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Re: An article that mentions klemp

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  • Non
    For my few cents worth, whether anger or fear has an opposite is interesting. Lack of anger may be apathy, but it also may be denial and delusion. Repression
    Message 1 of 11 , Nov 14, 2012
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      For my few cents worth, whether anger or fear has an opposite is interesting. Lack of anger may be apathy, but it also may be denial and delusion. Repression of anger may lead to depression and then even fear of all emotions, hence the eck indifference called Love.

      Then again, anger and fear are very closely tied together biologically in the fight/flight response. If this is shut down too much, you just become mush mush, an eck blob borg, or a hypocritical abuser of those lower in initiations. Such is the Way of a False hierarchical RELIGION/CULT eckankar.

      I've been seeing ADS in the Newspaper for eckankar "Worship Services" in the section with all the other Churches, competing and quite a few more New Age "Secret" type religions/Cults. Man, take your pick. eckankar is just worse, in my book because of the godman living eck master crap, which they don't advertise up front and that is just dishonest.

      Non ; )

      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer <jepfeiffer@...> wrote:
      >
      > I guess that what I meant was that once a person recognizes the fear that he has allowed to over come his senses, a natural reaction is to then get angry.  I know I felt very angry for the first few years after I left. 
      >
      > --- On Tue, 11/13/12, harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > From: harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...>
      > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: An article that mentions klemp
      > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Tuesday, November 13, 2012, 8:56 PM
      >
      >
      >
      >  
      >
      >
      >
      > I would have to say that the opposite of fear is a lack of concern or even courage, but not anger. But I would agree that fear is a device used by klemp just as it is used by all religions to keep people in line and from challenging the leader.
      >
      > Anger isn't a bad thing and I remember hearing from eckists, including klemp and a current family member who is still in the cult, that anger is a weakness. Of course it makes sense that they would say this because it is our innate feeling of anger that drives us to resist the bullshit of the cult and its illogical, improbable and absurd notions.
      >
      > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer <jepfeiffer@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Thanks for the article.  The truth is Klemp can't conceive that any eckist would feel anger or at least not toward him or eckankar because after all how could they, since eckankar and the mahanta is the answer for everything in their lives.  In eckankar anger is very wrong and is believed to show a lack of adjustment to the concepts of eckankar.  It means you are not properly brain washed.  While in, I think I felt more bewildered than angry.
      > >  
      > > Klemp doesn't care that all of us who woke up from our eckankar induced stupor are angry about the lies and deceit because we are now considered unworthy misfits anyway.  If I am remembering right, supposedly, according to eckankar, we are all damned for simply walking away and will have to re-ingratiate ourselves at some point with our present lem.  Perish the thought! 
      > >  
      > > Fear is what eckankar uses to keep people from guestioning the lem or the operation of the org.  Anger is the opposite of fear.  So therefore, angry eckist would only be those who are ready to get out of eckankar.   Of course that is undesirable in an eckist and  one of the main reasons you aren't allowed to ask questions about why Paul lied and why they continue to lie to get new people in.  I believe when you learn the truth about how eckankar was founded and how it operates, you come to a changing point.  You either become self delusional to stay in or the lies drive you away.
      > >  
      > > Instead of eckankar admitting that the lies are a problem, they label the ones who are offended by the lies as misfits.  The whole concept is insane in itself for an org that talks so much about spiritual truth.  How can you justify obviously lies and call it spiritual truth?  That is what they do and if you don't buy it, you are of no use to them.  You are not willing to deceive yourself for the sake of eckankar. 
      > >  
      > > My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so disturbing for you?  Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling?  Can you clarify for yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to you? 
      > >  
      > > The article speaks of how anger can be a good catalyst for needed change.  I think that is the key to handling it well.  Anger is something normal that we all feel.  To say different would be a lie.  I think when anger is acute, it shows a need to change whatever causes it whether it is a change in self or the external conditions that caused it.  I believe that is what prompted most of us to get out of insane eckankar. 
      > >  
      > > You are as normal as anyone else with your anger.  I hope you can clarify it and use it for your own good.  You obviously are most intelligent and capable of handling it.
      > >  
      > > With much high regards from another feeling eckist.  good luck and please be kind to yourself. 
      > >
      > > --- On Sat, 11/10/12, harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@> wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > From: harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@>
      > > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] An article that mentions klemp
      > > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      > > Date: Saturday, November 10, 2012, 7:26 PM
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >  
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Here's an article mentioning klemp and the anger nonsense he instills in people.
      > >
      > > http://moosebusiness.com/anger-doesnt-always-need-managing/
      > >
      >
    • Russ Rodnick
      our innate feeling of anger that drives us to resist the bullshit of the cult and its illogical, improbable and absurd notions   This may be your experience
      Message 2 of 11 , Nov 14, 2012
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        our innate feeling of anger that drives us to resist the bullshit of the cult and its illogical, improbable and absurd notions
         
        This may be your experience but it isn't mine. All this is is justification of anger as if anger is the best we have. It's about survival, when threatened we either succumb or fight back. It's instinct and necessary but to continue to be angry after the threat is gone is not in my opinion a healthy place. But it's a choice. Anger may have gotten you out of Eckankar but for me it was just that I couldn't justify the contradictions anymore and why should I?
         
        The reality of the higher planes is real; so thanks to Eckankar for the cosmology because it gave me a better picture of reality. (I know, they plaigarized the cosmology) but this is where I really go it. I parted ways with them over the whole "Mahanta, the LEM" thing.
         
        I still say, whatever gets you through the night. I found that I don't need to have my hand held, so to speak. But anger? Nah, I reject that, beyond the situation where I said shove it.
         
        It burns if you keep manifesting it and becomes your chronic state. At least this is MY experience.
         
        Russ

        From: harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...>
        To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 2:56 PM
        Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: An article that mentions klemp
         
        I would have to say that the opposite of fear is a lack of concern or even courage, but not anger. But I would agree that fear is a device used by klemp just as it is used by all religions to keep people in line and from challenging the leader.

        Anger isn't a bad thing and I remember hearing from eckists, including klemp and a current family member who is still in the cult, that anger is a weakness. Of course it makes sense that they would say this because it is our innate feeling of anger that drives us to resist the bullshit of the cult and its illogical, improbable and absurd notions.

        --- In mailto:EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous%40yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer <jepfeiffer@...> wrote:
        >
        > Thanks for the article.  The truth is Klemp can't conceive that any eckist would feel anger or at least not toward him or eckankar because after all how could they, since eckankar and the mahanta is the answer for everything in their lives.  In eckankar anger is very wrong and is believed to show a lack of adjustment to the concepts of eckankar.  It means you are not properly brain washed.  While in, I think I felt more bewildered than angry.
        >  
        > Klemp doesn't care that all of us who woke up from our eckankar induced stupor are angry about the lies and deceit because we are now considered unworthy misfits anyway.  If I am remembering right, supposedly, according to eckankar, we are all damned for simply walking away and will have to re-ingratiate ourselves at some point with our present lem.  Perish the thought! 
        >  
        > Fear is what eckankar uses to keep people from guestioning the lem or the operation of the org.  Anger is the opposite of fear.  So therefore, angry eckist would only be those who are ready to get out of eckankar.   Of course that is undesirable in an eckist and  one of the main reasons you aren't allowed to ask questions about why Paul lied and why they continue to lie to get new people in.  I believe when you learn the truth about how eckankar was founded and how it operates, you come to a changing point.  You either become self delusional to stay in or the lies drive you away.
        >  
        > Instead of eckankar admitting that the lies are a problem, they label the ones who are offended by the lies as misfits.  The whole concept is insane in itself for an org that talks so much about spiritual truth.  How can you justify obviously lies and call it spiritual truth?  That is what they do and if you don't buy it, you are of no use to them.  You are not willing to deceive yourself for the sake of eckankar. 
        >  
        > My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so disturbing for you?  Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling?  Can you clarify for yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to you? 
        >  
        > The article speaks of how anger can be a good catalyst for needed change.  I think that is the key to handling it well.  Anger is something normal that we all feel.  To say different would be a lie.  I think when anger is acute, it shows a need to change whatever causes it whether it is a change in self or the external conditions that caused it.  I believe that is what prompted most of us to get out of insane eckankar. 
        >  
        > You are as normal as anyone else with your anger.  I hope you can clarify it and use it for your own good.  You obviously are most intelligent and capable of handling it.
        >  
        > With much high regards from another feeling eckist.  good luck and please be kind to yourself. 
        >
        > --- On Sat, 11/10/12, harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > From: harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...>
        > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] An article that mentions klemp
        > To: mailto:EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous%40yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Saturday, November 10, 2012, 7:26 PM
        >
        >
        >
        >  
        >
        >
        >
        > Here's an article mentioning klemp and the anger nonsense he instills in people.
        >
        > http://moosebusiness.com/anger-doesnt-always-need-managing/
        >

      • harrisonferrel
        Your question: My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so disturbing for you? Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling? Can you
        Message 3 of 11 , Dec 10, 2012
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          Your question: "My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so disturbing for you? Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling? Can you clarify for yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to you? "


          ANSWER: Through Eckankar I've met a number of people who talked about anger being an evil of sorts. This is a common thread among cults — to call someone angry. The idea is basically to keep people from getting angry at the nonsense you're peddling. Klemp and Twitchell talked about the evils of anger. The problem of course is that anger is a tool that any normal mind has; it motivates people to stand up for themselves and to oppose groups like eckankar that are trying to get away with injuring people.



          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "harrisonferrel" <harrisonferrel@...> wrote:
          >
          > I would have to say that the opposite of fear is a lack of concern or even courage, but not anger. But I would agree that fear is a device used by klemp just as it is used by all religions to keep people in line and from challenging the leader.
          >
          > Anger isn't a bad thing and I remember hearing from eckists, including klemp and a current family member who is still in the cult, that anger is a weakness. Of course it makes sense that they would say this because it is our innate feeling of anger that drives us to resist the bullshit of the cult and its illogical, improbable and absurd notions.
          >
          > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer <jepfeiffer@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Thanks for the article.  The truth is Klemp can't conceive that any eckist would feel anger or at least not toward him or eckankar because after all how could they, since eckankar and the mahanta is the answer for everything in their lives.  In eckankar anger is very wrong and is believed to show a lack of adjustment to the concepts of eckankar.  It means you are not properly brain washed.  While in, I think I felt more bewildered than angry.
          > >  
          > > Klemp doesn't care that all of us who woke up from our eckankar induced stupor are angry about the lies and deceit because we are now considered unworthy misfits anyway.  If I am remembering right, supposedly, according to eckankar, we are all damned for simply walking away and will have to re-ingratiate ourselves at some point with our present lem.  Perish the thought! 
          > >  
          > > Fear is what eckankar uses to keep people from guestioning the lem or the operation of the org.  Anger is the opposite of fear.  So therefore, angry eckist would only be those who are ready to get out of eckankar.   Of course that is undesirable in an eckist and  one of the main reasons you aren't allowed to ask questions about why Paul lied and why they continue to lie to get new people in.  I believe when you learn the truth about how eckankar was founded and how it operates, you come to a changing point.  You either become self delusional to stay in or the lies drive you away.
          > >  
          > > Instead of eckankar admitting that the lies are a problem, they label the ones who are offended by the lies as misfits.  The whole concept is insane in itself for an org that talks so much about spiritual truth.  How can you justify obviously lies and call it spiritual truth?  That is what they do and if you don't buy it, you are of no use to them.  You are not willing to deceive yourself for the sake of eckankar. 
          > >  
          > > My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so disturbing for you?  Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling?  Can you clarify for yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to you? 
          > >  
          > > The article speaks of how anger can be a good catalyst for needed change.  I think that is the key to handling it well.  Anger is something normal that we all feel.  To say different would be a lie.  I think when anger is acute, it shows a need to change whatever causes it whether it is a change in self or the external conditions that caused it.  I believe that is what prompted most of us to get out of insane eckankar. 
          > >  
          > > You are as normal as anyone else with your anger.  I hope you can clarify it and use it for your own good.  You obviously are most intelligent and capable of handling it.
          > >  
          > > With much high regards from another feeling eckist.  good luck and please be kind to yourself. 
          > >
          > > --- On Sat, 11/10/12, harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@> wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > From: harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@>
          > > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] An article that mentions klemp
          > > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
          > > Date: Saturday, November 10, 2012, 7:26 PM
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >  
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Here's an article mentioning klemp and the anger nonsense he instills in people.
          > >
          > > http://moosebusiness.com/anger-doesnt-always-need-managing/
          > >
          >
        • prometheus_973
          Hello Harrison and All, Most Eck H.I.s are as two-faced as Klemp. One face is shown when in public and the other face is shown when doing EK business. I ve
          Message 4 of 11 , Dec 10, 2012
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            Hello Harrison and All,
            Most Eck H.I.s are as
            two-faced as Klemp.
            One face is shown when
            in public and the other
            face is shown when
            doing EK business.

            I've angered other
            H.I.s so much (regarding
            EK business) that
            they've hung up on
            me! One was a RESA!
            I was the one frustrated
            with getting people
            (H.I.s) attuned to the
            programs or positions
            they had signed up
            for. The business side
            of Eckankar was very
            stressful, not fun, and
            was very unrewarding.

            So, being nice, for
            many H.I.s, is all an
            act. And most times
            the business side of
            Eckankar brings it out.
            Their angry and negative
            tendencies are merely
            denied, hidden, and
            swept under the rug
            "as if" it doesn't exist.
            Just put on a happy face!

            However, the biggest
            EK excuse is that the
            anger was "mocked up"
            in order to express
            a point or to better
            communicate with
            someone on a lower
            level of consciousness.
            I'm sure you wouldn't
            be surprised to know
            how often this excuse
            is used.

            Twitchell was good
            at making up excuses
            when questioned about
            contradictions of non-
            spiritual behaviour of
            his H.I.s such as anger.
            But, Twitchell was an
            expert liar, manipulator,
            and conman. He had
            to cover-up his own
            hypocrisy (as does Klemp)
            and that of his long-time
            followers with convincing
            rationalizations. EKists
            merely pretend, dream,
            deny the truth, and play
            the game of follow-the-
            leader.

            Prometheus

            harrisonferrel wrote:
            Your question: "My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so
            disturbing for you? Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling? Can you
            clarify for yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to
            you? "


            ANSWER: Through Eckankar I've met a number of people who talked about anger
            being an evil of sorts. This is a common thread among cults — to call someone
            angry. The idea is basically to keep people from getting angry at the nonsense
            you're peddling. Klemp and Twitchell talked about the evils of anger. The
            problem of course is that anger is a tool that any normal mind has; it motivates
            people to stand up for themselves and to oppose groups like eckankar that are
            trying to get away with injuring people.




            <harrisonferrel wrote:
            >
            > I would have to say that the opposite of fear is a lack of concern or even
            courage, but not anger. But I would agree that fear is a device used by klemp
            just as it is used by all religions to keep people in line and from challenging
            the leader.
            >
            > Anger isn't a bad thing and I remember hearing from eckists, including klemp
            and a current family member who is still in the cult, that anger is a weakness.
            Of course it makes sense that they would say this because it is our innate
            feeling of anger that drives us to resist the bullshit of the cult and its
            illogical, improbable and absurd notions.
            >
            Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
            > >
            > > Thanks for the article. The truth is Klemp can't conceive that any eckist
            would feel anger or at least not toward him or eckankar because after all how
            could they, since eckankar and the mahanta is the answer for everything in their
            lives. In eckankar anger is very wrong and is believed to show a lack of
            adjustment to the concepts of eckankar. It means you are not properly brain
            washed. While in, I think I felt more bewildered than angry.
            > >
            > > Klemp doesn't care that all of us who woke up from our eckankar induced
            stupor are angry about the lies and deceit because we are now considered
            unworthy misfits anyway. If I am remembering right, supposedly, according to
            eckankar, we are all damned for simply walking away and will have to
            re-ingratiate ourselves at some point with our present lem. Perish the
            thought!
            > >
            > > Fear is what eckankar uses to keep people from guestioning the lem or the
            operation of the org. Anger is the opposite of fear. So therefore, angry
            eckist would only be those who are ready to get out of eckankar. Of course
            that is undesirable in an eckist and one of the main reasons you aren't
            allowed to ask questions about why Paul lied and why they continue to lie to get
            new people in. I believe when you learn the truth about how eckankar was
            founded and how it operates, you come to a changing point. You either become
            self delusional to stay in or the lies drive you away.
            > >
            > > Instead of eckankar admitting that the lies are a problem, they label the
            ones who are offended by the lies as misfits. The whole concept is insane in
            itself for an org that talks so much about spiritual truth. How can you
            justify obviously lies and call it spiritual truth? That is what they do and
            if you don't buy it, you are of no use to them. You are not willing to deceive
            yourself for the sake of eckankar.
            > >
            > > My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so disturbing for
            you? Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling? Can you clarify for
            yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to you?
            > >
            > > The article speaks of how anger can be a good catalyst for needed change.
            I think that is the key to handling it well. Anger is something normal that we
            all feel. To say different would be a lie. I think when anger is acute, it
            shows a need to change whatever causes it whether it is a change in self or the
            external conditions that caused it. I believe that is what prompted most of us
            to get out of insane eckankar.
            > >
            > > You are as normal as anyone else with your anger. I hope you can clarify
            it and use it for your own good. You obviously are most intelligent and
            capable of handling it.
            > >
            > > With much high regards from another feeling eckist. good luck and please
            be kind to yourself.
            > >
            harrisonferrel wrote:
            > >

            > >
            > > Here's an article mentioning klemp and the anger nonsense he instills in
            people.
            > >
            http://moosebusiness.com/anger-doesnt-always-need-managing/
          • postekcon
            I consider anger to be one of the most important human traits, and one which separates us from the animal kingdom. Most folks are afraid of anger. They think
            Message 5 of 11 , Dec 10, 2012
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              I consider 'anger' to be one of the most important human traits, and one which separates us from the animal kingdom. Most folks are afraid of anger. They think it just means hollering at your neighbor or life etc. But on a scale of one to ten, that's at the high end.

              Without anger, the human race would behave in zombie fashion, there would be no enterprise, no advancement, no athletes etc., no betterment in anything at all. I am not a medical person, but I know there there is a link between adrenaline and anger. The rising of adrenaline is linked to survival and 'get-up-and-go'. In humans anger is a natural emotional response which directly triggers adrenaline. I believe that without adrenaline there would be no human action for change or betterment etc.

              This is why in ekult 'anger' is incorrectly portrayed as an evil passion of the mind, and so much attention is put upon its natural suppression. Ekult's objective is to have passive zombie followers - and it works!
              -Postekcon


              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hello Harrison and All,
              > Most Eck H.I.s are as
              > two-faced as Klemp.
              > One face is shown when
              > in public and the other
              > face is shown when
              > doing EK business.
              >
              > I've angered other
              > H.I.s so much (regarding
              > EK business) that
              > they've hung up on
              > me! One was a RESA!
              > I was the one frustrated
              > with getting people
              > (H.I.s) attuned to the
              > programs or positions
              > they had signed up
              > for. The business side
              > of Eckankar was very
              > stressful, not fun, and
              > was very unrewarding.
              >
              > So, being nice, for
              > many H.I.s, is all an
              > act. And most times
              > the business side of
              > Eckankar brings it out.
              > Their angry and negative
              > tendencies are merely
              > denied, hidden, and
              > swept under the rug
              > "as if" it doesn't exist.
              > Just put on a happy face!
              >
              > However, the biggest
              > EK excuse is that the
              > anger was "mocked up"
              > in order to express
              > a point or to better
              > communicate with
              > someone on a lower
              > level of consciousness.
              > I'm sure you wouldn't
              > be surprised to know
              > how often this excuse
              > is used.
              >
              > Twitchell was good
              > at making up excuses
              > when questioned about
              > contradictions of non-
              > spiritual behaviour of
              > his H.I.s such as anger.
              > But, Twitchell was an
              > expert liar, manipulator,
              > and conman. He had
              > to cover-up his own
              > hypocrisy (as does Klemp)
              > and that of his long-time
              > followers with convincing
              > rationalizations. EKists
              > merely pretend, dream,
              > deny the truth, and play
              > the game of follow-the-
              > leader.
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              > harrisonferrel wrote:
              > Your question: "My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so
              > disturbing for you? Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling? Can you
              > clarify for yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to
              > you? "
              >
              >
              > ANSWER: Through Eckankar I've met a number of people who talked about anger
              > being an evil of sorts. This is a common thread among cults — to call someone
              > angry. The idea is basically to keep people from getting angry at the nonsense
              > you're peddling. Klemp and Twitchell talked about the evils of anger. The
              > problem of course is that anger is a tool that any normal mind has; it motivates
              > people to stand up for themselves and to oppose groups like eckankar that are
              > trying to get away with injuring people.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > <harrisonferrel wrote:
              > >
              > > I would have to say that the opposite of fear is a lack of concern or even
              > courage, but not anger. But I would agree that fear is a device used by klemp
              > just as it is used by all religions to keep people in line and from challenging
              > the leader.
              > >
              > > Anger isn't a bad thing and I remember hearing from eckists, including klemp
              > and a current family member who is still in the cult, that anger is a weakness.
              > Of course it makes sense that they would say this because it is our innate
              > feeling of anger that drives us to resist the bullshit of the cult and its
              > illogical, improbable and absurd notions.
              > >
              > Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Thanks for the article. The truth is Klemp can't conceive that any eckist
              > would feel anger or at least not toward him or eckankar because after all how
              > could they, since eckankar and the mahanta is the answer for everything in their
              > lives. In eckankar anger is very wrong and is believed to show a lack of
              > adjustment to the concepts of eckankar. It means you are not properly brain
              > washed. While in, I think I felt more bewildered than angry.
              > > >
              > > > Klemp doesn't care that all of us who woke up from our eckankar induced
              > stupor are angry about the lies and deceit because we are now considered
              > unworthy misfits anyway. If I am remembering right, supposedly, according to
              > eckankar, we are all damned for simply walking away and will have to
              > re-ingratiate ourselves at some point with our present lem. Perish the
              > thought!
              > > >
              > > > Fear is what eckankar uses to keep people from guestioning the lem or the
              > operation of the org. Anger is the opposite of fear. So therefore, angry
              > eckist would only be those who are ready to get out of eckankar. Of course
              > that is undesirable in an eckist and one of the main reasons you aren't
              > allowed to ask questions about why Paul lied and why they continue to lie to get
              > new people in. I believe when you learn the truth about how eckankar was
              > founded and how it operates, you come to a changing point. You either become
              > self delusional to stay in or the lies drive you away.
              > > >
              > > > Instead of eckankar admitting that the lies are a problem, they label the
              > ones who are offended by the lies as misfits. The whole concept is insane in
              > itself for an org that talks so much about spiritual truth. How can you
              > justify obviously lies and call it spiritual truth? That is what they do and
              > if you don't buy it, you are of no use to them. You are not willing to deceive
              > yourself for the sake of eckankar.
              > > >
              > > > My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so disturbing for
              > you? Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling? Can you clarify for
              > yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to you?
              > > >
              > > > The article speaks of how anger can be a good catalyst for needed change.
              > I think that is the key to handling it well. Anger is something normal that we
              > all feel. To say different would be a lie. I think when anger is acute, it
              > shows a need to change whatever causes it whether it is a change in self or the
              > external conditions that caused it. I believe that is what prompted most of us
              > to get out of insane eckankar.
              > > >
              > > > You are as normal as anyone else with your anger. I hope you can clarify
              > it and use it for your own good. You obviously are most intelligent and
              > capable of handling it.
              > > >
              > > > With much high regards from another feeling eckist. good luck and please
              > be kind to yourself.
              > > >
              > harrisonferrel wrote:
              > > >
              >
              > > >
              > > > Here's an article mentioning klemp and the anger nonsense he instills in
              > people.
              > > >
              > http://moosebusiness.com/anger-doesnt-always-need-managing/
              >
            • prometheus_973
              Hello Postekcon and All, I agree that anger is natural, and normal for humans to express and to feel. Controlling it is important, however, Eckankar is all
              Message 6 of 11 , Dec 10, 2012
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                Hello Postekcon and All,
                I agree that anger is natural,
                and normal for humans
                to express and to feel.
                Controlling it is important,
                however, Eckankar is all
                about over control while
                denying feelings (emotions)
                and expressing them because
                these are of the Astral (2nd)
                Plane and that's bad. ECKists
                pretend they're not of
                the earth (physical) Plane.

                [How does that work with
                DNA and ancestry? Just
                ignore it right! I'll bet the
                EKists that get caught up
                with the ancestry thing
                don't get promoted if the
                RESA's spys hear about it
                and squeal on them. Soul
                has no DNA or ancestry
                that can be traced but
                through dreams, correct?
                And, Soul is neither male
                or female too, right?]

                Eckists need to believe
                that they're higher and
                more spiritually advanced
                than all others, but fail
                to realize that this is the
                same lie that all other
                religions tell their members.
                It's a trap for the ego.
                ECKists even have a scale
                with their so-called 'level"
                number printed upon
                a membership card that
                they paid for. That means
                it's all real and these guys
                are truly spiritual giants
                and highly evolved Souls.
                It's in print for God's sake!

                Honestly, would these
                nice and friendly EK people
                lie about all of this stuff?
                Klemp does that's for sure!
                Or, are these EKists as
                deluded as many Christians
                are and actually believe
                this crap? YES! ECKists are
                just as gullible and deluded
                with faith and belief as
                are Christians, Jews, Muslims,
                Mormons, Scientologists,
                etc.

                Prometheus


                postekcon wrote:
                I consider 'anger' to be one of the most important human traits, and one which
                separates us from the animal kingdom. Most folks are afraid of anger. They think
                it just means hollering at your neighbor or life etc. But on a scale of one to
                ten, that's at the high end.

                Without anger, the human race would behave in zombie fashion, there would be no
                enterprise, no advancement, no athletes etc., no betterment in anything at all.
                I am not a medical person, but I know there there is a link between adrenaline
                and anger. The rising of adrenaline is linked to survival and 'get-up-and-go'.
                In humans anger is a natural emotional response which directly triggers
                adrenaline. I believe that without adrenaline there would be no human action for
                change or betterment etc.

                This is why in ekult 'anger' is incorrectly portrayed as an evil passion of the
                mind, and so much attention is put upon its natural suppression. Ekult's
                objective is to have passive zombie followers - and it works!
                -Postekcon


                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hello Harrison and All,
                > Most Eck H.I.s are as
                > two-faced as Klemp.
                > One face is shown when
                > in public and the other
                > face is shown when
                > doing EK business.
                >
                > I've angered other
                > H.I.s so much (regarding
                > EK business) that
                > they've hung up on
                > me! One was a RESA!
                > I was the one frustrated
                > with getting people
                > (H.I.s) attuned to the
                > programs or positions
                > they had signed up
                > for. The business side
                > of Eckankar was very
                > stressful, not fun, and
                > was very unrewarding.
                >
                > So, being nice, for
                > many H.I.s, is all an
                > act. And most times
                > the business side of
                > Eckankar brings it out.
                > Their angry and negative
                > tendencies are merely
                > denied, hidden, and
                > swept under the rug
                > "as if" it doesn't exist.
                > Just put on a happy face!
                >
                > However, the biggest
                > EK excuse is that the
                > anger was "mocked up"
                > in order to express
                > a point or to better
                > communicate with
                > someone on a lower
                > level of consciousness.
                > I'm sure you wouldn't
                > be surprised to know
                > how often this excuse
                > is used.
                >
                > Twitchell was good
                > at making up excuses
                > when questioned about
                > contradictions of non-
                > spiritual behaviour of
                > his H.I.s such as anger.
                > But, Twitchell was an
                > expert liar, manipulator,
                > and conman. He had
                > to cover-up his own
                > hypocrisy (as does Klemp)
                > and that of his long-time
                > followers with convincing
                > rationalizations. EKists
                > merely pretend, dream,
                > deny the truth, and play
                > the game of follow-the-
                > leader.
                >
                > Prometheus
                >
                > harrisonferrel wrote:
                > Your question: "My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so
                > disturbing for you? Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling? Can you
                > clarify for yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to
                > you? "
                >
                >
                > ANSWER: Through Eckankar I've met a number of people who talked about anger
                > being an evil of sorts. This is a common thread among cults — to call someone
                > angry. The idea is basically to keep people from getting angry at the nonsense
                > you're peddling. Klemp and Twitchell talked about the evils of anger. The
                > problem of course is that anger is a tool that any normal mind has; it
                motivates
                > people to stand up for themselves and to oppose groups like eckankar that are
                > trying to get away with injuring people.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > <harrisonferrel wrote:
                > >
                > > I would have to say that the opposite of fear is a lack of concern or even
                > courage, but not anger. But I would agree that fear is a device used by klemp
                > just as it is used by all religions to keep people in line and from
                challenging
                > the leader.
                > >
                > > Anger isn't a bad thing and I remember hearing from eckists, including klemp
                > and a current family member who is still in the cult, that anger is a
                weakness.
                > Of course it makes sense that they would say this because it is our innate
                > feeling of anger that drives us to resist the bullshit of the cult and its
                > illogical, improbable and absurd notions.
                > >
                > Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Thanks for the article. The truth is Klemp can't conceive that any eckist
                > would feel anger or at least not toward him or eckankar because after all how
                > could they, since eckankar and the mahanta is the answer for everything in
                their
                > lives. In eckankar anger is very wrong and is believed to show a lack of
                > adjustment to the concepts of eckankar. It means you are not properly brain
                > washed. While in, I think I felt more bewildered than angry.
                > > >
                > > > Klemp doesn't care that all of us who woke up from our eckankar induced
                > stupor are angry about the lies and deceit because we are now considered
                > unworthy misfits anyway. If I am remembering right, supposedly, according to
                > eckankar, we are all damned for simply walking away and will have to
                > re-ingratiate ourselves at some point with our present lem. Perish the
                > thought!
                > > >
                > > > Fear is what eckankar uses to keep people from guestioning the lem or the
                > operation of the org. Anger is the opposite of fear. So therefore, angry
                > eckist would only be those who are ready to get out of eckankar. Of course
                > that is undesirable in an eckist and one of the main reasons you aren't
                > allowed to ask questions about why Paul lied and why they continue to lie to
                get
                > new people in. I believe when you learn the truth about how eckankar was
                > founded and how it operates, you come to a changing point. You either become
                > self delusional to stay in or the lies drive you away.
                > > >
                > > > Instead of eckankar admitting that the lies are a problem, they label the
                > ones who are offended by the lies as misfits. The whole concept is insane in
                > itself for an org that talks so much about spiritual truth. How can you
                > justify obviously lies and call it spiritual truth? That is what they do and
                > if you don't buy it, you are of no use to them. You are not willing to
                deceive
                > yourself for the sake of eckankar.
                > > >
                > > > My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so disturbing for
                > you? Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling? Can you clarify for
                > yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to you?
                > > >
                > > > The article speaks of how anger can be a good catalyst for needed change.
                > I think that is the key to handling it well. Anger is something normal that
                we
                > all feel. To say different would be a lie. I think when anger is acute, it
                > shows a need to change whatever causes it whether it is a change in self or
                the
                > external conditions that caused it. I believe that is what prompted most of
                us
                > to get out of insane eckankar.
                > > >
                > > > You are as normal as anyone else with your anger. I hope you can clarify
                > it and use it for your own good. You obviously are most intelligent and
                > capable of handling it.
                > > >
                > > > With much high regards from another feeling eckist. good luck and please
                > be kind to yourself.
                > > >
                > harrisonferrel wrote:
                > > >
                >
                > > >
                > > > Here's an article mentioning klemp and the anger nonsense he instills in
                > people.
                > > >
                > http://moosebusiness.com/anger-doesnt-always-need-managing/
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