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Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Klemp Rationalizes His Fraud

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  • Janice Pfeiffer
    I did a lot of self discovery and study of various kinds of spiritual paths before I ever heard of eckankar.  It didn t prevent me from being suckered in. 
    Message 1 of 12 , Feb 7, 2012
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      I did a lot of self discovery and study of various kinds of spiritual paths before I ever heard of eckankar.  It didn't prevent me from being suckered in.  Further more, I didn't see the truth until  I was told by an actual HI how things really happened with initiations.  I don't know why he told me except he felt some compassion for my confusion and some how knew I needed real answers instead of more eck jargon.  At this point, I don't see any sense in blaming others who were mislead no matter how they performed as eckist or how they are handling their past associations with eckankar now.  You do become brain washed and it takes a lot of will power to give it up.   Eckankar is a world unto itself.  It is the perpetrators and those in Minneapolis who are keeping the deception going.  If any one feels a need to express their anger in any way, I feel it is best placed on the so called leaders of eckankar.  jepfeiffer

      --- On Tue, 2/7/12, Russ Rodnick <russrodnick@...> wrote:

      From: Russ Rodnick <russrodnick@...>
      Subject: Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Klemp Rationalizes His Fraud
      To: "EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com" <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
      Date: Tuesday, February 7, 2012, 10:41 PM

       
      I won't disagree concerning your enlightening experiences and I am sure too that even in Eckankar some people find these type of experiences.
       
      experiences further are phenomenal. I do not recommend believing that these are signs of knowing what truth is. they point the way in my opinion to something which is deeper, and more complete.
       
      But too the veracity of one's teachers cannot be questioned. and if these teachers are merely unconscous transmitters of ideas that they do not really understand themselves and not understanding misuse these ideas to gratify their own egos howver sweet these egotistical liars are you as the sincere student would probably be able to use these methods and ascertain some truths but how deeply and completely and why would you want to stay in Eckankar after looking behind the curtain?
      I worry that phenomena can give a false security and Eckankar gives plenty of false security.
       
      I used to think compromising thoughts too, and for some it might prove to be a good. but it is a trap too. That's the thing I would be caution about.
       
      The search for meaning and truth is all important to me. Deeper realization of being is possible with an independant attitude. Study of the self, being and personality.
       
      Anyway, truth is not easy though sometimes it seems so, in my experience.
      From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2012 11:35 PM
      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Klemp Rationalizes His Fraud

       
      Hello Apollonius and All,
      I'm not wrong. One cannot
      find enlightenment via the
      the false teachings of Eckankar.
      It's called delusional, wishful,
      and magical thinking.

      However, it's possible that
      one might find enlightenment
      despite Eckankar and by seeing
      the truth about Eckankar and
      that of all religions and group
      manmade dogmas. Man created
      God in man's image and man
      created religion as well. Women
      created mankind, but men still
      won't give them credit! LOL!

      As for the Blue Light thingie.
      That's something that many
      people will see irregardless of
      Eckankar. It's been proven and
      written about and that's how
      PT found it. He stole everything
      and probably never had an
      original thought worth anything.

      Remember, the liar Twitchell
      didn't create the Mahanta or
      the Blue Light of the Mahanta
      until Jan. 1969. This has been
      proven via past Wisdom Notes.

      Yes, I too knew Helen and
      Millie (Workman) Moore.
      Did you, too, go to HK's
      Satsang class with Helen
      across the desert of LV?

      Just because you had a
      personal spiritual experience
      and connect that to some
      of PT's H.I.s, tricked by this
      same charismatic conman,
      doesn't mean you should
      give Klemp a free pass. He's
      done much more harm than
      good by making Eckists
      codependent upon him.

      The lies do matter!

      If you haven't figured that out
      you're as deluded as the rest.

      That one experience you had,
      long ago, was probably "caused"
      by your belief in Eckankar and
      influenced by other people and
      the nature of the situation. All
      of you were looking/seeking for
      something, a sign, and a feeling
      and it's what you and your mental
      impressions created/deciphered
      and found.

      I'm not saying that we don't
      or can't have real spiritual
      experiences. But, when we
      do it certainly isn't because
      of Eckankar, or Klemp. This
      belief and person are not
      spiritual conduits! Just the
      opposite! Belief in Eckankar
      and in "the Mahanta" will
      only produce deluding Astral
      experiences which appear
      greater and "spiritual" in
      the mind's eye!

      I, too, have experienced
      sounds like running water,
      thunder, buzzing bees,
      violins and flutes with
      blue, yellow, golden and
      bright white lights and
      more! So what! That's
      merely the phenomenal
      world! Much was experienced
      prior to, some during,
      and even greater things
      after Eckankar!

      If you believe in the KAL,
      then, deceivers and liars
      who misrepresent truth
      are of the KAL.

      Therefore, as you said, Twitchell
      and Klemp with their distortions
      and plagiarisms of Radhasoami
      and Ruhani Satsang would be of
      the KAL because they have taken
      upon themselves to use the trickster
      trappings and characteristics of KAL.

      But, all religions are of the KAL
      or Satan. These religions that
      Twitchell stole dogma from are
      just as deceitful and off the mark
      spiritually.

      What Eckankar is selling and
      what you are receiving is not
      Truth! If you don't understand
      the ramifications of this, then,
      you are as deluded and lost as
      they are. Enjoy your peyote!

      Prometheus
      BTW- RUMI worshipped Muhammad.
      This was who he prayed to and
      wrote poems to. Thus, he couldn't
      have been all that enlightened. Mo
      wasn't a very nice guy. And, even
      Twitchell said Rumi was merely a
      "follower" of ECK. Of course, the
      physical plane is of the "ECK" too
      correct?

      apollonius wrote:
      Greetings Prometheus and all,

      I have read with great interest your postings over the years. I must however
      disagree with your hypothesis that Spiritual Freedom can never be reached in
      Eckankar. In 1973 when I joined Eckankar it was accepted that the LEM was GOD.
      However that year, Helen Frye, Pat Henderson and Charlie Wallace (later Millie
      Moore and Helen Baird) took me under their wings and mentored me to a better
      realization. It was, they said, "The Sound current that was the MOST important
      part of the students growth, not a Master or even a LEM". It was when sleeping
      by Oak creek in Helen's front yard that I first heard the single note of the
      flute above the flowing waters of Oak Creek, Sedona. A most
      magical/Mystical/Real occurrence I can assure you.

      The ECK/Battica/Spirit had appeared to me earlier in life while touring as a
      professional performer in the 1960's. Each night on stage I looked out to the
      thousands in attendance and saw a blue haze/light surrounding all. I did not
      know what this was until much later, but I knew at the time that this light gave
      me comfort.

      Because of this one realization I will never criticize Paul/Harold/Eckankar for
      making up names and using other paths' verbiage. It just doesn't matter once you
      have/hear the true sound current as I did those many years ago sleeping in
      Helen's front yard. IT set me free for all my 33 years in Eckankar and beyond to
      this day.

      Everything depends on the individual creating their own universe. "Unfold your
      own Myth" as Rumi said. The teachings do give you the tools but can't actually
      do it for you despite any claims to the contrary. It is absolutely what YOU do
      with the tools that makes for spiritual advancement, not any initiations or
      recognition from the physical org called Eckankar. Spiritual
      advancement/realization is not hindered by any physical org or person unless you
      allow it. No one can be conned if they are sincere in the light and sound.

      Keep up the good work,

      From the Heart,

      Apollonius

      >
      > It's interesting to see
      > and hear what the religious
      > tricksters and conmen
      > come up with in order
      > to rationalize their guilt
      > away. They will claim to
      > be providing a "service"
      > for people... to comfort
      > them and take away their
      > fears.
      >
      >
      > Klemp certainly gives Lip
      > Service to this claim:
      >
      > How do the teachings
      > of Eckankar help people?
      >
      > The most important
      > concept we need to
      > get across is the continuity
      > of life and going from
      > this world to the next
      > and beyond. People worry
      > most about meeting
      > the end of this life. [end]
      >
      >
      > Really? I disagree!
      >
      > Now, it could be that
      > Klemp is concerned with
      > death since he was born
      > in 1942. He's getting closer
      > and closer to the grave.
      >
      > And, I'm sure that many
      > from the Baby Boomer
      > generation (the generation
      > Klemp dislikes most) are
      > thinking more about their
      > health and the end of life.
      >
      > But there are those living
      > in politically unstable countries
      > who have more immediate
      > fears concerning day-to-
      > day life and freedoms.
      >
      > What many people
      > are concerned about,
      > here and now, in this
      > present time versus the
      > future is having enough
      > money to pay the bills in
      > order to continue and
      > maintain a healthy life
      > style. And, not being
      > alone and, thus, dying
      > alone is an important
      > issue too.
      >
      > Let's face it. People
      > need God more than
      > God needs them, unless,
      > you're Klemp... a false
      > God called Mahanta!
      >
      > Klemp needs his flock
      > of suckers. Even if HK
      > stepped aside for the
      > next conman to take
      > over he'd still be writing
      > his trashy books and
      > be posing as a God of
      > some sorts. Maybe he'd
      > move to some private
      > island and start rumors
      > that he had been reborn
      > as Rebazar had. Klemp
      > wants to continue the
      > myth to be remembered!
      >
      > Young people certainly
      > aren't concerned about
      > death... they're concerned
      > about finding a spouse,
      > and having a good job,
      > a place to live, and money
      > for more education and
      > a car, and gas.... maybe
      > a new computer or i-phone/
      > droid.
      >
      > In truth, HK is trying
      > to purge himself of
      > his Guilt for not only
      > having deficiencies
      > as a God/Master but
      > for his continued deceit.
      >
      > Consequently, he'll boost
      > his ego and self-important
      > image and, thus, feel
      > good hand important
      > that he's providing a
      > "spiritual" service for
      > the New Age segment
      > of the population who
      > are attracted to Eckankar's
      > (Twitchell's) Western
      > twist and edit of Radhasoami
      > and Ruhani Satsang.
      >
      > But, it (religion) is all
      > the same... just different
      > dogma and jargon. Klemp's
      > Eckankar is no exception!
      >
      > HK has millions squirreled
      > away in an off-shore
      > account so money and
      > financial security is not
      > a problem for him. Time
      > is Klemp's big enemy
      > and fear. That's why he
      > wants to be remembered
      > as being a great spiritual
      > master even though his
      > followers are deluded.
      >
      > Don't Eckists "worship"
      > Klemp, their Mahanta?
      > Sure! That's Klemp's plan
      > to trick them! But, he
      > sees it as being for their
      > own good... he's helping
      > them to find peace and
      > happiness without fear.
      > Eckists should believe
      > in themselves, as Soul,
      > and not give-up Soul's
      > authority to decide and
      > know. Initiations are
      > bogus anyway and are
      > simply used to dangle
      > in front of people....
      > that's the real "plus
      > element" in Eckankar.
      > There's Service, Coin,
      > Time, Promises of
      > Protection and Guidance
      > "plus" that next initiation!
      >
      > Look at the Spiritual
      > Exercises of EK that
      > are designed around
      > this purpose. Eckists
      > will dream of, contemplate
      > upon, and beseech
      > their God/Mahanta
      > for all sorts of things.
      >
      > These S.E.s are designed
      > for Eckists to see HK's
      > physical image don't
      > they? Thus, the Mahanta
      > brainwashing is reenforced
      > over and over on a daily
      > basis.
      >
      > And, this is why it's so
      > difficult to escape from
      > codependency. There
      > can never be real/truthful
      > "Spiritual Freedom" for
      > Eckists. They will always
      > need Klemp... he's their
      > crutch and their meth.
      >
      > Prometheus



    • apollonius2k
      Good points Prometheus!
      Message 2 of 12 , Feb 8, 2012
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        Good points Prometheus!

        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello Apollonius and All,
        > I'll respond to your
        > comments below.
        >
        > apollonius wrote:
        > Hi Prometheus,
        >
        > Many, and rightfully so,
        > have strong feelings of
        > resentment for being led
        > astray by Eckankar.
        >
        > If you listen to the reasoning
        > of today's Hi's (well, the
        > older ones anyway) as to
        > why they still follow Eckankar,
        > this rhetorical question
        > will many times be heard
        > as the answer, "Why throw
        > the baby (Eckankar) out with
        > the bath water (Paul/HK's myth)?
        >
        > I have never let HK "off the
        > hook". He has had 30 years
        > to set the record straight
        > regarding Paul's made up
        > hierarchy and writings, and
        > is yet to do it. Also, It appears
        > that he is bereft of spiritual
        > experiences to write about
        > as multiple times I caught
        > him using my experiences
        > and others in his HI teaching
        > lessons.
        >
        >
        >
        > *****************************
        > ME: The truth as to why longtime
        > H.I.s have remained in Eckankar
        > has nothing to do with Truth. It's
        > all about fear and ego! They fear
        > not having their EK friends and
        > family members in their lives but,
        > also, not having their admirers.
        > Plus, look at all of that time and
        > money they have invested and
        > the initiations they've received.
        > Many were "grandfathered" in
        > without having to jump through
        > the hoops that HK requires today.
        > Besides, there's always the hope
        > of getting that 8th or 9th Outer
        > initiation. This is why the "baby"
        > isn't thrown out with the dirty
        > bath water... and why the bath
        > water is used over and over,
        > again and again.
        > ******************************
        >
        >
        > In the early days we read and
        > were told that the books and
        > myth Paul Twitchell built was
        > absolute truth. For me, there
        > had been many prior years of
        > extra-physical experiences
        > including the blue and other
        > lights dating back to when I
        > was three years old. I really
        > didn't care about the myth or
        > the LEM so much as the wealth
        > of research contained therein.
        > How the concepts bounced
        > around inside my little sphere
        > of consciousness and took me
        > to a different place. These ideas
        > could be tried and discarded
        > or kept as "My" individual
        > truths.
        >
        >
        >
        > ****************************
        > ME: Twitchell, as a conman,
        > learned that many people
        > have many things in common.
        > Everyone dreams. And if one
        > places attention upon the
        > mysteries and myth of the
        > spiritual realm they will dream
        > and "see" things. I'm not
        > saying that your experiences,
        > especially, as a child weren't
        > real, but I also know that
        > parents and adults can
        > mess with what a child thinks
        > is real. Sometimes it's done
        > out of "fun" by a somewhat
        > deviant parent or relative.
        > Sometimes, the fun is more
        > of a cultural/religious thing
        > like with Santa Claus or the
        > Easter Bunny.
        > *****************************
        >
        >
        > As I rose through the
        > ranks of Eckankar there
        > was a peculiar thing that
        > I noticed. The Mahdi were
        > not practicing what they
        > preached and it seemed
        > like I was always in their
        > cross hairs. This special
        > attention and the energy
        > they spewed uncontrolled,
        > allowed me to become
        > much stronger. There
        > were many arguments
        > that ensued all along the
        > way, even with Darwin.
        > My point was always
        > that it is the individual
        > path that counts, not the
        > group or worship of a
        > leader. If the LEM didn't
        > know about me personally
        > (which I discovered to be
        > true the first time I met
        > Darwin) then I was on my
        > own.
        >
        >
        > ***************************
        > ME: Yes, there's a lot of
        > ego associated with being
        > an H.I. (leader). Ego was
        > always rationalized away
        > and looked upon as a
        > "teaching tool" or as a "coat"
        > that could be put on and
        > taken off. It wasn't true
        > but it did help to explain
        > away the personality changes.
        > I know that when I was at
        > ECK events, in leadership
        > roles, I almost always came
        > across as being serious.
        > I knew that I was being
        > watched and evaluated
        > and had to be careful to
        > portray myself well. I, also,
        > had to be cognizant of the
        > proper procedures to follow
        > which are spelled out in
        > the "Guidelines." All of
        > this was quite stressful.
        > Why? Because I saw first
        > hand what could happen
        > to those who fell out-of-
        > grace with the RESA.
        >
        > Yes, Klemp wouldn't know
        > anything about his H.I.s,
        > either, if it wasn't for the
        > reports his RESAs send to
        > the ESC. Everyone has a
        > file and black marks and
        > red flags can have initiations
        > and positions put on a
        > three-five year (or longer)
        > hold. Sometimes there are
        > things put into your ESC
        > file and sometimes it's
        > just that one RESA.
        > ******************************
        > MORE COMMENTS BELOW
        > ******************************
        >
        > Prometheus said,
        > >Yes, we all need to cut the
        > > ties to any and all religions.
        > > Religions are distortions
        > > of Truth that are designed
        > > around mass consumption.
        > >
        > > A group consciousness,
        > > and even that within a
        > > "circle of initiation," will
        > > always be lower or stunted
        > > than what the individual
        > > can/will achieve when free
        > > and unimpeded. Of course,
        > > all initiations, of any sort,
        > > are fraudulent!
        > >
        > > Consciousness is not handed
        > > out by a demigod and printed
        > > on an EK membership card.
        >
        > Agreed
        >
        > To my knowledge, Rumi
        > couched his verbiage
        > in the terms of the day.
        > According to what I have
        > researched, Rumi's teacher
        > Shamsi was murdered
        > for blasphemy against
        > Islam.
        >
        >
        > ****************************
        > ME: It's usually thought that
        > Rumi's companions killed Shams
        > because they were jealous of
        > him. After all, much of Rumi's
        > poetry was inspired by the love
        > he had for his friend and master.....
        > Shams.
        >
        > However, Shams was Sunni.
        > So, it could be that he was
        > murdered by the more orthodox
        > Shiites. IMO-Only a Shiite would
        > say that Shams (a Sunni) was
        > blasphemous.
        > ********************************
        >
        > Though I can honestly say
        > I never met any of Paul
        > Twitchell's masters (and
        > I doubt he did either) there
        > have been times in my
        > life when a "helper" appeared
        > out of nowhere and guided
        > me in a new direction with
        > new ideas to think about.
        > Whether I call them masters
        > or any other term is irrelevant
        > to me, they assisted my path
        > and that's all that was needed.
        >
        > ******************************
        > ME: I, too, have had experiences
        > throughout life where it seemed
        > I was being protected (mostly from
        > myself) or was receiving guidance.
        > Early on, Jesus would appear to
        > me. I was a seeker and always
        > seemed to be beseeching some
        > spiritual authority for answers/
        > guidance. But most people do
        > the same! That's how/why the
        > gods were created and, one reason,
        > as to why religion was created.
        > The other reasons for religions
        > is to control the masses by
        > alleviating their fears and giving
        > hope of a better, pain free, afterlife.
        > Plus, it's a money maker for those
        > at the top of the hierarchy.
        >
        >
        > Anyway, it was no surprise to
        > see "EK Masters" in my dreams.
        > It's funny that Eckankar validates
        > itself with a handful of testimonials
        > from people (innocent newbies)
        > who claim they met a certain EK
        > Master "prior" to joining Eckankar!
        > It's kind of like (not really) St. Paul's
        > experience with seeing Jesus while
        > on the road to Damascus. Except
        > Paul/Saul was blinded for three
        > days. Hey, is that, and the Trinity,
        > how Paul came up with/invented
        > the, superstitious, EK Principle
        > of the Threes?
        > *********************************
        >
        >
        > Cheers,
        >
        > Apollonius
        >
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