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Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Eckankar's God is not "God"

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  • etznab@aol.com
    Anami means nameless , I believe. The Eckankar Dictionary & Lexicon mention a number of Purushas. Sat Purusha, Alakh Purusha, Alaya Purusha, Hukikat Purusha,
    Message 1 of 9 , Oct 1, 2011
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      Anami means "nameless", I believe.

      The Eckankar Dictionary & Lexicon mention a number of Purushas. Sat
      Purusha, Alakh Purusha, Alaya Purusha, Hukikat Purusha, Agam Purusha &
      Anami Purusha (Not sure if Anami Purusha is mentioned in early Eckankar
      Dictionary.)

      Alternate spellings for Purusha include Purakh, Purakhu, Purukh and
      Purukutsa. Alternate spellings for Prakriti include Prakrta.

      Purakh appears in Guru Nanak's Mool Mantra, 1st line (I've seen it
      spelled Purukh too).

      http://www.sikhnet.com/oldsikhnet/sggs/translation/0001.html

      On one site Purakh = soul.

      http://www.heavenlygardens.org/japjie/japjip0.htm





      -----Original Message-----
      From: Tyson <abunjoroge@...>
      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
      <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sat, Oct 1, 2011 12:57 pm
      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Eckankar's God is not "God"

       


      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
      <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hello All,
      > FYI: When Harold Klemp
      > or any member of the
      > Eckankar cult mentions
      > "God" it is not the same
      > God others worship. This
      > is a misdirection... a lie!
      >
      > According to Eckankar's
      > Holy Book, The Shariyat-
      > Ki-Sugmad, and Klemp's
      > "Autobiography of a Modern
      > Prophet" (pg.385) the God
      > that all other religions
      > worship is Satan, i.e. the
      > Devil, KAL. Thus, the "God"
      > of Jews, Muslims, Christians,
      > etc. is a limited God and is
      > on a lower plane of consciousness
      > than any and all ECK Higher
      > Initiates!
      >
      > Yes, EK High Initiates, according
      > to Eckankar's religious dogma
      > and according to their spiritual
      > leader and LEM/Mahanta, Harold
      > Klemp, have a "Higher" consciousness
      > than the God that others (non-Eckists)
      > worship and pray to!
      >
      > "God" i.e. Allah et al. is merely
      > a 4th Mental Plane deity (Satan)
      > while Klemp is a 14th Plane God.
      > However, Eckankar's true God,
      > SUGMAD, is even a few rungs
      > higher than Klemp, the Mahanta.
      >
      > So, when Klemp or his missionaries
      > use the word "God" it's not what
      > they mean. They are really referring
      > to SUGMAD, unless, they might be
      > thinking of how stupid people are
      > to think they are referring to the
      > same God they believe in versus
      > SUGMAD. To the foolish Eckists,
      > the foolish public might as well
      > be praying to EK Higher Initiates!
      >
      > For some reason Klemp, the
      > highest consciousness on earth,
      > thinks that it's okay to deceive
      > people with his "common language"
      > excuse/approach/rationalization,
      > where SUGMAD becomes "God."
      > And, of course, ECKists have bought
      > into this deception because they
      > don't dare question the methods
      > of the 14th Plane Mahanta!
      >
      > And so it goes on and on with
      > more and more deception when
      > ever "God" is mentioned by an
      > ECKist or by Klemp. One would
      > think that the Truth would be
      > important to people who claim
      > to be so "spiritually" evolved/
      > advanced as Eckists believe they
      > are!
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      Harold and paul also claim that sugmad is beyond duality and that the
      universal mind(kal) is the negative pole of creation. Yet paul also
      uses the hindu name Anami Purusha as a manifestation of sugmad. I think
      it means inconcievable or unknowable purusha. The name purusha is
      actually a God that sometimes referes to the universe itself for the
      universe is the body of purusha. purusha is also considered to be
      represented as male thus I see duality in this. Prakita is the divine
      mother(matter) purusha is the divine father(spirit) when the two come
      together spirit enters matter(lila) thus the divine dance of creation
      begins. I dont think eckists would like to know that there name purusha
      came from what I consider a beautiful Hindu myth and they owe there
      creation to hinduism not the other way around.
    • etznab@aol.com
      This will tell the story. Page search for Anami here. http://www.mirrorh.com/potmnots.html And then here. http://www.mirrorh.com/tfctfc.html Notice how similar
      Message 2 of 9 , Oct 1, 2011
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        This will tell the story. Page search for Anami here.

        http://www.mirrorh.com/potmnots.html

        And then here.

        http://www.mirrorh.com/tfctfc.html

        Notice how similar are Paul Twitchell and Julian Johnson's quotes.





        -----Original Message-----
        From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
        To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
        <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Sat, Oct 1, 2011 6:13 pm
        Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Eckankar's God is not "God"

         
        Hello Tyson and All,
        I don't even know what
        duality or beyond duality
        means when coming from
        scamming religionists.
        These people talk out of
        both sides of their mouth.
        They say what sounds "spiritual"
        or seems "profound" or
        logical because they claim
        to be enlightened authorities.
        But, they are hypocrites
        who love to twist and turn
        words to fit their greedy,
        self-serving, ego driven,
        power mongering agendas!

        The "Divine" might not even
        care about positive and negative
        traits, atoms, agendas, sex etc.

        Let's face one fact... mankind
        created and defined "God" in
        his own (man's) image. This
        Hindu stuff is just another
        view and explanation of
        cosmology like that from the
        Quran, Old Testament or of
        the Greek and Roman Gods,
        etc.

        As far as Anami goes, PT claims
        that the Anami Lok is where
        Sugmad resides and, yet, the
        Anami Lok is the 10th Plane.

        Therefore, SUGMAD resides
        on the 10th and Klemp (the
        Mahanta) on the 14th. I guess
        that makes Klemp Higher than
        Sugmad! So, why doesn't HE,
        HK, want to be worshipped?
        I guess little Harry is a humble
        God... right? I love it when he
        has a chela mention his humility.
        Humble people never have to
        bring up that word... it's a
        given that others simply "know."
        Therfore, Klemp (by printing
        these comments about his
        "humility") isn't!

        Yes, Twitchell used Hinduism,
        Sikhism, Christianity and theosophy
        etc. to create a hodge-podge New
        Age religion just as distorted, if
        not more so, as his sources.

        There is a lot of Sikhism (and
        Sikhism has Hindu roots) via
        Ruhani Satsang and Radasoami
        and "The Path of the Masters"
        in Eckankar. This book, more
        than any other, was Twitchell's
        blueprint for creating Eckankar.

        Remember, too, Twitchell
        followed Kirpal Singh, of Ruhani
        Satsang, for ten years, and
        Kirpal had PT's Tiger's Fang
        manuscript until he returned
        it in 1966. The Rebazar character
        took the place of Kirpal after
        he and Twitchell had a falling
        out due to Paul's embellishments.
        Paul thought it'd be okay to
        portray himself with special
        spiritual powers and consciousness
        as long as Kirpal was given
        even greater powers. But,
        Kirpal didn't buy into it. He
        saw through Twitchell scam
        and knew he had ulterior motives.

        Prometheus

        Tyson wrote:
        Harold and paul also claim
        that sugmad is beyond duality
        and that the universal mind
        (kal) is the negative pole of
        creation.

        Yet paul also uses the hindu
        name Anami Purusha as a
        manifestation of sugmad.

        I think it means inconcievable
        or unknowable purusha.
        The name purusha is actually
        a God that sometimes refers
        to the universe itself for the
        universe is the body of purusha.

        purusha is also considered
        to be represented as male
        thus I see duality in this.

        Prakita is the divine mother
        (matter) purusha is the divine
        father (spirit) when the two
        come together spirit enters
        matter (lila) thus the divine
        dance of creation begins.
        I dont think eckists would
        like to know that there name
        purusha came from what
        I consider a beautiful Hindu
        myth and they owe there
        creation to hinduism not
        the other way around.

        Prometheus wrote:
        Hello All,
        > FYI: When Harold Klemp
        > or any member of the
        > Eckankar cult mentions
        > "God" it is not the same
        > God others worship. This
        > is a misdirection... a lie!
        >
        > According to Eckankar's
        > Holy Book, The Shariyat-
        > Ki-Sugmad, and Klemp's
        > "Autobiography of a Modern
        > Prophet" (pg.385) the God
        > that all other religions
        > worship is Satan, i.e. the
        > Devil, KAL. Thus, the "God"
        > of Jews, Muslims, Christians,
        > etc. is a limited God and is
        > on a lower plane of consciousness
        > than any and all ECK Higher
        > Initiates!
        >
        > Yes, EK High Initiates, according
        > to Eckankar's religious dogma
        > and according to their spiritual
        > leader and LEM/Mahanta, Harold
        > Klemp, have a "Higher" consciousness
        > than the God that others (non-Eckists)
        > worship and pray to!
        >
        > "God" i.e. Allah et al. is merely
        > a 4th Mental Plane deity (Satan)
        > while Klemp is a 14th Plane God.
        > However, Eckankar's true God,
        > SUGMAD, is even a few rungs
        > higher than Klemp, the Mahanta.
        >
        > So, when Klemp or his missionaries
        > use the word "God" it's not what
        > they mean. They are really referring
        > to SUGMAD, unless, they might be
        > thinking of how stupid people are
        > to think they are referring to the
        > same God they believe in versus
        > SUGMAD. To the foolish Eckists,
        > the foolish public might as well
        > be praying to EK Higher Initiates!
        >
        > For some reason Klemp, the
        > highest consciousness on earth,
        > thinks that it's okay to deceive
        > people with his "common language"
        > excuse/approach/rationalization,
        > where SUGMAD becomes "God."
        > And, of course, ECKists have bought
        > into this deception because they
        > don't dare question the methods
        > of the 14th Plane Mahanta!
        >
        > And so it goes on and on with
        > more and more deception when
        > ever "God" is mentioned by an
        > ECKist or by Klemp. One would
        > think that the Truth would be
        > important to people who claim
        > to be so "spiritually" evolved/
        > advanced as Eckists believe they
        > are!
        >
        > Prometheus
      • prometheus_973
        Hello Etznab, No, I don t think Anami Purusha was in PT s Eckankar Dictionary. IMO, it was added, by Klemp, to his 1998 Lexicon. However, in this case, it
        Message 3 of 9 , Oct 2, 2011
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          Hello Etznab,
          No, I don't think Anami Purusha
          was in PT's Eckankar Dictionary.
          IMO, it was added, by Klemp, to
          his 1998 Lexicon.

          However, in this case, it appears
          that Klemp was merely tweaking
          the EK Dogma that Twit, and/or
          DG, had overlooked.


          In the Shariyat Book One, Chapter
          Five, Anami Purusha is:

          "The first focus of action was the
          ruler of the Anami Plane, named
          Anami Purusha."


          But, it seems strange that SUGMAD
          created the Anami Lok where Anami
          Purusha rules and, yet, the Sugmad
          (according to Klemp) resides on
          this same lower 10th Plane. Now,
          why would the great SUGMAD reside
          on the 10th Plane with Anami Purusha
          (a lesser creation) when the Mahanta
          (Klemp) is residing on the 14th Plane?

          BTW- Which Plane does the Mahanta
          Rule?

          Anyway, here's the definition for
          ANAMI LOK from Klemp's first ECK
          Lexicon:

          "That plane where SOULS are
          reproduced by the Lord of Lords
          reacting upon Itself; the world
          of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad;
          the mighty center of the universes,
          the very heart and core of all life
          and existence. The sound here
          is of the whirlpool, and the word
          is HU; the TENTH Plane; the
          Nameless Plane."

          Interesting that most ECKists
          have never noticed or questioned
          this disparity. It seems this
          info was extracted from Hindu
          or Sant Mat sources early on,
          by PT, and was never tweaked
          to fit in with his new but ever
          changing EK dogma/scam,
          especially, after creating the
          14th Plane "Mahanta" in 1969.

          Either this was overlooked or it
          was seen as a minor issue that
          could always have a fabricated
          ekplanation, if need be, on down
          the road.

          Prometheus


          etznab@... wrote:
          >
          > Anami means "nameless", I believe.
          >
          > The Eckankar Dictionary & Lexicon mention a number of Purushas. Sat
          > Purusha, Alakh Purusha, Alaya Purusha, Hukikat Purusha, Agam Purusha &
          > Anami Purusha (Not sure if Anami Purusha is mentioned in early Eckankar
          > Dictionary.)
          >
          > Alternate spellings for Purusha include Purakh, Purakhu, Purukh and
          > Purukutsa. Alternate spellings for Prakriti include Prakrta.
          >
          > Purakh appears in Guru Nanak's Mool Mantra, 1st line (I've seen it
          > spelled Purukh too).
          >
          > http://www.sikhnet.com/oldsikhnet/sggs/translation/0001.html
          >
          > On one site Purakh = soul.
          >
          > http://www.heavenlygardens.org/japjie/japjip0.htm
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Tyson <abunjoroge@...>
          > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
          > <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Sat, Oct 1, 2011 12:57 pm
          > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Eckankar's God is not "God"
          >
          >  
          >
          >
          > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
          > prometheus_973@ wrote:
          > >
          > > Hello All,
          > > FYI: When Harold Klemp
          > > or any member of the
          > > Eckankar cult mentions
          > > "God" it is not the same
          > > God others worship. This
          > > is a misdirection... a lie!
          > >
          > > According to Eckankar's
          > > Holy Book, The Shariyat-
          > > Ki-Sugmad, and Klemp's
          > > "Autobiography of a Modern
          > > Prophet" (pg.385) the God
          > > that all other religions
          > > worship is Satan, i.e. the
          > > Devil, KAL. Thus, the "God"
          > > of Jews, Muslims, Christians,
          > > etc. is a limited God and is
          > > on a lower plane of consciousness
          > > than any and all ECK Higher
          > > Initiates!
          > >
          > > Yes, EK High Initiates, according
          > > to Eckankar's religious dogma
          > > and according to their spiritual
          > > leader and LEM/Mahanta, Harold
          > > Klemp, have a "Higher" consciousness
          > > than the God that others (non-Eckists)
          > > worship and pray to!
          > >
          > > "God" i.e. Allah et al. is merely
          > > a 4th Mental Plane deity (Satan)
          > > while Klemp is a 14th Plane God.
          > > However, Eckankar's true God,
          > > SUGMAD, is even a few rungs
          > > higher than Klemp, the Mahanta.
          > >
          > > So, when Klemp or his missionaries
          > > use the word "God" it's not what
          > > they mean. They are really referring
          > > to SUGMAD, unless, they might be
          > > thinking of how stupid people are
          > > to think they are referring to the
          > > same God they believe in versus
          > > SUGMAD. To the foolish Eckists,
          > > the foolish public might as well
          > > be praying to EK Higher Initiates!
          > >
          > > For some reason Klemp, the
          > > highest consciousness on earth,
          > > thinks that it's okay to deceive
          > > people with his "common language"
          > > excuse/approach/rationalization,
          > > where SUGMAD becomes "God."
          > > And, of course, ECKists have bought
          > > into this deception because they
          > > don't dare question the methods
          > > of the 14th Plane Mahanta!
          > >
          > > And so it goes on and on with
          > > more and more deception when
          > > ever "God" is mentioned by an
          > > ECKist or by Klemp. One would
          > > think that the Truth would be
          > > important to people who claim
          > > to be so "spiritually" evolved/
          > > advanced as Eckists believe they
          > > are!
          > >
          > > Prometheus
          > >
          > Harold and paul also claim that sugmad is beyond duality and that the
          > universal mind(kal) is the negative pole of creation. Yet paul also
          > uses the hindu name Anami Purusha as a manifestation of sugmad. I think
          > it means inconcievable or unknowable purusha. The name purusha is
          > actually a God that sometimes referes to the universe itself for the
          > universe is the body of purusha. purusha is also considered to be
          > represented as male thus I see duality in this. Prakita is the divine
          > mother(matter) purusha is the divine father(spirit) when the two come
          > together spirit enters matter(lila) thus the divine dance of creation
          > begins. I dont think eckists would like to know that there name purusha
          > came from what I consider a beautiful Hindu myth and they owe there
          > creation to hinduism not the other way around.
          >
        • etznab18
          Just now reading this message as my Yahoo account (the e-mail from Yahoo groups) has bounced for the um-teenth time this year. When this happens I have to
          Message 4 of 9 , Oct 4, 2011
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            Just now reading this message as my Yahoo account (the e-mail from Yahoo groups) has bounced for the um-teenth time this year. When this happens I have to first unbounce the account and then have to search each Yahoo group to see which messages I missed.

            Thanks for posting the Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad quote.

            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hello Etznab,
            > No, I don't think Anami Purusha
            > was in PT's Eckankar Dictionary.
            > IMO, it was added, by Klemp, to
            > his 1998 Lexicon.
            >
            > However, in this case, it appears
            > that Klemp was merely tweaking
            > the EK Dogma that Twit, and/or
            > DG, had overlooked.
            >
            >
            > In the Shariyat Book One, Chapter
            > Five, Anami Purusha is:
            >
            > "The first focus of action was the
            > ruler of the Anami Plane, named
            > Anami Purusha."
            >
            >
            > But, it seems strange that SUGMAD
            > created the Anami Lok where Anami
            > Purusha rules and, yet, the Sugmad
            > (according to Klemp) resides on
            > this same lower 10th Plane. Now,
            > why would the great SUGMAD reside
            > on the 10th Plane with Anami Purusha
            > (a lesser creation) when the Mahanta
            > (Klemp) is residing on the 14th Plane?
            >
            > BTW- Which Plane does the Mahanta
            > Rule?
            >
            > Anyway, here's the definition for
            > ANAMI LOK from Klemp's first ECK
            > Lexicon:
            >
            > "That plane where SOULS are
            > reproduced by the Lord of Lords
            > reacting upon Itself; the world
            > of the Supreme Being, the Sugmad;
            > the mighty center of the universes,
            > the very heart and core of all life
            > and existence. The sound here
            > is of the whirlpool, and the word
            > is HU; the TENTH Plane; the
            > Nameless Plane."
            >
            > Interesting that most ECKists
            > have never noticed or questioned
            > this disparity. It seems this
            > info was extracted from Hindu
            > or Sant Mat sources early on,
            > by PT, and was never tweaked
            > to fit in with his new but ever
            > changing EK dogma/scam,
            > especially, after creating the
            > 14th Plane "Mahanta" in 1969.
            >
            > Either this was overlooked or it
            > was seen as a minor issue that
            > could always have a fabricated
            > ekplanation, if need be, on down
            > the road.
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            >
            > etznab@ wrote:
            > >
            > > Anami means "nameless", I believe.
            > >
            > > The Eckankar Dictionary & Lexicon mention a number of Purushas. Sat
            > > Purusha, Alakh Purusha, Alaya Purusha, Hukikat Purusha, Agam Purusha &
            > > Anami Purusha (Not sure if Anami Purusha is mentioned in early Eckankar
            > > Dictionary.)
            > >
            > > Alternate spellings for Purusha include Purakh, Purakhu, Purukh and
            > > Purukutsa. Alternate spellings for Prakriti include Prakrta.
            > >
            > > Purakh appears in Guru Nanak's Mool Mantra, 1st line (I've seen it
            > > spelled Purukh too).
            > >
            > > http://www.sikhnet.com/oldsikhnet/sggs/translation/0001.html
            > >
            > > On one site Purakh = soul.
            > >
            > > http://www.heavenlygardens.org/japjie/japjip0.htm
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > -----Original Message-----
            > > From: Tyson <abunjoroge@>
            > > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
            > > <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
            > > Sent: Sat, Oct 1, 2011 12:57 pm
            > > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Eckankar's God is not "God"
            > >
            > >  
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
            > > prometheus_973@ wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Hello All,
            > > > FYI: When Harold Klemp
            > > > or any member of the
            > > > Eckankar cult mentions
            > > > "God" it is not the same
            > > > God others worship. This
            > > > is a misdirection... a lie!
            > > >
            > > > According to Eckankar's
            > > > Holy Book, The Shariyat-
            > > > Ki-Sugmad, and Klemp's
            > > > "Autobiography of a Modern
            > > > Prophet" (pg.385) the God
            > > > that all other religions
            > > > worship is Satan, i.e. the
            > > > Devil, KAL. Thus, the "God"
            > > > of Jews, Muslims, Christians,
            > > > etc. is a limited God and is
            > > > on a lower plane of consciousness
            > > > than any and all ECK Higher
            > > > Initiates!
            > > >
            > > > Yes, EK High Initiates, according
            > > > to Eckankar's religious dogma
            > > > and according to their spiritual
            > > > leader and LEM/Mahanta, Harold
            > > > Klemp, have a "Higher" consciousness
            > > > than the God that others (non-Eckists)
            > > > worship and pray to!
            > > >
            > > > "God" i.e. Allah et al. is merely
            > > > a 4th Mental Plane deity (Satan)
            > > > while Klemp is a 14th Plane God.
            > > > However, Eckankar's true God,
            > > > SUGMAD, is even a few rungs
            > > > higher than Klemp, the Mahanta.
            > > >
            > > > So, when Klemp or his missionaries
            > > > use the word "God" it's not what
            > > > they mean. They are really referring
            > > > to SUGMAD, unless, they might be
            > > > thinking of how stupid people are
            > > > to think they are referring to the
            > > > same God they believe in versus
            > > > SUGMAD. To the foolish Eckists,
            > > > the foolish public might as well
            > > > be praying to EK Higher Initiates!
            > > >
            > > > For some reason Klemp, the
            > > > highest consciousness on earth,
            > > > thinks that it's okay to deceive
            > > > people with his "common language"
            > > > excuse/approach/rationalization,
            > > > where SUGMAD becomes "God."
            > > > And, of course, ECKists have bought
            > > > into this deception because they
            > > > don't dare question the methods
            > > > of the 14th Plane Mahanta!
            > > >
            > > > And so it goes on and on with
            > > > more and more deception when
            > > > ever "God" is mentioned by an
            > > > ECKist or by Klemp. One would
            > > > think that the Truth would be
            > > > important to people who claim
            > > > to be so "spiritually" evolved/
            > > > advanced as Eckists believe they
            > > > are!
            > > >
            > > > Prometheus
            > > >
            > > Harold and paul also claim that sugmad is beyond duality and that the
            > > universal mind(kal) is the negative pole of creation. Yet paul also
            > > uses the hindu name Anami Purusha as a manifestation of sugmad. I think
            > > it means inconcievable or unknowable purusha. The name purusha is
            > > actually a God that sometimes referes to the universe itself for the
            > > universe is the body of purusha. purusha is also considered to be
            > > represented as male thus I see duality in this. Prakita is the divine
            > > mother(matter) purusha is the divine father(spirit) when the two come
            > > together spirit enters matter(lila) thus the divine dance of creation
            > > begins. I dont think eckists would like to know that there name purusha
            > > came from what I consider a beautiful Hindu myth and they owe there
            > > creation to hinduism not the other way around.
            > >
            >
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