Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Why Don't ECKists See the Truth?
- I also thank you non eckester. Your contributions are invaluable to my learning and growth. I feel most fortunate indeed to have the insights of all of you.To Russ: I found your mentioning living in a communial situation very interesting. I would so like to hear more if you can share it.In closing, I would like you all to know that I feel blessed by being a part of this site and having the opportunity to see more of the hearts and minds of all of you as we discuss our experiences in eckankar.Each and every one of you shows true beauty and wisdom, much more evident than that of devout eckist. So my brothers and sisters, if we failed to fit into the eckankar scheme it must mean we had grown past it's boundaries.Bless you all as you have blessed me with your knowledge.
--- On Wed, 8/8/12, Russ Rodnick <russrodnick@...> wrote:
From: Russ Rodnick <russrodnick@...>
Subject: Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Why Don't ECKists See the Truth?
To: "EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com" <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, August 8, 2012, 1:29 AMI was living in a commune type environment for 10 years and after I left that I felt a void inside that I wanted to fill with an active spiritual path. Eckankar fit the bill. At the time I was really into magical thinking, dreams as a doorway to invisible worlds and the mythology of the superman. I couldn't believe in the normal, ordinary as being all there was. Now, however I feel that everyone who is 'doing' eckankar are believers. but not in themselves, as they really are, but in a 'thing' outside themselves. Courage isn't something born in the heart of those who follow blindly evading the 500 pound elephant in the room, in favor of courting the Darshan and being lifted into the higher planes. I think the experiences people are looking for are just inside the door. We don't have to be led to ourselves do we? just be it, create the flow and it will be your reality.RussFrom: Non <eckchains@...>
Sent: Monday, August 6, 2012 11:14 PM
Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Why Don't ECKists See the Truth?Thanks Janice and Prometheus for your comments and empathy. I think some of us are more sensitive, while others are more resilient, and of course there are other factors that have to do with periods of transition where all of us may be more vulnerable to getting dragged into a destructive cult.
It is true that coming from a religious upbringing that relies on "faith" that the initial attraction of an eckankar like cult seems to offer proof through experience. Yet, as has been pointed out many times here, that if the lame living eck master/mahanta is so omnipotent, omnipresent, and all knowing etc. then why use HI spies and snail mail to watch over his flock. Experience is subjective and delusion is ripe for those who are told what their experience is supposed to be. Here's an experiment. Think of a certain car, and for that day you will see that kind of car every where you drive.
A previous post with a quote from the Dahlia Lama that their philosophy was simply kindness really speaks to me. If there is one thing I am beginning to learn, it is that coming back down to earth being is the basis for anything else we may discover spiritually or even psychologically. Tis a Gift to be Simple is a great little song.
non eckster ; )
--- In mailto:EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous%40yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
> Re: Why Don't ECKists See the Truth?
Thanks again for the insights.
I think I'll make a few comments
of my own.
Actually, and unfortunately, I did join eckankar long enough to get a few years
of discourses and attended some classes, read all the current books and
articles. A lot of it was paid for by my brother. He got me in a car once acting
like we were just going for a drive in the country and ended up parking at some
place in the middle of nowhere to see Darwin Gross give a talk and so on. It was
weird and a real mind screw. Fortunately, I was in college at some point and of
course could not adhere to the not reading other books and to memorizing each
discourse. I even asked a professor of a class on comparative religion what he
thought. I was so brain washed that I could not head his suggestion that it was
just a mishmash of a made up mysticism/religion. At one point, I seriously
thought about sending President Nixon a letter telling him about eckankar,
thinking that this would set him on the right path to the godhead, blah,
Ultimately, I asked way too many questions at eck meetings that people started
getting pissed at me. Of course I took it to mean that there must be something
wrong with me for having doubts. I did have a tendency for lucid dreaming
already. But there were so many other types of cults at that time that I became
very confused by some of the experiences I would have and seeking a therapist
seemed to be out of the question. Cults make you feel so nuts that you feel like
there is no one to talk to. It has taken me years to come to terms with all of
that and the difficulty is unfortunately having to deal with a family member who
is still in the cult and sees you as a threat to their idiotic authoritarian
beliefs as an eck drone. eckists see all others as eckists who just don't know
it yet, and if you actually reject it, well then you are just a conscious agent
of kal, right?
ME: It's true that they always
reflect the blame for your
questions back at you in order
to control and manipulate you.
Klemp never takes responsibility
for anything that happens within
Eckankar or within chelas' lives.
Yet, EKies will pray to him via
asking the Mahanta (HK's alter
ego) for parking spaces and
for answers to their questions,
or for job decisions and for
health & prosperity. He's supposed
to be taking care of his H.I.s
but it doesn't happen anymore
for Ekists than it does for
Christians... actually "miracles"
happen less for ECKists than
for Christians. Google and
compare the testimonials!
I found some good stuff on this site that has some of Margaret Singer's writings
on cults of all kinds and recovery.
noneckster ; )
Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
It is a shame your brother would be abusive toward you because you didn't want
eckankar. I guess they think the more people they can convince, then the more
right they can feel about believing. It always seemed to me that they only
abused lower members who didn't bow down and worship them as their superiors.
ME: It's that way with all religions.
The more the merrier... not! Yes,
the more people believing the same
lies and conforming to the same rules
and laws is proof, for many, that the
religion is valid and true. How can
so many intelligent people be fooled
an be wrong?
I don't blame you for resenting it. It is uncalled for from any religious
sect. I always disliked it when Christians would shovel out their beliefs like
they couldn't accept anything but their own point of view. Tell your brother
to follow the example of his beloved leader and check himself into a mental
institution. Give him material that debunks his eckankar. Maybe eckankar is
driving some people nuts if they need to get aggressive about it. If he is
that forceful about it, I would worry about his mental state. Maybe you should
suggest he gets some counselling since he can't exercise reasonable control
about his beliefs.
How they justify the lies that Paul and others told is by saying it was
necessary to get eckankar established. These are things I was told as a new
eckist by older eckist. They know you are going to hear about the lies.
But if you are told another version by eckist first, you are more likely to
ignore anyone who tries to point out the lies. It is drummed into you that
eckankar has to be protected from those who just don't understand how great it
ME: One becomes focused upon
how to explain questions away
without considering the premise
that those uniform explanations
are inaccurate and are designed
to be intentionally misleading.
I think you do become numb about what others say about eckankar when you are
in. There's a subtle suggestion that eckankar is always under attack by non
believers. I never heard anyone suggest aggression because of it but it was
suggested that caution was needed when discussing eckankar with outsiders.
What I got was that you don't talk about the org but it was okay to talk about
what the teachings did for you in your own life.
ME: Well, if you've ever been in an
ECK booth at a secular event that
was Not a Psychic Fair or a Body,
Mind, Spirit Expo or a New Age
event you might have a different
experience. I have. Think about
a 2 1/2 week State Fair with about
750,000 in attendance. Or, how
about an EK Booth at a street fair
across from a major university.
Anyway, we did come under verbal
attack from time-to-time. Of course
we really didn't care if they joined
or not... that was their karma...
we did our part by being there
if nothing else. That reminds me.
Remember how we were told that
when we stir up deep seated truth
that if will affect people negatively
because they can't handle it. The
same goes for what we're saying,
here, about Eckankar. The Truth
is being stirred up and ECkists
can't handle it and that's what
upsets them. Gotta Go... later!
Besides, you only learn the truth about eckankar in degrees. Newbies aren't
told how the whole thing works. They count on you getting hooked on the
written works of eckankar before you learn the truth about how things really
I take it you never were an eckist and it seems you want to understand how
they can keep holding on to something based on lies. I think it is because
like with all spiritual teachings there is enough truth in what they read that
they think it is worth while. Paul compiled a lot of material that he gathered
from various sources. There is some good stuff there while there is also a lot
of contradictions. Some don't care that it was stolen material. It is like
they think Paul brought all the great teachings together for their benefit.
The biggest lie in eckankar is that eckankar is an ancient religion and instead
of Paul stealing from other religions, they believe that other religions evolved
from the ancient teachings of eckankar and only a select few can hear and see
that eckankar is the original and true path. Well, that is how it was spoon
fed to me anyway.
Now, they even advertise on TV. What a crock of crap. The great secret
teachings of eckankar being peddled on TV like just another info-mercial.
Membership must be way down. Klemp must be getting desperate. Need more
slaves to bring in more money and continue dragging in new dues paying
Are eckankar members in general getting more aggressive about increasing their
numbers? I couldn't say since I don't have any contact with any eckist. That
would be interesting to know however.
I got to have one final dig at eckankar so here goes. I remember that
supposedly, the God man klemp has the ability to control the higher and lower
so is it his fault that the whole world economy has gotten so bad? Why doesn't
something about it? Has anyone heard what the great one has to say about it?
At what point does deception become self-deception and then it becomes what is
really just an outright lie. What does it take to lie to yourself? Denial. But
denial pays a price at some point. At first there may be some discomfort or even
pain. So to deny must involve some level of numbing out, covering up, becoming
ever more deluded.
My brother was quite forceful in his attempts to get me involved in eckankar
and to be a member. He became quite nasty about it even and still is. Yes,
denial is the root of hypocrisy, an attempt to not feel the harm they do to
others and to themselves. (and then there are those who are just pathological
and do not feeling normal guilt and this does not keep them up at night or if it
does it is the fault of their victims somehow)
Truth to them is just TWISTED.
noneckster ; )