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Re: Fw: The Modern Prophet's 20/20 Hindsight Prophecies

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello Etznab and All, First, I should make it clear that, IMO, the sources of Twitchell s Eckankar fraud, Sant Mat, is itself a fraudulent religion.
    Message 1 of 3 , Mar 19, 2012
      Hello Etznab and All,
      First, I should make it
      clear that, IMO, the sources
      of Twitchell's Eckankar
      fraud, Sant Mat, is itself
      a fraudulent religion.

      "Spiritual" Hierarchies
      are frauds. It's limiting
      and is of a reversed mind-
      set. In actuality it's: As
      Below, So Above! After
      all, men created God in
      their own image!

      Yes, this whole Inner/Outer
      Master thing is a Catch-22
      scam/hoax. In Eckankar,
      once the individual has
      reached the 5th initiation
      their consciousness is,
      supposedly, established
      on the Soul Plane. However,
      as Soul they still need to
      evolve... and return to the
      Home (Ocean of Love and
      Mercy) that they were booted
      from... or so the story goes.
      It's a revamp of the Garden
      of Eden story for Soul versus
      the physical body and PT's
      remake with Adom and Ede
      (see Polarians).

      Anyway, most of these
      pseudo-Masters hide away...
      like Klemp. They don't want
      too much public exposure
      because it would ruin the
      mental image of them that
      their chelas have created via
      religious dogma. HK's arrested
      social development causes
      him to make inappropriate
      comments and assumptions.

      True, Klemp has said that
      he's "not perfect," but that
      disclaimer is for those chelas
      who have seen him and Joan
      at the ESC, the Eden Prairie
      Mall or at the chiropractor's
      office. Of course these chelas
      are in awe and for them it's
      like seeing royalty. Plus,
      Klemp's disclaimer is to
      excuse his stuttering, note
      card fumbling, and inappropriate
      comments about Joan when
      onstage giving a talk, and
      is meant for those longtime
      H.I.s who aren't quite so
      enamored with him or his
      Story Telling, RESAs, and
      especially his ESC Guidelines.

      However, As Soul aren't
      we all equal? Of course!

      Therefore, how is it
      that "a Master's Soul"
      is greater than a non-
      Master's Soul? It's not!
      But, that's what dogma
      is for. That's the trap!
      It's that stick and carrot
      thing with "initiations"
      (i.e. short comings, guilt,
      shame, hopes, promises,
      goals, desires) that keeps
      any and all religions going
      and the higher ups living
      smug, care free, and well.

      The only difference, it would
      seem, between the two Souls,
      is that on the "Outer" (where
      imperfection, blatantly, exists)
      the Master Soul has "realized"
      their divinity... or so they
      say and act. On the INNER
      we have to take their word
      for what they claim. Unless
      our minds "prove" their claims
      for us in our dreams. That
      kind of reminds me of Faquir
      Chand (SIC?). He was a Sant
      Mat Master and he said that
      he wasn't aware of the dreams
      his chelas had with him in
      them. He was honest. He
      knew that the mind would
      create what it desired and
      would do so in all kinds of

      Realization, of course,
      is a mental exercise with
      feelings, self-awareness
      and visualizations. Without
      the mind/brain functions
      nothing would be accomplished,
      experienced, created, or
      imagined. For many, this
      mental experience becomes
      "spiritual" whether accurate
      or not.


      Etznab wrote:
      "I always appreciate reading others opinions about Eckankar as I have mine too;
      as a 30+ year member I have MANY questions about the slow and deliberate
      guidance away from the inner to me, as in Harold. [....]"

      "Inner Master" (by various other names) is a very popular and common item.
      "Living Master" exists in various other forms, too - depending on religion /

      I wonder if this thing between "Inner" and "Outer" Master is the big problem,
      because writings I have see try to have it both ways. That the two are and are
      not the same.

      Julian Johnson in his 1939 book The Path Of The Masters illustrated it this way:


      There is one quality of the great Masters which I hesitate to write
      down here because it is so difficult to avoid misunderstanding on
      this subject; yet it must be written. It is a fact that there is no
      difference between the real saint, or Master, and the supreme being himself,
      that is, there is no difference, except that a saint is
      humanly embodied and is to some extent limited by that embodiment.


      I believe Paul Twitchell and Harold Klemp illustrated The Living Eck Master was
      a "vehicle" for the Mahanta. And I believe Paul Twitchell also attributed
      "limitation" to the "Living Eck Master".

      "The historical Mahanta is the bodily manifestation of the eternal Mahanta and
      is the aspect in which the Divine One becomes incarnate in human form. The
      historical Mahanta possesses the same qualities as
      the Divine One in Its second aspect, and manifests them as far as they can be
      manifested within the limitations of human nature within a definite point in

      - Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad, Book One, by Paul Twitchell, p. 33

      IMO that reference suggests "limitations of human nature" and it does not
      suggest the historical Mahanta possesses qualities same as the Divine One in Its
      first aspect. No. It mentions second aspect - and even then "... manifests them
      as far as they can be manifested within the limitations of human nature ... ."

      In the Shariyat (same page) Paul illustrated what he called the triple aspects
      of the Sugmad which are the three bodies of the Mahanta.

      "The three bodies of the Mahanta: the absolute primordial, the eternal Mahanta,
      called the clear voice of God, which dwells in the heart of the Ocean of Love
      and Mercy; second, the body of glory; the ECK, the Cosmic Spirit, the Sound
      Current that which is all life, giving existence to all things; third, is the
      body of manifestation, the transformation, the historical Mahanta, the Living
      ECK Master in every age, who is the Eternal One, the bodily manifestation of the

      - Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad, Book One, by Paul Twitchell, p. 33

      Some more about this can be found after searching The Far Contry for the word


      The rest of the paragraph by Julian Johnson (that I gave at beginning of this
      post) reads:

      ... And when we say that the supreme one is embodied in this man whom we call a
      saint, let no one be troubled. We do not mean to say that the whole of the
      supreme one is so embodied. We could not be accused of suggesting that the
      infinite one has abandoned the presidency of the universe and enclosed his
      entire godhood in this one poor human body! The supreme one is the infinite,
      limitless whole of spiritual existence. It would be absurd to suggest that the
      universal soul of all souls, of all worlds, could be wholly centered in and
      limited to this one physical body. But it is nevertheless true that the supreme
      soul has taken form in this body.


      It looks to me like this having it both ways is troublesome.

      Spiritual leaders may have claimed not to be God (including Jesus), but many of
      the followers made a God out of them nonetheless. Paul Twitchell, Darwin Gross
      and Harold Klemp all became "Godmen". And before Paul T. there was (according to
      Paul Twitchell) a "Godman" called Rebazar Tarzs; even though the later oft
      appears animated by the writings of other authors.

      It seems to me that some people have an initial tendency to worship anything
      that appears to be a "God on Earth". However, these "Gods" on Earth (IMO) have
      drawn heavily from words and writings of other people before their time.
      Including books written by other people.

      Recently I read an article about a man who claimed to be a war hero of some
      kind, but he made it up. They were talking about whether or not the man should
      be punished. But why did the man do it? Common sense tells me he did it to
      impress public opinion.

      Supreme Court to hear arguments on whether a lie is protected speech


      prometheus wrote:
      ----- Forwarded Message -----

      From: morningstara <aleaz808@...

      To: prometheus_973

      Subject: Re: The Modern Prophet's 20/20 Hindsight Prophecies
      I always appreciate reading others opinions about Eckankar as I have mine
      too;as a 30+ year member I have MANY questions about the slow and deliberate
      guidance away from the inner to me, as in Harold. When HK took over Eckankar he
      cleaned out the barn poop--in his funny story of the kid 'there's a pony in here
      someplace' digging in horse dug happily looking for the pony when the reason he
      was there was to make him miserable...He also stated that he could FALL on his
      face tomorrow and to NEVER get stuck on him as a person...in 1981. But at the
      2011 WW, he stated quite the opposite--it was all personal credit being taken
      for chelas experiences---which hit me hard!

      Prometheus...the inner experiences are valid. I had them BEFORE eckankar. If i
      leave I will still have them. Masters are guides not to be worshipped. so...if
      HK starts wanting that adoration all powerful thing...I'm gone. Jury's still


      prometheus_973@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Yes it's true! Recently
      > > Harold Klemp the self-
      > > proclaimed Modern
      > > Prophet of ECKankar
      > > finally came out of his
      > > cave, looked around,
      > > saw his own shadow,
      > > made a prophecy for
      > > a March 2012 EK pub
      > > and then returned to
      > > his cave. Or, he emailed
      > > it in to the ESC from
      > > his vacation condo!
      > >
      > > "The world faces nearly
      > > unprecedented changes.
      > >
      > > They come to uplift
      > > people's consciousness
      > > and there will be great
      > > disruption in 'business
      > > as usual.'
      > >
      > > Society will be shaken."
      > >
      > >
      > > Duh! Where has Klemp
      > > been for the last few
      > > years?
      > >
      > > Does Klemp have his
      > > head stuck in the
      > > sand (on a private
      > > beach) like an ostrich?
      > > How oblivious! Most
      > > of these "changes"
      > > have already taken
      > > place! He's reporting
      > > old news "as if" it's
      > > going to happen in
      > > the future! HK is once
      > > again "playing the game."
      > > Maybe he doesn't think
      > > H.I.s will notice the
      > > misspeak? Or, maybe,
      > > Klemp sees the remark
      > > as being apropos to
      > > the future of ECKankar.
      > >
      > > However, it does make
      > > one wonder about Klemp's
      > > mental health which seems
      > > to be slipping. HK's own
      > > consciousness/awareness
      > > is now questionable. Is
      > > this another case of the
      > > blind leading the blind?
      > > It seems so! How many
      > > Eckists have now awakened
      > > and have realized that
      > > Klemp had fallen or that
      > > he never was what he has
      > > claimed?
      > >
      > > I predict that there will be
      > > more unrest and disruption
      > > within the ECK ranks, but
      > > that most will seek solace
      > > in their pretend world on
      > > the "inner."
      > >
      > > Prometheus
      > >
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