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Fw: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: "The Karma Seeker"

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  • Stefan Meyer
    Hi, All I have been glancing at these posts from time to time. I really hate the thought of having to defend myself on this forum. I certainly wouldn t want
    Message 1 of 3 , Nov 16, 2012
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      Hi, All
       
      I have been glancing at these posts from time to time. I really hate the thought of having to "defend" myself on this forum. I certainly wouldn't want to get into some extended debate that went back and forth ad infinitum. But I guess I'll take one stab at replying to the general tenor of some of these posts, and then I'll retire from the fray.
       
      The reason I contacted this forum about my book was twofold. First of all--yes, I'm trying to promote the book. I don't think that wanting to promote a book is something to be ashamed of. All authors want to promote their books. If you write a book and then have no desire to promote it, I doubt that anyone's ever going to read it. So self-promotion comes with the territory of writing, even more these days when traditional book publishers are becoming marginalized, and authors often have to assume complete responsibility for their own marketing.
       
      The other reason was that a few weeks ago I just happened to land on this forum, and I read a post that honestly touched me. I can't find the post anymore, but basically the writer was saying that, as someone who had left Eckankar, she felt it had taken years for her to heal from the emotional scars. And I could really relate to that because I'm going through the same thing. Doesn't matter whether I'm still a member or not. I don't see this as a matter of just ECKists on one side, and those who have left Eckankar on the other. There are all sorts of people who are on the sidelines, still trying to work out these issues for themselves, and they don't really have anywhere to turn or anyone to talk to. This could be a forum for healing, but I guess some people are so pissed off as a result of their experiences that they jump to conclusions and make all sorts of accusations. I must have dark ulterior motives. I'm angling to become the next LEM, or start my own cult. No, not really. I've just written a book and I'd like to find some people interested in reading it. Period.
       
      Regarding some specific comments: 1. I don't have Eckankar on my card reading website. I have some quotes from Paul Twitchell (at least I assume they're from Paul--maybe someone will tell me they're plagiarized. That's ok. I just like the quotes). 2. The card reading thing isn't psychic at all. It's based on a metaphysical system that anyone can learn for themselves. All you have to know is how to navigate a few charts and how to interpret the symbolic language of the cards. If I were psychic, I'd be more than happy to advertise my abilities, but I'm not. 3. Yes, it doesn't require a whole lot of sleuthing to discover my name. So I guess I'm really bad at being anonymous, though I tried to be. I originally wrote the book under the name of the main character to distance myself from the narrative, but it didn't work. Purely from a marketing standpoint, I realized that I had to "own" what I'd written. Am I happier that the previous post was erased? Yes, and thanks to the moderator for that courtesy. Does that make me a coward? I guess so. But I'm still here, making my voice heard. And I would hope that people would be a little more generous and understand that it's difficult for people like me to work through our conflicts. We may have to write a book to do it. And even writing the book might not be enough. We might have to get up and defend it. And that could take more courage than even they think they have. And maybe that deserves at least some measure of good will.
       
      That's pretty much all I have to say. Go in peace.
       
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Friday, November 16, 2012 3:27 PM
      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: "The Karma Seeker"

       

      Hello Sharon and All,
      S.M. sent me a message
      and wanted to have his
      name removed so that
      he couldn't be traced,
      but mentioning the book's
      title doesn't require
      much sleuthing in order
      to discover the author's
      real name (Google and
      discover his Karma-Seeker
      site... and he's on FB too!).

      Anyway, I removed one
      of his posts and was trying
      to edit his name out of
      another but I must
      have done something
      wrong and his entire
      post was removed.

      Did he send you something
      too? Maybe he's fishing
      for customers because
      the EK pond has been
      fished out?

      BTW- Someone asked to
      be able to join ESA and
      said they had nice things
      to say about Jerry Mulvin.
      I approved their membership
      out of curiosity, but they
      will be monitored until
      I can determine if their
      status should be changed.

      It's funny that Stefan does
      "Card Reading" via phone,
      yet, claims it's "not psychic."
      Apparently the spiel is that
      the technique he uses is
      "spiritual" or maybe involves
      "Quantum Physics." It kind
      of reminded of the TV show
      The Mentalist where Patrick
      Jane states that the psychic
      doesn't exist and that selling
      it is just a con/scam and
      that all he actually does
      to 'know things' is to "pay
      attention."

      I didn't check to see that
      Stefan had mentioned E-cult
      in his links. For someone
      who has the educational
      credentials that he has it
      makes one wonder about
      his inability to connect-
      the-dots and cover his
      tracks. Being an H.I. for
      a long period of time
      either makes one more
      skeptical or more delusional
      via denial.

      Of course, one could wonder
      about the same in regards to
      Klemp. Except, he's in it for
      the Prestige, Money, and Power.

      ECKists should ask: Why isn't
      the ALL KNOWING Mahanta
      Aware of his wayward H.I.s?
      Otherwise HK would do something
      about the problem like he did
      with others right? Maybe Klemp
      is only "aware" when someone
      informs him via a snail-mail
      letter like Ford did.

      The real reason for Klemp's
      inattention to what his H.I.'s
      are doing is that he's a fake
      prophet and is in it for profit!

      But, what's going on with
      HK's Secret RESA Police?
      Why hasn't this guy been
      ferreted out, detained,
      questioned, suspended
      from Satsang duties and
      reported to the ESC? Local
      H.I.s via Internet or 'phone
      tree' need to be warned
      as well! Who's the RESA
      now for Massachusetts?
      Stefan is in Boston right?

      Prometheus

      "Sharon" brighttigress wrote:
      So, another eckanborg crawls out of the woodwork, selling a book and card
      readings, much like the Twitchster when he started out - so, Stefan, what are
      you going to call your "path" when you get enough followers? Or don't you have
      a name for it yet?

      So, you're keeping your membership and HI "status" - understandable, like Jerry
      Mulvin to Ford Johnson, ekult is a good source of new members. Are you afraid
      to lose those initiations and return to the consciousness of a rock? And wander
      for eternity in astral hell until you come crawling back to "the master"?

      You don't want ECKANKAR mentioned in book reviews at Amazon? Why not? You've
      got ECKANKAR at the top of your links list at your karmaseeker website.

      It's so sad what 20 years in ekult does to people. I doubt very much if you
      "get" what's wrong with this whole picture, with what you're doing.

      I left ekult because honesty and integrity are important to me. Two qualities
      which are lacking in ekult as an organization, and in so many of its members,
      especially those who've been in it for many years.

      "a far-reaching guidebook to contemporary spirituality" ???????

      I think not.

      Sharon

      prometheus wrote:
      >
      > Hello Z and All,
      > Yes, it is my understanding
      > that he joined the E-cult
      > in 1971.
      >
      > [sorry for the reposts]
      >
      > Was "The Lost Slipper
      > of Soul" printed by
      > Eckankar?
      >
      > BTW-It seems that the
      > "Kip" character is the
      > alter ego of the author.
      > So, perhaps, HK isn't
      > all that impressive
      > of a "Master/Mahanta"
      > for this H.I., and I'm
      > thinking that he no
      > longer buys into Twit's
      > plagiarisms and fiction.
      >
      > IMO, Based upon the
      > story line, many of us
      > former long-time EK
      > leaders could have
      > written a similar book.
      > And, one could easily
      > substitute "Truth Seeker"
      > for "Karma Seeker," and
      > "ECKankar" for "League."
      >
      > FYI: I Googled his
      > Karma-Seeker website
      > where he gives "Card
      > Readings" via phone.
      > So, why would a person
      > still be an H.I. If he
      > does Card Readings?
      >
      > Here's some info on the
      > book from Amazon.
      >
      >
      > BOOK DESCRIPTION:
      >
      > "What is the true test of spirituality?
      > Is it loyalty to a master, group, or
      > teaching? Or is it having the courage
      > to act on one's deepest convictions,
      > even in the face of disapproval and
      > sanction?
      >
      > This is the question that confronts
      > Kip Morgan.
      >
      > Kip is a karma seeker—an individual
      > committed to testing himself by means
      > of his own choices. For such people,
      > who are engaged in an experiment
      > with unknown forces, there is no way
      > to prove that they are fit to discover
      > what they seek except by doing it.
      >
      > As a young man, Kip joins the League,
      > one of the burgeoning new age spiritual
      > groups of the late 1960s and early 1970s.
      > He learns the fundamentals of its teachings,
      > which involve cultivating inner experiences
      > through contemplation, dreams, and out-
      > of-body experiences.
      >
      > The high point of his experience comes
      > with his initiation into the League's inner
      > circle, a transcendent event that significantly
      > alters his view of life. It doesn't take long,
      > however, before he discovers how fragile
      > this experience is, and how difficult it is
      > to hold on to his new state of consciousness.
      >
      > Kip embarks on a quest that takes him
      > beyond the confines of the League.
      >
      > Eventually, he comes to question the
      > group's claim to exclusivity, and to see
      > it as merely a portal to a universal spiritual
      > path.
      >
      > As he becomes less reliant on the League
      > and its members for support and guidance,
      > he is torn between his personal vision of
      > truth and his fear of spiritual failure. This
      > puts him on a collision course with the League
      > President, the group's ultimate spiritual authority.
      >
      > The Karma Seeker is a far-reaching guidebook
      > to contemporary spirituality. It presents the
      > reader with the essential paradigm of the modern
      > spiritual path—its highs and lows, its rewards
      > and pitfalls. It illustrates how individuals who
      > embark on such a path are tested in the areas
      > of their greatest deficiency in order to build up
      > their spiritual strength, all so that they may
      > eventually become active participants in their
      > own destiny." [end]
      >
      >
      >
      > "zephrendhun" wrote:
      > >
      > > Dear Prom and all,
      > >
      Interesting thing about this book is that its original title was
      "The Lost Slipper of Soul " and I have that version. I also know
      the author who is a fine enough chap but I think Stefan is still
      an H.I. I believe he is an H.I. 'on the fence', so to speak. Many
      H.I.'s remain in Eckrakorn, hoping that Harry the Klempster
      will soon retire or die. Then they can see if they will become
      the next LEM or if Harry's replacement is ok, then they will
      probably continue with their delusion that Eckrakorn is a true
      spiritual path and not just the cult it is. Its tough being an
      individual and losing all of the friends and acquantences one
      encounters in the E-cult. But their true reason for excommunicating
      a long time freind is that they really have their doubts about
      this crap's truth as well. Besides after being a none E-cultist
      for a while, I have formed some significant friendships that
      really don't give a s**t what my religious views are. The road
      is lonely sometimes on one own path, but there are no lies or
      delusions. Divine Source loves spiritual renegades, just check
      out Jesus the Christ. Enuff said. Peace and chicken grease!
      > >
      > > Zephrendhun

    • prometheus_973
      Hello Stefan and All, I guess that the problem that people are having is Why is it that you still want to remain an H.I. when you don t see HK as the Mahanta
      Message 2 of 3 , Nov 16, 2012
      • 0 Attachment
        Hello Stefan and All,
        I guess that the problem
        that people are having
        is Why is it that you still
        want to remain an H.I.
        when you don't see HK
        as the Mahanta nor see
        Eckankar as the end all
        to spiritual truth.

        As far as the mumbo-
        jumbo with the "card
        reading' if it's not psychic,
        which doesn't exist, then,
        it's a con/scam. Or,
        maybe you've bought
        into the delusion as
        much as you've, previously,
        bought into Eckankar. I'm
        sure that astrology works
        just as well.

        Have you ever read about
        the Amazing Randy?
        Google him! He's debunked
        all sorts of scams similar
        to your "Card Reading."

        But, yes, many of us have
        interesting stories involving
        our spiritual search to find
        Truth. And many of us have
        been involved with EK leadership
        positions and the hierarchy.

        Why not just come out of
        the anti-HK closet and let
        Klemp censor you like he
        did with Ford Johnson? Maybe
        he'll demote you but so what?
        IMO-The best thing would
        be to have Klemp excommunicate
        you!

        Prometheus


        Stefan Meyer wrote:
        Hi, All

        I have been glancing at these posts from time to time. I really hate the thought of having to "defend" myself on this forum. I certainly wouldn't want to get into some extended debate that went back and forth ad infinitum. But I guess I'll take one stab at replying to the general tenor of some of these posts, and then I'll retire from the fray.

        The reason I contacted this forum about my book was twofold. First of all--yes, I'm trying to promote the book. I don't think that wanting to promote a book is something to be ashamed of. All authors want to promote their books. If you write a book and then have no desire to promote it, I doubt that anyone's ever going to read it. So self-promotion comes with the territory of writing, even more these days when traditional book publishers are becoming marginalized, and authors often have to assume complete responsibility for their own marketing.

        The other reason was that a few weeks ago I just happened to land on this forum, and I read a post that honestly touched me. I can't find the post anymore, but basically the writer was saying that, as someone who had left Eckankar, she felt it had taken years for her to heal from the emotional scars. And I could really relate to that because I'm going through the same thing. Doesn't matter whether I'm still a member or not. I don't see this as a matter of just ECKists on one side, and those who have left Eckankar on the other. There are all sorts of people who are on the sidelines, still trying to work out these issues for themselves, and they don't really have anywhere to turn or anyone to talk to. This could be a forum for healing, but I guess some people are so pissed off as a result of their experiences that they jump to conclusions and make all sorts of accusations. I must have dark ulterior motives. I'm angling to become the next LEM, or start my own cult. No, not really. I've just written a book and I'd like to find some people interested in reading it. Period.

        Regarding some specific comments: 1. I don't have Eckankar on my card reading website. I have some quotes from Paul Twitchell (at least I assume they're from Paul--maybe someone will tell me they're plagiarized. That's ok. I just like the quotes). 2. The card reading thing isn't psychic at all. It's based on a metaphysical system that anyone can learn for themselves. All you have to know is how to navigate a few charts and how to interpret the symbolic language of the cards. If I were psychic, I'd be more than happy to advertise my abilities, but I'm not. 3. Yes, it doesn't require a whole lot of sleuthing to discover my name. So I guess I'm really bad at being anonymous, though I tried to be. I originally wrote the book under the name of the main character to distance myself from the narrative, but it didn't work. Purely from a marketing standpoint, I realized that I had to "own" what I'd written. Am I happier that the previous post was erased? Yes, and thanks to the moderator for that courtesy. Does that make me a coward? I guess so. But I'm still here, making my voice heard. And I would hope that people would be a little more generous and understand that it's difficult for people like me to work through our conflicts. We may have to write a book to do it. And even writing the book might not be enough. We might have to get up and defend it. And that could take more courage than even they think they have. And maybe that deserves at least some measure of good will.

        That's pretty much all I have to say. Go in peace.


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: prometheus_973
        To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, November 16, 2012 3:27 PM
        Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: "The Karma Seeker"


        Hello Sharon and All,
        S.M. sent me a message
        and wanted to have his
        name removed so that
        he couldn't be traced,
        but mentioning the book's
        title doesn't require
        much sleuthing in order
        to discover the author's
        real name (Google and
        discover his Karma-Seeker
        site... and he's on FB too!).

        Anyway, I removed one
        of his posts and was trying
        to edit his name out of
        another but I must
        have done something
        wrong and his entire
        post was removed.

        Did he send you something
        too? Maybe he's fishing
        for customers because
        the EK pond has been
        fished out?

        BTW- Someone asked to
        be able to join ESA and
        said they had nice things
        to say about Jerry Mulvin.
        I approved their membership
        out of curiosity, but they
        will be monitored until
        I can determine if their
        status should be changed.

        It's funny that Stefan does
        "Card Reading" via phone,
        yet, claims it's "not psychic."
        Apparently the spiel is that
        the technique he uses is
        "spiritual" or maybe involves
        "Quantum Physics." It kind
        of reminded of the TV show
        The Mentalist where Patrick
        Jane states that the psychic
        doesn't exist and that selling
        it is just a con/scam and
        that all he actually does
        to 'know things' is to "pay
        attention."

        I didn't check to see that
        Stefan had mentioned E-cult
        in his links. For someone
        who has the educational
        credentials that he has it
        makes one wonder about
        his inability to connect-
        the-dots and cover his
        tracks. Being an H.I. for
        a long period of time
        either makes one more
        skeptical or more delusional
        via denial.

        Of course, one could wonder
        about the same in regards to
        Klemp. Except, he's in it for
        the Prestige, Money, and Power.

        ECKists should ask: Why isn't
        the ALL KNOWING Mahanta
        Aware of his wayward H.I.s?
        Otherwise HK would do something
        about the problem like he did
        with others right? Maybe Klemp
        is only "aware" when someone
        informs him via a snail-mail
        letter like Ford did.

        The real reason for Klemp's
        inattention to what his H.I.'s
        are doing is that he's a fake
        prophet and is in it for profit!

        But, what's going on with
        HK's Secret RESA Police?
        Why hasn't this guy been
        ferreted out, detained,
        questioned, suspended
        from Satsang duties and
        reported to the ESC? Local
        H.I.s via Internet or 'phone
        tree' need to be warned
        as well! Who's the RESA
        now for Massachusetts?
        Stefan is in Boston right?

        Prometheus

        "Sharon" brighttigress wrote:
        So, another eckanborg crawls out of the woodwork, selling a book and card
        readings, much like the Twitchster when he started out - so, Stefan, what are
        you going to call your "path" when you get enough followers? Or don't you have
        a name for it yet?

        So, you're keeping your membership and HI "status" - understandable, like Jerry
        Mulvin to Ford Johnson, ekult is a good source of new members. Are you afraid
        to lose those initiations and return to the consciousness of a rock? And wander
        for eternity in astral hell until you come crawling back to "the master"?

        You don't want ECKANKAR mentioned in book reviews at Amazon? Why not? You've
        got ECKANKAR at the top of your links list at your karmaseeker website.

        It's so sad what 20 years in ekult does to people. I doubt very much if you
        "get" what's wrong with this whole picture, with what you're doing.

        I left ekult because honesty and integrity are important to me. Two qualities
        which are lacking in ekult as an organization, and in so many of its members,
        especially those who've been in it for many years.

        "a far-reaching guidebook to contemporary spirituality" ???????

        I think not.

        Sharon

        prometheus wrote:
        >
        > Hello Z and All,
        > Yes, it is my understanding
        > that he joined the E-cult
        > in 1971.
        >
        > [sorry for the reposts]
        >
        > Was "The Lost Slipper
        > of Soul" printed by
        > Eckankar?
        >
        > BTW-It seems that the
        > "Kip" character is the
        > alter ego of the author.
        > So, perhaps, HK isn't
        > all that impressive
        > of a "Master/Mahanta"
        > for this H.I., and I'm
        > thinking that he no
        > longer buys into Twit's
        > plagiarisms and fiction.
        >
        > IMO, Based upon the
        > story line, many of us
        > former long-time EK
        > leaders could have
        > written a similar book.
        > And, one could easily
        > substitute "Truth Seeker"
        > for "Karma Seeker," and
        > "ECKankar" for "League."
        >
        > FYI: I Googled his
        > Karma-Seeker website
        > where he gives "Card
        > Readings" via phone.
        > So, why would a person
        > still be an H.I. If he
        > does Card Readings?
        >
        > Here's some info on the
        > book from Amazon.
        >
        >
        > BOOK DESCRIPTION:
        >
        > "What is the true test of spirituality?
        > Is it loyalty to a master, group, or
        > teaching? Or is it having the courage
        > to act on one's deepest convictions,
        > even in the face of disapproval and
        > sanction?
        >
        > This is the question that confronts
        > Kip Morgan.
        >
        > Kip is a karma seeker—an individual
        > committed to testing himself by means
        > of his own choices. For such people,
        > who are engaged in an experiment
        > with unknown forces, there is no way
        > to prove that they are fit to discover
        > what they seek except by doing it.
        >
        > As a young man, Kip joins the League,
        > one of the burgeoning new age spiritual
        > groups of the late 1960s and early 1970s.
        > He learns the fundamentals of its teachings,
        > which involve cultivating inner experiences
        > through contemplation, dreams, and out-
        > of-body experiences.
        >
        > The high point of his experience comes
        > with his initiation into the League's inner
        > circle, a transcendent event that significantly
        > alters his view of life. It doesn't take long,
        > however, before he discovers how fragile
        > this experience is, and how difficult it is
        > to hold on to his new state of consciousness.
        >
        > Kip embarks on a quest that takes him
        > beyond the confines of the League.
        >
        > Eventually, he comes to question the
        > group's claim to exclusivity, and to see
        > it as merely a portal to a universal spiritual
        > path.
        >
        > As he becomes less reliant on the League
        > and its members for support and guidance,
        > he is torn between his personal vision of
        > truth and his fear of spiritual failure. This
        > puts him on a collision course with the League
        > President, the group's ultimate spiritual authority.
        >
        > The Karma Seeker is a far-reaching guidebook
        > to contemporary spirituality. It presents the
        > reader with the essential paradigm of the modern
        > spiritual path—its highs and lows, its rewards
        > and pitfalls. It illustrates how individuals who
        > embark on such a path are tested in the areas
        > of their greatest deficiency in order to build up
        > their spiritual strength, all so that they may
        > eventually become active participants in their
        > own destiny." [end]
        >
        >
        >
        > "zephrendhun" wrote:
        > >
        > > Dear Prom and all,
        > >
        Interesting thing about this book is that its original title was
        "The Lost Slipper of Soul " and I have that version. I also know
        the author who is a fine enough chap but I think Stefan is still
        an H.I. I believe he is an H.I. 'on the fence', so to speak. Many
        H.I.'s remain in Eckrakorn, hoping that Harry the Klempster
        will soon retire or die. Then they can see if they will become
        the next LEM or if Harry's replacement is ok, then they will
        probably continue with their delusion that Eckrakorn is a true
        spiritual path and not just the cult it is. Its tough being an
        individual and losing all of the friends and acquantences one
        encounters in the E-cult. But their true reason for excommunicating
        a long time freind is that they really have their doubts about
        this crap's truth as well. Besides after being a none E-cultist
        for a while, I have formed some significant friendships that
        really don't give a s**t what my religious views are. The road
        is lonely sometimes on one own path, but there are no lies or
        delusions. Divine Source loves spiritual renegades, just check
        out Jesus the Christ. Enuff said. Peace and chicken grease!
        > >
        > > Zephrendhun
      • prometheus_973
        Hello All, This a book review with some info on this ancient Magi Deck of 52 Card Guy (that Stefan mentioned) who sounds like Joseph Smith of LDS infamy:
        Message 3 of 3 , Nov 16, 2012
        • 0 Attachment
          Hello All,
          This a book review with some
          info on this "ancient" Magi Deck
          of 52 Card Guy (that Stefan
          mentioned) who sounds like
          Joseph Smith of LDS infamy:

          Temple Lectures of the Order of the Magi (Paperback)

          "Olney H. Richmond was the chief of the Order of the Magi, which he officially resurrected in the upper Midwest in the late 19th century. Richmond was a Civil War veteran who was told of the Order by a mysterious stranger one night while he stood guard duty at Nashville. This stranger told him that he was to be his successor and eventually passed on to him the teachings of the Magi. Further, he told Richmond that he would pass through many battles in the course of the war, but that no harm would come to him. This proved true.

          This Order of the Magi was the star religion of the ancient Chaldeans. It is said that this tradition existed 20,000 years before the birth of Christ. Indeed it was held that the three Magi of the Bible were members of this order- and that Christ himself later became an initiate. Richmond held that the Order had centers in not only Chaldea, but also Egypt and Persia. Moreover, he held that Pythagoras was a Grand Master of the Order (by way of the Egyptian temple.)

          This book contains a collection of lectures delivered by Richmond on the history, philosophy, and practices of the Order. An interesting aspect of the Order was it's extensive use of magic squares and playing cards in divination. Richmond seems to have been a natural mathematician of considerable ability (as was also attested by his skill and mathematical analysis of the game of checkers during the 19th century heyday of that sport.)"

          Below is some info from Stefan's
          Karma-Seeker website. Notice the
          reference to Eckankar that was claimed
          isn't there and, btw, the top of the page
          refers to the card reading technique as
          "The Ancient Science of Cards." Does
          that remind anyone of "The Ancient
          Science of Soul Travel?" And, aren't
          "Astro Cards" the same as Astral Cards?

          Also, what's the big deal with
          metaphysics? I explored all of
          this crap way before Eckankar.
          It's merely extreme abstract
          reasoning where good battles
          evil and time, matter, and space
          are transcended. Today it's
          probably referred to as something
          Organic or Quantum.

          Anyway, if Eckankar can make
          God an everyday reality of your life
          why are the rest of these "Spiritual
          Resources" needed and listed?

          One more thing. Who are these
          "ancients" that are supposed to
          have so much "wisdom" coming
          from a deck of 52 cards? It's
          more B.S. and con that's become
          a vocation just like with Twit,
          DG, and HK.

          I can see the need to survive
          and to rationalize by using
          what one knows, but there
          comes a point in time when
          a person must be honest and
          ethical with everyone, especially,
          ourselves. Otherwise the line
          becomes distorted and gets
          crossed more easily as time
          goes by.


          Prometheus

          > Card Science

          > Astro Cards
          >
          > Astro Cards book list and contact information
          >
          > DeckOf52: Encyclopedia Cardologia
          > The Deck of 52 is a profound system for revealing the wisdom of the ancients. This group functions as a reference for the card system first publicly introduced by Olney H. Richmond.
          >
          > K.A.R.M.A. Resources
          > Dedicated to providing paths to greater awareness, understanding relationships, and avenues of action to help you shape and change your life and destiny
          >
          > Seven Thunders Publishing
          > Home of Robert Camp, author of Destiny Cards and Love Cards
          >
          >
          >
          > Spiritual Resources
          >
          > ***
          > Eckankar: Religion of the Light and Sound of God
          > The purpose of Eckankar is to make God an everyday reality in your life.
          >
          > Stefan Meyer: "Regarding some specific comments:
          > 1. I don't have Eckankar on my card reading website."
          > ***
          > Krishnamurti Foundation of America
          > Advancing public understanding and realization of human potential through the study of the teachings of Jiddu Krishnamurti
          >
          > Ram Dass Tape Library Foundation
          > A non-profit community dedicated to preserving and distributing Ram Dass' teachings, particularly the tape recordings of his programs, which represent his special oral legacy.
          >
          > Spiritual Dialogues Project
          > Dedicated to the universal search for spiritual truth, this is a place for dialogue, a spiritual forum where you can explore your questions and find new insight.
          >
          > Local Affiliations
          > Aubrey Thompson, Clinical Nutrition Wellness Consultant
          > Offering a customized approach to building health through proper nutrition
          >
          > LaRiccia Media Productions
          > Host and executive producer of the thrice Emmy-nominated, live action PBS show, JoJo's DreamCart, video producer, and documentary filmmaker
          >
          > Open Doors Learning & Healing Center
          > Specializing in new age and holistic products. Offering workshops and classes, astrological forecasts, free services, yoga classes, and yoga teacher training
          >
          > Shunyam Productions
          > Events for yoga, meditation, and the healing arts
          >
          > Susan Baker, Holistic Nutritionist/Wellness Coach
          > Eden Energy Medicine practitioner
          >
          > Theosophical Society in Boston
          > A community of spiritually minded people who share the conviction that the pursuit of truth has many paths
          >
          > Vrindavana Preservation Society
          > A non-profit cultural organization dedicated to the preservation and promotion of Braj Culture around the world
          >
          > Yoga at the Ashram
          > The Baba Siri Chand Yoga and Retreat Center in Millis, Massachusetts
          >
          > "Stefan Meyer" wrote:
          > >
          > > Hi, All
          > >
          > > I have been glancing at these posts from time to time. I really hate the thought of having to "defend" myself on this forum. I certainly wouldn't want to get into some extended debate that went back and forth ad infinitum. But I guess I'll take one stab at replying to the general tenor of some of these posts, and then I'll retire from the fray.
          > >
          > > The reason I contacted this forum about my book was twofold. First of all--yes, I'm trying to promote the book. I don't think that wanting to promote a book is something to be ashamed of. All authors want to promote their books. If you write a book and then have no desire to promote it, I doubt that anyone's ever going to read it. So self-promotion comes with the territory of writing, even more these days when traditional book publishers are becoming marginalized, and authors often have to assume complete responsibility for their own marketing.
          > >
          > > The other reason was that a few weeks ago I just happened to land on this forum, and I read a post that honestly touched me. I can't find the post anymore, but basically the writer was saying that, as someone who had left Eckankar, she felt it had taken years for her to heal from the emotional scars. And I could really relate to that because I'm going through the same thing. Doesn't matter whether I'm still a member or not. I don't see this as a matter of just ECKists on one side, and those who have left Eckankar on the other. There are all sorts of people who are on the sidelines, still trying to work out these issues for themselves, and they don't really have anywhere to turn or anyone to talk to. This could be a forum for healing, but I guess some people are so pissed off as a result of their experiences that they jump to conclusions and make all sorts of accusations. I must have dark ulterior motives. I'm angling to become the next LEM, or start my own cult. No, not really. I've just written a book and I'd like to find some people interested in reading it. Period.
          >
          > ***
          > Regarding some specific comments:
          > 1. I don't have Eckankar on my card reading website.
          > ***
          >
          > I have some quotes from Paul Twitchell (at least I assume they're from Paul--maybe someone will tell me they're plagiarized. That's ok. I just like the quotes). 2. The card reading thing isn't psychic at all. It's based on a metaphysical system that anyone can learn for themselves. All you have to know is how to navigate a few charts and how to interpret the symbolic language of the cards. If I were psychic, I'd be more than happy to advertise my abilities, but I'm not. 3. Yes, it doesn't require a whole lot of sleuthing to discover my name. So I guess I'm really bad at being anonymous, though I tried to be. I originally wrote the book under the name of the main character to distance myself from the narrative, but it didn't work. Purely from a marketing standpoint, I realized that I had to "own" what I'd written. Am I happier that the previous post was erased? Yes, and thanks to the moderator for that courtesy. Does that make me a coward? I guess so. But I'm still here, making my voice heard. And I would hope that people would be a little more generous and understand that it's difficult for people like me to work through our conflicts. We may have to write a book to do it. And even writing the book might not be enough. We might have to get up and defend it. And that could take more courage than even they think they have. And maybe that deserves at least some measure of good will.
          > >
          > > That's pretty much all I have to say. Go in peace.
          > >
          > >
          > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > From: prometheus_973
          > > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
          > > Sent: Friday, November 16, 2012 3:27 PM
          > > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: "The Karma Seeker"
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Hello Sharon and All,
          > > S.M. sent me a message
          > > and wanted to have his
          > > name removed so that
          > > he couldn't be traced,
          > > but mentioning the book's
          > > title doesn't require
          > > much sleuthing in order
          > > to discover the author's
          > > real name (Google and
          > > discover his Karma-Seeker
          > > site... and he's on FB too!).
          > >
          > > Anyway, I removed one
          > > of his posts and was trying
          > > to edit his name out of
          > > another but I must
          > > have done something
          > > wrong and his entire
          > > post was removed.
          > >
          > > Did he send you something
          > > too? Maybe he's fishing
          > > for customers because
          > > the EK pond has been
          > > fished out?
          > >
          > > BTW- Someone asked to
          > > be able to join ESA and
          > > said they had nice things
          > > to say about Jerry Mulvin.
          > > I approved their membership
          > > out of curiosity, but they
          > > will be monitored until
          > > I can determine if their
          > > status should be changed.
          > >
          > > It's funny that Stefan does
          > > "Card Reading" via phone,
          > > yet, claims it's "not psychic."
          > > Apparently the spiel is that
          > > the technique he uses is
          > > "spiritual" or maybe involves
          > > "Quantum Physics." It kind
          > > of reminded of the TV show
          > > The Mentalist where Patrick
          > > Jane states that the psychic
          > > doesn't exist and that selling
          > > it is just a con/scam and
          > > that all he actually does
          > > to 'know things' is to "pay
          > > attention."
          > >
          > > I didn't check to see that
          > > Stefan had mentioned E-cult
          > > in his links. For someone
          > > who has the educational
          > > credentials that he has it
          > > makes one wonder about
          > > his inability to connect-
          > > the-dots and cover his
          > > tracks. Being an H.I. for
          > > a long period of time
          > > either makes one more
          > > skeptical or more delusional
          > > via denial.
          > >
          > > Of course, one could wonder
          > > about the same in regards to
          > > Klemp. Except, he's in it for
          > > the Prestige, Money, and Power.
          > >
          > > ECKists should ask: Why isn't
          > > the ALL KNOWING Mahanta
          > > Aware of his wayward H.I.s?
          > > Otherwise HK would do something
          > > about the problem like he did
          > > with others right? Maybe Klemp
          > > is only "aware" when someone
          > > informs him via a snail-mail
          > > letter like Ford did.
          > >
          > > The real reason for Klemp's
          > > inattention to what his H.I.'s
          > > are doing is that he's a fake
          > > prophet and is in it for profit!
          > >
          > > But, what's going on with
          > > HK's Secret RESA Police?
          > > Why hasn't this guy been
          > > ferreted out, detained,
          > > questioned, suspended
          > > from Satsang duties and
          > > reported to the ESC? Local
          > > H.I.s via Internet or 'phone
          > > tree' need to be warned
          > > as well! Who's the RESA
          > > now for Massachusetts?
          > > Stefan is in Boston right?
          > >
          > > Prometheus
          > >
          > > "Sharon" brighttigress wrote:
          > > So, another eckanborg crawls out of the woodwork, selling a book and card
          > > readings, much like the Twitchster when he started out - so, Stefan, what are
          > > you going to call your "path" when you get enough followers? Or don't you have
          > > a name for it yet?
          > >
          > > So, you're keeping your membership and HI "status" - understandable, like Jerry
          > > Mulvin to Ford Johnson, ekult is a good source of new members. Are you afraid
          > > to lose those initiations and return to the consciousness of a rock? And wander
          > > for eternity in astral hell until you come crawling back to "the master"?
          > >
          > > You don't want ECKANKAR mentioned in book reviews at Amazon? Why not? You've
          > > got ECKANKAR at the top of your links list at your karmaseeker website.
          > >
          > > It's so sad what 20 years in ekult does to people. I doubt very much if you
          > > "get" what's wrong with this whole picture, with what you're doing.
          > >
          > > I left ekult because honesty and integrity are important to me. Two qualities
          > > which are lacking in ekult as an organization, and in so many of its members,
          > > especially those who've been in it for many years.
          > >
          > > "a far-reaching guidebook to contemporary spirituality" ???????
          > >
          > > I think not.
          > >
          > > Sharon
          > >
          > > prometheus wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Hello Z and All,
          > > > Yes, it is my understanding
          > > > that he joined the E-cult
          > > > in 1971.
          > > >
          > > > [sorry for the reposts]
          > > >
          > > > Was "The Lost Slipper
          > > > of Soul" printed by
          > > > Eckankar?
          > > >
          > > > BTW-It seems that the
          > > > "Kip" character is the
          > > > alter ego of the author.
          > > > So, perhaps, HK isn't
          > > > all that impressive
          > > > of a "Master/Mahanta"
          > > > for this H.I., and I'm
          > > > thinking that he no
          > > > longer buys into Twit's
          > > > plagiarisms and fiction.
          > > >
          > > > IMO, Based upon the
          > > > story line, many of us
          > > > former long-time EK
          > > > leaders could have
          > > > written a similar book.
          > > > And, one could easily
          > > > substitute "Truth Seeker"
          > > > for "Karma Seeker," and
          > > > "ECKankar" for "League."
          > > >
          > > > FYI: I Googled his
          > > > Karma-Seeker website
          > > > where he gives "Card
          > > > Readings" via phone.
          > > > So, why would a person
          > > > still be an H.I. If he
          > > > does Card Readings?
          > > >
          > > > Here's some info on the
          > > > book from Amazon.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > BOOK DESCRIPTION:
          > > >
          > > > "What is the true test of spirituality?
          > > > Is it loyalty to a master, group, or
          > > > teaching? Or is it having the courage
          > > > to act on one's deepest convictions,
          > > > even in the face of disapproval and
          > > > sanction?
          > > >
          > > > This is the question that confronts
          > > > Kip Morgan.
          > > >
          > > > Kip is a karma seeker-an individual
          > > > committed to testing himself by means
          > > > of his own choices. For such people,
          > > > who are engaged in an experiment
          > > > with unknown forces, there is no way
          > > > to prove that they are fit to discover
          > > > what they seek except by doing it.
          > > >
          > > > As a young man, Kip joins the League,
          > > > one of the burgeoning new age spiritual
          > > > groups of the late 1960s and early 1970s.
          > > > He learns the fundamentals of its teachings,
          > > > which involve cultivating inner experiences
          > > > through contemplation, dreams, and out-
          > > > of-body experiences.
          > > >
          > > > The high point of his experience comes
          > > > with his initiation into the League's inner
          > > > circle, a transcendent event that significantly
          > > > alters his view of life. It doesn't take long,
          > > > however, before he discovers how fragile
          > > > this experience is, and how difficult it is
          > > > to hold on to his new state of consciousness.
          > > >
          > > > Kip embarks on a quest that takes him
          > > > beyond the confines of the League.
          > > >
          > > > Eventually, he comes to question the
          > > > group's claim to exclusivity, and to see
          > > > it as merely a portal to a universal spiritual
          > > > path.
          > > >
          > > > As he becomes less reliant on the League
          > > > and its members for support and guidance,
          > > > he is torn between his personal vision of
          > > > truth and his fear of spiritual failure. This
          > > > puts him on a collision course with the League
          > > > President, the group's ultimate spiritual authority.
          > > >
          > > > The Karma Seeker is a far-reaching guidebook
          > > > to contemporary spirituality. It presents the
          > > > reader with the essential paradigm of the modern
          > > > spiritual path-its highs and lows, its rewards
          > > > and pitfalls. It illustrates how individuals who
          > > > embark on such a path are tested in the areas
          > > > of their greatest deficiency in order to build up
          > > > their spiritual strength, all so that they may
          > > > eventually become active participants in their
          > > > own destiny." [end]
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > "zephrendhun" wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > Dear Prom and all,
          > > > >
          > > Interesting thing about this book is that its original title was
          > > "The Lost Slipper of Soul " and I have that version. I also know
          > > the author who is a fine enough chap but I think Stefan is still
          > > an H.I. I believe he is an H.I. 'on the fence', so to speak. Many
          > > H.I.'s remain in Eckrakorn, hoping that Harry the Klempster
          > > will soon retire or die. Then they can see if they will become
          > > the next LEM or if Harry's replacement is ok, then they will
          > > probably continue with their delusion that Eckrakorn is a true
          > > spiritual path and not just the cult it is. Its tough being an
          > > individual and losing all of the friends and acquantences one
          > > encounters in the E-cult. But their true reason for excommunicating
          > > a long time freind is that they really have their doubts about
          > > this crap's truth as well. Besides after being a none E-cultist
          > > for a while, I have formed some significant friendships that
          > > really don't give a s**t what my religious views are. The road
          > > is lonely sometimes on one own path, but there are no lies or
          > > delusions. Divine Source loves spiritual renegades, just check
          > > out Jesus the Christ. Enuff said. Peace and chicken grease!
          > > > >
          > > > > Zephrendhun
          > >
          >
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