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Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] HK's Broken-Hip and Fear of an Inoculation!

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  • Janice Pfeiffer
    What occurs to me is if the lem says we are here to serve others then why is it that as members you are only given duties that serves eckankar.  I never heard
    Message 1 of 9 , Sep 4, 2012
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      What occurs to me is if the lem says we are here to serve others then why is it that as members you are only given duties that serves eckankar.  I never heard of any work going on in eckankar that benefited anything but eckankar.  Most activities are geared to drag in new members period..

      --- On Tue, 9/4/12, prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...> wrote:

      From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] HK's Broken-Hip and Fear of an Inoculation!
      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Tuesday, September 4, 2012, 9:34 PM

       
      Hello All,
      I thought I'd bring
      this back to the front
      page----and share
      Klemp's Wisdom Notes
      from the 09/2012
      The Mystic World.

      HK starts off by
      saying that Eckankar
      is for "lovers of life"
      and that people need
      not worry by thinking
      it is a requirement
      to sacrifice your life
      to be a Co-worker
      with the Mahanta.

      Klemp then poses
      some "What If" questions.
      Like, what if an astroid
      hit causing devastation.
      What would you do?

      "My words here are not
      a foreshadowing of a
      planetary disaster, BUT
      a gentle reminder that
      we exist to serve others."

      Well, there it is again.
      Another pitch for service!
      Klemp needs his volunteer
      sales staff.

      Klemp even brings up what
      happened to the Atlanteans
      since they "turned from love
      and service to a grab for
      power and conquest." See
      what happens when ECKists
      don't volunteer! Plus, an
      ECKist volunteering would
      equate to how many non-
      ECKists not volunteering?
      Are HK's chelas mini-holding
      tanks for the world's Karma?
      However, HK does alleviate
      some possible fears/concerns
      by saying "a global disaster
      need not happen." So, be of
      service!

      "The mental energies of a
      people turned toward evil
      do rebound upon them. It
      is called national karma."

      It would seem that this same
      "rebound karma" would apply
      to religions as well. It is called
      religious karma.

      Here's something he says
      regarding the negative forces
      that applies to himself, too,
      and yet he doesn't see the
      irony in his words. "... so is
      it any wonder that the few
      command the many and are
      apt to show a blatant disregard
      for the wishes of the latter."
      Sounds like Klemp is speaking
      of himself. He's a tyrant who
      can't and won't accept constructive
      criticism. It's a One-Way street
      and it runs his way! ECKists
      aren't permitted to have differing
      views... he's always right,
      although, he claims not to
      be perfect. That's a Catch-22!

      "BUT that is the heavy-handed
      nature of power in the hands
      of spiritual adolescents. So we
      see more autocratic or tyrannical
      rulers than good or wise ones
      who rule according to the law
      of divine love."

      See, I told you that Klemp can't
      look into the mirror and see the
      truth. He only sees his narcissistic
      self!

      HK then talks to ECKists about
      choosing between following:
      "God's law or man's law. There
      will be consequences.... for civil
      disobedience... Again, God's law
      or man's law? The issue for an
      ECKist is freedom of conscience."

      Yet, look at what freedoms
      ECKists have within ECKankar!
      Not that many... it's a power
      based hierarchy ruled locally
      by the RESAs' Police Force.

      And, let's ponder whether
      these ECK Laws are all that
      "high." In fact they are all of
      the Mental Plane and were,
      thus, created by mankind.
      Plus, "God" is actually the
      KAL (according to Eckankar)
      and is the Negative Force
      in charge of the earth.

      ***************************
      KLEMP ON INOCULATIONS:

      This next paragraph is a real
      eye-opener! Did you know
      that ECKists have a RELIGIOUS
      ISSUE regarding inoculations?

      Klemp mentions, that while
      in the hospital with his broken
      hip, that he refused an inoculation.

      HK: "Yes, it is a religious issue
      for us; the inoculation would
      pose an unacceptable threat
      to our health."

      It's kind of strange that Klemp
      didn't mention which inoculation
      was an issue. All inoculations
      or just certain ones like the Flu
      Shot, Pneumonia, or Shingles?
      It would be nice to know.

      However, why is the Mahanta/
      LEM (Klemp) fearful of an
      inoculation? Is being a "lover
      of life," also, being fearful
      of death? It seems so! And,
      Klemp is 70 years old and
      showing his age.

      Anyway, Klemp says some
      more things we've all, basically,
      heard before and ends with:
      "As always, the fires of karma
      burn ever so hot and bright,
      leaving each Soul ever more
      spiritually refined." Klemp,
      then, signs off with an
      "Affectionately, Harold"

      So, is Klemp afraid of inoculations
      because of possible karmic
      retribution? Is his "Holding
      Tank" full? If it was up to
      Klemp he'd become a typhoid
      Harry and spread his disease
      everywhere. What about being
      the cause for negativity?

      Also, I find it interesting that
      Klemp ends by saying:
      "Affectionately, Harold"

      I was looking at Twitchell's
      old Wisdom Notes and he'd
      end them with "My Love Is
      Always With You" or "My
      Love Protects You."

      Thus, when Klemp talks
      about "the law of divine
      love" it's strange that he
      ends the article with,
      "Affectionately."

      Klemp is the "heavy-handed
      ruler and tyrant... and
      spiritual adolescent"
      that he talked about.

      This is why HK is fearful
      of inoculations and hides
      behind "religious beliefs."
      He cannot be Detached
      when he refuses inoculations
      that others, like I, get. I'm
      not fearful and I've read
      the literature with the side-
      effects. This is the main
      reason he doesn't mention
      which inoculation he refused.

      If it has to do with religious
      beliefs... what law of God
      justifies this fearful omission
      that could, also, jeopardize
      the health of others?

      Prometheus

      *********************
      In the 09/2012 The
      Mystic World, Klemp
      tells of his hospital
      experience with the
      nursing staff.

      BTW- Notice HK's use
      of BUT and reference
      my previous post about
      the use of IF, AND,
      and especially BUT.

      I'll comment on the
      excerpts:

      Klemp begins with his
      story by making it seem
      that his accident was
      tied into being a channel
      for the Holy Spirit.

      If asked, would you do
      anything for the Holy
      Spirit? And most would
      respond, Yes, of course!

      "BUT what IF it meant
      a complete change in
      your way of doing nearly
      everything?

      Notice the use of "BUT"
      and "IF?" Two words EKists
      are Not to use when
      communicating with
      one another.

      So, Klemp is setting us
      up with his broken-hip
      injury, caused by a fall
      on "black ice," to be
      something special and
      spiritual.

      In fact, life happens!
      Everyone goes through
      injuries, pain, and suffering.
      Klemp is making it seem
      like his injury was because
      he's what? Taking on the
      Karma of his chelas and,
      thus, he slips and falls?

      Or, maybe this "Slip & Fall"
      is a Waking Dream telling
      ECKists that Klemp has
      Fallen from Grace! And,
      the "Black Ice" is telling
      us that HK's a "Black Magician"
      like Darwin was! Darwin
      did give the Rod of Power
      to Klemp (the 12th initiation)
      and initiated him with
      several other Higher Initiations.
      Plus, DG & HK met secretly
      (twice, circa 1981-82)
      in a Sound Proof Dark
      Room where HK worked.
      The Light and Sound was
      kept out of this room
      while they were preparing
      for the transition. And,
      it was Klemp's idea to
      meet there, and Darwin
      hesitated when learning
      it had been previously
      been converted to a
      Sound Proof room and
      was used as a Dark Room
      by Klemp. However, Gross
      overlooked his inner nudge
      and paid the price!

      Anyway, Klemp mentions:
      Faye, the RN; Holly, the
      Physical Therapist; Lori,
      the Occupational Therapist;
      Dora, the West African
      Nurse's Aide.

      Of course, Klemp claims
      that everyone was talking
      about the leader of Eckankar
      falling on black ice and
      breaking his hip.

      BTW- Klemp is pictured
      at the 2012 EK Springtime
      Seminar setting in a wheelchair.

      Anywho, HK talks about
      Faye, nutrition, and states:
      "BUT Faye, a member of
      the Assembly of God church,
      was determined to be the
      complete professional. No
      biases."

      Apparently Klemp feels the
      need to give some background
      on these people to make it
      sound like he cares about
      them. What Klemp fails to
      see is that ECKist, or not,
      we are all put into these
      same scenarios or similar
      situations and make small
      talk and friends with those
      who are taking care of us.

      Klemp, then, mentions that
      some of Faye's co-workers
      didn't understand their easy
      "banter" and thought she was
      being disrespectful since HK
      was a preacher, of sorts, and
      a cultist. "BUT I left her supervisor
      a glowing commendation about
      her healing laughter, care,
      compassion, and understanding."

      Klemp says, "Do with me as
      you please." Although, the
      title of this front page article
      is "Do With Me As You Will"
      which is promoting HK's accident
      as a Karmic sacrifice for his
      chelas. Klemp's clueless about
      the sufferings of others because
      he has always lacked empathy!

      "Again, the EK had done with me
      as It would, to better touch Souls
      ready for the journey home to
      God." Isn't "God" actually Kal,
      whereas, Sugmad is different?
      This is an official EK Pub so why
      call Sugmad "God," unless, you
      actually mean God!

      Next, Klemp mentions Holly
      his physical therapist. She
      mentions that, "Tomorrow at
      this time our divorce will be
      final." Klemp responds with,
      "That's great!" Holly shrugs
      her shoulders indifferently
      and says, "I guess."

      Klemp shares his wisdom
      of this while overlooking
      the obvious hurt and doubts
      that Holly is going through
      by saying, "For her, the past
      is the past; the present is
      busy enough. Dear Holly."
      To me this is a feeble attempt
      at empathy. Plus, IMO, the
      past isn't the past, especially,
      when children are involved.

      Next comes Lori, Klemp's
      occupational therapist.
      He tells about her hunting
      small game and recounts
      a story she told that a cougar
      once stalked her and her
      husband. "BUT Lori does not
      hunt cougar: it is a trophy
      animal. She hunts for meat."
      I guess that makes it okay
      to kill.

      Now comes Dora, the West
      African (Ghana) nurse's aide.
      She brought ice for Harry's
      hip and relayed messages
      to the RN to bring "more
      pain medication." "BUT Dora
      did more, much more. When
      the pain became nearly unbearable,
      she laid a warm, encouraging
      hand on my shoulder. Her
      eyes, too, said, 'I understand."
      Odd that Klemp was in so
      much pain. One would think
      that a 14th Initiate could HU
      it away!

      Anyway, Joan came and picked
      Harry up with some top ESC
      staffers. And Klemp ends his
      "tribute to a few of many
      beautiful people in the healing
      field" with these words:

      "And, Spirit of all living things,
      I live to hallow Your name
      among lost and wandering
      Souls. So do with me as You
      will."

      Klemp's con, along with his
      delusion and narcissism, is
      making this sound like
      he's beseeching Spirit in
      a prayer and giving thanks
      that he can help "lost Souls"
      by touching people with
      his common everyday words
      and presence... like everyone
      else does in life. Except,
      HK is more special than
      other Souls because he's
      the M/LEM of a false
      teaching that pretends it's
      "Spiritual."

      What's funny is that Klemp
      thinks he's giving EKists
      a pep talk and is showing
      them how they should act
      or respond to people if they
      are in situations similar to
      his as a result of Karma,
      tests, and/or as channels
      for Spirit.

      What Klemp is clueless of,
      and doesn't know, is that
      most EKists and even more
      non-ECKists have already
      responded in ways surpassing
      Klemp's experience with his
      non-lifethreatening injury.

      Prometheus

    • postekcon
      You are Ssoooo right. This question bothered me all my time in ekult! A lot of lip-service to service per-se, but the bottom line was, only service TO
      Message 2 of 9 , Sep 6, 2012
      • 0 Attachment
        You are Ssoooo right. This question bothered me all my time in ekult!

        A lot of lip-service to 'service' per-se, but the bottom line was, only 'service' TO ekult was recorded as 'service'?

        This is NOT the way the Universe works, service to the one; to the exclusion of the other!
        -Postekcon


        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer <jepfeiffer@...> wrote:
        >
        > What occurs to me is if the lem says we are here to serve others then why is it that as members you are only given duties that serves eckankar.  I never heard of any work going on in eckankar that benefited anything but eckankar.  Most activities are geared to drag in new members period..
        >
        > --- On Tue, 9/4/12, prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
        > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] HK's Broken-Hip and Fear of an Inoculation!
        > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Tuesday, September 4, 2012, 9:34 PM
        >
        >
        >
        >  
        >
        >
        >
        > Hello All,
        > I thought I'd bring
        > this back to the front
        > page----and share
        > Klemp's Wisdom Notes
        > from the 09/2012
        > The Mystic World.
        >
        > HK starts off by
        > saying that Eckankar
        > is for "lovers of life"
        > and that people need
        > not worry by thinking
        > it is a requirement
        > to sacrifice your life
        > to be a Co-worker
        > with the Mahanta.
        >
        > Klemp then poses
        > some "What If" questions.
        > Like, what if an astroid
        > hit causing devastation.
        > What would you do?
        >
        > "My words here are not
        > a foreshadowing of a
        > planetary disaster, BUT
        > a gentle reminder that
        > we exist to serve others."
        >
        > Well, there it is again.
        > Another pitch for service!
        > Klemp needs his volunteer
        > sales staff.
        >
        > Klemp even brings up what
        > happened to the Atlanteans
        > since they "turned from love
        > and service to a grab for
        > power and conquest." See
        > what happens when ECKists
        > don't volunteer! Plus, an
        > ECKist volunteering would
        > equate to how many non-
        > ECKists not volunteering?
        > Are HK's chelas mini-holding
        > tanks for the world's Karma?
        > However, HK does alleviate
        > some possible fears/concerns
        > by saying "a global disaster
        > need not happen." So, be of
        > service!
        >
        > "The mental energies of a
        > people turned toward evil
        > do rebound upon them. It
        > is called national karma."
        >
        > It would seem that this same
        > "rebound karma" would apply
        > to religions as well. It is called
        > religious karma.
        >
        > Here's something he says
        > regarding the negative forces
        > that applies to himself, too,
        > and yet he doesn't see the
        > irony in his words. "... so is
        > it any wonder that the few
        > command the many and are
        > apt to show a blatant disregard
        > for the wishes of the latter."
        > Sounds like Klemp is speaking
        > of himself. He's a tyrant who
        > can't and won't accept constructive
        > criticism. It's a One-Way street
        > and it runs his way! ECKists
        > aren't permitted to have differing
        > views... he's always right,
        > although, he claims not to
        > be perfect. That's a Catch-22!
        >
        > "BUT that is the heavy-handed
        > nature of power in the hands
        > of spiritual adolescents. So we
        > see more autocratic or tyrannical
        > rulers than good or wise ones
        > who rule according to the law
        > of divine love."
        >
        > See, I told you that Klemp can't
        > look into the mirror and see the
        > truth. He only sees his narcissistic
        > self!
        >
        > HK then talks to ECKists about
        > choosing between following:
        > "God's law or man's law. There
        > will be consequences.... for civil
        > disobedience... Again, God's law
        > or man's law? The issue for an
        > ECKist is freedom of conscience."
        >
        > Yet, look at what freedoms
        > ECKists have within ECKankar!
        > Not that many... it's a power
        > based hierarchy ruled locally
        > by the RESAs' Police Force.
        >
        > And, let's ponder whether
        > these ECK Laws are all that
        > "high." In fact they are all of
        > the Mental Plane and were,
        > thus, created by mankind.
        > Plus, "God" is actually the
        > KAL (according to Eckankar)
        > and is the Negative Force
        > in charge of the earth.
        >
        > ***************************
        > KLEMP ON INOCULATIONS:
        >
        > This next paragraph is a real
        > eye-opener! Did you know
        > that ECKists have a RELIGIOUS
        > ISSUE regarding inoculations?
        >
        > Klemp mentions, that while
        > in the hospital with his broken
        > hip, that he refused an inoculation.
        >
        > HK: "Yes, it is a religious issue
        > for us; the inoculation would
        > pose an unacceptable threat
        > to our health."
        >
        > It's kind of strange that Klemp
        > didn't mention which inoculation
        > was an issue. All inoculations
        > or just certain ones like the Flu
        > Shot, Pneumonia, or Shingles?
        > It would be nice to know.
        >
        > However, why is the Mahanta/
        > LEM (Klemp) fearful of an
        > inoculation? Is being a "lover
        > of life," also, being fearful
        > of death? It seems so! And,
        > Klemp is 70 years old and
        > showing his age.
        >
        > Anyway, Klemp says some
        > more things we've all, basically,
        > heard before and ends with:
        > "As always, the fires of karma
        > burn ever so hot and bright,
        > leaving each Soul ever more
        > spiritually refined." Klemp,
        > then, signs off with an
        > "Affectionately, Harold"
        >
        > So, is Klemp afraid of inoculations
        > because of possible karmic
        > retribution? Is his "Holding
        > Tank" full? If it was up to
        > Klemp he'd become a typhoid
        > Harry and spread his disease
        > everywhere. What about being
        > the cause for negativity?
        >
        > Also, I find it interesting that
        > Klemp ends by saying:
        > "Affectionately, Harold"
        >
        > I was looking at Twitchell's
        > old Wisdom Notes and he'd
        > end them with "My Love Is
        > Always With You" or "My
        > Love Protects You."
        >
        > Thus, when Klemp talks
        > about "the law of divine
        > love" it's strange that he
        > ends the article with,
        > "Affectionately."
        >
        > Klemp is the "heavy-handed
        > ruler and tyrant... and
        > spiritual adolescent"
        > that he talked about.
        >
        > This is why HK is fearful
        > of inoculations and hides
        > behind "religious beliefs."
        > He cannot be Detached
        > when he refuses inoculations
        > that others, like I, get. I'm
        > not fearful and I've read
        > the literature with the side-
        > effects. This is the main
        > reason he doesn't mention
        > which inoculation he refused.
        >
        > If it has to do with religious
        > beliefs... what law of God
        > justifies this fearful omission
        > that could, also, jeopardize
        > the health of others?
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
        > *********************
        > In the 09/2012 The
        > Mystic World, Klemp
        > tells of his hospital
        > experience with the
        > nursing staff.
        >
        > BTW- Notice HK's use
        > of BUT and reference
        > my previous post about
        > the use of IF, AND,
        > and especially BUT.
        >
        > I'll comment on the
        > excerpts:
        >
        > Klemp begins with his
        > story by making it seem
        > that his accident was
        > tied into being a channel
        > for the Holy Spirit.
        >
        > If asked, would you do
        > anything for the Holy
        > Spirit? And most would
        > respond, Yes, of course!
        >
        > "BUT what IF it meant
        > a complete change in
        > your way of doing nearly
        > everything?
        >
        > Notice the use of "BUT"
        > and "IF?" Two words EKists
        > are Not to use when
        > communicating with
        > one another.
        >
        > So, Klemp is setting us
        > up with his broken-hip
        > injury, caused by a fall
        > on "black ice," to be
        > something special and
        > spiritual.
        >
        > In fact, life happens!
        > Everyone goes through
        > injuries, pain, and suffering.
        > Klemp is making it seem
        > like his injury was because
        > he's what? Taking on the
        > Karma of his chelas and,
        > thus, he slips and falls?
        >
        > Or, maybe this "Slip & Fall"
        > is a Waking Dream telling
        > ECKists that Klemp has
        > Fallen from Grace! And,
        > the "Black Ice" is telling
        > us that HK's a "Black Magician"
        > like Darwin was! Darwin
        > did give the Rod of Power
        > to Klemp (the 12th initiation)
        > and initiated him with
        > several other Higher Initiations.
        > Plus, DG & HK met secretly
        > (twice, circa 1981-82)
        > in a Sound Proof Dark
        > Room where HK worked.
        > The Light and Sound was
        > kept out of this room
        > while they were preparing
        > for the transition. And,
        > it was Klemp's idea to
        > meet there, and Darwin
        > hesitated when learning
        > it had been previously
        > been converted to a
        > Sound Proof room and
        > was used as a Dark Room
        > by Klemp. However, Gross
        > overlooked his inner nudge
        > and paid the price!
        >
        > Anyway, Klemp mentions:
        > Faye, the RN; Holly, the
        > Physical Therapist; Lori,
        > the Occupational Therapist;
        > Dora, the West African
        > Nurse's Aide.
        >
        > Of course, Klemp claims
        > that everyone was talking
        > about the leader of Eckankar
        > falling on black ice and
        > breaking his hip.
        >
        > BTW- Klemp is pictured
        > at the 2012 EK Springtime
        > Seminar setting in a wheelchair.
        >
        > Anywho, HK talks about
        > Faye, nutrition, and states:
        > "BUT Faye, a member of
        > the Assembly of God church,
        > was determined to be the
        > complete professional. No
        > biases."
        >
        > Apparently Klemp feels the
        > need to give some background
        > on these people to make it
        > sound like he cares about
        > them. What Klemp fails to
        > see is that ECKist, or not,
        > we are all put into these
        > same scenarios or similar
        > situations and make small
        > talk and friends with those
        > who are taking care of us.
        >
        > Klemp, then, mentions that
        > some of Faye's co-workers
        > didn't understand their easy
        > "banter" and thought she was
        > being disrespectful since HK
        > was a preacher, of sorts, and
        > a cultist. "BUT I left her supervisor
        > a glowing commendation about
        > her healing laughter, care,
        > compassion, and understanding."
        >
        > Klemp says, "Do with me as
        > you please." Although, the
        > title of this front page article
        > is "Do With Me As You Will"
        > which is promoting HK's accident
        > as a Karmic sacrifice for his
        > chelas. Klemp's clueless about
        > the sufferings of others because
        > he has always lacked empathy!
        >
        > "Again, the EK had done with me
        > as It would, to better touch Souls
        > ready for the journey home to
        > God." Isn't "God" actually Kal,
        > whereas, Sugmad is different?
        > This is an official EK Pub so why
        > call Sugmad "God," unless, you
        > actually mean God!
        >
        > Next, Klemp mentions Holly
        > his physical therapist. She
        > mentions that, "Tomorrow at
        > this time our divorce will be
        > final." Klemp responds with,
        > "That's great!" Holly shrugs
        > her shoulders indifferently
        > and says, "I guess."
        >
        > Klemp shares his wisdom
        > of this while overlooking
        > the obvious hurt and doubts
        > that Holly is going through
        > by saying, "For her, the past
        > is the past; the present is
        > busy enough. Dear Holly."
        > To me this is a feeble attempt
        > at empathy. Plus, IMO, the
        > past isn't the past, especially,
        > when children are involved.
        >
        > Next comes Lori, Klemp's
        > occupational therapist.
        > He tells about her hunting
        > small game and recounts
        > a story she told that a cougar
        > once stalked her and her
        > husband. "BUT Lori does not
        > hunt cougar: it is a trophy
        > animal. She hunts for meat."
        > I guess that makes it okay
        > to kill.
        >
        > Now comes Dora, the West
        > African (Ghana) nurse's aide.
        > She brought ice for Harry's
        > hip and relayed messages
        > to the RN to bring "more
        > pain medication." "BUT Dora
        > did more, much more. When
        > the pain became nearly unbearable,
        > she laid a warm, encouraging
        > hand on my shoulder. Her
        > eyes, too, said, 'I understand."
        > Odd that Klemp was in so
        > much pain. One would think
        > that a 14th Initiate could HU
        > it away!
        >
        > Anyway, Joan came and picked
        > Harry up with some top ESC
        > staffers. And Klemp ends his
        > "tribute to a few of many
        > beautiful people in the healing
        > field" with these words:
        >
        > "And, Spirit of all living things,
        > I live to hallow Your name
        > among lost and wandering
        > Souls. So do with me as You
        > will."
        >
        > Klemp's con, along with his
        > delusion and narcissism, is
        > making this sound like
        > he's beseeching Spirit in
        > a prayer and giving thanks
        > that he can help "lost Souls"
        > by touching people with
        > his common everyday words
        > and presence... like everyone
        > else does in life. Except,
        > HK is more special than
        > other Souls because he's
        > the M/LEM of a false
        > teaching that pretends it's
        > "Spiritual."
        >
        > What's funny is that Klemp
        > thinks he's giving EKists
        > a pep talk and is showing
        > them how they should act
        > or respond to people if they
        > are in situations similar to
        > his as a result of Karma,
        > tests, and/or as channels
        > for Spirit.
        >
        > What Klemp is clueless of,
        > and doesn't know, is that
        > most EKists and even more
        > non-ECKists have already
        > responded in ways surpassing
        > Klemp's experience with his
        > non-lifethreatening injury.
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
      • prometheus_973
        Hello Postekcon and All, On another note is the topic about inoculations. I would really like to hear some comments and POVs concerning this. Klemp refused an
        Message 3 of 9 , Sep 6, 2012
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          Hello Postekcon and All,

          On another note is the topic
          about inoculations. I would
          really like to hear some comments
          and POVs concerning this.

          Klemp refused an (unknown)
          inoculation at the hospital and
          used the excuse that it was
          a "Religious Issue" when there
          is absolutely no Religious Policy
          concerning inoculations that
          ECKANKAR has ever stated:

          HK: "Yes, it is a religious issue
          for us; the inoculation would
          pose an unacceptable threat to
          our health."


          Plus, Why would the "Mahanta"
          (Klemp) be fearful of this inoculation?

          If he had an allergic reaction to
          this he could use that as the reason
          not to get it, but that's not the case.
          Klemp has a "Religious Issue" with
          getting this vaccine.

          Was it a High Dose Flu Shot (for
          those 65 and older), a pneumonia
          shot, or the shingles vaccine (age
          60 and older)? What was it that
          made this a "Religious Issue" when
          it's never been mentioned before
          by ECKANKAR or by Klemp?

          Now, I can see how it might be
          a personal choice because many
          people have fears of inoculations
          or of needles in general. The CDC
          website, or Walgreens, will give
          people info on prescription drugs
          and on inoculations.

          However, for Klemp to say that
          this was a "Religious Issue" is,
          in my opinion, an attempt to
          save face.

          Klemp can't really admit that
          he has a fear that a life threatening
          reaction might occur. Maybe
          one in a million people could
          be negatively affected depending
          upon their overall health, but
          that's a minute risk compared
          to the illness or malady that
          the inoculation is preventing.

          How would it look for the
          religious leader of this small
          local cult to be fearful of
          the negligible side-effects
          of this vaccine and imagine
          this story being told to others!

          But, for a religious leader
          to decline the inoculation
          by saying it's a "Religious
          Issue" to someone who
          doesn't know anything about
          Eckankar's dogma/belief
          is a more acceptable tactic,
          although, still somewhat
          strange.

          Imagine the effort that EK
          Vahanas are making in
          order to present Eckankar
          as a normal religion with
          no strange behaviors or
          sacrifices, etc. and saying
          "We're just like you" then,
          have Klemp pull this "Religious
          Issue" card on the nursing
          staff!

          One might think, What kind
          of an ignorant, fearful, and
          antiquated cult is this Eckankar?

          Since Klemp had surgery on
          his broken hip and hardware
          put in and maybe a blood
          supplied, anesthesia, various
          drugs and a lot of pain medication
          one has to wonder why he
          declined this vaccine and
          claimed that inoculations (in
          general?) were against his
          Religion!

          I doubt that Klemp found
          out which drugs and anesthesia
          would be used for his surgery
          and recovery process to manage
          pain etc. and researched their
          side-effects and dangers.

          By being the LEM/Mahanta
          he can't just say it's a "religious
          issue" for him and Joan.

          It has now become a "Religious
          Issue" for all ECKists! Except,
          I doubt that many ECKists
          noticed his comments or if
          they did they certainly can't
          ask too many, if any, questions
          about this "Religious Issue"
          and dogma that has never
          before been revealed. And,
          by not mentioning which
          "inoculation" it still hasn't
          been revealed!

          Prometheus
          p.s. To Postekcon:
          Yes, it seems that ECKists
          don't get credit for being
          "servants," i.e. volunteers,
          within their communities.
          It doesn't count toward
          that next initiation. RESAs
          notice these things and
          unless you're a high profile
          professional, i.e. lawyer,
          doctor, or architect, one
          must become an EK volunteer
          in order to advance with
          more and higher initiations.

          Plus, Klemp has slowed
          down the initiation process
          by tying them into physical
          requirements such as
          additional training and
          duties which are, of course,
          voluntary if you want to
          become a cleric, initiator,
          spiritual aide, or RESA.
          And, these titles are tied
          into higher initiations.
          [end]

          postekcon wrote:
          You are Ssoooo right. This question bothered me all my time in ekult!

          A lot of lip-service to 'service' per-se, but the bottom line was, only
          'service' TO ekult was recorded as 'service'?

          This is NOT the way the Universe works, service to the one; to the exclusion of
          the other!
          -Postekcon


          Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
          >
          What occurs to me is if the lem says we are here to serve others then why is
          it that as members you are only given duties that serves eckankar. I never
          heard of any work going on in eckankar that benefited anything but eckankar.
          Most activities are geared to drag in new members period..



          prometheus wrote:
          >
          > Hello All,
          > I thought I'd bring
          > this back to the front
          > page----and share
          > Klemp's Wisdom Notes
          > from the 09/2012
          > The Mystic World.
          >
          > HK starts off by
          > saying that Eckankar
          > is for "lovers of life"
          > and that people need
          > not worry by thinking
          > it is a requirement
          > to sacrifice your life
          > to be a Co-worker
          > with the Mahanta.
          >
          > Klemp then poses
          > some "What If" questions.
          > Like, what if an astroid
          > hit causing devastation.
          > What would you do?
          >
          > "My words here are not
          > a foreshadowing of a
          > planetary disaster, BUT
          > a gentle reminder that
          > we exist to serve others."
          >
          > Well, there it is again.
          > Another pitch for service!
          > Klemp needs his volunteer
          > sales staff.
          >
          > Klemp even brings up what
          > happened to the Atlanteans
          > since they "turned from love
          > and service to a grab for
          > power and conquest." See
          > what happens when ECKists
          > don't volunteer! Plus, an
          > ECKist volunteering would
          > equate to how many non-
          > ECKists not volunteering?
          > Are HK's chelas mini-holding
          > tanks for the world's Karma?
          > However, HK does alleviate
          > some possible fears/concerns
          > by saying "a global disaster
          > need not happen." So, be of
          > service!
          >
          > "The mental energies of a
          > people turned toward evil
          > do rebound upon them. It
          > is called national karma."
          >
          > It would seem that this same
          > "rebound karma" would apply
          > to religions as well. It is called
          > religious karma.
          >
          > Here's something he says
          > regarding the negative forces
          > that applies to himself, too,
          > and yet he doesn't see the
          > irony in his words. "... so is
          > it any wonder that the few
          > command the many and are
          > apt to show a blatant disregard
          > for the wishes of the latter."
          > Sounds like Klemp is speaking
          > of himself. He's a tyrant who
          > can't and won't accept constructive
          > criticism. It's a One-Way street
          > and it runs his way! ECKists
          > aren't permitted to have differing
          > views... he's always right,
          > although, he claims not to
          > be perfect. That's a Catch-22!
          >
          > "BUT that is the heavy-handed
          > nature of power in the hands
          > of spiritual adolescents. So we
          > see more autocratic or tyrannical
          > rulers than good or wise ones
          > who rule according to the law
          > of divine love."
          >
          > See, I told you that Klemp can't
          > look into the mirror and see the
          > truth. He only sees his narcissistic
          > self!
          >
          > HK then talks to ECKists about
          > choosing between following:
          > "God's law or man's law. There
          > will be consequences.... for civil
          > disobedience... Again, God's law
          > or man's law? The issue for an
          > ECKist is freedom of conscience."
          >
          > Yet, look at what freedoms
          > ECKists have within ECKankar!
          > Not that many... it's a power
          > based hierarchy ruled locally
          > by the RESAs' Police Force.
          >
          > And, let's ponder whether
          > these ECK Laws are all that
          > "high." In fact they are all of
          > the Mental Plane and were,
          > thus, created by mankind.
          > Plus, "God" is actually the
          > KAL (according to Eckankar)
          > and is the Negative Force
          > in charge of the earth.
          >
          > ***************************
          > KLEMP ON INOCULATIONS:
          >
          > This next paragraph is a real
          > eye-opener! Did you know
          > that ECKists have a RELIGIOUS
          > ISSUE regarding inoculations?
          >
          > Klemp mentions, that while
          > in the hospital with his broken
          > hip, that he refused an inoculation.
          >
          > HK: "Yes, it is a religious issue
          > for us; the inoculation would
          > pose an unacceptable threat
          > to our health."
          >
          > It's kind of strange that Klemp
          > didn't mention which inoculation
          > was an issue. All inoculations
          > or just certain ones like the Flu
          > Shot, Pneumonia, or Shingles?
          > It would be nice to know.
          >
          > However, why is the Mahanta/
          > LEM (Klemp) fearful of an
          > inoculation? Is being a "lover
          > of life," also, being fearful
          > of death? It seems so! And,
          > Klemp is 70 years old and
          > showing his age.
          >
          > Anyway, Klemp says some
          > more things we've all, basically,
          > heard before and ends with:
          > "As always, the fires of karma
          > burn ever so hot and bright,
          > leaving each Soul ever more
          > spiritually refined." Klemp,
          > then, signs off with an
          > "Affectionately, Harold"
          >
          > So, is Klemp afraid of inoculations
          > because of possible karmic
          > retribution? Is his "Holding
          > Tank" full? If it was up to
          > Klemp he'd become a typhoid
          > Harry and spread his disease
          > everywhere. What about being
          > the cause for negativity?
          >
          > Also, I find it interesting that
          > Klemp ends by saying:
          > "Affectionately, Harold"
          >
          > I was looking at Twitchell's
          > old Wisdom Notes and he'd
          > end them with "My Love Is
          > Always With You" or "My
          > Love Protects You."
          >
          > Thus, when Klemp talks
          > about "the law of divine
          > love" it's strange that he
          > ends the article with,
          > "Affectionately."
          >
          > Klemp is the "heavy-handed
          > ruler and tyrant... and
          > spiritual adolescent"
          > that he talked about.
          >
          > This is why HK is fearful
          > of inoculations and hides
          > behind "religious beliefs."
          > He cannot be Detached
          > when he refuses inoculations
          > that others, like I, get. I'm
          > not fearful and I've read
          > the literature with the side-
          > effects. This is the main
          > reason he doesn't mention
          > which inoculation he refused.
          >
          > If it has to do with religious
          > beliefs... what law of God
          > justifies this fearful omission
          > that could, also, jeopardize
          > the health of others?
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
          > *********************
          > In the 09/2012 The
          > Mystic World, Klemp
          > tells of his hospital
          > experience with the
          > nursing staff.
          >
          > BTW- Notice HK's use
          > of BUT and reference
          > my previous post about
          > the use of IF, AND,
          > and especially BUT.
          >
          > I'll comment on the
          > excerpts:
          >
          > Klemp begins with his
          > story by making it seem
          > that his accident was
          > tied into being a channel
          > for the Holy Spirit.
          >
          > If asked, would you do
          > anything for the Holy
          > Spirit? And most would
          > respond, Yes, of course!
          >
          > "BUT what IF it meant
          > a complete change in
          > your way of doing nearly
          > everything?
          >
          > Notice the use of "BUT"
          > and "IF?" Two words EKists
          > are Not to use when
          > communicating with
          > one another.
          >
          > So, Klemp is setting us
          > up with his broken-hip
          > injury, caused by a fall
          > on "black ice," to be
          > something special and
          > spiritual.
          >
          > In fact, life happens!
          > Everyone goes through
          > injuries, pain, and suffering.
          > Klemp is making it seem
          > like his injury was because
          > he's what? Taking on the
          > Karma of his chelas and,
          > thus, he slips and falls?
          >
          > Or, maybe this "Slip & Fall"
          > is a Waking Dream telling
          > ECKists that Klemp has
          > Fallen from Grace! And,
          > the "Black Ice" is telling
          > us that HK's a "Black Magician"
          > like Darwin was! Darwin
          > did give the Rod of Power
          > to Klemp (the 12th initiation)
          > and initiated him with
          > several other Higher Initiations.
          > Plus, DG & HK met secretly
          > (twice, circa 1981-82)
          > in a Sound Proof Dark
          > Room where HK worked.
          > The Light and Sound was
          > kept out of this room
          > while they were preparing
          > for the transition. And,
          > it was Klemp's idea to
          > meet there, and Darwin
          > hesitated when learning
          > it had been previously
          > been converted to a
          > Sound Proof room and
          > was used as a Dark Room
          > by Klemp. However, Gross
          > overlooked his inner nudge
          > and paid the price!
          >
          > Anyway, Klemp mentions:
          > Faye, the RN; Holly, the
          > Physical Therapist; Lori,
          > the Occupational Therapist;
          > Dora, the West African
          > Nurse's Aide.
          >
          > Of course, Klemp claims
          > that everyone was talking
          > about the leader of Eckankar
          > falling on black ice and
          > breaking his hip.
          >
          > BTW- Klemp is pictured
          > at the 2012 EK Springtime
          > Seminar setting in a wheelchair.
          >
          > Anywho, HK talks about
          > Faye, nutrition, and states:
          > "BUT Faye, a member of
          > the Assembly of God church,
          > was determined to be the
          > complete professional. No
          > biases."
          >
          > Apparently Klemp feels the
          > need to give some background
          > on these people to make it
          > sound like he cares about
          > them. What Klemp fails to
          > see is that ECKist, or not,
          > we are all put into these
          > same scenarios or similar
          > situations and make small
          > talk and friends with those
          > who are taking care of us.
          >
          > Klemp, then, mentions that
          > some of Faye's co-workers
          > didn't understand their easy
          > "banter" and thought she was
          > being disrespectful since HK
          > was a preacher, of sorts, and
          > a cultist. "BUT I left her supervisor
          > a glowing commendation about
          > her healing laughter, care,
          > compassion, and understanding."
          >
          > Klemp says, "Do with me as
          > you please." Although, the
          > title of this front page article
          > is "Do With Me As You Will"
          > which is promoting HK's accident
          > as a Karmic sacrifice for his
          > chelas. Klemp's clueless about
          > the sufferings of others because
          > he has always lacked empathy!
          >
          > "Again, the EK had done with me
          > as It would, to better touch Souls
          > ready for the journey home to
          > God." Isn't "God" actually Kal,
          > whereas, Sugmad is different?
          > This is an official EK Pub so why
          > call Sugmad "God," unless, you
          > actually mean God!
          >
          > Next, Klemp mentions Holly
          > his physical therapist. She
          > mentions that, "Tomorrow at
          > this time our divorce will be
          > final." Klemp responds with,
          > "That's great!" Holly shrugs
          > her shoulders indifferently
          > and says, "I guess."
          >
          > Klemp shares his wisdom
          > of this while overlooking
          > the obvious hurt and doubts
          > that Holly is going through
          > by saying, "For her, the past
          > is the past; the present is
          > busy enough. Dear Holly."
          > To me this is a feeble attempt
          > at empathy. Plus, IMO, the
          > past isn't the past, especially,
          > when children are involved.
          >
          > Next comes Lori, Klemp's
          > occupational therapist.
          > He tells about her hunting
          > small game and recounts
          > a story she told that a cougar
          > once stalked her and her
          > husband. "BUT Lori does not
          > hunt cougar: it is a trophy
          > animal. She hunts for meat."
          > I guess that makes it okay
          > to kill.
          >
          > Now comes Dora, the West
          > African (Ghana) nurse's aide.
          > She brought ice for Harry's
          > hip and relayed messages
          > to the RN to bring "more
          > pain medication." "BUT Dora
          > did more, much more. When
          > the pain became nearly unbearable,
          > she laid a warm, encouraging
          > hand on my shoulder. Her
          > eyes, too, said, 'I understand."
          > Odd that Klemp was in so
          > much pain. One would think
          > that a 14th Initiate could HU
          > it away!
          >
          > Anyway, Joan came and picked
          > Harry up with some top ESC
          > staffers. And Klemp ends his
          > "tribute to a few of many
          > beautiful people in the healing
          > field" with these words:
          >
          > "And, Spirit of all living things,
          > I live to hallow Your name
          > among lost and wandering
          > Souls. So do with me as You
          > will."
          >
          > Klemp's con, along with his
          > delusion and narcissism, is
          > making this sound like
          > he's beseeching Spirit in
          > a prayer and giving thanks
          > that he can help "lost Souls"
          > by touching people with
          > his common everyday words
          > and presence... like everyone
          > else does in life. Except,
          > HK is more special than
          > other Souls because he's
          > the M/LEM of a false
          > teaching that pretends it's
          > "Spiritual."
          >
          > What's funny is that Klemp
          > thinks he's giving EKists
          > a pep talk and is showing
          > them how they should act
          > or respond to people if they
          > are in situations similar to
          > his as a result of Karma,
          > tests, and/or as channels
          > for Spirit.
          >
          > What Klemp is clueless of,
          > and doesn't know, is that
          > most EKists and even more
          > non-ECKists have already
          > responded in ways surpassing
          > Klemp's experience with his
          > non-lifethreatening injury.
          >
          > Prometheus
        • postekcon
          There is always some fashion or fad circulating ekult communities. They are usually in health therapy, diet or self-help fields! Most of these fads (like the
          Message 4 of 9 , Sep 7, 2012
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            There is always some fashion or fad circulating ekult communities. They are usually in health therapy, diet or self-help fields! Most of these fads (like the inoculation story) are HK driven, interpreted from his talks and writings. When HK promotes authors such as Dale Carnegie, or some other theories, they became high profile fads for a while.

            I remember one odd fad in my ekult community, it was fashionable to discuss in class NOT taking pain medication for minor ailments etc. But then, as is now, no one discussed WHY!

            The subject of inoculation is a separate issue. One case in point, there is currently a program to eradicate polio in India via inoculation. In 2011, 47,000 new polio cases were logged as vaccine induced!
            -Postekcon


            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hello Postekcon and All,
            >
            > On another note is the topic
            > about inoculations. I would
            > really like to hear some comments
            > and POVs concerning this.
            >
            > Klemp refused an (unknown)
            > inoculation at the hospital and
            > used the excuse that it was
            > a "Religious Issue" when there
            > is absolutely no Religious Policy
            > concerning inoculations that
            > ECKANKAR has ever stated:
            >
            > HK: "Yes, it is a religious issue
            > for us; the inoculation would
            > pose an unacceptable threat to
            > our health."
            >
            >
            > Plus, Why would the "Mahanta"
            > (Klemp) be fearful of this inoculation?
            >
            > If he had an allergic reaction to
            > this he could use that as the reason
            > not to get it, but that's not the case.
            > Klemp has a "Religious Issue" with
            > getting this vaccine.
            >
            > Was it a High Dose Flu Shot (for
            > those 65 and older), a pneumonia
            > shot, or the shingles vaccine (age
            > 60 and older)? What was it that
            > made this a "Religious Issue" when
            > it's never been mentioned before
            > by ECKANKAR or by Klemp?
            >
            > Now, I can see how it might be
            > a personal choice because many
            > people have fears of inoculations
            > or of needles in general. The CDC
            > website, or Walgreens, will give
            > people info on prescription drugs
            > and on inoculations.
            >
            > However, for Klemp to say that
            > this was a "Religious Issue" is,
            > in my opinion, an attempt to
            > save face.
            >
            > Klemp can't really admit that
            > he has a fear that a life threatening
            > reaction might occur. Maybe
            > one in a million people could
            > be negatively affected depending
            > upon their overall health, but
            > that's a minute risk compared
            > to the illness or malady that
            > the inoculation is preventing.
            >
            > How would it look for the
            > religious leader of this small
            > local cult to be fearful of
            > the negligible side-effects
            > of this vaccine and imagine
            > this story being told to others!
            >
            > But, for a religious leader
            > to decline the inoculation
            > by saying it's a "Religious
            > Issue" to someone who
            > doesn't know anything about
            > Eckankar's dogma/belief
            > is a more acceptable tactic,
            > although, still somewhat
            > strange.
            >
            > Imagine the effort that EK
            > Vahanas are making in
            > order to present Eckankar
            > as a normal religion with
            > no strange behaviors or
            > sacrifices, etc. and saying
            > "We're just like you" then,
            > have Klemp pull this "Religious
            > Issue" card on the nursing
            > staff!
            >
            > One might think, What kind
            > of an ignorant, fearful, and
            > antiquated cult is this Eckankar?
            >
            > Since Klemp had surgery on
            > his broken hip and hardware
            > put in and maybe a blood
            > supplied, anesthesia, various
            > drugs and a lot of pain medication
            > one has to wonder why he
            > declined this vaccine and
            > claimed that inoculations (in
            > general?) were against his
            > Religion!
            >
            > I doubt that Klemp found
            > out which drugs and anesthesia
            > would be used for his surgery
            > and recovery process to manage
            > pain etc. and researched their
            > side-effects and dangers.
            >
            > By being the LEM/Mahanta
            > he can't just say it's a "religious
            > issue" for him and Joan.
            >
            > It has now become a "Religious
            > Issue" for all ECKists! Except,
            > I doubt that many ECKists
            > noticed his comments or if
            > they did they certainly can't
            > ask too many, if any, questions
            > about this "Religious Issue"
            > and dogma that has never
            > before been revealed. And,
            > by not mentioning which
            > "inoculation" it still hasn't
            > been revealed!
            >
            > Prometheus
            > p.s. To Postekcon:
            > Yes, it seems that ECKists
            > don't get credit for being
            > "servants," i.e. volunteers,
            > within their communities.
            > It doesn't count toward
            > that next initiation. RESAs
            > notice these things and
            > unless you're a high profile
            > professional, i.e. lawyer,
            > doctor, or architect, one
            > must become an EK volunteer
            > in order to advance with
            > more and higher initiations.
            >
            > Plus, Klemp has slowed
            > down the initiation process
            > by tying them into physical
            > requirements such as
            > additional training and
            > duties which are, of course,
            > voluntary if you want to
            > become a cleric, initiator,
            > spiritual aide, or RESA.
            > And, these titles are tied
            > into higher initiations.
            > [end]
            >
            > postekcon wrote:
            > You are Ssoooo right. This question bothered me all my time in ekult!
            >
            > A lot of lip-service to 'service' per-se, but the bottom line was, only
            > 'service' TO ekult was recorded as 'service'?
            >
            > This is NOT the way the Universe works, service to the one; to the exclusion of
            > the other!
            > -Postekcon
            >
            >
            > Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
            > >
            > What occurs to me is if the lem says we are here to serve others then why is
            > it that as members you are only given duties that serves eckankar. I never
            > heard of any work going on in eckankar that benefited anything but eckankar.
            > Most activities are geared to drag in new members period..
            >
            >
            >
            > prometheus wrote:
            > >
            > > Hello All,
            > > I thought I'd bring
            > > this back to the front
            > > page----and share
            > > Klemp's Wisdom Notes
            > > from the 09/2012
            > > The Mystic World.
            > >
            > > HK starts off by
            > > saying that Eckankar
            > > is for "lovers of life"
            > > and that people need
            > > not worry by thinking
            > > it is a requirement
            > > to sacrifice your life
            > > to be a Co-worker
            > > with the Mahanta.
            > >
            > > Klemp then poses
            > > some "What If" questions.
            > > Like, what if an astroid
            > > hit causing devastation.
            > > What would you do?
            > >
            > > "My words here are not
            > > a foreshadowing of a
            > > planetary disaster, BUT
            > > a gentle reminder that
            > > we exist to serve others."
            > >
            > > Well, there it is again.
            > > Another pitch for service!
            > > Klemp needs his volunteer
            > > sales staff.
            > >
            > > Klemp even brings up what
            > > happened to the Atlanteans
            > > since they "turned from love
            > > and service to a grab for
            > > power and conquest." See
            > > what happens when ECKists
            > > don't volunteer! Plus, an
            > > ECKist volunteering would
            > > equate to how many non-
            > > ECKists not volunteering?
            > > Are HK's chelas mini-holding
            > > tanks for the world's Karma?
            > > However, HK does alleviate
            > > some possible fears/concerns
            > > by saying "a global disaster
            > > need not happen." So, be of
            > > service!
            > >
            > > "The mental energies of a
            > > people turned toward evil
            > > do rebound upon them. It
            > > is called national karma."
            > >
            > > It would seem that this same
            > > "rebound karma" would apply
            > > to religions as well. It is called
            > > religious karma.
            > >
            > > Here's something he says
            > > regarding the negative forces
            > > that applies to himself, too,
            > > and yet he doesn't see the
            > > irony in his words. "... so is
            > > it any wonder that the few
            > > command the many and are
            > > apt to show a blatant disregard
            > > for the wishes of the latter."
            > > Sounds like Klemp is speaking
            > > of himself. He's a tyrant who
            > > can't and won't accept constructive
            > > criticism. It's a One-Way street
            > > and it runs his way! ECKists
            > > aren't permitted to have differing
            > > views... he's always right,
            > > although, he claims not to
            > > be perfect. That's a Catch-22!
            > >
            > > "BUT that is the heavy-handed
            > > nature of power in the hands
            > > of spiritual adolescents. So we
            > > see more autocratic or tyrannical
            > > rulers than good or wise ones
            > > who rule according to the law
            > > of divine love."
            > >
            > > See, I told you that Klemp can't
            > > look into the mirror and see the
            > > truth. He only sees his narcissistic
            > > self!
            > >
            > > HK then talks to ECKists about
            > > choosing between following:
            > > "God's law or man's law. There
            > > will be consequences.... for civil
            > > disobedience... Again, God's law
            > > or man's law? The issue for an
            > > ECKist is freedom of conscience."
            > >
            > > Yet, look at what freedoms
            > > ECKists have within ECKankar!
            > > Not that many... it's a power
            > > based hierarchy ruled locally
            > > by the RESAs' Police Force.
            > >
            > > And, let's ponder whether
            > > these ECK Laws are all that
            > > "high." In fact they are all of
            > > the Mental Plane and were,
            > > thus, created by mankind.
            > > Plus, "God" is actually the
            > > KAL (according to Eckankar)
            > > and is the Negative Force
            > > in charge of the earth.
            > >
            > > ***************************
            > > KLEMP ON INOCULATIONS:
            > >
            > > This next paragraph is a real
            > > eye-opener! Did you know
            > > that ECKists have a RELIGIOUS
            > > ISSUE regarding inoculations?
            > >
            > > Klemp mentions, that while
            > > in the hospital with his broken
            > > hip, that he refused an inoculation.
            > >
            > > HK: "Yes, it is a religious issue
            > > for us; the inoculation would
            > > pose an unacceptable threat
            > > to our health."
            > >
            > > It's kind of strange that Klemp
            > > didn't mention which inoculation
            > > was an issue. All inoculations
            > > or just certain ones like the Flu
            > > Shot, Pneumonia, or Shingles?
            > > It would be nice to know.
            > >
            > > However, why is the Mahanta/
            > > LEM (Klemp) fearful of an
            > > inoculation? Is being a "lover
            > > of life," also, being fearful
            > > of death? It seems so! And,
            > > Klemp is 70 years old and
            > > showing his age.
            > >
            > > Anyway, Klemp says some
            > > more things we've all, basically,
            > > heard before and ends with:
            > > "As always, the fires of karma
            > > burn ever so hot and bright,
            > > leaving each Soul ever more
            > > spiritually refined." Klemp,
            > > then, signs off with an
            > > "Affectionately, Harold"
            > >
            > > So, is Klemp afraid of inoculations
            > > because of possible karmic
            > > retribution? Is his "Holding
            > > Tank" full? If it was up to
            > > Klemp he'd become a typhoid
            > > Harry and spread his disease
            > > everywhere. What about being
            > > the cause for negativity?
            > >
            > > Also, I find it interesting that
            > > Klemp ends by saying:
            > > "Affectionately, Harold"
            > >
            > > I was looking at Twitchell's
            > > old Wisdom Notes and he'd
            > > end them with "My Love Is
            > > Always With You" or "My
            > > Love Protects You."
            > >
            > > Thus, when Klemp talks
            > > about "the law of divine
            > > love" it's strange that he
            > > ends the article with,
            > > "Affectionately."
            > >
            > > Klemp is the "heavy-handed
            > > ruler and tyrant... and
            > > spiritual adolescent"
            > > that he talked about.
            > >
            > > This is why HK is fearful
            > > of inoculations and hides
            > > behind "religious beliefs."
            > > He cannot be Detached
            > > when he refuses inoculations
            > > that others, like I, get. I'm
            > > not fearful and I've read
            > > the literature with the side-
            > > effects. This is the main
            > > reason he doesn't mention
            > > which inoculation he refused.
            > >
            > > If it has to do with religious
            > > beliefs... what law of God
            > > justifies this fearful omission
            > > that could, also, jeopardize
            > > the health of others?
            > >
            > > Prometheus
            > >
            > > *********************
            > > In the 09/2012 The
            > > Mystic World, Klemp
            > > tells of his hospital
            > > experience with the
            > > nursing staff.
            > >
            > > BTW- Notice HK's use
            > > of BUT and reference
            > > my previous post about
            > > the use of IF, AND,
            > > and especially BUT.
            > >
            > > I'll comment on the
            > > excerpts:
            > >
            > > Klemp begins with his
            > > story by making it seem
            > > that his accident was
            > > tied into being a channel
            > > for the Holy Spirit.
            > >
            > > If asked, would you do
            > > anything for the Holy
            > > Spirit? And most would
            > > respond, Yes, of course!
            > >
            > > "BUT what IF it meant
            > > a complete change in
            > > your way of doing nearly
            > > everything?
            > >
            > > Notice the use of "BUT"
            > > and "IF?" Two words EKists
            > > are Not to use when
            > > communicating with
            > > one another.
            > >
            > > So, Klemp is setting us
            > > up with his broken-hip
            > > injury, caused by a fall
            > > on "black ice," to be
            > > something special and
            > > spiritual.
            > >
            > > In fact, life happens!
            > > Everyone goes through
            > > injuries, pain, and suffering.
            > > Klemp is making it seem
            > > like his injury was because
            > > he's what? Taking on the
            > > Karma of his chelas and,
            > > thus, he slips and falls?
            > >
            > > Or, maybe this "Slip & Fall"
            > > is a Waking Dream telling
            > > ECKists that Klemp has
            > > Fallen from Grace! And,
            > > the "Black Ice" is telling
            > > us that HK's a "Black Magician"
            > > like Darwin was! Darwin
            > > did give the Rod of Power
            > > to Klemp (the 12th initiation)
            > > and initiated him with
            > > several other Higher Initiations.
            > > Plus, DG & HK met secretly
            > > (twice, circa 1981-82)
            > > in a Sound Proof Dark
            > > Room where HK worked.
            > > The Light and Sound was
            > > kept out of this room
            > > while they were preparing
            > > for the transition. And,
            > > it was Klemp's idea to
            > > meet there, and Darwin
            > > hesitated when learning
            > > it had been previously
            > > been converted to a
            > > Sound Proof room and
            > > was used as a Dark Room
            > > by Klemp. However, Gross
            > > overlooked his inner nudge
            > > and paid the price!
            > >
            > > Anyway, Klemp mentions:
            > > Faye, the RN; Holly, the
            > > Physical Therapist; Lori,
            > > the Occupational Therapist;
            > > Dora, the West African
            > > Nurse's Aide.
            > >
            > > Of course, Klemp claims
            > > that everyone was talking
            > > about the leader of Eckankar
            > > falling on black ice and
            > > breaking his hip.
            > >
            > > BTW- Klemp is pictured
            > > at the 2012 EK Springtime
            > > Seminar setting in a wheelchair.
            > >
            > > Anywho, HK talks about
            > > Faye, nutrition, and states:
            > > "BUT Faye, a member of
            > > the Assembly of God church,
            > > was determined to be the
            > > complete professional. No
            > > biases."
            > >
            > > Apparently Klemp feels the
            > > need to give some background
            > > on these people to make it
            > > sound like he cares about
            > > them. What Klemp fails to
            > > see is that ECKist, or not,
            > > we are all put into these
            > > same scenarios or similar
            > > situations and make small
            > > talk and friends with those
            > > who are taking care of us.
            > >
            > > Klemp, then, mentions that
            > > some of Faye's co-workers
            > > didn't understand their easy
            > > "banter" and thought she was
            > > being disrespectful since HK
            > > was a preacher, of sorts, and
            > > a cultist. "BUT I left her supervisor
            > > a glowing commendation about
            > > her healing laughter, care,
            > > compassion, and understanding."
            > >
            > > Klemp says, "Do with me as
            > > you please." Although, the
            > > title of this front page article
            > > is "Do With Me As You Will"
            > > which is promoting HK's accident
            > > as a Karmic sacrifice for his
            > > chelas. Klemp's clueless about
            > > the sufferings of others because
            > > he has always lacked empathy!
            > >
            > > "Again, the EK had done with me
            > > as It would, to better touch Souls
            > > ready for the journey home to
            > > God." Isn't "God" actually Kal,
            > > whereas, Sugmad is different?
            > > This is an official EK Pub so why
            > > call Sugmad "God," unless, you
            > > actually mean God!
            > >
            > > Next, Klemp mentions Holly
            > > his physical therapist. She
            > > mentions that, "Tomorrow at
            > > this time our divorce will be
            > > final." Klemp responds with,
            > > "That's great!" Holly shrugs
            > > her shoulders indifferently
            > > and says, "I guess."
            > >
            > > Klemp shares his wisdom
            > > of this while overlooking
            > > the obvious hurt and doubts
            > > that Holly is going through
            > > by saying, "For her, the past
            > > is the past; the present is
            > > busy enough. Dear Holly."
            > > To me this is a feeble attempt
            > > at empathy. Plus, IMO, the
            > > past isn't the past, especially,
            > > when children are involved.
            > >
            > > Next comes Lori, Klemp's
            > > occupational therapist.
            > > He tells about her hunting
            > > small game and recounts
            > > a story she told that a cougar
            > > once stalked her and her
            > > husband. "BUT Lori does not
            > > hunt cougar: it is a trophy
            > > animal. She hunts for meat."
            > > I guess that makes it okay
            > > to kill.
            > >
            > > Now comes Dora, the West
            > > African (Ghana) nurse's aide.
            > > She brought ice for Harry's
            > > hip and relayed messages
            > > to the RN to bring "more
            > > pain medication." "BUT Dora
            > > did more, much more. When
            > > the pain became nearly unbearable,
            > > she laid a warm, encouraging
            > > hand on my shoulder. Her
            > > eyes, too, said, 'I understand."
            > > Odd that Klemp was in so
            > > much pain. One would think
            > > that a 14th Initiate could HU
            > > it away!
            > >
            > > Anyway, Joan came and picked
            > > Harry up with some top ESC
            > > staffers. And Klemp ends his
            > > "tribute to a few of many
            > > beautiful people in the healing
            > > field" with these words:
            > >
            > > "And, Spirit of all living things,
            > > I live to hallow Your name
            > > among lost and wandering
            > > Souls. So do with me as You
            > > will."
            > >
            > > Klemp's con, along with his
            > > delusion and narcissism, is
            > > making this sound like
            > > he's beseeching Spirit in
            > > a prayer and giving thanks
            > > that he can help "lost Souls"
            > > by touching people with
            > > his common everyday words
            > > and presence... like everyone
            > > else does in life. Except,
            > > HK is more special than
            > > other Souls because he's
            > > the M/LEM of a false
            > > teaching that pretends it's
            > > "Spiritual."
            > >
            > > What's funny is that Klemp
            > > thinks he's giving EKists
            > > a pep talk and is showing
            > > them how they should act
            > > or respond to people if they
            > > are in situations similar to
            > > his as a result of Karma,
            > > tests, and/or as channels
            > > for Spirit.
            > >
            > > What Klemp is clueless of,
            > > and doesn't know, is that
            > > most EKists and even more
            > > non-ECKists have already
            > > responded in ways surpassing
            > > Klemp's experience with his
            > > non-lifethreatening injury.
            > >
            > > Prometheus
            >
          • prometheus_973
            Hello Postekcon and All, Here s what I found on the polio vaccines: How is the vaccine administered? IPV is given as a shot in the arm or leg. OPV is given as
            Message 5 of 9 , Sep 7, 2012
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              Hello Postekcon and All,
              Here's what I found on
              the polio vaccines:

              "How is the vaccine administered?

              IPV is given as a shot in the arm or leg.
              OPV is given as an oral liquid.

              OPV is no longer used in the United States,
              but is still given in other parts of the world
              where polio is common.

              Why was the U.S. polio immunization
              recommendation changed from OPV
              to IPV?

              The change to an all-IPV schedule
              in the United States occurred because
              the Few Cases of polio that were
              occurring (8-10 per year) were
              caused by the OPV vaccine itself
              and not the wild virus.

              The change to IPV protects
              individuals against paralytic polio,
              while eliminating the small chance
              (about Once in Every 2.4 Million Doses)
              of Actually Contracting Polio From
              The Live Oral Vaccine.

              OPV is better at stopping the spread
              of the virus to others, but now that
              wild (natural) polio has been eliminated
              from the Western Hemisphere, this
              advantage is no longer a consideration
              in the United States.

              IPV has been used exclusively
              in the United States since 2000.
              However, in other countries
              where wild polio is still a threat,
              OPV is still used."

              So, whether urban legend, an
              old wives tales, superstition
              misinformation or mitigating
              circumstances the numbers
              don't match. For instance, the
              above information states that
              Once out of 2.4 Million Doses
              will a person contract polio
              from the Live Oral Vaccine.

              Therefore, 47,000 cases could
              not have been vaccine induced,
              unless, the vaccine was stored
              improperly and became contaminated
              and/or inert.

              Anyhow, the point I was making
              is that Eckankar has No Policy/Rule
              stating that vaccines Should Not
              be taken because it would "pose
              an unacceptable threat to our
              health." Therefore how is this
              a "Religious Issue" for ECKists
              when it's never been documented
              as an issue?

              Does this mean that EK children
              should not be vaccinated due
              to Religious Rules/Issues?

              When did Eckankar adopt anti-drug
              policies like Christian Science?

              Besides, these ad hoc policies
              that Klemp seems to be creating
              are arbitrary. Klemp never looked
              into the dangers or side-effects
              of the drugs that his anesthesiologist
              used.

              Plus. Klemp was taking pain medication
              and asked "Dora" (the nurse's aide)
              to relay his request for more "when
              the pain became nearly unbearable."
              If anyone has taken strong prescription
              pain medication and reads the description
              and side-effects they will see that
              there can be many risks to one's
              health.

              What, according to Klemp, makes
              one drug acceptable while others
              "pose an unacceptable threat to
              our health?"

              And, I'll bet Klemp was prescribed
              some anti-inflamatory drugs as well,
              and these can be dangerous to take
              too.

              However, when it comes to some
              unknown inoculation he balks and
              plays the religious card as an excuse
              for his ignorance and fear.

              Prometheus






              "postekcon" wrote:
              >
              >
              > There is always some fashion or fad circulating ekult communities. They are usually in health therapy, diet or self-help fields! Most of these fads (like the inoculation story) are HK driven, interpreted from his talks and writings. When HK promotes authors such as Dale Carnegie, or some other theories, they became high profile fads for a while.
              >
              > I remember one odd fad in my ekult community, it was fashionable to discuss in class NOT taking pain medication for minor ailments etc. But then, as is now, no one discussed WHY!
              >
              > The subject of inoculation is a separate issue. One case in point, there is currently a program to eradicate polio in India via inoculation. In 2011, 47,000 new polio cases were logged as vaccine induced!
              > -Postekcon
              >
              >
              "prometheus_wrote:
              > >
              > > Hello Postekcon and All,
              > >
              > > On another note is the topic
              > > about inoculations. I would
              > > really like to hear some comments
              > > and POVs concerning this.
              > >
              > > Klemp refused an (unknown)
              > > inoculation at the hospital and
              > > used the excuse that it was
              > > a "Religious Issue" when there
              > > is absolutely no Religious Policy
              > > concerning inoculations that
              > > ECKANKAR has ever stated:
              > >
              > > HK: "Yes, it is a religious issue
              > > for us; the inoculation would
              > > pose an unacceptable threat to
              > > our health."
              > >
              > >
              > > Plus, Why would the "Mahanta"
              > > (Klemp) be fearful of this inoculation?
              > >
              > > If he had an allergic reaction to
              > > this he could use that as the reason
              > > not to get it, but that's not the case.
              > > Klemp has a "Religious Issue" with
              > > getting this vaccine.
              > >
              > > Was it a High Dose Flu Shot (for
              > > those 65 and older), a pneumonia
              > > shot, or the shingles vaccine (age
              > > 60 and older)? What was it that
              > > made this a "Religious Issue" when
              > > it's never been mentioned before
              > > by ECKANKAR or by Klemp?
              > >
              > > Now, I can see how it might be
              > > a personal choice because many
              > > people have fears of inoculations
              > > or of needles in general. The CDC
              > > website, or Walgreens, will give
              > > people info on prescription drugs
              > > and on inoculations.
              > >
              > > However, for Klemp to say that
              > > this was a "Religious Issue" is,
              > > in my opinion, an attempt to
              > > save face.
              > >
              > > Klemp can't really admit that
              > > he has a fear that a life threatening
              > > reaction might occur. Maybe
              > > one in a million people could
              > > be negatively affected depending
              > > upon their overall health, but
              > > that's a minute risk compared
              > > to the illness or malady that
              > > the inoculation is preventing.
              > >
              > > How would it look for the
              > > religious leader of this small
              > > local cult to be fearful of
              > > the negligible side-effects
              > > of this vaccine and imagine
              > > this story being told to others!
              > >
              > > But, for a religious leader
              > > to decline the inoculation
              > > by saying it's a "Religious
              > > Issue" to someone who
              > > doesn't know anything about
              > > Eckankar's dogma/belief
              > > is a more acceptable tactic,
              > > although, still somewhat
              > > strange.
              > >
              > > Imagine the effort that EK
              > > Vahanas are making in
              > > order to present Eckankar
              > > as a normal religion with
              > > no strange behaviors or
              > > sacrifices, etc. and saying
              > > "We're just like you" then,
              > > have Klemp pull this "Religious
              > > Issue" card on the nursing
              > > staff!
              > >
              > > One might think, What kind
              > > of an ignorant, fearful, and
              > > antiquated cult is this Eckankar?
              > >
              > > Since Klemp had surgery on
              > > his broken hip and hardware
              > > put in and maybe a blood
              > > supplied, anesthesia, various
              > > drugs and a lot of pain medication
              > > one has to wonder why he
              > > declined this vaccine and
              > > claimed that inoculations (in
              > > general?) were against his
              > > Religion!
              > >
              > > I doubt that Klemp found
              > > out which drugs and anesthesia
              > > would be used for his surgery
              > > and recovery process to manage
              > > pain etc. and researched their
              > > side-effects and dangers.
              > >
              > > By being the LEM/Mahanta
              > > he can't just say it's a "religious
              > > issue" for him and Joan.
              > >
              > > It has now become a "Religious
              > > Issue" for all ECKists! Except,
              > > I doubt that many ECKists
              > > noticed his comments or if
              > > they did they certainly can't
              > > ask too many, if any, questions
              > > about this "Religious Issue"
              > > and dogma that has never
              > > before been revealed. And,
              > > by not mentioning which
              > > "inoculation" it still hasn't
              > > been revealed!
              > >
              > > Prometheus
              > > p.s. To Postekcon:
              > > Yes, it seems that ECKists
              > > don't get credit for being
              > > "servants," i.e. volunteers,
              > > within their communities.
              > > It doesn't count toward
              > > that next initiation. RESAs
              > > notice these things and
              > > unless you're a high profile
              > > professional, i.e. lawyer,
              > > doctor, or architect, one
              > > must become an EK volunteer
              > > in order to advance with
              > > more and higher initiations.
              > >
              > > Plus, Klemp has slowed
              > > down the initiation process
              > > by tying them into physical
              > > requirements such as
              > > additional training and
              > > duties which are, of course,
              > > voluntary if you want to
              > > become a cleric, initiator,
              > > spiritual aide, or RESA.
              > > And, these titles are tied
              > > into higher initiations.
              > > [end]
              > >
              > > postekcon wrote:
              > > You are Ssoooo right. This question bothered me all my time in ekult!
              > >
              > > A lot of lip-service to 'service' per-se, but the bottom line was, only
              > > 'service' TO ekult was recorded as 'service'?
              > >
              > > This is NOT the way the Universe works, service to the one; to the exclusion of
              > > the other!
              > > -Postekcon
              > >
              > >
              > > Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
              > > >
              > > What occurs to me is if the lem says we are here to serve others then why is
              > > it that as members you are only given duties that serves eckankar. I never
              > > heard of any work going on in eckankar that benefited anything but eckankar.
              > > Most activities are geared to drag in new members period..
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > prometheus wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Hello All,
              > > > I thought I'd bring
              > > > this back to the front
              > > > page----and share
              > > > Klemp's Wisdom Notes
              > > > from the 09/2012
              > > > The Mystic World.
              > > >
              > > > HK starts off by
              > > > saying that Eckankar
              > > > is for "lovers of life"
              > > > and that people need
              > > > not worry by thinking
              > > > it is a requirement
              > > > to sacrifice your life
              > > > to be a Co-worker
              > > > with the Mahanta.
              > > >
              > > > Klemp then poses
              > > > some "What If" questions.
              > > > Like, what if an astroid
              > > > hit causing devastation.
              > > > What would you do?
              > > >
              > > > "My words here are not
              > > > a foreshadowing of a
              > > > planetary disaster, BUT
              > > > a gentle reminder that
              > > > we exist to serve others."
              > > >
              > > > Well, there it is again.
              > > > Another pitch for service!
              > > > Klemp needs his volunteer
              > > > sales staff.
              > > >
              > > > Klemp even brings up what
              > > > happened to the Atlanteans
              > > > since they "turned from love
              > > > and service to a grab for
              > > > power and conquest." See
              > > > what happens when ECKists
              > > > don't volunteer! Plus, an
              > > > ECKist volunteering would
              > > > equate to how many non-
              > > > ECKists not volunteering?
              > > > Are HK's chelas mini-holding
              > > > tanks for the world's Karma?
              > > > However, HK does alleviate
              > > > some possible fears/concerns
              > > > by saying "a global disaster
              > > > need not happen." So, be of
              > > > service!
              > > >
              > > > "The mental energies of a
              > > > people turned toward evil
              > > > do rebound upon them. It
              > > > is called national karma."
              > > >
              > > > It would seem that this same
              > > > "rebound karma" would apply
              > > > to religions as well. It is called
              > > > religious karma.
              > > >
              > > > Here's something he says
              > > > regarding the negative forces
              > > > that applies to himself, too,
              > > > and yet he doesn't see the
              > > > irony in his words. "... so is
              > > > it any wonder that the few
              > > > command the many and are
              > > > apt to show a blatant disregard
              > > > for the wishes of the latter."
              > > > Sounds like Klemp is speaking
              > > > of himself. He's a tyrant who
              > > > can't and won't accept constructive
              > > > criticism. It's a One-Way street
              > > > and it runs his way! ECKists
              > > > aren't permitted to have differing
              > > > views... he's always right,
              > > > although, he claims not to
              > > > be perfect. That's a Catch-22!
              > > >
              > > > "BUT that is the heavy-handed
              > > > nature of power in the hands
              > > > of spiritual adolescents. So we
              > > > see more autocratic or tyrannical
              > > > rulers than good or wise ones
              > > > who rule according to the law
              > > > of divine love."
              > > >
              > > > See, I told you that Klemp can't
              > > > look into the mirror and see the
              > > > truth. He only sees his narcissistic
              > > > self!
              > > >
              > > > HK then talks to ECKists about
              > > > choosing between following:
              > > > "God's law or man's law. There
              > > > will be consequences.... for civil
              > > > disobedience... Again, God's law
              > > > or man's law? The issue for an
              > > > ECKist is freedom of conscience."
              > > >
              > > > Yet, look at what freedoms
              > > > ECKists have within ECKankar!
              > > > Not that many... it's a power
              > > > based hierarchy ruled locally
              > > > by the RESAs' Police Force.
              > > >
              > > > And, let's ponder whether
              > > > these ECK Laws are all that
              > > > "high." In fact they are all of
              > > > the Mental Plane and were,
              > > > thus, created by mankind.
              > > > Plus, "God" is actually the
              > > > KAL (according to Eckankar)
              > > > and is the Negative Force
              > > > in charge of the earth.
              > > >
              > > > ***************************
              > > > KLEMP ON INOCULATIONS:
              > > >
              > > > This next paragraph is a real
              > > > eye-opener! Did you know
              > > > that ECKists have a RELIGIOUS
              > > > ISSUE regarding inoculations?
              > > >
              > > > Klemp mentions, that while
              > > > in the hospital with his broken
              > > > hip, that he refused an inoculation.
              > > >
              > > > HK: "Yes, it is a religious issue
              > > > for us; the inoculation would
              > > > pose an unacceptable threat
              > > > to our health."
              > > >
              > > > It's kind of strange that Klemp
              > > > didn't mention which inoculation
              > > > was an issue. All inoculations
              > > > or just certain ones like the Flu
              > > > Shot, Pneumonia, or Shingles?
              > > > It would be nice to know.
              > > >
              > > > However, why is the Mahanta/
              > > > LEM (Klemp) fearful of an
              > > > inoculation? Is being a "lover
              > > > of life," also, being fearful
              > > > of death? It seems so! And,
              > > > Klemp is 70 years old and
              > > > showing his age.
              > > >
              > > > Anyway, Klemp says some
              > > > more things we've all, basically,
              > > > heard before and ends with:
              > > > "As always, the fires of karma
              > > > burn ever so hot and bright,
              > > > leaving each Soul ever more
              > > > spiritually refined." Klemp,
              > > > then, signs off with an
              > > > "Affectionately, Harold"
              > > >
              > > > So, is Klemp afraid of inoculations
              > > > because of possible karmic
              > > > retribution? Is his "Holding
              > > > Tank" full? If it was up to
              > > > Klemp he'd become a typhoid
              > > > Harry and spread his disease
              > > > everywhere. What about being
              > > > the cause for negativity?
              > > >
              > > > Also, I find it interesting that
              > > > Klemp ends by saying:
              > > > "Affectionately, Harold"
              > > >
              > > > I was looking at Twitchell's
              > > > old Wisdom Notes and he'd
              > > > end them with "My Love Is
              > > > Always With You" or "My
              > > > Love Protects You."
              > > >
              > > > Thus, when Klemp talks
              > > > about "the law of divine
              > > > love" it's strange that he
              > > > ends the article with,
              > > > "Affectionately."
              > > >
              > > > Klemp is the "heavy-handed
              > > > ruler and tyrant... and
              > > > spiritual adolescent"
              > > > that he talked about.
              > > >
              > > > This is why HK is fearful
              > > > of inoculations and hides
              > > > behind "religious beliefs."
              > > > He cannot be Detached
              > > > when he refuses inoculations
              > > > that others, like I, get. I'm
              > > > not fearful and I've read
              > > > the literature with the side-
              > > > effects. This is the main
              > > > reason he doesn't mention
              > > > which inoculation he refused.
              > > >
              > > > If it has to do with religious
              > > > beliefs... what law of God
              > > > justifies this fearful omission
              > > > that could, also, jeopardize
              > > > the health of others?
              > > >
              > > > Prometheus
              > > >
              > > > *********************
              > > > In the 09/2012 The
              > > > Mystic World, Klemp
              > > > tells of his hospital
              > > > experience with the
              > > > nursing staff.
              > > >
              > > > BTW- Notice HK's use
              > > > of BUT and reference
              > > > my previous post about
              > > > the use of IF, AND,
              > > > and especially BUT.
              > > >
              > > > I'll comment on the
              > > > excerpts:
              > > >
              > > > Klemp begins with his
              > > > story by making it seem
              > > > that his accident was
              > > > tied into being a channel
              > > > for the Holy Spirit.
              > > >
              > > > If asked, would you do
              > > > anything for the Holy
              > > > Spirit? And most would
              > > > respond, Yes, of course!
              > > >
              > > > "BUT what IF it meant
              > > > a complete change in
              > > > your way of doing nearly
              > > > everything?
              > > >
              > > > Notice the use of "BUT"
              > > > and "IF?" Two words EKists
              > > > are Not to use when
              > > > communicating with
              > > > one another.
              > > >
              > > > So, Klemp is setting us
              > > > up with his broken-hip
              > > > injury, caused by a fall
              > > > on "black ice," to be
              > > > something special and
              > > > spiritual.
              > > >
              > > > In fact, life happens!
              > > > Everyone goes through
              > > > injuries, pain, and suffering.
              > > > Klemp is making it seem
              > > > like his injury was because
              > > > he's what? Taking on the
              > > > Karma of his chelas and,
              > > > thus, he slips and falls?
              > > >
              > > > Or, maybe this "Slip & Fall"
              > > > is a Waking Dream telling
              > > > ECKists that Klemp has
              > > > Fallen from Grace! And,
              > > > the "Black Ice" is telling
              > > > us that HK's a "Black Magician"
              > > > like Darwin was! Darwin
              > > > did give the Rod of Power
              > > > to Klemp (the 12th initiation)
              > > > and initiated him with
              > > > several other Higher Initiations.
              > > > Plus, DG & HK met secretly
              > > > (twice, circa 1981-82)
              > > > in a Sound Proof Dark
              > > > Room where HK worked.
              > > > The Light and Sound was
              > > > kept out of this room
              > > > while they were preparing
              > > > for the transition. And,
              > > > it was Klemp's idea to
              > > > meet there, and Darwin
              > > > hesitated when learning
              > > > it had been previously
              > > > been converted to a
              > > > Sound Proof room and
              > > > was used as a Dark Room
              > > > by Klemp. However, Gross
              > > > overlooked his inner nudge
              > > > and paid the price!
              > > >
              > > > Anyway, Klemp mentions:
              > > > Faye, the RN; Holly, the
              > > > Physical Therapist; Lori,
              > > > the Occupational Therapist;
              > > > Dora, the West African
              > > > Nurse's Aide.
              > > >
              > > > Of course, Klemp claims
              > > > that everyone was talking
              > > > about the leader of Eckankar
              > > > falling on black ice and
              > > > breaking his hip.
              > > >
              > > > BTW- Klemp is pictured
              > > > at the 2012 EK Springtime
              > > > Seminar setting in a wheelchair.
              > > >
              > > > Anywho, HK talks about
              > > > Faye, nutrition, and states:
              > > > "BUT Faye, a member of
              > > > the Assembly of God church,
              > > > was determined to be the
              > > > complete professional. No
              > > > biases."
              > > >
              > > > Apparently Klemp feels the
              > > > need to give some background
              > > > on these people to make it
              > > > sound like he cares about
              > > > them. What Klemp fails to
              > > > see is that ECKist, or not,
              > > > we are all put into these
              > > > same scenarios or similar
              > > > situations and make small
              > > > talk and friends with those
              > > > who are taking care of us.
              > > >
              > > > Klemp, then, mentions that
              > > > some of Faye's co-workers
              > > > didn't understand their easy
              > > > "banter" and thought she was
              > > > being disrespectful since HK
              > > > was a preacher, of sorts, and
              > > > a cultist. "BUT I left her supervisor
              > > > a glowing commendation about
              > > > her healing laughter, care,
              > > > compassion, and understanding."
              > > >
              > > > Klemp says, "Do with me as
              > > > you please." Although, the
              > > > title of this front page article
              > > > is "Do With Me As You Will"
              > > > which is promoting HK's accident
              > > > as a Karmic sacrifice for his
              > > > chelas. Klemp's clueless about
              > > > the sufferings of others because
              > > > he has always lacked empathy!
              > > >
              > > > "Again, the EK had done with me
              > > > as It would, to better touch Souls
              > > > ready for the journey home to
              > > > God." Isn't "God" actually Kal,
              > > > whereas, Sugmad is different?
              > > > This is an official EK Pub so why
              > > > call Sugmad "God," unless, you
              > > > actually mean God!
              > > >
              > > > Next, Klemp mentions Holly
              > > > his physical therapist. She
              > > > mentions that, "Tomorrow at
              > > > this time our divorce will be
              > > > final." Klemp responds with,
              > > > "That's great!" Holly shrugs
              > > > her shoulders indifferently
              > > > and says, "I guess."
              > > >
              > > > Klemp shares his wisdom
              > > > of this while overlooking
              > > > the obvious hurt and doubts
              > > > that Holly is going through
              > > > by saying, "For her, the past
              > > > is the past; the present is
              > > > busy enough. Dear Holly."
              > > > To me this is a feeble attempt
              > > > at empathy. Plus, IMO, the
              > > > past isn't the past, especially,
              > > > when children are involved.
              > > >
              > > > Next comes Lori, Klemp's
              > > > occupational therapist.
              > > > He tells about her hunting
              > > > small game and recounts
              > > > a story she told that a cougar
              > > > once stalked her and her
              > > > husband. "BUT Lori does not
              > > > hunt cougar: it is a trophy
              > > > animal. She hunts for meat."
              > > > I guess that makes it okay
              > > > to kill.
              > > >
              > > > Now comes Dora, the West
              > > > African (Ghana) nurse's aide.
              > > > She brought ice for Harry's
              > > > hip and relayed messages
              > > > to the RN to bring "more
              > > > pain medication." "BUT Dora
              > > > did more, much more. When
              > > > the pain became nearly unbearable,
              > > > she laid a warm, encouraging
              > > > hand on my shoulder. Her
              > > > eyes, too, said, 'I understand."
              > > > Odd that Klemp was in so
              > > > much pain. One would think
              > > > that a 14th Initiate could HU
              > > > it away!
              > > >
              > > > Anyway, Joan came and picked
              > > > Harry up with some top ESC
              > > > staffers. And Klemp ends his
              > > > "tribute to a few of many
              > > > beautiful people in the healing
              > > > field" with these words:
              > > >
              > > > "And, Spirit of all living things,
              > > > I live to hallow Your name
              > > > among lost and wandering
              > > > Souls. So do with me as You
              > > > will."
              > > >
              > > > Klemp's con, along with his
              > > > delusion and narcissism, is
              > > > making this sound like
              > > > he's beseeching Spirit in
              > > > a prayer and giving thanks
              > > > that he can help "lost Souls"
              > > > by touching people with
              > > > his common everyday words
              > > > and presence... like everyone
              > > > else does in life. Except,
              > > > HK is more special than
              > > > other Souls because he's
              > > > the M/LEM of a false
              > > > teaching that pretends it's
              > > > "Spiritual."
              > > >
              > > > What's funny is that Klemp
              > > > thinks he's giving EKists
              > > > a pep talk and is showing
              > > > them how they should act
              > > > or respond to people if they
              > > > are in situations similar to
              > > > his as a result of Karma,
              > > > tests, and/or as channels
              > > > for Spirit.
              > > >
              > > > What Klemp is clueless of,
              > > > and doesn't know, is that
              > > > most EKists and even more
              > > > non-ECKists have already
              > > > responded in ways surpassing
              > > > Klemp's experience with his
              > > > non-lifethreatening injury.
              > > >
              > > > Prometheus
              > >
              >
            • Non
              Ha, Klemp and Science is the ultimate oxymoron anyway. Any of his Hypotheses could easily be tested with the Scientific Method. He could even make a quick
              Message 6 of 9 , Sep 8, 2012
              • 0 Attachment
                Ha, Klemp and Science is the ultimate oxymoron anyway. Any of his Hypotheses could easily be tested with the Scientific Method. He could even make a quick million $'s by contacting James Randy, the Skeptic. I wonder if Klemp also believes that female ekists can shut that whole pregnancy thing down if they are "legitimately" raped. LOL

                Interesting that many Scientists have done more good in the world than any fake eck master.

                Non ; )

                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                >
                Hello Postekcon and All,
                Here's what I found on
                the polio vaccines:

                "How is the vaccine administered?

                IPV is given as a shot in the arm or leg.
                OPV is given as an oral liquid.

                OPV is no longer used in the United States,
                but is still given in other parts of the world
                where polio is common.

                Why was the U.S. polio immunization
                recommendation changed from OPV
                to IPV?

                The change to an all-IPV schedule
                in the United States occurred because
                the Few Cases of polio that were
                occurring (8-10 per year) were
                caused by the OPV vaccine itself
                and not the wild virus.

                The change to IPV protects
                individuals against paralytic polio,
                while eliminating the small chance
                (about Once in Every 2.4 Million Doses)
                of Actually Contracting Polio From
                The Live Oral Vaccine.

                OPV is better at stopping the spread
                of the virus to others, but now that
                wild (natural) polio has been eliminated
                from the Western Hemisphere, this
                advantage is no longer a consideration
                in the United States.

                IPV has been used exclusively
                in the United States since 2000.
                However, in other countries
                where wild polio is still a threat,
                OPV is still used."

                So, whether urban legend, an
                old wives tales, superstition
                misinformation or mitigating
                circumstances the numbers
                don't match. For instance, the
                above information states that
                Once out of 2.4 Million Doses
                will a person contract polio
                from the Live Oral Vaccine.

                Therefore, 47,000 cases could
                not have been vaccine induced,
                unless, the vaccine was stored
                improperly and became contaminated
                and/or inert.

                Anyhow, the point I was making
                is that Eckankar has No Policy/Rule
                stating that vaccines Should Not
                be taken because it would "pose
                an unacceptable threat to our
                health." Therefore how is this
                a "Religious Issue" for ECKists
                when it's never been documented
                as an issue?

                Does this mean that EK children
                should not be vaccinated due
                to Religious Rules/Issues?

                When did Eckankar adopt anti-drug
                policies like Christian Science?

                Besides, these ad hoc policies
                that Klemp seems to be creating
                are arbitrary. Klemp never looked
                into the dangers or side-effects
                of the drugs that his anesthesiologist
                used.

                Plus. Klemp was taking pain medication
                and asked "Dora" (the nurse's aide)
                to relay his request for more "when
                the pain became nearly unbearable."
                If anyone has taken strong prescription
                pain medication and reads the description
                and side-effects they will see that
                there can be many risks to one's
                health.

                What, according to Klemp, makes
                one drug acceptable while others
                "pose an unacceptable threat to
                our health?"

                And, I'll bet Klemp was prescribed
                some anti-inflamatory drugs as well,
                and these can be dangerous to take
                too.

                However, when it comes to some
                unknown inoculation he balks and
                plays the religious card as an excuse
                for his ignorance and fear.

                Prometheus






                "postekcon" wrote:
                >
                >
                > There is always some fashion or fad circulating ekult communities. They are
                usually in health therapy, diet or self-help fields! Most of these fads (like
                the inoculation story) are HK driven, interpreted from his talks and writings.
                When HK promotes authors such as Dale Carnegie, or some other theories, they
                became high profile fads for a while.
                >
                > I remember one odd fad in my ekult community, it was fashionable to discuss in
                class NOT taking pain medication for minor ailments etc. But then, as is now, no
                one discussed WHY!
                >
                > The subject of inoculation is a separate issue. One case in point, there is
                currently a program to eradicate polio in India via inoculation. In 2011, 47,000
                new polio cases were logged as vaccine induced!
                > -Postekcon
                >
                >
                "prometheus_wrote:
                > >
                > > Hello Postekcon and All,
                > >
                > > On another note is the topic
                > > about inoculations. I would
                > > really like to hear some comments
                > > and POVs concerning this.
                > >
                > > Klemp refused an (unknown)
                > > inoculation at the hospital and
                > > used the excuse that it was
                > > a "Religious Issue" when there
                > > is absolutely no Religious Policy
                > > concerning inoculations that
                > > ECKANKAR has ever stated:
                > >
                > > HK: "Yes, it is a religious issue
                > > for us; the inoculation would
                > > pose an unacceptable threat to
                > > our health."
                > >
                > >
                > > Plus, Why would the "Mahanta"
                > > (Klemp) be fearful of this inoculation?
                > >
                > > If he had an allergic reaction to
                > > this he could use that as the reason
                > > not to get it, but that's not the case.
                > > Klemp has a "Religious Issue" with
                > > getting this vaccine.
                > >
                > > Was it a High Dose Flu Shot (for
                > > those 65 and older), a pneumonia
                > > shot, or the shingles vaccine (age
                > > 60 and older)? What was it that
                > > made this a "Religious Issue" when
                > > it's never been mentioned before
                > > by ECKANKAR or by Klemp?
                > >
                > > Now, I can see how it might be
                > > a personal choice because many
                > > people have fears of inoculations
                > > or of needles in general. The CDC
                > > website, or Walgreens, will give
                > > people info on prescription drugs
                > > and on inoculations.
                > >
                > > However, for Klemp to say that
                > > this was a "Religious Issue" is,
                > > in my opinion, an attempt to
                > > save face.
                > >
                > > Klemp can't really admit that
                > > he has a fear that a life threatening
                > > reaction might occur. Maybe
                > > one in a million people could
                > > be negatively affected depending
                > > upon their overall health, but
                > > that's a minute risk compared
                > > to the illness or malady that
                > > the inoculation is preventing.
                > >
                > > How would it look for the
                > > religious leader of this small
                > > local cult to be fearful of
                > > the negligible side-effects
                > > of this vaccine and imagine
                > > this story being told to others!
                > >
                > > But, for a religious leader
                > > to decline the inoculation
                > > by saying it's a "Religious
                > > Issue" to someone who
                > > doesn't know anything about
                > > Eckankar's dogma/belief
                > > is a more acceptable tactic,
                > > although, still somewhat
                > > strange.
                > >
                > > Imagine the effort that EK
                > > Vahanas are making in
                > > order to present Eckankar
                > > as a normal religion with
                > > no strange behaviors or
                > > sacrifices, etc. and saying
                > > "We're just like you" then,
                > > have Klemp pull this "Religious
                > > Issue" card on the nursing
                > > staff!
                > >
                > > One might think, What kind
                > > of an ignorant, fearful, and
                > > antiquated cult is this Eckankar?
                > >
                > > Since Klemp had surgery on
                > > his broken hip and hardware
                > > put in and maybe a blood
                > > supplied, anesthesia, various
                > > drugs and a lot of pain medication
                > > one has to wonder why he
                > > declined this vaccine and
                > > claimed that inoculations (in
                > > general?) were against his
                > > Religion!
                > >
                > > I doubt that Klemp found
                > > out which drugs and anesthesia
                > > would be used for his surgery
                > > and recovery process to manage
                > > pain etc. and researched their
                > > side-effects and dangers.
                > >
                > > By being the LEM/Mahanta
                > > he can't just say it's a "religious
                > > issue" for him and Joan.
                > >
                > > It has now become a "Religious
                > > Issue" for all ECKists! Except,
                > > I doubt that many ECKists
                > > noticed his comments or if
                > > they did they certainly can't
                > > ask too many, if any, questions
                > > about this "Religious Issue"
                > > and dogma that has never
                > > before been revealed. And,
                > > by not mentioning which
                > > "inoculation" it still hasn't
                > > been revealed!
                > >
                > > Prometheus
                > > p.s. To Postekcon:
                > > Yes, it seems that ECKists
                > > don't get credit for being
                > > "servants," i.e. volunteers,
                > > within their communities.
                > > It doesn't count toward
                > > that next initiation. RESAs
                > > notice these things and
                > > unless you're a high profile
                > > professional, i.e. lawyer,
                > > doctor, or architect, one
                > > must become an EK volunteer
                > > in order to advance with
                > > more and higher initiations.
                > >
                > > Plus, Klemp has slowed
                > > down the initiation process
                > > by tying them into physical
                > > requirements such as
                > > additional training and
                > > duties which are, of course,
                > > voluntary if you want to
                > > become a cleric, initiator,
                > > spiritual aide, or RESA.
                > > And, these titles are tied
                > > into higher initiations.
                > > [end]
                > >
                > > postekcon wrote:
                > > You are Ssoooo right. This question bothered me all my time in ekult!
                > >
                > > A lot of lip-service to 'service' per-se, but the bottom line was, only
                > > 'service' TO ekult was recorded as 'service'?
                > >
                > > This is NOT the way the Universe works, service to the one; to the exclusion
                of
                > > the other!
                > > -Postekcon
                > >
                > >
                > > Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
                > > >
                > > What occurs to me is if the lem says we are here to serve others then why is
                > > it that as members you are only given duties that serves eckankar. I never
                > > heard of any work going on in eckankar that benefited anything but eckankar.
                > > Most activities are geared to drag in new members period..
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > prometheus wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Hello All,
                > > > I thought I'd bring
                > > > this back to the front
                > > > page----and share
                > > > Klemp's Wisdom Notes
                > > > from the 09/2012
                > > > The Mystic World.
                > > >
                > > > HK starts off by
                > > > saying that Eckankar
                > > > is for "lovers of life"
                > > > and that people need
                > > > not worry by thinking
                > > > it is a requirement
                > > > to sacrifice your life
                > > > to be a Co-worker
                > > > with the Mahanta.
                > > >
                > > > Klemp then poses
                > > > some "What If" questions.
                > > > Like, what if an astroid
                > > > hit causing devastation.
                > > > What would you do?
                > > >
                > > > "My words here are not
                > > > a foreshadowing of a
                > > > planetary disaster, BUT
                > > > a gentle reminder that
                > > > we exist to serve others."
                > > >
                > > > Well, there it is again.
                > > > Another pitch for service!
                > > > Klemp needs his volunteer
                > > > sales staff.
                > > >
                > > > Klemp even brings up what
                > > > happened to the Atlanteans
                > > > since they "turned from love
                > > > and service to a grab for
                > > > power and conquest." See
                > > > what happens when ECKists
                > > > don't volunteer! Plus, an
                > > > ECKist volunteering would
                > > > equate to how many non-
                > > > ECKists not volunteering?
                > > > Are HK's chelas mini-holding
                > > > tanks for the world's Karma?
                > > > However, HK does alleviate
                > > > some possible fears/concerns
                > > > by saying "a global disaster
                > > > need not happen." So, be of
                > > > service!
                > > >
                > > > "The mental energies of a
                > > > people turned toward evil
                > > > do rebound upon them. It
                > > > is called national karma."
                > > >
                > > > It would seem that this same
                > > > "rebound karma" would apply
                > > > to religions as well. It is called
                > > > religious karma.
                > > >
                > > > Here's something he says
                > > > regarding the negative forces
                > > > that applies to himself, too,
                > > > and yet he doesn't see the
                > > > irony in his words. "... so is
                > > > it any wonder that the few
                > > > command the many and are
                > > > apt to show a blatant disregard
                > > > for the wishes of the latter."
                > > > Sounds like Klemp is speaking
                > > > of himself. He's a tyrant who
                > > > can't and won't accept constructive
                > > > criticism. It's a One-Way street
                > > > and it runs his way! ECKists
                > > > aren't permitted to have differing
                > > > views... he's always right,
                > > > although, he claims not to
                > > > be perfect. That's a Catch-22!
                > > >
                > > > "BUT that is the heavy-handed
                > > > nature of power in the hands
                > > > of spiritual adolescents. So we
                > > > see more autocratic or tyrannical
                > > > rulers than good or wise ones
                > > > who rule according to the law
                > > > of divine love."
                > > >
                > > > See, I told you that Klemp can't
                > > > look into the mirror and see the
                > > > truth. He only sees his narcissistic
                > > > self!
                > > >
                > > > HK then talks to ECKists about
                > > > choosing between following:
                > > > "God's law or man's law. There
                > > > will be consequences.... for civil
                > > > disobedience... Again, God's law
                > > > or man's law? The issue for an
                > > > ECKist is freedom of conscience."
                > > >
                > > > Yet, look at what freedoms
                > > > ECKists have within ECKankar!
                > > > Not that many... it's a power
                > > > based hierarchy ruled locally
                > > > by the RESAs' Police Force.
                > > >
                > > > And, let's ponder whether
                > > > these ECK Laws are all that
                > > > "high." In fact they are all of
                > > > the Mental Plane and were,
                > > > thus, created by mankind.
                > > > Plus, "God" is actually the
                > > > KAL (according to Eckankar)
                > > > and is the Negative Force
                > > > in charge of the earth.
                > > >
                > > > ***************************
                > > > KLEMP ON INOCULATIONS:
                > > >
                > > > This next paragraph is a real
                > > > eye-opener! Did you know
                > > > that ECKists have a RELIGIOUS
                > > > ISSUE regarding inoculations?
                > > >
                > > > Klemp mentions, that while
                > > > in the hospital with his broken
                > > > hip, that he refused an inoculation.
                > > >
                > > > HK: "Yes, it is a religious issue
                > > > for us; the inoculation would
                > > > pose an unacceptable threat
                > > > to our health."
                > > >
                > > > It's kind of strange that Klemp
                > > > didn't mention which inoculation
                > > > was an issue. All inoculations
                > > > or just certain ones like the Flu
                > > > Shot, Pneumonia, or Shingles?
                > > > It would be nice to know.
                > > >
                > > > However, why is the Mahanta/
                > > > LEM (Klemp) fearful of an
                > > > inoculation? Is being a "lover
                > > > of life," also, being fearful
                > > > of death? It seems so! And,
                > > > Klemp is 70 years old and
                > > > showing his age.
                > > >
                > > > Anyway, Klemp says some
                > > > more things we've all, basically,
                > > > heard before and ends with:
                > > > "As always, the fires of karma
                > > > burn ever so hot and bright,
                > > > leaving each Soul ever more
                > > > spiritually refined." Klemp,
                > > > then, signs off with an
                > > > "Affectionately, Harold"
                > > >
                > > > So, is Klemp afraid of inoculations
                > > > because of possible karmic
                > > > retribution? Is his "Holding
                > > > Tank" full? If it was up to
                > > > Klemp he'd become a typhoid
                > > > Harry and spread his disease
                > > > everywhere. What about being
                > > > the cause for negativity?
                > > >
                > > > Also, I find it interesting that
                > > > Klemp ends by saying:
                > > > "Affectionately, Harold"
                > > >
                > > > I was looking at Twitchell's
                > > > old Wisdom Notes and he'd
                > > > end them with "My Love Is
                > > > Always With You" or "My
                > > > Love Protects You."
                > > >
                > > > Thus, when Klemp talks
                > > > about "the law of divine
                > > > love" it's strange that he
                > > > ends the article with,
                > > > "Affectionately."
                > > >
                > > > Klemp is the "heavy-handed
                > > > ruler and tyrant... and
                > > > spiritual adolescent"
                > > > that he talked about.
                > > >
                > > > This is why HK is fearful
                > > > of inoculations and hides
                > > > behind "religious beliefs."
                > > > He cannot be Detached
                > > > when he refuses inoculations
                > > > that others, like I, get. I'm
                > > > not fearful and I've read
                > > > the literature with the side-
                > > > effects. This is the main
                > > > reason he doesn't mention
                > > > which inoculation he refused.
                > > >
                > > > If it has to do with religious
                > > > beliefs... what law of God
                > > > justifies this fearful omission
                > > > that could, also, jeopardize
                > > > the health of others?
                > > >
                > > > Prometheus
                > > >
                > > > *********************
                > > > In the 09/2012 The
                > > > Mystic World, Klemp
                > > > tells of his hospital
                > > > experience with the
                > > > nursing staff.
                > > >
                > > > BTW- Notice HK's use
                > > > of BUT and reference
                > > > my previous post about
                > > > the use of IF, AND,
                > > > and especially BUT.
                > > >
                > > > I'll comment on the
                > > > excerpts:
                > > >
                > > > Klemp begins with his
                > > > story by making it seem
                > > > that his accident was
                > > > tied into being a channel
                > > > for the Holy Spirit.
                > > >
                > > > If asked, would you do
                > > > anything for the Holy
                > > > Spirit? And most would
                > > > respond, Yes, of course!
                > > >
                > > > "BUT what IF it meant
                > > > a complete change in
                > > > your way of doing nearly
                > > > everything?
                > > >
                > > > Notice the use of "BUT"
                > > > and "IF?" Two words EKists
                > > > are Not to use when
                > > > communicating with
                > > > one another.
                > > >
                > > > So, Klemp is setting us
                > > > up with his broken-hip
                > > > injury, caused by a fall
                > > > on "black ice," to be
                > > > something special and
                > > > spiritual.
                > > >
                > > > In fact, life happens!
                > > > Everyone goes through
                > > > injuries, pain, and suffering.
                > > > Klemp is making it seem
                > > > like his injury was because
                > > > he's what? Taking on the
                > > > Karma of his chelas and,
                > > > thus, he slips and falls?
                > > >
                > > > Or, maybe this "Slip & Fall"
                > > > is a Waking Dream telling
                > > > ECKists that Klemp has
                > > > Fallen from Grace! And,
                > > > the "Black Ice" is telling
                > > > us that HK's a "Black Magician"
                > > > like Darwin was! Darwin
                > > > did give the Rod of Power
                > > > to Klemp (the 12th initiation)
                > > > and initiated him with
                > > > several other Higher Initiations.
                > > > Plus, DG & HK met secretly
                > > > (twice, circa 1981-82)
                > > > in a Sound Proof Dark
                > > > Room where HK worked.
                > > > The Light and Sound was
                > > > kept out of this room
                > > > while they were preparing
                > > > for the transition. And,
                > > > it was Klemp's idea to
                > > > meet there, and Darwin
                > > > hesitated when learning
                > > > it had been previously
                > > > been converted to a
                > > > Sound Proof room and
                > > > was used as a Dark Room
                > > > by Klemp. However, Gross
                > > > overlooked his inner nudge
                > > > and paid the price!
                > > >
                > > > Anyway, Klemp mentions:
                > > > Faye, the RN; Holly, the
                > > > Physical Therapist; Lori,
                > > > the Occupational Therapist;
                > > > Dora, the West African
                > > > Nurse's Aide.
                > > >
                > > > Of course, Klemp claims
                > > > that everyone was talking
                > > > about the leader of Eckankar
                > > > falling on black ice and
                > > > breaking his hip.
                > > >
                > > > BTW- Klemp is pictured
                > > > at the 2012 EK Springtime
                > > > Seminar setting in a wheelchair.
                > > >
                > > > Anywho, HK talks about
                > > > Faye, nutrition, and states:
                > > > "BUT Faye, a member of
                > > > the Assembly of God church,
                > > > was determined to be the
                > > > complete professional. No
                > > > biases."
                > > >
                > > > Apparently Klemp feels the
                > > > need to give some background
                > > > on these people to make it
                > > > sound like he cares about
                > > > them. What Klemp fails to
                > > > see is that ECKist, or not,
                > > > we are all put into these
                > > > same scenarios or similar
                > > > situations and make small
                > > > talk and friends with those
                > > > who are taking care of us.
                > > >
                > > > Klemp, then, mentions that
                > > > some of Faye's co-workers
                > > > didn't understand their easy
                > > > "banter" and thought she was
                > > > being disrespectful since HK
                > > > was a preacher, of sorts, and
                > > > a cultist. "BUT I left her supervisor
                > > > a glowing commendation about
                > > > her healing laughter, care,
                > > > compassion, and understanding."
                > > >
                > > > Klemp says, "Do with me as
                > > > you please." Although, the
                > > > title of this front page article
                > > > is "Do With Me As You Will"
                > > > which is promoting HK's accident
                > > > as a Karmic sacrifice for his
                > > > chelas. Klemp's clueless about
                > > > the sufferings of others because
                > > > he has always lacked empathy!
                > > >
                > > > "Again, the EK had done with me
                > > > as It would, to better touch Souls
                > > > ready for the journey home to
                > > > God." Isn't "God" actually Kal,
                > > > whereas, Sugmad is different?
                > > > This is an official EK Pub so why
                > > > call Sugmad "God," unless, you
                > > > actually mean God!
                > > >
                > > > Next, Klemp mentions Holly
                > > > his physical therapist. She
                > > > mentions that, "Tomorrow at
                > > > this time our divorce will be
                > > > final." Klemp responds with,
                > > > "That's great!" Holly shrugs
                > > > her shoulders indifferently
                > > > and says, "I guess."
                > > >
                > > > Klemp shares his wisdom
                > > > of this while overlooking
                > > > the obvious hurt and doubts
                > > > that Holly is going through
                > > > by saying, "For her, the past
                > > > is the past; the present is
                > > > busy enough. Dear Holly."
                > > > To me this is a feeble attempt
                > > > at empathy. Plus, IMO, the
                > > > past isn't the past, especially,
                > > > when children are involved.
                > > >
                > > > Next comes Lori, Klemp's
                > > > occupational therapist.
                > > > He tells about her hunting
                > > > small game and recounts
                > > > a story she told that a cougar
                > > > once stalked her and her
                > > > husband. "BUT Lori does not
                > > > hunt cougar: it is a trophy
                > > > animal. She hunts for meat."
                > > > I guess that makes it okay
                > > > to kill.
                > > >
                > > > Now comes Dora, the West
                > > > African (Ghana) nurse's aide.
                > > > She brought ice for Harry's
                > > > hip and relayed messages
                > > > to the RN to bring "more
                > > > pain medication." "BUT Dora
                > > > did more, much more. When
                > > > the pain became nearly unbearable,
                > > > she laid a warm, encouraging
                > > > hand on my shoulder. Her
                > > > eyes, too, said, 'I understand."
                > > > Odd that Klemp was in so
                > > > much pain. One would think
                > > > that a 14th Initiate could HU
                > > > it away!
                > > >
                > > > Anyway, Joan came and picked
                > > > Harry up with some top ESC
                > > > staffers. And Klemp ends his
                > > > "tribute to a few of many
                > > > beautiful people in the healing
                > > > field" with these words:
                > > >
                > > > "And, Spirit of all living things,
                > > > I live to hallow Your name
                > > > among lost and wandering
                > > > Souls. So do with me as You
                > > > will."
                > > >
                > > > Klemp's con, along with his
                > > > delusion and narcissism, is
                > > > making this sound like
                > > > he's beseeching Spirit in
                > > > a prayer and giving thanks
                > > > that he can help "lost Souls"
                > > > by touching people with
                > > > his common everyday words
                > > > and presence... like everyone
                > > > else does in life. Except,
                > > > HK is more special than
                > > > other Souls because he's
                > > > the M/LEM of a false
                > > > teaching that pretends it's
                > > > "Spiritual."
                > > >
                > > > What's funny is that Klemp
                > > > thinks he's giving EKists
                > > > a pep talk and is showing
                > > > them how they should act
                > > > or respond to people if they
                > > > are in situations similar to
                > > > his as a result of Karma,
                > > > tests, and/or as channels
                > > > for Spirit.
                > > >
                > > > What Klemp is clueless of,
                > > > and doesn't know, is that
                > > > most EKists and even more
                > > > non-ECKists have already
                > > > responded in ways surpassing
                > > > Klemp's experience with his
                > > > non-lifethreatening injury.
                > > >
                > > > Prometheus
                > >
                >
              • Janice Pfeiffer
                I think it is really kool that HK makes the statements he does about inoculations cuz it makes him appear strange to outsiders.  It just makes it harder for
                Message 7 of 9 , Sep 8, 2012
                • 0 Attachment
                  I think it is really kool that HK makes the statements he does about inoculations cuz it makes him appear strange to outsiders.  It just makes it harder for eck members to excuse his nut side when he will under go surgery and take lots of meds but then again, he talks against an inoculation for "religious reasons".  Makes him sound like an uneducated backwards nerd.  That means fewer potential new members.  I like it!

                  --- On Thu, 9/6/12, prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...> wrote:

                  From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
                  Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] HK Declines an Inoculation on Religious Grounds!
                  To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Thursday, September 6, 2012, 8:42 PM

                   
                  Hello Postekcon and All,

                  On another note is the topic
                  about inoculations. I would
                  really like to hear some comments
                  and POVs concerning this.

                  Klemp refused an (unknown)
                  inoculation at the hospital and
                  used the excuse that it was
                  a "Religious Issue" when there
                  is absolutely no Religious Policy
                  concerning inoculations that
                  ECKANKAR has ever stated:

                  HK: "Yes, it is a religious issue
                  for us; the inoculation would
                  pose an unacceptable threat to
                  our health."

                  Plus, Why would the "Mahanta"
                  (Klemp) be fearful of this inoculation?

                  If he had an allergic reaction to
                  this he could use that as the reason
                  not to get it, but that's not the case.
                  Klemp has a "Religious Issue" with
                  getting this vaccine.

                  Was it a High Dose Flu Shot (for
                  those 65 and older), a pneumonia
                  shot, or the shingles vaccine (age
                  60 and older)? What was it that
                  made this a "Religious Issue" when
                  it's never been mentioned before
                  by ECKANKAR or by Klemp?

                  Now, I can see how it might be
                  a personal choice because many
                  people have fears of inoculations
                  or of needles in general. The CDC
                  website, or Walgreens, will give
                  people info on prescription drugs
                  and on inoculations.

                  However, for Klemp to say that
                  this was a "Religious Issue" is,
                  in my opinion, an attempt to
                  save face.

                  Klemp can't really admit that
                  he has a fear that a life threatening
                  reaction might occur. Maybe
                  one in a million people could
                  be negatively affected depending
                  upon their overall health, but
                  that's a minute risk compared
                  to the illness or malady that
                  the inoculation is preventing.

                  How would it look for the
                  religious leader of this small
                  local cult to be fearful of
                  the negligible side-effects
                  of this vaccine and imagine
                  this story being told to others!

                  But, for a religious leader
                  to decline the inoculation
                  by saying it's a "Religious
                  Issue" to someone who
                  doesn't know anything about
                  Eckankar's dogma/belief
                  is a more acceptable tactic,
                  although, still somewhat
                  strange.

                  Imagine the effort that EK
                  Vahanas are making in
                  order to present Eckankar
                  as a normal religion with
                  no strange behaviors or
                  sacrifices, etc. and saying
                  "We're just like you" then,
                  have Klemp pull this "Religious
                  Issue" card on the nursing
                  staff!

                  One might think, What kind
                  of an ignorant, fearful, and
                  antiquated cult is this Eckankar?

                  Since Klemp had surgery on
                  his broken hip and hardware
                  put in and maybe a blood
                  supplied, anesthesia, various
                  drugs and a lot of pain medication
                  one has to wonder why he
                  declined this vaccine and
                  claimed that inoculations (in
                  general?) were against his
                  Religion!

                  I doubt that Klemp found
                  out which drugs and anesthesia
                  would be used for his surgery
                  and recovery process to manage
                  pain etc. and researched their
                  side-effects and dangers.

                  By being the LEM/Mahanta
                  he can't just say it's a "religious
                  issue" for him and Joan.

                  It has now become a "Religious
                  Issue" for all ECKists! Except,
                  I doubt that many ECKists
                  noticed his comments or if
                  they did they certainly can't
                  ask too many, if any, questions
                  about this "Religious Issue"
                  and dogma that has never
                  before been revealed. And,
                  by not mentioning which
                  "inoculation" it still hasn't
                  been revealed!

                  Prometheus
                  p.s. To Postekcon:
                  Yes, it seems that ECKists
                  don't get credit for being
                  "servants," i.e. volunteers,
                  within their communities.
                  It doesn't count toward
                  that next initiation. RESAs
                  notice these things and
                  unless you're a high profile
                  professional, i.e. lawyer,
                  doctor, or architect, one
                  must become an EK volunteer
                  in order to advance with
                  more and higher initiations.

                  Plus, Klemp has slowed
                  down the initiation process
                  by tying them into physical
                  requirements such as
                  additional training and
                  duties which are, of course,
                  voluntary if you want to
                  become a cleric, initiator,
                  spiritual aide, or RESA.
                  And, these titles are tied
                  into higher initiations.
                  [end]

                  postekcon wrote:
                  You are Ssoooo right. This question bothered me all my time in ekult!

                  A lot of lip-service to 'service' per-se, but the bottom line was, only
                  'service' TO ekult was recorded as 'service'?

                  This is NOT the way the Universe works, service to the one; to the exclusion of
                  the other!
                  -Postekcon

                  Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
                  >
                  What occurs to me is if the lem says we are here to serve others then why is
                  it that as members you are only given duties that serves eckankar. I never
                  heard of any work going on in eckankar that benefited anything but eckankar.
                  Most activities are geared to drag in new members period..

                  prometheus wrote:
                  >
                  > Hello All,
                  > I thought I'd bring
                  > this back to the front
                  > page----and share
                  > Klemp's Wisdom Notes
                  > from the 09/2012
                  > The Mystic World.
                  >
                  > HK starts off by
                  > saying that Eckankar
                  > is for "lovers of life"
                  > and that people need
                  > not worry by thinking
                  > it is a requirement
                  > to sacrifice your life
                  > to be a Co-worker
                  > with the Mahanta.
                  >
                  > Klemp then poses
                  > some "What If" questions.
                  > Like, what if an astroid
                  > hit causing devastation.
                  > What would you do?
                  >
                  > "My words here are not
                  > a foreshadowing of a
                  > planetary disaster, BUT
                  > a gentle reminder that
                  > we exist to serve others."
                  >
                  > Well, there it is again.
                  > Another pitch for service!
                  > Klemp needs his volunteer
                  > sales staff.
                  >
                  > Klemp even brings up what
                  > happened to the Atlanteans
                  > since they "turned from love
                  > and service to a grab for
                  > power and conquest." See
                  > what happens when ECKists
                  > don't volunteer! Plus, an
                  > ECKist volunteering would
                  > equate to how many non-
                  > ECKists not volunteering?
                  > Are HK's chelas mini-holding
                  > tanks for the world's Karma?
                  > However, HK does alleviate
                  > some possible fears/concerns
                  > by saying "a global disaster
                  > need not happen." So, be of
                  > service!
                  >
                  > "The mental energies of a
                  > people turned toward evil
                  > do rebound upon them. It
                  > is called national karma."
                  >
                  > It would seem that this same
                  > "rebound karma" would apply
                  > to religions as well. It is called
                  > religious karma.
                  >
                  > Here's something he says
                  > regarding the negative forces
                  > that applies to himself, too,
                  > and yet he doesn't see the
                  > irony in his words. "... so is
                  > it any wonder that the few
                  > command the many and are
                  > apt to show a blatant disregard
                  > for the wishes of the latter."
                  > Sounds like Klemp is speaking
                  > of himself. He's a tyrant who
                  > can't and won't accept constructive
                  > criticism. It's a One-Way street
                  > and it runs his way! ECKists
                  > aren't permitted to have differing
                  > views... he's always right,
                  > although, he claims not to
                  > be perfect. That's a Catch-22!
                  >
                  > "BUT that is the heavy-handed
                  > nature of power in the hands
                  > of spiritual adolescents. So we
                  > see more autocratic or tyrannical
                  > rulers than good or wise ones
                  > who rule according to the law
                  > of divine love."
                  >
                  > See, I told you that Klemp can't
                  > look into the mirror and see the
                  > truth. He only sees his narcissistic
                  > self!
                  >
                  > HK then talks to ECKists about
                  > choosing between following:
                  > "God's law or man's law. There
                  > will be consequences.... for civil
                  > disobedience... Again, God's law
                  > or man's law? The issue for an
                  > ECKist is freedom of conscience."
                  >
                  > Yet, look at what freedoms
                  > ECKists have within ECKankar!
                  > Not that many... it's a power
                  > based hierarchy ruled locally
                  > by the RESAs' Police Force.
                  >
                  > And, let's ponder whether
                  > these ECK Laws are all that
                  > "high." In fact they are all of
                  > the Mental Plane and were,
                  > thus, created by mankind.
                  > Plus, "God" is actually the
                  > KAL (according to Eckankar)
                  > and is the Negative Force
                  > in charge of the earth.
                  >
                  > ***************************
                  > KLEMP ON INOCULATIONS:
                  >
                  > This next paragraph is a real
                  > eye-opener! Did you know
                  > that ECKists have a RELIGIOUS
                  > ISSUE regarding inoculations?
                  >
                  > Klemp mentions, that while
                  > in the hospital with his broken
                  > hip, that he refused an inoculation.
                  >
                  > HK: "Yes, it is a religious issue
                  > for us; the inoculation would
                  > pose an unacceptable threat
                  > to our health."
                  >
                  > It's kind of strange that Klemp
                  > didn't mention which inoculation
                  > was an issue. All inoculations
                  > or just certain ones like the Flu
                  > Shot, Pneumonia, or Shingles?
                  > It would be nice to know.
                  >
                  > However, why is the Mahanta/
                  > LEM (Klemp) fearful of an
                  > inoculation? Is being a "lover
                  > of life," also, being fearful
                  > of death? It seems so! And,
                  > Klemp is 70 years old and
                  > showing his age.
                  >
                  > Anyway, Klemp says some
                  > more things we've all, basically,
                  > heard before and ends with:
                  > "As always, the fires of karma
                  > burn ever so hot and bright,
                  > leaving each Soul ever more
                  > spiritually refined." Klemp,
                  > then, signs off with an
                  > "Affectionately, Harold"
                  >
                  > So, is Klemp afraid of inoculations
                  > because of possible karmic
                  > retribution? Is his "Holding
                  > Tank" full? If it was up to
                  > Klemp he'd become a typhoid
                  > Harry and spread his disease
                  > everywhere. What about being
                  > the cause for negativity?
                  >
                  > Also, I find it interesting that
                  > Klemp ends by saying:
                  > "Affectionately, Harold"
                  >
                  > I was looking at Twitchell's
                  > old Wisdom Notes and he'd
                  > end them with "My Love Is
                  > Always With You" or "My
                  > Love Protects You."
                  >
                  > Thus, when Klemp talks
                  > about "the law of divine
                  > love" it's strange that he
                  > ends the article with,
                  > "Affectionately."
                  >
                  > Klemp is the "heavy-handed
                  > ruler and tyrant... and
                  > spiritual adolescent"
                  > that he talked about.
                  >
                  > This is why HK is fearful
                  > of inoculations and hides
                  > behind "religious beliefs."
                  > He cannot be Detached
                  > when he refuses inoculations
                  > that others, like I, get. I'm
                  > not fearful and I've read
                  > the literature with the side-
                  > effects. This is the main
                  > reason he doesn't mention
                  > which inoculation he refused.
                  >
                  > If it has to do with religious
                  > beliefs... what law of God
                  > justifies this fearful omission
                  > that could, also, jeopardize
                  > the health of others?
                  >
                  > Prometheus
                  >
                  > *********************
                  > In the 09/2012 The
                  > Mystic World, Klemp
                  > tells of his hospital
                  > experience with the
                  > nursing staff.
                  >
                  > BTW- Notice HK's use
                  > of BUT and reference
                  > my previous post about
                  > the use of IF, AND,
                  > and especially BUT.
                  >
                  > I'll comment on the
                  > excerpts:
                  >
                  > Klemp begins with his
                  > story by making it seem
                  > that his accident was
                  > tied into being a channel
                  > for the Holy Spirit.
                  >
                  > If asked, would you do
                  > anything for the Holy
                  > Spirit? And most would
                  > respond, Yes, of course!
                  >
                  > "BUT what IF it meant
                  > a complete change in
                  > your way of doing nearly
                  > everything?
                  >
                  > Notice the use of "BUT"
                  > and "IF?" Two words EKists
                  > are Not to use when
                  > communicating with
                  > one another.
                  >
                  > So, Klemp is setting us
                  > up with his broken-hip
                  > injury, caused by a fall
                  > on "black ice," to be
                  > something special and
                  > spiritual.
                  >
                  > In fact, life happens!
                  > Everyone goes through
                  > injuries, pain, and suffering.
                  > Klemp is making it seem
                  > like his injury was because
                  > he's what? Taking on the
                  > Karma of his chelas and,
                  > thus, he slips and falls?
                  >
                  > Or, maybe this "Slip & Fall"
                  > is a Waking Dream telling
                  > ECKists that Klemp has
                  > Fallen from Grace! And,
                  > the "Black Ice" is telling
                  > us that HK's a "Black Magician"
                  > like Darwin was! Darwin
                  > did give the Rod of Power
                  > to Klemp (the 12th initiation)
                  > and initiated him with
                  > several other Higher Initiations.
                  > Plus, DG & HK met secretly
                  > (twice, circa 1981-82)
                  > in a Sound Proof Dark
                  > Room where HK worked.
                  > The Light and Sound was
                  > kept out of this room
                  > while they were preparing
                  > for the transition. And,
                  > it was Klemp's idea to
                  > meet there, and Darwin
                  > hesitated when learning
                  > it had been previously
                  > been converted to a
                  > Sound Proof room and
                  > was used as a Dark Room
                  > by Klemp. However, Gross
                  > overlooked his inner nudge
                  > and paid the price!
                  >
                  > Anyway, Klemp mentions:
                  > Faye, the RN; Holly, the
                  > Physical Therapist; Lori,
                  > the Occupational Therapist;
                  > Dora, the West African
                  > Nurse's Aide.
                  >
                  > Of course, Klemp claims
                  > that everyone was talking
                  > about the leader of Eckankar
                  > falling on black ice and
                  > breaking his hip.
                  >
                  > BTW- Klemp is pictured
                  > at the 2012 EK Springtime
                  > Seminar setting in a wheelchair.
                  >
                  > Anywho, HK talks about
                  > Faye, nutrition, and states:
                  > "BUT Faye, a member of
                  > the Assembly of God church,
                  > was determined to be the
                  > complete professional. No
                  > biases."
                  >
                  > Apparently Klemp feels the
                  > need to give some background
                  > on these people to make it
                  > sound like he cares about
                  > them. What Klemp fails to
                  > see is that ECKist, or not,
                  > we are all put into these
                  > same scenarios or similar
                  > situations and make small
                  > talk and friends with those
                  > who are taking care of us.
                  >
                  > Klemp, then, mentions that
                  > some of Faye's co-workers
                  > didn't understand their easy
                  > "banter" and thought she was
                  > being disrespectful since HK
                  > was a preacher, of sorts, and
                  > a cultist. "BUT I left her supervisor
                  > a glowing commendation about
                  > her healing laughter, care,
                  > compassion, and understanding."
                  >
                  > Klemp says, "Do with me as
                  > you please." Although, the
                  > title of this front page article
                  > is "Do With Me As You Will"
                  > which is promoting HK's accident
                  > as a Karmic sacrifice for his
                  > chelas. Klemp's clueless about
                  > the sufferings of others because
                  > he has always lacked empathy!
                  >
                  > "Again, the EK had done with me
                  > as It would, to better touch Souls
                  > ready for the journey home to
                  > God." Isn't "God" actually Kal,
                  > whereas, Sugmad is different?
                  > This is an official EK Pub so why
                  > call Sugmad "God," unless, you
                  > actually mean God!
                  >
                  > Next, Klemp mentions Holly
                  > his physical therapist. She
                  > mentions that, "Tomorrow at
                  > this time our divorce will be
                  > final." Klemp responds with,
                  > "That's great!" Holly shrugs
                  > her shoulders indifferently
                  > and says, "I guess."
                  >
                  > Klemp shares his wisdom
                  > of this while overlooking
                  > the obvious hurt and doubts
                  > that Holly is going through
                  > by saying, "For her, the past
                  > is the past; the present is
                  > busy enough. Dear Holly."
                  > To me this is a feeble attempt
                  > at empathy. Plus, IMO, the
                  > past isn't the past, especially,
                  > when children are involved.
                  >
                  > Next comes Lori, Klemp's
                  > occupational therapist.
                  > He tells about her hunting
                  > small game and recounts
                  > a story she told that a cougar
                  > once stalked her and her
                  > husband. "BUT Lori does not
                  > hunt cougar: it is a trophy
                  > animal. She hunts for meat."
                  > I guess that makes it okay
                  > to kill.
                  >
                  > Now comes Dora, the West
                  > African (Ghana) nurse's aide.
                  > She brought ice for Harry's
                  > hip and relayed messages
                  > to the RN to bring "more
                  > pain medication." "BUT Dora
                  > did more, much more. When
                  > the pain became nearly unbearable,
                  > she laid a warm, encouraging
                  > hand on my shoulder. Her
                  > eyes, too, said, 'I understand."
                  > Odd that Klemp was in so
                  > much pain. One would think
                  > that a 14th Initiate could HU
                  > it away!
                  >
                  > Anyway, Joan came and picked
                  > Harry up with some top ESC
                  > staffers. And Klemp ends his
                  > "tribute to a few of many
                  > beautiful people in the healing
                  > field" with these words:
                  >
                  > "And, Spirit of all living things,
                  > I live to hallow Your name
                  > among lost and wandering
                  > Souls. So do with me as You
                  > will."
                  >
                  > Klemp's con, along with his
                  > delusion and narcissism, is
                  > making this sound like
                  > he's beseeching Spirit in
                  > a prayer and giving thanks
                  > that he can help "lost Souls"
                  > by touching people with
                  > his common everyday words
                  > and presence... like everyone
                  > else does in life. Except,
                  > HK is more special than
                  > other Souls because he's
                  > the M/LEM of a false
                  > teaching that pretends it's
                  > "Spiritual."
                  >
                  > What's funny is that Klemp
                  > thinks he's giving EKists
                  > a pep talk and is showing
                  > them how they should act
                  > or respond to people if they
                  > are in situations similar to
                  > his as a result of Karma,
                  > tests, and/or as channels
                  > for Spirit.
                  >
                  > What Klemp is clueless of,
                  > and doesn't know, is that
                  > most EKists and even more
                  > non-ECKists have already
                  > responded in ways surpassing
                  > Klemp's experience with his
                  > non-lifethreatening injury.
                  >
                  > Prometheus

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