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Re: Statistics question

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  • Non
    And yet there are still those who surround themselves with photos of klemp, in wallets, on dash boards, luggage tags etc.sold by eckankar inc. It is so
    Message 1 of 9 , Nov 19, 2012
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      And yet there are still those who surround themselves with photos of klemp, in wallets, on dash boards, luggage tags etc.sold by eckankar inc. It is so strange, yet I guess it is just another example of how dangerous the Herd mentality is in us humans. What you describe sounds very much like any ritual done by a Nazi or the KKK, etc. and other Cults and Religions, claiming to have ultimate dogmatic truth, that is only a lot of sticky ugly lies.

      Fortunately, I think the younger generation sees through a lot of bull shit that we were drawn into because we thought that truth and authority and exotic philosophies didn't have to be questioned much. We were more easily fooled than today. It is interesting that the percentage of those unaffiliated with any Religion or Spirituality is increasing, and I hope this trend continues.

      Non ; )

      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Stanley" <dianastanley43@...> wrote:
      >
      > I left Eck around 25 years ago after being in the middle of the bulls++it between darwin and harold. They were both contacting me trying to convince me they were the real Mahanta.Darwin even called me one night drunk and crying saying he was the real master. I told him to go to bed.
      > I saw some of the worst of activities. It was still hard to pull the
      > plug on Eck as I had a close nit family of friends. Some like me pulled
      > out and others stayed in. Some of them left later. I doubt there are any statistics about how many. They lied so much about so many things
      > One thing has always bothered me. I did a painting of the passing of the
      > "Rod of Power" they made a print of it,this was after Paul died.
      > When Harod took over I was told he and a few others took the painting to the desert did a cerimony Burned the painting and buried it,
      > if harold did'nt believe Darwin was the Mahanta but a con man Why did he go to the trouble of burning his painting? There are a lot of ways to destroy a painting.
      > I am rambling.
      > Diana Stanley
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      > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Avonblue" <gowiththeflow1212@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Does anyone have facts on the number of members eckankar has had since its conception in the 60's; how many members have actually left over the years and how many members there are now?
      > > It's hard for me to imagine that many people are being sucked into this organization anymore.
      > >
      > > Also, has there been any precedent for anyone going after eckankar for membership (dollars) return based on fraudulent representation or does the fact that they call it a membership "donation" preclude that as legal possibility?
      > >
      >
    • Sharon
      Not only did I keep a photo of Klemp on the TV, I gave one to my son for his wallet & told him Harold would always protect him, and he should talk to
      Message 2 of 9 , Nov 20, 2012
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        <giggle> Not only did I keep a photo of Klemp on the TV, I gave one to my son for his wallet & told him Harold would always protect him, and he should talk to him, etc. Years later he told me he thought I was nuts. He said he felt like there was "someone or something" always with him, but it sure as heck wasn't Klemp, and it had nothing to do with ekult.

        Anyway, when I got on the internet the first place I landed was alt.religion.eckankar, which was quite something back then! An HI told me there were evil entities on the internet and some eckists had actually experienced them coming out of the monitor. So, I put a photo of Klemp right on the wall over the monitor.

        Gotta laugh, you know? Reminds me of a silly eckstory, an eckist was riding on an airplane and "knew" it was going to crash, so she conjured up little eckanmechanics in her head to tighten all the nuts & bolts. When she debarked, she noticed the pilot and thought wow, he had *no* idea that the plane was going to crash but "the eck" saved him!

        Oh - while I think of it, Diana - did you ever think about writing a book? It would be fascinating - and I might even buy one new & full price!!

        Hugs,

        Sharon

        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Non" <eckchains@...> wrote:
        >
        > And yet there are still those who surround themselves with photos of klemp, in wallets, on dash boards, luggage tags etc.sold by eckankar inc. It is so strange, yet I guess it is just another example of how dangerous the Herd mentality is in us humans. What you describe sounds very much like any ritual done by a Nazi or the KKK, etc. and other Cults and Religions, claiming to have ultimate dogmatic truth, that is only a lot of sticky ugly lies.
        >
        > Fortunately, I think the younger generation sees through a lot of bull shit that we were drawn into because we thought that truth and authority and exotic philosophies didn't have to be questioned much. We were more easily fooled than today. It is interesting that the percentage of those unaffiliated with any Religion or Spirituality is increasing, and I hope this trend continues.
        >
        > Non ; )
        >
        > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Stanley" <dianastanley43@> wrote:
        > >
        > > I left Eck around 25 years ago after being in the middle of the bulls++it between darwin and harold. They were both contacting me trying to convince me they were the real Mahanta.Darwin even called me one night drunk and crying saying he was the real master. I told him to go to bed.
        > > I saw some of the worst of activities. It was still hard to pull the
        > > plug on Eck as I had a close nit family of friends. Some like me pulled
        > > out and others stayed in. Some of them left later. I doubt there are any statistics about how many. They lied so much about so many things
        > > One thing has always bothered me. I did a painting of the passing of the
        > > "Rod of Power" they made a print of it,this was after Paul died.
        > > When Harod took over I was told he and a few others took the painting to the desert did a cerimony Burned the painting and buried it,
        > > if harold did'nt believe Darwin was the Mahanta but a con man Why did he go to the trouble of burning his painting? There are a lot of ways to destroy a painting.
        > > I am rambling.
        > > Diana Stanley
        > >
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        > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Avonblue" <gowiththeflow1212@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Does anyone have facts on the number of members eckankar has had since its conception in the 60's; how many members have actually left over the years and how many members there are now?
        > > > It's hard for me to imagine that many people are being sucked into this organization anymore.
        > > >
        > > > Also, has there been any precedent for anyone going after eckankar for membership (dollars) return based on fraudulent representation or does the fact that they call it a membership "donation" preclude that as legal possibility?
        > > >
        > >
        >
      • Diana Stanley
        Sharon I think Steven King would be a better author for a book about the comings and goings about Eck Masters.
        Message 3 of 9 , Nov 20, 2012
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          Sharon I think Steven King would be a better author for a book about the comings and goings about Eck Masters.


          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Sharon" <brighttigress@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > <giggle> Not only did I keep a photo of Klemp on the TV, I gave one to my son for his wallet & told him Harold would always protect him, and he should talk to him, etc. Years later he told me he thought I was nuts. He said he felt like there was "someone or something" always with him, but it sure as heck wasn't Klemp, and it had nothing to do with ekult.
          >
          > Anyway, when I got on the internet the first place I landed was alt.religion.eckankar, which was quite something back then! An HI told me there were evil entities on the internet and some eckists had actually experienced them coming out of the monitor. So, I put a photo of Klemp right on the wall over the monitor.
          >
          > Gotta laugh, you know? Reminds me of a silly eckstory, an eckist was riding on an airplane and "knew" it was going to crash, so she conjured up little eckanmechanics in her head to tighten all the nuts & bolts. When she debarked, she noticed the pilot and thought wow, he had *no* idea that the plane was going to crash but "the eck" saved him!
          >
          > Oh - while I think of it, Diana - did you ever think about writing a book? It would be fascinating - and I might even buy one new & full price!!
          >
          > Hugs,
          >
          > Sharon
          >
          > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Non" <eckchains@> wrote:
          > >
          > > And yet there are still those who surround themselves with photos of klemp, in wallets, on dash boards, luggage tags etc.sold by eckankar inc. It is so strange, yet I guess it is just another example of how dangerous the Herd mentality is in us humans. What you describe sounds very much like any ritual done by a Nazi or the KKK, etc. and other Cults and Religions, claiming to have ultimate dogmatic truth, that is only a lot of sticky ugly lies.
          > >
          > > Fortunately, I think the younger generation sees through a lot of bull shit that we were drawn into because we thought that truth and authority and exotic philosophies didn't have to be questioned much. We were more easily fooled than today. It is interesting that the percentage of those unaffiliated with any Religion or Spirituality is increasing, and I hope this trend continues.
          > >
          > > Non ; )
          > >
          > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Stanley" <dianastanley43@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > I left Eck around 25 years ago after being in the middle of the bulls++it between darwin and harold. They were both contacting me trying to convince me they were the real Mahanta.Darwin even called me one night drunk and crying saying he was the real master. I told him to go to bed.
          > > > I saw some of the worst of activities. It was still hard to pull the
          > > > plug on Eck as I had a close nit family of friends. Some like me pulled
          > > > out and others stayed in. Some of them left later. I doubt there are any statistics about how many. They lied so much about so many things
          > > > One thing has always bothered me. I did a painting of the passing of the
          > > > "Rod of Power" they made a print of it,this was after Paul died.
          > > > When Harod took over I was told he and a few others took the painting to the desert did a cerimony Burned the painting and buried it,
          > > > if harold did'nt believe Darwin was the Mahanta but a con man Why did he go to the trouble of burning his painting? There are a lot of ways to destroy a painting.
          > > > I am rambling.
          > > > Diana Stanley
          > > >
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          > > >
          > > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Avonblue" <gowiththeflow1212@> wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > Does anyone have facts on the number of members eckankar has had since its conception in the 60's; how many members have actually left over the years and how many members there are now?
          > > > > It's hard for me to imagine that many people are being sucked into this organization anymore.
          > > > >
          > > > > Also, has there been any precedent for anyone going after eckankar for membership (dollars) return based on fraudulent representation or does the fact that they call it a membership "donation" preclude that as legal possibility?
          > > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >
        • prometheus_973
          Hello Sharon and All, Yes, I had photos and wore EK jewelry. It s a familiar thing for former Catholics. I had additional photos of EK masters taped to the
          Message 4 of 9 , Nov 22, 2012
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            Hello Sharon and All,
            Yes, I had photos and
            wore EK jewelry. It's
            a familiar thing for
            former Catholics.

            I had additional photos
            of EK masters taped
            to the backside of
            the sun visor and
            had PT's photo in
            plain sight down by
            the ashtray. People
            would always ask
            who it was. I guess
            Jesus' photo or Mary's
            were well known,
            plus, the saints always
            had their names on
            the photos so no
            need to explain who
            it was or why it was
            there. Well, sometimes
            non-Catholics would
            ask and thought it
            was strange and like
            carrying a lucky rabbit's
            foot which is closer to
            the truth than religionists
            can/could ever admit.

            I had multiple photos
            in every room of the
            house and carried photos
            on me and had them
            on my desk at work.
            I was rather nuts.

            It was an odd time
            when the collapse
            of the DG-HK transition
            took place in 1984
            wasn't it? Many EKists
            quite when DG was
            booted in such an
            uncharitable, unpleasant,
            disagreeable, nasty, mean-
            spirited, cruel, vindictive,
            vicious, spiteful, malicious,
            callous, unsympathetic,
            unfeeling, uncaring, cold-
            hearted; unfriendly,
            inconsiderate, insensitive,
            hostile; informal bitchy,
            catty manner.


            It was getting bad at
            the start of the Youth
            Conference (April 1963)
            in St. Louis but later,
            during the seminar
            had gotten much worse.

            BTW-When I saw a
            5x7 B&W photo of
            DG blowing across
            the parking lot after
            that really strange
            seminar it startled
            me. I chased it down
            and after picking it
            up I thought this was
            a confirmation of
            Darwin's downfall.


            Many months later
            we had to meet at
            the ECK Center to
            listen to Klemp's
            talk to the H.I.s.
            Was that a July
            or October meeting?

            We were instructed
            to get rid of Darwin's
            letters he had written
            to some of us and his
            photos because they
            were dangerous to
            have due to their Black
            Magic effects upon us.

            One 4th commented
            to me when she came
            into the center, "Well,
            if Darwin's photos are
            Black Magic why aren't
            Harold's?"

            I said nothing and thought
            she didn't get it, and yet
            she made a good point.
            White Magic or Black and
            who decides what is what?
            And is White Magic really
            any better? Yes, I think it
            is. But Klemp doesn't even
            function on that high of
            a level.

            Prometheus



            Sharon wrote:
            <giggle> Not only did I keep a photo of Klemp on the TV, I gave one to my son
            for his wallet & told him Harold would always protect him, and he should talk to
            him, etc. Years later he told me he thought I was nuts. He said he felt like
            there was "someone or something" always with him, but it sure as heck wasn't
            Klemp, and it had nothing to do with ekult.

            Anyway, when I got on the internet the first place I landed was
            alt.religion.eckankar, which was quite something back then! An HI told me there
            were evil entities on the internet and some eckists had actually experienced
            them coming out of the monitor. So, I put a photo of Klemp right on the wall
            over the monitor.

            Gotta laugh, you know? Reminds me of a silly eckstory, an eckist was riding on
            an airplane and "knew" it was going to crash, so she conjured up little
            eckanmechanics in her head to tighten all the nuts & bolts. When she debarked,
            she noticed the pilot and thought wow, he had *no* idea that the plane was going
            to crash but "the eck" saved him!

            Oh - while I think of it, Diana - did you ever think about writing a book? It
            would be fascinating - and I might even buy one new & full price!!

            Hugs,

            Sharon

            "Non" <eckchains@...> wrote:
            >
            > And yet there are still those who surround themselves with photos of klemp, in
            wallets, on dash boards, luggage tags etc.sold by eckankar inc. It is so
            strange, yet I guess it is just another example of how dangerous the Herd
            mentality is in us humans. What you describe sounds very much like any ritual
            done by a Nazi or the KKK, etc. and other Cults and Religions, claiming to have
            ultimate dogmatic truth, that is only a lot of sticky ugly lies.
            >
            > Fortunately, I think the younger generation sees through a lot of bull shit
            that we were drawn into because we thought that truth and authority and exotic
            philosophies didn't have to be questioned much. We were more easily fooled than
            today. It is interesting that the percentage of those unaffiliated with any
            Religion or Spirituality is increasing, and I hope this trend continues.
            >
            > Non ; )
            >
            dianastanley wrote:
            > >
            > > I left Eck around 25 years ago after being in the middle of the bulls++it
            between darwin and harold. They were both contacting me trying to convince me
            they were the real Mahanta.Darwin even called me one night drunk and crying
            saying he was the real master. I told him to go to bed.
            > > I saw some of the worst of activities. It was still hard to pull the
            > > plug on Eck as I had a close nit family of friends. Some like me pulled
            > > out and others stayed in. Some of them left later. I doubt there are any
            statistics about how many. They lied so much about so many things
            > > One thing has always bothered me. I did a painting of the passing of the
            > > "Rod of Power" they made a print of it,this was after Paul died.
            > > When Harod took over I was told he and a few others took the painting to the
            desert did a cerimony Burned the painting and buried it,
            > > if harold did'nt believe Darwin was the Mahanta but a con man Why did he go
            to the trouble of burning his painting? There are a lot of ways to destroy a
            painting.
            > > I am rambling.
            > > Diana Stanley
          • Non
            Interesting about the Catholic part. It makes a little more sense the way you explain it. However, in my gut, I was not able to go that far, and I was also
            Message 5 of 9 , Nov 23, 2012
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              Interesting about the Catholic part. It makes a little more sense the way you explain it. However, in my gut, I was not able to go that far, and I was also studying about philosophy, Zen, other New Age stuff, Mysticism, Freud, Jung, Tai Chi, Yoga..... I just remember feeling more guilty about my doubts and questions, especially when I went to eck classes. There was something about the eck books and stuff that was intoxicating (toxic) and I couldn't get it out of my mind and actually hated it's affect.

              Why I had these doubts I think is because I have a very curious nature and I have always been kind of like the kid that saw that the Emperor isn't wearing any clothes, but I was also afraid to say anything and would just hold it in. I think there are a lot of people like this. All they have to do is open up to a slightly higher state of proof, rather than just taking someones word for it. It is OK to be a little skeptical about everything. Those who can't let themselves feel even some slight discomfort about not being dogmatic or knowing for sure, are really very fearful, and not at all as confident or happy as they pretend to be. Prick their bubble and quite often you will get a *rage* reaction and get labeled an agent of kal or some other usual demeaning expression or ignored like shunning. In the end it is a sickness. Kudos to those of us who have made the effort to escape.

              Cheers!

              Non ; D

              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hello Sharon and All,
              Yes, I had photos and
              wore EK jewelry. It's
              a familiar thing for
              former Catholics.

              I had additional photos
              of EK masters taped
              to the backside of
              the sun visor and
              had PT's photo in
              plain sight down by
              the ashtray. People
              would always ask
              who it was. I guess
              Jesus' photo or Mary's
              were well known,
              plus, the saints always
              had their names on
              the photos so no
              need to explain who
              it was or why it was
              there. Well, sometimes
              non-Catholics would
              ask and thought it
              was strange and like
              carrying a lucky rabbit's
              foot which is closer to
              the truth than religionists
              can/could ever admit.

              I had multiple photos
              in every room of the
              house and carried photos
              on me and had them
              on my desk at work.
              I was rather nuts.

              It was an odd time
              when the collapse
              of the DG-HK transition
              took place in 1984
              wasn't it? Many EKists
              quite when DG was
              booted in such an
              uncharitable, unpleasant,
              disagreeable, nasty, mean-
              spirited, cruel, vindictive,
              vicious, spiteful, malicious,
              callous, unsympathetic,
              unfeeling, uncaring, cold-
              hearted; unfriendly,
              inconsiderate, insensitive,
              hostile; informal bitchy,
              catty manner.


              It was getting bad at
              the start of the Youth
              Conference (April 1963)
              in St. Louis but later,
              during the seminar
              had gotten much worse.

              BTW-When I saw a
              5x7 B&W photo of
              DG blowing across
              the parking lot after
              that really strange
              seminar it startled
              me. I chased it down
              and after picking it
              up I thought this was
              a confirmation of
              Darwin's downfall.


              Many months later
              we had to meet at
              the ECK Center to
              listen to Klemp's
              talk to the H.I.s.
              Was that a July
              or October meeting?

              We were instructed
              to get rid of Darwin's
              letters he had written
              to some of us and his
              photos because they
              were dangerous to
              have due to their Black
              Magic effects upon us.

              One 4th commented
              to me when she came
              into the center, "Well,
              if Darwin's photos are
              Black Magic why aren't
              Harold's?"

              I said nothing and thought
              she didn't get it, and yet
              she made a good point.
              White Magic or Black and
              who decides what is what?
              And is White Magic really
              any better? Yes, I think it
              is. But Klemp doesn't even
              function on that high of
              a level.

              Prometheus



              Sharon wrote:
              <giggle> Not only did I keep a photo of Klemp on the TV, I gave one to my son
              for his wallet & told him Harold would always protect him, and he should talk to
              him, etc. Years later he told me he thought I was nuts. He said he felt like
              there was "someone or something" always with him, but it sure as heck wasn't
              Klemp, and it had nothing to do with ekult.

              Anyway, when I got on the internet the first place I landed was
              alt.religion.eckankar, which was quite something back then! An HI told me there
              were evil entities on the internet and some eckists had actually experienced
              them coming out of the monitor. So, I put a photo of Klemp right on the wall
              over the monitor.

              Gotta laugh, you know? Reminds me of a silly eckstory, an eckist was riding on
              an airplane and "knew" it was going to crash, so she conjured up little
              eckanmechanics in her head to tighten all the nuts & bolts. When she debarked,
              she noticed the pilot and thought wow, he had *no* idea that the plane was going
              to crash but "the eck" saved him!

              Oh - while I think of it, Diana - did you ever think about writing a book? It
              would be fascinating - and I might even buy one new & full price!!

              Hugs,

              Sharon

              "Non" <eckchains@...> wrote:
              >
              > And yet there are still those who surround themselves with photos of klemp, in
              wallets, on dash boards, luggage tags etc.sold by eckankar inc. It is so
              strange, yet I guess it is just another example of how dangerous the Herd
              mentality is in us humans. What you describe sounds very much like any ritual
              done by a Nazi or the KKK, etc. and other Cults and Religions, claiming to have
              ultimate dogmatic truth, that is only a lot of sticky ugly lies.
              >
              > Fortunately, I think the younger generation sees through a lot of bull shit
              that we were drawn into because we thought that truth and authority and exotic
              philosophies didn't have to be questioned much. We were more easily fooled than
              today. It is interesting that the percentage of those unaffiliated with any
              Religion or Spirituality is increasing, and I hope this trend continues.
              >
              > Non ; )
              >
              dianastanley wrote:
              > >
              > > I left Eck around 25 years ago after being in the middle of the bulls++it
              between darwin and harold. They were both contacting me trying to convince me
              they were the real Mahanta.Darwin even called me one night drunk and crying
              saying he was the real master. I told him to go to bed.
              > > I saw some of the worst of activities. It was still hard to pull the
              > > plug on Eck as I had a close nit family of friends. Some like me pulled
              > > out and others stayed in. Some of them left later. I doubt there are any
              statistics about how many. They lied so much about so many things
              > > One thing has always bothered me. I did a painting of the passing of the
              > > "Rod of Power" they made a print of it,this was after Paul died.
              > > When Harod took over I was told he and a few others took the painting to the
              desert did a cerimony Burned the painting and buried it,
              > > if harold did'nt believe Darwin was the Mahanta but a con man Why did he go
              to the trouble of burning his painting? There are a lot of ways to destroy a
              painting.
              > > I am rambling.
              > > Diana Stanley
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