Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Nomadic Equations
- Yep, let's get back to the talking points and nonparty, party line ;-).
On Dec 8, 2011, at 2:06 AM, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
Hello AA and All,
No fly paper here
unless you desire
there to be!
This site's modus
operandi is merely
to discuss our "EK"
our newly enlightened
perspectives and to
expose the fraud of
Eckankar. EK claims
to be the most direct
path to God via the
guidance of the LEM/
Mahanta who rewards
Ekists with initiations.
These initiations represent
high levels of "spiritual"
before realized by the
I find this ECKanakar
crap worth exposing.
I don't like seeing Klemp
getting away with suckering
people and I feel somewhat
responsible for those
current H.I.s who I had
Yes, you seem to have
trouble with grasping
the significance of the
fast-slow initiation enigma.
It's become a huge elephant
standing in the corner at the
EK Temple, except, nobody
wants to be the first to ask
what everyone else is thinking.
Sorry you've missed the point
and the dogmatic significance
in pursuing this topic. IMO
there are still many nuances
that need explored in order
to uncover the truth about
this particular cult, our need
to believe, and why we became
insane and refused to see,
hear and believe in ourselves.
Austin Atma wrote:
Me thinks there may be some fly paper here and while it may be effective at catching flies I didn't realize how sticky it is ;-)
Not interested in "complaining" but interested in communicating and expressing myself. Making observations, etc. I care about why people get stuck in compulsive loops with cults, but usually there is a predisposition to begin with so it ends up being exactly what it is, what it is ;-). But I don't give a rip about the fast or slow initiations within the cultworld.
Many moons ago I coined the use of the term "detractor" in juxtaposition with true believer when talking about those of us who hung out in a.r.e. Fun to see it come back to haunt me now. In those days I was a hybrid. I enjoyed David Lane so much I couldn't really be a TBeliever, but I also wasn't a detractor and at the time, glug, was a bit of an apologist. Never in the mode of Marman, but nevertheless I thought one could mix self-honesty with cult membership. Now I don't think so, something about the infallibility of true honesty ;-). In other words authenticity and honest self-revelation is one of the most powerful forms of ringing the cracked bell of freedom.
On Dec 7, 2011, at 5:37 PM, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
Hello AA and All,
VoilÃ ! You've finally caught
onto what I'm doing with
this site... getting Eckists,
and former Eckists, to take
a second look at the tricks,
traps, smoke and mirrors
and the overall Tom foolery
of Eckankar with its nonsensical
propaganda associated with
those fake EK initiations.
True, some Eckists really
got suckered in while others
never fully committed. My
diatribe is, basically, for the
benefit of those who fully
committed themselves to
the big lie and to those eckists
who are still committed but
are having doubts and misgivings.
I'm somewhat surprised
that there are former Eckists,
here, who haven't figured
out my agenda by now. Plus,
I do like to play the devil's
advocate in order to make
a point and to get people
to think about the traps of
all religions, but especially,
And, yes, cults are closed
systems and that's why
the inner workings of
Eckankar dogma, guidelines,
and procedures are being
exposed! I thought that was
obvious! This site is bringing
some of these distortions to
BTW- If Angel can't seem to
care, then why do you? But,
did Angel really not care? I
don't think so! That's why he
helped people... he had a Soul!
As far as complaining goes
why come on this site if it
bothers you? You're sounding
more like a detractor or an
apologist for Eckankar! Why
the nit-picking? That's what
As far as Free Speech and Free
Thought... are you saying that
Eckists have these freedoms
because they don't! Any active
Eckist eventually learns to keep
silent and hold their tongue and
the questions. And, they certainly
aren't permitted to complain or
to question, or second guess,
"ME: Let me say that many longtime
H.I.s, mostly 5ths & 6ths, are frustrated
with the slowing down of the initiations
and the additional service and training
hoops that are now required to jump
through. Of course there are many 7ths
that are frustrated as well because they
have topped out. Many of these H.I.s
have been 7ths for 20-25 years. Forgive
me for saying this, too, but those Eckists
who sat on their hands and didn't take
things seriously and volunteer with time
service, and coin were mostly seen as
flies in the ointment. I remember one
person, long ago, say that all she wanted
was to make it to the 2nd initiation so
that she wouldn't have to reincarnate
back to this ash can."
To quote Angel (not Angelus): I just can't seem to care.
This is like complaining about the duct work in the gas chamber, or the color of the needle for the lethal injection.
I'm serious why do people who are not in wreckankar give a f*** about why people do or don't get initiations? Is it an attempt to make people who are in the cult feel bad because they aren't getting initiations, or make us sound like we care about initations? Cults are closed systems that have their own distorted take on experience in and out of the cult. That closed system and the control figure can jerk initiation perceptions around all day long, or all decade long. If those things are important to us then we are locked into the cultic system of evaluation and judgement.
While I don't really think there are a lot of card carrying members of the cult here, if I were one I would think it is very strange to see this type of discussion. Free speech, free thought, makes it completely ok to bring anything up, it still just strikes me as odd.
- Hello Diana,
You've got my curiosity.
Please tell me/us more!
Diana Stanley wrote:
I met a perfect soul.
He did not want
followers and did
not have a spiritual
You could listen to
his words and apply
them to your spiritual
He only would let
people attend his
talk for two weeks,
He said everyone has
a guru inside. You are
already connected to
He gave no initiations
or put anyone higher
He introdced me to
a way of spiritual
thinking that I apply
> Hello All,
> Well, it seems that this
> needs a response merely
> to correct some of the
> inaccurate info on Darwin
> if nothing else.
> Re: Why Doesn't ECKankar Have More and Higher H.I.s?
> ----- Forwarded Message -----
> From: shabdamoksha <shabdamoksha@...>
> To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, January 6, 2012 8:09 PM
> Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Why Doesn't ECKankar Have More and
>Higher HI's?" I emailed Prometheus a response but I will repeat it here. I am an
> Dear Eckankar Survivors Anonymous,
> Responding to your recent post titled: "Why doesn't Eckankar have more and
Ex-Eckist who was a former member of Eckankar for over 17 years. During that
time I had several leadership positions such as a state wide service leader.
>Eckankar can only bring individuals up to the mental plane. Cosmic consciousness
> ME: This leadership position
> must have been a very long
> time ago. I recall State and
> Local Rep positions. Actually
> I forget all the titles. It's like
> trying to remember the various
> words describing ECKankar...
> A Way of Life, The Path of
> Total Awareness, etc., etc.
> The reason that Eckankar cannot give higher initiation levels is because
is the highest level that Eckankar can bring individuals. That is true now but
it wasn't true during Paul Twichell's time. After Paul Twitchell translated it
became a cosmic consciousness path. There are several reasons for this. A reason
why there are also no Masters in Eckankar is because currentlly Eckankar creates
followers and not spiritual masters. As I explained it brings people to cosmic
>declared a successor. He only left a list of six names. The Eckankar leadership
> ME: No! ECKankar (Klemp) can
> and does sell higher initiation
> levels... just not that many 8ths
> or 9ths. And they're as invalid
> as any other religious initiation
> being handed out and sold via
> membership requirements (fees/
> donations). Consciousness has
> to be recognized and achieved
> by the individual and not handed
> out by others. Paul Twitchell was
> no "master" he was a conman,
> liar, wannabe and plagiarist.
> Cosmic Consciousness is merely
> a term used by New Age Westernized
> religious sects to describe the
> benefits of their brand of religion.
> The first reason is that in 1971 when Paul Twitcell translated he never
which included Gail Twitchell, Patty Simpson and others chose Darwin Gross who
was not a Master but only a ninth initiate. Instead when Paul died he gave
Rebazar the rod of power and brought the true path of Eckankar non-public and at
that moment the outer Eckankar became an offshoot. It was at that moment that
Eckankar was no longer the highest path to God even though it claimed to be.
>Realization in 25 years and he guaranteed an initiate can reach God Realization
> ME: Darwin was dating Gail behind
> Paul's back. DG had only been
> an EK member since around 1968
> and was a third initiate at the time
> of Paul's death. Gail claimed to
> have had a dream where Paul told
> her that Darwin was to be the LEM.
> Gail was running the show and
> had the Board's support. Darwin
> was made a 5th initiate by the EK
> Board in order to receive the Rod
> of ECK Power on Oct 22, 1971...
> 35 days after Paul's death.
> The Rebazar fill-in story was
> one that was dreamed up by
> Klemp. After all, there was no
> need for a fill-in Mahanta since
> the Mahanta was still Paul and
> the story is that there has always
> been a Mahanta whether in a
> physical body or not... not every
> LEM is a Mahanta. A picture was
> done showing Paul giving the
> Rod to Darwin.
> Klemp altered this story to fit
> the dogma requiring a LEM to
> pass the Rod. And, HK inferred
> that Darwin was a 13th initiate
> and was merely a Mahanta "in
> training" and not a "full" Mahanta
> like himself. Thus, the Blue
> Carnations given to Darwin
> when he went on stage only
> indicated that DG was a
> Only the LEM needs a physical
> body. The ECK dogma requires
> the LEM to pass the Rod (position)
> to the next LEM. Thus, the ageless,
> imaginary Rebazar who Paul
> dreamed up to initiate him is
> the natural choice for fill-in.
> Rebazar Tarzs, supposedly,
> has his same 500 year old
> physical body and took the
> place of the Living ECK Master
> (Paul) for 35 days in order to
> pass the Rod of ECK Power
> to a fake Master (Darwin) who,
> later, passed it to Klemp! This
> way Klemp can die while in
> office and RT, via Joan's dream,
> can pass the Rod to her choice.
> Of course, Rebazar didn't really
> fill-in as LEM for 35 days because
> he was nowhere in sight! He
> didn't attend any "physical"
> meetings or take any calls
> or make himself available as
> Klemp would have ECKists
> imagine. It didn't happen!
> Can't these longtime ECKists
> remember? No memos or
> articles either! Besides, did
> RT really have to fill-in for
> 35 days as LEM as Klemp
> claims? RT, actually, only
> needed to fill-in for 35 seconds
> in order to Pass the Rod.
> Paul Twitchell made a guarantee that initiates can usually reach God
in this life time or the next.
>the (next) life. Paul brought initiates up through initiations quickly. The
> My friend said: If that guarantee is true than all Eckists would reach it in
reason modern Eckankar has what is called "The Glass Ceiling in Eckankar" is for
>a sixth initiate.
> The first reason is it would disturb the status quo.
> The second reason is that Harold although a good person he is only a sharadda,
>helped to bring me many inner experiences, love, and some karmic help. However
> I do not care to talk negatively about people for when I was in Eckankar he
even though a shradda is not a spiritual Master, a sixth initiate is still a
powerful spiritual being.
>success in spiritual exercises on the inner planes mostly in the lower worlds.
> ME: Wait a minute! God Realization,
> as well as, Self Mastery and Spiritual
> Freedom was guaranteed for "this"
> lifetime as long as one reached the
> 5th. There was no "next" lifetime
> after reaching the 2nd initiation!
> BTW- Klemp is a liar, deceiver and
> an arrogant wannabe. He sought
> those phony book awards by fellow
> publishing companies and paid to be
> listed in Who's Who. HK's not a 6th
> either. Twit created a bunch of
> initiation levels as carrots to be
> dangled in order to appease egos,
> thus, they're all phony and Twitchell,
> their creator, was the phoniest!
> No one has power over you unless
> you give them power... remember
> that? You helped yourself by thinking
> it was someone else. You could
> have placed your attention and
> faith in other areas or with non-living
> "masters" and had the same outcome
> and benefits. What they (the religious
> conmen) don't want you to know
> is that as Soul... YOU are your
> own teacher and master.
> Sure, you can take tid-bits and
> insights from others but don't
> rely upon them...that's the trap!
> Take responsibility and invent
> your own personal relationship
> and religion with YOU and Spirit.
> Besides, what has Klemp said
> that Paul didn't already say via
> his plagiarism of Sant Mat...
> which was another phony religion.
> While a former member of Eckankar, my partner had an extremely high level of
(They were not his imagination) But after 29 years of successful practice he was
still only a 4th initiate. He hit the "Glass Ceiling in Eckankar" and could go
no higher. He felt trapped in the lower worlds and blamed himself. Physically he
was practically dyeing from lack of adequate outflow in spite of his loving
efforts. He was having lots of inner experiences with Paul Twitchell, Rebazar,
and other Masters. I also had many inner experiences but felt held back.
>answered and we both had profound light and sound God Worlds experiences with
> ME: I had some very phenomenal
> experiences prior to Eckankar, while
> in TM, and these weren't imagined
> either. BTW- This 4th hadn't hit the
> "Glass Ceiling in Eckankar." Maybe
> for the outer effort he wanted to
> put into it he had. The "outflow"
> supposedly comes from volunteering
> for intros, as a Satsang Arahata,
> and for local leadership positions,
> etc. There had to be something
> "wrong" with a person who has 29
> years in and is still a 4th. Did he
> fall asleep during meetings, classes,
> and at the EWS and say he was
> getting it all on the "inner?" That's
> frowned upon by RESAs and is
> probably why he wasn't promoted
> if that was the case. I knew of a
> guy who was a 4th with the same
> amount of time as a 4th and this
> was his problem. Maybe it was
> the same guy. I think he finally
> got promoted to the 5th when
> a friend of his became the RESA.
> Shortly after this we called out to God for God Realization. Our call was
the true successor of Paul Twitchel. We had profound experiences of being
brought up to higher states of consciousness much more quickly than Eckankar.
Eckankar is currently only an offshoot and no longer the highest path to God.
>individuals. It is a common misconception that Spiritual Masters are made of
> ME: And who was the "true successor"
> of Paul.... Bernie Madeoff (sic?)? Gail?
> Oops! It couldn't be Gail since it has to
> be a guy right? That old negative atom
> polarity thingie right? So, Eckankar is
> an offshoot of an offshoot of an offshoot.
> What does that make this other "highest
> path?" Sikhism had the Radasoami offshoot.
> Ruhani Satsang was the offshoot of this
> that Twitchell joined under Kirpal Singh
> and then he created his own offshoot
> Eckankar. So, do you follow the offshoot
> created by Twitchell? True, Klemp created
> his own offshoot of the original Eckankar
> created by Twitchell.
> No person is perfect and it is pointless to dwell on the many human flaws of
plastic, perfect beings incapable of human mistakes and human emotions. Yes, as
many say Paul made human mistakes, because masters are not perfect as many
falsely assume. Masters have emotions and make human errors. The mythology that
masters are perfect is a myth that keeps people believing that Mastership is an
impossible goal of some far distant future, never to be had by any humble
person. But Paul was a true Master even though he made some mistakes. People can
dwell on such superficiality of his tiny mistakes until the cows jump over the
moon but they will never learn the truth because they don't want God.
>experience they were so focused on their initiation, status, dogma, personality
> ME: Is Rebazar Tarzs perfect?
> What mistakes has he made?
> You see, Rebazar is perfect
> because Rebazar is imaginary!
> Rebazar's existence is myth!
> When I shared with a few close friends in Eckankar about my God Realization
worship, habit pattern thought that they didn't hear a word of it or care to
know anything about it. They built a 12 foot high wall of fear and were quick to
judge me. Another friend did care and his life changed overnight.
>the safety of closed off beliefs to embracing God. All I wanted was God. And I
> I feel too many people prefer spiritual fluff, distractions, status, dogma, or
prayed to God for three days to be shown who is the true Mahanta who could bring
me to God and my call was answered. What is the point of being in Eckankar if
not to connect with God, and reach self and God Realization in this life and not
a million years from now.
>Realization because they are afraid to become the spiritual giant that they
> It is like Paul Twichell once said: Only the bold and adventurous find God.
> Many people don't want a true connection with God, Self Realization, or God
already are. I am a spiritual master now and it doesn't concern me if no one
believes me or knows. But I am concerned if people who want to truly connect
with God or God Realization don't because they are being misled by people who
don't love them truly.
> May the blessings be, Shabdamoksha [end]
> ME: God Realization experiences
> are subjective. It was probably
> a Cosmic Consciousness experience.
> Just kidding. However, a rose
> is still a rose by any other name.
> I try not to get caught up in
> classifying, pigeon holing, and
> judging my own private, personal,
> unique spiritual experiences.
> What do I know? True, people
> do go for the religious bullshit.
> New Agers are just as much the
> suckers and fools (not for God)
> as the hugely populated religions.
> BTW- Twit also stated (long ago)
> in the Square Peg article that he
> was a Cliffhanger and that the
> Cliffhanger is his own religion!
> There's a point in everyone's
> life when they has learned enough
> that they no longer need to be
> a joiner. Soul doesn't need mental
> plane dogma and a physical plane
> religion or a master. IT is the Master
> and always has a relationship with