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ECKists Wearing Blinders

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello All, It s so interesting talking to current EK H.I.s... not! What I found to be both odd and comical is that the subject of religion seems to be
    Message 1 of 5 , Apr 17, 2012
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      Hello All,
      It's so interesting talking
      to current EK H.I.s... not!

      What I found to be both
      odd and comical is that
      the subject of religion
      seems to be off-limits
      and that ECKists are
      both uninformed
      and naive about other
      religions. I'm talking
      about discussing the
      nutty Mormons, Old
      Testament Christians,
      and Muslims.

      Or, maybe it's the H.I.s
      I know since they've
      been programmed for
      30-40, plus, years not
      to gossip or to say any-
      thing negative. Nah! If
      you say anything about
      about the GOP candidates
      you can get an ear full...
      except when you bring
      up the religious nut cases!

      Really, I steer away from
      discussing anything ECK,
      unless, they bring the topic
      up and then I simply go
      along with it and say something
      nice or neutral like, "Oh,
      you stayed at the Chanhassen
      Inn? How did that work
      out with transportation?"

      When EKists discuss
      religion it's like...
      let's be polite and
      allow everyone to
      believe as they choose
      and not criticize
      people or their
      religious beliefs.
      Except, PT and HK
      have pointed out
      that all other religions
      are 2nd or 4th Plane
      religions and their
      "God" is actually
      the KAL or Satan.

      So, being nice and
      polite and giving
      a person space and
      all of that is a facade!
      The real problem is
      EKists don't want to
      throw stones when
      they're in a cult that
      can be equally criticized
      for their own short comings.

      This is the real reason
      for EKists to avoid any
      discussions about other
      religions and their negative,
      primitive behaviors and
      beliefs.

      Plus, wouldn't EKists have
      to admit (unconsciously)
      that their beliefs are as
      mythological, with pretend
      beings, heavenly places,
      and a hypocritical conman/
      leader as do all of those
      other lesser, phony religions?
      No, they'd never consciously
      allow those doubts to resurface.
      One thing I do know. Everyone
      has doubts and misgivings
      and these do surface from
      time-to-time, especially,
      as one ages.

      Yes, Eckists are very judgmental,
      except, it's usually hidden
      or rationalized in some way.
      Look at how RESAs determine
      who's to be recommended
      for a pink slip or given
      a position in the Satsang's
      hierarchy. It's a judgement
      call based upon opinions,
      bias, emotions, personalities,
      and less to do with "spiritual"
      standards since they don't
      have a clue!

      Another reason why EKists
      don't want a discussion
      of other religions is because
      the conversation might
      plant some seeds that
      would grow and open the
      door for EKists to look at
      their own religion with new
      eyes. New insights can lead
      to a new perspective that
      would reveal the truth about
      Eckankar.

      I will say that EKists can't
      really make a fair comparison
      to other religions. It's like
      being Amish. What other
      religion compares with theirs?
      On second thought, all religions
      have rules and dogma that
      are edited and reinterpreted
      by the leaders of the hierarchy.

      Maybe these are the things
      that make religions possible:
      A Leader; Dogma; Rules;
      Laws; Symbols; a Hierarchy;
      Ignorant Followers; and Money!

      The belief in God, and the
      communication with the
      Divine Essence is something
      a person can do on one's own.

      Isn't that the way it should be?

      Prometheus
    • Non
      This is exactly what my close relative does, except there is also this constant sense of superiority and displaced anger at me for having gone through a period
      Message 2 of 5 , Apr 17, 2012
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        This is exactly what my close relative does, except there is also this constant sense of superiority and displaced anger at me for having gone through a period when I was younger in which he tried desperately to get me to join, which of course involved me asking a lot of questions, not only about eckanakar but other religions, mysticism and philosophy. I am a very curious person by nature, and this also means that I see through inconsistencies. I was not a very good eckist, even though I was having lucid dreams in childhood, long before getting involved in the cult. eckankult really did a number on me because of my natural propensity towards mysticism and poetic dreaming.

        eckists are really just in a self-imposed state of ignorance. They can't see the forest OR the trees, as theirs is a low information hierarchical religion. Trying to engage them in any kind of interesting conversation is really impossible, even suggesting a book on compassion will get a defensive reaction.

        Thanks for your post. It helped me to affirm and articulate what was in the back of my mind, and to understand why being around this eckist irks me so much. Unfortunately, when it is family, you can't just walk away as easily. It's hard.

        Noneckster ; )

        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello All,
        > It's so interesting talking
        > to current EK H.I.s... not!
        >
        > What I found to be both
        > odd and comical is that
        > the subject of religion
        > seems to be off-limits
        > and that ECKists are
        > both uninformed
        > and naive about other
        > religions. I'm talking
        > about discussing the
        > nutty Mormons, Old
        > Testament Christians,
        > and Muslims.
        >
        > Or, maybe it's the H.I.s
        > I know since they've
        > been programmed for
        > 30-40, plus, years not
        > to gossip or to say any-
        > thing negative. Nah! If
        > you say anything about
        > about the GOP candidates
        > you can get an ear full...
        > except when you bring
        > up the religious nut cases!
        >
        > Really, I steer away from
        > discussing anything ECK,
        > unless, they bring the topic
        > up and then I simply go
        > along with it and say something
        > nice or neutral like, "Oh,
        > you stayed at the Chanhassen
        > Inn? How did that work
        > out with transportation?"
        >
        > When EKists discuss
        > religion it's like...
        > let's be polite and
        > allow everyone to
        > believe as they choose
        > and not criticize
        > people or their
        > religious beliefs.
        > Except, PT and HK
        > have pointed out
        > that all other religions
        > are 2nd or 4th Plane
        > religions and their
        > "God" is actually
        > the KAL or Satan.
        >
        > So, being nice and
        > polite and giving
        > a person space and
        > all of that is a facade!
        > The real problem is
        > EKists don't want to
        > throw stones when
        > they're in a cult that
        > can be equally criticized
        > for their own short comings.
        >
        > This is the real reason
        > for EKists to avoid any
        > discussions about other
        > religions and their negative,
        > primitive behaviors and
        > beliefs.
        >
        > Plus, wouldn't EKists have
        > to admit (unconsciously)
        > that their beliefs are as
        > mythological, with pretend
        > beings, heavenly places,
        > and a hypocritical conman/
        > leader as do all of those
        > other lesser, phony religions?
        > No, they'd never consciously
        > allow those doubts to resurface.
        > One thing I do know. Everyone
        > has doubts and misgivings
        > and these do surface from
        > time-to-time, especially,
        > as one ages.
        >
        > Yes, Eckists are very judgmental,
        > except, it's usually hidden
        > or rationalized in some way.
        > Look at how RESAs determine
        > who's to be recommended
        > for a pink slip or given
        > a position in the Satsang's
        > hierarchy. It's a judgement
        > call based upon opinions,
        > bias, emotions, personalities,
        > and less to do with "spiritual"
        > standards since they don't
        > have a clue!
        >
        > Another reason why EKists
        > don't want a discussion
        > of other religions is because
        > the conversation might
        > plant some seeds that
        > would grow and open the
        > door for EKists to look at
        > their own religion with new
        > eyes. New insights can lead
        > to a new perspective that
        > would reveal the truth about
        > Eckankar.
        >
        > I will say that EKists can't
        > really make a fair comparison
        > to other religions. It's like
        > being Amish. What other
        > religion compares with theirs?
        > On second thought, all religions
        > have rules and dogma that
        > are edited and reinterpreted
        > by the leaders of the hierarchy.
        >
        > Maybe these are the things
        > that make religions possible:
        > A Leader; Dogma; Rules;
        > Laws; Symbols; a Hierarchy;
        > Ignorant Followers; and Money!
        >
        > The belief in God, and the
        > communication with the
        > Divine Essence is something
        > a person can do on one's own.
        >
        > Isn't that the way it should be?
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
      • Janice Pfeiffer
        To Nonecster:  Thank your lucky stars that you didn t invest more time and energy into eckankar.  As for your relative, I believe that eckist are so
        Message 3 of 5 , Apr 18, 2012
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          To Nonecster:  Thank your lucky stars that you didn't invest more time and energy into eckankar.  As for your relative, I believe that eckist are so entranced by their religion that there is nothing you can say.  I have seen some who read the truth about eckankar; agree that it is full of lies and go right back into it because of fear or just plain needing the comfort of belonging to something so controlling.  I think if you give them the material that shows them the truth and then refuse to argue about it, they would have a better chance of waking up. Either they take hold to the life line or they don't.   Trying to force them to see the truth only seems to make them more determined to hold on.  I wish you and all of yours the best.  Please be at peace in knowing that it is the responsibility of each of us to make our own path.  You are not responsible that one or more of yours chooses to wear the chains of eckankar. 
          --- On Wed, 4/18/12, Non <eckchains@...> wrote:

          From: Non <eckchains@...>
          Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: ECKists Wearing Blinders
          To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Wednesday, April 18, 2012, 5:39 AM

           
          This is exactly what my close relative does, except there is also this constant sense of superiority and displaced anger at me for having gone through a period when I was younger in which he tried desperately to get me to join, which of course involved me asking a lot of questions, not only about eckanakar but other religions, mysticism and philosophy. I am a very curious person by nature, and this also means that I see through inconsistencies. I was not a very good eckist, even though I was having lucid dreams in childhood, long before getting involved in the cult. eckankult really did a number on me because of my natural propensity towards mysticism and poetic dreaming.

          eckists are really just in a self-imposed state of ignorance. They can't see the forest OR the trees, as theirs is a low information hierarchical religion. Trying to engage them in any kind of interesting conversation is really impossible, even suggesting a book on compassion will get a defensive reaction.

          Thanks for your post. It helped me to affirm and articulate what was in the back of my mind, and to understand why being around this eckist irks me so much. Unfortunately, when it is family, you can't just walk away as easily. It's hard.

          Noneckster ; )

          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello All,
          > It's so interesting talking
          > to current EK H.I.s... not!
          >
          > What I found to be both
          > odd and comical is that
          > the subject of religion
          > seems to be off-limits
          > and that ECKists are
          > both uninformed
          > and naive about other
          > religions. I'm talking
          > about discussing the
          > nutty Mormons, Old
          > Testament Christians,
          > and Muslims.
          >
          > Or, maybe it's the H.I.s
          > I know since they've
          > been programmed for
          > 30-40, plus, years not
          > to gossip or to say any-
          > thing negative. Nah! If
          > you say anything about
          > about the GOP candidates
          > you can get an ear full...
          > except when you bring
          > up the religious nut cases!
          >
          > Really, I steer away from
          > discussing anything ECK,
          > unless, they bring the topic
          > up and then I simply go
          > along with it and say something
          > nice or neutral like, "Oh,
          > you stayed at the Chanhassen
          > Inn? How did that work
          > out with transportation?"
          >
          > When EKists discuss
          > religion it's like...
          > let's be polite and
          > allow everyone to
          > believe as they choose
          > and not criticize
          > people or their
          > religious beliefs.
          > Except, PT and HK
          > have pointed out
          > that all other religions
          > are 2nd or 4th Plane
          > religions and their
          > "God" is actually
          > the KAL or Satan.
          >
          > So, being nice and
          > polite and giving
          > a person space and
          > all of that is a facade!
          > The real problem is
          > EKists don't want to
          > throw stones when
          > they're in a cult that
          > can be equally criticized
          > for their own short comings.
          >
          > This is the real reason
          > for EKists to avoid any
          > discussions about other
          > religions and their negative,
          > primitive behaviors and
          > beliefs.
          >
          > Plus, wouldn't EKists have
          > to admit (unconsciously)
          > that their beliefs are as
          > mythological, with pretend
          > beings, heavenly places,
          > and a hypocritical conman/
          > leader as do all of those
          > other lesser, phony religions?
          > No, they'd never consciously
          > allow those doubts to resurface.
          > One thing I do know. Everyone
          > has doubts and misgivings
          > and these do surface from
          > time-to-time, especially,
          > as one ages.
          >
          > Yes, Eckists are very judgmental,
          > except, it's usually hidden
          > or rationalized in some way.
          > Look at how RESAs determine
          > who's to be recommended
          > for a pink slip or given
          > a position in the Satsang's
          > hierarchy. It's a judgement
          > call based upon opinions,
          > bias, emotions, personalities,
          > and less to do with "spiritual"
          > standards since they don't
          > have a clue!
          >
          > Another reason why EKists
          > don't want a discussion
          > of other religions is because
          > the conversation might
          > plant some seeds that
          > would grow and open the
          > door for EKists to look at
          > their own religion with new
          > eyes. New insights can lead
          > to a new perspective that
          > would reveal the truth about
          > Eckankar.
          >
          > I will say that EKists can't
          > really make a fair comparison
          > to other religions. It's like
          > being Amish. What other
          > religion compares with theirs?
          > On second thought, all religions
          > have rules and dogma that
          > are edited and reinterpreted
          > by the leaders of the hierarchy.
          >
          > Maybe these are the things
          > that make religions possible:
          > A Leader; Dogma; Rules;
          > Laws; Symbols; a Hierarchy;
          > Ignorant Followers; and Money!
          >
          > The belief in God, and the
          > communication with the
          > Divine Essence is something
          > a person can do on one's own.
          >
          > Isn't that the way it should be?
          >
          > Prometheus
          >

        • prometheus_973
          Hello All, I think that the reason there aren t many EKists discovering/uncovering the truth about Eckankar is that they don t read books by non-EK authors.
          Message 4 of 5 , Apr 18, 2012
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            Hello All,
            I think that the reason
            there aren't many EKists
            discovering/uncovering
            the truth about Eckankar
            is that they don't read
            books by non-EK authors.
            They have a rather limited,
            stunted and passive view
            of things. Like Klemp,
            whom they emulate,
            most EKists are more
            talkers than listeners.

            It's so funny when one
            looks at the list of books
            and movies the average
            H.I. will recommend.
            "Animal Angels" and
            other childish, immature
            or antiseptic material
            is common place.

            Where's the EK book
            on "People Angels"
            where non-Eckists
            (common people),
            as with animals, are
            instruments of the
            Divine? I know it happens
            because non-EKists
            have written dozens
            of books on the subject.

            Many H.I.s are simply
            stuck in the past along
            with Klemp. It's sad that
            they've given up seeking
            the Truth. As independent,
            powerful and unique Souls,
            as we all are, there should
            be some desire to want
            more than what Klemp
            has delivered upon via
            empty promises that are
            equivalent to what other
            religions conmen have
            promised!

            The "spiritual" posers,
            like Klemp, create a need
            for codependence. EKists
            have taken the bait and
            have fallen into the trap
            as they beseech the
            Mahanta to make common
            place decisions for them
            on a daily basis.

            Yet, Klemp has no knowledge
            of these requests, unless,
            informed so by snail-mail
            correspondence. Not much
            "Inner Communication"
            is there? The Catch-22 is
            that EKists can use the mind
            to dream or imagine their
            reality and to "prove" the
            promises and the dogma.
            This is what every other
            religion does and, yet, EKists
            refuse to acknowledge the
            flaws and the deceptions.

            Maybe, Eckankar is the religion
            closest to their beliefs and they
            accept the good with the bad
            since nothing is perfect (in the
            lower worlds). They need to belong
            to a group of like minded people
            who won't laugh at them or think
            they're crazy cultists. People are
            social animals and Eckankar gives
            EKists something to do (busy
            work of PR and sales) and an
            excuse to get together... to act
            important, spiritually evolved,
            and to look for a "love" connection.

            Really, it's nicer and easier to
            follow the crowd and the well
            worn path. Self-mastery and
            responsibility requires more
            effort and courage.... and more
            awareness of tests, trials and traps.

            Prometheus
            p.s. Around 2000-2001 Klemp
            mentioned that there were
            some people coming into
            Eckankar (1st initiates) that
            were more spiritually advanced
            than some H.I.s (5-9). I was
            involved with a Roundtable
            discussion at the time and
            a lower initiate pointed this
            HK quote out to a H.I. (5-6th)
            Wow! The H.I. got really hot!

            Then again, can you blame
            this H.I. when he's jumped
            through all of the hoops and
            took all those discourses
            and leadership trainings and
            invested all of that time and
            money and, here he is, no
            better off nor more spiritually
            "evolved" as a new 1st initiate!

            That info must have flown
            over the heads of 99% of
            H.I.s. or they simply tuned
            it out and continued on with
            their denial. But, it does make
            one wonder why Klemp would
            undermine the EK initiations.

            But, how spiritually evolved
            or advanced does one have
            to be when compared to EK
            Higher Initiates? LOL! Maybe
            Klemp was having some fun
            with his stooges, and at their
            expense! [end]

            ****************************************
            Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
            To Nonecster: Thank your lucky stars that you didn't invest more time and
            energy into eckankar. As for your relative, I believe that eckist are so
            entranced by their religion that there is nothing you can say. I have seen some
            who read the truth about eckankar; agree that it is full of lies and go right
            back into it because of fear or just plain needing the comfort of belonging to
            something so controlling. I think if you give them the material that shows them
            the truth and then refuse to argue about it, they would have a better chance of
            waking up. Either they take hold to the life line or they don't. Trying to
            force them to see the truth only seems to make them more determined to hold on.
            I wish you and all of yours the best. Please be at peace in knowing that it is
            the responsibility of each of us to make our own path. You are not responsible
            that one or more of yours chooses to wear the chains of eckankar.


            Non eckchains wrote:

            This is exactly what my close relative does, except there is also this constant
            sense of superiority and displaced anger at me for having gone through a period
            when I was younger in which he tried desperately to get me to join, which of
            course involved me asking a lot of questions, not only about eckanakar but other
            religions, mysticism and philosophy. I am a very curious person by nature, and
            this also means that I see through inconsistencies. I was not a very good
            eckist, even though I was having lucid dreams in childhood, long before getting
            involved in the cult. eckankult really did a number on me because of my natural
            propensity towards mysticism and poetic dreaming.

            eckists are really just in a self-imposed state of ignorance. They can't see the
            forest OR the trees, as theirs is a low information hierarchical religion.
            Trying to engage them in any kind of interesting conversation is really
            impossible, even suggesting a book on compassion will get a defensive reaction.

            Thanks for your post. It helped me to affirm and articulate what was in the back
            of my mind, and to understand why being around this eckist irks me so much.
            Unfortunately, when it is family, you can't just walk away as easily. It's hard.

            Noneckster ; )

            prometheus wrote:
            >
            > Hello All,
            > It's so interesting talking
            > to current EK H.I.s... not!
            >
            > What I found to be both
            > odd and comical is that
            > the subject of religion
            > seems to be off-limits
            > and that ECKists are
            > both uninformed
            > and naive about other
            > religions. I'm talking
            > about discussing the
            > nutty Mormons, Old
            > Testament Christians,
            > and Muslims.
            >
            > Or, maybe it's the H.I.s
            > I know since they've
            > been programmed for
            > 30-40, plus, years not
            > to gossip or to say any-
            > thing negative. Nah! If
            > you say anything about
            > about the GOP candidates
            > you can get an ear full...
            > except when you bring
            > up the religious nut cases!
            >
            > Really, I steer away from
            > discussing anything ECK,
            > unless, they bring the topic
            > up and then I simply go
            > along with it and say something
            > nice or neutral like, "Oh,
            > you stayed at the Chanhassen
            > Inn? How did that work
            > out with transportation?"
            >
            > When EKists discuss
            > religion it's like...
            > let's be polite and
            > allow everyone to
            > believe as they choose
            > and not criticize
            > people or their
            > religious beliefs.
            > Except, PT and HK
            > have pointed out
            > that all other religions
            > are 2nd or 4th Plane
            > religions and their
            > "God" is actually
            > the KAL or Satan.
            >
            > So, being nice and
            > polite and giving
            > a person space and
            > all of that is a facade!
            > The real problem is
            > EKists don't want to
            > throw stones when
            > they're in a cult that
            > can be equally criticized
            > for their own short comings.
            >
            > This is the real reason
            > for EKists to avoid any
            > discussions about other
            > religions and their negative,
            > primitive behaviors and
            > beliefs.
            >
            > Plus, wouldn't EKists have
            > to admit (unconsciously)
            > that their beliefs are as
            > mythological, with pretend
            > beings, heavenly places,
            > and a hypocritical conman/
            > leader as do all of those
            > other lesser, phony religions?
            > No, they'd never consciously
            > allow those doubts to resurface.
            > One thing I do know. Everyone
            > has doubts and misgivings
            > and these do surface from
            > time-to-time, especially,
            > as one ages.
            >
            > Yes, Eckists are very judgmental,
            > except, it's usually hidden
            > or rationalized in some way.
            > Look at how RESAs determine
            > who's to be recommended
            > for a pink slip or given
            > a position in the Satsang's
            > hierarchy. It's a judgement
            > call based upon opinions,
            > bias, emotions, personalities,
            > and less to do with "spiritual"
            > standards since they don't
            > have a clue!
            >
            > Another reason why EKists
            > don't want a discussion
            > of other religions is because
            > the conversation might
            > plant some seeds that
            > would grow and open the
            > door for EKists to look at
            > their own religion with new
            > eyes. New insights can lead
            > to a new perspective that
            > would reveal the truth about
            > Eckankar.
            >
            > I will say that EKists can't
            > really make a fair comparison
            > to other religions. It's like
            > being Amish. What other
            > religion compares with theirs?
            > On second thought, all religions
            > have rules and dogma that
            > are edited and reinterpreted
            > by the leaders of the hierarchy.
            >
            > Maybe these are the things
            > that make religions possible:
            > A Leader; Dogma; Rules;
            > Laws; Symbols; a Hierarchy;
            > Ignorant Followers; and Money!
            >
            > The belief in God, and the
            > communication with the
            > Divine Essence is something
            > a person can do on one's own.
            >
            > Isn't that the way it should be?
            >
            > Prometheus
          • prometheus_973
            Hello Non and All, Eckists do tend to get defensive when questioned about the quirky things they ve learned from Klemp. I remember once, not long ago, that I
            Message 5 of 5 , Apr 19, 2012
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              Hello Non and All,
              Eckists do tend to get
              defensive when questioned
              about the quirky things
              they've learned from Klemp.

              I remember once, not long
              ago, that I asked a H.I. what
              the symptoms were for her
              EMF/EMR disease which HK,
              also, suffers from. She got
              very defensive and shut the
              conversation down. I have
              the impression that she
              shared the info with people
              from work and they may
              have questioned her sanity.

              Yes, you can lead a horse
              to water but...

              Actually, Eckists don't want
              to know about other religions
              because they have found
              the "truth." And, they certainly
              don't want to know that
              Twitchell fabricated this
              "truth" to fit his purposes.

              It's too confusing for EKists
              to make comparisons between
              Eckankar and Sant Mat. And,
              EKists aren't allowed to ask
              questions after two years,
              but are discouraged from
              asking questions prior to
              this.

              Besides, EKists are fearful
              and somewhat superstitious.
              If they have questions this
              means they have doubts.
              These might creep into their
              unconscious mind and could
              impede their spiritual progress
              with the Mahanta on the "inner."
              Plus, having doubts or questions
              is a sign of spiritual immaturity,
              therefore, they play-the-game,
              like HK did to get his early
              release from the Mental Institution,
              and act like they have the answers.

              As far as you not being
              a very good Eckist, youse
              guys were one of my pet
              peeves when I was an H.I.
              LOL! The "active" Eckists
              are in the minority and it
              was tough getting chelas
              to even show up for Satsang
              classes. Forget about Open
              Houses or HU Chants! Zero!

              Yes, the conversation with
              Eckists is limiting, but if
              you stick to the New Age
              crap you can find a common
              ground. Many Satsangs will
              have booths at psychic fairs
              and will rub elbows with
              the New Agers selling their
              holistic hodgepodge of
              snake oil remedies. It's a
              good Astral fit for Eckankar.

              Nowadays people are on
              the computer so much there's
              no reason not to have Satsang
              classes or Open Houses, etc.
              online. I'm not sure if Klemp
              has figured that out or if his
              EMF scare tactics have worked,
              after all, and scared his audience
              away. I personally know of
              three H.I.s he scared with
              EMF!

              Prometheus

              "Non"eckchainswrote:
              This is exactly what my close relative does, except there is also this constant
              sense of superiority and displaced anger at me for having gone through a period
              when I was younger in which he tried desperately to get me to join, which of
              course involved me asking a lot of questions, not only about eckanakar but other
              religions, mysticism and philosophy. I am a very curious person by nature, and
              this also means that I see through inconsistencies. I was not a very good
              eckist, even though I was having lucid dreams in childhood, long before getting
              involved in the cult. eckankult really did a number on me because of my natural
              propensity towards mysticism and poetic dreaming.

              eckists are really just in a self-imposed state of ignorance. They can't see the
              forest OR the trees, as theirs is a low information hierarchical religion.
              Trying to engage them in any kind of interesting conversation is really
              impossible, even suggesting a book on compassion will get a defensive reaction.

              Thanks for your post. It helped me to affirm and articulate what was in the back
              of my mind, and to understand why being around this eckist irks me so much.
              Unfortunately, when it is family, you can't just walk away as easily. It's hard.

              Noneckster ; )

              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
              <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hello All,
              > It's so interesting talking
              > to current EK H.I.s... not!
              >
              > What I found to be both
              > odd and comical is that
              > the subject of religion
              > seems to be off-limits
              > and that ECKists are
              > both uninformed
              > and naive about other
              > religions. I'm talking
              > about discussing the
              > nutty Mormons, Old
              > Testament Christians,
              > and Muslims.
              >
              > Or, maybe it's the H.I.s
              > I know since they've
              > been programmed for
              > 30-40, plus, years not
              > to gossip or to say any-
              > thing negative. Nah! If
              > you say anything about
              > about the GOP candidates
              > you can get an ear full...
              > except when you bring
              > up the religious nut cases!
              >
              > Really, I steer away from
              > discussing anything ECK,
              > unless, they bring the topic
              > up and then I simply go
              > along with it and say something
              > nice or neutral like, "Oh,
              > you stayed at the Chanhassen
              > Inn? How did that work
              > out with transportation?"
              >
              > When EKists discuss
              > religion it's like...
              > let's be polite and
              > allow everyone to
              > believe as they choose
              > and not criticize
              > people or their
              > religious beliefs.
              > Except, PT and HK
              > have pointed out
              > that all other religions
              > are 2nd or 4th Plane
              > religions and their
              > "God" is actually
              > the KAL or Satan.
              >
              > So, being nice and
              > polite and giving
              > a person space and
              > all of that is a facade!
              > The real problem is
              > EKists don't want to
              > throw stones when
              > they're in a cult that
              > can be equally criticized
              > for their own short comings.
              >
              > This is the real reason
              > for EKists to avoid any
              > discussions about other
              > religions and their negative,
              > primitive behaviors and
              > beliefs.
              >
              > Plus, wouldn't EKists have
              > to admit (unconsciously)
              > that their beliefs are as
              > mythological, with pretend
              > beings, heavenly places,
              > and a hypocritical conman/
              > leader as do all of those
              > other lesser, phony religions?
              > No, they'd never consciously
              > allow those doubts to resurface.
              > One thing I do know. Everyone
              > has doubts and misgivings
              > and these do surface from
              > time-to-time, especially,
              > as one ages.
              >
              > Yes, Eckists are very judgmental,
              > except, it's usually hidden
              > or rationalized in some way.
              > Look at how RESAs determine
              > who's to be recommended
              > for a pink slip or given
              > a position in the Satsang's
              > hierarchy. It's a judgement
              > call based upon opinions,
              > bias, emotions, personalities,
              > and less to do with "spiritual"
              > standards since they don't
              > have a clue!
              >
              > Another reason why EKists
              > don't want a discussion
              > of other religions is because
              > the conversation might
              > plant some seeds that
              > would grow and open the
              > door for EKists to look at
              > their own religion with new
              > eyes. New insights can lead
              > to a new perspective that
              > would reveal the truth about
              > Eckankar.
              >
              > I will say that EKists can't
              > really make a fair comparison
              > to other religions. It's like
              > being Amish. What other
              > religion compares with theirs?
              > On second thought, all religions
              > have rules and dogma that
              > are edited and reinterpreted
              > by the leaders of the hierarchy.
              >
              > Maybe these are the things
              > that make religions possible:
              > A Leader; Dogma; Rules;
              > Laws; Symbols; a Hierarchy;
              > Ignorant Followers; and Money!
              >
              > The belief in God, and the
              > communication with the
              > Divine Essence is something
              > a person can do on one's own.
              >
              > Isn't that the way it should be?
              >
              > Prometheus
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