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Re: I'm Surprised That Klemp (ECKankar) Isn't Suing Them!

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  • Tyson
    ... Eckankar,Shraosha,Dhunnami and any that revere Paul,Harold or Darwin, are just new age trancendental meditation with a fictional hirarchy whose purpose has
    Message 1 of 8 , Feb 22, 2012
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      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Tyson" <abunjoroge@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Hello Allen and All,
      > > You have, obviously, taken
      > > and swallowed the bait along
      > > with the hook, line, and sinker.
      > > You've got blinders on, which
      > > is curious. Perhaps you became
      > > or saw yourself disenfranchised
      > > regarding higher initiations while
      > > under the Klempster?
      > >
      > > Anyway, I'll respond to your
      > > comments below:
      > >
      > >
      > > allen wrote:
      > > Hello Prometheus and the whole group.
      > >
      > > First off I wanted to thank you for letting me express my self even though I
      > > know many of you if not all of you don't agree with me!
      > >
      > > ME: True.
      > >
      > > A:
      > > Anyway this is a good dialog and I think you for at least entertaining my
      > > viewpoint.
      > >
      > > ME: I find your dialog (diatribe)
      > > to be unentertaining, redundant
      > > and tedious.
      > >
      > > A:
      > > I do have Difficulties of Becoming the living ECK master.
      > > I have Ford's book. Ect.
      > >
      > > ME: When's the last time you "read"
      > > these books? How about "The Path
      > > of the Masters" by Julian P. Johnson?
      > >
      > > A:
      > > Most of the criticism I have seen about Paul Twitchell I find quite amusing.
      > > This is what happens when we fail to learn Soul Travel or what AKATHA calls
      > > Sahaji and we try and figure out this world through our physical senses. From
      > > the lower states of consciousness illusion rains supreme and we fall for it like
      > > a child falls for a cheap magic show in Vegas.
      > >
      > > ME: Who says that I, or others
      > > on this site, who are critical of
      > > your narrow, judgmental, and
      > > elitist views don't know how to
      > > Soul travel? How do you "know"
      > > what Akatha (i.e. God, Whatever)
      > > calls anything or says? Funny that
      > > you used the analogy of a cheap
      > > magic show in Vegas... it's a
      > > Freudian slip that points out that
      > > you are caught up with the illusion
      > > of your beliefs.
      > >
      > > A:
      > > I would also like to say that the idea that Paul Twitchell copied most of his
      > > stuff from other Authors is ridiculous.
      > >
      > > ME: That's a really close-minded
      > > remark. This site, in the links,
      > > (and files if you are a site member)
      > > has info showing PT's books with
      > > plagiarisms. Too bad you don't have
      > > a copy of The Path of the Masters
      > > but I think someone put it up in pdf
      > > in the links. Therefore, there's actual
      > > proof that your hero was a liar, thief,
      > > and poser!
      > >
      > >
      > > A:
      > > All one has to do is read all his books, discourses articles and listen to all
      > > his tapes and one realizes that he produced an amazing amount of materials over
      > > a very short time.
      > >
      > > ME: Don't be so foolish! PT copied
      > > and paraphrased other peoples
      > > info, experiences, and research.
      > > He substituted and changed names,
      > > words, letters, added, omitted, etc.,
      > > etc. This was all pointed out in Ford's
      > > book. Thus, either you did a speed
      > > read, couldn't handle the truth and
      > > are in denial like most ECKists,
      > > or you're lying about having read
      > > "Confessions of a God-Seeker."
      > >
      > > A:
      > > Paul called Eckankar the Ancient Science of Soul Travel.
      > > Any Scientist will tell you that Science is based on truth and not on
      > > originality!
      > >
      > > ME: No, not really. Science is
      > > based upon empirical evidence,
      > > proven theories, and being able
      > > to reproduce results. According
      > > to your view Edison wasn't very
      > > original.
      > >
      > > A:
      > > Ironically Paul Twitchell still managed to be one of the most original thinkers
      > > ever to grace this dark planet!
      > >
      > >
      > > ME: It's ironical that you would
      > > use "ironically" when promoting
      > > a conman, liar, wannabe, and
      > > plagiarist! BTW- I've got a bridge
      > > that I'd like to sell you.
      > >
      > >
      > > A:
      > > Science builds upon Truth. So since truth is contained EVERYWHERE mixed with
      > > UNTRUTH to say that Paul copied from others is ridiculous since all Science
      > > copies from the universal truth!
      > >
      > > ME: Actually Twit used, mostly,
      > > half-truths and fiction. However,
      > > when someone uses word for word
      > > paragraphs, like Twit, I'd say that
      > > he "copied." If you ever attended
      > > college you'd know that plagiarism
      > > was unethical and not allowed.
      > > It's unoriginal, lazy and dishonest
      > > to use someone else's words, research,
      > > experiences, and thoughts and,
      > > especially, not give them credit
      > > in a footnote.
      > >
      > > A:
      > > As far as Paul's tendency to distort "reality" all I can say is I have had
      > > numerous inner experiences with him and Sri Kahtifji through the spiritual
      > > Exercises of AKATHA and these types of things are useless to argue since how
      > > could you possibly understand or known my experiences? You do not. No fault of
      > > your own of course.
      > >
      > >
      > > ME: You're comments are
      > > arrogant (vain and Astral)!
      > > It's a two-way street. You
      > > don't know of my experiences
      > > either. But I do know that
      > > Kahtif is a phony and poser.
      > > His S.E.s are no more "spiritual"
      > > or enlightening as anyone
      > > else's. It's subjective and
      > > illusionistic and pure fantasy.
      > > Your fault is not having
      > > an open mind. Your need
      > > is to be be codependent.
      > > You sound like one of Klemp's
      > > ECKists!
      > >
      > > A:
      > > If Paul Twitchell did change his stories around how does that in any way
      > > invalidate who he was spiritually.
      > >
      > >
      > > ME: PT did change his stories.
      > > He was a liar and a manipulator
      > > and, it seems, a spiritual wannabe.
      > >
      > > If someone cannot live a truthful
      > > life, then, they are living a lie.
      > >
      > > Plus, let me point this out.
      > > In "Difficulties Of Becoming
      > > The Living ECK Master" PT
      > > states (pgs. 52-56) that when
      > > in the Navy during WWII he
      > > created chaos and problems
      > > with his paperwork and played
      > > mental and psychological
      > > games with people in order
      > > to get out of work or duty
      > > assignments. This was during
      > > war time! These disruptions
      > > are not only narcissistic but
      > > are what the enemy would do...
      > > not someone who had claimed
      > > to have received the 2nd initiation
      > > in 1923 and who, supposedly,
      > > had visitations with Inner Masters
      > > and was destined as a "spiritual"
      > > master. Nope! Twitchell was
      > > always a narcissist and liar first,
      > > a conman & self-promoter
      > > second, and maybe, a spiritual
      > > seeker third.
      > >
      > >
      > > A:
      > > Again the analogy of a virtuoso violinist.
      > > If a virtuoso violinist tells you he is going to give a recital in Carnegie Hall
      > > on the 23rd of May, and you find out later no such concert is planed on such a
      > > dateĀ… does that make him any less talented as a violinist? Does that make his
      > > music bad? Does that mean his notes are out of tune of sour?
      > >
      > >
      > > ME: First, I don't buy your analogy.
      > > That's like a "Christian" using the
      > > Bible to prove a point because it's
      > > "the word of God." I don't buy that
      > > either! BTW- Where's Mozart fit-in?
      > > Did he take lessons?
      > >
      > > You, as Soul, is the only teacher
      > > you need, in conjunction with Spirit.
      > >
      > > A:
      > > Paul Twitchell was definitely an enigma and a mystery but his spiritual
      > > ability's and his ability to express truth where amazing.
      > >
      > >
      > > ME: Reread Ford's book... slowly
      > > this time. Digest it. Contemplate/
      > > Meditate upon it. Take your time...
      > > weeks. However, don't bother with
      > > the last 1/4 of the book. Paul was
      > > no mystery, although, that's what
      > > he was trying to portray. Do you
      > > have a copy of the SHARIYAT 1?
      > > Look at the index - Mahanta, birth
      > > of. Paul rewrote it so that he was
      > > adopted and was, supposedly, born
      > > on a riverboat and left to drift like
      > > Moses.
      > >
      > > A:
      > > Has anyone hear actually read Paul's works carefully with an effort to
      > > understand what he was saying? Reading the Tigers Fang, Dialogs with the
      > > Master, The Far Country, letters to Gail 1, 2, and 3 and listening to a few of
      > > his lecture tapes and its hard for me to understand how anyone could miss Paul
      > > Twitchell's amazing gift at expressing great truths!
      > >
      > > ME: Yes! The Tiger's Fang was
      > > fictionalized and embellished.
      > > This is why Kirpal Singh had
      > > problems with it. Don't you read?
      > > There is a letter from Kirpal
      > > stating this and why Kirpal
      > > had the falling out with Twit
      > > and still had the manuscript
      > > in 1966.
      > >
      > > A:
      > > I feel the same way about Sri Kahtifji after listening to him speak for hours on
      > > end and reading his works.
      > >
      > >
      > > ME: You were brainwashed.
      > > This is a typical cult brainwashing
      > > technique to wear you down.
      > > Afterwards, you feel dazed
      > > and attribute this to having
      > > Soul traveled to higher spiritual
      > > realms.
      > >
      > > A:
      > > Yes its sad what Darwin and especially Harold have done to Eckankar since 1971.
      > > But Sri Paul Twitchell was not the problem. Sri Kahtifji is not the problem.
      > > Blame it on Harold Klemp if you must blame it on anyone. He has ruined
      > > something special.
      > >
      > > ME: Twitchell started the whole
      > > scam so he was the problem!
      > > Kahtif is as much a poser as
      > > is Klemp. No, I blame it on Paul
      > > and Gail. Mostly Gail because
      > > she encouraged Paul do it in
      > > order to make the big bucks
      > > that she wanted.
      > >
      > > A:
      > > But its back as AKATHA and for that I am great full.
      > > I know most of you if not all of you will disagree with me on most if not all of
      > > this.
      > >
      > >
      > > ME: True! Been there, done that,
      > > bought the books, tee shirt, and
      > > even the coffee mug!
      > >
      > > A:
      > > Such paradoxes of the universe make life very interesting. Non of you know the
      > > experiences I have had so its hard for you to understand my viewpoint on this.
      > > But in a nut shell if point (A) is true and point (B) is also true point (A) can
      > > not invalidate point (B).
      > >
      > >
      > > ME: Bullshit! Twit used the paradox
      > > ploy to twist the truth and you've merely
      > > bought into it. He's playing a game...
      > > (a shell game) and the joke's on you.
      > >
      > > A:
      > > And this is what we call a paradox or another way of putting it a
      > > misunderstanding of reality!
      > >
      > > ME: You're in denial.
      > > But I understand your
      > > need for a spot in the
      > > hierarchy.
      > >
      > > A:
      > > Such is the nature of the human mind. A pitiful instrument that we try and use
      > > until we learn Soul Travel or in AKATHA known as Sahaji. As Paul Twichell stated
      > > the mind is an excellent servant but a poor master.
      > >
      > > ME: Paul stole that adage
      > > as well. Why don't you know
      > > that?
      > >
      > >
      > > Prometheus
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > <prometheus_973@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Hello Allen and All,
      > > > Let's face it. This Sri
      > > > Kahtifji is either a
      > > > conman, like Twitchell,
      > > > or is deluded. Maybe
      > > > a combo of both!
      > > >
      > > > Allen, if you would take
      > > > the time to look at the
      > > > PT info, older post below,
      > > > from his June, 1971 interviews
      > > > you would see that Twit
      > > > was a liar, poser, conman
      > > > and a self-promoter.
      > > > These quotes were taken
      > > > from "Difficulties Of
      > > > Becoming The Living
      > > > ECK Master."
      > > >
      > > > [If you have "Difficulties"
      > > > see pgs. 38-48, 70-71]
      > > >
      > > > 1. Twitchell never travelled
      > > > to India, especially, with his
      > > > sister and, especially, from
      > > > Paris, France, when he was
      > > > 15 years old (circa 1923).
      > > > Kay-Dee was in school in
      > > > Paris, Kentucky.
      > > >
      > > > This means that Twitchell
      > > > never received his 2nd initiation
      > > > (at this time or place) from
      > > > either Sudar, or Kirpal Singh.
      > > > It didn't happen!
      > > >
      > > > 2. Therefore, any follow-up
      > > > (2nd & 3rd) visits to India
      > > > (1947 & 1951) to see Rebazar
      > > > and to receive initiations 3-7
      > > > and then 8-12 were also lies.
      > > > Sudar was actually Kirpal Singh
      > > > and he was Paul's real Master
      > > > from 1955-1965, but Kirpal
      > > > had a falling out with Paul due
      > > > to exaggerations and pure
      > > > fiction PT used in his Tiger's
      > > > Fang manuscript. PT has Sudar
      > > > (Kirpal) dying in 1937, but Kirpal
      > > > actually outlived Paul by three
      > > > years and died in 1974 at 80
      > > > years old while Paul was 63.
      > > >
      > > > Rebazar (among other EK
      > > > Masters like Fubbi) were/are
      > > > imaginary characters created
      > > > by Twitchell in order to establish
      > > > an ancient "line of Mastership."
      > > > Rebazar was created so that
      > > > Twitchell could initiate himself
      > > > as a 12th Plane "Master." Later,
      > > > 1969, Paul made himself a
      > > > 14th Plane Mahanta/Master.
      > > >
      > > > These ego-driven conmen always
      > > > need to one-up the competition
      > > > by giving themselves more and
      > > > more phony initiation numbers
      > > > and more glorified titles! Their
      > > > deluded followers will believe
      > > > anything they say. Look around,
      > > > it's the same with all religions!
      > > >
      > > > 3. Anyone believing Twitchell
      > > > was a "Master" and was not a
      > > > liar, or that Rebazar and Fubbi
      > > > actually exist are either delusional,
      > > > stupid, fearful, insane, weak
      > > > minded, are conmen themselves,
      > > > or are a combo of all the above!
      > > >
      > > > Prometheus
      > > > BTW- Allen, I really doubt that
      > > > you've done a research of info
      > > > in "Difficulties Of Becoming The
      > > > Living ECK Master?" Do you have
      > > > this book in order to verify the
      > > > info I've posted from pages 38-48
      > > > and 70-71? Really, Paul was never
      > > > in Paris, France at 15 years of age!
      > > >
      > > > Have you ever read "The Path of
      > > > the Masters" or Ford Johnson's
      > > > book "Confessions of a God-Seeker?"
      > > > I you had read these (not a speed
      > > > read like Twit would do), and kept
      > > > an open mind while doing so, you
      > > > would begin to see through all of
      > > > Twitchell's bullshit and that of his
      > > > Eckankar con.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > ********
      > > > Just thought I'd bring
      > > > this back to the front
      > > > page for another look.
      > > >
      > > > This LSM character is
      > > > saying that there's no
      > > > empirical evidence showing
      > > > that Paul wasn't what
      > > > he claimed. That's not
      > > > true! We have Paul's
      > > > own words that prove
      > > > he lied about and stole
      > > > almost everything that
      > > > became Eckankar. Would
      > > > a spiritual "Master" lie
      > > > or would a conman lie?
      > > >
      > > > What's the difference
      > > > between the two?
      > > > One is deluded while
      > > > the other is dishonest!
      > > > Both are vain and toot
      > > > their own horns.
      > > >
      > > > It's also interesting that
      > > > this Akshar Master is using
      > > > ECK Master Fubbi Quantz
      > > > as the (replacement) 972nd
      > > > LSM while he's the 973rd
      > > > replacement for Klemp!
      > > > Too funny!
      > > >
      > > > p.s. What's also funny is
      > > > that this LSM states that
      > > > PT was in charge (as LEM
      > > > or LSM?) from 65-72. Did
      > > > he just round it off to 72?
      > > > Or should it have been
      > > > 66-72?
      > > >
      > > > prometheus wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Hello Etznab,
      > > > > I'll have to agree that
      > > > > Sudar Singh was really
      > > > > Kirpal Singh. Paul lied
      > > > > about who Sudar was.
      > > > >
      > > > > BTW- Sudar Singh is
      > > > > listed in Klemp's ECK
      > > > > Lexicon as the LEM who
      > > > > taught Twitchell, thus,
      > > > > it seems that Kirpal
      > > > > (Sudar) was actually
      > > > > the 970th LEM since
      > > > > Rebazar is fictitious.
      > > > >
      > > > > Also, in Twitchell's June
      > > > > 1971 interviews printed
      > > > > in:
      > > > >
      > > > > "Difficulties Of Becoming
      > > > > The Living ECK Master."
      > > > >
      > > > > PT stated that he was 15
      > > > > years old (pg. 48) when
      > > > > he traveled from "Paris"
      > > > > to India where PT states
      > > > > he got his 2nd initiation
      > > > > from Sudar Singh. All of
      > > > > this distorted info comes
      > > > > directly from Twitchell's
      > > > > own mouth!
      > > > >
      > > > > Even the ECKankar spokes-
      > > > > person, Doug Marman,
      > > > > has stated that Twitchell
      > > > > was lying and misdirected
      > > > > people into thinking this
      > > > > was Paris, France (where
      > > > > PT went to visit his sister)
      > > > > when it was actually Paris,
      > > > > Kentucky! I, also, doubt
      > > > > that Twit flew from Paris,
      > > > > Kentucky to India! When
      > > > > you catch a person in one
      > > > > lie it makes you wonder
      > > > > how many other lies there
      > > > > were/are.
      > > > >
      > > > > Klemp states that PT was
      > > > > born in 1908, but it really
      > > > > doesn't matter because it
      > > > > was between 1908-1910.
      > > > >
      > > > > Let's say PT was born
      > > > > in 1908. This means
      > > > > that when he was 15
      > > > > (pg.48) and got his 2nd
      > > > > initiation from Sudar
      > > > > the year was 1923.
      > > > >
      > > > > Note: Klemp mentions
      > > > > in the Paul Twitchell
      > > > > (born 1908) info on
      > > > > Eckankar.org that PT
      > > > > was "Twisting Facts"
      > > > > and "Exaggerating"
      > > > > at age 27 (1935) to
      > > > > get into "Who's Who
      > > > > in Kentucky" and that
      > > > > Twitchell had never
      > > > > been all that far from
      > > > > home. Paul's first wife
      > > > > stated that he had
      > > > > never been outside
      > > > > of the U.S. until he
      > > > > joined the Navy in 1942.
      > > > >
      > > > > PT claims that on the
      > > > > next (2nd) trip to India
      > > > > it was 1947. This was
      > > > > when he met Rebazar
      > > > > and received initiations
      > > > > 3-7.
      > > > >
      > > > > BTW- It seems that Twitchell
      > > > > was a 2nd initiate from
      > > > > 1923-1947....{Sudar had
      > > > > died in 1937 (pg. 45)}
      > > > >
      > > > > I wonder who PT's master
      > > > > was from 1937-47 since
      > > > > he says he didn't meet RT
      > > > > until 1947?
      > > > >
      > > > > And, this means that Twitchell
      > > > > was a 2nd initiate for 24
      > > > > years... 1923-47!
      > > > >
      > > > > And, Rebazar was the fill-
      > > > > in LEM since 1937.
      > > > >
      > > > > PT claims to have gone
      > > > > from 3rd to 7th initiate
      > > > > in six to seven months!
      > > > >
      > > > > On Twitchell's 3rd trip
      > > > > to India (1951), to meet
      > > > > Rebazar for the second
      > > > > time, PT says he "got the
      > > > > finish of my initiations."
      > > > > I'm assuming this was
      > > > > 8-12!
      > > > >
      > > > > Now, maybe I'm wrong
      > > > > that Sudar Singh was the
      > > > > 970th LEM.
      > > > >
      > > > > Maybe Sudar was the 969th
      > > > > LEM and Rebazar (as fill-in)
      > > > > was the 970th LEM since
      > > > > he, supposedly, gave PT
      > > > > the 12th and made him
      > > > > the LEM.
      > > > >
      > > > > However, was Twitchell
      > > > > the LEM in 1951? It sure
      > > > > doesn't seem so according
      > > > > to Twitchell's writings.
      > > > > Or, did Twit get the 12th
      > > > > but Not the LEM position?
      > > > >
      > > > > This would mean that Rebazar
      > > > > was the LEM from 1937-65!
      > > > > The truth is, it's all a lie!
      > > > >
      > > > > Plus, let's remember this
      > > > > too. Twitchell is telling all
      > > > > of this in a series of interviews
      > > > > in June, 1971 (as the Mahanta).
      > > > > And, this was just a few
      > > > > months before his untimely
      > > > > death. Lies and more lies up
      > > > > to his death!
      > > > >
      > > > > Anyway, pages 38-48, 70-71
      > > > > have all of the info one needs.
      > > > > Just remember that Twitchell
      > > > > was born in 1908 (close enough),
      > > > > and that in June, 1966 Kirpal
      > > > > Singh (Paul's real Master)
      > > > > returned PT's "The Tiger's Fang"
      > > > > manuscript to him. Plus, it
      > > > > was January, 1969 that the
      > > > > word "Mahanta" was first used
      > > > > in print by Twitchell.
      > > > >
      > > > > Think about this. If PT was in
      > > > > training by Rebazar over all
      > > > > these years, as he claimed, and
      > > > > received 12 initiations from him,
      > > > > one would think that RT would
      > > > > have told PT about the 14th
      > > > > level/plane and that PT would
      > > > > have used the term "Mahanta"
      > > > > before 1969!
      > > > >
      > > > > Sure, anything can be debated,
      > > > > but credibility goes a long way
      > > > > in deciding if the person telling
      > > > > you all this stuff can be trusted.
      > > > > Twitchell was a known and proven
      > > > > plagiarist and a liar as pointed
      > > > > out by former RESA Ford Johnson,
      > > > > by Doug Marman, and even by
      > > > > Harold Klemp!
      > > > >
      > > > > Regardless of proven facts,
      > > > > common sense, logic, and
      > > > > past behavior, some people
      > > > > will still believe this crap.
      > > > > They need to believe in
      > > > > something/anything bigger
      > > > > and greater than themselves.
      > > > > They allow their minds and
      > > > > imaginations to be programmed
      > > > > to expect and dream of
      > > > > scenarios that are "spiritual."
      > > > >
      > > > > Prometheus
      > > >
      > > > "allen4447" wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Hello Everyone,
      > > > >
      > > > > If you look at Paul Twitchell's "Spiritual Notebook" 1981 edition which I
      > > believe is identical to older copies on page 106 you will see a 12th plain chart
      > > that is almost identical to the AKATHA chart that's at:
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > http://www.akatha.com/akatha-god-worlds-chart-showing-lower-and-higher-plains.ht\
      > > \
      > > ml
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > A look through the old Eckankar dictionary from 1973 shows I believe that
      > > all AKATHA terms except AKATHA are listed. see:
      > > > >
      > > > http://www.akatha.com/akatha-glossary.html
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > All that this proves is that AKATHA and Paul's old time Eckankar (pre 1972)
      > > are as Prometheus stated almost identical. I believe that Sri Kahtifji would
      > > probably agree, stating he holds the Rod of SRAOSHA power which is really the
      > > same as the rod of Eck power that Paul Twichell held till 1971. I believe Sri
      > > Kahtifji has also stated somewhere (not sure where) that AKATHA is really Old
      > > time Eckankar (pre 1971) So AKATHA being similar to old time Eckankar this is
      > > not something AKATHA is trying to hid from anyone.
      > > >
      > > > > So all we are left with is who believes what?
      > > >
      > > > > This is the problem with debating anything of a spiritual nature whether its
      > > AKATHA, Eckankar, Christianity, Buddhism, etc.
      > > > >
      > > > > I am no fan of the "New Eckankar" that Klemp created.
      > > >
      > > > > I am a former Eck chela for 29 years I'm glad I got out! I do not recommend
      > > the "New Klemp Eckankar"
      > > >
      > > > > But I have to say in all honesty from my viewpoint Paul Twichell was a
      > > Spiritual Giant.
      > > >
      > > > > And so is Sri Kahtifji. I know most of you will probably disagree but this
      > > is the nature of Spiritual Debating. Or Discussion : ) How can anyone ever win
      > > an augment about Spirituality?
      > > >
      > > > > All you can do is find a path that makes seems to you and feels right to you
      > > and give it a try and see where it leads you. Some chose to follow "Science"
      > > what ever that means. Others AKATHA. Others Eckankar or Christian Mysticism or
      > > what ever. I frankly can't blame some of you for being so annoyed with the new
      > > Eckankar as I agree there is a lot of nonsense going on.
      > > >
      > > > > But some of us are God seekers who truly desire to find God. And so it goes
      > > we go down all kinds of avenues trying to find answers to questions that seem
      > > almost impossible to answer!
      > > >
      > > > > AKATHA has done more for me over the last 3 months then Eckankar did over
      > > the last 29 years.
      > > >
      > > > > But its an individual thing and we all need to find our own path what ever
      > > the word Path means to us individually.
      > > > >
      > > > > Allen
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > prometheus wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Hello All,
      > > > > > Just Google: Living SRAOSHA
      > > > > > Master and the site comes up.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > This guy copied Paul's God
      > > > > > World Chart, which was copied
      > > > > > and plagiarized info, and then
      > > > > > tweaked it by adding a couple
      > > > > > of Higher Planes that Twit, Darwin,
      > > > > > and Klemp had overlooked.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > After all, Why should Sugmad
      > > > > > reside on the 10th Plane (ANAMI
      > > > > > LOK) and not a higher one when
      > > > > > the LEM is of the 12th Plane and
      > > > > > the Mahanta of the 14th Plane!
      > > > > >
      > > > > > The Living Sraosha Master (LSM),
      > > > > > [BTW-SRAOSHA means ECK, see
      > > > > > pg. 200 of the 1998 EK Lexicon
      > > > > > and page 51 of The Path of the
      > > > > > Masters] is just another conman.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Anyway, what's funny is that
      > > > > > anyone can simply insert their
      > > > > > own name in place of this guy's
      > > > > > and who's to disprove his "inner"
      > > > > > experiences and the story he's
      > > > > > spinning? It like with Twitchell's
      > > > > > bullshit which Darwin and Klemp
      > > > > > inherited by playing-the-game.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > So, Twitchell's and Klemp's "God
      > > > > > Worlds Chart" i.e. "Worlds of ECK"
      > > > > > goes to the 10th Plane. This below
      > > > > > chart goes to the 12th Plane. The
      > > > > > 12th Plane is the AKSHAR and the
      > > > > > 11th is a derivative of this... I forget
      > > > > > exactly what it was. In any case
      > > > > > AKSHAR means SUGMAD and it
      > > > > > can be found in "Path" on pages
      > > > > > 264, 284, and 305.
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > **********************
      > > > > > AKATHA God Worlds Chart - Lower and Higher Planes
      > > > > > A message from Sri Kahtifji, the Mahaji, the 973rd Living SRAOSHA Master
      > > regarding the God Worlds Chart
      > > > > >
      > > > > > "The AKATHA God Worlds chart is very important insofar as the chela
      > > (student of AKATHA) needs to see it in order to know how to negotiate through
      > > the God Worlds. It is especially important to manoeuvre through the lower worlds
      > > getting to the Soul Plane as quickly as possible. Still that paradox exists
      > > regarding the essence of man as Soul wherein each one is the Sound and Light of
      > > SRAOSHA and therefore, dwells really upon the Soul Plane. The problem is that
      > > those outside AKATHA do not know it. We are fortunate to have this God knowlege,
      > > the Para-Vidya, in AKATHA. Still Soul needs to see the God Worlds
      > > superstructure for the true matrix of the universe. This mapping is very old,
      > > older than time itself. Hence, we again are fortunate that Paulji (Paul
      > > Twitchell) was the pioneer for this mapping in the recent past. Otherwise, we
      > > would not know were to go on the inner. The chela should really appreciate that
      > > we know were to go spiritually in AKATHA."
      > > > > >*( Abu Njoroge Tammuz- The map of these worlds was borrowed from hinduism that states the universe itself is the body of Purusha. We are the micro of the macro. Each chakra represents a God world. When you get to the God worlds Paul and Akatha made embellishments to seam like one of there tailor made masters is resposible there. The original Hinduism did not completly agree. In Sant Mat Sri Laksmi resides in the third Chakra. While in others she is Consort of Purusha who is Narayana who is the original Brahm or unmanifested Vishnu. You see Purusha is a Father God thus is not outside of duality. Take away the duality then his original state is Aswara or unmanifested divine spirit or Ek Ong Kar Sat Nam. In hindu theology Sat Nam and Sat Puusha are the same. Sat Nam is the spirit of Truth itself. You see nothing Ancient in your path except a new hindu doctrine that is easier for the western mind to adopt. It is embellished with fantasy to make a more enjoyable read but looses something vital for a real Truth Seeker. Your friend in Ek Ong Kar Abu Njoroge Tammuz.) > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > You can view the AKATHA GOD WORLDS CHART by clicking on the PDF link below
      > > or viewing in Scribd.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > the_god_worlds_of_akatha_31.pdf
      > > > > > Download File
      > >
      >
      Eckankar,Shraosha,Dhunnami and any that revere Paul,Harold or Darwin, are just new age trancendental meditation with a fictional hirarchy whose purpose has always been for personal gain,pomp and deception.
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