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Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: ECKists Wearing Blinders

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  • Janice Pfeiffer
    To Nonecster:  Thank your lucky stars that you didn t invest more time and energy into eckankar.  As for your relative, I believe that eckist are so
    Message 1 of 5 , Apr 18, 2012
      To Nonecster:  Thank your lucky stars that you didn't invest more time and energy into eckankar.  As for your relative, I believe that eckist are so entranced by their religion that there is nothing you can say.  I have seen some who read the truth about eckankar; agree that it is full of lies and go right back into it because of fear or just plain needing the comfort of belonging to something so controlling.  I think if you give them the material that shows them the truth and then refuse to argue about it, they would have a better chance of waking up. Either they take hold to the life line or they don't.   Trying to force them to see the truth only seems to make them more determined to hold on.  I wish you and all of yours the best.  Please be at peace in knowing that it is the responsibility of each of us to make our own path.  You are not responsible that one or more of yours chooses to wear the chains of eckankar. 
      --- On Wed, 4/18/12, Non <eckchains@...> wrote:

      From: Non <eckchains@...>
      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: ECKists Wearing Blinders
      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Wednesday, April 18, 2012, 5:39 AM

       
      This is exactly what my close relative does, except there is also this constant sense of superiority and displaced anger at me for having gone through a period when I was younger in which he tried desperately to get me to join, which of course involved me asking a lot of questions, not only about eckanakar but other religions, mysticism and philosophy. I am a very curious person by nature, and this also means that I see through inconsistencies. I was not a very good eckist, even though I was having lucid dreams in childhood, long before getting involved in the cult. eckankult really did a number on me because of my natural propensity towards mysticism and poetic dreaming.

      eckists are really just in a self-imposed state of ignorance. They can't see the forest OR the trees, as theirs is a low information hierarchical religion. Trying to engage them in any kind of interesting conversation is really impossible, even suggesting a book on compassion will get a defensive reaction.

      Thanks for your post. It helped me to affirm and articulate what was in the back of my mind, and to understand why being around this eckist irks me so much. Unfortunately, when it is family, you can't just walk away as easily. It's hard.

      Noneckster ; )

      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hello All,
      > It's so interesting talking
      > to current EK H.I.s... not!
      >
      > What I found to be both
      > odd and comical is that
      > the subject of religion
      > seems to be off-limits
      > and that ECKists are
      > both uninformed
      > and naive about other
      > religions. I'm talking
      > about discussing the
      > nutty Mormons, Old
      > Testament Christians,
      > and Muslims.
      >
      > Or, maybe it's the H.I.s
      > I know since they've
      > been programmed for
      > 30-40, plus, years not
      > to gossip or to say any-
      > thing negative. Nah! If
      > you say anything about
      > about the GOP candidates
      > you can get an ear full...
      > except when you bring
      > up the religious nut cases!
      >
      > Really, I steer away from
      > discussing anything ECK,
      > unless, they bring the topic
      > up and then I simply go
      > along with it and say something
      > nice or neutral like, "Oh,
      > you stayed at the Chanhassen
      > Inn? How did that work
      > out with transportation?"
      >
      > When EKists discuss
      > religion it's like...
      > let's be polite and
      > allow everyone to
      > believe as they choose
      > and not criticize
      > people or their
      > religious beliefs.
      > Except, PT and HK
      > have pointed out
      > that all other religions
      > are 2nd or 4th Plane
      > religions and their
      > "God" is actually
      > the KAL or Satan.
      >
      > So, being nice and
      > polite and giving
      > a person space and
      > all of that is a facade!
      > The real problem is
      > EKists don't want to
      > throw stones when
      > they're in a cult that
      > can be equally criticized
      > for their own short comings.
      >
      > This is the real reason
      > for EKists to avoid any
      > discussions about other
      > religions and their negative,
      > primitive behaviors and
      > beliefs.
      >
      > Plus, wouldn't EKists have
      > to admit (unconsciously)
      > that their beliefs are as
      > mythological, with pretend
      > beings, heavenly places,
      > and a hypocritical conman/
      > leader as do all of those
      > other lesser, phony religions?
      > No, they'd never consciously
      > allow those doubts to resurface.
      > One thing I do know. Everyone
      > has doubts and misgivings
      > and these do surface from
      > time-to-time, especially,
      > as one ages.
      >
      > Yes, Eckists are very judgmental,
      > except, it's usually hidden
      > or rationalized in some way.
      > Look at how RESAs determine
      > who's to be recommended
      > for a pink slip or given
      > a position in the Satsang's
      > hierarchy. It's a judgement
      > call based upon opinions,
      > bias, emotions, personalities,
      > and less to do with "spiritual"
      > standards since they don't
      > have a clue!
      >
      > Another reason why EKists
      > don't want a discussion
      > of other religions is because
      > the conversation might
      > plant some seeds that
      > would grow and open the
      > door for EKists to look at
      > their own religion with new
      > eyes. New insights can lead
      > to a new perspective that
      > would reveal the truth about
      > Eckankar.
      >
      > I will say that EKists can't
      > really make a fair comparison
      > to other religions. It's like
      > being Amish. What other
      > religion compares with theirs?
      > On second thought, all religions
      > have rules and dogma that
      > are edited and reinterpreted
      > by the leaders of the hierarchy.
      >
      > Maybe these are the things
      > that make religions possible:
      > A Leader; Dogma; Rules;
      > Laws; Symbols; a Hierarchy;
      > Ignorant Followers; and Money!
      >
      > The belief in God, and the
      > communication with the
      > Divine Essence is something
      > a person can do on one's own.
      >
      > Isn't that the way it should be?
      >
      > Prometheus
      >

    • prometheus_973
      Hello All, I think that the reason there aren t many EKists discovering/uncovering the truth about Eckankar is that they don t read books by non-EK authors.
      Message 2 of 5 , Apr 18, 2012
        Hello All,
        I think that the reason
        there aren't many EKists
        discovering/uncovering
        the truth about Eckankar
        is that they don't read
        books by non-EK authors.
        They have a rather limited,
        stunted and passive view
        of things. Like Klemp,
        whom they emulate,
        most EKists are more
        talkers than listeners.

        It's so funny when one
        looks at the list of books
        and movies the average
        H.I. will recommend.
        "Animal Angels" and
        other childish, immature
        or antiseptic material
        is common place.

        Where's the EK book
        on "People Angels"
        where non-Eckists
        (common people),
        as with animals, are
        instruments of the
        Divine? I know it happens
        because non-EKists
        have written dozens
        of books on the subject.

        Many H.I.s are simply
        stuck in the past along
        with Klemp. It's sad that
        they've given up seeking
        the Truth. As independent,
        powerful and unique Souls,
        as we all are, there should
        be some desire to want
        more than what Klemp
        has delivered upon via
        empty promises that are
        equivalent to what other
        religions conmen have
        promised!

        The "spiritual" posers,
        like Klemp, create a need
        for codependence. EKists
        have taken the bait and
        have fallen into the trap
        as they beseech the
        Mahanta to make common
        place decisions for them
        on a daily basis.

        Yet, Klemp has no knowledge
        of these requests, unless,
        informed so by snail-mail
        correspondence. Not much
        "Inner Communication"
        is there? The Catch-22 is
        that EKists can use the mind
        to dream or imagine their
        reality and to "prove" the
        promises and the dogma.
        This is what every other
        religion does and, yet, EKists
        refuse to acknowledge the
        flaws and the deceptions.

        Maybe, Eckankar is the religion
        closest to their beliefs and they
        accept the good with the bad
        since nothing is perfect (in the
        lower worlds). They need to belong
        to a group of like minded people
        who won't laugh at them or think
        they're crazy cultists. People are
        social animals and Eckankar gives
        EKists something to do (busy
        work of PR and sales) and an
        excuse to get together... to act
        important, spiritually evolved,
        and to look for a "love" connection.

        Really, it's nicer and easier to
        follow the crowd and the well
        worn path. Self-mastery and
        responsibility requires more
        effort and courage.... and more
        awareness of tests, trials and traps.

        Prometheus
        p.s. Around 2000-2001 Klemp
        mentioned that there were
        some people coming into
        Eckankar (1st initiates) that
        were more spiritually advanced
        than some H.I.s (5-9). I was
        involved with a Roundtable
        discussion at the time and
        a lower initiate pointed this
        HK quote out to a H.I. (5-6th)
        Wow! The H.I. got really hot!

        Then again, can you blame
        this H.I. when he's jumped
        through all of the hoops and
        took all those discourses
        and leadership trainings and
        invested all of that time and
        money and, here he is, no
        better off nor more spiritually
        "evolved" as a new 1st initiate!

        That info must have flown
        over the heads of 99% of
        H.I.s. or they simply tuned
        it out and continued on with
        their denial. But, it does make
        one wonder why Klemp would
        undermine the EK initiations.

        But, how spiritually evolved
        or advanced does one have
        to be when compared to EK
        Higher Initiates? LOL! Maybe
        Klemp was having some fun
        with his stooges, and at their
        expense! [end]

        ****************************************
        Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
        To Nonecster: Thank your lucky stars that you didn't invest more time and
        energy into eckankar. As for your relative, I believe that eckist are so
        entranced by their religion that there is nothing you can say. I have seen some
        who read the truth about eckankar; agree that it is full of lies and go right
        back into it because of fear or just plain needing the comfort of belonging to
        something so controlling. I think if you give them the material that shows them
        the truth and then refuse to argue about it, they would have a better chance of
        waking up. Either they take hold to the life line or they don't. Trying to
        force them to see the truth only seems to make them more determined to hold on.
        I wish you and all of yours the best. Please be at peace in knowing that it is
        the responsibility of each of us to make our own path. You are not responsible
        that one or more of yours chooses to wear the chains of eckankar.


        Non eckchains wrote:

        This is exactly what my close relative does, except there is also this constant
        sense of superiority and displaced anger at me for having gone through a period
        when I was younger in which he tried desperately to get me to join, which of
        course involved me asking a lot of questions, not only about eckanakar but other
        religions, mysticism and philosophy. I am a very curious person by nature, and
        this also means that I see through inconsistencies. I was not a very good
        eckist, even though I was having lucid dreams in childhood, long before getting
        involved in the cult. eckankult really did a number on me because of my natural
        propensity towards mysticism and poetic dreaming.

        eckists are really just in a self-imposed state of ignorance. They can't see the
        forest OR the trees, as theirs is a low information hierarchical religion.
        Trying to engage them in any kind of interesting conversation is really
        impossible, even suggesting a book on compassion will get a defensive reaction.

        Thanks for your post. It helped me to affirm and articulate what was in the back
        of my mind, and to understand why being around this eckist irks me so much.
        Unfortunately, when it is family, you can't just walk away as easily. It's hard.

        Noneckster ; )

        prometheus wrote:
        >
        > Hello All,
        > It's so interesting talking
        > to current EK H.I.s... not!
        >
        > What I found to be both
        > odd and comical is that
        > the subject of religion
        > seems to be off-limits
        > and that ECKists are
        > both uninformed
        > and naive about other
        > religions. I'm talking
        > about discussing the
        > nutty Mormons, Old
        > Testament Christians,
        > and Muslims.
        >
        > Or, maybe it's the H.I.s
        > I know since they've
        > been programmed for
        > 30-40, plus, years not
        > to gossip or to say any-
        > thing negative. Nah! If
        > you say anything about
        > about the GOP candidates
        > you can get an ear full...
        > except when you bring
        > up the religious nut cases!
        >
        > Really, I steer away from
        > discussing anything ECK,
        > unless, they bring the topic
        > up and then I simply go
        > along with it and say something
        > nice or neutral like, "Oh,
        > you stayed at the Chanhassen
        > Inn? How did that work
        > out with transportation?"
        >
        > When EKists discuss
        > religion it's like...
        > let's be polite and
        > allow everyone to
        > believe as they choose
        > and not criticize
        > people or their
        > religious beliefs.
        > Except, PT and HK
        > have pointed out
        > that all other religions
        > are 2nd or 4th Plane
        > religions and their
        > "God" is actually
        > the KAL or Satan.
        >
        > So, being nice and
        > polite and giving
        > a person space and
        > all of that is a facade!
        > The real problem is
        > EKists don't want to
        > throw stones when
        > they're in a cult that
        > can be equally criticized
        > for their own short comings.
        >
        > This is the real reason
        > for EKists to avoid any
        > discussions about other
        > religions and their negative,
        > primitive behaviors and
        > beliefs.
        >
        > Plus, wouldn't EKists have
        > to admit (unconsciously)
        > that their beliefs are as
        > mythological, with pretend
        > beings, heavenly places,
        > and a hypocritical conman/
        > leader as do all of those
        > other lesser, phony religions?
        > No, they'd never consciously
        > allow those doubts to resurface.
        > One thing I do know. Everyone
        > has doubts and misgivings
        > and these do surface from
        > time-to-time, especially,
        > as one ages.
        >
        > Yes, Eckists are very judgmental,
        > except, it's usually hidden
        > or rationalized in some way.
        > Look at how RESAs determine
        > who's to be recommended
        > for a pink slip or given
        > a position in the Satsang's
        > hierarchy. It's a judgement
        > call based upon opinions,
        > bias, emotions, personalities,
        > and less to do with "spiritual"
        > standards since they don't
        > have a clue!
        >
        > Another reason why EKists
        > don't want a discussion
        > of other religions is because
        > the conversation might
        > plant some seeds that
        > would grow and open the
        > door for EKists to look at
        > their own religion with new
        > eyes. New insights can lead
        > to a new perspective that
        > would reveal the truth about
        > Eckankar.
        >
        > I will say that EKists can't
        > really make a fair comparison
        > to other religions. It's like
        > being Amish. What other
        > religion compares with theirs?
        > On second thought, all religions
        > have rules and dogma that
        > are edited and reinterpreted
        > by the leaders of the hierarchy.
        >
        > Maybe these are the things
        > that make religions possible:
        > A Leader; Dogma; Rules;
        > Laws; Symbols; a Hierarchy;
        > Ignorant Followers; and Money!
        >
        > The belief in God, and the
        > communication with the
        > Divine Essence is something
        > a person can do on one's own.
        >
        > Isn't that the way it should be?
        >
        > Prometheus
      • prometheus_973
        Hello Non and All, Eckists do tend to get defensive when questioned about the quirky things they ve learned from Klemp. I remember once, not long ago, that I
        Message 3 of 5 , Apr 19, 2012
          Hello Non and All,
          Eckists do tend to get
          defensive when questioned
          about the quirky things
          they've learned from Klemp.

          I remember once, not long
          ago, that I asked a H.I. what
          the symptoms were for her
          EMF/EMR disease which HK,
          also, suffers from. She got
          very defensive and shut the
          conversation down. I have
          the impression that she
          shared the info with people
          from work and they may
          have questioned her sanity.

          Yes, you can lead a horse
          to water but...

          Actually, Eckists don't want
          to know about other religions
          because they have found
          the "truth." And, they certainly
          don't want to know that
          Twitchell fabricated this
          "truth" to fit his purposes.

          It's too confusing for EKists
          to make comparisons between
          Eckankar and Sant Mat. And,
          EKists aren't allowed to ask
          questions after two years,
          but are discouraged from
          asking questions prior to
          this.

          Besides, EKists are fearful
          and somewhat superstitious.
          If they have questions this
          means they have doubts.
          These might creep into their
          unconscious mind and could
          impede their spiritual progress
          with the Mahanta on the "inner."
          Plus, having doubts or questions
          is a sign of spiritual immaturity,
          therefore, they play-the-game,
          like HK did to get his early
          release from the Mental Institution,
          and act like they have the answers.

          As far as you not being
          a very good Eckist, youse
          guys were one of my pet
          peeves when I was an H.I.
          LOL! The "active" Eckists
          are in the minority and it
          was tough getting chelas
          to even show up for Satsang
          classes. Forget about Open
          Houses or HU Chants! Zero!

          Yes, the conversation with
          Eckists is limiting, but if
          you stick to the New Age
          crap you can find a common
          ground. Many Satsangs will
          have booths at psychic fairs
          and will rub elbows with
          the New Agers selling their
          holistic hodgepodge of
          snake oil remedies. It's a
          good Astral fit for Eckankar.

          Nowadays people are on
          the computer so much there's
          no reason not to have Satsang
          classes or Open Houses, etc.
          online. I'm not sure if Klemp
          has figured that out or if his
          EMF scare tactics have worked,
          after all, and scared his audience
          away. I personally know of
          three H.I.s he scared with
          EMF!

          Prometheus

          "Non"eckchainswrote:
          This is exactly what my close relative does, except there is also this constant
          sense of superiority and displaced anger at me for having gone through a period
          when I was younger in which he tried desperately to get me to join, which of
          course involved me asking a lot of questions, not only about eckanakar but other
          religions, mysticism and philosophy. I am a very curious person by nature, and
          this also means that I see through inconsistencies. I was not a very good
          eckist, even though I was having lucid dreams in childhood, long before getting
          involved in the cult. eckankult really did a number on me because of my natural
          propensity towards mysticism and poetic dreaming.

          eckists are really just in a self-imposed state of ignorance. They can't see the
          forest OR the trees, as theirs is a low information hierarchical religion.
          Trying to engage them in any kind of interesting conversation is really
          impossible, even suggesting a book on compassion will get a defensive reaction.

          Thanks for your post. It helped me to affirm and articulate what was in the back
          of my mind, and to understand why being around this eckist irks me so much.
          Unfortunately, when it is family, you can't just walk away as easily. It's hard.

          Noneckster ; )

          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
          <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello All,
          > It's so interesting talking
          > to current EK H.I.s... not!
          >
          > What I found to be both
          > odd and comical is that
          > the subject of religion
          > seems to be off-limits
          > and that ECKists are
          > both uninformed
          > and naive about other
          > religions. I'm talking
          > about discussing the
          > nutty Mormons, Old
          > Testament Christians,
          > and Muslims.
          >
          > Or, maybe it's the H.I.s
          > I know since they've
          > been programmed for
          > 30-40, plus, years not
          > to gossip or to say any-
          > thing negative. Nah! If
          > you say anything about
          > about the GOP candidates
          > you can get an ear full...
          > except when you bring
          > up the religious nut cases!
          >
          > Really, I steer away from
          > discussing anything ECK,
          > unless, they bring the topic
          > up and then I simply go
          > along with it and say something
          > nice or neutral like, "Oh,
          > you stayed at the Chanhassen
          > Inn? How did that work
          > out with transportation?"
          >
          > When EKists discuss
          > religion it's like...
          > let's be polite and
          > allow everyone to
          > believe as they choose
          > and not criticize
          > people or their
          > religious beliefs.
          > Except, PT and HK
          > have pointed out
          > that all other religions
          > are 2nd or 4th Plane
          > religions and their
          > "God" is actually
          > the KAL or Satan.
          >
          > So, being nice and
          > polite and giving
          > a person space and
          > all of that is a facade!
          > The real problem is
          > EKists don't want to
          > throw stones when
          > they're in a cult that
          > can be equally criticized
          > for their own short comings.
          >
          > This is the real reason
          > for EKists to avoid any
          > discussions about other
          > religions and their negative,
          > primitive behaviors and
          > beliefs.
          >
          > Plus, wouldn't EKists have
          > to admit (unconsciously)
          > that their beliefs are as
          > mythological, with pretend
          > beings, heavenly places,
          > and a hypocritical conman/
          > leader as do all of those
          > other lesser, phony religions?
          > No, they'd never consciously
          > allow those doubts to resurface.
          > One thing I do know. Everyone
          > has doubts and misgivings
          > and these do surface from
          > time-to-time, especially,
          > as one ages.
          >
          > Yes, Eckists are very judgmental,
          > except, it's usually hidden
          > or rationalized in some way.
          > Look at how RESAs determine
          > who's to be recommended
          > for a pink slip or given
          > a position in the Satsang's
          > hierarchy. It's a judgement
          > call based upon opinions,
          > bias, emotions, personalities,
          > and less to do with "spiritual"
          > standards since they don't
          > have a clue!
          >
          > Another reason why EKists
          > don't want a discussion
          > of other religions is because
          > the conversation might
          > plant some seeds that
          > would grow and open the
          > door for EKists to look at
          > their own religion with new
          > eyes. New insights can lead
          > to a new perspective that
          > would reveal the truth about
          > Eckankar.
          >
          > I will say that EKists can't
          > really make a fair comparison
          > to other religions. It's like
          > being Amish. What other
          > religion compares with theirs?
          > On second thought, all religions
          > have rules and dogma that
          > are edited and reinterpreted
          > by the leaders of the hierarchy.
          >
          > Maybe these are the things
          > that make religions possible:
          > A Leader; Dogma; Rules;
          > Laws; Symbols; a Hierarchy;
          > Ignorant Followers; and Money!
          >
          > The belief in God, and the
          > communication with the
          > Divine Essence is something
          > a person can do on one's own.
          >
          > Isn't that the way it should be?
          >
          > Prometheus
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