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Why Doesn't Klemp Offer Annual Reports?

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello All, I recall that Klemp has stated that he was Lutheran and attended Lutheran private school and was in Seminary for two years. I believe he said he was
    Message 1 of 6 , Feb 12, 2012
    • 0 Attachment
      Hello All,
      I recall that Klemp
      has stated that he
      was Lutheran and
      attended Lutheran
      private school and
      was in Seminary for
      two years. I believe
      he said he was in
      the Missouri Synod
      or was it the smaller
      Wisconsin Synod?

      Anyway, it's interesting
      researching various
      Lutheran Churches
      and which synod they
      belong to. Plus, there
      are regional synods
      in each state!

      My point? It's rather
      easy to find their
      annual reports on
      the Internet. They
      make these public
      and list names and
      charities and other
      associations.

      Why doesn't Klemp
      offer Annual Reports
      from Eckankar?

      It's very strange that
      Annual Reports aren't
      even available to card
      holding Eckists who
      pay an Annual Membership
      Donation Fee.

      Really! If not to the
      public, as there should
      be, why not for EK
      members?

      It really points out
      that Klemp is hiding
      something. Now, he'd
      probably twist it around
      and say something like,

      "If you question things
      this shows you don't
      fully trust the Mahanta,
      and therefore, this is
      why you fail with your
      Spiritual Exercises and
      fail in life and fail to
      achieve a higher consciousness
      that is expressed via
      the outer initiations...
      Catch-22!"

      As I've said before...
      Eckankar is a trap
      and the "test" is to
      see the TRUTH and
      the reality of this!

      Prometheus
    • Janice Pfeiffer
      Very good point prometheus_973.  Most non profits do but then again eckankar is far from being non profit even if they have that status with the government as
      Message 2 of 6 , Feb 12, 2012
      • 0 Attachment
        Very good point prometheus_973.  Most non profits do but then again eckankar is far from being non profit even if they have that status with the government as far as taxes.  I would like to see all like them lose there non profit status but to do so would probably cause all churches to lose theirs.  At least they should be required to do the annual report.  I am wondering what kind of documentation if any orgs like that have to submit to the government annually or if after they have the non profit status they are exempt from any paper work also.  I don't know that much about it but it might be worthy of some research. 

        --- On Sun, 2/12/12, prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...> wrote:

        From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
        Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Why Doesn't Klemp Offer Annual Reports?
        To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Sunday, February 12, 2012, 7:55 PM

         
        Hello All,
        I recall that Klemp
        has stated that he
        was Lutheran and
        attended Lutheran
        private school and
        was in Seminary for
        two years. I believe
        he said he was in
        the Missouri Synod
        or was it the smaller
        Wisconsin Synod?

        Anyway, it's interesting
        researching various
        Lutheran Churches
        and which synod they
        belong to. Plus, there
        are regional synods
        in each state!

        My point? It's rather
        easy to find their
        annual reports on
        the Internet. They
        make these public
        and list names and
        charities and other
        associations.

        Why doesn't Klemp
        offer Annual Reports
        from Eckankar?

        It's very strange that
        Annual Reports aren't
        even available to card
        holding Eckists who
        pay an Annual Membership
        Donation Fee.

        Really! If not to the
        public, as there should
        be, why not for EK
        members?

        It really points out
        that Klemp is hiding
        something. Now, he'd
        probably twist it around
        and say something like,

        "If you question things
        this shows you don't
        fully trust the Mahanta,
        and therefore, this is
        why you fail with your
        Spiritual Exercises and
        fail in life and fail to
        achieve a higher consciousness
        that is expressed via
        the outer initiations...
        Catch-22!"

        As I've said before...
        Eckankar is a trap
        and the "test" is to
        see the TRUTH and
        the reality of this!

        Prometheus

      • prometheus_973
        Hello Janice and All, I d like to see all religions and their properties taxed. Treat them like every other business. There can be no separation of church and
        Message 3 of 6 , Feb 12, 2012
        • 0 Attachment
          Hello Janice and All,
          I'd like to see all religions
          and their properties taxed.

          Treat them like every other
          business.

          There can be no separation
          of church and state when
          the state is not treating
          churches equally with other
          businesses and is, thus,
          giving them special protections
          and privileges. Most of these
          non-profit organizations
          are, simply, money making
          scams. Politicians and Preachers!

          One reason Eckankar moved
          to MN is because non-profits
          in CA are required to publicly
          divulge their financial records.

          Still, even though Eckankar
          isn't required to divulge their
          financial records it's still the
          right thing to do. Really! Why
          not?

          Yes, I'd like to see Eckankar
          lose its non-profit status.

          Actually, they could. The
          Annual Membership Donation
          Fee is tied into Initiations
          because one has to be up-
          to-date (current) in order
          to advance. Therefore, one
          is paying a set fee for both
          a "spiritual" service and
          a product (a membership)
          but they are calling it a
          "donation."

          The H.I. Letter and The Mystic
          World are Tangible Products
          that are being sold with the
          Required Cost for the ECK
          Membership. Thus, Eckankar
          memberships now become
          For Profit "fees" because one
          is paying a set price for
          tangible products that are
          tax free. Anything less than
          the fixed price will not buy
          the product, thus, it's not
          a donation.

          Donations, under law, cannot
          be set or fixed amounts. Any
          amount given (not required)
          qualifies for what is called a
          "donation."

          And, when there are strings
          attached this brings into
          question their non-profit
          status let alone their "spiritual"
          mission as a valid religion.
          But what's "valid" for a religion?

          Sometimes a donation is referred
          to as a "donation from the heart"
          because there is no fixed amount
          and it's freely given out of love.
          This is not the case with Eckankar's
          Membership "Donation." It's a
          set fee!

          However, there are other areas
          such as the Missionary or Building
          Fund where Donations are given
          in non-set amounts and where it
          is clear that the money is freely
          given (with no strings attached)
          as a donation.

          But, the same does not apply
          to paying for those Major and
          Regional Seminar Sessions.
          The cost of attending is supposed
          to be a "donation" but Eckankar
          Requires a Fixed (donation)
          Fee or else you don't get in.
          This is the same with the
          annual memberships! You
          pay the fixed price/fee in
          order to retain your membership
          and initiations and to advance
          and to receive your H.I. Letter
          and Mystic World.

          Sure, they call it a "donation"
          but this is just another lie!
          Both of these practices violates
          the non-profit requirements
          involving donations versus fees.

          Anywho, maybe one of the
          local Christian churches in
          Chanhassen will be tipped
          off to this abnormality and
          file a suit or report them
          to the IRS in order to have
          the cancer invading them
          cut out.

          What's really funny is that
          after so many years Eckists
          just rationalize more and
          more away. Everyone knows
          that Membership and Seminar
          Fees are Not Donations.
          Eckists know to call it a
          donation and to pretend
          that it is, but it's a lie and
          everyone knows it. Well, not
          everyone. Many leaders and
          non-leaders turn a Blind Eye
          to this and to other lies...
          it's what they have to do
          to maintain their belief...
          the illusion of "as if."

          Prometheus




          Janice wrote:
          Very good point prometheus_973.
          Most non profits do but then
          again eckankar is far from
          being non profit even if they
          have that status with the government
          as far as taxes.

          I would like to see all like them
          lose there non profit status but
          to do so would probably cause
          all churches to lose theirs.

          At least they should be required
          to do the annual report. I am
          wondering what kind of documentation
          if any orgs like that have to
          submit to the government
          annually or if after they have
          the non profit status they are
          exempt from any paper work
          also.

          I don't know that much about
          it but it might be worthy of
          some research.


          Prometheus wrote:

          Hello All,
          I recall that Klemp
          has stated that he
          was Lutheran and
          attended Lutheran
          private school and
          was in Seminary for
          two years. I believe
          he said he was in
          the Missouri Synod
          or was it the smaller
          Wisconsin Synod?

          Anyway, it's interesting
          researching various
          Lutheran Churches
          and which synod they
          belong to. Plus, there
          are regional synods
          in each state!

          My point? It's rather
          easy to find their
          annual reports on
          the Internet. They
          make these public
          and list names and
          charities and other
          associations.

          Why doesn't Klemp
          offer Annual Reports
          from Eckankar?

          It's very strange that
          Annual Reports aren't
          even available to card
          holding Eckists who
          pay an Annual Membership
          Donation Fee.

          Really! If not to the
          public, as there should
          be, why not for EK
          members?

          It really points out
          that Klemp is hiding
          something. Now, he'd
          probably twist it around
          and say something like,

          "If you question things
          this shows you don't
          fully trust the Mahanta,
          and therefore, this is
          why you fail with your
          Spiritual Exercises and
          fail in life and fail to
          achieve a higher consciousness
          that is expressed via
          the outer initiations...
          Catch-22!"

          As I've said before...
          Eckankar is a trap
          and the "test" is to
          see the TRUTH and
          the reality of this!

          Prometheus
        • Janice Pfeiffer
          Maybe if the IRS heard from enough ex eckist about how they were scammed, losing their nonprofit status might be possible.  I don t have a problem with more
          Message 4 of 6 , Feb 12, 2012
          • 0 Attachment
            Maybe if the IRS heard from enough ex eckist about how they were scammed, losing their nonprofit status might be possible.  I don't have a problem with more traditional churches having nonprofit status because most don't sell books and charge fees for every little thing.  I was in long enough to see that in eckankar you are expected to pay for everything including the introductory books that are handed out free to prospective converts.  All I can say is anytime you want to start a petition concerning eckankar nonprofit status to send to IRS, you can count on my signature for sure.  I freely admit that I would like to see Minneapolis get a little "payback"  for all the damage I feel they have caused everyone who served their selfish greed.  When has eckankar ever done anything that wasn't for directly benefiting eckankar corp?  I read ford Johnson's book and it was very enlightening but I don't recall him divulging anything to do with the finances either.  He was probably in a position to know a lot about those things or at least I would think so. 
            --- On Mon, 2/13/12, prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...> wrote:

            From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
            Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Why Doesn't Klemp Offer Annual Reports?
            To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Monday, February 13, 2012, 4:49 AM

             
            Hello Janice and All,
            I'd like to see all religions
            and their properties taxed.

            Treat them like every other
            business.

            There can be no separation
            of church and state when
            the state is not treating
            churches equally with other
            businesses and is, thus,
            giving them special protections
            and privileges. Most of these
            non-profit organizations
            are, simply, money making
            scams. Politicians and Preachers!

            One reason Eckankar moved
            to MN is because non-profits
            in CA are required to publicly
            divulge their financial records.

            Still, even though Eckankar
            isn't required to divulge their
            financial records it's still the
            right thing to do. Really! Why
            not?

            Yes, I'd like to see Eckankar
            lose its non-profit status.

            Actually, they could. The
            Annual Membership Donation
            Fee is tied into Initiations
            because one has to be up-
            to-date (current) in order
            to advance. Therefore, one
            is paying a set fee for both
            a "spiritual" service and
            a product (a membership)
            but they are calling it a
            "donation."

            The H.I. Letter and The Mystic
            World are Tangible Products
            that are being sold with the
            Required Cost for the ECK
            Membership. Thus, Eckankar
            memberships now become
            For Profit "fees" because one
            is paying a set price for
            tangible products that are
            tax free. Anything less than
            the fixed price will not buy
            the product, thus, it's not
            a donation.

            Donations, under law, cannot
            be set or fixed amounts. Any
            amount given (not required)
            qualifies for what is called a
            "donation."

            And, when there are strings
            attached this brings into
            question their non-profit
            status let alone their "spiritual"
            mission as a valid religion.
            But what's "valid" for a religion?

            Sometimes a donation is referred
            to as a "donation from the heart"
            because there is no fixed amount
            and it's freely given out of love.
            This is not the case with Eckankar's
            Membership "Donation." It's a
            set fee!

            However, there are other areas
            such as the Missionary or Building
            Fund where Donations are given
            in non-set amounts and where it
            is clear that the money is freely
            given (with no strings attached)
            as a donation.

            But, the same does not apply
            to paying for those Major and
            Regional Seminar Sessions.
            The cost of attending is supposed
            to be a "donation" but Eckankar
            Requires a Fixed (donation)
            Fee or else you don't get in.
            This is the same with the
            annual memberships! You
            pay the fixed price/fee in
            order to retain your membership
            and initiations and to advance
            and to receive your H.I. Letter
            and Mystic World.

            Sure, they call it a "donation"
            but this is just another lie!
            Both of these practices violates
            the non-profit requirements
            involving donations versus fees.

            Anywho, maybe one of the
            local Christian churches in
            Chanhassen will be tipped
            off to this abnormality and
            file a suit or report them
            to the IRS in order to have
            the cancer invading them
            cut out.

            What's really funny is that
            after so many years Eckists
            just rationalize more and
            more away. Everyone knows
            that Membership and Seminar
            Fees are Not Donations.
            Eckists know to call it a
            donation and to pretend
            that it is, but it's a lie and
            everyone knows it. Well, not
            everyone. Many leaders and
            non-leaders turn a Blind Eye
            to this and to other lies...
            it's what they have to do
            to maintain their belief...
            the illusion of "as if."

            Prometheus

            Janice wrote:
            Very good point prometheus_973.
            Most non profits do but then
            again eckankar is far from
            being non profit even if they
            have that status with the government
            as far as taxes.

            I would like to see all like them
            lose there non profit status but
            to do so would probably cause
            all churches to lose theirs.

            At least they should be required
            to do the annual report. I am
            wondering what kind of documentation
            if any orgs like that have to
            submit to the government
            annually or if after they have
            the non profit status they are
            exempt from any paper work
            also.

            I don't know that much about
            it but it might be worthy of
            some research.

            Prometheus wrote:

            Hello All,
            I recall that Klemp
            has stated that he
            was Lutheran and
            attended Lutheran
            private school and
            was in Seminary for
            two years. I believe
            he said he was in
            the Missouri Synod
            or was it the smaller
            Wisconsin Synod?

            Anyway, it's interesting
            researching various
            Lutheran Churches
            and which synod they
            belong to. Plus, there
            are regional synods
            in each state!

            My point? It's rather
            easy to find their
            annual reports on
            the Internet. They
            make these public
            and list names and
            charities and other
            associations.

            Why doesn't Klemp
            offer Annual Reports
            from Eckankar?

            It's very strange that
            Annual Reports aren't
            even available to card
            holding Eckists who
            pay an Annual Membership
            Donation Fee.

            Really! If not to the
            public, as there should
            be, why not for EK
            members?

            It really points out
            that Klemp is hiding
            something. Now, he'd
            probably twist it around
            and say something like,

            "If you question things
            this shows you don't
            fully trust the Mahanta,
            and therefore, this is
            why you fail with your
            Spiritual Exercises and
            fail in life and fail to
            achieve a higher consciousness
            that is expressed via
            the outer initiations...
            Catch-22!"

            As I've said before...
            Eckankar is a trap
            and the "test" is to
            see the TRUTH and
            the reality of this!

            Prometheus

          • prometheus_973
            Hello Janice and All, Janice wrote: Maybe if the IRS heard from enough ex eckist about how they were scammed, losing their nonprofit status might be possible.
            Message 5 of 6 , Feb 15, 2012
            • 0 Attachment
              Hello Janice and All,

              Janice wrote:

              Maybe if the IRS heard from enough
              ex eckist about how they were scammed,
              losing their nonprofit status might
              be possible.


              ME: IMO-Scamming has nothing to
              do with Eckankar losing its non-profit
              status because all religions are scams
              and are protected by law. However,
              the IRS could be notified of certain
              improprieties that would jeopardize
              them as a non-profit org.


              I don't have a problem with more
              traditional churches having nonprofit
              status because most don't sell books
              and charge fees for every little thing.


              ME: I have a problem with all churches!
              They all have their money making ploys
              and twist the truth. Some, simply, rely
              on donations more than book sales,
              lessons and retreats like the "New Age"
              scammers tend to do.


              I was in long enough to see that in
              eckankar you are expected to pay for
              everything including the introductory
              books that are handed out free to
              prospective converts.


              ME: In Catholic school they would
              have jars with the names of those
              running for class offices. A penny
              was a vote and the Church kept the
              pennies!


              All I can say is anytime you want to
              start a petition concerning eckankar
              nonprofit status to send to IRS, you
              can count on my signature for sure.


              ME: Thanks, but I'll pass on
              any petition. Just sharing
              some of the nonsense we
              experienced firsthand might
              be enough for some Eckists
              to wake up, open their eyes,
              connect-the-dots and smell
              the coffee (or tea) once again!


              I freely admit that I would like to
              see Minneapolis get a little "payback"
              for all the damage I feel they have
              caused everyone who served their
              selfish greed.


              ME: Time is the great equalizer!
              Unlike the fictional and immortal
              Rebazar... Gail (whatever her last
              name is now) and the Klemps' will
              pay! Peter too!


              When has eckankar ever done
              anything that wasn't for directly
              benefiting eckankar corp?


              ME: Well, locally and individually
              there are some well meaning
              people and this includes those
              staffers at the ESC. They're deluded,
              of course, but they've been tricked
              into believing the hype. It makes
              one feel good and it's fun to pretend!


              I read ford Johnson's book and
              it was very enlightening but I don't
              recall him divulging anything to do
              with the finances either.


              ME: A RESA only knows of what's
              happening in their region, unless,
              HK or Peter throws some tid-bits
              or scraps their way in order to
              make them feel special and trusted.
              Of course, they do share and
              discuss info with other RESAs.
              Locally, each Satsang Society has
              it's own bank account. These used
              to be higher amounts, $50,000
              more or less, and the local CFO
              would invest some of the money
              in short term bonds etc. so that
              this could be used for operating
              costs and special events. Now,
              however, the Satsang Societies
              are instructed to send "surplus"
              money to the ESC, annually, and
              to maintain lower balances in their
              treasuries. Most local Eckists don't
              realize that all of the ECK Center's
              furniture, TVs, DVRs, pictures,
              books (even those they paid for
              and display), etc. and all of the
              money that their local Satsang
              Society possesses belongs to
              Eckankar.


              He [Ford] was probably in a position
              to know a lot about those things
              or at least I would think so.


              ME: Like I said, I doubt that Ford
              knew where the bodies were buried.
              Only the CFO, and the accountants,
              along with Peter, Joan, and Harold
              know where and how much money
              there is. I'm sure that Klemp doesn't
              receive a huge paycheck but that's
              simply a smoke screen. When looking
              at properties, health care benefits,
              retirement, his expense account
              and other perks (not counting Joan's
              and Peter's) there's probably a lot
              of money hidden away offshore.

              Prometheus


              prometheus wrote:

              Hello Janice and All,
              I'd like to see all religions
              and their properties taxed.

              Treat them like every other
              business.

              There can be no separation
              of church and state when
              the state is not treating
              churches equally with other
              businesses and is, thus,
              giving them special protections
              and privileges. Most of these
              non-profit organizations
              are, simply, money making
              scams. Politicians and Preachers!

              One reason Eckankar moved
              to MN is because non-profits
              in CA are required to publicly
              divulge their financial records.

              Still, even though Eckankar
              isn't required to divulge their
              financial records it's still the
              right thing to do. Really! Why
              not?

              Yes, I'd like to see Eckankar
              lose its non-profit status.

              Actually, they could. The
              Annual Membership Donation
              Fee is tied into Initiations
              because one has to be up-
              to-date (current) in order
              to advance. Therefore, one
              is paying a set fee for both
              a "spiritual" service and
              a product (a membership)
              but they are calling it a
              "donation."

              The H.I. Letter and The Mystic
              World are Tangible Products
              that are being sold with the
              Required Cost for the ECK
              Membership. Thus, Eckankar
              memberships now become
              For Profit "fees" because one
              is paying a set price for
              tangible products that are
              tax free. Anything less than
              the fixed price will not buy
              the product, thus, it's not
              a donation.

              Donations, under law, cannot
              be set or fixed amounts. Any
              amount given (not required)
              qualifies for what is called a
              "donation."

              And, when there are strings
              attached this brings into
              question their non-profit
              status let alone their "spiritual"
              mission as a valid religion.
              But what's "valid" for a religion?

              Sometimes a donation is referred
              to as a "donation from the heart"
              because there is no fixed amount
              and it's freely given out of love.
              This is not the case with Eckankar's
              Membership "Donation." It's a
              set fee!

              However, there are other areas
              such as the Missionary or Building
              Fund where Donations are given
              in non-set amounts and where it
              is clear that the money is freely
              given (with no strings attached)
              as a donation.

              But, the same does not apply
              to paying for those Major and
              Regional Seminar Sessions.
              The cost of attending is supposed
              to be a "donation" but Eckankar
              Requires a Fixed (donation)
              Fee or else you don't get in.
              This is the same with the
              annual memberships! You
              pay the fixed price/fee in
              order to retain your membership
              and initiations and to advance
              and to receive your H.I. Letter
              and Mystic World.

              Sure, they call it a "donation"
              but this is just another lie!
              Both of these practices violates
              the non-profit requirements
              involving donations versus fees.

              Anywho, maybe one of the
              local Christian churches in
              Chanhassen will be tipped
              off to this abnormality and
              file a suit or report them
              to the IRS in order to have
              the cancer invading them
              cut out.

              What's really funny is that
              after so many years Eckists
              just rationalize more and
              more away. Everyone knows
              that Membership and Seminar
              Fees are Not Donations.
              Eckists know to call it a
              donation and to pretend
              that it is, but it's a lie and
              everyone knows it. Well, not
              everyone. Many leaders and
              non-leaders turn a Blind Eye
              to this and to other lies...
              it's what they have to do
              to maintain their belief...
              the illusion of "as if."

              Prometheus

              Janice wrote:
              Very good point prometheus_973.
              Most non profits do but then
              again eckankar is far from
              being non profit even if they
              have that status with the government
              as far as taxes.

              I would like to see all like them
              lose there non profit status but
              to do so would probably cause
              all churches to lose theirs.

              At least they should be required
              to do the annual report. I am
              wondering what kind of documentation
              if any orgs like that have to
              submit to the government
              annually or if after they have
              the non profit status they are
              exempt from any paper work
              also.

              I don't know that much about
              it but it might be worthy of
              some research.

              Prometheus wrote:

              Hello All,
              I recall that Klemp
              has stated that he
              was Lutheran and
              attended Lutheran
              private school and
              was in Seminary for
              two years. I believe
              he said he was in
              the Missouri Synod
              or was it the smaller
              Wisconsin Synod?

              Anyway, it's interesting
              researching various
              Lutheran Churches
              and which synod they
              belong to. Plus, there
              are regional synods
              in each state!

              My point? It's rather
              easy to find their
              annual reports on
              the Internet. They
              make these public
              and list names and
              charities and other
              associations.

              Why doesn't Klemp
              offer Annual Reports
              from Eckankar?

              It's very strange that
              Annual Reports aren't
              even available to card
              holding Eckists who
              pay an Annual Membership
              Donation Fee.

              Really! If not to the
              public, as there should
              be, why not for EK
              members?

              It really points out
              that Klemp is hiding
              something. Now, he'd
              probably twist it around
              and say something like,

              "If you question things
              this shows you don't
              fully trust the Mahanta,
              and therefore, this is
              why you fail with your
              Spiritual Exercises and
              fail in life and fail to
              achieve a higher consciousness
              that is expressed via
              the outer initiations...
              Catch-22!"

              As I've said before...
              Eckankar is a trap
              and the "test" is to
              see the TRUTH and
              the reality of this!

              Prometheus
            • Janice Pfeiffer
              Thank you Prometheus _973 for clarifying some about how eckankar finances work.  You told me a lot more than I knew before.  The problem I have with removing
              Message 6 of 6 , Feb 16, 2012
              • 0 Attachment
                Thank you Prometheus _973 for clarifying some about how eckankar finances work.  You told me a lot more than I knew before.  The problem I have with removing nonprofit status from most Christian churches is that a lot of them do charity work.  A lot of them actively give back to the community where as eckankar and scientology and others that are considered cults don't do anything but rake in the money with out any benefit going to the community or to even members.  I know there are good people in eckankar.  I know they are not able to see that they are being used to make the elites in eckankar more wealthy.  But it is obvious that eckankar only does what glorifies eckankar.  They don't feed the hungry, house the homeless, or provide any assistance of a material kind to those in need at all.  I know churches that do help the communities.  To me that is the difference between a real non profit org and one that just uses the status to fool people into donating their, money and time toward roping other people in.  I have seen some non profit orgs that spend only a small portion of the money that is donated to the actual work they are supposed to be doing while they give fat bonuses to their executives.  These things should be stopped too.  If a group is truly a non profit org then it should run strictly on donated time and money.  Once you hire paid executives, the real work is second to big salaries.  I know orgs have to have a system of order and administrative duties are needed but there are always people who are willing to serve when they believe in a cause.  Nonprofit status is easily used to cover up greed.  I just feel that it isn't done by all.  In this time when the economy is so bad, there are a lot of people in need and there are orgs working to meet those needs.  Maybe more stringent requirements are needed by the government to define what is a nonprofit org.  I believe the first requirement is that they should be benefiting others more than their own organizational needs.  In fact, I think that is about the only thing that should allow an org to be called a nonprofit.  That's my humble opinion anyway.  Thanks

                --- On Wed, 2/15/12, prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...> wrote:

                From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
                Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Why Doesn't Klemp Offer Annual Reports?
                To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Wednesday, February 15, 2012, 11:42 PM

                 
                Hello Janice and All,

                Janice wrote:

                Maybe if the IRS heard from enough
                ex eckist about how they were scammed,
                losing their nonprofit status might
                be possible.

                ME: IMO-Scamming has nothing to
                do with Eckankar losing its non-profit
                status because all religions are scams
                and are protected by law. However,
                the IRS could be notified of certain
                improprieties that would jeopardize
                them as a non-profit org.


                I don't have a problem with more
                traditional churches having nonprofit
                status because most don't sell books
                and charge fees for every little thing.

                ME: I have a problem with all churches!
                They all have their money making ploys
                and twist the truth. Some, simply, rely
                on donations more than book sales,
                lessons and retreats like the "New Age"
                scammers tend to do.


                I was in long enough to see that in
                eckankar you are expected to pay for
                everything including the introductory
                books that are handed out free to
                prospective converts.

                ME: In Catholic school they would
                have jars with the names of those
                running for class offices. A penny
                was a vote and the Church kept the
                pennies!


                All I can say is anytime you want to
                start a petition concerning eckankar
                nonprofit status to send to IRS, you
                can count on my signature for sure.

                ME: Thanks, but I'll pass on
                any petition. Just sharing
                some of the nonsense we
                experienced firsthand might
                be enough for some Eckists
                to wake up, open their eyes,
                connect-the-dots and smell
                the coffee (or tea) once again!

                I freely admit that I would like to
                see Minneapolis get a little "payback"
                for all the damage I feel they have
                caused everyone who served their
                selfish greed.

                ME: Time is the great equalizer!
                Unlike the fictional and immortal
                Rebazar... Gail (whatever her last
                name is now) and the Klemps' will
                pay! Peter too!


                When has eckankar ever done
                anything that wasn't for directly
                benefiting eckankar corp?

                ME: Well, locally and individually
                there are some well meaning
                people and this includes those
                staffers at the ESC. They're deluded,
                of course, but they've been tricked
                into believing the hype. It makes
                one feel good and it's fun to pretend!


                I read ford Johnson's book and
                it was very enlightening but I don't
                recall him divulging anything to do
                with the finances either.

                ME: A RESA only knows of what's
                happening in their region, unless,
                HK or Peter throws some tid-bits
                or scraps their way in order to
                make them feel special and trusted.
                Of course, they do share and
                discuss info with other RESAs.
                Locally, each Satsang Society has
                it's own bank account. These used
                to be higher amounts, $50,000
                more or less, and the local CFO
                would invest some of the money
                in short term bonds etc. so that
                this could be used for operating
                costs and special events. Now,
                however, the Satsang Societies
                are instructed to send "surplus"
                money to the ESC, annually, and
                to maintain lower balances in their
                treasuries. Most local Eckists don't
                realize that all of the ECK Center's
                furniture, TVs, DVRs, pictures,
                books (even those they paid for
                and display), etc. and all of the
                money that their local Satsang
                Society possesses belongs to
                Eckankar.

                He [Ford] was probably in a position
                to know a lot about those things
                or at least I would think so.

                ME: Like I said, I doubt that Ford
                knew where the bodies were buried.
                Only the CFO, and the accountants,
                along with Peter, Joan, and Harold
                know where and how much money
                there is. I'm sure that Klemp doesn't
                receive a huge paycheck but that's
                simply a smoke screen. When looking
                at properties, health care benefits,
                retirement, his expense account
                and other perks (not counting Joan's
                and Peter's) there's probably a lot
                of money hidden away offshore.

                Prometheus

                prometheus wrote:

                Hello Janice and All,
                I'd like to see all religions
                and their properties taxed.

                Treat them like every other
                business.

                There can be no separation
                of church and state when
                the state is not treating
                churches equally with other
                businesses and is, thus,
                giving them special protections
                and privileges. Most of these
                non-profit organizations
                are, simply, money making
                scams. Politicians and Preachers!

                One reason Eckankar moved
                to MN is because non-profits
                in CA are required to publicly
                divulge their financial records.

                Still, even though Eckankar
                isn't required to divulge their
                financial records it's still the
                right thing to do. Really! Why
                not?

                Yes, I'd like to see Eckankar
                lose its non-profit status.

                Actually, they could. The
                Annual Membership Donation
                Fee is tied into Initiations
                because one has to be up-
                to-date (current) in order
                to advance. Therefore, one
                is paying a set fee for both
                a "spiritual" service and
                a product (a membership)
                but they are calling it a
                "donation."

                The H.I. Letter and The Mystic
                World are Tangible Products
                that are being sold with the
                Required Cost for the ECK
                Membership. Thus, Eckankar
                memberships now become
                For Profit "fees" because one
                is paying a set price for
                tangible products that are
                tax free. Anything less than
                the fixed price will not buy
                the product, thus, it's not
                a donation.

                Donations, under law, cannot
                be set or fixed amounts. Any
                amount given (not required)
                qualifies for what is called a
                "donation."

                And, when there are strings
                attached this brings into
                question their non-profit
                status let alone their "spiritual"
                mission as a valid religion.
                But what's "valid" for a religion?

                Sometimes a donation is referred
                to as a "donation from the heart"
                because there is no fixed amount
                and it's freely given out of love.
                This is not the case with Eckankar's
                Membership "Donation." It's a
                set fee!

                However, there are other areas
                such as the Missionary or Building
                Fund where Donations are given
                in non-set amounts and where it
                is clear that the money is freely
                given (with no strings attached)
                as a donation.

                But, the same does not apply
                to paying for those Major and
                Regional Seminar Sessions.
                The cost of attending is supposed
                to be a "donation" but Eckankar
                Requires a Fixed (donation)
                Fee or else you don't get in.
                This is the same with the
                annual memberships! You
                pay the fixed price/fee in
                order to retain your membership
                and initiations and to advance
                and to receive your H.I. Letter
                and Mystic World.

                Sure, they call it a "donation"
                but this is just another lie!
                Both of these practices violates
                the non-profit requirements
                involving donations versus fees.

                Anywho, maybe one of the
                local Christian churches in
                Chanhassen will be tipped
                off to this abnormality and
                file a suit or report them
                to the IRS in order to have
                the cancer invading them
                cut out.

                What's really funny is that
                after so many years Eckists
                just rationalize more and
                more away. Everyone knows
                that Membership and Seminar
                Fees are Not Donations.
                Eckists know to call it a
                donation and to pretend
                that it is, but it's a lie and
                everyone knows it. Well, not
                everyone. Many leaders and
                non-leaders turn a Blind Eye
                to this and to other lies...
                it's what they have to do
                to maintain their belief...
                the illusion of "as if."

                Prometheus

                Janice wrote:
                Very good point prometheus_973.
                Most non profits do but then
                again eckankar is far from
                being non profit even if they
                have that status with the government
                as far as taxes.

                I would like to see all like them
                lose there non profit status but
                to do so would probably cause
                all churches to lose theirs.

                At least they should be required
                to do the annual report. I am
                wondering what kind of documentation
                if any orgs like that have to
                submit to the government
                annually or if after they have
                the non profit status they are
                exempt from any paper work
                also.

                I don't know that much about
                it but it might be worthy of
                some research.

                Prometheus wrote:

                Hello All,
                I recall that Klemp
                has stated that he
                was Lutheran and
                attended Lutheran
                private school and
                was in Seminary for
                two years. I believe
                he said he was in
                the Missouri Synod
                or was it the smaller
                Wisconsin Synod?

                Anyway, it's interesting
                researching various
                Lutheran Churches
                and which synod they
                belong to. Plus, there
                are regional synods
                in each state!

                My point? It's rather
                easy to find their
                annual reports on
                the Internet. They
                make these public
                and list names and
                charities and other
                associations.

                Why doesn't Klemp
                offer Annual Reports
                from Eckankar?

                It's very strange that
                Annual Reports aren't
                even available to card
                holding Eckists who
                pay an Annual Membership
                Donation Fee.

                Really! If not to the
                public, as there should
                be, why not for EK
                members?

                It really points out
                that Klemp is hiding
                something. Now, he'd
                probably twist it around
                and say something like,

                "If you question things
                this shows you don't
                fully trust the Mahanta,
                and therefore, this is
                why you fail with your
                Spiritual Exercises and
                fail in life and fail to
                achieve a higher consciousness
                that is expressed via
                the outer initiations...
                Catch-22!"

                As I've said before...
                Eckankar is a trap
                and the "test" is to
                see the TRUTH and
                the reality of this!

                Prometheus

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