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Re: Why Doesn't ECKankar Have More and Higher H.I.s?

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  • shabdamoksha
    Dear Premetheous and Others, Hello Eckankar Survivors. I am commenting on several things Prometheous responded to from my posting about Eckankar yesterday.
    Message 1 of 38 , Jan 7, 2012
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      Dear Premetheous and Others,

      Hello Eckankar Survivors. I am commenting on several things Prometheous responded to from my posting about Eckankar yesterday.

      Prometheous said:
      Rebazar didn't really
      > fill-in as LEM for 35 days because
      > he was nowhere in sight! He
      > didn't attend any "physical"
      > meetings or take any calls
      > in order to Pass the Rod.
      >
      >I know that on this point you and I have a very different view point. You seem to come from a more existentialist view point that like science says: we can only belive in the outside world. If it's hard and solid, it's real. Einstein proved that distance and time are not absolute. Scientists have done studies that proved that individual's (inner) perceptions changed the results of (outer) experiments. Some people say that when people have a near death experience of seeing a great light that it is only a chemical reaction in their brain. That it is not a real place or experience. My partner and I have had soul travel experiences with people such as Rebazar. We have had very profound light and sound filled experiences that are very real, more real than this world.

      When you say that inner experience is imagination, all I have to say is what a wise man said to me: If I were looking at an ocean at the beach. And then I go to a public place and a person there approaches me and tells me: the ocean you saw was not real. I would laugh because I know it's real.

      Everything is a matter of experience in soul travel. No one knows unless they experience. Experience comes from practice. If a ready soul wants it he can have self realzation and God Realization, he or she can. Only one percent of the souls are ready. The reason Eckankar is such a mess is because it hasn't had a true Master leading it since 1971. And that is why Eckankar is so flawed.

      Also you later mentioned that maybe my God Realization experience is Cosmic Consciousness. I had a friend who when I told her of my new spiritual path she said: I asked if I should stay with Eckankar and a gray fog said: Stay with Eckankar. I laughed alittle at that. It was a gray fog and not a light. Which makes it obvious that it was a message that came from below the soul plane. Although even if it were a light it could easily be below the soul plane. It was an illusion. Many are decieved by illusions like these that look like higher inner experiences or waking dreams or they are especially diluded by negative thoughts and or illusions that "look" like higher worlds or higher realitiies or higher view points but aren't or look like guidance but are really trickery. Eckankar has these issues. I am not perfect, I make mistakes however I know the difference between trickery of that kind and the reality of my knowingness and higher experience being with in the higher God Worlds. Until a person has the experience they don't know. If a person is dedicated they can have soul travel experiences.

      I know what level it is I saw and I know it's real.

      You asked me what I practice: it's called: AKATHA (Ah-ku-tuh), it is the highest path to God Realization. It is the true path that Paul Twitchell once began. That is unclear so I will explain. When Paul Twitchell died the high path of Eckankar went under gound and Eckankar under Darwin was no longer the high path but an offshoot of the origional teachings. The High Path went underground until 1988 and was renamed AKATHA by Fubbi Quantz and the rod of power was passed to Sri Terkatif Raza. The full history of it can be found on the website: www.akatha.com for the history.

      But I would like to ad. just reading a few sentences or pages on a website doesn't mean anything. It doesn't mean you've experienced(anything). It's like the guy who thought he knew John, but never met John. It is only through discipline and experience in soul travel and acutally doing something that a person knows what they are talking about. Those readers who really don't care about word spin that can weave a web of illusion but instead want God and God Realization above all else will find what they truely want. I did for sure in AKATHA. I found God Realization and Mastery because AKATHA doesn't create followers like Eckankar does, AKATHA creates SRAOSHA Masters. People say Eckankar is the path to God Realization but really how many Masters do they have? None. What else could one want but God.

      If you despritely want to find arguements you will find lots of arugements. If you despritely want to find illusions you will find illusions. If you despritely want to find some other meaningless thing you will find a meaningless thing. If you want to find emptyness you will find emptyness. But if you drop the pebble on your back and despritely want to find God and God above all else you will find God. And you will be infinately blessed beyond your wildest dreams. That is what true Masters and Saints have done, find God.


      Many people join paths that say they offer God Realization and then don't really offer it at all. All talk and no action. 99% of the people out there are not ready for a true path to God Realization which is AKATHA. It's only purpose is spiritual Mastership and God Realization and not spiritual fluff and distractions. Only one percent are ready because they want God more then they want their bagage, their status, opinions, dogma, personality worship, saftey of their fixed thought patterns, argumentative thoughts, etc. But even if they are ready they have to take initiative, practice spiritual exercises and it takes time to build up to having experiences of(soul travel). Soul Travel is so important! One can get no where very fast with out soul travel. In golden ages everyone did soul travel.

      The reason I chose to post on this site was because of the statement on your Eckankar Survivors opening page which says this direct quote: "WHERE IT ALL BEGAN! Paducah, KY. (a.k.a. China Point) Paul Twitchell's birthplace and that of the 1st (and only) Mahanta!" When I saw that comment as the description of what this yahoo group represents and I read some insightful comments you made which were far more insightful than some others I read, I was impressed. I am not interested in posting on a site that focuses on the blind venting of hatred rooted in over blown negitivity projection onto other people. Some people just enjoy complaining and critizing over and over again like a broken record. Seeing people as completely and all bad because they made some stupid mistake here or there is silly. I thought sinse that quote was on your sight, you and some of your other comments that you displayed some levels of depth and wisdom. But then you said the next statement I have to disagree:

      Prometheous- Paul Twitchell was
      > no "master" he was a conman,
      > liar, wannabe and plagiarist.
      >
      Me- Paul Twitchel was an amazing man. He created truely great works like the Tigars Fang, the Far Country, Dialogues with the Masters, and the Flute of God. He created discourses. Paul Twitchell had great wisdom he expressed in his many talks. He created the most wonderful spiritual works. Many People had profound spiritual experiences with him. There is a tremendious wisdom in his writings, actions, and talks. To copy a few sentences here and there or to quibble over his birth date seems trivial in the vastness of what he's done.

      What you said above defining Paul Twitchell according to David Lane's negative distorted reality doesn't seem in harmony with the things you've said that are truely insightful. Yes, Paul Twitchell did have some inaccuracies. It's really not worth going totally crazy over it like he did. It reminds me of a child that spills milk on the carpet in several areas and his Father goes bonkers as though the child drove a train through the house to totally demolish it, and that is what they are trying to do dimolish people's opinion of Paul. It's like a person stepping out and looking at a vast endless sunny sky. They see a tiny dark cloud and become totally obsessed with the dark cloud. And someone comes up and says isnt' it a bright amazing sunny day. And the cloud person looks back with a frown and says: "It's not a sunny day, look at that dark, dark dreadful cloud. It's a discusting day. They talk about the tiny dark cloud for five hours. There is nothing one could say to make them feel different. I think the whole balony about Paul's plagerism is over emphesized obesession as a distraction so they can be too busy with the trivia to see what Paul actually gave and they can never know how beyond amazing Paul Twitchel is and was with out a doubt amazing.

      They just need a stupid reason to hate a great man. There are so many people who talk about Paul as though they know him personally, when 90% of what they say is filled with heresay and blind hatred learned by people who want to attack by looking for dark clouds.

      The leader of AKATHA Sri Kahtifji has many things posted that he has written that are amazing because he holds the rod of power like Paul Twicthel did. The Mahaji is the true Master who can bring souls to God Realization. People can read his works with out any money, it's all free. AKATHA is not a money cult like Eckankar is.


      Paul Twitchell is a great spiritual man. And seeing less based on superficial articles doesn't make sense. For example if someone saw a picture of a guy named John and read back biting articles about John. Then they walk up to John's friend and say: "John is a creep, a real jerk, a horrible person." And John's friend says: "You've never even met John. You read an hateful articles by a person who never knew John and assume you know all there is to know about John. I've been friends with John for 20 years, lived with him, seen the wonderful things he's done for me and my family. His happy smile and endless gifts. No, John's a great guy.

      This is the same with Paul Twitchell. He died in 1971 and people act like they know the whole scoop on him when they never met the man. Those with the comments never spent time in Eckankar when he was in charge. Heresay. Gossip. Everyone knows how blind gossip can get. A lot of people today blindly belive gossip, like so many sheep. Sheep sheep and more sheep. Sometimes Paul said silly, fun, fictitous things. But people didn't get it because they don't understand humor or they don't understand his brand of creativity that didn't alway follow the rules. So what if some of his preditions were off. To me that is a tiny dark cloud in a vast sunny sky. Paul Twitchell was not just a good man and a great spiritual Master, he was a spiritual inspiration. He empowered people who are today God Realized because of him. To say anything less is foolish.

      Promethious at another point you said in your letter:
      > No! ECKankar (Klemp) can
      > and does sell higher initiation
      > levels... just not that many 8ths
      > or 9ths. And they're as invalid
      > as any other religious initiation
      > being handed out and sold via
      > membership requirements (fees/
      > donations). Consciousness has
      > to be recognized and achieved
      > by the individual and not handed
      > out by others.


      Me- In response to that I would say:
      I appoligize that I was unclear with how I explained what I had said. I said: "The reason Eckankar cannot give higher initiation levels ..." But what I actually meant by that was Eckankar cannot give higher initiation levels above the 8th Initiation (glass ceiling). In other words initiates cannot become Masters when Eckankar became the offshoot it now is. Related to your second comment: I agree with the part where you say concsiousness has to be recognized and achieved by individuals. The mistake of some religions is they say someone else has total charge and responsiblity for one's life. And of course no one can achieve a high state except the leader so that all can be followers. That is the role a false Master takes, one that disempowers. The definition of evil is taking something great and making it small. A false Master will subtly or directly make small, control, con money, and treat the initiate like a spiritual baby. Although Harold and Darwin have their strenghts they were not true Masters and therefore created some confusion about what a master is and what a master does. A true Master helps an individual (do it for themselves)of their own efforts achieve higher levels. A true Master empowers and inspires individuals to achieve (their own Mastership). Anything less then this is a false Master.

      Only someone who is not a true Master creates followers. Darwin and Harold have positive features but used subtle ways that help people and yet keep them followers. There are no followers on the spiritual path I am on. They are all in training to become Masters or are already.


      You also made a comment that initiations are invalid. There are paths or religions where this is true. I agree that there is a lot of trickery out there about that. However, when I joined AKATHA I was brought up from a 4th Initate to a much higher level. I could feel a huge shift to a higher level. It wasn't words, it was real. I could feel it. The light and sound was much greater. I got answers I yearned for, not from outside myself by people telling me what to think but from the higher God Worlds. Even though I was no longer a Member of Eckankar I went to an Eckankar world wide seminar to see friends. My consciousness and view point came from a whole different perspective. I felt like a college student visiting kindergarten. (I am not sharing this to tout greatness and look down on others. To me (all souls are great)it's just some don't know it. And as a result, they stay in kindergarten because they are too proud to think they might be wrong. They stay in Kindergarten when they could go to college.



      >
      > Prometheous said: Darwin was dating Gail behind
      > Paul's back. DG had only been
      > an EK member since around 1968
      > and was a third initiate at the time
      > of Paul's death. Gail claimed to
      > have had a dream where Paul told
      > her that Darwin was to be the LEM.
      > Gail was running the show and
      > had the Board's support. Darwin
      > was made a 5th initiate by the EK
      > Board in order to receive the Rod
      > of ECK Power on Oct 22, 1971...
      > 35 days after Paul's death.

      Me- My comment about Darwin's initiation level, again to clairify what I meant was what his initiation was (later on). It is true that his level was what you said at the beginning of what happened. But also I explained that Darwin was (never) the Living Eck Master. Eckankar (falsly) called him the living Eck Master. But he was not a Master. The rod of power was never handed to him although people falsely claimed it was and even painted it. Him as the LEM was fiction and as you reconfirmed the fiction was created by Gail, Patty, and the Board, and therefore it was a false fiction. Paul did not hand any rod of power to Darwin and therefore Darwin was never the Living Eck Master. The rod was handed to a differnt Master, who brought the highest path non-public for fifteen years, he handed it to Rebazar not Darwin. And that is why so much confusion and suffering occured. What you experienced as problems in Eckankar were under those who were not true Masters: Harold and Darwin.


      As I explained previously but say once again: 99% of the people out there are not ready for a path to God Realization. Only one percent are ready because they want God more then they want their status, opinions, dogma, personality worship, saftey of their fixed thought patterns, etc. But even if they are ready they have to take initiative, practice spiritual exercises and it takes time to build up to having experiences of(soul travel). When Paul Twitchell died Eckankar became no longer the highest path to God. Again, if a person despritely wants to find illusion they will find illusion. If a person despritely wants to find some other meaningless thing they will find a meaningless thing. If a person wants to find emptyness they will find emptiness. But if they drop the pebble and despritely want to find God above all else they will find God. That is what true Masters and Saints have done, find God.

      May the Blessing Be,

      ShabdaMoksha







      >
    • prometheus_973
      Hello Diana, You ve got my curiosity. Please tell me/us more! Prometheus Diana Stanley wrote: I met a perfect soul. He did not want followers and did not have
      Message 38 of 38 , Jan 12, 2012
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        Hello Diana,
        You've got my curiosity.
        Please tell me/us more!

        Prometheus


        Diana Stanley wrote:
        I met a perfect soul.

        He did not want
        followers and did
        not have a spiritual
        path.

        You could listen to
        his words and apply
        them to your spiritual
        life.

        He only would let
        people attend his
        talk for two weeks,
        no charge.

        He said everyone has
        a guru inside. You are
        already connected to
        the highest.

        He gave no initiations
        or put anyone higher
        than another.

        He introdced me to
        a way of spiritual
        thinking that I apply
        every day.

        Diana

        prometheus wrote:
        >
        > Hello All,
        > Well, it seems that this
        > needs a response merely
        > to correct some of the
        > inaccurate info on Darwin
        > if nothing else.
        >
        > Re: Why Doesn't ECKankar Have More and Higher H.I.s?
        >
        >
        > ----- Forwarded Message -----
        > From: shabdamoksha <shabdamoksha@...>
        > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Friday, January 6, 2012 8:09 PM
        > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Why Doesn't ECKankar Have More and
        Higher H.I.s?
        >
        >
        > Dear Eckankar Survivors Anonymous,
        >
        > Responding to your recent post titled: "Why doesn't Eckankar have more and
        Higher HI's?" I emailed Prometheus a response but I will repeat it here. I am an
        Ex-Eckist who was a former member of Eckankar for over 17 years. During that
        time I had several leadership positions such as a state wide service leader.
        >
        > ME: This leadership position
        > must have been a very long
        > time ago. I recall State and
        > Local Rep positions. Actually
        > I forget all the titles. It's like
        > trying to remember the various
        > words describing ECKankar...
        > A Way of Life, The Path of
        > Total Awareness, etc., etc.
        >
        >
        > The reason that Eckankar cannot give higher initiation levels is because
        Eckankar can only bring individuals up to the mental plane. Cosmic consciousness
        is the highest level that Eckankar can bring individuals. That is true now but
        it wasn't true during Paul Twichell's time. After Paul Twitchell translated it
        became a cosmic consciousness path. There are several reasons for this. A reason
        why there are also no Masters in Eckankar is because currentlly Eckankar creates
        followers and not spiritual masters. As I explained it brings people to cosmic
        consciousness.
        >
        >
        > ME: No! ECKankar (Klemp) can
        > and does sell higher initiation
        > levels... just not that many 8ths
        > or 9ths. And they're as invalid
        > as any other religious initiation
        > being handed out and sold via
        > membership requirements (fees/
        > donations). Consciousness has
        > to be recognized and achieved
        > by the individual and not handed
        > out by others. Paul Twitchell was
        > no "master" he was a conman,
        > liar, wannabe and plagiarist.
        > Cosmic Consciousness is merely
        > a term used by New Age Westernized
        > religious sects to describe the
        > benefits of their brand of religion.
        >
        >
        >
        > The first reason is that in 1971 when Paul Twitcell translated he never
        declared a successor. He only left a list of six names. The Eckankar leadership
        which included Gail Twitchell, Patty Simpson and others chose Darwin Gross who
        was not a Master but only a ninth initiate. Instead when Paul died he gave
        Rebazar the rod of power and brought the true path of Eckankar non-public and at
        that moment the outer Eckankar became an offshoot. It was at that moment that
        Eckankar was no longer the highest path to God even though it claimed to be.
        >
        >
        > ME: Darwin was dating Gail behind
        > Paul's back. DG had only been
        > an EK member since around 1968
        > and was a third initiate at the time
        > of Paul's death. Gail claimed to
        > have had a dream where Paul told
        > her that Darwin was to be the LEM.
        > Gail was running the show and
        > had the Board's support. Darwin
        > was made a 5th initiate by the EK
        > Board in order to receive the Rod
        > of ECK Power on Oct 22, 1971...
        > 35 days after Paul's death.
        >
        > The Rebazar fill-in story was
        > one that was dreamed up by
        > Klemp. After all, there was no
        > need for a fill-in Mahanta since
        > the Mahanta was still Paul and
        > the story is that there has always
        > been a Mahanta whether in a
        > physical body or not... not every
        > LEM is a Mahanta. A picture was
        > done showing Paul giving the
        > Rod to Darwin.
        >
        > Klemp altered this story to fit
        > the dogma requiring a LEM to
        > pass the Rod. And, HK inferred
        > that Darwin was a 13th initiate
        > and was merely a Mahanta "in
        > training" and not a "full" Mahanta
        > like himself. Thus, the Blue
        > Carnations given to Darwin
        > when he went on stage only
        > indicated that DG was a
        > Mahanta-in-Training.
        >
        > Only the LEM needs a physical
        > body. The ECK dogma requires
        > the LEM to pass the Rod (position)
        > to the next LEM. Thus, the ageless,
        > imaginary Rebazar who Paul
        > dreamed up to initiate him is
        > the natural choice for fill-in.
        > Rebazar Tarzs, supposedly,
        > has his same 500 year old
        > physical body and took the
        > place of the Living ECK Master
        > (Paul) for 35 days in order to
        > pass the Rod of ECK Power
        > to a fake Master (Darwin) who,
        > later, passed it to Klemp! This
        > way Klemp can die while in
        > office and RT, via Joan's dream,
        > can pass the Rod to her choice.
        >
        > Of course, Rebazar didn't really
        > fill-in as LEM for 35 days because
        > he was nowhere in sight! He
        > didn't attend any "physical"
        > meetings or take any calls
        > or make himself available as
        > Klemp would have ECKists
        > imagine. It didn't happen!
        > Can't these longtime ECKists
        > remember? No memos or
        > articles either! Besides, did
        > RT really have to fill-in for
        > 35 days as LEM as Klemp
        > claims? RT, actually, only
        > needed to fill-in for 35 seconds
        > in order to Pass the Rod.
        >
        >
        >
        > Paul Twitchell made a guarantee that initiates can usually reach God
        Realization in 25 years and he guaranteed an initiate can reach God Realization
        in this life time or the next.
        >
        > My friend said: If that guarantee is true than all Eckists would reach it in
        the (next) life. Paul brought initiates up through initiations quickly. The
        reason modern Eckankar has what is called "The Glass Ceiling in Eckankar" is for
        two reasons.
        >
        > The first reason is it would disturb the status quo.
        >
        > The second reason is that Harold although a good person he is only a sharadda,
        a sixth initiate.
        >
        > I do not care to talk negatively about people for when I was in Eckankar he
        helped to bring me many inner experiences, love, and some karmic help. However
        even though a shradda is not a spiritual Master, a sixth initiate is still a
        powerful spiritual being.
        >
        >
        > ME: Wait a minute! God Realization,
        > as well as, Self Mastery and Spiritual
        > Freedom was guaranteed for "this"
        > lifetime as long as one reached the
        > 5th. There was no "next" lifetime
        > after reaching the 2nd initiation!
        > BTW- Klemp is a liar, deceiver and
        > an arrogant wannabe. He sought
        > those phony book awards by fellow
        > publishing companies and paid to be
        > listed in Who's Who. HK's not a 6th
        > either. Twit created a bunch of
        > initiation levels as carrots to be
        > dangled in order to appease egos,
        > thus, they're all phony and Twitchell,
        > their creator, was the phoniest!
        > No one has power over you unless
        > you give them power... remember
        > that? You helped yourself by thinking
        > it was someone else. You could
        > have placed your attention and
        > faith in other areas or with non-living
        > "masters" and had the same outcome
        > and benefits. What they (the religious
        > conmen) don't want you to know
        > is that as Soul... YOU are your
        > own teacher and master.
        >
        > Sure, you can take tid-bits and
        > insights from others but don't
        > rely upon them...that's the trap!
        > Take responsibility and invent
        > your own personal relationship
        > and religion with YOU and Spirit.
        > Besides, what has Klemp said
        > that Paul didn't already say via
        > his plagiarism of Sant Mat...
        > which was another phony religion.
        >
        >
        > While a former member of Eckankar, my partner had an extremely high level of
        success in spiritual exercises on the inner planes mostly in the lower worlds.
        (They were not his imagination) But after 29 years of successful practice he was
        still only a 4th initiate. He hit the "Glass Ceiling in Eckankar" and could go
        no higher. He felt trapped in the lower worlds and blamed himself. Physically he
        was practically dyeing from lack of adequate outflow in spite of his loving
        efforts. He was having lots of inner experiences with Paul Twitchell, Rebazar,
        and other Masters. I also had many inner experiences but felt held back.
        >
        > ME: I had some very phenomenal
        > experiences prior to Eckankar, while
        > in TM, and these weren't imagined
        > either. BTW- This 4th hadn't hit the
        > "Glass Ceiling in Eckankar." Maybe
        > for the outer effort he wanted to
        > put into it he had. The "outflow"
        > supposedly comes from volunteering
        > for intros, as a Satsang Arahata,
        > and for local leadership positions,
        > etc. There had to be something
        > "wrong" with a person who has 29
        > years in and is still a 4th. Did he
        > fall asleep during meetings, classes,
        > and at the EWS and say he was
        > getting it all on the "inner?" That's
        > frowned upon by RESAs and is
        > probably why he wasn't promoted
        > if that was the case. I knew of a
        > guy who was a 4th with the same
        > amount of time as a 4th and this
        > was his problem. Maybe it was
        > the same guy. I think he finally
        > got promoted to the 5th when
        > a friend of his became the RESA.
        >
        > Shortly after this we called out to God for God Realization. Our call was
        answered and we both had profound light and sound God Worlds experiences with
        the true successor of Paul Twitchel. We had profound experiences of being
        brought up to higher states of consciousness much more quickly than Eckankar.
        Eckankar is currently only an offshoot and no longer the highest path to God.
        >
        >
        > ME: And who was the "true successor"
        > of Paul.... Bernie Madeoff (sic?)? Gail?
        > Oops! It couldn't be Gail since it has to
        > be a guy right? That old negative atom
        > polarity thingie right? So, Eckankar is
        > an offshoot of an offshoot of an offshoot.
        > What does that make this other "highest
        > path?" Sikhism had the Radasoami offshoot.
        > Ruhani Satsang was the offshoot of this
        > that Twitchell joined under Kirpal Singh
        > and then he created his own offshoot
        > Eckankar. So, do you follow the offshoot
        > created by Twitchell? True, Klemp created
        > his own offshoot of the original Eckankar
        > created by Twitchell.
        >
        >
        > No person is perfect and it is pointless to dwell on the many human flaws of
        individuals. It is a common misconception that Spiritual Masters are made of
        plastic, perfect beings incapable of human mistakes and human emotions. Yes, as
        many say Paul made human mistakes, because masters are not perfect as many
        falsely assume. Masters have emotions and make human errors. The mythology that
        masters are perfect is a myth that keeps people believing that Mastership is an
        impossible goal of some far distant future, never to be had by any humble
        person. But Paul was a true Master even though he made some mistakes. People can
        dwell on such superficiality of his tiny mistakes until the cows jump over the
        moon but they will never learn the truth because they don't want God.
        >
        > ME: Is Rebazar Tarzs perfect?
        > What mistakes has he made?
        > You see, Rebazar is perfect
        > because Rebazar is imaginary!
        > Rebazar's existence is myth!
        >
        >
        > When I shared with a few close friends in Eckankar about my God Realization
        experience they were so focused on their initiation, status, dogma, personality
        worship, habit pattern thought that they didn't hear a word of it or care to
        know anything about it. They built a 12 foot high wall of fear and were quick to
        judge me. Another friend did care and his life changed overnight.
        >
        > I feel too many people prefer spiritual fluff, distractions, status, dogma, or
        the safety of closed off beliefs to embracing God. All I wanted was God. And I
        prayed to God for three days to be shown who is the true Mahanta who could bring
        me to God and my call was answered. What is the point of being in Eckankar if
        not to connect with God, and reach self and God Realization in this life and not
        a million years from now.
        >
        > It is like Paul Twichell once said: Only the bold and adventurous find God.
        >
        > Many people don't want a true connection with God, Self Realization, or God
        Realization because they are afraid to become the spiritual giant that they
        already are. I am a spiritual master now and it doesn't concern me if no one
        believes me or knows. But I am concerned if people who want to truly connect
        with God or God Realization don't because they are being misled by people who
        don't love them truly.
        > May the blessings be, Shabdamoksha [end]
        >
        >
        > ME: God Realization experiences
        > are subjective. It was probably
        > a Cosmic Consciousness experience.
        > Just kidding. However, a rose
        > is still a rose by any other name.
        > I try not to get caught up in
        > classifying, pigeon holing, and
        > judging my own private, personal,
        > unique spiritual experiences.
        > What do I know? True, people
        > do go for the religious bullshit.
        > New Agers are just as much the
        > suckers and fools (not for God)
        > as the hugely populated religions.
        >
        > BTW- Twit also stated (long ago)
        > in the Square Peg article that he
        > was a Cliffhanger and that the
        > Cliffhanger is his own religion!
        > There's a point in everyone's
        > life when they has learned enough
        > that they no longer need to be
        > a joiner. Soul doesn't need mental
        > plane dogma and a physical plane
        > religion or a master. IT is the Master
        > and always has a relationship with
        > Spirit...
        >
        > Prometheus
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