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Re: THE THREE MARGS (Another Look At Klemp's EK LEXICON)

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello All, The following was sent to ESA s mail box: Churchward connected Rama back to Ra Mu , apparently. Search for Ra Mu and compare p. 24 (see link) with
    Message 1 of 3 , Dec 30, 2011
      Hello All,
      The following was sent
      to ESA's mail box:

      Churchward connected "Rama" back to Ra Mu", apparently.

      Search for Ra Mu and compare p. 24 (see link) with p. 57 from
      Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad, Vol. 1


      Next search for Ra Ma (at link). See second-last paragraph on p. 68.


      The last two paragraphs on page 68 suggest a Ra Ma in India thousands of years
      before the "Aryan invasion".

      According to sources quoted by Churchward, India was settled (by Mayas) via
      Burma and from the East. (3rd-last paragraph, p. 53, on Churchward link)


      If Paul Twitchell compiled "history" from Churchward (Churchward's book is part
      of the Paul Twitchell recommended reading list at back of Letters to Gail, Vol.
      1) and Paul was familiar with Ra Mu & Ra Ma, then why have Rama coming to India
      from the West (deep forests of Germany, etc.)?

      However, The Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad, Vol. 1, mentions a Rama coming out of the high
      valleys of Tibet. This Rama appears contemporary with the 5th root race, or the
      Aryan. (P. 60 SKS, Vol. 1)

      Khara Khota was mentioned twice in the book (by Churchward) and was apparently
      connected with the Aryans. [end]

      ME: Interesting, except, Twitchell
      stated that the first Root Race, The
      Polarians (Garden of Eden), began
      when? ECK Master Mksha, supposedly,
      was here 35,000 years ago giving
      people his Laws. Which Root Race
      did they belong to? It's nice that
      Twitchell was among the trusted
      resources for this "history."

      BTW-Klemp mimics PT and mentions
      Khara Khota in his 1998 EK Lexicon.
      It's listed as the capital city of the
      empire of Uighur in Central Asia in
      the Gobi Desert during the time
      of the fifth root race, the Aryans.


      Hello All and thanks Sean,
      I decided to list Eckankar's
      "Margs" ["A Path to God"]
      and give a brief definition
      of each...all of which can
      be found in Klemp's first
      EK Lexicon. Let's see how
      PT and HK copied, created,
      and distorted religious dogma:
      1) Arahata Marg- A teacher of ECK Satsang Classes
      2) Bhakti Marg- The ECK order of Love
      3) Bihangham Marg- An accelerated method; movement
      of instant projection into any state of consciousness.
      4) ECK Marg- The secret path of the Sound Current
      5) Giani Marg- The path of esoteric wisdom; studying
      at the Temples of Golden Wisdom
      6) Karma Marg- The approach to God via selflessness
      and harmonious deeds.
      7) Prapatti Marg- Way of liberation by complete
      surrender and devotion to God via the Master.
      8) Vahana Marg- The order of the missionary...
      these are the preachers and true messengers

      From: Sean
      Re: THE THREE MARGS (Another Look At Klemp's EK LEXICON)
      > >
      > >
      This original post from 2008 came up during a search on google .. and seeing I
      recently found some info about the Three Paths to God (or THREE Margs) I thought
      some people here may like to know more about it.
      > >
      In the original post Prometheus wrote:
      > >
      Hello All,
      I was looking at the definition of Margs
      (and the different ones) in the EK Lexicon.
      It's strange that a "marg" is defined as "a
      path to God" and yet it is found within a
      religion that is supposed to be it's own
      path to God!
      > > >
      The Path of the Masters lists these
      margs in Ch.2 Section 10:
      > > >
      Surat Shabd Marg
      > > >
      > >
      That info might make more sense if I may adjust that to this,
      > >
      Jnana or Gian Marg (Knowledge & Wisdom)
      > >
      Dharma or Karma Marg (Action, Doing good, Integrity etc)
      > >
      Bhakti or Devotion Marg (Divine Love beyond the ego-self)
      > >
      These are the THREE PATHS to GOD and these are mentioned in various language &
      semantics in many/most of the eastern teachings.
      > >
      On the other hand ....
      > >
      Surat Shabd Marg .. that is a later *creation* to ride on the shoulders of those
      who have gone before, as a way to re-identify the then *current teaching* by
      whomever; in this particular case Soamiji Maharaj (Shiv Dayal Singh) of RS and
      those that came after him.
      > >
      For by the time that he came along the teachings from the 16th century had again
      morphed out of control or any close resemblance to the true spiritual essences.
      So in this case one has Tulsi Sahib Param Sant Tulsi Sahib of Hathras, and
      others closely connected to him ... verse whatever the religion may have become
      by then .. eg 19th century version of the *religions* or PANTHS of various prior
      Sants & the Naths.
      > >
      So essentially Surat Shabd Marg refers to Sant Mat and the Light and Sound
      teachings that basically started openly (or at least known about now
      historically) in India via Ramananda, Kabir, Nanak, the Naths and so forth. But
      primarily via the many Bhakti Gurus who all came to the for in the 15th & 16th
      centuries .. iow the exact same timing of when Paul said the character Rebazar
      Tarzs was alive.
      > >
      I also recently came across the term *ECK Marg* -- simply the same approach ..
      the re-labelling the *concept of 3 paths to god* into a specific OUTER SINGLE
      Path to be seen as different than all the others.
      > >
      And as Prometheus pointed out, from these 3 core Margs came several more
      multiple alternatives for MARGS within Eckankar. Do they mean anything really?
      Well if people believe they do, then I suppose on one level they mean something
      to them.
      > >
      I fail to see any difference between an Arahata Marg and a Karma Marg. None
      whatsoever, for they are one and the same - *action* that is supposed to
      generate some positive Karma and experiences for the individual entering into
      such ACTIVITY.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      The other point to know about this history is that all of them were strongly
      related to RAMA myth/aspects via the more ancient Vedanta sects of Hinduism,
      which by this time ahas spilt into hundreds of religions/paths and the original
      teachings had been seriously corrupted over centuries by the *priestcraft*.
      > >
      ( I mention this because of Paul's (and later Harold's) repeated references to
      Ramaj or Rama the ARYAN in his *ancient history* reports )
      > >
      What happened during the 15th/16th centuries was an attempt by many to
      *spontaneously & also non-connected* to openly revolt against the mundane
      (dumbed down teachings) and the outer power of the Brahmins and the Moghul
      Muslims over people, intending to be a spiritual revival of the *original core
      truths* of the ancient Aryan teachings that predate known human history -- iow
      ancient myths lost in time.
      > >
      Whilst Kabir may be one of the most known in these days there were very many
      others. eg Eka Sarana Hari Nama Dharma from the Assam region under Sankaradeva.
      > >
      The name of the religion he had propagated is Eka-Sarana Hari-Nāma Dharma, the
      Religion of Taking Refuge with the One God only. This Eka-Sarana had been
      accepted from the Srimad-Bhagavad Gita. Let us discuss here the four slokas from
      the Gita
      > >
      In the religious system introduced by Sankaradeva, a man becomes a devotee by
      the act of initiation which is itself referred to as sarana. Although the
      initiate takes shelter in One (eka-sarana), he is required to prostrate himself
      before each of the four reals (cāri vastu) in turn - Guru (Preceptor), Deva
      (God), Nāma (Name) and Bhakata (Devotee) - saying, "I take shelter in the
      Guru", "I take shelter in God", "I take shelter in Name" and "I take shelter in
      > >
      These four things, which constitute the essence of the devotional experience in
      Assam Vaisnavism, are held to be one and indivisible such that each presupposes
      the existence of the other three.
      > >
      (Does any of that sound familiar?)
      > >
      This key difference with this sect and others referred to generally above was it
      preferred Krishna, although Rama was also seen as a key.
      > >
      (about Naam - Nam - name chanting)
      Whose name `Rāma-Krishna' serves as a boat, as it were,
      Ferrying all sinners across the world-ocean
      Towards the supreme abode
      Such a Lord Krishna,
      Who is eternal and ever-joyous,
      I always worship in my heart.
      > >
      (from a play written by Sankaradeva)
      Krishna or Rama now appears as an ordinary man who is also tormented by
      physical, mental and spiritual conflicts. The greatest lesson that one has to
      draw from this, Shankara Deva tells his audience, is this:
      > >
      - the Lord Himself has undergone trials in life, that He acted in a way that is
      not different from theirs.
      > >
      However, what is a distinctively remarkable feature is the continuous
      interaction of the sutradhara in vernacular with the audience till the entire
      Nat is over. With his shift to the vernacular and to prose, the sutradhara now
      can take the liberty of focusing on the human qualities of the God than the more
      distant and the majestically sublime ones that needed the help of ornamental
      language with Sanskrit slokas and partial dialogue in Sanskrit.
      > >
      In the Ankia Nat, BHAKTI now re-claims its centrality over JNANA and KARMA and a
      meaningful and intimate connection is made between the divine and the human,
      between man and God, to such an extent that ultimately no barriers remain
      between the two.
      > >
      [ as an aside, to me the old renderings (images) of Sankaradeva look the same as
      Mahavarta Babaji of Kriya Yoga SRF fame; which again has it's roots within
      Sanatana Dharma aka Hinduism and more specifically the *sub-sect* of Advaita
      Vedanta ]
      > >
      I am sorry this is so long; but I didn't create the complexity of history nor
      the connections; that there are many is difficult and yet possibly rewarding.
      > >
      Because this next part is the main reason why I am posting this now; and what it
      is that I only found very recently which should connect clearly back to Johnson
      and those quotes at the beginning about the three Margs in PotM book .. and the
      (Jnana) info sourced thru that book and many many others.
      > >
      Full TEXT
      > >
      THE THREE PATHS TO UNION WITH GOD by Annie Besant 1896 [1925].pdf
      > >
      Summary doc of info with quotes (note that there a major spelling errors due to
      OCR text extracts)
      > >
      The Three Paths to God Rama RS Hindu Bhakti Sants PTHA Doc.pdf
      > >
      I hope the above is useful to someone.
      > >
      cheers sean
      > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      I left this part because I thought it was interesting, and somewhat related to
      my reply here.
      > >
      It's interesting how speed reading reduced
      Twitchell's comprehension since he missed
      the 7th and 8th additions to the Six Rays or
      Ways. Klemp, of course, copied the info and
      decided to do his own alterations.
      > > >
      This is just more proof of ECKankar's fraud!
      > > >
      Here's a side-by-side comparison of the
      spellings of the *AMESH-SPENTA -- HOLY
      IMMORTALS the Six (plus Two) RAYS and WAYS :
      > > >
      The Path (1939)---PT (1973&1986)-------HK (1998)
      *Ahura-Mazda.........*Ameshspenta...........*Amesha Spentas
      > > >
      Notice that Klemp's rewrite matches "The Path
      of the Masters" version more than Twitchell's,
      but goes against the other two on "Ameretat!"
      > > >
      ECKists should reread PT's EK Dictonary
      and HK's EK Lexicon and compare the two!
      > > >
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