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Re: ECKists Wearing Blinders

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  • Non
    This is exactly what my close relative does, except there is also this constant sense of superiority and displaced anger at me for having gone through a period
    Message 1 of 5 , Apr 17, 2012
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      This is exactly what my close relative does, except there is also this constant sense of superiority and displaced anger at me for having gone through a period when I was younger in which he tried desperately to get me to join, which of course involved me asking a lot of questions, not only about eckanakar but other religions, mysticism and philosophy. I am a very curious person by nature, and this also means that I see through inconsistencies. I was not a very good eckist, even though I was having lucid dreams in childhood, long before getting involved in the cult. eckankult really did a number on me because of my natural propensity towards mysticism and poetic dreaming.

      eckists are really just in a self-imposed state of ignorance. They can't see the forest OR the trees, as theirs is a low information hierarchical religion. Trying to engage them in any kind of interesting conversation is really impossible, even suggesting a book on compassion will get a defensive reaction.

      Thanks for your post. It helped me to affirm and articulate what was in the back of my mind, and to understand why being around this eckist irks me so much. Unfortunately, when it is family, you can't just walk away as easily. It's hard.

      Noneckster ; )

      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hello All,
      > It's so interesting talking
      > to current EK H.I.s... not!
      >
      > What I found to be both
      > odd and comical is that
      > the subject of religion
      > seems to be off-limits
      > and that ECKists are
      > both uninformed
      > and naive about other
      > religions. I'm talking
      > about discussing the
      > nutty Mormons, Old
      > Testament Christians,
      > and Muslims.
      >
      > Or, maybe it's the H.I.s
      > I know since they've
      > been programmed for
      > 30-40, plus, years not
      > to gossip or to say any-
      > thing negative. Nah! If
      > you say anything about
      > about the GOP candidates
      > you can get an ear full...
      > except when you bring
      > up the religious nut cases!
      >
      > Really, I steer away from
      > discussing anything ECK,
      > unless, they bring the topic
      > up and then I simply go
      > along with it and say something
      > nice or neutral like, "Oh,
      > you stayed at the Chanhassen
      > Inn? How did that work
      > out with transportation?"
      >
      > When EKists discuss
      > religion it's like...
      > let's be polite and
      > allow everyone to
      > believe as they choose
      > and not criticize
      > people or their
      > religious beliefs.
      > Except, PT and HK
      > have pointed out
      > that all other religions
      > are 2nd or 4th Plane
      > religions and their
      > "God" is actually
      > the KAL or Satan.
      >
      > So, being nice and
      > polite and giving
      > a person space and
      > all of that is a facade!
      > The real problem is
      > EKists don't want to
      > throw stones when
      > they're in a cult that
      > can be equally criticized
      > for their own short comings.
      >
      > This is the real reason
      > for EKists to avoid any
      > discussions about other
      > religions and their negative,
      > primitive behaviors and
      > beliefs.
      >
      > Plus, wouldn't EKists have
      > to admit (unconsciously)
      > that their beliefs are as
      > mythological, with pretend
      > beings, heavenly places,
      > and a hypocritical conman/
      > leader as do all of those
      > other lesser, phony religions?
      > No, they'd never consciously
      > allow those doubts to resurface.
      > One thing I do know. Everyone
      > has doubts and misgivings
      > and these do surface from
      > time-to-time, especially,
      > as one ages.
      >
      > Yes, Eckists are very judgmental,
      > except, it's usually hidden
      > or rationalized in some way.
      > Look at how RESAs determine
      > who's to be recommended
      > for a pink slip or given
      > a position in the Satsang's
      > hierarchy. It's a judgement
      > call based upon opinions,
      > bias, emotions, personalities,
      > and less to do with "spiritual"
      > standards since they don't
      > have a clue!
      >
      > Another reason why EKists
      > don't want a discussion
      > of other religions is because
      > the conversation might
      > plant some seeds that
      > would grow and open the
      > door for EKists to look at
      > their own religion with new
      > eyes. New insights can lead
      > to a new perspective that
      > would reveal the truth about
      > Eckankar.
      >
      > I will say that EKists can't
      > really make a fair comparison
      > to other religions. It's like
      > being Amish. What other
      > religion compares with theirs?
      > On second thought, all religions
      > have rules and dogma that
      > are edited and reinterpreted
      > by the leaders of the hierarchy.
      >
      > Maybe these are the things
      > that make religions possible:
      > A Leader; Dogma; Rules;
      > Laws; Symbols; a Hierarchy;
      > Ignorant Followers; and Money!
      >
      > The belief in God, and the
      > communication with the
      > Divine Essence is something
      > a person can do on one's own.
      >
      > Isn't that the way it should be?
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
    • Janice Pfeiffer
      To Nonecster:  Thank your lucky stars that you didn t invest more time and energy into eckankar.  As for your relative, I believe that eckist are so
      Message 2 of 5 , Apr 18, 2012
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        To Nonecster:  Thank your lucky stars that you didn't invest more time and energy into eckankar.  As for your relative, I believe that eckist are so entranced by their religion that there is nothing you can say.  I have seen some who read the truth about eckankar; agree that it is full of lies and go right back into it because of fear or just plain needing the comfort of belonging to something so controlling.  I think if you give them the material that shows them the truth and then refuse to argue about it, they would have a better chance of waking up. Either they take hold to the life line or they don't.   Trying to force them to see the truth only seems to make them more determined to hold on.  I wish you and all of yours the best.  Please be at peace in knowing that it is the responsibility of each of us to make our own path.  You are not responsible that one or more of yours chooses to wear the chains of eckankar. 
        --- On Wed, 4/18/12, Non <eckchains@...> wrote:

        From: Non <eckchains@...>
        Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: ECKists Wearing Blinders
        To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Wednesday, April 18, 2012, 5:39 AM

         
        This is exactly what my close relative does, except there is also this constant sense of superiority and displaced anger at me for having gone through a period when I was younger in which he tried desperately to get me to join, which of course involved me asking a lot of questions, not only about eckanakar but other religions, mysticism and philosophy. I am a very curious person by nature, and this also means that I see through inconsistencies. I was not a very good eckist, even though I was having lucid dreams in childhood, long before getting involved in the cult. eckankult really did a number on me because of my natural propensity towards mysticism and poetic dreaming.

        eckists are really just in a self-imposed state of ignorance. They can't see the forest OR the trees, as theirs is a low information hierarchical religion. Trying to engage them in any kind of interesting conversation is really impossible, even suggesting a book on compassion will get a defensive reaction.

        Thanks for your post. It helped me to affirm and articulate what was in the back of my mind, and to understand why being around this eckist irks me so much. Unfortunately, when it is family, you can't just walk away as easily. It's hard.

        Noneckster ; )

        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello All,
        > It's so interesting talking
        > to current EK H.I.s... not!
        >
        > What I found to be both
        > odd and comical is that
        > the subject of religion
        > seems to be off-limits
        > and that ECKists are
        > both uninformed
        > and naive about other
        > religions. I'm talking
        > about discussing the
        > nutty Mormons, Old
        > Testament Christians,
        > and Muslims.
        >
        > Or, maybe it's the H.I.s
        > I know since they've
        > been programmed for
        > 30-40, plus, years not
        > to gossip or to say any-
        > thing negative. Nah! If
        > you say anything about
        > about the GOP candidates
        > you can get an ear full...
        > except when you bring
        > up the religious nut cases!
        >
        > Really, I steer away from
        > discussing anything ECK,
        > unless, they bring the topic
        > up and then I simply go
        > along with it and say something
        > nice or neutral like, "Oh,
        > you stayed at the Chanhassen
        > Inn? How did that work
        > out with transportation?"
        >
        > When EKists discuss
        > religion it's like...
        > let's be polite and
        > allow everyone to
        > believe as they choose
        > and not criticize
        > people or their
        > religious beliefs.
        > Except, PT and HK
        > have pointed out
        > that all other religions
        > are 2nd or 4th Plane
        > religions and their
        > "God" is actually
        > the KAL or Satan.
        >
        > So, being nice and
        > polite and giving
        > a person space and
        > all of that is a facade!
        > The real problem is
        > EKists don't want to
        > throw stones when
        > they're in a cult that
        > can be equally criticized
        > for their own short comings.
        >
        > This is the real reason
        > for EKists to avoid any
        > discussions about other
        > religions and their negative,
        > primitive behaviors and
        > beliefs.
        >
        > Plus, wouldn't EKists have
        > to admit (unconsciously)
        > that their beliefs are as
        > mythological, with pretend
        > beings, heavenly places,
        > and a hypocritical conman/
        > leader as do all of those
        > other lesser, phony religions?
        > No, they'd never consciously
        > allow those doubts to resurface.
        > One thing I do know. Everyone
        > has doubts and misgivings
        > and these do surface from
        > time-to-time, especially,
        > as one ages.
        >
        > Yes, Eckists are very judgmental,
        > except, it's usually hidden
        > or rationalized in some way.
        > Look at how RESAs determine
        > who's to be recommended
        > for a pink slip or given
        > a position in the Satsang's
        > hierarchy. It's a judgement
        > call based upon opinions,
        > bias, emotions, personalities,
        > and less to do with "spiritual"
        > standards since they don't
        > have a clue!
        >
        > Another reason why EKists
        > don't want a discussion
        > of other religions is because
        > the conversation might
        > plant some seeds that
        > would grow and open the
        > door for EKists to look at
        > their own religion with new
        > eyes. New insights can lead
        > to a new perspective that
        > would reveal the truth about
        > Eckankar.
        >
        > I will say that EKists can't
        > really make a fair comparison
        > to other religions. It's like
        > being Amish. What other
        > religion compares with theirs?
        > On second thought, all religions
        > have rules and dogma that
        > are edited and reinterpreted
        > by the leaders of the hierarchy.
        >
        > Maybe these are the things
        > that make religions possible:
        > A Leader; Dogma; Rules;
        > Laws; Symbols; a Hierarchy;
        > Ignorant Followers; and Money!
        >
        > The belief in God, and the
        > communication with the
        > Divine Essence is something
        > a person can do on one's own.
        >
        > Isn't that the way it should be?
        >
        > Prometheus
        >

      • prometheus_973
        Hello All, I think that the reason there aren t many EKists discovering/uncovering the truth about Eckankar is that they don t read books by non-EK authors.
        Message 3 of 5 , Apr 18, 2012
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          Hello All,
          I think that the reason
          there aren't many EKists
          discovering/uncovering
          the truth about Eckankar
          is that they don't read
          books by non-EK authors.
          They have a rather limited,
          stunted and passive view
          of things. Like Klemp,
          whom they emulate,
          most EKists are more
          talkers than listeners.

          It's so funny when one
          looks at the list of books
          and movies the average
          H.I. will recommend.
          "Animal Angels" and
          other childish, immature
          or antiseptic material
          is common place.

          Where's the EK book
          on "People Angels"
          where non-Eckists
          (common people),
          as with animals, are
          instruments of the
          Divine? I know it happens
          because non-EKists
          have written dozens
          of books on the subject.

          Many H.I.s are simply
          stuck in the past along
          with Klemp. It's sad that
          they've given up seeking
          the Truth. As independent,
          powerful and unique Souls,
          as we all are, there should
          be some desire to want
          more than what Klemp
          has delivered upon via
          empty promises that are
          equivalent to what other
          religions conmen have
          promised!

          The "spiritual" posers,
          like Klemp, create a need
          for codependence. EKists
          have taken the bait and
          have fallen into the trap
          as they beseech the
          Mahanta to make common
          place decisions for them
          on a daily basis.

          Yet, Klemp has no knowledge
          of these requests, unless,
          informed so by snail-mail
          correspondence. Not much
          "Inner Communication"
          is there? The Catch-22 is
          that EKists can use the mind
          to dream or imagine their
          reality and to "prove" the
          promises and the dogma.
          This is what every other
          religion does and, yet, EKists
          refuse to acknowledge the
          flaws and the deceptions.

          Maybe, Eckankar is the religion
          closest to their beliefs and they
          accept the good with the bad
          since nothing is perfect (in the
          lower worlds). They need to belong
          to a group of like minded people
          who won't laugh at them or think
          they're crazy cultists. People are
          social animals and Eckankar gives
          EKists something to do (busy
          work of PR and sales) and an
          excuse to get together... to act
          important, spiritually evolved,
          and to look for a "love" connection.

          Really, it's nicer and easier to
          follow the crowd and the well
          worn path. Self-mastery and
          responsibility requires more
          effort and courage.... and more
          awareness of tests, trials and traps.

          Prometheus
          p.s. Around 2000-2001 Klemp
          mentioned that there were
          some people coming into
          Eckankar (1st initiates) that
          were more spiritually advanced
          than some H.I.s (5-9). I was
          involved with a Roundtable
          discussion at the time and
          a lower initiate pointed this
          HK quote out to a H.I. (5-6th)
          Wow! The H.I. got really hot!

          Then again, can you blame
          this H.I. when he's jumped
          through all of the hoops and
          took all those discourses
          and leadership trainings and
          invested all of that time and
          money and, here he is, no
          better off nor more spiritually
          "evolved" as a new 1st initiate!

          That info must have flown
          over the heads of 99% of
          H.I.s. or they simply tuned
          it out and continued on with
          their denial. But, it does make
          one wonder why Klemp would
          undermine the EK initiations.

          But, how spiritually evolved
          or advanced does one have
          to be when compared to EK
          Higher Initiates? LOL! Maybe
          Klemp was having some fun
          with his stooges, and at their
          expense! [end]

          ****************************************
          Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
          To Nonecster: Thank your lucky stars that you didn't invest more time and
          energy into eckankar. As for your relative, I believe that eckist are so
          entranced by their religion that there is nothing you can say. I have seen some
          who read the truth about eckankar; agree that it is full of lies and go right
          back into it because of fear or just plain needing the comfort of belonging to
          something so controlling. I think if you give them the material that shows them
          the truth and then refuse to argue about it, they would have a better chance of
          waking up. Either they take hold to the life line or they don't. Trying to
          force them to see the truth only seems to make them more determined to hold on.
          I wish you and all of yours the best. Please be at peace in knowing that it is
          the responsibility of each of us to make our own path. You are not responsible
          that one or more of yours chooses to wear the chains of eckankar.


          Non eckchains wrote:

          This is exactly what my close relative does, except there is also this constant
          sense of superiority and displaced anger at me for having gone through a period
          when I was younger in which he tried desperately to get me to join, which of
          course involved me asking a lot of questions, not only about eckanakar but other
          religions, mysticism and philosophy. I am a very curious person by nature, and
          this also means that I see through inconsistencies. I was not a very good
          eckist, even though I was having lucid dreams in childhood, long before getting
          involved in the cult. eckankult really did a number on me because of my natural
          propensity towards mysticism and poetic dreaming.

          eckists are really just in a self-imposed state of ignorance. They can't see the
          forest OR the trees, as theirs is a low information hierarchical religion.
          Trying to engage them in any kind of interesting conversation is really
          impossible, even suggesting a book on compassion will get a defensive reaction.

          Thanks for your post. It helped me to affirm and articulate what was in the back
          of my mind, and to understand why being around this eckist irks me so much.
          Unfortunately, when it is family, you can't just walk away as easily. It's hard.

          Noneckster ; )

          prometheus wrote:
          >
          > Hello All,
          > It's so interesting talking
          > to current EK H.I.s... not!
          >
          > What I found to be both
          > odd and comical is that
          > the subject of religion
          > seems to be off-limits
          > and that ECKists are
          > both uninformed
          > and naive about other
          > religions. I'm talking
          > about discussing the
          > nutty Mormons, Old
          > Testament Christians,
          > and Muslims.
          >
          > Or, maybe it's the H.I.s
          > I know since they've
          > been programmed for
          > 30-40, plus, years not
          > to gossip or to say any-
          > thing negative. Nah! If
          > you say anything about
          > about the GOP candidates
          > you can get an ear full...
          > except when you bring
          > up the religious nut cases!
          >
          > Really, I steer away from
          > discussing anything ECK,
          > unless, they bring the topic
          > up and then I simply go
          > along with it and say something
          > nice or neutral like, "Oh,
          > you stayed at the Chanhassen
          > Inn? How did that work
          > out with transportation?"
          >
          > When EKists discuss
          > religion it's like...
          > let's be polite and
          > allow everyone to
          > believe as they choose
          > and not criticize
          > people or their
          > religious beliefs.
          > Except, PT and HK
          > have pointed out
          > that all other religions
          > are 2nd or 4th Plane
          > religions and their
          > "God" is actually
          > the KAL or Satan.
          >
          > So, being nice and
          > polite and giving
          > a person space and
          > all of that is a facade!
          > The real problem is
          > EKists don't want to
          > throw stones when
          > they're in a cult that
          > can be equally criticized
          > for their own short comings.
          >
          > This is the real reason
          > for EKists to avoid any
          > discussions about other
          > religions and their negative,
          > primitive behaviors and
          > beliefs.
          >
          > Plus, wouldn't EKists have
          > to admit (unconsciously)
          > that their beliefs are as
          > mythological, with pretend
          > beings, heavenly places,
          > and a hypocritical conman/
          > leader as do all of those
          > other lesser, phony religions?
          > No, they'd never consciously
          > allow those doubts to resurface.
          > One thing I do know. Everyone
          > has doubts and misgivings
          > and these do surface from
          > time-to-time, especially,
          > as one ages.
          >
          > Yes, Eckists are very judgmental,
          > except, it's usually hidden
          > or rationalized in some way.
          > Look at how RESAs determine
          > who's to be recommended
          > for a pink slip or given
          > a position in the Satsang's
          > hierarchy. It's a judgement
          > call based upon opinions,
          > bias, emotions, personalities,
          > and less to do with "spiritual"
          > standards since they don't
          > have a clue!
          >
          > Another reason why EKists
          > don't want a discussion
          > of other religions is because
          > the conversation might
          > plant some seeds that
          > would grow and open the
          > door for EKists to look at
          > their own religion with new
          > eyes. New insights can lead
          > to a new perspective that
          > would reveal the truth about
          > Eckankar.
          >
          > I will say that EKists can't
          > really make a fair comparison
          > to other religions. It's like
          > being Amish. What other
          > religion compares with theirs?
          > On second thought, all religions
          > have rules and dogma that
          > are edited and reinterpreted
          > by the leaders of the hierarchy.
          >
          > Maybe these are the things
          > that make religions possible:
          > A Leader; Dogma; Rules;
          > Laws; Symbols; a Hierarchy;
          > Ignorant Followers; and Money!
          >
          > The belief in God, and the
          > communication with the
          > Divine Essence is something
          > a person can do on one's own.
          >
          > Isn't that the way it should be?
          >
          > Prometheus
        • prometheus_973
          Hello Non and All, Eckists do tend to get defensive when questioned about the quirky things they ve learned from Klemp. I remember once, not long ago, that I
          Message 4 of 5 , Apr 19, 2012
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            Hello Non and All,
            Eckists do tend to get
            defensive when questioned
            about the quirky things
            they've learned from Klemp.

            I remember once, not long
            ago, that I asked a H.I. what
            the symptoms were for her
            EMF/EMR disease which HK,
            also, suffers from. She got
            very defensive and shut the
            conversation down. I have
            the impression that she
            shared the info with people
            from work and they may
            have questioned her sanity.

            Yes, you can lead a horse
            to water but...

            Actually, Eckists don't want
            to know about other religions
            because they have found
            the "truth." And, they certainly
            don't want to know that
            Twitchell fabricated this
            "truth" to fit his purposes.

            It's too confusing for EKists
            to make comparisons between
            Eckankar and Sant Mat. And,
            EKists aren't allowed to ask
            questions after two years,
            but are discouraged from
            asking questions prior to
            this.

            Besides, EKists are fearful
            and somewhat superstitious.
            If they have questions this
            means they have doubts.
            These might creep into their
            unconscious mind and could
            impede their spiritual progress
            with the Mahanta on the "inner."
            Plus, having doubts or questions
            is a sign of spiritual immaturity,
            therefore, they play-the-game,
            like HK did to get his early
            release from the Mental Institution,
            and act like they have the answers.

            As far as you not being
            a very good Eckist, youse
            guys were one of my pet
            peeves when I was an H.I.
            LOL! The "active" Eckists
            are in the minority and it
            was tough getting chelas
            to even show up for Satsang
            classes. Forget about Open
            Houses or HU Chants! Zero!

            Yes, the conversation with
            Eckists is limiting, but if
            you stick to the New Age
            crap you can find a common
            ground. Many Satsangs will
            have booths at psychic fairs
            and will rub elbows with
            the New Agers selling their
            holistic hodgepodge of
            snake oil remedies. It's a
            good Astral fit for Eckankar.

            Nowadays people are on
            the computer so much there's
            no reason not to have Satsang
            classes or Open Houses, etc.
            online. I'm not sure if Klemp
            has figured that out or if his
            EMF scare tactics have worked,
            after all, and scared his audience
            away. I personally know of
            three H.I.s he scared with
            EMF!

            Prometheus

            "Non"eckchainswrote:
            This is exactly what my close relative does, except there is also this constant
            sense of superiority and displaced anger at me for having gone through a period
            when I was younger in which he tried desperately to get me to join, which of
            course involved me asking a lot of questions, not only about eckanakar but other
            religions, mysticism and philosophy. I am a very curious person by nature, and
            this also means that I see through inconsistencies. I was not a very good
            eckist, even though I was having lucid dreams in childhood, long before getting
            involved in the cult. eckankult really did a number on me because of my natural
            propensity towards mysticism and poetic dreaming.

            eckists are really just in a self-imposed state of ignorance. They can't see the
            forest OR the trees, as theirs is a low information hierarchical religion.
            Trying to engage them in any kind of interesting conversation is really
            impossible, even suggesting a book on compassion will get a defensive reaction.

            Thanks for your post. It helped me to affirm and articulate what was in the back
            of my mind, and to understand why being around this eckist irks me so much.
            Unfortunately, when it is family, you can't just walk away as easily. It's hard.

            Noneckster ; )

            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
            <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hello All,
            > It's so interesting talking
            > to current EK H.I.s... not!
            >
            > What I found to be both
            > odd and comical is that
            > the subject of religion
            > seems to be off-limits
            > and that ECKists are
            > both uninformed
            > and naive about other
            > religions. I'm talking
            > about discussing the
            > nutty Mormons, Old
            > Testament Christians,
            > and Muslims.
            >
            > Or, maybe it's the H.I.s
            > I know since they've
            > been programmed for
            > 30-40, plus, years not
            > to gossip or to say any-
            > thing negative. Nah! If
            > you say anything about
            > about the GOP candidates
            > you can get an ear full...
            > except when you bring
            > up the religious nut cases!
            >
            > Really, I steer away from
            > discussing anything ECK,
            > unless, they bring the topic
            > up and then I simply go
            > along with it and say something
            > nice or neutral like, "Oh,
            > you stayed at the Chanhassen
            > Inn? How did that work
            > out with transportation?"
            >
            > When EKists discuss
            > religion it's like...
            > let's be polite and
            > allow everyone to
            > believe as they choose
            > and not criticize
            > people or their
            > religious beliefs.
            > Except, PT and HK
            > have pointed out
            > that all other religions
            > are 2nd or 4th Plane
            > religions and their
            > "God" is actually
            > the KAL or Satan.
            >
            > So, being nice and
            > polite and giving
            > a person space and
            > all of that is a facade!
            > The real problem is
            > EKists don't want to
            > throw stones when
            > they're in a cult that
            > can be equally criticized
            > for their own short comings.
            >
            > This is the real reason
            > for EKists to avoid any
            > discussions about other
            > religions and their negative,
            > primitive behaviors and
            > beliefs.
            >
            > Plus, wouldn't EKists have
            > to admit (unconsciously)
            > that their beliefs are as
            > mythological, with pretend
            > beings, heavenly places,
            > and a hypocritical conman/
            > leader as do all of those
            > other lesser, phony religions?
            > No, they'd never consciously
            > allow those doubts to resurface.
            > One thing I do know. Everyone
            > has doubts and misgivings
            > and these do surface from
            > time-to-time, especially,
            > as one ages.
            >
            > Yes, Eckists are very judgmental,
            > except, it's usually hidden
            > or rationalized in some way.
            > Look at how RESAs determine
            > who's to be recommended
            > for a pink slip or given
            > a position in the Satsang's
            > hierarchy. It's a judgement
            > call based upon opinions,
            > bias, emotions, personalities,
            > and less to do with "spiritual"
            > standards since they don't
            > have a clue!
            >
            > Another reason why EKists
            > don't want a discussion
            > of other religions is because
            > the conversation might
            > plant some seeds that
            > would grow and open the
            > door for EKists to look at
            > their own religion with new
            > eyes. New insights can lead
            > to a new perspective that
            > would reveal the truth about
            > Eckankar.
            >
            > I will say that EKists can't
            > really make a fair comparison
            > to other religions. It's like
            > being Amish. What other
            > religion compares with theirs?
            > On second thought, all religions
            > have rules and dogma that
            > are edited and reinterpreted
            > by the leaders of the hierarchy.
            >
            > Maybe these are the things
            > that make religions possible:
            > A Leader; Dogma; Rules;
            > Laws; Symbols; a Hierarchy;
            > Ignorant Followers; and Money!
            >
            > The belief in God, and the
            > communication with the
            > Divine Essence is something
            > a person can do on one's own.
            >
            > Isn't that the way it should be?
            >
            > Prometheus
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