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Klemp's ECKankar Is Non-Pacifist... Why?

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello All, I was wondering as to why a religion that claims to be of the Highest Consciousness anywhere, and for all time, and to be the most direct path to
    Message 1 of 4 , Dec 31, 2011
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      Hello All,
      I was wondering as to
      why a religion that claims
      to be of the "Highest
      Consciousness" anywhere,
      and for all time, and to
      be the "most direct path
      to God" doesn't practice
      pacifism/peaceful action.

      The argument could be
      that there would be no
      one left to practice their
      belief if they turned the
      other cheek and didn't
      defend themselves by
      killing their enemies
      or those of their country.

      However, the eradication
      of one's enemies isn't an
      option for pacifist religions.
      Everyday life is, of course,
      seen as a test of faith, but
      they take it a step further
      and to the next level.

      Why does ECKankar have
      the same views as other Non-
      Pacifist (violence condoning)
      religions?

      And, what's really interesting
      is that these Pacifist religions,
      EACH, have more members,
      worldwide, and are more widely
      known via historical records
      than ECKankar! The Pacifists
      have a real religious history!
      "ECK" does not!

      So, one has to wonder why
      Klemp (the 14th Plane Mahanta)
      states that it's okay for ECKists
      to be members of the military.
      Is it because he was in the
      U.S. Air Force during the
      Vietnam War and that he
      enjoyed his military experience?

      And, let's not forget that
      the founder of ECKankar,
      Twitchell, was in the U.S.
      Navy during WWII and he,
      also, enjoyed the experience!
      He made it seem that he
      was a real hero!

      Here's a site that lists the
      various Pacifist religions:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pacifist_faiths#Religion

      Interesting, too, that this
      topic of pacifism is yet another
      unexplored/discussed aspect
      of the ECK Teachings that is
      quickly slid in under the rug
      and is accepted by longtime
      members (H.I.s) without question.
      And, these Higher 6th & 7th
      Initiates, supposedly, have
      a "Spiritual Consciousness"
      beyond that of the *4th Plane
      God (KAL, i.e. the Devil, Satan)
      the Pacifists worship! Amazing!

      Prometheus
      *Autobiography of a Modern
      Prophet, page 385, by Harold
      Klemp
    • Non
      Hi Prometheus, It is even more than just odd that the highest state(s) of consciousness, which are Omnipotent, Omnipresent, and Omniscient are soo shallow. It
      Message 2 of 4 , Jan 4, 2012
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        Hi Prometheus,
        It is even more than just odd that the highest state(s) of consciousness, which are Omnipotent, Omnipresent, and Omniscient are soo shallow. It would seem obvious that there is no need for violence and much room for Compassion. Self-defense would be a mute point. After all, if you are capable of changing the weather and so on then why not make it a nice happy day. But NOOOOOO, ekists claim that they must follow a path of noninterference and indifference. I do not claim any highest state of consciousness, but in my time on earth, I have learned, at least IMHO, that a path of destruction, arrogance, indifference without any sense of empathy is just plain wrong and at the very least unproductive. They may not necessarily be destructive overtly, but there is a sense of passive/aggressiveness and fake smiles.

        Lets take one example, that of the use of religion to justify slavery. Many did so, causing great suffering to others and even when the slaves in the U.S. were freed, they were made to suffer for decades. Why aren't there any stories in ek lore about some ek master doing something to end the suffering of humankind or even animals. (Perhaps there is something I recall, about eck masters just hanging out observing and may step in at the last second to save the earth from utter destruction or some such nonsense.)

        eckankar is all about power and arrogance. eckankar does not do any charitable work that I know of nor was it a high priority when I was a member. The highest priority was worship of the LEM, simply escaping the earth "ash can" to some other ethereal plane of existence. What then is their real understanding of LOVE. It is merely a concept devoid of any real feeling of the true sense of the word and expression. Theirs is a religion based on FEAR of AUTHORITY. It is also very escapist rather than engaging in making the world a better place. It's like a mutual admiration society studying their dogma theocracy of fraudulent facts and Narcissisticaly looking at themselves in there make believe dreams.

        What good did any eck master (fictional anyway) ever really do. Klemp will never get a Nobel Peace Prize, that's for sure.

        Noneckster ; )


        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
        >
        Hello All,
        I was wondering as to
        why a religion that claims
        to be of the "Highest
        Consciousness" anywhere,
        and for all time, and to
        be the "most direct path
        to God" doesn't practice
        pacifism/peaceful action.

        The argument could be
        that there would be no
        one left to practice their
        belief if they turned the
        other cheek and didn't
        defend themselves by
        killing their enemies
        or those of their country.

        However, the eradication
        of one's enemies isn't an
        option for pacifist religions.
        Everyday life is, of course,
        seen as a test of faith, but
        they take it a step further
        and to the next level.

        Why does ECKankar have
        the same views as other Non-
        Pacifist (violence condoning)
        religions?

        And, what's really interesting
        is that these Pacifist religions,
        EACH, have more members,
        worldwide, and are more widely
        known via historical records
        than ECKankar! The Pacifists
        have a real religious history!
        "ECK" does not!

        So, one has to wonder why
        Klemp (the 14th Plane Mahanta)
        states that it's okay for ECKists
        to be members of the military.
        Is it because he was in the
        U.S. Air Force during the
        Vietnam War and that he
        enjoyed his military experience?

        And, let's not forget that
        the founder of ECKankar,
        Twitchell, was in the U.S.
        Navy during WWII and he,
        also, enjoyed the experience!
        He made it seem that he
        was a real hero!

        Here's a site that lists the
        various Pacifist religions:

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pacifist_faiths#Religion

        Interesting, too, that this
        topic of pacifism is yet another
        unexplored/discussed aspect
        of the ECK Teachings that is
        quickly slid in under the rug
        and is accepted by longtime
        members (H.I.s) without question.
        And, these Higher 6th & 7th
        Initiates, supposedly, have
        a "Spiritual Consciousness"
        beyond that of the *4th Plane
        God (KAL, i.e. the Devil, Satan)
        the Pacifists worship! Amazing!

        Prometheus
        *Autobiography of a Modern
        Prophet, page 385, by Harold
        Klemp
      • prometheus_973
        Hello All, Thanks for the post Non. I ll add my two cents worth below: Non wrote: Hi Prometheus, It is even more than just odd that the highest state(s) of
        Message 3 of 4 , Jan 6, 2012
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          Hello All,
          Thanks for the post Non.
          I'll add my two cents worth
          below:

          "Non" wrote:
          Hi Prometheus,
          It is even more than just odd that the highest state(s) of consciousness, which
          are Omnipotent, Omnipresent, and Omniscient are soo shallow. It would seem
          obvious that there is no need for violence and much room for Compassion.
          Self-defense would be a mute point. After all, if you are capable of changing
          the weather and so on then why not make it a nice happy day. But NOOOOOO, ekists
          claim that they must follow a path of noninterference and indifference. I do not
          claim any highest state of consciousness, but in my time on earth, I have
          learned, at least IMHO, that a path of destruction, arrogance, indifference
          without any sense of empathy is just plain wrong and at the very least
          unproductive. They may not necessarily be destructive overtly, but there is a
          sense of passive/aggressiveness and fake smiles.



          ME: ECKists are conflicted
          with their religious bullshit
          (dogma). It's obvious that
          people "feel" when they love
          whether it's people or pets.
          However, Eckists are instructed,
          early on, that "feelings" are
          wrong and negative and of
          the 2nd Astral Plane. But,
          "unconditional" love is, somehow,
          seen as being the highest
          form of love. Thus, non-judgmental
          love, i.e. unconditional love,
          is highly sought and is therefore
          portrayed and emulated.
          Unfortunately, ECKists don't
          see the fallacy of separating
          love and feelings and attempting
          to turn ECKists into unfeeling
          sociopathic "yes" men/women.



          NON-ECKSTER:
          Lets take one example, that of the use of religion to justify slavery. Many did
          so, causing great suffering to others and even when the slaves in the U.S. were
          freed, they were made to suffer for decades. Why aren't there any stories in ek
          lore about some ek master doing something to end the suffering of humankind or
          even animals. (Perhaps there is something I recall, about eck masters just
          hanging out observing and may step in at the last second to save the earth from
          utter destruction or some such nonsense.)


          ME: Right! Klemp has EK
          stories about this or that
          ECK Master (or the ECK)
          doing something, but it's
          all pretty much imagined,
          embellished, or distorted.
          And, the stories of these
          meetings and intercessions
          are never as good as the
          stories coming from Christians.
          I knew some EKists who
          had their embellished stories
          mentioned, on stage, by
          HK and three were printed
          in HK's Mahanta transcripts.
          I knew some of these ECkists
          well enough to know when
          they were lying. They had
          huge egos and always needed
          to be the center of attention.
          It was funny to listen to and
          see them believe that they
          were a part of the Mahanta's
          (versus the LEM's) inner
          circle. They had no respect
          for HK's RESAs or for other
          high ranking people at the
          ESC. These higher ups were
          seen more as experienced
          "administrators" and not as
          advanced, as the hanger-ons
          were, "spiritually."



          NON-ECKSTER:
          eckankar is all about power and arrogance. eckankar does not do any charitable
          work that I know of nor was it a high priority when I was a member. The highest
          priority was worship of the LEM, simply escaping the earth "ash can" to some
          other ethereal plane of existence. What then is their real understanding of
          LOVE. It is merely a concept devoid of any real feeling of the true sense of the
          word and expression. Theirs is a religion based on FEAR of AUTHORITY. It is also
          very escapist rather than engaging in making the world a better place. It's like
          a mutual admiration society studying their dogma theocracy of fraudulent facts
          and Narcissisticaly looking at themselves in there make believe dreams.



          ME: Charity begins at home...
          is probably the motto Klemp
          would use to justify his position.
          There's always an underlying
          reason for anything Eckankar
          does and it's connected to
          gaining members and making
          money via membership fees,
          donations, and merchandise
          sales.

          Actually it seems like "Mahanta"
          worship is stressed more than
          LEM worship. This is, of course,
          a Black Magician slight-of-hand
          trick, or shell game, since Klemp
          is both the LEM and the Mahanta.
          Yes, Klemp is very adamant about
          Not worshipping or praying to
          him as the Living ECK Master (LEM).
          But, it's expected and encouraged,
          to pray to and worship the Mahanta!
          Yes, ECKists are instructed to dream
          of his image and to contemplate
          upon (pray) to the Mahanta (Klemp)
          for intercession and protection.
          EK Spiritual Exercises were designed
          to focus upon Klemp's picture
          (sold at ECK Centers, or by phone,
          or online at the ESC. All major
          credit cards are accepted... I'm told).

          NON-ECKSTER:
          What good did any eck master (fictional anyway) ever really do. Klemp will never
          get a Nobel Peace Prize, that's for sure.


          ME: It makes for a good story
          that's hard to disprove. People
          have seen and talked to the
          ECK Masters! Can you prove
          that they don't exist? What's
          interesting is that there's more
          evidence that Santa Claus and
          the Easter Bunny exist. Or, that
          Superman exists or that Jesus
          still exists... or existed.

          There's no record beyond
          Twitchell's works, or before
          Twitchell, naming any of the
          ECK Masters. Except, of course,
          for those Twitchell stole from
          history and other religions.
          When people want and need
          to believe and are encouraged
          to dream and to use their
          imaginations to meet with
          entities on other "planes,"
          then, of course they will "see"
          and "talk" to these guys.

          Basically, ECKists Fear Responsibility
          and their own Mastership.
          That's why they need to
          become and remain codependent
          upon Klemp.

          They won't admit to it, but
          he's got the promises via
          higher initiations, and that
          makes him the EK Messiah...
          who's not to be worshipped.
          Tell that to all of those giddy,
          cheering, enamored ECkies
          hanging onto every silly word
          when HK comes out of his
          cave and onto the stage. I've
          seen it for myself and he is
          worshipped!

          Still, it's a schizophrenic game
          that is being played, but that's
          the goal... to confuse and distract!

          Prometheus


          prometheus wrote:
          >
          Hello All,
          I was wondering as to
          why a religion that claims
          to be of the "Highest
          Consciousness" anywhere,
          and for all time, and to
          be the "most direct path
          to God" doesn't practice
          pacifism/peaceful action.

          The argument could be
          that there would be no
          one left to practice their
          belief if they turned the
          other cheek and didn't
          defend themselves by
          killing their enemies
          or those of their country.

          However, the eradication
          of one's enemies isn't an
          option for pacifist religions.
          Everyday life is, of course,
          seen as a test of faith, but
          they take it a step further
          and to the next level.

          Why does ECKankar have
          the same views as other Non-
          Pacifist (violence condoning)
          religions?

          And, what's really interesting
          is that these Pacifist religions,
          EACH, have more members,
          worldwide, and are more widely
          known via historical records
          than ECKankar! The Pacifists
          have a real religious history!
          "ECK" does not!

          So, one has to wonder why
          Klemp (the 14th Plane Mahanta)
          states that it's okay for ECKists
          to be members of the military.
          Is it because he was in the
          U.S. Air Force during the
          Vietnam War and that he
          enjoyed his military experience?

          And, let's not forget that
          the founder of ECKankar,
          Twitchell, was in the U.S.
          Navy during WWII and he,
          also, enjoyed the experience!
          He made it seem that he
          was a real hero!

          Here's a site that lists the
          various Pacifist religions:

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pacifist_faiths#Religion

          Interesting, too, that this
          topic of pacifism is yet another
          unexplored/discussed aspect
          of the ECK Teachings that is
          quickly slid in under the rug
          and is accepted by longtime
          members (H.I.s) without question.
          And, these Higher 6th & 7th
          Initiates, supposedly, have
          a "Spiritual Consciousness"
          beyond that of the *4th Plane
          God (KAL, i.e. the Devil, Satan)
          the Pacifists worship! Amazing!

          Prometheus
          *Autobiography of a Modern
          Prophet, page 385, by Harold
          Klemp
        • postekcon
          SERVICE Service in ekult only counts when it is service TO ekult. MAHANTA The so-named mahanta is one of the many psychic entities of ekult! Ekult members
          Message 4 of 4 , Jan 6, 2012
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            SERVICE
            Service in ekult only counts when it is service TO ekult.

            MAHANTA
            The so-named 'mahanta' is one of the many psychic entities of ekult! Ekult members are constantly reminded to place their attention upon it. The concentration of these thought forces feeds and maintains the entity into being.
            And when attention is withdrawn from an entity; it instantly ceases to exist!!
            -Postekcon


            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hello All,
            > Thanks for the post Non.
            > I'll add my two cents worth
            > below:
            >
            > "Non" wrote:
            > Hi Prometheus,
            > It is even more than just odd that the highest state(s) of consciousness, which
            > are Omnipotent, Omnipresent, and Omniscient are soo shallow. It would seem
            > obvious that there is no need for violence and much room for Compassion.
            > Self-defense would be a mute point. After all, if you are capable of changing
            > the weather and so on then why not make it a nice happy day. But NOOOOOO, ekists
            > claim that they must follow a path of noninterference and indifference. I do not
            > claim any highest state of consciousness, but in my time on earth, I have
            > learned, at least IMHO, that a path of destruction, arrogance, indifference
            > without any sense of empathy is just plain wrong and at the very least
            > unproductive. They may not necessarily be destructive overtly, but there is a
            > sense of passive/aggressiveness and fake smiles.
            >
            >
            >
            > ME: ECKists are conflicted
            > with their religious bullshit
            > (dogma). It's obvious that
            > people "feel" when they love
            > whether it's people or pets.
            > However, Eckists are instructed,
            > early on, that "feelings" are
            > wrong and negative and of
            > the 2nd Astral Plane. But,
            > "unconditional" love is, somehow,
            > seen as being the highest
            > form of love. Thus, non-judgmental
            > love, i.e. unconditional love,
            > is highly sought and is therefore
            > portrayed and emulated.
            > Unfortunately, ECKists don't
            > see the fallacy of separating
            > love and feelings and attempting
            > to turn ECKists into unfeeling
            > sociopathic "yes" men/women.
            >
            >
            >
            > NON-ECKSTER:
            > Lets take one example, that of the use of religion to justify slavery. Many did
            > so, causing great suffering to others and even when the slaves in the U.S. were
            > freed, they were made to suffer for decades. Why aren't there any stories in ek
            > lore about some ek master doing something to end the suffering of humankind or
            > even animals. (Perhaps there is something I recall, about eck masters just
            > hanging out observing and may step in at the last second to save the earth from
            > utter destruction or some such nonsense.)
            >
            >
            > ME: Right! Klemp has EK
            > stories about this or that
            > ECK Master (or the ECK)
            > doing something, but it's
            > all pretty much imagined,
            > embellished, or distorted.
            > And, the stories of these
            > meetings and intercessions
            > are never as good as the
            > stories coming from Christians.
            > I knew some EKists who
            > had their embellished stories
            > mentioned, on stage, by
            > HK and three were printed
            > in HK's Mahanta transcripts.
            > I knew some of these ECkists
            > well enough to know when
            > they were lying. They had
            > huge egos and always needed
            > to be the center of attention.
            > It was funny to listen to and
            > see them believe that they
            > were a part of the Mahanta's
            > (versus the LEM's) inner
            > circle. They had no respect
            > for HK's RESAs or for other
            > high ranking people at the
            > ESC. These higher ups were
            > seen more as experienced
            > "administrators" and not as
            > advanced, as the hanger-ons
            > were, "spiritually."
            >
            >
            >
            > NON-ECKSTER:
            > eckankar is all about power and arrogance. eckankar does not do any charitable
            > work that I know of nor was it a high priority when I was a member. The highest
            > priority was worship of the LEM, simply escaping the earth "ash can" to some
            > other ethereal plane of existence. What then is their real understanding of
            > LOVE. It is merely a concept devoid of any real feeling of the true sense of the
            > word and expression. Theirs is a religion based on FEAR of AUTHORITY. It is also
            > very escapist rather than engaging in making the world a better place. It's like
            > a mutual admiration society studying their dogma theocracy of fraudulent facts
            > and Narcissisticaly looking at themselves in there make believe dreams.
            >
            >
            >
            > ME: Charity begins at home...
            > is probably the motto Klemp
            > would use to justify his position.
            > There's always an underlying
            > reason for anything Eckankar
            > does and it's connected to
            > gaining members and making
            > money via membership fees,
            > donations, and merchandise
            > sales.
            >
            > Actually it seems like "Mahanta"
            > worship is stressed more than
            > LEM worship. This is, of course,
            > a Black Magician slight-of-hand
            > trick, or shell game, since Klemp
            > is both the LEM and the Mahanta.
            > Yes, Klemp is very adamant about
            > Not worshipping or praying to
            > him as the Living ECK Master (LEM).
            > But, it's expected and encouraged,
            > to pray to and worship the Mahanta!
            > Yes, ECKists are instructed to dream
            > of his image and to contemplate
            > upon (pray) to the Mahanta (Klemp)
            > for intercession and protection.
            > EK Spiritual Exercises were designed
            > to focus upon Klemp's picture
            > (sold at ECK Centers, or by phone,
            > or online at the ESC. All major
            > credit cards are accepted... I'm told).
            >
            > NON-ECKSTER:
            > What good did any eck master (fictional anyway) ever really do. Klemp will never
            > get a Nobel Peace Prize, that's for sure.
            >
            >
            > ME: It makes for a good story
            > that's hard to disprove. People
            > have seen and talked to the
            > ECK Masters! Can you prove
            > that they don't exist? What's
            > interesting is that there's more
            > evidence that Santa Claus and
            > the Easter Bunny exist. Or, that
            > Superman exists or that Jesus
            > still exists... or existed.
            >
            > There's no record beyond
            > Twitchell's works, or before
            > Twitchell, naming any of the
            > ECK Masters. Except, of course,
            > for those Twitchell stole from
            > history and other religions.
            > When people want and need
            > to believe and are encouraged
            > to dream and to use their
            > imaginations to meet with
            > entities on other "planes,"
            > then, of course they will "see"
            > and "talk" to these guys.
            >
            > Basically, ECKists Fear Responsibility
            > and their own Mastership.
            > That's why they need to
            > become and remain codependent
            > upon Klemp.
            >
            > They won't admit to it, but
            > he's got the promises via
            > higher initiations, and that
            > makes him the EK Messiah...
            > who's not to be worshipped.
            > Tell that to all of those giddy,
            > cheering, enamored ECkies
            > hanging onto every silly word
            > when HK comes out of his
            > cave and onto the stage. I've
            > seen it for myself and he is
            > worshipped!
            >
            > Still, it's a schizophrenic game
            > that is being played, but that's
            > the goal... to confuse and distract!
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            >
            > prometheus wrote:
            > >
            > Hello All,
            > I was wondering as to
            > why a religion that claims
            > to be of the "Highest
            > Consciousness" anywhere,
            > and for all time, and to
            > be the "most direct path
            > to God" doesn't practice
            > pacifism/peaceful action.
            >
            > The argument could be
            > that there would be no
            > one left to practice their
            > belief if they turned the
            > other cheek and didn't
            > defend themselves by
            > killing their enemies
            > or those of their country.
            >
            > However, the eradication
            > of one's enemies isn't an
            > option for pacifist religions.
            > Everyday life is, of course,
            > seen as a test of faith, but
            > they take it a step further
            > and to the next level.
            >
            > Why does ECKankar have
            > the same views as other Non-
            > Pacifist (violence condoning)
            > religions?
            >
            > And, what's really interesting
            > is that these Pacifist religions,
            > EACH, have more members,
            > worldwide, and are more widely
            > known via historical records
            > than ECKankar! The Pacifists
            > have a real religious history!
            > "ECK" does not!
            >
            > So, one has to wonder why
            > Klemp (the 14th Plane Mahanta)
            > states that it's okay for ECKists
            > to be members of the military.
            > Is it because he was in the
            > U.S. Air Force during the
            > Vietnam War and that he
            > enjoyed his military experience?
            >
            > And, let's not forget that
            > the founder of ECKankar,
            > Twitchell, was in the U.S.
            > Navy during WWII and he,
            > also, enjoyed the experience!
            > He made it seem that he
            > was a real hero!
            >
            > Here's a site that lists the
            > various Pacifist religions:
            >
            > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pacifist_faiths#Religion
            >
            > Interesting, too, that this
            > topic of pacifism is yet another
            > unexplored/discussed aspect
            > of the ECK Teachings that is
            > quickly slid in under the rug
            > and is accepted by longtime
            > members (H.I.s) without question.
            > And, these Higher 6th & 7th
            > Initiates, supposedly, have
            > a "Spiritual Consciousness"
            > beyond that of the *4th Plane
            > God (KAL, i.e. the Devil, Satan)
            > the Pacifists worship! Amazing!
            >
            > Prometheus
            > *Autobiography of a Modern
            > Prophet, page 385, by Harold
            > Klemp
            >
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