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Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Yes, Klemp Had A Hip Replacement

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  • Janice Pfeiffer
    Is it really the case that high initiates are considered karma free and if so at what level is this supposed to be true?  I never heard that one before. ...
    Message 1 of 7 , May 9, 2012
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      Is it really the case that high initiates are considered karma free and if so at what level is this supposed to be true?  I never heard that one before.

      --- On Wed, 5/9/12, prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...> wrote:

      From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Yes, Klemp Had A Hip Replacement
      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Wednesday, May 9, 2012, 4:13 AM

       
      Here's more that I found
      on the Internet via Google:

      Linda. "It was an amazing talk
      about living and giving divine
      love to all life regardless of our
      circumstances. Harold Klemp
      fell and broke his hip earlier
      this year."

      Reflections of Soul
      –Sri Harold Klemp. The Spiritual
      Leader of ECKANKAR recently
      broke his hip during a skiing
      accident. He said he remembered
      to sing... [Ted Nugent's Stranglehold.
      He was delirious!]

      Does breaking one's hip during
      a ski outing sound like it was
      related to being a "Holding
      Tank for Karma" or from being
      inattentive and lacking experience?

      Thus, if Klemp trips because
      he's not paying attention and
      stubs his toe is this, too, due
      to the Karma of his chelas?

      BTW- If HK gets a flat tire, is
      that the fault of his chelas too?
      How much blame and guilt
      can chelas handle? Oh, one
      more thing, since H.I.s are
      karma free I'm assuming
      that Klemp is taking on the
      karma of the lower initiates
      only... right?

      Prometheus

      prometheus_wrote:
      >
      > Hello Russ and All,
      > Maybe that Karma was
      > getting too heavy and
      > his human hip couldn't
      > handle the load? Maybe
      > HK lost his balance while
      > carrying all that karma
      > down the stairs? I'm thinking
      > he set the karma down,
      > and forgot where he put
      > it, and, then, tripped over
      > it!
      >
      > Yes, Klemp fell and broke
      > his hip and needed to have
      > a replacement. Of course
      > he used the same old "Holding
      > Tank for Karma" excuse.
      >
      > I don't see why HK didn't
      > just heal himself. WWRD?
      > What Would Rebazar Do?
      > I doubt that the fake RT
      > has a fake hip. He's as
      > perfect as a lie can be
      > and is 500 years old...
      > he's been a "holding
      > tank for karma" too but
      > isn't the worst for wear
      > like Klemp! ROFLMAO!
      >
      > I'm told he was still in
      > pain at the seminar, but
      > fought through it for his
      > chelas. What's both funny
      > and sad is that he's simply
      > experiencing what his
      > followers experience, but
      > they don't use excuses.
      > It's called life! Plus, Klemp
      > has the best health care
      > money can buy!
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      >
      > Russ wrote:
      > I heard from an eck friend, the HK was in the hospital for 30 days with a broken hip. As anyone heard about this?
      >
      > I can hear the jokes this will generate. I guess his reality is a bit 'cracked'.
      >
      > but seriously folks...
      >
      >
      >
      > Prometheus wrote:
      >
      > Hello Etznab and All,
      > It is interesting that Phil
      > Morimitsu's books are
      > no longer available and
      > that Klemp doesn't permit
      > other EKists to have their
      > more profound stories
      > of experiences printed
      > since these could possibly
      > be seen as a challenge
      > to his authority.
      >
      > Some EKists think Klemp
      > should have stepped down
      > long ago and that his EMR
      > illness (circa 1990) was
      > a "nudge" by the ECK for
      > him to acknowledge. Instead,
      > HK used his illnesses to
      > create the story about
      > being a "holding tank for
      > (the) Karma" of his chelas.
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      > Etznab wrote:
      >
      > They got reports? Hmm ... then maybe I should send in a report? :)
      >
      > I could give other examples where it looks like Eckankar is interested
      > in stories from other people, including what people found by research.
      > Apparently though, the LEM. isn't going to simply look at the Eck-Vidya
      > and share answers to all of the questions people have. At the same time
      > though, it looks like people pick and choose from all the information
      > only what "THEY WANT" the facts to be and put the rest under the rug.
      >
      > If one disregards the reported facts written by Paul Twitchell
      > concerning his meetings, encounters, and relationships with Eck Masters
      > then where does it leave you? In Never Never Land with Peter Pan and
      > Tinker Bell, etc.? (Hey look! He's playing a flute!)
      >
      > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neverland
      >
      > Are "spiritual experiences", the "stories" (and the stories that people
      > send in) somehow more REAL than factual accounts which can be
      > researched and verified? Or, Are "spiritual experiences" sometimes used
      > as a label for anything a person wants to be true? Iow, does the land
      > of make believe trump the actual facts? This is what it comes down to,
      > IMO.
      >

    • prometheus_973
      Hello Janice, Yes, upon reaching the 5th initiation one, supposedly, becomes free of Karma... except for daily Karma since consciousness, they claim, is won
      Message 2 of 7 , May 9, 2012
      • 0 Attachment
        Hello Janice,
        Yes, upon reaching
        the 5th initiation one,
        supposedly, becomes
        free of Karma... except
        for daily Karma since
        consciousness, they
        claim, is won and/or
        lost moment-to-moment.
        Of course, the Catch-22,
        for Klemp, is that this
        same law of consciousness
        applies to himself as
        well.

        Anyway, that's the EK dogma.
        Of course, one really has to
        be a 6th before they can claim
        to have completed all of the
        requirements of the 5th Plane
        since the outer initiation is
        the "final" stage.

        Prometheus

        Janice wrote:
        Is it really the case that
        high initiates are considered
        karma free and if so at what
        level is this supposed to be
        true? I never heard that one
        before.


        Prometheus wrote:

        Here's more that I found
        on the Internet via Google:

        Linda. "It was an amazing talk
        about living and giving divine
        love to all life regardless of our
        circumstances. Harold Klemp
        fell and broke his hip earlier
        this year."

        Reflections of Soul
        â€"Sri Harold Klemp. The Spiritual
        Leader of ECKANKAR recently
        broke his hip during a skiing
        accident. He said he remembered
        to sing... [Ted Nugent's Stranglehold.
        He was delirious!]

        Does breaking one's hip during
        a ski outing sound like it was
        related to being a "Holding
        Tank for Karma" or from being
        inattentive and lacking experience?

        Thus, if Klemp trips because
        he's not paying attention and
        stubs his toe is this, too, due
        to the Karma of his chelas?

        BTW- If HK gets a flat tire, is
        that the fault of his chelas too?
        How much blame and guilt
        can chelas handle? Oh, one
        more thing, since H.I.s are
        karma free I'm assuming
        that Klemp is taking on the
        karma of the lower initiates
        only... right?

        Prometheus

        prometheus_wrote:
        >
        > Hello Russ and All,
        > Maybe that Karma was
        > getting too heavy and
        > his human hip couldn't
        > handle the load? Maybe
        > HK lost his balance while
        > carrying all that karma
        > down the stairs? I'm thinking
        > he set the karma down,
        > and forgot where he put
        > it, and, then, tripped over
        > it!
        >
        > Yes, Klemp fell and broke
        > his hip and needed to have
        > a replacement. Of course
        > he used the same old "Holding
        > Tank for Karma" excuse.
        >
        > I don't see why HK didn't
        > just heal himself. WWRD?
        > What Would Rebazar Do?
        > I doubt that the fake RT
        > has a fake hip. He's as
        > perfect as a lie can be
        > and is 500 years old...
        > he's been a "holding
        > tank for karma" too but
        > isn't the worst for wear
        > like Klemp! ROFLMAO!
        >
        > I'm told he was still in
        > pain at the seminar, but
        > fought through it for his
        > chelas. What's both funny
        > and sad is that he's simply
        > experiencing what his
        > followers experience, but
        > they don't use excuses.
        > It's called life! Plus, Klemp
        > has the best health care
        > money can buy!
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
        >
        > Russ wrote:
        > I heard from an eck friend, the HK was in the hospital for 30 days with a broken hip. As anyone heard about this?
        >
        > I can hear the jokes this will generate. I guess his reality is a bit 'cracked'.
        >
        > but seriously folks...
        >
        >
        >
        > Prometheus wrote:
        >
        > Hello Etznab and All,
        > It is interesting that Phil
        > Morimitsu's books are
        > no longer available and
        > that Klemp doesn't permit
        > other EKists to have their
        > more profound stories
        > of experiences printed
        > since these could possibly
        > be seen as a challenge
        > to his authority.
        >
        > Some EKists think Klemp
        > should have stepped down
        > long ago and that his EMR
        > illness (circa 1990) was
        > a "nudge" by the ECK for
        > him to acknowledge. Instead,
        > HK used his illnesses to
        > create the story about
        > being a "holding tank for
        > (the) Karma" of his chelas.
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
        > Etznab wrote:
        >
        > They got reports? Hmm ... then maybe I should send in a report? :)
        >
        > I could give other examples where it looks like Eckankar is interested
        > in stories from other people, including what people found by research.
        > Apparently though, the LEM. isn't going to simply look at the Eck-Vidya
        > and share answers to all of the questions people have. At the same time
        > though, it looks like people pick and choose from all the information
        > only what "THEY WANT" the facts to be and put the rest under the rug.
        >
        > If one disregards the reported facts written by Paul Twitchell
        > concerning his meetings, encounters, and relationships with Eck Masters
        > then where does it leave you? In Never Never Land with Peter Pan and
        > Tinker Bell, etc.? (Hey look! He's playing a flute!)
        >
        > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neverland
        >
        > Are "spiritual experiences", the "stories" (and the stories that people
        > send in) somehow more REAL than factual accounts which can be
        > researched and verified? Or, Are "spiritual experiences" sometimes used
        > as a label for anything a person wants to be true? Iow, does the land
        > of make believe trump the actual facts? This is what it comes down to,
        > IMO.
      • Janice Pfeiffer
        So, supposedly karma from past lives has been dealt with but a person can slip and cause more karma in the present or future and there fore needs a master to
        Message 3 of 7 , May 9, 2012
        • 0 Attachment
          So, supposedly karma from past lives has been dealt with but a person can slip and cause more karma in the present or future and there fore needs a master to lead them to be assured that they don't.  So then, it must be all those low life chelas below the big five initiation causing klemps over load and those are the ones to blame for his accident and hip replacement.  Seems to me  klemp while excusing his actions, saying it is due to all that heavy karma he is carrying for those unappreciative chelas, he is really laying a heavy guilt trip on those people who have done nothing but pay his bills.  What a crock of crap.  Thank you for clearing that up for me.  It helps explain all the arrogance I saw in higher initiates.

          --- On Wed, 5/9/12, prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...> wrote:

          From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
          Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Yes, Klemp Had A Hip Replacement
          To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Wednesday, May 9, 2012, 6:04 PM

           
          Hello Janice,
          Yes, upon reaching
          the 5th initiation one,
          supposedly, becomes
          free of Karma... except
          for daily Karma since
          consciousness, they
          claim, is won and/or
          lost moment-to-moment.
          Of course, the Catch-22,
          for Klemp, is that this
          same law of consciousness
          applies to himself as
          well.

          Anyway, that's the EK dogma.
          Of course, one really has to
          be a 6th before they can claim
          to have completed all of the
          requirements of the 5th Plane
          since the outer initiation is
          the "final" stage.

          Prometheus

          Janice wrote:
          Is it really the case that
          high initiates are considered
          karma free and if so at what
          level is this supposed to be
          true? I never heard that one
          before.

          Prometheus wrote:

          Here's more that I found
          on the Internet via Google:

          Linda. "It was an amazing talk
          about living and giving divine
          love to all life regardless of our
          circumstances. Harold Klemp
          fell and broke his hip earlier
          this year."

          Reflections of Soul
          â€"Sri Harold Klemp. The Spiritual
          Leader of ECKANKAR recently
          broke his hip during a skiing
          accident. He said he remembered
          to sing... [Ted Nugent's Stranglehold.
          He was delirious!]

          Does breaking one's hip during
          a ski outing sound like it was
          related to being a "Holding
          Tank for Karma" or from being
          inattentive and lacking experience?

          Thus, if Klemp trips because
          he's not paying attention and
          stubs his toe is this, too, due
          to the Karma of his chelas?

          BTW- If HK gets a flat tire, is
          that the fault of his chelas too?
          How much blame and guilt
          can chelas handle? Oh, one
          more thing, since H.I.s are
          karma free I'm assuming
          that Klemp is taking on the
          karma of the lower initiates
          only... right?

          Prometheus

          prometheus_wrote:
          >
          > Hello Russ and All,
          > Maybe that Karma was
          > getting too heavy and
          > his human hip couldn't
          > handle the load? Maybe
          > HK lost his balance while
          > carrying all that karma
          > down the stairs? I'm thinking
          > he set the karma down,
          > and forgot where he put
          > it, and, then, tripped over
          > it!
          >
          > Yes, Klemp fell and broke
          > his hip and needed to have
          > a replacement. Of course
          > he used the same old "Holding
          > Tank for Karma" excuse.
          >
          > I don't see why HK didn't
          > just heal himself. WWRD?
          > What Would Rebazar Do?
          > I doubt that the fake RT
          > has a fake hip. He's as
          > perfect as a lie can be
          > and is 500 years old...
          > he's been a "holding
          > tank for karma" too but
          > isn't the worst for wear
          > like Klemp! ROFLMAO!
          >
          > I'm told he was still in
          > pain at the seminar, but
          > fought through it for his
          > chelas. What's both funny
          > and sad is that he's simply
          > experiencing what his
          > followers experience, but
          > they don't use excuses.
          > It's called life! Plus, Klemp
          > has the best health care
          > money can buy!
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
          >
          > Russ wrote:
          > I heard from an eck friend, the HK was in the hospital for 30 days with a broken hip. As anyone heard about this?
          >
          > I can hear the jokes this will generate. I guess his reality is a bit 'cracked'.
          >
          > but seriously folks...
          >
          >
          >
          > Prometheus wrote:
          >
          > Hello Etznab and All,
          > It is interesting that Phil
          > Morimitsu's books are
          > no longer available and
          > that Klemp doesn't permit
          > other EKists to have their
          > more profound stories
          > of experiences printed
          > since these could possibly
          > be seen as a challenge
          > to his authority.
          >
          > Some EKists think Klemp
          > should have stepped down
          > long ago and that his EMR
          > illness (circa 1990) was
          > a "nudge" by the ECK for
          > him to acknowledge. Instead,
          > HK used his illnesses to
          > create the story about
          > being a "holding tank for
          > (the) Karma" of his chelas.
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
          > Etznab wrote:
          >
          > They got reports? Hmm ... then maybe I should send in a report? :)
          >
          > I could give other examples where it looks like Eckankar is interested
          > in stories from other people, including what people found by research.
          > Apparently though, the LEM. isn't going to simply look at the Eck-Vidya
          > and share answers to all of the questions people have. At the same time
          > though, it looks like people pick and choose from all the information
          > only what "THEY WANT" the facts to be and put the rest under the rug.
          >
          > If one disregards the reported facts written by Paul Twitchell
          > concerning his meetings, encounters, and relationships with Eck Masters
          > then where does it leave you? In Never Never Land with Peter Pan and
          > Tinker Bell, etc.? (Hey look! He's playing a flute!)
          >
          > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neverland
          >
          > Are "spiritual experiences", the "stories" (and the stories that people
          > send in) somehow more REAL than factual accounts which can be
          > researched and verified? Or, Are "spiritual experiences" sometimes used
          > as a label for anything a person wants to be true? Iow, does the land
          > of make believe trump the actual facts? This is what it comes down to,
          > IMO.

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