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Klemp Picks and Chooses the "Best" Stories (that support EK dogma)

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello Etznab and All, It is interesting that Phil Morimitsu s books are no longer available and that Klemp doesn t permit other EKists to have their more
    Message 1 of 7 , May 8, 2012
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      Hello Etznab and All,
      It is interesting that Phil
      Morimitsu's books are
      no longer available and
      that Klemp doesn't permit
      other EKists to have their
      more profound stories
      of experiences printed
      since these could possibly
      be seen as a challenge
      to his authority.

      Some EKists think Klemp
      should have stepped down
      long ago and that his EMR
      illness (circa 1990) was
      a "nudge" by the ECK for
      him to acknowledge. Instead,
      HK used his illnesses to
      create the story about
      being a "holding tank for
      (the) Karma" of his chelas.

      Prometheus

      Etznab wrote:

      They got reports? Hmm ... then maybe I should send in a report? :)

      I could give other examples where it looks like Eckankar is interested
      in stories from other people, including what people found by research.
      Apparently though, the LEM. isn't going to simply look at the Eck-Vidya
      and share answers to all of the questions people have. At the same time
      though, it looks like people pick and choose from all the information
      only what "THEY WANT" the facts to be and put the rest under the rug.

      If one disregards the reported facts written by Paul Twitchell
      concerning his meetings, encounters, and relationships with Eck Masters
      then where does it leave you? In Never Never Land with Peter Pan and
      Tinker Bell, etc.? (Hey look! He's playing a flute!)

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neverland

      Are "spiritual experiences", the "stories" (and the stories that people
      send in) somehow more REAL than factual accounts which can be
      researched and verified? Or, Are "spiritual experiences" sometimes used
      as a label for anything a person wants to be true? Iow, does the land
      of make believe trump the actual facts? This is what it comes down to,
      IMO.
    • Russ Rodnick
      I heard from an eck friend, the HK was in the hospital for 30 days with a broken hip. As anyone heard about this?   I can hear the jokes this will generate. I
      Message 2 of 7 , May 8, 2012
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        I heard from an eck friend, the HK was in the hospital for 30 days with a broken hip. As anyone heard about this?
         
        I can hear the jokes this will generate. I guess his reality is a bit 'cracked'.
         
        but seriously folks...

        From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
        To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2012 12:05 PM
        Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Klemp Picks and Chooses the "Best" Stories (that support EK dogma)

         
        Hello Etznab and All,
        It is interesting that Phil
        Morimitsu's books are
        no longer available and
        that Klemp doesn't permit
        other EKists to have their
        more profound stories
        of experiences printed
        since these could possibly
        be seen as a challenge
        to his authority.

        Some EKists think Klemp
        should have stepped down
        long ago and that his EMR
        illness (circa 1990) was
        a "nudge" by the ECK for
        him to acknowledge. Instead,
        HK used his illnesses to
        create the story about
        being a "holding tank for
        (the) Karma" of his chelas.

        Prometheus

        Etznab wrote:

        They got reports? Hmm ... then maybe I should send in a report? :)

        I could give other examples where it looks like Eckankar is interested
        in stories from other people, including what people found by research.
        Apparently though, the LEM. isn't going to simply look at the Eck-Vidya
        and share answers to all of the questions people have. At the same time
        though, it looks like people pick and choose from all the information
        only what "THEY WANT" the facts to be and put the rest under the rug.

        If one disregards the reported facts written by Paul Twitchell
        concerning his meetings, encounters, and relationships with Eck Masters
        then where does it leave you? In Never Never Land with Peter Pan and
        Tinker Bell, etc.? (Hey look! He's playing a flute!)

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neverland

        Are "spiritual experiences", the "stories" (and the stories that people
        send in) somehow more REAL than factual accounts which can be
        researched and verified? Or, Are "spiritual experiences" sometimes used
        as a label for anything a person wants to be true? Iow, does the land
        of make believe trump the actual facts? This is what it comes down to,
        IMO.



      • prometheus_973
        Hello Russ and All, Maybe that Karma was getting too heavy and his human hip couldn t handle the load? Maybe HK lost his balance while carrying all that karma
        Message 3 of 7 , May 8, 2012
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          Hello Russ and All,
          Maybe that Karma was
          getting too heavy and
          his human hip couldn't
          handle the load? Maybe
          HK lost his balance while
          carrying all that karma
          down the stairs? I'm thinking
          he set the karma down,
          and forgot where he put
          it, and, then, tripped over
          it!

          Yes, Klemp fell and broke
          his hip and needed to have
          a replacement. Of course
          he used the same old "Holding
          Tank for Karma" excuse.

          I don't see why HK didn't
          just heal himself. WWRD?
          What Would Rebazar Do?
          I doubt that the fake RT
          has a fake hip. He's as
          perfect as a lie can be
          and is 500 years old...
          he's been a "holding
          tank for karma" too but
          isn't the worst for wear
          like Klemp! ROFLMAO!

          I'm told he was still in
          pain at the seminar, but
          fought through it for his
          chelas. What's both funny
          and sad is that he's simply
          experiencing what his
          followers experience, but
          they don't use excuses.
          It's called life! Plus, Klemp
          has the best health care
          money can buy!

          Prometheus


          Russ wrote:
          I heard from an eck friend, the HK was in the hospital for 30 days with a broken hip. As anyone heard about this?

          I can hear the jokes this will generate. I guess his reality is a bit 'cracked'.

          but seriously folks...



          Prometheus wrote:

          Hello Etznab and All,
          It is interesting that Phil
          Morimitsu's books are
          no longer available and
          that Klemp doesn't permit
          other EKists to have their
          more profound stories
          of experiences printed
          since these could possibly
          be seen as a challenge
          to his authority.

          Some EKists think Klemp
          should have stepped down
          long ago and that his EMR
          illness (circa 1990) was
          a "nudge" by the ECK for
          him to acknowledge. Instead,
          HK used his illnesses to
          create the story about
          being a "holding tank for
          (the) Karma" of his chelas.

          Prometheus

          Etznab wrote:

          They got reports? Hmm ... then maybe I should send in a report? :)

          I could give other examples where it looks like Eckankar is interested
          in stories from other people, including what people found by research.
          Apparently though, the LEM. isn't going to simply look at the Eck-Vidya
          and share answers to all of the questions people have. At the same time
          though, it looks like people pick and choose from all the information
          only what "THEY WANT" the facts to be and put the rest under the rug.

          If one disregards the reported facts written by Paul Twitchell
          concerning his meetings, encounters, and relationships with Eck Masters
          then where does it leave you? In Never Never Land with Peter Pan and
          Tinker Bell, etc.? (Hey look! He's playing a flute!)

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neverland

          Are "spiritual experiences", the "stories" (and the stories that people
          send in) somehow more REAL than factual accounts which can be
          researched and verified? Or, Are "spiritual experiences" sometimes used
          as a label for anything a person wants to be true? Iow, does the land
          of make believe trump the actual facts? This is what it comes down to,
          IMO.
        • prometheus_973
          Here s more that I found on the Internet via Google: Linda. It was an amazing talk about living and giving divine love to all life regardless of our
          Message 4 of 7 , May 8, 2012
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            Here's more that I found
            on the Internet via Google:

            Linda. "It was an amazing talk
            about living and giving divine
            love to all life regardless of our
            circumstances. Harold Klemp
            fell and broke his hip earlier
            this year."

            Reflections of Soul
            –Sri Harold Klemp. The Spiritual
            Leader of ECKANKAR recently
            broke his hip during a skiing
            accident. He said he remembered
            to sing... [Ted Nugent's Stranglehold.
            He was delirious!]

            Does breaking one's hip during
            a ski outing sound like it was
            related to being a "Holding
            Tank for Karma" or from being
            inattentive and lacking experience?

            Thus, if Klemp trips because
            he's not paying attention and
            stubs his toe is this, too, due
            to the Karma of his chelas?

            BTW- If HK gets a flat tire, is
            that the fault of his chelas too?
            How much blame and guilt
            can chelas handle? Oh, one
            more thing, since H.I.s are
            karma free I'm assuming
            that Klemp is taking on the
            karma of the lower initiates
            only... right?

            Prometheus



            prometheus_wrote:
            >
            > Hello Russ and All,
            > Maybe that Karma was
            > getting too heavy and
            > his human hip couldn't
            > handle the load? Maybe
            > HK lost his balance while
            > carrying all that karma
            > down the stairs? I'm thinking
            > he set the karma down,
            > and forgot where he put
            > it, and, then, tripped over
            > it!
            >
            > Yes, Klemp fell and broke
            > his hip and needed to have
            > a replacement. Of course
            > he used the same old "Holding
            > Tank for Karma" excuse.
            >
            > I don't see why HK didn't
            > just heal himself. WWRD?
            > What Would Rebazar Do?
            > I doubt that the fake RT
            > has a fake hip. He's as
            > perfect as a lie can be
            > and is 500 years old...
            > he's been a "holding
            > tank for karma" too but
            > isn't the worst for wear
            > like Klemp! ROFLMAO!
            >
            > I'm told he was still in
            > pain at the seminar, but
            > fought through it for his
            > chelas. What's both funny
            > and sad is that he's simply
            > experiencing what his
            > followers experience, but
            > they don't use excuses.
            > It's called life! Plus, Klemp
            > has the best health care
            > money can buy!
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            >
            > Russ wrote:
            > I heard from an eck friend, the HK was in the hospital for 30 days with a broken hip. As anyone heard about this?
            >
            > I can hear the jokes this will generate. I guess his reality is a bit 'cracked'.
            >
            > but seriously folks...
            >
            >
            >
            > Prometheus wrote:
            >
            > Hello Etznab and All,
            > It is interesting that Phil
            > Morimitsu's books are
            > no longer available and
            > that Klemp doesn't permit
            > other EKists to have their
            > more profound stories
            > of experiences printed
            > since these could possibly
            > be seen as a challenge
            > to his authority.
            >
            > Some EKists think Klemp
            > should have stepped down
            > long ago and that his EMR
            > illness (circa 1990) was
            > a "nudge" by the ECK for
            > him to acknowledge. Instead,
            > HK used his illnesses to
            > create the story about
            > being a "holding tank for
            > (the) Karma" of his chelas.
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            > Etznab wrote:
            >
            > They got reports? Hmm ... then maybe I should send in a report? :)
            >
            > I could give other examples where it looks like Eckankar is interested
            > in stories from other people, including what people found by research.
            > Apparently though, the LEM. isn't going to simply look at the Eck-Vidya
            > and share answers to all of the questions people have. At the same time
            > though, it looks like people pick and choose from all the information
            > only what "THEY WANT" the facts to be and put the rest under the rug.
            >
            > If one disregards the reported facts written by Paul Twitchell
            > concerning his meetings, encounters, and relationships with Eck Masters
            > then where does it leave you? In Never Never Land with Peter Pan and
            > Tinker Bell, etc.? (Hey look! He's playing a flute!)
            >
            > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neverland
            >
            > Are "spiritual experiences", the "stories" (and the stories that people
            > send in) somehow more REAL than factual accounts which can be
            > researched and verified? Or, Are "spiritual experiences" sometimes used
            > as a label for anything a person wants to be true? Iow, does the land
            > of make believe trump the actual facts? This is what it comes down to,
            > IMO.
            >
          • Janice Pfeiffer
            Is it really the case that high initiates are considered karma free and if so at what level is this supposed to be true?  I never heard that one before. ...
            Message 5 of 7 , May 9, 2012
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              Is it really the case that high initiates are considered karma free and if so at what level is this supposed to be true?  I never heard that one before.

              --- On Wed, 5/9/12, prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...> wrote:

              From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
              Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Yes, Klemp Had A Hip Replacement
              To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Wednesday, May 9, 2012, 4:13 AM

               
              Here's more that I found
              on the Internet via Google:

              Linda. "It was an amazing talk
              about living and giving divine
              love to all life regardless of our
              circumstances. Harold Klemp
              fell and broke his hip earlier
              this year."

              Reflections of Soul
              –Sri Harold Klemp. The Spiritual
              Leader of ECKANKAR recently
              broke his hip during a skiing
              accident. He said he remembered
              to sing... [Ted Nugent's Stranglehold.
              He was delirious!]

              Does breaking one's hip during
              a ski outing sound like it was
              related to being a "Holding
              Tank for Karma" or from being
              inattentive and lacking experience?

              Thus, if Klemp trips because
              he's not paying attention and
              stubs his toe is this, too, due
              to the Karma of his chelas?

              BTW- If HK gets a flat tire, is
              that the fault of his chelas too?
              How much blame and guilt
              can chelas handle? Oh, one
              more thing, since H.I.s are
              karma free I'm assuming
              that Klemp is taking on the
              karma of the lower initiates
              only... right?

              Prometheus

              prometheus_wrote:
              >
              > Hello Russ and All,
              > Maybe that Karma was
              > getting too heavy and
              > his human hip couldn't
              > handle the load? Maybe
              > HK lost his balance while
              > carrying all that karma
              > down the stairs? I'm thinking
              > he set the karma down,
              > and forgot where he put
              > it, and, then, tripped over
              > it!
              >
              > Yes, Klemp fell and broke
              > his hip and needed to have
              > a replacement. Of course
              > he used the same old "Holding
              > Tank for Karma" excuse.
              >
              > I don't see why HK didn't
              > just heal himself. WWRD?
              > What Would Rebazar Do?
              > I doubt that the fake RT
              > has a fake hip. He's as
              > perfect as a lie can be
              > and is 500 years old...
              > he's been a "holding
              > tank for karma" too but
              > isn't the worst for wear
              > like Klemp! ROFLMAO!
              >
              > I'm told he was still in
              > pain at the seminar, but
              > fought through it for his
              > chelas. What's both funny
              > and sad is that he's simply
              > experiencing what his
              > followers experience, but
              > they don't use excuses.
              > It's called life! Plus, Klemp
              > has the best health care
              > money can buy!
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              >
              > Russ wrote:
              > I heard from an eck friend, the HK was in the hospital for 30 days with a broken hip. As anyone heard about this?
              >
              > I can hear the jokes this will generate. I guess his reality is a bit 'cracked'.
              >
              > but seriously folks...
              >
              >
              >
              > Prometheus wrote:
              >
              > Hello Etznab and All,
              > It is interesting that Phil
              > Morimitsu's books are
              > no longer available and
              > that Klemp doesn't permit
              > other EKists to have their
              > more profound stories
              > of experiences printed
              > since these could possibly
              > be seen as a challenge
              > to his authority.
              >
              > Some EKists think Klemp
              > should have stepped down
              > long ago and that his EMR
              > illness (circa 1990) was
              > a "nudge" by the ECK for
              > him to acknowledge. Instead,
              > HK used his illnesses to
              > create the story about
              > being a "holding tank for
              > (the) Karma" of his chelas.
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              > Etznab wrote:
              >
              > They got reports? Hmm ... then maybe I should send in a report? :)
              >
              > I could give other examples where it looks like Eckankar is interested
              > in stories from other people, including what people found by research.
              > Apparently though, the LEM. isn't going to simply look at the Eck-Vidya
              > and share answers to all of the questions people have. At the same time
              > though, it looks like people pick and choose from all the information
              > only what "THEY WANT" the facts to be and put the rest under the rug.
              >
              > If one disregards the reported facts written by Paul Twitchell
              > concerning his meetings, encounters, and relationships with Eck Masters
              > then where does it leave you? In Never Never Land with Peter Pan and
              > Tinker Bell, etc.? (Hey look! He's playing a flute!)
              >
              > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neverland
              >
              > Are "spiritual experiences", the "stories" (and the stories that people
              > send in) somehow more REAL than factual accounts which can be
              > researched and verified? Or, Are "spiritual experiences" sometimes used
              > as a label for anything a person wants to be true? Iow, does the land
              > of make believe trump the actual facts? This is what it comes down to,
              > IMO.
              >

            • prometheus_973
              Hello Janice, Yes, upon reaching the 5th initiation one, supposedly, becomes free of Karma... except for daily Karma since consciousness, they claim, is won
              Message 6 of 7 , May 9, 2012
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                Hello Janice,
                Yes, upon reaching
                the 5th initiation one,
                supposedly, becomes
                free of Karma... except
                for daily Karma since
                consciousness, they
                claim, is won and/or
                lost moment-to-moment.
                Of course, the Catch-22,
                for Klemp, is that this
                same law of consciousness
                applies to himself as
                well.

                Anyway, that's the EK dogma.
                Of course, one really has to
                be a 6th before they can claim
                to have completed all of the
                requirements of the 5th Plane
                since the outer initiation is
                the "final" stage.

                Prometheus

                Janice wrote:
                Is it really the case that
                high initiates are considered
                karma free and if so at what
                level is this supposed to be
                true? I never heard that one
                before.


                Prometheus wrote:

                Here's more that I found
                on the Internet via Google:

                Linda. "It was an amazing talk
                about living and giving divine
                love to all life regardless of our
                circumstances. Harold Klemp
                fell and broke his hip earlier
                this year."

                Reflections of Soul
                â€"Sri Harold Klemp. The Spiritual
                Leader of ECKANKAR recently
                broke his hip during a skiing
                accident. He said he remembered
                to sing... [Ted Nugent's Stranglehold.
                He was delirious!]

                Does breaking one's hip during
                a ski outing sound like it was
                related to being a "Holding
                Tank for Karma" or from being
                inattentive and lacking experience?

                Thus, if Klemp trips because
                he's not paying attention and
                stubs his toe is this, too, due
                to the Karma of his chelas?

                BTW- If HK gets a flat tire, is
                that the fault of his chelas too?
                How much blame and guilt
                can chelas handle? Oh, one
                more thing, since H.I.s are
                karma free I'm assuming
                that Klemp is taking on the
                karma of the lower initiates
                only... right?

                Prometheus

                prometheus_wrote:
                >
                > Hello Russ and All,
                > Maybe that Karma was
                > getting too heavy and
                > his human hip couldn't
                > handle the load? Maybe
                > HK lost his balance while
                > carrying all that karma
                > down the stairs? I'm thinking
                > he set the karma down,
                > and forgot where he put
                > it, and, then, tripped over
                > it!
                >
                > Yes, Klemp fell and broke
                > his hip and needed to have
                > a replacement. Of course
                > he used the same old "Holding
                > Tank for Karma" excuse.
                >
                > I don't see why HK didn't
                > just heal himself. WWRD?
                > What Would Rebazar Do?
                > I doubt that the fake RT
                > has a fake hip. He's as
                > perfect as a lie can be
                > and is 500 years old...
                > he's been a "holding
                > tank for karma" too but
                > isn't the worst for wear
                > like Klemp! ROFLMAO!
                >
                > I'm told he was still in
                > pain at the seminar, but
                > fought through it for his
                > chelas. What's both funny
                > and sad is that he's simply
                > experiencing what his
                > followers experience, but
                > they don't use excuses.
                > It's called life! Plus, Klemp
                > has the best health care
                > money can buy!
                >
                > Prometheus
                >
                >
                > Russ wrote:
                > I heard from an eck friend, the HK was in the hospital for 30 days with a broken hip. As anyone heard about this?
                >
                > I can hear the jokes this will generate. I guess his reality is a bit 'cracked'.
                >
                > but seriously folks...
                >
                >
                >
                > Prometheus wrote:
                >
                > Hello Etznab and All,
                > It is interesting that Phil
                > Morimitsu's books are
                > no longer available and
                > that Klemp doesn't permit
                > other EKists to have their
                > more profound stories
                > of experiences printed
                > since these could possibly
                > be seen as a challenge
                > to his authority.
                >
                > Some EKists think Klemp
                > should have stepped down
                > long ago and that his EMR
                > illness (circa 1990) was
                > a "nudge" by the ECK for
                > him to acknowledge. Instead,
                > HK used his illnesses to
                > create the story about
                > being a "holding tank for
                > (the) Karma" of his chelas.
                >
                > Prometheus
                >
                > Etznab wrote:
                >
                > They got reports? Hmm ... then maybe I should send in a report? :)
                >
                > I could give other examples where it looks like Eckankar is interested
                > in stories from other people, including what people found by research.
                > Apparently though, the LEM. isn't going to simply look at the Eck-Vidya
                > and share answers to all of the questions people have. At the same time
                > though, it looks like people pick and choose from all the information
                > only what "THEY WANT" the facts to be and put the rest under the rug.
                >
                > If one disregards the reported facts written by Paul Twitchell
                > concerning his meetings, encounters, and relationships with Eck Masters
                > then where does it leave you? In Never Never Land with Peter Pan and
                > Tinker Bell, etc.? (Hey look! He's playing a flute!)
                >
                > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neverland
                >
                > Are "spiritual experiences", the "stories" (and the stories that people
                > send in) somehow more REAL than factual accounts which can be
                > researched and verified? Or, Are "spiritual experiences" sometimes used
                > as a label for anything a person wants to be true? Iow, does the land
                > of make believe trump the actual facts? This is what it comes down to,
                > IMO.
              • Janice Pfeiffer
                So, supposedly karma from past lives has been dealt with but a person can slip and cause more karma in the present or future and there fore needs a master to
                Message 7 of 7 , May 9, 2012
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                  So, supposedly karma from past lives has been dealt with but a person can slip and cause more karma in the present or future and there fore needs a master to lead them to be assured that they don't.  So then, it must be all those low life chelas below the big five initiation causing klemps over load and those are the ones to blame for his accident and hip replacement.  Seems to me  klemp while excusing his actions, saying it is due to all that heavy karma he is carrying for those unappreciative chelas, he is really laying a heavy guilt trip on those people who have done nothing but pay his bills.  What a crock of crap.  Thank you for clearing that up for me.  It helps explain all the arrogance I saw in higher initiates.

                  --- On Wed, 5/9/12, prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...> wrote:

                  From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
                  Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Yes, Klemp Had A Hip Replacement
                  To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Wednesday, May 9, 2012, 6:04 PM

                   
                  Hello Janice,
                  Yes, upon reaching
                  the 5th initiation one,
                  supposedly, becomes
                  free of Karma... except
                  for daily Karma since
                  consciousness, they
                  claim, is won and/or
                  lost moment-to-moment.
                  Of course, the Catch-22,
                  for Klemp, is that this
                  same law of consciousness
                  applies to himself as
                  well.

                  Anyway, that's the EK dogma.
                  Of course, one really has to
                  be a 6th before they can claim
                  to have completed all of the
                  requirements of the 5th Plane
                  since the outer initiation is
                  the "final" stage.

                  Prometheus

                  Janice wrote:
                  Is it really the case that
                  high initiates are considered
                  karma free and if so at what
                  level is this supposed to be
                  true? I never heard that one
                  before.

                  Prometheus wrote:

                  Here's more that I found
                  on the Internet via Google:

                  Linda. "It was an amazing talk
                  about living and giving divine
                  love to all life regardless of our
                  circumstances. Harold Klemp
                  fell and broke his hip earlier
                  this year."

                  Reflections of Soul
                  â€"Sri Harold Klemp. The Spiritual
                  Leader of ECKANKAR recently
                  broke his hip during a skiing
                  accident. He said he remembered
                  to sing... [Ted Nugent's Stranglehold.
                  He was delirious!]

                  Does breaking one's hip during
                  a ski outing sound like it was
                  related to being a "Holding
                  Tank for Karma" or from being
                  inattentive and lacking experience?

                  Thus, if Klemp trips because
                  he's not paying attention and
                  stubs his toe is this, too, due
                  to the Karma of his chelas?

                  BTW- If HK gets a flat tire, is
                  that the fault of his chelas too?
                  How much blame and guilt
                  can chelas handle? Oh, one
                  more thing, since H.I.s are
                  karma free I'm assuming
                  that Klemp is taking on the
                  karma of the lower initiates
                  only... right?

                  Prometheus

                  prometheus_wrote:
                  >
                  > Hello Russ and All,
                  > Maybe that Karma was
                  > getting too heavy and
                  > his human hip couldn't
                  > handle the load? Maybe
                  > HK lost his balance while
                  > carrying all that karma
                  > down the stairs? I'm thinking
                  > he set the karma down,
                  > and forgot where he put
                  > it, and, then, tripped over
                  > it!
                  >
                  > Yes, Klemp fell and broke
                  > his hip and needed to have
                  > a replacement. Of course
                  > he used the same old "Holding
                  > Tank for Karma" excuse.
                  >
                  > I don't see why HK didn't
                  > just heal himself. WWRD?
                  > What Would Rebazar Do?
                  > I doubt that the fake RT
                  > has a fake hip. He's as
                  > perfect as a lie can be
                  > and is 500 years old...
                  > he's been a "holding
                  > tank for karma" too but
                  > isn't the worst for wear
                  > like Klemp! ROFLMAO!
                  >
                  > I'm told he was still in
                  > pain at the seminar, but
                  > fought through it for his
                  > chelas. What's both funny
                  > and sad is that he's simply
                  > experiencing what his
                  > followers experience, but
                  > they don't use excuses.
                  > It's called life! Plus, Klemp
                  > has the best health care
                  > money can buy!
                  >
                  > Prometheus
                  >
                  >
                  > Russ wrote:
                  > I heard from an eck friend, the HK was in the hospital for 30 days with a broken hip. As anyone heard about this?
                  >
                  > I can hear the jokes this will generate. I guess his reality is a bit 'cracked'.
                  >
                  > but seriously folks...
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Prometheus wrote:
                  >
                  > Hello Etznab and All,
                  > It is interesting that Phil
                  > Morimitsu's books are
                  > no longer available and
                  > that Klemp doesn't permit
                  > other EKists to have their
                  > more profound stories
                  > of experiences printed
                  > since these could possibly
                  > be seen as a challenge
                  > to his authority.
                  >
                  > Some EKists think Klemp
                  > should have stepped down
                  > long ago and that his EMR
                  > illness (circa 1990) was
                  > a "nudge" by the ECK for
                  > him to acknowledge. Instead,
                  > HK used his illnesses to
                  > create the story about
                  > being a "holding tank for
                  > (the) Karma" of his chelas.
                  >
                  > Prometheus
                  >
                  > Etznab wrote:
                  >
                  > They got reports? Hmm ... then maybe I should send in a report? :)
                  >
                  > I could give other examples where it looks like Eckankar is interested
                  > in stories from other people, including what people found by research.
                  > Apparently though, the LEM. isn't going to simply look at the Eck-Vidya
                  > and share answers to all of the questions people have. At the same time
                  > though, it looks like people pick and choose from all the information
                  > only what "THEY WANT" the facts to be and put the rest under the rug.
                  >
                  > If one disregards the reported facts written by Paul Twitchell
                  > concerning his meetings, encounters, and relationships with Eck Masters
                  > then where does it leave you? In Never Never Land with Peter Pan and
                  > Tinker Bell, etc.? (Hey look! He's playing a flute!)
                  >
                  > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neverland
                  >
                  > Are "spiritual experiences", the "stories" (and the stories that people
                  > send in) somehow more REAL than factual accounts which can be
                  > researched and verified? Or, Are "spiritual experiences" sometimes used
                  > as a label for anything a person wants to be true? Iow, does the land
                  > of make believe trump the actual facts? This is what it comes down to,
                  > IMO.

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