
                                              > > > beyond the scientific
                                              > > > explanations and that
                                              > > > of religious dogma.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > I can only say that
                                              > > > the Soulmate concept
                                              > > > (IMO) is real in that
                                              > > > it helps these Souls
                                              > > > to form a special
                                              > > > bond in order to merge
                                              > > > and harmonize their
                                              > > > vibrations and to better
                                              > > > 'tune-in' to glimpses
                                              > > > of, perhaps, our true
                                              > > > origins and potential
                                              > > > but also of this Here
                                              > > > and Now.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Prometheus
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > "Tyson" wrote:
                                              > > > The sound current, bani,
                                              > > > shabd or nam is real.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > There is no religion that
                                              > > > can claim it as there own.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > What is fiction is the
                                              > > > dependance on a master
                                              > > > that is created by religions
                                              > > > of the light and sound.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Only one initiation is
                                              > > > important.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Yet faith in a past master
                                              > > > such as Christ, Krishna
                                              > > > or Guru Nanak is just as
                                              > > > valid.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > There is no mahanta.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > The blue star is no
                                              > > > other than a manifestation
                                              > > > created by a meeting
                                              > > > between the holy spirit
                                              > > > and ones higher self
                                              > > > (soul).
                                              > > >
                                              > > > For Harold to claim to
                                              > > > be the blue star is a
                                              > > > way to snare the gullible.
                                              > > > He is no more the blue
                                              > > > star than the second
                                              > > > coming of christ.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > I had heard the rushing
                                              > > > wind as a member of
                                              > > > eckankar so I wrongly
                                              > > > believed that this path
                                              > > > must be true.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > It was meditation on
                                              > > > the third eye that brought
                                              > > > the rushing wind, not
                                              > > > Klemp.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Eckankar was taken from
                                              > > > the Sihk word Ek Ong Kar.
                                              > > > Ek Ong Kar means one
                                              > > > divine energy permeates
                                              > > > all things.
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Russ wrote:
                                              > > > > I was reading an article by Dodie xxxx, and she is
                                              ex eckist, interviewing
                                              > > > David Lane and three eckists in the San Diego area.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > > One of the interviewees, a man made a statement,
                                              paraphrasing here, that in
                                              > > > his mind it doesn't matter where the writings of
                                              eckankar come from because he
                                              > > > is finding the truth of eckankar in his life. That it's
                                              more important to have
                                              > > a
                                              > > > connection with the sound current.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > I used to have that exact point of view. What
                                              changed for me?
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > One thing I used to feel good about when talking
                                              about eck was this idea
                                              > > that
                                              > > > it has been around forever. And I thought eckankar was
                                              synonymous with the
                                              > > sound
                                              > > > current.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > It created a dissonance in my mind which I ignored
                                              for a decade, after
                                              > > > becoming a 5th. I could no longer ignore this
                                              dissonance, caused by the
                                              > > > plaigarism and ultimately this had led to me dropping
                                              out of eckankar.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > I have a question concerning the sound current. I
                                              experience this sound,
                                              > > > sometimes. It wasn't a part of my experience previous to
                                              my study of eck.
                                              > > Maybe
                                              > > > it isn't important, where you read about it, if you take
                                              it as a principle and
                                              > > > work with it.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Do you folks think the sound current is bogus?
                                              Delusions?
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > This is an interesting point because I am
                                              interested in truth...
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > BTW, documenting the plaigarisms is in my opinion,
                                              good work. But this by
                                              > > > itself doesn't go to the underlying issues concerning
                                              the question, "What is
                                              > > the
                                              > > > Truth regarding the idea of the sound current as a way
                                              of connection with the
                                              > > > Divine??"
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Thanks,
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Russ
                                              > >
                                              >
                                            • prometheus_973
                                              Hello Etznab and All, Yes, it makes me suspicious of any religious dogma that degrades women. Just how spiritual and advanced can it really be? It s Not!
                                              Message 22 of 22 , Dec 10, 2012
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Hello Etznab and All,
                                                Yes, it makes me suspicious
                                                of any religious dogma that
                                                degrades women. Just how
                                                "spiritual" and advanced
                                                can it really be? It's Not!

                                                But, since the Boy's Clubs
                                                of the World seem to run
                                                things it's no wonder this
                                                anti-female crap is written
                                                in all religious dogma.

                                                Sant Mat, which Twitchell
                                                "borrowed from" was no
                                                more advanced than all
                                                other "spiritual" sources
                                                that Twitchell used to
                                                "Compile" his male chauvinist
                                                dogma. Those male/female
                                                atoms and positive/negative
                                                batteries where the LEM
                                                has to be a male because
                                                women can't handle the
                                                Rod of Power is pure fiction.
                                                This is such a stupid ekplanation
                                                that you have to be brain-
                                                washed to believe it. BTW-
                                                I wonder what the "Rod"
                                                really symbolizes?

                                                Anyway, this is one more
                                                topic of PT's, and of Klemp's,
                                                that doesn't get closer
                                                scrutiny nor is it ever discussed
                                                using logic, common sense,
                                                or intellect. Actually, it's
                                                never discussed because
                                                there's no point right or
                                                wrong, the case is closed!
                                                Remember, HK has said,
                                                "Eckankar is a hierarchy
                                                and not a Democracy." But,
                                                isn't our government both
                                                a hierarchy and a democracy?

                                                Since Klemp claims to be
                                                imperfect and points out
                                                that Twitchell exaggerated
                                                shouldn't PT's Male requirement
                                                for the LEM position be revisited,
                                                investigated, and explained?

                                                Are there any EKists who
                                                are doctors, engineers or
                                                scientists? I'd like them to
                                                explain how the neg/pos
                                                male/female battery thing
                                                works with the physical body
                                                and why one needs to be
                                                a male in order to be the
                                                LEM in the Lower Planes,
                                                especially, here on earth!

                                                Prometheus

                                                etznab wrote:
                                                I find it suspect whenever the female is downgraded in comparison with
                                                the male. In The Tiger's Fang (according to Lord Alakh Lok?):

                                                "There is more to this law than just the issues which have been given
                                                here. No Soul can enter into the worlds above the plane of Sat Lok
                                                without being complete within itself - without having both completed
                                                the cycle of balance and entering into the oneness with its other self,
                                                and both gaining the traits of the other .... and in the end, as it is
                                                said, becoming the male or original Soul as God first put on earth.
                                                This Soul had the qualities which God wanted, but could not be
                                                manifested unless Soul was split into two particular particles, the
                                                negative and the positive, for both to develop." (pp. 85-86)

                                                My comments:

                                                As it is said? Lord Alakh Lok says "as it is said"?

                                                I wonder, Did Paul Twitchell come up with this stuff from Radhasoami
                                                doctrine? Quoting:

                                                "The higher centres in a female form are less capable of being
                                                developed than in a male form. All the centres of Pind, Brahmand and
                                                Dayal Desh do exist in a woman as they do in man. But the centres
                                                higher than Sunn or Daswan Dwar cannot ordinarily be awakened in a
                                                woman. Hence, the highest point to which the spirit or Surat in a
                                                female can rise, is the Daswan Dwar. For higher ascension, the same
                                                Surat or spirit will have to take birth as a man, and perform the
                                                spiritual exercises for awakening higher centres. [... .]"

                                                http://www.rsfaith.org/images/stories/RSFBooks/English/Holy_Epistols_Part_5/holy\
                                                _epistols_part_5_1.html

                                                Both versions on the subject are highly suspect, IMO. I think people
                                                probably butchered an older form of a story that subsequently took on
                                                Frankenstein form.

                                                I think there are two more sections about Soul Mates that I came across
                                                recently, both from Dialogues With The Master, at least one version of
                                                which appears to be from appropriated text.



                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                From: harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...>


                                                I agree. But I also think that most New Age thinking is absurd because
                                                it is baseless and without evidence. The soul concept cannot be proven,
                                                let alone the soulmate idea.

                                                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer
                                                <jepfeiffer@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > I can't view the concept of a soulmate being two parts of a whole
                                                no matter where it comes from. I don't believe any of us are half of
                                                a whole. Maybe Paul needed that concept as a reason for why he fell
                                                for Gail.ÂÂ
                                                >
                                                etznab wrote:

                                                >
                                                > I don't believe Paul Twitchell reinvented the Soul Mates thing. It
                                                looks to me more like he plagiarized, or paraphrased about it (adding
                                                his own spin as well, under the guise of Eck Masters, etc.). But hey,
                                                Eckankar is not a cult and it's against spiritual law to push one's
                                                beliefs on another :) If you don't believe me just read the FAQ section
                                                on Eckankar's web site. Look for the question: Is Eckankar a cult?
                                                >
                                                > ***
                                                >
                                                > There is a chapter in Paul Twitchell's book, Dialogues With The
                                                Master (1970), called: THE LORD SOHANG SPEAKS.
                                                >
                                                > Go to Ali Nomad's book - Cosmic Consciousness (first published in
                                                1913?) - and compare the text with what Lord Sohang reportedly spoke to
                                                Paul Twitchell in Dialogues With The Master.
                                                >
                                                >
                                                http://www.archive.org/stream/cosmicconsciousn00nomaiala#page/2/mode/2up
                                                >
                                                >
                                                http://www.consciouslivingfoundation.org/ebooks/13/CLF-CosmicConsciousness-AliNo\
                                                mad.pdf
                                                >
                                                > ***
                                                >
                                                > Remember that controversial subject of Soul Mates which appeared
                                                in Paul Twitche;ll's earlier books (I thought it was TTF, but here is
                                                something in DWTM)?
                                                >
                                                > Ali Nomad:
                                                >
                                                > Each and every SOUL, therefore, has its spiritual counterpart--its
                                                "other half," with which it unites on the spiritual plane, when the
                                                time comes for attainment of immortality.
                                                >
                                                > Lord Sohang:
                                                >
                                                > "Each and every Soul, therefore, in the lower worlds has its
                                                spiritual counterpart - its other half with which it unites on the
                                                spiritual plane, when the time comes for the attainment of the highest
                                                goal of the world of Brahm and that counterpart is the ECK Spirit."
                                                (DWTM p. 176)
                                                >
                                                >
                                                https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!searchin/alt.religion.eck\
                                                ankar/soul$20mates|sort:date/alt.religion.eckankar/9_e16rhw3gA/3VmvQQ811QsJ
                                                >
                                                > Now of course it depends on who Paul Twitchell is plagiarizing, as
                                                the information can vary. It can even appear contradictory. Example:
                                                >
                                                > [...] But unless the union has already been made in heaven through
                                                pure love, the physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness,
                                                for like all true sacraments it must be entered into and registered
                                                upon all planes. (p. 220)

                                                > The Law of Divine Love will bring to each Soul its true marriage,
                                                a union in perfect purity on all planes. This according to the one
                                                life-theory is of course impossible for all; but since reincarnation is
                                                a fact, the Soul, through repeated experiences, learns to follow its
                                                Divine Guidance, hence will ultimately find its true mate. But they can
                                                be spiritually as well as physically married to their mates only when
                                                the old accounts of both have been balanced and the old complications
                                                set up through the mistakes of the past have been worked out. [... .].
                                                (p. 221)
                                                >
                                                > The Voice Of Isis And Realms Of The Living Dead, by Harriett
                                                Augusta Curtiss
                                                >
                                                >
                                                http://archive.org/stream/TheVoiceOfIsis2ndEdition/CurtissFhAndHaTheVoiceOfIsis2\
                                                ndEdition_djvu.txt
                                                >
                                                > Rebazar Tarzs in DWTM:
                                                >
                                                > "Now for the part of union between man and woman. Unless this
                                                union has been made on the higher planes through pure thought, the
                                                physical union cannot bring about peace and happiness, for like all
                                                true sacraments it must be entered into and registered upon all planes.
                                                > "The law of divine love will bring to each Soul Its true marriage
                                                and union in perfect purity on all planes. This true marriage is that
                                                of Soul with the ECK - the polarization of each Soul - not two Souls or
                                                man and woman coming together. And, as it is, each Soul will be guided
                                                through repeated experience by divine guidance until It finds this true
                                                love, the love of ECK through the Mahanta. You can be spiritually as
                                                well as physically married to a mate only when the old accounts of both
                                                have been balanced, and old complications set up through mistakes of
                                                the past have been worked out. (p. 115)
                                                >
                                                > (My guess is that someone revised the original DWTM manuscript
                                                since the ECK (all caps) trademark didn't come about until 1968 and the
                                                Mahanta term didn't come into vogue until 1969; whereas the DWTM
                                                manuscript was reportedly written in 1956!)
                                                >
                                                > Now I remember (I think it was in The Tiger's Fang, Or was it The
                                                Eck-Vidya?) some Soul Mates controversy in Eckankar history where I
                                                believe Harold Klemp and Eckankar had to "correct" what Paul Twitchell
                                                earlier wrote. It was no longer about two people coming together, but a
                                                person finding (in so many words) their own "higher self".
                                                >
                                                > I haven't finished checking all the references to Soul Mates in
                                                all of Paul's books, so don't just go on what I quoted from DWTM.
                                                >
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