Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: HK's Broken-Hip and Fear of an Inoculation!

Expand Messages
  • postekcon
    You are Ssoooo right. This question bothered me all my time in ekult! A lot of lip-service to service per-se, but the bottom line was, only service TO
    Message 1 of 9 , Sep 6, 2012
    • 0 Attachment
      You are Ssoooo right. This question bothered me all my time in ekult!

      A lot of lip-service to 'service' per-se, but the bottom line was, only 'service' TO ekult was recorded as 'service'?

      This is NOT the way the Universe works, service to the one; to the exclusion of the other!
      -Postekcon


      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer <jepfeiffer@...> wrote:
      >
      > What occurs to me is if the lem says we are here to serve others then why is it that as members you are only given duties that serves eckankar.  I never heard of any work going on in eckankar that benefited anything but eckankar.  Most activities are geared to drag in new members period..
      >
      > --- On Tue, 9/4/12, prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
      > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] HK's Broken-Hip and Fear of an Inoculation!
      > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Tuesday, September 4, 2012, 9:34 PM
      >
      >
      >
      >  
      >
      >
      >
      > Hello All,
      > I thought I'd bring
      > this back to the front
      > page----and share
      > Klemp's Wisdom Notes
      > from the 09/2012
      > The Mystic World.
      >
      > HK starts off by
      > saying that Eckankar
      > is for "lovers of life"
      > and that people need
      > not worry by thinking
      > it is a requirement
      > to sacrifice your life
      > to be a Co-worker
      > with the Mahanta.
      >
      > Klemp then poses
      > some "What If" questions.
      > Like, what if an astroid
      > hit causing devastation.
      > What would you do?
      >
      > "My words here are not
      > a foreshadowing of a
      > planetary disaster, BUT
      > a gentle reminder that
      > we exist to serve others."
      >
      > Well, there it is again.
      > Another pitch for service!
      > Klemp needs his volunteer
      > sales staff.
      >
      > Klemp even brings up what
      > happened to the Atlanteans
      > since they "turned from love
      > and service to a grab for
      > power and conquest." See
      > what happens when ECKists
      > don't volunteer! Plus, an
      > ECKist volunteering would
      > equate to how many non-
      > ECKists not volunteering?
      > Are HK's chelas mini-holding
      > tanks for the world's Karma?
      > However, HK does alleviate
      > some possible fears/concerns
      > by saying "a global disaster
      > need not happen." So, be of
      > service!
      >
      > "The mental energies of a
      > people turned toward evil
      > do rebound upon them. It
      > is called national karma."
      >
      > It would seem that this same
      > "rebound karma" would apply
      > to religions as well. It is called
      > religious karma.
      >
      > Here's something he says
      > regarding the negative forces
      > that applies to himself, too,
      > and yet he doesn't see the
      > irony in his words. "... so is
      > it any wonder that the few
      > command the many and are
      > apt to show a blatant disregard
      > for the wishes of the latter."
      > Sounds like Klemp is speaking
      > of himself. He's a tyrant who
      > can't and won't accept constructive
      > criticism. It's a One-Way street
      > and it runs his way! ECKists
      > aren't permitted to have differing
      > views... he's always right,
      > although, he claims not to
      > be perfect. That's a Catch-22!
      >
      > "BUT that is the heavy-handed
      > nature of power in the hands
      > of spiritual adolescents. So we
      > see more autocratic or tyrannical
      > rulers than good or wise ones
      > who rule according to the law
      > of divine love."
      >
      > See, I told you that Klemp can't
      > look into the mirror and see the
      > truth. He only sees his narcissistic
      > self!
      >
      > HK then talks to ECKists about
      > choosing between following:
      > "God's law or man's law. There
      > will be consequences.... for civil
      > disobedience... Again, God's law
      > or man's law? The issue for an
      > ECKist is freedom of conscience."
      >
      > Yet, look at what freedoms
      > ECKists have within ECKankar!
      > Not that many... it's a power
      > based hierarchy ruled locally
      > by the RESAs' Police Force.
      >
      > And, let's ponder whether
      > these ECK Laws are all that
      > "high." In fact they are all of
      > the Mental Plane and were,
      > thus, created by mankind.
      > Plus, "God" is actually the
      > KAL (according to Eckankar)
      > and is the Negative Force
      > in charge of the earth.
      >
      > ***************************
      > KLEMP ON INOCULATIONS:
      >
      > This next paragraph is a real
      > eye-opener! Did you know
      > that ECKists have a RELIGIOUS
      > ISSUE regarding inoculations?
      >
      > Klemp mentions, that while
      > in the hospital with his broken
      > hip, that he refused an inoculation.
      >
      > HK: "Yes, it is a religious issue
      > for us; the inoculation would
      > pose an unacceptable threat
      > to our health."
      >
      > It's kind of strange that Klemp
      > didn't mention which inoculation
      > was an issue. All inoculations
      > or just certain ones like the Flu
      > Shot, Pneumonia, or Shingles?
      > It would be nice to know.
      >
      > However, why is the Mahanta/
      > LEM (Klemp) fearful of an
      > inoculation? Is being a "lover
      > of life," also, being fearful
      > of death? It seems so! And,
      > Klemp is 70 years old and
      > showing his age.
      >
      > Anyway, Klemp says some
      > more things we've all, basically,
      > heard before and ends with:
      > "As always, the fires of karma
      > burn ever so hot and bright,
      > leaving each Soul ever more
      > spiritually refined." Klemp,
      > then, signs off with an
      > "Affectionately, Harold"
      >
      > So, is Klemp afraid of inoculations
      > because of possible karmic
      > retribution? Is his "Holding
      > Tank" full? If it was up to
      > Klemp he'd become a typhoid
      > Harry and spread his disease
      > everywhere. What about being
      > the cause for negativity?
      >
      > Also, I find it interesting that
      > Klemp ends by saying:
      > "Affectionately, Harold"
      >
      > I was looking at Twitchell's
      > old Wisdom Notes and he'd
      > end them with "My Love Is
      > Always With You" or "My
      > Love Protects You."
      >
      > Thus, when Klemp talks
      > about "the law of divine
      > love" it's strange that he
      > ends the article with,
      > "Affectionately."
      >
      > Klemp is the "heavy-handed
      > ruler and tyrant... and
      > spiritual adolescent"
      > that he talked about.
      >
      > This is why HK is fearful
      > of inoculations and hides
      > behind "religious beliefs."
      > He cannot be Detached
      > when he refuses inoculations
      > that others, like I, get. I'm
      > not fearful and I've read
      > the literature with the side-
      > effects. This is the main
      > reason he doesn't mention
      > which inoculation he refused.
      >
      > If it has to do with religious
      > beliefs... what law of God
      > justifies this fearful omission
      > that could, also, jeopardize
      > the health of others?
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      > *********************
      > In the 09/2012 The
      > Mystic World, Klemp
      > tells of his hospital
      > experience with the
      > nursing staff.
      >
      > BTW- Notice HK's use
      > of BUT and reference
      > my previous post about
      > the use of IF, AND,
      > and especially BUT.
      >
      > I'll comment on the
      > excerpts:
      >
      > Klemp begins with his
      > story by making it seem
      > that his accident was
      > tied into being a channel
      > for the Holy Spirit.
      >
      > If asked, would you do
      > anything for the Holy
      > Spirit? And most would
      > respond, Yes, of course!
      >
      > "BUT what IF it meant
      > a complete change in
      > your way of doing nearly
      > everything?
      >
      > Notice the use of "BUT"
      > and "IF?" Two words EKists
      > are Not to use when
      > communicating with
      > one another.
      >
      > So, Klemp is setting us
      > up with his broken-hip
      > injury, caused by a fall
      > on "black ice," to be
      > something special and
      > spiritual.
      >
      > In fact, life happens!
      > Everyone goes through
      > injuries, pain, and suffering.
      > Klemp is making it seem
      > like his injury was because
      > he's what? Taking on the
      > Karma of his chelas and,
      > thus, he slips and falls?
      >
      > Or, maybe this "Slip & Fall"
      > is a Waking Dream telling
      > ECKists that Klemp has
      > Fallen from Grace! And,
      > the "Black Ice" is telling
      > us that HK's a "Black Magician"
      > like Darwin was! Darwin
      > did give the Rod of Power
      > to Klemp (the 12th initiation)
      > and initiated him with
      > several other Higher Initiations.
      > Plus, DG & HK met secretly
      > (twice, circa 1981-82)
      > in a Sound Proof Dark
      > Room where HK worked.
      > The Light and Sound was
      > kept out of this room
      > while they were preparing
      > for the transition. And,
      > it was Klemp's idea to
      > meet there, and Darwin
      > hesitated when learning
      > it had been previously
      > been converted to a
      > Sound Proof room and
      > was used as a Dark Room
      > by Klemp. However, Gross
      > overlooked his inner nudge
      > and paid the price!
      >
      > Anyway, Klemp mentions:
      > Faye, the RN; Holly, the
      > Physical Therapist; Lori,
      > the Occupational Therapist;
      > Dora, the West African
      > Nurse's Aide.
      >
      > Of course, Klemp claims
      > that everyone was talking
      > about the leader of Eckankar
      > falling on black ice and
      > breaking his hip.
      >
      > BTW- Klemp is pictured
      > at the 2012 EK Springtime
      > Seminar setting in a wheelchair.
      >
      > Anywho, HK talks about
      > Faye, nutrition, and states:
      > "BUT Faye, a member of
      > the Assembly of God church,
      > was determined to be the
      > complete professional. No
      > biases."
      >
      > Apparently Klemp feels the
      > need to give some background
      > on these people to make it
      > sound like he cares about
      > them. What Klemp fails to
      > see is that ECKist, or not,
      > we are all put into these
      > same scenarios or similar
      > situations and make small
      > talk and friends with those
      > who are taking care of us.
      >
      > Klemp, then, mentions that
      > some of Faye's co-workers
      > didn't understand their easy
      > "banter" and thought she was
      > being disrespectful since HK
      > was a preacher, of sorts, and
      > a cultist. "BUT I left her supervisor
      > a glowing commendation about
      > her healing laughter, care,
      > compassion, and understanding."
      >
      > Klemp says, "Do with me as
      > you please." Although, the
      > title of this front page article
      > is "Do With Me As You Will"
      > which is promoting HK's accident
      > as a Karmic sacrifice for his
      > chelas. Klemp's clueless about
      > the sufferings of others because
      > he has always lacked empathy!
      >
      > "Again, the EK had done with me
      > as It would, to better touch Souls
      > ready for the journey home to
      > God." Isn't "God" actually Kal,
      > whereas, Sugmad is different?
      > This is an official EK Pub so why
      > call Sugmad "God," unless, you
      > actually mean God!
      >
      > Next, Klemp mentions Holly
      > his physical therapist. She
      > mentions that, "Tomorrow at
      > this time our divorce will be
      > final." Klemp responds with,
      > "That's great!" Holly shrugs
      > her shoulders indifferently
      > and says, "I guess."
      >
      > Klemp shares his wisdom
      > of this while overlooking
      > the obvious hurt and doubts
      > that Holly is going through
      > by saying, "For her, the past
      > is the past; the present is
      > busy enough. Dear Holly."
      > To me this is a feeble attempt
      > at empathy. Plus, IMO, the
      > past isn't the past, especially,
      > when children are involved.
      >
      > Next comes Lori, Klemp's
      > occupational therapist.
      > He tells about her hunting
      > small game and recounts
      > a story she told that a cougar
      > once stalked her and her
      > husband. "BUT Lori does not
      > hunt cougar: it is a trophy
      > animal. She hunts for meat."
      > I guess that makes it okay
      > to kill.
      >
      > Now comes Dora, the West
      > African (Ghana) nurse's aide.
      > She brought ice for Harry's
      > hip and relayed messages
      > to the RN to bring "more
      > pain medication." "BUT Dora
      > did more, much more. When
      > the pain became nearly unbearable,
      > she laid a warm, encouraging
      > hand on my shoulder. Her
      > eyes, too, said, 'I understand."
      > Odd that Klemp was in so
      > much pain. One would think
      > that a 14th Initiate could HU
      > it away!
      >
      > Anyway, Joan came and picked
      > Harry up with some top ESC
      > staffers. And Klemp ends his
      > "tribute to a few of many
      > beautiful people in the healing
      > field" with these words:
      >
      > "And, Spirit of all living things,
      > I live to hallow Your name
      > among lost and wandering
      > Souls. So do with me as You
      > will."
      >
      > Klemp's con, along with his
      > delusion and narcissism, is
      > making this sound like
      > he's beseeching Spirit in
      > a prayer and giving thanks
      > that he can help "lost Souls"
      > by touching people with
      > his common everyday words
      > and presence... like everyone
      > else does in life. Except,
      > HK is more special than
      > other Souls because he's
      > the M/LEM of a false
      > teaching that pretends it's
      > "Spiritual."
      >
      > What's funny is that Klemp
      > thinks he's giving EKists
      > a pep talk and is showing
      > them how they should act
      > or respond to people if they
      > are in situations similar to
      > his as a result of Karma,
      > tests, and/or as channels
      > for Spirit.
      >
      > What Klemp is clueless of,
      > and doesn't know, is that
      > most EKists and even more
      > non-ECKists have already
      > responded in ways surpassing
      > Klemp's experience with his
      > non-lifethreatening injury.
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
    • prometheus_973
      Hello Postekcon and All, On another note is the topic about inoculations. I would really like to hear some comments and POVs concerning this. Klemp refused an
      Message 2 of 9 , Sep 6, 2012
      • 0 Attachment
        Hello Postekcon and All,

        On another note is the topic
        about inoculations. I would
        really like to hear some comments
        and POVs concerning this.

        Klemp refused an (unknown)
        inoculation at the hospital and
        used the excuse that it was
        a "Religious Issue" when there
        is absolutely no Religious Policy
        concerning inoculations that
        ECKANKAR has ever stated:

        HK: "Yes, it is a religious issue
        for us; the inoculation would
        pose an unacceptable threat to
        our health."


        Plus, Why would the "Mahanta"
        (Klemp) be fearful of this inoculation?

        If he had an allergic reaction to
        this he could use that as the reason
        not to get it, but that's not the case.
        Klemp has a "Religious Issue" with
        getting this vaccine.

        Was it a High Dose Flu Shot (for
        those 65 and older), a pneumonia
        shot, or the shingles vaccine (age
        60 and older)? What was it that
        made this a "Religious Issue" when
        it's never been mentioned before
        by ECKANKAR or by Klemp?

        Now, I can see how it might be
        a personal choice because many
        people have fears of inoculations
        or of needles in general. The CDC
        website, or Walgreens, will give
        people info on prescription drugs
        and on inoculations.

        However, for Klemp to say that
        this was a "Religious Issue" is,
        in my opinion, an attempt to
        save face.

        Klemp can't really admit that
        he has a fear that a life threatening
        reaction might occur. Maybe
        one in a million people could
        be negatively affected depending
        upon their overall health, but
        that's a minute risk compared
        to the illness or malady that
        the inoculation is preventing.

        How would it look for the
        religious leader of this small
        local cult to be fearful of
        the negligible side-effects
        of this vaccine and imagine
        this story being told to others!

        But, for a religious leader
        to decline the inoculation
        by saying it's a "Religious
        Issue" to someone who
        doesn't know anything about
        Eckankar's dogma/belief
        is a more acceptable tactic,
        although, still somewhat
        strange.

        Imagine the effort that EK
        Vahanas are making in
        order to present Eckankar
        as a normal religion with
        no strange behaviors or
        sacrifices, etc. and saying
        "We're just like you" then,
        have Klemp pull this "Religious
        Issue" card on the nursing
        staff!

        One might think, What kind
        of an ignorant, fearful, and
        antiquated cult is this Eckankar?

        Since Klemp had surgery on
        his broken hip and hardware
        put in and maybe a blood
        supplied, anesthesia, various
        drugs and a lot of pain medication
        one has to wonder why he
        declined this vaccine and
        claimed that inoculations (in
        general?) were against his
        Religion!

        I doubt that Klemp found
        out which drugs and anesthesia
        would be used for his surgery
        and recovery process to manage
        pain etc. and researched their
        side-effects and dangers.

        By being the LEM/Mahanta
        he can't just say it's a "religious
        issue" for him and Joan.

        It has now become a "Religious
        Issue" for all ECKists! Except,
        I doubt that many ECKists
        noticed his comments or if
        they did they certainly can't
        ask too many, if any, questions
        about this "Religious Issue"
        and dogma that has never
        before been revealed. And,
        by not mentioning which
        "inoculation" it still hasn't
        been revealed!

        Prometheus
        p.s. To Postekcon:
        Yes, it seems that ECKists
        don't get credit for being
        "servants," i.e. volunteers,
        within their communities.
        It doesn't count toward
        that next initiation. RESAs
        notice these things and
        unless you're a high profile
        professional, i.e. lawyer,
        doctor, or architect, one
        must become an EK volunteer
        in order to advance with
        more and higher initiations.

        Plus, Klemp has slowed
        down the initiation process
        by tying them into physical
        requirements such as
        additional training and
        duties which are, of course,
        voluntary if you want to
        become a cleric, initiator,
        spiritual aide, or RESA.
        And, these titles are tied
        into higher initiations.
        [end]

        postekcon wrote:
        You are Ssoooo right. This question bothered me all my time in ekult!

        A lot of lip-service to 'service' per-se, but the bottom line was, only
        'service' TO ekult was recorded as 'service'?

        This is NOT the way the Universe works, service to the one; to the exclusion of
        the other!
        -Postekcon


        Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
        >
        What occurs to me is if the lem says we are here to serve others then why is
        it that as members you are only given duties that serves eckankar. I never
        heard of any work going on in eckankar that benefited anything but eckankar.
        Most activities are geared to drag in new members period..



        prometheus wrote:
        >
        > Hello All,
        > I thought I'd bring
        > this back to the front
        > page----and share
        > Klemp's Wisdom Notes
        > from the 09/2012
        > The Mystic World.
        >
        > HK starts off by
        > saying that Eckankar
        > is for "lovers of life"
        > and that people need
        > not worry by thinking
        > it is a requirement
        > to sacrifice your life
        > to be a Co-worker
        > with the Mahanta.
        >
        > Klemp then poses
        > some "What If" questions.
        > Like, what if an astroid
        > hit causing devastation.
        > What would you do?
        >
        > "My words here are not
        > a foreshadowing of a
        > planetary disaster, BUT
        > a gentle reminder that
        > we exist to serve others."
        >
        > Well, there it is again.
        > Another pitch for service!
        > Klemp needs his volunteer
        > sales staff.
        >
        > Klemp even brings up what
        > happened to the Atlanteans
        > since they "turned from love
        > and service to a grab for
        > power and conquest." See
        > what happens when ECKists
        > don't volunteer! Plus, an
        > ECKist volunteering would
        > equate to how many non-
        > ECKists not volunteering?
        > Are HK's chelas mini-holding
        > tanks for the world's Karma?
        > However, HK does alleviate
        > some possible fears/concerns
        > by saying "a global disaster
        > need not happen." So, be of
        > service!
        >
        > "The mental energies of a
        > people turned toward evil
        > do rebound upon them. It
        > is called national karma."
        >
        > It would seem that this same
        > "rebound karma" would apply
        > to religions as well. It is called
        > religious karma.
        >
        > Here's something he says
        > regarding the negative forces
        > that applies to himself, too,
        > and yet he doesn't see the
        > irony in his words. "... so is
        > it any wonder that the few
        > command the many and are
        > apt to show a blatant disregard
        > for the wishes of the latter."
        > Sounds like Klemp is speaking
        > of himself. He's a tyrant who
        > can't and won't accept constructive
        > criticism. It's a One-Way street
        > and it runs his way! ECKists
        > aren't permitted to have differing
        > views... he's always right,
        > although, he claims not to
        > be perfect. That's a Catch-22!
        >
        > "BUT that is the heavy-handed
        > nature of power in the hands
        > of spiritual adolescents. So we
        > see more autocratic or tyrannical
        > rulers than good or wise ones
        > who rule according to the law
        > of divine love."
        >
        > See, I told you that Klemp can't
        > look into the mirror and see the
        > truth. He only sees his narcissistic
        > self!
        >
        > HK then talks to ECKists about
        > choosing between following:
        > "God's law or man's law. There
        > will be consequences.... for civil
        > disobedience... Again, God's law
        > or man's law? The issue for an
        > ECKist is freedom of conscience."
        >
        > Yet, look at what freedoms
        > ECKists have within ECKankar!
        > Not that many... it's a power
        > based hierarchy ruled locally
        > by the RESAs' Police Force.
        >
        > And, let's ponder whether
        > these ECK Laws are all that
        > "high." In fact they are all of
        > the Mental Plane and were,
        > thus, created by mankind.
        > Plus, "God" is actually the
        > KAL (according to Eckankar)
        > and is the Negative Force
        > in charge of the earth.
        >
        > ***************************
        > KLEMP ON INOCULATIONS:
        >
        > This next paragraph is a real
        > eye-opener! Did you know
        > that ECKists have a RELIGIOUS
        > ISSUE regarding inoculations?
        >
        > Klemp mentions, that while
        > in the hospital with his broken
        > hip, that he refused an inoculation.
        >
        > HK: "Yes, it is a religious issue
        > for us; the inoculation would
        > pose an unacceptable threat
        > to our health."
        >
        > It's kind of strange that Klemp
        > didn't mention which inoculation
        > was an issue. All inoculations
        > or just certain ones like the Flu
        > Shot, Pneumonia, or Shingles?
        > It would be nice to know.
        >
        > However, why is the Mahanta/
        > LEM (Klemp) fearful of an
        > inoculation? Is being a "lover
        > of life," also, being fearful
        > of death? It seems so! And,
        > Klemp is 70 years old and
        > showing his age.
        >
        > Anyway, Klemp says some
        > more things we've all, basically,
        > heard before and ends with:
        > "As always, the fires of karma
        > burn ever so hot and bright,
        > leaving each Soul ever more
        > spiritually refined." Klemp,
        > then, signs off with an
        > "Affectionately, Harold"
        >
        > So, is Klemp afraid of inoculations
        > because of possible karmic
        > retribution? Is his "Holding
        > Tank" full? If it was up to
        > Klemp he'd become a typhoid
        > Harry and spread his disease
        > everywhere. What about being
        > the cause for negativity?
        >
        > Also, I find it interesting that
        > Klemp ends by saying:
        > "Affectionately, Harold"
        >
        > I was looking at Twitchell's
        > old Wisdom Notes and he'd
        > end them with "My Love Is
        > Always With You" or "My
        > Love Protects You."
        >
        > Thus, when Klemp talks
        > about "the law of divine
        > love" it's strange that he
        > ends the article with,
        > "Affectionately."
        >
        > Klemp is the "heavy-handed
        > ruler and tyrant... and
        > spiritual adolescent"
        > that he talked about.
        >
        > This is why HK is fearful
        > of inoculations and hides
        > behind "religious beliefs."
        > He cannot be Detached
        > when he refuses inoculations
        > that others, like I, get. I'm
        > not fearful and I've read
        > the literature with the side-
        > effects. This is the main
        > reason he doesn't mention
        > which inoculation he refused.
        >
        > If it has to do with religious
        > beliefs... what law of God
        > justifies this fearful omission
        > that could, also, jeopardize
        > the health of others?
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
        > *********************
        > In the 09/2012 The
        > Mystic World, Klemp
        > tells of his hospital
        > experience with the
        > nursing staff.
        >
        > BTW- Notice HK's use
        > of BUT and reference
        > my previous post about
        > the use of IF, AND,
        > and especially BUT.
        >
        > I'll comment on the
        > excerpts:
        >
        > Klemp begins with his
        > story by making it seem
        > that his accident was
        > tied into being a channel
        > for the Holy Spirit.
        >
        > If asked, would you do
        > anything for the Holy
        > Spirit? And most would
        > respond, Yes, of course!
        >
        > "BUT what IF it meant
        > a complete change in
        > your way of doing nearly
        > everything?
        >
        > Notice the use of "BUT"
        > and "IF?" Two words EKists
        > are Not to use when
        > communicating with
        > one another.
        >
        > So, Klemp is setting us
        > up with his broken-hip
        > injury, caused by a fall
        > on "black ice," to be
        > something special and
        > spiritual.
        >
        > In fact, life happens!
        > Everyone goes through
        > injuries, pain, and suffering.
        > Klemp is making it seem
        > like his injury was because
        > he's what? Taking on the
        > Karma of his chelas and,
        > thus, he slips and falls?
        >
        > Or, maybe this "Slip & Fall"
        > is a Waking Dream telling
        > ECKists that Klemp has
        > Fallen from Grace! And,
        > the "Black Ice" is telling
        > us that HK's a "Black Magician"
        > like Darwin was! Darwin
        > did give the Rod of Power
        > to Klemp (the 12th initiation)
        > and initiated him with
        > several other Higher Initiations.
        > Plus, DG & HK met secretly
        > (twice, circa 1981-82)
        > in a Sound Proof Dark
        > Room where HK worked.
        > The Light and Sound was
        > kept out of this room
        > while they were preparing
        > for the transition. And,
        > it was Klemp's idea to
        > meet there, and Darwin
        > hesitated when learning
        > it had been previously
        > been converted to a
        > Sound Proof room and
        > was used as a Dark Room
        > by Klemp. However, Gross
        > overlooked his inner nudge
        > and paid the price!
        >
        > Anyway, Klemp mentions:
        > Faye, the RN; Holly, the
        > Physical Therapist; Lori,
        > the Occupational Therapist;
        > Dora, the West African
        > Nurse's Aide.
        >
        > Of course, Klemp claims
        > that everyone was talking
        > about the leader of Eckankar
        > falling on black ice and
        > breaking his hip.
        >
        > BTW- Klemp is pictured
        > at the 2012 EK Springtime
        > Seminar setting in a wheelchair.
        >
        > Anywho, HK talks about
        > Faye, nutrition, and states:
        > "BUT Faye, a member of
        > the Assembly of God church,
        > was determined to be the
        > complete professional. No
        > biases."
        >
        > Apparently Klemp feels the
        > need to give some background
        > on these people to make it
        > sound like he cares about
        > them. What Klemp fails to
        > see is that ECKist, or not,
        > we are all put into these
        > same scenarios or similar
        > situations and make small
        > talk and friends with those
        > who are taking care of us.
        >
        > Klemp, then, mentions that
        > some of Faye's co-workers
        > didn't understand their easy
        > "banter" and thought she was
        > being disrespectful since HK
        > was a preacher, of sorts, and
        > a cultist. "BUT I left her supervisor
        > a glowing commendation about
        > her healing laughter, care,
        > compassion, and understanding."
        >
        > Klemp says, "Do with me as
        > you please." Although, the
        > title of this front page article
        > is "Do With Me As You Will"
        > which is promoting HK's accident
        > as a Karmic sacrifice for his
        > chelas. Klemp's clueless about
        > the sufferings of others because
        > he has always lacked empathy!
        >
        > "Again, the EK had done with me
        > as It would, to better touch Souls
        > ready for the journey home to
        > God." Isn't "God" actually Kal,
        > whereas, Sugmad is different?
        > This is an official EK Pub so why
        > call Sugmad "God," unless, you
        > actually mean God!
        >
        > Next, Klemp mentions Holly
        > his physical therapist. She
        > mentions that, "Tomorrow at
        > this time our divorce will be
        > final." Klemp responds with,
        > "That's great!" Holly shrugs
        > her shoulders indifferently
        > and says, "I guess."
        >
        > Klemp shares his wisdom
        > of this while overlooking
        > the obvious hurt and doubts
        > that Holly is going through
        > by saying, "For her, the past
        > is the past; the present is
        > busy enough. Dear Holly."
        > To me this is a feeble attempt
        > at empathy. Plus, IMO, the
        > past isn't the past, especially,
        > when children are involved.
        >
        > Next comes Lori, Klemp's
        > occupational therapist.
        > He tells about her hunting
        > small game and recounts
        > a story she told that a cougar
        > once stalked her and her
        > husband. "BUT Lori does not
        > hunt cougar: it is a trophy
        > animal. She hunts for meat."
        > I guess that makes it okay
        > to kill.
        >
        > Now comes Dora, the West
        > African (Ghana) nurse's aide.
        > She brought ice for Harry's
        > hip and relayed messages
        > to the RN to bring "more
        > pain medication." "BUT Dora
        > did more, much more. When
        > the pain became nearly unbearable,
        > she laid a warm, encouraging
        > hand on my shoulder. Her
        > eyes, too, said, 'I understand."
        > Odd that Klemp was in so
        > much pain. One would think
        > that a 14th Initiate could HU
        > it away!
        >
        > Anyway, Joan came and picked
        > Harry up with some top ESC
        > staffers. And Klemp ends his
        > "tribute to a few of many
        > beautiful people in the healing
        > field" with these words:
        >
        > "And, Spirit of all living things,
        > I live to hallow Your name
        > among lost and wandering
        > Souls. So do with me as You
        > will."
        >
        > Klemp's con, along with his
        > delusion and narcissism, is
        > making this sound like
        > he's beseeching Spirit in
        > a prayer and giving thanks
        > that he can help "lost Souls"
        > by touching people with
        > his common everyday words
        > and presence... like everyone
        > else does in life. Except,
        > HK is more special than
        > other Souls because he's
        > the M/LEM of a false
        > teaching that pretends it's
        > "Spiritual."
        >
        > What's funny is that Klemp
        > thinks he's giving EKists
        > a pep talk and is showing
        > them how they should act
        > or respond to people if they
        > are in situations similar to
        > his as a result of Karma,
        > tests, and/or as channels
        > for Spirit.
        >
        > What Klemp is clueless of,
        > and doesn't know, is that
        > most EKists and even more
        > non-ECKists have already
        > responded in ways surpassing
        > Klemp's experience with his
        > non-lifethreatening injury.
        >
        > Prometheus
      • postekcon
        There is always some fashion or fad circulating ekult communities. They are usually in health therapy, diet or self-help fields! Most of these fads (like the
        Message 3 of 9 , Sep 7, 2012
        • 0 Attachment
          There is always some fashion or fad circulating ekult communities. They are usually in health therapy, diet or self-help fields! Most of these fads (like the inoculation story) are HK driven, interpreted from his talks and writings. When HK promotes authors such as Dale Carnegie, or some other theories, they became high profile fads for a while.

          I remember one odd fad in my ekult community, it was fashionable to discuss in class NOT taking pain medication for minor ailments etc. But then, as is now, no one discussed WHY!

          The subject of inoculation is a separate issue. One case in point, there is currently a program to eradicate polio in India via inoculation. In 2011, 47,000 new polio cases were logged as vaccine induced!
          -Postekcon


          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello Postekcon and All,
          >
          > On another note is the topic
          > about inoculations. I would
          > really like to hear some comments
          > and POVs concerning this.
          >
          > Klemp refused an (unknown)
          > inoculation at the hospital and
          > used the excuse that it was
          > a "Religious Issue" when there
          > is absolutely no Religious Policy
          > concerning inoculations that
          > ECKANKAR has ever stated:
          >
          > HK: "Yes, it is a religious issue
          > for us; the inoculation would
          > pose an unacceptable threat to
          > our health."
          >
          >
          > Plus, Why would the "Mahanta"
          > (Klemp) be fearful of this inoculation?
          >
          > If he had an allergic reaction to
          > this he could use that as the reason
          > not to get it, but that's not the case.
          > Klemp has a "Religious Issue" with
          > getting this vaccine.
          >
          > Was it a High Dose Flu Shot (for
          > those 65 and older), a pneumonia
          > shot, or the shingles vaccine (age
          > 60 and older)? What was it that
          > made this a "Religious Issue" when
          > it's never been mentioned before
          > by ECKANKAR or by Klemp?
          >
          > Now, I can see how it might be
          > a personal choice because many
          > people have fears of inoculations
          > or of needles in general. The CDC
          > website, or Walgreens, will give
          > people info on prescription drugs
          > and on inoculations.
          >
          > However, for Klemp to say that
          > this was a "Religious Issue" is,
          > in my opinion, an attempt to
          > save face.
          >
          > Klemp can't really admit that
          > he has a fear that a life threatening
          > reaction might occur. Maybe
          > one in a million people could
          > be negatively affected depending
          > upon their overall health, but
          > that's a minute risk compared
          > to the illness or malady that
          > the inoculation is preventing.
          >
          > How would it look for the
          > religious leader of this small
          > local cult to be fearful of
          > the negligible side-effects
          > of this vaccine and imagine
          > this story being told to others!
          >
          > But, for a religious leader
          > to decline the inoculation
          > by saying it's a "Religious
          > Issue" to someone who
          > doesn't know anything about
          > Eckankar's dogma/belief
          > is a more acceptable tactic,
          > although, still somewhat
          > strange.
          >
          > Imagine the effort that EK
          > Vahanas are making in
          > order to present Eckankar
          > as a normal religion with
          > no strange behaviors or
          > sacrifices, etc. and saying
          > "We're just like you" then,
          > have Klemp pull this "Religious
          > Issue" card on the nursing
          > staff!
          >
          > One might think, What kind
          > of an ignorant, fearful, and
          > antiquated cult is this Eckankar?
          >
          > Since Klemp had surgery on
          > his broken hip and hardware
          > put in and maybe a blood
          > supplied, anesthesia, various
          > drugs and a lot of pain medication
          > one has to wonder why he
          > declined this vaccine and
          > claimed that inoculations (in
          > general?) were against his
          > Religion!
          >
          > I doubt that Klemp found
          > out which drugs and anesthesia
          > would be used for his surgery
          > and recovery process to manage
          > pain etc. and researched their
          > side-effects and dangers.
          >
          > By being the LEM/Mahanta
          > he can't just say it's a "religious
          > issue" for him and Joan.
          >
          > It has now become a "Religious
          > Issue" for all ECKists! Except,
          > I doubt that many ECKists
          > noticed his comments or if
          > they did they certainly can't
          > ask too many, if any, questions
          > about this "Religious Issue"
          > and dogma that has never
          > before been revealed. And,
          > by not mentioning which
          > "inoculation" it still hasn't
          > been revealed!
          >
          > Prometheus
          > p.s. To Postekcon:
          > Yes, it seems that ECKists
          > don't get credit for being
          > "servants," i.e. volunteers,
          > within their communities.
          > It doesn't count toward
          > that next initiation. RESAs
          > notice these things and
          > unless you're a high profile
          > professional, i.e. lawyer,
          > doctor, or architect, one
          > must become an EK volunteer
          > in order to advance with
          > more and higher initiations.
          >
          > Plus, Klemp has slowed
          > down the initiation process
          > by tying them into physical
          > requirements such as
          > additional training and
          > duties which are, of course,
          > voluntary if you want to
          > become a cleric, initiator,
          > spiritual aide, or RESA.
          > And, these titles are tied
          > into higher initiations.
          > [end]
          >
          > postekcon wrote:
          > You are Ssoooo right. This question bothered me all my time in ekult!
          >
          > A lot of lip-service to 'service' per-se, but the bottom line was, only
          > 'service' TO ekult was recorded as 'service'?
          >
          > This is NOT the way the Universe works, service to the one; to the exclusion of
          > the other!
          > -Postekcon
          >
          >
          > Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
          > >
          > What occurs to me is if the lem says we are here to serve others then why is
          > it that as members you are only given duties that serves eckankar. I never
          > heard of any work going on in eckankar that benefited anything but eckankar.
          > Most activities are geared to drag in new members period..
          >
          >
          >
          > prometheus wrote:
          > >
          > > Hello All,
          > > I thought I'd bring
          > > this back to the front
          > > page----and share
          > > Klemp's Wisdom Notes
          > > from the 09/2012
          > > The Mystic World.
          > >
          > > HK starts off by
          > > saying that Eckankar
          > > is for "lovers of life"
          > > and that people need
          > > not worry by thinking
          > > it is a requirement
          > > to sacrifice your life
          > > to be a Co-worker
          > > with the Mahanta.
          > >
          > > Klemp then poses
          > > some "What If" questions.
          > > Like, what if an astroid
          > > hit causing devastation.
          > > What would you do?
          > >
          > > "My words here are not
          > > a foreshadowing of a
          > > planetary disaster, BUT
          > > a gentle reminder that
          > > we exist to serve others."
          > >
          > > Well, there it is again.
          > > Another pitch for service!
          > > Klemp needs his volunteer
          > > sales staff.
          > >
          > > Klemp even brings up what
          > > happened to the Atlanteans
          > > since they "turned from love
          > > and service to a grab for
          > > power and conquest." See
          > > what happens when ECKists
          > > don't volunteer! Plus, an
          > > ECKist volunteering would
          > > equate to how many non-
          > > ECKists not volunteering?
          > > Are HK's chelas mini-holding
          > > tanks for the world's Karma?
          > > However, HK does alleviate
          > > some possible fears/concerns
          > > by saying "a global disaster
          > > need not happen." So, be of
          > > service!
          > >
          > > "The mental energies of a
          > > people turned toward evil
          > > do rebound upon them. It
          > > is called national karma."
          > >
          > > It would seem that this same
          > > "rebound karma" would apply
          > > to religions as well. It is called
          > > religious karma.
          > >
          > > Here's something he says
          > > regarding the negative forces
          > > that applies to himself, too,
          > > and yet he doesn't see the
          > > irony in his words. "... so is
          > > it any wonder that the few
          > > command the many and are
          > > apt to show a blatant disregard
          > > for the wishes of the latter."
          > > Sounds like Klemp is speaking
          > > of himself. He's a tyrant who
          > > can't and won't accept constructive
          > > criticism. It's a One-Way street
          > > and it runs his way! ECKists
          > > aren't permitted to have differing
          > > views... he's always right,
          > > although, he claims not to
          > > be perfect. That's a Catch-22!
          > >
          > > "BUT that is the heavy-handed
          > > nature of power in the hands
          > > of spiritual adolescents. So we
          > > see more autocratic or tyrannical
          > > rulers than good or wise ones
          > > who rule according to the law
          > > of divine love."
          > >
          > > See, I told you that Klemp can't
          > > look into the mirror and see the
          > > truth. He only sees his narcissistic
          > > self!
          > >
          > > HK then talks to ECKists about
          > > choosing between following:
          > > "God's law or man's law. There
          > > will be consequences.... for civil
          > > disobedience... Again, God's law
          > > or man's law? The issue for an
          > > ECKist is freedom of conscience."
          > >
          > > Yet, look at what freedoms
          > > ECKists have within ECKankar!
          > > Not that many... it's a power
          > > based hierarchy ruled locally
          > > by the RESAs' Police Force.
          > >
          > > And, let's ponder whether
          > > these ECK Laws are all that
          > > "high." In fact they are all of
          > > the Mental Plane and were,
          > > thus, created by mankind.
          > > Plus, "God" is actually the
          > > KAL (according to Eckankar)
          > > and is the Negative Force
          > > in charge of the earth.
          > >
          > > ***************************
          > > KLEMP ON INOCULATIONS:
          > >
          > > This next paragraph is a real
          > > eye-opener! Did you know
          > > that ECKists have a RELIGIOUS
          > > ISSUE regarding inoculations?
          > >
          > > Klemp mentions, that while
          > > in the hospital with his broken
          > > hip, that he refused an inoculation.
          > >
          > > HK: "Yes, it is a religious issue
          > > for us; the inoculation would
          > > pose an unacceptable threat
          > > to our health."
          > >
          > > It's kind of strange that Klemp
          > > didn't mention which inoculation
          > > was an issue. All inoculations
          > > or just certain ones like the Flu
          > > Shot, Pneumonia, or Shingles?
          > > It would be nice to know.
          > >
          > > However, why is the Mahanta/
          > > LEM (Klemp) fearful of an
          > > inoculation? Is being a "lover
          > > of life," also, being fearful
          > > of death? It seems so! And,
          > > Klemp is 70 years old and
          > > showing his age.
          > >
          > > Anyway, Klemp says some
          > > more things we've all, basically,
          > > heard before and ends with:
          > > "As always, the fires of karma
          > > burn ever so hot and bright,
          > > leaving each Soul ever more
          > > spiritually refined." Klemp,
          > > then, signs off with an
          > > "Affectionately, Harold"
          > >
          > > So, is Klemp afraid of inoculations
          > > because of possible karmic
          > > retribution? Is his "Holding
          > > Tank" full? If it was up to
          > > Klemp he'd become a typhoid
          > > Harry and spread his disease
          > > everywhere. What about being
          > > the cause for negativity?
          > >
          > > Also, I find it interesting that
          > > Klemp ends by saying:
          > > "Affectionately, Harold"
          > >
          > > I was looking at Twitchell's
          > > old Wisdom Notes and he'd
          > > end them with "My Love Is
          > > Always With You" or "My
          > > Love Protects You."
          > >
          > > Thus, when Klemp talks
          > > about "the law of divine
          > > love" it's strange that he
          > > ends the article with,
          > > "Affectionately."
          > >
          > > Klemp is the "heavy-handed
          > > ruler and tyrant... and
          > > spiritual adolescent"
          > > that he talked about.
          > >
          > > This is why HK is fearful
          > > of inoculations and hides
          > > behind "religious beliefs."
          > > He cannot be Detached
          > > when he refuses inoculations
          > > that others, like I, get. I'm
          > > not fearful and I've read
          > > the literature with the side-
          > > effects. This is the main
          > > reason he doesn't mention
          > > which inoculation he refused.
          > >
          > > If it has to do with religious
          > > beliefs... what law of God
          > > justifies this fearful omission
          > > that could, also, jeopardize
          > > the health of others?
          > >
          > > Prometheus
          > >
          > > *********************
          > > In the 09/2012 The
          > > Mystic World, Klemp
          > > tells of his hospital
          > > experience with the
          > > nursing staff.
          > >
          > > BTW- Notice HK's use
          > > of BUT and reference
          > > my previous post about
          > > the use of IF, AND,
          > > and especially BUT.
          > >
          > > I'll comment on the
          > > excerpts:
          > >
          > > Klemp begins with his
          > > story by making it seem
          > > that his accident was
          > > tied into being a channel
          > > for the Holy Spirit.
          > >
          > > If asked, would you do
          > > anything for the Holy
          > > Spirit? And most would
          > > respond, Yes, of course!
          > >
          > > "BUT what IF it meant
          > > a complete change in
          > > your way of doing nearly
          > > everything?
          > >
          > > Notice the use of "BUT"
          > > and "IF?" Two words EKists
          > > are Not to use when
          > > communicating with
          > > one another.
          > >
          > > So, Klemp is setting us
          > > up with his broken-hip
          > > injury, caused by a fall
          > > on "black ice," to be
          > > something special and
          > > spiritual.
          > >
          > > In fact, life happens!
          > > Everyone goes through
          > > injuries, pain, and suffering.
          > > Klemp is making it seem
          > > like his injury was because
          > > he's what? Taking on the
          > > Karma of his chelas and,
          > > thus, he slips and falls?
          > >
          > > Or, maybe this "Slip & Fall"
          > > is a Waking Dream telling
          > > ECKists that Klemp has
          > > Fallen from Grace! And,
          > > the "Black Ice" is telling
          > > us that HK's a "Black Magician"
          > > like Darwin was! Darwin
          > > did give the Rod of Power
          > > to Klemp (the 12th initiation)
          > > and initiated him with
          > > several other Higher Initiations.
          > > Plus, DG & HK met secretly
          > > (twice, circa 1981-82)
          > > in a Sound Proof Dark
          > > Room where HK worked.
          > > The Light and Sound was
          > > kept out of this room
          > > while they were preparing
          > > for the transition. And,
          > > it was Klemp's idea to
          > > meet there, and Darwin
          > > hesitated when learning
          > > it had been previously
          > > been converted to a
          > > Sound Proof room and
          > > was used as a Dark Room
          > > by Klemp. However, Gross
          > > overlooked his inner nudge
          > > and paid the price!
          > >
          > > Anyway, Klemp mentions:
          > > Faye, the RN; Holly, the
          > > Physical Therapist; Lori,
          > > the Occupational Therapist;
          > > Dora, the West African
          > > Nurse's Aide.
          > >
          > > Of course, Klemp claims
          > > that everyone was talking
          > > about the leader of Eckankar
          > > falling on black ice and
          > > breaking his hip.
          > >
          > > BTW- Klemp is pictured
          > > at the 2012 EK Springtime
          > > Seminar setting in a wheelchair.
          > >
          > > Anywho, HK talks about
          > > Faye, nutrition, and states:
          > > "BUT Faye, a member of
          > > the Assembly of God church,
          > > was determined to be the
          > > complete professional. No
          > > biases."
          > >
          > > Apparently Klemp feels the
          > > need to give some background
          > > on these people to make it
          > > sound like he cares about
          > > them. What Klemp fails to
          > > see is that ECKist, or not,
          > > we are all put into these
          > > same scenarios or similar
          > > situations and make small
          > > talk and friends with those
          > > who are taking care of us.
          > >
          > > Klemp, then, mentions that
          > > some of Faye's co-workers
          > > didn't understand their easy
          > > "banter" and thought she was
          > > being disrespectful since HK
          > > was a preacher, of sorts, and
          > > a cultist. "BUT I left her supervisor
          > > a glowing commendation about
          > > her healing laughter, care,
          > > compassion, and understanding."
          > >
          > > Klemp says, "Do with me as
          > > you please." Although, the
          > > title of this front page article
          > > is "Do With Me As You Will"
          > > which is promoting HK's accident
          > > as a Karmic sacrifice for his
          > > chelas. Klemp's clueless about
          > > the sufferings of others because
          > > he has always lacked empathy!
          > >
          > > "Again, the EK had done with me
          > > as It would, to better touch Souls
          > > ready for the journey home to
          > > God." Isn't "God" actually Kal,
          > > whereas, Sugmad is different?
          > > This is an official EK Pub so why
          > > call Sugmad "God," unless, you
          > > actually mean God!
          > >
          > > Next, Klemp mentions Holly
          > > his physical therapist. She
          > > mentions that, "Tomorrow at
          > > this time our divorce will be
          > > final." Klemp responds with,
          > > "That's great!" Holly shrugs
          > > her shoulders indifferently
          > > and says, "I guess."
          > >
          > > Klemp shares his wisdom
          > > of this while overlooking
          > > the obvious hurt and doubts
          > > that Holly is going through
          > > by saying, "For her, the past
          > > is the past; the present is
          > > busy enough. Dear Holly."
          > > To me this is a feeble attempt
          > > at empathy. Plus, IMO, the
          > > past isn't the past, especially,
          > > when children are involved.
          > >
          > > Next comes Lori, Klemp's
          > > occupational therapist.
          > > He tells about her hunting
          > > small game and recounts
          > > a story she told that a cougar
          > > once stalked her and her
          > > husband. "BUT Lori does not
          > > hunt cougar: it is a trophy
          > > animal. She hunts for meat."
          > > I guess that makes it okay
          > > to kill.
          > >
          > > Now comes Dora, the West
          > > African (Ghana) nurse's aide.
          > > She brought ice for Harry's
          > > hip and relayed messages
          > > to the RN to bring "more
          > > pain medication." "BUT Dora
          > > did more, much more. When
          > > the pain became nearly unbearable,
          > > she laid a warm, encouraging
          > > hand on my shoulder. Her
          > > eyes, too, said, 'I understand."
          > > Odd that Klemp was in so
          > > much pain. One would think
          > > that a 14th Initiate could HU
          > > it away!
          > >
          > > Anyway, Joan came and picked
          > > Harry up with some top ESC
          > > staffers. And Klemp ends his
          > > "tribute to a few of many
          > > beautiful people in the healing
          > > field" with these words:
          > >
          > > "And, Spirit of all living things,
          > > I live to hallow Your name
          > > among lost and wandering
          > > Souls. So do with me as You
          > > will."
          > >
          > > Klemp's con, along with his
          > > delusion and narcissism, is
          > > making this sound like
          > > he's beseeching Spirit in
          > > a prayer and giving thanks
          > > that he can help "lost Souls"
          > > by touching people with
          > > his common everyday words
          > > and presence... like everyone
          > > else does in life. Except,
          > > HK is more special than
          > > other Souls because he's
          > > the M/LEM of a false
          > > teaching that pretends it's
          > > "Spiritual."
          > >
          > > What's funny is that Klemp
          > > thinks he's giving EKists
          > > a pep talk and is showing
          > > them how they should act
          > > or respond to people if they
          > > are in situations similar to
          > > his as a result of Karma,
          > > tests, and/or as channels
          > > for Spirit.
          > >
          > > What Klemp is clueless of,
          > > and doesn't know, is that
          > > most EKists and even more
          > > non-ECKists have already
          > > responded in ways surpassing
          > > Klemp's experience with his
          > > non-lifethreatening injury.
          > >
          > > Prometheus
          >
        • prometheus_973
          Hello Postekcon and All, Here s what I found on the polio vaccines: How is the vaccine administered? IPV is given as a shot in the arm or leg. OPV is given as
          Message 4 of 9 , Sep 7, 2012
          • 0 Attachment
            Hello Postekcon and All,
            Here's what I found on
            the polio vaccines:

            "How is the vaccine administered?

            IPV is given as a shot in the arm or leg.
            OPV is given as an oral liquid.

            OPV is no longer used in the United States,
            but is still given in other parts of the world
            where polio is common.

            Why was the U.S. polio immunization
            recommendation changed from OPV
            to IPV?

            The change to an all-IPV schedule
            in the United States occurred because
            the Few Cases of polio that were
            occurring (8-10 per year) were
            caused by the OPV vaccine itself
            and not the wild virus.

            The change to IPV protects
            individuals against paralytic polio,
            while eliminating the small chance
            (about Once in Every 2.4 Million Doses)
            of Actually Contracting Polio From
            The Live Oral Vaccine.

            OPV is better at stopping the spread
            of the virus to others, but now that
            wild (natural) polio has been eliminated
            from the Western Hemisphere, this
            advantage is no longer a consideration
            in the United States.

            IPV has been used exclusively
            in the United States since 2000.
            However, in other countries
            where wild polio is still a threat,
            OPV is still used."

            So, whether urban legend, an
            old wives tales, superstition
            misinformation or mitigating
            circumstances the numbers
            don't match. For instance, the
            above information states that
            Once out of 2.4 Million Doses
            will a person contract polio
            from the Live Oral Vaccine.

            Therefore, 47,000 cases could
            not have been vaccine induced,
            unless, the vaccine was stored
            improperly and became contaminated
            and/or inert.

            Anyhow, the point I was making
            is that Eckankar has No Policy/Rule
            stating that vaccines Should Not
            be taken because it would "pose
            an unacceptable threat to our
            health." Therefore how is this
            a "Religious Issue" for ECKists
            when it's never been documented
            as an issue?

            Does this mean that EK children
            should not be vaccinated due
            to Religious Rules/Issues?

            When did Eckankar adopt anti-drug
            policies like Christian Science?

            Besides, these ad hoc policies
            that Klemp seems to be creating
            are arbitrary. Klemp never looked
            into the dangers or side-effects
            of the drugs that his anesthesiologist
            used.

            Plus. Klemp was taking pain medication
            and asked "Dora" (the nurse's aide)
            to relay his request for more "when
            the pain became nearly unbearable."
            If anyone has taken strong prescription
            pain medication and reads the description
            and side-effects they will see that
            there can be many risks to one's
            health.

            What, according to Klemp, makes
            one drug acceptable while others
            "pose an unacceptable threat to
            our health?"

            And, I'll bet Klemp was prescribed
            some anti-inflamatory drugs as well,
            and these can be dangerous to take
            too.

            However, when it comes to some
            unknown inoculation he balks and
            plays the religious card as an excuse
            for his ignorance and fear.

            Prometheus






            "postekcon" wrote:
            >
            >
            > There is always some fashion or fad circulating ekult communities. They are usually in health therapy, diet or self-help fields! Most of these fads (like the inoculation story) are HK driven, interpreted from his talks and writings. When HK promotes authors such as Dale Carnegie, or some other theories, they became high profile fads for a while.
            >
            > I remember one odd fad in my ekult community, it was fashionable to discuss in class NOT taking pain medication for minor ailments etc. But then, as is now, no one discussed WHY!
            >
            > The subject of inoculation is a separate issue. One case in point, there is currently a program to eradicate polio in India via inoculation. In 2011, 47,000 new polio cases were logged as vaccine induced!
            > -Postekcon
            >
            >
            "prometheus_wrote:
            > >
            > > Hello Postekcon and All,
            > >
            > > On another note is the topic
            > > about inoculations. I would
            > > really like to hear some comments
            > > and POVs concerning this.
            > >
            > > Klemp refused an (unknown)
            > > inoculation at the hospital and
            > > used the excuse that it was
            > > a "Religious Issue" when there
            > > is absolutely no Religious Policy
            > > concerning inoculations that
            > > ECKANKAR has ever stated:
            > >
            > > HK: "Yes, it is a religious issue
            > > for us; the inoculation would
            > > pose an unacceptable threat to
            > > our health."
            > >
            > >
            > > Plus, Why would the "Mahanta"
            > > (Klemp) be fearful of this inoculation?
            > >
            > > If he had an allergic reaction to
            > > this he could use that as the reason
            > > not to get it, but that's not the case.
            > > Klemp has a "Religious Issue" with
            > > getting this vaccine.
            > >
            > > Was it a High Dose Flu Shot (for
            > > those 65 and older), a pneumonia
            > > shot, or the shingles vaccine (age
            > > 60 and older)? What was it that
            > > made this a "Religious Issue" when
            > > it's never been mentioned before
            > > by ECKANKAR or by Klemp?
            > >
            > > Now, I can see how it might be
            > > a personal choice because many
            > > people have fears of inoculations
            > > or of needles in general. The CDC
            > > website, or Walgreens, will give
            > > people info on prescription drugs
            > > and on inoculations.
            > >
            > > However, for Klemp to say that
            > > this was a "Religious Issue" is,
            > > in my opinion, an attempt to
            > > save face.
            > >
            > > Klemp can't really admit that
            > > he has a fear that a life threatening
            > > reaction might occur. Maybe
            > > one in a million people could
            > > be negatively affected depending
            > > upon their overall health, but
            > > that's a minute risk compared
            > > to the illness or malady that
            > > the inoculation is preventing.
            > >
            > > How would it look for the
            > > religious leader of this small
            > > local cult to be fearful of
            > > the negligible side-effects
            > > of this vaccine and imagine
            > > this story being told to others!
            > >
            > > But, for a religious leader
            > > to decline the inoculation
            > > by saying it's a "Religious
            > > Issue" to someone who
            > > doesn't know anything about
            > > Eckankar's dogma/belief
            > > is a more acceptable tactic,
            > > although, still somewhat
            > > strange.
            > >
            > > Imagine the effort that EK
            > > Vahanas are making in
            > > order to present Eckankar
            > > as a normal religion with
            > > no strange behaviors or
            > > sacrifices, etc. and saying
            > > "We're just like you" then,
            > > have Klemp pull this "Religious
            > > Issue" card on the nursing
            > > staff!
            > >
            > > One might think, What kind
            > > of an ignorant, fearful, and
            > > antiquated cult is this Eckankar?
            > >
            > > Since Klemp had surgery on
            > > his broken hip and hardware
            > > put in and maybe a blood
            > > supplied, anesthesia, various
            > > drugs and a lot of pain medication
            > > one has to wonder why he
            > > declined this vaccine and
            > > claimed that inoculations (in
            > > general?) were against his
            > > Religion!
            > >
            > > I doubt that Klemp found
            > > out which drugs and anesthesia
            > > would be used for his surgery
            > > and recovery process to manage
            > > pain etc. and researched their
            > > side-effects and dangers.
            > >
            > > By being the LEM/Mahanta
            > > he can't just say it's a "religious
            > > issue" for him and Joan.
            > >
            > > It has now become a "Religious
            > > Issue" for all ECKists! Except,
            > > I doubt that many ECKists
            > > noticed his comments or if
            > > they did they certainly can't
            > > ask too many, if any, questions
            > > about this "Religious Issue"
            > > and dogma that has never
            > > before been revealed. And,
            > > by not mentioning which
            > > "inoculation" it still hasn't
            > > been revealed!
            > >
            > > Prometheus
            > > p.s. To Postekcon:
            > > Yes, it seems that ECKists
            > > don't get credit for being
            > > "servants," i.e. volunteers,
            > > within their communities.
            > > It doesn't count toward
            > > that next initiation. RESAs
            > > notice these things and
            > > unless you're a high profile
            > > professional, i.e. lawyer,
            > > doctor, or architect, one
            > > must become an EK volunteer
            > > in order to advance with
            > > more and higher initiations.
            > >
            > > Plus, Klemp has slowed
            > > down the initiation process
            > > by tying them into physical
            > > requirements such as
            > > additional training and
            > > duties which are, of course,
            > > voluntary if you want to
            > > become a cleric, initiator,
            > > spiritual aide, or RESA.
            > > And, these titles are tied
            > > into higher initiations.
            > > [end]
            > >
            > > postekcon wrote:
            > > You are Ssoooo right. This question bothered me all my time in ekult!
            > >
            > > A lot of lip-service to 'service' per-se, but the bottom line was, only
            > > 'service' TO ekult was recorded as 'service'?
            > >
            > > This is NOT the way the Universe works, service to the one; to the exclusion of
            > > the other!
            > > -Postekcon
            > >
            > >
            > > Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
            > > >
            > > What occurs to me is if the lem says we are here to serve others then why is
            > > it that as members you are only given duties that serves eckankar. I never
            > > heard of any work going on in eckankar that benefited anything but eckankar.
            > > Most activities are geared to drag in new members period..
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > prometheus wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Hello All,
            > > > I thought I'd bring
            > > > this back to the front
            > > > page----and share
            > > > Klemp's Wisdom Notes
            > > > from the 09/2012
            > > > The Mystic World.
            > > >
            > > > HK starts off by
            > > > saying that Eckankar
            > > > is for "lovers of life"
            > > > and that people need
            > > > not worry by thinking
            > > > it is a requirement
            > > > to sacrifice your life
            > > > to be a Co-worker
            > > > with the Mahanta.
            > > >
            > > > Klemp then poses
            > > > some "What If" questions.
            > > > Like, what if an astroid
            > > > hit causing devastation.
            > > > What would you do?
            > > >
            > > > "My words here are not
            > > > a foreshadowing of a
            > > > planetary disaster, BUT
            > > > a gentle reminder that
            > > > we exist to serve others."
            > > >
            > > > Well, there it is again.
            > > > Another pitch for service!
            > > > Klemp needs his volunteer
            > > > sales staff.
            > > >
            > > > Klemp even brings up what
            > > > happened to the Atlanteans
            > > > since they "turned from love
            > > > and service to a grab for
            > > > power and conquest." See
            > > > what happens when ECKists
            > > > don't volunteer! Plus, an
            > > > ECKist volunteering would
            > > > equate to how many non-
            > > > ECKists not volunteering?
            > > > Are HK's chelas mini-holding
            > > > tanks for the world's Karma?
            > > > However, HK does alleviate
            > > > some possible fears/concerns
            > > > by saying "a global disaster
            > > > need not happen." So, be of
            > > > service!
            > > >
            > > > "The mental energies of a
            > > > people turned toward evil
            > > > do rebound upon them. It
            > > > is called national karma."
            > > >
            > > > It would seem that this same
            > > > "rebound karma" would apply
            > > > to religions as well. It is called
            > > > religious karma.
            > > >
            > > > Here's something he says
            > > > regarding the negative forces
            > > > that applies to himself, too,
            > > > and yet he doesn't see the
            > > > irony in his words. "... so is
            > > > it any wonder that the few
            > > > command the many and are
            > > > apt to show a blatant disregard
            > > > for the wishes of the latter."
            > > > Sounds like Klemp is speaking
            > > > of himself. He's a tyrant who
            > > > can't and won't accept constructive
            > > > criticism. It's a One-Way street
            > > > and it runs his way! ECKists
            > > > aren't permitted to have differing
            > > > views... he's always right,
            > > > although, he claims not to
            > > > be perfect. That's a Catch-22!
            > > >
            > > > "BUT that is the heavy-handed
            > > > nature of power in the hands
            > > > of spiritual adolescents. So we
            > > > see more autocratic or tyrannical
            > > > rulers than good or wise ones
            > > > who rule according to the law
            > > > of divine love."
            > > >
            > > > See, I told you that Klemp can't
            > > > look into the mirror and see the
            > > > truth. He only sees his narcissistic
            > > > self!
            > > >
            > > > HK then talks to ECKists about
            > > > choosing between following:
            > > > "God's law or man's law. There
            > > > will be consequences.... for civil
            > > > disobedience... Again, God's law
            > > > or man's law? The issue for an
            > > > ECKist is freedom of conscience."
            > > >
            > > > Yet, look at what freedoms
            > > > ECKists have within ECKankar!
            > > > Not that many... it's a power
            > > > based hierarchy ruled locally
            > > > by the RESAs' Police Force.
            > > >
            > > > And, let's ponder whether
            > > > these ECK Laws are all that
            > > > "high." In fact they are all of
            > > > the Mental Plane and were,
            > > > thus, created by mankind.
            > > > Plus, "God" is actually the
            > > > KAL (according to Eckankar)
            > > > and is the Negative Force
            > > > in charge of the earth.
            > > >
            > > > ***************************
            > > > KLEMP ON INOCULATIONS:
            > > >
            > > > This next paragraph is a real
            > > > eye-opener! Did you know
            > > > that ECKists have a RELIGIOUS
            > > > ISSUE regarding inoculations?
            > > >
            > > > Klemp mentions, that while
            > > > in the hospital with his broken
            > > > hip, that he refused an inoculation.
            > > >
            > > > HK: "Yes, it is a religious issue
            > > > for us; the inoculation would
            > > > pose an unacceptable threat
            > > > to our health."
            > > >
            > > > It's kind of strange that Klemp
            > > > didn't mention which inoculation
            > > > was an issue. All inoculations
            > > > or just certain ones like the Flu
            > > > Shot, Pneumonia, or Shingles?
            > > > It would be nice to know.
            > > >
            > > > However, why is the Mahanta/
            > > > LEM (Klemp) fearful of an
            > > > inoculation? Is being a "lover
            > > > of life," also, being fearful
            > > > of death? It seems so! And,
            > > > Klemp is 70 years old and
            > > > showing his age.
            > > >
            > > > Anyway, Klemp says some
            > > > more things we've all, basically,
            > > > heard before and ends with:
            > > > "As always, the fires of karma
            > > > burn ever so hot and bright,
            > > > leaving each Soul ever more
            > > > spiritually refined." Klemp,
            > > > then, signs off with an
            > > > "Affectionately, Harold"
            > > >
            > > > So, is Klemp afraid of inoculations
            > > > because of possible karmic
            > > > retribution? Is his "Holding
            > > > Tank" full? If it was up to
            > > > Klemp he'd become a typhoid
            > > > Harry and spread his disease
            > > > everywhere. What about being
            > > > the cause for negativity?
            > > >
            > > > Also, I find it interesting that
            > > > Klemp ends by saying:
            > > > "Affectionately, Harold"
            > > >
            > > > I was looking at Twitchell's
            > > > old Wisdom Notes and he'd
            > > > end them with "My Love Is
            > > > Always With You" or "My
            > > > Love Protects You."
            > > >
            > > > Thus, when Klemp talks
            > > > about "the law of divine
            > > > love" it's strange that he
            > > > ends the article with,
            > > > "Affectionately."
            > > >
            > > > Klemp is the "heavy-handed
            > > > ruler and tyrant... and
            > > > spiritual adolescent"
            > > > that he talked about.
            > > >
            > > > This is why HK is fearful
            > > > of inoculations and hides
            > > > behind "religious beliefs."
            > > > He cannot be Detached
            > > > when he refuses inoculations
            > > > that others, like I, get. I'm
            > > > not fearful and I've read
            > > > the literature with the side-
            > > > effects. This is the main
            > > > reason he doesn't mention
            > > > which inoculation he refused.
            > > >
            > > > If it has to do with religious
            > > > beliefs... what law of God
            > > > justifies this fearful omission
            > > > that could, also, jeopardize
            > > > the health of others?
            > > >
            > > > Prometheus
            > > >
            > > > *********************
            > > > In the 09/2012 The
            > > > Mystic World, Klemp
            > > > tells of his hospital
            > > > experience with the
            > > > nursing staff.
            > > >
            > > > BTW- Notice HK's use
            > > > of BUT and reference
            > > > my previous post about
            > > > the use of IF, AND,
            > > > and especially BUT.
            > > >
            > > > I'll comment on the
            > > > excerpts:
            > > >
            > > > Klemp begins with his
            > > > story by making it seem
            > > > that his accident was
            > > > tied into being a channel
            > > > for the Holy Spirit.
            > > >
            > > > If asked, would you do
            > > > anything for the Holy
            > > > Spirit? And most would
            > > > respond, Yes, of course!
            > > >
            > > > "BUT what IF it meant
            > > > a complete change in
            > > > your way of doing nearly
            > > > everything?
            > > >
            > > > Notice the use of "BUT"
            > > > and "IF?" Two words EKists
            > > > are Not to use when
            > > > communicating with
            > > > one another.
            > > >
            > > > So, Klemp is setting us
            > > > up with his broken-hip
            > > > injury, caused by a fall
            > > > on "black ice," to be
            > > > something special and
            > > > spiritual.
            > > >
            > > > In fact, life happens!
            > > > Everyone goes through
            > > > injuries, pain, and suffering.
            > > > Klemp is making it seem
            > > > like his injury was because
            > > > he's what? Taking on the
            > > > Karma of his chelas and,
            > > > thus, he slips and falls?
            > > >
            > > > Or, maybe this "Slip & Fall"
            > > > is a Waking Dream telling
            > > > ECKists that Klemp has
            > > > Fallen from Grace! And,
            > > > the "Black Ice" is telling
            > > > us that HK's a "Black Magician"
            > > > like Darwin was! Darwin
            > > > did give the Rod of Power
            > > > to Klemp (the 12th initiation)
            > > > and initiated him with
            > > > several other Higher Initiations.
            > > > Plus, DG & HK met secretly
            > > > (twice, circa 1981-82)
            > > > in a Sound Proof Dark
            > > > Room where HK worked.
            > > > The Light and Sound was
            > > > kept out of this room
            > > > while they were preparing
            > > > for the transition. And,
            > > > it was Klemp's idea to
            > > > meet there, and Darwin
            > > > hesitated when learning
            > > > it had been previously
            > > > been converted to a
            > > > Sound Proof room and
            > > > was used as a Dark Room
            > > > by Klemp. However, Gross
            > > > overlooked his inner nudge
            > > > and paid the price!
            > > >
            > > > Anyway, Klemp mentions:
            > > > Faye, the RN; Holly, the
            > > > Physical Therapist; Lori,
            > > > the Occupational Therapist;
            > > > Dora, the West African
            > > > Nurse's Aide.
            > > >
            > > > Of course, Klemp claims
            > > > that everyone was talking
            > > > about the leader of Eckankar
            > > > falling on black ice and
            > > > breaking his hip.
            > > >
            > > > BTW- Klemp is pictured
            > > > at the 2012 EK Springtime
            > > > Seminar setting in a wheelchair.
            > > >
            > > > Anywho, HK talks about
            > > > Faye, nutrition, and states:
            > > > "BUT Faye, a member of
            > > > the Assembly of God church,
            > > > was determined to be the
            > > > complete professional. No
            > > > biases."
            > > >
            > > > Apparently Klemp feels the
            > > > need to give some background
            > > > on these people to make it
            > > > sound like he cares about
            > > > them. What Klemp fails to
            > > > see is that ECKist, or not,
            > > > we are all put into these
            > > > same scenarios or similar
            > > > situations and make small
            > > > talk and friends with those
            > > > who are taking care of us.
            > > >
            > > > Klemp, then, mentions that
            > > > some of Faye's co-workers
            > > > didn't understand their easy
            > > > "banter" and thought she was
            > > > being disrespectful since HK
            > > > was a preacher, of sorts, and
            > > > a cultist. "BUT I left her supervisor
            > > > a glowing commendation about
            > > > her healing laughter, care,
            > > > compassion, and understanding."
            > > >
            > > > Klemp says, "Do with me as
            > > > you please." Although, the
            > > > title of this front page article
            > > > is "Do With Me As You Will"
            > > > which is promoting HK's accident
            > > > as a Karmic sacrifice for his
            > > > chelas. Klemp's clueless about
            > > > the sufferings of others because
            > > > he has always lacked empathy!
            > > >
            > > > "Again, the EK had done with me
            > > > as It would, to better touch Souls
            > > > ready for the journey home to
            > > > God." Isn't "God" actually Kal,
            > > > whereas, Sugmad is different?
            > > > This is an official EK Pub so why
            > > > call Sugmad "God," unless, you
            > > > actually mean God!
            > > >
            > > > Next, Klemp mentions Holly
            > > > his physical therapist. She
            > > > mentions that, "Tomorrow at
            > > > this time our divorce will be
            > > > final." Klemp responds with,
            > > > "That's great!" Holly shrugs
            > > > her shoulders indifferently
            > > > and says, "I guess."
            > > >
            > > > Klemp shares his wisdom
            > > > of this while overlooking
            > > > the obvious hurt and doubts
            > > > that Holly is going through
            > > > by saying, "For her, the past
            > > > is the past; the present is
            > > > busy enough. Dear Holly."
            > > > To me this is a feeble attempt
            > > > at empathy. Plus, IMO, the
            > > > past isn't the past, especially,
            > > > when children are involved.
            > > >
            > > > Next comes Lori, Klemp's
            > > > occupational therapist.
            > > > He tells about her hunting
            > > > small game and recounts
            > > > a story she told that a cougar
            > > > once stalked her and her
            > > > husband. "BUT Lori does not
            > > > hunt cougar: it is a trophy
            > > > animal. She hunts for meat."
            > > > I guess that makes it okay
            > > > to kill.
            > > >
            > > > Now comes Dora, the West
            > > > African (Ghana) nurse's aide.
            > > > She brought ice for Harry's
            > > > hip and relayed messages
            > > > to the RN to bring "more
            > > > pain medication." "BUT Dora
            > > > did more, much more. When
            > > > the pain became nearly unbearable,
            > > > she laid a warm, encouraging
            > > > hand on my shoulder. Her
            > > > eyes, too, said, 'I understand."
            > > > Odd that Klemp was in so
            > > > much pain. One would think
            > > > that a 14th Initiate could HU
            > > > it away!
            > > >
            > > > Anyway, Joan came and picked
            > > > Harry up with some top ESC
            > > > staffers. And Klemp ends his
            > > > "tribute to a few of many
            > > > beautiful people in the healing
            > > > field" with these words:
            > > >
            > > > "And, Spirit of all living things,
            > > > I live to hallow Your name
            > > > among lost and wandering
            > > > Souls. So do with me as You
            > > > will."
            > > >
            > > > Klemp's con, along with his
            > > > delusion and narcissism, is
            > > > making this sound like
            > > > he's beseeching Spirit in
            > > > a prayer and giving thanks
            > > > that he can help "lost Souls"
            > > > by touching people with
            > > > his common everyday words
            > > > and presence... like everyone
            > > > else does in life. Except,
            > > > HK is more special than
            > > > other Souls because he's
            > > > the M/LEM of a false
            > > > teaching that pretends it's
            > > > "Spiritual."
            > > >
            > > > What's funny is that Klemp
            > > > thinks he's giving EKists
            > > > a pep talk and is showing
            > > > them how they should act
            > > > or respond to people if they
            > > > are in situations similar to
            > > > his as a result of Karma,
            > > > tests, and/or as channels
            > > > for Spirit.
            > > >
            > > > What Klemp is clueless of,
            > > > and doesn't know, is that
            > > > most EKists and even more
            > > > non-ECKists have already
            > > > responded in ways surpassing
            > > > Klemp's experience with his
            > > > non-lifethreatening injury.
            > > >
            > > > Prometheus
            > >
            >
          • Non
            Ha, Klemp and Science is the ultimate oxymoron anyway. Any of his Hypotheses could easily be tested with the Scientific Method. He could even make a quick
            Message 5 of 9 , Sep 8, 2012
            • 0 Attachment
              Ha, Klemp and Science is the ultimate oxymoron anyway. Any of his Hypotheses could easily be tested with the Scientific Method. He could even make a quick million $'s by contacting James Randy, the Skeptic. I wonder if Klemp also believes that female ekists can shut that whole pregnancy thing down if they are "legitimately" raped. LOL

              Interesting that many Scientists have done more good in the world than any fake eck master.

              Non ; )

              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
              >
              Hello Postekcon and All,
              Here's what I found on
              the polio vaccines:

              "How is the vaccine administered?

              IPV is given as a shot in the arm or leg.
              OPV is given as an oral liquid.

              OPV is no longer used in the United States,
              but is still given in other parts of the world
              where polio is common.

              Why was the U.S. polio immunization
              recommendation changed from OPV
              to IPV?

              The change to an all-IPV schedule
              in the United States occurred because
              the Few Cases of polio that were
              occurring (8-10 per year) were
              caused by the OPV vaccine itself
              and not the wild virus.

              The change to IPV protects
              individuals against paralytic polio,
              while eliminating the small chance
              (about Once in Every 2.4 Million Doses)
              of Actually Contracting Polio From
              The Live Oral Vaccine.

              OPV is better at stopping the spread
              of the virus to others, but now that
              wild (natural) polio has been eliminated
              from the Western Hemisphere, this
              advantage is no longer a consideration
              in the United States.

              IPV has been used exclusively
              in the United States since 2000.
              However, in other countries
              where wild polio is still a threat,
              OPV is still used."

              So, whether urban legend, an
              old wives tales, superstition
              misinformation or mitigating
              circumstances the numbers
              don't match. For instance, the
              above information states that
              Once out of 2.4 Million Doses
              will a person contract polio
              from the Live Oral Vaccine.

              Therefore, 47,000 cases could
              not have been vaccine induced,
              unless, the vaccine was stored
              improperly and became contaminated
              and/or inert.

              Anyhow, the point I was making
              is that Eckankar has No Policy/Rule
              stating that vaccines Should Not
              be taken because it would "pose
              an unacceptable threat to our
              health." Therefore how is this
              a "Religious Issue" for ECKists
              when it's never been documented
              as an issue?

              Does this mean that EK children
              should not be vaccinated due
              to Religious Rules/Issues?

              When did Eckankar adopt anti-drug
              policies like Christian Science?

              Besides, these ad hoc policies
              that Klemp seems to be creating
              are arbitrary. Klemp never looked
              into the dangers or side-effects
              of the drugs that his anesthesiologist
              used.

              Plus. Klemp was taking pain medication
              and asked "Dora" (the nurse's aide)
              to relay his request for more "when
              the pain became nearly unbearable."
              If anyone has taken strong prescription
              pain medication and reads the description
              and side-effects they will see that
              there can be many risks to one's
              health.

              What, according to Klemp, makes
              one drug acceptable while others
              "pose an unacceptable threat to
              our health?"

              And, I'll bet Klemp was prescribed
              some anti-inflamatory drugs as well,
              and these can be dangerous to take
              too.

              However, when it comes to some
              unknown inoculation he balks and
              plays the religious card as an excuse
              for his ignorance and fear.

              Prometheus






              "postekcon" wrote:
              >
              >
              > There is always some fashion or fad circulating ekult communities. They are
              usually in health therapy, diet or self-help fields! Most of these fads (like
              the inoculation story) are HK driven, interpreted from his talks and writings.
              When HK promotes authors such as Dale Carnegie, or some other theories, they
              became high profile fads for a while.
              >
              > I remember one odd fad in my ekult community, it was fashionable to discuss in
              class NOT taking pain medication for minor ailments etc. But then, as is now, no
              one discussed WHY!
              >
              > The subject of inoculation is a separate issue. One case in point, there is
              currently a program to eradicate polio in India via inoculation. In 2011, 47,000
              new polio cases were logged as vaccine induced!
              > -Postekcon
              >
              >
              "prometheus_wrote:
              > >
              > > Hello Postekcon and All,
              > >
              > > On another note is the topic
              > > about inoculations. I would
              > > really like to hear some comments
              > > and POVs concerning this.
              > >
              > > Klemp refused an (unknown)
              > > inoculation at the hospital and
              > > used the excuse that it was
              > > a "Religious Issue" when there
              > > is absolutely no Religious Policy
              > > concerning inoculations that
              > > ECKANKAR has ever stated:
              > >
              > > HK: "Yes, it is a religious issue
              > > for us; the inoculation would
              > > pose an unacceptable threat to
              > > our health."
              > >
              > >
              > > Plus, Why would the "Mahanta"
              > > (Klemp) be fearful of this inoculation?
              > >
              > > If he had an allergic reaction to
              > > this he could use that as the reason
              > > not to get it, but that's not the case.
              > > Klemp has a "Religious Issue" with
              > > getting this vaccine.
              > >
              > > Was it a High Dose Flu Shot (for
              > > those 65 and older), a pneumonia
              > > shot, or the shingles vaccine (age
              > > 60 and older)? What was it that
              > > made this a "Religious Issue" when
              > > it's never been mentioned before
              > > by ECKANKAR or by Klemp?
              > >
              > > Now, I can see how it might be
              > > a personal choice because many
              > > people have fears of inoculations
              > > or of needles in general. The CDC
              > > website, or Walgreens, will give
              > > people info on prescription drugs
              > > and on inoculations.
              > >
              > > However, for Klemp to say that
              > > this was a "Religious Issue" is,
              > > in my opinion, an attempt to
              > > save face.
              > >
              > > Klemp can't really admit that
              > > he has a fear that a life threatening
              > > reaction might occur. Maybe
              > > one in a million people could
              > > be negatively affected depending
              > > upon their overall health, but
              > > that's a minute risk compared
              > > to the illness or malady that
              > > the inoculation is preventing.
              > >
              > > How would it look for the
              > > religious leader of this small
              > > local cult to be fearful of
              > > the negligible side-effects
              > > of this vaccine and imagine
              > > this story being told to others!
              > >
              > > But, for a religious leader
              > > to decline the inoculation
              > > by saying it's a "Religious
              > > Issue" to someone who
              > > doesn't know anything about
              > > Eckankar's dogma/belief
              > > is a more acceptable tactic,
              > > although, still somewhat
              > > strange.
              > >
              > > Imagine the effort that EK
              > > Vahanas are making in
              > > order to present Eckankar
              > > as a normal religion with
              > > no strange behaviors or
              > > sacrifices, etc. and saying
              > > "We're just like you" then,
              > > have Klemp pull this "Religious
              > > Issue" card on the nursing
              > > staff!
              > >
              > > One might think, What kind
              > > of an ignorant, fearful, and
              > > antiquated cult is this Eckankar?
              > >
              > > Since Klemp had surgery on
              > > his broken hip and hardware
              > > put in and maybe a blood
              > > supplied, anesthesia, various
              > > drugs and a lot of pain medication
              > > one has to wonder why he
              > > declined this vaccine and
              > > claimed that inoculations (in
              > > general?) were against his
              > > Religion!
              > >
              > > I doubt that Klemp found
              > > out which drugs and anesthesia
              > > would be used for his surgery
              > > and recovery process to manage
              > > pain etc. and researched their
              > > side-effects and dangers.
              > >
              > > By being the LEM/Mahanta
              > > he can't just say it's a "religious
              > > issue" for him and Joan.
              > >
              > > It has now become a "Religious
              > > Issue" for all ECKists! Except,
              > > I doubt that many ECKists
              > > noticed his comments or if
              > > they did they certainly can't
              > > ask too many, if any, questions
              > > about this "Religious Issue"
              > > and dogma that has never
              > > before been revealed. And,
              > > by not mentioning which
              > > "inoculation" it still hasn't
              > > been revealed!
              > >
              > > Prometheus
              > > p.s. To Postekcon:
              > > Yes, it seems that ECKists
              > > don't get credit for being
              > > "servants," i.e. volunteers,
              > > within their communities.
              > > It doesn't count toward
              > > that next initiation. RESAs
              > > notice these things and
              > > unless you're a high profile
              > > professional, i.e. lawyer,
              > > doctor, or architect, one
              > > must become an EK volunteer
              > > in order to advance with
              > > more and higher initiations.
              > >
              > > Plus, Klemp has slowed
              > > down the initiation process
              > > by tying them into physical
              > > requirements such as
              > > additional training and
              > > duties which are, of course,
              > > voluntary if you want to
              > > become a cleric, initiator,
              > > spiritual aide, or RESA.
              > > And, these titles are tied
              > > into higher initiations.
              > > [end]
              > >
              > > postekcon wrote:
              > > You are Ssoooo right. This question bothered me all my time in ekult!
              > >
              > > A lot of lip-service to 'service' per-se, but the bottom line was, only
              > > 'service' TO ekult was recorded as 'service'?
              > >
              > > This is NOT the way the Universe works, service to the one; to the exclusion
              of
              > > the other!
              > > -Postekcon
              > >
              > >
              > > Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
              > > >
              > > What occurs to me is if the lem says we are here to serve others then why is
              > > it that as members you are only given duties that serves eckankar. I never
              > > heard of any work going on in eckankar that benefited anything but eckankar.
              > > Most activities are geared to drag in new members period..
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > prometheus wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Hello All,
              > > > I thought I'd bring
              > > > this back to the front
              > > > page----and share
              > > > Klemp's Wisdom Notes
              > > > from the 09/2012
              > > > The Mystic World.
              > > >
              > > > HK starts off by
              > > > saying that Eckankar
              > > > is for "lovers of life"
              > > > and that people need
              > > > not worry by thinking
              > > > it is a requirement
              > > > to sacrifice your life
              > > > to be a Co-worker
              > > > with the Mahanta.
              > > >
              > > > Klemp then poses
              > > > some "What If" questions.
              > > > Like, what if an astroid
              > > > hit causing devastation.
              > > > What would you do?
              > > >
              > > > "My words here are not
              > > > a foreshadowing of a
              > > > planetary disaster, BUT
              > > > a gentle reminder that
              > > > we exist to serve others."
              > > >
              > > > Well, there it is again.
              > > > Another pitch for service!
              > > > Klemp needs his volunteer
              > > > sales staff.
              > > >
              > > > Klemp even brings up what
              > > > happened to the Atlanteans
              > > > since they "turned from love
              > > > and service to a grab for
              > > > power and conquest." See
              > > > what happens when ECKists
              > > > don't volunteer! Plus, an
              > > > ECKist volunteering would
              > > > equate to how many non-
              > > > ECKists not volunteering?
              > > > Are HK's chelas mini-holding
              > > > tanks for the world's Karma?
              > > > However, HK does alleviate
              > > > some possible fears/concerns
              > > > by saying "a global disaster
              > > > need not happen." So, be of
              > > > service!
              > > >
              > > > "The mental energies of a
              > > > people turned toward evil
              > > > do rebound upon them. It
              > > > is called national karma."
              > > >
              > > > It would seem that this same
              > > > "rebound karma" would apply
              > > > to religions as well. It is called
              > > > religious karma.
              > > >
              > > > Here's something he says
              > > > regarding the negative forces
              > > > that applies to himself, too,
              > > > and yet he doesn't see the
              > > > irony in his words. "... so is
              > > > it any wonder that the few
              > > > command the many and are
              > > > apt to show a blatant disregard
              > > > for the wishes of the latter."
              > > > Sounds like Klemp is speaking
              > > > of himself. He's a tyrant who
              > > > can't and won't accept constructive
              > > > criticism. It's a One-Way street
              > > > and it runs his way! ECKists
              > > > aren't permitted to have differing
              > > > views... he's always right,
              > > > although, he claims not to
              > > > be perfect. That's a Catch-22!
              > > >
              > > > "BUT that is the heavy-handed
              > > > nature of power in the hands
              > > > of spiritual adolescents. So we
              > > > see more autocratic or tyrannical
              > > > rulers than good or wise ones
              > > > who rule according to the law
              > > > of divine love."
              > > >
              > > > See, I told you that Klemp can't
              > > > look into the mirror and see the
              > > > truth. He only sees his narcissistic
              > > > self!
              > > >
              > > > HK then talks to ECKists about
              > > > choosing between following:
              > > > "God's law or man's law. There
              > > > will be consequences.... for civil
              > > > disobedience... Again, God's law
              > > > or man's law? The issue for an
              > > > ECKist is freedom of conscience."
              > > >
              > > > Yet, look at what freedoms
              > > > ECKists have within ECKankar!
              > > > Not that many... it's a power
              > > > based hierarchy ruled locally
              > > > by the RESAs' Police Force.
              > > >
              > > > And, let's ponder whether
              > > > these ECK Laws are all that
              > > > "high." In fact they are all of
              > > > the Mental Plane and were,
              > > > thus, created by mankind.
              > > > Plus, "God" is actually the
              > > > KAL (according to Eckankar)
              > > > and is the Negative Force
              > > > in charge of the earth.
              > > >
              > > > ***************************
              > > > KLEMP ON INOCULATIONS:
              > > >
              > > > This next paragraph is a real
              > > > eye-opener! Did you know
              > > > that ECKists have a RELIGIOUS
              > > > ISSUE regarding inoculations?
              > > >
              > > > Klemp mentions, that while
              > > > in the hospital with his broken
              > > > hip, that he refused an inoculation.
              > > >
              > > > HK: "Yes, it is a religious issue
              > > > for us; the inoculation would
              > > > pose an unacceptable threat
              > > > to our health."
              > > >
              > > > It's kind of strange that Klemp
              > > > didn't mention which inoculation
              > > > was an issue. All inoculations
              > > > or just certain ones like the Flu
              > > > Shot, Pneumonia, or Shingles?
              > > > It would be nice to know.
              > > >
              > > > However, why is the Mahanta/
              > > > LEM (Klemp) fearful of an
              > > > inoculation? Is being a "lover
              > > > of life," also, being fearful
              > > > of death? It seems so! And,
              > > > Klemp is 70 years old and
              > > > showing his age.
              > > >
              > > > Anyway, Klemp says some
              > > > more things we've all, basically,
              > > > heard before and ends with:
              > > > "As always, the fires of karma
              > > > burn ever so hot and bright,
              > > > leaving each Soul ever more
              > > > spiritually refined." Klemp,
              > > > then, signs off with an
              > > > "Affectionately, Harold"
              > > >
              > > > So, is Klemp afraid of inoculations
              > > > because of possible karmic
              > > > retribution? Is his "Holding
              > > > Tank" full? If it was up to
              > > > Klemp he'd become a typhoid
              > > > Harry and spread his disease
              > > > everywhere. What about being
              > > > the cause for negativity?
              > > >
              > > > Also, I find it interesting that
              > > > Klemp ends by saying:
              > > > "Affectionately, Harold"
              > > >
              > > > I was looking at Twitchell's
              > > > old Wisdom Notes and he'd
              > > > end them with "My Love Is
              > > > Always With You" or "My
              > > > Love Protects You."
              > > >
              > > > Thus, when Klemp talks
              > > > about "the law of divine
              > > > love" it's strange that he
              > > > ends the article with,
              > > > "Affectionately."
              > > >
              > > > Klemp is the "heavy-handed
              > > > ruler and tyrant... and
              > > > spiritual adolescent"
              > > > that he talked about.
              > > >
              > > > This is why HK is fearful
              > > > of inoculations and hides
              > > > behind "religious beliefs."
              > > > He cannot be Detached
              > > > when he refuses inoculations
              > > > that others, like I, get. I'm
              > > > not fearful and I've read
              > > > the literature with the side-
              > > > effects. This is the main
              > > > reason he doesn't mention
              > > > which inoculation he refused.
              > > >
              > > > If it has to do with religious
              > > > beliefs... what law of God
              > > > justifies this fearful omission
              > > > that could, also, jeopardize
              > > > the health of others?
              > > >
              > > > Prometheus
              > > >
              > > > *********************
              > > > In the 09/2012 The
              > > > Mystic World, Klemp
              > > > tells of his hospital
              > > > experience with the
              > > > nursing staff.
              > > >
              > > > BTW- Notice HK's use
              > > > of BUT and reference
              > > > my previous post about
              > > > the use of IF, AND,
              > > > and especially BUT.
              > > >
              > > > I'll comment on the
              > > > excerpts:
              > > >
              > > > Klemp begins with his
              > > > story by making it seem
              > > > that his accident was
              > > > tied into being a channel
              > > > for the Holy Spirit.
              > > >
              > > > If asked, would you do
              > > > anything for the Holy
              > > > Spirit? And most would
              > > > respond, Yes, of course!
              > > >
              > > > "BUT what IF it meant
              > > > a complete change in
              > > > your way of doing nearly
              > > > everything?
              > > >
              > > > Notice the use of "BUT"
              > > > and "IF?" Two words EKists
              > > > are Not to use when
              > > > communicating with
              > > > one another.
              > > >
              > > > So, Klemp is setting us
              > > > up with his broken-hip
              > > > injury, caused by a fall
              > > > on "black ice," to be
              > > > something special and
              > > > spiritual.
              > > >
              > > > In fact, life happens!
              > > > Everyone goes through
              > > > injuries, pain, and suffering.
              > > > Klemp is making it seem
              > > > like his injury was because
              > > > he's what? Taking on the
              > > > Karma of his chelas and,
              > > > thus, he slips and falls?
              > > >
              > > > Or, maybe this "Slip & Fall"
              > > > is a Waking Dream telling
              > > > ECKists that Klemp has
              > > > Fallen from Grace! And,
              > > > the "Black Ice" is telling
              > > > us that HK's a "Black Magician"
              > > > like Darwin was! Darwin
              > > > did give the Rod of Power
              > > > to Klemp (the 12th initiation)
              > > > and initiated him with
              > > > several other Higher Initiations.
              > > > Plus, DG & HK met secretly
              > > > (twice, circa 1981-82)
              > > > in a Sound Proof Dark
              > > > Room where HK worked.
              > > > The Light and Sound was
              > > > kept out of this room
              > > > while they were preparing
              > > > for the transition. And,
              > > > it was Klemp's idea to
              > > > meet there, and Darwin
              > > > hesitated when learning
              > > > it had been previously
              > > > been converted to a
              > > > Sound Proof room and
              > > > was used as a Dark Room
              > > > by Klemp. However, Gross
              > > > overlooked his inner nudge
              > > > and paid the price!
              > > >
              > > > Anyway, Klemp mentions:
              > > > Faye, the RN; Holly, the
              > > > Physical Therapist; Lori,
              > > > the Occupational Therapist;
              > > > Dora, the West African
              > > > Nurse's Aide.
              > > >
              > > > Of course, Klemp claims
              > > > that everyone was talking
              > > > about the leader of Eckankar
              > > > falling on black ice and
              > > > breaking his hip.
              > > >
              > > > BTW- Klemp is pictured
              > > > at the 2012 EK Springtime
              > > > Seminar setting in a wheelchair.
              > > >
              > > > Anywho, HK talks about
              > > > Faye, nutrition, and states:
              > > > "BUT Faye, a member of
              > > > the Assembly of God church,
              > > > was determined to be the
              > > > complete professional. No
              > > > biases."
              > > >
              > > > Apparently Klemp feels the
              > > > need to give some background
              > > > on these people to make it
              > > > sound like he cares about
              > > > them. What Klemp fails to
              > > > see is that ECKist, or not,
              > > > we are all put into these
              > > > same scenarios or similar
              > > > situations and make small
              > > > talk and friends with those
              > > > who are taking care of us.
              > > >
              > > > Klemp, then, mentions that
              > > > some of Faye's co-workers
              > > > didn't understand their easy
              > > > "banter" and thought she was
              > > > being disrespectful since HK
              > > > was a preacher, of sorts, and
              > > > a cultist. "BUT I left her supervisor
              > > > a glowing commendation about
              > > > her healing laughter, care,
              > > > compassion, and understanding."
              > > >
              > > > Klemp says, "Do with me as
              > > > you please." Although, the
              > > > title of this front page article
              > > > is "Do With Me As You Will"
              > > > which is promoting HK's accident
              > > > as a Karmic sacrifice for his
              > > > chelas. Klemp's clueless about
              > > > the sufferings of others because
              > > > he has always lacked empathy!
              > > >
              > > > "Again, the EK had done with me
              > > > as It would, to better touch Souls
              > > > ready for the journey home to
              > > > God." Isn't "God" actually Kal,
              > > > whereas, Sugmad is different?
              > > > This is an official EK Pub so why
              > > > call Sugmad "God," unless, you
              > > > actually mean God!
              > > >
              > > > Next, Klemp mentions Holly
              > > > his physical therapist. She
              > > > mentions that, "Tomorrow at
              > > > this time our divorce will be
              > > > final." Klemp responds with,
              > > > "That's great!" Holly shrugs
              > > > her shoulders indifferently
              > > > and says, "I guess."
              > > >
              > > > Klemp shares his wisdom
              > > > of this while overlooking
              > > > the obvious hurt and doubts
              > > > that Holly is going through
              > > > by saying, "For her, the past
              > > > is the past; the present is
              > > > busy enough. Dear Holly."
              > > > To me this is a feeble attempt
              > > > at empathy. Plus, IMO, the
              > > > past isn't the past, especially,
              > > > when children are involved.
              > > >
              > > > Next comes Lori, Klemp's
              > > > occupational therapist.
              > > > He tells about her hunting
              > > > small game and recounts
              > > > a story she told that a cougar
              > > > once stalked her and her
              > > > husband. "BUT Lori does not
              > > > hunt cougar: it is a trophy
              > > > animal. She hunts for meat."
              > > > I guess that makes it okay
              > > > to kill.
              > > >
              > > > Now comes Dora, the West
              > > > African (Ghana) nurse's aide.
              > > > She brought ice for Harry's
              > > > hip and relayed messages
              > > > to the RN to bring "more
              > > > pain medication." "BUT Dora
              > > > did more, much more. When
              > > > the pain became nearly unbearable,
              > > > she laid a warm, encouraging
              > > > hand on my shoulder. Her
              > > > eyes, too, said, 'I understand."
              > > > Odd that Klemp was in so
              > > > much pain. One would think
              > > > that a 14th Initiate could HU
              > > > it away!
              > > >
              > > > Anyway, Joan came and picked
              > > > Harry up with some top ESC
              > > > staffers. And Klemp ends his
              > > > "tribute to a few of many
              > > > beautiful people in the healing
              > > > field" with these words:
              > > >
              > > > "And, Spirit of all living things,
              > > > I live to hallow Your name
              > > > among lost and wandering
              > > > Souls. So do with me as You
              > > > will."
              > > >
              > > > Klemp's con, along with his
              > > > delusion and narcissism, is
              > > > making this sound like
              > > > he's beseeching Spirit in
              > > > a prayer and giving thanks
              > > > that he can help "lost Souls"
              > > > by touching people with
              > > > his common everyday words
              > > > and presence... like everyone
              > > > else does in life. Except,
              > > > HK is more special than
              > > > other Souls because he's
              > > > the M/LEM of a false
              > > > teaching that pretends it's
              > > > "Spiritual."
              > > >
              > > > What's funny is that Klemp
              > > > thinks he's giving EKists
              > > > a pep talk and is showing
              > > > them how they should act
              > > > or respond to people if they
              > > > are in situations similar to
              > > > his as a result of Karma,
              > > > tests, and/or as channels
              > > > for Spirit.
              > > >
              > > > What Klemp is clueless of,
              > > > and doesn't know, is that
              > > > most EKists and even more
              > > > non-ECKists have already
              > > > responded in ways surpassing
              > > > Klemp's experience with his
              > > > non-lifethreatening injury.
              > > >
              > > > Prometheus
              > >
              >
            • Janice Pfeiffer
              I think it is really kool that HK makes the statements he does about inoculations cuz it makes him appear strange to outsiders.  It just makes it harder for
              Message 6 of 9 , Sep 8, 2012
              • 0 Attachment
                I think it is really kool that HK makes the statements he does about inoculations cuz it makes him appear strange to outsiders.  It just makes it harder for eck members to excuse his nut side when he will under go surgery and take lots of meds but then again, he talks against an inoculation for "religious reasons".  Makes him sound like an uneducated backwards nerd.  That means fewer potential new members.  I like it!

                --- On Thu, 9/6/12, prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...> wrote:

                From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
                Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] HK Declines an Inoculation on Religious Grounds!
                To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Thursday, September 6, 2012, 8:42 PM

                 
                Hello Postekcon and All,

                On another note is the topic
                about inoculations. I would
                really like to hear some comments
                and POVs concerning this.

                Klemp refused an (unknown)
                inoculation at the hospital and
                used the excuse that it was
                a "Religious Issue" when there
                is absolutely no Religious Policy
                concerning inoculations that
                ECKANKAR has ever stated:

                HK: "Yes, it is a religious issue
                for us; the inoculation would
                pose an unacceptable threat to
                our health."

                Plus, Why would the "Mahanta"
                (Klemp) be fearful of this inoculation?

                If he had an allergic reaction to
                this he could use that as the reason
                not to get it, but that's not the case.
                Klemp has a "Religious Issue" with
                getting this vaccine.

                Was it a High Dose Flu Shot (for
                those 65 and older), a pneumonia
                shot, or the shingles vaccine (age
                60 and older)? What was it that
                made this a "Religious Issue" when
                it's never been mentioned before
                by ECKANKAR or by Klemp?

                Now, I can see how it might be
                a personal choice because many
                people have fears of inoculations
                or of needles in general. The CDC
                website, or Walgreens, will give
                people info on prescription drugs
                and on inoculations.

                However, for Klemp to say that
                this was a "Religious Issue" is,
                in my opinion, an attempt to
                save face.

                Klemp can't really admit that
                he has a fear that a life threatening
                reaction might occur. Maybe
                one in a million people could
                be negatively affected depending
                upon their overall health, but
                that's a minute risk compared
                to the illness or malady that
                the inoculation is preventing.

                How would it look for the
                religious leader of this small
                local cult to be fearful of
                the negligible side-effects
                of this vaccine and imagine
                this story being told to others!

                But, for a religious leader
                to decline the inoculation
                by saying it's a "Religious
                Issue" to someone who
                doesn't know anything about
                Eckankar's dogma/belief
                is a more acceptable tactic,
                although, still somewhat
                strange.

                Imagine the effort that EK
                Vahanas are making in
                order to present Eckankar
                as a normal religion with
                no strange behaviors or
                sacrifices, etc. and saying
                "We're just like you" then,
                have Klemp pull this "Religious
                Issue" card on the nursing
                staff!

                One might think, What kind
                of an ignorant, fearful, and
                antiquated cult is this Eckankar?

                Since Klemp had surgery on
                his broken hip and hardware
                put in and maybe a blood
                supplied, anesthesia, various
                drugs and a lot of pain medication
                one has to wonder why he
                declined this vaccine and
                claimed that inoculations (in
                general?) were against his
                Religion!

                I doubt that Klemp found
                out which drugs and anesthesia
                would be used for his surgery
                and recovery process to manage
                pain etc. and researched their
                side-effects and dangers.

                By being the LEM/Mahanta
                he can't just say it's a "religious
                issue" for him and Joan.

                It has now become a "Religious
                Issue" for all ECKists! Except,
                I doubt that many ECKists
                noticed his comments or if
                they did they certainly can't
                ask too many, if any, questions
                about this "Religious Issue"
                and dogma that has never
                before been revealed. And,
                by not mentioning which
                "inoculation" it still hasn't
                been revealed!

                Prometheus
                p.s. To Postekcon:
                Yes, it seems that ECKists
                don't get credit for being
                "servants," i.e. volunteers,
                within their communities.
                It doesn't count toward
                that next initiation. RESAs
                notice these things and
                unless you're a high profile
                professional, i.e. lawyer,
                doctor, or architect, one
                must become an EK volunteer
                in order to advance with
                more and higher initiations.

                Plus, Klemp has slowed
                down the initiation process
                by tying them into physical
                requirements such as
                additional training and
                duties which are, of course,
                voluntary if you want to
                become a cleric, initiator,
                spiritual aide, or RESA.
                And, these titles are tied
                into higher initiations.
                [end]

                postekcon wrote:
                You are Ssoooo right. This question bothered me all my time in ekult!

                A lot of lip-service to 'service' per-se, but the bottom line was, only
                'service' TO ekult was recorded as 'service'?

                This is NOT the way the Universe works, service to the one; to the exclusion of
                the other!
                -Postekcon

                Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
                >
                What occurs to me is if the lem says we are here to serve others then why is
                it that as members you are only given duties that serves eckankar. I never
                heard of any work going on in eckankar that benefited anything but eckankar.
                Most activities are geared to drag in new members period..

                prometheus wrote:
                >
                > Hello All,
                > I thought I'd bring
                > this back to the front
                > page----and share
                > Klemp's Wisdom Notes
                > from the 09/2012
                > The Mystic World.
                >
                > HK starts off by
                > saying that Eckankar
                > is for "lovers of life"
                > and that people need
                > not worry by thinking
                > it is a requirement
                > to sacrifice your life
                > to be a Co-worker
                > with the Mahanta.
                >
                > Klemp then poses
                > some "What If" questions.
                > Like, what if an astroid
                > hit causing devastation.
                > What would you do?
                >
                > "My words here are not
                > a foreshadowing of a
                > planetary disaster, BUT
                > a gentle reminder that
                > we exist to serve others."
                >
                > Well, there it is again.
                > Another pitch for service!
                > Klemp needs his volunteer
                > sales staff.
                >
                > Klemp even brings up what
                > happened to the Atlanteans
                > since they "turned from love
                > and service to a grab for
                > power and conquest." See
                > what happens when ECKists
                > don't volunteer! Plus, an
                > ECKist volunteering would
                > equate to how many non-
                > ECKists not volunteering?
                > Are HK's chelas mini-holding
                > tanks for the world's Karma?
                > However, HK does alleviate
                > some possible fears/concerns
                > by saying "a global disaster
                > need not happen." So, be of
                > service!
                >
                > "The mental energies of a
                > people turned toward evil
                > do rebound upon them. It
                > is called national karma."
                >
                > It would seem that this same
                > "rebound karma" would apply
                > to religions as well. It is called
                > religious karma.
                >
                > Here's something he says
                > regarding the negative forces
                > that applies to himself, too,
                > and yet he doesn't see the
                > irony in his words. "... so is
                > it any wonder that the few
                > command the many and are
                > apt to show a blatant disregard
                > for the wishes of the latter."
                > Sounds like Klemp is speaking
                > of himself. He's a tyrant who
                > can't and won't accept constructive
                > criticism. It's a One-Way street
                > and it runs his way! ECKists
                > aren't permitted to have differing
                > views... he's always right,
                > although, he claims not to
                > be perfect. That's a Catch-22!
                >
                > "BUT that is the heavy-handed
                > nature of power in the hands
                > of spiritual adolescents. So we
                > see more autocratic or tyrannical
                > rulers than good or wise ones
                > who rule according to the law
                > of divine love."
                >
                > See, I told you that Klemp can't
                > look into the mirror and see the
                > truth. He only sees his narcissistic
                > self!
                >
                > HK then talks to ECKists about
                > choosing between following:
                > "God's law or man's law. There
                > will be consequences.... for civil
                > disobedience... Again, God's law
                > or man's law? The issue for an
                > ECKist is freedom of conscience."
                >
                > Yet, look at what freedoms
                > ECKists have within ECKankar!
                > Not that many... it's a power
                > based hierarchy ruled locally
                > by the RESAs' Police Force.
                >
                > And, let's ponder whether
                > these ECK Laws are all that
                > "high." In fact they are all of
                > the Mental Plane and were,
                > thus, created by mankind.
                > Plus, "God" is actually the
                > KAL (according to Eckankar)
                > and is the Negative Force
                > in charge of the earth.
                >
                > ***************************
                > KLEMP ON INOCULATIONS:
                >
                > This next paragraph is a real
                > eye-opener! Did you know
                > that ECKists have a RELIGIOUS
                > ISSUE regarding inoculations?
                >
                > Klemp mentions, that while
                > in the hospital with his broken
                > hip, that he refused an inoculation.
                >
                > HK: "Yes, it is a religious issue
                > for us; the inoculation would
                > pose an unacceptable threat
                > to our health."
                >
                > It's kind of strange that Klemp
                > didn't mention which inoculation
                > was an issue. All inoculations
                > or just certain ones like the Flu
                > Shot, Pneumonia, or Shingles?
                > It would be nice to know.
                >
                > However, why is the Mahanta/
                > LEM (Klemp) fearful of an
                > inoculation? Is being a "lover
                > of life," also, being fearful
                > of death? It seems so! And,
                > Klemp is 70 years old and
                > showing his age.
                >
                > Anyway, Klemp says some
                > more things we've all, basically,
                > heard before and ends with:
                > "As always, the fires of karma
                > burn ever so hot and bright,
                > leaving each Soul ever more
                > spiritually refined." Klemp,
                > then, signs off with an
                > "Affectionately, Harold"
                >
                > So, is Klemp afraid of inoculations
                > because of possible karmic
                > retribution? Is his "Holding
                > Tank" full? If it was up to
                > Klemp he'd become a typhoid
                > Harry and spread his disease
                > everywhere. What about being
                > the cause for negativity?
                >
                > Also, I find it interesting that
                > Klemp ends by saying:
                > "Affectionately, Harold"
                >
                > I was looking at Twitchell's
                > old Wisdom Notes and he'd
                > end them with "My Love Is
                > Always With You" or "My
                > Love Protects You."
                >
                > Thus, when Klemp talks
                > about "the law of divine
                > love" it's strange that he
                > ends the article with,
                > "Affectionately."
                >
                > Klemp is the "heavy-handed
                > ruler and tyrant... and
                > spiritual adolescent"
                > that he talked about.
                >
                > This is why HK is fearful
                > of inoculations and hides
                > behind "religious beliefs."
                > He cannot be Detached
                > when he refuses inoculations
                > that others, like I, get. I'm
                > not fearful and I've read
                > the literature with the side-
                > effects. This is the main
                > reason he doesn't mention
                > which inoculation he refused.
                >
                > If it has to do with religious
                > beliefs... what law of God
                > justifies this fearful omission
                > that could, also, jeopardize
                > the health of others?
                >
                > Prometheus
                >
                > *********************
                > In the 09/2012 The
                > Mystic World, Klemp
                > tells of his hospital
                > experience with the
                > nursing staff.
                >
                > BTW- Notice HK's use
                > of BUT and reference
                > my previous post about
                > the use of IF, AND,
                > and especially BUT.
                >
                > I'll comment on the
                > excerpts:
                >
                > Klemp begins with his
                > story by making it seem
                > that his accident was
                > tied into being a channel
                > for the Holy Spirit.
                >
                > If asked, would you do
                > anything for the Holy
                > Spirit? And most would
                > respond, Yes, of course!
                >
                > "BUT what IF it meant
                > a complete change in
                > your way of doing nearly
                > everything?
                >
                > Notice the use of "BUT"
                > and "IF?" Two words EKists
                > are Not to use when
                > communicating with
                > one another.
                >
                > So, Klemp is setting us
                > up with his broken-hip
                > injury, caused by a fall
                > on "black ice," to be
                > something special and
                > spiritual.
                >
                > In fact, life happens!
                > Everyone goes through
                > injuries, pain, and suffering.
                > Klemp is making it seem
                > like his injury was because
                > he's what? Taking on the
                > Karma of his chelas and,
                > thus, he slips and falls?
                >
                > Or, maybe this "Slip & Fall"
                > is a Waking Dream telling
                > ECKists that Klemp has
                > Fallen from Grace! And,
                > the "Black Ice" is telling
                > us that HK's a "Black Magician"
                > like Darwin was! Darwin
                > did give the Rod of Power
                > to Klemp (the 12th initiation)
                > and initiated him with
                > several other Higher Initiations.
                > Plus, DG & HK met secretly
                > (twice, circa 1981-82)
                > in a Sound Proof Dark
                > Room where HK worked.
                > The Light and Sound was
                > kept out of this room
                > while they were preparing
                > for the transition. And,
                > it was Klemp's idea to
                > meet there, and Darwin
                > hesitated when learning
                > it had been previously
                > been converted to a
                > Sound Proof room and
                > was used as a Dark Room
                > by Klemp. However, Gross
                > overlooked his inner nudge
                > and paid the price!
                >
                > Anyway, Klemp mentions:
                > Faye, the RN; Holly, the
                > Physical Therapist; Lori,
                > the Occupational Therapist;
                > Dora, the West African
                > Nurse's Aide.
                >
                > Of course, Klemp claims
                > that everyone was talking
                > about the leader of Eckankar
                > falling on black ice and
                > breaking his hip.
                >
                > BTW- Klemp is pictured
                > at the 2012 EK Springtime
                > Seminar setting in a wheelchair.
                >
                > Anywho, HK talks about
                > Faye, nutrition, and states:
                > "BUT Faye, a member of
                > the Assembly of God church,
                > was determined to be the
                > complete professional. No
                > biases."
                >
                > Apparently Klemp feels the
                > need to give some background
                > on these people to make it
                > sound like he cares about
                > them. What Klemp fails to
                > see is that ECKist, or not,
                > we are all put into these
                > same scenarios or similar
                > situations and make small
                > talk and friends with those
                > who are taking care of us.
                >
                > Klemp, then, mentions that
                > some of Faye's co-workers
                > didn't understand their easy
                > "banter" and thought she was
                > being disrespectful since HK
                > was a preacher, of sorts, and
                > a cultist. "BUT I left her supervisor
                > a glowing commendation about
                > her healing laughter, care,
                > compassion, and understanding."
                >
                > Klemp says, "Do with me as
                > you please." Although, the
                > title of this front page article
                > is "Do With Me As You Will"
                > which is promoting HK's accident
                > as a Karmic sacrifice for his
                > chelas. Klemp's clueless about
                > the sufferings of others because
                > he has always lacked empathy!
                >
                > "Again, the EK had done with me
                > as It would, to better touch Souls
                > ready for the journey home to
                > God." Isn't "God" actually Kal,
                > whereas, Sugmad is different?
                > This is an official EK Pub so why
                > call Sugmad "God," unless, you
                > actually mean God!
                >
                > Next, Klemp mentions Holly
                > his physical therapist. She
                > mentions that, "Tomorrow at
                > this time our divorce will be
                > final." Klemp responds with,
                > "That's great!" Holly shrugs
                > her shoulders indifferently
                > and says, "I guess."
                >
                > Klemp shares his wisdom
                > of this while overlooking
                > the obvious hurt and doubts
                > that Holly is going through
                > by saying, "For her, the past
                > is the past; the present is
                > busy enough. Dear Holly."
                > To me this is a feeble attempt
                > at empathy. Plus, IMO, the
                > past isn't the past, especially,
                > when children are involved.
                >
                > Next comes Lori, Klemp's
                > occupational therapist.
                > He tells about her hunting
                > small game and recounts
                > a story she told that a cougar
                > once stalked her and her
                > husband. "BUT Lori does not
                > hunt cougar: it is a trophy
                > animal. She hunts for meat."
                > I guess that makes it okay
                > to kill.
                >
                > Now comes Dora, the West
                > African (Ghana) nurse's aide.
                > She brought ice for Harry's
                > hip and relayed messages
                > to the RN to bring "more
                > pain medication." "BUT Dora
                > did more, much more. When
                > the pain became nearly unbearable,
                > she laid a warm, encouraging
                > hand on my shoulder. Her
                > eyes, too, said, 'I understand."
                > Odd that Klemp was in so
                > much pain. One would think
                > that a 14th Initiate could HU
                > it away!
                >
                > Anyway, Joan came and picked
                > Harry up with some top ESC
                > staffers. And Klemp ends his
                > "tribute to a few of many
                > beautiful people in the healing
                > field" with these words:
                >
                > "And, Spirit of all living things,
                > I live to hallow Your name
                > among lost and wandering
                > Souls. So do with me as You
                > will."
                >
                > Klemp's con, along with his
                > delusion and narcissism, is
                > making this sound like
                > he's beseeching Spirit in
                > a prayer and giving thanks
                > that he can help "lost Souls"
                > by touching people with
                > his common everyday words
                > and presence... like everyone
                > else does in life. Except,
                > HK is more special than
                > other Souls because he's
                > the M/LEM of a false
                > teaching that pretends it's
                > "Spiritual."
                >
                > What's funny is that Klemp
                > thinks he's giving EKists
                > a pep talk and is showing
                > them how they should act
                > or respond to people if they
                > are in situations similar to
                > his as a result of Karma,
                > tests, and/or as channels
                > for Spirit.
                >
                > What Klemp is clueless of,
                > and doesn't know, is that
                > most EKists and even more
                > non-ECKists have already
                > responded in ways surpassing
                > Klemp's experience with his
                > non-lifethreatening injury.
                >
                > Prometheus

              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.