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The So-Called and Imagined Advantages of ECK Membership

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  • prometheus_973
    Would anybody like to comment upon PT s and, now, Klemp s snake-oil remedies for all that ail you? ****************************** Advanced Spiritual Study as a
    Message 1 of 9 , Oct 27, 2011
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      Would anybody like to
      comment upon PT's and,
      now, Klemp's snake-oil
      remedies for all that ail
      you?


      ******************************
      Advanced Spiritual Study as a
      Next Step on the Road Home
      to God


      Experience the miracle of
      spiritual growth A true spiritual
      teaching makes a link between
      God and you. And it provides
      a guide to help make your
      journey as easy and direct
      as possible.

      Eckankar has an inner and
      outer living guide. He has
      made the journey into the
      heart of God but has returned
      to help us on our way to Self-
      Realization and, ultimately,
      God-Realization. This guide
      is the Mahanta, the Living
      ECK Master.

      The next step on your
      spiritual journey can be
      linking up with him through
      membership in Eckankar.
      You will then experience
      the awesome miracle of
      advanced spiritual growth—
      a life of joy, meaning, and
      creativity.

      Who are the members of Eckankar?

      Members of Eckankar (ECKists)
      come from all walks of life.
      ECKists are homemakers,
      businesspeople, and retirees.
      They are professionals, educators,
      scientists, and farmers. They
      come from all age-groups, a
      ll races and nationalities, and
      all religious backgrounds.

      Like most people, ECKists
      have families, careers, and
      daily struggles. They live
      a life of joyful participation
      in the mainstream of society.

      ECKists know they're responsible
      for their own experiences in
      life. They know tomorrow is
      the result of today's thoughts,
      feelings, and actions. They
      also know that giving love
      and service to their family
      and community is one way
      to increase their understanding
      of God's love.

      More about membership in
      Eckankar:

      Spiritual Benefits—Reach
      your highest spiritual potential.
      See the bigger picture of life.
      Explore the many facets of
      divine truth.

      Discourses—Take the next
      step on your spiritual journey.
      Study at home or in classes.

      Initiations—Climb the stairway
      to spiritual freedom through
      the ECK initiations—the direct
      link between Soul and Divine
      Spirit.

      ECK Activities—Worship services,
      introductory presentations,
      book discussion classes, seminars,
      spiritual fellowship.

      Membership Facts—Individual
      and family memberships, publications,
      youth study.

      ***************************************

      BTW- I found this info on:
      http://www.eckankar.org/Membership/index.html
      listed on a FB site:

      https://www.facebook.com/EckankarArizona
    • Non
      This reminds me of the current bombardment of Mormon TV ads. All of these persons in the ads try to convince you of how wonderful and normal their lives are
      Message 2 of 9 , Oct 27, 2011
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        This reminds me of the current bombardment of Mormon TV ads. All of these persons in the ads try to convince you of how wonderful and normal their lives are and the last statement they say is "...and I am Mormon". Ekists will do the same thing at first, a wolf in sheep's clothing, hiding their bizarre beliefs.

        As far as ekankar curing all that ails you? No, in fact It often seems to me that there is more of a sense of additional suffering when things don't go well, especially health problems. It's kind of like what happened with Steve Jobs. At one point in his life he believed that he didn't need to shower because of his vegan diet and spiritual beliefs even though his coworkers had filed complaints. His beliefs may have opened up a wealth of creativity, but I think he was already a creative guy and very intelligent. This did not make him the most compassionate of persons, from what I understand about his Biography, even though he was supposedly a Zen Buddhist. He was also prone to a similar MAGIKAL thinking that ekists fall for. Steve Jobs tried psychics, some kind of macro vegan diet, acupuncture, etc., when it is quite possible that he was fortunate to have had the type of pancreatic cancer that could have been cured with surgery, but he didn't like the idea of someone cutting his body open.

        My experience with some ekists though, is that when push comes to shove, they go with what their doctors tell them they should do, especially if their spouse has anything to say about it. It's "as if" they have a split personality. That can't feel very good.

        It's all just MAGIKAL thinking that ekankar and klemp do anything, but may in fact cause a form of suffering by keeping them in a state of delusional self-contempt and anxiety, as they can't really live up to expectations that are always out of reach. Without true compassion, life is just kind of miserable IMHO. To err is Human and life is just not that easy, even for the richest guy in the cemetery.

        noneckster ; )

        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
        >
        > Would anybody like to
        > comment upon PT's and,
        > now, Klemp's snake-oil
        > remedies for all that ail
        > you?
        >
        >
        > ******************************
        > Advanced Spiritual Study as a
        > Next Step on the Road Home
        > to God
        >
        >
        > Experience the miracle of
        > spiritual growth A true spiritual
        > teaching makes a link between
        > God and you. And it provides
        > a guide to help make your
        > journey as easy and direct
        > as possible.
        >
        > Eckankar has an inner and
        > outer living guide. He has
        > made the journey into the
        > heart of God but has returned
        > to help us on our way to Self-
        > Realization and, ultimately,
        > God-Realization. This guide
        > is the Mahanta, the Living
        > ECK Master.
        >
        > The next step on your
        > spiritual journey can be
        > linking up with him through
        > membership in Eckankar.
        > You will then experience
        > the awesome miracle of
        > advanced spiritual growth—
        > a life of joy, meaning, and
        > creativity.
        >
        > Who are the members of Eckankar?
        >
        > Members of Eckankar (ECKists)
        > come from all walks of life.
        > ECKists are homemakers,
        > businesspeople, and retirees.
        > They are professionals, educators,
        > scientists, and farmers. They
        > come from all age-groups, a
        > ll races and nationalities, and
        > all religious backgrounds.
        >
        > Like most people, ECKists
        > have families, careers, and
        > daily struggles. They live
        > a life of joyful participation
        > in the mainstream of society.
        >
        > ECKists know they're responsible
        > for their own experiences in
        > life. They know tomorrow is
        > the result of today's thoughts,
        > feelings, and actions. They
        > also know that giving love
        > and service to their family
        > and community is one way
        > to increase their understanding
        > of God's love.
        >
        > More about membership in
        > Eckankar:
        >
        > Spiritual Benefits—Reach
        > your highest spiritual potential.
        > See the bigger picture of life.
        > Explore the many facets of
        > divine truth.
        >
        > Discourses—Take the next
        > step on your spiritual journey.
        > Study at home or in classes.
        >
        > Initiations—Climb the stairway
        > to spiritual freedom through
        > the ECK initiations—the direct
        > link between Soul and Divine
        > Spirit.
        >
        > ECK Activities—Worship services,
        > introductory presentations,
        > book discussion classes, seminars,
        > spiritual fellowship.
        >
        > Membership Facts—Individual
        > and family memberships, publications,
        > youth study.
        >
        > ***************************************
        >
        > BTW- I found this info on:
        > http://www.eckankar.org/Membership/index.html
        > listed on a FB site:
        >
        > https://www.facebook.com/EckankarArizona
        >
      • prometheus_973
        Hello Non and All, Yes, it seems Klemp is mimicking the Mormon ads kinda like the 100th monkey! Eckankar, Mormonism and Scientology have a few similarities...
        Message 3 of 9 , Oct 28, 2011
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          Hello Non and All,
          Yes, it seems Klemp
          is mimicking the
          Mormon ads kinda
          like the 100th monkey!

          Eckankar, Mormonism
          and Scientology have
          a few similarities...
          except for the number
          of members thanks to
          Klemp... that reclusive
          and impotent little weasel
          of a Mahanta/God/Inner
          Master.

          Inner communication
          never actually worked,
          except, in one's mind
          via dreams. Proof? Why
          aren't there "Inner EK
          Seminars" where H.I.s
          are at least attending
          via "lucid dreaming"...
          which is still a 4th Mental
          Plane function! Or, how
          about the "Direct Projection"
          method of Soul Travel?

          There's no "next step"
          with Eckankar... only
          old promises that were
          never realized via objective
          standards. EK "stories"
          need "outer written"
          approval not "inner"
          approval.

          There is no "Inner"
          Eckankar! But, Eckists
          will continue to buy into
          the lie because it's all
          they have and it feels
          good... like an old pair
          of shoes that you're still
          attached to and won't
          throw out. Klemp still
          has ECKists focusing
          upon the 6th Astral Chakra,
          the Tisra Til (Third Eye),
          versus the 7th Crown
          Chakra when HUing.
          What's with that after
          30 years with Klemp?

          As for Steve Jobs...
          yes, he regretted doing
          the New Age Homeopathic
          thing and waiting too
          long for traditional treatment.
          It reminded me of Klemp's
          advice to his oldest brother,
          Duane, who died of cancer
          in the mid 1980's. Klemp
          told Duane that he should
          go to Mexico for Laetrile
          treatments.

          BTW- How can Klemp
          be the real Mahanta when
          Eckankar's Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad,
          Book One states that the
          Mahanta has a Virgin Birth
          and Klemp had an older
          brother? Check the index
          on "Mahanta, birth of"
          for the page number.

          True, many Eckists do
          go to traditional doctors,
          but many don't. These
          will emulate Klemp in
          everything they do. Look
          at those with EMR/EMF
          problems just like Klemp
          has! ECKies think HK is
          "all knowing," and according
          to the PR he (the Mahanta)
          should be, but every
          now-and-then he'll make
          a Catch-22 disclaimer
          by saying he's "not perfect"
          which is odd since the
          "GOD" that people of
          other religions worship
          is perfect! Although, Klemp
          claims this God is merely
          a 2nd or 4th Plane God
          (Kal, i.e. Satan or Devil)
          while he is of the 14th
          Plane of Consciousness.
          [See page 385 of Klemp's
          "Autobiography of a Modern
          Prophet"]

          This is just one more little
          tid-bit of info that ECKists
          tend to Not share, especially,
          at introductory talks or when
          rubbing shoulders (infiltrating)
          with those from other "spiritual"
          paths.

          Prometheus


          "Non" eckchains wrote:

          This reminds me of the
          current bombardment
          of Mormon TV ads. All
          of these persons in the
          ads try to convince you
          of how wonderful and
          normal their lives are
          and the last statement
          they say is "...and I am
          Mormon". Ekists will do
          the same thing at first,
          a wolf in sheep's clothing,
          hiding their bizarre beliefs.

          As far as ekankar curing
          all that ails you? No, in
          fact It often seems to me
          that there is more of a
          sense of additional suffering
          when things don't go well,
          especially health problems.
          It's kind of like what happened
          with Steve Jobs. At one point
          in his life he believed that
          he didn't need to shower
          because of his vegan diet
          and spiritual beliefs even
          though his coworkers had
          filed complaints.

          His beliefs may have opened
          up a wealth of creativity, but
          I think he was already a creative
          guy and very intelligent. This
          did not make him the most
          compassionate of persons,
          from what I understand about
          his Biography, even though
          he was supposedly a Zen
          Buddhist. He was also prone
          to a similar MAGIKAL thinking
          that ekists fall for.

          Steve Jobs tried psychics,
          some kind of macro vegan
          diet, acupuncture, etc., when
          it is quite possible that he
          was fortunate to have had
          the type of pancreatic cancer
          that could have been cured
          with surgery, but he didn't
          like the idea of someone
          cutting his body open.

          My experience with some
          ekists though, is that when
          push comes to shove, they
          go with what their doctors
          tell them they should do,
          especially if their spouse
          has anything to say about it.
          It's "as if" they have a split
          personality. That can't feel
          very good.

          It's all just MAGIKAL thinking
          that ekankar and klemp do
          anything, but may in fact
          cause a form of suffering
          by keeping them in a state
          of delusional self-contempt
          and anxiety, as they can't
          really live up to expectations
          that are always out of reach.
          Without true compassion,
          life is just kind of miserable
          IMHO. To err is Human and
          life is just not that easy, even
          for the richest guy in the
          cemetery.

          noneckster ; )

          prometheus wrote:
          >
          > Would anybody like to
          > comment upon PT's and,
          > now, Klemp's snake-oil
          > remedies for all that ail
          > you?
          >
          >
          > ******************************
          > Advanced Spiritual Study as a
          > Next Step on the Road Home
          > to God
          >
          >
          > Experience the miracle of
          > spiritual growth A true spiritual
          > teaching makes a link between
          > God and you. And it provides
          > a guide to help make your
          > journey as easy and direct
          > as possible.
          >
          > Eckankar has an inner and
          > outer living guide. He has
          > made the journey into the
          > heart of God but has returned
          > to help us on our way to Self-
          > Realization and, ultimately,
          > God-Realization. This guide
          > is the Mahanta, the Living
          > ECK Master.
          >
          > The next step on your
          > spiritual journey can be
          > linking up with him through
          > membership in Eckankar.
          > You will then experience
          > the awesome miracle of
          > advanced spiritual growth—
          > a life of joy, meaning, and
          > creativity.
          >
          > Who are the members of Eckankar?
          >
          > Members of Eckankar (ECKists)
          > come from all walks of life.
          > ECKists are homemakers,
          > businesspeople, and retirees.
          > They are professionals, educators,
          > scientists, and farmers. They
          > come from all age-groups, all
          > races and nationalities, and
          > all religious backgrounds.
          >
          > Like most people, ECKists
          > have families, careers, and
          > daily struggles. They live
          > a life of joyful participation
          > in the mainstream of society.
          >
          > ECKists know they're responsible
          > for their own experiences in
          > life. They know tomorrow is
          > the result of today's thoughts,
          > feelings, and actions. They
          > also know that giving love
          > and service to their family
          > and community is one way
          > to increase their understanding
          > of God's love.
          >
          > More about membership in
          > Eckankar:
          >
          > Spiritual Benefits—Reach
          > your highest spiritual potential.
          > See the bigger picture of life.
          > Explore the many facets of
          > divine truth.
          >
          > Discourses—Take the next
          > step on your spiritual journey.
          > Study at home or in classes.
          >
          > Initiations—Climb the stairway
          > to spiritual freedom through
          > the ECK initiations—the direct
          > link between Soul and Divine
          > Spirit.
          >
          > ECK Activities—Worship services,
          > introductory presentations,
          > book discussion classes, seminars,
          > spiritual fellowship.
          >
          > Membership Facts—Individual
          > and family memberships, publications,
          > youth study.
          >
          > ***************************************
          >
          > BTW- I found this info on:
          > http://www.eckankar.org/Membership/index.html
          > listed on a FB site:
          >
          > https://www.facebook.com/EckankarArizona
        • prometheus_973
          My comments on PT s and, now, Klemp s snake- oil remedies: ****************************** *Advanced Spiritual Study as a Next Step on the Road Home to God. ME:
          Message 4 of 9 , Oct 29, 2011
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            My comments on PT's
            and, now, Klemp's snake-
            oil remedies:

            ******************************
            *Advanced Spiritual Study as
            a Next Step on the Road Home
            to God.

            ME: How did this become
            "advanced spiritual study"
            when Twitchell simply
            plagiarized and/or tweaked
            other religious myths, lies,
            and distortions?


            *Experience the miracle of
            spiritual growth. A true spiritual
            teaching makes a link between
            God and you. And it provides
            a guide to help make your
            journey as easy and direct
            as possible.

            ME: "Spiritual growth" via
            EK is an illusion, especially,
            after years and years of thinking,
            doing, and reading the same
            old crap that is merely presented
            in a new wrapper. Christianity
            has more grandiose "miracles"
            attributed to its teachings
            than does Eckankar via Klemp
            the "Mahanta." Klemp is certainly
            no inner "guide" and the Eckankar
            Guidelines and RESA structure
            Do Not make the "journey
            (through the initiations) easy!"
            Just the opposite... it's tedious!



            *Eckankar has an inner and
            outer living guide. He has
            made the journey into the
            heart of God but has returned
            to help us on our way to Self-
            Realization and, ultimately,
            God-Realization. This guide
            is the Mahanta, the Living
            ECK Master.

            ME: ECKists are taught to
            fixate upon the Mahanta
            during the day and to think
            of him at bedtime. It's no
            wonder that they have dreams
            with him appearing. Fixate
            on anything during the day
            and before bedtime and see
            for yourself what you dream
            about! BTW- How has Klemp
            "returned to help us" when
            he was initiated to his position
            in this lifetime and by a person
            he claims was a Black Magician
            (Darwin Gross)? Klemp even
            claimed to have planned the
            transition with Gross in a
            Sound Proof Dark Room where
            Klemp worked. Thus, if Eckankar
            is the Religion of the Light and
            Sound of God why was Light
            and Sound absent in HK's
            work environment and for
            the two meetings planning
            the transition and the Passing
            of the Rod of ECK Power?


            *The next step on your
            spiritual journey can be
            linking up with him through
            membership in Eckankar.
            You will then experience
            the awesome miracle of
            advanced spiritual growth—
            a life of joy, meaning, and
            creativity.

            ME: "Membership" is the key
            word. Klemp doesn't believe
            in "No Chela Left Behind."
            There is no free anything in
            Klemp's little world. Thus,
            ECKists have to maintain an
            outer paid membership or
            risk losing even their "inner
            initiations." Therefore, there
            are strings attached to this
            primary focus of EK membership.
            ECKists usually deny their
            desire to advance in initiations,
            but will tend to imagine
            themselves higher and more
            advanced with "inner" initiations.
            This is one of many Delusions
            that ECKists use in order to
            cope with Klemp's selfish desire
            to keep himself heads higher
            than any other ECKist! It's
            also a Power trip for Klemp
            since, before ECKankar, he
            was never in a position of power
            or of respect.


            *Who are the members of Eckankar?

            ME: Usually most are good people
            (some are narcissists and control
            freaks and have personality issues),
            but most are screwed up in other
            ways that only a religious belief
            of righteousness can instill.


            *Members of Eckankar (ECKists)
            come from all walks of life.
            ECKists are homemakers,
            businesspeople, and retirees.
            They are professionals, educators,
            scientists, and farmers. They
            come from all age-groups, all
            races and nationalities, and
            all religious backgrounds.

            ME: It's true that most ECKists
            simply replaced their old religion
            with this New Age one which
            is just as dogmatic and distorted.
            Most thought it was a "spiritual
            path" and overlooked the religious
            hierarchy with all the rules and
            requirements for advancement
            in consciousness via initiation.
            Actually there wasn't a problem
            with advancement until Klemp
            took over 30 years ago.


            *Like most people, ECKists
            have families, careers, and
            daily struggles. They live
            a life of joyful participation
            in the mainstream of society.

            ME: That's the problem. ECKists,
            who are H.I.s, are supposed to
            be higher in consciousness than
            the 4th Plane "God" that all of
            the other religions look to and
            pray to for guidance. Yet, they
            are just like everyone else and
            many are much more screwed
            up with their arrogance of having
            superiority via of a substituted
            delusional religious belief that
            is the "highest" and most advanced
            in the world. Then, again, this
            is how any member of any religion
            views others outside of their group.


            *ECKists know they're responsible
            for their own experiences in
            life. They know tomorrow is
            the result of today's thoughts,
            feelings, and actions. They
            also know that giving love
            and service to their family
            and community is one way
            to increase their understanding
            of God's love.

            ME: That's a distortion and a lie!
            ECKists know that their Mahanta
            belief takes priority over family.
            There are many ECKists that, for
            one reason or another, don't have
            anything to do with close family
            members and it's because of ECKankar!
            And, ECKists are encouraged to
            give "service" to ECKankar first
            and community second or third.
            Actually, "service" within the
            community is merely another
            missionary method they use
            in order to infiltrate groups,
            spread their teachings, and
            recruit new members. True,
            ECKists are responsible for all
            that befalls them. Klemp takes
            no responsibility for anything
            negative, although, in these
            lower worlds he shouldn't be
            taking credit for the "positive"
            either!


            *More about membership in
            Eckankar:

            ME: Yes, it's an annual paid
            membership that is required
            in order to advance and to
            maintain initiations.



            *Spiritual Benefits—Reach
            your highest spiritual potential.
            See the bigger picture of life.
            Explore the many facets of
            divine truth.

            ME: ECKankar has many
            Eastern ideas that most
            Western minds have not
            explored and this makes
            it seem unique and does
            get one to think and
            ponder new perspectives,
            however, it all needs to be
            digested with a grain of salt.
            In truth, no religious dogma
            can make these claims when
            the results of "spiritual growth"
            rests upon Soul/oneself.


            *Discourses—Take the next
            step on your spiritual journey.
            Study at home or in classes.

            ME: To become more indoctrinated
            and, thereby, to advance one
            must "re-study" the discourses
            (that Twitchell "compiled") in
            a class setting. This is where
            the dogma will be explained
            and clarified so that the student
            will come to know the parameters
            of this belief.


            *Initiations—Climb the stairway
            to spiritual freedom through
            the ECK initiations—the direct
            link between Soul and Divine
            Spirit.

            ME: The "stairway" for 99.99%
            of ECKists stops at the 7th initiation
            and this will take up a lot of ones
            free time and, now, about 35-40
            years. However, there is NO
            "spiritual freedom" as one advances
            up the stairway... just the opposite!
            One becomes more controlled
            by the RESA police and less free
            to think or say and do what you
            might want. All ECKists have been
            instructed Not to gossip, speak
            negatively, and to practice silence
            by going within for answers. The
            problem is always with the chela/
            student and not with the teachings
            or with the "Master." Klemp never
            takes responsibility for his lack
            of leadership or for not advancing
            the consciousness (via initiation)
            of his chelas and H.I.s.



            *ECK Activities—Worship services,
            introductory presentations, book
            discussion classes, seminars,
            spiritual fellowship.

            ME: One has to wonder who or
            what is "worshipped" at the Sunday
            ECK Worship Services (EWS)?
            Basically, it's just an excuse to
            get together like normal people
            (Christians) do on Sunday mornings.
            However, the EWS is more intended
            as a recruitment tool so that ECKists
            can invite family, friends, and
            colleagues to view how friendly
            and "normal" ECKists are. The EWS,
            also, serves as "spiritual fellowship"
            while giving people the opportunity
            to hone their presentation and
            facilitating skills. The intros offer
            the same opportunity to hone skills.
            The discussion classes are a means
            to an end and to become more
            indoctrinated via guidance through
            the dogma.


            *Membership Facts—Individual
            and family memberships, publications,
            youth study.

            ME: It's interesting that there are
            so many "Membership Facts" being
            omitted. It's an annual membership
            donation fee that is required or else
            one will not "advance." A membership
            card will be issued to you with your
            initiation number. A higher number,
            such as 7, is supposed to indicate
            that the EK member is very advanced
            spiritually (on the Inner), but may not
            show/demonstrate this in normal
            (outer) situations. Usually, however,
            ECKists only view other ECKists in
            controlled situations where everyone
            is on their best behaviour.

            Prometheus


            ***************************************

            BTW- I found this info on:
            http://www.eckankar.org/Membership/index.html
            listed on a FB site:

            https://www.facebook.com/EckankarArizona
          • Diana Stanley
            I remember,when Darwin was the eck, that Gail had a seminar about SunaSu, that was a vitamin and protien supplement her an Paul had created, She talked Darwin
            Message 5 of 9 , Oct 30, 2011
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              I remember,when Darwin was the eck, that Gail had a seminar about SunaSu, that was a vitamin and protien supplement her an Paul had created, She talked Darwin into appearing and saying how great it was.
              It was supposed to be for the public. As you can imagine when the eckist heard about it we all showed up!!! By the way I recieved it free every month,so I could keep painting for them i guess. I did'nt take it as it made me sick. This is the first time I have revealed my dark little secret. Now I feel better. Are they still selling it by the way?
              Diana

              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Non" <eckchains@...> wrote:
              >
              > This reminds me of the current bombardment of Mormon TV ads. All of these persons in the ads try to convince you of how wonderful and normal their lives are and the last statement they say is "...and I am Mormon". Ekists will do the same thing at first, a wolf in sheep's clothing, hiding their bizarre beliefs.
              >
              > As far as ekankar curing all that ails you? No, in fact It often seems to me that there is more of a sense of additional suffering when things don't go well, especially health problems. It's kind of like what happened with Steve Jobs. At one point in his life he believed that he didn't need to shower because of his vegan diet and spiritual beliefs even though his coworkers had filed complaints. His beliefs may have opened up a wealth of creativity, but I think he was already a creative guy and very intelligent. This did not make him the most compassionate of persons, from what I understand about his Biography, even though he was supposedly a Zen Buddhist. He was also prone to a similar MAGIKAL thinking that ekists fall for. Steve Jobs tried psychics, some kind of macro vegan diet, acupuncture, etc., when it is quite possible that he was fortunate to have had the type of pancreatic cancer that could have been cured with surgery, but he didn't like the idea of someone cutting his body open.
              >
              > My experience with some ekists though, is that when push comes to shove, they go with what their doctors tell them they should do, especially if their spouse has anything to say about it. It's "as if" they have a split personality. That can't feel very good.
              >
              > It's all just MAGIKAL thinking that ekankar and klemp do anything, but may in fact cause a form of suffering by keeping them in a state of delusional self-contempt and anxiety, as they can't really live up to expectations that are always out of reach. Without true compassion, life is just kind of miserable IMHO. To err is Human and life is just not that easy, even for the richest guy in the cemetery.
              >
              > noneckster ; )
              >
              > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Would anybody like to
              > > comment upon PT's and,
              > > now, Klemp's snake-oil
              > > remedies for all that ail
              > > you?
              > >
              > >
              > > ******************************
              > > Advanced Spiritual Study as a
              > > Next Step on the Road Home
              > > to God
              > >
              > >
              > > Experience the miracle of
              > > spiritual growth A true spiritual
              > > teaching makes a link between
              > > God and you. And it provides
              > > a guide to help make your
              > > journey as easy and direct
              > > as possible.
              > >
              > > Eckankar has an inner and
              > > outer living guide. He has
              > > made the journey into the
              > > heart of God but has returned
              > > to help us on our way to Self-
              > > Realization and, ultimately,
              > > God-Realization. This guide
              > > is the Mahanta, the Living
              > > ECK Master.
              > >
              > > The next step on your
              > > spiritual journey can be
              > > linking up with him through
              > > membership in Eckankar.
              > > You will then experience
              > > the awesome miracle of
              > > advanced spiritual growth—
              > > a life of joy, meaning, and
              > > creativity.
              > >
              > > Who are the members of Eckankar?
              > >
              > > Members of Eckankar (ECKists)
              > > come from all walks of life.
              > > ECKists are homemakers,
              > > businesspeople, and retirees.
              > > They are professionals, educators,
              > > scientists, and farmers. They
              > > come from all age-groups, a
              > > ll races and nationalities, and
              > > all religious backgrounds.
              > >
              > > Like most people, ECKists
              > > have families, careers, and
              > > daily struggles. They live
              > > a life of joyful participation
              > > in the mainstream of society.
              > >
              > > ECKists know they're responsible
              > > for their own experiences in
              > > life. They know tomorrow is
              > > the result of today's thoughts,
              > > feelings, and actions. They
              > > also know that giving love
              > > and service to their family
              > > and community is one way
              > > to increase their understanding
              > > of God's love.
              > >
              > > More about membership in
              > > Eckankar:
              > >
              > > Spiritual Benefits—Reach
              > > your highest spiritual potential.
              > > See the bigger picture of life.
              > > Explore the many facets of
              > > divine truth.
              > >
              > > Discourses—Take the next
              > > step on your spiritual journey.
              > > Study at home or in classes.
              > >
              > > Initiations—Climb the stairway
              > > to spiritual freedom through
              > > the ECK initiations—the direct
              > > link between Soul and Divine
              > > Spirit.
              > >
              > > ECK Activities—Worship services,
              > > introductory presentations,
              > > book discussion classes, seminars,
              > > spiritual fellowship.
              > >
              > > Membership Facts—Individual
              > > and family memberships, publications,
              > > youth study.
              > >
              > > ***************************************
              > >
              > > BTW- I found this info on:
              > > http://www.eckankar.org/Membership/index.html
              > > listed on a FB site:
              > >
              > > https://www.facebook.com/EckankarArizona
              > >
              >
            • Diana Stanley
              I rmemeber a good friend of mine had a brother with cancer. Darwin told her if she would sleep with him he would cure him. She refused then Darwin said I
              Message 6 of 9 , Oct 30, 2011
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                I rmemeber a good friend of mine had a brother with cancer. Darwin told her if she would sleep with him he would cure him. She refused then Darwin said "I couldn't cure him anyway! A brief moment of honesty!
                Harold would never do that, I don't think he is into sex. Hope the site is R rated!
                Diana, who should be blushing.

                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hello Non and All,
                > Yes, it seems Klemp
                > is mimicking the
                > Mormon ads kinda
                > like the 100th monkey!
                >
                > Eckankar, Mormonism
                > and Scientology have
                > a few similarities...
                > except for the number
                > of members thanks to
                > Klemp... that reclusive
                > and impotent little weasel
                > of a Mahanta/God/Inner
                > Master.
                >
                > Inner communication
                > never actually worked,
                > except, in one's mind
                > via dreams. Proof? Why
                > aren't there "Inner EK
                > Seminars" where H.I.s
                > are at least attending
                > via "lucid dreaming"...
                > which is still a 4th Mental
                > Plane function! Or, how
                > about the "Direct Projection"
                > method of Soul Travel?
                >
                > There's no "next step"
                > with Eckankar... only
                > old promises that were
                > never realized via objective
                > standards. EK "stories"
                > need "outer written"
                > approval not "inner"
                > approval.
                >
                > There is no "Inner"
                > Eckankar! But, Eckists
                > will continue to buy into
                > the lie because it's all
                > they have and it feels
                > good... like an old pair
                > of shoes that you're still
                > attached to and won't
                > throw out. Klemp still
                > has ECKists focusing
                > upon the 6th Astral Chakra,
                > the Tisra Til (Third Eye),
                > versus the 7th Crown
                > Chakra when HUing.
                > What's with that after
                > 30 years with Klemp?
                >
                > As for Steve Jobs...
                > yes, he regretted doing
                > the New Age Homeopathic
                > thing and waiting too
                > long for traditional treatment.
                > It reminded me of Klemp's
                > advice to his oldest brother,
                > Duane, who died of cancer
                > in the mid 1980's. Klemp
                > told Duane that he should
                > go to Mexico for Laetrile
                > treatments.
                >
                > BTW- How can Klemp
                > be the real Mahanta when
                > Eckankar's Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad,
                > Book One states that the
                > Mahanta has a Virgin Birth
                > and Klemp had an older
                > brother? Check the index
                > on "Mahanta, birth of"
                > for the page number.
                >
                > True, many Eckists do
                > go to traditional doctors,
                > but many don't. These
                > will emulate Klemp in
                > everything they do. Look
                > at those with EMR/EMF
                > problems just like Klemp
                > has! ECKies think HK is
                > "all knowing," and according
                > to the PR he (the Mahanta)
                > should be, but every
                > now-and-then he'll make
                > a Catch-22 disclaimer
                > by saying he's "not perfect"
                > which is odd since the
                > "GOD" that people of
                > other religions worship
                > is perfect! Although, Klemp
                > claims this God is merely
                > a 2nd or 4th Plane God
                > (Kal, i.e. Satan or Devil)
                > while he is of the 14th
                > Plane of Consciousness.
                > [See page 385 of Klemp's
                > "Autobiography of a Modern
                > Prophet"]
                >
                > This is just one more little
                > tid-bit of info that ECKists
                > tend to Not share, especially,
                > at introductory talks or when
                > rubbing shoulders (infiltrating)
                > with those from other "spiritual"
                > paths.
                >
                > Prometheus
                >
                >
                > "Non" eckchains wrote:
                >
                > This reminds me of the
                > current bombardment
                > of Mormon TV ads. All
                > of these persons in the
                > ads try to convince you
                > of how wonderful and
                > normal their lives are
                > and the last statement
                > they say is "...and I am
                > Mormon". Ekists will do
                > the same thing at first,
                > a wolf in sheep's clothing,
                > hiding their bizarre beliefs.
                >
                > As far as ekankar curing
                > all that ails you? No, in
                > fact It often seems to me
                > that there is more of a
                > sense of additional suffering
                > when things don't go well,
                > especially health problems.
                > It's kind of like what happened
                > with Steve Jobs. At one point
                > in his life he believed that
                > he didn't need to shower
                > because of his vegan diet
                > and spiritual beliefs even
                > though his coworkers had
                > filed complaints.
                >
                > His beliefs may have opened
                > up a wealth of creativity, but
                > I think he was already a creative
                > guy and very intelligent. This
                > did not make him the most
                > compassionate of persons,
                > from what I understand about
                > his Biography, even though
                > he was supposedly a Zen
                > Buddhist. He was also prone
                > to a similar MAGIKAL thinking
                > that ekists fall for.
                >
                > Steve Jobs tried psychics,
                > some kind of macro vegan
                > diet, acupuncture, etc., when
                > it is quite possible that he
                > was fortunate to have had
                > the type of pancreatic cancer
                > that could have been cured
                > with surgery, but he didn't
                > like the idea of someone
                > cutting his body open.
                >
                > My experience with some
                > ekists though, is that when
                > push comes to shove, they
                > go with what their doctors
                > tell them they should do,
                > especially if their spouse
                > has anything to say about it.
                > It's "as if" they have a split
                > personality. That can't feel
                > very good.
                >
                > It's all just MAGIKAL thinking
                > that ekankar and klemp do
                > anything, but may in fact
                > cause a form of suffering
                > by keeping them in a state
                > of delusional self-contempt
                > and anxiety, as they can't
                > really live up to expectations
                > that are always out of reach.
                > Without true compassion,
                > life is just kind of miserable
                > IMHO. To err is Human and
                > life is just not that easy, even
                > for the richest guy in the
                > cemetery.
                >
                > noneckster ; )
                >
                > prometheus wrote:
                > >
                > > Would anybody like to
                > > comment upon PT's and,
                > > now, Klemp's snake-oil
                > > remedies for all that ail
                > > you?
                > >
                > >
                > > ******************************
                > > Advanced Spiritual Study as a
                > > Next Step on the Road Home
                > > to God
                > >
                > >
                > > Experience the miracle of
                > > spiritual growth A true spiritual
                > > teaching makes a link between
                > > God and you. And it provides
                > > a guide to help make your
                > > journey as easy and direct
                > > as possible.
                > >
                > > Eckankar has an inner and
                > > outer living guide. He has
                > > made the journey into the
                > > heart of God but has returned
                > > to help us on our way to Self-
                > > Realization and, ultimately,
                > > God-Realization. This guide
                > > is the Mahanta, the Living
                > > ECK Master.
                > >
                > > The next step on your
                > > spiritual journey can be
                > > linking up with him through
                > > membership in Eckankar.
                > > You will then experience
                > > the awesome miracle of
                > > advanced spiritual growth—
                > > a life of joy, meaning, and
                > > creativity.
                > >
                > > Who are the members of Eckankar?
                > >
                > > Members of Eckankar (ECKists)
                > > come from all walks of life.
                > > ECKists are homemakers,
                > > businesspeople, and retirees.
                > > They are professionals, educators,
                > > scientists, and farmers. They
                > > come from all age-groups, all
                > > races and nationalities, and
                > > all religious backgrounds.
                > >
                > > Like most people, ECKists
                > > have families, careers, and
                > > daily struggles. They live
                > > a life of joyful participation
                > > in the mainstream of society.
                > >
                > > ECKists know they're responsible
                > > for their own experiences in
                > > life. They know tomorrow is
                > > the result of today's thoughts,
                > > feelings, and actions. They
                > > also know that giving love
                > > and service to their family
                > > and community is one way
                > > to increase their understanding
                > > of God's love.
                > >
                > > More about membership in
                > > Eckankar:
                > >
                > > Spiritual Benefits—Reach
                > > your highest spiritual potential.
                > > See the bigger picture of life.
                > > Explore the many facets of
                > > divine truth.
                > >
                > > Discourses—Take the next
                > > step on your spiritual journey.
                > > Study at home or in classes.
                > >
                > > Initiations—Climb the stairway
                > > to spiritual freedom through
                > > the ECK initiations—the direct
                > > link between Soul and Divine
                > > Spirit.
                > >
                > > ECK Activities—Worship services,
                > > introductory presentations,
                > > book discussion classes, seminars,
                > > spiritual fellowship.
                > >
                > > Membership Facts—Individual
                > > and family memberships, publications,
                > > youth study.
                > >
                > > ***************************************
                > >
                > > BTW- I found this info on:
                > > http://www.eckankar.org/Membership/index.html
                > > listed on a FB site:
                > >
                > > https://www.facebook.com/EckankarArizona
                >
              • Diana Stanley
                I don t believe in spiritual growth! we are conected to the universe as much as when we were born. Enlightenment is when we are councious that everything is
                Message 7 of 9 , Oct 30, 2011
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                  I don't believe in spiritual growth! we are conected to the universe as much as when we were born. Enlightenment is when we are councious that everything is everything.We are not sepperate from all that is. A truly enlightend person would not even realize it as it is the natural state of all that is. I spent many years after eck wondering How? and Why?. I came to the conclusion Just because!
                  Diana


                  --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > My comments on PT's
                  > and, now, Klemp's snake-
                  > oil remedies:
                  >
                  > ******************************
                  > *Advanced Spiritual Study as
                  > a Next Step on the Road Home
                  > to God.
                  >
                  > ME: How did this become
                  > "advanced spiritual study"
                  > when Twitchell simply
                  > plagiarized and/or tweaked
                  > other religious myths, lies,
                  > and distortions?
                  >
                  >
                  > *Experience the miracle of
                  > spiritual growth. A true spiritual
                  > teaching makes a link between
                  > God and you. And it provides
                  > a guide to help make your
                  > journey as easy and direct
                  > as possible.
                  >
                  > ME: "Spiritual growth" via
                  > EK is an illusion, especially,
                  > after years and years of thinking,
                  > doing, and reading the same
                  > old crap that is merely presented
                  > in a new wrapper. Christianity
                  > has more grandiose "miracles"
                  > attributed to its teachings
                  > than does Eckankar via Klemp
                  > the "Mahanta." Klemp is certainly
                  > no inner "guide" and the Eckankar
                  > Guidelines and RESA structure
                  > Do Not make the "journey
                  > (through the initiations) easy!"
                  > Just the opposite... it's tedious!
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > *Eckankar has an inner and
                  > outer living guide. He has
                  > made the journey into the
                  > heart of God but has returned
                  > to help us on our way to Self-
                  > Realization and, ultimately,
                  > God-Realization. This guide
                  > is the Mahanta, the Living
                  > ECK Master.
                  >
                  > ME: ECKists are taught to
                  > fixate upon the Mahanta
                  > during the day and to think
                  > of him at bedtime. It's no
                  > wonder that they have dreams
                  > with him appearing. Fixate
                  > on anything during the day
                  > and before bedtime and see
                  > for yourself what you dream
                  > about! BTW- How has Klemp
                  > "returned to help us" when
                  > he was initiated to his position
                  > in this lifetime and by a person
                  > he claims was a Black Magician
                  > (Darwin Gross)? Klemp even
                  > claimed to have planned the
                  > transition with Gross in a
                  > Sound Proof Dark Room where
                  > Klemp worked. Thus, if Eckankar
                  > is the Religion of the Light and
                  > Sound of God why was Light
                  > and Sound absent in HK's
                  > work environment and for
                  > the two meetings planning
                  > the transition and the Passing
                  > of the Rod of ECK Power?
                  >
                  >
                  > *The next step on your
                  > spiritual journey can be
                  > linking up with him through
                  > membership in Eckankar.
                  > You will then experience
                  > the awesome miracle of
                  > advanced spiritual growth—
                  > a life of joy, meaning, and
                  > creativity.
                  >
                  > ME: "Membership" is the key
                  > word. Klemp doesn't believe
                  > in "No Chela Left Behind."
                  > There is no free anything in
                  > Klemp's little world. Thus,
                  > ECKists have to maintain an
                  > outer paid membership or
                  > risk losing even their "inner
                  > initiations." Therefore, there
                  > are strings attached to this
                  > primary focus of EK membership.
                  > ECKists usually deny their
                  > desire to advance in initiations,
                  > but will tend to imagine
                  > themselves higher and more
                  > advanced with "inner" initiations.
                  > This is one of many Delusions
                  > that ECKists use in order to
                  > cope with Klemp's selfish desire
                  > to keep himself heads higher
                  > than any other ECKist! It's
                  > also a Power trip for Klemp
                  > since, before ECKankar, he
                  > was never in a position of power
                  > or of respect.
                  >
                  >
                  > *Who are the members of Eckankar?
                  >
                  > ME: Usually most are good people
                  > (some are narcissists and control
                  > freaks and have personality issues),
                  > but most are screwed up in other
                  > ways that only a religious belief
                  > of righteousness can instill.
                  >
                  >
                  > *Members of Eckankar (ECKists)
                  > come from all walks of life.
                  > ECKists are homemakers,
                  > businesspeople, and retirees.
                  > They are professionals, educators,
                  > scientists, and farmers. They
                  > come from all age-groups, all
                  > races and nationalities, and
                  > all religious backgrounds.
                  >
                  > ME: It's true that most ECKists
                  > simply replaced their old religion
                  > with this New Age one which
                  > is just as dogmatic and distorted.
                  > Most thought it was a "spiritual
                  > path" and overlooked the religious
                  > hierarchy with all the rules and
                  > requirements for advancement
                  > in consciousness via initiation.
                  > Actually there wasn't a problem
                  > with advancement until Klemp
                  > took over 30 years ago.
                  >
                  >
                  > *Like most people, ECKists
                  > have families, careers, and
                  > daily struggles. They live
                  > a life of joyful participation
                  > in the mainstream of society.
                  >
                  > ME: That's the problem. ECKists,
                  > who are H.I.s, are supposed to
                  > be higher in consciousness than
                  > the 4th Plane "God" that all of
                  > the other religions look to and
                  > pray to for guidance. Yet, they
                  > are just like everyone else and
                  > many are much more screwed
                  > up with their arrogance of having
                  > superiority via of a substituted
                  > delusional religious belief that
                  > is the "highest" and most advanced
                  > in the world. Then, again, this
                  > is how any member of any religion
                  > views others outside of their group.
                  >
                  >
                  > *ECKists know they're responsible
                  > for their own experiences in
                  > life. They know tomorrow is
                  > the result of today's thoughts,
                  > feelings, and actions. They
                  > also know that giving love
                  > and service to their family
                  > and community is one way
                  > to increase their understanding
                  > of God's love.
                  >
                  > ME: That's a distortion and a lie!
                  > ECKists know that their Mahanta
                  > belief takes priority over family.
                  > There are many ECKists that, for
                  > one reason or another, don't have
                  > anything to do with close family
                  > members and it's because of ECKankar!
                  > And, ECKists are encouraged to
                  > give "service" to ECKankar first
                  > and community second or third.
                  > Actually, "service" within the
                  > community is merely another
                  > missionary method they use
                  > in order to infiltrate groups,
                  > spread their teachings, and
                  > recruit new members. True,
                  > ECKists are responsible for all
                  > that befalls them. Klemp takes
                  > no responsibility for anything
                  > negative, although, in these
                  > lower worlds he shouldn't be
                  > taking credit for the "positive"
                  > either!
                  >
                  >
                  > *More about membership in
                  > Eckankar:
                  >
                  > ME: Yes, it's an annual paid
                  > membership that is required
                  > in order to advance and to
                  > maintain initiations.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > *Spiritual Benefits—Reach
                  > your highest spiritual potential.
                  > See the bigger picture of life.
                  > Explore the many facets of
                  > divine truth.
                  >
                  > ME: ECKankar has many
                  > Eastern ideas that most
                  > Western minds have not
                  > explored and this makes
                  > it seem unique and does
                  > get one to think and
                  > ponder new perspectives,
                  > however, it all needs to be
                  > digested with a grain of salt.
                  > In truth, no religious dogma
                  > can make these claims when
                  > the results of "spiritual growth"
                  > rests upon Soul/oneself.
                  >
                  >
                  > *Discourses—Take the next
                  > step on your spiritual journey.
                  > Study at home or in classes.
                  >
                  > ME: To become more indoctrinated
                  > and, thereby, to advance one
                  > must "re-study" the discourses
                  > (that Twitchell "compiled") in
                  > a class setting. This is where
                  > the dogma will be explained
                  > and clarified so that the student
                  > will come to know the parameters
                  > of this belief.
                  >
                  >
                  > *Initiations—Climb the stairway
                  > to spiritual freedom through
                  > the ECK initiations—the direct
                  > link between Soul and Divine
                  > Spirit.
                  >
                  > ME: The "stairway" for 99.99%
                  > of ECKists stops at the 7th initiation
                  > and this will take up a lot of ones
                  > free time and, now, about 35-40
                  > years. However, there is NO
                  > "spiritual freedom" as one advances
                  > up the stairway... just the opposite!
                  > One becomes more controlled
                  > by the RESA police and less free
                  > to think or say and do what you
                  > might want. All ECKists have been
                  > instructed Not to gossip, speak
                  > negatively, and to practice silence
                  > by going within for answers. The
                  > problem is always with the chela/
                  > student and not with the teachings
                  > or with the "Master." Klemp never
                  > takes responsibility for his lack
                  > of leadership or for not advancing
                  > the consciousness (via initiation)
                  > of his chelas and H.I.s.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > *ECK Activities—Worship services,
                  > introductory presentations, book
                  > discussion classes, seminars,
                  > spiritual fellowship.
                  >
                  > ME: One has to wonder who or
                  > what is "worshipped" at the Sunday
                  > ECK Worship Services (EWS)?
                  > Basically, it's just an excuse to
                  > get together like normal people
                  > (Christians) do on Sunday mornings.
                  > However, the EWS is more intended
                  > as a recruitment tool so that ECKists
                  > can invite family, friends, and
                  > colleagues to view how friendly
                  > and "normal" ECKists are. The EWS,
                  > also, serves as "spiritual fellowship"
                  > while giving people the opportunity
                  > to hone their presentation and
                  > facilitating skills. The intros offer
                  > the same opportunity to hone skills.
                  > The discussion classes are a means
                  > to an end and to become more
                  > indoctrinated via guidance through
                  > the dogma.
                  >
                  >
                  > *Membership Facts—Individual
                  > and family memberships, publications,
                  > youth study.
                  >
                  > ME: It's interesting that there are
                  > so many "Membership Facts" being
                  > omitted. It's an annual membership
                  > donation fee that is required or else
                  > one will not "advance." A membership
                  > card will be issued to you with your
                  > initiation number. A higher number,
                  > such as 7, is supposed to indicate
                  > that the EK member is very advanced
                  > spiritually (on the Inner), but may not
                  > show/demonstrate this in normal
                  > (outer) situations. Usually, however,
                  > ECKists only view other ECKists in
                  > controlled situations where everyone
                  > is on their best behaviour.
                  >
                  > Prometheus
                  >
                  >
                  > ***************************************
                  >
                  > BTW- I found this info on:
                  > http://www.eckankar.org/Membership/index.html
                  > listed on a FB site:
                  >
                  > https://www.facebook.com/EckankarArizona
                  >
                • prometheus_973
                  Hello Diana and All, Gail was as much the opportunist and scammer as Twitchell. Twit had his thing (Eckankar) and Gail wanted hers (Sunasu). However, I
                  Message 8 of 9 , Oct 30, 2011
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                    Hello Diana and All,
                    Gail was as much the
                    opportunist and scammer
                    as Twitchell. Twit had
                    his thing (Eckankar) and
                    Gail wanted hers (Sunasu).

                    However, I remember
                    reading where Paul told
                    ECKists not to be selling
                    Sunasu at ECK functions,
                    but that changed when
                    Darwin took over. Klemp
                    had to reenforce PT's rule
                    and expand it to include
                    all items because ECKists
                    tend to sell their New Age
                    products to other ECKists
                    and to even rely upon this
                    narrow market in order
                    to be successful...........
                    Klemp, later, told these
                    EK entrepreneurs that if
                    this was the case, then,
                    their products probably
                    weren't all that good to
                    begin with.

                    The irony:
                    This is exactly like it is
                    when selling Eckankar!
                    It's not that good of a
                    product and, therefore,
                    it has a narrow market
                    and a small following.

                    I believe that Gail sold
                    her Sunasu Company to
                    her sister, who lives in
                    California, and that it is
                    still sold to some extent
                    but is not a very big seller
                    nor is it distributed too
                    widely.

                    Prometheus

                    dianastanley wrote:
                    I remember, when Darwin
                    was the eck, that Gail had
                    a seminar about SunaSu,
                    that was a vitamin and
                    protien supplement her
                    an Paul had created, She
                    talked Darwin into appearing
                    and saying how great it
                    was. It was supposed to
                    be for the public. As you
                    can imagine when the
                    eckist heard about it we
                    all showed up!!! By the
                    way I recieved it free
                    every month, so I could
                    keep painting for them
                    i guess. I did'nt take it
                    as it made me sick. This
                    is the first time I have
                    revealed my dark little
                    secret. Now I feel better.
                    Are they still selling it
                    by the way?
                    Diana

                    "Non" <eckchains@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > This reminds me of the current bombardment of Mormon TV ads. All of these
                    persons in the ads try to convince you of how wonderful and normal their lives
                    are and the last statement they say is "...and I am Mormon". Ekists will do the
                    same thing at first, a wolf in sheep's clothing, hiding their bizarre beliefs.
                    >
                    > As far as ekankar curing all that ails you? No, in fact It often seems to me
                    that there is more of a sense of additional suffering when things don't go well,
                    especially health problems. It's kind of like what happened with Steve Jobs. At
                    one point in his life he believed that he didn't need to shower because of his
                    vegan diet and spiritual beliefs even though his coworkers had filed complaints.
                    His beliefs may have opened up a wealth of creativity, but I think he was
                    already a creative guy and very intelligent. This did not make him the most
                    compassionate of persons, from what I understand about his Biography, even
                    though he was supposedly a Zen Buddhist. He was also prone to a similar MAGIKAL
                    thinking that ekists fall for. Steve Jobs tried psychics, some kind of macro
                    vegan diet, acupuncture, etc., when it is quite possible that he was fortunate
                    to have had the type of pancreatic cancer that could have been cured with
                    surgery, but he didn't like the idea of someone cutting his body open.
                    >
                    > My experience with some ekists though, is that when push comes to shove, they
                    go with what their doctors tell them they should do, especially if their spouse
                    has anything to say about it. It's "as if" they have a split personality. That
                    can't feel very good.
                    >
                    > It's all just MAGIKAL thinking that ekankar and klemp do anything, but may in
                    fact cause a form of suffering by keeping them in a state of delusional
                    self-contempt and anxiety, as they can't really live up to expectations that are
                    always out of reach. Without true compassion, life is just kind of miserable
                    IMHO. To err is Human and life is just not that easy, even for the richest guy
                    in the cemetery.
                    >
                    > noneckster ; )
                    >
                    > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                    <prometheus_973@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Would anybody like to
                    > > comment upon PT's and,
                    > > now, Klemp's snake-oil
                    > > remedies for all that ail
                    > > you?
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ******************************
                    > > Advanced Spiritual Study as a
                    > > Next Step on the Road Home
                    > > to God
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Experience the miracle of
                    > > spiritual growth A true spiritual
                    > > teaching makes a link between
                    > > God and you. And it provides
                    > > a guide to help make your
                    > > journey as easy and direct
                    > > as possible.
                    > >
                    > > Eckankar has an inner and
                    > > outer living guide. He has
                    > > made the journey into the
                    > > heart of God but has returned
                    > > to help us on our way to Self-
                    > > Realization and, ultimately,
                    > > God-Realization. This guide
                    > > is the Mahanta, the Living
                    > > ECK Master.
                    > >
                    > > The next step on your
                    > > spiritual journey can be
                    > > linking up with him through
                    > > membership in Eckankar.
                    > > You will then experience
                    > > the awesome miracle of
                    > > advanced spiritual growth—
                    > > a life of joy, meaning, and
                    > > creativity.
                    > >
                    > > Who are the members of Eckankar?
                    > >
                    > > Members of Eckankar (ECKists)
                    > > come from all walks of life.
                    > > ECKists are homemakers,
                    > > businesspeople, and retirees.
                    > > They are professionals, educators,
                    > > scientists, and farmers. They
                    > > come from all age-groups, a
                    > > ll races and nationalities, and
                    > > all religious backgrounds.
                    > >
                    > > Like most people, ECKists
                    > > have families, careers, and
                    > > daily struggles. They live
                    > > a life of joyful participation
                    > > in the mainstream of society.
                    > >
                    > > ECKists know they're responsible
                    > > for their own experiences in
                    > > life. They know tomorrow is
                    > > the result of today's thoughts,
                    > > feelings, and actions. They
                    > > also know that giving love
                    > > and service to their family
                    > > and community is one way
                    > > to increase their understanding
                    > > of God's love.
                    > >
                    > > More about membership in
                    > > Eckankar:
                    > >
                    > > Spiritual Benefits—Reach
                    > > your highest spiritual potential.
                    > > See the bigger picture of life.
                    > > Explore the many facets of
                    > > divine truth.
                    > >
                    > > Discourses—Take the next
                    > > step on your spiritual journey.
                    > > Study at home or in classes.
                    > >
                    > > Initiations—Climb the stairway
                    > > to spiritual freedom through
                    > > the ECK initiations—the direct
                    > > link between Soul and Divine
                    > > Spirit.
                    > >
                    > > ECK Activities—Worship services,
                    > > introductory presentations,
                    > > book discussion classes, seminars,
                    > > spiritual fellowship.
                    > >
                    > > Membership Facts—Individual
                    > > and family memberships, publications,
                    > > youth study.
                    > >
                    > > ***************************************
                    > >
                    > > BTW- I found this info on:
                    > > http://www.eckankar.org/Membership/index.html
                    > > listed on a FB site:
                    > >
                    > > https://www.facebook.com/EckankarArizona
                  • Diana Stanley
                    I remember I had a friend in nutrition and investigated the ingreademts of sunasu and said it was a bad formular and many people would nt be able to tolorate
                    Message 9 of 9 , Oct 30, 2011
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                      I remember I had a friend in nutrition and investigated the ingreademts of sunasu and said it was a bad formular and many people would'nt be able to tolorate it. Remember "Herbs the magid healers" by Paul. I think they were trying to ty it into sunasu.
                      Diana
                      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hello Diana and All,
                      > Gail was as much the
                      > opportunist and scammer
                      > as Twitchell. Twit had
                      > his thing (Eckankar) and
                      > Gail wanted hers (Sunasu).
                      >
                      > However, I remember
                      > reading where Paul told
                      > ECKists not to be selling
                      > Sunasu at ECK functions,
                      > but that changed when
                      > Darwin took over. Klemp
                      > had to reenforce PT's rule
                      > and expand it to include
                      > all items because ECKists
                      > tend to sell their New Age
                      > products to other ECKists
                      > and to even rely upon this
                      > narrow market in order
                      > to be successful...........
                      > Klemp, later, told these
                      > EK entrepreneurs that if
                      > this was the case, then,
                      > their products probably
                      > weren't all that good to
                      > begin with.
                      >
                      > The irony:
                      > This is exactly like it is
                      > when selling Eckankar!
                      > It's not that good of a
                      > product and, therefore,
                      > it has a narrow market
                      > and a small following.
                      >
                      > I believe that Gail sold
                      > her Sunasu Company to
                      > her sister, who lives in
                      > California, and that it is
                      > still sold to some extent
                      > but is not a very big seller
                      > nor is it distributed too
                      > widely.
                      >
                      > Prometheus
                      >
                      > dianastanley wrote:
                      > I remember, when Darwin
                      > was the eck, that Gail had
                      > a seminar about SunaSu,
                      > that was a vitamin and
                      > protien supplement her
                      > an Paul had created, She
                      > talked Darwin into appearing
                      > and saying how great it
                      > was. It was supposed to
                      > be for the public. As you
                      > can imagine when the
                      > eckist heard about it we
                      > all showed up!!! By the
                      > way I recieved it free
                      > every month, so I could
                      > keep painting for them
                      > i guess. I did'nt take it
                      > as it made me sick. This
                      > is the first time I have
                      > revealed my dark little
                      > secret. Now I feel better.
                      > Are they still selling it
                      > by the way?
                      > Diana
                      >
                      > "Non" <eckchains@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > This reminds me of the current bombardment of Mormon TV ads. All of these
                      > persons in the ads try to convince you of how wonderful and normal their lives
                      > are and the last statement they say is "...and I am Mormon". Ekists will do the
                      > same thing at first, a wolf in sheep's clothing, hiding their bizarre beliefs.
                      > >
                      > > As far as ekankar curing all that ails you? No, in fact It often seems to me
                      > that there is more of a sense of additional suffering when things don't go well,
                      > especially health problems. It's kind of like what happened with Steve Jobs. At
                      > one point in his life he believed that he didn't need to shower because of his
                      > vegan diet and spiritual beliefs even though his coworkers had filed complaints.
                      > His beliefs may have opened up a wealth of creativity, but I think he was
                      > already a creative guy and very intelligent. This did not make him the most
                      > compassionate of persons, from what I understand about his Biography, even
                      > though he was supposedly a Zen Buddhist. He was also prone to a similar MAGIKAL
                      > thinking that ekists fall for. Steve Jobs tried psychics, some kind of macro
                      > vegan diet, acupuncture, etc., when it is quite possible that he was fortunate
                      > to have had the type of pancreatic cancer that could have been cured with
                      > surgery, but he didn't like the idea of someone cutting his body open.
                      > >
                      > > My experience with some ekists though, is that when push comes to shove, they
                      > go with what their doctors tell them they should do, especially if their spouse
                      > has anything to say about it. It's "as if" they have a split personality. That
                      > can't feel very good.
                      > >
                      > > It's all just MAGIKAL thinking that ekankar and klemp do anything, but may in
                      > fact cause a form of suffering by keeping them in a state of delusional
                      > self-contempt and anxiety, as they can't really live up to expectations that are
                      > always out of reach. Without true compassion, life is just kind of miserable
                      > IMHO. To err is Human and life is just not that easy, even for the richest guy
                      > in the cemetery.
                      > >
                      > > noneckster ; )
                      > >
                      > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                      > <prometheus_973@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Would anybody like to
                      > > > comment upon PT's and,
                      > > > now, Klemp's snake-oil
                      > > > remedies for all that ail
                      > > > you?
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > ******************************
                      > > > Advanced Spiritual Study as a
                      > > > Next Step on the Road Home
                      > > > to God
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Experience the miracle of
                      > > > spiritual growth A true spiritual
                      > > > teaching makes a link between
                      > > > God and you. And it provides
                      > > > a guide to help make your
                      > > > journey as easy and direct
                      > > > as possible.
                      > > >
                      > > > Eckankar has an inner and
                      > > > outer living guide. He has
                      > > > made the journey into the
                      > > > heart of God but has returned
                      > > > to help us on our way to Self-
                      > > > Realization and, ultimately,
                      > > > God-Realization. This guide
                      > > > is the Mahanta, the Living
                      > > > ECK Master.
                      > > >
                      > > > The next step on your
                      > > > spiritual journey can be
                      > > > linking up with him through
                      > > > membership in Eckankar.
                      > > > You will then experience
                      > > > the awesome miracle of
                      > > > advanced spiritual growth—
                      > > > a life of joy, meaning, and
                      > > > creativity.
                      > > >
                      > > > Who are the members of Eckankar?
                      > > >
                      > > > Members of Eckankar (ECKists)
                      > > > come from all walks of life.
                      > > > ECKists are homemakers,
                      > > > businesspeople, and retirees.
                      > > > They are professionals, educators,
                      > > > scientists, and farmers. They
                      > > > come from all age-groups, a
                      > > > ll races and nationalities, and
                      > > > all religious backgrounds.
                      > > >
                      > > > Like most people, ECKists
                      > > > have families, careers, and
                      > > > daily struggles. They live
                      > > > a life of joyful participation
                      > > > in the mainstream of society.
                      > > >
                      > > > ECKists know they're responsible
                      > > > for their own experiences in
                      > > > life. They know tomorrow is
                      > > > the result of today's thoughts,
                      > > > feelings, and actions. They
                      > > > also know that giving love
                      > > > and service to their family
                      > > > and community is one way
                      > > > to increase their understanding
                      > > > of God's love.
                      > > >
                      > > > More about membership in
                      > > > Eckankar:
                      > > >
                      > > > Spiritual Benefits—Reach
                      > > > your highest spiritual potential.
                      > > > See the bigger picture of life.
                      > > > Explore the many facets of
                      > > > divine truth.
                      > > >
                      > > > Discourses—Take the next
                      > > > step on your spiritual journey.
                      > > > Study at home or in classes.
                      > > >
                      > > > Initiations—Climb the stairway
                      > > > to spiritual freedom through
                      > > > the ECK initiations—the direct
                      > > > link between Soul and Divine
                      > > > Spirit.
                      > > >
                      > > > ECK Activities—Worship services,
                      > > > introductory presentations,
                      > > > book discussion classes, seminars,
                      > > > spiritual fellowship.
                      > > >
                      > > > Membership Facts—Individual
                      > > > and family memberships, publications,
                      > > > youth study.
                      > > >
                      > > > ***************************************
                      > > >
                      > > > BTW- I found this info on:
                      > > > http://www.eckankar.org/Membership/index.html
                      > > > listed on a FB site:
                      > > >
                      > > > https://www.facebook.com/EckankarArizona
                      >
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