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Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Nomadic Equations

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  • Austin Atma
    Yes, many of us were looking for that special community or family - and I think that is perfectly natural. The leaders of groups seem to trade on this basic
    Message 1 of 38 , Dec 13, 2011
      Yes, many of us were looking for that "special" community or family - and I think that is perfectly natural.  The leaders of groups seem to trade on this basic human need.  

      On Dec 13, 2011, at 4:05 PM, "Diana Stanley" <dianastanley43@...> wrote:


      The main reason I got into exankar was I came from a shitty childhod.lots of abuse and other ugly stuff.. For me it was a wasy to get out of an ubbearable childhood. Eckankar filled the bill it had a great and filling membership everyone was supportive. It even had an all powerful god head. I was made to feel spealial and my art work was held in great easteam. This was something i never had. I was ready to fall hook ling and sinker for the whole spiel.
      I made some serrious freindsphips and felt safe.
      It took many years to give that up for reality. I think many eckist came from dysfuncal familes and were looking for turth and reality.
      It was diffucult being right in the middle of it when Darwin went crazy and the whole thing fell apart However i made it through and will never get cought up in such a sceme agin. Lucky to had any sanity left after that run. Diana

      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Austin Atma <austinatma@...> wrote:
      > Yep, let's get back to the talking points and nonparty, party line ;-).
      > On Dec 8, 2011, at 2:06 AM, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
      > > Hello AA and All,
      > > No fly paper here
      > > unless you desire
      > > there to be!
      > >
      > > This site's modus
      > > operandi is merely
      > > to discuss our "EK"
      > > experiences from
      > > our newly enlightened
      > > perspectives and to
      > > expose the fraud of
      > > Eckankar. EK claims
      > > to be the most direct
      > > path to God via the
      > > guidance of the LEM/
      > > Mahanta who rewards
      > > Ekists with initiations.
      > > These initiations represent
      > > high levels of "spiritual"
      > > consciousness never
      > > before realized by the
      > > common man.
      > >
      > > I find this ECKanakar
      > > crap worth exposing.
      > > I don't like seeing Klemp
      > > getting away with suckering
      > > people and I feel somewhat
      > > responsible for those
      > > current H.I.s who I had
      > > directly recruited.
      > >
      > > Yes, you seem to have
      > > trouble with grasping
      > > the significance of the
      > > fast-slow initiation enigma.
      > >
      > > It's become a huge elephant
      > > standing in the corner at the
      > > EK Temple, except, nobody
      > > wants to be the first to ask
      > > what everyone else is thinking.
      > > Sorry you've missed the point
      > > and the dogmatic significance
      > > in pursuing this topic. IMO
      > > there are still many nuances
      > > that need explored in order
      > > to uncover the truth about
      > > this particular cult, our need
      > > to believe, and why we became
      > > insane and refused to see,
      > > hear and believe in ourselves.
      > >
      > > Prometheus
      > >
      > > Austin Atma wrote:
      > > Hmmmm...
      > >
      > > Me thinks there may be some fly paper here and while it may be effective at catching flies I didn't realize how sticky it is ;-)
      > >
      > > Not interested in "complaining" but interested in communicating and expressing myself. Making observations, etc. I care about why people get stuck in compulsive loops with cults, but usually there is a predisposition to begin with so it ends up being exactly what it is, what it is ;-). But I don't give a rip about the fast or slow initiations within the cultworld.
      > >
      > > Many moons ago I coined the use of the term "detractor" in juxtaposition with true believer when talking about those of us who hung out in a.r.e. Fun to see it come back to haunt me now. In those days I was a hybrid. I enjoyed David Lane so much I couldn't really be a TBeliever, but I also wasn't a detractor and at the time, glug, was a bit of an apologist. Never in the mode of Marman, but nevertheless I thought one could mix self-honesty with cult membership. Now I don't think so, something about the infallibility of true honesty ;-). In other words authenticity and honest self-revelation is one of the most powerful forms of ringing the cracked bell of freedom.
      > >
      > > AA
      > >
      > > On Dec 7, 2011, at 5:37 PM, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > Hello AA and All,
      > > Voilà ! You've finally caught
      > > onto what I'm doing with
      > > this site... getting Eckists,
      > > and former Eckists, to take
      > > a second look at the tricks,
      > > traps, smoke and mirrors
      > > and the overall Tom foolery
      > > of Eckankar with its nonsensical
      > > propaganda associated with
      > > those fake EK initiations.
      > >
      > > True, some Eckists really
      > > got suckered in while others
      > > never fully committed. My
      > > diatribe is, basically, for the
      > > benefit of those who fully
      > > committed themselves to
      > > the big lie and to those eckists
      > > who are still committed but
      > > are having doubts and misgivings.
      > >
      > > I'm somewhat surprised
      > > that there are former Eckists,
      > > here, who haven't figured
      > > out my agenda by now. Plus,
      > > I do like to play the devil's
      > > advocate in order to make
      > > a point and to get people
      > > to think about the traps of
      > > all religions, but especially,
      > > with Eckankar!
      > >
      > > And, yes, cults are closed
      > > systems and that's why
      > > the inner workings of
      > > Eckankar dogma, guidelines,
      > > and procedures are being
      > > exposed! I thought that was
      > > obvious! This site is bringing
      > > some of these distortions to
      > > light.
      > >
      > > BTW- If Angel can't seem to
      > > care, then why do you? But,
      > > did Angel really not care? I
      > > don't think so! That's why he
      > > helped people... he had a Soul!
      > >
      > > As far as complaining goes
      > > why come on this site if it
      > > bothers you? You're sounding
      > > more like a detractor or an
      > > apologist for Eckankar! Why
      > > the nit-picking? That's what
      > > Marman does!
      > >
      > > As far as Free Speech and Free
      > > Thought... are you saying that
      > > Eckists have these freedoms
      > > because they don't! Any active
      > > Eckist eventually learns to keep
      > > silent and hold their tongue and
      > > the questions. And, they certainly
      > > aren't permitted to complain or
      > > to question, or second guess,
      > > the Mahanta!
      > >
      > > Prometheus
      > >
      > > AA wrote:
      > >
      > > Pro said:
      > >
      > > "ME: Let me say that many longtime
      > > H.I.s, mostly 5ths & 6ths, are frustrated
      > > with the slowing down of the initiations
      > > and the additional service and training
      > > hoops that are now required to jump
      > > through. Of course there are many 7ths
      > > that are frustrated as well because they
      > > have topped out. Many of these H.I.s
      > > have been 7ths for 20-25 years. Forgive
      > > me for saying this, too, but those Eckists
      > > who sat on their hands and didn't take
      > > things seriously and volunteer with time
      > > service, and coin were mostly seen as
      > > flies in the ointment. I remember one
      > > person, long ago, say that all she wanted
      > > was to make it to the 2nd initiation so
      > > that she wouldn't have to reincarnate
      > > back to this ash can."
      > >
      > > To quote Angel (not Angelus): I just can't seem to care.
      > >
      > > This is like complaining about the duct work in the gas chamber, or the color of the needle for the lethal injection.
      > >
      > > I'm serious why do people who are not in wreckankar give a f*** about why people do or don't get initiations? Is it an attempt to make people who are in the cult feel bad because they aren't getting initiations, or make us sound like we care about initations? Cults are closed systems that have their own distorted take on experience in and out of the cult. That closed system and the control figure can jerk initiation perceptions around all day long, or all decade long. If those things are important to us then we are locked into the cultic system of evaluation and judgement.
      > >
      > > While I don't really think there are a lot of card carrying members of the cult here, if I were one I would think it is very strange to see this type of discussion. Free speech, free thought, makes it completely ok to bring anything up, it still just strikes me as odd.
      > >
      > > AA
      > >
      > >

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    • prometheus_973
      Hello Diana, You ve got my curiosity. Please tell me/us more! Prometheus Diana Stanley wrote: I met a perfect soul. He did not want followers and did not have
      Message 38 of 38 , Jan 12, 2012
        Hello Diana,
        You've got my curiosity.
        Please tell me/us more!


        Diana Stanley wrote:
        I met a perfect soul.

        He did not want
        followers and did
        not have a spiritual

        You could listen to
        his words and apply
        them to your spiritual

        He only would let
        people attend his
        talk for two weeks,
        no charge.

        He said everyone has
        a guru inside. You are
        already connected to
        the highest.

        He gave no initiations
        or put anyone higher
        than another.

        He introdced me to
        a way of spiritual
        thinking that I apply
        every day.


        prometheus wrote:
        > Hello All,
        > Well, it seems that this
        > needs a response merely
        > to correct some of the
        > inaccurate info on Darwin
        > if nothing else.
        > Re: Why Doesn't ECKankar Have More and Higher H.I.s?
        > ----- Forwarded Message -----
        > From: shabdamoksha <shabdamoksha@...>
        > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Friday, January 6, 2012 8:09 PM
        > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Why Doesn't ECKankar Have More and
        Higher H.I.s?
        > Dear Eckankar Survivors Anonymous,
        > Responding to your recent post titled: "Why doesn't Eckankar have more and
        Higher HI's?" I emailed Prometheus a response but I will repeat it here. I am an
        Ex-Eckist who was a former member of Eckankar for over 17 years. During that
        time I had several leadership positions such as a state wide service leader.
        > ME: This leadership position
        > must have been a very long
        > time ago. I recall State and
        > Local Rep positions. Actually
        > I forget all the titles. It's like
        > trying to remember the various
        > words describing ECKankar...
        > A Way of Life, The Path of
        > Total Awareness, etc., etc.
        > The reason that Eckankar cannot give higher initiation levels is because
        Eckankar can only bring individuals up to the mental plane. Cosmic consciousness
        is the highest level that Eckankar can bring individuals. That is true now but
        it wasn't true during Paul Twichell's time. After Paul Twitchell translated it
        became a cosmic consciousness path. There are several reasons for this. A reason
        why there are also no Masters in Eckankar is because currentlly Eckankar creates
        followers and not spiritual masters. As I explained it brings people to cosmic
        > ME: No! ECKankar (Klemp) can
        > and does sell higher initiation
        > levels... just not that many 8ths
        > or 9ths. And they're as invalid
        > as any other religious initiation
        > being handed out and sold via
        > membership requirements (fees/
        > donations). Consciousness has
        > to be recognized and achieved
        > by the individual and not handed
        > out by others. Paul Twitchell was
        > no "master" he was a conman,
        > liar, wannabe and plagiarist.
        > Cosmic Consciousness is merely
        > a term used by New Age Westernized
        > religious sects to describe the
        > benefits of their brand of religion.
        > The first reason is that in 1971 when Paul Twitcell translated he never
        declared a successor. He only left a list of six names. The Eckankar leadership
        which included Gail Twitchell, Patty Simpson and others chose Darwin Gross who
        was not a Master but only a ninth initiate. Instead when Paul died he gave
        Rebazar the rod of power and brought the true path of Eckankar non-public and at
        that moment the outer Eckankar became an offshoot. It was at that moment that
        Eckankar was no longer the highest path to God even though it claimed to be.
        > ME: Darwin was dating Gail behind
        > Paul's back. DG had only been
        > an EK member since around 1968
        > and was a third initiate at the time
        > of Paul's death. Gail claimed to
        > have had a dream where Paul told
        > her that Darwin was to be the LEM.
        > Gail was running the show and
        > had the Board's support. Darwin
        > was made a 5th initiate by the EK
        > Board in order to receive the Rod
        > of ECK Power on Oct 22, 1971...
        > 35 days after Paul's death.
        > The Rebazar fill-in story was
        > one that was dreamed up by
        > Klemp. After all, there was no
        > need for a fill-in Mahanta since
        > the Mahanta was still Paul and
        > the story is that there has always
        > been a Mahanta whether in a
        > physical body or not... not every
        > LEM is a Mahanta. A picture was
        > done showing Paul giving the
        > Rod to Darwin.
        > Klemp altered this story to fit
        > the dogma requiring a LEM to
        > pass the Rod. And, HK inferred
        > that Darwin was a 13th initiate
        > and was merely a Mahanta "in
        > training" and not a "full" Mahanta
        > like himself. Thus, the Blue
        > Carnations given to Darwin
        > when he went on stage only
        > indicated that DG was a
        > Mahanta-in-Training.
        > Only the LEM needs a physical
        > body. The ECK dogma requires
        > the LEM to pass the Rod (position)
        > to the next LEM. Thus, the ageless,
        > imaginary Rebazar who Paul
        > dreamed up to initiate him is
        > the natural choice for fill-in.
        > Rebazar Tarzs, supposedly,
        > has his same 500 year old
        > physical body and took the
        > place of the Living ECK Master
        > (Paul) for 35 days in order to
        > pass the Rod of ECK Power
        > to a fake Master (Darwin) who,
        > later, passed it to Klemp! This
        > way Klemp can die while in
        > office and RT, via Joan's dream,
        > can pass the Rod to her choice.
        > Of course, Rebazar didn't really
        > fill-in as LEM for 35 days because
        > he was nowhere in sight! He
        > didn't attend any "physical"
        > meetings or take any calls
        > or make himself available as
        > Klemp would have ECKists
        > imagine. It didn't happen!
        > Can't these longtime ECKists
        > remember? No memos or
        > articles either! Besides, did
        > RT really have to fill-in for
        > 35 days as LEM as Klemp
        > claims? RT, actually, only
        > needed to fill-in for 35 seconds
        > in order to Pass the Rod.
        > Paul Twitchell made a guarantee that initiates can usually reach God
        Realization in 25 years and he guaranteed an initiate can reach God Realization
        in this life time or the next.
        > My friend said: If that guarantee is true than all Eckists would reach it in
        the (next) life. Paul brought initiates up through initiations quickly. The
        reason modern Eckankar has what is called "The Glass Ceiling in Eckankar" is for
        two reasons.
        > The first reason is it would disturb the status quo.
        > The second reason is that Harold although a good person he is only a sharadda,
        a sixth initiate.
        > I do not care to talk negatively about people for when I was in Eckankar he
        helped to bring me many inner experiences, love, and some karmic help. However
        even though a shradda is not a spiritual Master, a sixth initiate is still a
        powerful spiritual being.
        > ME: Wait a minute! God Realization,
        > as well as, Self Mastery and Spiritual
        > Freedom was guaranteed for "this"
        > lifetime as long as one reached the
        > 5th. There was no "next" lifetime
        > after reaching the 2nd initiation!
        > BTW- Klemp is a liar, deceiver and
        > an arrogant wannabe. He sought
        > those phony book awards by fellow
        > publishing companies and paid to be
        > listed in Who's Who. HK's not a 6th
        > either. Twit created a bunch of
        > initiation levels as carrots to be
        > dangled in order to appease egos,
        > thus, they're all phony and Twitchell,
        > their creator, was the phoniest!
        > No one has power over you unless
        > you give them power... remember
        > that? You helped yourself by thinking
        > it was someone else. You could
        > have placed your attention and
        > faith in other areas or with non-living
        > "masters" and had the same outcome
        > and benefits. What they (the religious
        > conmen) don't want you to know
        > is that as Soul... YOU are your
        > own teacher and master.
        > Sure, you can take tid-bits and
        > insights from others but don't
        > rely upon them...that's the trap!
        > Take responsibility and invent
        > your own personal relationship
        > and religion with YOU and Spirit.
        > Besides, what has Klemp said
        > that Paul didn't already say via
        > his plagiarism of Sant Mat...
        > which was another phony religion.
        > While a former member of Eckankar, my partner had an extremely high level of
        success in spiritual exercises on the inner planes mostly in the lower worlds.
        (They were not his imagination) But after 29 years of successful practice he was
        still only a 4th initiate. He hit the "Glass Ceiling in Eckankar" and could go
        no higher. He felt trapped in the lower worlds and blamed himself. Physically he
        was practically dyeing from lack of adequate outflow in spite of his loving
        efforts. He was having lots of inner experiences with Paul Twitchell, Rebazar,
        and other Masters. I also had many inner experiences but felt held back.
        > ME: I had some very phenomenal
        > experiences prior to Eckankar, while
        > in TM, and these weren't imagined
        > either. BTW- This 4th hadn't hit the
        > "Glass Ceiling in Eckankar." Maybe
        > for the outer effort he wanted to
        > put into it he had. The "outflow"
        > supposedly comes from volunteering
        > for intros, as a Satsang Arahata,
        > and for local leadership positions,
        > etc. There had to be something
        > "wrong" with a person who has 29
        > years in and is still a 4th. Did he
        > fall asleep during meetings, classes,
        > and at the EWS and say he was
        > getting it all on the "inner?" That's
        > frowned upon by RESAs and is
        > probably why he wasn't promoted
        > if that was the case. I knew of a
        > guy who was a 4th with the same
        > amount of time as a 4th and this
        > was his problem. Maybe it was
        > the same guy. I think he finally
        > got promoted to the 5th when
        > a friend of his became the RESA.
        > Shortly after this we called out to God for God Realization. Our call was
        answered and we both had profound light and sound God Worlds experiences with
        the true successor of Paul Twitchel. We had profound experiences of being
        brought up to higher states of consciousness much more quickly than Eckankar.
        Eckankar is currently only an offshoot and no longer the highest path to God.
        > ME: And who was the "true successor"
        > of Paul.... Bernie Madeoff (sic?)? Gail?
        > Oops! It couldn't be Gail since it has to
        > be a guy right? That old negative atom
        > polarity thingie right? So, Eckankar is
        > an offshoot of an offshoot of an offshoot.
        > What does that make this other "highest
        > path?" Sikhism had the Radasoami offshoot.
        > Ruhani Satsang was the offshoot of this
        > that Twitchell joined under Kirpal Singh
        > and then he created his own offshoot
        > Eckankar. So, do you follow the offshoot
        > created by Twitchell? True, Klemp created
        > his own offshoot of the original Eckankar
        > created by Twitchell.
        > No person is perfect and it is pointless to dwell on the many human flaws of
        individuals. It is a common misconception that Spiritual Masters are made of
        plastic, perfect beings incapable of human mistakes and human emotions. Yes, as
        many say Paul made human mistakes, because masters are not perfect as many
        falsely assume. Masters have emotions and make human errors. The mythology that
        masters are perfect is a myth that keeps people believing that Mastership is an
        impossible goal of some far distant future, never to be had by any humble
        person. But Paul was a true Master even though he made some mistakes. People can
        dwell on such superficiality of his tiny mistakes until the cows jump over the
        moon but they will never learn the truth because they don't want God.
        > ME: Is Rebazar Tarzs perfect?
        > What mistakes has he made?
        > You see, Rebazar is perfect
        > because Rebazar is imaginary!
        > Rebazar's existence is myth!
        > When I shared with a few close friends in Eckankar about my God Realization
        experience they were so focused on their initiation, status, dogma, personality
        worship, habit pattern thought that they didn't hear a word of it or care to
        know anything about it. They built a 12 foot high wall of fear and were quick to
        judge me. Another friend did care and his life changed overnight.
        > I feel too many people prefer spiritual fluff, distractions, status, dogma, or
        the safety of closed off beliefs to embracing God. All I wanted was God. And I
        prayed to God for three days to be shown who is the true Mahanta who could bring
        me to God and my call was answered. What is the point of being in Eckankar if
        not to connect with God, and reach self and God Realization in this life and not
        a million years from now.
        > It is like Paul Twichell once said: Only the bold and adventurous find God.
        > Many people don't want a true connection with God, Self Realization, or God
        Realization because they are afraid to become the spiritual giant that they
        already are. I am a spiritual master now and it doesn't concern me if no one
        believes me or knows. But I am concerned if people who want to truly connect
        with God or God Realization don't because they are being misled by people who
        don't love them truly.
        > May the blessings be, Shabdamoksha [end]
        > ME: God Realization experiences
        > are subjective. It was probably
        > a Cosmic Consciousness experience.
        > Just kidding. However, a rose
        > is still a rose by any other name.
        > I try not to get caught up in
        > classifying, pigeon holing, and
        > judging my own private, personal,
        > unique spiritual experiences.
        > What do I know? True, people
        > do go for the religious bullshit.
        > New Agers are just as much the
        > suckers and fools (not for God)
        > as the hugely populated religions.
        > BTW- Twit also stated (long ago)
        > in the Square Peg article that he
        > was a Cliffhanger and that the
        > Cliffhanger is his own religion!
        > There's a point in everyone's
        > life when they has learned enough
        > that they no longer need to be
        > a joiner. Soul doesn't need mental
        > plane dogma and a physical plane
        > religion or a master. IT is the Master
        > and always has a relationship with
        > Spirit...
        > Prometheus
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