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Re: Akatha and eck masters, masters of the path of the Ego

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  • Tyson
    ... Yes I believe there are spiritual masters. I do not believe that it requires more than one initiation for the spiritual eye to be opened. Any spiritual
    Message 1 of 4 , Jan 12, 2012
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      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "allen4447" <winningedge@...> wrote:
      >
      > Good points however it must be remembered that in most complicated arias of life teachers, and guides are used. The word master is not as in master slave but as in a master carpenter or a master mechanic.
      > The attainment of Self and God realization and the ability to consciously travel through the plains of God requires guidance if its to be truly mastered.
      >
      > Actually the idea that one can do this without a true master is the most egotistical thing of all.
      > Name one Great concert Violinist or Concert Pianist who did not have any music teachers?
      > And learning to be a great violinist or pianist is not nearly as complex as becoming a true spiritual master. So while yes I agree most so called "Spiritual Masters" are driven by ego the idea that one can find true mastery of life without a teacher is in my opinion the high of vanity and ego.
      >
      > Yes Egotistical "masters" are everywhere. This is true! No question about it. But don't throw the baby out with the bath water and declare that all Masters are Egotistical and unnecessary or you become as egotistical as the Ego masters you speak of.
      > Not all Spiritual masters are ego driven and useless!
      > Common sense tells us that any complex and difficult task requires the help of those who have gone ahead of us. The idea that no one is more skilled then you are. That no one knows more then you. That no one is more experienced then you. And that no one can teach you anything greater then what you already know is the high of vanity. (in my opinion)
      > The real problem is most people who declare themselves as "Masters" are not "masters"
      > And so you are half right on this point. And half wrong.
      >
      > Harold Klemp from my 29 years of experience in Eckankar is not a Master. Most so called masters are not true masters so in that sense you are right. Few are masters therefore it may appear no one can help you.
      > But this is simply the case of not finding someone who has that ability. Sri Kahtifji in my experience has that ability and is a true SRAOSHA master. ( Master on the path of AKATHA ) Therefore he has the ability to teach his Students on the inner as well as the outer. He also holds the Rod of power. Its not about ego although I understand why you are suspicious of this!
      >
      > Allen
      >
      > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Tyson" <abunjoroge@> wrote:
      > >
      > > I agree with the bahaii that in gods eyes all souls are equal. These man made paths create a fictional higharchy. I believe that some higher manifestations of God could make some mentally unstable because the mind is in duality. God is beyond duality. There may be more than one way the divine manifests to us, but it is all the One. These EGO masters act as if they are so close to God that we nead there spiritual expertice to ever know anything about God. They actually stand in the way of true divine revelation and knowing. A true spiritual master has let go of the little self(The Ego) to be a channel for the divine. A true saint would never raise themselves up with a bunch of pomp and artificial titles to show how enlightend they are. To say you are spiritually adanced compared to your fellow man is definate proof that one is not. They are masters of fantastical spiritual concepts nothing more. Selflesness is the mark of a true saint. Ego is the mark of one who would usurp power over there fellow man.
      > >
      >
      Yes I believe there are spiritual masters. I do not believe that it requires more than one initiation for the spiritual eye to be opened. Any spiritual master who claims Paul Twitchel as there master is suspect in my eyes. He was a master con man. I believe in soul travel and have had some experiences. The majority of pauls followers have there experiences in the dream state which has been manipulated by subliminal messages in there spiritual exercises. When one has an experience with the Bhajan if they are catholic the matrix may appear to them as the virgin mary. This divine manifestation may not be jesus actual mother but the spirit coming in a way that the mind would expect and is comfortable with. Rebazar does not and has not ever existed. The initiation is a spiritual baptism. The one giving it must be filled with the divine spirit themselves. Paul was his own best advocate for himself. He mixed the truth of Shabda yoga with fiction because it sold more books. True transcendant experiences happen while fully conscious and actually raises consciousness. Not in the dream state through subconscious manipulation. The dogma in the Shariyat uses fear tactics to keep the sheep from questioning the validity of truth. The true Word,logos,Bhajan washes away fear. The One (Aswara,Naryana,Ram,Sugmad?) gives complete freedom for It has no neads. All souls come from it. The first illusion of this world is separation. The Logos vibrates in every atom in the cosmos. In can be heard in the inner worlds and the outer worlds for there is no place that it is not. God consciousness is simply being conscious of the omnipresence of God in all things. This is shanti. A master gives the one initiation after that these paths become spiritual dependence rather than freedom. There are those that are more spiritulaly awake than others,but there is no man anywhere that is the sole channel for the Bhajan. The Bhajan is the first thing to proceed from God. I had been a member of eckankar. I saw eck masters in my dreams. When I had true out of body experiences ,and when I heard the rushing wind during meditation these masters were never around. Only the vibrating spirit. It even spoke to me. Why can I leave the physical body call on an eck master and nothing happens? Why has Paul not showed his face? Unless he is a fraud. The rod of power is fiction. Pauls style was to offer freedoms that Shabda yoga did not offer(less discipline). In exchange for unquestionable faith in his mahanta creation. Then the money came rolling in.
    • Tyson
      ... From Abu Njoroge Tammuz--- Shraosha is a Zorastrian name for the holy spirit. I see
      Message 2 of 4 , Jan 13, 2012
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        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Tyson" <abunjoroge@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "allen4447" <winningedge@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Good points however it must be remembered that in most complicated arias of life teachers, and guides are used. The word master is not as in master slave but as in a master carpenter or a master mechanic.
        > > The attainment of Self and God realization and the ability to consciously travel through the plains of God requires guidance if its to be truly mastered.
        > >
        > > Actually the idea that one can do this without a true master is the most egotistical thing of all.
        > > Name one Great concert Violinist or Concert Pianist who did not have any music teachers?
        > > And learning to be a great violinist or pianist is not nearly as complex as becoming a true spiritual master. So while yes I agree most so called "Spiritual Masters" are driven by ego the idea that one can find true mastery of life without a teacher is in my opinion the high of vanity and ego.
        > >
        > > Yes Egotistical "masters" are everywhere. This is true! No question about it. But don't throw the baby out with the bath water and declare that all Masters are Egotistical and unnecessary or you become as egotistical as the Ego masters you speak of.
        > > Not all Spiritual masters are ego driven and useless!
        > > Common sense tells us that any complex and difficult task requires the help of those who have gone ahead of us. The idea that no one is more skilled then you are. That no one knows more then you. That no one is more experienced then you. And that no one can teach you anything greater then what you already know is the high of vanity. (in my opinion)
        > > The real problem is most people who declare themselves as "Masters" are not "masters"
        > > And so you are half right on this point. And half wrong.
        > >
        > > Harold Klemp from my 29 years of experience in Eckankar is not a Master. Most so called masters are not true masters so in that sense you are right. Few are masters therefore it may appear no one can help you.
        > > But this is simply the case of not finding someone who has that ability. Sri Kahtifji in my experience has that ability and is a true SRAOSHA master. ( Master on the path of AKATHA ) Therefore he has the ability to teach his Students on the inner as well as the outer. He also holds the Rod of power. Its not about ego although I understand why you are suspicious of this!
        > >
        > > Allen
        > >
        > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Tyson" <abunjoroge@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > I agree with the bahaii that in gods eyes all souls are equal. These man made paths create a fictional higharchy. I believe that some higher manifestations of God could make some mentally unstable because the mind is in duality. God is beyond duality. There may be more than one way the divine manifests to us, but it is all the One. These EGO masters act as if they are so close to God that we nead there spiritual expertice to ever know anything about God. They actually stand in the way of true divine revelation and knowing. A true spiritual master has let go of the little self(The Ego) to be a channel for the divine. A true saint would never raise themselves up with a bunch of pomp and artificial titles to show how enlightend they are. To say you are spiritually adanced compared to your fellow man is definate proof that one is not. They are masters of fantastical spiritual concepts nothing more. Selflesness is the mark of a true saint. Ego is the mark of one who would usurp power over there fellow man.
        > > >
        > >
        > Yes I believe there are spiritual masters. I do not believe that it requires more than one initiation for the spiritual eye to be opened. Any spiritual master who claims Paul Twitchel as there master is suspect in my eyes. He was a master con man. I believe in soul travel and have had some experiences. The majority of pauls followers have there experiences in the dream state which has been manipulated by subliminal messages in there spiritual exercises. When one has an experience with the Bhajan if they are catholic the matrix may appear to them as the virgin mary. This divine manifestation may not be jesus actual mother but the spirit coming in a way that the mind would expect and is comfortable with. Rebazar does not and has not ever existed. The initiation is a spiritual baptism. The one giving it must be filled with the divine spirit themselves. Paul was his own best advocate for himself. He mixed the truth of Shabda yoga with fiction because it sold more books. True transcendant experiences happen while fully conscious and actually raises consciousness. Not in the dream state through subconscious manipulation. The dogma in the Shariyat uses fear tactics to keep the sheep from questioning the validity of truth. The true Word,logos,Bhajan washes away fear. The One (Aswara,Naryana,Ram,Sugmad?) gives complete freedom for It has no neads. All souls come from it. The first illusion of this world is separation. The Logos vibrates in every atom in the cosmos. In can be heard in the inner worlds and the outer worlds for there is no place that it is not. God consciousness is simply being conscious of the omnipresence of God in all things. This is shanti. A master gives the one initiation after that these paths become spiritual dependence rather than freedom. There are those that are more spiritulaly awake than others,but there is no man anywhere that is the sole channel for the Bhajan. The Bhajan is the first thing to proceed from God. I had been a member of eckankar. I saw eck masters in my dreams. When I had true out of body experiences ,and when I heard the rushing wind during meditation these masters were never around. Only the vibrating spirit. It even spoke to me. Why can I leave the physical body call on an eck master and nothing happens? Why has Paul not showed his face? Unless he is a fraud. The rod of power is fiction. Pauls style was to offer freedoms that Shabda yoga did not offer(less discipline). In exchange for unquestionable faith in his mahanta creation. Then the money came rolling in.
        >
        From Abu Njoroge Tammuz--- Shraosha is a Zorastrian name for the holy spirit. I see it and Eckankar as a new age way of using the old idea of the saved and the lost. Relying on fear. Do you have the right way? Are you led by truth? like christianity and Islam they rely on the idea that there is anywhere that is not in the Kingdom of God and that is an Illusion. The little truth in these new age religions has been stolen from other religions and added fantastical claims to ensnare the gullible. The claim of a high initiation/level is pure fantasy. There are innumerable worlds in Gods kingdom. Ultimately God is One. Has no name and yet many. There is no place that it is not present. I think your self proclaimed masters may have played too much dungeons and dragons as a youth? Perhaps your 25 level cleric/master is no match for my high level wizard? God does not work that way. There are those who walk freely between the worlds and your Sraosha master is nothing more than a fiction writer with a lot of imagination. There are those that are spiritually awake. Those that are spiritually asleep. Once the spiritual eye is open Soul neads no go between to acknowledge the presence of God. Does it really matter if Anami Purusha(Ram) is a higher manifestation than Sat Nam? It is all the ONE. Your mini-masters do not even walk in the light of Sat Nam for Sat Nam is the spirit of Truth itself. These religions rely of Faslhood for there very existece. Thus lower than the soul plane.
      • Tyson
        Message 3 of 4 , Jan 13, 2012
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          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Tyson" <abunjoroge@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Tyson" <abunjoroge@> wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "allen4447" <winningedge@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Good points however it must be remembered that in most complicated arias of life teachers, and guides are used. The word master is not as in master slave but as in a master carpenter or a master mechanic.
          > > > The attainment of Self and God realization and the ability to consciously travel through the plains of God requires guidance if its to be truly mastered.
          > > >
          > > > Actually the idea that one can do this without a true master is the most egotistical thing of all.( from Tyson- An exception to this rule is that Guru Nanak was chosen by SatNam because of his innocence and open heart.)
          > > > Name one Great concert Violinist or Concert Pianist who did not have any music teachers?
          > > > And learning to be a great violinist or pianist is not nearly as complex as becoming a true spiritual master. So while yes I agree most so called "Spiritual Masters" are driven by ego the idea that one can find true mastery of life without a teacher is in my opinion the high of vanity and ego.
          > > >
          > > > Yes Egotistical "masters" are everywhere. This is true! No question about it. But don't throw the baby out with the bath water and declare that all Masters are Egotistical and unnecessary or you become as egotistical as the Ego masters you speak of.
          > > > Not all Spiritual masters are ego driven and useless!
          > > > Common sense tells us that any complex and difficult task requires the help of those who have gone ahead of us. The idea that no one is more skilled then you are. That no one knows more then you. That no one is more experienced then you. And that no one can teach you anything greater then what you already know is the high of vanity. (in my opinion)
          > > > The real problem is most people who declare themselves as "Masters" are not "masters"
          > > > And so you are half right on this point. And half wrong.
          > > >
          > > > Harold Klemp from my 29 years of experience in Eckankar is not a Master. Most so called masters are not true masters so in that sense you are right. Few are masters therefore it may appear no one can help you.
          > > > But this is simply the case of not finding someone who has that ability. Sri Kahtifji in my experience has that ability and is a true SRAOSHA master. ( Master on the path of AKATHA ) Therefore he has the ability to teach his Students on the inner as well as the outer. He also holds the Rod of power. Its not about ego although I understand why you are suspicious of this!
          > > >
          > > > Allen
          > > >
          > > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Tyson" <abunjoroge@> wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > I agree with the bahaii that in gods eyes all souls are equal. These man made paths create a fictional higharchy. I believe that some higher manifestations of God could make some mentally unstable because the mind is in duality. God is beyond duality. There may be more than one way the divine manifests to us, but it is all the One. These EGO masters act as if they are so close to God that we nead there spiritual expertice to ever know anything about God. They actually stand in the way of true divine revelation and knowing. A true spiritual master has let go of the little self(The Ego) to be a channel for the divine. A true saint would never raise themselves up with a bunch of pomp and artificial titles to show how enlightend they are. To say you are spiritually adanced compared to your fellow man is definate proof that one is not. They are masters of fantastical spiritual concepts nothing more. Selflesness is the mark of a true saint. Ego is the mark of one who would usurp power over there fellow man.
          > > > >
          > > >
          > > Yes I believe there are spiritual masters. I do not believe that it requires more than one initiation for the spiritual eye to be opened. Any spiritual master who claims Paul Twitchel as there master is suspect in my eyes. He was a master con man. I believe in soul travel and have had some experiences. The majority of pauls followers have there experiences in the dream state which has been manipulated by subliminal messages in there spiritual exercises. When one has an experience with the Bhajan if they are catholic the matrix may appear to them as the virgin mary. This divine manifestation may not be jesus actual mother but the spirit coming in a way that the mind would expect and is comfortable with. Rebazar does not and has not ever existed. The initiation is a spiritual baptism. The one giving it must be filled with the divine spirit themselves. Paul was his own best advocate for himself. He mixed the truth of Shabda yoga with fiction because it sold more books. True transcendant experiences happen while fully conscious and actually raises consciousness. Not in the dream state through subconscious manipulation. The dogma in the Shariyat uses fear tactics to keep the sheep from questioning the validity of truth. The true Word,logos,Bhajan washes away fear. The One (Aswara,Naryana,Ram,Sugmad?) gives complete freedom for It has no neads. All souls come from it. The first illusion of this world is separation. The Logos vibrates in every atom in the cosmos. In can be heard in the inner worlds and the outer worlds for there is no place that it is not. God consciousness is simply being conscious of the omnipresence of God in all things. This is shanti. A master gives the one initiation after that these paths become spiritual dependence rather than freedom. There are those that are more spiritulaly awake than others,but there is no man anywhere that is the sole channel for the Bhajan. The Bhajan is the first thing to proceed from God. I had been a member of eckankar. I saw eck masters in my dreams. When I had true out of body experiences ,and when I heard the rushing wind during meditation these masters were never around. Only the vibrating spirit. It even spoke to me. Why can I leave the physical body call on an eck master and nothing happens? Why has Paul not showed his face? Unless he is a fraud. The rod of power is fiction. Pauls style was to offer freedoms that Shabda yoga did not offer(less discipline). In exchange for unquestionable faith in his mahanta creation. Then the money came rolling in.
          > >
          > From Abu Njoroge Tammuz--- Shraosha is a Zorastrian name for the holy spirit. I see it and Eckankar as a new age way of using the old idea of the saved and the lost. Relying on fear. Do you have the right way? Are you led by truth? like christianity and Islam they rely on the idea that there is anywhere that is not in the Kingdom of God and that is an Illusion. The little truth in these new age religions has been stolen from other religions and added fantastical claims to ensnare the gullible. The claim of a high initiation/level is pure fantasy. There are innumerable worlds in Gods kingdom. Ultimately God is One. Has no name and yet many. There is no place that it is not present. I think your self proclaimed masters may have played too much dungeons and dragons as a youth? Perhaps your 25 level cleric/master is no match for my high level wizard? God does not work that way. There are those who walk freely between the worlds and your Sraosha master is nothing more than a fiction writer with a lot of imagination. There are those that are spiritually awake. Those that are spiritually asleep. Once the spiritual eye is open Soul neads no go between to acknowledge the presence of God. Does it really matter if Anami Purusha(Ram) is a higher manifestation than Sat Nam? It is all the ONE. Your mini-masters do not even walk in the light of Sat Nam for Sat Nam is the spirit of Truth itself. These religions rely of Faslhood for there very existece. Thus lower than the soul plane.
          >
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