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Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Digest Number 2017

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  • Sharon
    Gawd, this is a looooong digest! First of all - Jerry Mulvin.
    Message 1 of 2 , Nov 20, 2012
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      Gawd, this is a looooong digest!

      First of all - Jerry Mulvin.  See:
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eckankartruth/files/AFTER%20ECKANKAR%20-%20WHAT%3F%3F/Jerry%20Mulvin/

      Yahoo only allows members to access group files; I'd rather have everything at "eckankartruth" open to the public.  

      Stefan - there's absolutely no anonymity on the internet.  I used to tell ET's members that they'd be anonymous and no one but me would know anyone's real names - until I learned that you can see message headers and track people down.  Others have tried to "screen" people in their groups but people lie, and eckists *do* get in.  Silly, isn't it?  

      They've calmed down a bit since back in the 90's when I started.  You wouldn't believe how far the HI Eckthugs went in their efforts to silence me & get me off the internet!!   Everything from contacting my ISPs to breaking & entering to threatening my family.  

      Anyway, Stefan - check out your book's listing at Amazon.  Did you make any changes from the 2003 version?  I ask because I might be interested in reading it but not until cheap used ones are available, like "Lost Slipper of Soul".  And is "Rest Points in Eternity" the same book as....whoops, can't find that page again.  

      Anyway, don't get your knickers in a knot over this.  Wherever I go, I click on links and sometimes end up with a dozen or more tabs open and it can be pretty overwhelming....

      If you're going thru "stuff" - well, actually I started out helping people thru the psychological trauma of leaving.  For some it's easy, but others get severe cases of post-traumatic stress disorder and need professional help, but the problem there is that there are few professionals who know or understand about leaving a cult.  

      I've compared it to being in a perfect marriage with a perfect spouse, and coming home early one day and finding them in bed having sex with a dog.  

      I've got some links to healing sites at ET, and I'm sure Prometheus has some here too.  I got a lot of help on the internet when I got out.  Years back I used to get dozens of emails from traumatized newbie exes every week, don't know how I did all that typing, TG it's slowed down because I can't do it anymore.  

      Anyway, Twitch probably wouldn't last long if he started up now.  Thanks to the internet, he'd get caught & outed very quickly.

      Oh - Prometheus, yeah I agree about those awesome academic credentials, but they don't translate to internet street-savvy.  BTW, don't knock card readings - I used to do it years ago, still get people asking for readings and my natal charts.  I was damned good!  But I never could learn which card meant what, I'd just sort of wave my hand over them and "tune in".  

      Anyway, Stefan - believe me, I know how hard it can be.  One thing I'd suggest through long experience that might help you, seriously, is - resign from membership.  Write Klemp a letter and say it's b.s., you quit, to remove you from the computer, and take your initiations & put them where the sun don't shine.  Rip your Official Cult ID Card into little pieces and burn it.  

      Your mind, heart, and soul have been imprisoned way too long.  

      Gotta go!

      Hugs,

      Sharon

      --- On Sat, 11/17/12, EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

      From: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Digest Number 2017
      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Saturday, November 17, 2012, 9:01 AM

      There are 5 messages in this issue.

      Topics in this digest:

      1a. Re: "The Karma Seeker"   
          From: prometheus_973

      2a. Fw: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: "The Karma Seeker"   
          From: Stefan Meyer
      2b. Fw: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: "The Karma Seeker"   
          From: prometheus_973
      2c. Re: "The Karma Seeker"   
          From: prometheus_973
      2d. Re: "The Karma Seeker"   
          From: prometheus_973


      Messages
      ________________________________________________________________________
      1a. Re: "The Karma Seeker"
          Posted by: "prometheus_973" prometheus_973@... prometheus_973
          Date: Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:27 pm ((PST))

      Hello Sharon and All,
      S.M. sent me a message
      and wanted to have his
      name removed so that
      he couldn't be traced,
      but mentioning the book's
      title doesn't require
      much sleuthing in order
      to discover the author's
      real name (Google and
      discover his Karma-Seeker
      site... and he's on FB too!).

      Anyway, I removed one
      of his posts and was trying
      to edit his name out of
      another but I must
      have done something
      wrong and his entire
      post was removed.

      Did he send you something
      too? Maybe he's fishing
      for customers because
      the EK pond has been
      fished out?

      BTW- Someone asked to
      be able to join ESA and
      said they had nice things
      to say about Jerry Mulvin.
      I approved their membership
      out of curiosity, but they
      will be monitored until
      I can determine if their
      status should be changed.

      It's funny that Stefan does
      "Card Reading" via phone,
      yet, claims it's "not psychic."
      Apparently the spiel is that
      the technique he uses is
      "spiritual" or maybe involves
      "Quantum Physics." It kind
      of reminded of the TV show
      The Mentalist where Patrick
      Jane states that the psychic
      doesn't exist and that selling
      it is just a con/scam and
      that all he actually does
      to 'know things' is to "pay
      attention."

      I didn't check to see that
      Stefan had mentioned E-cult
      in his links. For someone
      who has the educational
      credentials that he has it
      makes one wonder about
      his inability to connect-
      the-dots and cover his
      tracks. Being an H.I. for
      a long period of time
      either makes one more
      skeptical or more delusional
      via denial.

      Of course, one could wonder
      about the same in regards to
      Klemp. Except, he's in it for
      the Prestige, Money, and Power.

      ECKists should ask: Why isn't
      the ALL KNOWING Mahanta
      Aware of his wayward H.I.s?
      Otherwise HK would do something
      about the problem like he did
      with others right? Maybe Klemp
      is only "aware" when someone
      informs him via a snail-mail
      letter like Ford did.

      The real reason for Klemp's
      inattention to what his H.I.'s
      are doing is that he's a fake
      prophet and is in it for profit!

      But, what's going on with
      HK's Secret RESA Police?
      Why hasn't this guy been
      ferreted out, detained, 
      questioned, suspended
      from Satsang duties and
      reported to the ESC? Local
      H.I.s via Internet or 'phone
      tree' need to be warned
      as well! Who's the RESA
      now for Massachusetts?
      Stefan is in Boston right?

      Prometheus   

      "Sharon" brighttigress wrote:
      So, another eckanborg crawls out of the woodwork, selling a book and card
      readings, much like the Twitchster when he started out - so, Stefan, what are
      you going to call your "path" when you get enough followers? Or don't you have
      a name for it yet?

      So, you're keeping your membership and HI "status" - understandable, like Jerry
      Mulvin to Ford Johnson, ekult is a good source of new members. Are you afraid
      to lose those initiations and return to the consciousness of a rock? And wander
      for eternity in astral hell until you come crawling back to "the master"?

      You don't want ECKANKAR mentioned in book reviews at Amazon? Why not? You've
      got ECKANKAR at the top of your links list at your karmaseeker website.

      It's so sad what 20 years in ekult does to people. I doubt very much if you
      "get" what's wrong with this whole picture, with what you're doing.

      I left ekult because honesty and integrity are important to me. Two qualities
      which are lacking in ekult as an organization, and in so many of its members,
      especially those who've been in it for many years.

      "a far-reaching guidebook to contemporary spirituality" ???????

      I think not.


      Sharon


      prometheus wrote:
      >
      > Hello Z and All,
      > Yes, it is my understanding
      > that he joined the E-cult
      > in 1971.
      >
      > [sorry for the reposts]
      >
      > Was "The Lost Slipper
      > of Soul" printed by
      > Eckankar?
      >
      > BTW-It seems that the
      > "Kip" character is the
      > alter ego of the author.
      > So, perhaps, HK isn't
      > all that impressive
      > of a "Master/Mahanta"
      > for this H.I., and I'm
      > thinking that he no
      > longer buys into Twit's
      > plagiarisms and fiction.
      >
      > IMO, Based upon the
      > story line, many of us
      > former long-time EK
      > leaders could have
      > written a similar book.
      > And, one could easily
      > substitute "Truth Seeker"
      > for "Karma Seeker," and
      > "ECKankar" for "League."
      >
      > FYI: I Googled his
      > Karma-Seeker website
      > where he gives "Card
      > Readings" via phone.
      > So, why would a person
      > still be an H.I. If he
      > does Card Readings?
      >
      > Here's some info on the
      > book from Amazon.
      >
      >
      > BOOK DESCRIPTION:
      >
      > "What is the true test of spirituality?
      > Is it loyalty to a master, group, or
      > teaching? Or is it having the courage
      > to act on one's deepest convictions,
      > even in the face of disapproval and
      > sanction?
      >
      > This is the question that confronts
      > Kip Morgan.
      >
      > Kip is a karma seeker—an individual
      > committed to testing himself by means
      > of his own choices. For such people,
      > who are engaged in an experiment
      > with unknown forces, there is no way
      > to prove that they are fit to discover
      > what they seek except by doing it.
      >
      > As a young man, Kip joins the League,
      > one of the burgeoning new age spiritual
      > groups of the late 1960s and early 1970s.
      > He learns the fundamentals of its teachings,
      > which involve cultivating inner experiences
      > through contemplation, dreams, and out-
      > of-body experiences.
      >
      > The high point of his experience comes
      > with his initiation into the League's inner
      > circle, a transcendent event that significantly
      > alters his view of life. It doesn't take long,
      > however, before he discovers how fragile
      > this experience is, and how difficult it is
      > to hold on to his new state of consciousness.
      >
      > Kip embarks on a quest that takes him
      > beyond the confines of the League.
      >
      > Eventually, he comes to question the
      > group's claim to exclusivity, and to see
      > it as merely a portal to a universal spiritual
      > path.
      >
      > As he becomes less reliant on the League
      > and its members for support and guidance,
      > he is torn between his personal vision of
      > truth and his fear of spiritual failure. This
      > puts him on a collision course with the League
      > President, the group's ultimate spiritual authority.
      >
      > The Karma Seeker is a far-reaching guidebook
      > to contemporary spirituality. It presents the
      > reader with the essential paradigm of the modern
      > spiritual path—its highs and lows, its rewards
      > and pitfalls. It illustrates how individuals who
      > embark on such a path are tested in the areas
      > of their greatest deficiency in order to build up
      > their spiritual strength, all so that they may
      > eventually become active participants in their
      > own destiny." [end]
      >
      >
      >
      > "zephrendhun" wrote:
      > >
      > > Dear Prom and all,
      > >
      Interesting thing about this book is that its original title was
      "The Lost Slipper of Soul " and I have that version. I also know
      the author who is a fine enough chap but I think Stefan is still
      an H.I. I believe he is an H.I. 'on the fence', so to speak. Many
      H.I.'s remain in Eckrakorn, hoping that Harry the Klempster
      will soon retire or die. Then they can see if they will become
      the next LEM or if Harry's replacement is ok, then they will
      probably continue with their delusion that Eckrakorn is a true
      spiritual path and not just the cult it is. Its tough being an
      individual and losing all of the friends and acquantences one
      encounters in the E-cult. But their true reason for excommunicating
      a long time freind is that they really have their doubts about
      this crap's truth as well. Besides after being a none E-cultist
      for a while, I have formed some significant friendships that
      really don't give a s**t what my religious views are. The road
      is lonely sometimes on one own path, but there are no lies or
      delusions. Divine Source loves spiritual renegades, just check
      out Jesus the Christ. Enuff said. Peace and chicken grease!
      > >
      > > Zephrendhun






      Messages in this topic (4)
      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________
      2a. Fw: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: "The Karma Seeker"
          Posted by: "Stefan Meyer" stefangmeyer@... lostslipperofsoul
          Date: Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:40 pm ((PST))

      Hi, All

      I have been glancing at these posts from time to time. I really hate the thought of having to "defend" myself on this forum. I certainly wouldn't want to get into some extended debate that went back and forth ad infinitum. But I guess I'll take one stab at replying to the general tenor of some of these posts, and then I'll retire from the fray.

      The reason I contacted this forum about my book was twofold. First of all--yes, I'm trying to promote the book. I don't think that wanting to promote a book is something to be ashamed of. All authors want to promote their books. If you write a book and then have no desire to promote it, I doubt that anyone's ever going to read it. So self-promotion comes with the territory of writing, even more these days when traditional book publishers are becoming marginalized, and authors often have to assume complete responsibility for their own marketing.

      The other reason was that a few weeks ago I just happened to land on this forum, and I read a post that honestly touched me. I can't find the post anymore, but basically the writer was saying that, as someone who had left Eckankar, she felt it had taken years for her to heal from the emotional scars. And I could really relate to that because I'm going through the same thing. Doesn't matter whether I'm still a member or not. I don't see this as a matter of just ECKists on one side, and those who have left Eckankar on the other. There are all sorts of people who are on the sidelines, still trying to work out these issues for themselves, and they don't really have anywhere to turn or anyone to talk to. This could be a forum for healing, but I guess some people are so pissed off as a result of their experiences that they jump to conclusions and make all sorts of accusations. I must have dark ulterior motives. I'm angling to become the next LEM, or start my own cult. No, not really. I've just written a book and I'd like to find some people interested in reading it. Period.

      Regarding some specific comments: 1. I don't have Eckankar on my card reading website. I have some quotes from Paul Twitchell (at least I assume they're from Paul--maybe someone will tell me they're plagiarized. That's ok. I just like the quotes). 2. The card reading thing isn't psychic at all. It's based on a metaphysical system that anyone can learn for themselves. All you have to know is how to navigate a few charts and how to interpret the symbolic language of the cards. If I were psychic, I'd be more than happy to advertise my abilities, but I'm not. 3. Yes, it doesn't require a whole lot of sleuthing to discover my name. So I guess I'm really bad at being anonymous, though I tried to be. I originally wrote the book under the name of the main character to distance myself from the narrative, but it didn't work. Purely from a marketing standpoint, I realized that I had to "own" what I'd written. Am I happier that the previous post was erased? Yes, and thanks to the moderator for that courtesy. Does that make me a coward? I guess so. But I'm still here, making my voice heard. And I would hope that people would be a little more generous and understand that it's difficult for people like me to work through our conflicts. We may have to write a book to do it. And even writing the book might not be enough. We might have to get up and defend it. And that could take more courage than even they think they have. And maybe that deserves at least some measure of good will.

      That's pretty much all I have to say. Go in peace.


      ----- Original Message -----
        From: prometheus_973
        To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, November 16, 2012 3:27 PM
        Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: "The Karma Seeker"


         
        Hello Sharon and All,
        S.M. sent me a message
        and wanted to have his
        name removed so that
        he couldn't be traced,
        but mentioning the book's
        title doesn't require
        much sleuthing in order
        to discover the author's
        real name (Google and
        discover his Karma-Seeker
        site... and he's on FB too!).

        Anyway, I removed one
        of his posts and was trying
        to edit his name out of
        another but I must
        have done something
        wrong and his entire
        post was removed.

        Did he send you something
        too? Maybe he's fishing
        for customers because
        the EK pond has been
        fished out?

        BTW- Someone asked to
        be able to join ESA and
        said they had nice things
        to say about Jerry Mulvin.
        I approved their membership
        out of curiosity, but they
        will be monitored until
        I can determine if their
        status should be changed.

        It's funny that Stefan does
        "Card Reading" via phone,
        yet, claims it's "not psychic."
        Apparently the spiel is that
        the technique he uses is
        "spiritual" or maybe involves
        "Quantum Physics." It kind
        of reminded of the TV show
        The Mentalist where Patrick
        Jane states that the psychic
        doesn't exist and that selling
        it is just a con/scam and
        that all he actually does
        to 'know things' is to "pay
        attention."

        I didn't check to see that
        Stefan had mentioned E-cult
        in his links. For someone
        who has the educational
        credentials that he has it
        makes one wonder about
        his inability to connect-
        the-dots and cover his
        tracks. Being an H.I. for
        a long period of time
        either makes one more
        skeptical or more delusional
        via denial.

        Of course, one could wonder
        about the same in regards to
        Klemp. Except, he's in it for
        the Prestige, Money, and Power.

        ECKists should ask: Why isn't
        the ALL KNOWING Mahanta
        Aware of his wayward H.I.s?
        Otherwise HK would do something
        about the problem like he did
        with others right? Maybe Klemp
        is only "aware" when someone
        informs him via a snail-mail
        letter like Ford did.

        The real reason for Klemp's
        inattention to what his H.I.'s
        are doing is that he's a fake
        prophet and is in it for profit!

        But, what's going on with
        HK's Secret RESA Police?
        Why hasn't this guy been
        ferreted out, detained,
        questioned, suspended
        from Satsang duties and
        reported to the ESC? Local
        H.I.s via Internet or 'phone
        tree' need to be warned
        as well! Who's the RESA
        now for Massachusetts?
        Stefan is in Boston right?

        Prometheus

        "Sharon" brighttigress wrote:
        So, another eckanborg crawls out of the woodwork, selling a book and card
        readings, much like the Twitchster when he started out - so, Stefan, what are
        you going to call your "path" when you get enough followers? Or don't you have
        a name for it yet?

        So, you're keeping your membership and HI "status" - understandable, like Jerry
        Mulvin to Ford Johnson, ekult is a good source of new members. Are you afraid
        to lose those initiations and return to the consciousness of a rock? And wander
        for eternity in astral hell until you come crawling back to "the master"?

        You don't want ECKANKAR mentioned in book reviews at Amazon? Why not? You've
        got ECKANKAR at the top of your links list at your karmaseeker website.

        It's so sad what 20 years in ekult does to people. I doubt very much if you
        "get" what's wrong with this whole picture, with what you're doing.

        I left ekult because honesty and integrity are important to me. Two qualities
        which are lacking in ekult as an organization, and in so many of its members,
        especially those who've been in it for many years.

        "a far-reaching guidebook to contemporary spirituality" ???????

        I think not.

        Sharon

        prometheus wrote:
        >
        > Hello Z and All,
        > Yes, it is my understanding
        > that he joined the E-cult
        > in 1971.
        >
        > [sorry for the reposts]
        >
        > Was "The Lost Slipper
        > of Soul" printed by
        > Eckankar?
        >
        > BTW-It seems that the
        > "Kip" character is the
        > alter ego of the author.
        > So, perhaps, HK isn't
        > all that impressive
        > of a "Master/Mahanta"
        > for this H.I., and I'm
        > thinking that he no
        > longer buys into Twit's
        > plagiarisms and fiction.
        >
        > IMO, Based upon the
        > story line, many of us
        > former long-time EK
        > leaders could have
        > written a similar book.
        > And, one could easily
        > substitute "Truth Seeker"
        > for "Karma Seeker," and
        > "ECKankar" for "League."
        >
        > FYI: I Googled his
        > Karma-Seeker website
        > where he gives "Card
        > Readings" via phone.
        > So, why would a person
        > still be an H.I. If he
        > does Card Readings?
        >
        > Here's some info on the
        > book from Amazon.
        >
        >
        > BOOK DESCRIPTION:
        >
        > "What is the true test of spirituality?
        > Is it loyalty to a master, group, or
        > teaching? Or is it having the courage
        > to act on one's deepest convictions,
        > even in the face of disapproval and
        > sanction?
        >
        > This is the question that confronts
        > Kip Morgan.
        >
        > Kip is a karma seeker-an individual
        > committed to testing himself by means
        > of his own choices. For such people,
        > who are engaged in an experiment
        > with unknown forces, there is no way
        > to prove that they are fit to discover
        > what they seek except by doing it.
        >
        > As a young man, Kip joins the League,
        > one of the burgeoning new age spiritual
        > groups of the late 1960s and early 1970s.
        > He learns the fundamentals of its teachings,
        > which involve cultivating inner experiences
        > through contemplation, dreams, and out-
        > of-body experiences.
        >
        > The high point of his experience comes
        > with his initiation into the League's inner
        > circle, a transcendent event that significantly
        > alters his view of life. It doesn't take long,
        > however, before he discovers how fragile
        > this experience is, and how difficult it is
        > to hold on to his new state of consciousness.
        >
        > Kip embarks on a quest that takes him
        > beyond the confines of the League.
        >
        > Eventually, he comes to question the
        > group's claim to exclusivity, and to see
        > it as merely a portal to a universal spiritual
        > path.
        >
        > As he becomes less reliant on the League
        > and its members for support and guidance,
        > he is torn between his personal vision of
        > truth and his fear of spiritual failure. This
        > puts him on a collision course with the League
        > President, the group's ultimate spiritual authority.
        >
        > The Karma Seeker is a far-reaching guidebook
        > to contemporary spirituality. It presents the
        > reader with the essential paradigm of the modern
        > spiritual path-its highs and lows, its rewards
        > and pitfalls. It illustrates how individuals who
        > embark on such a path are tested in the areas
        > of their greatest deficiency in order to build up
        > their spiritual strength, all so that they may
        > eventually become active participants in their
        > own destiny." [end]
        >
        >
        >
        > "zephrendhun" wrote:
        > >
        > > Dear Prom and all,
        > >
        Interesting thing about this book is that its original title was
        "The Lost Slipper of Soul " and I have that version. I also know
        the author who is a fine enough chap but I think Stefan is still
        an H.I. I believe he is an H.I. 'on the fence', so to speak. Many
        H.I.'s remain in Eckrakorn, hoping that Harry the Klempster
        will soon retire or die. Then they can see if they will become
        the next LEM or if Harry's replacement is ok, then they will
        probably continue with their delusion that Eckrakorn is a true
        spiritual path and not just the cult it is. Its tough being an
        individual and losing all of the friends and acquantences one
        encounters in the E-cult. But their true reason for excommunicating
        a long time freind is that they really have their doubts about
        this crap's truth as well. Besides after being a none E-cultist
        for a while, I have formed some significant friendships that
        really don't give a s**t what my religious views are. The road
        is lonely sometimes on one own path, but there are no lies or
        delusions. Divine Source loves spiritual renegades, just check
        out Jesus the Christ. Enuff said. Peace and chicken grease!
        > >
        > > Zephrendhun



       



      Messages in this topic (4)
      ________________________________________________________________________
      2b. Fw: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: "The Karma Seeker"
          Posted by: "prometheus_973" prometheus_973@... prometheus_973
          Date: Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:09 pm ((PST))

      Hello Stefan and All,
      I guess that the problem
      that people are having
      is Why is it that you still
      want to remain an H.I.
      when you don't see HK
      as the Mahanta nor see
      Eckankar as the end all
      to spiritual truth.

      As far as the mumbo-
      jumbo with the "card
      reading' if it's not psychic,
      which doesn't exist, then,
      it's a con/scam. Or,
      maybe you've bought
      into the delusion as
      much as you've, previously,
      bought into Eckankar. I'm
      sure that astrology works
      just as well.

      Have you ever read about
      the Amazing Randy?
      Google him! He's debunked
      all sorts of scams similar
      to your "Card Reading."

      But, yes, many of us have
      interesting stories involving
      our spiritual search to find
      Truth. And many of us have
      been involved with EK leadership
      positions and the hierarchy.

      Why not just come out of
      the anti-HK closet and let
      Klemp censor you like he
      did with Ford Johnson? Maybe
      he'll demote you but so what?
      IMO-The best thing would
      be to have Klemp excommunicate
      you!

      Prometheus   


      Stefan Meyer wrote:
      Hi, All

      I have been glancing at these posts from time to time. I really hate the thought of having to "defend" myself on this forum. I certainly wouldn't want to get into some extended debate that went back and forth ad infinitum. But I guess I'll take one stab at replying to the general tenor of some of these posts, and then I'll retire from the fray.

      The reason I contacted this forum about my book was twofold. First of all--yes, I'm trying to promote the book. I don't think that wanting to promote a book is something to be ashamed of. All authors want to promote their books. If you write a book and then have no desire to promote it, I doubt that anyone's ever going to read it. So self-promotion comes with the territory of writing, even more these days when traditional book publishers are becoming marginalized, and authors often have to assume complete responsibility for their own marketing.

      The other reason was that a few weeks ago I just happened to land on this forum, and I read a post that honestly touched me. I can't find the post anymore, but basically the writer was saying that, as someone who had left Eckankar, she felt it had taken years for her to heal from the emotional scars. And I could really relate to that because I'm going through the same thing. Doesn't matter whether I'm still a member or not. I don't see this as a matter of just ECKists on one side, and those who have left Eckankar on the other. There are all sorts of people who are on the sidelines, still trying to work out these issues for themselves, and they don't really have anywhere to turn or anyone to talk to. This could be a forum for healing, but I guess some people are so pissed off as a result of their experiences that they jump to conclusions and make all sorts of accusations. I must have dark ulterior motives. I'm angling to become the next LEM, or start my own cult. No, not really. I've just written a book and I'd like to find some people interested in reading it. Period.

      Regarding some specific comments: 1. I don't have Eckankar on my card reading website. I have some quotes from Paul Twitchell (at least I assume they're from Paul--maybe someone will tell me they're plagiarized. That's ok. I just like the quotes). 2. The card reading thing isn't psychic at all. It's based on a metaphysical system that anyone can learn for themselves. All you have to know is how to navigate a few charts and how to interpret the symbolic language of the cards. If I were psychic, I'd be more than happy to advertise my abilities, but I'm not. 3. Yes, it doesn't require a whole lot of sleuthing to discover my name. So I guess I'm really bad at being anonymous, though I tried to be. I originally wrote the book under the name of the main character to distance myself from the narrative, but it didn't work. Purely from a marketing standpoint, I realized that I had to "own" what I'd written. Am I happier that the previous post was erased? Yes, and thanks to the moderator for that courtesy. Does that make me a coward? I guess so. But I'm still here, making my voice heard. And I would hope that people would be a little more generous and understand that it's difficult for people like me to work through our conflicts. We may have to write a book to do it. And even writing the book might not be enough. We might have to get up and defend it. And that could take more courage than even they think they have. And maybe that deserves at least some measure of good will.

      That's pretty much all I have to say. Go in peace.


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: prometheus_973
      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Friday, November 16, 2012 3:27 PM
      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: "The Karma Seeker"


      Hello Sharon and All,
      S.M. sent me a message
      and wanted to have his
      name removed so that
      he couldn't be traced,
      but mentioning the book's
      title doesn't require
      much sleuthing in order
      to discover the author's
      real name (Google and
      discover his Karma-Seeker
      site... and he's on FB too!).

      Anyway, I removed one
      of his posts and was trying
      to edit his name out of
      another but I must
      have done something
      wrong and his entire
      post was removed.

      Did he send you something
      too? Maybe he's fishing
      for customers because
      the EK pond has been
      fished out?

      BTW- Someone asked to
      be able to join ESA and
      said they had nice things
      to say about Jerry Mulvin.
      I approved their membership
      out of curiosity, but they
      will be monitored until
      I can determine if their
      status should be changed.

      It's funny that Stefan does
      "Card Reading" via phone,
      yet, claims it's "not psychic."
      Apparently the spiel is that
      the technique he uses is
      "spiritual" or maybe involves
      "Quantum Physics." It kind
      of reminded of the TV show
      The Mentalist where Patrick
      Jane states that the psychic
      doesn't exist and that selling
      it is just a con/scam and
      that all he actually does
      to 'know things' is to "pay
      attention."

      I didn't check to see that
      Stefan had mentioned E-cult
      in his links. For someone
      who has the educational
      credentials that he has it
      makes one wonder about
      his inability to connect-
      the-dots and cover his
      tracks. Being an H.I. for
      a long period of time
      either makes one more
      skeptical or more delusional
      via denial.

      Of course, one could wonder
      about the same in regards to
      Klemp. Except, he's in it for
      the Prestige, Money, and Power.

      ECKists should ask: Why isn't
      the ALL KNOWING Mahanta
      Aware of his wayward H.I.s?
      Otherwise HK would do something
      about the problem like he did
      with others right? Maybe Klemp
      is only "aware" when someone
      informs him via a snail-mail
      letter like Ford did.

      The real reason for Klemp's
      inattention to what his H.I.'s
      are doing is that he's a fake
      prophet and is in it for profit!

      But, what's going on with
      HK's Secret RESA Police?
      Why hasn't this guy been
      ferreted out, detained,
      questioned, suspended
      from Satsang duties and
      reported to the ESC? Local
      H.I.s via Internet or 'phone
      tree' need to be warned
      as well! Who's the RESA
      now for Massachusetts?
      Stefan is in Boston right?

      Prometheus

      "Sharon" brighttigress wrote:
      So, another eckanborg crawls out of the woodwork, selling a book and card
      readings, much like the Twitchster when he started out - so, Stefan, what are
      you going to call your "path" when you get enough followers? Or don't you have
      a name for it yet?

      So, you're keeping your membership and HI "status" - understandable, like Jerry
      Mulvin to Ford Johnson, ekult is a good source of new members. Are you afraid
      to lose those initiations and return to the consciousness of a rock? And wander
      for eternity in astral hell until you come crawling back to "the master"?

      You don't want ECKANKAR mentioned in book reviews at Amazon? Why not? You've
      got ECKANKAR at the top of your links list at your karmaseeker website.

      It's so sad what 20 years in ekult does to people. I doubt very much if you
      "get" what's wrong with this whole picture, with what you're doing.

      I left ekult because honesty and integrity are important to me. Two qualities
      which are lacking in ekult as an organization, and in so many of its members,
      especially those who've been in it for many years.

      "a far-reaching guidebook to contemporary spirituality" ???????

      I think not.

      Sharon

      prometheus wrote:
      >
      > Hello Z and All,
      > Yes, it is my understanding
      > that he joined the E-cult
      > in 1971.
      >
      > [sorry for the reposts]
      >
      > Was "The Lost Slipper
      > of Soul" printed by
      > Eckankar?
      >
      > BTW-It seems that the
      > "Kip" character is the
      > alter ego of the author.
      > So, perhaps, HK isn't
      > all that impressive
      > of a "Master/Mahanta"
      > for this H.I., and I'm
      > thinking that he no
      > longer buys into Twit's
      > plagiarisms and fiction.
      >
      > IMO, Based upon the
      > story line, many of us
      > former long-time EK
      > leaders could have
      > written a similar book.
      > And, one could easily
      > substitute "Truth Seeker"
      > for "Karma Seeker," and
      > "ECKankar" for "League."
      >
      > FYI: I Googled his
      > Karma-Seeker website
      > where he gives "Card
      > Readings" via phone.
      > So, why would a person
      > still be an H.I. If he
      > does Card Readings?
      >
      > Here's some info on the
      > book from Amazon.
      >
      >
      > BOOK DESCRIPTION:
      >
      > "What is the true test of spirituality?
      > Is it loyalty to a master, group, or
      > teaching? Or is it having the courage
      > to act on one's deepest convictions,
      > even in the face of disapproval and
      > sanction?
      >
      > This is the question that confronts
      > Kip Morgan.
      >
      > Kip is a karma seeker—an individual
      > committed to testing himself by means
      > of his own choices. For such people,
      > who are engaged in an experiment
      > with unknown forces, there is no way
      > to prove that they are fit to discover
      > what they seek except by doing it.
      >
      > As a young man, Kip joins the League,
      > one of the burgeoning new age spiritual
      > groups of the late 1960s and early 1970s.
      > He learns the fundamentals of its teachings,
      > which involve cultivating inner experiences
      > through contemplation, dreams, and out-
      > of-body experiences.
      >
      > The high point of his experience comes
      > with his initiation into the League's inner
      > circle, a transcendent event that significantly
      > alters his view of life. It doesn't take long,
      > however, before he discovers how fragile
      > this experience is, and how difficult it is
      > to hold on to his new state of consciousness.
      >
      > Kip embarks on a quest that takes him
      > beyond the confines of the League.
      >
      > Eventually, he comes to question the
      > group's claim to exclusivity, and to see
      > it as merely a portal to a universal spiritual
      > path.
      >
      > As he becomes less reliant on the League
      > and its members for support and guidance,
      > he is torn between his personal vision of
      > truth and his fear of spiritual failure. This
      > puts him on a collision course with the League
      > President, the group's ultimate spiritual authority.
      >
      > The Karma Seeker is a far-reaching guidebook
      > to contemporary spirituality. It presents the
      > reader with the essential paradigm of the modern
      > spiritual path—its highs and lows, its rewards
      > and pitfalls. It illustrates how individuals who
      > embark on such a path are tested in the areas
      > of their greatest deficiency in order to build up
      > their spiritual strength, all so that they may
      > eventually become active participants in their
      > own destiny." [end]
      >
      >
      >
      > "zephrendhun" wrote:
      > >
      > > Dear Prom and all,
      > >
      Interesting thing about this book is that its original title was
      "The Lost Slipper of Soul " and I have that version. I also know
      the author who is a fine enough chap but I think Stefan is still
      an H.I. I believe he is an H.I. 'on the fence', so to speak. Many
      H.I.'s remain in Eckrakorn, hoping that Harry the Klempster
      will soon retire or die. Then they can see if they will become
      the next LEM or if Harry's replacement is ok, then they will
      probably continue with their delusion that Eckrakorn is a true
      spiritual path and not just the cult it is. Its tough being an
      individual and losing all of the friends and acquantences one
      encounters in the E-cult. But their true reason for excommunicating
      a long time freind is that they really have their doubts about
      this crap's truth as well. Besides after being a none E-cultist
      for a while, I have formed some significant friendships that
      really don't give a s**t what my religious views are. The road
      is lonely sometimes on one own path, but there are no lies or
      delusions. Divine Source loves spiritual renegades, just check
      out Jesus the Christ. Enuff said. Peace and chicken grease!
      > >
      > > Zephrendhun






      Messages in this topic (4)
      ________________________________________________________________________
      2c. Re: "The Karma Seeker"
          Posted by: "prometheus_973" prometheus_973@... prometheus_973
          Date: Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:12 pm ((PST))

      BTW***Here's some info from Stefan's
      Karma-Seeker website. Notice the
      reference to Eckankar that was claimed
      isn't there and, btw, the top of the page
      refers to the card reading technique as
      "The Ancient Science of Cards." Does
      that remind anyone of "The Ancient
      Science of Soul Travel?" And, aren't
      "Astro Cards" the same as Astral Cards?

      However, if Eckankar can make
      God an everyday reality of your life
      why are the rest of these "Spiritual
      Resources" needed and listed?

      One more thing. Who are these
      "ancients" that are supposed to
      have so much "wisdom" coming
      from a deck of 52 cards? It's
      more B.S. and con that's become
      a vocation just like with Twit,
      DG, and HK.

      I can see the need to survive
      and to rationalize by using
      what one knows, but there
      comes a point in time when
      a person must be honest and
      ethical with everyone, especially,
      ourselves. Otherwise the line
      becomes distorted and gets
      crossed more easily as time
      goes by.

      Prometheus



      ***
      Card Science
      ***
      Astro Cards

      Astro Cards book list and contact information
      ***
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      Dedicated to providing paths to greater awareness, understanding relationships, and avenues of action to help you shape and change your life and destiny

      Seven Thunders Publishing
      Home of Robert Camp, author of Destiny Cards and Love Cards



      Spiritual Resources

      ***
      Eckankar: Religion of the Light and Sound of God
      The purpose of Eckankar is to make God an everyday reality in your life.

      Stefan Meyer: "Regarding some specific comments:
      1. I don't have Eckankar on my card reading website."
      ***
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      "Stefan Meyer"  wrote:
      >
      > Hi, All
      >
      > I have been glancing at these posts from time to time. I really hate the thought of having to "defend" myself on this forum. I certainly wouldn't want to get into some extended debate that went back and forth ad infinitum. But I guess I'll take one stab at replying to the general tenor of some of these posts, and then I'll retire from the fray.
      >
      > The reason I contacted this forum about my book was twofold. First of all--yes, I'm trying to promote the book. I don't think that wanting to promote a book is something to be ashamed of. All authors want to promote their books. If you write a book and then have no desire to promote it, I doubt that anyone's ever going to read it. So self-promotion comes with the territory of writing, even more these days when traditional book publishers are becoming marginalized, and authors often have to assume complete responsibility for their own marketing.
      >
      > The other reason was that a few weeks ago I just happened to land on this forum, and I read a post that honestly touched me. I can't find the post anymore, but basically the writer was saying that, as someone who had left Eckankar, she felt it had taken years for her to heal from the emotional scars. And I could really relate to that because I'm going through the same thing. Doesn't matter whether I'm still a member or not. I don't see this as a matter of just ECKists on one side, and those who have left Eckankar on the other. There are all sorts of people who are on the sidelines, still trying to work out these issues for themselves, and they don't really have anywhere to turn or anyone to talk to. This could be a forum for healing, but I guess some people are so pissed off as a result of their experiences that they jump to conclusions and make all sorts of accusations. I must have dark ulterior motives. I'm angling to become the next LEM, or start my own cult. No, not really. I've just written a book and I'd like to find some people interested in reading it. Period.

      ***
      Regarding some specific comments:
      1. I don't have Eckankar on my card reading website.
      ***

      I have some quotes from Paul Twitchell (at least I assume they're from Paul--maybe someone will tell me they're plagiarized. That's ok. I just like the quotes). 2. The card reading thing isn't psychic at all. It's based on a metaphysical system that anyone can learn for themselves. All you have to know is how to navigate a few charts and how to interpret the symbolic language of the cards. If I were psychic, I'd be more than happy to advertise my abilities, but I'm not. 3. Yes, it doesn't require a whole lot of sleuthing to discover my name. So I guess I'm really bad at being anonymous, though I tried to be. I originally wrote the book under the name of the main character to distance myself from the narrative, but it didn't work. Purely from a marketing standpoint, I realized that I had to "own" what I'd written. Am I happier that the previous post was erased? Yes, and thanks to the moderator for that courtesy. Does that make me a coward? I guess so. But I'm still here, making my voice heard. And I would hope that people would be a little more generous and understand that it's difficult for people like me to work through our conflicts. We may have to write a book to do it. And even writing the book might not be enough. We might have to get up and defend it. And that could take more courage than even they think they have. And maybe that deserves at least some measure of good will.
      >
      > That's pretty much all I have to say. Go in peace.
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      >   From: prometheus_973
      >   To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      >   Sent: Friday, November 16, 2012 3:27 PM
      >   Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: "The Karma Seeker"
      >
      >
      >     
      >   Hello Sharon and All,
      >   S.M. sent me a message
      >   and wanted to have his
      >   name removed so that
      >   he couldn't be traced,
      >   but mentioning the book's
      >   title doesn't require
      >   much sleuthing in order
      >   to discover the author's
      >   real name (Google and
      >   discover his Karma-Seeker
      >   site... and he's on FB too!).
      >
      >   Anyway, I removed one
      >   of his posts and was trying
      >   to edit his name out of
      >   another but I must
      >   have done something
      >   wrong and his entire
      >   post was removed.
      >
      >   Did he send you something
      >   too? Maybe he's fishing
      >   for customers because
      >   the EK pond has been
      >   fished out?
      >
      >   BTW- Someone asked to
      >   be able to join ESA and
      >   said they had nice things
      >   to say about Jerry Mulvin.
      >   I approved their membership
      >   out of curiosity, but they
      >   will be monitored until
      >   I can determine if their
      >   status should be changed.
      >
      >   It's funny that Stefan does
      >   "Card Reading" via phone,
      >   yet, claims it's "not psychic."
      >   Apparently the spiel is that
      >   the technique he uses is
      >   "spiritual" or maybe involves
      >   "Quantum Physics." It kind
      >   of reminded of the TV show
      >   The Mentalist where Patrick
      >   Jane states that the psychic
      >   doesn't exist and that selling
      >   it is just a con/scam and
      >   that all he actually does
      >   to 'know things' is to "pay
      >   attention."
      >
      >   I didn't check to see that
      >   Stefan had mentioned E-cult
      >   in his links. For someone
      >   who has the educational
      >   credentials that he has it
      >   makes one wonder about
      >   his inability to connect-
      >   the-dots and cover his
      >   tracks. Being an H.I. for
      >   a long period of time
      >   either makes one more
      >   skeptical or more delusional
      >   via denial.
      >
      >   Of course, one could wonder
      >   about the same in regards to
      >   Klemp. Except, he's in it for
      >   the Prestige, Money, and Power.
      >
      >   ECKists should ask: Why isn't
      >   the ALL KNOWING Mahanta
      >   Aware of his wayward H.I.s?
      >   Otherwise HK would do something
      >   about the problem like he did
      >   with others right? Maybe Klemp
      >   is only "aware" when someone
      >   informs him via a snail-mail
      >   letter like Ford did.
      >
      >   The real reason for Klemp's
      >   inattention to what his H.I.'s
      >   are doing is that he's a fake
      >   prophet and is in it for profit!
      >
      >   But, what's going on with
      >   HK's Secret RESA Police?
      >   Why hasn't this guy been
      >   ferreted out, detained,
      >   questioned, suspended
      >   from Satsang duties and
      >   reported to the ESC? Local
      >   H.I.s via Internet or 'phone
      >   tree' need to be warned
      >   as well! Who's the RESA
      >   now for Massachusetts?
      >   Stefan is in Boston right?
      >
      >   Prometheus
      >
      >   "Sharon" brighttigress wrote:
      >   So, another eckanborg crawls out of the woodwork, selling a book and card
      >   readings, much like the Twitchster when he started out - so, Stefan, what are
      >   you going to call your "path" when you get enough followers? Or don't you have
      >   a name for it yet?
      >
      >   So, you're keeping your membership and HI "status" - understandable, like Jerry
      >   Mulvin to Ford Johnson, ekult is a good source of new members. Are you afraid
      >   to lose those initiations and return to the consciousness of a rock? And wander
      >   for eternity in astral hell until you come crawling back to "the master"?
      >
      >   You don't want ECKANKAR mentioned in book reviews at Amazon? Why not? You've
      >   got ECKANKAR at the top of your links list at your karmaseeker website.
      >
      >   It's so sad what 20 years in ekult does to people. I doubt very much if you
      >   "get" what's wrong with this whole picture, with what you're doing.
      >
      >   I left ekult because honesty and integrity are important to me. Two qualities
      >   which are lacking in ekult as an organization, and in so many of its members,
      >   especially those who've been in it for many years.
      >
      >   "a far-reaching guidebook to contemporary spirituality" ???????
      >
      >   I think not.
      >
      >   Sharon
      >
      >   prometheus wrote:
      >   >
      >   > Hello Z and All,
      >   > Yes, it is my understanding
      >   > that he joined the E-cult
      >   > in 1971.
      >   >
      >   > [sorry for the reposts]
      >   >
      >   > Was "The Lost Slipper
      >   > of Soul" printed by
      >   > Eckankar?
      >   >
      >   > BTW-It seems that the
      >   > "Kip" character is the
      >   > alter ego of the author.
      >   > So, perhaps, HK isn't
      >   > all that impressive
      >   > of a "Master/Mahanta"
      >   > for this H.I., and I'm
      >   > thinking that he no
      >   > longer buys into Twit's
      >   > plagiarisms and fiction.
      >   >
      >   > IMO, Based upon the
      >   > story line, many of us
      >   > former long-time EK
      >   > leaders could have
      >   > written a similar book.
      >   > And, one could easily
      >   > substitute "Truth Seeker"
      >   > for "Karma Seeker," and
      >   > "ECKankar" for "League."
      >   >
      >   > FYI: I Googled his
      >   > Karma-Seeker website
      >   > where he gives "Card
      >   > Readings" via phone.
      >   > So, why would a person
      >   > still be an H.I. If he
      >   > does Card Readings?
      >   >
      >   > Here's some info on the
      >   > book from Amazon.
      >   >
      >   >
      >   > BOOK DESCRIPTION:
      >   >
      >   > "What is the true test of spirituality?
      >   > Is it loyalty to a master, group, or
      >   > teaching? Or is it having the courage
      >   > to act on one's deepest convictions,
      >   > even in the face of disapproval and
      >   > sanction?
      >   >
      >   > This is the question that confronts
      >   > Kip Morgan.
      >   >
      >   > Kip is a karma seeker-an individual
      >   > committed to testing himself by means
      >   > of his own choices. For such people,
      >   > who are engaged in an experiment
      >   > with unknown forces, there is no way
      >   > to prove that they are fit to discover
      >   > what they seek except by doing it.
      >   >
      >   > As a young man, Kip joins the League,
      >   > one of the burgeoning new age spiritual
      >   > groups of the late 1960s and early 1970s.
      >   > He learns the fundamentals of its teachings,
      >   > which involve cultivating inner experiences
      >   > through contemplation, dreams, and out-
      >   > of-body experiences.
      >   >
      >   > The high point of his experience comes
      >   > with his initiation into the League's inner
      >   > circle, a transcendent event that significantly
      >   > alters his view of life. It doesn't take long,
      >   > however, before he discovers how fragile
      >   > this experience is, and how difficult it is
      >   > to hold on to his new state of consciousness.
      >   >
      >   > Kip embarks on a quest that takes him
      >   > beyond the confines of the Leagu

      (Message over 64 KB, truncated)
    • prometheus_973
      Hello Sharon and All, I never did card readings but I did do other types of psychic readings, Reiki (type) healing (by phone too), and taught meditation. I
      Message 2 of 2 , Nov 20, 2012
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        Hello Sharon and All,
        I never did card readings
        but I did do other types
        of "psychic" readings,
        Reiki (type) healing
        (by phone too), and
        taught meditation.
        I was taught to do the
        psychic reading techniques
        from a well known foreign
        psychic for over a year.
        At times she would
        have me sit in on
        some of her readings
        and assist her. That
        was prior to Eck of
        course. I will say that
        I never did anything
        for anyone. And, what
        money I charged (for
        meditation classes
        only) was given to my
        friend, because it was
        conducted in her offices,
        and helped her to pay
        her bills. I never took
        money for readings
        nor for healing.....
        There was a 100%
        success rate on the
        healing done, according
        to those that were helped,
        so something seemed
        to be happening, but
        who knows if it was
        suggestion/hypnosis
        or what. I stopped after
        joining Eckankar mostly
        due to the Karma scare.

        Prometheus

        Sharon wrote:
        Gawd, this is a looooong digest!

        First of all - Jerry Mulvin. See:
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eckankartruth/files/AFTER%20ECKANKAR%20-%20WHAT%3F%3F/Jerry%20Mulvin/

        Yahoo only allows members to access group files; I'd rather have everything at "eckankartruth" open to the public.

        Stefan - there's absolutely no anonymity on the internet. I used to tell ET's members that they'd be anonymous and no one but me would know anyone's real names - until I learned that you can see message headers and track people down. Others have tried to "screen" people in their groups but people lie, and eckists *do* get in. Silly, isn't it?

        They've calmed down a bit since back in the 90's when I started. You wouldn't believe how far the HI Eckthugs went in their efforts to silence me & get me off the internet!! Everything from contacting my ISPs to breaking & entering to threatening my family.

        Anyway, Stefan - check out your book's listing at Amazon. Did you make any changes from the 2003 version? I ask because I might be interested in reading it but not until cheap used ones are available, like "Lost Slipper of Soul". And is "Rest Points in Eternity" the same book as....whoops, can't find that page again.

        Anyway, don't get your knickers in a knot over this. Wherever I go, I click on links and sometimes end up with a dozen or more tabs open and it can be pretty overwhelming....

        If you're going thru "stuff" - well, actually I started out helping people thru the psychological trauma of leaving. For some it's easy, but others get severe cases of post-traumatic stress disorder and need professional help, but the problem there is that there are few professionals who know or understand about leaving a cult.

        I've compared it to being in a perfect marriage with a perfect spouse, and coming home early one day and finding them in bed having sex with a dog.

        I've got some links to healing sites at ET, and I'm sure Prometheus has some here too. I got a lot of help on the internet when I got out. Years back I used to get dozens of emails from traumatized newbie exes every week, don't know how I did all that typing, TG it's slowed down because I can't do it anymore.

        Anyway, Twitch probably wouldn't last long if he started up now. Thanks to the internet, he'd get caught & outed very quickly.

        Oh - Prometheus, yeah I agree about those awesome academic credentials, but they don't translate to internet street-savvy. BTW, don't knock card readings - I used to do it years ago, still get people asking for readings and my natal charts. I was damned good! But I never could learn which card meant what, I'd just sort of wave my hand over them and "tune in".

        Anyway, Stefan - believe me, I know how hard it can be. One thing I'd suggest through long experience that might help you, seriously, is - resign from membership. Write Klemp a letter and say it's b.s., you quit, to remove you from the computer, and take your initiations & put them where the sun don't shine. Rip your Official Cult ID Card into little pieces and burn it.

        Your mind, heart, and soul have been imprisoned way too long.

        Gotta go!

        Hugs,

        Sharon
        There are 5 messages in this issue.

        Topics in this digest:

        1a. Re: "The Karma Seeker"
        From: prometheus_973

        2a. Fw: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: "The Karma Seeker"
        From: Stefan Meyer
        2b. Fw: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: "The Karma Seeker"
        From: prometheus_973
        2c. Re: "The Karma Seeker"
        From: prometheus_973
        2d. Re: "The Karma Seeker"
        From: prometheus_973



        Hello Sharon and All,
        S.M. sent me a message
        and wanted to have his
        name removed so that
        he couldn't be traced,
        but mentioning the book's
        title doesn't require
        much sleuthing in order
        to discover the author's
        real name (Google and
        discover his Karma-Seeker
        site... and he's on FB too!).

        Anyway, I removed one
        of his posts and was trying
        to edit his name out of
        another but I must
        have done something
        wrong and his entire
        post was removed.

        Did he send you something
        too? Maybe he's fishing
        for customers because
        the EK pond has been
        fished out?

        BTW- Someone asked to
        be able to join ESA and
        said they had nice things
        to say about Jerry Mulvin.
        I approved their membership
        out of curiosity, but they
        will be monitored until
        I can determine if their
        status should be changed.

        It's funny that Stefan does
        "Card Reading" via phone,
        yet, claims it's "not psychic."
        Apparently the spiel is that
        the technique he uses is
        "spiritual" or maybe involves
        "Quantum Physics." It kind
        of reminded of the TV show
        The Mentalist where Patrick
        Jane states that the psychic
        doesn't exist and that selling
        it is just a con/scam and
        that all he actually does
        to 'know things' is to "pay
        attention."

        I didn't check to see that
        Stefan had mentioned E-cult
        in his links. For someone
        who has the educational
        credentials that he has it
        makes one wonder about
        his inability to connect-
        the-dots and cover his
        tracks. Being an H.I. for
        a long period of time
        either makes one more
        skeptical or more delusional
        via denial.

        Of course, one could wonder
        about the same in regards to
        Klemp. Except, he's in it for
        the Prestige, Money, and Power.

        ECKists should ask: Why isn't
        the ALL KNOWING Mahanta
        Aware of his wayward H.I.s?
        Otherwise HK would do something
        about the problem like he did
        with others right? Maybe Klemp
        is only "aware" when someone
        informs him via a snail-mail
        letter like Ford did.

        The real reason for Klemp's
        inattention to what his H.I.'s
        are doing is that he's a fake
        prophet and is in it for profit!

        But, what's going on with
        HK's Secret RESA Police?
        Why hasn't this guy been
        ferreted out, detained,
        questioned, suspended
        from Satsang duties and
        reported to the ESC? Local
        H.I.s via Internet or 'phone
        tree' need to be warned
        as well! Who's the RESA
        now for Massachusetts?
        Stefan is in Boston right?

        Prometheus

        "Sharon" brighttigress wrote:
        So, another eckanborg crawls out of the woodwork, selling a book and card
        readings, much like the Twitchster when he started out - so, Stefan, what are
        you going to call your "path" when you get enough followers? Or don't you have
        a name for it yet?

        So, you're keeping your membership and HI "status" - understandable, like Jerry
        Mulvin to Ford Johnson, ekult is a good source of new members. Are you afraid
        to lose those initiations and return to the consciousness of a rock? And wander
        for eternity in astral hell until you come crawling back to "the master"?

        You don't want ECKANKAR mentioned in book reviews at Amazon? Why not? You've
        got ECKANKAR at the top of your links list at your karmaseeker website.

        It's so sad what 20 years in ekult does to people. I doubt very much if you
        "get" what's wrong with this whole picture, with what you're doing.

        I left ekult because honesty and integrity are important to me. Two qualities
        which are lacking in ekult as an organization, and in so many of its members,
        especially those who've been in it for many years.

        "a far-reaching guidebook to contemporary spirituality" ???????

        I think not.


        Sharon


        prometheus wrote:
        >
        > Hello Z and All,
        > Yes, it is my understanding
        > that he joined the E-cult
        > in 1971.
        >
        > [sorry for the reposts]
        >
        > Was "The Lost Slipper
        > of Soul" printed by
        > Eckankar?
        >
        > BTW-It seems that the
        > "Kip" character is the
        > alter ego of the author.
        > So, perhaps, HK isn't
        > all that impressive
        > of a "Master/Mahanta"
        > for this H.I., and I'm
        > thinking that he no
        > longer buys into Twit's
        > plagiarisms and fiction.
        >
        > IMO, Based upon the
        > story line, many of us
        > former long-time EK
        > leaders could have
        > written a similar book.
        > And, one could easily
        > substitute "Truth Seeker"
        > for "Karma Seeker," and
        > "ECKankar" for "League."
        >
        > FYI: I Googled his
        > Karma-Seeker website
        > where he gives "Card
        > Readings" via phone.
        > So, why would a person
        > still be an H.I. If he
        > does Card Readings?
        >
        > Here's some info on the
        > book from Amazon.
        >
        >
        > BOOK DESCRIPTION:
        >
        > "What is the true test of spirituality?
        > Is it loyalty to a master, group, or
        > teaching? Or is it having the courage
        > to act on one's deepest convictions,
        > even in the face of disapproval and
        > sanction?
        >
        > This is the question that confronts
        > Kip Morgan.
        >
        > Kip is a karma seekerâ€"an individual
        > committed to testing himself by means
        > of his own choices. For such people,
        > who are engaged in an experiment
        > with unknown forces, there is no way
        > to prove that they are fit to discover
        > what they seek except by doing it.
        >
        > As a young man, Kip joins the League,
        > one of the burgeoning new age spiritual
        > groups of the late 1960s and early 1970s.
        > He learns the fundamentals of its teachings,
        > which involve cultivating inner experiences
        > through contemplation, dreams, and out-
        > of-body experiences.
        >
        > The high point of his experience comes
        > with his initiation into the League's inner
        > circle, a transcendent event that significantly
        > alters his view of life. It doesn't take long,
        > however, before he discovers how fragile
        > this experience is, and how difficult it is
        > to hold on to his new state of consciousness.
        >
        > Kip embarks on a quest that takes him
        > beyond the confines of the League.
        >
        > Eventually, he comes to question the
        > group's claim to exclusivity, and to see
        > it as merely a portal to a universal spiritual
        > path.
        >
        > As he becomes less reliant on the League
        > and its members for support and guidance,
        > he is torn between his personal vision of
        > truth and his fear of spiritual failure. This
        > puts him on a collision course with the League
        > President, the group's ultimate spiritual authority.
        >
        > The Karma Seeker is a far-reaching guidebook
        > to contemporary spirituality. It presents the
        > reader with the essential paradigm of the modern
        > spiritual pathâ€"its highs and lows, its rewards
        > and pitfalls. It illustrates how individuals who
        > embark on such a path are tested in the areas
        > of their greatest deficiency in order to build up
        > their spiritual strength, all so that they may
        > eventually become active participants in their
        > own destiny." [end]



        Prometheus

        "Sharon" brighttigress wrote:
        So, another eckanborg crawls out of the woodwork, selling a book and card
        readings, much like the Twitchster when he started out - so, Stefan, what are
        you going to call your "path" when you get enough followers? Or don't you have
        a name for it yet?

        So, you're keeping your membership and HI "status" - understandable, like Jerry
        Mulvin to Ford Johnson, ekult is a good source of new members. Are you afraid
        to lose those initiations and return to the consciousness of a rock? And wander
        for eternity in astral hell until you come crawling back to "the master"?

        You don't want ECKANKAR mentioned in book reviews at Amazon? Why not? You've
        got ECKANKAR at the top of your links list at your karmaseeker website.

        It's so sad what 20 years in ekult does to people. I doubt very much if you
        "get" what's wrong with this whole picture, with what you're doing.

        I left ekult because honesty and integrity are important to me. Two qualities
        which are lacking in ekult as an organization, and in so many of its members,
        especially those who've been in it for many years.

        "a far-reaching guidebook to contemporary spirituality" ???????

        I think not.

        Sharon

        prometheus wrote:
        >
        > Hello Z and All,
        > Yes, it is my understanding
        > that he joined the E-cult
        > in 1971.
        >
        > [sorry for the reposts]
        >
        > Was "The Lost Slipper
        > of Soul" printed by
        > Eckankar?
        >
        > BTW-It seems that the
        > "Kip" character is the
        > alter ego of the author.
        > So, perhaps, HK isn't
        > all that impressive
        > of a "Master/Mahanta"
        > for this H.I., and I'm
        > thinking that he no
        > longer buys into Twit's
        > plagiarisms and fiction.
        >
        > IMO, Based upon the
        > story line, many of us
        > former long-time EK
        > leaders could have
        > written a similar book.
        > And, one could easily
        > substitute "Truth Seeker"
        > for "Karma Seeker," and
        > "ECKankar" for "League."
        >
        > FYI: I Googled his
        > Karma-Seeker website
        > where he gives "Card
        > Readings" via phone.
        > So, why would a person
        > still be an H.I. If he
        > does Card Readings?
        >
        > Here's some info on the
        > book from Amazon.
        >
        >
        > BOOK DESCRIPTION:
        >
        > "What is the true test of spirituality?
        > Is it loyalty to a master, group, or
        > teaching? Or is it having the courage
        > to act on one's deepest convictions,
        > even in the face of disapproval and
        > sanction?
        >
        > This is the question that confronts
        > Kip Morgan.
        >
        > Kip is a karma seeker-an individual
        > committed to testing himself by means
        > of his own choices. For such people,
        > who are engaged in an experiment
        > with unknown forces, there is no way
        > to prove that they are fit to discover
        > what they seek except by doing it.
        >
        > As a young man, Kip joins the League,
        > one of the burgeoning new age spiritual
        > groups of the late 1960s and early 1970s.
        > He learns the fundamentals of its teachings,
        > which involve cultivating inner experiences
        > through contemplation, dreams, and out-
        > of-body experiences.
        >
        > The high point of his experience comes
        > with his initiation into the League's inner
        > circle, a transcendent event that significantly
        > alters his view of life. It doesn't take long,
        > however, before he discovers how fragile
        > this experience is, and how difficult it is
        > to hold on to his new state of consciousness.
        >
        > Kip embarks on a quest that takes him
        > beyond the confines of the League.
        >
        > Eventually, he comes to question the
        > group's claim to exclusivity, and to see
        > it as merely a portal to a universal spiritual
        > path.
        >
        > As he becomes less reliant on the League
        > and its members for support and guidance,
        > he is torn between his personal vision of
        > truth and his fear of spiritual failure. This
        > puts him on a collision course with the League
        > President, the group's ultimate spiritual authority.
        >
        > The Karma Seeker is a far-reaching guidebook
        > to contemporary spirituality. It presents the
        > reader with the essential paradigm of the modern
        > spiritual path-its highs and lows, its rewards
        > and pitfalls. It illustrates how individuals who
        > embark on such a path are tested in the areas
        > of their greatest deficiency in order to build up
        > their spiritual strength, all so that they may
        > eventually become active participants in their
        > own destiny." [end]
        >
        >
        >
        > "zephrendhun" wrote:
        > >
        > > Dear Prom and all,
        > >
        Interesting thing about this book is that its original title was
        "The Lost Slipper of Soul " and I have that version. I also know
        the author who is a fine enough chap but I think Stefan is still
        an H.I. I believe he is an H.I. 'on the fence', so to speak. Many
        H.I.'s remain in Eckrakorn, hoping that Harry the Klempster
        will soon retire or die. Then they can see if they will become
        the next LEM or if Harry's replacement is ok, then they will
        probably continue with their delusion that Eckrakorn is a true
        spiritual path and not just the cult it is. Its tough being an
        individual and losing all of the friends and acquantences one
        encounters in the E-cult. But their true reason for excommunicating
        a long time freind is that they really have their doubts about
        this crap's truth as well. Besides after being a none E-cultist
        for a while, I have formed some significant friendships that
        really don't give a s**t what my religious views are. The road
        is lonely sometimes on one own path, but there are no lies or
        delusions. Divine Source loves spiritual renegades, just check
        out Jesus the Christ. Enuff said. Peace and chicken grease!
        > >
        > > Zephrendhun



        prometheus wrote:

        Hello Stefan and All,
        I guess that the problem
        that people are having
        is Why is it that you still
        want to remain an H.I.
        when you don't see HK
        as the Mahanta nor see
        Eckankar as the end all
        to spiritual truth.

        As far as the mumbo-
        jumbo with the "card
        reading' if it's not psychic,
        which doesn't exist, then,
        it's a con/scam. Or,
        maybe you've bought
        into the delusion as
        much as you've, previously,
        bought into Eckankar. I'm
        sure that astrology works
        just as well.

        Have you ever read about
        the Amazing Randy?
        Google him! He's debunked
        all sorts of scams similar
        to your "Card Reading."

        But, yes, many of us have
        interesting stories involving
        our spiritual search to find
        Truth. And many of us have
        been involved with EK leadership
        positions and the hierarchy.

        Why not just come out of
        the anti-HK closet and let
        Klemp censor you like he
        did with Ford Johnson? Maybe
        he'll demote you but so what?
        IMO-The best thing would
        be to have Klemp excommunicate
        you!

        Prometheus


        Stefan Meyer wrote:
        Hi, All

        I have been glancing at these posts from time to time. I really hate the thought of having to "defend" myself on this forum. I certainly wouldn't want to get into some extended debate that went back and forth ad infinitum. But I guess I'll take one stab at replying to the general tenor of some of these posts, and then I'll retire from the fray.

        The reason I contacted this forum about my book was twofold. First of all--yes, I'm trying to promote the book. I don't think that wanting to promote a book is something to be ashamed of. All authors want to promote their books. If you write a book and then have no desire to promote it, I doubt that anyone's ever going to read it. So self-promotion comes with the territory of writing, even more these days when traditional book publishers are becoming marginalized, and authors often have to assume complete responsibility for their own marketing.

        The other reason was that a few weeks ago I just happened to land on this forum, and I read a post that honestly touched me. I can't find the post anymore, but basically the writer was saying that, as someone who had left Eckankar, she felt it had taken years for her to heal from the emotional scars. And I could really relate to that because I'm going through the same thing. Doesn't matter whether I'm still a member or not. I don't see this as a matter of just ECKists on one side, and those who have left Eckankar on the other. There are all sorts of people who are on the sidelines, still trying to work out these issues for themselves, and they don't really have anywhere to turn or anyone to talk to. This could be a forum for healing, but I guess some people are so pissed off as a result of their experiences that they jump to conclusions and make all sorts of accusations. I must have dark ulterior motives. I'm angling to become the next LEM, or start my own cult. No, not really. I've just written a book and I'd like to find some people interested in reading it. Period.

        Regarding some specific comments: 1. I don't have Eckankar on my card reading website. I have some quotes from Paul Twitchell (at least I assume they're from Paul--maybe someone will tell me they're plagiarized. That's ok. I just like the quotes). 2. The card reading thing isn't psychic at all. It's based on a metaphysical system that anyone can learn for themselves. All you have to know is how to navigate a few charts and how to interpret the symbolic language of the cards. If I were psychic, I'd be more than happy to advertise my abilities, but I'm not. 3. Yes, it doesn't require a whole lot of sleuthing to discover my name. So I guess I'm really bad at being anonymous, though I tried to be. I originally wrote the book under the name of the main character to distance myself from the narrative, but it didn't work. Purely from a marketing standpoint, I realized that I had to "own" what I'd written. Am I happier that the previous post was erased? Yes, and thanks to the moderator for that courtesy. Does that make me a coward? I guess so. But I'm still here, making my voice heard. And I would hope that people would be a little more generous and understand that it's difficult for people like me to work through our conflicts. We may have to write a book to do it. And even writing the book might not be enough. We might have to get up and defend it. And that could take more courage than even they think they have. And maybe that deserves at least some measure of good will.

        That's pretty much all I have to say. Go in peace.
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