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Re: Why Eckists See Masters [another perspective]

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello Tygerpurr and All, I enjoyed your ramblings. Now for mine. LOL! BTW-That s interesting what you mentioned about Jewish Mysticism (Kabbalah?) where
    Message 1 of 4 , Sep 1, 2012
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      Hello Tygerpurr and All,
      I enjoyed your "ramblings."
      Now for mine. LOL!
      BTW-That's interesting
      what you mentioned about
      Jewish Mysticism (Kabbalah?)
      where "there are 'angels'
      for every little thing."

      Of course, the Romans
      had "gods" for every little
      thing too!

      And, let's not forget that
      other religions promote
      the belief in angels. The
      "parking space" angel is
      invoked hundreds/thousands
      of times daily! Eckankar
      promotes angels too,
      which makes one wonder
      why. Then, when one gives
      it some thought, you realize
      that it's because everyone
      knows about angels. It's
      like with dreams since
      everyone dreams. Twit,
      and now Klemp, have just
      taken common topics
      and exploited these in
      order to sell Eckankar.

      However, the topic of
      group, ethnic, Nations,
      and Planet consciousness
      does sound more intriguing
      and believable. There must,
      also, be a group consciousness
      within groups. Ever notice
      how one Satsang Society
      differs from another, or
      even how a local area or
      EK Center differs from
      another in the same state?
      Even the RESA's bulling via
      their ego and individual
      consciousness can't control
      situations or people as much
      as they try. Their excuse
      for failure to control? They've
      turned it over to the Mahanta
      or to the ECK for the good
      of the whole. This way, they
      save, some, face locally,
      but the ESC (Klemp's gang)
      doesn't always accept failure
      as being the "Will" of the Sugmad,
      or of the ECK, or the Mahanta.

      This is especially true when
      the target is more money via
      more donations, sales, and
      more memberships. I knew
      of one area that had fantastic
      "numbers" (hundreds) for intros
      and other events but it never
      resulted into EK memberships.
      Maybe 1 out of 100 people
      and who knows (the ESC does)
      if they stayed and renewed
      after the first year.

      Yeah, Clint Eastwood is a dick.
      He's 82 so it must be dementia
      among other things. He's probably
      been an arse all his life. Klemp
      is a dick too, and he's aging
      more rapidly than Eastwood has!
      As far as Romney... I think he
      has Early Onset Alzheimer's.
      "Where'd the water come from,
      the sky, the rivers, the ocean?"
      'The trees are the right height.'
      "And now I'd like to introduce
      the next President of the United
      States, Paul Ryan!" There's more
      of course and he's sounding
      more like G.W. everyday. The
      debates should be a lot of
      interesting, but on Mitt's part
      a lot of repetition without much
      substance and limited response.
      The fact check should be interesting.

      I'm sure if Klemp had a
      daily radio program we'd be
      hearing some nutty things
      (and lies) coming out of his
      mouth. Of course that'd never
      happen because Klemp is
      too lazy and incompetent
      to prepare for a daily radio
      program, and only gives Lip
      Service to being a vehicle for
      the ECK like his Vahanas.

      That's why everything EK is
      so controlled and manipulated.
      Klemp's always rehearsed,
      reading off notes, and doesn't
      present himself on a daily
      (current) basis. He lives in
      the past and not in the "NOW,"
      and only comes out of his
      hole every "Blue moon."

      It makes one wonder why
      a LEM is needed in the first
      place when everything i.e.
      stories, opinions, etc. "shared"
      is somewhat passé by the
      time it comes out in print.
      When looking at the H.I.
      Letter one will see group
      pictures that are one year
      old! I wonder if some of
      those older H.I.s are still
      kicking by the time the pic
      is printed in the EK Pub
      sent, btw, via snail mail?

      Really, if Klemp wanted
      to be current and in the
      "now" with his flock Why
      doesn't this 14th Initiate
      communicate on the INNER
      with, at least, his Higher
      Initiates?

      What's the excuse for not
      scheduling daily group
      lessons on the Inner? EKies
      could just go on the EK
      Internet site and check
      out times and topics for
      a daily group INNER class.
      Nobody has dared to ask
      Klemp Why there aren't
      INNER CLASSES or SEMINARS.

      Once again, this proves
      that H.K.'s claims are all
      Lip Service! Shouldn't a 5th
      or a 6th Initiate be able
      to do great things? Look
      at the definitions for those
      initiation levels in Ch. 12
      of the Shariyat Book 2.

      Klemp can't fulfill the
      promises and claims via
      real proof! Eckankar is
      a Bait and Switch con
      hiding behind the protections
      in the Constitution, thus,
      giving religions special
      tax exempt status. But,
      this also means that former
      members can criticize them.
      They've made big promises
      and have blamed the individual
      when their promises can't be
      delivered or proven except
      with an active imagination
      via belief and faith.

      There are all sorts of
      Catch-22s with Eckankar
      like: Consciousness is
      won and lost in every
      moment. Does that mean
      that the "moments" (that
      con is lost) is less often,
      or less frequent, for those
      with Higher Initiations?

      Thus, when the Pink Slip
      for promotion to the next
      initiation is snail-mailed
      the EKists' con(sciousness)
      is "won" and is stable. And,
      when they receive the initiation
      from the Mahanta, via the
      Initiator, that means they
      are pure/stable on that level
      of consciousness too right?
      So, why is it that sending
      out the Pink Slip and receiving
      the Initiation are the only
      two "moments" that their
      Higher Spiritual "Consciousness"
      is guaranteed?

      Prometheus


      "tygerpurr" wrote:
      It is interesting. People who have had near death experiences may have an
      experience that fits their culture or beliefs. And some who have had strokes on
      the left side of the brain experience Bliss. there's a good book written by a
      Neuroscientist called "Stroke of Insight" about her personal experience with
      this.

      I was reading a book recently "Jew in the Lotus", in which an explanation
      of Jewish Mysticism is explained to the Dalia Lama, and there are "angels" for
      every little thing, as well as group consciousness, ethnic consciousness,
      Nations, the Planet and so on. Who knows?

      On the one hand I think we see our projections a lot. I talk to someone
      on the phone whom I haven't met and for some reason I visualize them
      as thin, but when I meet them they are pretty meaty and their personality
      is much kinder than their phone personality. Even there, I am making all
      kinds of assumptions about them. In reality, it often takes a long time to
      really know what someone is really like.

      We see movie stars and celebrities a lot in media and we get this false sense
      that we know them on some intimate level. Who would have thought that Clint
      Eastwood was such a ding bat ass. : ) In person I may like him even, that is
      until I got to know him better.

      I still like the idea of programming my dreams, but now it is more fun and my
      focus is on compassion and working through life stuff, at least that is my plan.
      What really happens is so much below conscious awareness, I think. I am just
      trying to heal. Sometimes I have dreams that hint of things that do happen a
      week or two latter. Maybe it's Jung's Collective Unconscious or something like
      that. I try to not take it to seriously, but that's not really true. I take some
      of this too seriously. I'm also too hard on myself still. Compassion is what I
      keep coming back to. I resist my being too much sometimes and then I resist
      resisting, so then I just let it be and sometimes there is a shift, and a sense
      of ease. Not every day is a good day or a bad day.

      Tonight I will allow for my own wise compassionate being to accompany, even if
      it is in the form of my cat that passed away a few years ago. I don't really
      care for authoritarian "masters".

      well sorry for the rambling and I wish everyone pleasant dreams.

      Tygerpurr ; )

      "prometheus wrote:
      >
      > This is not my belief
      > but I thought I'd share
      > it From the Files:
      >
      > "Like all worlds, the emotional consists of three basically different kinds of
      matter: involvatory matter (primary matter), involutionary matter (secondary
      matter), and evolutionary matter (tertiary and quaternary matter). Involvatory
      matter lacks consciousness, involutionary matter possesses actualized passive
      consciousness, and evolutionary matter has active consciousness.
      >
      > The primary matter of the emotional world acts as a blind force. The secondary
      matter of the emotional world makes conception, emotion, imagination possible,
      with a rational content that varies according to the percentage of mental atoms
      in emotional molecules and the percentages of the molecular kinds in the
      emotional envelope.
      >
      > All involutionary matter (atoms and molecules) has passive consciousness. When
      man "thinks", his imagination shapes elementals in emotional matter, emotional
      material forms, live emotional beings with activated emotional consciousness,
      corresponding to consciousness in that thought which formed them. The lifetime
      of these beings depends on the degree of the emotional energy that produced
      them. As a rule this lasts for a minute or so, whereupon the form dissolves and
      the emotional molecules return to their original states.
      > It is involutionary matter, with its delusive life-forms, that men take for
      permanent reality and that is the ground and cause of the illusions of mankind.
      >
      > As a term of world 48 the "emotional world" is to be preferred to the usual,
      the "astral world", since the emotional forms largely composing that world are
      shaped by human emotional consciousness.
      >
      > A man with a sufficiently strong imagination studies a legend of a saint and
      enters into the life of that saint. So he unconsciously constructs such a saint
      in the emotional world and will meet him when he has "passed on"."
      >
      > page 7 The Way of Man by Henry T. Laurency
      >
      >
      >
      > "In the emotional world there are live replicas of all beings that men
      "worship". All historical personages are found there in live emotional replicas,
      which the ignorant take for genuine. Being robots, they say what you know they
      said in the physical world. The majority of true believers have, under the
      influence of religious, spiritualist, yogic, etc. fictitious systems,
      unwittingly shaped a "divine form" or a "master" or a "guide" in the emotional
      world; generally a new form in each incarnation. In many cases, these emotional
      forms have been taken over by people in the emotional world who think they are
      able to help in this way."
      >
      > page 27 The Way of Man by Henry T. Laurency
      >
      >
      >
      > "The greatest perplexing factor, however, is the fact that the emotional world
      is the particular world of desires. Everything emotional, all desires and
      expectations (also unconscious ones) immediately assume concrete forms in
      emotional matter. It is unavoidable that the clairvoyant takes those emotional
      forms for enduring reality. In the emotional world the religious see their gods,
      masters, spiritual guides. In that world you have all your preconceived opinions
      confirmed. For you see that they are realities, and your belief in them is even
      more fixated."
      >
      > page 18 The Explanation by Lars Adelskogh
      >
    • Russ Rodnick
      i like that your cat as a master. why not, right? ________________________________ From: tygerpurr To:
      Message 2 of 4 , Sep 2, 2012
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        i like that your cat as a master. why not, right?

        From: tygerpurr <tygerpurr@...>
        To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 4:05 AM
        Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Why Eckists See Masters [another perspective]

         
        It is interesting. People who have had near death experiences may have an
        experience that fits their culture or beliefs. And some who have had strokes on
        the left side of the brain experience Bliss. there's a good book written by a
        Neuroscientist called "Stroke of Insight" about her personal experience with
        this. I was reading a book recently "Jew in the Lotus", in which an explanation
        of Jewish Mysticism is explained to the Dalia Lama, and there are "angels" for
        every little thing, as well as group consciousness, ethnic consciousness,
        Nations, the Planet and so on. Who knows? On the one hand I think we see our
        projections a lot. I talk to someone on the phone whom I haven't met and for
        some reason I visualize them as thin, but when I meet them they are pretty meaty
        and their personality is much kinder than their phone personality. Even there, I
        am making all kinds of assumptions about them. In reality, it often takes a long
        time to really know what someone is really like.

        We see movie stars and celebrities a lot in media and we get this false sense
        that we know them on some intimate level. Who would have thought that Clint
        Eastwood was such a ding bat ass. : ) In person I may like him even, that is
        until I got to know him better.

        I still like the idea of programming my dreams, but now it is more fun and my
        focus is on compassion and working through life stuff, at least that is my plan.
        What really happens is so much below conscious awareness, I think. I am just
        trying to heal. Sometimes I have dreams that hint of things that do happen a
        week or two latter. Maybe it's Jung's Collective Unconscious or something like
        that. I try to not take it to seriously, but that's not really true. I take some
        of this too seriously. I'm also too hard on myself still. Compassion is what I
        keep coming back to. I resist my being too much sometimes and then I resist
        resisting, so then I just let it be and sometimes there is a shift, and a sense
        of ease. Not every day is a good day or a bad day.

        Tonight I will allow for my own wise compassionate being to accompany, even if
        it is in the form of my cat that passed away a few years ago. I don't really
        care for authoritarian "masters".

        well sorry for the rambling and I wish everyone pleasant dreams.

        Tygerpurr ; )

        --- In mailto:EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous%40yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
        >
        > This is not my belief
        > but I thought I'd share
        > it From the Files:
        >
        > "Like all worlds, the emotional consists of three basically different kinds of matter: involvatory matter (primary matter), involutionary matter (secondary matter), and evolutionary matter (tertiary and quaternary matter). Involvatory matter lacks consciousness, involutionary matter possesses actualized passive consciousness, and evolutionary matter has active consciousness.
        >
        > The primary matter of the emotional world acts as a blind force. The secondary matter of the emotional world makes conception, emotion, imagination possible, with a rational content that varies according to the percentage of mental atoms in emotional molecules and the percentages of the molecular kinds in the emotional envelope.
        >
        > All involutionary matter (atoms and molecules) has passive consciousness. When man "thinks", his imagination shapes elementals in emotional matter, emotional material forms, live emotional beings with activated emotional consciousness, corresponding to consciousness in that thought which formed them. The lifetime of these beings depends on the degree of the emotional energy that produced them. As a rule this lasts for a minute or so, whereupon the form dissolves and the emotional molecules return to their original states.
        > It is involutionary matter, with its delusive life-forms, that men take for permanent reality and that is the ground and cause of the illusions of mankind.
        >
        > As a term of world 48 the "emotional world" is to be preferred to the usual, the "astral world", since the emotional forms largely composing that world are shaped by human emotional consciousness.
        >
        > A man with a sufficiently strong imagination studies a legend of a saint and enters into the life of that saint. So he unconsciously constructs such a saint in the emotional world and will meet him when he has "passed on"."
        >
        > page 7 The Way of Man by Henry T. Laurency
        >
        >
        >
        > "In the emotional world there are live replicas of all beings that men "worship". All historical personages are found there in live emotional replicas, which the ignorant take for genuine. Being robots, they say what you know they said in the physical world. The majority of true believers have, under the influence of religious, spiritualist, yogic, etc. fictitious systems, unwittingly shaped a "divine form" or a "master" or a "guide" in the emotional world; generally a new form in each incarnation. In many cases, these emotional forms have been taken over by people in the emotional world who think they are able to help in this way."
        >
        > page 27 The Way of Man by Henry T. Laurency
        >
        >
        >
        > "The greatest perplexing factor, however, is the fact that the emotional world is the particular world of desires. Everything emotional, all desires and expectations (also unconscious ones) immediately assume concrete forms in emotional matter. It is unavoidable that the clairvoyant takes those emotional forms for enduring reality. In the emotional world the religious see their gods, masters, spiritual guides. In that world you have all your preconceived opinions confirmed. For you see that they are realities, and your belief in them is even more fixated."
        >
        > page 18 The Explanation by Lars Adelskogh
        >



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