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HK's Broken-Hip and Fear of an Inoculation!

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello All, I thought I d bring this back to the front page----and share Klemp s Wisdom Notes from the 09/2012 The Mystic World. HK starts off by saying that
    Message 1 of 9 , Sep 4, 2012
    • 0 Attachment
      Hello All,
      I thought I'd bring
      this back to the front
      page----and share
      Klemp's Wisdom Notes
      from the 09/2012
      The Mystic World.

      HK starts off by
      saying that Eckankar
      is for "lovers of life"
      and that people need
      not worry by thinking
      it is a requirement
      to sacrifice your life
      to be a Co-worker
      with the Mahanta.

      Klemp then poses
      some "What If" questions.
      Like, what if an astroid
      hit causing devastation.
      What would you do?

      "My words here are not
      a foreshadowing of a
      planetary disaster, BUT
      a gentle reminder that
      we exist to serve others."

      Well, there it is again.
      Another pitch for service!
      Klemp needs his volunteer
      sales staff.

      Klemp even brings up what
      happened to the Atlanteans
      since they "turned from love
      and service to a grab for
      power and conquest." See
      what happens when ECKists
      don't volunteer! Plus, an
      ECKist volunteering would
      equate to how many non-
      ECKists not volunteering?
      Are HK's chelas mini-holding
      tanks for the world's Karma?
      However, HK does alleviate
      some possible fears/concerns
      by saying "a global disaster
      need not happen." So, be of
      service!

      "The mental energies of a
      people turned toward evil
      do rebound upon them. It
      is called national karma."

      It would seem that this same
      "rebound karma" would apply
      to religions as well. It is called
      religious karma.

      Here's something he says
      regarding the negative forces
      that applies to himself, too,
      and yet he doesn't see the
      irony in his words. "... so is
      it any wonder that the few
      command the many and are
      apt to show a blatant disregard
      for the wishes of the latter."
      Sounds like Klemp is speaking
      of himself. He's a tyrant who
      can't and won't accept constructive
      criticism. It's a One-Way street
      and it runs his way! ECKists
      aren't permitted to have differing
      views... he's always right,
      although, he claims not to
      be perfect. That's a Catch-22!

      "BUT that is the heavy-handed
      nature of power in the hands
      of spiritual adolescents. So we
      see more autocratic or tyrannical
      rulers than good or wise ones
      who rule according to the law
      of divine love."

      See, I told you that Klemp can't
      look into the mirror and see the
      truth. He only sees his narcissistic
      self!

      HK then talks to ECKists about
      choosing between following:
      "God's law or man's law. There
      will be consequences.... for civil
      disobedience... Again, God's law
      or man's law? The issue for an
      ECKist is freedom of conscience."

      Yet, look at what freedoms
      ECKists have within ECKankar!
      Not that many... it's a power
      based hierarchy ruled locally
      by the RESAs' Police Force.

      And, let's ponder whether
      these ECK Laws are all that
      "high." In fact they are all of
      the Mental Plane and were,
      thus, created by mankind.
      Plus, "God" is actually the
      KAL (according to Eckankar)
      and is the Negative Force
      in charge of the earth.

      ***************************
      KLEMP ON INOCULATIONS:

      This next paragraph is a real
      eye-opener! Did you know
      that ECKists have a RELIGIOUS
      ISSUE regarding inoculations?

      Klemp mentions, that while
      in the hospital with his broken
      hip, that he refused an inoculation.

      HK: "Yes, it is a religious issue
      for us; the inoculation would
      pose an unacceptable threat
      to our health."

      It's kind of strange that Klemp
      didn't mention which inoculation
      was an issue. All inoculations
      or just certain ones like the Flu
      Shot, Pneumonia, or Shingles?
      It would be nice to know.

      However, why is the Mahanta/
      LEM (Klemp) fearful of an
      inoculation? Is being a "lover
      of life," also, being fearful
      of death? It seems so! And,
      Klemp is 70 years old and
      showing his age.

      Anyway, Klemp says some
      more things we've all, basically,
      heard before and ends with:
      "As always, the fires of karma
      burn ever so hot and bright,
      leaving each Soul ever more
      spiritually refined." Klemp,
      then, signs off with an
      "Affectionately, Harold"

      So, is Klemp afraid of inoculations
      because of possible karmic
      retribution? Is his "Holding
      Tank" full? If it was up to
      Klemp he'd become a typhoid
      Harry and spread his disease
      everywhere. What about being
      the cause for negativity?

      Also, I find it interesting that
      Klemp ends by saying:
      "Affectionately, Harold"

      I was looking at Twitchell's
      old Wisdom Notes and he'd
      end them with "My Love Is
      Always With You" or "My
      Love Protects You."

      Thus, when Klemp talks
      about "the law of divine
      love" it's strange that he
      ends the article with,
      "Affectionately."

      Klemp is the "heavy-handed
      ruler and tyrant... and
      spiritual adolescent"
      that he talked about.

      This is why HK is fearful
      of inoculations and hides
      behind "religious beliefs."
      He cannot be Detached
      when he refuses inoculations
      that others, like I, get. I'm
      not fearful and I've read
      the literature with the side-
      effects. This is the main
      reason he doesn't mention
      which inoculation he refused.

      If it has to do with religious
      beliefs... what law of God
      justifies this fearful omission
      that could, also, jeopardize
      the health of others?

      Prometheus


      *********************
      In the 09/2012 The
      Mystic World, Klemp
      tells of his hospital
      experience with the
      nursing staff.

      BTW- Notice HK's use
      of BUT and reference
      my previous post about
      the use of IF, AND,
      and especially BUT.

      I'll comment on the
      excerpts:

      Klemp begins with his
      story by making it seem
      that his accident was
      tied into being a channel
      for the Holy Spirit.

      If asked, would you do
      anything for the Holy
      Spirit? And most would
      respond, Yes, of course!

      "BUT what IF it meant
      a complete change in
      your way of doing nearly
      everything?

      Notice the use of "BUT"
      and "IF?" Two words EKists
      are Not to use when
      communicating with
      one another.

      So, Klemp is setting us
      up with his broken-hip
      injury, caused by a fall
      on "black ice," to be
      something special and
      spiritual.

      In fact, life happens!
      Everyone goes through
      injuries, pain, and suffering.
      Klemp is making it seem
      like his injury was because
      he's what? Taking on the
      Karma of his chelas and,
      thus, he slips and falls?

      Or, maybe this "Slip & Fall"
      is a Waking Dream telling
      ECKists that Klemp has
      Fallen from Grace! And,
      the "Black Ice" is telling
      us that HK's a "Black Magician"
      like Darwin was! Darwin
      did give the Rod of Power
      to Klemp (the 12th initiation)
      and initiated him with
      several other Higher Initiations.
      Plus, DG & HK met secretly
      (twice, circa 1981-82)
      in a Sound Proof Dark
      Room where HK worked.
      The Light and Sound was
      kept out of this room
      while they were preparing
      for the transition. And,
      it was Klemp's idea to
      meet there, and Darwin
      hesitated when learning
      it had been previously
      been converted to a
      Sound Proof room and
      was used as a Dark Room
      by Klemp. However, Gross
      overlooked his inner nudge
      and paid the price!


      Anyway, Klemp mentions:
      Faye, the RN; Holly, the
      Physical Therapist; Lori,
      the Occupational Therapist;
      Dora, the West African
      Nurse's Aide.

      Of course, Klemp claims
      that everyone was talking
      about the leader of Eckankar
      falling on black ice and
      breaking his hip.

      BTW- Klemp is pictured
      at the 2012 EK Springtime
      Seminar setting in a wheelchair.

      Anywho, HK talks about
      Faye, nutrition, and states:
      "BUT Faye, a member of
      the Assembly of God church,
      was determined to be the
      complete professional. No
      biases."

      Apparently Klemp feels the
      need to give some background
      on these people to make it
      sound like he cares about
      them. What Klemp fails to
      see is that ECKist, or not,
      we are all put into these
      same scenarios or similar
      situations and make small
      talk and friends with those
      who are taking care of us.

      Klemp, then, mentions that
      some of Faye's co-workers
      didn't understand their easy
      "banter" and thought she was
      being disrespectful since HK
      was a preacher, of sorts, and
      a cultist. "BUT I left her supervisor
      a glowing commendation about
      her healing laughter, care,
      compassion, and understanding."

      Klemp says, "Do with me as
      you please." Although, the
      title of this front page article
      is "Do With Me As You Will"
      which is promoting HK's accident
      as a Karmic sacrifice for his
      chelas. Klemp's clueless about
      the sufferings of others because
      he has always lacked empathy!

      "Again, the EK had done with me
      as It would, to better touch Souls
      ready for the journey home to
      God." Isn't "God" actually Kal,
      whereas, Sugmad is different?
      This is an official EK Pub so why
      call Sugmad "God," unless, you
      actually mean God!

      Next, Klemp mentions Holly
      his physical therapist. She
      mentions that, "Tomorrow at
      this time our divorce will be
      final." Klemp responds with,
      "That's great!" Holly shrugs
      her shoulders indifferently
      and says, "I guess."

      Klemp shares his wisdom
      of this while overlooking
      the obvious hurt and doubts
      that Holly is going through
      by saying, "For her, the past
      is the past; the present is
      busy enough. Dear Holly."
      To me this is a feeble attempt
      at empathy. Plus, IMO, the
      past isn't the past, especially,
      when children are involved.

      Next comes Lori, Klemp's
      occupational therapist.
      He tells about her hunting
      small game and recounts
      a story she told that a cougar
      once stalked her and her
      husband. "BUT Lori does not
      hunt cougar: it is a trophy
      animal. She hunts for meat."
      I guess that makes it okay
      to kill.

      Now comes Dora, the West
      African (Ghana) nurse's aide.
      She brought ice for Harry's
      hip and relayed messages
      to the RN to bring "more
      pain medication." "BUT Dora
      did more, much more. When
      the pain became nearly unbearable,
      she laid a warm, encouraging
      hand on my shoulder. Her
      eyes, too, said, 'I understand."
      Odd that Klemp was in so
      much pain. One would think
      that a 14th Initiate could HU
      it away!

      Anyway, Joan came and picked
      Harry up with some top ESC
      staffers. And Klemp ends his
      "tribute to a few of many
      beautiful people in the healing
      field" with these words:

      "And, Spirit of all living things,
      I live to hallow Your name
      among lost and wandering
      Souls. So do with me as You
      will."

      Klemp's con, along with his
      delusion and narcissism, is
      making this sound like
      he's beseeching Spirit in
      a prayer and giving thanks
      that he can help "lost Souls"
      by touching people with
      his common everyday words
      and presence... like everyone
      else does in life. Except,
      HK is more special than
      other Souls because he's
      the M/LEM of a false
      teaching that pretends it's
      "Spiritual."

      What's funny is that Klemp
      thinks he's giving EKists
      a pep talk and is showing
      them how they should act
      or respond to people if they
      are in situations similar to
      his as a result of Karma,
      tests, and/or as channels
      for Spirit.

      What Klemp is clueless of,
      and doesn't know, is that
      most EKists and even more
      non-ECKists have already
      responded in ways surpassing
      Klemp's experience with his
      non-lifethreatening injury.

      Prometheus
    • Janice Pfeiffer
      What occurs to me is if the lem says we are here to serve others then why is it that as members you are only given duties that serves eckankar.  I never heard
      Message 2 of 9 , Sep 4, 2012
      • 0 Attachment
        What occurs to me is if the lem says we are here to serve others then why is it that as members you are only given duties that serves eckankar.  I never heard of any work going on in eckankar that benefited anything but eckankar.  Most activities are geared to drag in new members period..

        --- On Tue, 9/4/12, prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...> wrote:

        From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
        Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] HK's Broken-Hip and Fear of an Inoculation!
        To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Tuesday, September 4, 2012, 9:34 PM

         
        Hello All,
        I thought I'd bring
        this back to the front
        page----and share
        Klemp's Wisdom Notes
        from the 09/2012
        The Mystic World.

        HK starts off by
        saying that Eckankar
        is for "lovers of life"
        and that people need
        not worry by thinking
        it is a requirement
        to sacrifice your life
        to be a Co-worker
        with the Mahanta.

        Klemp then poses
        some "What If" questions.
        Like, what if an astroid
        hit causing devastation.
        What would you do?

        "My words here are not
        a foreshadowing of a
        planetary disaster, BUT
        a gentle reminder that
        we exist to serve others."

        Well, there it is again.
        Another pitch for service!
        Klemp needs his volunteer
        sales staff.

        Klemp even brings up what
        happened to the Atlanteans
        since they "turned from love
        and service to a grab for
        power and conquest." See
        what happens when ECKists
        don't volunteer! Plus, an
        ECKist volunteering would
        equate to how many non-
        ECKists not volunteering?
        Are HK's chelas mini-holding
        tanks for the world's Karma?
        However, HK does alleviate
        some possible fears/concerns
        by saying "a global disaster
        need not happen." So, be of
        service!

        "The mental energies of a
        people turned toward evil
        do rebound upon them. It
        is called national karma."

        It would seem that this same
        "rebound karma" would apply
        to religions as well. It is called
        religious karma.

        Here's something he says
        regarding the negative forces
        that applies to himself, too,
        and yet he doesn't see the
        irony in his words. "... so is
        it any wonder that the few
        command the many and are
        apt to show a blatant disregard
        for the wishes of the latter."
        Sounds like Klemp is speaking
        of himself. He's a tyrant who
        can't and won't accept constructive
        criticism. It's a One-Way street
        and it runs his way! ECKists
        aren't permitted to have differing
        views... he's always right,
        although, he claims not to
        be perfect. That's a Catch-22!

        "BUT that is the heavy-handed
        nature of power in the hands
        of spiritual adolescents. So we
        see more autocratic or tyrannical
        rulers than good or wise ones
        who rule according to the law
        of divine love."

        See, I told you that Klemp can't
        look into the mirror and see the
        truth. He only sees his narcissistic
        self!

        HK then talks to ECKists about
        choosing between following:
        "God's law or man's law. There
        will be consequences.... for civil
        disobedience... Again, God's law
        or man's law? The issue for an
        ECKist is freedom of conscience."

        Yet, look at what freedoms
        ECKists have within ECKankar!
        Not that many... it's a power
        based hierarchy ruled locally
        by the RESAs' Police Force.

        And, let's ponder whether
        these ECK Laws are all that
        "high." In fact they are all of
        the Mental Plane and were,
        thus, created by mankind.
        Plus, "God" is actually the
        KAL (according to Eckankar)
        and is the Negative Force
        in charge of the earth.

        ***************************
        KLEMP ON INOCULATIONS:

        This next paragraph is a real
        eye-opener! Did you know
        that ECKists have a RELIGIOUS
        ISSUE regarding inoculations?

        Klemp mentions, that while
        in the hospital with his broken
        hip, that he refused an inoculation.

        HK: "Yes, it is a religious issue
        for us; the inoculation would
        pose an unacceptable threat
        to our health."

        It's kind of strange that Klemp
        didn't mention which inoculation
        was an issue. All inoculations
        or just certain ones like the Flu
        Shot, Pneumonia, or Shingles?
        It would be nice to know.

        However, why is the Mahanta/
        LEM (Klemp) fearful of an
        inoculation? Is being a "lover
        of life," also, being fearful
        of death? It seems so! And,
        Klemp is 70 years old and
        showing his age.

        Anyway, Klemp says some
        more things we've all, basically,
        heard before and ends with:
        "As always, the fires of karma
        burn ever so hot and bright,
        leaving each Soul ever more
        spiritually refined." Klemp,
        then, signs off with an
        "Affectionately, Harold"

        So, is Klemp afraid of inoculations
        because of possible karmic
        retribution? Is his "Holding
        Tank" full? If it was up to
        Klemp he'd become a typhoid
        Harry and spread his disease
        everywhere. What about being
        the cause for negativity?

        Also, I find it interesting that
        Klemp ends by saying:
        "Affectionately, Harold"

        I was looking at Twitchell's
        old Wisdom Notes and he'd
        end them with "My Love Is
        Always With You" or "My
        Love Protects You."

        Thus, when Klemp talks
        about "the law of divine
        love" it's strange that he
        ends the article with,
        "Affectionately."

        Klemp is the "heavy-handed
        ruler and tyrant... and
        spiritual adolescent"
        that he talked about.

        This is why HK is fearful
        of inoculations and hides
        behind "religious beliefs."
        He cannot be Detached
        when he refuses inoculations
        that others, like I, get. I'm
        not fearful and I've read
        the literature with the side-
        effects. This is the main
        reason he doesn't mention
        which inoculation he refused.

        If it has to do with religious
        beliefs... what law of God
        justifies this fearful omission
        that could, also, jeopardize
        the health of others?

        Prometheus

        *********************
        In the 09/2012 The
        Mystic World, Klemp
        tells of his hospital
        experience with the
        nursing staff.

        BTW- Notice HK's use
        of BUT and reference
        my previous post about
        the use of IF, AND,
        and especially BUT.

        I'll comment on the
        excerpts:

        Klemp begins with his
        story by making it seem
        that his accident was
        tied into being a channel
        for the Holy Spirit.

        If asked, would you do
        anything for the Holy
        Spirit? And most would
        respond, Yes, of course!

        "BUT what IF it meant
        a complete change in
        your way of doing nearly
        everything?

        Notice the use of "BUT"
        and "IF?" Two words EKists
        are Not to use when
        communicating with
        one another.

        So, Klemp is setting us
        up with his broken-hip
        injury, caused by a fall
        on "black ice," to be
        something special and
        spiritual.

        In fact, life happens!
        Everyone goes through
        injuries, pain, and suffering.
        Klemp is making it seem
        like his injury was because
        he's what? Taking on the
        Karma of his chelas and,
        thus, he slips and falls?

        Or, maybe this "Slip & Fall"
        is a Waking Dream telling
        ECKists that Klemp has
        Fallen from Grace! And,
        the "Black Ice" is telling
        us that HK's a "Black Magician"
        like Darwin was! Darwin
        did give the Rod of Power
        to Klemp (the 12th initiation)
        and initiated him with
        several other Higher Initiations.
        Plus, DG & HK met secretly
        (twice, circa 1981-82)
        in a Sound Proof Dark
        Room where HK worked.
        The Light and Sound was
        kept out of this room
        while they were preparing
        for the transition. And,
        it was Klemp's idea to
        meet there, and Darwin
        hesitated when learning
        it had been previously
        been converted to a
        Sound Proof room and
        was used as a Dark Room
        by Klemp. However, Gross
        overlooked his inner nudge
        and paid the price!

        Anyway, Klemp mentions:
        Faye, the RN; Holly, the
        Physical Therapist; Lori,
        the Occupational Therapist;
        Dora, the West African
        Nurse's Aide.

        Of course, Klemp claims
        that everyone was talking
        about the leader of Eckankar
        falling on black ice and
        breaking his hip.

        BTW- Klemp is pictured
        at the 2012 EK Springtime
        Seminar setting in a wheelchair.

        Anywho, HK talks about
        Faye, nutrition, and states:
        "BUT Faye, a member of
        the Assembly of God church,
        was determined to be the
        complete professional. No
        biases."

        Apparently Klemp feels the
        need to give some background
        on these people to make it
        sound like he cares about
        them. What Klemp fails to
        see is that ECKist, or not,
        we are all put into these
        same scenarios or similar
        situations and make small
        talk and friends with those
        who are taking care of us.

        Klemp, then, mentions that
        some of Faye's co-workers
        didn't understand their easy
        "banter" and thought she was
        being disrespectful since HK
        was a preacher, of sorts, and
        a cultist. "BUT I left her supervisor
        a glowing commendation about
        her healing laughter, care,
        compassion, and understanding."

        Klemp says, "Do with me as
        you please." Although, the
        title of this front page article
        is "Do With Me As You Will"
        which is promoting HK's accident
        as a Karmic sacrifice for his
        chelas. Klemp's clueless about
        the sufferings of others because
        he has always lacked empathy!

        "Again, the EK had done with me
        as It would, to better touch Souls
        ready for the journey home to
        God." Isn't "God" actually Kal,
        whereas, Sugmad is different?
        This is an official EK Pub so why
        call Sugmad "God," unless, you
        actually mean God!

        Next, Klemp mentions Holly
        his physical therapist. She
        mentions that, "Tomorrow at
        this time our divorce will be
        final." Klemp responds with,
        "That's great!" Holly shrugs
        her shoulders indifferently
        and says, "I guess."

        Klemp shares his wisdom
        of this while overlooking
        the obvious hurt and doubts
        that Holly is going through
        by saying, "For her, the past
        is the past; the present is
        busy enough. Dear Holly."
        To me this is a feeble attempt
        at empathy. Plus, IMO, the
        past isn't the past, especially,
        when children are involved.

        Next comes Lori, Klemp's
        occupational therapist.
        He tells about her hunting
        small game and recounts
        a story she told that a cougar
        once stalked her and her
        husband. "BUT Lori does not
        hunt cougar: it is a trophy
        animal. She hunts for meat."
        I guess that makes it okay
        to kill.

        Now comes Dora, the West
        African (Ghana) nurse's aide.
        She brought ice for Harry's
        hip and relayed messages
        to the RN to bring "more
        pain medication." "BUT Dora
        did more, much more. When
        the pain became nearly unbearable,
        she laid a warm, encouraging
        hand on my shoulder. Her
        eyes, too, said, 'I understand."
        Odd that Klemp was in so
        much pain. One would think
        that a 14th Initiate could HU
        it away!

        Anyway, Joan came and picked
        Harry up with some top ESC
        staffers. And Klemp ends his
        "tribute to a few of many
        beautiful people in the healing
        field" with these words:

        "And, Spirit of all living things,
        I live to hallow Your name
        among lost and wandering
        Souls. So do with me as You
        will."

        Klemp's con, along with his
        delusion and narcissism, is
        making this sound like
        he's beseeching Spirit in
        a prayer and giving thanks
        that he can help "lost Souls"
        by touching people with
        his common everyday words
        and presence... like everyone
        else does in life. Except,
        HK is more special than
        other Souls because he's
        the M/LEM of a false
        teaching that pretends it's
        "Spiritual."

        What's funny is that Klemp
        thinks he's giving EKists
        a pep talk and is showing
        them how they should act
        or respond to people if they
        are in situations similar to
        his as a result of Karma,
        tests, and/or as channels
        for Spirit.

        What Klemp is clueless of,
        and doesn't know, is that
        most EKists and even more
        non-ECKists have already
        responded in ways surpassing
        Klemp's experience with his
        non-lifethreatening injury.

        Prometheus

      • postekcon
        You are Ssoooo right. This question bothered me all my time in ekult! A lot of lip-service to service per-se, but the bottom line was, only service TO
        Message 3 of 9 , Sep 6, 2012
        • 0 Attachment
          You are Ssoooo right. This question bothered me all my time in ekult!

          A lot of lip-service to 'service' per-se, but the bottom line was, only 'service' TO ekult was recorded as 'service'?

          This is NOT the way the Universe works, service to the one; to the exclusion of the other!
          -Postekcon


          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Janice Pfeiffer <jepfeiffer@...> wrote:
          >
          > What occurs to me is if the lem says we are here to serve others then why is it that as members you are only given duties that serves eckankar.  I never heard of any work going on in eckankar that benefited anything but eckankar.  Most activities are geared to drag in new members period..
          >
          > --- On Tue, 9/4/12, prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
          > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] HK's Broken-Hip and Fear of an Inoculation!
          > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: Tuesday, September 4, 2012, 9:34 PM
          >
          >
          >
          >  
          >
          >
          >
          > Hello All,
          > I thought I'd bring
          > this back to the front
          > page----and share
          > Klemp's Wisdom Notes
          > from the 09/2012
          > The Mystic World.
          >
          > HK starts off by
          > saying that Eckankar
          > is for "lovers of life"
          > and that people need
          > not worry by thinking
          > it is a requirement
          > to sacrifice your life
          > to be a Co-worker
          > with the Mahanta.
          >
          > Klemp then poses
          > some "What If" questions.
          > Like, what if an astroid
          > hit causing devastation.
          > What would you do?
          >
          > "My words here are not
          > a foreshadowing of a
          > planetary disaster, BUT
          > a gentle reminder that
          > we exist to serve others."
          >
          > Well, there it is again.
          > Another pitch for service!
          > Klemp needs his volunteer
          > sales staff.
          >
          > Klemp even brings up what
          > happened to the Atlanteans
          > since they "turned from love
          > and service to a grab for
          > power and conquest." See
          > what happens when ECKists
          > don't volunteer! Plus, an
          > ECKist volunteering would
          > equate to how many non-
          > ECKists not volunteering?
          > Are HK's chelas mini-holding
          > tanks for the world's Karma?
          > However, HK does alleviate
          > some possible fears/concerns
          > by saying "a global disaster
          > need not happen." So, be of
          > service!
          >
          > "The mental energies of a
          > people turned toward evil
          > do rebound upon them. It
          > is called national karma."
          >
          > It would seem that this same
          > "rebound karma" would apply
          > to religions as well. It is called
          > religious karma.
          >
          > Here's something he says
          > regarding the negative forces
          > that applies to himself, too,
          > and yet he doesn't see the
          > irony in his words. "... so is
          > it any wonder that the few
          > command the many and are
          > apt to show a blatant disregard
          > for the wishes of the latter."
          > Sounds like Klemp is speaking
          > of himself. He's a tyrant who
          > can't and won't accept constructive
          > criticism. It's a One-Way street
          > and it runs his way! ECKists
          > aren't permitted to have differing
          > views... he's always right,
          > although, he claims not to
          > be perfect. That's a Catch-22!
          >
          > "BUT that is the heavy-handed
          > nature of power in the hands
          > of spiritual adolescents. So we
          > see more autocratic or tyrannical
          > rulers than good or wise ones
          > who rule according to the law
          > of divine love."
          >
          > See, I told you that Klemp can't
          > look into the mirror and see the
          > truth. He only sees his narcissistic
          > self!
          >
          > HK then talks to ECKists about
          > choosing between following:
          > "God's law or man's law. There
          > will be consequences.... for civil
          > disobedience... Again, God's law
          > or man's law? The issue for an
          > ECKist is freedom of conscience."
          >
          > Yet, look at what freedoms
          > ECKists have within ECKankar!
          > Not that many... it's a power
          > based hierarchy ruled locally
          > by the RESAs' Police Force.
          >
          > And, let's ponder whether
          > these ECK Laws are all that
          > "high." In fact they are all of
          > the Mental Plane and were,
          > thus, created by mankind.
          > Plus, "God" is actually the
          > KAL (according to Eckankar)
          > and is the Negative Force
          > in charge of the earth.
          >
          > ***************************
          > KLEMP ON INOCULATIONS:
          >
          > This next paragraph is a real
          > eye-opener! Did you know
          > that ECKists have a RELIGIOUS
          > ISSUE regarding inoculations?
          >
          > Klemp mentions, that while
          > in the hospital with his broken
          > hip, that he refused an inoculation.
          >
          > HK: "Yes, it is a religious issue
          > for us; the inoculation would
          > pose an unacceptable threat
          > to our health."
          >
          > It's kind of strange that Klemp
          > didn't mention which inoculation
          > was an issue. All inoculations
          > or just certain ones like the Flu
          > Shot, Pneumonia, or Shingles?
          > It would be nice to know.
          >
          > However, why is the Mahanta/
          > LEM (Klemp) fearful of an
          > inoculation? Is being a "lover
          > of life," also, being fearful
          > of death? It seems so! And,
          > Klemp is 70 years old and
          > showing his age.
          >
          > Anyway, Klemp says some
          > more things we've all, basically,
          > heard before and ends with:
          > "As always, the fires of karma
          > burn ever so hot and bright,
          > leaving each Soul ever more
          > spiritually refined." Klemp,
          > then, signs off with an
          > "Affectionately, Harold"
          >
          > So, is Klemp afraid of inoculations
          > because of possible karmic
          > retribution? Is his "Holding
          > Tank" full? If it was up to
          > Klemp he'd become a typhoid
          > Harry and spread his disease
          > everywhere. What about being
          > the cause for negativity?
          >
          > Also, I find it interesting that
          > Klemp ends by saying:
          > "Affectionately, Harold"
          >
          > I was looking at Twitchell's
          > old Wisdom Notes and he'd
          > end them with "My Love Is
          > Always With You" or "My
          > Love Protects You."
          >
          > Thus, when Klemp talks
          > about "the law of divine
          > love" it's strange that he
          > ends the article with,
          > "Affectionately."
          >
          > Klemp is the "heavy-handed
          > ruler and tyrant... and
          > spiritual adolescent"
          > that he talked about.
          >
          > This is why HK is fearful
          > of inoculations and hides
          > behind "religious beliefs."
          > He cannot be Detached
          > when he refuses inoculations
          > that others, like I, get. I'm
          > not fearful and I've read
          > the literature with the side-
          > effects. This is the main
          > reason he doesn't mention
          > which inoculation he refused.
          >
          > If it has to do with religious
          > beliefs... what law of God
          > justifies this fearful omission
          > that could, also, jeopardize
          > the health of others?
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
          > *********************
          > In the 09/2012 The
          > Mystic World, Klemp
          > tells of his hospital
          > experience with the
          > nursing staff.
          >
          > BTW- Notice HK's use
          > of BUT and reference
          > my previous post about
          > the use of IF, AND,
          > and especially BUT.
          >
          > I'll comment on the
          > excerpts:
          >
          > Klemp begins with his
          > story by making it seem
          > that his accident was
          > tied into being a channel
          > for the Holy Spirit.
          >
          > If asked, would you do
          > anything for the Holy
          > Spirit? And most would
          > respond, Yes, of course!
          >
          > "BUT what IF it meant
          > a complete change in
          > your way of doing nearly
          > everything?
          >
          > Notice the use of "BUT"
          > and "IF?" Two words EKists
          > are Not to use when
          > communicating with
          > one another.
          >
          > So, Klemp is setting us
          > up with his broken-hip
          > injury, caused by a fall
          > on "black ice," to be
          > something special and
          > spiritual.
          >
          > In fact, life happens!
          > Everyone goes through
          > injuries, pain, and suffering.
          > Klemp is making it seem
          > like his injury was because
          > he's what? Taking on the
          > Karma of his chelas and,
          > thus, he slips and falls?
          >
          > Or, maybe this "Slip & Fall"
          > is a Waking Dream telling
          > ECKists that Klemp has
          > Fallen from Grace! And,
          > the "Black Ice" is telling
          > us that HK's a "Black Magician"
          > like Darwin was! Darwin
          > did give the Rod of Power
          > to Klemp (the 12th initiation)
          > and initiated him with
          > several other Higher Initiations.
          > Plus, DG & HK met secretly
          > (twice, circa 1981-82)
          > in a Sound Proof Dark
          > Room where HK worked.
          > The Light and Sound was
          > kept out of this room
          > while they were preparing
          > for the transition. And,
          > it was Klemp's idea to
          > meet there, and Darwin
          > hesitated when learning
          > it had been previously
          > been converted to a
          > Sound Proof room and
          > was used as a Dark Room
          > by Klemp. However, Gross
          > overlooked his inner nudge
          > and paid the price!
          >
          > Anyway, Klemp mentions:
          > Faye, the RN; Holly, the
          > Physical Therapist; Lori,
          > the Occupational Therapist;
          > Dora, the West African
          > Nurse's Aide.
          >
          > Of course, Klemp claims
          > that everyone was talking
          > about the leader of Eckankar
          > falling on black ice and
          > breaking his hip.
          >
          > BTW- Klemp is pictured
          > at the 2012 EK Springtime
          > Seminar setting in a wheelchair.
          >
          > Anywho, HK talks about
          > Faye, nutrition, and states:
          > "BUT Faye, a member of
          > the Assembly of God church,
          > was determined to be the
          > complete professional. No
          > biases."
          >
          > Apparently Klemp feels the
          > need to give some background
          > on these people to make it
          > sound like he cares about
          > them. What Klemp fails to
          > see is that ECKist, or not,
          > we are all put into these
          > same scenarios or similar
          > situations and make small
          > talk and friends with those
          > who are taking care of us.
          >
          > Klemp, then, mentions that
          > some of Faye's co-workers
          > didn't understand their easy
          > "banter" and thought she was
          > being disrespectful since HK
          > was a preacher, of sorts, and
          > a cultist. "BUT I left her supervisor
          > a glowing commendation about
          > her healing laughter, care,
          > compassion, and understanding."
          >
          > Klemp says, "Do with me as
          > you please." Although, the
          > title of this front page article
          > is "Do With Me As You Will"
          > which is promoting HK's accident
          > as a Karmic sacrifice for his
          > chelas. Klemp's clueless about
          > the sufferings of others because
          > he has always lacked empathy!
          >
          > "Again, the EK had done with me
          > as It would, to better touch Souls
          > ready for the journey home to
          > God." Isn't "God" actually Kal,
          > whereas, Sugmad is different?
          > This is an official EK Pub so why
          > call Sugmad "God," unless, you
          > actually mean God!
          >
          > Next, Klemp mentions Holly
          > his physical therapist. She
          > mentions that, "Tomorrow at
          > this time our divorce will be
          > final." Klemp responds with,
          > "That's great!" Holly shrugs
          > her shoulders indifferently
          > and says, "I guess."
          >
          > Klemp shares his wisdom
          > of this while overlooking
          > the obvious hurt and doubts
          > that Holly is going through
          > by saying, "For her, the past
          > is the past; the present is
          > busy enough. Dear Holly."
          > To me this is a feeble attempt
          > at empathy. Plus, IMO, the
          > past isn't the past, especially,
          > when children are involved.
          >
          > Next comes Lori, Klemp's
          > occupational therapist.
          > He tells about her hunting
          > small game and recounts
          > a story she told that a cougar
          > once stalked her and her
          > husband. "BUT Lori does not
          > hunt cougar: it is a trophy
          > animal. She hunts for meat."
          > I guess that makes it okay
          > to kill.
          >
          > Now comes Dora, the West
          > African (Ghana) nurse's aide.
          > She brought ice for Harry's
          > hip and relayed messages
          > to the RN to bring "more
          > pain medication." "BUT Dora
          > did more, much more. When
          > the pain became nearly unbearable,
          > she laid a warm, encouraging
          > hand on my shoulder. Her
          > eyes, too, said, 'I understand."
          > Odd that Klemp was in so
          > much pain. One would think
          > that a 14th Initiate could HU
          > it away!
          >
          > Anyway, Joan came and picked
          > Harry up with some top ESC
          > staffers. And Klemp ends his
          > "tribute to a few of many
          > beautiful people in the healing
          > field" with these words:
          >
          > "And, Spirit of all living things,
          > I live to hallow Your name
          > among lost and wandering
          > Souls. So do with me as You
          > will."
          >
          > Klemp's con, along with his
          > delusion and narcissism, is
          > making this sound like
          > he's beseeching Spirit in
          > a prayer and giving thanks
          > that he can help "lost Souls"
          > by touching people with
          > his common everyday words
          > and presence... like everyone
          > else does in life. Except,
          > HK is more special than
          > other Souls because he's
          > the M/LEM of a false
          > teaching that pretends it's
          > "Spiritual."
          >
          > What's funny is that Klemp
          > thinks he's giving EKists
          > a pep talk and is showing
          > them how they should act
          > or respond to people if they
          > are in situations similar to
          > his as a result of Karma,
          > tests, and/or as channels
          > for Spirit.
          >
          > What Klemp is clueless of,
          > and doesn't know, is that
          > most EKists and even more
          > non-ECKists have already
          > responded in ways surpassing
          > Klemp's experience with his
          > non-lifethreatening injury.
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
        • prometheus_973
          Hello Postekcon and All, On another note is the topic about inoculations. I would really like to hear some comments and POVs concerning this. Klemp refused an
          Message 4 of 9 , Sep 6, 2012
          • 0 Attachment
            Hello Postekcon and All,

            On another note is the topic
            about inoculations. I would
            really like to hear some comments
            and POVs concerning this.

            Klemp refused an (unknown)
            inoculation at the hospital and
            used the excuse that it was
            a "Religious Issue" when there
            is absolutely no Religious Policy
            concerning inoculations that
            ECKANKAR has ever stated:

            HK: "Yes, it is a religious issue
            for us; the inoculation would
            pose an unacceptable threat to
            our health."


            Plus, Why would the "Mahanta"
            (Klemp) be fearful of this inoculation?

            If he had an allergic reaction to
            this he could use that as the reason
            not to get it, but that's not the case.
            Klemp has a "Religious Issue" with
            getting this vaccine.

            Was it a High Dose Flu Shot (for
            those 65 and older), a pneumonia
            shot, or the shingles vaccine (age
            60 and older)? What was it that
            made this a "Religious Issue" when
            it's never been mentioned before
            by ECKANKAR or by Klemp?

            Now, I can see how it might be
            a personal choice because many
            people have fears of inoculations
            or of needles in general. The CDC
            website, or Walgreens, will give
            people info on prescription drugs
            and on inoculations.

            However, for Klemp to say that
            this was a "Religious Issue" is,
            in my opinion, an attempt to
            save face.

            Klemp can't really admit that
            he has a fear that a life threatening
            reaction might occur. Maybe
            one in a million people could
            be negatively affected depending
            upon their overall health, but
            that's a minute risk compared
            to the illness or malady that
            the inoculation is preventing.

            How would it look for the
            religious leader of this small
            local cult to be fearful of
            the negligible side-effects
            of this vaccine and imagine
            this story being told to others!

            But, for a religious leader
            to decline the inoculation
            by saying it's a "Religious
            Issue" to someone who
            doesn't know anything about
            Eckankar's dogma/belief
            is a more acceptable tactic,
            although, still somewhat
            strange.

            Imagine the effort that EK
            Vahanas are making in
            order to present Eckankar
            as a normal religion with
            no strange behaviors or
            sacrifices, etc. and saying
            "We're just like you" then,
            have Klemp pull this "Religious
            Issue" card on the nursing
            staff!

            One might think, What kind
            of an ignorant, fearful, and
            antiquated cult is this Eckankar?

            Since Klemp had surgery on
            his broken hip and hardware
            put in and maybe a blood
            supplied, anesthesia, various
            drugs and a lot of pain medication
            one has to wonder why he
            declined this vaccine and
            claimed that inoculations (in
            general?) were against his
            Religion!

            I doubt that Klemp found
            out which drugs and anesthesia
            would be used for his surgery
            and recovery process to manage
            pain etc. and researched their
            side-effects and dangers.

            By being the LEM/Mahanta
            he can't just say it's a "religious
            issue" for him and Joan.

            It has now become a "Religious
            Issue" for all ECKists! Except,
            I doubt that many ECKists
            noticed his comments or if
            they did they certainly can't
            ask too many, if any, questions
            about this "Religious Issue"
            and dogma that has never
            before been revealed. And,
            by not mentioning which
            "inoculation" it still hasn't
            been revealed!

            Prometheus
            p.s. To Postekcon:
            Yes, it seems that ECKists
            don't get credit for being
            "servants," i.e. volunteers,
            within their communities.
            It doesn't count toward
            that next initiation. RESAs
            notice these things and
            unless you're a high profile
            professional, i.e. lawyer,
            doctor, or architect, one
            must become an EK volunteer
            in order to advance with
            more and higher initiations.

            Plus, Klemp has slowed
            down the initiation process
            by tying them into physical
            requirements such as
            additional training and
            duties which are, of course,
            voluntary if you want to
            become a cleric, initiator,
            spiritual aide, or RESA.
            And, these titles are tied
            into higher initiations.
            [end]

            postekcon wrote:
            You are Ssoooo right. This question bothered me all my time in ekult!

            A lot of lip-service to 'service' per-se, but the bottom line was, only
            'service' TO ekult was recorded as 'service'?

            This is NOT the way the Universe works, service to the one; to the exclusion of
            the other!
            -Postekcon


            Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
            >
            What occurs to me is if the lem says we are here to serve others then why is
            it that as members you are only given duties that serves eckankar. I never
            heard of any work going on in eckankar that benefited anything but eckankar.
            Most activities are geared to drag in new members period..



            prometheus wrote:
            >
            > Hello All,
            > I thought I'd bring
            > this back to the front
            > page----and share
            > Klemp's Wisdom Notes
            > from the 09/2012
            > The Mystic World.
            >
            > HK starts off by
            > saying that Eckankar
            > is for "lovers of life"
            > and that people need
            > not worry by thinking
            > it is a requirement
            > to sacrifice your life
            > to be a Co-worker
            > with the Mahanta.
            >
            > Klemp then poses
            > some "What If" questions.
            > Like, what if an astroid
            > hit causing devastation.
            > What would you do?
            >
            > "My words here are not
            > a foreshadowing of a
            > planetary disaster, BUT
            > a gentle reminder that
            > we exist to serve others."
            >
            > Well, there it is again.
            > Another pitch for service!
            > Klemp needs his volunteer
            > sales staff.
            >
            > Klemp even brings up what
            > happened to the Atlanteans
            > since they "turned from love
            > and service to a grab for
            > power and conquest." See
            > what happens when ECKists
            > don't volunteer! Plus, an
            > ECKist volunteering would
            > equate to how many non-
            > ECKists not volunteering?
            > Are HK's chelas mini-holding
            > tanks for the world's Karma?
            > However, HK does alleviate
            > some possible fears/concerns
            > by saying "a global disaster
            > need not happen." So, be of
            > service!
            >
            > "The mental energies of a
            > people turned toward evil
            > do rebound upon them. It
            > is called national karma."
            >
            > It would seem that this same
            > "rebound karma" would apply
            > to religions as well. It is called
            > religious karma.
            >
            > Here's something he says
            > regarding the negative forces
            > that applies to himself, too,
            > and yet he doesn't see the
            > irony in his words. "... so is
            > it any wonder that the few
            > command the many and are
            > apt to show a blatant disregard
            > for the wishes of the latter."
            > Sounds like Klemp is speaking
            > of himself. He's a tyrant who
            > can't and won't accept constructive
            > criticism. It's a One-Way street
            > and it runs his way! ECKists
            > aren't permitted to have differing
            > views... he's always right,
            > although, he claims not to
            > be perfect. That's a Catch-22!
            >
            > "BUT that is the heavy-handed
            > nature of power in the hands
            > of spiritual adolescents. So we
            > see more autocratic or tyrannical
            > rulers than good or wise ones
            > who rule according to the law
            > of divine love."
            >
            > See, I told you that Klemp can't
            > look into the mirror and see the
            > truth. He only sees his narcissistic
            > self!
            >
            > HK then talks to ECKists about
            > choosing between following:
            > "God's law or man's law. There
            > will be consequences.... for civil
            > disobedience... Again, God's law
            > or man's law? The issue for an
            > ECKist is freedom of conscience."
            >
            > Yet, look at what freedoms
            > ECKists have within ECKankar!
            > Not that many... it's a power
            > based hierarchy ruled locally
            > by the RESAs' Police Force.
            >
            > And, let's ponder whether
            > these ECK Laws are all that
            > "high." In fact they are all of
            > the Mental Plane and were,
            > thus, created by mankind.
            > Plus, "God" is actually the
            > KAL (according to Eckankar)
            > and is the Negative Force
            > in charge of the earth.
            >
            > ***************************
            > KLEMP ON INOCULATIONS:
            >
            > This next paragraph is a real
            > eye-opener! Did you know
            > that ECKists have a RELIGIOUS
            > ISSUE regarding inoculations?
            >
            > Klemp mentions, that while
            > in the hospital with his broken
            > hip, that he refused an inoculation.
            >
            > HK: "Yes, it is a religious issue
            > for us; the inoculation would
            > pose an unacceptable threat
            > to our health."
            >
            > It's kind of strange that Klemp
            > didn't mention which inoculation
            > was an issue. All inoculations
            > or just certain ones like the Flu
            > Shot, Pneumonia, or Shingles?
            > It would be nice to know.
            >
            > However, why is the Mahanta/
            > LEM (Klemp) fearful of an
            > inoculation? Is being a "lover
            > of life," also, being fearful
            > of death? It seems so! And,
            > Klemp is 70 years old and
            > showing his age.
            >
            > Anyway, Klemp says some
            > more things we've all, basically,
            > heard before and ends with:
            > "As always, the fires of karma
            > burn ever so hot and bright,
            > leaving each Soul ever more
            > spiritually refined." Klemp,
            > then, signs off with an
            > "Affectionately, Harold"
            >
            > So, is Klemp afraid of inoculations
            > because of possible karmic
            > retribution? Is his "Holding
            > Tank" full? If it was up to
            > Klemp he'd become a typhoid
            > Harry and spread his disease
            > everywhere. What about being
            > the cause for negativity?
            >
            > Also, I find it interesting that
            > Klemp ends by saying:
            > "Affectionately, Harold"
            >
            > I was looking at Twitchell's
            > old Wisdom Notes and he'd
            > end them with "My Love Is
            > Always With You" or "My
            > Love Protects You."
            >
            > Thus, when Klemp talks
            > about "the law of divine
            > love" it's strange that he
            > ends the article with,
            > "Affectionately."
            >
            > Klemp is the "heavy-handed
            > ruler and tyrant... and
            > spiritual adolescent"
            > that he talked about.
            >
            > This is why HK is fearful
            > of inoculations and hides
            > behind "religious beliefs."
            > He cannot be Detached
            > when he refuses inoculations
            > that others, like I, get. I'm
            > not fearful and I've read
            > the literature with the side-
            > effects. This is the main
            > reason he doesn't mention
            > which inoculation he refused.
            >
            > If it has to do with religious
            > beliefs... what law of God
            > justifies this fearful omission
            > that could, also, jeopardize
            > the health of others?
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            > *********************
            > In the 09/2012 The
            > Mystic World, Klemp
            > tells of his hospital
            > experience with the
            > nursing staff.
            >
            > BTW- Notice HK's use
            > of BUT and reference
            > my previous post about
            > the use of IF, AND,
            > and especially BUT.
            >
            > I'll comment on the
            > excerpts:
            >
            > Klemp begins with his
            > story by making it seem
            > that his accident was
            > tied into being a channel
            > for the Holy Spirit.
            >
            > If asked, would you do
            > anything for the Holy
            > Spirit? And most would
            > respond, Yes, of course!
            >
            > "BUT what IF it meant
            > a complete change in
            > your way of doing nearly
            > everything?
            >
            > Notice the use of "BUT"
            > and "IF?" Two words EKists
            > are Not to use when
            > communicating with
            > one another.
            >
            > So, Klemp is setting us
            > up with his broken-hip
            > injury, caused by a fall
            > on "black ice," to be
            > something special and
            > spiritual.
            >
            > In fact, life happens!
            > Everyone goes through
            > injuries, pain, and suffering.
            > Klemp is making it seem
            > like his injury was because
            > he's what? Taking on the
            > Karma of his chelas and,
            > thus, he slips and falls?
            >
            > Or, maybe this "Slip & Fall"
            > is a Waking Dream telling
            > ECKists that Klemp has
            > Fallen from Grace! And,
            > the "Black Ice" is telling
            > us that HK's a "Black Magician"
            > like Darwin was! Darwin
            > did give the Rod of Power
            > to Klemp (the 12th initiation)
            > and initiated him with
            > several other Higher Initiations.
            > Plus, DG & HK met secretly
            > (twice, circa 1981-82)
            > in a Sound Proof Dark
            > Room where HK worked.
            > The Light and Sound was
            > kept out of this room
            > while they were preparing
            > for the transition. And,
            > it was Klemp's idea to
            > meet there, and Darwin
            > hesitated when learning
            > it had been previously
            > been converted to a
            > Sound Proof room and
            > was used as a Dark Room
            > by Klemp. However, Gross
            > overlooked his inner nudge
            > and paid the price!
            >
            > Anyway, Klemp mentions:
            > Faye, the RN; Holly, the
            > Physical Therapist; Lori,
            > the Occupational Therapist;
            > Dora, the West African
            > Nurse's Aide.
            >
            > Of course, Klemp claims
            > that everyone was talking
            > about the leader of Eckankar
            > falling on black ice and
            > breaking his hip.
            >
            > BTW- Klemp is pictured
            > at the 2012 EK Springtime
            > Seminar setting in a wheelchair.
            >
            > Anywho, HK talks about
            > Faye, nutrition, and states:
            > "BUT Faye, a member of
            > the Assembly of God church,
            > was determined to be the
            > complete professional. No
            > biases."
            >
            > Apparently Klemp feels the
            > need to give some background
            > on these people to make it
            > sound like he cares about
            > them. What Klemp fails to
            > see is that ECKist, or not,
            > we are all put into these
            > same scenarios or similar
            > situations and make small
            > talk and friends with those
            > who are taking care of us.
            >
            > Klemp, then, mentions that
            > some of Faye's co-workers
            > didn't understand their easy
            > "banter" and thought she was
            > being disrespectful since HK
            > was a preacher, of sorts, and
            > a cultist. "BUT I left her supervisor
            > a glowing commendation about
            > her healing laughter, care,
            > compassion, and understanding."
            >
            > Klemp says, "Do with me as
            > you please." Although, the
            > title of this front page article
            > is "Do With Me As You Will"
            > which is promoting HK's accident
            > as a Karmic sacrifice for his
            > chelas. Klemp's clueless about
            > the sufferings of others because
            > he has always lacked empathy!
            >
            > "Again, the EK had done with me
            > as It would, to better touch Souls
            > ready for the journey home to
            > God." Isn't "God" actually Kal,
            > whereas, Sugmad is different?
            > This is an official EK Pub so why
            > call Sugmad "God," unless, you
            > actually mean God!
            >
            > Next, Klemp mentions Holly
            > his physical therapist. She
            > mentions that, "Tomorrow at
            > this time our divorce will be
            > final." Klemp responds with,
            > "That's great!" Holly shrugs
            > her shoulders indifferently
            > and says, "I guess."
            >
            > Klemp shares his wisdom
            > of this while overlooking
            > the obvious hurt and doubts
            > that Holly is going through
            > by saying, "For her, the past
            > is the past; the present is
            > busy enough. Dear Holly."
            > To me this is a feeble attempt
            > at empathy. Plus, IMO, the
            > past isn't the past, especially,
            > when children are involved.
            >
            > Next comes Lori, Klemp's
            > occupational therapist.
            > He tells about her hunting
            > small game and recounts
            > a story she told that a cougar
            > once stalked her and her
            > husband. "BUT Lori does not
            > hunt cougar: it is a trophy
            > animal. She hunts for meat."
            > I guess that makes it okay
            > to kill.
            >
            > Now comes Dora, the West
            > African (Ghana) nurse's aide.
            > She brought ice for Harry's
            > hip and relayed messages
            > to the RN to bring "more
            > pain medication." "BUT Dora
            > did more, much more. When
            > the pain became nearly unbearable,
            > she laid a warm, encouraging
            > hand on my shoulder. Her
            > eyes, too, said, 'I understand."
            > Odd that Klemp was in so
            > much pain. One would think
            > that a 14th Initiate could HU
            > it away!
            >
            > Anyway, Joan came and picked
            > Harry up with some top ESC
            > staffers. And Klemp ends his
            > "tribute to a few of many
            > beautiful people in the healing
            > field" with these words:
            >
            > "And, Spirit of all living things,
            > I live to hallow Your name
            > among lost and wandering
            > Souls. So do with me as You
            > will."
            >
            > Klemp's con, along with his
            > delusion and narcissism, is
            > making this sound like
            > he's beseeching Spirit in
            > a prayer and giving thanks
            > that he can help "lost Souls"
            > by touching people with
            > his common everyday words
            > and presence... like everyone
            > else does in life. Except,
            > HK is more special than
            > other Souls because he's
            > the M/LEM of a false
            > teaching that pretends it's
            > "Spiritual."
            >
            > What's funny is that Klemp
            > thinks he's giving EKists
            > a pep talk and is showing
            > them how they should act
            > or respond to people if they
            > are in situations similar to
            > his as a result of Karma,
            > tests, and/or as channels
            > for Spirit.
            >
            > What Klemp is clueless of,
            > and doesn't know, is that
            > most EKists and even more
            > non-ECKists have already
            > responded in ways surpassing
            > Klemp's experience with his
            > non-lifethreatening injury.
            >
            > Prometheus
          • postekcon
            There is always some fashion or fad circulating ekult communities. They are usually in health therapy, diet or self-help fields! Most of these fads (like the
            Message 5 of 9 , Sep 7, 2012
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              There is always some fashion or fad circulating ekult communities. They are usually in health therapy, diet or self-help fields! Most of these fads (like the inoculation story) are HK driven, interpreted from his talks and writings. When HK promotes authors such as Dale Carnegie, or some other theories, they became high profile fads for a while.

              I remember one odd fad in my ekult community, it was fashionable to discuss in class NOT taking pain medication for minor ailments etc. But then, as is now, no one discussed WHY!

              The subject of inoculation is a separate issue. One case in point, there is currently a program to eradicate polio in India via inoculation. In 2011, 47,000 new polio cases were logged as vaccine induced!
              -Postekcon


              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hello Postekcon and All,
              >
              > On another note is the topic
              > about inoculations. I would
              > really like to hear some comments
              > and POVs concerning this.
              >
              > Klemp refused an (unknown)
              > inoculation at the hospital and
              > used the excuse that it was
              > a "Religious Issue" when there
              > is absolutely no Religious Policy
              > concerning inoculations that
              > ECKANKAR has ever stated:
              >
              > HK: "Yes, it is a religious issue
              > for us; the inoculation would
              > pose an unacceptable threat to
              > our health."
              >
              >
              > Plus, Why would the "Mahanta"
              > (Klemp) be fearful of this inoculation?
              >
              > If he had an allergic reaction to
              > this he could use that as the reason
              > not to get it, but that's not the case.
              > Klemp has a "Religious Issue" with
              > getting this vaccine.
              >
              > Was it a High Dose Flu Shot (for
              > those 65 and older), a pneumonia
              > shot, or the shingles vaccine (age
              > 60 and older)? What was it that
              > made this a "Religious Issue" when
              > it's never been mentioned before
              > by ECKANKAR or by Klemp?
              >
              > Now, I can see how it might be
              > a personal choice because many
              > people have fears of inoculations
              > or of needles in general. The CDC
              > website, or Walgreens, will give
              > people info on prescription drugs
              > and on inoculations.
              >
              > However, for Klemp to say that
              > this was a "Religious Issue" is,
              > in my opinion, an attempt to
              > save face.
              >
              > Klemp can't really admit that
              > he has a fear that a life threatening
              > reaction might occur. Maybe
              > one in a million people could
              > be negatively affected depending
              > upon their overall health, but
              > that's a minute risk compared
              > to the illness or malady that
              > the inoculation is preventing.
              >
              > How would it look for the
              > religious leader of this small
              > local cult to be fearful of
              > the negligible side-effects
              > of this vaccine and imagine
              > this story being told to others!
              >
              > But, for a religious leader
              > to decline the inoculation
              > by saying it's a "Religious
              > Issue" to someone who
              > doesn't know anything about
              > Eckankar's dogma/belief
              > is a more acceptable tactic,
              > although, still somewhat
              > strange.
              >
              > Imagine the effort that EK
              > Vahanas are making in
              > order to present Eckankar
              > as a normal religion with
              > no strange behaviors or
              > sacrifices, etc. and saying
              > "We're just like you" then,
              > have Klemp pull this "Religious
              > Issue" card on the nursing
              > staff!
              >
              > One might think, What kind
              > of an ignorant, fearful, and
              > antiquated cult is this Eckankar?
              >
              > Since Klemp had surgery on
              > his broken hip and hardware
              > put in and maybe a blood
              > supplied, anesthesia, various
              > drugs and a lot of pain medication
              > one has to wonder why he
              > declined this vaccine and
              > claimed that inoculations (in
              > general?) were against his
              > Religion!
              >
              > I doubt that Klemp found
              > out which drugs and anesthesia
              > would be used for his surgery
              > and recovery process to manage
              > pain etc. and researched their
              > side-effects and dangers.
              >
              > By being the LEM/Mahanta
              > he can't just say it's a "religious
              > issue" for him and Joan.
              >
              > It has now become a "Religious
              > Issue" for all ECKists! Except,
              > I doubt that many ECKists
              > noticed his comments or if
              > they did they certainly can't
              > ask too many, if any, questions
              > about this "Religious Issue"
              > and dogma that has never
              > before been revealed. And,
              > by not mentioning which
              > "inoculation" it still hasn't
              > been revealed!
              >
              > Prometheus
              > p.s. To Postekcon:
              > Yes, it seems that ECKists
              > don't get credit for being
              > "servants," i.e. volunteers,
              > within their communities.
              > It doesn't count toward
              > that next initiation. RESAs
              > notice these things and
              > unless you're a high profile
              > professional, i.e. lawyer,
              > doctor, or architect, one
              > must become an EK volunteer
              > in order to advance with
              > more and higher initiations.
              >
              > Plus, Klemp has slowed
              > down the initiation process
              > by tying them into physical
              > requirements such as
              > additional training and
              > duties which are, of course,
              > voluntary if you want to
              > become a cleric, initiator,
              > spiritual aide, or RESA.
              > And, these titles are tied
              > into higher initiations.
              > [end]
              >
              > postekcon wrote:
              > You are Ssoooo right. This question bothered me all my time in ekult!
              >
              > A lot of lip-service to 'service' per-se, but the bottom line was, only
              > 'service' TO ekult was recorded as 'service'?
              >
              > This is NOT the way the Universe works, service to the one; to the exclusion of
              > the other!
              > -Postekcon
              >
              >
              > Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
              > >
              > What occurs to me is if the lem says we are here to serve others then why is
              > it that as members you are only given duties that serves eckankar. I never
              > heard of any work going on in eckankar that benefited anything but eckankar.
              > Most activities are geared to drag in new members period..
              >
              >
              >
              > prometheus wrote:
              > >
              > > Hello All,
              > > I thought I'd bring
              > > this back to the front
              > > page----and share
              > > Klemp's Wisdom Notes
              > > from the 09/2012
              > > The Mystic World.
              > >
              > > HK starts off by
              > > saying that Eckankar
              > > is for "lovers of life"
              > > and that people need
              > > not worry by thinking
              > > it is a requirement
              > > to sacrifice your life
              > > to be a Co-worker
              > > with the Mahanta.
              > >
              > > Klemp then poses
              > > some "What If" questions.
              > > Like, what if an astroid
              > > hit causing devastation.
              > > What would you do?
              > >
              > > "My words here are not
              > > a foreshadowing of a
              > > planetary disaster, BUT
              > > a gentle reminder that
              > > we exist to serve others."
              > >
              > > Well, there it is again.
              > > Another pitch for service!
              > > Klemp needs his volunteer
              > > sales staff.
              > >
              > > Klemp even brings up what
              > > happened to the Atlanteans
              > > since they "turned from love
              > > and service to a grab for
              > > power and conquest." See
              > > what happens when ECKists
              > > don't volunteer! Plus, an
              > > ECKist volunteering would
              > > equate to how many non-
              > > ECKists not volunteering?
              > > Are HK's chelas mini-holding
              > > tanks for the world's Karma?
              > > However, HK does alleviate
              > > some possible fears/concerns
              > > by saying "a global disaster
              > > need not happen." So, be of
              > > service!
              > >
              > > "The mental energies of a
              > > people turned toward evil
              > > do rebound upon them. It
              > > is called national karma."
              > >
              > > It would seem that this same
              > > "rebound karma" would apply
              > > to religions as well. It is called
              > > religious karma.
              > >
              > > Here's something he says
              > > regarding the negative forces
              > > that applies to himself, too,
              > > and yet he doesn't see the
              > > irony in his words. "... so is
              > > it any wonder that the few
              > > command the many and are
              > > apt to show a blatant disregard
              > > for the wishes of the latter."
              > > Sounds like Klemp is speaking
              > > of himself. He's a tyrant who
              > > can't and won't accept constructive
              > > criticism. It's a One-Way street
              > > and it runs his way! ECKists
              > > aren't permitted to have differing
              > > views... he's always right,
              > > although, he claims not to
              > > be perfect. That's a Catch-22!
              > >
              > > "BUT that is the heavy-handed
              > > nature of power in the hands
              > > of spiritual adolescents. So we
              > > see more autocratic or tyrannical
              > > rulers than good or wise ones
              > > who rule according to the law
              > > of divine love."
              > >
              > > See, I told you that Klemp can't
              > > look into the mirror and see the
              > > truth. He only sees his narcissistic
              > > self!
              > >
              > > HK then talks to ECKists about
              > > choosing between following:
              > > "God's law or man's law. There
              > > will be consequences.... for civil
              > > disobedience... Again, God's law
              > > or man's law? The issue for an
              > > ECKist is freedom of conscience."
              > >
              > > Yet, look at what freedoms
              > > ECKists have within ECKankar!
              > > Not that many... it's a power
              > > based hierarchy ruled locally
              > > by the RESAs' Police Force.
              > >
              > > And, let's ponder whether
              > > these ECK Laws are all that
              > > "high." In fact they are all of
              > > the Mental Plane and were,
              > > thus, created by mankind.
              > > Plus, "God" is actually the
              > > KAL (according to Eckankar)
              > > and is the Negative Force
              > > in charge of the earth.
              > >
              > > ***************************
              > > KLEMP ON INOCULATIONS:
              > >
              > > This next paragraph is a real
              > > eye-opener! Did you know
              > > that ECKists have a RELIGIOUS
              > > ISSUE regarding inoculations?
              > >
              > > Klemp mentions, that while
              > > in the hospital with his broken
              > > hip, that he refused an inoculation.
              > >
              > > HK: "Yes, it is a religious issue
              > > for us; the inoculation would
              > > pose an unacceptable threat
              > > to our health."
              > >
              > > It's kind of strange that Klemp
              > > didn't mention which inoculation
              > > was an issue. All inoculations
              > > or just certain ones like the Flu
              > > Shot, Pneumonia, or Shingles?
              > > It would be nice to know.
              > >
              > > However, why is the Mahanta/
              > > LEM (Klemp) fearful of an
              > > inoculation? Is being a "lover
              > > of life," also, being fearful
              > > of death? It seems so! And,
              > > Klemp is 70 years old and
              > > showing his age.
              > >
              > > Anyway, Klemp says some
              > > more things we've all, basically,
              > > heard before and ends with:
              > > "As always, the fires of karma
              > > burn ever so hot and bright,
              > > leaving each Soul ever more
              > > spiritually refined." Klemp,
              > > then, signs off with an
              > > "Affectionately, Harold"
              > >
              > > So, is Klemp afraid of inoculations
              > > because of possible karmic
              > > retribution? Is his "Holding
              > > Tank" full? If it was up to
              > > Klemp he'd become a typhoid
              > > Harry and spread his disease
              > > everywhere. What about being
              > > the cause for negativity?
              > >
              > > Also, I find it interesting that
              > > Klemp ends by saying:
              > > "Affectionately, Harold"
              > >
              > > I was looking at Twitchell's
              > > old Wisdom Notes and he'd
              > > end them with "My Love Is
              > > Always With You" or "My
              > > Love Protects You."
              > >
              > > Thus, when Klemp talks
              > > about "the law of divine
              > > love" it's strange that he
              > > ends the article with,
              > > "Affectionately."
              > >
              > > Klemp is the "heavy-handed
              > > ruler and tyrant... and
              > > spiritual adolescent"
              > > that he talked about.
              > >
              > > This is why HK is fearful
              > > of inoculations and hides
              > > behind "religious beliefs."
              > > He cannot be Detached
              > > when he refuses inoculations
              > > that others, like I, get. I'm
              > > not fearful and I've read
              > > the literature with the side-
              > > effects. This is the main
              > > reason he doesn't mention
              > > which inoculation he refused.
              > >
              > > If it has to do with religious
              > > beliefs... what law of God
              > > justifies this fearful omission
              > > that could, also, jeopardize
              > > the health of others?
              > >
              > > Prometheus
              > >
              > > *********************
              > > In the 09/2012 The
              > > Mystic World, Klemp
              > > tells of his hospital
              > > experience with the
              > > nursing staff.
              > >
              > > BTW- Notice HK's use
              > > of BUT and reference
              > > my previous post about
              > > the use of IF, AND,
              > > and especially BUT.
              > >
              > > I'll comment on the
              > > excerpts:
              > >
              > > Klemp begins with his
              > > story by making it seem
              > > that his accident was
              > > tied into being a channel
              > > for the Holy Spirit.
              > >
              > > If asked, would you do
              > > anything for the Holy
              > > Spirit? And most would
              > > respond, Yes, of course!
              > >
              > > "BUT what IF it meant
              > > a complete change in
              > > your way of doing nearly
              > > everything?
              > >
              > > Notice the use of "BUT"
              > > and "IF?" Two words EKists
              > > are Not to use when
              > > communicating with
              > > one another.
              > >
              > > So, Klemp is setting us
              > > up with his broken-hip
              > > injury, caused by a fall
              > > on "black ice," to be
              > > something special and
              > > spiritual.
              > >
              > > In fact, life happens!
              > > Everyone goes through
              > > injuries, pain, and suffering.
              > > Klemp is making it seem
              > > like his injury was because
              > > he's what? Taking on the
              > > Karma of his chelas and,
              > > thus, he slips and falls?
              > >
              > > Or, maybe this "Slip & Fall"
              > > is a Waking Dream telling
              > > ECKists that Klemp has
              > > Fallen from Grace! And,
              > > the "Black Ice" is telling
              > > us that HK's a "Black Magician"
              > > like Darwin was! Darwin
              > > did give the Rod of Power
              > > to Klemp (the 12th initiation)
              > > and initiated him with
              > > several other Higher Initiations.
              > > Plus, DG & HK met secretly
              > > (twice, circa 1981-82)
              > > in a Sound Proof Dark
              > > Room where HK worked.
              > > The Light and Sound was
              > > kept out of this room
              > > while they were preparing
              > > for the transition. And,
              > > it was Klemp's idea to
              > > meet there, and Darwin
              > > hesitated when learning
              > > it had been previously
              > > been converted to a
              > > Sound Proof room and
              > > was used as a Dark Room
              > > by Klemp. However, Gross
              > > overlooked his inner nudge
              > > and paid the price!
              > >
              > > Anyway, Klemp mentions:
              > > Faye, the RN; Holly, the
              > > Physical Therapist; Lori,
              > > the Occupational Therapist;
              > > Dora, the West African
              > > Nurse's Aide.
              > >
              > > Of course, Klemp claims
              > > that everyone was talking
              > > about the leader of Eckankar
              > > falling on black ice and
              > > breaking his hip.
              > >
              > > BTW- Klemp is pictured
              > > at the 2012 EK Springtime
              > > Seminar setting in a wheelchair.
              > >
              > > Anywho, HK talks about
              > > Faye, nutrition, and states:
              > > "BUT Faye, a member of
              > > the Assembly of God church,
              > > was determined to be the
              > > complete professional. No
              > > biases."
              > >
              > > Apparently Klemp feels the
              > > need to give some background
              > > on these people to make it
              > > sound like he cares about
              > > them. What Klemp fails to
              > > see is that ECKist, or not,
              > > we are all put into these
              > > same scenarios or similar
              > > situations and make small
              > > talk and friends with those
              > > who are taking care of us.
              > >
              > > Klemp, then, mentions that
              > > some of Faye's co-workers
              > > didn't understand their easy
              > > "banter" and thought she was
              > > being disrespectful since HK
              > > was a preacher, of sorts, and
              > > a cultist. "BUT I left her supervisor
              > > a glowing commendation about
              > > her healing laughter, care,
              > > compassion, and understanding."
              > >
              > > Klemp says, "Do with me as
              > > you please." Although, the
              > > title of this front page article
              > > is "Do With Me As You Will"
              > > which is promoting HK's accident
              > > as a Karmic sacrifice for his
              > > chelas. Klemp's clueless about
              > > the sufferings of others because
              > > he has always lacked empathy!
              > >
              > > "Again, the EK had done with me
              > > as It would, to better touch Souls
              > > ready for the journey home to
              > > God." Isn't "God" actually Kal,
              > > whereas, Sugmad is different?
              > > This is an official EK Pub so why
              > > call Sugmad "God," unless, you
              > > actually mean God!
              > >
              > > Next, Klemp mentions Holly
              > > his physical therapist. She
              > > mentions that, "Tomorrow at
              > > this time our divorce will be
              > > final." Klemp responds with,
              > > "That's great!" Holly shrugs
              > > her shoulders indifferently
              > > and says, "I guess."
              > >
              > > Klemp shares his wisdom
              > > of this while overlooking
              > > the obvious hurt and doubts
              > > that Holly is going through
              > > by saying, "For her, the past
              > > is the past; the present is
              > > busy enough. Dear Holly."
              > > To me this is a feeble attempt
              > > at empathy. Plus, IMO, the
              > > past isn't the past, especially,
              > > when children are involved.
              > >
              > > Next comes Lori, Klemp's
              > > occupational therapist.
              > > He tells about her hunting
              > > small game and recounts
              > > a story she told that a cougar
              > > once stalked her and her
              > > husband. "BUT Lori does not
              > > hunt cougar: it is a trophy
              > > animal. She hunts for meat."
              > > I guess that makes it okay
              > > to kill.
              > >
              > > Now comes Dora, the West
              > > African (Ghana) nurse's aide.
              > > She brought ice for Harry's
              > > hip and relayed messages
              > > to the RN to bring "more
              > > pain medication." "BUT Dora
              > > did more, much more. When
              > > the pain became nearly unbearable,
              > > she laid a warm, encouraging
              > > hand on my shoulder. Her
              > > eyes, too, said, 'I understand."
              > > Odd that Klemp was in so
              > > much pain. One would think
              > > that a 14th Initiate could HU
              > > it away!
              > >
              > > Anyway, Joan came and picked
              > > Harry up with some top ESC
              > > staffers. And Klemp ends his
              > > "tribute to a few of many
              > > beautiful people in the healing
              > > field" with these words:
              > >
              > > "And, Spirit of all living things,
              > > I live to hallow Your name
              > > among lost and wandering
              > > Souls. So do with me as You
              > > will."
              > >
              > > Klemp's con, along with his
              > > delusion and narcissism, is
              > > making this sound like
              > > he's beseeching Spirit in
              > > a prayer and giving thanks
              > > that he can help "lost Souls"
              > > by touching people with
              > > his common everyday words
              > > and presence... like everyone
              > > else does in life. Except,
              > > HK is more special than
              > > other Souls because he's
              > > the M/LEM of a false
              > > teaching that pretends it's
              > > "Spiritual."
              > >
              > > What's funny is that Klemp
              > > thinks he's giving EKists
              > > a pep talk and is showing
              > > them how they should act
              > > or respond to people if they
              > > are in situations similar to
              > > his as a result of Karma,
              > > tests, and/or as channels
              > > for Spirit.
              > >
              > > What Klemp is clueless of,
              > > and doesn't know, is that
              > > most EKists and even more
              > > non-ECKists have already
              > > responded in ways surpassing
              > > Klemp's experience with his
              > > non-lifethreatening injury.
              > >
              > > Prometheus
              >
            • prometheus_973
              Hello Postekcon and All, Here s what I found on the polio vaccines: How is the vaccine administered? IPV is given as a shot in the arm or leg. OPV is given as
              Message 6 of 9 , Sep 7, 2012
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                Hello Postekcon and All,
                Here's what I found on
                the polio vaccines:

                "How is the vaccine administered?

                IPV is given as a shot in the arm or leg.
                OPV is given as an oral liquid.

                OPV is no longer used in the United States,
                but is still given in other parts of the world
                where polio is common.

                Why was the U.S. polio immunization
                recommendation changed from OPV
                to IPV?

                The change to an all-IPV schedule
                in the United States occurred because
                the Few Cases of polio that were
                occurring (8-10 per year) were
                caused by the OPV vaccine itself
                and not the wild virus.

                The change to IPV protects
                individuals against paralytic polio,
                while eliminating the small chance
                (about Once in Every 2.4 Million Doses)
                of Actually Contracting Polio From
                The Live Oral Vaccine.

                OPV is better at stopping the spread
                of the virus to others, but now that
                wild (natural) polio has been eliminated
                from the Western Hemisphere, this
                advantage is no longer a consideration
                in the United States.

                IPV has been used exclusively
                in the United States since 2000.
                However, in other countries
                where wild polio is still a threat,
                OPV is still used."

                So, whether urban legend, an
                old wives tales, superstition
                misinformation or mitigating
                circumstances the numbers
                don't match. For instance, the
                above information states that
                Once out of 2.4 Million Doses
                will a person contract polio
                from the Live Oral Vaccine.

                Therefore, 47,000 cases could
                not have been vaccine induced,
                unless, the vaccine was stored
                improperly and became contaminated
                and/or inert.

                Anyhow, the point I was making
                is that Eckankar has No Policy/Rule
                stating that vaccines Should Not
                be taken because it would "pose
                an unacceptable threat to our
                health." Therefore how is this
                a "Religious Issue" for ECKists
                when it's never been documented
                as an issue?

                Does this mean that EK children
                should not be vaccinated due
                to Religious Rules/Issues?

                When did Eckankar adopt anti-drug
                policies like Christian Science?

                Besides, these ad hoc policies
                that Klemp seems to be creating
                are arbitrary. Klemp never looked
                into the dangers or side-effects
                of the drugs that his anesthesiologist
                used.

                Plus. Klemp was taking pain medication
                and asked "Dora" (the nurse's aide)
                to relay his request for more "when
                the pain became nearly unbearable."
                If anyone has taken strong prescription
                pain medication and reads the description
                and side-effects they will see that
                there can be many risks to one's
                health.

                What, according to Klemp, makes
                one drug acceptable while others
                "pose an unacceptable threat to
                our health?"

                And, I'll bet Klemp was prescribed
                some anti-inflamatory drugs as well,
                and these can be dangerous to take
                too.

                However, when it comes to some
                unknown inoculation he balks and
                plays the religious card as an excuse
                for his ignorance and fear.

                Prometheus






                "postekcon" wrote:
                >
                >
                > There is always some fashion or fad circulating ekult communities. They are usually in health therapy, diet or self-help fields! Most of these fads (like the inoculation story) are HK driven, interpreted from his talks and writings. When HK promotes authors such as Dale Carnegie, or some other theories, they became high profile fads for a while.
                >
                > I remember one odd fad in my ekult community, it was fashionable to discuss in class NOT taking pain medication for minor ailments etc. But then, as is now, no one discussed WHY!
                >
                > The subject of inoculation is a separate issue. One case in point, there is currently a program to eradicate polio in India via inoculation. In 2011, 47,000 new polio cases were logged as vaccine induced!
                > -Postekcon
                >
                >
                "prometheus_wrote:
                > >
                > > Hello Postekcon and All,
                > >
                > > On another note is the topic
                > > about inoculations. I would
                > > really like to hear some comments
                > > and POVs concerning this.
                > >
                > > Klemp refused an (unknown)
                > > inoculation at the hospital and
                > > used the excuse that it was
                > > a "Religious Issue" when there
                > > is absolutely no Religious Policy
                > > concerning inoculations that
                > > ECKANKAR has ever stated:
                > >
                > > HK: "Yes, it is a religious issue
                > > for us; the inoculation would
                > > pose an unacceptable threat to
                > > our health."
                > >
                > >
                > > Plus, Why would the "Mahanta"
                > > (Klemp) be fearful of this inoculation?
                > >
                > > If he had an allergic reaction to
                > > this he could use that as the reason
                > > not to get it, but that's not the case.
                > > Klemp has a "Religious Issue" with
                > > getting this vaccine.
                > >
                > > Was it a High Dose Flu Shot (for
                > > those 65 and older), a pneumonia
                > > shot, or the shingles vaccine (age
                > > 60 and older)? What was it that
                > > made this a "Religious Issue" when
                > > it's never been mentioned before
                > > by ECKANKAR or by Klemp?
                > >
                > > Now, I can see how it might be
                > > a personal choice because many
                > > people have fears of inoculations
                > > or of needles in general. The CDC
                > > website, or Walgreens, will give
                > > people info on prescription drugs
                > > and on inoculations.
                > >
                > > However, for Klemp to say that
                > > this was a "Religious Issue" is,
                > > in my opinion, an attempt to
                > > save face.
                > >
                > > Klemp can't really admit that
                > > he has a fear that a life threatening
                > > reaction might occur. Maybe
                > > one in a million people could
                > > be negatively affected depending
                > > upon their overall health, but
                > > that's a minute risk compared
                > > to the illness or malady that
                > > the inoculation is preventing.
                > >
                > > How would it look for the
                > > religious leader of this small
                > > local cult to be fearful of
                > > the negligible side-effects
                > > of this vaccine and imagine
                > > this story being told to others!
                > >
                > > But, for a religious leader
                > > to decline the inoculation
                > > by saying it's a "Religious
                > > Issue" to someone who
                > > doesn't know anything about
                > > Eckankar's dogma/belief
                > > is a more acceptable tactic,
                > > although, still somewhat
                > > strange.
                > >
                > > Imagine the effort that EK
                > > Vahanas are making in
                > > order to present Eckankar
                > > as a normal religion with
                > > no strange behaviors or
                > > sacrifices, etc. and saying
                > > "We're just like you" then,
                > > have Klemp pull this "Religious
                > > Issue" card on the nursing
                > > staff!
                > >
                > > One might think, What kind
                > > of an ignorant, fearful, and
                > > antiquated cult is this Eckankar?
                > >
                > > Since Klemp had surgery on
                > > his broken hip and hardware
                > > put in and maybe a blood
                > > supplied, anesthesia, various
                > > drugs and a lot of pain medication
                > > one has to wonder why he
                > > declined this vaccine and
                > > claimed that inoculations (in
                > > general?) were against his
                > > Religion!
                > >
                > > I doubt that Klemp found
                > > out which drugs and anesthesia
                > > would be used for his surgery
                > > and recovery process to manage
                > > pain etc. and researched their
                > > side-effects and dangers.
                > >
                > > By being the LEM/Mahanta
                > > he can't just say it's a "religious
                > > issue" for him and Joan.
                > >
                > > It has now become a "Religious
                > > Issue" for all ECKists! Except,
                > > I doubt that many ECKists
                > > noticed his comments or if
                > > they did they certainly can't
                > > ask too many, if any, questions
                > > about this "Religious Issue"
                > > and dogma that has never
                > > before been revealed. And,
                > > by not mentioning which
                > > "inoculation" it still hasn't
                > > been revealed!
                > >
                > > Prometheus
                > > p.s. To Postekcon:
                > > Yes, it seems that ECKists
                > > don't get credit for being
                > > "servants," i.e. volunteers,
                > > within their communities.
                > > It doesn't count toward
                > > that next initiation. RESAs
                > > notice these things and
                > > unless you're a high profile
                > > professional, i.e. lawyer,
                > > doctor, or architect, one
                > > must become an EK volunteer
                > > in order to advance with
                > > more and higher initiations.
                > >
                > > Plus, Klemp has slowed
                > > down the initiation process
                > > by tying them into physical
                > > requirements such as
                > > additional training and
                > > duties which are, of course,
                > > voluntary if you want to
                > > become a cleric, initiator,
                > > spiritual aide, or RESA.
                > > And, these titles are tied
                > > into higher initiations.
                > > [end]
                > >
                > > postekcon wrote:
                > > You are Ssoooo right. This question bothered me all my time in ekult!
                > >
                > > A lot of lip-service to 'service' per-se, but the bottom line was, only
                > > 'service' TO ekult was recorded as 'service'?
                > >
                > > This is NOT the way the Universe works, service to the one; to the exclusion of
                > > the other!
                > > -Postekcon
                > >
                > >
                > > Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
                > > >
                > > What occurs to me is if the lem says we are here to serve others then why is
                > > it that as members you are only given duties that serves eckankar. I never
                > > heard of any work going on in eckankar that benefited anything but eckankar.
                > > Most activities are geared to drag in new members period..
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > prometheus wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Hello All,
                > > > I thought I'd bring
                > > > this back to the front
                > > > page----and share
                > > > Klemp's Wisdom Notes
                > > > from the 09/2012
                > > > The Mystic World.
                > > >
                > > > HK starts off by
                > > > saying that Eckankar
                > > > is for "lovers of life"
                > > > and that people need
                > > > not worry by thinking
                > > > it is a requirement
                > > > to sacrifice your life
                > > > to be a Co-worker
                > > > with the Mahanta.
                > > >
                > > > Klemp then poses
                > > > some "What If" questions.
                > > > Like, what if an astroid
                > > > hit causing devastation.
                > > > What would you do?
                > > >
                > > > "My words here are not
                > > > a foreshadowing of a
                > > > planetary disaster, BUT
                > > > a gentle reminder that
                > > > we exist to serve others."
                > > >
                > > > Well, there it is again.
                > > > Another pitch for service!
                > > > Klemp needs his volunteer
                > > > sales staff.
                > > >
                > > > Klemp even brings up what
                > > > happened to the Atlanteans
                > > > since they "turned from love
                > > > and service to a grab for
                > > > power and conquest." See
                > > > what happens when ECKists
                > > > don't volunteer! Plus, an
                > > > ECKist volunteering would
                > > > equate to how many non-
                > > > ECKists not volunteering?
                > > > Are HK's chelas mini-holding
                > > > tanks for the world's Karma?
                > > > However, HK does alleviate
                > > > some possible fears/concerns
                > > > by saying "a global disaster
                > > > need not happen." So, be of
                > > > service!
                > > >
                > > > "The mental energies of a
                > > > people turned toward evil
                > > > do rebound upon them. It
                > > > is called national karma."
                > > >
                > > > It would seem that this same
                > > > "rebound karma" would apply
                > > > to religions as well. It is called
                > > > religious karma.
                > > >
                > > > Here's something he says
                > > > regarding the negative forces
                > > > that applies to himself, too,
                > > > and yet he doesn't see the
                > > > irony in his words. "... so is
                > > > it any wonder that the few
                > > > command the many and are
                > > > apt to show a blatant disregard
                > > > for the wishes of the latter."
                > > > Sounds like Klemp is speaking
                > > > of himself. He's a tyrant who
                > > > can't and won't accept constructive
                > > > criticism. It's a One-Way street
                > > > and it runs his way! ECKists
                > > > aren't permitted to have differing
                > > > views... he's always right,
                > > > although, he claims not to
                > > > be perfect. That's a Catch-22!
                > > >
                > > > "BUT that is the heavy-handed
                > > > nature of power in the hands
                > > > of spiritual adolescents. So we
                > > > see more autocratic or tyrannical
                > > > rulers than good or wise ones
                > > > who rule according to the law
                > > > of divine love."
                > > >
                > > > See, I told you that Klemp can't
                > > > look into the mirror and see the
                > > > truth. He only sees his narcissistic
                > > > self!
                > > >
                > > > HK then talks to ECKists about
                > > > choosing between following:
                > > > "God's law or man's law. There
                > > > will be consequences.... for civil
                > > > disobedience... Again, God's law
                > > > or man's law? The issue for an
                > > > ECKist is freedom of conscience."
                > > >
                > > > Yet, look at what freedoms
                > > > ECKists have within ECKankar!
                > > > Not that many... it's a power
                > > > based hierarchy ruled locally
                > > > by the RESAs' Police Force.
                > > >
                > > > And, let's ponder whether
                > > > these ECK Laws are all that
                > > > "high." In fact they are all of
                > > > the Mental Plane and were,
                > > > thus, created by mankind.
                > > > Plus, "God" is actually the
                > > > KAL (according to Eckankar)
                > > > and is the Negative Force
                > > > in charge of the earth.
                > > >
                > > > ***************************
                > > > KLEMP ON INOCULATIONS:
                > > >
                > > > This next paragraph is a real
                > > > eye-opener! Did you know
                > > > that ECKists have a RELIGIOUS
                > > > ISSUE regarding inoculations?
                > > >
                > > > Klemp mentions, that while
                > > > in the hospital with his broken
                > > > hip, that he refused an inoculation.
                > > >
                > > > HK: "Yes, it is a religious issue
                > > > for us; the inoculation would
                > > > pose an unacceptable threat
                > > > to our health."
                > > >
                > > > It's kind of strange that Klemp
                > > > didn't mention which inoculation
                > > > was an issue. All inoculations
                > > > or just certain ones like the Flu
                > > > Shot, Pneumonia, or Shingles?
                > > > It would be nice to know.
                > > >
                > > > However, why is the Mahanta/
                > > > LEM (Klemp) fearful of an
                > > > inoculation? Is being a "lover
                > > > of life," also, being fearful
                > > > of death? It seems so! And,
                > > > Klemp is 70 years old and
                > > > showing his age.
                > > >
                > > > Anyway, Klemp says some
                > > > more things we've all, basically,
                > > > heard before and ends with:
                > > > "As always, the fires of karma
                > > > burn ever so hot and bright,
                > > > leaving each Soul ever more
                > > > spiritually refined." Klemp,
                > > > then, signs off with an
                > > > "Affectionately, Harold"
                > > >
                > > > So, is Klemp afraid of inoculations
                > > > because of possible karmic
                > > > retribution? Is his "Holding
                > > > Tank" full? If it was up to
                > > > Klemp he'd become a typhoid
                > > > Harry and spread his disease
                > > > everywhere. What about being
                > > > the cause for negativity?
                > > >
                > > > Also, I find it interesting that
                > > > Klemp ends by saying:
                > > > "Affectionately, Harold"
                > > >
                > > > I was looking at Twitchell's
                > > > old Wisdom Notes and he'd
                > > > end them with "My Love Is
                > > > Always With You" or "My
                > > > Love Protects You."
                > > >
                > > > Thus, when Klemp talks
                > > > about "the law of divine
                > > > love" it's strange that he
                > > > ends the article with,
                > > > "Affectionately."
                > > >
                > > > Klemp is the "heavy-handed
                > > > ruler and tyrant... and
                > > > spiritual adolescent"
                > > > that he talked about.
                > > >
                > > > This is why HK is fearful
                > > > of inoculations and hides
                > > > behind "religious beliefs."
                > > > He cannot be Detached
                > > > when he refuses inoculations
                > > > that others, like I, get. I'm
                > > > not fearful and I've read
                > > > the literature with the side-
                > > > effects. This is the main
                > > > reason he doesn't mention
                > > > which inoculation he refused.
                > > >
                > > > If it has to do with religious
                > > > beliefs... what law of God
                > > > justifies this fearful omission
                > > > that could, also, jeopardize
                > > > the health of others?
                > > >
                > > > Prometheus
                > > >
                > > > *********************
                > > > In the 09/2012 The
                > > > Mystic World, Klemp
                > > > tells of his hospital
                > > > experience with the
                > > > nursing staff.
                > > >
                > > > BTW- Notice HK's use
                > > > of BUT and reference
                > > > my previous post about
                > > > the use of IF, AND,
                > > > and especially BUT.
                > > >
                > > > I'll comment on the
                > > > excerpts:
                > > >
                > > > Klemp begins with his
                > > > story by making it seem
                > > > that his accident was
                > > > tied into being a channel
                > > > for the Holy Spirit.
                > > >
                > > > If asked, would you do
                > > > anything for the Holy
                > > > Spirit? And most would
                > > > respond, Yes, of course!
                > > >
                > > > "BUT what IF it meant
                > > > a complete change in
                > > > your way of doing nearly
                > > > everything?
                > > >
                > > > Notice the use of "BUT"
                > > > and "IF?" Two words EKists
                > > > are Not to use when
                > > > communicating with
                > > > one another.
                > > >
                > > > So, Klemp is setting us
                > > > up with his broken-hip
                > > > injury, caused by a fall
                > > > on "black ice," to be
                > > > something special and
                > > > spiritual.
                > > >
                > > > In fact, life happens!
                > > > Everyone goes through
                > > > injuries, pain, and suffering.
                > > > Klemp is making it seem
                > > > like his injury was because
                > > > he's what? Taking on the
                > > > Karma of his chelas and,
                > > > thus, he slips and falls?
                > > >
                > > > Or, maybe this "Slip & Fall"
                > > > is a Waking Dream telling
                > > > ECKists that Klemp has
                > > > Fallen from Grace! And,
                > > > the "Black Ice" is telling
                > > > us that HK's a "Black Magician"
                > > > like Darwin was! Darwin
                > > > did give the Rod of Power
                > > > to Klemp (the 12th initiation)
                > > > and initiated him with
                > > > several other Higher Initiations.
                > > > Plus, DG & HK met secretly
                > > > (twice, circa 1981-82)
                > > > in a Sound Proof Dark
                > > > Room where HK worked.
                > > > The Light and Sound was
                > > > kept out of this room
                > > > while they were preparing
                > > > for the transition. And,
                > > > it was Klemp's idea to
                > > > meet there, and Darwin
                > > > hesitated when learning
                > > > it had been previously
                > > > been converted to a
                > > > Sound Proof room and
                > > > was used as a Dark Room
                > > > by Klemp. However, Gross
                > > > overlooked his inner nudge
                > > > and paid the price!
                > > >
                > > > Anyway, Klemp mentions:
                > > > Faye, the RN; Holly, the
                > > > Physical Therapist; Lori,
                > > > the Occupational Therapist;
                > > > Dora, the West African
                > > > Nurse's Aide.
                > > >
                > > > Of course, Klemp claims
                > > > that everyone was talking
                > > > about the leader of Eckankar
                > > > falling on black ice and
                > > > breaking his hip.
                > > >
                > > > BTW- Klemp is pictured
                > > > at the 2012 EK Springtime
                > > > Seminar setting in a wheelchair.
                > > >
                > > > Anywho, HK talks about
                > > > Faye, nutrition, and states:
                > > > "BUT Faye, a member of
                > > > the Assembly of God church,
                > > > was determined to be the
                > > > complete professional. No
                > > > biases."
                > > >
                > > > Apparently Klemp feels the
                > > > need to give some background
                > > > on these people to make it
                > > > sound like he cares about
                > > > them. What Klemp fails to
                > > > see is that ECKist, or not,
                > > > we are all put into these
                > > > same scenarios or similar
                > > > situations and make small
                > > > talk and friends with those
                > > > who are taking care of us.
                > > >
                > > > Klemp, then, mentions that
                > > > some of Faye's co-workers
                > > > didn't understand their easy
                > > > "banter" and thought she was
                > > > being disrespectful since HK
                > > > was a preacher, of sorts, and
                > > > a cultist. "BUT I left her supervisor
                > > > a glowing commendation about
                > > > her healing laughter, care,
                > > > compassion, and understanding."
                > > >
                > > > Klemp says, "Do with me as
                > > > you please." Although, the
                > > > title of this front page article
                > > > is "Do With Me As You Will"
                > > > which is promoting HK's accident
                > > > as a Karmic sacrifice for his
                > > > chelas. Klemp's clueless about
                > > > the sufferings of others because
                > > > he has always lacked empathy!
                > > >
                > > > "Again, the EK had done with me
                > > > as It would, to better touch Souls
                > > > ready for the journey home to
                > > > God." Isn't "God" actually Kal,
                > > > whereas, Sugmad is different?
                > > > This is an official EK Pub so why
                > > > call Sugmad "God," unless, you
                > > > actually mean God!
                > > >
                > > > Next, Klemp mentions Holly
                > > > his physical therapist. She
                > > > mentions that, "Tomorrow at
                > > > this time our divorce will be
                > > > final." Klemp responds with,
                > > > "That's great!" Holly shrugs
                > > > her shoulders indifferently
                > > > and says, "I guess."
                > > >
                > > > Klemp shares his wisdom
                > > > of this while overlooking
                > > > the obvious hurt and doubts
                > > > that Holly is going through
                > > > by saying, "For her, the past
                > > > is the past; the present is
                > > > busy enough. Dear Holly."
                > > > To me this is a feeble attempt
                > > > at empathy. Plus, IMO, the
                > > > past isn't the past, especially,
                > > > when children are involved.
                > > >
                > > > Next comes Lori, Klemp's
                > > > occupational therapist.
                > > > He tells about her hunting
                > > > small game and recounts
                > > > a story she told that a cougar
                > > > once stalked her and her
                > > > husband. "BUT Lori does not
                > > > hunt cougar: it is a trophy
                > > > animal. She hunts for meat."
                > > > I guess that makes it okay
                > > > to kill.
                > > >
                > > > Now comes Dora, the West
                > > > African (Ghana) nurse's aide.
                > > > She brought ice for Harry's
                > > > hip and relayed messages
                > > > to the RN to bring "more
                > > > pain medication." "BUT Dora
                > > > did more, much more. When
                > > > the pain became nearly unbearable,
                > > > she laid a warm, encouraging
                > > > hand on my shoulder. Her
                > > > eyes, too, said, 'I understand."
                > > > Odd that Klemp was in so
                > > > much pain. One would think
                > > > that a 14th Initiate could HU
                > > > it away!
                > > >
                > > > Anyway, Joan came and picked
                > > > Harry up with some top ESC
                > > > staffers. And Klemp ends his
                > > > "tribute to a few of many
                > > > beautiful people in the healing
                > > > field" with these words:
                > > >
                > > > "And, Spirit of all living things,
                > > > I live to hallow Your name
                > > > among lost and wandering
                > > > Souls. So do with me as You
                > > > will."
                > > >
                > > > Klemp's con, along with his
                > > > delusion and narcissism, is
                > > > making this sound like
                > > > he's beseeching Spirit in
                > > > a prayer and giving thanks
                > > > that he can help "lost Souls"
                > > > by touching people with
                > > > his common everyday words
                > > > and presence... like everyone
                > > > else does in life. Except,
                > > > HK is more special than
                > > > other Souls because he's
                > > > the M/LEM of a false
                > > > teaching that pretends it's
                > > > "Spiritual."
                > > >
                > > > What's funny is that Klemp
                > > > thinks he's giving EKists
                > > > a pep talk and is showing
                > > > them how they should act
                > > > or respond to people if they
                > > > are in situations similar to
                > > > his as a result of Karma,
                > > > tests, and/or as channels
                > > > for Spirit.
                > > >
                > > > What Klemp is clueless of,
                > > > and doesn't know, is that
                > > > most EKists and even more
                > > > non-ECKists have already
                > > > responded in ways surpassing
                > > > Klemp's experience with his
                > > > non-lifethreatening injury.
                > > >
                > > > Prometheus
                > >
                >
              • Non
                Ha, Klemp and Science is the ultimate oxymoron anyway. Any of his Hypotheses could easily be tested with the Scientific Method. He could even make a quick
                Message 7 of 9 , Sep 8, 2012
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                  Ha, Klemp and Science is the ultimate oxymoron anyway. Any of his Hypotheses could easily be tested with the Scientific Method. He could even make a quick million $'s by contacting James Randy, the Skeptic. I wonder if Klemp also believes that female ekists can shut that whole pregnancy thing down if they are "legitimately" raped. LOL

                  Interesting that many Scientists have done more good in the world than any fake eck master.

                  Non ; )

                  --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                  >
                  Hello Postekcon and All,
                  Here's what I found on
                  the polio vaccines:

                  "How is the vaccine administered?

                  IPV is given as a shot in the arm or leg.
                  OPV is given as an oral liquid.

                  OPV is no longer used in the United States,
                  but is still given in other parts of the world
                  where polio is common.

                  Why was the U.S. polio immunization
                  recommendation changed from OPV
                  to IPV?

                  The change to an all-IPV schedule
                  in the United States occurred because
                  the Few Cases of polio that were
                  occurring (8-10 per year) were
                  caused by the OPV vaccine itself
                  and not the wild virus.

                  The change to IPV protects
                  individuals against paralytic polio,
                  while eliminating the small chance
                  (about Once in Every 2.4 Million Doses)
                  of Actually Contracting Polio From
                  The Live Oral Vaccine.

                  OPV is better at stopping the spread
                  of the virus to others, but now that
                  wild (natural) polio has been eliminated
                  from the Western Hemisphere, this
                  advantage is no longer a consideration
                  in the United States.

                  IPV has been used exclusively
                  in the United States since 2000.
                  However, in other countries
                  where wild polio is still a threat,
                  OPV is still used."

                  So, whether urban legend, an
                  old wives tales, superstition
                  misinformation or mitigating
                  circumstances the numbers
                  don't match. For instance, the
                  above information states that
                  Once out of 2.4 Million Doses
                  will a person contract polio
                  from the Live Oral Vaccine.

                  Therefore, 47,000 cases could
                  not have been vaccine induced,
                  unless, the vaccine was stored
                  improperly and became contaminated
                  and/or inert.

                  Anyhow, the point I was making
                  is that Eckankar has No Policy/Rule
                  stating that vaccines Should Not
                  be taken because it would "pose
                  an unacceptable threat to our
                  health." Therefore how is this
                  a "Religious Issue" for ECKists
                  when it's never been documented
                  as an issue?

                  Does this mean that EK children
                  should not be vaccinated due
                  to Religious Rules/Issues?

                  When did Eckankar adopt anti-drug
                  policies like Christian Science?

                  Besides, these ad hoc policies
                  that Klemp seems to be creating
                  are arbitrary. Klemp never looked
                  into the dangers or side-effects
                  of the drugs that his anesthesiologist
                  used.

                  Plus. Klemp was taking pain medication
                  and asked "Dora" (the nurse's aide)
                  to relay his request for more "when
                  the pain became nearly unbearable."
                  If anyone has taken strong prescription
                  pain medication and reads the description
                  and side-effects they will see that
                  there can be many risks to one's
                  health.

                  What, according to Klemp, makes
                  one drug acceptable while others
                  "pose an unacceptable threat to
                  our health?"

                  And, I'll bet Klemp was prescribed
                  some anti-inflamatory drugs as well,
                  and these can be dangerous to take
                  too.

                  However, when it comes to some
                  unknown inoculation he balks and
                  plays the religious card as an excuse
                  for his ignorance and fear.

                  Prometheus






                  "postekcon" wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > There is always some fashion or fad circulating ekult communities. They are
                  usually in health therapy, diet or self-help fields! Most of these fads (like
                  the inoculation story) are HK driven, interpreted from his talks and writings.
                  When HK promotes authors such as Dale Carnegie, or some other theories, they
                  became high profile fads for a while.
                  >
                  > I remember one odd fad in my ekult community, it was fashionable to discuss in
                  class NOT taking pain medication for minor ailments etc. But then, as is now, no
                  one discussed WHY!
                  >
                  > The subject of inoculation is a separate issue. One case in point, there is
                  currently a program to eradicate polio in India via inoculation. In 2011, 47,000
                  new polio cases were logged as vaccine induced!
                  > -Postekcon
                  >
                  >
                  "prometheus_wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hello Postekcon and All,
                  > >
                  > > On another note is the topic
                  > > about inoculations. I would
                  > > really like to hear some comments
                  > > and POVs concerning this.
                  > >
                  > > Klemp refused an (unknown)
                  > > inoculation at the hospital and
                  > > used the excuse that it was
                  > > a "Religious Issue" when there
                  > > is absolutely no Religious Policy
                  > > concerning inoculations that
                  > > ECKANKAR has ever stated:
                  > >
                  > > HK: "Yes, it is a religious issue
                  > > for us; the inoculation would
                  > > pose an unacceptable threat to
                  > > our health."
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Plus, Why would the "Mahanta"
                  > > (Klemp) be fearful of this inoculation?
                  > >
                  > > If he had an allergic reaction to
                  > > this he could use that as the reason
                  > > not to get it, but that's not the case.
                  > > Klemp has a "Religious Issue" with
                  > > getting this vaccine.
                  > >
                  > > Was it a High Dose Flu Shot (for
                  > > those 65 and older), a pneumonia
                  > > shot, or the shingles vaccine (age
                  > > 60 and older)? What was it that
                  > > made this a "Religious Issue" when
                  > > it's never been mentioned before
                  > > by ECKANKAR or by Klemp?
                  > >
                  > > Now, I can see how it might be
                  > > a personal choice because many
                  > > people have fears of inoculations
                  > > or of needles in general. The CDC
                  > > website, or Walgreens, will give
                  > > people info on prescription drugs
                  > > and on inoculations.
                  > >
                  > > However, for Klemp to say that
                  > > this was a "Religious Issue" is,
                  > > in my opinion, an attempt to
                  > > save face.
                  > >
                  > > Klemp can't really admit that
                  > > he has a fear that a life threatening
                  > > reaction might occur. Maybe
                  > > one in a million people could
                  > > be negatively affected depending
                  > > upon their overall health, but
                  > > that's a minute risk compared
                  > > to the illness or malady that
                  > > the inoculation is preventing.
                  > >
                  > > How would it look for the
                  > > religious leader of this small
                  > > local cult to be fearful of
                  > > the negligible side-effects
                  > > of this vaccine and imagine
                  > > this story being told to others!
                  > >
                  > > But, for a religious leader
                  > > to decline the inoculation
                  > > by saying it's a "Religious
                  > > Issue" to someone who
                  > > doesn't know anything about
                  > > Eckankar's dogma/belief
                  > > is a more acceptable tactic,
                  > > although, still somewhat
                  > > strange.
                  > >
                  > > Imagine the effort that EK
                  > > Vahanas are making in
                  > > order to present Eckankar
                  > > as a normal religion with
                  > > no strange behaviors or
                  > > sacrifices, etc. and saying
                  > > "We're just like you" then,
                  > > have Klemp pull this "Religious
                  > > Issue" card on the nursing
                  > > staff!
                  > >
                  > > One might think, What kind
                  > > of an ignorant, fearful, and
                  > > antiquated cult is this Eckankar?
                  > >
                  > > Since Klemp had surgery on
                  > > his broken hip and hardware
                  > > put in and maybe a blood
                  > > supplied, anesthesia, various
                  > > drugs and a lot of pain medication
                  > > one has to wonder why he
                  > > declined this vaccine and
                  > > claimed that inoculations (in
                  > > general?) were against his
                  > > Religion!
                  > >
                  > > I doubt that Klemp found
                  > > out which drugs and anesthesia
                  > > would be used for his surgery
                  > > and recovery process to manage
                  > > pain etc. and researched their
                  > > side-effects and dangers.
                  > >
                  > > By being the LEM/Mahanta
                  > > he can't just say it's a "religious
                  > > issue" for him and Joan.
                  > >
                  > > It has now become a "Religious
                  > > Issue" for all ECKists! Except,
                  > > I doubt that many ECKists
                  > > noticed his comments or if
                  > > they did they certainly can't
                  > > ask too many, if any, questions
                  > > about this "Religious Issue"
                  > > and dogma that has never
                  > > before been revealed. And,
                  > > by not mentioning which
                  > > "inoculation" it still hasn't
                  > > been revealed!
                  > >
                  > > Prometheus
                  > > p.s. To Postekcon:
                  > > Yes, it seems that ECKists
                  > > don't get credit for being
                  > > "servants," i.e. volunteers,
                  > > within their communities.
                  > > It doesn't count toward
                  > > that next initiation. RESAs
                  > > notice these things and
                  > > unless you're a high profile
                  > > professional, i.e. lawyer,
                  > > doctor, or architect, one
                  > > must become an EK volunteer
                  > > in order to advance with
                  > > more and higher initiations.
                  > >
                  > > Plus, Klemp has slowed
                  > > down the initiation process
                  > > by tying them into physical
                  > > requirements such as
                  > > additional training and
                  > > duties which are, of course,
                  > > voluntary if you want to
                  > > become a cleric, initiator,
                  > > spiritual aide, or RESA.
                  > > And, these titles are tied
                  > > into higher initiations.
                  > > [end]
                  > >
                  > > postekcon wrote:
                  > > You are Ssoooo right. This question bothered me all my time in ekult!
                  > >
                  > > A lot of lip-service to 'service' per-se, but the bottom line was, only
                  > > 'service' TO ekult was recorded as 'service'?
                  > >
                  > > This is NOT the way the Universe works, service to the one; to the exclusion
                  of
                  > > the other!
                  > > -Postekcon
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > What occurs to me is if the lem says we are here to serve others then why is
                  > > it that as members you are only given duties that serves eckankar. I never
                  > > heard of any work going on in eckankar that benefited anything but eckankar.
                  > > Most activities are geared to drag in new members period..
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > prometheus wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Hello All,
                  > > > I thought I'd bring
                  > > > this back to the front
                  > > > page----and share
                  > > > Klemp's Wisdom Notes
                  > > > from the 09/2012
                  > > > The Mystic World.
                  > > >
                  > > > HK starts off by
                  > > > saying that Eckankar
                  > > > is for "lovers of life"
                  > > > and that people need
                  > > > not worry by thinking
                  > > > it is a requirement
                  > > > to sacrifice your life
                  > > > to be a Co-worker
                  > > > with the Mahanta.
                  > > >
                  > > > Klemp then poses
                  > > > some "What If" questions.
                  > > > Like, what if an astroid
                  > > > hit causing devastation.
                  > > > What would you do?
                  > > >
                  > > > "My words here are not
                  > > > a foreshadowing of a
                  > > > planetary disaster, BUT
                  > > > a gentle reminder that
                  > > > we exist to serve others."
                  > > >
                  > > > Well, there it is again.
                  > > > Another pitch for service!
                  > > > Klemp needs his volunteer
                  > > > sales staff.
                  > > >
                  > > > Klemp even brings up what
                  > > > happened to the Atlanteans
                  > > > since they "turned from love
                  > > > and service to a grab for
                  > > > power and conquest." See
                  > > > what happens when ECKists
                  > > > don't volunteer! Plus, an
                  > > > ECKist volunteering would
                  > > > equate to how many non-
                  > > > ECKists not volunteering?
                  > > > Are HK's chelas mini-holding
                  > > > tanks for the world's Karma?
                  > > > However, HK does alleviate
                  > > > some possible fears/concerns
                  > > > by saying "a global disaster
                  > > > need not happen." So, be of
                  > > > service!
                  > > >
                  > > > "The mental energies of a
                  > > > people turned toward evil
                  > > > do rebound upon them. It
                  > > > is called national karma."
                  > > >
                  > > > It would seem that this same
                  > > > "rebound karma" would apply
                  > > > to religions as well. It is called
                  > > > religious karma.
                  > > >
                  > > > Here's something he says
                  > > > regarding the negative forces
                  > > > that applies to himself, too,
                  > > > and yet he doesn't see the
                  > > > irony in his words. "... so is
                  > > > it any wonder that the few
                  > > > command the many and are
                  > > > apt to show a blatant disregard
                  > > > for the wishes of the latter."
                  > > > Sounds like Klemp is speaking
                  > > > of himself. He's a tyrant who
                  > > > can't and won't accept constructive
                  > > > criticism. It's a One-Way street
                  > > > and it runs his way! ECKists
                  > > > aren't permitted to have differing
                  > > > views... he's always right,
                  > > > although, he claims not to
                  > > > be perfect. That's a Catch-22!
                  > > >
                  > > > "BUT that is the heavy-handed
                  > > > nature of power in the hands
                  > > > of spiritual adolescents. So we
                  > > > see more autocratic or tyrannical
                  > > > rulers than good or wise ones
                  > > > who rule according to the law
                  > > > of divine love."
                  > > >
                  > > > See, I told you that Klemp can't
                  > > > look into the mirror and see the
                  > > > truth. He only sees his narcissistic
                  > > > self!
                  > > >
                  > > > HK then talks to ECKists about
                  > > > choosing between following:
                  > > > "God's law or man's law. There
                  > > > will be consequences.... for civil
                  > > > disobedience... Again, God's law
                  > > > or man's law? The issue for an
                  > > > ECKist is freedom of conscience."
                  > > >
                  > > > Yet, look at what freedoms
                  > > > ECKists have within ECKankar!
                  > > > Not that many... it's a power
                  > > > based hierarchy ruled locally
                  > > > by the RESAs' Police Force.
                  > > >
                  > > > And, let's ponder whether
                  > > > these ECK Laws are all that
                  > > > "high." In fact they are all of
                  > > > the Mental Plane and were,
                  > > > thus, created by mankind.
                  > > > Plus, "God" is actually the
                  > > > KAL (according to Eckankar)
                  > > > and is the Negative Force
                  > > > in charge of the earth.
                  > > >
                  > > > ***************************
                  > > > KLEMP ON INOCULATIONS:
                  > > >
                  > > > This next paragraph is a real
                  > > > eye-opener! Did you know
                  > > > that ECKists have a RELIGIOUS
                  > > > ISSUE regarding inoculations?
                  > > >
                  > > > Klemp mentions, that while
                  > > > in the hospital with his broken
                  > > > hip, that he refused an inoculation.
                  > > >
                  > > > HK: "Yes, it is a religious issue
                  > > > for us; the inoculation would
                  > > > pose an unacceptable threat
                  > > > to our health."
                  > > >
                  > > > It's kind of strange that Klemp
                  > > > didn't mention which inoculation
                  > > > was an issue. All inoculations
                  > > > or just certain ones like the Flu
                  > > > Shot, Pneumonia, or Shingles?
                  > > > It would be nice to know.
                  > > >
                  > > > However, why is the Mahanta/
                  > > > LEM (Klemp) fearful of an
                  > > > inoculation? Is being a "lover
                  > > > of life," also, being fearful
                  > > > of death? It seems so! And,
                  > > > Klemp is 70 years old and
                  > > > showing his age.
                  > > >
                  > > > Anyway, Klemp says some
                  > > > more things we've all, basically,
                  > > > heard before and ends with:
                  > > > "As always, the fires of karma
                  > > > burn ever so hot and bright,
                  > > > leaving each Soul ever more
                  > > > spiritually refined." Klemp,
                  > > > then, signs off with an
                  > > > "Affectionately, Harold"
                  > > >
                  > > > So, is Klemp afraid of inoculations
                  > > > because of possible karmic
                  > > > retribution? Is his "Holding
                  > > > Tank" full? If it was up to
                  > > > Klemp he'd become a typhoid
                  > > > Harry and spread his disease
                  > > > everywhere. What about being
                  > > > the cause for negativity?
                  > > >
                  > > > Also, I find it interesting that
                  > > > Klemp ends by saying:
                  > > > "Affectionately, Harold"
                  > > >
                  > > > I was looking at Twitchell's
                  > > > old Wisdom Notes and he'd
                  > > > end them with "My Love Is
                  > > > Always With You" or "My
                  > > > Love Protects You."
                  > > >
                  > > > Thus, when Klemp talks
                  > > > about "the law of divine
                  > > > love" it's strange that he
                  > > > ends the article with,
                  > > > "Affectionately."
                  > > >
                  > > > Klemp is the "heavy-handed
                  > > > ruler and tyrant... and
                  > > > spiritual adolescent"
                  > > > that he talked about.
                  > > >
                  > > > This is why HK is fearful
                  > > > of inoculations and hides
                  > > > behind "religious beliefs."
                  > > > He cannot be Detached
                  > > > when he refuses inoculations
                  > > > that others, like I, get. I'm
                  > > > not fearful and I've read
                  > > > the literature with the side-
                  > > > effects. This is the main
                  > > > reason he doesn't mention
                  > > > which inoculation he refused.
                  > > >
                  > > > If it has to do with religious
                  > > > beliefs... what law of God
                  > > > justifies this fearful omission
                  > > > that could, also, jeopardize
                  > > > the health of others?
                  > > >
                  > > > Prometheus
                  > > >
                  > > > *********************
                  > > > In the 09/2012 The
                  > > > Mystic World, Klemp
                  > > > tells of his hospital
                  > > > experience with the
                  > > > nursing staff.
                  > > >
                  > > > BTW- Notice HK's use
                  > > > of BUT and reference
                  > > > my previous post about
                  > > > the use of IF, AND,
                  > > > and especially BUT.
                  > > >
                  > > > I'll comment on the
                  > > > excerpts:
                  > > >
                  > > > Klemp begins with his
                  > > > story by making it seem
                  > > > that his accident was
                  > > > tied into being a channel
                  > > > for the Holy Spirit.
                  > > >
                  > > > If asked, would you do
                  > > > anything for the Holy
                  > > > Spirit? And most would
                  > > > respond, Yes, of course!
                  > > >
                  > > > "BUT what IF it meant
                  > > > a complete change in
                  > > > your way of doing nearly
                  > > > everything?
                  > > >
                  > > > Notice the use of "BUT"
                  > > > and "IF?" Two words EKists
                  > > > are Not to use when
                  > > > communicating with
                  > > > one another.
                  > > >
                  > > > So, Klemp is setting us
                  > > > up with his broken-hip
                  > > > injury, caused by a fall
                  > > > on "black ice," to be
                  > > > something special and
                  > > > spiritual.
                  > > >
                  > > > In fact, life happens!
                  > > > Everyone goes through
                  > > > injuries, pain, and suffering.
                  > > > Klemp is making it seem
                  > > > like his injury was because
                  > > > he's what? Taking on the
                  > > > Karma of his chelas and,
                  > > > thus, he slips and falls?
                  > > >
                  > > > Or, maybe this "Slip & Fall"
                  > > > is a Waking Dream telling
                  > > > ECKists that Klemp has
                  > > > Fallen from Grace! And,
                  > > > the "Black Ice" is telling
                  > > > us that HK's a "Black Magician"
                  > > > like Darwin was! Darwin
                  > > > did give the Rod of Power
                  > > > to Klemp (the 12th initiation)
                  > > > and initiated him with
                  > > > several other Higher Initiations.
                  > > > Plus, DG & HK met secretly
                  > > > (twice, circa 1981-82)
                  > > > in a Sound Proof Dark
                  > > > Room where HK worked.
                  > > > The Light and Sound was
                  > > > kept out of this room
                  > > > while they were preparing
                  > > > for the transition. And,
                  > > > it was Klemp's idea to
                  > > > meet there, and Darwin
                  > > > hesitated when learning
                  > > > it had been previously
                  > > > been converted to a
                  > > > Sound Proof room and
                  > > > was used as a Dark Room
                  > > > by Klemp. However, Gross
                  > > > overlooked his inner nudge
                  > > > and paid the price!
                  > > >
                  > > > Anyway, Klemp mentions:
                  > > > Faye, the RN; Holly, the
                  > > > Physical Therapist; Lori,
                  > > > the Occupational Therapist;
                  > > > Dora, the West African
                  > > > Nurse's Aide.
                  > > >
                  > > > Of course, Klemp claims
                  > > > that everyone was talking
                  > > > about the leader of Eckankar
                  > > > falling on black ice and
                  > > > breaking his hip.
                  > > >
                  > > > BTW- Klemp is pictured
                  > > > at the 2012 EK Springtime
                  > > > Seminar setting in a wheelchair.
                  > > >
                  > > > Anywho, HK talks about
                  > > > Faye, nutrition, and states:
                  > > > "BUT Faye, a member of
                  > > > the Assembly of God church,
                  > > > was determined to be the
                  > > > complete professional. No
                  > > > biases."
                  > > >
                  > > > Apparently Klemp feels the
                  > > > need to give some background
                  > > > on these people to make it
                  > > > sound like he cares about
                  > > > them. What Klemp fails to
                  > > > see is that ECKist, or not,
                  > > > we are all put into these
                  > > > same scenarios or similar
                  > > > situations and make small
                  > > > talk and friends with those
                  > > > who are taking care of us.
                  > > >
                  > > > Klemp, then, mentions that
                  > > > some of Faye's co-workers
                  > > > didn't understand their easy
                  > > > "banter" and thought she was
                  > > > being disrespectful since HK
                  > > > was a preacher, of sorts, and
                  > > > a cultist. "BUT I left her supervisor
                  > > > a glowing commendation about
                  > > > her healing laughter, care,
                  > > > compassion, and understanding."
                  > > >
                  > > > Klemp says, "Do with me as
                  > > > you please." Although, the
                  > > > title of this front page article
                  > > > is "Do With Me As You Will"
                  > > > which is promoting HK's accident
                  > > > as a Karmic sacrifice for his
                  > > > chelas. Klemp's clueless about
                  > > > the sufferings of others because
                  > > > he has always lacked empathy!
                  > > >
                  > > > "Again, the EK had done with me
                  > > > as It would, to better touch Souls
                  > > > ready for the journey home to
                  > > > God." Isn't "God" actually Kal,
                  > > > whereas, Sugmad is different?
                  > > > This is an official EK Pub so why
                  > > > call Sugmad "God," unless, you
                  > > > actually mean God!
                  > > >
                  > > > Next, Klemp mentions Holly
                  > > > his physical therapist. She
                  > > > mentions that, "Tomorrow at
                  > > > this time our divorce will be
                  > > > final." Klemp responds with,
                  > > > "That's great!" Holly shrugs
                  > > > her shoulders indifferently
                  > > > and says, "I guess."
                  > > >
                  > > > Klemp shares his wisdom
                  > > > of this while overlooking
                  > > > the obvious hurt and doubts
                  > > > that Holly is going through
                  > > > by saying, "For her, the past
                  > > > is the past; the present is
                  > > > busy enough. Dear Holly."
                  > > > To me this is a feeble attempt
                  > > > at empathy. Plus, IMO, the
                  > > > past isn't the past, especially,
                  > > > when children are involved.
                  > > >
                  > > > Next comes Lori, Klemp's
                  > > > occupational therapist.
                  > > > He tells about her hunting
                  > > > small game and recounts
                  > > > a story she told that a cougar
                  > > > once stalked her and her
                  > > > husband. "BUT Lori does not
                  > > > hunt cougar: it is a trophy
                  > > > animal. She hunts for meat."
                  > > > I guess that makes it okay
                  > > > to kill.
                  > > >
                  > > > Now comes Dora, the West
                  > > > African (Ghana) nurse's aide.
                  > > > She brought ice for Harry's
                  > > > hip and relayed messages
                  > > > to the RN to bring "more
                  > > > pain medication." "BUT Dora
                  > > > did more, much more. When
                  > > > the pain became nearly unbearable,
                  > > > she laid a warm, encouraging
                  > > > hand on my shoulder. Her
                  > > > eyes, too, said, 'I understand."
                  > > > Odd that Klemp was in so
                  > > > much pain. One would think
                  > > > that a 14th Initiate could HU
                  > > > it away!
                  > > >
                  > > > Anyway, Joan came and picked
                  > > > Harry up with some top ESC
                  > > > staffers. And Klemp ends his
                  > > > "tribute to a few of many
                  > > > beautiful people in the healing
                  > > > field" with these words:
                  > > >
                  > > > "And, Spirit of all living things,
                  > > > I live to hallow Your name
                  > > > among lost and wandering
                  > > > Souls. So do with me as You
                  > > > will."
                  > > >
                  > > > Klemp's con, along with his
                  > > > delusion and narcissism, is
                  > > > making this sound like
                  > > > he's beseeching Spirit in
                  > > > a prayer and giving thanks
                  > > > that he can help "lost Souls"
                  > > > by touching people with
                  > > > his common everyday words
                  > > > and presence... like everyone
                  > > > else does in life. Except,
                  > > > HK is more special than
                  > > > other Souls because he's
                  > > > the M/LEM of a false
                  > > > teaching that pretends it's
                  > > > "Spiritual."
                  > > >
                  > > > What's funny is that Klemp
                  > > > thinks he's giving EKists
                  > > > a pep talk and is showing
                  > > > them how they should act
                  > > > or respond to people if they
                  > > > are in situations similar to
                  > > > his as a result of Karma,
                  > > > tests, and/or as channels
                  > > > for Spirit.
                  > > >
                  > > > What Klemp is clueless of,
                  > > > and doesn't know, is that
                  > > > most EKists and even more
                  > > > non-ECKists have already
                  > > > responded in ways surpassing
                  > > > Klemp's experience with his
                  > > > non-lifethreatening injury.
                  > > >
                  > > > Prometheus
                  > >
                  >
                • Janice Pfeiffer
                  I think it is really kool that HK makes the statements he does about inoculations cuz it makes him appear strange to outsiders.  It just makes it harder for
                  Message 8 of 9 , Sep 8, 2012
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I think it is really kool that HK makes the statements he does about inoculations cuz it makes him appear strange to outsiders.  It just makes it harder for eck members to excuse his nut side when he will under go surgery and take lots of meds but then again, he talks against an inoculation for "religious reasons".  Makes him sound like an uneducated backwards nerd.  That means fewer potential new members.  I like it!

                    --- On Thu, 9/6/12, prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...> wrote:

                    From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
                    Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] HK Declines an Inoculation on Religious Grounds!
                    To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Thursday, September 6, 2012, 8:42 PM

                     
                    Hello Postekcon and All,

                    On another note is the topic
                    about inoculations. I would
                    really like to hear some comments
                    and POVs concerning this.

                    Klemp refused an (unknown)
                    inoculation at the hospital and
                    used the excuse that it was
                    a "Religious Issue" when there
                    is absolutely no Religious Policy
                    concerning inoculations that
                    ECKANKAR has ever stated:

                    HK: "Yes, it is a religious issue
                    for us; the inoculation would
                    pose an unacceptable threat to
                    our health."

                    Plus, Why would the "Mahanta"
                    (Klemp) be fearful of this inoculation?

                    If he had an allergic reaction to
                    this he could use that as the reason
                    not to get it, but that's not the case.
                    Klemp has a "Religious Issue" with
                    getting this vaccine.

                    Was it a High Dose Flu Shot (for
                    those 65 and older), a pneumonia
                    shot, or the shingles vaccine (age
                    60 and older)? What was it that
                    made this a "Religious Issue" when
                    it's never been mentioned before
                    by ECKANKAR or by Klemp?

                    Now, I can see how it might be
                    a personal choice because many
                    people have fears of inoculations
                    or of needles in general. The CDC
                    website, or Walgreens, will give
                    people info on prescription drugs
                    and on inoculations.

                    However, for Klemp to say that
                    this was a "Religious Issue" is,
                    in my opinion, an attempt to
                    save face.

                    Klemp can't really admit that
                    he has a fear that a life threatening
                    reaction might occur. Maybe
                    one in a million people could
                    be negatively affected depending
                    upon their overall health, but
                    that's a minute risk compared
                    to the illness or malady that
                    the inoculation is preventing.

                    How would it look for the
                    religious leader of this small
                    local cult to be fearful of
                    the negligible side-effects
                    of this vaccine and imagine
                    this story being told to others!

                    But, for a religious leader
                    to decline the inoculation
                    by saying it's a "Religious
                    Issue" to someone who
                    doesn't know anything about
                    Eckankar's dogma/belief
                    is a more acceptable tactic,
                    although, still somewhat
                    strange.

                    Imagine the effort that EK
                    Vahanas are making in
                    order to present Eckankar
                    as a normal religion with
                    no strange behaviors or
                    sacrifices, etc. and saying
                    "We're just like you" then,
                    have Klemp pull this "Religious
                    Issue" card on the nursing
                    staff!

                    One might think, What kind
                    of an ignorant, fearful, and
                    antiquated cult is this Eckankar?

                    Since Klemp had surgery on
                    his broken hip and hardware
                    put in and maybe a blood
                    supplied, anesthesia, various
                    drugs and a lot of pain medication
                    one has to wonder why he
                    declined this vaccine and
                    claimed that inoculations (in
                    general?) were against his
                    Religion!

                    I doubt that Klemp found
                    out which drugs and anesthesia
                    would be used for his surgery
                    and recovery process to manage
                    pain etc. and researched their
                    side-effects and dangers.

                    By being the LEM/Mahanta
                    he can't just say it's a "religious
                    issue" for him and Joan.

                    It has now become a "Religious
                    Issue" for all ECKists! Except,
                    I doubt that many ECKists
                    noticed his comments or if
                    they did they certainly can't
                    ask too many, if any, questions
                    about this "Religious Issue"
                    and dogma that has never
                    before been revealed. And,
                    by not mentioning which
                    "inoculation" it still hasn't
                    been revealed!

                    Prometheus
                    p.s. To Postekcon:
                    Yes, it seems that ECKists
                    don't get credit for being
                    "servants," i.e. volunteers,
                    within their communities.
                    It doesn't count toward
                    that next initiation. RESAs
                    notice these things and
                    unless you're a high profile
                    professional, i.e. lawyer,
                    doctor, or architect, one
                    must become an EK volunteer
                    in order to advance with
                    more and higher initiations.

                    Plus, Klemp has slowed
                    down the initiation process
                    by tying them into physical
                    requirements such as
                    additional training and
                    duties which are, of course,
                    voluntary if you want to
                    become a cleric, initiator,
                    spiritual aide, or RESA.
                    And, these titles are tied
                    into higher initiations.
                    [end]

                    postekcon wrote:
                    You are Ssoooo right. This question bothered me all my time in ekult!

                    A lot of lip-service to 'service' per-se, but the bottom line was, only
                    'service' TO ekult was recorded as 'service'?

                    This is NOT the way the Universe works, service to the one; to the exclusion of
                    the other!
                    -Postekcon

                    Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
                    >
                    What occurs to me is if the lem says we are here to serve others then why is
                    it that as members you are only given duties that serves eckankar. I never
                    heard of any work going on in eckankar that benefited anything but eckankar.
                    Most activities are geared to drag in new members period..

                    prometheus wrote:
                    >
                    > Hello All,
                    > I thought I'd bring
                    > this back to the front
                    > page----and share
                    > Klemp's Wisdom Notes
                    > from the 09/2012
                    > The Mystic World.
                    >
                    > HK starts off by
                    > saying that Eckankar
                    > is for "lovers of life"
                    > and that people need
                    > not worry by thinking
                    > it is a requirement
                    > to sacrifice your life
                    > to be a Co-worker
                    > with the Mahanta.
                    >
                    > Klemp then poses
                    > some "What If" questions.
                    > Like, what if an astroid
                    > hit causing devastation.
                    > What would you do?
                    >
                    > "My words here are not
                    > a foreshadowing of a
                    > planetary disaster, BUT
                    > a gentle reminder that
                    > we exist to serve others."
                    >
                    > Well, there it is again.
                    > Another pitch for service!
                    > Klemp needs his volunteer
                    > sales staff.
                    >
                    > Klemp even brings up what
                    > happened to the Atlanteans
                    > since they "turned from love
                    > and service to a grab for
                    > power and conquest." See
                    > what happens when ECKists
                    > don't volunteer! Plus, an
                    > ECKist volunteering would
                    > equate to how many non-
                    > ECKists not volunteering?
                    > Are HK's chelas mini-holding
                    > tanks for the world's Karma?
                    > However, HK does alleviate
                    > some possible fears/concerns
                    > by saying "a global disaster
                    > need not happen." So, be of
                    > service!
                    >
                    > "The mental energies of a
                    > people turned toward evil
                    > do rebound upon them. It
                    > is called national karma."
                    >
                    > It would seem that this same
                    > "rebound karma" would apply
                    > to religions as well. It is called
                    > religious karma.
                    >
                    > Here's something he says
                    > regarding the negative forces
                    > that applies to himself, too,
                    > and yet he doesn't see the
                    > irony in his words. "... so is
                    > it any wonder that the few
                    > command the many and are
                    > apt to show a blatant disregard
                    > for the wishes of the latter."
                    > Sounds like Klemp is speaking
                    > of himself. He's a tyrant who
                    > can't and won't accept constructive
                    > criticism. It's a One-Way street
                    > and it runs his way! ECKists
                    > aren't permitted to have differing
                    > views... he's always right,
                    > although, he claims not to
                    > be perfect. That's a Catch-22!
                    >
                    > "BUT that is the heavy-handed
                    > nature of power in the hands
                    > of spiritual adolescents. So we
                    > see more autocratic or tyrannical
                    > rulers than good or wise ones
                    > who rule according to the law
                    > of divine love."
                    >
                    > See, I told you that Klemp can't
                    > look into the mirror and see the
                    > truth. He only sees his narcissistic
                    > self!
                    >
                    > HK then talks to ECKists about
                    > choosing between following:
                    > "God's law or man's law. There
                    > will be consequences.... for civil
                    > disobedience... Again, God's law
                    > or man's law? The issue for an
                    > ECKist is freedom of conscience."
                    >
                    > Yet, look at what freedoms
                    > ECKists have within ECKankar!
                    > Not that many... it's a power
                    > based hierarchy ruled locally
                    > by the RESAs' Police Force.
                    >
                    > And, let's ponder whether
                    > these ECK Laws are all that
                    > "high." In fact they are all of
                    > the Mental Plane and were,
                    > thus, created by mankind.
                    > Plus, "God" is actually the
                    > KAL (according to Eckankar)
                    > and is the Negative Force
                    > in charge of the earth.
                    >
                    > ***************************
                    > KLEMP ON INOCULATIONS:
                    >
                    > This next paragraph is a real
                    > eye-opener! Did you know
                    > that ECKists have a RELIGIOUS
                    > ISSUE regarding inoculations?
                    >
                    > Klemp mentions, that while
                    > in the hospital with his broken
                    > hip, that he refused an inoculation.
                    >
                    > HK: "Yes, it is a religious issue
                    > for us; the inoculation would
                    > pose an unacceptable threat
                    > to our health."
                    >
                    > It's kind of strange that Klemp
                    > didn't mention which inoculation
                    > was an issue. All inoculations
                    > or just certain ones like the Flu
                    > Shot, Pneumonia, or Shingles?
                    > It would be nice to know.
                    >
                    > However, why is the Mahanta/
                    > LEM (Klemp) fearful of an
                    > inoculation? Is being a "lover
                    > of life," also, being fearful
                    > of death? It seems so! And,
                    > Klemp is 70 years old and
                    > showing his age.
                    >
                    > Anyway, Klemp says some
                    > more things we've all, basically,
                    > heard before and ends with:
                    > "As always, the fires of karma
                    > burn ever so hot and bright,
                    > leaving each Soul ever more
                    > spiritually refined." Klemp,
                    > then, signs off with an
                    > "Affectionately, Harold"
                    >
                    > So, is Klemp afraid of inoculations
                    > because of possible karmic
                    > retribution? Is his "Holding
                    > Tank" full? If it was up to
                    > Klemp he'd become a typhoid
                    > Harry and spread his disease
                    > everywhere. What about being
                    > the cause for negativity?
                    >
                    > Also, I find it interesting that
                    > Klemp ends by saying:
                    > "Affectionately, Harold"
                    >
                    > I was looking at Twitchell's
                    > old Wisdom Notes and he'd
                    > end them with "My Love Is
                    > Always With You" or "My
                    > Love Protects You."
                    >
                    > Thus, when Klemp talks
                    > about "the law of divine
                    > love" it's strange that he
                    > ends the article with,
                    > "Affectionately."
                    >
                    > Klemp is the "heavy-handed
                    > ruler and tyrant... and
                    > spiritual adolescent"
                    > that he talked about.
                    >
                    > This is why HK is fearful
                    > of inoculations and hides
                    > behind "religious beliefs."
                    > He cannot be Detached
                    > when he refuses inoculations
                    > that others, like I, get. I'm
                    > not fearful and I've read
                    > the literature with the side-
                    > effects. This is the main
                    > reason he doesn't mention
                    > which inoculation he refused.
                    >
                    > If it has to do with religious
                    > beliefs... what law of God
                    > justifies this fearful omission
                    > that could, also, jeopardize
                    > the health of others?
                    >
                    > Prometheus
                    >
                    > *********************
                    > In the 09/2012 The
                    > Mystic World, Klemp
                    > tells of his hospital
                    > experience with the
                    > nursing staff.
                    >
                    > BTW- Notice HK's use
                    > of BUT and reference
                    > my previous post about
                    > the use of IF, AND,
                    > and especially BUT.
                    >
                    > I'll comment on the
                    > excerpts:
                    >
                    > Klemp begins with his
                    > story by making it seem
                    > that his accident was
                    > tied into being a channel
                    > for the Holy Spirit.
                    >
                    > If asked, would you do
                    > anything for the Holy
                    > Spirit? And most would
                    > respond, Yes, of course!
                    >
                    > "BUT what IF it meant
                    > a complete change in
                    > your way of doing nearly
                    > everything?
                    >
                    > Notice the use of "BUT"
                    > and "IF?" Two words EKists
                    > are Not to use when
                    > communicating with
                    > one another.
                    >
                    > So, Klemp is setting us
                    > up with his broken-hip
                    > injury, caused by a fall
                    > on "black ice," to be
                    > something special and
                    > spiritual.
                    >
                    > In fact, life happens!
                    > Everyone goes through
                    > injuries, pain, and suffering.
                    > Klemp is making it seem
                    > like his injury was because
                    > he's what? Taking on the
                    > Karma of his chelas and,
                    > thus, he slips and falls?
                    >
                    > Or, maybe this "Slip & Fall"
                    > is a Waking Dream telling
                    > ECKists that Klemp has
                    > Fallen from Grace! And,
                    > the "Black Ice" is telling
                    > us that HK's a "Black Magician"
                    > like Darwin was! Darwin
                    > did give the Rod of Power
                    > to Klemp (the 12th initiation)
                    > and initiated him with
                    > several other Higher Initiations.
                    > Plus, DG & HK met secretly
                    > (twice, circa 1981-82)
                    > in a Sound Proof Dark
                    > Room where HK worked.
                    > The Light and Sound was
                    > kept out of this room
                    > while they were preparing
                    > for the transition. And,
                    > it was Klemp's idea to
                    > meet there, and Darwin
                    > hesitated when learning
                    > it had been previously
                    > been converted to a
                    > Sound Proof room and
                    > was used as a Dark Room
                    > by Klemp. However, Gross
                    > overlooked his inner nudge
                    > and paid the price!
                    >
                    > Anyway, Klemp mentions:
                    > Faye, the RN; Holly, the
                    > Physical Therapist; Lori,
                    > the Occupational Therapist;
                    > Dora, the West African
                    > Nurse's Aide.
                    >
                    > Of course, Klemp claims
                    > that everyone was talking
                    > about the leader of Eckankar
                    > falling on black ice and
                    > breaking his hip.
                    >
                    > BTW- Klemp is pictured
                    > at the 2012 EK Springtime
                    > Seminar setting in a wheelchair.
                    >
                    > Anywho, HK talks about
                    > Faye, nutrition, and states:
                    > "BUT Faye, a member of
                    > the Assembly of God church,
                    > was determined to be the
                    > complete professional. No
                    > biases."
                    >
                    > Apparently Klemp feels the
                    > need to give some background
                    > on these people to make it
                    > sound like he cares about
                    > them. What Klemp fails to
                    > see is that ECKist, or not,
                    > we are all put into these
                    > same scenarios or similar
                    > situations and make small
                    > talk and friends with those
                    > who are taking care of us.
                    >
                    > Klemp, then, mentions that
                    > some of Faye's co-workers
                    > didn't understand their easy
                    > "banter" and thought she was
                    > being disrespectful since HK
                    > was a preacher, of sorts, and
                    > a cultist. "BUT I left her supervisor
                    > a glowing commendation about
                    > her healing laughter, care,
                    > compassion, and understanding."
                    >
                    > Klemp says, "Do with me as
                    > you please." Although, the
                    > title of this front page article
                    > is "Do With Me As You Will"
                    > which is promoting HK's accident
                    > as a Karmic sacrifice for his
                    > chelas. Klemp's clueless about
                    > the sufferings of others because
                    > he has always lacked empathy!
                    >
                    > "Again, the EK had done with me
                    > as It would, to better touch Souls
                    > ready for the journey home to
                    > God." Isn't "God" actually Kal,
                    > whereas, Sugmad is different?
                    > This is an official EK Pub so why
                    > call Sugmad "God," unless, you
                    > actually mean God!
                    >
                    > Next, Klemp mentions Holly
                    > his physical therapist. She
                    > mentions that, "Tomorrow at
                    > this time our divorce will be
                    > final." Klemp responds with,
                    > "That's great!" Holly shrugs
                    > her shoulders indifferently
                    > and says, "I guess."
                    >
                    > Klemp shares his wisdom
                    > of this while overlooking
                    > the obvious hurt and doubts
                    > that Holly is going through
                    > by saying, "For her, the past
                    > is the past; the present is
                    > busy enough. Dear Holly."
                    > To me this is a feeble attempt
                    > at empathy. Plus, IMO, the
                    > past isn't the past, especially,
                    > when children are involved.
                    >
                    > Next comes Lori, Klemp's
                    > occupational therapist.
                    > He tells about her hunting
                    > small game and recounts
                    > a story she told that a cougar
                    > once stalked her and her
                    > husband. "BUT Lori does not
                    > hunt cougar: it is a trophy
                    > animal. She hunts for meat."
                    > I guess that makes it okay
                    > to kill.
                    >
                    > Now comes Dora, the West
                    > African (Ghana) nurse's aide.
                    > She brought ice for Harry's
                    > hip and relayed messages
                    > to the RN to bring "more
                    > pain medication." "BUT Dora
                    > did more, much more. When
                    > the pain became nearly unbearable,
                    > she laid a warm, encouraging
                    > hand on my shoulder. Her
                    > eyes, too, said, 'I understand."
                    > Odd that Klemp was in so
                    > much pain. One would think
                    > that a 14th Initiate could HU
                    > it away!
                    >
                    > Anyway, Joan came and picked
                    > Harry up with some top ESC
                    > staffers. And Klemp ends his
                    > "tribute to a few of many
                    > beautiful people in the healing
                    > field" with these words:
                    >
                    > "And, Spirit of all living things,
                    > I live to hallow Your name
                    > among lost and wandering
                    > Souls. So do with me as You
                    > will."
                    >
                    > Klemp's con, along with his
                    > delusion and narcissism, is
                    > making this sound like
                    > he's beseeching Spirit in
                    > a prayer and giving thanks
                    > that he can help "lost Souls"
                    > by touching people with
                    > his common everyday words
                    > and presence... like everyone
                    > else does in life. Except,
                    > HK is more special than
                    > other Souls because he's
                    > the M/LEM of a false
                    > teaching that pretends it's
                    > "Spiritual."
                    >
                    > What's funny is that Klemp
                    > thinks he's giving EKists
                    > a pep talk and is showing
                    > them how they should act
                    > or respond to people if they
                    > are in situations similar to
                    > his as a result of Karma,
                    > tests, and/or as channels
                    > for Spirit.
                    >
                    > What Klemp is clueless of,
                    > and doesn't know, is that
                    > most EKists and even more
                    > non-ECKists have already
                    > responded in ways surpassing
                    > Klemp's experience with his
                    > non-lifethreatening injury.
                    >
                    > Prometheus

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