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Fw: Klemp Rationalizes His Fraud

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  • Gnothe Seauton
    ... From: santimvah To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous-owner@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 6, 2012 11:29 AM Subject: Re: Klemp
    Message 1 of 2 , Feb 7, 2012
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      ----- Forwarded Message -----
      From: santimvah <santimvah@...>
      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous-owner@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, February 6, 2012 11:29 AM
      Subject: Re: Klemp Rationalizes His Fraud


      Apollonious2k,

      "Why throw the baby out with the bath water?"

      I have heard the same line from Patti Simpson. It's a neat little facsimile template to wrap oneself in and feel good about yourself in the process.

      Your presumption that *eckankar* is the baby is flawed and self-serving.

      That yourself and all those older HIs you allude to are capable of rationalising away your knowledge about matters and hold to this position after 30 something years and yet say and do nothing about it is pure cowardice and living a lie.

      And I have nothing but contempt for this approach by all of you people, and condemn it outright for the ongoing unnecessary harm it has caused countless people whilst maintaining your silence and massaging your own self-importance at the expense of others being repeatedly burnt by their experiences within the organisation.

      None of you will be let off the hook either.

      For if what you say is true about Harold and the myths, then it is not Harold that is responsible for it continuing for 30 plus years it is ALL OF YOU acting in secret and in concert behind the scenes and doing nothing who are really responsible for what has occurred and is still occurring today.

      Sean Arundell
      (I won't hide behind a pseudonym!!!)

      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "apollonius2k" <apollonius2k@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi Prometheus,
      >
      > Many, and rightfully so, have strong feelings of resentment for being led astray by Eckankar. If you listen to the reasoning of today's Hi's (well, the older ones anyway) as to why they still follow Eckankar, this rhetorical question will many times be heard as the answer, "Why throw the baby (Eckankar) out with the bath water (Paul/HK's myth)? I have never let HK "off the hook". He has had 30 years to set the record straight regarding Paul's made up hierarchy and writings, and is yet to do it. Also, It appears that he is bereft of spiritual experiences to write about as multiple times I caught him using my experiences and others in his HI teaching lessons.
      >
      > In the early days we read and were told that the books and myth Paul Twitchell built was absolute truth. For me, there had been many prior years of extra-physical experiences including the blue and other lights dating back to when I was three years old. I really didn't care about the myth or the LEM so much as the wealth of research contained therein. How the concepts bounced around inside my little sphere of consciousness and took me to a different place. These ideas could be tried and discarded or kept as "My" individual truths.
      >
      > As I rose through the ranks of Eckankar there was a peculiar thing that I noticed. The Mahdi were not practicing what they preached and it seemed like I was always in their cross hairs. This special attention and the energy they spewed uncontrolled, allowed me to become much stronger. There were many arguments that ensued all along the way, even with Darwin. My point was always that it is the individual path that counts, not the group or worship of a leader. If the LEM didn't know about me personally (which I discovered to be true the first time I met Darwin) then I was on my own.
      >
      > Prometheus said,
      > >Yes, we all need to cut the
      > > ties to any and all religions.
      > > Religions are distortions
      > > of Truth that are designed
      > > around mass consumption.
      > >
      > > A group consciousness,
      > > and even that within a
      > > "circle of initiation," will
      > > always be lower or stunted
      > > than what the individual
      > > can/will achieve when free
      > > and unimpeded. Of course,
      > > all initiations, of any sort,
      > > are fraudulent!
      > >
      > > Consciousness is not handed
      > > out by a demigod and printed
      > > on an EK membership card.
      >
      > Agreed
      >
      > To my knowledge, Rumi couched his verbiage in the terms of the day. According to what I have researched, Rumi's teacher Shamsi was murdered for blasphemy against Islam.
      >
      > Though I can honestly say I never met any of Paul Twitchell's masters (and I doubt he did either) there have been times in my life when a "helper" appeared out of nowhere and guided me in a new direction with new ideas to think about. Whether I call them masters or any other term is irrelevant to me, they assisted my path and that's all that was needed.
      >
      >
      > Cheers,
      >
      > Apollonius
      >
      > ---
      >




    • Janice Pfeiffer
      Mr Arundell,   I feel you are being way too harsh on Apollonius and the other ex hi initiates.   Unless you have been through it, you have no idea what it
      Message 2 of 2 , Feb 7, 2012
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        Mr Arundell,
         
        I feel you are being way too harsh on Apollonius and the other ex hi initiates.   Unless you have been through it, you have no idea what it is like. I am not a very impressionable person but I was lured in and stayed in for 5 years.  Yes, I would like to see more ex eckist take a more active part in exposing eckankar myself but that is for individuals to decide.  From what I have read about the way Darwin and others were treated, it could be very risky.  Also,  It is hard enough to deal with getting out after being given a steady diet of eckankar tripe for a long, long time.  Please consider your words.  There was wisdom in the teachings of eckankar.  Unfortunately, it was stolen wisdom.  Eckankar is like all other cults.  After you are in, you want to believe it.  You fool yourself into believing even at the very tme that you start seeing the truth.  It is very hard to let go.  Lighten up please.  Show a little compassion.  I ask these things respectfully.  jepfeiffer

        --- On Wed, 2/8/12, Gnothe Seauton <prometheus_973@...> wrote:

        From: Gnothe Seauton <prometheus_973@...>
        Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Fw: Klemp Rationalizes His Fraud
        To: "eckankarsurvivorsanonymous@yahoogroups.com" <eckankarsurvivorsanonymous@yahoogroups.com>
        Date: Wednesday, February 8, 2012, 1:44 AM

         

        ----- Forwarded Message -----
        From: santimvah <santimvah@...>
        To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous-owner@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Monday, February 6, 2012 11:29 AM
        Subject: Re: Klemp Rationalizes His Fraud


        Apollonious2k,

        "Why throw the baby out with the bath water?"

        I have heard the same line from Patti Simpson. It's a neat little facsimile template to wrap oneself in and feel good about yourself in the process.

        Your presumption that *eckankar* is the baby is flawed and self-serving.

        That yourself and all those older HIs you allude to are capable of rationalising away your knowledge about matters and hold to this position after 30 something years and yet say and do nothing about it is pure cowardice and living a lie.

        And I have nothing but contempt for this approach by all of you people, and condemn it outright for the ongoing unnecessary harm it has caused countless people whilst maintaining your silence and massaging your own self-importance at the expense of others being repeatedly burnt by their experiences within the organisation.

        None of you will be let off the hook either.

        For if what you say is true about Harold and the myths, then it is not Harold that is responsible for it continuing for 30 plus years it is ALL OF YOU acting in secret and in concert behind the scenes and doing nothing who are really responsible for what has occurred and is still occurring today.

        Sean Arundell
        (I won't hide behind a pseudonym!!!)

        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "apollonius2k" <apollonius2k@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Prometheus,
        >
        > Many, and rightfully so, have strong feelings of resentment for being led astray by Eckankar. If you listen to the reasoning of today's Hi's (well, the older ones anyway) as to why they still follow Eckankar, this rhetorical question will many times be heard as the answer, "Why throw the baby (Eckankar) out with the bath water (Paul/HK's myth)? I have never let HK "off the hook". He has had 30 years to set the record straight regarding Paul's made up hierarchy and writings, and is yet to do it. Also, It appears that he is bereft of spiritual experiences to write about as multiple times I caught him using my experiences and others in his HI teaching lessons.
        >
        > In the early days we read and were told that the books and myth Paul Twitchell built was absolute truth. For me, there had been many prior years of extra-physical experiences including the blue and other lights dating back to when I was three years old. I really didn't care about the myth or the LEM so much as the wealth of research contained therein. How the concepts bounced around inside my little sphere of consciousness and took me to a different place. These ideas could be tried and discarded or kept as "My" individual truths.
        >
        > As I rose through the ranks of Eckankar there was a peculiar thing that I noticed. The Mahdi were not practicing what they preached and it seemed like I was always in their cross hairs. This special attention and the energy they spewed uncontrolled, allowed me to become much stronger. There were many arguments that ensued all along the way, even with Darwin. My point was always that it is the individual path that counts, not the group or worship of a leader. If the LEM didn't know about me personally (which I discovered to be true the first time I met Darwin) then I was on my own.
        >
        > Prometheus said,
        > >Yes, we all need to cut the
        > > ties to any and all religions.
        > > Religions are distortions
        > > of Truth that are designed
        > > around mass consumption.
        > >
        > > A group consciousness,
        > > and even that within a
        > > "circle of initiation," will
        > > always be lower or stunted
        > > than what the individual
        > > can/will achieve when free
        > > and unimpeded. Of course,
        > > all initiations, of any sort,
        > > are fraudulent!
        > >
        > > Consciousness is not handed
        > > out by a demigod and printed
        > > on an EK membership card.
        >
        > Agreed
        >
        > To my knowledge, Rumi couched his verbiage in the terms of the day. According to what I have researched, Rumi's teacher Shamsi was murdered for blasphemy against Islam.
        >
        > Though I can honestly say I never met any of Paul Twitchell's masters (and I doubt he did either) there have been times in my life when a "helper" appeared out of nowhere and guided me in a new direction with new ideas to think about. Whether I call them masters or any other term is irrelevant to me, they assisted my path and that's all that was needed.
        >
        >
        > Cheers,
        >
        > Apollonius
        >
        > ---
        >




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