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Why Eckists See Masters [another perspective]

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  • prometheus_973
    This is not my belief but I thought I d share it From the Files: Like all worlds, the emotional consists of three basically different kinds of matter:
    Message 1 of 4 , Aug 30, 2012
      This is not my belief
      but I thought I'd share
      it From the Files:

      "Like all worlds, the emotional consists of three basically different kinds of matter: involvatory matter (primary matter), involutionary matter (secondary matter), and evolutionary matter (tertiary and quaternary matter). Involvatory matter lacks consciousness, involutionary matter possesses actualized passive consciousness, and evolutionary matter has active consciousness.

      The primary matter of the emotional world acts as a blind force. The secondary matter of the emotional world makes conception, emotion, imagination possible, with a rational content that varies according to the percentage of mental atoms in emotional molecules and the percentages of the molecular kinds in the emotional envelope.

      All involutionary matter (atoms and molecules) has passive consciousness. When man "thinks", his imagination shapes elementals in emotional matter, emotional material forms, live emotional beings with activated emotional consciousness, corresponding to consciousness in that thought which formed them. The lifetime of these beings depends on the degree of the emotional energy that produced them. As a rule this lasts for a minute or so, whereupon the form dissolves and the emotional molecules return to their original states.
      It is involutionary matter, with its delusive life-forms, that men take for permanent reality and that is the ground and cause of the illusions of mankind.

      As a term of world 48 the "emotional world" is to be preferred to the usual, the "astral world", since the emotional forms largely composing that world are shaped by human emotional consciousness.

      A man with a sufficiently strong imagination studies a legend of a saint and enters into the life of that saint. So he unconsciously constructs such a saint in the emotional world and will meet him when he has "passed on"."

      page 7 The Way of Man by Henry T. Laurency



      "In the emotional world there are live replicas of all beings that men "worship". All historical personages are found there in live emotional replicas, which the ignorant take for genuine. Being robots, they say what you know they said in the physical world. The majority of true believers have, under the influence of religious, spiritualist, yogic, etc. fictitious systems, unwittingly shaped a "divine form" or a "master" or a "guide" in the emotional world; generally a new form in each incarnation. In many cases, these emotional forms have been taken over by people in the emotional world who think they are able to help in this way."

      page 27 The Way of Man by Henry T. Laurency



      "The greatest perplexing factor, however, is the fact that the emotional world is the particular world of desires. Everything emotional, all desires and expectations (also unconscious ones) immediately assume concrete forms in emotional matter. It is unavoidable that the clairvoyant takes those emotional forms for enduring reality. In the emotional world the religious see their gods, masters, spiritual guides. In that world you have all your preconceived opinions confirmed. For you see that they are realities, and your belief in them is even more fixated."

      page 18 The Explanation by Lars Adelskogh
    • tygerpurr
      It is interesting. People who have had near death experiences may have an experience that fits their culture or beliefs. And some who have had strokes on the
      Message 2 of 4 , Aug 31, 2012
        It is interesting. People who have had near death experiences may have an
        experience that fits their culture or beliefs. And some who have had strokes on
        the left side of the brain experience Bliss. there's a good book written by a
        Neuroscientist called "Stroke of Insight" about her personal experience with
        this. I was reading a book recently "Jew in the Lotus", in which an explanation
        of Jewish Mysticism is explained to the Dalia Lama, and there are "angels" for
        every little thing, as well as group consciousness, ethnic consciousness,
        Nations, the Planet and so on. Who knows? On the one hand I think we see our
        projections a lot. I talk to someone on the phone whom I haven't met and for
        some reason I visualize them as thin, but when I meet them they are pretty meaty
        and their personality is much kinder than their phone personality. Even there, I
        am making all kinds of assumptions about them. In reality, it often takes a long
        time to really know what someone is really like.

        We see movie stars and celebrities a lot in media and we get this false sense
        that we know them on some intimate level. Who would have thought that Clint
        Eastwood was such a ding bat ass. : ) In person I may like him even, that is
        until I got to know him better.

        I still like the idea of programming my dreams, but now it is more fun and my
        focus is on compassion and working through life stuff, at least that is my plan.
        What really happens is so much below conscious awareness, I think. I am just
        trying to heal. Sometimes I have dreams that hint of things that do happen a
        week or two latter. Maybe it's Jung's Collective Unconscious or something like
        that. I try to not take it to seriously, but that's not really true. I take some
        of this too seriously. I'm also too hard on myself still. Compassion is what I
        keep coming back to. I resist my being too much sometimes and then I resist
        resisting, so then I just let it be and sometimes there is a shift, and a sense
        of ease. Not every day is a good day or a bad day.

        Tonight I will allow for my own wise compassionate being to accompany, even if
        it is in the form of my cat that passed away a few years ago. I don't really
        care for authoritarian "masters".

        well sorry for the rambling and I wish everyone pleasant dreams.

        Tygerpurr ; )

        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
        >
        > This is not my belief
        > but I thought I'd share
        > it From the Files:
        >
        > "Like all worlds, the emotional consists of three basically different kinds of matter: involvatory matter (primary matter), involutionary matter (secondary matter), and evolutionary matter (tertiary and quaternary matter). Involvatory matter lacks consciousness, involutionary matter possesses actualized passive consciousness, and evolutionary matter has active consciousness.
        >
        > The primary matter of the emotional world acts as a blind force. The secondary matter of the emotional world makes conception, emotion, imagination possible, with a rational content that varies according to the percentage of mental atoms in emotional molecules and the percentages of the molecular kinds in the emotional envelope.
        >
        > All involutionary matter (atoms and molecules) has passive consciousness. When man "thinks", his imagination shapes elementals in emotional matter, emotional material forms, live emotional beings with activated emotional consciousness, corresponding to consciousness in that thought which formed them. The lifetime of these beings depends on the degree of the emotional energy that produced them. As a rule this lasts for a minute or so, whereupon the form dissolves and the emotional molecules return to their original states.
        > It is involutionary matter, with its delusive life-forms, that men take for permanent reality and that is the ground and cause of the illusions of mankind.
        >
        > As a term of world 48 the "emotional world" is to be preferred to the usual, the "astral world", since the emotional forms largely composing that world are shaped by human emotional consciousness.
        >
        > A man with a sufficiently strong imagination studies a legend of a saint and enters into the life of that saint. So he unconsciously constructs such a saint in the emotional world and will meet him when he has "passed on"."
        >
        > page 7 The Way of Man by Henry T. Laurency
        >
        >
        >
        > "In the emotional world there are live replicas of all beings that men "worship". All historical personages are found there in live emotional replicas, which the ignorant take for genuine. Being robots, they say what you know they said in the physical world. The majority of true believers have, under the influence of religious, spiritualist, yogic, etc. fictitious systems, unwittingly shaped a "divine form" or a "master" or a "guide" in the emotional world; generally a new form in each incarnation. In many cases, these emotional forms have been taken over by people in the emotional world who think they are able to help in this way."
        >
        > page 27 The Way of Man by Henry T. Laurency
        >
        >
        >
        > "The greatest perplexing factor, however, is the fact that the emotional world is the particular world of desires. Everything emotional, all desires and expectations (also unconscious ones) immediately assume concrete forms in emotional matter. It is unavoidable that the clairvoyant takes those emotional forms for enduring reality. In the emotional world the religious see their gods, masters, spiritual guides. In that world you have all your preconceived opinions confirmed. For you see that they are realities, and your belief in them is even more fixated."
        >
        > page 18 The Explanation by Lars Adelskogh
        >
      • prometheus_973
        Hello Tygerpurr and All, I enjoyed your ramblings. Now for mine. LOL! BTW-That s interesting what you mentioned about Jewish Mysticism (Kabbalah?) where
        Message 3 of 4 , Sep 1, 2012
          Hello Tygerpurr and All,
          I enjoyed your "ramblings."
          Now for mine. LOL!
          BTW-That's interesting
          what you mentioned about
          Jewish Mysticism (Kabbalah?)
          where "there are 'angels'
          for every little thing."

          Of course, the Romans
          had "gods" for every little
          thing too!

          And, let's not forget that
          other religions promote
          the belief in angels. The
          "parking space" angel is
          invoked hundreds/thousands
          of times daily! Eckankar
          promotes angels too,
          which makes one wonder
          why. Then, when one gives
          it some thought, you realize
          that it's because everyone
          knows about angels. It's
          like with dreams since
          everyone dreams. Twit,
          and now Klemp, have just
          taken common topics
          and exploited these in
          order to sell Eckankar.

          However, the topic of
          group, ethnic, Nations,
          and Planet consciousness
          does sound more intriguing
          and believable. There must,
          also, be a group consciousness
          within groups. Ever notice
          how one Satsang Society
          differs from another, or
          even how a local area or
          EK Center differs from
          another in the same state?
          Even the RESA's bulling via
          their ego and individual
          consciousness can't control
          situations or people as much
          as they try. Their excuse
          for failure to control? They've
          turned it over to the Mahanta
          or to the ECK for the good
          of the whole. This way, they
          save, some, face locally,
          but the ESC (Klemp's gang)
          doesn't always accept failure
          as being the "Will" of the Sugmad,
          or of the ECK, or the Mahanta.

          This is especially true when
          the target is more money via
          more donations, sales, and
          more memberships. I knew
          of one area that had fantastic
          "numbers" (hundreds) for intros
          and other events but it never
          resulted into EK memberships.
          Maybe 1 out of 100 people
          and who knows (the ESC does)
          if they stayed and renewed
          after the first year.

          Yeah, Clint Eastwood is a dick.
          He's 82 so it must be dementia
          among other things. He's probably
          been an arse all his life. Klemp
          is a dick too, and he's aging
          more rapidly than Eastwood has!
          As far as Romney... I think he
          has Early Onset Alzheimer's.
          "Where'd the water come from,
          the sky, the rivers, the ocean?"
          'The trees are the right height.'
          "And now I'd like to introduce
          the next President of the United
          States, Paul Ryan!" There's more
          of course and he's sounding
          more like G.W. everyday. The
          debates should be a lot of
          interesting, but on Mitt's part
          a lot of repetition without much
          substance and limited response.
          The fact check should be interesting.

          I'm sure if Klemp had a
          daily radio program we'd be
          hearing some nutty things
          (and lies) coming out of his
          mouth. Of course that'd never
          happen because Klemp is
          too lazy and incompetent
          to prepare for a daily radio
          program, and only gives Lip
          Service to being a vehicle for
          the ECK like his Vahanas.

          That's why everything EK is
          so controlled and manipulated.
          Klemp's always rehearsed,
          reading off notes, and doesn't
          present himself on a daily
          (current) basis. He lives in
          the past and not in the "NOW,"
          and only comes out of his
          hole every "Blue moon."

          It makes one wonder why
          a LEM is needed in the first
          place when everything i.e.
          stories, opinions, etc. "shared"
          is somewhat passé by the
          time it comes out in print.
          When looking at the H.I.
          Letter one will see group
          pictures that are one year
          old! I wonder if some of
          those older H.I.s are still
          kicking by the time the pic
          is printed in the EK Pub
          sent, btw, via snail mail?

          Really, if Klemp wanted
          to be current and in the
          "now" with his flock Why
          doesn't this 14th Initiate
          communicate on the INNER
          with, at least, his Higher
          Initiates?

          What's the excuse for not
          scheduling daily group
          lessons on the Inner? EKies
          could just go on the EK
          Internet site and check
          out times and topics for
          a daily group INNER class.
          Nobody has dared to ask
          Klemp Why there aren't
          INNER CLASSES or SEMINARS.

          Once again, this proves
          that H.K.'s claims are all
          Lip Service! Shouldn't a 5th
          or a 6th Initiate be able
          to do great things? Look
          at the definitions for those
          initiation levels in Ch. 12
          of the Shariyat Book 2.

          Klemp can't fulfill the
          promises and claims via
          real proof! Eckankar is
          a Bait and Switch con
          hiding behind the protections
          in the Constitution, thus,
          giving religions special
          tax exempt status. But,
          this also means that former
          members can criticize them.
          They've made big promises
          and have blamed the individual
          when their promises can't be
          delivered or proven except
          with an active imagination
          via belief and faith.

          There are all sorts of
          Catch-22s with Eckankar
          like: Consciousness is
          won and lost in every
          moment. Does that mean
          that the "moments" (that
          con is lost) is less often,
          or less frequent, for those
          with Higher Initiations?

          Thus, when the Pink Slip
          for promotion to the next
          initiation is snail-mailed
          the EKists' con(sciousness)
          is "won" and is stable. And,
          when they receive the initiation
          from the Mahanta, via the
          Initiator, that means they
          are pure/stable on that level
          of consciousness too right?
          So, why is it that sending
          out the Pink Slip and receiving
          the Initiation are the only
          two "moments" that their
          Higher Spiritual "Consciousness"
          is guaranteed?

          Prometheus


          "tygerpurr" wrote:
          It is interesting. People who have had near death experiences may have an
          experience that fits their culture or beliefs. And some who have had strokes on
          the left side of the brain experience Bliss. there's a good book written by a
          Neuroscientist called "Stroke of Insight" about her personal experience with
          this.

          I was reading a book recently "Jew in the Lotus", in which an explanation
          of Jewish Mysticism is explained to the Dalia Lama, and there are "angels" for
          every little thing, as well as group consciousness, ethnic consciousness,
          Nations, the Planet and so on. Who knows?

          On the one hand I think we see our projections a lot. I talk to someone
          on the phone whom I haven't met and for some reason I visualize them
          as thin, but when I meet them they are pretty meaty and their personality
          is much kinder than their phone personality. Even there, I am making all
          kinds of assumptions about them. In reality, it often takes a long time to
          really know what someone is really like.

          We see movie stars and celebrities a lot in media and we get this false sense
          that we know them on some intimate level. Who would have thought that Clint
          Eastwood was such a ding bat ass. : ) In person I may like him even, that is
          until I got to know him better.

          I still like the idea of programming my dreams, but now it is more fun and my
          focus is on compassion and working through life stuff, at least that is my plan.
          What really happens is so much below conscious awareness, I think. I am just
          trying to heal. Sometimes I have dreams that hint of things that do happen a
          week or two latter. Maybe it's Jung's Collective Unconscious or something like
          that. I try to not take it to seriously, but that's not really true. I take some
          of this too seriously. I'm also too hard on myself still. Compassion is what I
          keep coming back to. I resist my being too much sometimes and then I resist
          resisting, so then I just let it be and sometimes there is a shift, and a sense
          of ease. Not every day is a good day or a bad day.

          Tonight I will allow for my own wise compassionate being to accompany, even if
          it is in the form of my cat that passed away a few years ago. I don't really
          care for authoritarian "masters".

          well sorry for the rambling and I wish everyone pleasant dreams.

          Tygerpurr ; )

          "prometheus wrote:
          >
          > This is not my belief
          > but I thought I'd share
          > it From the Files:
          >
          > "Like all worlds, the emotional consists of three basically different kinds of
          matter: involvatory matter (primary matter), involutionary matter (secondary
          matter), and evolutionary matter (tertiary and quaternary matter). Involvatory
          matter lacks consciousness, involutionary matter possesses actualized passive
          consciousness, and evolutionary matter has active consciousness.
          >
          > The primary matter of the emotional world acts as a blind force. The secondary
          matter of the emotional world makes conception, emotion, imagination possible,
          with a rational content that varies according to the percentage of mental atoms
          in emotional molecules and the percentages of the molecular kinds in the
          emotional envelope.
          >
          > All involutionary matter (atoms and molecules) has passive consciousness. When
          man "thinks", his imagination shapes elementals in emotional matter, emotional
          material forms, live emotional beings with activated emotional consciousness,
          corresponding to consciousness in that thought which formed them. The lifetime
          of these beings depends on the degree of the emotional energy that produced
          them. As a rule this lasts for a minute or so, whereupon the form dissolves and
          the emotional molecules return to their original states.
          > It is involutionary matter, with its delusive life-forms, that men take for
          permanent reality and that is the ground and cause of the illusions of mankind.
          >
          > As a term of world 48 the "emotional world" is to be preferred to the usual,
          the "astral world", since the emotional forms largely composing that world are
          shaped by human emotional consciousness.
          >
          > A man with a sufficiently strong imagination studies a legend of a saint and
          enters into the life of that saint. So he unconsciously constructs such a saint
          in the emotional world and will meet him when he has "passed on"."
          >
          > page 7 The Way of Man by Henry T. Laurency
          >
          >
          >
          > "In the emotional world there are live replicas of all beings that men
          "worship". All historical personages are found there in live emotional replicas,
          which the ignorant take for genuine. Being robots, they say what you know they
          said in the physical world. The majority of true believers have, under the
          influence of religious, spiritualist, yogic, etc. fictitious systems,
          unwittingly shaped a "divine form" or a "master" or a "guide" in the emotional
          world; generally a new form in each incarnation. In many cases, these emotional
          forms have been taken over by people in the emotional world who think they are
          able to help in this way."
          >
          > page 27 The Way of Man by Henry T. Laurency
          >
          >
          >
          > "The greatest perplexing factor, however, is the fact that the emotional world
          is the particular world of desires. Everything emotional, all desires and
          expectations (also unconscious ones) immediately assume concrete forms in
          emotional matter. It is unavoidable that the clairvoyant takes those emotional
          forms for enduring reality. In the emotional world the religious see their gods,
          masters, spiritual guides. In that world you have all your preconceived opinions
          confirmed. For you see that they are realities, and your belief in them is even
          more fixated."
          >
          > page 18 The Explanation by Lars Adelskogh
          >
        • Russ Rodnick
          i like that your cat as a master. why not, right? ________________________________ From: tygerpurr To:
          Message 4 of 4 , Sep 2, 2012
            i like that your cat as a master. why not, right?

            From: tygerpurr <tygerpurr@...>
            To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 4:05 AM
            Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Why Eckists See Masters [another perspective]

             
            It is interesting. People who have had near death experiences may have an
            experience that fits their culture or beliefs. And some who have had strokes on
            the left side of the brain experience Bliss. there's a good book written by a
            Neuroscientist called "Stroke of Insight" about her personal experience with
            this. I was reading a book recently "Jew in the Lotus", in which an explanation
            of Jewish Mysticism is explained to the Dalia Lama, and there are "angels" for
            every little thing, as well as group consciousness, ethnic consciousness,
            Nations, the Planet and so on. Who knows? On the one hand I think we see our
            projections a lot. I talk to someone on the phone whom I haven't met and for
            some reason I visualize them as thin, but when I meet them they are pretty meaty
            and their personality is much kinder than their phone personality. Even there, I
            am making all kinds of assumptions about them. In reality, it often takes a long
            time to really know what someone is really like.

            We see movie stars and celebrities a lot in media and we get this false sense
            that we know them on some intimate level. Who would have thought that Clint
            Eastwood was such a ding bat ass. : ) In person I may like him even, that is
            until I got to know him better.

            I still like the idea of programming my dreams, but now it is more fun and my
            focus is on compassion and working through life stuff, at least that is my plan.
            What really happens is so much below conscious awareness, I think. I am just
            trying to heal. Sometimes I have dreams that hint of things that do happen a
            week or two latter. Maybe it's Jung's Collective Unconscious or something like
            that. I try to not take it to seriously, but that's not really true. I take some
            of this too seriously. I'm also too hard on myself still. Compassion is what I
            keep coming back to. I resist my being too much sometimes and then I resist
            resisting, so then I just let it be and sometimes there is a shift, and a sense
            of ease. Not every day is a good day or a bad day.

            Tonight I will allow for my own wise compassionate being to accompany, even if
            it is in the form of my cat that passed away a few years ago. I don't really
            care for authoritarian "masters".

            well sorry for the rambling and I wish everyone pleasant dreams.

            Tygerpurr ; )

            --- In mailto:EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous%40yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
            >
            > This is not my belief
            > but I thought I'd share
            > it From the Files:
            >
            > "Like all worlds, the emotional consists of three basically different kinds of matter: involvatory matter (primary matter), involutionary matter (secondary matter), and evolutionary matter (tertiary and quaternary matter). Involvatory matter lacks consciousness, involutionary matter possesses actualized passive consciousness, and evolutionary matter has active consciousness.
            >
            > The primary matter of the emotional world acts as a blind force. The secondary matter of the emotional world makes conception, emotion, imagination possible, with a rational content that varies according to the percentage of mental atoms in emotional molecules and the percentages of the molecular kinds in the emotional envelope.
            >
            > All involutionary matter (atoms and molecules) has passive consciousness. When man "thinks", his imagination shapes elementals in emotional matter, emotional material forms, live emotional beings with activated emotional consciousness, corresponding to consciousness in that thought which formed them. The lifetime of these beings depends on the degree of the emotional energy that produced them. As a rule this lasts for a minute or so, whereupon the form dissolves and the emotional molecules return to their original states.
            > It is involutionary matter, with its delusive life-forms, that men take for permanent reality and that is the ground and cause of the illusions of mankind.
            >
            > As a term of world 48 the "emotional world" is to be preferred to the usual, the "astral world", since the emotional forms largely composing that world are shaped by human emotional consciousness.
            >
            > A man with a sufficiently strong imagination studies a legend of a saint and enters into the life of that saint. So he unconsciously constructs such a saint in the emotional world and will meet him when he has "passed on"."
            >
            > page 7 The Way of Man by Henry T. Laurency
            >
            >
            >
            > "In the emotional world there are live replicas of all beings that men "worship". All historical personages are found there in live emotional replicas, which the ignorant take for genuine. Being robots, they say what you know they said in the physical world. The majority of true believers have, under the influence of religious, spiritualist, yogic, etc. fictitious systems, unwittingly shaped a "divine form" or a "master" or a "guide" in the emotional world; generally a new form in each incarnation. In many cases, these emotional forms have been taken over by people in the emotional world who think they are able to help in this way."
            >
            > page 27 The Way of Man by Henry T. Laurency
            >
            >
            >
            > "The greatest perplexing factor, however, is the fact that the emotional world is the particular world of desires. Everything emotional, all desires and expectations (also unconscious ones) immediately assume concrete forms in emotional matter. It is unavoidable that the clairvoyant takes those emotional forms for enduring reality. In the emotional world the religious see their gods, masters, spiritual guides. In that world you have all your preconceived opinions confirmed. For you see that they are realities, and your belief in them is even more fixated."
            >
            > page 18 The Explanation by Lars Adelskogh
            >



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