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Re: Attachment vs. Detachment

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  • jjamie1977
    ... thanks so much, mish. this is exactly the info i needed. i ve tried and tried to find a copy (even an e copy) of in the many hands of god . no luck
    Message 1 of 9 , Oct 1, 2005
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      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
      <mishmisha9@y...> wrote:
      > Okay, here's a thought/question. In analyzing and considering what HK
      > has written in his latest Wisdom Note (LOL), do you think he has
      > exhibited attachment or detachment in the way he treats eckists and
      > or former eckists who have gone astray of the eck teachings? Does
      > HK's actions and words demonstrate the Five Passions of the Mind or
      > the Five Virtues?
      >
      > Mish
      >
      > p.s. to Jamie: Graham Forsythe has posted on TruthSeeker, HCS,
      > Eckankar Truth and A.R.E. as FS, Graham or Graham Forsythe. He's easy
      > to find on those sites. I'm not sure of other places he has posted or
      > pseudonyms he uses. Hope this helps.

      --------------------------------------------------
      thanks so much, mish. this is exactly the info i needed. i've tried and
      tried to find a copy (even an e copy) of "in the many hands of god". no
      luck whatsoever.

      jamie...
      ----------------------------------------
    • l2eigh
      Hi Prometheus: The passions and virtues are one of the reasons why Eckankar fails. It s all pillar or post with no moderation. The Five Wisdoms on the other
      Message 2 of 9 , Oct 1, 2005
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        Hi Prometheus:
        The passions and virtues are one of the reasons why
        Eckankar fails. It's all pillar or post with no moderation. The Five
        Wisdoms on the other hand are moderation and they do work.
        The Five wisdoms are; the Wisdom that like a mirror
        reflects perceptions, the Wisdom acquired by Contemplation, which
        apprehends the fundamental identity in all things, the Wisdom that
        discerns, differentiates and classifies things according to their
        particular properties, the Wisdom applied to works, assuring their
        success, the universal Wisdom which penetrates everything, detects
        the elements of which things are formed, and then the elements which
        constitute each of those first detected elements, and so ad
        infinitum, and by the virtue of this process destroys the illusion of
        the permanent reality of form and personality.

        If you can't pick up on them anywhere else, you can
        find these in the novel Mipam by Lama Yongden, published in 1938. Now
        in reprint by Shambala, I think.
        Lama Yongden was an interesting guy, and the "adopted
        son" of Alexandra David-Neel. *Quite* an interesting woman.

        Leigh

        -- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
        <prometheus_973@y...> wrote:
        > Hello All,
        >
        > I thought that I would point out the differences between the
        > Radasoami/Sant Mat version and the Eckankar version.
        >
        > Page 362 Passions and their Remedies (Virtures):
        >
        >
        > KAMð )...*[Shil]...Chastity, continence
        >
        > KRODH(ANGER)...[Kshama]...Forgiveness, tolerance
        >
        > LOBH(GREED)...[Santosha]...Contentment
        >
        > MOH(ATTACHMENT)...*[Viveka]...Discrimination AND
        > [Vairag]...Detachment
        >
        > AHANKAR (EGO; PRIDE)...[Dinta]...Humility
        >
        > **************************************************************
        > Page 73 Eckankar Lexicon
        > The Five Passions of the Mind...The Five Virtures:
        >
        >
        > KAMAð )...*[VIVEKA]...DISCRIMINATION
        >
        > KRODHA(ANGER)...[KSHAMA]...forgiveness, tolerance
        >
        > LOBHA(GREED)...[SANTOSHA]...contentment
        >
        > MOHA(ATTACHMENT)...[VAIRAG]...DETACHMENT
        >
        > AHANKARA(VANITY)...[DINTA]...HUMILITY
        >
        > **************************************************************
        > So, Twitchell changed the Virtue for ! He took the first remedy
        > (of two) listed for Attachment, [Viveka] Discrimination,
        from "Path"
        > and switched it with the remedy or virture of *[Shil] Chastity and
        > continence!
        >
        > This is why Eckists find it so difficult to recall and match up the
        > Five Passions to the Five Virtues! But, isn't it also strange that
        > the negative passions are recalled easier than the positive
        virtures!
        >
        > One can also see where Twitchell added the letter "A" to the Hindi
        > words for the passions, but kept the Hindi words for the virtues.
        >
        > Prometheus
      • prometheus_973
        Hi Leigh, Thanks for posting the Five Wisdoms and their source. They are very interesting and insightful! Prometheus ... The passions and virtues are one of
        Message 3 of 9 , Oct 1, 2005
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          Hi Leigh,
          Thanks for posting the Five Wisdoms and their source. They are very
          interesting and insightful!

          Prometheus

          lgrif wrote:
          > Hi Prometheus:
          The passions and virtues are one of the reasons why
          Eckankar fails. It's all pillar or post with no moderation. The Five
          Wisdoms on the other hand are moderation and they do work.

          The Five wisdoms are;

          the Wisdom that like a mirror reflects perceptions,

          the Wisdom acquired by Contemplation, which apprehends the
          fundamental identity in all things,

          the Wisdom that discerns, differentiates and classifies things
          according to their particular properties,

          the Wisdom applied to works, assuring their success,

          the universal Wisdom which penetrates everything, detects the
          elements of which things are formed,

          and then the elements which constitute each of those first detected
          elements, and so ad infinitum, and by the virtue of this process
          destroys the illusion of the permanent reality of form and
          personality.

          If you can't pick up on them anywhere else, you can find these in
          the novel Mipam by Lama Yongden, published in 1938. Now in reprint
          by Shambala, I think. Lama Yongden was an interesting guy, and
          the "adopted son" of Alexandra David-Neel. *Quite* an interesting
          woman.

          Leigh
          >
          > -- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
          > <prometheus_973@y...> wrote:
          > > Hello All,
          > >
          > > I thought that I would point out the differences between the
          > > Radasoami/Sant Mat version and the Eckankar version.

          > >The Path of the Masters by Julian P. Johnson
          > >Page 362 Passions and their Remedies (Virtures):
          > >
          > >
          > > KAM (LUST)...*[Shil]...Chastity, continence
          > >
          > > KRODH (ANGER)...[Kshama]...Forgiveness, tolerance
          > >
          > > LOBH (GREED)...[Santosha]...Contentment
          > >
          > > MOH (ATTACHMENT)...*[Viveka]...Discrimination AND
          > > [Vairag]...Detachment
          > >
          > > AHANKAR (EGO; PRIDE)...[Dinta]...Humility
          > >
          > > **************************************************************
          > > Page 73 Eckankar Lexicon
          > > The Five Passions of the Mind...The Five Virtures:
          > >
          > >
          > > KAMA (LUST)...*[VIVEKA]...DISCRIMINATION
          > >
          > > KRODHA (ANGER)...[KSHAMA]...forgiveness, tolerance
          > >
          > > LOBHA (GREED)...[SANTOSHA]...contentment
          > >
          > > MOHA (ATTACHMENT)...[VAIRAG]...DETACHMENT
          > >
          > > AHANKARA (VANITY)...[DINTA]...HUMILITY
          > >
          > > **************************************************************
          > > So, Twitchell changed the Virtues or Remedies for LUST and
          ATTACHMENT! He took the first Remedy (of two) listed for Attachment,
          [Viveka] Discrimination, from "Path" and switched it with the remedy
          or virture of *[Shil] Chastity and continence! [SHIL] and CHASTITY
          and CONTINENCE were completely eliminated!

          > > This is why Eckists find it so difficult to recall and match up
          the Five Passions to the Five Virtues! But, isn't it also strange
          that the negative passions are recalled easier by Eckists than the
          positive virtures!

          > > One can also see where Twitchell added the letter "A" to the
          Hindi words for the passions, but kept the Hindi words for the
          virtues.

          > > Prometheus
        • truthdecider
          Hey Jamie, I sent you some info on Graham. Due to the nature of the info, I sent it to you privately at your yahoo email address that s listed for you on here
          Message 4 of 9 , Oct 2, 2005
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            Hey Jamie,

            I sent you some info on Graham. Due to the nature of the info, I
            sent it to you privately at your yahoo email address that's listed for
            you on here on the ESA board. Did you receive the info?

            Truthdecider


            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "jjamie1977"
            <jjamie1977@y...> wrote:
            > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
            > <mishmisha9@y...> wrote:
            > > Okay, here's a thought/question. In analyzing and considering what HK
            > > has written in his latest Wisdom Note (LOL), do you think he has
            > > exhibited attachment or detachment in the way he treats eckists and
            > > or former eckists who have gone astray of the eck teachings? Does
            > > HK's actions and words demonstrate the Five Passions of the Mind or
            > > the Five Virtues?
            > >
            > > Mish
            > >
            > > p.s. to Jamie: Graham Forsythe has posted on TruthSeeker, HCS,
            > > Eckankar Truth and A.R.E. as FS, Graham or Graham Forsythe. He's easy
            > > to find on those sites. I'm not sure of other places he has posted or
            > > pseudonyms he uses. Hope this helps.
            >
            > --------------------------------------------------
            > thanks so much, mish. this is exactly the info i needed. i've tried and
            > tried to find a copy (even an e copy) of "in the many hands of god". no
            > luck whatsoever.
            >
            > jamie...
            > ----------------------------------------
          • prometheus_973
            Hi All, Twitchell created Eckankar based on the teachings of other religions that Eckankar views as 4th (Mental) Plane religions. I was talking to an Eckist
            Message 5 of 9 , Oct 6, 2005
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              Hi All,

              Twitchell created Eckankar based on the teachings of other religions
              that Eckankar views as 4th (Mental) Plane religions.

              I was talking to an Eckist friend a few months ago and she told me
              that she didn't have a problem with Twitchell's plagiarisms and with
              him borrowing things from other religions. She said that we all
              borrow and use things from various sources and Twitchell was no
              different. Interesting way to create a religion, but what made a
              hodge-podge of these sources into the "highest teaching" in all of
              the universes of SUGMAD? LOL!

              I started thinking about this recently and thought about how
              Eckankar views Jesus and his "Father" (God). Jesus was supposedly
              the incarnation of God who resides on either the *2nd Astral or 4th
              Mental Plane. Whereas... Twitchell, Gross, and Klemp claimed to be
              the Mahanta incarnations of SUGMAD and 14th Plane or higher!
              However, why are so many of the Eck teachings based on 4th Plane
              religions when Klemp claims to be so much "higher" in consciousness?
              [*Eckankar views some religions that it judges emotional (Astral) as
              being 2nd Plane religions.]

              The Five Passions of the Mind and Five Virtures are altered for the
              western spiritual seeker and "borrowed" by Twitchell for use as part
              of the Eckankar teachings. This is just one example, of duplication,
              that Twitchell used to create Eckankar. The spin that is put on this
              is that these other religions got this from the Eck or from
              Eckankar. But, this is just more of the flip-flop spin and deception
              that Twitchell began to use and that Klemp has continued.

              This example shows just one of the Fourth Plane connections that
              Eckankar has with Radasoami and Sant Mat.

              "The Path of the Masters" by Julian P. Johnson
              Page 362 Passions and their Remedies (Virtures):


              KAM (LUST)...*[Shil]...Chastity, continence

              KRODH (ANGER)...[Kshama]...Forgiveness, tolerance

              LOBH (GREED)...[Santosha]...Contentment

              MOH (ATTACHMENT)...*[Viveka]...Discrimination AND
              [Vairag]...Detachment

              AHANKAR (EGO; PRIDE)...[Dinta]...Humility

              **************************************************************
              Page 73 Eckankar Lexicon
              The Five Passions of the Mind...The Five Virtures:


              KAMA (LUST)...*[VIVEKA]...DISCRIMINATION

              KRODHA (ANGER)...[KSHAMA]...forgiveness, tolerance

              LOBHA (GREED)...[SANTOSHA]...contentment

              MOHA (ATTACHMENT)...[VAIRAG]...DETACHMENT

              AHANKARA (VANITY)...[DINTA]...HUMILITY

              *Twitchell changed the remedy or virture for LUST to fit the western
              seeker. Twitch took the first of two remedies for ATTACHMENT, which
              was DISCRIMINATION, and uses this for the virture for LUST. Chastity
              and continence were completely eliminated!

              Prometheus
              p.s. Isn't it interesting that in the 1966 Illuminated Way Letters
              that Twitchell never mentions Rebazar Tarzs or the Mahanta. Yet,
              Twitchell is supposedly the L.E.M. and at least a 12th Initiate! Who
              initiated him? He was still corresponding with Kirpal Singh during
              this time. Actually, the Mahanta was never mentioned by P.T. until
              1969!
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