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Re: On Transendental Meditatiion and eckankar

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello Noneckster, Actually the TM schools and businesses in the U.S. have been around since the late 70s. It began in Fairfield, Iowa. There are, even, TMers
    Message 1 of 11 , Apr 18, 2012
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      Hello Noneckster,
      Actually the TM schools
      and businesses in the
      U.S. have been around
      since the late '70s. It
      began in Fairfield, Iowa.
      There are, even, TMers
      on the city council
      as well. They moved
      into the small community,
      somewhat like Eckankar
      did, but increased the
      local population two-
      three fold.

      What's amazing is that
      most TMers don't think
      TM is a religion, and it's
      not ever promoted as one.
      Nor, is "God" ever discussed
      in the presence of "citizen"
      (average) TMers. Most believe
      the hype (PR) that the techniques
      are stress reducers which
      also increases awareness,
      harmony, and world peace.

      There are even synchronized
      meditations to enhance the
      "TM effect." In the past TMers
      were sent to African countries
      where conflict was taking place
      in order to produce harmony
      and peace. Except, in TM there
      is a dress code for "Governors"
      (Lords of the Astral worlds)
      and the political leaders in
      these countries thought the
      TMers were, actually, CIA.
      LOL! It is common to send a
      TM group to Washington D.C.
      or to NYC when the United Nations
      is having an important meeting
      involving World Peace.

      What's funny is that Klemp
      has steered away from having
      synchronized HU Chants/Sings.
      HK has, even, forbidden local
      Satangs from having coordinated
      HU Chants when these are taking
      place at Major EK Seminars.

      When one is first initiated
      into TM there is a ceremony
      that is similar to the one
      that Eckankar uses, except,
      for some minor differences.
      Fruit is brought as a gift and
      is presented to the initiator.
      The initiator has a white
      handkerchief where he/she
      places white rice upon. Both
      the fruit and "White" rice are
      offered as gifts to the gods
      (devas). Prayers, are said to
      invoke the Devas while incense
      is burned. After this your
      Mantra will be given to you as
      decided by the initiator from
      a booklet provided to him/her.
      It is repeated and the initiator
      makes sure you understand
      how it is to be pronounced.
      But, they will, also, tell you
      that the pronunciation may
      change and that this is normal.

      As one progresses in TM
      Sutras are taught at retreats
      and in group situations.
      These advanced courses
      are more and more expensive
      and time consuming to
      practice on a daily basis.
      One meditates, reads the
      vedas etc., listens to audios,
      repetes sutras, levitates
      (hops), and reflects. There
      is always a tweaking while
      adding to one's daily "Program."

      What's amusing is that when
      I was joining Eckankar the
      membership donation fee
      was being raised and I heard
      some lower initiates complain
      about not having the time to
      do a 20 minute spiritual exercise/
      contemplation (once per day)!
      I set them straight. I told them
      that the cost of the TM Siddhis
      Program alone amounted to
      at least 20 years of Eckankar
      membership and that 20 minutes
      once a day was nothing when
      compared to doing, for one hour,
      "The Program" TWICE a day!

      Eckists are such wimps!

      Prometheus


      "Non" wrote:
      On Transendental Meditatiion and eckankar

      I have known several people who were in TM and there were lots of problems in
      the community as well as many neglected kids, not to mention the cost. I heard
      recently that Opra is pushing TM and some small town where TM-ers are moving to.
      Now apparently they have their own schools for their kids with school uniforms.
      TM now has its own hierarchy and who knows what this means after the death of
      the founder. I guess they believe that their scam meditation mantras will bring
      about world peace. Kind of like eckists, they don't have to really "do" anything
      in the real world. There is also a lot of pseudo science going on as well.

      Here's some interesting web sites and funny videos:

      http://www.skepdic.com/tm.html

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFfQuCGU0ZQ

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYEF4SHLOPg&feature=related

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n98aq0jBm1s&feature=related

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=fvwp&v=t8saRttyZ_o

      Noneckster ; )


      <prometheus wrote:
      >
      > Hello All,
      > Nice dialogue! Wow! Where
      > to start?
      >
      > First, I would never suggest
      > that a person go to the source
      > (Sant Mat) of Twitchell's con.
      > Religion is a hierarchy of B.S.
      > Sant Mat is just an older and
      > "Eastern" version (with jargon)
      > of the same con Twit used.
      >
      > Yes, I too experienced the
      > opening of the "Third Eye,"
      > so to speak, prior to Eckankar.
      > TM helped with that via the
      > process of becoming a siddha.
      > I had many profound and
      > phenomenal experiences
      > with the use of sutras and
      > meditation.
      >
      > However, the "non-religious"
      > TM thing simply opened "new"
      > pathways of the mind which
      > were developing anyway. I
      > was reading a lot of Eastern
      > philosophy prior to this and
      > enjoyed other experiences
      > like Sufi dancing. I can't really
      > give credit to any guru since
      > it was my own effort and
      > focus. I just needed to hear
      > from an "expert" (i.e. Master)
      > that anything experienced
      > (or not experienced) was
      > normal and as it should be.
      >
      > Also, I'm the one who
      > gave the power to the
      > outer guru when the true
      > guru was me. Then again,
      > life is a process of discovery
      > that we all find (or miss)
      > one way or another if we
      > put forth the effort and
      > look within via introspection.
      > Sometimes it's timing, choices,
      > or fate.
      >
      > Prior to this I experienced
      > altered states via marijuana.
      > I have to say that it did open
      > inner doorways. However,
      > I don't recommend it for
      > regular use and I don't use
      > it now because I enjoy
      > being in control of my
      > mind. Anyway, I'm glad
      > that I had the mind expanding
      > experience.
      >
      > As far as using the HU
      > post Eckankar... yes, but
      > not lately. There comes
      > a time when (IMO) we
      > should find our own way
      > with our own words/tools.
      > Whatever we use is just
      > as valid as it is with all
      > religions when communicating
      > with the divine.
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      > Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
      > Forgot to comment on the drug thing. Yeah, I heard brief snatches of such
      things too and I knew one guy who did obviously appear to still be a pot head.
      Most people seemed to ignore him at functions and seemed to pity him. Looking
      back, I believe it was something that some of them, were they able to be openly
      honest, would have liked to talk about. Drug use is not something you can
      easily know about a person. There may be some active eckist who feel it adds to
      their experiences. From everything I picked up while in eckankar, even the use
      of tobacco is frowned upon. I think if eckist are doing it, it would be with
      out the blessing of their beloved mahanta or the org of eckankar.
      >
      >
      > My husband who died because of drug and alcohol abuse often told me of out of
      the body experiences. He described a lot of things that I did experience at a
      later time with out drugs. I do believe that mind altering drugs can trigger
      meaningful experiences for some people even though at the same time, I think it
      causes an imbalance which eventually makes it hard for the drug user to
      differentiate between what is real and what isn't. I believe the drugs caused
      him to become disoriented to the point that he became earth bound for a while
      after his death.
      >
      > I would hope that spiritual seekers wouldn't use drugs for that purpose. It
      might work as a stimulant for experience initially but continued use will only
      destroy the mind and cause the individual to loose spiritual ground. To me,
      drugs like eckankar are a crutch that some people need because they can't face
      life on their own. I don't judge the drug user. Life can be hard and wanting
      to know about things beyond this earth is something most desirable. I just feel
      the advantages of drug use is not equivalent to what the drugs take away.
      >
      > Well, that is my humble opinion based on what I have experienced. In spirit
      may you all be blessed.
      >
      >
      >
      > Russ Rodnick wrote:
      >
      > I steered away from people that I felt uncomfortable around. Some of my
      friends were unpopular, but we shared a connection. I noticed that there was a
      hierarchy and I wasn't really interested in being a part of that.
      >
      > I remember once at a regional the new RESA, admitted that drugs opened his
      eyes to other realities. You should have heard the commotion! OMG. Talk about
      stirrring it up! And most of the people there knew exactly what he was talking
      about!! But that showed me that the Brother's of the Leaf weren't unified at
      all. He was being sincere which is a rare quality and very desirable.
      >
      > Somehow people feel that spiritual means I'm better than you. But not everyone
      was like that.
      >
      > Actually you mention something about the teachings didn't work. See for me, I
      really had some interesting experiences. But experiences aren't how I judge
      spiritual progress. for me it's about some other things. Like non identifying,
      and being able to stay in the moment, to be present. See, I think that eckankar
      taught us to overlay happiness thus deny what is happening at deeper levels of
      our conscoussness. We in eck didn't think it was good to talk about anything
      that wasn't a spiritual upper. Like if you have a struggle, don't talk it over
      in eck meetings, just go to an esa and give it over to the eck. so we as people
      weren't being real with each other, which I really wanted and always tried to
      acknowledge what was really going on with people. I always got looks from other
      HI's, but I din't care about that so much.
      >
      > The challenge is not to identify with what is going on. to me that is more
      about freedom and detachment than what is practiced in eckankar. also, if we are
      depending on mahanta or whatever, it's a spiritual welfare program. ironically,
      that is what pt, warned against. I'm not an apologist for eckankar, I just know
      that it was, for me, a mixed bag.
      >
      > I think maybe spirit finds a way.
      >
      >
      >
      > Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
      >
      > Unlike you, Russ, I felt I lost myself while in eckankar. It took some time
      after I left to feel like myself again. It was the environment of eckankar and
      how the people acted that confused me so badly I think. There seemed to be a
      world of difference in how the people were and how the eck teachings said it
      should be. Eventually, I grew to feel empty in eckankar because of the lack of
      evidence that any of the teachings really worked as far as the relationships I
      saw among eckist. There was such a lack of unity. The gossip and the back
      biting among them was far worse than in any religious or spiritual group I ever
      saw. When I attempted to talk about it to individuals in eckankar while
      attempting to understand it, I was told that I was being judgmental. Most of
      the eckist I saw acted like very immature, ego ridden idiots who were all about
      themselves. It wasn't a pleasant environment and it certainly didn't encourage
      new members to stick around. That group wasn't growing at all. None the less,
      I tried hard to believe that it was my attitude that needed to change because I
      wanted so much to believe that what I read in the teachings really did work.
      >
      > For a while after I walked away, I did continue to use hu because I always
      found it comforting. I weaned myself off of it because it was too big a part of
      eckankar to keep. The only lasting concept that I took away from eckankar was
      the concept of the golden tongue wisdom. The idea that one hears what one needs
      to hear when one needs to hear it is still valid for me. You might hear
      something a dozen times with out giving it real value until you can some how
      apply it to your own life. Then suddenly it has new meaning. Or you might have
      an issue that you are mulling over and suddenly you hear something that may not
      have even been meant for you and suddenly with it, you have the clarity you need
      to put things in perspective.
      >
      > I have always been a little to analytical. I have always questioned more with
      my mind than I accept with my heart. Since leaving eckankar, I have learned to
      shut down the mental aspects more and I feel like more of a loving being. In
      fact, sometimes I almost feel like I enter what I can only refer to as a state
      of grace when I feel like I have an inner knowing that feels more perfect than
      any experience I ever had previously. It takes effort to get there and even
      more to maintain it. It is my belief that the brain is only useful for taking
      care of day to day activity. For me it was necessary to learn to shut it down
      to grow more spiritually. I think for me it was impossible to advance
      spiritually in eckankar for that reason. All the concepts and eckankar crappy
      crap kept me locked into mental energy. My spiritual freedom came from going
      within to see and feel soul. Looking back, eckankar chains its people with
      supposed duties to the master to the point that I don't know how they can
      justify even talking about spiritual freedom.
      >
      > I will say that had I not experienced eckankar, I might not have ever known
      what spiritual freedom was. It was only after experiencing the chains of
      eckankar that I truly felt free when I walked away. So although I have nothing
      but contempt for eckankar now, I must say that it did contribute to my growth
      but not in the way they claim. It showed me everythig that I didn't want or
      need.
      >
      >
      >
      > Russ Rodnick wrote:
      >
      > Have any of you kept up with any of the spiritual practices you learned while
      in Eck, or have you been able to adopt them to a generic format dropping the eck
      words and ideas and going back to more generic form?
      > I get something from declaring myself a channel for spirit and simply
      listening and feeling my body and breath. I mean most everything was taken from
      other more established practitioners and authors so they(practices and ideas)
      have stood on their own feet. Though we didn't learn them from the original
      authors, we still have had contact with them.
      > I suppose some of you feel so burned that you don't even want to hear any of
      this; I do understand that sentiment having felt it too. I am by nature a
      sensitive, so I have to have practices to help me stay balanced. I gained a
      strong sense of my self while in eck and did derive benefits.
      > Stay open to the truth and what works!
      > Russ
      >
      > prometheus wrote:
      >
      > Go placidly amidst the noise and haste, and remember what peace there may be
      in silence. As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all
      persons. Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even the
      dull and the ignorant; they too have their story. Avoid loud and aggressive
      persons, they are vexations to the spirit. If you compare yourself with others,
      you may become vain or bitter; for always there will be greater and lesser
      persons than yourself. Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans. Keep
      interested in your own career, however humble; it is a real possession in the
      changing fortunes of time. Exercise caution in your business affairs; for the
      world is full of trickery. But let this not blind you to what virtue there is;
      many persons strive for high ideals; and everywhere life is full of heroism. Be
      yourself. Especially, do not feign affection. Neither be cynical about love; for
      in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is as perennial as the grass.
      Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of
      youth. Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not
      distress yourself with dark imaginings. Many fears are born of fatigue and
      loneliness. Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a
      child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to
      be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is
      unfolding as it should. Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive
      Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of
      life keep peace with your soul. With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams,
      it is still a beautiful world. Be cheerful. Strive to be happy.----- Max Ehrmann
      (The Desiderata).
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