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Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Statistics question

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  • Janice Pfeiffer
    I think you have asked some interesting questions.  I don t read about eckankar these days so I do hope that more knowledgeable people can provide answers. 
    Message 1 of 9 , Nov 13, 2012
      I think you have asked some interesting questions.  I don't read about eckankar these days so I do hope that more knowledgeable people can provide answers.  I do believe that people have become more wary of religious or spiritual orgs that make claims such as a living eck master however.  Good luck with it. 
      --- On Tue, 11/13/12, Avonblue <gowiththeflow1212@...> wrote:

      From: Avonblue <gowiththeflow1212@...>
      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Statistics question
      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Tuesday, November 13, 2012, 11:02 PM

       
      Does anyone have facts on the number of members eckankar has had since its conception in the 60's; how many members have actually left over the years and how many members there are now?
      It's hard for me to imagine that many people are being sucked into this organization anymore.

      Also, has there been any precedent for anyone going after eckankar for membership (dollars) return based on fraudulent representation or does the fact that they call it a membership "donation" preclude that as legal possibility?

    • Diana Stanley
      I left Eck around 25 years ago after being in the middle of the bulls++it between darwin and harold. They were both contacting me trying to convince me they
      Message 2 of 9 , Nov 19, 2012
        I left Eck around 25 years ago after being in the middle of the bulls++it between darwin and harold. They were both contacting me trying to convince me they were the real Mahanta.Darwin even called me one night drunk and crying saying he was the real master. I told him to go to bed.
        I saw some of the worst of activities. It was still hard to pull the
        plug on Eck as I had a close nit family of friends. Some like me pulled
        out and others stayed in. Some of them left later. I doubt there are any statistics about how many. They lied so much about so many things
        One thing has always bothered me. I did a painting of the passing of the
        "Rod of Power" they made a print of it,this was after Paul died.
        When Harod took over I was told he and a few others took the painting to the desert did a cerimony Burned the painting and buried it,
        if harold did'nt believe Darwin was the Mahanta but a con man Why did he go to the trouble of burning his painting? There are a lot of ways to destroy a painting.
        I am rambling.
        Diana Stanley

























        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Avonblue" <gowiththeflow1212@...> wrote:
        >
        > Does anyone have facts on the number of members eckankar has had since its conception in the 60's; how many members have actually left over the years and how many members there are now?
        > It's hard for me to imagine that many people are being sucked into this organization anymore.
        >
        > Also, has there been any precedent for anyone going after eckankar for membership (dollars) return based on fraudulent representation or does the fact that they call it a membership "donation" preclude that as legal possibility?
        >
      • etznab@aol.com
        They lied so much about so many things. Search the following documents for the words: the connection. Example: Wasn t it he who wrote `Lead, Kindly Light ?
        Message 3 of 9 , Nov 19, 2012
          They lied so much about so many things.

          Search the following documents for the words: the connection. Example:

          "Wasn't it he who wrote `Lead, Kindly Light'?"

          "Yes. He also wrote: `Knowledge is one thing, virtue is another ...
          Philosophy, however enlightened, however profound, gives no command
          over the passions, no influential motives, no vivifying principles.'
          Memorize that, and have nothing to do with philosophy, it's no good."

          "But how does that fit the influenza epidemic? I don't see the
          connection."

          "I knew, what every genuine thinker has known since the dawn of
          history, that epidemics -- and endemics, too, are a product of the
          subconscious mind of humanity. The only actual substance of that stuff
          is the fear that builds up the illusion and all its consequences. That
          is why Jesus called it `a liar, and the father of it.' The mass mind
          fears and consequently creates vengeance upon its own secret
          swinishness. [... .]

          http://arthursclassicnovels.com/mundy/ugfa10.html

          Compare with:

          "Now remember this. As the great spiritual guru Yaubl Sacabi once
          said, 'Knowledge is one thing, virtue is another.' No matter how
          enlightening it may be, philosophy gives no command over the passions,
          no influential motives, no inescapable principles. It is not worth much
          in the crises of mankind. How can it help in time of epidemics?"
             
          I said, "I don't get the connection."

          "All right, you know what every genuine thinker has known since the
          dawn of time: that epidemics (and endemics, too) are a product of the
          submind of humanity. The only actual substance is the fear that builds
          up the illusion and all its consequences. This is why Jesus spoke of
          the devil, the submind, as a liar and the father of it. The mass mind
          fears and consequently creates vengeance upon itself. It is the father
          of spiritual arrogance. [... .]"

          https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0KObtCQpPKbZDhiNjhkZmQtNjI5Yy00ZTZlLWJjZDYtYjY3Yzg1Y2I4Mzhj/edit?pli=1

          ***

          Apparently, Paul Twitchell appropriated a dialogue from Talbot Mundy's
          1940 book and changed the names.

          That was just a small example.

          I would tend to agree that "they" (somebody) lied.

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Diana Stanley <dianastanley43@...>
          To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
          <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:00 pm
          Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Statistics question

           
          I left Eck around 25 years ago after being in the middle of the
          bulls++it between darwin and harold. They were both contacting me
          trying to convince me they were the real Mahanta.Darwin even called me
          one night drunk and crying saying he was the real master. I told him to
          go to bed.
          I saw some of the worst of activities. It was still hard to pull the
          plug on Eck as I had a close nit family of friends. Some like me pulled
          out and others stayed in. Some of them left later. I doubt there are
          any statistics about how many. They lied so much about so many things
          One thing has always bothered me. I did a painting of the passing of the
          "Rod of Power" they made a print of it,this was after Paul died.
          When Harod took over I was told he and a few others took the painting
          to the desert did a cerimony Burned the painting and buried it,
          if harold did'nt believe Darwin was the Mahanta but a con man Why did
          he go to the trouble of burning his painting? There are a lot of ways
          to destroy a painting.
          I am rambling.
          Diana Stanley

          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Avonblue"
          <gowiththeflow1212@...> wrote:
          >
          > Does anyone have facts on the number of members eckankar has had
          since its conception in the 60's; how many members have actually left
          over the years and how many members there are now?
          > It's hard for me to imagine that many people are being sucked into
          this organization anymore.
          >
          > Also, has there been any precedent for anyone going after eckankar
          for membership (dollars) return based on fraudulent representation or
          does the fact that they call it a membership "donation" preclude that
          as legal possibility?
          >
        • Non
          And yet there are still those who surround themselves with photos of klemp, in wallets, on dash boards, luggage tags etc.sold by eckankar inc. It is so
          Message 4 of 9 , Nov 19, 2012
            And yet there are still those who surround themselves with photos of klemp, in wallets, on dash boards, luggage tags etc.sold by eckankar inc. It is so strange, yet I guess it is just another example of how dangerous the Herd mentality is in us humans. What you describe sounds very much like any ritual done by a Nazi or the KKK, etc. and other Cults and Religions, claiming to have ultimate dogmatic truth, that is only a lot of sticky ugly lies.

            Fortunately, I think the younger generation sees through a lot of bull shit that we were drawn into because we thought that truth and authority and exotic philosophies didn't have to be questioned much. We were more easily fooled than today. It is interesting that the percentage of those unaffiliated with any Religion or Spirituality is increasing, and I hope this trend continues.

            Non ; )

            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Stanley" <dianastanley43@...> wrote:
            >
            > I left Eck around 25 years ago after being in the middle of the bulls++it between darwin and harold. They were both contacting me trying to convince me they were the real Mahanta.Darwin even called me one night drunk and crying saying he was the real master. I told him to go to bed.
            > I saw some of the worst of activities. It was still hard to pull the
            > plug on Eck as I had a close nit family of friends. Some like me pulled
            > out and others stayed in. Some of them left later. I doubt there are any statistics about how many. They lied so much about so many things
            > One thing has always bothered me. I did a painting of the passing of the
            > "Rod of Power" they made a print of it,this was after Paul died.
            > When Harod took over I was told he and a few others took the painting to the desert did a cerimony Burned the painting and buried it,
            > if harold did'nt believe Darwin was the Mahanta but a con man Why did he go to the trouble of burning his painting? There are a lot of ways to destroy a painting.
            > I am rambling.
            > Diana Stanley
            >
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            > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Avonblue" <gowiththeflow1212@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Does anyone have facts on the number of members eckankar has had since its conception in the 60's; how many members have actually left over the years and how many members there are now?
            > > It's hard for me to imagine that many people are being sucked into this organization anymore.
            > >
            > > Also, has there been any precedent for anyone going after eckankar for membership (dollars) return based on fraudulent representation or does the fact that they call it a membership "donation" preclude that as legal possibility?
            > >
            >
          • Sharon
            Not only did I keep a photo of Klemp on the TV, I gave one to my son for his wallet & told him Harold would always protect him, and he should talk to
            Message 5 of 9 , Nov 20, 2012
              <giggle> Not only did I keep a photo of Klemp on the TV, I gave one to my son for his wallet & told him Harold would always protect him, and he should talk to him, etc. Years later he told me he thought I was nuts. He said he felt like there was "someone or something" always with him, but it sure as heck wasn't Klemp, and it had nothing to do with ekult.

              Anyway, when I got on the internet the first place I landed was alt.religion.eckankar, which was quite something back then! An HI told me there were evil entities on the internet and some eckists had actually experienced them coming out of the monitor. So, I put a photo of Klemp right on the wall over the monitor.

              Gotta laugh, you know? Reminds me of a silly eckstory, an eckist was riding on an airplane and "knew" it was going to crash, so she conjured up little eckanmechanics in her head to tighten all the nuts & bolts. When she debarked, she noticed the pilot and thought wow, he had *no* idea that the plane was going to crash but "the eck" saved him!

              Oh - while I think of it, Diana - did you ever think about writing a book? It would be fascinating - and I might even buy one new & full price!!

              Hugs,

              Sharon

              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Non" <eckchains@...> wrote:
              >
              > And yet there are still those who surround themselves with photos of klemp, in wallets, on dash boards, luggage tags etc.sold by eckankar inc. It is so strange, yet I guess it is just another example of how dangerous the Herd mentality is in us humans. What you describe sounds very much like any ritual done by a Nazi or the KKK, etc. and other Cults and Religions, claiming to have ultimate dogmatic truth, that is only a lot of sticky ugly lies.
              >
              > Fortunately, I think the younger generation sees through a lot of bull shit that we were drawn into because we thought that truth and authority and exotic philosophies didn't have to be questioned much. We were more easily fooled than today. It is interesting that the percentage of those unaffiliated with any Religion or Spirituality is increasing, and I hope this trend continues.
              >
              > Non ; )
              >
              > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Stanley" <dianastanley43@> wrote:
              > >
              > > I left Eck around 25 years ago after being in the middle of the bulls++it between darwin and harold. They were both contacting me trying to convince me they were the real Mahanta.Darwin even called me one night drunk and crying saying he was the real master. I told him to go to bed.
              > > I saw some of the worst of activities. It was still hard to pull the
              > > plug on Eck as I had a close nit family of friends. Some like me pulled
              > > out and others stayed in. Some of them left later. I doubt there are any statistics about how many. They lied so much about so many things
              > > One thing has always bothered me. I did a painting of the passing of the
              > > "Rod of Power" they made a print of it,this was after Paul died.
              > > When Harod took over I was told he and a few others took the painting to the desert did a cerimony Burned the painting and buried it,
              > > if harold did'nt believe Darwin was the Mahanta but a con man Why did he go to the trouble of burning his painting? There are a lot of ways to destroy a painting.
              > > I am rambling.
              > > Diana Stanley
              > >
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              > >
              > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Avonblue" <gowiththeflow1212@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Does anyone have facts on the number of members eckankar has had since its conception in the 60's; how many members have actually left over the years and how many members there are now?
              > > > It's hard for me to imagine that many people are being sucked into this organization anymore.
              > > >
              > > > Also, has there been any precedent for anyone going after eckankar for membership (dollars) return based on fraudulent representation or does the fact that they call it a membership "donation" preclude that as legal possibility?
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • Diana Stanley
              Sharon I think Steven King would be a better author for a book about the comings and goings about Eck Masters.
              Message 6 of 9 , Nov 20, 2012
                Sharon I think Steven King would be a better author for a book about the comings and goings about Eck Masters.


                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Sharon" <brighttigress@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > <giggle> Not only did I keep a photo of Klemp on the TV, I gave one to my son for his wallet & told him Harold would always protect him, and he should talk to him, etc. Years later he told me he thought I was nuts. He said he felt like there was "someone or something" always with him, but it sure as heck wasn't Klemp, and it had nothing to do with ekult.
                >
                > Anyway, when I got on the internet the first place I landed was alt.religion.eckankar, which was quite something back then! An HI told me there were evil entities on the internet and some eckists had actually experienced them coming out of the monitor. So, I put a photo of Klemp right on the wall over the monitor.
                >
                > Gotta laugh, you know? Reminds me of a silly eckstory, an eckist was riding on an airplane and "knew" it was going to crash, so she conjured up little eckanmechanics in her head to tighten all the nuts & bolts. When she debarked, she noticed the pilot and thought wow, he had *no* idea that the plane was going to crash but "the eck" saved him!
                >
                > Oh - while I think of it, Diana - did you ever think about writing a book? It would be fascinating - and I might even buy one new & full price!!
                >
                > Hugs,
                >
                > Sharon
                >
                > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Non" <eckchains@> wrote:
                > >
                > > And yet there are still those who surround themselves with photos of klemp, in wallets, on dash boards, luggage tags etc.sold by eckankar inc. It is so strange, yet I guess it is just another example of how dangerous the Herd mentality is in us humans. What you describe sounds very much like any ritual done by a Nazi or the KKK, etc. and other Cults and Religions, claiming to have ultimate dogmatic truth, that is only a lot of sticky ugly lies.
                > >
                > > Fortunately, I think the younger generation sees through a lot of bull shit that we were drawn into because we thought that truth and authority and exotic philosophies didn't have to be questioned much. We were more easily fooled than today. It is interesting that the percentage of those unaffiliated with any Religion or Spirituality is increasing, and I hope this trend continues.
                > >
                > > Non ; )
                > >
                > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Diana Stanley" <dianastanley43@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > I left Eck around 25 years ago after being in the middle of the bulls++it between darwin and harold. They were both contacting me trying to convince me they were the real Mahanta.Darwin even called me one night drunk and crying saying he was the real master. I told him to go to bed.
                > > > I saw some of the worst of activities. It was still hard to pull the
                > > > plug on Eck as I had a close nit family of friends. Some like me pulled
                > > > out and others stayed in. Some of them left later. I doubt there are any statistics about how many. They lied so much about so many things
                > > > One thing has always bothered me. I did a painting of the passing of the
                > > > "Rod of Power" they made a print of it,this was after Paul died.
                > > > When Harod took over I was told he and a few others took the painting to the desert did a cerimony Burned the painting and buried it,
                > > > if harold did'nt believe Darwin was the Mahanta but a con man Why did he go to the trouble of burning his painting? There are a lot of ways to destroy a painting.
                > > > I am rambling.
                > > > Diana Stanley
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
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                > > >
                > > >
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                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Avonblue" <gowiththeflow1212@> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > Does anyone have facts on the number of members eckankar has had since its conception in the 60's; how many members have actually left over the years and how many members there are now?
                > > > > It's hard for me to imagine that many people are being sucked into this organization anymore.
                > > > >
                > > > > Also, has there been any precedent for anyone going after eckankar for membership (dollars) return based on fraudulent representation or does the fact that they call it a membership "donation" preclude that as legal possibility?
                > > > >
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • prometheus_973
                Hello Sharon and All, Yes, I had photos and wore EK jewelry. It s a familiar thing for former Catholics. I had additional photos of EK masters taped to the
                Message 7 of 9 , Nov 22, 2012
                  Hello Sharon and All,
                  Yes, I had photos and
                  wore EK jewelry. It's
                  a familiar thing for
                  former Catholics.

                  I had additional photos
                  of EK masters taped
                  to the backside of
                  the sun visor and
                  had PT's photo in
                  plain sight down by
                  the ashtray. People
                  would always ask
                  who it was. I guess
                  Jesus' photo or Mary's
                  were well known,
                  plus, the saints always
                  had their names on
                  the photos so no
                  need to explain who
                  it was or why it was
                  there. Well, sometimes
                  non-Catholics would
                  ask and thought it
                  was strange and like
                  carrying a lucky rabbit's
                  foot which is closer to
                  the truth than religionists
                  can/could ever admit.

                  I had multiple photos
                  in every room of the
                  house and carried photos
                  on me and had them
                  on my desk at work.
                  I was rather nuts.

                  It was an odd time
                  when the collapse
                  of the DG-HK transition
                  took place in 1984
                  wasn't it? Many EKists
                  quite when DG was
                  booted in such an
                  uncharitable, unpleasant,
                  disagreeable, nasty, mean-
                  spirited, cruel, vindictive,
                  vicious, spiteful, malicious,
                  callous, unsympathetic,
                  unfeeling, uncaring, cold-
                  hearted; unfriendly,
                  inconsiderate, insensitive,
                  hostile; informal bitchy,
                  catty manner.


                  It was getting bad at
                  the start of the Youth
                  Conference (April 1963)
                  in St. Louis but later,
                  during the seminar
                  had gotten much worse.

                  BTW-When I saw a
                  5x7 B&W photo of
                  DG blowing across
                  the parking lot after
                  that really strange
                  seminar it startled
                  me. I chased it down
                  and after picking it
                  up I thought this was
                  a confirmation of
                  Darwin's downfall.


                  Many months later
                  we had to meet at
                  the ECK Center to
                  listen to Klemp's
                  talk to the H.I.s.
                  Was that a July
                  or October meeting?

                  We were instructed
                  to get rid of Darwin's
                  letters he had written
                  to some of us and his
                  photos because they
                  were dangerous to
                  have due to their Black
                  Magic effects upon us.

                  One 4th commented
                  to me when she came
                  into the center, "Well,
                  if Darwin's photos are
                  Black Magic why aren't
                  Harold's?"

                  I said nothing and thought
                  she didn't get it, and yet
                  she made a good point.
                  White Magic or Black and
                  who decides what is what?
                  And is White Magic really
                  any better? Yes, I think it
                  is. But Klemp doesn't even
                  function on that high of
                  a level.

                  Prometheus



                  Sharon wrote:
                  <giggle> Not only did I keep a photo of Klemp on the TV, I gave one to my son
                  for his wallet & told him Harold would always protect him, and he should talk to
                  him, etc. Years later he told me he thought I was nuts. He said he felt like
                  there was "someone or something" always with him, but it sure as heck wasn't
                  Klemp, and it had nothing to do with ekult.

                  Anyway, when I got on the internet the first place I landed was
                  alt.religion.eckankar, which was quite something back then! An HI told me there
                  were evil entities on the internet and some eckists had actually experienced
                  them coming out of the monitor. So, I put a photo of Klemp right on the wall
                  over the monitor.

                  Gotta laugh, you know? Reminds me of a silly eckstory, an eckist was riding on
                  an airplane and "knew" it was going to crash, so she conjured up little
                  eckanmechanics in her head to tighten all the nuts & bolts. When she debarked,
                  she noticed the pilot and thought wow, he had *no* idea that the plane was going
                  to crash but "the eck" saved him!

                  Oh - while I think of it, Diana - did you ever think about writing a book? It
                  would be fascinating - and I might even buy one new & full price!!

                  Hugs,

                  Sharon

                  "Non" <eckchains@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > And yet there are still those who surround themselves with photos of klemp, in
                  wallets, on dash boards, luggage tags etc.sold by eckankar inc. It is so
                  strange, yet I guess it is just another example of how dangerous the Herd
                  mentality is in us humans. What you describe sounds very much like any ritual
                  done by a Nazi or the KKK, etc. and other Cults and Religions, claiming to have
                  ultimate dogmatic truth, that is only a lot of sticky ugly lies.
                  >
                  > Fortunately, I think the younger generation sees through a lot of bull shit
                  that we were drawn into because we thought that truth and authority and exotic
                  philosophies didn't have to be questioned much. We were more easily fooled than
                  today. It is interesting that the percentage of those unaffiliated with any
                  Religion or Spirituality is increasing, and I hope this trend continues.
                  >
                  > Non ; )
                  >
                  dianastanley wrote:
                  > >
                  > > I left Eck around 25 years ago after being in the middle of the bulls++it
                  between darwin and harold. They were both contacting me trying to convince me
                  they were the real Mahanta.Darwin even called me one night drunk and crying
                  saying he was the real master. I told him to go to bed.
                  > > I saw some of the worst of activities. It was still hard to pull the
                  > > plug on Eck as I had a close nit family of friends. Some like me pulled
                  > > out and others stayed in. Some of them left later. I doubt there are any
                  statistics about how many. They lied so much about so many things
                  > > One thing has always bothered me. I did a painting of the passing of the
                  > > "Rod of Power" they made a print of it,this was after Paul died.
                  > > When Harod took over I was told he and a few others took the painting to the
                  desert did a cerimony Burned the painting and buried it,
                  > > if harold did'nt believe Darwin was the Mahanta but a con man Why did he go
                  to the trouble of burning his painting? There are a lot of ways to destroy a
                  painting.
                  > > I am rambling.
                  > > Diana Stanley
                • Non
                  Interesting about the Catholic part. It makes a little more sense the way you explain it. However, in my gut, I was not able to go that far, and I was also
                  Message 8 of 9 , Nov 23, 2012
                    Interesting about the Catholic part. It makes a little more sense the way you explain it. However, in my gut, I was not able to go that far, and I was also studying about philosophy, Zen, other New Age stuff, Mysticism, Freud, Jung, Tai Chi, Yoga..... I just remember feeling more guilty about my doubts and questions, especially when I went to eck classes. There was something about the eck books and stuff that was intoxicating (toxic) and I couldn't get it out of my mind and actually hated it's affect.

                    Why I had these doubts I think is because I have a very curious nature and I have always been kind of like the kid that saw that the Emperor isn't wearing any clothes, but I was also afraid to say anything and would just hold it in. I think there are a lot of people like this. All they have to do is open up to a slightly higher state of proof, rather than just taking someones word for it. It is OK to be a little skeptical about everything. Those who can't let themselves feel even some slight discomfort about not being dogmatic or knowing for sure, are really very fearful, and not at all as confident or happy as they pretend to be. Prick their bubble and quite often you will get a *rage* reaction and get labeled an agent of kal or some other usual demeaning expression or ignored like shunning. In the end it is a sickness. Kudos to those of us who have made the effort to escape.

                    Cheers!

                    Non ; D

                    --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hello Sharon and All,
                    Yes, I had photos and
                    wore EK jewelry. It's
                    a familiar thing for
                    former Catholics.

                    I had additional photos
                    of EK masters taped
                    to the backside of
                    the sun visor and
                    had PT's photo in
                    plain sight down by
                    the ashtray. People
                    would always ask
                    who it was. I guess
                    Jesus' photo or Mary's
                    were well known,
                    plus, the saints always
                    had their names on
                    the photos so no
                    need to explain who
                    it was or why it was
                    there. Well, sometimes
                    non-Catholics would
                    ask and thought it
                    was strange and like
                    carrying a lucky rabbit's
                    foot which is closer to
                    the truth than religionists
                    can/could ever admit.

                    I had multiple photos
                    in every room of the
                    house and carried photos
                    on me and had them
                    on my desk at work.
                    I was rather nuts.

                    It was an odd time
                    when the collapse
                    of the DG-HK transition
                    took place in 1984
                    wasn't it? Many EKists
                    quite when DG was
                    booted in such an
                    uncharitable, unpleasant,
                    disagreeable, nasty, mean-
                    spirited, cruel, vindictive,
                    vicious, spiteful, malicious,
                    callous, unsympathetic,
                    unfeeling, uncaring, cold-
                    hearted; unfriendly,
                    inconsiderate, insensitive,
                    hostile; informal bitchy,
                    catty manner.


                    It was getting bad at
                    the start of the Youth
                    Conference (April 1963)
                    in St. Louis but later,
                    during the seminar
                    had gotten much worse.

                    BTW-When I saw a
                    5x7 B&W photo of
                    DG blowing across
                    the parking lot after
                    that really strange
                    seminar it startled
                    me. I chased it down
                    and after picking it
                    up I thought this was
                    a confirmation of
                    Darwin's downfall.


                    Many months later
                    we had to meet at
                    the ECK Center to
                    listen to Klemp's
                    talk to the H.I.s.
                    Was that a July
                    or October meeting?

                    We were instructed
                    to get rid of Darwin's
                    letters he had written
                    to some of us and his
                    photos because they
                    were dangerous to
                    have due to their Black
                    Magic effects upon us.

                    One 4th commented
                    to me when she came
                    into the center, "Well,
                    if Darwin's photos are
                    Black Magic why aren't
                    Harold's?"

                    I said nothing and thought
                    she didn't get it, and yet
                    she made a good point.
                    White Magic or Black and
                    who decides what is what?
                    And is White Magic really
                    any better? Yes, I think it
                    is. But Klemp doesn't even
                    function on that high of
                    a level.

                    Prometheus



                    Sharon wrote:
                    <giggle> Not only did I keep a photo of Klemp on the TV, I gave one to my son
                    for his wallet & told him Harold would always protect him, and he should talk to
                    him, etc. Years later he told me he thought I was nuts. He said he felt like
                    there was "someone or something" always with him, but it sure as heck wasn't
                    Klemp, and it had nothing to do with ekult.

                    Anyway, when I got on the internet the first place I landed was
                    alt.religion.eckankar, which was quite something back then! An HI told me there
                    were evil entities on the internet and some eckists had actually experienced
                    them coming out of the monitor. So, I put a photo of Klemp right on the wall
                    over the monitor.

                    Gotta laugh, you know? Reminds me of a silly eckstory, an eckist was riding on
                    an airplane and "knew" it was going to crash, so she conjured up little
                    eckanmechanics in her head to tighten all the nuts & bolts. When she debarked,
                    she noticed the pilot and thought wow, he had *no* idea that the plane was going
                    to crash but "the eck" saved him!

                    Oh - while I think of it, Diana - did you ever think about writing a book? It
                    would be fascinating - and I might even buy one new & full price!!

                    Hugs,

                    Sharon

                    "Non" <eckchains@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > And yet there are still those who surround themselves with photos of klemp, in
                    wallets, on dash boards, luggage tags etc.sold by eckankar inc. It is so
                    strange, yet I guess it is just another example of how dangerous the Herd
                    mentality is in us humans. What you describe sounds very much like any ritual
                    done by a Nazi or the KKK, etc. and other Cults and Religions, claiming to have
                    ultimate dogmatic truth, that is only a lot of sticky ugly lies.
                    >
                    > Fortunately, I think the younger generation sees through a lot of bull shit
                    that we were drawn into because we thought that truth and authority and exotic
                    philosophies didn't have to be questioned much. We were more easily fooled than
                    today. It is interesting that the percentage of those unaffiliated with any
                    Religion or Spirituality is increasing, and I hope this trend continues.
                    >
                    > Non ; )
                    >
                    dianastanley wrote:
                    > >
                    > > I left Eck around 25 years ago after being in the middle of the bulls++it
                    between darwin and harold. They were both contacting me trying to convince me
                    they were the real Mahanta.Darwin even called me one night drunk and crying
                    saying he was the real master. I told him to go to bed.
                    > > I saw some of the worst of activities. It was still hard to pull the
                    > > plug on Eck as I had a close nit family of friends. Some like me pulled
                    > > out and others stayed in. Some of them left later. I doubt there are any
                    statistics about how many. They lied so much about so many things
                    > > One thing has always bothered me. I did a painting of the passing of the
                    > > "Rod of Power" they made a print of it,this was after Paul died.
                    > > When Harod took over I was told he and a few others took the painting to the
                    desert did a cerimony Burned the painting and buried it,
                    > > if harold did'nt believe Darwin was the Mahanta but a con man Why did he go
                    to the trouble of burning his painting? There are a lot of ways to destroy a
                    painting.
                    > > I am rambling.
                    > > Diana Stanley
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