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Re: Why Doesn't Klemp Offer Annual Reports?

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello Janice and All, Janice wrote: Maybe if the IRS heard from enough ex eckist about how they were scammed, losing their nonprofit status might be possible.
    Message 1 of 6 , Feb 15, 2012
    • 0 Attachment
      Hello Janice and All,

      Janice wrote:

      Maybe if the IRS heard from enough
      ex eckist about how they were scammed,
      losing their nonprofit status might
      be possible.


      ME: IMO-Scamming has nothing to
      do with Eckankar losing its non-profit
      status because all religions are scams
      and are protected by law. However,
      the IRS could be notified of certain
      improprieties that would jeopardize
      them as a non-profit org.


      I don't have a problem with more
      traditional churches having nonprofit
      status because most don't sell books
      and charge fees for every little thing.


      ME: I have a problem with all churches!
      They all have their money making ploys
      and twist the truth. Some, simply, rely
      on donations more than book sales,
      lessons and retreats like the "New Age"
      scammers tend to do.


      I was in long enough to see that in
      eckankar you are expected to pay for
      everything including the introductory
      books that are handed out free to
      prospective converts.


      ME: In Catholic school they would
      have jars with the names of those
      running for class offices. A penny
      was a vote and the Church kept the
      pennies!


      All I can say is anytime you want to
      start a petition concerning eckankar
      nonprofit status to send to IRS, you
      can count on my signature for sure.


      ME: Thanks, but I'll pass on
      any petition. Just sharing
      some of the nonsense we
      experienced firsthand might
      be enough for some Eckists
      to wake up, open their eyes,
      connect-the-dots and smell
      the coffee (or tea) once again!


      I freely admit that I would like to
      see Minneapolis get a little "payback"
      for all the damage I feel they have
      caused everyone who served their
      selfish greed.


      ME: Time is the great equalizer!
      Unlike the fictional and immortal
      Rebazar... Gail (whatever her last
      name is now) and the Klemps' will
      pay! Peter too!


      When has eckankar ever done
      anything that wasn't for directly
      benefiting eckankar corp?


      ME: Well, locally and individually
      there are some well meaning
      people and this includes those
      staffers at the ESC. They're deluded,
      of course, but they've been tricked
      into believing the hype. It makes
      one feel good and it's fun to pretend!


      I read ford Johnson's book and
      it was very enlightening but I don't
      recall him divulging anything to do
      with the finances either.


      ME: A RESA only knows of what's
      happening in their region, unless,
      HK or Peter throws some tid-bits
      or scraps their way in order to
      make them feel special and trusted.
      Of course, they do share and
      discuss info with other RESAs.
      Locally, each Satsang Society has
      it's own bank account. These used
      to be higher amounts, $50,000
      more or less, and the local CFO
      would invest some of the money
      in short term bonds etc. so that
      this could be used for operating
      costs and special events. Now,
      however, the Satsang Societies
      are instructed to send "surplus"
      money to the ESC, annually, and
      to maintain lower balances in their
      treasuries. Most local Eckists don't
      realize that all of the ECK Center's
      furniture, TVs, DVRs, pictures,
      books (even those they paid for
      and display), etc. and all of the
      money that their local Satsang
      Society possesses belongs to
      Eckankar.


      He [Ford] was probably in a position
      to know a lot about those things
      or at least I would think so.


      ME: Like I said, I doubt that Ford
      knew where the bodies were buried.
      Only the CFO, and the accountants,
      along with Peter, Joan, and Harold
      know where and how much money
      there is. I'm sure that Klemp doesn't
      receive a huge paycheck but that's
      simply a smoke screen. When looking
      at properties, health care benefits,
      retirement, his expense account
      and other perks (not counting Joan's
      and Peter's) there's probably a lot
      of money hidden away offshore.

      Prometheus


      prometheus wrote:

      Hello Janice and All,
      I'd like to see all religions
      and their properties taxed.

      Treat them like every other
      business.

      There can be no separation
      of church and state when
      the state is not treating
      churches equally with other
      businesses and is, thus,
      giving them special protections
      and privileges. Most of these
      non-profit organizations
      are, simply, money making
      scams. Politicians and Preachers!

      One reason Eckankar moved
      to MN is because non-profits
      in CA are required to publicly
      divulge their financial records.

      Still, even though Eckankar
      isn't required to divulge their
      financial records it's still the
      right thing to do. Really! Why
      not?

      Yes, I'd like to see Eckankar
      lose its non-profit status.

      Actually, they could. The
      Annual Membership Donation
      Fee is tied into Initiations
      because one has to be up-
      to-date (current) in order
      to advance. Therefore, one
      is paying a set fee for both
      a "spiritual" service and
      a product (a membership)
      but they are calling it a
      "donation."

      The H.I. Letter and The Mystic
      World are Tangible Products
      that are being sold with the
      Required Cost for the ECK
      Membership. Thus, Eckankar
      memberships now become
      For Profit "fees" because one
      is paying a set price for
      tangible products that are
      tax free. Anything less than
      the fixed price will not buy
      the product, thus, it's not
      a donation.

      Donations, under law, cannot
      be set or fixed amounts. Any
      amount given (not required)
      qualifies for what is called a
      "donation."

      And, when there are strings
      attached this brings into
      question their non-profit
      status let alone their "spiritual"
      mission as a valid religion.
      But what's "valid" for a religion?

      Sometimes a donation is referred
      to as a "donation from the heart"
      because there is no fixed amount
      and it's freely given out of love.
      This is not the case with Eckankar's
      Membership "Donation." It's a
      set fee!

      However, there are other areas
      such as the Missionary or Building
      Fund where Donations are given
      in non-set amounts and where it
      is clear that the money is freely
      given (with no strings attached)
      as a donation.

      But, the same does not apply
      to paying for those Major and
      Regional Seminar Sessions.
      The cost of attending is supposed
      to be a "donation" but Eckankar
      Requires a Fixed (donation)
      Fee or else you don't get in.
      This is the same with the
      annual memberships! You
      pay the fixed price/fee in
      order to retain your membership
      and initiations and to advance
      and to receive your H.I. Letter
      and Mystic World.

      Sure, they call it a "donation"
      but this is just another lie!
      Both of these practices violates
      the non-profit requirements
      involving donations versus fees.

      Anywho, maybe one of the
      local Christian churches in
      Chanhassen will be tipped
      off to this abnormality and
      file a suit or report them
      to the IRS in order to have
      the cancer invading them
      cut out.

      What's really funny is that
      after so many years Eckists
      just rationalize more and
      more away. Everyone knows
      that Membership and Seminar
      Fees are Not Donations.
      Eckists know to call it a
      donation and to pretend
      that it is, but it's a lie and
      everyone knows it. Well, not
      everyone. Many leaders and
      non-leaders turn a Blind Eye
      to this and to other lies...
      it's what they have to do
      to maintain their belief...
      the illusion of "as if."

      Prometheus

      Janice wrote:
      Very good point prometheus_973.
      Most non profits do but then
      again eckankar is far from
      being non profit even if they
      have that status with the government
      as far as taxes.

      I would like to see all like them
      lose there non profit status but
      to do so would probably cause
      all churches to lose theirs.

      At least they should be required
      to do the annual report. I am
      wondering what kind of documentation
      if any orgs like that have to
      submit to the government
      annually or if after they have
      the non profit status they are
      exempt from any paper work
      also.

      I don't know that much about
      it but it might be worthy of
      some research.

      Prometheus wrote:

      Hello All,
      I recall that Klemp
      has stated that he
      was Lutheran and
      attended Lutheran
      private school and
      was in Seminary for
      two years. I believe
      he said he was in
      the Missouri Synod
      or was it the smaller
      Wisconsin Synod?

      Anyway, it's interesting
      researching various
      Lutheran Churches
      and which synod they
      belong to. Plus, there
      are regional synods
      in each state!

      My point? It's rather
      easy to find their
      annual reports on
      the Internet. They
      make these public
      and list names and
      charities and other
      associations.

      Why doesn't Klemp
      offer Annual Reports
      from Eckankar?

      It's very strange that
      Annual Reports aren't
      even available to card
      holding Eckists who
      pay an Annual Membership
      Donation Fee.

      Really! If not to the
      public, as there should
      be, why not for EK
      members?

      It really points out
      that Klemp is hiding
      something. Now, he'd
      probably twist it around
      and say something like,

      "If you question things
      this shows you don't
      fully trust the Mahanta,
      and therefore, this is
      why you fail with your
      Spiritual Exercises and
      fail in life and fail to
      achieve a higher consciousness
      that is expressed via
      the outer initiations...
      Catch-22!"

      As I've said before...
      Eckankar is a trap
      and the "test" is to
      see the TRUTH and
      the reality of this!

      Prometheus
    • Janice Pfeiffer
      Thank you Prometheus _973 for clarifying some about how eckankar finances work.  You told me a lot more than I knew before.  The problem I have with removing
      Message 2 of 6 , Feb 16, 2012
      • 0 Attachment
        Thank you Prometheus _973 for clarifying some about how eckankar finances work.  You told me a lot more than I knew before.  The problem I have with removing nonprofit status from most Christian churches is that a lot of them do charity work.  A lot of them actively give back to the community where as eckankar and scientology and others that are considered cults don't do anything but rake in the money with out any benefit going to the community or to even members.  I know there are good people in eckankar.  I know they are not able to see that they are being used to make the elites in eckankar more wealthy.  But it is obvious that eckankar only does what glorifies eckankar.  They don't feed the hungry, house the homeless, or provide any assistance of a material kind to those in need at all.  I know churches that do help the communities.  To me that is the difference between a real non profit org and one that just uses the status to fool people into donating their, money and time toward roping other people in.  I have seen some non profit orgs that spend only a small portion of the money that is donated to the actual work they are supposed to be doing while they give fat bonuses to their executives.  These things should be stopped too.  If a group is truly a non profit org then it should run strictly on donated time and money.  Once you hire paid executives, the real work is second to big salaries.  I know orgs have to have a system of order and administrative duties are needed but there are always people who are willing to serve when they believe in a cause.  Nonprofit status is easily used to cover up greed.  I just feel that it isn't done by all.  In this time when the economy is so bad, there are a lot of people in need and there are orgs working to meet those needs.  Maybe more stringent requirements are needed by the government to define what is a nonprofit org.  I believe the first requirement is that they should be benefiting others more than their own organizational needs.  In fact, I think that is about the only thing that should allow an org to be called a nonprofit.  That's my humble opinion anyway.  Thanks

        --- On Wed, 2/15/12, prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...> wrote:

        From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
        Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Why Doesn't Klemp Offer Annual Reports?
        To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Wednesday, February 15, 2012, 11:42 PM

         
        Hello Janice and All,

        Janice wrote:

        Maybe if the IRS heard from enough
        ex eckist about how they were scammed,
        losing their nonprofit status might
        be possible.

        ME: IMO-Scamming has nothing to
        do with Eckankar losing its non-profit
        status because all religions are scams
        and are protected by law. However,
        the IRS could be notified of certain
        improprieties that would jeopardize
        them as a non-profit org.


        I don't have a problem with more
        traditional churches having nonprofit
        status because most don't sell books
        and charge fees for every little thing.

        ME: I have a problem with all churches!
        They all have their money making ploys
        and twist the truth. Some, simply, rely
        on donations more than book sales,
        lessons and retreats like the "New Age"
        scammers tend to do.


        I was in long enough to see that in
        eckankar you are expected to pay for
        everything including the introductory
        books that are handed out free to
        prospective converts.

        ME: In Catholic school they would
        have jars with the names of those
        running for class offices. A penny
        was a vote and the Church kept the
        pennies!


        All I can say is anytime you want to
        start a petition concerning eckankar
        nonprofit status to send to IRS, you
        can count on my signature for sure.

        ME: Thanks, but I'll pass on
        any petition. Just sharing
        some of the nonsense we
        experienced firsthand might
        be enough for some Eckists
        to wake up, open their eyes,
        connect-the-dots and smell
        the coffee (or tea) once again!

        I freely admit that I would like to
        see Minneapolis get a little "payback"
        for all the damage I feel they have
        caused everyone who served their
        selfish greed.

        ME: Time is the great equalizer!
        Unlike the fictional and immortal
        Rebazar... Gail (whatever her last
        name is now) and the Klemps' will
        pay! Peter too!


        When has eckankar ever done
        anything that wasn't for directly
        benefiting eckankar corp?

        ME: Well, locally and individually
        there are some well meaning
        people and this includes those
        staffers at the ESC. They're deluded,
        of course, but they've been tricked
        into believing the hype. It makes
        one feel good and it's fun to pretend!


        I read ford Johnson's book and
        it was very enlightening but I don't
        recall him divulging anything to do
        with the finances either.

        ME: A RESA only knows of what's
        happening in their region, unless,
        HK or Peter throws some tid-bits
        or scraps their way in order to
        make them feel special and trusted.
        Of course, they do share and
        discuss info with other RESAs.
        Locally, each Satsang Society has
        it's own bank account. These used
        to be higher amounts, $50,000
        more or less, and the local CFO
        would invest some of the money
        in short term bonds etc. so that
        this could be used for operating
        costs and special events. Now,
        however, the Satsang Societies
        are instructed to send "surplus"
        money to the ESC, annually, and
        to maintain lower balances in their
        treasuries. Most local Eckists don't
        realize that all of the ECK Center's
        furniture, TVs, DVRs, pictures,
        books (even those they paid for
        and display), etc. and all of the
        money that their local Satsang
        Society possesses belongs to
        Eckankar.

        He [Ford] was probably in a position
        to know a lot about those things
        or at least I would think so.

        ME: Like I said, I doubt that Ford
        knew where the bodies were buried.
        Only the CFO, and the accountants,
        along with Peter, Joan, and Harold
        know where and how much money
        there is. I'm sure that Klemp doesn't
        receive a huge paycheck but that's
        simply a smoke screen. When looking
        at properties, health care benefits,
        retirement, his expense account
        and other perks (not counting Joan's
        and Peter's) there's probably a lot
        of money hidden away offshore.

        Prometheus

        prometheus wrote:

        Hello Janice and All,
        I'd like to see all religions
        and their properties taxed.

        Treat them like every other
        business.

        There can be no separation
        of church and state when
        the state is not treating
        churches equally with other
        businesses and is, thus,
        giving them special protections
        and privileges. Most of these
        non-profit organizations
        are, simply, money making
        scams. Politicians and Preachers!

        One reason Eckankar moved
        to MN is because non-profits
        in CA are required to publicly
        divulge their financial records.

        Still, even though Eckankar
        isn't required to divulge their
        financial records it's still the
        right thing to do. Really! Why
        not?

        Yes, I'd like to see Eckankar
        lose its non-profit status.

        Actually, they could. The
        Annual Membership Donation
        Fee is tied into Initiations
        because one has to be up-
        to-date (current) in order
        to advance. Therefore, one
        is paying a set fee for both
        a "spiritual" service and
        a product (a membership)
        but they are calling it a
        "donation."

        The H.I. Letter and The Mystic
        World are Tangible Products
        that are being sold with the
        Required Cost for the ECK
        Membership. Thus, Eckankar
        memberships now become
        For Profit "fees" because one
        is paying a set price for
        tangible products that are
        tax free. Anything less than
        the fixed price will not buy
        the product, thus, it's not
        a donation.

        Donations, under law, cannot
        be set or fixed amounts. Any
        amount given (not required)
        qualifies for what is called a
        "donation."

        And, when there are strings
        attached this brings into
        question their non-profit
        status let alone their "spiritual"
        mission as a valid religion.
        But what's "valid" for a religion?

        Sometimes a donation is referred
        to as a "donation from the heart"
        because there is no fixed amount
        and it's freely given out of love.
        This is not the case with Eckankar's
        Membership "Donation." It's a
        set fee!

        However, there are other areas
        such as the Missionary or Building
        Fund where Donations are given
        in non-set amounts and where it
        is clear that the money is freely
        given (with no strings attached)
        as a donation.

        But, the same does not apply
        to paying for those Major and
        Regional Seminar Sessions.
        The cost of attending is supposed
        to be a "donation" but Eckankar
        Requires a Fixed (donation)
        Fee or else you don't get in.
        This is the same with the
        annual memberships! You
        pay the fixed price/fee in
        order to retain your membership
        and initiations and to advance
        and to receive your H.I. Letter
        and Mystic World.

        Sure, they call it a "donation"
        but this is just another lie!
        Both of these practices violates
        the non-profit requirements
        involving donations versus fees.

        Anywho, maybe one of the
        local Christian churches in
        Chanhassen will be tipped
        off to this abnormality and
        file a suit or report them
        to the IRS in order to have
        the cancer invading them
        cut out.

        What's really funny is that
        after so many years Eckists
        just rationalize more and
        more away. Everyone knows
        that Membership and Seminar
        Fees are Not Donations.
        Eckists know to call it a
        donation and to pretend
        that it is, but it's a lie and
        everyone knows it. Well, not
        everyone. Many leaders and
        non-leaders turn a Blind Eye
        to this and to other lies...
        it's what they have to do
        to maintain their belief...
        the illusion of "as if."

        Prometheus

        Janice wrote:
        Very good point prometheus_973.
        Most non profits do but then
        again eckankar is far from
        being non profit even if they
        have that status with the government
        as far as taxes.

        I would like to see all like them
        lose there non profit status but
        to do so would probably cause
        all churches to lose theirs.

        At least they should be required
        to do the annual report. I am
        wondering what kind of documentation
        if any orgs like that have to
        submit to the government
        annually or if after they have
        the non profit status they are
        exempt from any paper work
        also.

        I don't know that much about
        it but it might be worthy of
        some research.

        Prometheus wrote:

        Hello All,
        I recall that Klemp
        has stated that he
        was Lutheran and
        attended Lutheran
        private school and
        was in Seminary for
        two years. I believe
        he said he was in
        the Missouri Synod
        or was it the smaller
        Wisconsin Synod?

        Anyway, it's interesting
        researching various
        Lutheran Churches
        and which synod they
        belong to. Plus, there
        are regional synods
        in each state!

        My point? It's rather
        easy to find their
        annual reports on
        the Internet. They
        make these public
        and list names and
        charities and other
        associations.

        Why doesn't Klemp
        offer Annual Reports
        from Eckankar?

        It's very strange that
        Annual Reports aren't
        even available to card
        holding Eckists who
        pay an Annual Membership
        Donation Fee.

        Really! If not to the
        public, as there should
        be, why not for EK
        members?

        It really points out
        that Klemp is hiding
        something. Now, he'd
        probably twist it around
        and say something like,

        "If you question things
        this shows you don't
        fully trust the Mahanta,
        and therefore, this is
        why you fail with your
        Spiritual Exercises and
        fail in life and fail to
        achieve a higher consciousness
        that is expressed via
        the outer initiations...
        Catch-22!"

        As I've said before...
        Eckankar is a trap
        and the "test" is to
        see the TRUTH and
        the reality of this!

        Prometheus

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