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Re: The Five Passions of the Mind vs The Five Virtures

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  • prometheus_973
    Hi Leigh, Thanks for posting the Five Wisdoms and their source. They are very interesting and insightful! Prometheus ... The passions and virtues are one of
    Message 1 of 9 , Oct 1, 2005
      Hi Leigh,
      Thanks for posting the Five Wisdoms and their source. They are very
      interesting and insightful!

      Prometheus

      lgrif wrote:
      > Hi Prometheus:
      The passions and virtues are one of the reasons why
      Eckankar fails. It's all pillar or post with no moderation. The Five
      Wisdoms on the other hand are moderation and they do work.

      The Five wisdoms are;

      the Wisdom that like a mirror reflects perceptions,

      the Wisdom acquired by Contemplation, which apprehends the
      fundamental identity in all things,

      the Wisdom that discerns, differentiates and classifies things
      according to their particular properties,

      the Wisdom applied to works, assuring their success,

      the universal Wisdom which penetrates everything, detects the
      elements of which things are formed,

      and then the elements which constitute each of those first detected
      elements, and so ad infinitum, and by the virtue of this process
      destroys the illusion of the permanent reality of form and
      personality.

      If you can't pick up on them anywhere else, you can find these in
      the novel Mipam by Lama Yongden, published in 1938. Now in reprint
      by Shambala, I think. Lama Yongden was an interesting guy, and
      the "adopted son" of Alexandra David-Neel. *Quite* an interesting
      woman.

      Leigh
      >
      > -- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
      > <prometheus_973@y...> wrote:
      > > Hello All,
      > >
      > > I thought that I would point out the differences between the
      > > Radasoami/Sant Mat version and the Eckankar version.

      > >The Path of the Masters by Julian P. Johnson
      > >Page 362 Passions and their Remedies (Virtures):
      > >
      > >
      > > KAM (LUST)...*[Shil]...Chastity, continence
      > >
      > > KRODH (ANGER)...[Kshama]...Forgiveness, tolerance
      > >
      > > LOBH (GREED)...[Santosha]...Contentment
      > >
      > > MOH (ATTACHMENT)...*[Viveka]...Discrimination AND
      > > [Vairag]...Detachment
      > >
      > > AHANKAR (EGO; PRIDE)...[Dinta]...Humility
      > >
      > > **************************************************************
      > > Page 73 Eckankar Lexicon
      > > The Five Passions of the Mind...The Five Virtures:
      > >
      > >
      > > KAMA (LUST)...*[VIVEKA]...DISCRIMINATION
      > >
      > > KRODHA (ANGER)...[KSHAMA]...forgiveness, tolerance
      > >
      > > LOBHA (GREED)...[SANTOSHA]...contentment
      > >
      > > MOHA (ATTACHMENT)...[VAIRAG]...DETACHMENT
      > >
      > > AHANKARA (VANITY)...[DINTA]...HUMILITY
      > >
      > > **************************************************************
      > > So, Twitchell changed the Virtues or Remedies for LUST and
      ATTACHMENT! He took the first Remedy (of two) listed for Attachment,
      [Viveka] Discrimination, from "Path" and switched it with the remedy
      or virture of *[Shil] Chastity and continence! [SHIL] and CHASTITY
      and CONTINENCE were completely eliminated!

      > > This is why Eckists find it so difficult to recall and match up
      the Five Passions to the Five Virtues! But, isn't it also strange
      that the negative passions are recalled easier by Eckists than the
      positive virtures!

      > > One can also see where Twitchell added the letter "A" to the
      Hindi words for the passions, but kept the Hindi words for the
      virtues.

      > > Prometheus
    • truthdecider
      Hey Jamie, I sent you some info on Graham. Due to the nature of the info, I sent it to you privately at your yahoo email address that s listed for you on here
      Message 2 of 9 , Oct 2, 2005
        Hey Jamie,

        I sent you some info on Graham. Due to the nature of the info, I
        sent it to you privately at your yahoo email address that's listed for
        you on here on the ESA board. Did you receive the info?

        Truthdecider


        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "jjamie1977"
        <jjamie1977@y...> wrote:
        > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
        > <mishmisha9@y...> wrote:
        > > Okay, here's a thought/question. In analyzing and considering what HK
        > > has written in his latest Wisdom Note (LOL), do you think he has
        > > exhibited attachment or detachment in the way he treats eckists and
        > > or former eckists who have gone astray of the eck teachings? Does
        > > HK's actions and words demonstrate the Five Passions of the Mind or
        > > the Five Virtues?
        > >
        > > Mish
        > >
        > > p.s. to Jamie: Graham Forsythe has posted on TruthSeeker, HCS,
        > > Eckankar Truth and A.R.E. as FS, Graham or Graham Forsythe. He's easy
        > > to find on those sites. I'm not sure of other places he has posted or
        > > pseudonyms he uses. Hope this helps.
        >
        > --------------------------------------------------
        > thanks so much, mish. this is exactly the info i needed. i've tried and
        > tried to find a copy (even an e copy) of "in the many hands of god". no
        > luck whatsoever.
        >
        > jamie...
        > ----------------------------------------
      • prometheus_973
        Hi All, Twitchell created Eckankar based on the teachings of other religions that Eckankar views as 4th (Mental) Plane religions. I was talking to an Eckist
        Message 3 of 9 , Oct 6, 2005
          Hi All,

          Twitchell created Eckankar based on the teachings of other religions
          that Eckankar views as 4th (Mental) Plane religions.

          I was talking to an Eckist friend a few months ago and she told me
          that she didn't have a problem with Twitchell's plagiarisms and with
          him borrowing things from other religions. She said that we all
          borrow and use things from various sources and Twitchell was no
          different. Interesting way to create a religion, but what made a
          hodge-podge of these sources into the "highest teaching" in all of
          the universes of SUGMAD? LOL!

          I started thinking about this recently and thought about how
          Eckankar views Jesus and his "Father" (God). Jesus was supposedly
          the incarnation of God who resides on either the *2nd Astral or 4th
          Mental Plane. Whereas... Twitchell, Gross, and Klemp claimed to be
          the Mahanta incarnations of SUGMAD and 14th Plane or higher!
          However, why are so many of the Eck teachings based on 4th Plane
          religions when Klemp claims to be so much "higher" in consciousness?
          [*Eckankar views some religions that it judges emotional (Astral) as
          being 2nd Plane religions.]

          The Five Passions of the Mind and Five Virtures are altered for the
          western spiritual seeker and "borrowed" by Twitchell for use as part
          of the Eckankar teachings. This is just one example, of duplication,
          that Twitchell used to create Eckankar. The spin that is put on this
          is that these other religions got this from the Eck or from
          Eckankar. But, this is just more of the flip-flop spin and deception
          that Twitchell began to use and that Klemp has continued.

          This example shows just one of the Fourth Plane connections that
          Eckankar has with Radasoami and Sant Mat.

          "The Path of the Masters" by Julian P. Johnson
          Page 362 Passions and their Remedies (Virtures):


          KAM (LUST)...*[Shil]...Chastity, continence

          KRODH (ANGER)...[Kshama]...Forgiveness, tolerance

          LOBH (GREED)...[Santosha]...Contentment

          MOH (ATTACHMENT)...*[Viveka]...Discrimination AND
          [Vairag]...Detachment

          AHANKAR (EGO; PRIDE)...[Dinta]...Humility

          **************************************************************
          Page 73 Eckankar Lexicon
          The Five Passions of the Mind...The Five Virtures:


          KAMA (LUST)...*[VIVEKA]...DISCRIMINATION

          KRODHA (ANGER)...[KSHAMA]...forgiveness, tolerance

          LOBHA (GREED)...[SANTOSHA]...contentment

          MOHA (ATTACHMENT)...[VAIRAG]...DETACHMENT

          AHANKARA (VANITY)...[DINTA]...HUMILITY

          *Twitchell changed the remedy or virture for LUST to fit the western
          seeker. Twitch took the first of two remedies for ATTACHMENT, which
          was DISCRIMINATION, and uses this for the virture for LUST. Chastity
          and continence were completely eliminated!

          Prometheus
          p.s. Isn't it interesting that in the 1966 Illuminated Way Letters
          that Twitchell never mentions Rebazar Tarzs or the Mahanta. Yet,
          Twitchell is supposedly the L.E.M. and at least a 12th Initiate! Who
          initiated him? He was still corresponding with Kirpal Singh during
          this time. Actually, the Mahanta was never mentioned by P.T. until
          1969!
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