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Re: Why Don't ECKists Mention Initiation Wait Time?

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello Etznab and All, Sometimes normal is elusive and the exception. First, I can deduce that you are not an architect, chiropractor, or an attorney... if so
    Message 1 of 10 , Oct 20, 2011
      Hello Etznab and All,
      Sometimes "normal" is
      elusive and the exception.
      First, I can deduce that
      you are not an architect,
      chiropractor, or an attorney...
      if so you would have gotten
      your 5th by now.

      Therefore, I have basically
      two lines of thought (or a combo
      of both) for you not to have
      received the 5th with almost
      25 years of seamless membership.

      1) Do you volunteer often
      and/or hold a local position?
      Have you taken Arahata training
      and other leadership training
      classes? Have you taught Satsang
      classes? Have you helped with
      intros and workshops and/or
      participated in Regional Seminars?
      With that many years the answer
      needs to be YES to all of these
      questions!

      2) Do you have a good relationship
      with your RESA and an on-going
      regular communication with him/her
      and with local H.I.s? Have you watched
      what you have said to other ECKists
      (bite your tongue) or have you said
      something of a controversial nature?
      Have you said something with a pro
      psychic bent, or been too fixated
      upon EK "history," details, and facts?
      In other words, have you been a good
      soldier and followed orders, rules and
      guidelines without question and talked
      incessantly about the Mahanta's love?

      25 years is a long time not to reach
      the 5th. However, I knew of an ECKist
      who was a 4th for over 20 years before
      finally getting her 5th, but that was
      only due to a change in RESA!

      Prometheus



      etznab wrote:

      I've been in Eckankar almost
      25 years.

      My membership has never lapsed.

      My last outer initiation (2000)
      was the 4th. I don't know if this
      is normal, or the exception.


      Prometheus wrote:
      Here're some comments from
      a H.I. who joined in 1972. I don't
      know if he copied it from a brochure
      or if it's his own original words...
      you decide:

      "Eckankar: An individual's spiritual
      path emphasizing Soul's own
      natural and direct inner connections
      to the twin aspects of Holy Spirit
      (aka the Eck), the Inner Light and
      Inner Sound of God. These are
      the twin aspects of Spirit each
      of us, as Soul, are innately connected
      to, know it or not. There is an
      inner guide/teacher who works
      with us on the outer, via books,
      seminars, etc., as well as individually
      on the inner via dreams and
      conscious Soul Travel experiences.

      You explore your past lives and
      the karmic situations you've created,
      learning how to resolve past debts
      and live in harmony with Spirit,
      thus creating no new karma. Zero
      karma means you graduate from
      reincarnations to existing in the
      true (karmaless) spiritual realms.

      As Soul, you are already "hard-wired"
      to do this; explore your spiritual
      realms and how all that relates
      directly to you this lifetime.

      Apparently God doesn't want us
      to remain unknowing and "in the
      dark" forever.

      It's true, it's exciting, and it works.
      Truly Amazing."

      ME: I wonder why he didn't mention
      the "inner guide/teacher" by name
      or title like Klemp or Mahanta? Is he
      embarrassed or simply being intentionally
      evasive and vague?

      BTW- In Eckankar, the "true (karmaless)
      spiritual realms" are found after the 5th
      initiation on the 5th Plane. But, initiations
      are delved out and controlled, now, by
      Klemp's guidelines via the RESA police.
      The standard time to receive a 5th is 15
      years for professionals and 18 plus years
      for average ECKists!

      Prometheus
    • Austin Atma
      It s a bogus system... Initiations. If a person is going to buy into the guru system then this type of initiatory process is at the high bogus end. Right
      Message 2 of 10 , Oct 21, 2011

        It's a bogus system... Initiations.

        If a person is going to buy into the guru system then this type of initiatory process is at the "high" bogus end.  Right next to "load o' crap."  

        How can you figure out the prison guards system of giving out favors to the inmates/prisoners to keep them distracted and happy.  Such an effective system of power.

        On Oct 20, 2011, at 10:48 AM, "dianastanley43" <dianastanley43@...> wrote:

         

        When I was in Eck we got an intiation every two years. that was in 71
        Diana

        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, etznab@... wrote:
        >
        > I've been in Eckankar almost 25 years. My membership has never lapsed.
        > My last outer initiation (2000) was the 4th. I don't know if this is
        > normal, or the exception.
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
        > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
        > <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Wed, Oct 19, 2011 9:36 pm
        > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Why Don't ECKists Mention
        > Initiation Wait Time?
        >
        >  
        > Here're some comments from
        > a H.I. who joined in 1972. I don't
        > know if he copied it from a brochure
        > or if it's his own original words...
        > you decide:
        >
        > "Eckankar: An individual's spiritual
        > path emphasizing Soul's own
        > natural and direct inner connections
        > to the twin aspects of Holy Spirit
        > (aka the Eck), the Inner Light and
        > Inner Sound of God. These are
        > the twin aspects of Spirit each
        > of us, as Soul, are innately connected
        > to, know it or not. There is an
        > inner guide/teacher who works
        > with us on the outer, via books,
        > seminars, etc., as well as individually
        > on the inner via dreams and
        > conscious Soul Travel experiences.
        >
        > You explore your past lives and
        > the karmic situations you've created,
        > learning how to resolve past debts
        > and live in harmony with Spirit,
        > thus creating no new karma. Zero
        > karma means you graduate from
        > reincarnations to existing in the
        > true (karmaless) spiritual realms.
        >
        > As Soul, you are already "hard-wired"
        > to do this; explore your spiritual
        > realms and how all that relates
        > directly to you this lifetime.
        >
        > Apparently God doesn't want us
        > to remain unknowing and "in the
        > dark" forever.
        >
        > It's true, it's exciting, and it works.
        > Truly Amazing."
        >
        > ME: I wonder why he didn't mention
        > the "inner guide/teacher" by name
        > or title like Klemp or Mahanta? Is he
        > embarrassed or simply being intentionally
        > evasive and vague?
        >
        > BTW- In Eckankar, the "true (karmaless)
        > spiritual realms" are found after the 5th
        > initiation on the 5th Plane. But, initiations
        > are delved out and controlled, now, by
        > Klemp's guidelines via the RESA police.
        > The standard time to receive a 5th is 15
        > years for professionals and 18 plus years
        > for average ECKists!
        >
        > Prometheus
        >

      • Diana Stanley
        we did have to keep up our membership fees to get initiations or go to seminars. It seems to me it was around $20 a year or maybe not! Diana
        Message 3 of 10 , Oct 26, 2011
          we did have to keep up our membership fees to get initiations or go to seminars. It seems to me it was around $20 a year or maybe not!
          Diana

















          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Austin Atma <austinatma@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > It's a bogus system... Initiations.
          >
          > If a person is going to buy into the guru system then this type of initiatory process is at the "high" bogus end. Right next to "load o' crap."
          >
          > How can you figure out the prison guards system of giving out favors to the inmates/prisoners to keep them distracted and happy. Such an effective system of power.
          >
          > On Oct 20, 2011, at 10:48 AM, "dianastanley43" <dianastanley43@...> wrote:
          >
          > > When I was in Eck we got an intiation every two years. that was in 71
          > > Diana
          > >
          > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, etznab@ wrote:
          > > >
          > > > I've been in Eckankar almost 25 years. My membership has never lapsed.
          > > > My last outer initiation (2000) was the 4th. I don't know if this is
          > > > normal, or the exception.
          > > >
          > > > -----Original Message-----
          > > > From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@>
          > > > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
          > > > <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
          > > > Sent: Wed, Oct 19, 2011 9:36 pm
          > > > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Why Don't ECKists Mention
          > > > Initiation Wait Time?
          > > >
          > > > Â
          > > > Here're some comments from
          > > > a H.I. who joined in 1972. I don't
          > > > know if he copied it from a brochure
          > > > or if it's his own original words...
          > > > you decide:
          > > >
          > > > "Eckankar: An individual's spiritual
          > > > path emphasizing Soul's own
          > > > natural and direct inner connections
          > > > to the twin aspects of Holy Spirit
          > > > (aka the Eck), the Inner Light and
          > > > Inner Sound of God. These are
          > > > the twin aspects of Spirit each
          > > > of us, as Soul, are innately connected
          > > > to, know it or not. There is an
          > > > inner guide/teacher who works
          > > > with us on the outer, via books,
          > > > seminars, etc., as well as individually
          > > > on the inner via dreams and
          > > > conscious Soul Travel experiences.
          > > >
          > > > You explore your past lives and
          > > > the karmic situations you've created,
          > > > learning how to resolve past debts
          > > > and live in harmony with Spirit,
          > > > thus creating no new karma. Zero
          > > > karma means you graduate from
          > > > reincarnations to existing in the
          > > > true (karmaless) spiritual realms.
          > > >
          > > > As Soul, you are already "hard-wired"
          > > > to do this; explore your spiritual
          > > > realms and how all that relates
          > > > directly to you this lifetime.
          > > >
          > > > Apparently God doesn't want us
          > > > to remain unknowing and "in the
          > > > dark" forever.
          > > >
          > > > It's true, it's exciting, and it works.
          > > > Truly Amazing."
          > > >
          > > > ME: I wonder why he didn't mention
          > > > the "inner guide/teacher" by name
          > > > or title like Klemp or Mahanta? Is he
          > > > embarrassed or simply being intentionally
          > > > evasive and vague?
          > > >
          > > > BTW- In Eckankar, the "true (karmaless)
          > > > spiritual realms" are found after the 5th
          > > > initiation on the 5th Plane. But, initiations
          > > > are delved out and controlled, now, by
          > > > Klemp's guidelines via the RESA police.
          > > > The standard time to receive a 5th is 15
          > > > years for professionals and 18 plus years
          > > > for average ECKists!
          > > >
          > > > Prometheus
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          >
        • etznab@aol.com
          $20? It costs more than that to listen to a single WWS talk online. ... From: Diana Stanley To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
          Message 4 of 10 , Oct 26, 2011
            $20? It costs more than that to listen to a single WWS talk online.

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Diana Stanley <dianastanley43@...>
            To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
            <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wed, Oct 26, 2011 7:43 pm
            Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Why Don't ECKists Mention
            Initiation Wait Time?

             
            we did have to keep up our membership fees to get initiations or go to
            seminars. It seems to me it was around $20 a year or maybe not!
            Diana

            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Austin Atma
            <austinatma@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > It's a bogus system... Initiations.
            >
            > If a person is going to buy into the guru system then this type of
            initiatory process is at the "high" bogus end. Right next to "load o'
            crap."
            >
            > How can you figure out the prison guards system of giving out
            favors to the inmates/prisoners to keep them distracted and happy.
            Such an effective system of power.
            >
            > On Oct 20, 2011, at 10:48 AM, "dianastanley43"
            <dianastanley43@...> wrote:
            >
            > > When I was in Eck we got an intiation every two years. that
            was in 71
            > > Diana
            > >
            > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, etznab@
            wrote:
            > > >
            > > > I've been in Eckankar almost 25 years. My membership has
            never lapsed.
            > > > My last outer initiation (2000) was the 4th. I don't
            know if this is
            > > > normal, or the exception.
            > > >
            > > > -----Original Message-----
            > > > From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@>
            > > > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
            > > > <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
            > > > Sent: Wed, Oct 19, 2011 9:36 pm
            > > > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Why Don't ECKists
            Mention
            > > > Initiation Wait Time?
            > > >
            > > > Â
            > > > Here're some comments from
            > > > a H.I. who joined in 1972. I don't
            > > > know if he copied it from a brochure
            > > > or if it's his own original words...
            > > > you decide:
            > > >
            > > > "Eckankar: An individual's spiritual
            > > > path emphasizing Soul's own
            > > > natural and direct inner connections
            > > > to the twin aspects of Holy Spirit
            > > > (aka the Eck), the Inner Light and
            > > > Inner Sound of God. These are
            > > > the twin aspects of Spirit each
            > > > of us, as Soul, are innately connected
            > > > to, know it or not. There is an
            > > > inner guide/teacher who works
            > > > with us on the outer, via books,
            > > > seminars, etc., as well as individually
            > > > on the inner via dreams and
            > > > conscious Soul Travel experiences.
            > > >
            > > > You explore your past lives and
            > > > the karmic situations you've created,
            > > > learning how to resolve past debts
            > > > and live in harmony with Spirit,
            > > > thus creating no new karma. Zero
            > > > karma means you graduate from
            > > > reincarnations to existing in the
            > > > true (karmaless) spiritual realms.
            > > >
            > > > As Soul, you are already "hard-wired"
            > > > to do this; explore your spiritual
            > > > realms and how all that relates
            > > > directly to you this lifetime.
            > > >
            > > > Apparently God doesn't want us
            > > > to remain unknowing and "in the
            > > > dark" forever.
            > > >
            > > > It's true, it's exciting, and it works.
            > > > Truly Amazing."
            > > >
            > > > ME: I wonder why he didn't mention
            > > > the "inner guide/teacher" by name
            > > > or title like Klemp or Mahanta? Is he
            > > > embarrassed or simply being intentionally
            > > > evasive and vague?
            > > >
            > > > BTW- In Eckankar, the "true (karmaless)
            > > > spiritual realms" are found after the 5th
            > > > initiation on the 5th Plane. But, initiations
            > > > are delved out and controlled, now, by
            > > > Klemp's guidelines via the RESA police.
            > > > The standard time to receive a 5th is 15
            > > > years for professionals and 18 plus years
            > > > for average ECKists!
            > > >
            > > > Prometheus
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            >
          • Austin Atma
            Time for #occupytempleofbs. ;-) ... Time for #occupytempleofbs. ;-) On Oct 26, 2011, at 9:46 PM, etznab@aol.com wrote: $20? It costs more than that to listen
            Message 5 of 10 , Oct 26, 2011
              Time for #occupytempleofbs. ;-)

              On Oct 26, 2011, at 9:46 PM, etznab@... wrote:

               

              $20? It costs more than that to listen to a single WWS talk online.

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Diana Stanley <dianastanley43@...>
              To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
              <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Wed, Oct 26, 2011 7:43 pm
              Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Why Don't ECKists Mention
              Initiation Wait Time?

               
              we did have to keep up our membership fees to get initiations or go to
              seminars. It seems to me it was around $20 a year or maybe not!
              Diana

              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Austin Atma
              &lt;austinatma@...&gt; wrote:
              &gt;
              &gt;
              &gt; It's a bogus system... Initiations.
              &gt;
              &gt; If a person is going to buy into the guru system then this type of
              initiatory process is at the "high" bogus end. Right next to "load o'
              crap."
              &gt;
              &gt; How can you figure out the prison guards system of giving out
              favors to the inmates/prisoners to keep them distracted and happy.
              Such an effective system of power.
              &gt;
              &gt; On Oct 20, 2011, at 10:48 AM, "dianastanley43"
              &lt;dianastanley43@...&gt; wrote:
              &gt;
              &gt; &gt; When I was in Eck we got an intiation every two years. that
              was in 71
              &gt; &gt; Diana
              &gt; &gt;
              &gt; &gt; --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, etznab@
              wrote:
              &gt; &gt; &gt;
              &gt; &gt; &gt; I've been in Eckankar almost 25 years. My membership has
              never lapsed.
              &gt; &gt; &gt; My last outer initiation (2000) was the 4th. I don't
              know if this is
              &gt; &gt; &gt; normal, or the exception.
              &gt; &gt; &gt;
              &gt; &gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----
              &gt; &gt; &gt; From: prometheus_973 &lt;prometheus_973@&gt;
              &gt; &gt; &gt; To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
              &gt; &gt; &gt; &lt;EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com&gt;
              &gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: Wed, Oct 19, 2011 9:36 pm
              &gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Why Don't ECKists
              Mention
              &gt; &gt; &gt; Initiation Wait Time?
              &gt; &gt; &gt;
              &gt; &gt; &gt; Â
              &gt; &gt; &gt; Here're some comments from
              &gt; &gt; &gt; a H.I. who joined in 1972. I don't
              &gt; &gt; &gt; know if he copied it from a brochure
              &gt; &gt; &gt; or if it's his own original words...
              &gt; &gt; &gt; you decide:
              &gt; &gt; &gt;
              &gt; &gt; &gt; "Eckankar: An individual's spiritual
              &gt; &gt; &gt; path emphasizing Soul's own
              &gt; &gt; &gt; natural and direct inner connections
              &gt; &gt; &gt; to the twin aspects of Holy Spirit
              &gt; &gt; &gt; (aka the Eck), the Inner Light and
              &gt; &gt; &gt; Inner Sound of God. These are
              &gt; &gt; &gt; the twin aspects of Spirit each
              &gt; &gt; &gt; of us, as Soul, are innately connected
              &gt; &gt; &gt; to, know it or not. There is an
              &gt; &gt; &gt; inner guide/teacher who works
              &gt; &gt; &gt; with us on the outer, via books,
              &gt; &gt; &gt; seminars, etc., as well as individually
              &gt; &gt; &gt; on the inner via dreams and
              &gt; &gt; &gt; conscious Soul Travel experiences.
              &gt; &gt; &gt;
              &gt; &gt; &gt; You explore your past lives and
              &gt; &gt; &gt; the karmic situations you've created,
              &gt; &gt; &gt; learning how to resolve past debts
              &gt; &gt; &gt; and live in harmony with Spirit,
              &gt; &gt; &gt; thus creating no new karma. Zero
              &gt; &gt; &gt; karma means you graduate from
              &gt; &gt; &gt; reincarnations to existing in the
              &gt; &gt; &gt; true (karmaless) spiritual realms.
              &gt; &gt; &gt;
              &gt; &gt; &gt; As Soul, you are already "hard-wired"
              &gt; &gt; &gt; to do this; explore your spiritual
              &gt; &gt; &gt; realms and how all that relates
              &gt; &gt; &gt; directly to you this lifetime.
              &gt; &gt; &gt;
              &gt; &gt; &gt; Apparently God doesn't want us
              &gt; &gt; &gt; to remain unknowing and "in the
              &gt; &gt; &gt; dark" forever.
              &gt; &gt; &gt;
              &gt; &gt; &gt; It's true, it's exciting, and it works.
              &gt; &gt; &gt; Truly Amazing."
              &gt; &gt; &gt;
              &gt; &gt; &gt; ME: I wonder why he didn't mention
              &gt; &gt; &gt; the "inner guide/teacher" by name
              &gt; &gt; &gt; or title like Klemp or Mahanta? Is he
              &gt; &gt; &gt; embarrassed or simply being intentionally
              &gt; &gt; &gt; evasive and vague?
              &gt; &gt; &gt;
              &gt; &gt; &gt; BTW- In Eckankar, the "true (karmaless)
              &gt; &gt; &gt; spiritual realms" are found after the 5th
              &gt; &gt; &gt; initiation on the 5th Plane. But, initiations
              &gt; &gt; &gt; are delved out and controlled, now, by
              &gt; &gt; &gt; Klemp's guidelines via the RESA police.
              &gt; &gt; &gt; The standard time to receive a 5th is 15
              &gt; &gt; &gt; years for professionals and 18 plus years
              &gt; &gt; &gt; for average ECKists!
              &gt; &gt; &gt;
              &gt; &gt; &gt; Prometheus
              &gt; &gt; &gt;
              &gt; &gt;
              &gt; &gt;
              &gt;

            • Diana Stanley
              A 20$ of scotch would have been more heapful!!!! Diana
              Message 6 of 10 , Oct 27, 2011
                A 20$ of scotch would have been more heapful!!!!
                Diana

                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, etznab@... wrote:
                >
                > $20? It costs more than that to listen to a single WWS talk online.
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Diana Stanley <dianastanley43@...>
                > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
                > <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
                > Sent: Wed, Oct 26, 2011 7:43 pm
                > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Why Don't ECKists Mention
                > Initiation Wait Time?
                >
                >  
                > we did have to keep up our membership fees to get initiations or go to
                > seminars. It seems to me it was around $20 a year or maybe not!
                > Diana
                >
                > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Austin Atma
                > austinatma@ wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > > It's a bogus system... Initiations.
                > >
                > > If a person is going to buy into the guru system then this type of
                > initiatory process is at the "high" bogus end. Right next to "load o'
                > crap."
                > >
                > > How can you figure out the prison guards system of giving out
                > favors to the inmates/prisoners to keep them distracted and happy.
                > Such an effective system of power.
                > >
                > > On Oct 20, 2011, at 10:48 AM, "dianastanley43"
                > dianastanley43@ wrote:
                > >
                > > > When I was in Eck we got an intiation every two years. that
                > was in 71
                > > > Diana
                > > >
                > > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, etznab@
                > wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > I've been in Eckankar almost 25 years. My membership has
                > never lapsed.
                > > > > My last outer initiation (2000) was the 4th. I don't
                > know if this is
                > > > > normal, or the exception.
                > > > >
                > > > > -----Original Message-----
                > > > > From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@>
                > > > > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
                > > > > EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                > > > > Sent: Wed, Oct 19, 2011 9:36 pm
                > > > > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Why Don't ECKists
                > Mention
                > > > > Initiation Wait Time?
                > > > >
                > > > > Â
                > > > > Here're some comments from
                > > > > a H.I. who joined in 1972. I don't
                > > > > know if he copied it from a brochure
                > > > > or if it's his own original words...
                > > > > you decide:
                > > > >
                > > > > "Eckankar: An individual's spiritual
                > > > > path emphasizing Soul's own
                > > > > natural and direct inner connections
                > > > > to the twin aspects of Holy Spirit
                > > > > (aka the Eck), the Inner Light and
                > > > > Inner Sound of God. These are
                > > > > the twin aspects of Spirit each
                > > > > of us, as Soul, are innately connected
                > > > > to, know it or not. There is an
                > > > > inner guide/teacher who works
                > > > > with us on the outer, via books,
                > > > > seminars, etc., as well as individually
                > > > > on the inner via dreams and
                > > > > conscious Soul Travel experiences.
                > > > >
                > > > > You explore your past lives and
                > > > > the karmic situations you've created,
                > > > > learning how to resolve past debts
                > > > > and live in harmony with Spirit,
                > > > > thus creating no new karma. Zero
                > > > > karma means you graduate from
                > > > > reincarnations to existing in the
                > > > > true (karmaless) spiritual realms.
                > > > >
                > > > > As Soul, you are already "hard-wired"
                > > > > to do this; explore your spiritual
                > > > > realms and how all that relates
                > > > > directly to you this lifetime.
                > > > >
                > > > > Apparently God doesn't want us
                > > > > to remain unknowing and "in the
                > > > > dark" forever.
                > > > >
                > > > > It's true, it's exciting, and it works.
                > > > > Truly Amazing."
                > > > >
                > > > > ME: I wonder why he didn't mention
                > > > > the "inner guide/teacher" by name
                > > > > or title like Klemp or Mahanta? Is he
                > > > > embarrassed or simply being intentionally
                > > > > evasive and vague?
                > > > >
                > > > > BTW- In Eckankar, the "true (karmaless)
                > > > > spiritual realms" are found after the 5th
                > > > > initiation on the 5th Plane. But, initiations
                > > > > are delved out and controlled, now, by
                > > > > Klemp's guidelines via the RESA police.
                > > > > The standard time to receive a 5th is 15
                > > > > years for professionals and 18 plus years
                > > > > for average ECKists!
                > > > >
                > > > > Prometheus
                > > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                >
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