Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: 2012 ECK Worldwide Seminar Oct. 19-21

Expand Messages
  • Russ Rodnick
    Very true. Donations are huge.   There are a number of HI s who have built huge multi level marketing businesses with Eckist s as their primary customer. One
    Message 1 of 9 , Oct 26, 2012
    • 0 Attachment
      Very true. Donations are huge.
       
      There are a number of HI's who have built huge multi level marketing businesses with Eckist's as their primary customer. One I know of told me she wrote a check for $1m to help with the building of the temple.
       
      Even Gail Twitchell sold vitamins to eckists.
       
      We are so gullible. The capitalist model is alive and well at eckankar. Business first. Meanwhile, people can suffer but who cares we're all taken care of spiritually. No need to feel anything but happy. Because soul is a happy entity.  No remorse at all.

      From: Janice Pfeiffer <jepfeiffer@...>
      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 2:34 PM
      Subject: Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: 2012 ECK Worldwide Seminar Oct. 19-21
       
      That's always been one of the hard things for me to understand about eckankar members.  After about a year, I could not help but notice that the money flow was only one way.  No money was provided for the centers to do eckankar work that I know of from Minneapolis.  Why is it they don't see that it is all about money for the corporation?  No charity work is done and even the seminar cost is paid by those who attend.  After a while it becomes obvious that it is all about profit although no one ever says it.  Why don't the members ask where all the money they send from book sales, local functions, seminars and dues goes?  I guess it would be considered disrespectful to question the lem or his spiritual advisors about money matters since obviously their intentions must be of the highest spiritual nature. 

      --- On Tue, 10/23/12, Non <eckchains@...> wrote:

      From: Non <eckchains@...>
      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: 2012 ECK Worldwide Seminar Oct. 19-21
      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Tuesday, October 23, 2012, 5:27 AM

       
      Interesting that the Klempster doesn't just offer is "Talks" for free on YouTube instead of charging $30 to $50 bucks (i think that's the amount). That pretty much says all you need to know about ECKANKULT. Non ; ) do you have the members and hi codes? --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote: > > Yes, it's this weekend, > and is billed as "A Year > Of Consecration." > > Here's some of the > PR used to sucker in > a handful of newbies > and to re-inspire and > placate the old timers: > > "Greater awareness of the > Light and Sound of God, > a knowingness that guides > you through rough waters, > and insight into the ways > of Spirit in your daily life-- > these are the gifts of the > Mahanta's love." > > ME: Once again, Klemp takes > credit for every aspect of > an ECKist's daily "spiritual" > life. This is teaching codependence > versus Self Mastery! Why? > This is the insidious part. > Klemp needs three things: > Power; Money; Adoration. > > "Each aspect of the 2012 ECK > Worldwide Seminar offers a > golden opportunity to strengthen > your bond with the Mahanta." > > ME: If an H.I. can actually > meet up with the Mahanta > on the Higher "Inner Planes," > for a one-on-one Q&A etc., > What is the point in wasting > time and money by traveling > to the EK Worldwide Seminar > on the Lowest (Physical) Plane > and seeing HK from a distance, > in an audience, and listening > to a dumbed-down talk where > he shares other peoples' > embellished stories? The whole > point, for Klemp, is the adoration. > And it gets him out of the house > and breaks up his hum-drum > life as a little known "prophet" > of a minor cult. Yes, it's a pep > rally too, and is a "re-educational" > tool that keeps people hooked/ > bound (brainwashed), and it > brings in some money. > > "Rededicate your heart to your > highest spiritual purpose at this > seminar. Enjoy a rich mix of > fellowship, inspiration, and > upliftment--highlighted by > Sri Harold Klemp's Saturday- > evening talk. Then watch yourself > grow!" > > ME: These comments about the > "heart" is somewhat confusing > when one thinks about the Astral > "Heart (4th) Chakra." After all, > Eckankar uses the Tisra Til or > the Third Eye in order to leave > the body and this is the 6th > Astral Chakra. On the other > hand if we're relating the "heart" > to Love, as Jesus taught, this > is another problem. According > to Paul Twitchell, who was the > founder of Eckankar and only > self-created Mahanta, Jesus was > merely a 2nd Initiate in Eckankar. > Plus, a 2nd Initiate 2,000 years > ago is the equivalent of what > level of initiation today? > > How many times has Klemp > made these same promises > to H.I.s? Yet, have they really > grown? I don't see it and they > don't see it! That's why many > ECKists have to close their > minds when they close their > eyes. They have to trick and > delude themselves into believing > and that's the quiet desperation > that Klemp is counting on. > > What's even funnier, and > sadder, is that ECKists will > probably have to go through > Metal Detectors, again, in > order to see Klemp in the > main hall on Saturday evening. > What's with that? It never > happened prior to 9/11, but > now the Metal Detectors and > handbag search has become > a tradition of fear mongering. > > How can Klemp be what he > claims to be... a supernatural > being higher and more powerful > than the God of other religions, > but is fearful and can't practice > detachment. What is Klemp > subconsciously teaching ECKists? > Really! He's making them more > insecure and is causing them to > close their eyes and minds even > tighter in order to deny the Light/ > Truth. This is a key piece to the > puzzle and of the Mahanta fraud. > The Metal Detectors, bag searches, > and Security Guards on Saturday > Evening are staring ECKists in > the face, yet, they rationalize > and refuse to see that Klemp is > afraid! > > Prometheus >
    • prometheus_973
      Hello Russ and All, I don t believe there is a logical reason for the increased security. Really! BTW- I blame Klemp for Hurricane Sandy! Why would either
      Message 2 of 9 , Oct 29, 2012
      • 0 Attachment
        Hello Russ and All,
        I don't believe there
        is a logical reason for
        the increased security.
        Really!

        BTW- I blame Klemp
        for Hurricane Sandy!

        Why would either Muslim
        terrorists or the Aryan
        Brotherhood and/or Tea
        Bagging nut cases target
        Klemp? And wouldn't
        Eckists, in general, be
        targeted? However, extra
        security measures are only
        taken for Klemp's talks!

        Besides, isn't HK at least
        as powerful and all knowing
        as the 4th plane "God"
        (i.e. KAL) that other religions
        worship? According to
        EK dogma and his own
        words, Klemp, the 14th
        Plane Mahanta/LEM is
        more powerful!

        Besides, if targeted (which
        isn't likely) shouldn't
        HK sacrifice himself as
        a martyr to his beliefs
        as did his past life "boyhood
        friend" 2nd Initiate Jesus?

        Really, though, Klemp had
        more of a chance of slipping
        on black ice and breaking
        his hip than getting shot
        by a terrorist. Which he did!
        LOL!

        That one really got me
        and shows that he's on
        the same "level" as his
        chelas and H.I.s!

        FYI-Klemp claims that in
        a past life, Jesus, was his
        boyhood friend. LOL!
        What a liar and narcissist!

        Klemp reminds me of
        Romney, another liar,
        who thinks he's fulfilling
        the Mormon "White Horse
        Prophecy" that the pedophile
        and conman Joseph Smith
        created. Twitchell created
        Eckankar, L. Ron Hubbard
        created Scientology, and
        Joseph Smith created LDS.
        All were conmen and liars!

        Anyway, when one takes
        extreme measures with
        Metal Detectors, Bag Searches,
        and Security Guards for
        oneself, only, and not the
        EK Membership as a whole
        it shows the extent of Klemp's
        fears.

        Where is the detachment
        and the trust in the ECK
        that Klemp preaches?

        As far as what we learned-
        Much of Eckankar was
        "borrowed" and this, too,
        was distortions and lies
        as well. Sant Mat is still
        teaching codependency
        via a hierarchy.

        True, we, who bought into
        the whole Mahanta scam,
        but who broke away, have
        learned and realized much.

        However, any New Age
        Spiritual Search would do
        the same. We broadened
        our own perspectives via
        our own desires to search
        for Truth. And, we broadened
        our minds more than those
        8ths and 9ths who stayed.

        It was us and not ECK or
        ECKankar. We learned to
        discover or rediscover our
        own true Selves and Its
        Freedom to Soar despite
        Eckankar's dogmatic confinement
        and Klemp's manipulations
        of codependency and lies.
        Listening to or reading
        Klemp's dribble is like
        listening to and believing
        propaganda from Fox News!

        Prometheus



        Russ Rodnick wrote:
        I am of the opinion that your comments are right on. However, there are logical reasons to accept the presence of security screening in this day and age. I don't neccesarily think HK can be faulted for agreeing to these measures. The vast differences between the idea of receiving one on one with the Mahanta on the inner planes and the dumbed down messages and stories one can expect at every Eckankar event, class, workshop are noteworthy. On the one hand you have the promise of a personal teacher and the on the other, a kumbaya style of hanging around the campfire and feeling good about how high we are.

        For some of us though, Eckankar did give some helpful advice on a personal level at least, I had some great take aways. As far as spiritual development goes I don't really think it delivers because the leaders are, as you say, "in the dark" themselves. People need to understand for themselves. Thankfully, I took John Lennon's message to heart. The song Imagine really speaks to me. "No religions too". And Bob Dylan's too. "Beware of leaders, and watch the parking meters".

        Now I do feel good.

        Peace out!

        Russ

        From: Non <eckchains@...

        Interesting that the Klempster doesn't just offer is "Talks" for free on YouTube instead of charging $30 to $50 bucks (i think that's the amount). That pretty much says all you need to know about ECKANKULT.

        Non ; )

        do you have the members and hi codes?

        prometheus wrote:
        >
        > Yes, it's this weekend,
        > and is billed as "A Year
        > Of Consecration."
        >
        > Here's some of the
        > PR used to sucker in
        > a handful of newbies
        > and to re-inspire and
        > placate the old timers:
        >
        > "Greater awareness of the
        > Light and Sound of God,
        > a knowingness that guides
        > you through rough waters,
        > and insight into the ways
        > of Spirit in your daily life--
        > these are the gifts of the
        > Mahanta's love."
        >
        > ME: Once again, Klemp takes
        > credit for every aspect of
        > an ECKist's daily "spiritual"
        > life. This is teaching codependence
        > versus Self Mastery! Why?
        > This is the insidious part.
        > Klemp needs three things:
        > Power; Money; Adoration.
        >
        > "Each aspect of the 2012 ECK
        > Worldwide Seminar offers a
        > golden opportunity to strengthen
        > your bond with the Mahanta."
        >
        > ME: If an H.I. can actually
        > meet up with the Mahanta
        > on the Higher "Inner Planes,"
        > for a one-on-one Q&A etc.,
        > What is the point in wasting
        > time and money by traveling
        > to the EK Worldwide Seminar
        > on the Lowest (Physical) Plane
        > and seeing HK from a distance,
        > in an audience, and listening
        > to a dumbed-down talk where
        > he shares other peoples'
        > embellished stories? The whole
        > point, for Klemp, is the adoration.
        > And it gets him out of the house
        > and breaks up his hum-drum
        > life as a little known "prophet"
        > of a minor cult. Yes, it's a pep
        > rally too, and is a "re-educational"
        > tool that keeps people hooked/
        > bound (brainwashed), and it
        > brings in some money.
        >
        > "Rededicate your heart to your
        > highest spiritual purpose at this
        > seminar. Enjoy a rich mix of
        > fellowship, inspiration, and
        > upliftment--highlighted by
        > Sri Harold Klemp's Saturday-
        > evening talk. Then watch yourself
        > grow!"
        >
        > ME: These comments about the
        > "heart" is somewhat confusing
        > when one thinks about the Astral
        > "Heart (4th) Chakra." After all,
        > Eckankar uses the Tisra Til or
        > the Third Eye in order to leave
        > the body and this is the 6th
        > Astral Chakra. On the other
        > hand if we're relating the "heart"
        > to Love, as Jesus taught, this
        > is another problem. According
        > to Paul Twitchell, who was the
        > founder of Eckankar and only
        > self-created Mahanta, Jesus was
        > merely a 2nd Initiate in Eckankar.
        > Plus, a 2nd Initiate 2,000 years
        > ago is the equivalent of what
        > level of initiation today?
        >
        > How many times has Klemp
        > made these same promises
        > to H.I.s? Yet, have they really
        > grown? I don't see it and they
        > don't see it! That's why many
        > ECKists have to close their
        > minds when they close their
        > eyes. They have to trick and
        > delude themselves into believing
        > and that's the quiet desperation
        > that Klemp is counting on.
        >
        > What's even funnier, and
        > sadder, is that ECKists will
        > probably have to go through
        > Metal Detectors, again, in
        > order to see Klemp in the
        > main hall on Saturday evening.
        > What's with that? It never
        > happened prior to 9/11, but
        > now the Metal Detectors and
        > handbag search has become
        > a tradition of fear mongering.
        >
        > How can Klemp be what he
        > claims to be... a supernatural
        > being higher and more powerful
        > than the God of other religions,
        > but is fearful and can't practice
        > detachment. What is Klemp
        > subconsciously teaching ECKists?
        > Really! He's making them more
        > insecure and is causing them to
        > close their eyes and minds even
        > tighter in order to deny the Light/
        > Truth. This is a key piece to the
        > puzzle and of the Mahanta fraud.
        > The Metal Detectors, bag searches,
        > and Security Guards on Saturday
        > Evening are staring ECKists in
        > the face, yet, they rationalize
        > and refuse to see that Klemp is
        > afraid!
        >
        > Prometheus
      • robokidnx
        Hello All, I think the answer is simple. Kelmp and his fundie supporters are afraid of ex-members returning posessed by the devil...er...Kal.
        Message 3 of 9 , Nov 1, 2012
        • 0 Attachment
          Hello All,

          I think the answer is simple. Kelmp and his fundie supporters are afraid of ex-members returning posessed by the devil...er...Kal.





          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello Russ and All,
          > I don't believe there
          > is a logical reason for
          > the increased security.
          > Really!
        • harrisonferrel
          Prometheus: I can t say how much I ve enjoyed your comments over the years on this site for survivors of the lunatic cult (redundant phrase, I know) called
          Message 4 of 9 , Nov 9, 2012
          • 0 Attachment
            Prometheus:
            I can't say how much I've enjoyed your comments over the years on this site for survivors of the lunatic cult (redundant phrase, I know) called eckankar.

            This is a gem that you wrote:

            Klemp reminds me of
            Romney, another liar,
            who thinks he's fulfilling
            the Mormon "White Horse
            Prophecy" that the pedophile
            and conman Joseph Smith
            created. Twitchell created
            Eckankar, L. Ron Hubbard
            created Scientology, and
            Joseph Smith created LDS.
            All were conmen and liars!

            Kudos!!!!

            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hello Russ and All,
            > I don't believe there
            > is a logical reason for
            > the increased security.
            > Really!
            >
            > BTW- I blame Klemp
            > for Hurricane Sandy!
            >
            > Why would either Muslim
            > terrorists or the Aryan
            > Brotherhood and/or Tea
            > Bagging nut cases target
            > Klemp? And wouldn't
            > Eckists, in general, be
            > targeted? However, extra
            > security measures are only
            > taken for Klemp's talks!
            >
            > Besides, isn't HK at least
            > as powerful and all knowing
            > as the 4th plane "God"
            > (i.e. KAL) that other religions
            > worship? According to
            > EK dogma and his own
            > words, Klemp, the 14th
            > Plane Mahanta/LEM is
            > more powerful!
            >
            > Besides, if targeted (which
            > isn't likely) shouldn't
            > HK sacrifice himself as
            > a martyr to his beliefs
            > as did his past life "boyhood
            > friend" 2nd Initiate Jesus?
            >
            > Really, though, Klemp had
            > more of a chance of slipping
            > on black ice and breaking
            > his hip than getting shot
            > by a terrorist. Which he did!
            > LOL!
            >
            > That one really got me
            > and shows that he's on
            > the same "level" as his
            > chelas and H.I.s!
            >
            > FYI-Klemp claims that in
            > a past life, Jesus, was his
            > boyhood friend. LOL!
            > What a liar and narcissist!
            >
            > Klemp reminds me of
            > Romney, another liar,
            > who thinks he's fulfilling
            > the Mormon "White Horse
            > Prophecy" that the pedophile
            > and conman Joseph Smith
            > created. Twitchell created
            > Eckankar, L. Ron Hubbard
            > created Scientology, and
            > Joseph Smith created LDS.
            > All were conmen and liars!
            >
            > Anyway, when one takes
            > extreme measures with
            > Metal Detectors, Bag Searches,
            > and Security Guards for
            > oneself, only, and not the
            > EK Membership as a whole
            > it shows the extent of Klemp's
            > fears.
            >
            > Where is the detachment
            > and the trust in the ECK
            > that Klemp preaches?
            >
            > As far as what we learned-
            > Much of Eckankar was
            > "borrowed" and this, too,
            > was distortions and lies
            > as well. Sant Mat is still
            > teaching codependency
            > via a hierarchy.
            >
            > True, we, who bought into
            > the whole Mahanta scam,
            > but who broke away, have
            > learned and realized much.
            >
            > However, any New Age
            > Spiritual Search would do
            > the same. We broadened
            > our own perspectives via
            > our own desires to search
            > for Truth. And, we broadened
            > our minds more than those
            > 8ths and 9ths who stayed.
            >
            > It was us and not ECK or
            > ECKankar. We learned to
            > discover or rediscover our
            > own true Selves and Its
            > Freedom to Soar despite
            > Eckankar's dogmatic confinement
            > and Klemp's manipulations
            > of codependency and lies.
            > Listening to or reading
            > Klemp's dribble is like
            > listening to and believing
            > propaganda from Fox News!
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            >
            >
            > Russ Rodnick wrote:
            > I am of the opinion that your comments are right on. However, there are logical reasons to accept the presence of security screening in this day and age. I don't neccesarily think HK can be faulted for agreeing to these measures. The vast differences between the idea of receiving one on one with the Mahanta on the inner planes and the dumbed down messages and stories one can expect at every Eckankar event, class, workshop are noteworthy. On the one hand you have the promise of a personal teacher and the on the other, a kumbaya style of hanging around the campfire and feeling good about how high we are.
            >
            > For some of us though, Eckankar did give some helpful advice on a personal level at least, I had some great take aways. As far as spiritual development goes I don't really think it delivers because the leaders are, as you say, "in the dark" themselves. People need to understand for themselves. Thankfully, I took John Lennon's message to heart. The song Imagine really speaks to me. "No religions too". And Bob Dylan's too. "Beware of leaders, and watch the parking meters".
            >
            > Now I do feel good.
            >
            > Peace out!
            >
            > Russ
            >
            > From: Non <eckchains@...
            >
            > Interesting that the Klempster doesn't just offer is "Talks" for free on YouTube instead of charging $30 to $50 bucks (i think that's the amount). That pretty much says all you need to know about ECKANKULT.
            >
            > Non ; )
            >
            > do you have the members and hi codes?
            >
            > prometheus wrote:
            > >
            > > Yes, it's this weekend,
            > > and is billed as "A Year
            > > Of Consecration."
            > >
            > > Here's some of the
            > > PR used to sucker in
            > > a handful of newbies
            > > and to re-inspire and
            > > placate the old timers:
            > >
            > > "Greater awareness of the
            > > Light and Sound of God,
            > > a knowingness that guides
            > > you through rough waters,
            > > and insight into the ways
            > > of Spirit in your daily life--
            > > these are the gifts of the
            > > Mahanta's love."
            > >
            > > ME: Once again, Klemp takes
            > > credit for every aspect of
            > > an ECKist's daily "spiritual"
            > > life. This is teaching codependence
            > > versus Self Mastery! Why?
            > > This is the insidious part.
            > > Klemp needs three things:
            > > Power; Money; Adoration.
            > >
            > > "Each aspect of the 2012 ECK
            > > Worldwide Seminar offers a
            > > golden opportunity to strengthen
            > > your bond with the Mahanta."
            > >
            > > ME: If an H.I. can actually
            > > meet up with the Mahanta
            > > on the Higher "Inner Planes,"
            > > for a one-on-one Q&A etc.,
            > > What is the point in wasting
            > > time and money by traveling
            > > to the EK Worldwide Seminar
            > > on the Lowest (Physical) Plane
            > > and seeing HK from a distance,
            > > in an audience, and listening
            > > to a dumbed-down talk where
            > > he shares other peoples'
            > > embellished stories? The whole
            > > point, for Klemp, is the adoration.
            > > And it gets him out of the house
            > > and breaks up his hum-drum
            > > life as a little known "prophet"
            > > of a minor cult. Yes, it's a pep
            > > rally too, and is a "re-educational"
            > > tool that keeps people hooked/
            > > bound (brainwashed), and it
            > > brings in some money.
            > >
            > > "Rededicate your heart to your
            > > highest spiritual purpose at this
            > > seminar. Enjoy a rich mix of
            > > fellowship, inspiration, and
            > > upliftment--highlighted by
            > > Sri Harold Klemp's Saturday-
            > > evening talk. Then watch yourself
            > > grow!"
            > >
            > > ME: These comments about the
            > > "heart" is somewhat confusing
            > > when one thinks about the Astral
            > > "Heart (4th) Chakra." After all,
            > > Eckankar uses the Tisra Til or
            > > the Third Eye in order to leave
            > > the body and this is the 6th
            > > Astral Chakra. On the other
            > > hand if we're relating the "heart"
            > > to Love, as Jesus taught, this
            > > is another problem. According
            > > to Paul Twitchell, who was the
            > > founder of Eckankar and only
            > > self-created Mahanta, Jesus was
            > > merely a 2nd Initiate in Eckankar.
            > > Plus, a 2nd Initiate 2,000 years
            > > ago is the equivalent of what
            > > level of initiation today?
            > >
            > > How many times has Klemp
            > > made these same promises
            > > to H.I.s? Yet, have they really
            > > grown? I don't see it and they
            > > don't see it! That's why many
            > > ECKists have to close their
            > > minds when they close their
            > > eyes. They have to trick and
            > > delude themselves into believing
            > > and that's the quiet desperation
            > > that Klemp is counting on.
            > >
            > > What's even funnier, and
            > > sadder, is that ECKists will
            > > probably have to go through
            > > Metal Detectors, again, in
            > > order to see Klemp in the
            > > main hall on Saturday evening.
            > > What's with that? It never
            > > happened prior to 9/11, but
            > > now the Metal Detectors and
            > > handbag search has become
            > > a tradition of fear mongering.
            > >
            > > How can Klemp be what he
            > > claims to be... a supernatural
            > > being higher and more powerful
            > > than the God of other religions,
            > > but is fearful and can't practice
            > > detachment. What is Klemp
            > > subconsciously teaching ECKists?
            > > Really! He's making them more
            > > insecure and is causing them to
            > > close their eyes and minds even
            > > tighter in order to deny the Light/
            > > Truth. This is a key piece to the
            > > puzzle and of the Mahanta fraud.
            > > The Metal Detectors, bag searches,
            > > and Security Guards on Saturday
            > > Evening are staring ECKists in
            > > the face, yet, they rationalize
            > > and refuse to see that Klemp is
            > > afraid!
            > >
            > > Prometheus
            >
          • harrisonferrel
            Klemp wants security because he is a bullshit conman like his predecessors and knows that he has created a lot of enemies over the many years of his reign.
            Message 5 of 9 , Nov 9, 2012
            • 0 Attachment
              Klemp wants security because he is a bullshit conman like his predecessors and knows that he has created a lot of enemies over the many years of his reign. Eventually somebody's going to clock this guy and he'll deserve it. I only wish I could be there to see it happen.

              And by the way, if I seem angry, I am. As I've stated in the past, one of the most absurd and manipulative things klemp and his band of merry followers have proffered is the idea that anger is somehow a bad thing. Why? Because angry people create a challenge and a problem. And an angry person is the kind they are afraid of.



              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Russ Rodnick <russrodnick@...> wrote:
              >
              > I am of the opinion that your comments are right on. However, there are logical reasons to accept the presence of security screening in this day and age. I don't neccesarily think HK can be faulted for agreeing to these measures. The vast differences between the idea of receiving one on one with the Mahanta on the inner planes and the dumbed down  messages and stories one can expect at every Eckankar event, class, workshop are noteworthy. On the one hand you have the promise of a personal teacher and the on the other, a kumbaya style of hanging around the campfire and feeling good about how high we are.
              >  
              > For some of us though, Eckankar did give some helpful advice on a personal level at least, I had some great take aways. As far as spiritual development goes I don't really think it delivers because the leaders are, as you say, "in the dark" themselves. People need to understand for themselves. Thankfully, I took John Lennon's message to heart. The song Imagine really speaks to me. "No religions too". And Bob Dylan's too. "Beware of leaders, and watch the parking meters".
              >  
              > Now I do feel good.
              >  
              > Peace out!
              >
              > Russ
              >
              >
              >
              > ________________________________
              > From: Non <eckchains@...>
              > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 12:27 AM
              > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: 2012 ECK Worldwide Seminar Oct. 19-21
              >
              >
              >  
              >
              > Interesting that the Klempster doesn't just offer is "Talks" for free on YouTube instead of charging $30 to $50 bucks (i think that's the amount). That pretty much says all you need to know about ECKANKULT.
              >
              > Non ; )
              >
              > do you have the members and hi codes?
              >
              > --- In mailto:EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous%40yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Yes, it's this weekend,
              > > and is billed as "A Year
              > > Of Consecration."
              > >
              > > Here's some of the
              > > PR used to sucker in
              > > a handful of newbies
              > > and to re-inspire and
              > > placate the old timers:
              > >
              > > "Greater awareness of the
              > > Light and Sound of God,
              > > a knowingness that guides
              > > you through rough waters,
              > > and insight into the ways
              > > of Spirit in your daily life--
              > > these are the gifts of the
              > > Mahanta's love."
              > >
              > > ME: Once again, Klemp takes
              > > credit for every aspect of
              > > an ECKist's daily "spiritual"
              > > life. This is teaching codependence
              > > versus Self Mastery! Why?
              > > This is the insidious part.
              > > Klemp needs three things:
              > > Power; Money; Adoration.
              > >
              > > "Each aspect of the 2012 ECK
              > > Worldwide Seminar offers a
              > > golden opportunity to strengthen
              > > your bond with the Mahanta."
              > >
              > > ME: If an H.I. can actually
              > > meet up with the Mahanta
              > > on the Higher "Inner Planes,"
              > > for a one-on-one Q&A etc.,
              > > What is the point in wasting
              > > time and money by traveling
              > > to the EK Worldwide Seminar
              > > on the Lowest (Physical) Plane
              > > and seeing HK from a distance,
              > > in an audience, and listening
              > > to a dumbed-down talk where
              > > he shares other peoples'
              > > embellished stories? The whole
              > > point, for Klemp, is the adoration.
              > > And it gets him out of the house
              > > and breaks up his hum-drum
              > > life as a little known "prophet"
              > > of a minor cult. Yes, it's a pep
              > > rally too, and is a "re-educational"
              > > tool that keeps people hooked/
              > > bound (brainwashed), and it
              > > brings in some money.
              > >
              > > "Rededicate your heart to your
              > > highest spiritual purpose at this
              > > seminar. Enjoy a rich mix of
              > > fellowship, inspiration, and
              > > upliftment--highlighted by
              > > Sri Harold Klemp's Saturday-
              > > evening talk. Then watch yourself
              > > grow!"
              > >
              > > ME: These comments about the
              > > "heart" is somewhat confusing
              > > when one thinks about the Astral
              > > "Heart (4th) Chakra." After all,
              > > Eckankar uses the Tisra Til or
              > > the Third Eye in order to leave
              > > the body and this is the 6th
              > > Astral Chakra. On the other
              > > hand if we're relating the "heart"
              > > to Love, as Jesus taught, this
              > > is another problem. According
              > > to Paul Twitchell, who was the
              > > founder of Eckankar and only
              > > self-created Mahanta, Jesus was
              > > merely a 2nd Initiate in Eckankar.
              > > Plus, a 2nd Initiate 2,000 years
              > > ago is the equivalent of what
              > > level of initiation today?
              > >
              > > How many times has Klemp
              > > made these same promises
              > > to H.I.s? Yet, have they really
              > > grown? I don't see it and they
              > > don't see it! That's why many
              > > ECKists have to close their
              > > minds when they close their
              > > eyes. They have to trick and
              > > delude themselves into believing
              > > and that's the quiet desperation
              > > that Klemp is counting on.
              > >
              > > What's even funnier, and
              > > sadder, is that ECKists will
              > > probably have to go through
              > > Metal Detectors, again, in
              > > order to see Klemp in the
              > > main hall on Saturday evening.
              > > What's with that? It never
              > > happened prior to 9/11, but
              > > now the Metal Detectors and
              > > handbag search has become
              > > a tradition of fear mongering.
              > >
              > > How can Klemp be what he
              > > claims to be... a supernatural
              > > being higher and more powerful
              > > than the God of other religions,
              > > but is fearful and can't practice
              > > detachment. What is Klemp
              > > subconsciously teaching ECKists?
              > > Really! He's making them more
              > > insecure and is causing them to
              > > close their eyes and minds even
              > > tighter in order to deny the Light/
              > > Truth. This is a key piece to the
              > > puzzle and of the Mahanta fraud.
              > > The Metal Detectors, bag searches,
              > > and Security Guards on Saturday
              > > Evening are staring ECKists in
              > > the face, yet, they rationalize
              > > and refuse to see that Klemp is
              > > afraid!
              > >
              > > Prometheus
              > >
              >
            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.