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Re: Is ECKANKAR a "true path"?

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello All, I thought I d bring this post back to comment on the last statement: If you don t accept the Chairman of the Board of any corporation - pick any
    Message 1 of 6 , Sep 2, 2012
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      Hello All,
      I thought I'd bring this
      post back to comment
      on the last statement:

      "If you don't accept the Chairman of the Board of any corporation - pick any product - or service - do you stop using the product or service? Unless you are looking at the recent situation with Chik-a-Fil, most people focus on whether they need or want the product or service and couldn't name the Chairman of the Board of the corporation - unless maybe it is Disney, Microsoft, or Apple. Get over Harold Klemp. He's (personality Harold Klemp) is not stopping you from being on the Path - whatever you want to call it. He's a Chairman of a Board of a corporation. Only "you" can stop your spiritual growth in whatever way you want to grow. Pick who you want to study with on the Inner - named or unnamed - and just do it"

      ME: This comment about
      laying off any criticisms of
      Klemp because he's merely
      the CEO of Eckankar and
      doesn't represent the product
      is silly. If one follows this
      line of thought HK shouldn't
      be held personally responsible
      for false advertising or for
      the spiritual growth of Ekists.
      The truth is HK's "product"
      is ineffective and can be
      dangerous. It teaches self-
      hypnosis.

      And, what's the point of
      having a LEM or a Mahanta
      if he has nothing to do with
      an ECKist's spiritual growth...
      the product? After all, who
      approves of and hands out
      initiations? Aren't these
      associated with spiritual
      growth? If not, then, why
      not just resign from Eckankar
      and give up those coveted
      initiations and proceed upon
      the "path" without Klemp's
      help?

      What this EK apologist is
      refusing to see is that Klemp
      is actually selling himself
      as the "product." Everything
      EK is designed around the
      LEM/Mahanta and Klemp's
      Books, CDs, DVDs, Pictures,
      Brochures and Seminar talks.

      Anyway, this EKist has
      a solution. Just "Pick who
      you want to study with
      on the Inner - named
      or unnamed - and just
      do it." In other words
      just pretend and dream
      up anyone. It can be an
      "unnamed" or "unknown"
      master of some sort. Or,
      the Paulji fans can just
      look to him for guidance
      and imagine that he's
      helping them! Paul would
      love to know that his
      joke is being perpetuated.
      It's all quite delusional,
      but also quite easy and
      is a comfortable belief
      which doesn't require
      much thought or effort.
      It's no wonder Paul had
      a discourse named The
      Easy Way.

      Prometheus



      Caesi tigeroverflow wrote:
      >
      > From time to time I am read this, and read the most recent posts about comments about whether the "path" of ECK is real, and also very negative slanderous / libelous remarks against Harold Klemp, Paul Twitchell, l. Ron Hubbard, et.al.
      >
      > If the goal of the "group" here is to explore spiritual experiences and share, does it need to often take a negative "tone"? I believe this group serves a valuable purpose. But detouring off on tangents which could get it shut down, or create a legal "mess" for stating accusations against public figure -- unless you have SOLID PROOF - then post it for everyone to see - what is the point? Slander and libel are causable legal actions. Why bring that down on this group?
      >
      > There are so many other topics that can be discussed openly. Discussing the parallels between Paul's writings and where he possibly sourced the reference material - other paths and religions, other teachings - that educational and "helpful".
      >
      > Sometimes, I feel like some posters are "splitting hairs". Paul probably did come up with the word "Mahanta". I sense it derived from the word "Mantra". Earlier writings of Paul's talks about chanting the word "Mahanta". Does it really matter what the labels are called?
      >
      > Acknowledging Paul as a genius at self-branding and branding a new path - how many people could not only found a religious path (that is fairly easy), but grow it to the point the seedling actually began to grow at the pace ECKANKAR did? On some level the Universe wanted Paul to be successful.
      >
      > For me, I don't know about for you all, I find it easy to separate "the path" from the "corporation". Harold Klemp is the legal spiritual leader of the corporation. He is not the path. ECKANKAR path and organization will out-survive him. At best, he is a corporate chairman of the board who is a mouthpiece for the mission of the corporation. There will be another after him, etc. Most chairmen's of boards know more about the mission statement and how to carry it out, than their boards' directors, officers, and regional heads.
      >
      > It feels, to me, like we are splitting semantics...
      >
      > Do most of us agree there is "something"  - Inner world experiences tend to stick with us, like strong memories and have impact. TV shows from last night have a different type of stored memory.
      >
      > Even if you dislike the corporation of ECKANKAR and how it carries out its mission statement - - does it discount the path itself?
      >
      > Paul's research tracked similar experiences and beliefs across a number of spiritual paths and teachings. Where they all intersected - that was what he NAMED ECKANKAR. (perhaps altering the name Eckumkar). Many of the experiences, spiritual beings, etc. transcend across paths - and beyond earthworld languaging.
      >
      > Recently someone commented to me there are more HIs now. I countered with "Really? How can you be 'sure'?" I sure don't know. If spiritual teachers are across all paths and go back to the beginning of time, who is to say? And yes, Paul did brand a set for himself as ECK Masters. (Attempt at humor - do you think the being signed some sort of "exclusive contract" with Paul on the Inner planes?)
      >
      > For me, it's not a situation to 'throw out the baby with the bath water'. Paul delivered hope and acceptance to people who had experiences that either they couldn't explain, or were afraid from. It was a gift he gave to this world, and his writings live on.
      >
      > Spiritual Leaders still have human traits while in physical bodies. Undoubtedly, if we want to sit around and put them under a microscope we will find something we can judge them or anyone else for. Is that really how you see yourself growing spiritually - pointing our flaws in others trying to do their best?
      >
      > Where you put your spiritual attention you go. There is so much that can be learned from Paul and the others. Whatever you want to call your personal spiritual experience, I believe something exists we are all apart of on the other side.
      >
      > If you don't accept the Chairman of the Board of any corporation - pick any product - or service - do you stop using the product or service? Unless you are looking at the recent situation with Chik-a-Fil, most people focus on whether they need or want the product or service and couldn't name the Chairman of the Board of the corporation  - unless maybe it is Disney, Microsoft, or Apple.  Get over Harold Klemp. He's (personality Harold Klemp) is not stopping you from being on the Path - whatever you want to call it. He's a Chairman of a Board of a corporation. Only "you"  can stop your spiritual growth in whatever way you want to grow. Pick who you want to study with on the Inner - named or unnamed - and just do it.
      >
    • Janice Pfeiffer
      I ve been a way.  I am catching up on posts.  I have only one thing to say about this question about Is eckankar a true path....   WAY TO GO PROMETHEUS! 
      Message 2 of 6 , Sep 4, 2012
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        I've been a way.  I am catching up on posts.  I have only one thing to say about this question about Is eckankar a true path....
         
        WAY TO GO PROMETHEUS!  With your words today, you have become my hero!  You have dispatched this fault finder with our group with alacrity.  Loved it!

        --- On Tue, 8/28/12, prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...> wrote:

        From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
        Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Is ECKANKAR a "true path"?
        To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Tuesday, August 28, 2012, 10:51 PM

         
        Hello Caesi (aka Tigeroverflow; Paulji_teen),
        One of the problems, it seems,
        is that you only come in to read
        "from time to time." You've missed
        out on reading more facts and
        evidence supporting our comments.
        I'll address some of your opinions
        below as (ME).

        Caesi tigeroverflow wrote:
        From time to time I am read this, and read the most recent posts about comments about whether the "path" of ECK is real, and also very negative slanderous / libelous remarks against Harold Klemp, Paul Twitchell, l. Ron Hubbard, et.al.

        ME: Twitchell was a liar and a conman,
        as was Gross, L. Ron Hubbard and as
        is Klemp. One can't get much more
        "negative" than these pseudo masters!
        Sure the Truth hurts the deluded
        sheep, such as yourself, but it's not
        slanderous nor libelous. Truth is Truth!

        If the goal of the "group" here is to explore spiritual experiences and share, does it need to often take a negative "tone"? I believe this group serves a valuable purpose. But detouring off on tangents which could get it shut down, or create a legal "mess" for stating accusations against public figure -- unless you have SOLID PROOF - then post it for everyone to see - what is the point? Slander and libel are causable legal actions. Why bring that down on this group?

        ME: Perhaps you really should read
        more. The introduction to this group
        spells it out rather clearly. Our goal
        is to discuss, educate, and share our
        EKperiences and point out the flaws
        in the dogma and various reasons as
        to why, in our opinion, Eckankar is
        a cult and scam. We don't fear "legal
        action" because public figures are
        fair game and we have more proof
        to disprove their claims than they
        do ours. Plus, we are the "victims"
        of this scam and were tricked and
        cheated out of thousands of dollars!
        Your fear tactics, which you have
        learned as a cultist (ECKist), don't
        work here. Besides, I really can't wait
        to hear testimony by Rebazar Tarzs
        and some of the other 500 year old,
        and older, ECK Masters who are still
        here on earth with "physical bodies."
        LOL!


        There are so many other topics that can be discussed openly. Discussing the parallels between Paul's writings and where he possibly sourced the reference material - other paths and religions, other teachings - that educational and "helpful".

        ME: This has been discussed and can
        be found in the Links and Files. It's
        documented proof that Twitchell
        Plagiarized much of his material from
        "The Path of the Masters." His previous
        comments about meeting Sudar/Kirpal
        in Paris, France (Paris, Kentucky) has
        also been noted. Thus, there was no
        first trip to India when PT was 15 years
        old. Therefore, the second trip and
        the meeting of Rebazar and the continued
        initiations 3-7 did not happen either.
        Nor a third trip where PT received the
        rest of his initiations 8-12 in circa
        1952.

        Sometimes, I feel like some posters are "splitting hairs". Paul probably did come up with the word "Mahanta". I sense it derived from the word "Mantra". Earlier writings of Paul's talks about chanting the word "Mahanta". Does it really matter what the labels are called?

        ME: Your not very aware are you?
        It's been pointed out that Twit
        found the definition of Mahanta
        in the book "The Holy Science"
        by Swami Sri Yukteswar of the
        Self-Realization Fellowship. On
        the introduction page (vi) it
        states that, In 1894, when this
        book was written" that the author,
        Swami Sri Yuketswar was "initiated
        into the Swami Order by the
        Mahanta (monastery head) of
        the Buddha Gaya, Bihar, and took
        the monastic name of Sri Yukestwar."
        Therefore, Twit lied about Rebazar
        and the other masters he created
        being the "Mahanta" since this
        title and position was created by
        Twitchell in 1968. Lies built upon
        more lies!


        Acknowledging Paul as a genius at self-branding and branding a new path - how many people could not only found a religious path (that is fairly easy), but grow it to the point the seedling actually began to grow at the pace ECKANKAR did? On some level the Universe wanted Paul to be successful.

        ME: Twit a Genius? That's a laugh.
        You're either deluded, stupid, or
        naive! Or, you might be as criminal
        as Twit and that's why you're protecting
        his PR image.

        For me, I don't know about for you all, I find it easy to separate "the path" from the "corporation". Harold Klemp is the legal spiritual leader of the corporation. He is not the path. ECKANKAR path and organization will out-survive him. At best, he is a corporate chairman of the board who is a mouthpiece for the mission of the corporation. There will be another after him, etc. Most chairmen's of boards know more about the mission statement and how to carry it out, than their boards' directors, officers, and regional heads.

        ME: That's part of your problem.
        The "Path" doesn't exist. Eckankar
        is a "religion" like Scientology and
        Mormonism and it's a business just
        like all religions. It's even named
        Eckankar, Religion of the Light and
        Sound of God.

        It feels, to me, like we are splitting semantics...

        ME: No, we aren't.
        BTW- That's "splitting hairs!"

        Do most of us agree there is "something" - Inner world experiences tend to stick with us, like strong memories and have impact. TV shows from last night have a different type of stored memory.

        Even if you dislike the corporation of ECKANKAR and how it carries out its mission statement - - does it discount the path itself?

        ME: Yes! It's dishonest and
        is bait and switch! The fact
        that I have to point that out
        to you is a "red flag" and is
        of concern regarding your
        critical thinking and decision
        making process.

        Paul's research tracked similar experiences and beliefs across a number of spiritual paths and teachings. Where they all intersected - that was what he NAMED ECKANKAR. (perhaps altering the name Eckumkar). Many of the experiences, spiritual beings, etc. transcend across paths - and beyond earthworld languaging.

        ME: Research! Don't make me laugh.
        Paul was a follower of Kirpal Singh
        of Radsoami Satsang for ten years.
        Kirpal returned PT's "The Tiger's Fang"
        manuscript to him in 1966. They had
        a falling out because Twit lied his arse
        off and embellished everything in the
        book. Kirpal, in the book, was in the
        earlier role that was later assigned to
        Rebazar. Even Klemp pointed out that
        at age 27, in 1935, that Twit was lying
        to get into Who's Who in Kentucky.


        Recently someone commented to me there are more HIs now. I countered with "Really? How can you be 'sure'?" I sure don't know. If spiritual teachers are across all paths and go back to the beginning of time, who is to say? And yes, Paul did brand a set for himself as ECK Masters. (Attempt at humor - do you think the being signed some sort of "exclusive contract" with Paul on the Inner planes?)

        ME: It's only logical that there would
        be more H.I.s now since not that many
        people are recruited or stay. Therefore,
        even with HK slowing initiations down,
        there would have to be more 5ths.

        For me, it's not a situation to 'throw out the baby with the bath water'. Paul delivered hope and acceptance to people who had experiences that either they couldn't explain, or were afraid from. It was a gift he gave to this world, and his writings live on.

        ME: It's not about throwing the
        baby out with the dirty bath water.
        The foundation of Eckankar is
        built upon lies (sand) and these
        lies have been accepted as truth
        and have become a corrupted
        part of people's dreams, thinking,
        and mindset in general.


        Spiritual Leaders still have human traits while in physical bodies. Undoubtedly, if we want to sit around and put them under a microscope we will find something we can judge them or anyone else for. Is that really how you see yourself growing spiritually - pointing our flaws in others trying to do their best?

        ME: You are deluded! You
        need religion don't you!
        Your weak and need to be
        led around by the nose by
        some fake master. What was
        Twit's promise? Self-Mastery
        and Spiritual Liberation in
        this lifetime? Yeah right!
        Early on, Paul wrote about
        The Cliff Hanger who was
        his own religion and a law
        unto himself. But, Eckists
        will never see that they are
        their own religion, as well,
        and don't need to be followers.
        Except, it always easier to
        follow than to think for yourself.

        Where you put your spiritual attention you go. There is so much that can be learned from Paul and the others. Whatever you want to call your personal spiritual experience, I believe something exists we are all apart of on the other side.

        ME: And, thus, you are going nowhere!
        You are living in a pretend world constructed
        by a liar and conman with a hodgepodge
        of mumbo-jumbo and subjective material.
        Why believe in others when you can write
        your own book by walking your own unique
        and individual path? You sound like a sheep
        seeking justification to remain in the flock
        of lower group consciousness. Besides, those
        "initiations" are phony. I'd like to see Klemp
        prove that they aren't!

        If you don't accept the Chairman of the Board of any corporation - pick any product - or service - do you stop using the product or service? Unless you are looking at the recent situation with Chik-a-Fil, most people focus on whether they need or want the product or service and couldn't name the Chairman of the Board of the corporation - unless maybe it is Disney, Microsoft, or Apple. Get over Harold Klemp. He's (personality Harold Klemp) is not stopping you from being on the Path - whatever you want to call it. He's a Chairman of a Board of a corporation. Only "you" can stop your spiritual growth in whatever way you want to grow. Pick who you want to study with on the Inner - named or unnamed - and just do it.

        ME: "Just do it?" Really?
        I don't wear Nikes or EK!
        You can't stand it that
        your heroes are being
        outed for being conmen
        and liars. You sound like
        EK apologist Doug Marman.

        No, we won't take our eye
        off the goal of telling the
        Truth about the Eckankar
        Cult.

        You're playing Klemp's role
        down by pretending that he
        hasn't made outrageous claims
        that he'll never be able to prove.
        Why is the "Mahanta" still having
        ECKists write IROs/HIROs via
        snail mail? Why will there be
        a 2012 ECK World Wide Seminar
        on the Physical and lowest Plane
        of Con?

        Why not, at least, have the H.I.
        Meeting on the "Inner" somewhere?
        But, no, it'll be in the main hall.
        BTW- Why is the fearless Mahanta
        (Klemp) still have people searched
        and going through Metal Detectors
        when he gives his Saturday Night
        Talk? That's not very detached is it!

        Prometheus


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