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Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: An article that mentions klemp

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  • Russ Rodnick
    our innate feeling of anger that drives us to resist the bullshit of the cult and its illogical, improbable and absurd notions   This may be your experience
    Message 1 of 11 , Nov 14, 2012
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      our innate feeling of anger that drives us to resist the bullshit of the cult and its illogical, improbable and absurd notions
       
      This may be your experience but it isn't mine. All this is is justification of anger as if anger is the best we have. It's about survival, when threatened we either succumb or fight back. It's instinct and necessary but to continue to be angry after the threat is gone is not in my opinion a healthy place. But it's a choice. Anger may have gotten you out of Eckankar but for me it was just that I couldn't justify the contradictions anymore and why should I?
       
      The reality of the higher planes is real; so thanks to Eckankar for the cosmology because it gave me a better picture of reality. (I know, they plaigarized the cosmology) but this is where I really go it. I parted ways with them over the whole "Mahanta, the LEM" thing.
       
      I still say, whatever gets you through the night. I found that I don't need to have my hand held, so to speak. But anger? Nah, I reject that, beyond the situation where I said shove it.
       
      It burns if you keep manifesting it and becomes your chronic state. At least this is MY experience.
       
      Russ

      From: harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...>
      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 2:56 PM
      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: An article that mentions klemp
       
      I would have to say that the opposite of fear is a lack of concern or even courage, but not anger. But I would agree that fear is a device used by klemp just as it is used by all religions to keep people in line and from challenging the leader.

      Anger isn't a bad thing and I remember hearing from eckists, including klemp and a current family member who is still in the cult, that anger is a weakness. Of course it makes sense that they would say this because it is our innate feeling of anger that drives us to resist the bullshit of the cult and its illogical, improbable and absurd notions.

      --- In mailto:EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous%40yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer <jepfeiffer@...> wrote:
      >
      > Thanks for the article.  The truth is Klemp can't conceive that any eckist would feel anger or at least not toward him or eckankar because after all how could they, since eckankar and the mahanta is the answer for everything in their lives.  In eckankar anger is very wrong and is believed to show a lack of adjustment to the concepts of eckankar.  It means you are not properly brain washed.  While in, I think I felt more bewildered than angry.
      >  
      > Klemp doesn't care that all of us who woke up from our eckankar induced stupor are angry about the lies and deceit because we are now considered unworthy misfits anyway.  If I am remembering right, supposedly, according to eckankar, we are all damned for simply walking away and will have to re-ingratiate ourselves at some point with our present lem.  Perish the thought! 
      >  
      > Fear is what eckankar uses to keep people from guestioning the lem or the operation of the org.  Anger is the opposite of fear.  So therefore, angry eckist would only be those who are ready to get out of eckankar.   Of course that is undesirable in an eckist and  one of the main reasons you aren't allowed to ask questions about why Paul lied and why they continue to lie to get new people in.  I believe when you learn the truth about how eckankar was founded and how it operates, you come to a changing point.  You either become self delusional to stay in or the lies drive you away.
      >  
      > Instead of eckankar admitting that the lies are a problem, they label the ones who are offended by the lies as misfits.  The whole concept is insane in itself for an org that talks so much about spiritual truth.  How can you justify obviously lies and call it spiritual truth?  That is what they do and if you don't buy it, you are of no use to them.  You are not willing to deceive yourself for the sake of eckankar. 
      >  
      > My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so disturbing for you?  Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling?  Can you clarify for yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to you? 
      >  
      > The article speaks of how anger can be a good catalyst for needed change.  I think that is the key to handling it well.  Anger is something normal that we all feel.  To say different would be a lie.  I think when anger is acute, it shows a need to change whatever causes it whether it is a change in self or the external conditions that caused it.  I believe that is what prompted most of us to get out of insane eckankar. 
      >  
      > You are as normal as anyone else with your anger.  I hope you can clarify it and use it for your own good.  You obviously are most intelligent and capable of handling it.
      >  
      > With much high regards from another feeling eckist.  good luck and please be kind to yourself. 
      >
      > --- On Sat, 11/10/12, harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > From: harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...>
      > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] An article that mentions klemp
      > To: mailto:EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous%40yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Saturday, November 10, 2012, 7:26 PM
      >
      >
      >
      >  
      >
      >
      >
      > Here's an article mentioning klemp and the anger nonsense he instills in people.
      >
      > http://moosebusiness.com/anger-doesnt-always-need-managing/
      >

    • harrisonferrel
      Your question: My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so disturbing for you? Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling? Can you
      Message 2 of 11 , Dec 10, 2012
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        Your question: "My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so disturbing for you? Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling? Can you clarify for yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to you? "


        ANSWER: Through Eckankar I've met a number of people who talked about anger being an evil of sorts. This is a common thread among cults — to call someone angry. The idea is basically to keep people from getting angry at the nonsense you're peddling. Klemp and Twitchell talked about the evils of anger. The problem of course is that anger is a tool that any normal mind has; it motivates people to stand up for themselves and to oppose groups like eckankar that are trying to get away with injuring people.



        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "harrisonferrel" <harrisonferrel@...> wrote:
        >
        > I would have to say that the opposite of fear is a lack of concern or even courage, but not anger. But I would agree that fear is a device used by klemp just as it is used by all religions to keep people in line and from challenging the leader.
        >
        > Anger isn't a bad thing and I remember hearing from eckists, including klemp and a current family member who is still in the cult, that anger is a weakness. Of course it makes sense that they would say this because it is our innate feeling of anger that drives us to resist the bullshit of the cult and its illogical, improbable and absurd notions.
        >
        > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer <jepfeiffer@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Thanks for the article.  The truth is Klemp can't conceive that any eckist would feel anger or at least not toward him or eckankar because after all how could they, since eckankar and the mahanta is the answer for everything in their lives.  In eckankar anger is very wrong and is believed to show a lack of adjustment to the concepts of eckankar.  It means you are not properly brain washed.  While in, I think I felt more bewildered than angry.
        > >  
        > > Klemp doesn't care that all of us who woke up from our eckankar induced stupor are angry about the lies and deceit because we are now considered unworthy misfits anyway.  If I am remembering right, supposedly, according to eckankar, we are all damned for simply walking away and will have to re-ingratiate ourselves at some point with our present lem.  Perish the thought! 
        > >  
        > > Fear is what eckankar uses to keep people from guestioning the lem or the operation of the org.  Anger is the opposite of fear.  So therefore, angry eckist would only be those who are ready to get out of eckankar.   Of course that is undesirable in an eckist and  one of the main reasons you aren't allowed to ask questions about why Paul lied and why they continue to lie to get new people in.  I believe when you learn the truth about how eckankar was founded and how it operates, you come to a changing point.  You either become self delusional to stay in or the lies drive you away.
        > >  
        > > Instead of eckankar admitting that the lies are a problem, they label the ones who are offended by the lies as misfits.  The whole concept is insane in itself for an org that talks so much about spiritual truth.  How can you justify obviously lies and call it spiritual truth?  That is what they do and if you don't buy it, you are of no use to them.  You are not willing to deceive yourself for the sake of eckankar. 
        > >  
        > > My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so disturbing for you?  Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling?  Can you clarify for yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to you? 
        > >  
        > > The article speaks of how anger can be a good catalyst for needed change.  I think that is the key to handling it well.  Anger is something normal that we all feel.  To say different would be a lie.  I think when anger is acute, it shows a need to change whatever causes it whether it is a change in self or the external conditions that caused it.  I believe that is what prompted most of us to get out of insane eckankar. 
        > >  
        > > You are as normal as anyone else with your anger.  I hope you can clarify it and use it for your own good.  You obviously are most intelligent and capable of handling it.
        > >  
        > > With much high regards from another feeling eckist.  good luck and please be kind to yourself. 
        > >
        > > --- On Sat, 11/10/12, harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@> wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > > From: harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@>
        > > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] An article that mentions klemp
        > > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
        > > Date: Saturday, November 10, 2012, 7:26 PM
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >  
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Here's an article mentioning klemp and the anger nonsense he instills in people.
        > >
        > > http://moosebusiness.com/anger-doesnt-always-need-managing/
        > >
        >
      • prometheus_973
        Hello Harrison and All, Most Eck H.I.s are as two-faced as Klemp. One face is shown when in public and the other face is shown when doing EK business. I ve
        Message 3 of 11 , Dec 10, 2012
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          Hello Harrison and All,
          Most Eck H.I.s are as
          two-faced as Klemp.
          One face is shown when
          in public and the other
          face is shown when
          doing EK business.

          I've angered other
          H.I.s so much (regarding
          EK business) that
          they've hung up on
          me! One was a RESA!
          I was the one frustrated
          with getting people
          (H.I.s) attuned to the
          programs or positions
          they had signed up
          for. The business side
          of Eckankar was very
          stressful, not fun, and
          was very unrewarding.

          So, being nice, for
          many H.I.s, is all an
          act. And most times
          the business side of
          Eckankar brings it out.
          Their angry and negative
          tendencies are merely
          denied, hidden, and
          swept under the rug
          "as if" it doesn't exist.
          Just put on a happy face!

          However, the biggest
          EK excuse is that the
          anger was "mocked up"
          in order to express
          a point or to better
          communicate with
          someone on a lower
          level of consciousness.
          I'm sure you wouldn't
          be surprised to know
          how often this excuse
          is used.

          Twitchell was good
          at making up excuses
          when questioned about
          contradictions of non-
          spiritual behaviour of
          his H.I.s such as anger.
          But, Twitchell was an
          expert liar, manipulator,
          and conman. He had
          to cover-up his own
          hypocrisy (as does Klemp)
          and that of his long-time
          followers with convincing
          rationalizations. EKists
          merely pretend, dream,
          deny the truth, and play
          the game of follow-the-
          leader.

          Prometheus

          harrisonferrel wrote:
          Your question: "My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so
          disturbing for you? Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling? Can you
          clarify for yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to
          you? "


          ANSWER: Through Eckankar I've met a number of people who talked about anger
          being an evil of sorts. This is a common thread among cults — to call someone
          angry. The idea is basically to keep people from getting angry at the nonsense
          you're peddling. Klemp and Twitchell talked about the evils of anger. The
          problem of course is that anger is a tool that any normal mind has; it motivates
          people to stand up for themselves and to oppose groups like eckankar that are
          trying to get away with injuring people.




          <harrisonferrel wrote:
          >
          > I would have to say that the opposite of fear is a lack of concern or even
          courage, but not anger. But I would agree that fear is a device used by klemp
          just as it is used by all religions to keep people in line and from challenging
          the leader.
          >
          > Anger isn't a bad thing and I remember hearing from eckists, including klemp
          and a current family member who is still in the cult, that anger is a weakness.
          Of course it makes sense that they would say this because it is our innate
          feeling of anger that drives us to resist the bullshit of the cult and its
          illogical, improbable and absurd notions.
          >
          Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
          > >
          > > Thanks for the article. The truth is Klemp can't conceive that any eckist
          would feel anger or at least not toward him or eckankar because after all how
          could they, since eckankar and the mahanta is the answer for everything in their
          lives. In eckankar anger is very wrong and is believed to show a lack of
          adjustment to the concepts of eckankar. It means you are not properly brain
          washed. While in, I think I felt more bewildered than angry.
          > >
          > > Klemp doesn't care that all of us who woke up from our eckankar induced
          stupor are angry about the lies and deceit because we are now considered
          unworthy misfits anyway. If I am remembering right, supposedly, according to
          eckankar, we are all damned for simply walking away and will have to
          re-ingratiate ourselves at some point with our present lem. Perish the
          thought!
          > >
          > > Fear is what eckankar uses to keep people from guestioning the lem or the
          operation of the org. Anger is the opposite of fear. So therefore, angry
          eckist would only be those who are ready to get out of eckankar. Of course
          that is undesirable in an eckist and one of the main reasons you aren't
          allowed to ask questions about why Paul lied and why they continue to lie to get
          new people in. I believe when you learn the truth about how eckankar was
          founded and how it operates, you come to a changing point. You either become
          self delusional to stay in or the lies drive you away.
          > >
          > > Instead of eckankar admitting that the lies are a problem, they label the
          ones who are offended by the lies as misfits. The whole concept is insane in
          itself for an org that talks so much about spiritual truth. How can you
          justify obviously lies and call it spiritual truth? That is what they do and
          if you don't buy it, you are of no use to them. You are not willing to deceive
          yourself for the sake of eckankar.
          > >
          > > My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so disturbing for
          you? Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling? Can you clarify for
          yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to you?
          > >
          > > The article speaks of how anger can be a good catalyst for needed change.
          I think that is the key to handling it well. Anger is something normal that we
          all feel. To say different would be a lie. I think when anger is acute, it
          shows a need to change whatever causes it whether it is a change in self or the
          external conditions that caused it. I believe that is what prompted most of us
          to get out of insane eckankar.
          > >
          > > You are as normal as anyone else with your anger. I hope you can clarify
          it and use it for your own good. You obviously are most intelligent and
          capable of handling it.
          > >
          > > With much high regards from another feeling eckist. good luck and please
          be kind to yourself.
          > >
          harrisonferrel wrote:
          > >

          > >
          > > Here's an article mentioning klemp and the anger nonsense he instills in
          people.
          > >
          http://moosebusiness.com/anger-doesnt-always-need-managing/
        • postekcon
          I consider anger to be one of the most important human traits, and one which separates us from the animal kingdom. Most folks are afraid of anger. They think
          Message 4 of 11 , Dec 10, 2012
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            I consider 'anger' to be one of the most important human traits, and one which separates us from the animal kingdom. Most folks are afraid of anger. They think it just means hollering at your neighbor or life etc. But on a scale of one to ten, that's at the high end.

            Without anger, the human race would behave in zombie fashion, there would be no enterprise, no advancement, no athletes etc., no betterment in anything at all. I am not a medical person, but I know there there is a link between adrenaline and anger. The rising of adrenaline is linked to survival and 'get-up-and-go'. In humans anger is a natural emotional response which directly triggers adrenaline. I believe that without adrenaline there would be no human action for change or betterment etc.

            This is why in ekult 'anger' is incorrectly portrayed as an evil passion of the mind, and so much attention is put upon its natural suppression. Ekult's objective is to have passive zombie followers - and it works!
            -Postekcon


            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hello Harrison and All,
            > Most Eck H.I.s are as
            > two-faced as Klemp.
            > One face is shown when
            > in public and the other
            > face is shown when
            > doing EK business.
            >
            > I've angered other
            > H.I.s so much (regarding
            > EK business) that
            > they've hung up on
            > me! One was a RESA!
            > I was the one frustrated
            > with getting people
            > (H.I.s) attuned to the
            > programs or positions
            > they had signed up
            > for. The business side
            > of Eckankar was very
            > stressful, not fun, and
            > was very unrewarding.
            >
            > So, being nice, for
            > many H.I.s, is all an
            > act. And most times
            > the business side of
            > Eckankar brings it out.
            > Their angry and negative
            > tendencies are merely
            > denied, hidden, and
            > swept under the rug
            > "as if" it doesn't exist.
            > Just put on a happy face!
            >
            > However, the biggest
            > EK excuse is that the
            > anger was "mocked up"
            > in order to express
            > a point or to better
            > communicate with
            > someone on a lower
            > level of consciousness.
            > I'm sure you wouldn't
            > be surprised to know
            > how often this excuse
            > is used.
            >
            > Twitchell was good
            > at making up excuses
            > when questioned about
            > contradictions of non-
            > spiritual behaviour of
            > his H.I.s such as anger.
            > But, Twitchell was an
            > expert liar, manipulator,
            > and conman. He had
            > to cover-up his own
            > hypocrisy (as does Klemp)
            > and that of his long-time
            > followers with convincing
            > rationalizations. EKists
            > merely pretend, dream,
            > deny the truth, and play
            > the game of follow-the-
            > leader.
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            > harrisonferrel wrote:
            > Your question: "My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so
            > disturbing for you? Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling? Can you
            > clarify for yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to
            > you? "
            >
            >
            > ANSWER: Through Eckankar I've met a number of people who talked about anger
            > being an evil of sorts. This is a common thread among cults — to call someone
            > angry. The idea is basically to keep people from getting angry at the nonsense
            > you're peddling. Klemp and Twitchell talked about the evils of anger. The
            > problem of course is that anger is a tool that any normal mind has; it motivates
            > people to stand up for themselves and to oppose groups like eckankar that are
            > trying to get away with injuring people.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > <harrisonferrel wrote:
            > >
            > > I would have to say that the opposite of fear is a lack of concern or even
            > courage, but not anger. But I would agree that fear is a device used by klemp
            > just as it is used by all religions to keep people in line and from challenging
            > the leader.
            > >
            > > Anger isn't a bad thing and I remember hearing from eckists, including klemp
            > and a current family member who is still in the cult, that anger is a weakness.
            > Of course it makes sense that they would say this because it is our innate
            > feeling of anger that drives us to resist the bullshit of the cult and its
            > illogical, improbable and absurd notions.
            > >
            > Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Thanks for the article. The truth is Klemp can't conceive that any eckist
            > would feel anger or at least not toward him or eckankar because after all how
            > could they, since eckankar and the mahanta is the answer for everything in their
            > lives. In eckankar anger is very wrong and is believed to show a lack of
            > adjustment to the concepts of eckankar. It means you are not properly brain
            > washed. While in, I think I felt more bewildered than angry.
            > > >
            > > > Klemp doesn't care that all of us who woke up from our eckankar induced
            > stupor are angry about the lies and deceit because we are now considered
            > unworthy misfits anyway. If I am remembering right, supposedly, according to
            > eckankar, we are all damned for simply walking away and will have to
            > re-ingratiate ourselves at some point with our present lem. Perish the
            > thought!
            > > >
            > > > Fear is what eckankar uses to keep people from guestioning the lem or the
            > operation of the org. Anger is the opposite of fear. So therefore, angry
            > eckist would only be those who are ready to get out of eckankar. Of course
            > that is undesirable in an eckist and one of the main reasons you aren't
            > allowed to ask questions about why Paul lied and why they continue to lie to get
            > new people in. I believe when you learn the truth about how eckankar was
            > founded and how it operates, you come to a changing point. You either become
            > self delusional to stay in or the lies drive you away.
            > > >
            > > > Instead of eckankar admitting that the lies are a problem, they label the
            > ones who are offended by the lies as misfits. The whole concept is insane in
            > itself for an org that talks so much about spiritual truth. How can you
            > justify obviously lies and call it spiritual truth? That is what they do and
            > if you don't buy it, you are of no use to them. You are not willing to deceive
            > yourself for the sake of eckankar.
            > > >
            > > > My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so disturbing for
            > you? Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling? Can you clarify for
            > yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to you?
            > > >
            > > > The article speaks of how anger can be a good catalyst for needed change.
            > I think that is the key to handling it well. Anger is something normal that we
            > all feel. To say different would be a lie. I think when anger is acute, it
            > shows a need to change whatever causes it whether it is a change in self or the
            > external conditions that caused it. I believe that is what prompted most of us
            > to get out of insane eckankar.
            > > >
            > > > You are as normal as anyone else with your anger. I hope you can clarify
            > it and use it for your own good. You obviously are most intelligent and
            > capable of handling it.
            > > >
            > > > With much high regards from another feeling eckist. good luck and please
            > be kind to yourself.
            > > >
            > harrisonferrel wrote:
            > > >
            >
            > > >
            > > > Here's an article mentioning klemp and the anger nonsense he instills in
            > people.
            > > >
            > http://moosebusiness.com/anger-doesnt-always-need-managing/
            >
          • prometheus_973
            Hello Postekcon and All, I agree that anger is natural, and normal for humans to express and to feel. Controlling it is important, however, Eckankar is all
            Message 5 of 11 , Dec 10, 2012
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              Hello Postekcon and All,
              I agree that anger is natural,
              and normal for humans
              to express and to feel.
              Controlling it is important,
              however, Eckankar is all
              about over control while
              denying feelings (emotions)
              and expressing them because
              these are of the Astral (2nd)
              Plane and that's bad. ECKists
              pretend they're not of
              the earth (physical) Plane.

              [How does that work with
              DNA and ancestry? Just
              ignore it right! I'll bet the
              EKists that get caught up
              with the ancestry thing
              don't get promoted if the
              RESA's spys hear about it
              and squeal on them. Soul
              has no DNA or ancestry
              that can be traced but
              through dreams, correct?
              And, Soul is neither male
              or female too, right?]

              Eckists need to believe
              that they're higher and
              more spiritually advanced
              than all others, but fail
              to realize that this is the
              same lie that all other
              religions tell their members.
              It's a trap for the ego.
              ECKists even have a scale
              with their so-called 'level"
              number printed upon
              a membership card that
              they paid for. That means
              it's all real and these guys
              are truly spiritual giants
              and highly evolved Souls.
              It's in print for God's sake!

              Honestly, would these
              nice and friendly EK people
              lie about all of this stuff?
              Klemp does that's for sure!
              Or, are these EKists as
              deluded as many Christians
              are and actually believe
              this crap? YES! ECKists are
              just as gullible and deluded
              with faith and belief as
              are Christians, Jews, Muslims,
              Mormons, Scientologists,
              etc.

              Prometheus


              postekcon wrote:
              I consider 'anger' to be one of the most important human traits, and one which
              separates us from the animal kingdom. Most folks are afraid of anger. They think
              it just means hollering at your neighbor or life etc. But on a scale of one to
              ten, that's at the high end.

              Without anger, the human race would behave in zombie fashion, there would be no
              enterprise, no advancement, no athletes etc., no betterment in anything at all.
              I am not a medical person, but I know there there is a link between adrenaline
              and anger. The rising of adrenaline is linked to survival and 'get-up-and-go'.
              In humans anger is a natural emotional response which directly triggers
              adrenaline. I believe that without adrenaline there would be no human action for
              change or betterment etc.

              This is why in ekult 'anger' is incorrectly portrayed as an evil passion of the
              mind, and so much attention is put upon its natural suppression. Ekult's
              objective is to have passive zombie followers - and it works!
              -Postekcon


              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
              <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hello Harrison and All,
              > Most Eck H.I.s are as
              > two-faced as Klemp.
              > One face is shown when
              > in public and the other
              > face is shown when
              > doing EK business.
              >
              > I've angered other
              > H.I.s so much (regarding
              > EK business) that
              > they've hung up on
              > me! One was a RESA!
              > I was the one frustrated
              > with getting people
              > (H.I.s) attuned to the
              > programs or positions
              > they had signed up
              > for. The business side
              > of Eckankar was very
              > stressful, not fun, and
              > was very unrewarding.
              >
              > So, being nice, for
              > many H.I.s, is all an
              > act. And most times
              > the business side of
              > Eckankar brings it out.
              > Their angry and negative
              > tendencies are merely
              > denied, hidden, and
              > swept under the rug
              > "as if" it doesn't exist.
              > Just put on a happy face!
              >
              > However, the biggest
              > EK excuse is that the
              > anger was "mocked up"
              > in order to express
              > a point or to better
              > communicate with
              > someone on a lower
              > level of consciousness.
              > I'm sure you wouldn't
              > be surprised to know
              > how often this excuse
              > is used.
              >
              > Twitchell was good
              > at making up excuses
              > when questioned about
              > contradictions of non-
              > spiritual behaviour of
              > his H.I.s such as anger.
              > But, Twitchell was an
              > expert liar, manipulator,
              > and conman. He had
              > to cover-up his own
              > hypocrisy (as does Klemp)
              > and that of his long-time
              > followers with convincing
              > rationalizations. EKists
              > merely pretend, dream,
              > deny the truth, and play
              > the game of follow-the-
              > leader.
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              > harrisonferrel wrote:
              > Your question: "My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so
              > disturbing for you? Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling? Can you
              > clarify for yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to
              > you? "
              >
              >
              > ANSWER: Through Eckankar I've met a number of people who talked about anger
              > being an evil of sorts. This is a common thread among cults — to call someone
              > angry. The idea is basically to keep people from getting angry at the nonsense
              > you're peddling. Klemp and Twitchell talked about the evils of anger. The
              > problem of course is that anger is a tool that any normal mind has; it
              motivates
              > people to stand up for themselves and to oppose groups like eckankar that are
              > trying to get away with injuring people.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > <harrisonferrel wrote:
              > >
              > > I would have to say that the opposite of fear is a lack of concern or even
              > courage, but not anger. But I would agree that fear is a device used by klemp
              > just as it is used by all religions to keep people in line and from
              challenging
              > the leader.
              > >
              > > Anger isn't a bad thing and I remember hearing from eckists, including klemp
              > and a current family member who is still in the cult, that anger is a
              weakness.
              > Of course it makes sense that they would say this because it is our innate
              > feeling of anger that drives us to resist the bullshit of the cult and its
              > illogical, improbable and absurd notions.
              > >
              > Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Thanks for the article. The truth is Klemp can't conceive that any eckist
              > would feel anger or at least not toward him or eckankar because after all how
              > could they, since eckankar and the mahanta is the answer for everything in
              their
              > lives. In eckankar anger is very wrong and is believed to show a lack of
              > adjustment to the concepts of eckankar. It means you are not properly brain
              > washed. While in, I think I felt more bewildered than angry.
              > > >
              > > > Klemp doesn't care that all of us who woke up from our eckankar induced
              > stupor are angry about the lies and deceit because we are now considered
              > unworthy misfits anyway. If I am remembering right, supposedly, according to
              > eckankar, we are all damned for simply walking away and will have to
              > re-ingratiate ourselves at some point with our present lem. Perish the
              > thought!
              > > >
              > > > Fear is what eckankar uses to keep people from guestioning the lem or the
              > operation of the org. Anger is the opposite of fear. So therefore, angry
              > eckist would only be those who are ready to get out of eckankar. Of course
              > that is undesirable in an eckist and one of the main reasons you aren't
              > allowed to ask questions about why Paul lied and why they continue to lie to
              get
              > new people in. I believe when you learn the truth about how eckankar was
              > founded and how it operates, you come to a changing point. You either become
              > self delusional to stay in or the lies drive you away.
              > > >
              > > > Instead of eckankar admitting that the lies are a problem, they label the
              > ones who are offended by the lies as misfits. The whole concept is insane in
              > itself for an org that talks so much about spiritual truth. How can you
              > justify obviously lies and call it spiritual truth? That is what they do and
              > if you don't buy it, you are of no use to them. You are not willing to
              deceive
              > yourself for the sake of eckankar.
              > > >
              > > > My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so disturbing for
              > you? Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling? Can you clarify for
              > yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to you?
              > > >
              > > > The article speaks of how anger can be a good catalyst for needed change.
              > I think that is the key to handling it well. Anger is something normal that
              we
              > all feel. To say different would be a lie. I think when anger is acute, it
              > shows a need to change whatever causes it whether it is a change in self or
              the
              > external conditions that caused it. I believe that is what prompted most of
              us
              > to get out of insane eckankar.
              > > >
              > > > You are as normal as anyone else with your anger. I hope you can clarify
              > it and use it for your own good. You obviously are most intelligent and
              > capable of handling it.
              > > >
              > > > With much high regards from another feeling eckist. good luck and please
              > be kind to yourself.
              > > >
              > harrisonferrel wrote:
              > > >
              >
              > > >
              > > > Here's an article mentioning klemp and the anger nonsense he instills in
              > people.
              > > >
              > http://moosebusiness.com/anger-doesnt-always-need-managing/
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