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An article that mentions klemp

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  • harrisonferrel
    Here s an article mentioning klemp and the anger nonsense he instills in people. http://moosebusiness.com/anger-doesnt-always-need-managing/
    Message 1 of 11 , Nov 10, 2012
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      Here's an article mentioning klemp and the anger nonsense he instills in people.

      http://moosebusiness.com/anger-doesnt-always-need-managing/
    • Janice Pfeiffer
      Thanks for the article.  The truth is Klemp can t conceive that any eckist would feel anger or at least not toward him or eckankar because after all how could
      Message 2 of 11 , Nov 10, 2012
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        Thanks for the article.  The truth is Klemp can't conceive that any eckist would feel anger or at least not toward him or eckankar because after all how could they, since eckankar and the mahanta is the answer for everything in their lives.  In eckankar anger is very wrong and is believed to show a lack of adjustment to the concepts of eckankar.  It means you are not properly brain washed.  While in, I think I felt more bewildered than angry.
         
        Klemp doesn't care that all of us who woke up from our eckankar induced stupor are angry about the lies and deceit because we are now considered unworthy misfits anyway.  If I am remembering right, supposedly, according to eckankar, we are all damned for simply walking away and will have to re-ingratiate ourselves at some point with our present lem.  Perish the thought! 
         
        Fear is what eckankar uses to keep people from guestioning the lem or the operation of the org.  Anger is the opposite of fear.  So therefore, angry eckist would only be those who are ready to get out of eckankar.   Of course that is undesirable in an eckist and  one of the main reasons you aren't allowed to ask questions about why Paul lied and why they continue to lie to get new people in.  I believe when you learn the truth about how eckankar was founded and how it operates, you come to a changing point.  You either become self delusional to stay in or the lies drive you away.
         
        Instead of eckankar admitting that the lies are a problem, they label the ones who are offended by the lies as misfits.  The whole concept is insane in itself for an org that talks so much about spiritual truth.  How can you justify obviously lies and call it spiritual truth?  That is what they do and if you don't buy it, you are of no use to them.  You are not willing to deceive yourself for the sake of eckankar. 
         
        My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so disturbing for you?  Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling?  Can you clarify for yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to you? 
         
        The article speaks of how anger can be a good catalyst for needed change.  I think that is the key to handling it well.  Anger is something normal that we all feel.  To say different would be a lie.  I think when anger is acute, it shows a need to change whatever causes it whether it is a change in self or the external conditions that caused it.  I believe that is what prompted most of us to get out of insane eckankar. 
         
        You are as normal as anyone else with your anger.  I hope you can clarify it and use it for your own good.  You obviously are most intelligent and capable of handling it.
         
        With much high regards from another feeling eckist.  good luck and please be kind to yourself. 

        --- On Sat, 11/10/12, harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...> wrote:

        From: harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...>
        Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] An article that mentions klemp
        To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Saturday, November 10, 2012, 7:26 PM

         
        Here's an article mentioning klemp and the anger nonsense he instills in people.

        http://moosebusiness.com/anger-doesnt-always-need-managing/

      • Non
        Very excellent article on klemp s attempts to vilify natural anger in eckists, those who question and have natural doubts. Often, they are called hateful by
        Message 3 of 11 , Nov 11, 2012
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          Very excellent article on klemp's attempts to vilify natural anger in eckists, those who question and have natural doubts. Often, they are called "hateful" by defensive dogmatic eckists, and shamed in one form or another, usually in a passive/aggressive way, but also in ways that are very directly abusive. The klempster certainly acts like a tyrant and defines eckankar as a hierarchical religion (big "C" Cult").

          Also, let's not forget that the repression or denial of normal angry feelings often leads to depression and self-hate, anger turned inward (rage). It is not in the least a Healthy way to live one's life. For me relief and a way out of that madness, insanity, is to cultivate self-compassion which then has positive affects on relationships, developing empathy and self-actualization, being OK with who you are at whatever stage of life you may be dealing with. Life is hard enough without some SELF-ABSORBED, ARROGANT, GRANDIOSE IDIOT LIVING ECK MASTER FRAUD, telling you about yourself and giving God awful advise. Pity the self-delusonal eckist/eckankarist, who is so afraid to leave the false path and find freedom from tyrants. But don't take any of their guff either.

          Non ; )


          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer <jepfeiffer@...> wrote:
          >
          > Thanks for the article.  The truth is Klemp can't conceive that any eckist would feel anger or at least not toward him or eckankar because after all how could they, since eckankar and the mahanta is the answer for everything in their lives.  In eckankar anger is very wrong and is believed to show a lack of adjustment to the concepts of eckankar.  It means you are not properly brain washed.  While in, I think I felt more bewildered than angry.
          >  
          > Klemp doesn't care that all of us who woke up from our eckankar induced stupor are angry about the lies and deceit because we are now considered unworthy misfits anyway.  If I am remembering right, supposedly, according to eckankar, we are all damned for simply walking away and will have to re-ingratiate ourselves at some point with our present lem.  Perish the thought! 
          >  
          > Fear is what eckankar uses to keep people from guestioning the lem or the operation of the org.  Anger is the opposite of fear.  So therefore, angry eckist would only be those who are ready to get out of eckankar.   Of course that is undesirable in an eckist and  one of the main reasons you aren't allowed to ask questions about why Paul lied and why they continue to lie to get new people in.  I believe when you learn the truth about how eckankar was founded and how it operates, you come to a changing point.  You either become self delusional to stay in or the lies drive you away.
          >  
          > Instead of eckankar admitting that the lies are a problem, they label the ones who are offended by the lies as misfits.  The whole concept is insane in itself for an org that talks so much about spiritual truth.  How can you justify obviously lies and call it spiritual truth?  That is what they do and if you don't buy it, you are of no use to them.  You are not willing to deceive yourself for the sake of eckankar. 
          >  
          > My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so disturbing for you?  Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling?  Can you clarify for yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to you? 
          >  
          > The article speaks of how anger can be a good catalyst for needed change.  I think that is the key to handling it well.  Anger is something normal that we all feel.  To say different would be a lie.  I think when anger is acute, it shows a need to change whatever causes it whether it is a change in self or the external conditions that caused it.  I believe that is what prompted most of us to get out of insane eckankar. 
          >  
          > You are as normal as anyone else with your anger.  I hope you can clarify it and use it for your own good.  You obviously are most intelligent and capable of handling it.
          >  
          > With much high regards from another feeling eckist.  good luck and please be kind to yourself. 
          >
          > --- On Sat, 11/10/12, harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > From: harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...>
          > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] An article that mentions klemp
          > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: Saturday, November 10, 2012, 7:26 PM
          >
          >
          >
          >  
          >
          >
          >
          > Here's an article mentioning klemp and the anger nonsense he instills in people.
          >
          > http://moosebusiness.com/anger-doesnt-always-need-managing/
          >
        • harrisonferrel
          I would have to say that the opposite of fear is a lack of concern or even courage, but not anger. But I would agree that fear is a device used by klemp just
          Message 4 of 11 , Nov 13, 2012
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            I would have to say that the opposite of fear is a lack of concern or even courage, but not anger. But I would agree that fear is a device used by klemp just as it is used by all religions to keep people in line and from challenging the leader.

            Anger isn't a bad thing and I remember hearing from eckists, including klemp and a current family member who is still in the cult, that anger is a weakness. Of course it makes sense that they would say this because it is our innate feeling of anger that drives us to resist the bullshit of the cult and its illogical, improbable and absurd notions.

            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer <jepfeiffer@...> wrote:
            >
            > Thanks for the article.  The truth is Klemp can't conceive that any eckist would feel anger or at least not toward him or eckankar because after all how could they, since eckankar and the mahanta is the answer for everything in their lives.  In eckankar anger is very wrong and is believed to show a lack of adjustment to the concepts of eckankar.  It means you are not properly brain washed.  While in, I think I felt more bewildered than angry.
            >  
            > Klemp doesn't care that all of us who woke up from our eckankar induced stupor are angry about the lies and deceit because we are now considered unworthy misfits anyway.  If I am remembering right, supposedly, according to eckankar, we are all damned for simply walking away and will have to re-ingratiate ourselves at some point with our present lem.  Perish the thought! 
            >  
            > Fear is what eckankar uses to keep people from guestioning the lem or the operation of the org.  Anger is the opposite of fear.  So therefore, angry eckist would only be those who are ready to get out of eckankar.   Of course that is undesirable in an eckist and  one of the main reasons you aren't allowed to ask questions about why Paul lied and why they continue to lie to get new people in.  I believe when you learn the truth about how eckankar was founded and how it operates, you come to a changing point.  You either become self delusional to stay in or the lies drive you away.
            >  
            > Instead of eckankar admitting that the lies are a problem, they label the ones who are offended by the lies as misfits.  The whole concept is insane in itself for an org that talks so much about spiritual truth.  How can you justify obviously lies and call it spiritual truth?  That is what they do and if you don't buy it, you are of no use to them.  You are not willing to deceive yourself for the sake of eckankar. 
            >  
            > My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so disturbing for you?  Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling?  Can you clarify for yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to you? 
            >  
            > The article speaks of how anger can be a good catalyst for needed change.  I think that is the key to handling it well.  Anger is something normal that we all feel.  To say different would be a lie.  I think when anger is acute, it shows a need to change whatever causes it whether it is a change in self or the external conditions that caused it.  I believe that is what prompted most of us to get out of insane eckankar. 
            >  
            > You are as normal as anyone else with your anger.  I hope you can clarify it and use it for your own good.  You obviously are most intelligent and capable of handling it.
            >  
            > With much high regards from another feeling eckist.  good luck and please be kind to yourself. 
            >
            > --- On Sat, 11/10/12, harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > From: harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...>
            > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] An article that mentions klemp
            > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
            > Date: Saturday, November 10, 2012, 7:26 PM
            >
            >
            >
            >  
            >
            >
            >
            > Here's an article mentioning klemp and the anger nonsense he instills in people.
            >
            > http://moosebusiness.com/anger-doesnt-always-need-managing/
            >
          • Janice Pfeiffer
            I guess that what I meant was that once a person recognizes the fear that he has allowed to over come his senses, a natural reaction is to then get angry.  I
            Message 5 of 11 , Nov 13, 2012
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              I guess that what I meant was that once a person recognizes the fear that he has allowed to over come his senses, a natural reaction is to then get angry.  I know I felt very angry for the first few years after I left. 

              --- On Tue, 11/13/12, harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...> wrote:

              From: harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...>
              Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: An article that mentions klemp
              To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Tuesday, November 13, 2012, 8:56 PM

               
              I would have to say that the opposite of fear is a lack of concern or even courage, but not anger. But I would agree that fear is a device used by klemp just as it is used by all religions to keep people in line and from challenging the leader.

              Anger isn't a bad thing and I remember hearing from eckists, including klemp and a current family member who is still in the cult, that anger is a weakness. Of course it makes sense that they would say this because it is our innate feeling of anger that drives us to resist the bullshit of the cult and its illogical, improbable and absurd notions.

              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer <jepfeiffer@...> wrote:
              >
              > Thanks for the article.  The truth is Klemp can't conceive that any eckist would feel anger or at least not toward him or eckankar because after all how could they, since eckankar and the mahanta is the answer for everything in their lives.  In eckankar anger is very wrong and is believed to show a lack of adjustment to the concepts of eckankar.  It means you are not properly brain washed.  While in, I think I felt more bewildered than angry.
              >  
              > Klemp doesn't care that all of us who woke up from our eckankar induced stupor are angry about the lies and deceit because we are now considered unworthy misfits anyway.  If I am remembering right, supposedly, according to eckankar, we are all damned for simply walking away and will have to re-ingratiate ourselves at some point with our present lem.  Perish the thought! 
              >  
              > Fear is what eckankar uses to keep people from guestioning the lem or the operation of the org.  Anger is the opposite of fear.  So therefore, angry eckist would only be those who are ready to get out of eckankar.   Of course that is undesirable in an eckist and  one of the main reasons you aren't allowed to ask questions about why Paul lied and why they continue to lie to get new people in.  I believe when you learn the truth about how eckankar was founded and how it operates, you come to a changing point.  You either become self delusional to stay in or the lies drive you away.
              >  
              > Instead of eckankar admitting that the lies are a problem, they label the ones who are offended by the lies as misfits.  The whole concept is insane in itself for an org that talks so much about spiritual truth.  How can you justify obviously lies and call it spiritual truth?  That is what they do and if you don't buy it, you are of no use to them.  You are not willing to deceive yourself for the sake of eckankar. 
              >  
              > My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so disturbing for you?  Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling?  Can you clarify for yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to you? 
              >  
              > The article speaks of how anger can be a good catalyst for needed change.  I think that is the key to handling it well.  Anger is something normal that we all feel.  To say different would be a lie.  I think when anger is acute, it shows a need to change whatever causes it whether it is a change in self or the external conditions that caused it.  I believe that is what prompted most of us to get out of insane eckankar. 
              >  
              > You are as normal as anyone else with your anger.  I hope you can clarify it and use it for your own good.  You obviously are most intelligent and capable of handling it.
              >  
              > With much high regards from another feeling eckist.  good luck and please be kind to yourself. 
              >
              > --- On Sat, 11/10/12, harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > From: harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...>
              > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] An article that mentions klemp
              > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
              > Date: Saturday, November 10, 2012, 7:26 PM
              >
              >
              >
              >  
              >
              >
              >
              > Here's an article mentioning klemp and the anger nonsense he instills in people.
              >
              > http://moosebusiness.com/anger-doesnt-always-need-managing/
              >

            • Non
              For my few cents worth, whether anger or fear has an opposite is interesting. Lack of anger may be apathy, but it also may be denial and delusion. Repression
              Message 6 of 11 , Nov 14, 2012
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                For my few cents worth, whether anger or fear has an opposite is interesting. Lack of anger may be apathy, but it also may be denial and delusion. Repression of anger may lead to depression and then even fear of all emotions, hence the eck indifference called Love.

                Then again, anger and fear are very closely tied together biologically in the fight/flight response. If this is shut down too much, you just become mush mush, an eck blob borg, or a hypocritical abuser of those lower in initiations. Such is the Way of a False hierarchical RELIGION/CULT eckankar.

                I've been seeing ADS in the Newspaper for eckankar "Worship Services" in the section with all the other Churches, competing and quite a few more New Age "Secret" type religions/Cults. Man, take your pick. eckankar is just worse, in my book because of the godman living eck master crap, which they don't advertise up front and that is just dishonest.

                Non ; )

                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer <jepfeiffer@...> wrote:
                >
                > I guess that what I meant was that once a person recognizes the fear that he has allowed to over come his senses, a natural reaction is to then get angry.  I know I felt very angry for the first few years after I left. 
                >
                > --- On Tue, 11/13/12, harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > From: harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...>
                > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: An article that mentions klemp
                > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                > Date: Tuesday, November 13, 2012, 8:56 PM
                >
                >
                >
                >  
                >
                >
                >
                > I would have to say that the opposite of fear is a lack of concern or even courage, but not anger. But I would agree that fear is a device used by klemp just as it is used by all religions to keep people in line and from challenging the leader.
                >
                > Anger isn't a bad thing and I remember hearing from eckists, including klemp and a current family member who is still in the cult, that anger is a weakness. Of course it makes sense that they would say this because it is our innate feeling of anger that drives us to resist the bullshit of the cult and its illogical, improbable and absurd notions.
                >
                > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer <jepfeiffer@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Thanks for the article.  The truth is Klemp can't conceive that any eckist would feel anger or at least not toward him or eckankar because after all how could they, since eckankar and the mahanta is the answer for everything in their lives.  In eckankar anger is very wrong and is believed to show a lack of adjustment to the concepts of eckankar.  It means you are not properly brain washed.  While in, I think I felt more bewildered than angry.
                > >  
                > > Klemp doesn't care that all of us who woke up from our eckankar induced stupor are angry about the lies and deceit because we are now considered unworthy misfits anyway.  If I am remembering right, supposedly, according to eckankar, we are all damned for simply walking away and will have to re-ingratiate ourselves at some point with our present lem.  Perish the thought! 
                > >  
                > > Fear is what eckankar uses to keep people from guestioning the lem or the operation of the org.  Anger is the opposite of fear.  So therefore, angry eckist would only be those who are ready to get out of eckankar.   Of course that is undesirable in an eckist and  one of the main reasons you aren't allowed to ask questions about why Paul lied and why they continue to lie to get new people in.  I believe when you learn the truth about how eckankar was founded and how it operates, you come to a changing point.  You either become self delusional to stay in or the lies drive you away.
                > >  
                > > Instead of eckankar admitting that the lies are a problem, they label the ones who are offended by the lies as misfits.  The whole concept is insane in itself for an org that talks so much about spiritual truth.  How can you justify obviously lies and call it spiritual truth?  That is what they do and if you don't buy it, you are of no use to them.  You are not willing to deceive yourself for the sake of eckankar. 
                > >  
                > > My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so disturbing for you?  Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling?  Can you clarify for yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to you? 
                > >  
                > > The article speaks of how anger can be a good catalyst for needed change.  I think that is the key to handling it well.  Anger is something normal that we all feel.  To say different would be a lie.  I think when anger is acute, it shows a need to change whatever causes it whether it is a change in self or the external conditions that caused it.  I believe that is what prompted most of us to get out of insane eckankar. 
                > >  
                > > You are as normal as anyone else with your anger.  I hope you can clarify it and use it for your own good.  You obviously are most intelligent and capable of handling it.
                > >  
                > > With much high regards from another feeling eckist.  good luck and please be kind to yourself. 
                > >
                > > --- On Sat, 11/10/12, harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@> wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > > From: harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@>
                > > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] An article that mentions klemp
                > > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                > > Date: Saturday, November 10, 2012, 7:26 PM
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >  
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Here's an article mentioning klemp and the anger nonsense he instills in people.
                > >
                > > http://moosebusiness.com/anger-doesnt-always-need-managing/
                > >
                >
              • Russ Rodnick
                our innate feeling of anger that drives us to resist the bullshit of the cult and its illogical, improbable and absurd notions   This may be your experience
                Message 7 of 11 , Nov 14, 2012
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                  our innate feeling of anger that drives us to resist the bullshit of the cult and its illogical, improbable and absurd notions
                   
                  This may be your experience but it isn't mine. All this is is justification of anger as if anger is the best we have. It's about survival, when threatened we either succumb or fight back. It's instinct and necessary but to continue to be angry after the threat is gone is not in my opinion a healthy place. But it's a choice. Anger may have gotten you out of Eckankar but for me it was just that I couldn't justify the contradictions anymore and why should I?
                   
                  The reality of the higher planes is real; so thanks to Eckankar for the cosmology because it gave me a better picture of reality. (I know, they plaigarized the cosmology) but this is where I really go it. I parted ways with them over the whole "Mahanta, the LEM" thing.
                   
                  I still say, whatever gets you through the night. I found that I don't need to have my hand held, so to speak. But anger? Nah, I reject that, beyond the situation where I said shove it.
                   
                  It burns if you keep manifesting it and becomes your chronic state. At least this is MY experience.
                   
                  Russ

                  From: harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...>
                  To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 2:56 PM
                  Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: An article that mentions klemp
                   
                  I would have to say that the opposite of fear is a lack of concern or even courage, but not anger. But I would agree that fear is a device used by klemp just as it is used by all religions to keep people in line and from challenging the leader.

                  Anger isn't a bad thing and I remember hearing from eckists, including klemp and a current family member who is still in the cult, that anger is a weakness. Of course it makes sense that they would say this because it is our innate feeling of anger that drives us to resist the bullshit of the cult and its illogical, improbable and absurd notions.

                  --- In mailto:EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous%40yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer <jepfeiffer@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Thanks for the article.  The truth is Klemp can't conceive that any eckist would feel anger or at least not toward him or eckankar because after all how could they, since eckankar and the mahanta is the answer for everything in their lives.  In eckankar anger is very wrong and is believed to show a lack of adjustment to the concepts of eckankar.  It means you are not properly brain washed.  While in, I think I felt more bewildered than angry.
                  >  
                  > Klemp doesn't care that all of us who woke up from our eckankar induced stupor are angry about the lies and deceit because we are now considered unworthy misfits anyway.  If I am remembering right, supposedly, according to eckankar, we are all damned for simply walking away and will have to re-ingratiate ourselves at some point with our present lem.  Perish the thought! 
                  >  
                  > Fear is what eckankar uses to keep people from guestioning the lem or the operation of the org.  Anger is the opposite of fear.  So therefore, angry eckist would only be those who are ready to get out of eckankar.   Of course that is undesirable in an eckist and  one of the main reasons you aren't allowed to ask questions about why Paul lied and why they continue to lie to get new people in.  I believe when you learn the truth about how eckankar was founded and how it operates, you come to a changing point.  You either become self delusional to stay in or the lies drive you away.
                  >  
                  > Instead of eckankar admitting that the lies are a problem, they label the ones who are offended by the lies as misfits.  The whole concept is insane in itself for an org that talks so much about spiritual truth.  How can you justify obviously lies and call it spiritual truth?  That is what they do and if you don't buy it, you are of no use to them.  You are not willing to deceive yourself for the sake of eckankar. 
                  >  
                  > My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so disturbing for you?  Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling?  Can you clarify for yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to you? 
                  >  
                  > The article speaks of how anger can be a good catalyst for needed change.  I think that is the key to handling it well.  Anger is something normal that we all feel.  To say different would be a lie.  I think when anger is acute, it shows a need to change whatever causes it whether it is a change in self or the external conditions that caused it.  I believe that is what prompted most of us to get out of insane eckankar. 
                  >  
                  > You are as normal as anyone else with your anger.  I hope you can clarify it and use it for your own good.  You obviously are most intelligent and capable of handling it.
                  >  
                  > With much high regards from another feeling eckist.  good luck and please be kind to yourself. 
                  >
                  > --- On Sat, 11/10/12, harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > From: harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...>
                  > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] An article that mentions klemp
                  > To: mailto:EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous%40yahoogroups.com
                  > Date: Saturday, November 10, 2012, 7:26 PM
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >  
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Here's an article mentioning klemp and the anger nonsense he instills in people.
                  >
                  > http://moosebusiness.com/anger-doesnt-always-need-managing/
                  >

                • harrisonferrel
                  Your question: My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so disturbing for you? Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling? Can you
                  Message 8 of 11 , Dec 10, 2012
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                    Your question: "My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so disturbing for you? Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling? Can you clarify for yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to you? "


                    ANSWER: Through Eckankar I've met a number of people who talked about anger being an evil of sorts. This is a common thread among cults — to call someone angry. The idea is basically to keep people from getting angry at the nonsense you're peddling. Klemp and Twitchell talked about the evils of anger. The problem of course is that anger is a tool that any normal mind has; it motivates people to stand up for themselves and to oppose groups like eckankar that are trying to get away with injuring people.



                    --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "harrisonferrel" <harrisonferrel@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I would have to say that the opposite of fear is a lack of concern or even courage, but not anger. But I would agree that fear is a device used by klemp just as it is used by all religions to keep people in line and from challenging the leader.
                    >
                    > Anger isn't a bad thing and I remember hearing from eckists, including klemp and a current family member who is still in the cult, that anger is a weakness. Of course it makes sense that they would say this because it is our innate feeling of anger that drives us to resist the bullshit of the cult and its illogical, improbable and absurd notions.
                    >
                    > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer <jepfeiffer@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Thanks for the article.  The truth is Klemp can't conceive that any eckist would feel anger or at least not toward him or eckankar because after all how could they, since eckankar and the mahanta is the answer for everything in their lives.  In eckankar anger is very wrong and is believed to show a lack of adjustment to the concepts of eckankar.  It means you are not properly brain washed.  While in, I think I felt more bewildered than angry.
                    > >  
                    > > Klemp doesn't care that all of us who woke up from our eckankar induced stupor are angry about the lies and deceit because we are now considered unworthy misfits anyway.  If I am remembering right, supposedly, according to eckankar, we are all damned for simply walking away and will have to re-ingratiate ourselves at some point with our present lem.  Perish the thought! 
                    > >  
                    > > Fear is what eckankar uses to keep people from guestioning the lem or the operation of the org.  Anger is the opposite of fear.  So therefore, angry eckist would only be those who are ready to get out of eckankar.   Of course that is undesirable in an eckist and  one of the main reasons you aren't allowed to ask questions about why Paul lied and why they continue to lie to get new people in.  I believe when you learn the truth about how eckankar was founded and how it operates, you come to a changing point.  You either become self delusional to stay in or the lies drive you away.
                    > >  
                    > > Instead of eckankar admitting that the lies are a problem, they label the ones who are offended by the lies as misfits.  The whole concept is insane in itself for an org that talks so much about spiritual truth.  How can you justify obviously lies and call it spiritual truth?  That is what they do and if you don't buy it, you are of no use to them.  You are not willing to deceive yourself for the sake of eckankar. 
                    > >  
                    > > My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so disturbing for you?  Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling?  Can you clarify for yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to you? 
                    > >  
                    > > The article speaks of how anger can be a good catalyst for needed change.  I think that is the key to handling it well.  Anger is something normal that we all feel.  To say different would be a lie.  I think when anger is acute, it shows a need to change whatever causes it whether it is a change in self or the external conditions that caused it.  I believe that is what prompted most of us to get out of insane eckankar. 
                    > >  
                    > > You are as normal as anyone else with your anger.  I hope you can clarify it and use it for your own good.  You obviously are most intelligent and capable of handling it.
                    > >  
                    > > With much high regards from another feeling eckist.  good luck and please be kind to yourself. 
                    > >
                    > > --- On Sat, 11/10/12, harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > From: harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@>
                    > > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] An article that mentions klemp
                    > > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Date: Saturday, November 10, 2012, 7:26 PM
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >  
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Here's an article mentioning klemp and the anger nonsense he instills in people.
                    > >
                    > > http://moosebusiness.com/anger-doesnt-always-need-managing/
                    > >
                    >
                  • prometheus_973
                    Hello Harrison and All, Most Eck H.I.s are as two-faced as Klemp. One face is shown when in public and the other face is shown when doing EK business. I ve
                    Message 9 of 11 , Dec 10, 2012
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                      Hello Harrison and All,
                      Most Eck H.I.s are as
                      two-faced as Klemp.
                      One face is shown when
                      in public and the other
                      face is shown when
                      doing EK business.

                      I've angered other
                      H.I.s so much (regarding
                      EK business) that
                      they've hung up on
                      me! One was a RESA!
                      I was the one frustrated
                      with getting people
                      (H.I.s) attuned to the
                      programs or positions
                      they had signed up
                      for. The business side
                      of Eckankar was very
                      stressful, not fun, and
                      was very unrewarding.

                      So, being nice, for
                      many H.I.s, is all an
                      act. And most times
                      the business side of
                      Eckankar brings it out.
                      Their angry and negative
                      tendencies are merely
                      denied, hidden, and
                      swept under the rug
                      "as if" it doesn't exist.
                      Just put on a happy face!

                      However, the biggest
                      EK excuse is that the
                      anger was "mocked up"
                      in order to express
                      a point or to better
                      communicate with
                      someone on a lower
                      level of consciousness.
                      I'm sure you wouldn't
                      be surprised to know
                      how often this excuse
                      is used.

                      Twitchell was good
                      at making up excuses
                      when questioned about
                      contradictions of non-
                      spiritual behaviour of
                      his H.I.s such as anger.
                      But, Twitchell was an
                      expert liar, manipulator,
                      and conman. He had
                      to cover-up his own
                      hypocrisy (as does Klemp)
                      and that of his long-time
                      followers with convincing
                      rationalizations. EKists
                      merely pretend, dream,
                      deny the truth, and play
                      the game of follow-the-
                      leader.

                      Prometheus

                      harrisonferrel wrote:
                      Your question: "My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so
                      disturbing for you? Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling? Can you
                      clarify for yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to
                      you? "


                      ANSWER: Through Eckankar I've met a number of people who talked about anger
                      being an evil of sorts. This is a common thread among cults — to call someone
                      angry. The idea is basically to keep people from getting angry at the nonsense
                      you're peddling. Klemp and Twitchell talked about the evils of anger. The
                      problem of course is that anger is a tool that any normal mind has; it motivates
                      people to stand up for themselves and to oppose groups like eckankar that are
                      trying to get away with injuring people.




                      <harrisonferrel wrote:
                      >
                      > I would have to say that the opposite of fear is a lack of concern or even
                      courage, but not anger. But I would agree that fear is a device used by klemp
                      just as it is used by all religions to keep people in line and from challenging
                      the leader.
                      >
                      > Anger isn't a bad thing and I remember hearing from eckists, including klemp
                      and a current family member who is still in the cult, that anger is a weakness.
                      Of course it makes sense that they would say this because it is our innate
                      feeling of anger that drives us to resist the bullshit of the cult and its
                      illogical, improbable and absurd notions.
                      >
                      Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Thanks for the article. The truth is Klemp can't conceive that any eckist
                      would feel anger or at least not toward him or eckankar because after all how
                      could they, since eckankar and the mahanta is the answer for everything in their
                      lives. In eckankar anger is very wrong and is believed to show a lack of
                      adjustment to the concepts of eckankar. It means you are not properly brain
                      washed. While in, I think I felt more bewildered than angry.
                      > >
                      > > Klemp doesn't care that all of us who woke up from our eckankar induced
                      stupor are angry about the lies and deceit because we are now considered
                      unworthy misfits anyway. If I am remembering right, supposedly, according to
                      eckankar, we are all damned for simply walking away and will have to
                      re-ingratiate ourselves at some point with our present lem. Perish the
                      thought!
                      > >
                      > > Fear is what eckankar uses to keep people from guestioning the lem or the
                      operation of the org. Anger is the opposite of fear. So therefore, angry
                      eckist would only be those who are ready to get out of eckankar. Of course
                      that is undesirable in an eckist and one of the main reasons you aren't
                      allowed to ask questions about why Paul lied and why they continue to lie to get
                      new people in. I believe when you learn the truth about how eckankar was
                      founded and how it operates, you come to a changing point. You either become
                      self delusional to stay in or the lies drive you away.
                      > >
                      > > Instead of eckankar admitting that the lies are a problem, they label the
                      ones who are offended by the lies as misfits. The whole concept is insane in
                      itself for an org that talks so much about spiritual truth. How can you
                      justify obviously lies and call it spiritual truth? That is what they do and
                      if you don't buy it, you are of no use to them. You are not willing to deceive
                      yourself for the sake of eckankar.
                      > >
                      > > My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so disturbing for
                      you? Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling? Can you clarify for
                      yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to you?
                      > >
                      > > The article speaks of how anger can be a good catalyst for needed change.
                      I think that is the key to handling it well. Anger is something normal that we
                      all feel. To say different would be a lie. I think when anger is acute, it
                      shows a need to change whatever causes it whether it is a change in self or the
                      external conditions that caused it. I believe that is what prompted most of us
                      to get out of insane eckankar.
                      > >
                      > > You are as normal as anyone else with your anger. I hope you can clarify
                      it and use it for your own good. You obviously are most intelligent and
                      capable of handling it.
                      > >
                      > > With much high regards from another feeling eckist. good luck and please
                      be kind to yourself.
                      > >
                      harrisonferrel wrote:
                      > >

                      > >
                      > > Here's an article mentioning klemp and the anger nonsense he instills in
                      people.
                      > >
                      http://moosebusiness.com/anger-doesnt-always-need-managing/
                    • postekcon
                      I consider anger to be one of the most important human traits, and one which separates us from the animal kingdom. Most folks are afraid of anger. They think
                      Message 10 of 11 , Dec 10, 2012
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                        I consider 'anger' to be one of the most important human traits, and one which separates us from the animal kingdom. Most folks are afraid of anger. They think it just means hollering at your neighbor or life etc. But on a scale of one to ten, that's at the high end.

                        Without anger, the human race would behave in zombie fashion, there would be no enterprise, no advancement, no athletes etc., no betterment in anything at all. I am not a medical person, but I know there there is a link between adrenaline and anger. The rising of adrenaline is linked to survival and 'get-up-and-go'. In humans anger is a natural emotional response which directly triggers adrenaline. I believe that without adrenaline there would be no human action for change or betterment etc.

                        This is why in ekult 'anger' is incorrectly portrayed as an evil passion of the mind, and so much attention is put upon its natural suppression. Ekult's objective is to have passive zombie followers - and it works!
                        -Postekcon


                        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hello Harrison and All,
                        > Most Eck H.I.s are as
                        > two-faced as Klemp.
                        > One face is shown when
                        > in public and the other
                        > face is shown when
                        > doing EK business.
                        >
                        > I've angered other
                        > H.I.s so much (regarding
                        > EK business) that
                        > they've hung up on
                        > me! One was a RESA!
                        > I was the one frustrated
                        > with getting people
                        > (H.I.s) attuned to the
                        > programs or positions
                        > they had signed up
                        > for. The business side
                        > of Eckankar was very
                        > stressful, not fun, and
                        > was very unrewarding.
                        >
                        > So, being nice, for
                        > many H.I.s, is all an
                        > act. And most times
                        > the business side of
                        > Eckankar brings it out.
                        > Their angry and negative
                        > tendencies are merely
                        > denied, hidden, and
                        > swept under the rug
                        > "as if" it doesn't exist.
                        > Just put on a happy face!
                        >
                        > However, the biggest
                        > EK excuse is that the
                        > anger was "mocked up"
                        > in order to express
                        > a point or to better
                        > communicate with
                        > someone on a lower
                        > level of consciousness.
                        > I'm sure you wouldn't
                        > be surprised to know
                        > how often this excuse
                        > is used.
                        >
                        > Twitchell was good
                        > at making up excuses
                        > when questioned about
                        > contradictions of non-
                        > spiritual behaviour of
                        > his H.I.s such as anger.
                        > But, Twitchell was an
                        > expert liar, manipulator,
                        > and conman. He had
                        > to cover-up his own
                        > hypocrisy (as does Klemp)
                        > and that of his long-time
                        > followers with convincing
                        > rationalizations. EKists
                        > merely pretend, dream,
                        > deny the truth, and play
                        > the game of follow-the-
                        > leader.
                        >
                        > Prometheus
                        >
                        > harrisonferrel wrote:
                        > Your question: "My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so
                        > disturbing for you? Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling? Can you
                        > clarify for yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to
                        > you? "
                        >
                        >
                        > ANSWER: Through Eckankar I've met a number of people who talked about anger
                        > being an evil of sorts. This is a common thread among cults — to call someone
                        > angry. The idea is basically to keep people from getting angry at the nonsense
                        > you're peddling. Klemp and Twitchell talked about the evils of anger. The
                        > problem of course is that anger is a tool that any normal mind has; it motivates
                        > people to stand up for themselves and to oppose groups like eckankar that are
                        > trying to get away with injuring people.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > <harrisonferrel wrote:
                        > >
                        > > I would have to say that the opposite of fear is a lack of concern or even
                        > courage, but not anger. But I would agree that fear is a device used by klemp
                        > just as it is used by all religions to keep people in line and from challenging
                        > the leader.
                        > >
                        > > Anger isn't a bad thing and I remember hearing from eckists, including klemp
                        > and a current family member who is still in the cult, that anger is a weakness.
                        > Of course it makes sense that they would say this because it is our innate
                        > feeling of anger that drives us to resist the bullshit of the cult and its
                        > illogical, improbable and absurd notions.
                        > >
                        > Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Thanks for the article. The truth is Klemp can't conceive that any eckist
                        > would feel anger or at least not toward him or eckankar because after all how
                        > could they, since eckankar and the mahanta is the answer for everything in their
                        > lives. In eckankar anger is very wrong and is believed to show a lack of
                        > adjustment to the concepts of eckankar. It means you are not properly brain
                        > washed. While in, I think I felt more bewildered than angry.
                        > > >
                        > > > Klemp doesn't care that all of us who woke up from our eckankar induced
                        > stupor are angry about the lies and deceit because we are now considered
                        > unworthy misfits anyway. If I am remembering right, supposedly, according to
                        > eckankar, we are all damned for simply walking away and will have to
                        > re-ingratiate ourselves at some point with our present lem. Perish the
                        > thought!
                        > > >
                        > > > Fear is what eckankar uses to keep people from guestioning the lem or the
                        > operation of the org. Anger is the opposite of fear. So therefore, angry
                        > eckist would only be those who are ready to get out of eckankar. Of course
                        > that is undesirable in an eckist and one of the main reasons you aren't
                        > allowed to ask questions about why Paul lied and why they continue to lie to get
                        > new people in. I believe when you learn the truth about how eckankar was
                        > founded and how it operates, you come to a changing point. You either become
                        > self delusional to stay in or the lies drive you away.
                        > > >
                        > > > Instead of eckankar admitting that the lies are a problem, they label the
                        > ones who are offended by the lies as misfits. The whole concept is insane in
                        > itself for an org that talks so much about spiritual truth. How can you
                        > justify obviously lies and call it spiritual truth? That is what they do and
                        > if you don't buy it, you are of no use to them. You are not willing to deceive
                        > yourself for the sake of eckankar.
                        > > >
                        > > > My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so disturbing for
                        > you? Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling? Can you clarify for
                        > yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to you?
                        > > >
                        > > > The article speaks of how anger can be a good catalyst for needed change.
                        > I think that is the key to handling it well. Anger is something normal that we
                        > all feel. To say different would be a lie. I think when anger is acute, it
                        > shows a need to change whatever causes it whether it is a change in self or the
                        > external conditions that caused it. I believe that is what prompted most of us
                        > to get out of insane eckankar.
                        > > >
                        > > > You are as normal as anyone else with your anger. I hope you can clarify
                        > it and use it for your own good. You obviously are most intelligent and
                        > capable of handling it.
                        > > >
                        > > > With much high regards from another feeling eckist. good luck and please
                        > be kind to yourself.
                        > > >
                        > harrisonferrel wrote:
                        > > >
                        >
                        > > >
                        > > > Here's an article mentioning klemp and the anger nonsense he instills in
                        > people.
                        > > >
                        > http://moosebusiness.com/anger-doesnt-always-need-managing/
                        >
                      • prometheus_973
                        Hello Postekcon and All, I agree that anger is natural, and normal for humans to express and to feel. Controlling it is important, however, Eckankar is all
                        Message 11 of 11 , Dec 10, 2012
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                          Hello Postekcon and All,
                          I agree that anger is natural,
                          and normal for humans
                          to express and to feel.
                          Controlling it is important,
                          however, Eckankar is all
                          about over control while
                          denying feelings (emotions)
                          and expressing them because
                          these are of the Astral (2nd)
                          Plane and that's bad. ECKists
                          pretend they're not of
                          the earth (physical) Plane.

                          [How does that work with
                          DNA and ancestry? Just
                          ignore it right! I'll bet the
                          EKists that get caught up
                          with the ancestry thing
                          don't get promoted if the
                          RESA's spys hear about it
                          and squeal on them. Soul
                          has no DNA or ancestry
                          that can be traced but
                          through dreams, correct?
                          And, Soul is neither male
                          or female too, right?]

                          Eckists need to believe
                          that they're higher and
                          more spiritually advanced
                          than all others, but fail
                          to realize that this is the
                          same lie that all other
                          religions tell their members.
                          It's a trap for the ego.
                          ECKists even have a scale
                          with their so-called 'level"
                          number printed upon
                          a membership card that
                          they paid for. That means
                          it's all real and these guys
                          are truly spiritual giants
                          and highly evolved Souls.
                          It's in print for God's sake!

                          Honestly, would these
                          nice and friendly EK people
                          lie about all of this stuff?
                          Klemp does that's for sure!
                          Or, are these EKists as
                          deluded as many Christians
                          are and actually believe
                          this crap? YES! ECKists are
                          just as gullible and deluded
                          with faith and belief as
                          are Christians, Jews, Muslims,
                          Mormons, Scientologists,
                          etc.

                          Prometheus


                          postekcon wrote:
                          I consider 'anger' to be one of the most important human traits, and one which
                          separates us from the animal kingdom. Most folks are afraid of anger. They think
                          it just means hollering at your neighbor or life etc. But on a scale of one to
                          ten, that's at the high end.

                          Without anger, the human race would behave in zombie fashion, there would be no
                          enterprise, no advancement, no athletes etc., no betterment in anything at all.
                          I am not a medical person, but I know there there is a link between adrenaline
                          and anger. The rising of adrenaline is linked to survival and 'get-up-and-go'.
                          In humans anger is a natural emotional response which directly triggers
                          adrenaline. I believe that without adrenaline there would be no human action for
                          change or betterment etc.

                          This is why in ekult 'anger' is incorrectly portrayed as an evil passion of the
                          mind, and so much attention is put upon its natural suppression. Ekult's
                          objective is to have passive zombie followers - and it works!
                          -Postekcon


                          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                          <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Hello Harrison and All,
                          > Most Eck H.I.s are as
                          > two-faced as Klemp.
                          > One face is shown when
                          > in public and the other
                          > face is shown when
                          > doing EK business.
                          >
                          > I've angered other
                          > H.I.s so much (regarding
                          > EK business) that
                          > they've hung up on
                          > me! One was a RESA!
                          > I was the one frustrated
                          > with getting people
                          > (H.I.s) attuned to the
                          > programs or positions
                          > they had signed up
                          > for. The business side
                          > of Eckankar was very
                          > stressful, not fun, and
                          > was very unrewarding.
                          >
                          > So, being nice, for
                          > many H.I.s, is all an
                          > act. And most times
                          > the business side of
                          > Eckankar brings it out.
                          > Their angry and negative
                          > tendencies are merely
                          > denied, hidden, and
                          > swept under the rug
                          > "as if" it doesn't exist.
                          > Just put on a happy face!
                          >
                          > However, the biggest
                          > EK excuse is that the
                          > anger was "mocked up"
                          > in order to express
                          > a point or to better
                          > communicate with
                          > someone on a lower
                          > level of consciousness.
                          > I'm sure you wouldn't
                          > be surprised to know
                          > how often this excuse
                          > is used.
                          >
                          > Twitchell was good
                          > at making up excuses
                          > when questioned about
                          > contradictions of non-
                          > spiritual behaviour of
                          > his H.I.s such as anger.
                          > But, Twitchell was an
                          > expert liar, manipulator,
                          > and conman. He had
                          > to cover-up his own
                          > hypocrisy (as does Klemp)
                          > and that of his long-time
                          > followers with convincing
                          > rationalizations. EKists
                          > merely pretend, dream,
                          > deny the truth, and play
                          > the game of follow-the-
                          > leader.
                          >
                          > Prometheus
                          >
                          > harrisonferrel wrote:
                          > Your question: "My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so
                          > disturbing for you? Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling? Can you
                          > clarify for yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to
                          > you? "
                          >
                          >
                          > ANSWER: Through Eckankar I've met a number of people who talked about anger
                          > being an evil of sorts. This is a common thread among cults — to call someone
                          > angry. The idea is basically to keep people from getting angry at the nonsense
                          > you're peddling. Klemp and Twitchell talked about the evils of anger. The
                          > problem of course is that anger is a tool that any normal mind has; it
                          motivates
                          > people to stand up for themselves and to oppose groups like eckankar that are
                          > trying to get away with injuring people.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > <harrisonferrel wrote:
                          > >
                          > > I would have to say that the opposite of fear is a lack of concern or even
                          > courage, but not anger. But I would agree that fear is a device used by klemp
                          > just as it is used by all religions to keep people in line and from
                          challenging
                          > the leader.
                          > >
                          > > Anger isn't a bad thing and I remember hearing from eckists, including klemp
                          > and a current family member who is still in the cult, that anger is a
                          weakness.
                          > Of course it makes sense that they would say this because it is our innate
                          > feeling of anger that drives us to resist the bullshit of the cult and its
                          > illogical, improbable and absurd notions.
                          > >
                          > Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Thanks for the article. The truth is Klemp can't conceive that any eckist
                          > would feel anger or at least not toward him or eckankar because after all how
                          > could they, since eckankar and the mahanta is the answer for everything in
                          their
                          > lives. In eckankar anger is very wrong and is believed to show a lack of
                          > adjustment to the concepts of eckankar. It means you are not properly brain
                          > washed. While in, I think I felt more bewildered than angry.
                          > > >
                          > > > Klemp doesn't care that all of us who woke up from our eckankar induced
                          > stupor are angry about the lies and deceit because we are now considered
                          > unworthy misfits anyway. If I am remembering right, supposedly, according to
                          > eckankar, we are all damned for simply walking away and will have to
                          > re-ingratiate ourselves at some point with our present lem. Perish the
                          > thought!
                          > > >
                          > > > Fear is what eckankar uses to keep people from guestioning the lem or the
                          > operation of the org. Anger is the opposite of fear. So therefore, angry
                          > eckist would only be those who are ready to get out of eckankar. Of course
                          > that is undesirable in an eckist and one of the main reasons you aren't
                          > allowed to ask questions about why Paul lied and why they continue to lie to
                          get
                          > new people in. I believe when you learn the truth about how eckankar was
                          > founded and how it operates, you come to a changing point. You either become
                          > self delusional to stay in or the lies drive you away.
                          > > >
                          > > > Instead of eckankar admitting that the lies are a problem, they label the
                          > ones who are offended by the lies as misfits. The whole concept is insane in
                          > itself for an org that talks so much about spiritual truth. How can you
                          > justify obviously lies and call it spiritual truth? That is what they do and
                          > if you don't buy it, you are of no use to them. You are not willing to
                          deceive
                          > yourself for the sake of eckankar.
                          > > >
                          > > > My only question for you is why is the subject of anger so disturbing for
                          > you? Are you uncomfortable with what you are feeling? Can you clarify for
                          > yourself why you are angry or what the concept of anger means to you?
                          > > >
                          > > > The article speaks of how anger can be a good catalyst for needed change.
                          > I think that is the key to handling it well. Anger is something normal that
                          we
                          > all feel. To say different would be a lie. I think when anger is acute, it
                          > shows a need to change whatever causes it whether it is a change in self or
                          the
                          > external conditions that caused it. I believe that is what prompted most of
                          us
                          > to get out of insane eckankar.
                          > > >
                          > > > You are as normal as anyone else with your anger. I hope you can clarify
                          > it and use it for your own good. You obviously are most intelligent and
                          > capable of handling it.
                          > > >
                          > > > With much high regards from another feeling eckist. good luck and please
                          > be kind to yourself.
                          > > >
                          > harrisonferrel wrote:
                          > > >
                          >
                          > > >
                          > > > Here's an article mentioning klemp and the anger nonsense he instills in
                          > people.
                          > > >
                          > http://moosebusiness.com/anger-doesnt-always-need-managing/
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