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Re: An article that mentions klemp

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  • harrisonferrel
    I would have to say that the opposite of fear is a lack of concern or even courage, but not anger. But I would agree that fear is a device used by klemp just
    Message 1 of 11 , Nov 13, 2012
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      I would have to say that the opposite of fear is a lack of concern or even courage, but not anger. But I would agree that fear is a device used by klemp just as it is used by all religions to keep people in line and from challenging the leader.

      Anger isn't a bad thing and I remember hearing from eckists, including klemp and a current family member who is still in the cult, that anger is a weakness. Of course it makes sense that they would say this because it is our innate feeling of anger that drives us to resist the bullshit of the cult and its illogical, improbable and absurd notions.

      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer <jepfeiffer@...> wrote:
      >
      > Thanks for the article.  The truth is Klemp can't conceive that any eckist would feel anger or at least not toward him or eckankar because after all how could they, since eckankar and the mahanta is the answer for everything in their lives.  In eckankar anger is very wrong and is believed to show a lack of adjustment to the concepts of eckankar.  It means you are not properly brain washed.  While in, I think I felt more bewildered than angry.
      >  
      > Klemp doesn't care that all of us who woke up from our eckankar induced stupor are angry about the lies and deceit because we are now considered unworthy misfits anyway.  If I am remembering right, supposedly, according to eckankar, we are all damned for simply walking away and will have to re-ingratiate ourselves at some point with our present lem.  Perish the thought! 
      >  
      > Fear is what eckankar uses to keep people from guestioning the lem or the operation of the org.  Anger is the opposite of fear.  So therefore, angry eckist would only be those who are ready to get out of eckankar.   Of course that is undesirable in an eckist and  one of the main reasons you aren't allowed to ask questions about why Paul lied and why they continue to lie to get new people in.  I believe when you learn the truth about how eckankar was founded and how it operates, you come to a changing point.  You either become self delusional to stay in or the lies drive you away.
      >  
      > Instead of eckankar admitting that the lies are a problem, they label the ones who are offended by the lies as misfits.  The whole concept is insane in itself for an org that talks so much about spiritual truth.  How can you justify obviously lies and call it spiritual truth?  That is what they do and if you don't buy it, you are of no use to them.  You are not willing to deceive yourself for the sake of eckankar. 
      >  
      > My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so disturbing for you?  Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling?  Can you clarify for yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to you? 
      >  
      > The article speaks of how anger can be a good catalyst for needed change.  I think that is the key to handling it well.  Anger is something normal that we all feel.  To say different would be a lie.  I think when anger is acute, it shows a need to change whatever causes it whether it is a change in self or the external conditions that caused it.  I believe that is what prompted most of us to get out of insane eckankar. 
      >  
      > You are as normal as anyone else with your anger.  I hope you can clarify it and use it for your own good.  You obviously are most intelligent and capable of handling it.
      >  
      > With much high regards from another feeling eckist.  good luck and please be kind to yourself. 
      >
      > --- On Sat, 11/10/12, harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > From: harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...>
      > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] An article that mentions klemp
      > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Saturday, November 10, 2012, 7:26 PM
      >
      >
      >
      >  
      >
      >
      >
      > Here's an article mentioning klemp and the anger nonsense he instills in people.
      >
      > http://moosebusiness.com/anger-doesnt-always-need-managing/
      >
    • Janice Pfeiffer
      I guess that what I meant was that once a person recognizes the fear that he has allowed to over come his senses, a natural reaction is to then get angry.  I
      Message 2 of 11 , Nov 13, 2012
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        I guess that what I meant was that once a person recognizes the fear that he has allowed to over come his senses, a natural reaction is to then get angry.  I know I felt very angry for the first few years after I left. 

        --- On Tue, 11/13/12, harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...> wrote:

        From: harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...>
        Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: An article that mentions klemp
        To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Tuesday, November 13, 2012, 8:56 PM

         
        I would have to say that the opposite of fear is a lack of concern or even courage, but not anger. But I would agree that fear is a device used by klemp just as it is used by all religions to keep people in line and from challenging the leader.

        Anger isn't a bad thing and I remember hearing from eckists, including klemp and a current family member who is still in the cult, that anger is a weakness. Of course it makes sense that they would say this because it is our innate feeling of anger that drives us to resist the bullshit of the cult and its illogical, improbable and absurd notions.

        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer <jepfeiffer@...> wrote:
        >
        > Thanks for the article.  The truth is Klemp can't conceive that any eckist would feel anger or at least not toward him or eckankar because after all how could they, since eckankar and the mahanta is the answer for everything in their lives.  In eckankar anger is very wrong and is believed to show a lack of adjustment to the concepts of eckankar.  It means you are not properly brain washed.  While in, I think I felt more bewildered than angry.
        >  
        > Klemp doesn't care that all of us who woke up from our eckankar induced stupor are angry about the lies and deceit because we are now considered unworthy misfits anyway.  If I am remembering right, supposedly, according to eckankar, we are all damned for simply walking away and will have to re-ingratiate ourselves at some point with our present lem.  Perish the thought! 
        >  
        > Fear is what eckankar uses to keep people from guestioning the lem or the operation of the org.  Anger is the opposite of fear.  So therefore, angry eckist would only be those who are ready to get out of eckankar.   Of course that is undesirable in an eckist and  one of the main reasons you aren't allowed to ask questions about why Paul lied and why they continue to lie to get new people in.  I believe when you learn the truth about how eckankar was founded and how it operates, you come to a changing point.  You either become self delusional to stay in or the lies drive you away.
        >  
        > Instead of eckankar admitting that the lies are a problem, they label the ones who are offended by the lies as misfits.  The whole concept is insane in itself for an org that talks so much about spiritual truth.  How can you justify obviously lies and call it spiritual truth?  That is what they do and if you don't buy it, you are of no use to them.  You are not willing to deceive yourself for the sake of eckankar. 
        >  
        > My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so disturbing for you?  Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling?  Can you clarify for yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to you? 
        >  
        > The article speaks of how anger can be a good catalyst for needed change.  I think that is the key to handling it well.  Anger is something normal that we all feel.  To say different would be a lie.  I think when anger is acute, it shows a need to change whatever causes it whether it is a change in self or the external conditions that caused it.  I believe that is what prompted most of us to get out of insane eckankar. 
        >  
        > You are as normal as anyone else with your anger.  I hope you can clarify it and use it for your own good.  You obviously are most intelligent and capable of handling it.
        >  
        > With much high regards from another feeling eckist.  good luck and please be kind to yourself. 
        >
        > --- On Sat, 11/10/12, harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > From: harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...>
        > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] An article that mentions klemp
        > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Saturday, November 10, 2012, 7:26 PM
        >
        >
        >
        >  
        >
        >
        >
        > Here's an article mentioning klemp and the anger nonsense he instills in people.
        >
        > http://moosebusiness.com/anger-doesnt-always-need-managing/
        >

      • Non
        For my few cents worth, whether anger or fear has an opposite is interesting. Lack of anger may be apathy, but it also may be denial and delusion. Repression
        Message 3 of 11 , Nov 14, 2012
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          For my few cents worth, whether anger or fear has an opposite is interesting. Lack of anger may be apathy, but it also may be denial and delusion. Repression of anger may lead to depression and then even fear of all emotions, hence the eck indifference called Love.

          Then again, anger and fear are very closely tied together biologically in the fight/flight response. If this is shut down too much, you just become mush mush, an eck blob borg, or a hypocritical abuser of those lower in initiations. Such is the Way of a False hierarchical RELIGION/CULT eckankar.

          I've been seeing ADS in the Newspaper for eckankar "Worship Services" in the section with all the other Churches, competing and quite a few more New Age "Secret" type religions/Cults. Man, take your pick. eckankar is just worse, in my book because of the godman living eck master crap, which they don't advertise up front and that is just dishonest.

          Non ; )

          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer <jepfeiffer@...> wrote:
          >
          > I guess that what I meant was that once a person recognizes the fear that he has allowed to over come his senses, a natural reaction is to then get angry.  I know I felt very angry for the first few years after I left. 
          >
          > --- On Tue, 11/13/12, harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > From: harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...>
          > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: An article that mentions klemp
          > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: Tuesday, November 13, 2012, 8:56 PM
          >
          >
          >
          >  
          >
          >
          >
          > I would have to say that the opposite of fear is a lack of concern or even courage, but not anger. But I would agree that fear is a device used by klemp just as it is used by all religions to keep people in line and from challenging the leader.
          >
          > Anger isn't a bad thing and I remember hearing from eckists, including klemp and a current family member who is still in the cult, that anger is a weakness. Of course it makes sense that they would say this because it is our innate feeling of anger that drives us to resist the bullshit of the cult and its illogical, improbable and absurd notions.
          >
          > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer <jepfeiffer@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Thanks for the article.  The truth is Klemp can't conceive that any eckist would feel anger or at least not toward him or eckankar because after all how could they, since eckankar and the mahanta is the answer for everything in their lives.  In eckankar anger is very wrong and is believed to show a lack of adjustment to the concepts of eckankar.  It means you are not properly brain washed.  While in, I think I felt more bewildered than angry.
          > >  
          > > Klemp doesn't care that all of us who woke up from our eckankar induced stupor are angry about the lies and deceit because we are now considered unworthy misfits anyway.  If I am remembering right, supposedly, according to eckankar, we are all damned for simply walking away and will have to re-ingratiate ourselves at some point with our present lem.  Perish the thought! 
          > >  
          > > Fear is what eckankar uses to keep people from guestioning the lem or the operation of the org.  Anger is the opposite of fear.  So therefore, angry eckist would only be those who are ready to get out of eckankar.   Of course that is undesirable in an eckist and  one of the main reasons you aren't allowed to ask questions about why Paul lied and why they continue to lie to get new people in.  I believe when you learn the truth about how eckankar was founded and how it operates, you come to a changing point.  You either become self delusional to stay in or the lies drive you away.
          > >  
          > > Instead of eckankar admitting that the lies are a problem, they label the ones who are offended by the lies as misfits.  The whole concept is insane in itself for an org that talks so much about spiritual truth.  How can you justify obviously lies and call it spiritual truth?  That is what they do and if you don't buy it, you are of no use to them.  You are not willing to deceive yourself for the sake of eckankar. 
          > >  
          > > My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so disturbing for you?  Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling?  Can you clarify for yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to you? 
          > >  
          > > The article speaks of how anger can be a good catalyst for needed change.  I think that is the key to handling it well.  Anger is something normal that we all feel.  To say different would be a lie.  I think when anger is acute, it shows a need to change whatever causes it whether it is a change in self or the external conditions that caused it.  I believe that is what prompted most of us to get out of insane eckankar. 
          > >  
          > > You are as normal as anyone else with your anger.  I hope you can clarify it and use it for your own good.  You obviously are most intelligent and capable of handling it.
          > >  
          > > With much high regards from another feeling eckist.  good luck and please be kind to yourself. 
          > >
          > > --- On Sat, 11/10/12, harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@> wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > From: harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@>
          > > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] An article that mentions klemp
          > > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
          > > Date: Saturday, November 10, 2012, 7:26 PM
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >  
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Here's an article mentioning klemp and the anger nonsense he instills in people.
          > >
          > > http://moosebusiness.com/anger-doesnt-always-need-managing/
          > >
          >
        • Russ Rodnick
          our innate feeling of anger that drives us to resist the bullshit of the cult and its illogical, improbable and absurd notions   This may be your experience
          Message 4 of 11 , Nov 14, 2012
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            our innate feeling of anger that drives us to resist the bullshit of the cult and its illogical, improbable and absurd notions
             
            This may be your experience but it isn't mine. All this is is justification of anger as if anger is the best we have. It's about survival, when threatened we either succumb or fight back. It's instinct and necessary but to continue to be angry after the threat is gone is not in my opinion a healthy place. But it's a choice. Anger may have gotten you out of Eckankar but for me it was just that I couldn't justify the contradictions anymore and why should I?
             
            The reality of the higher planes is real; so thanks to Eckankar for the cosmology because it gave me a better picture of reality. (I know, they plaigarized the cosmology) but this is where I really go it. I parted ways with them over the whole "Mahanta, the LEM" thing.
             
            I still say, whatever gets you through the night. I found that I don't need to have my hand held, so to speak. But anger? Nah, I reject that, beyond the situation where I said shove it.
             
            It burns if you keep manifesting it and becomes your chronic state. At least this is MY experience.
             
            Russ

            From: harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...>
            To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 2:56 PM
            Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: An article that mentions klemp
             
            I would have to say that the opposite of fear is a lack of concern or even courage, but not anger. But I would agree that fear is a device used by klemp just as it is used by all religions to keep people in line and from challenging the leader.

            Anger isn't a bad thing and I remember hearing from eckists, including klemp and a current family member who is still in the cult, that anger is a weakness. Of course it makes sense that they would say this because it is our innate feeling of anger that drives us to resist the bullshit of the cult and its illogical, improbable and absurd notions.

            --- In mailto:EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous%40yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer <jepfeiffer@...> wrote:
            >
            > Thanks for the article.  The truth is Klemp can't conceive that any eckist would feel anger or at least not toward him or eckankar because after all how could they, since eckankar and the mahanta is the answer for everything in their lives.  In eckankar anger is very wrong and is believed to show a lack of adjustment to the concepts of eckankar.  It means you are not properly brain washed.  While in, I think I felt more bewildered than angry.
            >  
            > Klemp doesn't care that all of us who woke up from our eckankar induced stupor are angry about the lies and deceit because we are now considered unworthy misfits anyway.  If I am remembering right, supposedly, according to eckankar, we are all damned for simply walking away and will have to re-ingratiate ourselves at some point with our present lem.  Perish the thought! 
            >  
            > Fear is what eckankar uses to keep people from guestioning the lem or the operation of the org.  Anger is the opposite of fear.  So therefore, angry eckist would only be those who are ready to get out of eckankar.   Of course that is undesirable in an eckist and  one of the main reasons you aren't allowed to ask questions about why Paul lied and why they continue to lie to get new people in.  I believe when you learn the truth about how eckankar was founded and how it operates, you come to a changing point.  You either become self delusional to stay in or the lies drive you away.
            >  
            > Instead of eckankar admitting that the lies are a problem, they label the ones who are offended by the lies as misfits.  The whole concept is insane in itself for an org that talks so much about spiritual truth.  How can you justify obviously lies and call it spiritual truth?  That is what they do and if you don't buy it, you are of no use to them.  You are not willing to deceive yourself for the sake of eckankar. 
            >  
            > My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so disturbing for you?  Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling?  Can you clarify for yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to you? 
            >  
            > The article speaks of how anger can be a good catalyst for needed change.  I think that is the key to handling it well.  Anger is something normal that we all feel.  To say different would be a lie.  I think when anger is acute, it shows a need to change whatever causes it whether it is a change in self or the external conditions that caused it.  I believe that is what prompted most of us to get out of insane eckankar. 
            >  
            > You are as normal as anyone else with your anger.  I hope you can clarify it and use it for your own good.  You obviously are most intelligent and capable of handling it.
            >  
            > With much high regards from another feeling eckist.  good luck and please be kind to yourself. 
            >
            > --- On Sat, 11/10/12, harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > From: harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...>
            > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] An article that mentions klemp
            > To: mailto:EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous%40yahoogroups.com
            > Date: Saturday, November 10, 2012, 7:26 PM
            >
            >
            >
            >  
            >
            >
            >
            > Here's an article mentioning klemp and the anger nonsense he instills in people.
            >
            > http://moosebusiness.com/anger-doesnt-always-need-managing/
            >

          • harrisonferrel
            Your question: My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so disturbing for you? Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling? Can you
            Message 5 of 11 , Dec 10, 2012
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              Your question: "My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so disturbing for you? Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling? Can you clarify for yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to you? "


              ANSWER: Through Eckankar I've met a number of people who talked about anger being an evil of sorts. This is a common thread among cults — to call someone angry. The idea is basically to keep people from getting angry at the nonsense you're peddling. Klemp and Twitchell talked about the evils of anger. The problem of course is that anger is a tool that any normal mind has; it motivates people to stand up for themselves and to oppose groups like eckankar that are trying to get away with injuring people.



              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "harrisonferrel" <harrisonferrel@...> wrote:
              >
              > I would have to say that the opposite of fear is a lack of concern or even courage, but not anger. But I would agree that fear is a device used by klemp just as it is used by all religions to keep people in line and from challenging the leader.
              >
              > Anger isn't a bad thing and I remember hearing from eckists, including klemp and a current family member who is still in the cult, that anger is a weakness. Of course it makes sense that they would say this because it is our innate feeling of anger that drives us to resist the bullshit of the cult and its illogical, improbable and absurd notions.
              >
              > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer <jepfeiffer@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Thanks for the article.  The truth is Klemp can't conceive that any eckist would feel anger or at least not toward him or eckankar because after all how could they, since eckankar and the mahanta is the answer for everything in their lives.  In eckankar anger is very wrong and is believed to show a lack of adjustment to the concepts of eckankar.  It means you are not properly brain washed.  While in, I think I felt more bewildered than angry.
              > >  
              > > Klemp doesn't care that all of us who woke up from our eckankar induced stupor are angry about the lies and deceit because we are now considered unworthy misfits anyway.  If I am remembering right, supposedly, according to eckankar, we are all damned for simply walking away and will have to re-ingratiate ourselves at some point with our present lem.  Perish the thought! 
              > >  
              > > Fear is what eckankar uses to keep people from guestioning the lem or the operation of the org.  Anger is the opposite of fear.  So therefore, angry eckist would only be those who are ready to get out of eckankar.   Of course that is undesirable in an eckist and  one of the main reasons you aren't allowed to ask questions about why Paul lied and why they continue to lie to get new people in.  I believe when you learn the truth about how eckankar was founded and how it operates, you come to a changing point.  You either become self delusional to stay in or the lies drive you away.
              > >  
              > > Instead of eckankar admitting that the lies are a problem, they label the ones who are offended by the lies as misfits.  The whole concept is insane in itself for an org that talks so much about spiritual truth.  How can you justify obviously lies and call it spiritual truth?  That is what they do and if you don't buy it, you are of no use to them.  You are not willing to deceive yourself for the sake of eckankar. 
              > >  
              > > My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so disturbing for you?  Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling?  Can you clarify for yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to you? 
              > >  
              > > The article speaks of how anger can be a good catalyst for needed change.  I think that is the key to handling it well.  Anger is something normal that we all feel.  To say different would be a lie.  I think when anger is acute, it shows a need to change whatever causes it whether it is a change in self or the external conditions that caused it.  I believe that is what prompted most of us to get out of insane eckankar. 
              > >  
              > > You are as normal as anyone else with your anger.  I hope you can clarify it and use it for your own good.  You obviously are most intelligent and capable of handling it.
              > >  
              > > With much high regards from another feeling eckist.  good luck and please be kind to yourself. 
              > >
              > > --- On Sat, 11/10/12, harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@> wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > > From: harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@>
              > > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] An article that mentions klemp
              > > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
              > > Date: Saturday, November 10, 2012, 7:26 PM
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >  
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Here's an article mentioning klemp and the anger nonsense he instills in people.
              > >
              > > http://moosebusiness.com/anger-doesnt-always-need-managing/
              > >
              >
            • prometheus_973
              Hello Harrison and All, Most Eck H.I.s are as two-faced as Klemp. One face is shown when in public and the other face is shown when doing EK business. I ve
              Message 6 of 11 , Dec 10, 2012
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                Hello Harrison and All,
                Most Eck H.I.s are as
                two-faced as Klemp.
                One face is shown when
                in public and the other
                face is shown when
                doing EK business.

                I've angered other
                H.I.s so much (regarding
                EK business) that
                they've hung up on
                me! One was a RESA!
                I was the one frustrated
                with getting people
                (H.I.s) attuned to the
                programs or positions
                they had signed up
                for. The business side
                of Eckankar was very
                stressful, not fun, and
                was very unrewarding.

                So, being nice, for
                many H.I.s, is all an
                act. And most times
                the business side of
                Eckankar brings it out.
                Their angry and negative
                tendencies are merely
                denied, hidden, and
                swept under the rug
                "as if" it doesn't exist.
                Just put on a happy face!

                However, the biggest
                EK excuse is that the
                anger was "mocked up"
                in order to express
                a point or to better
                communicate with
                someone on a lower
                level of consciousness.
                I'm sure you wouldn't
                be surprised to know
                how often this excuse
                is used.

                Twitchell was good
                at making up excuses
                when questioned about
                contradictions of non-
                spiritual behaviour of
                his H.I.s such as anger.
                But, Twitchell was an
                expert liar, manipulator,
                and conman. He had
                to cover-up his own
                hypocrisy (as does Klemp)
                and that of his long-time
                followers with convincing
                rationalizations. EKists
                merely pretend, dream,
                deny the truth, and play
                the game of follow-the-
                leader.

                Prometheus

                harrisonferrel wrote:
                Your question: "My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so
                disturbing for you? Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling? Can you
                clarify for yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to
                you? "


                ANSWER: Through Eckankar I've met a number of people who talked about anger
                being an evil of sorts. This is a common thread among cults — to call someone
                angry. The idea is basically to keep people from getting angry at the nonsense
                you're peddling. Klemp and Twitchell talked about the evils of anger. The
                problem of course is that anger is a tool that any normal mind has; it motivates
                people to stand up for themselves and to oppose groups like eckankar that are
                trying to get away with injuring people.




                <harrisonferrel wrote:
                >
                > I would have to say that the opposite of fear is a lack of concern or even
                courage, but not anger. But I would agree that fear is a device used by klemp
                just as it is used by all religions to keep people in line and from challenging
                the leader.
                >
                > Anger isn't a bad thing and I remember hearing from eckists, including klemp
                and a current family member who is still in the cult, that anger is a weakness.
                Of course it makes sense that they would say this because it is our innate
                feeling of anger that drives us to resist the bullshit of the cult and its
                illogical, improbable and absurd notions.
                >
                Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
                > >
                > > Thanks for the article. The truth is Klemp can't conceive that any eckist
                would feel anger or at least not toward him or eckankar because after all how
                could they, since eckankar and the mahanta is the answer for everything in their
                lives. In eckankar anger is very wrong and is believed to show a lack of
                adjustment to the concepts of eckankar. It means you are not properly brain
                washed. While in, I think I felt more bewildered than angry.
                > >
                > > Klemp doesn't care that all of us who woke up from our eckankar induced
                stupor are angry about the lies and deceit because we are now considered
                unworthy misfits anyway. If I am remembering right, supposedly, according to
                eckankar, we are all damned for simply walking away and will have to
                re-ingratiate ourselves at some point with our present lem. Perish the
                thought!
                > >
                > > Fear is what eckankar uses to keep people from guestioning the lem or the
                operation of the org. Anger is the opposite of fear. So therefore, angry
                eckist would only be those who are ready to get out of eckankar. Of course
                that is undesirable in an eckist and one of the main reasons you aren't
                allowed to ask questions about why Paul lied and why they continue to lie to get
                new people in. I believe when you learn the truth about how eckankar was
                founded and how it operates, you come to a changing point. You either become
                self delusional to stay in or the lies drive you away.
                > >
                > > Instead of eckankar admitting that the lies are a problem, they label the
                ones who are offended by the lies as misfits. The whole concept is insane in
                itself for an org that talks so much about spiritual truth. How can you
                justify obviously lies and call it spiritual truth? That is what they do and
                if you don't buy it, you are of no use to them. You are not willing to deceive
                yourself for the sake of eckankar.
                > >
                > > My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so disturbing for
                you? Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling? Can you clarify for
                yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to you?
                > >
                > > The article speaks of how anger can be a good catalyst for needed change.
                I think that is the key to handling it well. Anger is something normal that we
                all feel. To say different would be a lie. I think when anger is acute, it
                shows a need to change whatever causes it whether it is a change in self or the
                external conditions that caused it. I believe that is what prompted most of us
                to get out of insane eckankar.
                > >
                > > You are as normal as anyone else with your anger. I hope you can clarify
                it and use it for your own good. You obviously are most intelligent and
                capable of handling it.
                > >
                > > With much high regards from another feeling eckist. good luck and please
                be kind to yourself.
                > >
                harrisonferrel wrote:
                > >

                > >
                > > Here's an article mentioning klemp and the anger nonsense he instills in
                people.
                > >
                http://moosebusiness.com/anger-doesnt-always-need-managing/
              • postekcon
                I consider anger to be one of the most important human traits, and one which separates us from the animal kingdom. Most folks are afraid of anger. They think
                Message 7 of 11 , Dec 10, 2012
                • 0 Attachment
                  I consider 'anger' to be one of the most important human traits, and one which separates us from the animal kingdom. Most folks are afraid of anger. They think it just means hollering at your neighbor or life etc. But on a scale of one to ten, that's at the high end.

                  Without anger, the human race would behave in zombie fashion, there would be no enterprise, no advancement, no athletes etc., no betterment in anything at all. I am not a medical person, but I know there there is a link between adrenaline and anger. The rising of adrenaline is linked to survival and 'get-up-and-go'. In humans anger is a natural emotional response which directly triggers adrenaline. I believe that without adrenaline there would be no human action for change or betterment etc.

                  This is why in ekult 'anger' is incorrectly portrayed as an evil passion of the mind, and so much attention is put upon its natural suppression. Ekult's objective is to have passive zombie followers - and it works!
                  -Postekcon


                  --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hello Harrison and All,
                  > Most Eck H.I.s are as
                  > two-faced as Klemp.
                  > One face is shown when
                  > in public and the other
                  > face is shown when
                  > doing EK business.
                  >
                  > I've angered other
                  > H.I.s so much (regarding
                  > EK business) that
                  > they've hung up on
                  > me! One was a RESA!
                  > I was the one frustrated
                  > with getting people
                  > (H.I.s) attuned to the
                  > programs or positions
                  > they had signed up
                  > for. The business side
                  > of Eckankar was very
                  > stressful, not fun, and
                  > was very unrewarding.
                  >
                  > So, being nice, for
                  > many H.I.s, is all an
                  > act. And most times
                  > the business side of
                  > Eckankar brings it out.
                  > Their angry and negative
                  > tendencies are merely
                  > denied, hidden, and
                  > swept under the rug
                  > "as if" it doesn't exist.
                  > Just put on a happy face!
                  >
                  > However, the biggest
                  > EK excuse is that the
                  > anger was "mocked up"
                  > in order to express
                  > a point or to better
                  > communicate with
                  > someone on a lower
                  > level of consciousness.
                  > I'm sure you wouldn't
                  > be surprised to know
                  > how often this excuse
                  > is used.
                  >
                  > Twitchell was good
                  > at making up excuses
                  > when questioned about
                  > contradictions of non-
                  > spiritual behaviour of
                  > his H.I.s such as anger.
                  > But, Twitchell was an
                  > expert liar, manipulator,
                  > and conman. He had
                  > to cover-up his own
                  > hypocrisy (as does Klemp)
                  > and that of his long-time
                  > followers with convincing
                  > rationalizations. EKists
                  > merely pretend, dream,
                  > deny the truth, and play
                  > the game of follow-the-
                  > leader.
                  >
                  > Prometheus
                  >
                  > harrisonferrel wrote:
                  > Your question: "My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so
                  > disturbing for you? Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling? Can you
                  > clarify for yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to
                  > you? "
                  >
                  >
                  > ANSWER: Through Eckankar I've met a number of people who talked about anger
                  > being an evil of sorts. This is a common thread among cults — to call someone
                  > angry. The idea is basically to keep people from getting angry at the nonsense
                  > you're peddling. Klemp and Twitchell talked about the evils of anger. The
                  > problem of course is that anger is a tool that any normal mind has; it motivates
                  > people to stand up for themselves and to oppose groups like eckankar that are
                  > trying to get away with injuring people.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > <harrisonferrel wrote:
                  > >
                  > > I would have to say that the opposite of fear is a lack of concern or even
                  > courage, but not anger. But I would agree that fear is a device used by klemp
                  > just as it is used by all religions to keep people in line and from challenging
                  > the leader.
                  > >
                  > > Anger isn't a bad thing and I remember hearing from eckists, including klemp
                  > and a current family member who is still in the cult, that anger is a weakness.
                  > Of course it makes sense that they would say this because it is our innate
                  > feeling of anger that drives us to resist the bullshit of the cult and its
                  > illogical, improbable and absurd notions.
                  > >
                  > Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Thanks for the article. The truth is Klemp can't conceive that any eckist
                  > would feel anger or at least not toward him or eckankar because after all how
                  > could they, since eckankar and the mahanta is the answer for everything in their
                  > lives. In eckankar anger is very wrong and is believed to show a lack of
                  > adjustment to the concepts of eckankar. It means you are not properly brain
                  > washed. While in, I think I felt more bewildered than angry.
                  > > >
                  > > > Klemp doesn't care that all of us who woke up from our eckankar induced
                  > stupor are angry about the lies and deceit because we are now considered
                  > unworthy misfits anyway. If I am remembering right, supposedly, according to
                  > eckankar, we are all damned for simply walking away and will have to
                  > re-ingratiate ourselves at some point with our present lem. Perish the
                  > thought!
                  > > >
                  > > > Fear is what eckankar uses to keep people from guestioning the lem or the
                  > operation of the org. Anger is the opposite of fear. So therefore, angry
                  > eckist would only be those who are ready to get out of eckankar. Of course
                  > that is undesirable in an eckist and one of the main reasons you aren't
                  > allowed to ask questions about why Paul lied and why they continue to lie to get
                  > new people in. I believe when you learn the truth about how eckankar was
                  > founded and how it operates, you come to a changing point. You either become
                  > self delusional to stay in or the lies drive you away.
                  > > >
                  > > > Instead of eckankar admitting that the lies are a problem, they label the
                  > ones who are offended by the lies as misfits. The whole concept is insane in
                  > itself for an org that talks so much about spiritual truth. How can you
                  > justify obviously lies and call it spiritual truth? That is what they do and
                  > if you don't buy it, you are of no use to them. You are not willing to deceive
                  > yourself for the sake of eckankar.
                  > > >
                  > > > My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so disturbing for
                  > you? Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling? Can you clarify for
                  > yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to you?
                  > > >
                  > > > The article speaks of how anger can be a good catalyst for needed change.
                  > I think that is the key to handling it well. Anger is something normal that we
                  > all feel. To say different would be a lie. I think when anger is acute, it
                  > shows a need to change whatever causes it whether it is a change in self or the
                  > external conditions that caused it. I believe that is what prompted most of us
                  > to get out of insane eckankar.
                  > > >
                  > > > You are as normal as anyone else with your anger. I hope you can clarify
                  > it and use it for your own good. You obviously are most intelligent and
                  > capable of handling it.
                  > > >
                  > > > With much high regards from another feeling eckist. good luck and please
                  > be kind to yourself.
                  > > >
                  > harrisonferrel wrote:
                  > > >
                  >
                  > > >
                  > > > Here's an article mentioning klemp and the anger nonsense he instills in
                  > people.
                  > > >
                  > http://moosebusiness.com/anger-doesnt-always-need-managing/
                  >
                • prometheus_973
                  Hello Postekcon and All, I agree that anger is natural, and normal for humans to express and to feel. Controlling it is important, however, Eckankar is all
                  Message 8 of 11 , Dec 10, 2012
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hello Postekcon and All,
                    I agree that anger is natural,
                    and normal for humans
                    to express and to feel.
                    Controlling it is important,
                    however, Eckankar is all
                    about over control while
                    denying feelings (emotions)
                    and expressing them because
                    these are of the Astral (2nd)
                    Plane and that's bad. ECKists
                    pretend they're not of
                    the earth (physical) Plane.

                    [How does that work with
                    DNA and ancestry? Just
                    ignore it right! I'll bet the
                    EKists that get caught up
                    with the ancestry thing
                    don't get promoted if the
                    RESA's spys hear about it
                    and squeal on them. Soul
                    has no DNA or ancestry
                    that can be traced but
                    through dreams, correct?
                    And, Soul is neither male
                    or female too, right?]

                    Eckists need to believe
                    that they're higher and
                    more spiritually advanced
                    than all others, but fail
                    to realize that this is the
                    same lie that all other
                    religions tell their members.
                    It's a trap for the ego.
                    ECKists even have a scale
                    with their so-called 'level"
                    number printed upon
                    a membership card that
                    they paid for. That means
                    it's all real and these guys
                    are truly spiritual giants
                    and highly evolved Souls.
                    It's in print for God's sake!

                    Honestly, would these
                    nice and friendly EK people
                    lie about all of this stuff?
                    Klemp does that's for sure!
                    Or, are these EKists as
                    deluded as many Christians
                    are and actually believe
                    this crap? YES! ECKists are
                    just as gullible and deluded
                    with faith and belief as
                    are Christians, Jews, Muslims,
                    Mormons, Scientologists,
                    etc.

                    Prometheus


                    postekcon wrote:
                    I consider 'anger' to be one of the most important human traits, and one which
                    separates us from the animal kingdom. Most folks are afraid of anger. They think
                    it just means hollering at your neighbor or life etc. But on a scale of one to
                    ten, that's at the high end.

                    Without anger, the human race would behave in zombie fashion, there would be no
                    enterprise, no advancement, no athletes etc., no betterment in anything at all.
                    I am not a medical person, but I know there there is a link between adrenaline
                    and anger. The rising of adrenaline is linked to survival and 'get-up-and-go'.
                    In humans anger is a natural emotional response which directly triggers
                    adrenaline. I believe that without adrenaline there would be no human action for
                    change or betterment etc.

                    This is why in ekult 'anger' is incorrectly portrayed as an evil passion of the
                    mind, and so much attention is put upon its natural suppression. Ekult's
                    objective is to have passive zombie followers - and it works!
                    -Postekcon


                    --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                    <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hello Harrison and All,
                    > Most Eck H.I.s are as
                    > two-faced as Klemp.
                    > One face is shown when
                    > in public and the other
                    > face is shown when
                    > doing EK business.
                    >
                    > I've angered other
                    > H.I.s so much (regarding
                    > EK business) that
                    > they've hung up on
                    > me! One was a RESA!
                    > I was the one frustrated
                    > with getting people
                    > (H.I.s) attuned to the
                    > programs or positions
                    > they had signed up
                    > for. The business side
                    > of Eckankar was very
                    > stressful, not fun, and
                    > was very unrewarding.
                    >
                    > So, being nice, for
                    > many H.I.s, is all an
                    > act. And most times
                    > the business side of
                    > Eckankar brings it out.
                    > Their angry and negative
                    > tendencies are merely
                    > denied, hidden, and
                    > swept under the rug
                    > "as if" it doesn't exist.
                    > Just put on a happy face!
                    >
                    > However, the biggest
                    > EK excuse is that the
                    > anger was "mocked up"
                    > in order to express
                    > a point or to better
                    > communicate with
                    > someone on a lower
                    > level of consciousness.
                    > I'm sure you wouldn't
                    > be surprised to know
                    > how often this excuse
                    > is used.
                    >
                    > Twitchell was good
                    > at making up excuses
                    > when questioned about
                    > contradictions of non-
                    > spiritual behaviour of
                    > his H.I.s such as anger.
                    > But, Twitchell was an
                    > expert liar, manipulator,
                    > and conman. He had
                    > to cover-up his own
                    > hypocrisy (as does Klemp)
                    > and that of his long-time
                    > followers with convincing
                    > rationalizations. EKists
                    > merely pretend, dream,
                    > deny the truth, and play
                    > the game of follow-the-
                    > leader.
                    >
                    > Prometheus
                    >
                    > harrisonferrel wrote:
                    > Your question: "My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so
                    > disturbing for you? Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling? Can you
                    > clarify for yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to
                    > you? "
                    >
                    >
                    > ANSWER: Through Eckankar I've met a number of people who talked about anger
                    > being an evil of sorts. This is a common thread among cults — to call someone
                    > angry. The idea is basically to keep people from getting angry at the nonsense
                    > you're peddling. Klemp and Twitchell talked about the evils of anger. The
                    > problem of course is that anger is a tool that any normal mind has; it
                    motivates
                    > people to stand up for themselves and to oppose groups like eckankar that are
                    > trying to get away with injuring people.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > <harrisonferrel wrote:
                    > >
                    > > I would have to say that the opposite of fear is a lack of concern or even
                    > courage, but not anger. But I would agree that fear is a device used by klemp
                    > just as it is used by all religions to keep people in line and from
                    challenging
                    > the leader.
                    > >
                    > > Anger isn't a bad thing and I remember hearing from eckists, including klemp
                    > and a current family member who is still in the cult, that anger is a
                    weakness.
                    > Of course it makes sense that they would say this because it is our innate
                    > feeling of anger that drives us to resist the bullshit of the cult and its
                    > illogical, improbable and absurd notions.
                    > >
                    > Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Thanks for the article. The truth is Klemp can't conceive that any eckist
                    > would feel anger or at least not toward him or eckankar because after all how
                    > could they, since eckankar and the mahanta is the answer for everything in
                    their
                    > lives. In eckankar anger is very wrong and is believed to show a lack of
                    > adjustment to the concepts of eckankar. It means you are not properly brain
                    > washed. While in, I think I felt more bewildered than angry.
                    > > >
                    > > > Klemp doesn't care that all of us who woke up from our eckankar induced
                    > stupor are angry about the lies and deceit because we are now considered
                    > unworthy misfits anyway. If I am remembering right, supposedly, according to
                    > eckankar, we are all damned for simply walking away and will have to
                    > re-ingratiate ourselves at some point with our present lem. Perish the
                    > thought!
                    > > >
                    > > > Fear is what eckankar uses to keep people from guestioning the lem or the
                    > operation of the org. Anger is the opposite of fear. So therefore, angry
                    > eckist would only be those who are ready to get out of eckankar. Of course
                    > that is undesirable in an eckist and one of the main reasons you aren't
                    > allowed to ask questions about why Paul lied and why they continue to lie to
                    get
                    > new people in. I believe when you learn the truth about how eckankar was
                    > founded and how it operates, you come to a changing point. You either become
                    > self delusional to stay in or the lies drive you away.
                    > > >
                    > > > Instead of eckankar admitting that the lies are a problem, they label the
                    > ones who are offended by the lies as misfits. The whole concept is insane in
                    > itself for an org that talks so much about spiritual truth. How can you
                    > justify obviously lies and call it spiritual truth? That is what they do and
                    > if you don't buy it, you are of no use to them. You are not willing to
                    deceive
                    > yourself for the sake of eckankar.
                    > > >
                    > > > My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so disturbing for
                    > you? Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling? Can you clarify for
                    > yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to you?
                    > > >
                    > > > The article speaks of how anger can be a good catalyst for needed change.
                    > I think that is the key to handling it well. Anger is something normal that
                    we
                    > all feel. To say different would be a lie. I think when anger is acute, it
                    > shows a need to change whatever causes it whether it is a change in self or
                    the
                    > external conditions that caused it. I believe that is what prompted most of
                    us
                    > to get out of insane eckankar.
                    > > >
                    > > > You are as normal as anyone else with your anger. I hope you can clarify
                    > it and use it for your own good. You obviously are most intelligent and
                    > capable of handling it.
                    > > >
                    > > > With much high regards from another feeling eckist. good luck and please
                    > be kind to yourself.
                    > > >
                    > harrisonferrel wrote:
                    > > >
                    >
                    > > >
                    > > > Here's an article mentioning klemp and the anger nonsense he instills in
                    > people.
                    > > >
                    > http://moosebusiness.com/anger-doesnt-always-need-managing/
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